Telugu Literary History : Part III
EAS...@purccvm.bitnet
>
>a (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>
>> A Brief History of Telugu Literature---Part III
>
>>
>>A striking contrast in almost every way to Srinatha was his brother-in-law
>and
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>junior contemporary Bommera POtana (1400-75), a niyogi from Ontimitta in
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>-----
>>Taken from History fo South India by Neelakanta Sastry. Typos are mine.
>>Opinions, errors, and mistakes if any are of NA Sastry.
>
>
>But no historic evidence was ever found corraborating the view that SrinAdha
>and pOtana were related, even less contemporaries.
> The current opinion is that the two are separated by about 100 years
>in
>time, and that the popular stories about their interaction
> are just that, stories;
>
>--vijay
>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>`I have read your article, Mr. Johnson, and I am no wiser than when I
>started.' -- `Possibly not, sir, but far better informed.'
A somewhat tangential question. One of Srinatha's works is 'Sringara Naishadham
Is it a part translation of King Harsha's 'Naishadham'? And what does 'Naishadh
am' mean?
Easwar Nyshadham.
P.S: As you see, I have a personal interest in the origin and meaning of this
word.
vpr...@uoft02.utoledo.edu
> (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>
>> A Brief History of Telugu Literature---Part III
>
>>
>>A striking contrast in almost every way to Srinatha was his brother-in-law and
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>junior contemporary Bommera POtana (1400-75), a niyogi from Ontimitta in
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> and pOtana were related, even less contemporaries.
> The current opinion is that the two are separated by about 100 years in
> time, and that the popular stories about their interaction
> are just that, stories;
>
> --vijay
The dates are given in the article itself, Vijay garu! For your
information, I append the relevant parts of the original article at
the end.
SrInAthA lived from 1365 to 1440.
pOtana lived from 1400 to 1475.
They had an age-difference of 35 years to be sure, but that does
make them contemporaries. Not 100 years as you claim. And I heard
the same dates from other sources, and I do not doubt their
veracity. It is quite possible for them to have interacted with each
other. Perhaps the 'stories' as you claim, may have a grain of truth
in them? nippu lEnidE, poga rAjadu kadA!
Remember, in those days, it was quite common to have age differences
between siblings as large as 40 years! And nothing I heard says that
SrInAthA and pOtana's wife dhUtAmba, were children of the same
parents; for all we know, they might be cousins, with a sister and
brother relationship between them, which might stretch the age
difference even more, without affecting their relationship. Why, I
have a cousin (sister) who is 30 years older than I am, this is in
modern times!!!!
Siva Prasad.
>From: nara...@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
>
> A Brief History of Telugu Literature---Part III
>[...]
>The century and a half that followed 1350 may as well be designated as the
>age of Srinaatha (1365-1440), held by some to be the greatest poet in the
>language.
>[...]
>A striking contrast in almost every way to Srinatha was his brother-in-law and
>junior contemporary Bommera POtana (1400-75), a niyogi from Ontimitta in
>Cuddapah district and translator of the Bhaagavata PuraaNa.
>[...]
Ramarao Kanneganti
|> A somewhat tangential question. One of Srinatha's works is 'Sringara Naishadham
|> Is it a part translation of King Harsha's 'Naishadham'? And what does 'Naishadh
|> am' mean?
|>
|> Easwar Nyshadham.
|> P.S: As you see, I have a personal interest in the origin and meaning of this
|> word.
Naishadham -- belonging to Nishidha -- the kingdom of Nala.
It was said about the original "naishadham, vidvathoushadham".
Srinaatha's translation [which is not strictly true to the original,
but more of his substance] is more graceful. The character
delineations are not to be found until the modern era of Viswanadha
Satyanarayana. The breathtaking subtlety is often missed by the
Telugu Pundits, who are hell bent on treating Srinaatha as any other
poet.
But, his crowning achievement is palnaati bhaaratam. It is lucid, easy
flowing, delighful book. Simply put, two thumbs up!!
-- rama
Vijay
>> But no historic evidence was ever found corraborating the view that SrinAdha
>> and pOtana were related, even less contemporaries.
>> The current opinion is that the two are separated by about 100 years in
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> time, and that the popular stories about their interaction
>> are just that, stories;
>>
>> --vijay
> The dates are given in the article itself, Vijay garu! For your
> information, I append the relevant parts of the original article at
> the end.
> SrInAthA lived from 1365 to 1440.
> pOtana lived from 1400 to 1475.
> They had an age-difference of 35 years to be sure, but that does
> make them contemporaries. Not 100 years as you claim. And I heard
> the same dates from other sources, and I do not doubt their
> veracity. It is quite possible for them to have interacted with each
I would like to see the references you offer (no dis-respect intended).
Since we are not historians ourselves, we have to go by what the professionals
say, and draw our own conclusions according to the weight we assign to the
objectivity of the historian in question.
Now that the definition is taken care of, I dont have my refs with me here
in US. But, any one who has access to the classic volume "Andhra Kavula
Charitra" or any other relevent publication from telugu sahitya academy
can look in and clarify the matter.
> other. Perhaps the 'stories' as you claim, may have a grain of truth
> in them? nippu lEnidE, poga rAjadu kadA!
well, I dont subscribe to 'nippu-poga' adage much. Case has to be framed
better than that. The ideas I hold agreement with are-
- that there was not *any* interaction between srinadha and potana.
- they are *not* reletives.
- are separated in time by a wide band;
prioritized in that order. In order to assert the 3rd point, the dates
have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
> Remember, in those days, it was quite common to have age differences
> between siblings as large as 40 years! And nothing I heard says that
> SrInAthA and pOtana's wife dhUtAmba, were children of the same
> parents; for all we know, they might be cousins, with a sister and
> brother relationship between them, which might stretch the age
> difference even more, without affecting their relationship. Why, I
> have a cousin (sister) who is 30 years older than I am, this is in
> modern times!!!!
> Siva Prasad.
All true, only assuming that they were reletives in the first place. I do not
remember how the historians came to the conclusion to the contrary, It was
convincing to me when I read it.
So, all that has to be done is to try corraborating our respective assertions
from the work of objective ( well, as objective as they get) historians.
Unfortunately, I dont have access to any thing to do with telugu literary
history at the moment. So, some kind soul can look up things and let me
know.
Madhavi Kanneganti
>
>Naishadham -- belonging to Nishidha -- the kingdom of Nala.
>It was said about the original "naishadham, vidvathoushadham".
An interesting fact is, veerEsalingam, in his youth, wrote a book
"nirOshTya naishadham". That mean the whole book is without any letters
that are pronounced by touching the two lips together. For example: ma is
an OsTyam. Guess how he wrote damayanti??
>Srinaatha's translation [which is not strictly true to the original,
>but more of his substance] is more graceful. The character
>delineations are not to be found until the modern era of Viswanadha
>Satyanarayana. The breathtaking subtlety is often missed by the
>Telugu Pundits, who are hell bent on treating Srinaatha as any other
>poet.
This takeoff on Telugu pundits is uncalled for. Remember that Mallinatha
Suri, who so ably commented on Kalidasa, is a Telugu. Pity that he didn't
take up Telugu!
>But, his crowning achievement is palnaati bhaaratam. It is lucid, easy
>flowing, delighful book. Simply put, two thumbs up!!
>
>-- rama
And, before writing the same book, he commented that
"rasikudu pOvadu palnaadesaganga
rambahaeina Ekule vaDakun
kusumaastrudaina jonna koodE kuduchun".
He seemed to have changed his mind!!
[Of course, those of us who has spent time in palanaadu can swear that
that poem is not at all true anymore!! Well, may be a bit.]
... Special K
Ramarao Kanneganti
>In article <C6B7r...@rice.edu> ra...@rice.edu (Ramarao Kanneganti) writes:
>>
>>Naishadham -- belonging to Nishidha -- the kingdom of Nala.
>>It was said about the original "naishadham, vidvathoushadham".
>
>An interesting fact is, veerEsalingam, in his youth, wrote a book
>"nirOshTya naishadham". That mean the whole book is without any letters
>that are pronounced by touching the two lips together. For example: ma is
>an OsTyam. Guess how he wrote damayanti??
If I remember correct, he says "dayanti" with "ma" in between, and he
gets "ma" from some gymnastics. It is really horrible. And, of course,
whenever they attempted such unnecessary acrobatics, it is the
literature that suffered. I personally prefer Yaddanapudi to such
insipid writings :-).
>This takeoff on Telugu pundits is uncalled for. Remember that Mallinatha
>Suri, who so ably commented on Kalidasa, is a Telugu. Pity that he didn't
>take up Telugu!
He may be a Telugu, but he was a Sanskrit pundit!!
Besides, the best annotation I ever read is by "Tapi Dharma Rao". And,
he was a math professor!!
>And, before writing the same book, he commented that
>"rasikudu pOvadu palnaadesaganga
>rambahaeina Ekule vaDakun
>kusumaastrudaina jonna koodE kuduchun".
>
>He seemed to have changed his mind!!
>
>[Of course, those of us who has spent time in palanaadu can swear that
>that poem is not at all true anymore!! Well, may be a bit.]
>
>... Special K
Srinadha had even harsher words to say about Palnaadu:
chinna chinna raaLLu
chillara devuLLu,
naagulETi neeLLu naapa raaLLu,
sajja jonna kooLLu,
sarpammulu teLLu,
pallannaTi seema palleTuLlu.
[Before you say that it is uncalled for, that is not my opinion! I
enjoyed my stay for 2 years in Sagar very much!!]
-- rama "kanneganti" :-)
vpr...@uoft02.utoledo.edu
> vpr...@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>> SrInAthA lived from 1365 to 1440.
>> pOtana lived from 1400 to 1475.
>>
>> They had an age-difference of 35 years to be sure, but that does
>> make them contemporaries. Not 100 years as you claim. And I heard
>> the same dates from other sources, and I do not doubt their
>> veracity. It is quite possible for them to have interacted with each
>
> I would like to see the references you offer (no dis-respect intended).
> Since we are not historians ourselves, we have to go by what the professionals
> say, and draw our own conclusions according to the weight we assign to the
> objectivity of the historian in question.
I too do not have any references with me; but I vaguely remember
these dates - "SrInAthuDu padhnAlagava Satabdiki cendinavADu",
"pOtana padunaidava SatAbdiki cendinavADu" - with the above dates,
(or something very close) from the telugu text books of 9th and
10th classes. That was so long ago - 11 years back! Sorry if my
memory is a bit hazy. But I agree with your point above. There
was also an account of how pOtana paid the money owed by SrInAtha
to the vaddera kings and got him released - in the non-detailed
supplement to the 10th class telugu text. That chapter was about
the life of SrInAtha. I put my trust in these sources.
And I agree with your opinion above. Perhaps someone else can
crosscheck these dates provided by Neelakanta Sastry from other
sources.
I still remember some of the sentences from that non-detailed..
"dEsam vaddera rAjula pAlayyenu",
"carama daSa lO kUDA SrInAthuni oudhdhatyam tagga lEdu", etc.
- both these sentences with regard to his last days.
In any case, I would like to see that last poem of his, something
which goes as,
"...................
.....ratnAmabarammulE rAyaDiccu.....
........svargasthudayye vissana mantri...
.......hEma pAtrAnna mevari pankti bhujincu....."
[praising his past benefactors]
and his proud declaration
".............
divija kavivarul gunDiyal Digguranaga
yarugucunnaDu SrInAthu Damarapuriki"
I asked this question on the digest a few months back, but I did
not save the response then. But I think Ramarao Kanneganti
responded to my query then, I may be wrong. This time, I promise
that I would save it and do not bug you again later! ;-) ;-)
Siva Prasad.
PS:
As a digression, I want to share with you one of my childhood
experiences. I was in 10th class then. [This was in 1981-82].
There were 2 non-detailed texts for 10th class at that time.
One has this chapter on SrInAtha, another chapter on dilIpa
and kAmadhEnu - the story of the birth of raghu. That book was
a collection of chapters. The second non-detailed was one big
story about the life of Nehru. [Nehru bAlyam, Nehru yOUvanam,
blah blah... I think whoever recommended that as a curriculum
for 10th grade kids must be sadists ;-) ]
There was this description of Kashmir, the ancestral place of
Nehru, in the first chapter of the second non-detailed text,
in the beautiful prose of the author.
The examinations were all public examinations for 10th class kids.
The papers used to be sent to our schools from the State Board.
Even the quarterly, half-yearly question papers used to come from
the board. The correction for these papers was left to the
school teachers themselves. Only the final examination papers
were graded by external graders.
There was a question in the quarterly examination paper, asking
us to describe about the recent vacation we had. The summer before,
my family and I had been to Nagarjunasagar, and I described in
whatever way I could about that, in answer to that question.
Now, as kids, we used to be very competitive in studies. I used to
top every paper and every examination in my class, to the chagrin
of my classmates! ;-) When the papers were graded and returned by
our Telugu teacher, I was stunned to see that one of the girls in
my class got seven marks higher than me! Our Telugu teacher then
explained to us that, that girl has used the description of
Kashmir which was provided in the non-detailed text, as if she
had been to Kashmir herself! And that, pleased by her imagination,
he had given her ten marks extra! Boy was I jealous!
In the half-yearly examination, since the syllabus was not entirely
covered, our teacher changed one of the questions asking us to
describe a recent vacation we had. Rubbing my hands with glee, I
proceeded to put the description of Kashmir this time in answer
to the question, expecting complements and extra 10 marks.
Returning the answer papers, our teacher said that he cut 2 marks
from my answer paper, saying that the same trick won't succeed
twice! Since there was choice for that particular question, that
girl had answered other question, and again she ended up with 5 or
6 marks higher than me!!!!!
I remember sulking and bitterly thinking that this Bala Subrahmanyam
saar is a very bad guy, he was showing favoritism to the girls etc.
etc... What especially bugged me was that, this girl was a total
dumbo. She was my neighbor, and I overheard her voice mugging the
suutram of trika sandhi in the evening before the examination -
"aa, ee, E lu trikamulu. aa, ee, E lu trikamulu. aa, ee E lu
trikamulu...." ;-)
I had the last laugh though! In the final examination of 10th class,
she had only 62% overall, with 71 in Telugu paper. I had 74%, with
79 in Telugu, and I stood first in my class. [Now you know what
kind of a DabbA school I went to ;-) ;-) ] These were the marks
which would show up on the mark sheet, and not the earlier
half-yearly or quarterly marks, so I was more than pleased! ;-)