On the sociology of a Brahmin's pilaka...
KNaray6684
When I was in India last January, I visted the Tirumala temple. For the first
time in my life, I had my head tonsured. Not only did I do that, I went in a
procession along with the Jeer and the Sri Vaishnavaas to attend the Saatthu
Morai. That was a very satisfying and unique experience. But it was unnatural
too, because I don’t remember to have ever tonsured my head. As I came off the
Saatthu Morai, my daughter yelled, ‘that’s cute papa!’. I was wearing a
Vaishnava dhOti in style and the uurdva punDaraas too. My mother said,
"Ramanuja was so consumed by that god that the legend says he used to go up the
stairs on his knees. This temple and the special right of worship to the
Vaishnavaas come from the guru parampara." I just smiled.
From then on, I had this desire to explore the tonsuring of the head and the
samskaaras associated with the pilaka. Why do Brahmin’s sport a pilaka? What is
its origin and how is it tied to the Hindu saampradaaya?
So, it is but natural, when the BrahmaNas and their pilakaas are venomously
talked about by the Dravidian racist scum element on this news group, my mind
wanders into the yesteryears and asks the question, "hE! BrahmaNa, why do you
wear this tuft? And why did your ancestors sport this tuft?" That naturally
lead me to the sociology of the pilaka.
In my own household, my grand father used to wear one; he must have worn one
from his very early childhood.
In the modern times the Hindu saampradaaya as practiced in the South requires a
subject who undergoes the Upanayanam ceremonies to sport a pilaka and then beg,
thereby entering his studentship.
Another significant instance is in the anthyEshTi samskaaras, when after the
cremation of a deceased person, all his male children have their head tonsured
with a small pilaka and come back home; it is a must for the person who is
going to perform the kharma kaanDa.
But the concept of tonsuring the head and sporting a pilaka has its origins in
the Gruhya suutraas of the Hindu saampradaaya. ChuuDaakaraNa, otherwise called
the tonsure of the head, is an important samskaara. Generally chuuDaakaraNa is
performed in the childhood of a man’s life, but it can be performed in the
twice-born at any time before the Upanayana samskaara.
In the very old days, people never knew what to do with their hair. They kept
on growing it and soon it became a hygiene problem. Apparently, there used to
be a lot of white worms. So, a few communities of people who wanted to
perpetually distinguish themselves from others by their cleanliness thought it
fit to cut that hair with a sharp iron instrument.
Thus the primary purpose of the chuuDaakaraNa samskaara is to give health and
beauty. Susruta in his caraka saastra supports the tonsure by saying, "the
cutting and dressing of the hair, beard, and nails give strength, life, purity,
and beauty." But ChuuDaakaraNa was an established tradition by the time of
Susruta.
ChuuDaakaraNa dates back to the times of Atharva vEda. Because of that
linguistic evidence, ChuuDaakaraNa is a sacrament performed in the traditional
vEdic style and the notion of tonsuring the head and sporting the pilaka comes
from the vEdic times. This in contrast to the modern days wherein the tonsure
of the head is performed in front of a deity and the hair is offered to the
deity. In fact, the dedication of the tonsure of the head to a deity is unknown
to the Gruhya suutras and the smrtis.
Almost all of the mantras relevant to a chuuDakaraNa samskara are from the
Atharva vEda. The father of the child who is being tonsured recites:
Om, SivO naamaasi svadhitistE pitaa namastE maa maa himsii.
"Thou art friendly by name. Thy father is hard iron. I salute thee; do not
injure the child." By reciting this mantra of the YajurvEda, the father of the
child praises the shaving razor. In the olden days, the instrument used to be
rough on the child and the father used to pray so that the child is not harmed
by the instrument.
The father then welcomes barber, who is considered the impersonator of Savitr,
the Sun, in that capacity. A sequence of mantras from the Atherva vEda are used
for wetting the head, cutting the hair, and wishing for long life, prosperity,
valor, and even progeny for the child.
The Gruhya suutraas opin that the chuuDaakaraNa of a child should be performed
either at the end of the first year or before the end of the third year of the
child. Manu dharma saastra also prescribes the same. But later authorities
extend the agen upto the fifth and the seventh year. A few authorities say that
it can be performed even in upanayana time. The acceptance of later times
suggest that ChuuDaakaraNa evolved from a real necessity to a religious
symbolism or ceremonial element. A significant body of evidence suggests that
early age is regarded as meritorious. And this holds even today.
Atri smrti says, "ChuuDaakaraNa performed in the first year prolongs life and
increases holy lustre. In the third year, it fulfills all the desires. One who
desires cattle should perform it in the fifth year. Its performance in the even
year is prohibited." Naarada smrti says, "ChuuDaakaraNa performed in the third
year is regarded as the best by the learned. In the sixth or the seventh year
is ordinary. In the tenth and the eleventh year the worst."
There are a variety of prescriptions about the time at which the ChuuDaakaraNa
could be performed. Most relate to the ability of the mother to participate in
the ceremonial aspects of the child, and the ability of the father.
Particularly prohibited times are during the menstruation of the mother and
during the pregnancy of the mother.
Here comes the real elements of the ChuuDaakaraNa. The arrangement of the top
hair or the sikha was the most important feature of the samskaara. The hair on
the top are arranged according to the family custom. The number of the tufts
are determined by the number of the pravara in the family. "The descendants of
VashishTa keep only one tuft in the middle of the head; the descendants of Atri
and Kashyapa keep two on either side; the descendants of Brghu remain without
any tuft (i.e. munDita); the descendants of Angiirasa keep five. Some keep one
line of hair and others but one sikha."
As times evolved, keeping the tuft became compulsory outward sign of merit for
the twice-born; performing religious ceremonies without a tuft and the sacred
thread is regarded as nonperformance. Some atonement is prescribed for cutting
off the tuft.
The actual ceremony of ChuuDaakaraNa evolved over time. In the beginning,
preliminary ceremonies like samkalpa, worship of Ganesha, and MangaLa sradda
weere performed. After this the mother took the child, bathed it, put on it a
new garment which had not yet been washed, put the child on her lap, and sat
down to the west of the sacrificial fire. The father, taking hold of her,
sacrificed Ajya oblations, and after he had partaken the sacrificial food,
looking at the barber he poured down the warm water into the cold one with the
words, "With warm water, come hither, Vaayu! Aditi cut the hair." He mixed a
piece of fresh butter or Ghee or some curd with the water and taking some of
it, he moistened the hair near the right ear with, "On the impulse of Savitr,
may the divine waters moisten the body in order that long life and splendor be
thine." Having disheveled the hair with a porcupine’s quill that had three
white spots, he put three young kusa shoots into it with the mantra, "Herb,
protect this child. Do not inflict pain on it." The father then took an iron
razor and with the mantra, "Thou art friendly by name. Thy father is Iron.
Salutations to thee. Do not hurt the child," and cut the hair with the words,
"I cut off the hair for long life, properly digesting food, productivity,
prosperity, good progeny, and valor. The razor with which Savitr, the knowing
one, has shaven the head of the kings Soma and VaruNa, with that ye Brahman
shave his head, in order that he be blessed with long life and may reach old
age."
Cutting off the kusa shoots with the hair, he through them on a lump of bull’s
dung which they kept to the north of the sacrificial fire. In the same way two
other tufts were chopped off silently. He cut the hair behind with the verse,
"the threefold age." Then on the left side with the verse, "by that prayer by
which mayest thou, a mighty one go to heaven, and long mayest thou see the sun:
with that prayer I shave thee for the sake of life, glory and welfare."
The head was three times shaved round from left to right with the verse, "when
the shaver shaves its head with the razor, wounding, the well shaped, purify
his head, but do not take away his life." With that the father moistened the
head again and gave the razor to the barber with the words, "Without wounding
him, shave him." The locks of hair that were left over were arranged according
to the family tradition. In the end, the lump of the dung with hair was hidden
in a cow stall or thrown in a small pond. The ceremonies ended with giving of
the gifts to the teacher and to the barber.
Thus ChuuDaakaraNa is brahminical sacrament performed for the child’s first
hair. Even today it is performed but the custom has become common across all
communities.
The dravidian racist scum and the atheist rogue elements may call any names of
the Brahmin’s pilaka but its intent and its purpose are the more benign and in
no way are intended to cause any harm to any individual.
Incidentally, in our village not only brahmins, but reddys, our caakali,
mangali, many balijas, gollas and many other elderly people used to have a
pilaka.
…kt
---------------------------------
These are just opinions. Ask not of whose they are, but ask of what they are!
god...@aol.com
>The dravidian racist scum and the atheist rogue elements may call any names of
>the Brahmin’s pilaka but its intent and its purpose are the more benign and in
>no way are intended to cause any harm to any individual.
There is no way a pilaka can cause harm to another individual but to the
self-esteem of one forced into wearing it by the parents/elders . The fact
that the pilaka on men cannot be confused with the jada of a woman gives it a
distinguishing feature. Some male priests have jadas instead of pilakas. It
all boils down to the old saying, "evari verri variki anandam" (fashion is
bliss, assuming verri translates to fashion). Even brahmins/priests had/have
fashions.
BTW, I enjoyed reading KT's quotes from hindu texts on the hair removal
ceremonies. It seems there was a great deal of fear about using sharp
appliances on one's head (rightly so). May be someone can do a study
on the IQ before and after a hair-removal ceremony. I'd think most
tonsured people are stupid. Whereas naturally balded may not be so.
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Sreenivas Paruchuri
Narayana wrote:
: On the sociology of the Brahmins pilaka
: From then on, I had this desire to explore the tonsuring of the head and the
: samskaaras associated with the pilaka. Why do Brahmins sport a pilaka? What i
: is its origin and how is it tied to the Hindu saampradaaya?
: But the concept of tonsuring the head and sporting a pilaka has its origins in
: the Gruhya suutraas of the Hindu saampradaaya. ChuuDaakaraNa, otherwise called
: the tonsure of the head, is an important samskaara. Generally chuuDaakaraNa is
Thanks to Dr. K.T. Narayana for an enlightening article on the history of
"gunDu & pilaka". The command with which Prof. K.T. wrote this piece makes
it unmistakably clear that aachaarya K.T. has deeply studied the ancient
texts of our forefathers, and refered to other scholarly studies. And it
also shows his great scholarship in "dEvabhaasha".
Let me take this oppurtunity and ask our great scholar, which has been
bugging me since some time. My (mlECCha) Professors of Comparative Religions
and Anthropology of Religions, here in Germany, narrated something about the
importance of hair in various cultures and religions. According to them, and
as per various _Lexica of religious Symbols_, hair is identified with power,
and by sacrificing it one is humbling him/herself. To a highly erudite man,
such as you, I need not tell about tonsuring (or cutting hair, importance of
hair) in Greek mythology, old testament, Buddhism etc. etc. AND on the other
side why tantrists, those Saadhu-s, yOgi-s grow long hair?!
I am sure that you 'd enlighten the SCITizens with another scholarly article
on these socalled anthropologists'/theologians' arguments.
Regards,
Sreenivas
KNaray6684
>bugging me since some time.
>My (mlECCha) Professors of Comparative Religions
>and Anthropology of Religions, here in Germany, narrated something about the
>importance of hair in various cultures and religions.
My,my! I seem to have pickled your 'commie ass'.
Did your mlEcca professors tell you about the contents of the letters that Max
Muller wrote to the Viceroy and also to his mother. In fact, one of the
paramaacaarya's of the SringEri Mutt who gave a brief discourse at the
Sunnyvale temple recently mentioned this aspect.
>According to them, and
>as per various _Lexica of religious Symbols_, hair is identified with power,
>and by sacrificing it one is humbling him/herself.
From what I read of the Hindu tradition, there is no such association of Hair
with power. The dates of some of the acaaraas, that I mentioned, are far
earlier than those you mentioned. Atharva vEda and YajurvEda are very earlier
and were for a long time orally communicated. Buddhism is a later tradition to
these. Manu dharma saastra is much older. Some put it to periods subsequent to
RigvEda because the mention of Manu occurs in the RigvEda. So, unless one gets
the chronology of the literature properly, it is difficult to make valued
assessments of influences. Out of a slave mentality, one can always say that
every thing Hindu should have been influenced by the Western civilizations. But
that is all commie stuff and no body cares for it. That is why, unless there is
a substantial evidence that a certain ritual may have been influenced by a
similar act elsewhere, it is not correct to draw inferences. And the evidence
must be found in the ritual content proper and must be concrete.
Your remark on Sadhu's growing their hair etc., is very much in place. Some
four years ago, I read some rituals of sanyaasa. Unfortunately I don't have
that reference with me. Further the reference itself had only a description of
the ritual without its literary elements, namely the mantras that go with the
ritual. Unless one has those things and the descriptions of the ritual proper
in an authoritative way, it is difficult to make a write up of the substance.
My intuition tells me, that the structure of a Saadhu's life comes from that
ritual proper. Therefore fully understanding how a person enters sanyaasa and
why a person enters sanyaasa is important. I am unable to comment on that. I
will keep your question in mind when I explore for source material. If I find
some thing, I will write it up.
...kt
Godesam
>
> >Let me take this oppurtunity and ask our great scholar, which has been
> >bugging me since some time.
> >My (mlECCha) Professors of Comparative Religions
> >and Anthropology of Religions, here in Germany, narrated something about
>the
> >importance of hair in various cultures and religions.
>
>My,my! I seem to have pickled your 'commie ass'.
If you can't keep your penchant to dig up dirt even in this apolitical thread
you started, then you are asking for commies to either remain in their
closets or make a big come back (not to say Srini Paruchuri is a commie of any
stripe I know).
>Did your mlEcca professors tell you about the contents of the letters that
>Max
>Muller wrote to the Viceroy and also to his mother.
Obviously, a lot of us don't care to read the stuff you read. So can you
summarize the content in "one line" (to quote another poster)?
>In fact, one of the
>paramaacaarya's of the SringEri Mutt who gave a brief discourse at the
>Sunnyvale temple recently mentioned this aspect.
Sounds like a pilaka groupie thing going on there. Not that there is anything
offensive.
> >According to them, and
> >as per various _Lexica of religious Symbols_, hair is identified with
>power,
> >and by sacrificing it one is humbling him/herself.
>
>From what I read of the Hindu tradition, there is no such association of Hair
>with power.
Name one hairless hindu god top down from the trinity (especially the female
ones) that is not anthropomorphic or has not been transmogrified (e.g.
Ganesh, Hanuma, etc. and the dashavatars are ruled out even though vAmana is
frequently depicted as tonsured)?
KNaray6684
>ones) that is not anthropomorphic or has not been transmogrified (e.g.
>Ganesh, Hanuma, etc. and the dashavatars are ruled out even though vAmana is
>frequently depicted as tonsured)?
The God heads may be anthropomorhic, and they must be because they are concrete
manifestations of abstract principles. So long as it is a concrete
manifestation of a human action, that long it continues to be anthropomorphic.
But there is a difference between calling an object anthropomorphic and saying
that the object principle is derived from a foreign mythology. The later is
intellectual slavery.
The vEdic people worked from two domains. They worked on the abstract and also
on the concrete. In the concrete domain, where they found that god heads of
substance could be consistently elevated to the vEdic pantheon by maintaining
the invaint principles of the abstract, they did so. In fact, that is the way
the Hindu saampradaaya worked and actually works.
But where they could not fit a particular god head, they threw it out. Your
gangaamma, ankaalamma, poleramma, etc., are this kind. Even here, to
accommodate the dEsaacara and graamyaacaara, they allowed for their existence
as kshudra shakthis but never incorporated the principle into the vEdaanta.
Given this we have to argue the following way.
If a concrete ritual manifestation is from an abstract principle and that
principle required that you cut your hair to forego your ego or power or some
thing else of substance, the vEdic people who were meticulous in formulating
the sacrificial mantraas would have captured the same in the particular
chuuDaakaraNa samskaara. Since that does not seem to be the case, we have to
discount the possibility. In fact, had that been the case, the samskaara would
be as pronounced as the upanayana samskaara.
If the concrete principle is the manifestation of a dEsaacaara, that is, some
tribal element thought that it is relinquishing the ego or power by cutting its
hair, then the vEdic people did not see a relevance for that concept. And to
the extent that the chuuDaakarana samskaara does not involve great
philosophical principles, I do not think that it is was dEsaacaara also in
those days.
One has to find an evidence that is very closely correlating to the thought
process. In any case, each ritual stands independently and its evolution and
assessment must be first done in its independent growth. If there is a
substatial evidence, then only we can bring anciliary elements like tribal gods
etc.
god...@aol.com
>The God heads may be anthropomorhic, and they must be because they are concrete
>manifestations of abstract principles. So long as it is a concrete
>manifestation of a human action, that long it continues to be anthropomorphic.
Let me rephrase my question: can you name one hindu god (anthropomorphic or
not) who resembles a balded/tonsured hindu devotee?
I must add that vAmana is shown tonsured because he was very young
when he conquered the egotistical king bali soon after his sacred
thread ceremony. I don't know what happened to vAmana after conquering
bali such as whether his hair grew back.
I never heard of a female Hindu goddess that is not hirsute.
>But where they could not fit a particular god head, they threw it out. Your
>gangaamma, ankaalamma, poleramma, etc., are this kind.
You talk as though vEdas were conceived a hundred years ago.
AFAIK, the god(esse)s you mention as not in the pantheon is only a matter
of time. Even these lesser powers for the moment are amply rewarded with
the "powerful" (some times exaggerated) anthopomorphism.
> If a concrete ritual manifestation is from an abstract principle and that
>principle required that you cut your hair to forego your ego or power or some
>thing else of substance, the vEdic people who were meticulous in formulating
>the sacrificial mantraas would have captured the same in the particular
>chuuDaakaraNa samskaara. Since that does not seem to be the case, we have to
>discount the possibility. In fact, had that been the case, the samskaara would
>be as pronounced as the upanayana samskaara.
Given all this uncertainity it seems the statement that scalp hair
(among other things) is a symbol of power is very apt. Only recently have
I seen cases of upanayana samskara done without tonsure. In fact,
I was told that one way to avoid the humility of tonsuring is to combine
upanayanam with kalyanam (marriage). No one wants to be shocked by a
groom gone totally bald within a day or week.
>One has to find an evidence that is very closely correlating to the thought
>process. In any case, each ritual stands independently and its evolution and
>assessment must be first done in its independent growth. If there is a
>substatial evidence, then only we can bring anciliary elements like tribal gods
>etc.
One way to explain the tonsuring ritual is to make the individual feel even
for a few days the eventual baldness of the male scalp with age. Fortunately,
many females don't seem to have this problem. In any case, there were no wigs
when vEdas were written, or did they?
rama.pi...@asu.edu
view of Hair being a sign of sstrength... just because Samson's strength
had to do with his hair... Beauty/looks yes... as it somehow became a
popular perception of beauty/appearance. The principle behind tonsuring
was to forego one's may-have-been good looks ;-) temporarily and as long
as this gives money to the hairstylists and the hair generates money with
wigs and 'savarAlu' ;-) this is serving a pupose more than what is stated
in the shAstrAs! Coming to Bali... read below...
god...@aol.com wrote:
: KT Narayana wrote from his hyperplane (hello earth to KT:):
...
: I must add that vAmana is shown tonsured because he was very young
: when he conquered the egotistical king bali soon after his sacred
: thread ceremony. I don't know what happened to vAmana after conquering
: bali such as whether his hair grew back.
Don't know here again if East and West are the opposites... lookslike.
Samson lost his strength with a haircut and Vamana inspite had the
strength ;-) Any ways don't know if Vamana grew hair back but after killing
Bali it was mission accomplished for God who otherwise will be like this
restaurant with no business... 'Igalu tOlukunTADu'. God seems to be the
biggest 'panileni mangali' ;-) if he didn't create the
'arrogant/egotistical' humans and every now and then descends to
eliminate the arrogance/arrogants ;-) what else would you call that?
KNaray6684
>not) who resembles a balded/tonsured hindu devotee?
This question is irrelevant, because vigrahaaraadhana as described in the
saastraas is only for the meditative purpose. If you can better meditate with
balded Sarasvati, please do so. In other words, the prescriptive norma was
meditation on a vigraha and the descriptive norma is left to your imagination.
For example, in my household in the village, my mother and my grandmother used
to spend tons of time making a braid for AanDaal for each day in the
Dhanurmaasam festivals. The activity used to consume tons of effort; growing
jasmines, tulasi, december flowers, chaamantis, kanakaambarams, sampangi etc.
We used to grow them in our household. And every day, both the AanDaal statue
and the utsavar's of the temple used to be gloriously decorated with all the
alankaarams and so on. But that came through a tradition from the times of
Ramanuja.
So whether a godhead had a bald head depends to large extent on the tradition.
>Even these lesser powers for the moment are amply rewarded with
>the "powerful" (some times exaggerated) >anthopomorphism.
I don't think that they will make it into the pantheon. There are more
fundamental reasons.
>Given all this uncertainity it seems the statement that scalp hair
>(among other things) is a symbol of power is very apt.
The 'power' concept for giving up hair is a very recent occurrence, mostly from
the legends constructed on the Tirupati temple. I know that there are many
places in the South where this practice is followed. I visited Tiruttani and
chOLangipuram temples when I was in India where I know that people tonsure
their heads. Even if they do, it is a recent phenomenon and has nothing
whatsoever to do with the Greek mythology. I don't think people who conceived
these legends were influenced by the Greek mythology. One has to be extremely
careful when trying to correlate social phenomena.
People had to remove the first hair of their children. They were doing it in
particular ways. It evolved to giving up before a deity at a piligrimage
center.
>One way to explain the tonsuring ritual is to make the individual feel even
>for a few days the eventual baldness of the male scalp with age. Fortunately,
>many females don't seem to have this problem. In any case, there were no wigs
>when vEdas were written, or did they?
But then that doesn't explain the tonsuring of female children. When I got my
daughter tonsured, I think in Tirumala, it never occurred in my mind that I was
seeing the baldness of her old age. I don't think any parent is interested in
seeing that stage of their children.
god...@aol.com
>From: knara...@aol.com (KNaray6684)
> >can you name one hindu god (anthropomorphic or
> >not) who resembles a balded/tonsured hindu devotee?
>This question is irrelevant,
An honest answer is "none or information not available." No one ever
afflicted with an inherently human physical condition/disease/deficiency
has ever been called a god, even in that pan-religious philosophy called
Hinduism.
>because vigrahaaraadhana as described in the
>saastraas is only for the meditative purpose. If you can better meditate with
>balded Sarasvati, please do so. In other words, the prescriptive norma was
>meditation on a vigraha and the descriptive norma is left to your imagination.
I don't know what you mean by meditation. If you mean a mental reflection,
then why stop with bald? Sometimes mind can get very imaginative. I guess
you are asking for tolerance towards the painter Hussein indirectly.
Pertinently, of course, all the fertile imagination has to be grounded
when building places of worship or temples as we call them. I am proud
that Indian temples are unique by projecting shorter/darker images
as idols of worship alongside the taller/lighter images. Other than that
I don't see any semblance of human condition in these gods that
project power in all aspects (the pantheon here meets the village gods
you mentioned including the calcutta kali).
>So whether a godhead had a bald head depends to large extent on the tradition.
No major religious god has a bald head <period>. Jesus Christ has the most
flowing and glorious hair one could ever imagine, to give an example in
another religion.
> >Even these lesser powers for the moment are amply rewarded with
> >the "powerful" (some times exaggerated) >anthopomorphism.
>I don't think that they will make it into the pantheon. There are more
fundamental reasons.
Rather the reasons are more mundane. We have to deconstruct hinduism
before reconstructing to include them. Since all deconstructions are going
to put us in trouble (for however brief periods) we can't risk it when
times are turbulent, what with all the technological pace. I know of
inspired music composers who bring these "lesser powers" to the consciousness
of people time and again. Notably Babas have over-taken these village
gods.
>The 'power' concept for giving up hair is a very recent occurrence, mostly from
>the legends constructed on the Tirupati temple.
Hair and divine power are as old as milk and honey. BTW, powerful humans
such as Chanakya may be shown balded. But they could never be gods.
>People had to remove the first hair of their children. They were doing it in
>particular ways. It evolved to giving up before a deity at a piligrimage
>center.
It is a good thing going until we are taught about hygiene. I want my
tonsurist (can't call him hair-stylist, can I? :) to dip the knife in
anti-septic every time. The last time I humbled myself there was no AIDS
scare. I don't think I ever want to offer my head to a tonsurist, unless
(s)he is a surgeon.
> >One way to explain the tonsuring ritual is to make the individual feel even
> >for a few days the eventual baldness of the male scalp with age. Fortunately,
> >many females don't seem to have this problem. In any case, there were no wigs
> >when vEdas were written, or did they?
>But then that doesn't explain the tonsuring of female children. When I got my
>daughter tonsured, I think in Tirumala, it never occurred in my mind that I was
>seeing the baldness of her old age. I don't think any parent is interested in
>seeing that stage of their children.
Females do go bald. It takes lot more years than male though. Also
indian women use "savarAlu and koppulu" to make up for hair loss. It is
rarely that women lose scalp hair. In recent years, we see this unfortunate
thing happening with chemotherapy.
In any event, between a tonsure and a bad hairstyle, I prefer a nice
pilaka. I heard the maintenance on a pilaka is no less easier than
a jada. So I give up on that thought.
vish_va...@my-dejanews.com
knara...@aol.com (KNaray6684) wrote:
> >can you name one hindu god (anthropomorphic or
> >not) who resembles a balded/tonsured hindu devotee?
> >Even these lesser powers for the moment are amply rewarded with
> >the "powerful" (some times exaggerated) >anthopomorphism.
>
> I don't think that they will make it into the pantheon. There are more
> fundamental reasons.
>
> >Given all this uncertainity it seems the statement that scalp hair
> >(among other things) is a symbol of power is very apt.
>
> The 'power' concept for giving up hair is a very recent occurrence, mostly
from
> the legends constructed on the Tirupati temple. I know that there are many
> ...kt
A slight digression from the above disscussion:
The 'power' concept is always an important factor determining behaviour of
people.
The practice of tonsuring widowed hindu women does shed some light on some of
the abnormalities of symbolism in a hindu society.
--
Viswanath Vadlamani
Sitaram...@zippo.com
>The 'power' concept for giving up hair is a very recent occurrence, mostly from
>the legends constructed on the Tirupati temple. I know that there are many
>places in the South where this practice is followed. I visited Tiruttani and
>chOLangipuram temples when I was in India where I know that people tonsure
>their heads. Even if they do, it is a recent phenomenon and has nothing
>whatsoever to do with the Greek mythology. I don't think people who conceived
>these legends were influenced by the Greek mythology. One has to be extremely
>careful when trying to correlate social phenomena.
>
>People had to remove the first hair of their children. They were doing it in
>particular ways. It evolved to giving up before a deity at a piligrimage
>center.
>
> >One way to explain the tonsuring ritual is to make the individual feel even
> >for a few days the eventual baldness of the male scalp with age. Fortunately,
> >many females don't seem to have this problem. In any case, there were no wigs
> >when vEdas were written, or did they?
>
>But then that doesn't explain the tonsuring of female children. When I got my
>daughter tonsured, I think in Tirumala, it never occurred in my mind that I was
>seeing the baldness of her old age. I don't think any parent is interested in
>seeing that stage of their children.
In Basava Puranam there is a story of a little girl who tells her father that
the idol, Siva, drank the milk that she offered him. He thinks that she is
telling a lie, chases her to beat her, but she runs to the idol for protection.
The Siva Linga opens up and envelopes the girl and the father who was chasing
her was only able to grab her hair. The symbolism is evident.
I am not aware of stories of this nature from times before Basava Puranam (about
11th-13th century).
Sitaramayya Ari.
KNaray6684
>the abnormalities of symbolism in a hindu society.
I know a part of this ritual. In my own village, many women used to have their
heads shaved on the tenth day of their husband's death. They used to practice
some rituals. Similarly, the nonbrahmin community also used to practice a
similar ritual called dinam and they also used to shave their women.
Unfortunately, though I was curious about these things in my childhood, I was
not allowed to see these things. In hindsight, I feel sad. There seems to be
no distinct literature on this in the references that I have. There are
references to sati but not to this practice. I will try to find out from the
purohits when I go to the Livermore temple next time.
hari_ta...@my-dejanews.com
Sitaram...@zippo.com wrote:
> In article <199809062229...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
knara...@aol.com
> says...
> her was only able to grab her hair. The symbolism is evident.
You lost me completely, sir. What is the connection ? What is evident (& where
is the evidence)?
T. Hari Krishna
Hari Tadepalli
KNaray6684 wrote in message
<199809090038...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >The practice of tonsuring widowed hindu women does shed some light on
some of
> >the abnormalities of symbolism in a hindu society.
> >Viswanath Vadlamani
was
>not allowed to see these things. In hindsight, I feel sad. There seems to
be
>no distinct literature on this in the references that I have. There are
>references to sati but not to this practice. I will try to find out from
the
>purohits when I go to the Livermore temple next time.
>
>...kt
I see three different implications here: 'there is normality in the
symbolism that men shave their heads in the Hindu society', 'there is a very
cogent explanation behind this normality' & that the 'shaving of widowed
women is an abnormal symbol'. Unless we understand what the symbolism is
about, one can not determine the abnormality about the tonsure of widowed
women is. But did not KT himself write an article sometime ago that related
the tonsuring of Hindu women to their forced possession by Muslims ? So
where is the question of finding a Vedic basis for this practice ?
T. Hari Krishna
rama.pi...@asu.edu
Men tonsured their heads to forego looks/appearance temporarily(which may
have resulted in temporary loss of POWER to the STUDD ;-)).
Widows were tonsured so that 'young beautiful widows', like Girisam would
say, were not taken advantage of. Why did OLD/elderly widows have to do
it? Beats me!
Hari Tadepalli (hari.k.t...@intel.com) wrote:
: KNaray6684 wrote in message
KNaray6684
>the tonsuring of Hindu women to their forced possession by Muslims ?
I looked at my vault of notes but could not find any of my written notes as
above. My notes on child marriages did not contain the above. So if I had typed
some notes online into the browser and not saved it, I would appreciate
receiving the full notes.
It is true though that Hindus went through a great deal of effort to protect
their women and to secure them in the face of the Muslim onslaught on their
lives.
In my notes on child marriages, I mentioned this as a cause for the reduction
in the age of a marriageable child. I think I had traced the sociology to one
of adult marriages whenever the Hindu society felt secure and comfortable to
practice its way of life.
That apart, my interest in the particular widow ritual is to assess whether its
content is indeed vEdic. This is because I have not found references to that
effect. Even Manu dharma Saastra makes a mention, on the basis of certain
criteria, of the remarriage of women.
Hari Tadepalli
KNaray6684 wrote in message
<199809090515...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >But did not KT himself write an article sometime ago that related
> >the tonsuring of Hindu women to their forced possession by Muslims ?
>
>I looked at my vault of notes but could not find any of my written notes as
>above. My notes on child marriages did not contain the above.
... My fault. I went through it again.
T. Hari Krishna
br...@my-dejanews.com
rama.pi...@asu.edu wrote:
...
> Widows were tonsured so that 'young beautiful widows', like Girisam would
> say, were not taken advantage of. Why did OLD/elderly widows have to do
> it? Beats me!
Must be out of vanity, then. :-)
My personal views.
Bapa Rao
rama.pi...@asu.edu
: In article <6t4msc$giq$3...@news.asu.edu>,
: rama.pi...@asu.edu wrote:
: ...
:
: > Widows were tonsured so that 'young beautiful widows', like Girisam would
: > say, were not taken advantage of. Why did OLD/elderly widows have to do
: > it? Beats me!
:
: Must be out of vanity, then. :-)
Naah... a decree from the Old Brahmin Brat Boys' Club, like Sid would
say ;-)
: Bapa Rao
Ramakrishna.
--
KNaray6684
> > say, were not taken advantage of. Why did OLD/elderly widows have to do
> > it? Beats me!
I don't think that the society would disfigure a woman to uphold her chastity.
There is very little substantiating literary evidence to that effect atleast in
the Hindu society. Literary evidences especially from the rituals and the
animistic religious content provide an objective cultural naunce for for the
evolution of the society; it is called a socio-religious study of the society
and its evolution. Contrast this with socio-political studies.
Death rites have been prevelant in aniministic religions too. They belong more
to personal religion. As a result dEsaacaara can play a significant role.