Sunitabaai, PuLa aani Kavitaa
Pradeep
of them (and to me, one of the most fascinating aspect of what we got
from them) was the performances they conducted together, of
appreciation of poems by such worthies like Ba Bha Borkar, Aarti
Prabhu and Baa Si Mardhekar. It was an opportunity for us to
understand the nuances of the art of poetry, and appreciate what these
poets wrote.
Recently, Sunitabaai's brother, Shradhanand Thakur handed over an
audio recording of this performance to the Maharashtra Govt for it's
archieval. I wish someone makes these available commercially, so we
can buy them. And I am afraid the master, if handed over to the Govt
agencies will perish soon, without proper care and attempts to back it
up anyway. Commercially available, the programme will at least be
preserved (if not in the form of master recording), at least in copies
in the homes of hundreds of Maharashtrians.
When we refer to PuLaa and Sunitabaai, it is this contribution that
stands forth ahead of the rest. It is a pity most of us aren't even
aware of these performances. A majority of PuLaa followers are content
with Batyataachi Chaal or Varaat!
Read an informative news clip on this in today's Loksatta:
http://www.loksatta.com/daily/20030616/raj04.htm
Should you not be in a position to read this today, it will disappear
and will be available in a fortnight's time in their archives.
....Pradeep
Dr. Jai Maharaj
take my hat off for.
KnowOne
One more reason for being indebted to a phenomenon called Pula and Sunitabaai.
http://marathiworld.com/ghadamodi/archives/03/pula.htm
Hats Off,
Sunil.
jaimah...@hotmail.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote in message news:<60def4a5.03061...@posting.google.com>...
Abhay Patil
Pune. Mr. Mohan Wagh of Chandralekha recorded it. It is now (supposed
to be) available commercially and Mr. Wagh has all the rights to it.
-Abhay
Pradeep
Thanks for the info. Please do post on this NG as soon as you get to
know about the commercial release in any form of this recital. Knowing
the way Maharashtrians would jump to grab most ordinary stuff with
great enthusiasm, but have an apathy to real good material, I am
afraid not many copies would be available for sale in the first place
and that chances of any republications would be dim, too.
....Pradeep
naniwadekar
According to Pradeep Lad, Maharashtrians 1) jump to grab most
ordinary stuff with great enthusiasm and 2) have an apathy
to real good material.
Facts of life : 1) Pu La deshpande is among the more popular
figures in Maharashtra. 2) Ramesh Mantri is paid less attention
in comparison.
Deduction - According to Pradeep : 1) Pu La Deshpande represents
'ordinary stuff'. 2) Ramesh Mantri gave us real good material
when compared to Pu La Deshpande.
- dn
rahul
> know about the commercial release in any form of this recital. Knowing
> the way Maharashtrians would jump to grab most ordinary stuff with
> great enthusiasm, but have an apathy to real good material, I am
> afraid not many copies would be available for sale in the first place
> and that chances of any republications would be dim, too.
>
> ....Pradeep
Leave it to individual persons to evaluate. I wouldn't want someone
generalizing what Maharashtrians would appreciate or despise. As for
your selfishness for grabbing your own copy, please supress your
haughtiness to put others below you in taste.
Pradeep
This is poor logic. Saying that Maharashtrians jump to grab most
ordinary stuff, and have apathy to read/appreciate good material, does
not deduce to every material that is ignored by the M masses, as being
'real good' as compared to what they jump at.
Consider only PuLa's works. Maharashtrians like to dwell on Chaal and
Varaat, and then too, the most ordinary acts amongst these (for
example, in Varaat, the Ravivarchi Sakaal, which was downright banal
stuff). But how many Manarashtrians would even like to know about the
poetry recitals by PuLaa and Sunitabaai?
....Pradeep (Lad?)
KnowOne
The Alurkar Music has released the Video CD of the 12th Jun 2003
performance by Sunitabaai. The set of 2 CD's is priced at Rs. 300/-. I
bought it yesterday and it is definitely a treat of all of us.
Grab one for yourself!!
Regards,
Sunil.
pras...@netvigator.com (Pradeep) wrote in message news:<e512a42b.03061...@posting.google.com>...
Pradeep
> Leave it to individual persons to evaluate. I wouldn't want someone
> generalizing what Maharashtrians would appreciate or despise. As for
> your selfishness for grabbing your own copy, please supress your
> haughtiness to put others below you in taste.
This is a NG, meant to carry out open debates on things Marathi and
Maharashtrian, and not your individual terriroty where *you wouldn't
want someone generalizing what Maharashtrians would appreciate or
despise*. You may argue with me on merits, not on your perception of
what should be written here and what shouldn't.
As regards my perceived *selfishness in grabbing a copy* , I am
perplexed! Here I am suggesting that I need to arrange to buy myself a
copy, owing to the very limited print order that I expect. And you
call it selfishness!!
...Pradeep
Pradeep
> Namaskar,
>
> The Alurkar Music has released the Video CD of the 12th Jun 2003
> performance by Sunitabaai. The set of 2 CD's is priced at Rs. 300/-. I
> bought it yesterday and it is definitely a treat of all of us.
>
> Grab one for yourself!!
>
> Regards,
> Sunil.
>
...Pradeep
naniwadekar
>
> Consider only PuLa's works. Maharashtrians like to dwell on Chaal and
> Varaat, and then too, the most ordinary acts amongst these (for
> example, in Varaat, the Ravivarchi Sakaal, which was downright banal
> stuff). But how many Manarashtrians would even like to know about the
> poetry recitals by PuLaa and Sunitabaai?
>
> ....Pradeep (Lad?)
>
All peoples in all eras have tended to patronise slap-dash
humour or cock-fights (whether between real cocks or one-day
cricket players in pajamas) in greater numbers than poetry
recitals. This was as true of Shakespeare's or Lillie Langtry's
England as of Tukaram's or Shanta Apte's or Dada Kondke's
Maharashtra. You have chosen a poor basis to criticise
Marathi people on. (That their taste is often trivial and
vulgar is another matter.)
PuLa's legend is based on his writings. The popularity of
his poetry readings benefitted immensely from his stature
as writer. That is as it should be. There was nothing
about the poetry readings which could have built as big
a legend as PuLa became though the readings certainly did
contribute their bit. If you find Ravivarchi Sakal banal,
your ideas about good literature or theatre must be stuffy.
That play is marvellously entertaining. Nor is there anything
wrong if Marathi people dwell a lot on BaTaaTyaachii ChaaL.
When Maharashtra Times prepared a list of 150 best Marathi
books with the help of readers or panel of excellent taste,
it selected two books by Pu La Deshpande : 'Vyakti aaNi Valli'
and 'BaTaTyaachii ChaaL'. I like Phasav-Nuk and GaNgot and
GuN Gaaiin AavaDii better than Chaal. But the popularity of
Chaal doesn't reflect badly on Maharashtrians. If some
high-brow people are stuck up with only G A Kulkarni, Aarti
Prabhu and Mardhekar as writers of 'real' merit, I would
leave them alone to indulge their taste.
- dn
bdixit
Pradeep
>
> PuLa's legend is based on his writings. The popularity of
> his poetry readings benefitted immensely from his stature
> as writer. That is as it should be. There was nothing
> about the poetry readings which could have built as big
> a legend as PuLa became though the readings certainly did
> contribute their bit.
My point is that PuLaa and Sunitabaais' poetry appreciation
performances have hardly been taken due conginsance of, by the Marathi
public.
A hallmark of a good piece of work, whether it be literary, a
painting, or in music is that it stands the tastes of space and time.
Now apply this to PuLaa's works. I would unhesitatingly put his
"Sundar Mee Honaar", "Tujhe Aahe Tujhpaashi", "Teen Paishyaacha
Tamaasha", "Phulraani" as well as his poetry appreciation performances
at the forefront. Do you think "Chaal" or "Ravivarchi Sakaal" have
that appeal today, even amongst us? I feel they are stale and (as a
hypothetical thought that, IMHO may not be far from reality, PuLaa
himself would have believed thus), are much irrelevent today. His
works as a MD also had it's own charm and a sense of freshness that is
still very much there. My problem is with people who have had the
priviledge of educating themselves formally, having a feel only for
his Chaal and Varaat, and ignoring the real good works I mentioned
above.
If you find Ravivarchi Sakal banal,
> your ideas about good literature or theatre must be stuffy.
> That play is marvellously entertaining. Nor is there anything
> wrong if Marathi people dwell a lot on BaTaaTyaachii ChaaL.
> When Maharashtra Times prepared a list of 150 best Marathi
> books with the help of readers or panel of excellent taste,
It wasn't a panel; it was a 'popular' count.
>But the popularity of Chaal doesn't reflect badly on Maharashtrians.
I have no problem with whatever popularity Chaal has had in it's own
days. My trouble is with the middle class Marathi people latching on
to just that, and not looking beyond.
>If some high-brow people are stuck up with only G A Kulkarni, Aarti
> Prabhu and Mardhekar as writers of 'real' merit, I would
> leave them alone to indulge their taste.
Spoke like a true Middle Class Maharashtrian... one who wouldn't like
to look around but would feel content with whatever little the pond
has in it for him!To quote GA writting in his story, "Manasaache Kaay,
Makadaache Kaay" way back in the 50s, "....amhaalaa samajel ase
vadjmay dya ho, amhaala umjel ase sangeet dyaa ho" No desire to go
beyond whatever scratches at the surface to moisten our eyes for a
while; no willingness to look within and around, be content with the
little ordinary works that scratch at the surface at the most. That's
why we latch onto the likes of Vapoo Kaley in droves. And ignore GA,
Vyankatesh Madgulkar, Vishram Bedekar, Tendulkar, Panwalkar and
several others. I don't expect these worthies to be 'popular' with the
masses, but it is a pity even an average educated Marathi person has
hardly ever read the works of any of these persons. They were/are
writers of a high stature and if *we Marathi people* do not appreciate
their works, who else will?
Consider comparing Marathi standards to those from Kannada, Malyalam
or Bengali. Not simply with literature; consider comparing even arts
and music, and what do you find? In literature, we do have gems (GA,
Madgulkar, Tendulkar, Sadoo Rege, Borkar, Aarti Prabhu, Vinda
Karandikar , to mention a few) but we ourselves display an abject
apathy to their works. In some other fields, (music for example) what
do we have to boast of? Except for Vasantrao Deshpande, who are all
the rest we take pride in and call them "Marathi"? Bhimsen, Kumar
Gandharva, Mansoor are from Karnataka; Lata, Asha, Kishori Amonkar,
Mogubaai Kurdikar, Kesharbaai Kerkar, Shridhar Parsekar, Jitendra
Abhisheki all hail from Goa.
Take Marathi theatre. Why did Chhabildass movement not sustain? On the
other hand, the subordinary "Sthaal Diwaankhaana" type plays abandon,
and are well patronised. After all, we would prefer watching a simple,
mushy, mushy play for three hours, eat Batatwadaas during the
interval, and leave the hall with moist eyes and lumps in our throats.
Why should we patronise Palekar, Elkunchwar, Alekar, Tendulkar (we did
go to watch Binder in droves, but that was for a different reason
altogether).
Take films. I was ashamed to know "Astitva" was so much sought after.
A very ordinary film, that was more like a typical Marathi play than a
film. All the typical elements of Marathi archetypal play were there
in abandon. I watched this film in the first Indian film festival
ever, that was organised in the place I live in by the Indian
consulate. In sharp contrast, the Kannada entry was a film by Girish
Kasarvelli ("Thaisaheb") and the Bengali one was "Paromitar Ek Deen"
by Aparna Sen!! There simply was no comparison between what they
offered and what we had to, as one of our best contemporary films !
This comparison was only an example of contemporary films on offer,
but it will not be far fetched to believe it was a very representive
one. Beyond Prabhat's ground breaking contribution, and those of
Acharya Atre and Master Vinayak, where do we stand in the national
(forget the international) film scenario?
I agree with what Bhaskar Chandawarkar said in an interview he gave to
Madhav Watave (Saptahik Sakaal, Diwali, 2002). He told Watave of his
ambition at the beginning of his career to endeavour his time and his
entire well being to Sitar. He mentioned this to a couple of people in
the field and was advised to leave Maharashtra, should be really
desire to pursue that as his full time career. This is because in
Maharashtra, arts are not much appreciated. How very true.
....Pradeep
Mahesh Velankar
>.................
> A hallmark of a good piece of work, whether it be literary, a
> painting, or in music is that it stands the tastes of space and time.
> Now apply this to PuLaa's works. I would unhesitatingly put his
> "Tujhe Aahe Tujhpaashi", "Teen Paishyaacha
> Tamaasha", "Phulraani" as well as his poetry appreciation performances
> at the forefront.
> ....Pradeep
He wrote a single play - "Tujhe Aahe Tujhpaashi".
Others were adaptations
"Sundar Mee Honaar" from "The Barretts of Wimpole Street",
"Teen Paishyaacha Tamaasha" from "Three Penny Opera",
"Phulraani" from "Pygmalion".
I am open to corrections.
-Mahesh
Pradeep
>
> Others were adaptations
>
> "Sundar Mee Honaar" from "The Barretts of Wimpole Street",
> "Teen Paishyaacha Tamaasha" from "Three Penny Opera",
> "Phulraani" from "Pygmalion".
>
> I am open to corrections.
> -Mahesh
True. Even Ammaldaar was an adaption. But the way he adopted them all,
carrying through the substance with precision, and at the same time
rooting them firmly in Marathi environment provided a good added
value. Adaption is a tough job and not everyone succeeds. Consider
"Phoolrani". Vidyadhar Gokhale's adoption of the very same Pygmalion
was a hollow effort called "Swarasamraadni". The play was made
bearable only on account of Kirti Shiledar's singing part in it.
....Pradeep
Manohar Bodas
> pras...@netvigator.com (Pradeep) wrote -
> >
>> it selected two books by Pu La Deshpande : 'Vyakti aaNi Valli'
> and 'BaTaTyaachii ChaaL'. I like Phasav-Nuk and GaNgot and
> GuN Gaaiin AavaDii better than Chaal. But the popularity of
> Chaal doesn't reflect badly on Maharashtrians. If some
> high-brow people are stuck up with only G A Kulkarni, Aarti
> Prabhu and Mardhekar as writers of 'real' merit, I would
> leave them alone to indulge their taste.
That their taste is often trivial and
> vulgar .)
The word *Their* should be replaced by *Nani's*
Batatyahi Chal was a great success as a performance. It was amazing to
see fast role changes. Especially Bhajan and Gayan.
Samorchi Tee Sarala Chitre.... Priy Sir Priya sir.... was very
humorous. Hasvnook etc were certainly good but not his best.
Dhenuvallabh the Pig's taste is *Ravikiran Mandal* as they were more
Shabdbambaal. His choice no wonder.
Acharya Atre had rightly said once: There is only one Soorya in
Ravikiran Mandal. Rest are just Kirne.
GA( was he a poet?) Arti Prabhu, (Not Khnolkar) Mardhekar are not the
Pigs choice. No wonder about it at all.
MB
naniwadekar
>
> Spoke like a true Middle Class Maharashtrian... one who wouldn't like
> to look around but would feel content with whatever little the pond
> has in it for him!To quote GA writting in his story, "Manasaache Kaay,
> Makadaache Kaay" way back in the 50s, "....amhaalaa samajel ase
> vadjmay dya ho, amhaala umjel ase sangeet dyaa ho" No desire to go
> beyond whatever scratches at the surface to moisten our eyes for a
> while; no willingness to look within and around, be content with the
> little ordinary works that scratch at the surface at the most. That's
> why we latch onto the likes of Vapoo Kaley in droves. And ignore GA,
> Vyankatesh Madgulkar, Vishram Bedekar, Tendulkar, Panwalkar and
> several others.
>
You are yet again displaying your high-brow attitude. This mantra
of 'Va Pu Kale bad-bad-bad, G A Kulkarni good-good-good' makes
no sense to me. Va Pu Kale was a gifted writer whom I have read
with lot of pleasure. Va Pu may have written lot of junk as well
but then so much of G A or Madgulkar also seems junk to me.
Any suggestion that only those readers like Va Pu who are content
with whatever little their pond carries for them is laughable.
I have taken a dip in many a pond and I still do enjoy Va Pu's prose.
His talk had its charm, too. Check out Vasantrao Deshpande's
two-cassette Alurkar release on Sangeet Natak with Va Pu as interlocutor.
> apathy to their works. In some other fields, (music for example) what
> do we have to boast of? Except for Vasantrao Deshpande, who are all
> the rest we take pride in and call them "Marathi"? Bhimsen, Kumar
> Gandharva, Mansoor are from Karnataka; Lata, Asha, Kishori Amonkar,
> Mogubaai Kurdikar, Kesharbaai Kerkar, Shridhar Parsekar, Jitendra
> Abhisheki all hail from Goa.
>
> I agree with what Bhaskar Chandawarkar said in an interview he gave to
> Madhav Watave (Saptahik Sakaal, Diwali, 2002). He told Watave of his
> ambition at the beginning of his career to endeavour his time and his
> entire well being to Sitar. He mentioned this to a couple of people in
> the field and was advised to leave Maharashtra, should be really
> desire to pursue that as his full time career. This is because in
> Maharashtra, arts are not much appreciated. How very true.
>
> ....Pradeep
You are a) confused and b) wrong. That after giving a long list of
artists who settled in Maharashtra, you claim in the next breath
that arts are not appreciated in Maharashtra indicates confusion.
Chandavarkar needs to smoke a cigarrette, wink at some lovely
Marathi girl, drink beer and chill a little.
And to suggest that only Vasantrao can truly be called 'Marathi'
is not even wrong. I suggest you spend some time acquainting
yourself with some of these names and learning about their
accomplishments : Balkrishnabuwa Ichalkaranjikar, Bhaskarbuwa
Bakhale, Keshavrao Bhosale, Govindrao Tembe, Master Krishnarao,
Sureshbabu, Hirabai, Prof Deodhar, Vamanrao Deshpande, Gajananrao
Joshi, Acharya Ratanjankar, Jagannathbuwa, K G Ginde. Many of
today's stars are Maharashtrians : Padma Talwalkar, Veena Sahasrabuddhe,
Shruti Sadolikar, Ulhas Kashalkar, Ashwini Bhide, Arati Ankalikar,
Uday Bhawalkar. Besides I don't see why Lata, Kishori, Asha should
not be considered 'Marathi'. And remember that upto this point
I haven't even mentioned two of the greatest figures of the last
century : Bhatkhande and Vishnu Digambar.
- dn
bdixit
of vocalists like Nivruttibuva Sarnaik, D. V. Paluskar, Vinayakrao
Patwardhan, Manahar Barve, Ramkishnabua Vaze, Antu Buva Joshi (father of
Gajanrao), Manik Verma, Prabha Atre, Kagalkar Buva, and several others.
Many others like Hari ji, Shiv Kumar Sharma came to Maharashtra (Mumbai)
and made their name. Calling Maharashtra as a place where classical
music is not appreciated is so wrong. That person who gave some advice
to Bhaskar Chandawarkar to leave Maharashtra must be smoking POT. Once I
was attending a private solo performance of Samta Prasad, the great
tabla maestro from Benaras. He said in his opening remarks that there
are only two places in India where classical music is really understood
and appreciated; one is Bengal and other is Maharashtra. People at other
places are "moodh." But there are people who just do not get
it.....Balwant Dixit.
naniwadekar
"bdixit" <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote -
>
> Again Nani. Your response is so appropriate. I would add the names
> of vocalists like Nivruttibuva Sarnaik, D. V. Paluskar, Vinayakrao
> Patwardhan, Manahar Barve, Ramkishnabua Vaze, Antu Buva Joshi
>
I think Vaze Buwa's family hailed from Goa. I avoided his name
because Pradeep might assign him to Goa having not just created this
needless Goa-Maharashtra divide (arguably okay in Kesarbai or
Mogubai's case) but carrying it to absurd lengths (in Lata and
Kishori's case). A name or two in my list could also be from
outside Maharashtra but the overall trend is clear. Pradeep is
acting like a person consumed by self-pity. Even if we
accept his narrow definition of 'who is Marathi' for a moment,
there is no gainsaying the region's enormous contribution to music.
- dn
bdixit
live in Pune, and almost every Saturday he used to visit one of my
father's close relative, Vaidya Puranik. My brother, who is now 80 yr.
old used to meet Vazebua almost every Saturday at Puranik Wada on
Lakshmi Road. My brother was a student of Shankar bhaiyya (I think I am
write in the name) who was a well known Pakhawaj player.....Balwant
Dixit
naniwadekar
"bdixit" <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote -
>
> Lakshmi Road. My brother was a student of Shankar bhaiyya (I think I am
> write in the name) who was a well known Pakhawaj player.....Balwant
> Dixit
>
Yes, Shankar Bhaiya was a famous Pakhawaj player those days.
If memory serves me right, there is a humorous anecdote in
Vyakti Ani Valli which mentions Shankar Bhaiya. Pu La and his
college friends manage to convince Shankar Bhaiya to play Pakhawaj
for them after a great deal of persuation. Paropakaarii Gampuu
(or is it Bapu Kane) accompanies them to the concert. By the
time Shankar Bhaiya, a famously irascible man, has tuned his
pakhawaj, Gampu has started reading a newspaper. As luck would
have it, after the first avartan, the artist lands on the sam and looks
up for daad - straight at Gampu who is reading newspaper.
There follows a temper tantrum, the pakhawaj is pushed away
angrily and the students are asked to f--- off.
Re. Vaze Buwa and Goa, here is a quote from Rajan Parrikar's
rmic post : "N.R. Marulkar's "Gomantakiya Sangeetkar" (Musicians
of Goa) contains sketches of the violin virtuoso Sridhar Parsekar,
Ramkrishnabuwa Vaze, Bapu-Tara, Kesarbai, Mogubai, Khaprumama,
Anjanibai Malpekar and many others."
It is possible that Vaze Buwa hailed from Maharashtra but spent
some time in Goa. I don't know the exact details. But he did have
some association and residency over a period in Goa. I found an
extract on Kesarbai from Bonnie Wade's book in the rmic archives.
Kesarbai is quoted as saying :
" About four miles from my village, in a zamindar's house, lived the
famous singer, Ramakrishnabuwa Vaze [Gwalior gharana]. I was taken
to him in my thirteenth year. He used to be away for about six months in
a year on his concert tour. So there were frequent interruptions, but
I managed to stay on for about three years learning from him the
rudiments of voice culture. When he left for good at the end of the
third year to further his own professional interests, I found myself
back home. "
Note - Kesarbai entered her thirteenth year in 1904; 1892 is believed
to be her year of birth.
In the late 1870s, a very young Vaze Buwa lived for a year or two
in a place named Kagal (pronounced Kaagal). Kagal is just
within Maharashtra's border in the Kolhapur area.
- dn
Pradeep
> >
> > Spoke like a true Middle Class Maharashtrian... one who wouldn't like
> > to look around but would feel content with whatever little the pond
> > has in it for him!To quote GA writting in his story, "Manasaache Kaay,
> > Makadaache Kaay" way back in the 50s, "....amhaalaa samajel ase
> > vadjmay dya ho, amhaala umjel ase sangeet dyaa ho" No desire to go
> > beyond whatever scratches at the surface to moisten our eyes for a
> > while; no willingness to look within and around, be content with the
> > little ordinary works that scratch at the surface at the most. That's
> > why we latch onto the likes of Vapoo Kaley in droves. And ignore GA,
> > Vyankatesh Madgulkar, Vishram Bedekar, Tendulkar, Panwalkar and
> > several others.
> >
>
> You are yet again displaying your high-brow attitude.
Nani has branded me as high brow in this post. In another one, in this
very thread, I appear to him as "acting like a person consumed by
self-pity." That's an obvious contradiction. If I am high brow, I
would be assaulting with contempt, anyone writting about certain
things that I feel are ordinary . I will be ridiculing such a person
by saying " he/ she has a steep learning curve ahead". I haven't done
any of these things. If I am consumed by self pity, I wouldn't write:
"...in literature, we do have gems (GA, Madgulkar, Tendulkar, Sadoo
Rege, Borkar, Aarti Prabhu, Vinda Karandikar , to mention a few) but
we ourselves display an abject apathy to their works " (and also my
references to Prabhat films).
My lament stems from the very narrow understanding educated middle
class Maharashtrians display about finer aspects of literature,
theatre and other arts. "I have taken a dip in many a pond and I still
do enjoy Va Pu's prose. His talk had its charm, too." is
representative of such an attitude. VaPau entertains, enthralls his
audiences (largly made up of MMCs [middle class Maharashtrians] for
the two/ three hours and that's enough for us to brand him as one of
our top notch authors!!
Any good author does much more than to 'entertaian' us, to draw a sob
or two for a while. Tendulkar delves deep into human psyche with his
plays; GA's tryst with destiny lasted him throughout his writting
career; Dalvi ventured into aspects of life not many even could bring
themselves into thinking of. These were three examples of our own
Marathi writers that some people would like to dismiss easily with
epithets such as 'high brow'!!
My dislike of Vapu stems from what I experienced myself from his
stories. Way back in the seventees, I read some of his stories. None
appealed to me. They were very ordinary, and didn't make any
impression on my mind. I didn't pursue his writtings any further.
Until mid nintees, when out of social complusions, I had to sit
through his story telling session. He then narrated three stories and
I found the first two, too ordinary to even remember now. The third
one, I will not forget. Because, he imformed us that was his latest
creation then (circa '95- '96). That was an opportunity for me to know
how this well known, much loved author, whom I disliked, had evolved
over a period of twenty odd years. It turned out to be another very
ordinary, long winded story. Basically, the same old stuff, MMC boy
meets MMC girl while they are in their teens. Their families have
known each other, so they get engaged officially, even as they pursue
their own careers. He has taken on the printing and publishing
business his father had built up, and she studies medicine. Then, she
gets admission to a PG course abroad. Now comes the 'poignant
movement' of the story. The heroine is just about to board the
aircraft when she takes her BF aside and says " I know, it will be
difficult for you while I am not here. Take care. Whatever you do, I
wouldn't mind but...... STAY CLEAN!!"
And the story ended on that so-called' poignant note!! To me, it
simply meant this author had deteorated further in the last several
decades, if that is what was his current lot!!
A society needs entertainers. So long as they are not pretentious,
that's fine. That's why a S.M. Kashikar or Baboorao Arnalkar is all
right with me, and so is a Baboorao Bagool. These authors have had no
pretentions to what they wrote. It was plain simple stuff, meant to
enjoy. Trouble starts when we rate one of these as our all- time
greats; when we flock to their ordinary story telling sessions with
great enthusiasm. I am not blaming VaPoo here; it is the MMC mentality
that I am faulting. True, we have taken a dip in many a pond.
Unfortunately, all those ponds were in Dombivali, Deccan Gymkhana,
Sadashiv Peth or Sitabardi. That there is life beyond, that there are
complex interplays between individuals, and between humans and nature,
between humans and destiny is not what we want to pause and think
about. We are happy staying put where we are, and ridicule our own
writers of any merit with adjectives!
.....Pradeep
Pradeep
> Calling Maharashtra as a place where classical
> music is not appreciated is so wrong. That person who gave some advice
> to Bhaskar Chandawarkar to leave Maharashtra must be smoking POT.
What matters is not what one is smoking when talking or writting or
even while teaching (Vasantrao's guru smoked pot and what fine
disciple he created?) Even when one is living on a staple diet of
'alooche phatphatey' one can nurture silly concepts and speak
nonsense. What matters is what is being said. Please let me replicate
the relevent extract from BC's interview here. The interviewer is
Madhav Vaze (MV). Excuse me for not attemnpting a verbatim
translation; the idea is to convey the substance of what BC said.
Quote:
MV: Your journey in pursuit of arts after you began taking Sitar
lessons from Ravi Shankar has been vivid, diversified and an arduous
("Pradeergh") one. But didn't you ever feel that you too should be a
sitariya like Ravi Shankar?
BC: I did feel that way. But when you say " like Ravi Shankar", it
appears you have not considered other aspects of his works. He scored
music for films. (cites Anuradha, Meera )composed for theatre and
balleys. Yes, I did nurse that aspiration to be a sitariya like him,
to be a composer like him. There is a reason why I too felt like being
a composer. In the early part of one's learning experience, one feels
like emulating one's guru. So was I doing it. May be I was doing it
even better. But people would say (of me), this person is only
mimicing his guru. So there's not much to his sitar playing. It is as
if Ravi Shankar's recording is being played back. Such attempts have a
very limited life of their own. They have no future. There isn't any
creativity to it. There was just one way out of this: to begin
composing. Secondly, many people advised me to leave Pune, and if
possible, even Maharashtra, if I wished to be a sitariya. Mumbai may
be OK, but there is no reckoning for a sitariya in Maharashtra. Your
field of work as an instrumentalist will be pretty very much limited
here. There aren't very many persons here who can discern good from
bad. And I do experience this on occassions. Not many people here
distinguish good from bad, when it comes to instrumental music. This
is the state of affairs even with the so-called connoisseurs....even
today. Extending this situation with music a bit further, not many
people here know much about dances. I wished to study them and I got
an opportunity to study as well. .....Rohinibaai (Bhatey) made
strenous efforts for years. She attempted teaching them but an average
marathi person cannot distingiush between a good dance performance and
a bad one. They cannot distingiugh between popular, cheap and classic
aspects (of dances).
Many a times, people confuse between a classical dance and a dance
from films. Even Pulaa has said this. There are many a persons who
feel natya sangeet is classical music! .....
.....
MV: Do you think this apathy to music, arts, paintings is
characteristic of only Maharashtrian society? You have, after all,
travelled a lot around the world, have been there,. seen all. So if
there is this apathy in Maharashtra, what could be the reason(s)
behind it? ...
BC: I don't feel this apathy is typical of Maharashtrians alone. Many
places have it. But in some places, educational experimentation
(shaikhasneek prayong) has created a better general awareness. We
owned a gramophone at our home, since the days of my grandfather. We
owned a radio (receiver) too. That made it possible to listen to
different types of songs ("Hey aik, tey aik")But we as a society
didn't have the economic wherewithalls to buy and own such devices
until the seventees. That's why we didn't cultivate ourselves
(sanskaar aala naahi). Compared to Maharashtra, South India had had a
better appreciation of music and dances. This applies to sculptures,
too. We are into twenty first century today. But if you ask me (to
name) beautiful tenmples of Maharashtra, that would be difficult to
tell. There are, in our country, several beautiful temples, such as
Khajuraho, Soorya mandir, Meenakshi Mandir, Parshuram mandir etc.
These temnples are replete with fine sculptures. In Maharashtra, the
Pandharpur jatra ( Vaari, Varkari sampradaay) is a big affair. But the
temple at P'pur is a very ordinary one.
Unquote
[I will post the second part of this extract in a day or two].
....Pradeep
naniwadekar
"Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
>
> Nani has branded me as high brow in this post. In another one, in this
> very thread, I appear to him as "acting like a person consumed by
> self-pity." That's an obvious contradiction.
>
Your posts were high brow a) within and b) about literature.
They reeked of self-pity c) without and b) about theatre/films.
No contradiction anywhere.
By now this thread has become tiresome. But quickly :
>
> Any good author does much more than to 'entertaian' us, to draw a sob
> or two for a while. Tendulkar delves deep into human psyche with his
> plays; GA's tryst with destiny lasted him throughout his writting
> career; Dalvi ventured into aspects of life not many even could bring
> themselves into thinking of. These were three examples of our own
> Marathi writers that some people would like to dismiss easily with
> epithets such as 'high brow'!!
>
Providing quality entertainment needs great skill, like Va Pu's.
To suggest that Va Pu does not touch heart is laughable.
Dalvi, GA and Tendulkar were not dismissed as 'high-brow',
Pradeep was dismissed so.
Dalvi and esp GA have often been utterly inspired. They
have also written lot of junk. GA and Tendulkar were/are
also big-time idiots. GA's 'tryst with destiny' resulted in him
writing repetitious stories. Never mind ...
> Dalvi ventured into aspects of life not many even could bring
> themselves into thinking of.
>
Bwahahahahaha. Dalvi's prurience can shock and impress only
a middle class Marathi like Pradeep. He could be amusing, though.
And hard-hitting. Read his article on G A Kulkarni in 'Param Mitra'
to find out what an ass GA was.
> True, we have taken a dip in many a pond.
> Unfortunately, all those ponds were in Dombivali, Deccan Gymkhana,
> Sadashiv Peth or Sitabardi.
>
What smug and silly talk!
I have devoted lot of time to Victorian literature. In fact I read
Marathi books relatively rarely.
Capacity to enjoy Shakespeare and Bade Ghulam is not mutually
exclusive with taste for Va Pu Kale's or O P Nayyar's art.
People who are stuck up with high-brow ideas talk about
limited understanding of Maharashtrians, ghoDaa-gaaDii music,
and what not. They are best ignored since no decent case
is being built in their defense. (I am using O P Nayyar as
typical example of Pradeep's attitude. I am aware he
has not mentioned O P Nayyar.)
By the way, Chandavarkar should explain why so many
been-kaars loved Maharashtra from 1850 onwards.
Instrumental music has been appreciated in Maharashtra.
He should also ask himself why South has not produced
a line of patriots like Ranade, Tilak, Agarkar, Savarkar,
Hedgewar, Ambedkar. England produced Shakespeare.
But for western musicians, we must look to Germany-Austria.
No region can have the
best of everything. Chandavarkar also seems to be consumed
by self-pity. Worst of all, he blames Marathi people for his
inability to become a good Sitar player.
- dn
Pradeep
> "Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
> >
> > Nani has branded me as high brow in this post. In another one, in this
> > very thread, I appear to him as "acting like a person consumed by
> > self-pity." That's an obvious contradiction.
> >
>
> Your posts were high brow a) within and b) about literature.
> They reeked of self-pity c) without and b) about theatre/films.
> No contradiction anywhere.
Idiotic explanation this!!! What was self pity when I mentioned about
Palekars, Alekars, Tendulkars, Vijayabaai Mehta, Prabhat Films etc??
All I am saying is the MMC attitude of self contendedness is
lamentable. I am still maintaining this, there are authors, playrights
and theatre artistes of calibre in Maharashtra. Trouble is MMCs don't
reckon them as much as they ought to.
This is not self pity, nani. It is introspection, a word you have
hardly ever heard of.
>
> Providing quality entertainment needs great skill, like Va Pu's.
> To suggest that Va Pu does not touch heart is laughable.
> Dalvi, GA and Tendulkar were not dismissed as 'high-brow',
> Pradeep was dismissed so.
> Dalvi and esp GA have often been utterly inspired.
Whom??? nani??? He tends to get inspired by Sunday newspaper column-
writers to write crap like " ...Chandavarkar needs to smoke a
cigarrette, wink at some lovely Marathi girl, drink beer and chill a
little." So nothing is lost if GA and Tendulkar didn't inspre him. To
each, his own,as they say!!!
They
> have also written lot of junk. GA and Tendulkar were/are
> also big-time idiots.
Thus said nani!!! I let it pass without comment.
GA's 'tryst with destiny' resulted in him
> writing repetitious stories. Never mind ...
>
>
> > Dalvi ventured into aspects of life not many even could bring
> > themselves into thinking of.
> >
>
> Bwahahahahaha. Dalvi's prurience can shock and impress only
> a middle class Marathi like Pradeep.
It was Dalvi who wrote a novel centred around a dwarf like person: his
worries, his anxieties, his craving for being loved. It was also Dalvi
who wrote a novel in which a handicapped grown- up person's sex
cravings have had to be satisfied by his very own mother. Yes, they
did impress me, a MMC. His novel such as Sarey Pravasi Ghadiche was
well written. I fault with Dalvi for a different reason, though.
Often, he begain well, and just as he was into developing the
potential of his characters, and events, he would suddenly get the
urge to launch into 'story telling'. That would spoil the novel. If
his works didn't impress you, that's because you have been too busy
sorting out your VaPoo foolish sob stories.
>
>
> > True, we have taken a dip in many a pond.
> > Unfortunately, all those ponds were in Dombivali, Deccan Gymkhana,
> > Sadashiv Peth or Sitabardi.
> >
>
> What smug and silly talk!
> I have devoted lot of time to Victorian literature. In fact I read
> Marathi books relatively rarely.
>
It shows up, sir, that you've hardly ever read Marathi literature and
yet have the guts to make statements about GA and Tendulkar etc.
Unfortunately, your claim of having devoted lot of time to Victorian
literature doesn't reflect in your views of the world and of yourself.
> Capacity to enjoy Shakespeare and Bade Ghulam is not mutually
> exclusive with taste for Va Pu Kale's or O P Nayyar's art.
Yes, agreed. There have been no arguments from my side about
entertainment per se, if you read them carefully. All along, I have
been maintaining that the MMCs get lost with being entertained,
ignoring anything and everything that lies beyond.
>
> By the way, Chandavarkar should explain why so many
> been-kaars loved Maharashtra from 1850 onwards.
> Instrumental music has been appreciated in Maharashtra.
> He should also ask himself why South has not produced
> a line of patriots like Ranade, Tilak, Agarkar, Savarkar,
> Hedgewar, Ambedkar. England produced Shakespeare.
> But for western musicians, we must look to Germany-Austria.
> No region can have the
> best of everything.
He doesn't doubt the lineage of social reformers that Maharashtra has
produced. (Read the extract of the interview I have posted
separately).
.....Pradeep
naniwadekar
"Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
>
> It was Dalvi who wrote a novel centred around a dwarf like person: his
> worries, his anxieties, his craving for being loved. It was also Dalvi
> who wrote a novel in which a handicapped grown- up person's sex
> cravings have had to be satisfied by his very own mother.
>
Pu La has done a great job of depicting a social dwarf's
worries and anxieties in Narayan or BolaT. But he does it
without fuss and he keeps us in splits while addressing
serious issues making his point almost imperceptibly. As for
mother and son having sex, many pornographic books
by Nancy Friday (which hostel students read) have such
scenes. There is an entry in The Marriage of Figaro in
which a woman is shown lusting for a fellow who, unbeknown
to her, is her son. Marathi 'introspective' pygmies like Pradeep
were easily shocked and impressed by Dalvi's prurience.
By the way, which novels are you talking about? You should
cite your sources clearly.
>
> Unfortunately, your claim of having devoted lot of time to Victorian
> literature doesn't reflect in your views of the world and of yourself.
>
My deepest sympathies that my posts don't tally
with your ideas (formed I know not on what basis)
about effects of Victorian literature. Your posts, OTOH,
amply reflect the amusing views of a prototypal
GA-worshipping 'introspective genius'.
- dn
Pradeep
MV: --we are [known as] people from land of stones, people with grit
{"rakat deshaa, kanakhar desha, dagdaanchya desha..."]
BC: Rajastan is full of palaces all around. They are huge and palatial
(bhavya aani sunder). We have our own shaniwarwaada. In the twentieeth
century, there wouldn't be another landmark as dilapidated as this
structure. We did embrace
social reforms (udaarmatawaad) wholeheartedly, but it is likely that
people were (too) focussed onto independence. It seems all our efforts
were directed towards it. Even in Bengal, there were revolutionaries,
they too had their own active political movement, but there was
[active and progressive] theatre, too.May be it is on account of the
patronage of the zamindars, but in Bengal, they have a better sense of
arts. We couldn't have a Tagore amongst us, there were no experiments.
The Sangeet Sabhaas in Calcutta were well known [and well appreciated]
right from the onset of the twentieeth century. Hirabaai, Kesarbaai
would participate there. Bhimsen-ji flourished in Calcutta. Doverlane
Sangeet Sabha, Tansen Sangeet Sabha, Sadanand Sangeet Sabha ......
there would be several performances [every year] after the
Ganeshostav, through winter. That enriches people. In Lucknow, even
the tangawallas recite sher-o- shayari. This calls for a nurtuting
environment. This didn't happen in Maharashtra. We didn't gain an
appreciation of arts as we should have.
MV: So, a culture that nourishes appreciation of arts didn't set in.
Isn't this frustrating for people such as Rohini Bhatey, whom we
acknlowledge to have carried out some fundamental work? [She] carried
out her mission of teaching dances despite quite some opposition.
Effectively, she created a lineage (Shishyaparampara). Yet, our art
apprectation was where it was over 50 years back?
BC: Rohinibaai need not get disheartened with this. The style she
promotes, which is kaththak, has gained some momentum. But gaining
momentum is different from gaining an understanding to appreciate
arts. We have had our own share of film momnent, and yet people hardly
ever have the wherewithal to distinguish good from bad. Whenever a
cerian entity reaches masses, it automatically gets under the
influences of market forces. And then, demand takes its own forms.
[Then] one has to pay the cost of popularity.
Unquote
[This interview appeared in Saptahik Sakaal Diwali 202 issue]
.....Pradeep
Pradeep
> "Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
> >
> > It was Dalvi who wrote a novel centred around a dwarf like person: his
> > worries, his anxieties, his craving for being loved. It was also Dalvi
> > who wrote a novel in which a handicapped grown- up person's sex
> > cravings have had to be satisfied by his very own mother.
> >
>
> Pu La has done a great job of depicting a social dwarf's
> worries and anxieties in Narayan or BolaT.
Nani, the more you write about Marathi literature, the more does your
ignorance show up. Narayan was about an ordinary chap, one who takes
the lead at all festivities in his own household as well as those
amongst his relatives.
Bolat was about a person who acts small- time female parts in old
fashioned Marathi plays and has his life a bit mixed up. There has
been no reference to a dwarf in either of them. (BTW, Alekar wrote
"Begum Barve" expanding on this very theme of male actors doing female
parts in plays and getting their lives mixed up).
But he does it
> without fuss and he keeps us in splits while addressing
> serious issues making his point almost imperceptibly.
An avid reader of Victorian literature that you are, you would be well
aversed in the difference between the forms of a caricature and a
novel, I suppose?
I don't quite understand what this "without fuss business" is all
about.
As for
> mother and son having sex, many pornographic books
> by Nancy Friday (which hostel students read) have such
> scenes. There is an entry in The Marriage of Figaro in
> which a woman is shown lusting for a fellow who, unbeknown
> to her, is her son. Marathi 'introspective' pygmies like Pradeep
> were easily shocked and impressed by Dalvi's prurience.
Do you understand what you wrote? Or in your usual enthusiasm to
rattle off names, you went off tangent and brought in some reference
that fits into the description even so remotely? I referred to Dalvi's
novel in which this mother KNOWINGLY offers herself to her son, who is
a grown up retard, living in a chawl in Mumbai and has to have his
lust satisfied. I am not referring to the pornographic aspect of it at
all. It is the tragedy of growing up a retard in a middle class family
that he touches on. But you may find this hard to comprehend. Your odd
references may make your posts 'spicy' (so you think) but apart from
distractions, they add up to nothing.
Besides, I am referring this in the context of Marathi literature,
showing Dalwi touched upon a topic that fellow writers may not even
think of. By the way, Dalwi was also obsessed with mad persons or
persons with psycological disorder. Several of his characters display
such tendaicies, and that makes interesting reading.
>
> By the way, which novels are you talking about? You should
> cite your sources clearly.
The one about the dwarf as the protagonist who goes by the name of
Shiwa Otawaney, is a novel called Swagat. (Monologue) I don't remember
the name of the second one.
>
>
> >
> > Unfortunately, your claim of having devoted lot of time to Victorian
> > literature doesn't reflect in your views of the world and of yourself.
> >
>
> My deepest sympathies that my posts don't tally
> with your ideas (formed I know not on what basis)
My view of the world is of compassion and as far as I am concerned,
one of introspection. This is something that you would mock at. I
would find it hard to write stuff like "have taken a dip in many
ponds." You write it with aplomb and move on!! Howewver, if I were
ever to take a dip in many ponds such as you have, I would be wisened
to try and understand, and learn from others.
Throughout the entire debate, all you have done is
(a) kept referring to GA, Tendulkar etc as having written junk etc.
without any substantiation whatsoever. This need not have been 'your
opinion v/s my opinion' type of debate if it had to be a meaningful
one. That could happen if we presented our points with critique of
works of authors being named. I attemnpted to do this, for VaPoo, and
summarised it for GA, JD and Tendulkar. All you have done in response
is to make snide references to my so-called "GA worship". And yes, of
course, drop irrelevent names (Nancy Friday) etc, as is your wont.
(b)side- stepped the main point I made: viz. MMCs don't look beyond
the entertainment aspect of performances or literature. You kept
harping upon how great an entertainer VaPoo is and PuLaa is; you
spiked up your posts with unnecessary referenes to how a Ustad's gayan
and OPN's songs can be enjoyed without contradictions.
I rest my case for others to judge.
....Pradeep
P.S.:
Let me get back for a while to what this nani-rattle started with. I
wrote in this thread: "Knowing the way Maharashtrians would jump to
grab most ordinary stuff with great enthusiasm, but have an apathy to
real good material, I am afraid not many copies would be available for
sale in the first place
and that chances of any republications would be dim, too."
I enquired about the Sunitaabaai recital VCDs in Mumbai and they
aren't available there. Apparently Alurkars have printed a very
limited number to start with. Also, a few months back, I was looking
for a copy of Shantata Court Chaloo Aahe. Enquiries at major book
shops in Mumbai drew blank. Eventually, I have had to get it
photocopied from the personal copy a friend owned.
naniwadekar
"Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
>
> Do you understand what you wrote? Or in your usual enthusiasm to
> rattle off names, you went off tangent and brought in some reference
> that fits into the description even so remotely? I referred to Dalvi's
>
Instead of looking at differences, you should look at similarities,
if any, between case x and case y. Dalvi can start with a case
where the specifics may be different and then mould them
to suit his set-up. But you are incapable of comparing any
two cases. Your hang-ups keep interfering.
>
> The one about the dwarf as the protagonist who goes by the name of
> Shiwa Otawaney, is a novel called Swagat. (Monologue) .
>
IF this is the novel in which the protagonist's mother sleeps
with a hotel owner who keeps scratching his arm-pits,
there is nothing particularly deep about the novel. Please
remember that IF at the beginning of my last sentence
carefully since your comprehension skills are terrible.
>
> My view of the world is of compassion ....
>
Bwahahahaha. Cheap talk. I have heard this 'compassion'
talk from Phoolan Devi, Sitaram Kesri, and now Pradeep.
An aside - Dalvi had a genuine compassionate side to him.
He once visited my house in Nagpur. (I was away in Pune.)
While everybody else enjoyed all the social sweet-nothings
talk, Dalvi ignored most of it and spent all his time talking
to my grandfather. He said old people tend to get left out
because the younger ones are too busy with their own life.
Other 2-3 writers who were with him were not the type
to think of this angle.
>
> Let me get back for a while to what this nani-rattle started with. I
> wrote in this thread: "Knowing the way Maharashtrians would jump to
> grab most ordinary stuff with great enthusiasm ...
>
You are the perfect example of these shallow Marathi
middle-class people. They may grab ordinary stuff like
Ramesh Mantri and you grab GA and Dalvi. I am not
saying there is no difference between the two but the
difference is not as big as you think and similarities are
quite big. But when you look for differences, you get
too busy to remember similarities. And when you look
for similarities, you forget about the differences. So good
luck with your tirades and your comprehension skills.
- dn
naniwadekar
>
> In Lucknow, even
> the tangawallas recite sher-o- shayari. This calls for a nurtuting
> environment. This didn't happen in Maharashtra.
>
Now it is Chandavarkar's turn to wallow in self-pity.
Whole of UP suffers from stultifying atmosphere.
Tangewallas think only about Shahrukh Khan and Madhuri
Dixit. This is true in Chennai and New York and every other
place where Indians live. It is certainly true of Lucknow.
Chandavarkar's warped view of 'Lucknow good-good-good,
Pune bad-bad-bad' is laughable. Of course he can depend on
nuts like Pradeep to believe his junk talk.
Any child who is not demented knows that Maharashtra
is among the more active centres of culture in India.
Kolkata and Chennai are also good. But Lucknow?
It only has Mayawati, Mulayam, 100-200 ministers
and their priviledged cars and their illiteracy.
> ... and yet people hardly ever have
> the wherewithal to distinguish good from bad.
>
Actually, people do have the wherewithal to distinguish
Ravi Shankar's sitar from Bhaskar Chandavarkar's.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
Well no point in arguing with this Pig Nani. It is evident what sort
of Marathi literature this illiterate reads. Va Pu of Vapurza is one
of the most boring writers in Marathi. No wonder the Pig is fond of
him. His taste is certainly seems have been developed the way he was
brought up. I am sure many have noticed the way he bluffs about his
knowledge. Many more have exposed him for giving completely wrong and
misleading information.
He is talking about GA as a man and not what he wrote. No wonder the
Pig can only see what is around It. It is obvious he has hardly read
any of Dalvi. Arti Prabhu and Khanolkar are two different people for
him. I don't know if he has ever even heard Yere Ghuna. Perhaps he has
read only CTK's plays.
There is one beautiful Lekh by "Kimayakar" on GA. I am certain the Pig
has not heard the book Kimaya. About the ignorance of the pig less
said better. It was worthwhile reading about his posts on Vasantrao.
The Swar winks, the listeners blink, the onlookers sneeze and Nani
farts. The entire post was uninformative and the reader is left
wondering what exactly this idiot wanted to say. He should read a post
about a report on Dr. Kahadilkar's concert and learn something.
I can only say no one has seen a biger Kodga and Kaangaokhor person
than this Pig
MB
ps.
Let me know Dhenuvallabh if you know who wrote Kimaya. I will let you
know after 24 hrs. Till then start brown nosing for info
Pradeep
Thus, Marathi literature missed the opportunity to get a graphic
account of one more psychic case at the hands of JD. But nani's posts
on this and other NGs have given us a glimpse of what it is like:
pompous attitude, self delusion of being an all- knowledgeable ("have
taken a dip in many ponds!"), a craving for grabbing attention through
attempted chutzpah, irrelevent talk, and yet the obvious underlying
feeling of not being respected for the so-called knowledge!!
....Pradeep
naniwadekar
"Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
>
> But nani's posts
> on this and other NGs have given us a glimpse of what it is like:
> pompous attitude, self delusion of being an all- knowledgeable ("have
> taken a dip in many ponds!"), a craving for grabbing attention through
> attempted chutzpah, irrelevent talk, and yet the obvious underlying
> feeling of not being respected for the so-called knowledge!!
>
You have lost all sense of balance.
I have taken a dip in many (not all) ponds. And taking a dip
is not the same as swimming like a fish in any deep water.
Anybody with half a brain (you do need at least that, though)
can see that I am part of ongoing discussion on the music forums
and Pradeep's fantasies that 'Nani doesn't get respect' (bwahaha)
and 'he has underlying feelings about it' (myaaaNoooo) just
bespeak his frustrations that others see Emperors with no clothes
where he sees Gods.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
> "Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote -
> >
> > But nani's posts
> > on this and other NGs have given us a glimpse of what it is like:
> > pompous attitude, self delusion of being an all- knowledgeable ("have
> > taken a dip in many ponds!"), a craving for grabbing attention through
> > attempted chutzpah, irrelevent talk, and yet the obvious underlying
> > feeling of not being respected for the so-called knowledge!!
> >
>
> You have lost all sense of balance.
>
> I have taken a dip in many (not all) ponds. And taking a dip
> is not the same as swimming like a fish in any deep water.
>
> Anybody with half a brain (you do need at least that, though)
> can see that I am part of ongoing discussion on the music forums
Well the Pig has spoken. After getting "Mother of beating "
The shameless attitude will continue and all others keep themselves
entertained. Nanu read my post about Ram Rangi Rangile. Yyou write
Ram Rangi Rangiile. You do not even know the song. I don't blame you.
You are a Pig head after all
Bill Gates Sucks "bzshri"
sense to me), is the fight between "Deshastha and KokaNastha"
There was one more reference on this NG or on RMIC about Puneri Bhatjees and
about their being cheapskate.
This is another quality of Bhatjees, who will fight (though world may not
want you fight, or so does God) but they can't just quit.
(Ref: Pu La -- Asamee Asa mee -- reference is about konkanee bhatjees and
similar are puNeree). If this was fight was one on one, say for instance in
Sadashiv Peth Pune 30, Nanivwadekar and Bodas live in the same "Wada" (can
someone please explain what this is? With my limited ability in english, I
am unable to explain), this fight could have been more intense.They would
have talked about each other's mothers and sisters in foul language and
exchanged verbal fires daily pretty much in the same manner as does India
and Pakistan. Naniwadekar looks like a Deshastha surname and Bodas sure
"Peshwaii" KokNastha.
Is this really a fight of "D" principles and "K" principles? or just because
you are PuNerees? Enlighten us guys..
--BZShri
naniwadekar
"Bill Gates Sucks "bzshri"" <nospam...@gr8-ou812.com> wrote -
>
> Ignoring all what both of you are saying (since most of it does not make
> sense to me), is the fight between "Deshastha and KokaNastha"
>
What does that sentence mean? You are getting more and more
idiotic every passing day.
You need to learn the difference between discussion and fight.
First of all, the discussion was between me and Pradeep.
Manoo Bodas was just poking his nose in and being ignored.
I have cordial relations with Pradeep but they don't exclude
strong exchange of views if we happen to differ on certain points.
You are free to call it 'fight'.
Whether I am a Konkanastha or not is immaterial. I have
nothing but the deepest love and the highest regard for
Ks, Ds, Maratha-s, Kunbi-s. Only cheap people like 'bzshri'
(the pathetic idiot) think in these casteist terms.
Am I from Pune? Yes and no. Is Bodas from Pune? Yes
and no. Only cheap people like 'bzshri' (the pathetic idiot)
think along these lines. Indians have been making fun of
each others' caste, place, state, food, music for centuries
but underlying it is fundamental mutual respect.
> If this was fight was one on one,... They would have
> exchanged verbal fires daily pretty much in the same manner
> as does India and Pakistan.
>
That you have the guts to trivialize the enmity between
India and Pakistan and compare it with humourous
accounts of fights between Brahmins shows what an
idiot you are. Indians are getting killed every day thanks
to ISI and its agents, our jawans are having to defend
difficult terrain in the most trying conditions against a
barbaric enemy. And you think it is a 'cheap' fight
involving only 'verbal' fire? Fuck off and slink back into
your bz-hole, bz-shri. You are a shameless idiot.
- dn
Bill Gates Sucks "bzshri"
Come on this was not some racial remark on bramhin and non-bramhin, but
tried to represent some the qualities qualities. Aren't they true?
>
> That you have the guts to trivialize the enmity between
> India and Pakistan and compare it with humourous
> accounts of fights between Brahmins shows what an
> idiot you are. Indians are getting killed every day thanks
> to ISI and its agents, our jawans are having to defend
> difficult terrain in the most trying conditions against a
> barbaric enemy. And you think it is a 'cheap' fight
> involving only 'verbal' fire? Fuck off and slink back into
> your bz-hole, bz-shri. You are a shameless idiot.
>
>
And so you are the one who would write anything to prove your point.
The important element of Indo-Pak comparison was "daily fores" and
no way of underestimating the tough fights Indian soldiers have to put
up with.
What are you licking Pradip for? Are you trying to cover the ground
and get in good books of someone? "Raajkaaran?"
Callling me "fucking and idiot" does not indicate that your upbringing
and cultural nourishment has been good. I can very easily respond to
your "slurry" language using equally bad words, but I will not as that is
not my nature and doesn't suit my fashion sense.
But as regards your stupid fights (oh sorry, discussions using foul
language)
with Bodas (and Pradip, though you have some relations with him and many
others), that is definitely disgusting. You put up a poor show, and if you
think
you are having intellectual debate, then no you are not. Do you understand?
And you didn't answer are you a K or D?
--LZ'n'BZ
naniwadekar
> and get in good books of someone? "Raajkaaran?"
>
Idiot bzShri - If getting in Pradeep's good books was my aim,
I would never have disputed his opinions so strongly.
> Callling me "fucking and idiot" does not indicate that your upbringing
> and cultural nourishment has been good.
>
I believe in using the kind of language best suited for any setting.
And 'idiot' is an apt term to describe you.
>
> And you didn't answer are you a K or D?
>
Stupid man, you don't even sign your name straight and you
demand to know whether I am Konkanastha or Deshastha?
My caste or sub-caste is no business of yours. I am Hindu
and I am Indian and other matters are of little significance.
Slink back into your bz-hole now. Every time you open your
mouth, you make a fool of yourself.
- dn
Bill Gates Sucks "bzshri"
> I would never have disputed his opinions so strongly.
>
That's the thing DN. Are you trying to cover up disputing with him
vigourously?
Try to understand point and try to be sensible before you flash out your
opinion.
I would advise you to read any post twice, before you start typing your
reply.
>
> > Callling me "fucking and idiot" does not indicate that your upbringing
> > and cultural nourishment has been good.
> >
>
> I believe in using the kind of language best suited for any setting.
> And 'idiot' is an apt term to describe you.
>
I don't even mind you calling me F* and whatever. More so that shows your
class,
when you agree that this is your "language best suited for any setting". Can
you
please post the way you talk to your superiors, colleagues, parents and
spouse?
Some readers who fancy reading this kind of material would love it and I
promise
you to read it.
> Stupid man, you don't even sign your name straight and you
> demand to know whether I am Konkanastha or Deshastha?
> My caste or sub-caste is no business of yours. I am Hindu
> and I am Indian and other matters are of little significance.
Last post was full of foul words, this time you use less of bad words. Nani,
you are
already imporving. Can I credit this to the "cultural renewal awareness"
paragraph
in my last post?
DN here is a advise for you:
1. Read any post twice (and thrice, if you are dumb) before posting reply.
2. Try to be nice and do not use foul language -- Some people can be more
creative
than you in this dept.
3. Accept the fact some people know more than you.
4. Make a habit of reading the NG only once a day, boy you seem to be always
"on vacation"
Or is this a place where you let out your frustrations with life.
4. And finally tell us if you are a K or a D? This is not racial or
non-Hindu or any of those
"you-hate" crap. Just accept here whatever you are. Now I am curious
than ever...
-LZ'n'BZ
Ashish Athavale
> you are PuNerees? Enlighten us guys..
>
> --BZShri
Pu La written & recording the Mumbaikar, Punekar Ki Nagpurkar which
was funny. What you think of Marathi people in general. Are they
funny? And also are they high brow or low bro? Please tell us your
knowledgeable view.
A.Athavale