Lasting literature and Von Neumann
Kumar Vadaparty
(Note: This mail been longer than intended; if I had more time,
I would have written shorter note (as Pascal once said)).
> Sitaramayya Ari says:
> Should good poetry or literature really last long?
> Can't good literature be short lived?
> Is long-lived literature necessarily good literature?
I have seen similar questions on this net several times.
What is interesting is that these questions
can be examined in the context of almost any creative art you can think of,
mathematics and ComputerScience being the ones I am most familiar with. And
furthermore, these questions HAVE BEEN examined in the context of these
arts, mathematics being the most examined (in my experience/exposure).
I think the solutions/answers
arrived in those quests definitely provide an answer or at least some
framework to our questions here.
In mathematics the questions are "Should good mathematics also be practical?"
which is very similar to Ari's qeustion of "social committment" of poetry. The
spectrum is very wide and the answers very different for different people.
Let me give two extreme viewpoints on mathematics, and two extreme view points
on telugu literature, and then on computer science.
On the whole, I tend to agree with Ari.
I think the best answer was given by Von Neumann, and we can apply his answer
even to Telugu poetry. (you will see).
1. Hardy (of hardy ramanujam fame) wrote a book called "A mathematician's
apology" in which he belabours on how un-necessary it is for mathematics to
be of use. Indeed, he almost makes it as if useful mathematics is rather
ugly (i.e., not aesthetic).
2. Von Neumann takes a somewhat middle road. I am now quoting him (source
William PoundStone's "Prisoner's Dilemma")
"... [ pure mathematics] becomes more and more purely aestheticising,
more and more purely l'art pour l'art. This need not be bad, if the
field is surrounded by correlated subjects, or if the field is
under the influence of men with an exceptionally well-developed taste.
But there is a grave danger that the subject will develop along the
lines of least resistence... the discipline will become a disorganized
mass of ...complexities...
At the beginning the style is usually classical [ with some emperical
source], [but, slowly becomes] baroque and the very high baroque"
I can not think of a better abstract description of the degeneation of
prabhandha kavitwam that has more discussions on boobs than people. Porno
per se is not bad (as in kamasutra) where the context warrants it, but a
down pour of stock phrases describing female body-parts independent of the
context is at best a sign of baroqueness.
To a large extent, I agree with Ranganaikamma (muppalla) who pointed out
that Laxmana, when grieving of Sita's disappearance, laments on her
beautiful Thighs (and, he is supposed not to have seen all but her feet).
Mathematics also goes through similar problems, and so does Computer Science.
Lasting value in computer science is often measured by "Triple Subsscripted
MATHEMATICAL expressions" however un-necessary or un-wanted they may be.
A number of completely irrelavent proofs are produced in many conferences
and journals (to give examples from my own-sub-sub field: functional dependency
theory, negation in logic programming).
Just as sanskrit plays the hallmark
of respect/classism in telugu poetry, triple-subscripted-mathematics plays
the same role in computer science Ph.D. theses (I served on several committees
of these), and papers (I reviewed journal papers and served in conference
committees). If you are interested in the abuse of the so-called
"mathematics" in Economics you may want to read "Imposters in the temples".
In the beginning of a field/subfield, the style is usually classical, as
Von Neumann says.
The presentation of Codd's theory on relational databases can be compared to
the nice poetry of Potana (simple, easy to understand, enjoyable, and perhaps
with practical use). Another example is the thesis of Shamos "Computational
Geometry". With one thesis he started an entire field. I'd kill to be
the author of such a Ph.D. thesis.
However, later on, so many people jumped on to the bandwagon to make it
really baroque, infertile, and plain boring.
For example, the prabhandha-kawitams (e.g., nandi timmana'(?)s
parijatapaharanam where he uses so many stock-phrases to describe
satyabhama, I really got sick of them ... the famous poem ..."ana vini
vetuvadda uragangana vale...")
The examples of baroqueness in Computational geometry and Databases similarly
are "musium keepers problems" and "functional dependency theory" and negation
in logic programming. These topics have been killed to death, I wish someone
put an RIP to them...
Thus, what I 'd like to say is that there are at least 2 metrics that are
orthogonal to each other:
1. Aesthetics
2. Practical use (or, social commitment).
I am not sure which is better than which. It's best to have both: like writing
a paper that has both theorems and practical use. Gurajada's kanya sulkam
is an example of this. He himself says this in the preface: he was inventing
a new style (providing respect to the so-called crass telugu) and trying to
curb a bad social practice. What can you want more as a poet? It's nirvana
to have both social committment and aesthetic value.
To judge aesthetic value is very very hard. Even for the scholars and experts.
For, it is very subjective. I can only say that I think Potana had the
best of aesthetic values in telugu poetry that I know of.
Kumar.
Sitaramayya Ari
The classics certainly weren't meant
for the common folks and needless to say, they were not meant for women.
It is only after reading the feminist writers of the 70s, 80s and 90s, I
began to have a feeling for what women might feel when they read these
classics, particularly the ones which are supposed to be epics in
Sringaram, say the Kreedabhiramam of Srinatha.
But before I get to that I Should say that I have no gripe with Srinatha.
He was writing in a fashion that was obviuosly approved in his day. But
things change with time. Describing female body parts does not pass as
literature any more; may be porno literature but not respected
literature. I would even imagine that Srinatha would not resort to
his style of Sringaram today. How about the Lakshanikas though? Have they
grown up to accept the realities of today? I don't think so.
I will give a couple of examples below:
Prof. SV Joga Rao wrote a commentary on Kreedabhiramam. So when you read
the examples here, please remember that these are not poems selected by
me to ridicule Mahakavi Srinatha. These are from the selections of SVJ
who called them Anargha Ratnaalu.
Kati bhaarambunu jannudoyi bharamun galpinche na brahma pi
nnati kaudeegaku munna ipu vimalaarnahapoornamai yunna ee
ghatibhaarambokadekkutayye naninan karnaati kraalgannulan
batithaalimpuchu navve neelakabaree bhaarambu kampimpagaan
SVJ's comment: this lady with a thin waist already has two
weights to carry (obvious references to breasts). Now she has to carry a
third one - a pot.
Srinatha pays a lot of attention to boobs no matter whether the woman was
carrying water or working with something else.
Here is another one:
Kandukakeli salpedu prakaarambunam burushaayithakriyaa
thaandavarekha choopedu vidhambuna baamara bhaama letha yee
renda prabhaatha vela rachiyinche niranthabharambu jannulun
gundalamulgurulkadala gomayapindamu lintimungitan
The woman was making pidakalu out of cow dung. But the poet is
admiring the swing of the boobs while the woman is working.
What does SVJ think? He says: Aame paamara bhaama ayinaa, chestunnadi
pidakale ayinaa, rasikudi kannu pasikattindi aa sannivesamlo saundarya
lesanniguda vidavakundaa. Leka pote gomayapinda rachanalo purushaayitha
sphurana chaste marokadiki vasthundaa?
Only a pervert can appreciate the boob swings of a woman making pidakalu.
And it takes this kind of lakshanikulu to sing praises of such poetry.
I feel the problem is not with the writers of the past. It is with the
lakshanikaas of today who are out of touch with today's reality.
So, what do women readers, who are forced to read this poetry in the name
of classical poetry, feel about it? Well, some of them are saying that
where there are boobs, there are other things to talk about: like
abortions, like periods, like child births, etc, And the lakshanikas are
shocked! These subjects are not meant for poetry or literature! No
way, they are saying. "So called stree vaada kavitvam motham stree
jaathini represent cheyyatamledu. Kevalam ollu balisina pattana vunnatha
vargaala yuvathula vanchalanu maatrame reflect chestunnadi", said SV.
As if Srinatha's potry was representative of all Telugu people!
Sitaramayya Ari.
vi...@cortex.neuro.mssm.edu
(mostly deleted)
>The classics certainly weren't meant for the common folks and needless to
>>say, they were not meant for women. It is only after reading the feminist
>>writers of the 70s, 80s and 90s, I began to have a feeling for what women
>>might feel when they read these classics, particularly the ones which are
>>supposed to be epics in Sringaram,
>So, what do women readers, who are forced to read this poetry in the name
>of classical poetry, feel about it?
I did understand the concern for the 'sense of embarrassment for women'.
However, I am afraid certainly your reasons do not cover the entire
spectrum of the 70s, 80s and 90s. Regarding the present day reality of
'Sringaara (sex) and the situation of the women', I feel it is not just
confined to 'past literature' alone and in fact it may be the least. I
truly keep wondering about quite a few things in this matter. Quite
honestly, I am yet to digest this aspect. (Indeed, I am expressing my
thoughts more than answering you.)
In the past, the means of artistic communications happened to be mostly,
literature, dance, painting, music in a localized fashion. Though we do not
know what the situation in those days, by present day standards, the
description of woman in our past literature was quite objectionable today.
Looking at those conditions, when there was no 'electricity', no TVs, no
paper, no printing and copying machines for circulating literature, no
telecommunications, no computers, no networks, no publicity etc., it is
tough to assess how much of an impact 'literature' might have had on the
public in the past under those conditions. Was it very confined as
literally there would have been only one 'manuscript' of the 'kaavya'? But
present day,it is a different story. Getting the message across is much
easy, fast and wide. Today movies (both on screen and TV) especially having
clubbed the aspects of art such as 'literature, music and dance' capture
the attention of a common man than any of those forms of art in isolation.
Quite truly, this can deliver the intended message in a much more
collective and powerfully 'impact creating fashion' on a common man just
because of its 'audio visual' facility, with all the technical support in
the world. So, today literally they drag the attention of a 'common
man'(also immatured young people) just because of their attractive power. A
common man, being a 'common man' easily succumbs to them and allows
himself/herself to be influenced by them. So, I think sadly but truly, most
of the time, the artistic exposure of literature and music for a majority
of the present day generation is confined only to the TVs and movies, while
most of the education is dealing only with the technical and professional
aspects. Coming to movies, though there are exceptionally great movies with
good messages shown in a 'good fashion', we are often watching good movies
shown in a 'provocative fashion' and provocative ones in a very 'explosive
fashion' too. In the name of 'art and variety', people are going to any
extent especially regarding sex and violence. While it is needless to say
about the Western movies, Indian movies are no less. I really do not know,
whether a Telugu (Indian) woman should feel more embarrassed for a
Sreenaadha describing female breasts in 15th century in a Sanscritized
Telugu, or should be more embarrassed for certain 'film actresses' exposing
breasts on the Indian screen in 1980s in the name of 'art'. (Rajkapoor's
'satyam, Sivam, sundaram', 'raam tEri ganga maili' were the examples of
female breast exposure on the Indian screen all over the country.) People
of the present day did approve it. There can always be a debate of who is
responsible for this? Rajkapoor or the female artists? Or the censor board
or the public? The movie 'ustav'(1980s), praised as a classic, has
provocative scenes.The recent song 'ChOli ke peechE kyaa hai' (what is
there behind the blouse) of 'khalnayak'(1990s) got approved after an uproar
and was a smash hit. If the 'censor board' approves it, aren't there lady
memebers in it? (There are). A malayaalee friend of mine literally laments
how their movies were branded as 'seductive' in the recent past inspite of
some very good ones. The extent of exposure of the females, and the
willingness of the females to do so, keeps anyone wondering 'are women
helpless to help others to exploit them'. One might wonder, after all, a
'vaastaayana' may have just given a lingual description of what he wants to
say, but the present day 'artists' might be ready to bring a visual
perspective of it on the celluloid but for the 'censor board'. Getting
inspired by these movies, some youth are indulging in raising social
atrocities of both sex and violence, where once again some innocent people,
specifically some women are at the receiving end. Some of these aspects
were picturized in a Telugu movie called 'suDigunDaalu' in 60s itself,
which warns against the circulation of sex and detective novels in the
youth. This is the reason I am wondering 'today, is there a contemporary
welfare perspective among the 'contemporary artists' themselves (of which
women are also the part)?' Do they really know what is good for them and
for the society? Do they want to keep finding faults with 'past literature'
ignoring their own misdeeds? I think these are much more serious questions
than yours. Can we do something to set the present situation right?
(Indeed, these thoughts only spurred me to write recently posted
'naagarikata' vacana kavita.)
On the other hand, part of the 'Nirmal paintings' of Andhra Pradesh is
another great example of creating a visual perspective of female breats,
which are now becoming World famous for their artistic beauty. (I do not
know its history of when it started etc. For sure in the modern era.)
Should this practice be discouraged? Among the contemporaries of painting,
'vaDDaadi paapayya' and for sure 'baapu'(I did see a few of his) drawings
are said to be most artistic, but did draw the female parts in a very
attractive way. What title can we give them? Artists or woman embarrassors?
I am sure 'ravivarma' would have drawn a few too. As I said, I am truly
confused. But perhaps, for all the displeasure of the women, expressed by
70s, 80s, and 90s, pointing a finger at 'old classical literature' as the
sole reason by all means can not be right.
> Well, some of them are saying that where there are......, there are other
>>things to talk about: like abortions, like periods, like child births, >etc,
>And the lakshanikas are shocked! These subjects are not meant for >poetry or
>literature! No way, they are saying.
On one side, it is the pity and on the other, it is irrational to think so.
One got to have both contemporary and broader perspective to develop it. I
do not think it is just for fun or with mere emotion Sree Sree said that
'aggipulla, kukka pilla, sabbu biLla, kaavEvee kavitaku anarhaalu.'
I believe it happens that some people get attracted to somethings more than
the other. But the strange thing about human nature and behaviour is 'the
stronger liking for one does not stop there and it extends towards the
disliking of its 'counterpart'. ANR/NTR; andhra/telangaaNa; classical
music/light music; hindutsani/carnatic; BJP/Congress (I); old/new;
males/females; sree sree/viswanatha; democrates/republicans. There is no
end for this list, not only just today, on any day!
With regards,
Prabhakar Vissavajjhala
Raghu Seshadri
Mr Ari writes -
: The classics certainly weren't meant
: for the common folks and needless to say, they were not meant for women.
There is absolutely no evidence for this.
: things change with time. Describing female body parts does not pass as
: literature any more; may be porno literature but not respected
: literature. I would even imagine that Srinatha would not resort to
Purely subjective and arbitrary. By this
criterion nothing that John Updike wrote
would be literature. Or Hermann Hesse.
Or Nabokov.
: Kati bhaarambunu jannudoyi bharamun galpinche na brahma pi
: nnati kaudeegaku munna ipu vimalaarnahapoornamai yunna ee
: ghatibhaarambokadekkutayye naninan karnaati kraalgannulan
: batithaalimpuchu navve neelakabaree bhaarambu kampimpagaan
: SVJ's comment: this lady with a thin waist already has two
: weights to carry (obvious references to breasts). Now she has to carry a
: third one - a pot.
: Srinatha pays a lot of attention to boobs no matter whether the woman was
: carrying water or working with something else.
Is this supposed to be a criticism ? Is it your
position, sir, that you consistently pay no
attention to them ?
: The woman was making pidakalu out of cow dung. But the poet is
: admiring the swing of the boobs while the woman is working.
: Only a pervert can appreciate the boob swings of a woman making pidakalu.
? ?
Pardon me, this is one of the strangest things
I have ever read. All red-blooded, healthy men
are pre-programmed by nature to notice these
things. You cannot deny nature by fulminating
against it. If you call normal tendencies
perversions, you are (excuse me) perverting the
language.
: I feel the problem is not with the writers of the past. It is with the
: lakshanikaas of today who are out of touch with today's reality.
I think there was absolutely no problem with
Srinatha or any of the other erotic poets.
I would be surprised if a senstive, alive,
perceptive and cultured poet did NOT
write some erotic poetry.
I sincerely hope that all of them remain
out of touch with today's reality as you
conceive it.
In my observation, men continue to pay attention
to women's breasts, swaying or otherwise,
and that is the true reality.
: So, what do women readers, who are forced to read this poetry in the name
: of classical poetry, feel about it? Well, some of them are saying that
: where there are boobs, there are other things to talk about: like
: abortions, like periods, like child births, etc, And the lakshanikas are
: shocked! These subjects are not meant for poetry or literature! No
: way, they are saying. "So called stree vaada kavitvam motham stree
: jaathini represent cheyyatamledu. Kevalam ollu balisina pattana vunnatha
: vargaala yuvathula vanchalanu maatrame reflect chestunnadi", said SV.
This is again subjective and there is
no right or wrong answer. The feminists
are right, of course, but it is certainly
valid for aestheticians to argue that
some subjects are unseemly. ( from Aristotle
to Dandin, revulsion has not been welcome
in drama. )
: As if Srinatha's potry was representative of all Telugu people!
No one set of poems can represent all the people.
But it is certainly a vital part of the whole.
: Sitaramayya Ari.
Don't look at literature thru stuffy, ideological
glasses, Mr Ari.
RS
Sitaramayya Ari
>This is again subjective and there is
>no right or wrong answer. The feminists
>are right, of course, but it is certainly
>valid for aestheticians to argue that
>some subjects are unseemly. ( from Aristotle
>to Dandin, revulsion has not been welcome
>in drama. )
>
>
>glasses, Mr Ari.
>
>RS
I am assuming that you are reacting to this post and have not noticed the threads on
Lakshanikas for the last 4-6 weeks. Please tell me if it is not so. I will tell
you briefly the reasons for my comments on Srinatha and where we started about 2
months ago.
One SCITer commented that Lakshanikas do not approve of Sri Sri's poetry because
it contained Bheebhatsarasam for the most part. It was also said that Lakshana
Sastra had prescriptions about what should and should not be in Kaavyas. If you
ask me, it is these Lakshanikas who are stuffy and wearing ideological glasses.
They have been doing it for centuries and curbing the flowering of Telugu language.
My view is that it is the thoughts expressed in poetry (or prose) that matter and
not somebody,s rules. Now, do you still insist that I am the stuffy one wearing
ideological glasses!
Now coming to Srinatha's soft porn or Vyasa's description of the woman crying over
the dead husband (from Sri Veluri's post), the question simply is about
appropriateness in terms of the Lakshanas. Are death and sex appropriate in one
poem? Are pidakalu making and Sringaram appropriate in one poem? Or is it OK if
Srinatha does it or Vyasa does it?
My view is that you are welcome to enjoy Srinatha's poetry if you like, but don't
tell me that Sri Sri is not a poet or that Lakshanikas don't approve of it. I am
saying that it is time the so-called Lakshanikas grow up and understand the
contemporary realities.
Now coming to your point that revulsion is not welcome in Drama, Whether it is
drama or poetry, I would say that this is one of typical lakshanika rules. Whose
revulsion? Describing breasts in every other poem in Kreedabhiramam is poetic?
not revolting? Did you ever ask a woman what she thinks of this? Can a woman feel
revolted at this soft porn passing as classic literature? Or do you think these
questions are stuffy?
The ones who are using ideology to deny and suppress independent expression of
thoughts are on the other side of the fense. You are directing your criticism at
the wrong address.
regards,
Sitaramayya Ari.
PS: An SCITer brought it to my attention that the word "boobs" is offensive
and suggested that I not use it in place of the word "breasts." My apologies.
Raghu Seshadri
>Don't look at literature thru stuffy, ideological
>glasses, Mr Ari.
-I am assuming that you are reacting to this post and have not noticed
-the threads on Lakshanikas for the last 4-6 weeks. Please tell me if it
-is not so.
Your assumption is correct.
-One SCITer commented that Lakshanikas do not approve of Sri Sri's poetry
-because it contained Bheebhatsarasam for the most part. It was also said
-that Lakshana Sastra had prescriptions about what should and should not
-be in Kaavyas. If you ask me, it is these Lakshanikas who are stuffy and
-wearing ideological glasses. They have been doing it for centuries and
-curbing the flowering of Telugu language.
-My view is that it is the thoughts expressed in poetry (or prose) that
- matter and not somebody,s rules. Now, do you still insist that I am the
-stuffy one wearing ideological glasses!
I appreciate your position much better now.
Pardon my ignorance, the aetheticians, as far
as I know, only had rules regarding expression
and format - not content per se. Is that not
true ?
-Now coming to Srinatha's soft porn or Vyasa's description of the woman
-crying over the dead husband (from Sri Veluri's post), the question
-simply is about appropriateness in terms of the Lakshanas. Are death
-and sex appropriate in one poem? Are pidakalu making and Sringaram
-appropriate in one poem? Or is it OK if -Srinatha does it or Vyasa does it?
My personal opinion is that both sex and
death are primal themes in life - displaying
them side by side in one poem makes for
a powerful statement, and was a brilliant
commingling on Srinatha's part.
-My view is that you are welcome to enjoy Srinatha's poetry
-if you like, but don't tell me that Sri Sri is not a poet or that
-Lakshanikas don't approve of it. I am
-saying that it is time the so-called Lakshanikas grow up and understand the
-contemporary realities.
I don't see why in the name of contemporary
reality the rules of aesthetics have to be
given up. As long as there is human society
there will always be concern about decency,
decorum, appropriateness, formalism etc etc.
This debate will NEVER end. Nothing in
contemporary reality can resolve this dispute
categorically.
You are right in saying that subjects previously
deemed taboo should be taken up now - but its
treatment will still come under the lens
of aestheticians.
-Now coming to your point that revulsion is not welcome in Drama, Whether it is
-drama or poetry, I would say that this is one of typical lakshanika rules.
-Whose revulsion? Describing breasts in every other poem in Kreedabhiramam
-is poetic? not revolting? Did you ever ask a woman what she thinks of this?
-Can a woman feel revolted at this soft porn passing as classic literature?
-Or do you think these questions are stuffy?
Whoa ! Let me answer these questions one by one.
Whose revulsion - this question has no easy answer.
The weight of history, tradition and culture
is on the side of the lakshanikas. Sure, we
don't have to be bound by it, but kavya is a
convention anyway, so it is hard to be against
all convention when talking about kavya.
I am really intrigued - if I am not being
personal - why is mention of
breasts revolting to you ? I did ask a bunch
of women I know about this - none thought
it was revolting at all - in fact some were
offended that a man would find such an
essential part of femininity revolting !
There is something bizarre going on here.
To most people, breasts are alluring,
tantalizing, appealing both sexually
and as a symbol of maternity and nurturing.
To you they are revolting. I claim that
your notion must be a very tiny untypical
minority.
-The ones who are using ideology to deny and suppress independent
-expression of thoughts are on the other side of the fense. You are
-directing your criticism at the wrong address.
-regards,
-Sitaramayya Ari.
I have no problem with the CONTENT of anyone's
poem, but I sympathize with the aesthetician's
motivation which lay the ground for an acceptable
expression of them. I agree this is purely
a preference of mine - I find certain expressions
uncouth, raw, vulgar and indecent. In the name
of independent expression I do not favor
demolishing all rules of convention.
-
-PS: An SCITer brought it to my attention that the word "boobs" is offensive
-and suggested that I not use it in place of the word "breasts." My apologies.
This is an excellent example of what I am saying.
The content of your article deals with "breasts",
and your aesthetician friend does not object
to the content, only the expression of it
as "boobs". And you conform to it. Correctly
so. This is all the lakshanikas are demanding
of Sri Sri also.
RS
Albrecht Wolf
kum...@bellcore.com (Kumar Vadaparty) wrote:
...
>Let me give two extreme viewpoints on mathematics, and two extreme view points
>on telugu literature, and then on computer science.
>I think the best answer was given by Von Neumann, and we can apply his answer
>even to Telugu poetry. (you will see).
...[the other viewpoint is that of G. Hardy (of Hardy Ramanujam fame)
"A mathematician's apology"
...
>In the beginning of a field/subfield, the style is usually classical, as
>Von Neumann says.
...
> However, later on, so many people jumped on to the bandwagon to make it
> really baroque, infertile, and plain boring.
....
>Thus, what I 'd like to say is that there are at least 2 metrics that are
>orthogonal to each other:
>1. Aesthetics
>2. Practical use (or, social commitment).
>I am not sure which is better than which. It's best to have both: like writing
>a paper that has both theorems and practical use.
> Gurajada's kanya sulkam
>is an example of this. He himself says this in the preface: he was inventing
>a new style (providing respect to the so-called crass telugu) and trying to
>curb a bad social practice. What can you want more as a poet? It's nirvana
>to have both social committment and aesthetic value.
>To judge aesthetic value is very very hard. Even for the scholars and experts.
>For, it is very subjective. I can only say that I think Potana had the
>best of aesthetic values in telugu poetry that I know of.
But judging use or social commitment is the same mess. The problem is
not just to find out what is really the case, but is harder: we did
not agree yet on a definition of the terms.
On the contrary, I think it is possible that we agree on criteria for
"baroque" style, as Von Neumann calls it. And maybe a criterion of
good mathematic literature is the ability to stick to classic style
for long time. This does not depend on the mathematical papers
themselves but on the whole life style and how to bring ideas into the
public area. I think of Gauss holding back his knowledge of
non-Euclidean geometry. He brought things forward not by publishing
but by making public relations in favor of Bernhard Riemann.
This trick is sign of a wise man.
What I mean is: don't study history of heroes (in math or poetry or
whatever) to create your personal hall of fame, but study to learn
such tricks. Since it does not depend just on the wise person itself
if it is possible to found a classical topic. Depends on society
(education, welfare and all), as well as how hard it is to step
forward in the field/subfield.
So you can not blame Von Neumann for what is game theory nowadays,
e.g. And its hard to say what went wrong in database design theory.
Myself I decided not to read much math literature, or publish, but to
concentrate on making my ideas work for me first. To develop all
methods I need on my own. To make simple proofs of the classic
theorems I admire.
For, all social commitment will be fake (I speak of the people with
pen or keyboard), if ideas are not tested for personal use first. And
this may last several decades.
>Lasting value in computer science is often measured by "Triple Subsscripted
>MATHEMATICAL expressions" however un-necessary or un-wanted they may be.
>A number of completely irrelavent proofs are produced in many conferences
>and journals (to give examples from my own-sub-sub field: functional dependency
>theory, negation in logic programming).
....
>Just as sanskrit plays the hallmark
>of respect/classism in telugu poetry, triple-subscripted-mathematics plays
>the same role in computer science Ph.D. theses (I served on several committees
>of these), and papers (I reviewed journal papers and served in conference
>committees).
3subscript ??
Do you speak of functionals (so that the argument set consists of
functions itself) ? Hum, that's a hypothesis to be discussed - not in
SCIT :-)
Kumar, you may mail me if you want to make clear your thesis, or
suggest a ng more appropriate.
Albrecht
<<Surf all night, work all day>>
(was:<<Surf all night, *sleep* all day>>
Albrecht Wolf web page will appear soon
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