WHY NENI IN THE END ?
Ayyagari V. Subramanyam
Myneni Polineni
Mikkilineni Akkineni
Dhodapaneni Parvathaneni
Kantamaneni Vallabhaneni
--------------------------------------
Some of the *nenis* I remember off hand. Does anybody know what is
so common among these guys? I mean what is the significance of *neni* coming
in the end ?
If this is specific to a particular group, then why *Nandamuri T. Rama Rao*
who rightfully belongs to the above group doesnt have a *neni* in the end?
*******************************************
* No flames please. This a honest query!! *
*******************************************
Subu
Sreehari Nimmala
: --------------------------------------
Its hard to believe that this is an honest query. You seemingly
know as to which community these surnames referred to. The names
ending with *neni* are among many surnames of this community. NTR's
family is one of such family which don't have *neni* ending. Many
of Andhra surnames don't really have legitimate meanings. For
example what is the meaning of famous surname "Rao". You may
probably(knowingly or unknowingly) trying to bring the topic of
"caste" into this group, and I strongly feel that is very
unhealthy.
---Sree
Seetamraju
>: so common among these guys? I mean what is the significance of *neni* coming
>: in the end ?
>
I agree too. But, I learnt a lot from such a question-answer
session recently...
>of Andhra surnames don't really have legitimate meanings. For
>example what is the meaning of famous surname "Rao". You may
I disagree. Continuiing from above, I learnt that people whose
last names end in niDu (neeDu) (: example famous producer baapineedu)
have a glorious lineage of great generals (nayakudu -- corrupted to naayuDU
to neeDu) during vijayanagaram empire... Now that should make such people
proud !!
I also came to know the history behind yhe kind of surname I had...
and also the surname of my mother's father (becasue, my maena-maama
is an self-learned scholar in these issues + granthaalu also)...
Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
Sreehari Nimmala
: In article <10...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> che...@emory.edu (Sreehari Nimmala) writes:
: >: so common among these guys? I mean what is the significance of *neni* coming
: >: in the end ?
: >
: >Its hard to believe that this is an honest query. You seemingly
:
: I agree too. But, I learnt a lot from such a question-answer
: session recently...
: I disagree. Continuiing from above, I learnt that people whose
: last names end in niDu (neeDu) (: example famous producer baapineedu)
: have a glorious lineage of great generals (nayakudu -- corrupted to naayuDU
: to neeDu) during vijayanagaram empire... Now that should make such people
: proud !!
I tried many a times to analyze and get a reasonable meanings of
Andhra surnames. But, I was unsuccessful in many cases. Probably,
few of such surnames may have legitimate reason and meaning. For
example, Vankaayala: people might have got this surname because
their ancestors might have grown or sold "vankaayalu". Then, there
are so many(I mean it) surnames in Andhra. Some of them might have
been derived from caste or sect or profession. But, I still feel
that most of these surnames may not have a particular reason(I may
be wrong). It would be nice if some of our friends come up with
explanations and reasonings of some surnames. NO IMAGINARY
EXPLANATIONS, BUT REAL.
---Sree
:
: Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
Ramana R. Juvvadi
>Its hard to believe that this is an honest query. You seemingly
>know as to which community these surnames referred to. The names
>ending with *neni* are among many surnames of this community. NTR's
>family is one of such family which don't have *neni* ending. Many
Just to set the record straight, 'neni' does not necessarily refer to
Kammas. I have relatives with surnames 'Yennamaneni' and 'Ponnamaneni'.
I vaguely remember reading that (either by Khandavalli Lakshmiranjanam or
Arudra) 'Neni' comes from 'Nadu'. That means 'Parvataneni' refers to
probably people who come 'Parvatanadu'.
>of Andhra surnames don't really have legitimate meanings. For
>example what is the meaning of famous surname "Rao". You may
>probably(knowingly or unknowingly) trying to bring the topic of
>"caste" into this group, and I strongly feel that is very
>unhealthy.
I am not sure keeping mum and wishing it away is going to
solve any problem. Casteism is a problem in our society and that should
be dealt with by discussing it in detail. Why are we so jittery about
even mentioning the names of castes? For example, is it possible to
discuss race relations in America without mentioning the terms
'Black' or 'White'. We see so many novels in the Western world
portraying the atmosphere of different cultures as accurately
as possible.
Why is it that our literature never captured the subtle tension that
exists between different castes. We as a society have been extremely
inarticulate in tackling the problem of caste. Can you imagine a writer
putting into print all the private jokes that Kammas crack on Brahmins and
Brahmins on Kammas ( For that matter, any two castes on each other).
The issue is explosive and it requires writers of extreme balance,
judgement, articulation and courage. But caste system is an important
fact of our life and 'Glasnost' would go a long way in dismantling
it than secrecy, silence, cliches and platitudes.
>---Sree
Ramana
nl...@cas.org
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TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
Hi! Everyone!
This is request. PLEASE DON'T POST ITEMS LIKE THE ONE ABOVE. I AM NOT THE
OWNER OR THE DIRECTOR OF THE NET. BUT PLEASE DON'T DO THIS FOR THE SAKE OF
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PLEASE! PLEASE!! PLEASE!!!
KEEP THE TELUGU NEWS NET CLEAN. DON'T CONTINUE BATTLING OVER THIS!
FORGET AND FORGIVE!
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WHERE TIRELESS STRIVING STRETCHES THE ARMS TOWARD PERFECTION,
WHERE THE CLEAR STREAM OF REASON HAS NOT LOST ITS WAY IN TO THE DREARY
DESERT SAND OF DEAD INHIBIT......
MY FATHER! LET MY COUNTRY AWAKE!!!
(RABINDRANATH TAGORE, 1913 GEETANJALI)
(I have also the Telugu version for this.)
OM SAHA NAAVAVATU
SAHA NAU BHUNAKTU
SAHA VEERYAM KARAVAAVAHAI
TEJASVINAAVADHI TAMASTU MAA VIDVISHAAVAHAI
ON SANTIH SANTIH SANTIHI!!!
MAY THE LORD PROTECT US BOTH
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MAY WE NOT HATE ONE ANOTHER
LET THERE BE PEACE AND PEACE AND PEACE!!!
Sincerely
Paranandi Lakshmi Narasimham
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Paranandi Lakshmi Narasimham
Chemical Abstracts Service
American Chemical Society
Columbu
Ohio 43202
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed above are not those of CAS at all.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
kumar vadaparty
> In article <10...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> che...@emory.edu (Sreehari Nimmala) writes:
>
> >probably(knowingly or unknowingly) trying to bring the topic of
> >"caste" into this group, and I strongly feel that is very
> >unhealthy.
>
> I am not sure keeping mum and wishing it away is going to
> solve any problem. Casteism is a problem in our society and that should
> be dealt with by discussing it in detail. Why are we so jittery about
I agree with Nimmala Sreehari that a discussion on Castes is
unhealthy. But to who? To the newsgroup. I used to think like JVR
(Ramana R. Juvvadi) that an open discussion will go a long way; until
such open discussions started on SCI. The newsgroup is now dead as far
as I am concerned for making intelligible discussions on anything. So
low SNR (signal to noise ratio) that you can hardly hear. I nowadays
go by the author's name in the postings of SCI; obviously no new
author can impress me with his views -- simply because I dont read new
authors. I just can not take the risk of reading 50 postings a day.
> The issue is explosive and it requires writers of extreme balance,
> judgement, articulation and courage. But caste system is an important
Precisely! And, let me venture (at the expense of being flamed
excoriated, flailed and what not) to say that Indians AS A COLLECTIVE
GROUP do not have it (i.e., judgement, articulation, etc.), and
Andhras as a group never exhibited it. I ask you to put forward
half-a-dozen writers in Telugu or English (the only languages I read
literature in) who expressed in good detail, but balanced detail, any
sensitive issue. Koku and Gurajada and Kandukuri apart, I can not
recall any. Even gurajada and kandukuri were not explicit. Gurajada
was subtle and sarcastic, kandukuri was more preaching. RKnarayanan
comes close, but he hardly criticizes; he makes fun of.
> fact of our life and 'Glasnost' would go a long way in dismantling
> it than secrecy, silence, cliches and platitudes.
>
> >---Sree
I agree. But, do we have enough gorbys with the courage and the
balance to do this? My guess is that just like America waited until
sixties to discuss about sex, we probably need to wait until another
twenty years to even openly discuss about caste system. Unfortunate,
but true.
Nevermind castesystem; just regionalism: I often was told by my
friends of Vijayawada origin (brahmins, kammas, kapus, and what have
you (the castenames arranged alphabetically)) that their telugu is the
best, and that the pandits of telugu originated from there. When I
confronted them with tons of details of Telugu history (both modern
and traditional) questioning about the so-called contribution from
Vijayawada (which there is, but not known to them), they remained mum.
They dont even know how many people together wrote the first telugu
translation of Mahabharatam, nevermind the subtilities. The moment I
say I come from Vizag, immediately, they say "Oh! YOu dont have vizag
accent" as if everybody in Vizag speaks like a "Jalari". Even if so, I
could not care less. But it is this supiriority complex combined with
the total ignorance of history that pisses me off! I witnessed such
discrimination by my friends on people from Telangana -- that their
telugu is not pure. I am sure JVR witnessed it too! But why? Because,
the whole attitude is "In order to prove that I am better than you, I
need to insult you, and what better way than appealing to your
origins, linguistic or geographic or casteistic" This sucks. plain and
simple. Unless we get rid of this, and try to recognize the relative
merits of each other, we can hardly participate in a productive
discussion on sensitive issues.
So, Ramana, if you want to talk about Casteism, you are risking both
low SNR ratio and enormous mudslinging. I know I am coping out; but
this seems more pleasant option than draining your emotions.
>
> Ramana
kumar.
--
Ramarao Kanneganti
>In article <35...@creatures.cs.vt.edu>, juv...@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Ramana R. Juvvadi) writes:
>> In article <10...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> che...@emory.edu (Sreehari Nimmala) writes:
>
>Precisely! And, let me venture (at the expense of being flamed
>excoriated, flailed and what not) to say that Indians AS A COLLECTIVE
>GROUP do not have it (i.e., judgement, articulation, etc.), and
>Andhras as a group never exhibited it. I ask you to put forward
>half-a-dozen writers in Telugu or English (the only languages I read
>literature in) who expressed in good detail, but balanced detail, any
>sensitive issue. Koku and Gurajada and Kandukuri apart, I can not
>recall any. Even gurajada and kandukuri were not explicit. Gurajada
>was subtle and sarcastic, kandukuri was more preaching. RKnarayanan
>comes close, but he hardly criticizes; he makes fun of.
The names of the people who wrote sensitively about issues in Telugu
in no particular order.
1) The author's names escapes me -- Musalamma MaraNam.
2) Gurajada -- Putthadi bomaa poorNamma.
3) Chalam -- Women's issues [At times blunt and bitter! He probably
tips to one side to restore the balance.]
4) Unnava Lakshmi Narayana -- Malapalli [ Greatest work if you are
looking for sensitivity and sensibility!]
5) Arudra -- Tvamewaaham [About Rajakars movement]
6) Dasaradhi Rangaachaaraya -- Books and novels on Telangaana pOraaTam
7) Buchi Babu -- Chivaraki MigilEdi
8) Rachakonda -- Vennela [This is a short story that redeems the
Telugu literature of this century! With the sensitivity of Steinbeck
and language of Nabakov and the imegery of Chengiz Ithmatov, this is
the best that Telugu literature has to offer!]
9) Ravoori Bhradwaja -- PakuDu Raallu and Kadmbari
10) Koku -- needless to say!
11) Kaleepatnam Ramarao -- his stories.
12) Arnad -- CheekatOllu [About Vizag and its slums]
13) Kesava Reddy -- RamuDunDadu, RajjemunDaadi. [An unsurpassed
work about emigration to the cities from villages]
14) Malladi Ramakrishna Sastry -- Nativity!! What a riot!
15) Uppala Lakshmana Rao -- Atadu, Ame. [About marriage, men and women.]
16) Tapee DharmA rao -- His literary efforts are too numerous.
[I will stop here, not for lack of names, but lack of time.]
Some of the above authors are prescriptivists and some are simply
discriptivists. But what they have in common is honesty and
sensitivity. One may not agree with their opinions to agree that are
eminently sensitive. And, they are detailed works. Some are balanced
and some are deliberately tipped to oneside, so that in the social
context they were read, they could provide the balance.
[Yes I read them and No, I don't have them with me but most of
them are available in AP libraries.]
>Nevermind castesystem; just regionalism: ......
>could not care less. But it is this supiriority complex combined with
>the total ignorance of history that pisses me off! I witnessed such
>discrimination by my friends on people from Telangana -- that their
>telugu is not pure. I am sure JVR witnessed it too! But why? Because,
>the whole attitude is "In order to prove that I am better than you, I
>need to insult you, and what better way than appealing to your
>origins, linguistic or geographic or casteistic" This sucks. plain and
>simple. Unless we get rid of this, and try to recognize the relative
>merits of each other, we can hardly participate in a productive
>discussion on sensitive issues.
>
>So, Ramana, if you want to talk about Casteism, you are risking both
>low SNR ratio and enormous mudslinging. I know I am coping out; but
>this seems more pleasant option than draining your emotions.
>
>kumar.
>--
According to you, the only way to discuss certain sensitive issues is
to get rid of "superiority complex combined with total ignorance of
history". According to me, the only way to accomplish, however painful
it is, is to discuss the issues so that they will gain the knowledge
of the history and get rid of superiority complexes. After all this is
the cheap way, we cannot afford to send 6 crores [ minus x < 6] of
Telugu's who never exhibited "judgment and articulation" to psychiatric
counseling.
-- rama
PS: There is a wonderful story "Guntur" in one of the Rachakonda
collections you might empathise with. It is about Vizag and Guntur ....
PPS: From what I remember, the original Q was not even about caste, it
was about surnames and it could be answered with out preaching or
coming down on it. Pls see my other posting on that.
Kuram T Narayana
>> In article <10...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> che...@emory.edu (Sreehari Nimmala) writes:
>>
>> >probably(knowingly or unknowingly) trying to bring the topic of
>> >"caste" into this group, and I strongly feel that is very
>> >unhealthy.
>>
>> I am not sure keeping mum and wishing it away is going to
>> solve any problem. Casteism is a problem in our society and that should
>> be dealt with by discussing it in detail. Why are we so jittery about
>
>low SNR ratio and enormous mudslinging. I know I am coping out; but
>this seems more pleasant option than draining your emotions.
>
>>
>> Ramana
>
>kumar.
>--
There is a pleasant and an academic way of discussion on caste!
The way one does it through caste dynamics, what caused the dynamics,
and so on! That will tell us lot about power and how power begets power,
and how power currupts.
For example the Sathavahana dynasty in Andhrapradesh were Brahmins!
How could they become rulers! What factors led to the fall of the
power of Brahmins! How did Reddirajulu come about! Such issues draw
from history a lot and bring to light that some of the misconceptions
that we hold about particular communities are perhaps not true! That
is the purpose of historically studying power in societies! One can do
that, but to conduct a discussion a thorough and balanced understanding
of history is necessary!
...kt
Seetamraju
>I vaguely remember reading that (either by Khandavalli Lakshmiranjanam or
>Arudra) 'Neni' comes from 'Nadu'. That means 'Parvataneni' refers to
>probably people who come 'Parvatanadu'.
I heard about this innumerable number of times. I am responding to
ramana's post, just to confirm that he is not `imagining'....
But, the neni need not just mean people FROM a certain place, but
also this ::::: `for example : lets see taatineni : it could mean
taati-vaari :: where taati might have been a sensible noun or
adjective long ago...
(I HAVE USED TATINENI AS A RANDOM EXAMPLE : I DO NOT KNOW HOW THAT
FAMILY NAME CAME INTO BEING)
Ramarao Kanneganti
>In article <1992Sep28....@njitgw.njit.edu> su...@sensors.njit.edu (Ayyagari V. Subramanyam) writes:
>>--------------------------------------
>>
>>so common among these guys? I mean what is the significance of *neni* coming
>>in the end ?
>>
>>
>
No flames from here. From what I have read [Too many to list and
might offend some body if I list the source!!] Neni comes from
"Nayuni". It is like O'Conner [Conner wari]. For example my maternal
surname comes from "Papinayuni" which became "papineni". Most
probably the word "Nayudu" means landlord or a general in the army.
Even today in some parts of AP, landed gentry are refered to as
"Nayudu" irrespective of castes! The Papi Nayudu in question is
claimed to be from the army of Rudrama Devi.
Another of these surnames is "ganti" as in "changanti". My sources say
it means "of chagallu". I wonder where the surname "ganti" comes
from?? Similarly "Alapati" comes from "Alapadu". I can list several
froms, but I will desist.
As per Reddy, it comes from "rashtra kuta --> Rattakudi --> Reddy".
They are surmised to be from Dekkan area of Maharatashtra originally.
And, as per *REAL* answers, as with any question in socialogy, answers
are never completely correct. It is subject to interpretation.
For all the unasked Q's:
1) Is there an algorithm to decide the caste from the surname?
A: No. There are several surnames that span across the castelines.
Besides, forms of surnames go across the caste lines. And, no caste
has a small set of forms of surnames.
2) Is the mere mention of Caste mean that one is a Caste-ist?
A: No, he might be merely acknowledging the history. He may not be
thinking of discriminating any person, thing, action or thought based
on the caste it originated.
For all those good hearted people who opposed the above questioning,
your motives are good. Please direct them where needed. Do not chase
red herrings. If some body were to really cross the lines, please
reason with him. And, don't stiffle any questions by presuming
diabolical motives!
-- rama
PS: When people here ask me what my last name was, I used to say " No,
I have only one name and it is Rama Rao. I have a family name also and
it is Kanneganti. We don't have a last name. In deed, we put our
family name first as per the grammer of the language." Doesn't it make
sense to "Changallu nuchi subramanyam"? Rather biblical I say!!
Koneru V K S Srinivas
It is specific to one group but that does not mean everyone's family name in that group
should end with a neni.Does that answer your question?
kumar vadaparty
>
> According to you, the only way to discuss certain sensitive issues is
> to get rid of "superiority complex combined with total ignorance of
> history". According to me, the only way to accomplish, however painful
I have tried at different levels (of explanation) on various more
innocous issues and could never succeed on SCI. I made several good
friends, who agreed with me, but no consensus what so ever (not even
near). So, I had enough of experience in this approach you are
suggesting it and at this time, am not interested in the PAIN (you
said it) it requires me to go through. Sorry.
> was about surnames and it could be answered with out preaching or
> coming down on it. Pls see my other posting on that.
And lastly, dear ramarao, I intend to give no preaches here as you
seem to be (unnecessarily) imploring. The question was should we or
should we not discuss about castes. The original posting was ofcourse
not about castes, but I was addressing this question raised by Mr.
Nimmala in a followup (you may ask why should this question arise, but
that is different). I just wrote from my failed (and bitter)
experience of SCI. You could have realized that much. It is precisely
such comments that can lead to unending digressive battles.
Mr. I.V.Ramanarao tried so desparately to contain test messages and
"where are you" messages on SCI and unsubscribed to it (to my
knowledge he still remains so) finally as he failed to do anything
about it. These are probably the easiest things to control and were
not controlled.
Goodluck to you all for those exciting discussions on castes,
their origin, relative oppression, etc. and how to get rid of it in
India (nay, AP).
Thanks.
>
> -- rama
>
cynically, yours.
kumar.
--
Ramana R. Juvvadi
>I agree. But, do we have enough gorbys with the courage and the
>balance to do this? My guess is that just like America waited until
>sixties to discuss about sex, we probably need to wait until another
>twenty years to even openly discuss about caste system. Unfortunate,
>but true.
Mario Cuomo has a nice way of summarizing Bush's economic policy. He is
waiting for Gods of economic cycles to pull this country of recession
and the government need do nothing meanwhile. Whether Mario Cuomo is
right or not that count, his statement is perfectly valid in our context.
If you think our society is going to miraculously become more
mature after some time you are sadly mistaken. Openness in sex in
America didn't come about without emotional turmoil by millions.
I am not sure we can sidestep that process and reach the final
step miraculously. There is a serious communication gap in the
society if we can't even enquire the meaning of 'neni' without
fearing casteist misunderstanding.
>So, Ramana, if you want to talk about Casteism, you are risking both
>low SNR ratio and enormous mudslinging. I know I am coping out; but
>this seems more pleasant option than draining your emotions.
Probably. But if we can't discuss casteism here, where else can we discuss?
the print media, with guests in living room? Surely, this is a topic
worth discussing!
Ramana
Ramana R. Juvvadi
>For example the Sathavahana dynasty in Andhrapradesh were Brahmins!
>How could they become rulers! What factors led to the fall of the
I don't ever remember any historian saying that Shatavahanas are
Brahmins. There are probably a few instances where Brahmins ruled
the land themselves if you consider the whole of India but I can't recollect
even a minor kingdom in AP ruled by Brahmins. The higest political power
wielded by them was only up to the level of a minister.
According to our Puranas Andhra, Pundra, Pulinda, Shabara tribes
were living in the Southern Vindhyas. They were leading a very uncivilized
life due to a curse by Vishwamitra. It is probably a fair guess that
Shatavahana's ancestors belonged to the Andhra tribe.
>...kt
Ramana
Ramarao Kanneganti
>Mario Cuomo has a nice way of summarizing Bush's economic policy. He is
>waiting for Gods of economic cycles to pull this country of recession
>and the government need do nothing meanwhile. Whether Mario Cuomo is
The almost quote is [from my secondary memory, "The ship is heading
towards the rocks. The passengers know it, ... know it, but the
captain doesn't know it. He thinks that the invisible hand of some
cyclical economic God will save the ship miraculously in the last
minutes ..."
>
>Probably. But if we can't discuss casteism here, where else can we discuss?
>the print media, with guests in living room? Surely, this is a topic
>worth discussing!
>
>Ramana
For an interesting discussion on Caste from economic perspective, one
can read the authors such as Robert Heilbroner. It is a solution to
the economic problem, for which "market" is the currently popular
solution. More on this later.
-- Rama
Ramana R. Juvvadi
>When I heard that Sathavahanas were brahmins who took on the
>Kshatriya duties, I myself could not believe! That seems to
>be a fact. In history classes we are never told of this.
>I have to look thorugh some books to get you
>the precise details.
First of all I don't limit my horizon to school textbooks. Next, the history
of Andhra is not covered at all in our school curriculum.
At the outset, the claim does not sound very believable. Who is this
historian you are referring to? Has he uncovered any new evidence?
How did he arrive at the conclusion? If my guess is right there
is either a lapse in either your own memory or the person you
are referring to is of questionable credibility. Anyway, I'll wait
for you to produce the details rather than speculating.
>...kt
Ramana