Pakistanis torture Indian Soldiers to Death
14thcentu...@my-deja.com
such barbarities happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these mind-numbing
barbarities happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan border.
Indian soldiers who were captured by Pakistanis and Islamic Mujahids
(Islamic religious soldiers) in the on-going war in Kashmir, were
tortured to their deaths this way.
This came to light, when their mutilated bodies were handed back to the
Indian authorities.
(Source: The Times of India, dated 11th June 1999)
This not only violates the UN charter, but goes against the all norms of
civilized behaviour.
Why do Pakistani troops behave this way?
The answer lies in the Quran (quoted here with chapter and verse) which
says:
- Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. (The Cow: 15 )
- The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful, who will not
believe. (Spoils of War: 55)
- Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find
harshness in you. (Repentance: 123)
The world should wake up to the barbarism, that is sanctioned in the
Quran and work to destroy Islam which takes its motivation from the
Quran.
All non-Muslims should get together to destroy Islam before it is too
late. If Islam is victorious, the human species will be pushed back to
Savagery.
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
asho...@my-deja.com
understand any other language than that of power, strength and unity.
Once they realize the consequences of their actions then only they will
not dare to act again in the same way.
In article <7jrdl0$k5b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Tulsidas19
Cowards and SICK people.
Jai Hind! Jai Bharat Mata!!
Tulsidas
<14thcentu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7jrdl0$k5b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Khan
wrote:
>Eyes being gouged out, genitals being cut, limbs being hacked - when did
>such barbarities happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these mind-numbing
>barbarities happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan border.
This is pure bull, tell us did an independent body eg. UN observers
recieved those dead dogs? You have no proof you are full of shit as
always.
Tulsidas19
http://www.indiaabroadonline.com/headlines.html
The Clinton Administration is trying to confirm the veracity of reports that
the bodies of six Indian Army personnel handed over by Pakistan were
mutilated and disfigured. A senior administration official told India
Abroad: "We find this report disturbing and, if true, reprehensible." The
report comes at a time when the Clinton Administration has been getting
angrier by the day over Pakistan-backed infiltration of Indian territory
across the Line of Control (LOC). Sources said that only days earlier, a
National Security Council meeting of top officials dealing with South Asia
had sifted through evidence and found Islamabad culpable. This was reflected
in a briefing on Tuesday by Bruce Riedel, President Bill Clinton's Special
Assistant and Director for Near East and South Asia at the NSC. Riedel said
the LOC was inviolable.
Tulsidas19
http://www.timesofindia.com/today/12edit1.htm
The return of the mutilated bodies of six Indian soldiers on the eve of the
Pakistani foreign minister's visit to New Delhi raises a number of important
questions for this country. According to the international media, Pakistan
has disowned responsibility for this act of barbarism. Even worse, there has
been no expression of regret or apology from those commanding the Pakistani
Army. All over the world, the uniformed fraternity observes normal
courtesies and considerations even during active hostilities. By their
action, complicity or silence, however, Pakistan's generals have disgraced
their own uniforms. Even now, Army men in India recall with appreciation the
gesture of General Ayub Khan who promptly informed General Cariappa that his
son -- an Air Force pilot who had been shot down over Pakistan in the 1965
war -- was safe. Ayub Khan even offered to release him but General Cariappa
turned down that offer on the ground that he did not want any discriminatory
favours for his son. How the Pakistan Army has deteriorated since those days
34 years ago. The genocidal killing and rape it indulged in in Bangladesh
was the beginning of its brutalisation. Then came the long period of martial
law, which gave the Army in Pakistan an unlimited license to suppress civil
liberties and oppress its own people. Along with that, the Pakistani Army
got involved in Afghanistan. During that war, Russian prisoners were
subjected to the kind of brutalities now being inflicted on Indian soldiers.
The Pakistani Army also trained mercenaries who subsequently spread all over
the world as extremist warriors. Wherever they have gone, these
extremists -- known as `Afghanis' -- have committed similar brutalities. As
a general practice, the `Afghanis' in Algeria slit the throats of children,
women and men whenever they attack a village. India is aware of the
unspeakable atrocities these elements inflicted on innocent Kashmiris,
including the Pandits, who were ethnically cleansed from the valley. This
steady brutalisation of the Pakistani armed forces -- and of the mercenaries
they trained -- has been accompanied by Islamabad's loss of control over
both the army and the organisations of marauding terrorists financed by the
narcotics trade. The present barbarism displayed towards Indian prisoners is
the result of this degeneration in the norms and discipline of the Pakistan
Army and the total lack of democratic scrutiny. India is not dealing with a
disciplined force proud of its uniform and its soldierly code of conduct.
When he arrives in Delhi on Saturday, Mr Sartaj Aziz has to be asked whether
his government is in control of its army and whether that army is a
civilised and disciplined one. Since this act of barbarity is proof that
those who have intruded on to our soil and are operating across from the
Line of Control are not men who respect the laws of humanity or war, they
will have to be treated as bandits. Mr Aziz has to convince India that the
government of which he is a member is in a position to deliver the goods
following any agreement. At the present moment that is in grave doubt. It is
only because of India's extraordinary generosity and commitment to peace
that civilised courtesies are being extended to Mr Aziz and talks being held
with him.
Tulsidas19
PTI / New Delhi
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
For the parents of 22-year-old Lieutenant Saurabh Kalia, hope against hope
turned to despair and his mother suffered a heart attack when the news of
their son's death in Kargil was finally confirmed.
In fact, his parents received his first salary notice from the bank with the
news of his death on Wednesday.
There was hope when Lt Kalia's mother received a letter from her son dated
May 10 after reports came in that he was missing since May 5, but it was
short-lived and turned into despair after the badly mutilated bodies of the
six valiant soldiers, including Saurabh, were handed over by the Pakistani
authorities on Wednesday, 26 days after he was captured, sources close to
the Kalia family said here on Friday.
Army authorities had earlier said that Lt Kalia and his men went missing on
May 5, but later it was reported that the incident occurred on May 14, four
days after he wrote to his mother saying he was "fine" and she should "not
worry".
The revelation that Lt Kalia and the five soldiers were tortured in the most
barbaric fashion, perhaps for several days, before being killed has only
added to the shock to the family.
The six bodies were brought here late on Thursday night from Kargil and the
autopsy was conducted. The findings of the autopsy were not yet known, army
sources said.
A shocked and angry nation learnt on Thursday that the soldiers had their
eyes gouged out, their genitals, ears and noses had been chopped off during
captivity and their bodies bore numerous marks of cigarette burns.
Family friends of the Kalia's said here: "Lt Saurabh was a cheerful little
kid who could not hurt a fly. Look at what they have done to him and that
too without any provocation as he was captured several days before the
military operation started in Kargil."
His younger brother Vaibhav is being "extremely brave" and trying to take
care of his family as they come to terms with the tragedy, they said after
speaking to Lt Kalia's family in Palampur, Himachal Pradesh.
"We don't want to cry as that would be an insult to Saurabh's sacrifice,"
19-year-old Vaibhav said, adding, "We only hope whatever cause Saurabh laid
down his life for is taken to its logical end."
"He had been commissioned on December 12 last year. We never dreamt that he
would not be able to complete even six months in service. We expected him to
come home to celebrate his first birthday as an officer on June 29," Vaibhav
said.
Lt Kalia and his men went missing after they had gone on a patrol on May 14.
Radio Skardu in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir had reported the six soldiers had
been captured.
Sources in Lt Kalia's unit told PTI that the officer had volunteered to go
on the operation in the best traditions of the army. Members of his unit
never realised that was the last time they would see him alive, they said.
"What has happened to the Indian soldiers in Pakistan is the entire
responsibility of that country. Besides, the bodies were handed over by the
Pakistan authorities themselves," an external affairs ministry spokesman
said here.
Jai Shree Ram
Tulsidas
Tulsidas19
Tulsidas19
Pamela Bhagat
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
Sepoy Dilip Singh of 18 Grenadiers cannot speak coherently. He can't see
the world clearly or move his limbs easily. On 27 May he suffered gunshot
wounds as a consequence of which he has lost an eye, had his left hand
amputated and has a broken jaw. Yet whenever he comes out of the drug
induced stupor, all he wants to know is, "Kya Adhikari saheb mil gaye?" (Has
Maj Adhikari been found?). No one has had the courage to tell him that his
Company Commander is no more and that his body is yet to be retrieved.
Sepoy Dnozolia of 1 Naga wants revenge. He is 20, fluent in English and best
known for his perpetual smile. When he set out on 25 May as part of the
Alpha Company to secure a mountain feature, little did he know that by
nightfall he would be in hospital with splinters in his legs and both hands
amputated. Havaldar Vishnu Prasad of 18 Grenadiers, is a veteran of many
operations being a member of the crack SAG (Special Action Group). A couple
of months ago he was in Manasbal on an operation against militants when Maj.
AP Singh lost his life to a rocket attack and he also suffered splinter
wounds.
After recovering, instead of going home on leave, Havaldar Prasad rejoined
the Regiment for operations in the Kargil sector. On 28 May he again
suffered gunshot wounds and splinter injuries that blasted the flesh off his
left leg. In this condition he walked for six hours to Mattayan for safety.
The enemy out there is no motivated rabble. They are trained and toughened
professional soldiers of the Pakistan Army, with excellent state of the art
equipment and with the added advantage of being well entrenched on strategic
heights. Their marksmen can target a lit beedi at night. For us the odds are
very high but then we are not only brave and strong but battle hardy too.
Any true Indian would have liked to slither into the enemy stronghold in a
heliborne operation and attack them with a dagger. But the present battle is
of planning, recce and strategy. It is a battle of commanders. We do not
lack equipment, motivation, training or leadership. Still we are at a
disadvantage. It is the element of readiness and surprise that sometimes
plays against us. But with honsla (patience) and protsahan (motivation) we
can overcome that too.
Havaldar Dayal Singh of 10 Garhwal Rifles belongs to Rudraprayag and has
seen action in Manipur and Srinagar during a counter insurgency operation.
He can't control his rage when he remembers the action in which one jawan
died and eight were wounded in a platoon of twenty four. "On 10 May we were
asked to establish a post on a feature that was 14,000 ft high. Because no
one can climb like a Garhwali as it comes to us naturally, we were chosen
for the job. And since we have no problems in going up to Badrinath,
Kedarnath or even Gangotri, we could easily overcome this feature," he says
with a sense of pride.
He continues, "We reached our objective in less than the stipulated time and
opened our radio set to inform the unit. Promptly after that the enemy
jammed our lines and relayed a return message in Punjabi. I am the
Commanding Officer of the Sikh Regiment. We have already cleared this post
so you should now move to the neighbouring feature. Unsuspectingly we fell
into the trap and on reaching the next feature after three days of hardship,
we faced a firing squad.
One boy got a bullet in the middle of his forehead and that was the first
time I saw instant death. He couldn't even say 'Ma'. We opened fire and
continued firing till the enemy stopped advancing. They probably thought we
were many more than our actual number. It is just our himmat that saved us".
Dayal was one of the first battle casualties.
Sepoy Tejinder Singh of 8 Sikh is well on his way to recovery after major
surgery to remove splinters from his leg and chest, which he sustained on 27
May. At 20, he hasn't been away from Gurdaspur for long but the mere mention
of his mother brings tears to his eyes and a lump to his throat. He hasn't
even written home as yet about his battle wounds. He just wants to go home
and surprise them.
Captain S Ashok of 1 Naga is 26, loves playing volleyball with the troops
and is a computer buff. There is pride in his voice when he speaks of the
agility and stamina of the hill tribes in his Regiment. He and his boys set
off from Drass on 24 May for an overnight climb to occupy a certain feature
that was reported to be occupied by five to ten enemy soldiers. After a ten
hour walk they faced a strength of thirty. In the exchange of fire they
killed seven enemy soldiers. "We saw them fall and then there was no fire
from that side. They were all in Pakistani military uniform. We also
encountered soldiers in black pathan suits. With patience and strategy, this
battle is ours. How long can they sustain themselves in isolation?"
Ashok led his troops from the front and suffered grave injuries. He had
liver lacerations due to splinter injuries and has been on the respirator
since surgery. His twin sister calls up everyday from Chennai to tell him
how proud the family is of their tough Naga. There are many more of these
brave soldiers who speak of an enemy strength far greater than appreciated,
of operating in the glaciated terrain without acclimatisation, of a burning
desire to attain objectives, of managing for long periods without food and
water because despite carrying loads of 40 to 50 Kg per head, their priority
is ammunition not food. They often eat ice to quench their thirst and carry
one sleeping bag between three, taking turns to sleep.
What these soldiers and many more like them regret the most is the hardship
they face in retrieving a wounded or a dead colleague. The enemy watch the
area like hawks because they know that an Indian soldier will never abandon
his colleague. The Indian soldier will suffer any privation as long as he
knows that he has the love and support of a grateful nation and that his
sacrifice will not go unsung.
Jai Shree Ram
Tulsidas
Tulsidas19
Varuna Verma / New Delhi
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
There was no room for tears and grief at the 218 Medium Regiment grounds on
Friday. It was a send-off for our heroes, all six of them.
The brave Lt Saurav Kalia and five other soldiers of the Jat Regiment not
only fought the enemy but also withstood the ignominy heaped on them. Bugles
and rifles rent the silent afternoon air as the warriors began the last
journey to their hometowns, where they are to be cremated.
The wreaths, flowers and condolences could not compensate for the pall of
gloom that hung over the occasion.
Although hot and sultry, officers and soldiers were in all their uniformed
finery as a mark of respect for the deceased. They stood in a queue awaiting
their turn to lay wreaths on the tricolour-wrapped coffins.
They all knew of the horrifying news that Lt Saurav Kalia and his men had
been butchered to death. But the Indian Army obviously teaches its soldiers
not to break down. Or to reveal emotions in public. True to their word, the
officers and soldiers maintained a stoic composure as they laid their
wreaths, saluted the brave and observed a two-minute silence.
Even family members of the dead soldiers were sombre and composed as they
watched the proceedings from the background. Not a tear fell from their
eyes. not a word passed their lips.
Lt Kalia's brother, Maj Sudhir Kalia, said, "I am very proud of my brother.
He has done our family proud. Saurav was a vivacious, gregarious and
energetic young boy. After he got commissioned into the Army, he asked me
which regiment he should opt for. He was extremely excited about becoming a
full-fledged Army officer and looking forward to serving the nation. His
services will be remembered for years to come and I hope that his barbaric
murder is avenged."
But it is not going to be easy to erase the memories of how these six
soldiers were done to death. That they were tortured, their eyes plucked out
and their ears, nose and genitals slashed is going to haunt our soldiers and
countrymen for years to come.
The mutilated bodies of Lt Saurav Kalia, Sep Arjun Ram, Sep Banwar Lal
Bagaria, Sep Bhikaram, Sep Moola Ram and Sep Naresh Kumar were handed over
to the Army by the Pakistanis on June 9.
The post-mortem revealed that they had been tortured and butchered
mercilessly to death.
Among those present on the occasion included Defence Minister George
Fernandes, Vice Chief of Army Chief Lt Gen Chander Shekhar, DG Infantry Lt
Gen AS Rao and GOC Delhi area Maj Gen SK Awasthi.
Jai Shree Ram
Tulsidas
Tulsidas19
Pioneer News Service / New Delhi
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
The preliminary post-mortem analysis has revealed that the six Indian
soldiers, including a young Lieutenant, were tortured most inhumanely for
over a fortnight -- their skulls smashed, eyes gouged, legs shattered --
before being shot.
The cause of death, the report revealed, was shock and haemorrhage caused
mainly by fire arm injuries.
All the injuries were ante mortem -- inflicted before their death.
External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh on Friday said the soldiers were
subjected to repeated torture by the Pakistani troops.
Lt Saurab Kalia of 4 Jats was on a patrol with his five men in the Kaksar
region of Kargil sector on May 14 when they were ambushed by Pakistani
troops and taken across the Line of Control.
In the custody, the Pakistani authorities used most heinous methods to
torture them. Injuries on the bodies show that their eyes were penetrated
with sharp objects; there were compound skull fracture, some had loss of
brain tissue and there were multiple fractures on the back and shoulder.
All were shot thereafter; one soldier was shot in the mouth, the report
revealed.
The post mortems were conducted at the Western Command Base Hospital, Delhi,
in the presence of two independent observers -- a representative from the
Indian Red Cross and the Head of the Department of Forensic Sciences,
Safdarjung Hospital.
External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh said Pakistani authorities had all
along been denying that they had captured any of our soldiers. On May 25,
exactly 11 days after they had captured the six soldiers, Pakistan Director
General of Military Operations told his Indian counterpart that they had
Indian prisoners of war. The Indian DGMO had requested him to treat the PoWs
as per the Geneva Convention.
On June 9, the Pakistani authorities handed over the mutilated bodies of the
six soldiers to a detail from 10 Garhwal Rifles at Post 43. The Pakistani
team included an officer and a Havildar Major besides others.
The bodies were wrapped in sleeping bags and kept in coffins.
aa...@hotmail.com
14thcentu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Eyes being gouged out, genitals being cut, limbs being hacked - when
did
> such barbarities happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these
mind-numbing
> barbarities happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan
border.
>
There is nothing Islamic about it,
Punjabis have a history of mutilating the bodies of "thier" enemies
eg just 2 weeks ago in Karachi, they took the eyes out and cut
the testicles of a Mohajir:
http://www.dawn.com/daily/19990531/top15.htm
http://www.jang-group.com/jang/may99-daily/31-05-99/topst/main.htm
--
Karachi wala
Tulsidas19
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
The Clinton Administration's principled stand on the intrusion in the Kargil
sector by regular Pakistani troops and mercenaries trained by Islamabad,
contrasts sharply with its earlier tendency to tilt almost automatically
towards Pakistan in the latter's disputes with India. This refreshing change
in the United States's attitude is all the more heartening because it has
happened despite New Delhi's criticism-no doubt justified-of the NATO's
bombing of Yugoslavia. It clearly reflects the US's growing disenchantment
with the Nawaz Sharif Government for its failure on the economic front,
crackdown on the media, attacks on the judiciary and harbouring of fanatical
Islamic terrorists. It also reflects skillful Indian diplomacy, particularly
Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh's persuasive articulation of India's stand on
the nuclear issue during his prolonged interaction with US Deputy Secretary
of State Strobe Talbot. Whatever the reason, one hopes that what appears to
be a new and enlightened US understanding of India's role and compulsions,
proves a turning point in the relations between the two countries.
There is no reason why such a development, which will strengthen the cause
of world peace and benefit both countries, cannot come about. Apart from a
shared concern for democracy and freedom, and the increasing scope for trade
and investment, created by India's progressive opening up, there is a common
threat which should bring them closer. This is the rise of Islamic
fundamentalism with its fanatical and obscurantist worldview which, as
exemplified by the conduct of the Taliban, represents a gross distortion of
Islam, tends to confine women to domestic slavery and seeks to establish a
claustrophobic theocratic order. Not only is Islamic fundamentalism
ascendant in Pakistan, the latter is dotted with Islamic schools which
indoctrinate youth in fundamentalist theology, and operates a number of
training camps, both in its own territory and Afghanistan, for terrorists
and insurgents. In the wake of the terrorist attacks on US embassies in
Kenya and Tanzania last year, the US had retaliated with missile strikes on
terrorist camps run in Afghanistan by the notorious Osama bin Laden.
Islamic terrorists have struck within the US as well, while they have been
the main striking arm in Pakistan's proxy war against India. Combating them
must, therefore, be a common goal of both countries. As the first step,
every effort should be made to restrict arms and money supplies to them.
Since Pakistan is their main provider of arms, this would mean discontinuing
arms supplies to it. Besides, arming Pakistan would also mean increasing its
capacity to prolong its proxy war against India and mount intrusions into
its territory. This makes it imperative for the US to ensure that the waiver
clause in the Brownback amendment is not used to resume military sales to
Pakistan.
Otherwise, not only Indo-US relations, but both India and the US will suffer
greatly.
chaddha
I personally feel this is handiwork of Kashmiri militants, who are fighting
a suicidal battle, on the mountain tops.
But, what I don't understand is, why Paki army would return the bodies, in
this state ?
It is also possible the Kashmiri militants were trying to use them as
hostages to get their people released from Indian custody. The Indians
refused and they were killed.
Tulsidas19 <tulsi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7jrrln$2fp$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net...
chaddha
Nightmare23 <night...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3761B48F...@hotmail.com...
> They were captured by Pakistani boarder
> guards, not the other Pakistanis holed
> up on Kagril trying to pose as kashmiris.
I am convinced the guys doing the fighting are die-hard kashmiri
militants, well supplied by Pakistani army in logistics. I don't think there
are enough Paki regulars who would freeze their asses at 20,000 feet and
fight a suicidal battle. It's gotta be the kashmiris who really want to
liberate kashmir.
Their level of motivation is bad news for the Indian army.
> No need to cook up tall tales. Every
> dumbwit Pakistani already knows who mutilated
> their body parts. Its an islamic tradition.
>
> This is in line with the sick and perverted
> islamic mentality which promotes barbarity
> against non-believers (kufrs) for the glory
> of Islam.
>
> Nightmare23
Nightmare23
guards, not the other Pakistanis holed
up on Kagril trying to pose as kashmiris.
14thcentu...@my-deja.com
Here are a few more verses. There are hundreds of such verses in the
Quran:
- (Quran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he
hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and
Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise. Now enjoy
what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo!
Allah is forgiving, merciful."
- (Quran 69:30-37) When you capture an unbeliever (non-Moslem) "Take him
and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then INSERT HIM IN A
CHAIN WHEREOF THE LENGTH IS SEVENTY CUBITS. Lo! he used not to believe
in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched.
Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which
none but sinners eat."
- (Quran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and
His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they
will be killed or crucified, or HAVE THEIR HANDS AND FEET AND ALTERNATE
SIDES CUT OFF, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their
degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful
doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that
Allah is forgiving, merciful."
- (Quran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers)
are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But AS FOR THOSE
WHO DISBELIEVE, GARMENTS OF FIRE WILL BE CUT OUT FOR THEM, BOILING FLUID
WILL BE POURED DOWN THEIR HEADS. WHEREBY THAT WHICH IS IN THEIR BELLIES,
AND THEIR SKINS TOO, WILL BE MELTED; AND FOR THEM ARE HOOKED RODS OF
IRON. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they
are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of
burning."
- (Quran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes
and a blazing fire."
Absolutely sickening! And there's more of it in the Quran. The point is,
Moslems today not only swear by all the above, but also practice it.
In article <7jsaf3$1...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>,
"chaddha" <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Who could have done this?
> I personally feel this is handiwork of Kashmiri militants, who are
fighting
> a suicidal battle, on the mountain tops.
> But, what I don't understand is, why Paki army would return the
bodies, in
> this state ?
> It is also possible the Kashmiri militants were trying to use them as
> hostages to get their people released from Indian custody. The Indians
> refused and they were killed.
>
14thcentu...@my-deja.com
Here are a few verses from the Quran the influence the Muslim psyche.
And there are hundreds of such verses in the Quran (I have read it all):
Hence it was not at all surprising to read about eyes being gouged out,
genitals being cut, limbs being hacked. And when did such barbarities
happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these mind-numbing barbarities
happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan border when the
Pakistanis and Muslim Mujahids tortured Indian Soldiers to Death.
And what's wrong with all this? After all the Quran, by which the Muslim
swear, sanctions such behavior.
Hence an attitude which is based on the Quran can have no place in
civilized society. And as long as there are humans who swear by this
inhuman barbarism of the Quran, there can never be lasting peace on this
planet.
Hence the only way friends to give the Devil of Islam his due is by
ultimately facing the sad but inevitable specter of a Thermonuclear
Neutron War with all those who swear by the Quran. A war that will wipe
out all of 'em who not just believe in but translate into heinous deeds,
the Quranic instructions to kill, mutilate and murder.
There is no question of going in for hand-to-hand combat with these
brutes. There is self-delusion and the possible danger of
self-destruction in procrastination - remember the our experience with
the Nazis.
Hence in the interests of human civilization, we have to someday face
the unwelcome prospect of treating with Neutron the entire segment of
population that believes in and implements sub-human Quranic
prescriptions. We'll have to someday start with nuking Mecca and Medina
- the hotbeds of terrorism called - ISLAM.
If we have to save ourselves, our liberty and all that's good in human
civilization; before they do us in; then we'll have to remember what an
American patriot said: "The tree of freedom has to be watered with the
blood of tyrants."
14thcentu...@my-deja.com
with the Pakistani regulars.
All of the same blood-thirsty Islamic breed.
It is high time you Indians woke up to what you are up against. Carry
the war to a victorious conclusion not just into Pakistan, but also
into Afghanistan - right up to the Iranian border. And dont get into
wishy-washy compro with these die-hard murderers. If you do, you are
only delaying the final showdown and you will pay a heavy price
for your procrastinate.
We did the same mistake in Europe.
A war of annihilation against Nazi Germany in 1938 also sounded equally
desperate to the peace-mongers like Neville Chamberlain when he bartered
away Sudeten to the Nazis and sacrificed the Czech for the sake of a
spurious peace.
That leniency brought upon us the six year long World War II.
The same ostrich-like spirit of self-delusion led to the letting off of
Saddam in 1990, when the UN forces stopped short at Kuwait after having
trounced the Iraqis. They should have gone on to Baghdad and on to
Kurdistan to see the end of Sa'damn - one face of Islamic terrorism and
followed it up with upsetting the fanatical regimes in Algeria, Libya,
Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and of course Saudi Arabia!
That leniency brought upon us the World Trade Center Bombing and the
blowing up of two of our embassies. I frankly believe that we didn't
give 'em back enough by the missile strikes on Sudan and Afghanistan.
The same self-delusion marks the US/British intervention in Kosovo to
save the Moslems. The denizens of the Whitehouse and Whitehall want to
show their Moslems allies in the house of Saud, that they can do the
global policeman's job impartially. Phooey!!
No sensible policeman is impartial between a victim and a murderer (read
Non-Muslims and Islam)!
The same farcical attitude marked the visit of your PM Vajapi to
Pakistan, some months back in a trans-border coach. The whirlwind of
which he is reaping the form of the mutilated bodies of his soldiers
with their eyes gouged out by the Pakistani and the Moslem Mujahids in
Kashmir!
Why are the Muslims like the Nazis; and that too for the last 1400
years?
Because the source of their motivation the Quran is quite like the hate
mongering Mein Kamph of the Nazis.
The Moslems have to go down the way the Nazis did. No other way out
buddy.
In article <7jscjg$3...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>,
"chaddha" <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Nightmare23 <night...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3761B48F...@hotmail.com...
> > They were captured by Pakistani boarder
> > guards, not the other Pakistanis holed
> > up on Kagril trying to pose as kashmiris.
>
> I am convinced the guys doing the fighting are die-hard kashmiri
> militants, well supplied by Pakistani army in logistics. I don't think
there
> are enough Paki regulars who would freeze their asses at 20,000 feet
and
> fight a suicidal battle. It's gotta be the kashmiris who really want
to
> liberate kashmir.
> Their level of motivation is bad news for the Indian army.
>
> > No need to cook up tall tales. Every
> > dumbwit Pakistani already knows who mutilated
> > their body parts. Its an islamic tradition.
> >
> > This is in line with the sick and perverted
> > islamic mentality which promotes barbarity
> > against non-believers (kufrs) for the glory
> > of Islam.
> >
> > Nightmare23
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > chaddha wrote:
> > >
> > > Who could have done this?
> > > I personally feel this is handiwork of Kashmiri militants, who
are
> fighting
> > > a suicidal battle, on the mountain tops.
> > > But, what I don't understand is, why Paki army would return the
bodies,
> in
> > > this state ?
> > > It is also possible the Kashmiri militants were trying to use them
as
> > > hostages to get their people released from Indian custody. The
Indians
> > > refused and they were killed.
>
>
Tulsidas19
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_366000/366701.stm
Indians are following the Kashmir conflict on the Internet
By BBC Correspondent David Willis
Cricket is one battlefield for arch-rivals India and Pakistan, but a more
serious battle is currently taking place between the two countries over
Kashmir.
For three weeks now, India has been pounding targets in the Himalayas in an
attempt to quell what it describes as an armed occupation of its land,
backed by Pakistan.
But the present conflict is different to many others that have taken place
between the two countries, because it is being fought not just on the
battlefront, but through the media - and particularly through the Internet.
A young Indian displays a message to frontline troops
Down a dusty side street in Delhi, past a row of beggars and a beauty
parlour, next to a car repair shop and down in the basement - lies one of
the mushrooming number of 'Internet cafes' in Delhi.
Many young Indians have been stopping by to send e-mails to troops on the
frontline.
One of them, Geeta, tapped out her simple message. "God bless you, you the
children of our motherland who are defending our country. God will reward
the righteous and will be with you to fight against the enemy. God is
Great," she wrote.
Harry Herren, the manager of this cyber café, says other customers are
simply seeking the latest information from the battlefront.
"It is like being there. They can see better photographs, the kind that are
not available in newspapers are easily published on the web," he said.
There are other uses as well.
"A lot of Indians living in the US have started collecting money for people
affected by the war, all through the Internet," he said.
Information is power
India has been holding Nato-style briefings
Such a free flow of information has put new pressure on those whose job it
is to explain the government's position.
India has been holding Nato-style daily briefings to drive home its version
of events.
They are chaired by senior civil servant Raminder Singh Jassal, who has
become well aware that Information is power.
"It is a weapon depending on how you use it. You can abuse it for purposes
like Pakistan has done. Or you can use it to reiterate the actual situation
and to reassure the people that this is what has happened and this is how we
are dealing with it," Mr Jassal said. "Information is important."
Battle of the airwaves
The audience for news is phenomenal across the vast country. State
broadcaster Doordarshan reaches up to 600 million people, whilst newcomer
Star - which recently launched a 24-hour news channel on cable - is
gradually building its own audience.
Senior Star TV correspondent, Vikram Chandra, says presenting one's case on
television is going to become more important in the next few years.
"Indians have always been information junkies to some extent and even in the
smallest villages you will find people surprisingly well-informed, not just
about local issues but state issues, national issues and once in a while
even international issues," he said.
In the Intemet café, more messages were tapped out to the troops in Kashmir.
"We are praying that you'll return victorious and make us proud to be
Indians," read one.
For the first time in the long history of the conflict between these two
nations, the electronic media - and particularly cyberspace - may well make
all the difference.
Tulsidas19
http://www.expressindia.com/news/16308699.htm
NEW DELHI: Noisy demonstrations, black flags and badges greeted Pakistan
Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz when he arrived here today for talks on the
Kargil issue with his Indian counterpart Jaswant Singh. The resentment of
millions of Indians was echoed outside the Pakistan High Commission as
thousands of people belonging to various walks of life held a massive
demonstration against Pakistan's naked aggression in the Kargil Sector and
the barbaric killing of six Indian jawans, reports PTI.
"Sartaj Aziz don't forget the defeats of 1965 and 1971," "Pakistan
Murdabad", "Pakistan respect human rights and stop barbaric and inhuman act"
read several placards held by the protestors. The demonstrators, who
included teachers, politicians, women and children, condemned Pakistan's
'nefarious act' and said "India had the means to teach Pakistan a lesson for
sending intruders in Kargil".
The noisy and charged-up demonstrators tried to march to the Pakistan High
Commission breaking the police barricade and burnt several effigies of
Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Aziz. Before Aziz arrived, some
30-odd people belonging to a Sikh organisation staged a noisy demonstration
holding black flags and wearing black badges near the Indira Gandhi
International Airport. They shouted slogans denouncing Pakistan's support to
armed intruders in Kargil sector.
Tulsidas19
http://www.expressindia.com/news/16309499.htm
BANGALORE: Pakistan must be punished for inflicting the 'most inhuman kind
of torture' on captured Indian soldiers, Commerce Minister Ramakrishna Hegde
said today. Addressing a function organised to celebrate the birth centenary
of Field Marshal K.M. Cariappa here, Hegde said India will be able to flush
out the Pakistan intruders in a week or so but cautioned that the country
should be vigilant. "Pakistan cannot be trusted," hegde said, reports PTI.
chaddha
<14thcentu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7jsr9n$2s8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> The fighters are Islamic Mujahids from Afghanistan all hand in glove
> with the Pakistani regulars.
>
You mean they are not Kashmiris who are fighting for Kashmir liberation ?
How come Indians don't want to admit that. Who else would die in suicidal
battles at 20,000 feet.
michi...@my-deja.com
IMHO Advani is King and Atal is queen.
In article <7js7ns$tcd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
aa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <7jrdl0$k5b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> 14thcentu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Eyes being gouged out, genitals being cut, limbs being hacked - when
> did
> > such barbarities happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these
> mind-numbing
> > barbarities happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
> >
>
> There is nothing Islamic about it,
> Punjabis have a history of mutilating the bodies of "thier" enemies
> eg just 2 weeks ago in Karachi, they took the eyes out and cut
> the testicles of a Mohajir:
>
> http://www.dawn.com/daily/19990531/top15.htm
> http://www.jang-group.com/jang/may99-daily/31-05-99/topst/main.htm
> --
> Karachi wala
>
Momin
14thcentu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The fighters are Islamic Mujahids from Afghanistan all hand in glove
> with the Pakistani regulars.
>
> All of the same blood-thirsty Islamic breed.
>
> It is high time you Indians woke up to what you are up against.
Yes, but this would mean that these Banyas would have to spend
time away from their check-books and petty quarrels. It is not
hard to guess that history tends to repeat itself. Perhaps explains
why Ghazni was so successful in all his raids. Facing hundred different
fractured groups than one consolidated enemy probably made his
job one heck a lot easier. Look at these gutless wonders in Delhi.
While their soldiers are getting churned in the meat grinder in
Kargil, these bastards are busy trying to consolidate their
positions for the forth-coming elections and trying to chase
pakis away with war of words. None of them have guts to
take the decision to open couple of new fronts and give
Kargil some slack .....
> Carry
> the war to a victorious conclusion not just into Pakistan, but also
> into Afghanistan - right up to the Iranian border. And dont get into
> wishy-washy compro with these die-hard murderers. If you do, you are
> only delaying the final showdown and you will pay a heavy price
> for your procrastinate.
Well, when the dhotis have decided never to cross LOC no matter
how strong the shelling gets from the Paki side, what are the odds
of this ever happening....
Removing the cancerous tumor at Kargil is no guarantee that the cancer wont
re occur. One has to go to the origin and wipe the cancer once for all for
a subsequent peaceful life...
Momin
asho...@my-deja.com wrote:
> India must retaliate to such barbaric actions. Some people do not
> understand any other language than that of power, strength and unity.
What power, where is the strength and what unity are we talking about??
>
> Once they realize the consequences of their actions then only they will
> not dare to act again in the same way.
>
chaddha
Momin <mo...@momin.com> wrote in message news:3762A7BF...@momin.com...
>
>
> asho...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > India must retaliate to such barbaric actions. Some people do not
> > understand any other language than that of power, strength and unity.
>
I am sure Indian security forces have done a lot of that to Kashmiri
militants in Kashmir. They are just getting back.
R.S. Minhas
Nightmare23 wrote:
>
> They were captured by Pakistani boarder
> guards, not the other Pakistanis holed
> up on Kagril trying to pose as kashmiris.
MUZ_SLAYER
It is not too late exterminate this root cause of all evil. Koran is the
dictum of the evil Satan, preached as that of gods. Beware. Beware."
R.S. Minhas wrote in message <37643E27...@yahoo.com>...
Parijat Bhatnagar
>
> On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:31:28 GMT, 14thcentu...@my-deja.com
> wrote:
>
> >Eyes being gouged out, genitals being cut, limbs being hacked - when did
> >such barbarities happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these mind-numbing
> >barbarities happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan border.
>
> recieved those dead dogs? You have no proof you are full of shit as
> always.
>
During the autopsy, two people from independent bodies were present.
This is the proof.
> >
> >Indian soldiers who were captured by Pakistanis and Islamic Mujahids
> >(Islamic religious soldiers) in the on-going war in Kashmir, were
> >tortured to their deaths this way.
> >
> >This came to light, when their mutilated bodies were handed back to the
> >Indian authorities.
> >
> >(Source: The Times of India, dated 11th June 1999)
> >
> >This not only violates the UN charter, but goes against the all norms of
> >civilized behaviour.
> >
> >Why do Pakistani troops behave this way?
> >
> >The answer lies in the Quran (quoted here with chapter and verse) which
> >says:
> >
> >- Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. (The Cow: 15 )
> >
> >- The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful, who will not
> >believe. (Spoils of War: 55)
> >
> >- Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find
> >harshness in you. (Repentance: 123)
> >
> >The world should wake up to the barbarism, that is sanctioned in the
> >Quran and work to destroy Islam which takes its motivation from the
> >Quran.
> >
> >All non-Muslims should get together to destroy Islam before it is too
> >late. If Islam is victorious, the human species will be pushed back to
> >Savagery.
> >
> >
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
--
*********************************************************************
Parijat Bhatnagar
412, William Browning Building,
University of Utah,
Salt Lake City,
Utah - 84112, USA.
E-Mail: bha...@mines.utah.edu
Fax: +1-801-581-4937 (Work)
Phone : +1-801-581-6386 (Work)
+1-801-532-2570 (Home)
*********************************************************************
chaddha
Parijat Bhatnagar <bha...@mines.utah.edu> wrote in message
news:37669F...@mines.utah.edu...
> Khan wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:31:28 GMT, 14thcentu...@my-deja.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Eyes being gouged out, genitals being cut, limbs being hacked - when
did
> > >such barbarities happen? In the middle ages? No sir, these mind-numbing
> > >barbarities happened a week back at Kargil on the India-Pakistan
border.
> >
>
> This is the proof.
>
>
Tulsidas19
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/16air.htm
Ranvir Nayar in Paris
Israel is using the current Paris Air Show to target India as a major
destination for the export of its military-industrial products. After the
United States and the United Kingdom, Israel has the largest presence at the
air show, occupying a huge area at the Le Bourget airport.
''We have an entire range of products that could interest India. We have
some of the best air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, radars and
advanced ammunition, besides communication systems and night vision
capabilities. These are the systems that India is on the look out for. And
we would be very much interested in exporting these to India,'' said
Brigadier General Kuti Mor, deputy director general in the Israeli ministry
of defence.
He claimed that Israeli defence equipment was among the best in the world
and hence had a good chance of developing new export markets.
Last year, Israel exported defence goods worth nearly two billion dollars,
of which only a fraction were for India.
As part of their product promotion, the Israelis specially invited the vice-
chief of the Indian Air Force, Air Marshal Naqvi, to visit their facility at
Le Bourget. Air Marshal Naqvi was shown around the entire pavilion and later
also held extended discussions with his Israeli counterparts.
Brigadier General Mor told rediff.com that while his country was very
satisfied with the current state of relations with India -- formal
diplomatic ties were established in the early 1990s -- there was scope to
improve it further.
''We would like to see wider, and if I can call it that, deeper, relations
with India. We are expanding our relationship and moving towards a more
extensive co-operation with India in the defence sector,'' he said.
Israel is particular about developing a relationship in the research and
development sector. ''Ìndia has great experience in a wide variety of R & D
and we would like to have some exchanges with them in that sector. There can
be very useful two-way exchange between India and Israel in these areas,''
the brigadier general says.
The main focus of the Israeli exposition at the Air Show is on three primary
sectors -- the aircraft upgrades that Israel has successfully carried out on
the Romanian MiG-21s, the communication, night vision and radar systems and
the advanced munitions.
Eighteen Israeli companies are participating in the air show. Then there are
the pavilions taken up by the Israeli defence ministry and the Sukhoi design
bureau, which incidentally has worked wonders in upgrading the basic Russian
design..
Actually, it is in this respect that Israel would like to entice India. The
IAF needs to upgrade its vast fleet of MiG-21s, MiG-27s and MiG-29s and
Israeli expertise can come in handy there.
The Israelis say though they lost out to the Russians in the previous race
for the upgrading programme of MiG-21s, they are hopeful of bagging more
orders in the near future.
They hope to get Air Marshal Naqvi interested enough to be able to convert
that into commercial orders later on.
''Air shows are not the place for bagging deals. This is the place where you
just display what you have and generate customers interest. Orders can be
bagged later on,'' Brigadier General Mor exclaims.
Tulsidas19
Giri Deshingkar
Director, ICS, New Delhi
http://www.ipcs.org/issues/articles/056-usr-giri.htm
Indians have a weakness for Westerners-any kind-management gurus,
economists, and diplomats, giving their opinions on what Indians should do.
And Westerns oblige by doing precisely that when they are lecturing in
India. The latest is Professor Samuel P. Huntington, who holds several
important positions in Harvard University.
Huntington's thesis was put forward in his Clash of Civilizations and the
Remarking of World Order. It has been critically commented upon ever since
it was published as a book in 1996, and before that when it appeared as an
article in Foreign Affairs. The Indian media has focussed on his recent
advice to India that, as a civilization with no cultural affinities with
others, it should buy protection against a "possible" future clash of
civilizations with China allying itself with the United States. The
assumption on which Huntington's sage advice is based is that China will
emerge as a hegemonic power in Asia. India will simply have to accept
Chinese leadership when it makes its Asian cultural assertion vis-à-vis the
US-led Western assertion in Asia. Huntington's scheme foresees no clash
between the Indian and US-led Western civilizations.
Large ideas and large assumptions. They are entertaining as abstractions to
be manipulated as word play. But when it comes to policy-making, even
Huntington has to descend from the abstract level of civilizations to the
concrete level of nation-states. So, he speaks of "core states" representing
civilizations. At this level, he will find few takers for his ideas. Is the
US the core state of the Western civilization? Or is it the emerging
European Union? The two entities show serious disagreements with states in
the Islamic civilizational area and China. Closer home, what would be the
constellation of circumstances that will persuade Pakistan or Bangladesh or
Sri Lanka to accept India as the core state of the Indic/Indian
civilization?
Surprisingly, Huntington uncritically accepts the "China threats" scenario
presented in the US media. This is something that has yet to find acceptance
in US academic circles. For someone dealing with the concept of
civilizations, Huntington presumes much too easily that China is, and will
be, like any other European state, i.e. it would be competing for
leadership, exercising hegemony, and using military force against others in
its civilization area to assert its hegemony and leadership. This is not
Cold War thinking: It goes right back to the 16th and 17th century Europe.
Clearly Huntington still believes in a world of grand alliances positioning
themselves on the world chessboard. Hence his advice to India to join the US
in an alliance against China.
Non-aligned neutrality, Huntington says, will add to India's loneliness. But
civilizations, by definition, are lonely, unique, isolationist entities.
They are self-contained and interact with others only on their own terms.
Throughout its history, China has been self-isolationist, and it still shows
extreme reluctance to join alliances. India's non-alignment has been given a
political interpretation, but there is a strong sub-stratum of
civilizational/cultural preference in it. It is only in the case of the
Semitic civilizations that the proselytizing streak in them, which erupts
from time to time, made them engage in civilization conflicts to impose an
order on the rest of the world.
No, Professor Huntington, India will be comfortable with its loneliness. Its
two hundred years of proximity with the West was not particularly rewarding.
In contrast, the Indian and Chinese civilizations have coexisted for two
thousand years with only rewarding contacts. The thirty years of tensions
between them cannot be called a clash of civilizations. Contrary to the view
accepted by some in India that India and China are competing for the
leadership of Asia, each has its own definition of Asia where the other
exists only on its periphery, and a comfortably distant periphery at that.
No danger of subordination therefore, and even less danger of a civilization
clash.
Tulsidas19
Americans' health is India's business
http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/99/Jun/16/front_page/INDI16.htm
By Shankar Vedantam
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
BANGALORE, India - Dunkin' Donuts or Duncan Donuts? Traumatic or dramatic?
Waded or waited?
In this booming, bustling city halfway around the world from Philadelphia,
dozens of people are trying to master Americana and that Yankee accent.
They aren't planning to visit: They are medical transcriptionists who sit
before computers and type up patient reports from American doctors.
Taking advantage of Internet speed and the day-night time difference between
India and the United States, they type up dictation from doctors while
America sleeps and ship it back electronically by morning.
Outsourcing the transcription work to India also offers a cheaper way to get
it done.
"It is a global world we live in," said Pat Forbis, a spokeswoman for the
American Association for Medical Transcription, of Modesto, Calif., which
represents U.S. transcriptionists. "Technology does not stop at the border."
"There's more work than transcriptionists in the U.S. can handle," she said
of the industry estimated to produce revenues up to $20 billion a year.
"There are a quarter of a million people in the U.S. doing this work, and it
is not enough."
Doctors in the United States generate voluminous patient reports - updates
on condition and treatment - in part so hospitals can bill insurance
companies. The records help in patient care and also in protecting hospitals
against potential malpractice suits.
Because well-trained English-speaking labor in India is cheap, a spate of
companies have set up shop in this high-tech city that is sometimes called
the Silicon Valley of India.
"American MT's make twenty [thousand] to forty thousand dollars a year,"
said Ajit Virk, managing director of Healthscribe India, the largest
transcription company here and a wholly owned subsidiary of Healthscribe
Inc., of Sterling, Va. "An Indian MT makes a fraction of that - two to three
thousand a year, at most four thousand."
All of Healthscribe's U.S. staff work out of their homes. Unlike in India,
almost all transcriptionists in the United States are women.
Virk said his Indian branch operates 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Two
day shifts account for most of the company's 450 workers. The night shift is
the leanest, because it is daytime in the United States and the company's
U.S. transcriptionists work then.
Most reports take 24 hours to return to hospitals. Some, depending on their
urgency, are finished in as little as four hours.
"The time difference is definitely an advantage," said V. Narayanasamy,
managing director of Infoscript, a transcription company in Bangalore.
After doctors record patient information, hospitals convert voice data into
a digital format. Transcription company engineers in India download about 20
hours' of recorded information each night. When the transcriptionists arrive
at 10 a.m., the voice messages are ready to be transcribed.
"We start sending files at 4 p.m., which is 5:30 in the morning [in the
East] in America," said Narayanasamy.
"Each MT does about 500 lines a day," he said. The company has 30
transcriptionists, with another 45 in training. The year-old company expects
to double its capacity within three months.
Most Indian transcription companies work closely with an American partner
that negotiates contracts. Healthscribe is among the 10 largest U.S.
transcription companies, Virk said.
Because local infrastructure has many problems, it is a challenge for the
companies to maintain their rapid growth. The companies must deal with power
failures, for example, plus difficulties in dealing with local contractors.
Infoscript, housed in a modern building on a dirt road in a rapidly growing
section of the city, hires only college graduates. Transcriptionists are
taught medical terminology before they start work. The company keeps a
doctor on staff.
Accuracy is vital - and MTs must understand what they type. Hence the
training in Americana.
"We're taught food habits, names of restaurants, names of places," said
Santhosh Kumar, a veteran at Healthscribe. "We had classes where we were
taught about baseball and how the game was played."
That's because many patients' injuries are sports-related. Besides, doctors
often use sports metaphors in their reports.
Karan Khalsa, an Indo-American who heads Healthscribe India's training
department, said that Indians are taught the street names of American drugs
and terms such as "crank" and "popping."
The company has developed its own training manual, designed for an Indian
context. Take, for example, the weather. Tropical Bangalore's coldest winter
temperatures are in the 60s. Snow is unimaginable.
"When we first started, we had a ton of reports saying that patients had
fallen on their eyes," said Khalsa. "The people had all fallen on the ice."
Tulsidas19
http://www.india-today.com/ntoday/1.121.html
Islamabad: A Parliamentary committee in Pakistan has summoned two actresses
for singing the Indian national anthem and making anti-Pakistan statements
at an Indian function recently. The National Assembly Standing Committee on
Sports and Culture at its meeting on Tuesday condemned the behaviour of
Pakistani actresses Reema and Atiqa Odho and ordered them to appear before
it in Parliament House on June 22.
The two have been summoned by committee chairman Nawabzada Salahuddin for
allegedly uttering words against the dignity of the country and singing the
Indian national anthem while taking part in an Indian programme. This is the
second such instance of its kind in Pakistan.
Earlier, the government arrested and kept the outspoken Friday Times editor
Najam Sethi under detention without trial for three weeks for his alleged
anti-Pakistan remarks at a seminar in New Delhi. He was released following
international uproar over his arrest.
Tulsidas19
New Delhi, June 16 (HT Correspondent)
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/170699/detCIT13.htm
A deeply felt desire for revenge due to its reverses in the 1971 war with
India was one of the reasons for the intrusion of Pakistani regulars along
with the militants in the Kargil sector, Mr J N Dixit, former foreign
secretary, said today.
Mr Dixit was speaking at a symposium, 'Pakistan, Kargil and India' organised
by the Indian Council of World Affairs (ICWA) here.
He said the desire for revenge reflected in the low intensity warfare of
Pakistan and its support to militants in Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir.
"Pakistan wants some part of the Indian territory alienated, similar to what
happened in its case in the form of the independence of Bangladesh in 1971,"
he said. Mr Dixit termed the intrusions in Kargil as a major threat to the
sovereignty of the country after 28 years. He said this was a "defining
moment" in Indo-Pak relations. Inaugurating the symposium, Mr Harcharan
Singh Josh, president of ICWA, said the intrusion demonstrated Pakistan's
sinister design.
The government should launch a diplomatic offensive to inform the
international community about the designs of Pakistan.
Mr Ved Marwah, former Delhi Police Commissioner and adviser to the National
Security Council, said the battle in Kargil was a challenge to those who
wanted good relations with Pakistan.
"The Kargil issue reflects the failure of the decision-making authorities to
understand the type of power structure in Pakistan," he said. Mr Marwah said
power in the neighbouring country is controlled by the religious elements,
bureaucracy, and the feudal lords. "Kashmir and Kargil along with hostility
towards India is a part of the design of these elements to keep themselves
afloat in Pakistan," he said. Mr Marwah favoured a multi-dimensional
approach to the issue.
Major General (retd) Afsar Kareem said Pakistan has territorial ambitions in
South Asia.
"They have succeeded to some extent in Afghanistan and are now concentrating
on Kashmir," he said. Kareem said that after the 1971 war, Pakistan realised
they couldn't go for a full-fledged war with India and therefore decided on
a low intensity war in different sectors. The former Major General talked
about the military aspect of the Kargil problem.
He said the intruders didn't challenge the Indian army but gradually
occupied the positions at the heights. He suggested that India cross the
Line of Control (LoC), which in any case wasn't recognised by Pakistan, and
cut off the supply lines to the intruders.
Prof. Satish Kumar said Kargil was an example of how a dispute is created
when none exists. "Any number of Shimla Agreements, Lahore and UN
declarations don't matter as far as Pakistan is concerned," he said.
Referring to the earlier wars with Pakistan, Prof. Kumar said that it's
being said that whatever we gained in the battlefield has been lost in
diplomacy. India should at least begin asking for talks on Pak Occupied
Kashmir (POK), he said.
Tulsidas19
Second Opinion / K Rajbir Deswal
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
At the time of the Indo-Pak war of 1965, I was barely nine-years old. Lal
Bahadur Shastri, the then Prime Minister of India, in his high-pitched
voice, was giving a loud and clear message on radio, to boost the morale of
the nation and of its soldiers fighting on the borders.
The son of the soil, an upright no-nonsense man, small in frame but mighty
in stature, sounded like a lion. Anxious Indians in streets, mohallas, and
in nukkad paan shops could be seen listening to their premier in rapt
attention. That was the time when the entire nation stood behind Shastri and
put up a united front to strength his able hands.
I was also witness to the convoys on roads leading to border locations being
greeted with flowers, garlands and slogans of "Jai jawan, jai kisan". Lined
up were people making offerings of blankets, biscuits and other items for
use on the border. I was also witness to a very emotional scene when on the
GT Karnal Road women stopped Army vehicles to tie rakhis on jawans' wrists
and also offered jewellery and other items.
After a span of nearly 36 years, the mention of Kargil, Dras Batalik,
Poonch, Chhamb, etc., has made me nostalgic. Once again, the memories of our
unity as a nation and respect for the martyrs have come alive. And I find
myself, almost inadvertently, humming late Pradip's composition rendered so
soulfully by the legendary Lata Mangeshkar, "Jo shaheed hue hain unkee, zara
yaad karo qurbani..."
"Whom they brought home dead" is surely the question. But there are
creditable fora at the global level who will do it justice. And in perfect
Indian traditions of being a peace-loving people, we shall wait for the
outcome.
But we Indians need to acknowledge with reverence and esteem the supreme
sacrifice of martyrs who are laying down their lives at the altar of
patriotism even at this moment. For whom? For us. For those who have been
left behind.
A soldier goes down fighting. That is the spirit of sacrifice. That is the
spirit of keeping the nation uppermost in mind, in a do-or-die situation.
That situation, only the valiant, the willing and the fortunate, encounter.
That too, with courage, with the ability to prove one's salt, with the
audacity to lock horns with imminent death, with the courage to take on the
enemy, with the undaunted urge to dare and defy all odds.
Patriotism is the most sublime spiritual sensibility. Laying down one's life
as a true patriot is nothing less than attaining sainthood. The selfless
spirit sustains sagaciousness even in the direst of circumstances. And it is
here that a soldier becomes a martyr. "Cowards die many times before their
death; the valiant taste of death, but once...!" exclaimed Shakespeare.
We are a society of hero worshippers. But we seldom discriminate as we deify
the undeserving along with the deserving, the creditable as well as those
unworthy of credit, the scrupulous and unscrupulous. This may be generally
true of peace time. But in a crisis situation we must recognise, salute, and
honour the sacrifices made by the heroes guarding our borders. They who live
on the borders of life and death. On borders of all and nothingness. On
borders of preparedness and challenge.
The righteous Dharamraj Yudhisthir, in reply to a question from Yaksha,
said, "Day in and day out people die, but the biggest surprise is that none
sees death for himself." The soldier sees death for himself and still
fights, almost belying the wisdom contained in Yudhishthir's curt reply.
No known truth is the whole truth. And the unknown falsehood, the maya of
existence, of life and of surroundings, becomes the only truth a soldier
truthfully knows. Does he then retrace his steps. No, he takes a bold leap
forward, makes no small distinctions, embraces all that is true or false,
and rises to the stature of a martyr.
Tulsidas19
Pioneer News Service / New Delhi
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
After 23 days of relentless pounding by Air Force jets and fierce fighting
by ground troops, Pakistani invaders are now a demoralised lot and have
started withdrawing from some of the heights in Dras and Batalik sectors.
According to intelligence inputs, heavily-armed Pakistani troops and
mercenaries are now finding it difficult to face the Indian troops' spirited
onslaught and are showing signs of retreating.
Officials said infantry men are now marching ahead, after recapturing
Tololing, Point 4590 and several other strategic heights from the invaders
in the past few days.
In one of the most daring and courageous acts in the combat history of the
Indian armed forces, troops have climbed icy heights of 17000 to 18000 ft,
encircling the enemy positions and catching the armed invaders by surprise.
Officials here said the troops have succeeded in cutting off many of the
supply lines of the invaders, who are now finding it difficult to sustain
the armed intrusion. Attempts are on to disrupt or sever supply and
communication lines to the invaders from Guldhari.
Guldhari is the main supply depot of Pakistan across the Line-of-Control.
Situated along a stream, which drains out in Dras, supplies were sent along
its banks.
Officials said in the initial stages, Pakistani helicopters had flown along
the nape of the river valley to dump supplies, both arms and provisions, to
the invaders inside the Indian LoC.
That is the reason why ground troops are now focussed on wresting Marpola, a
strategic height at the end of the Guldhari river, from the invaders.
Reports reaching the Army Headquarters say that heavy gun fighting was on
near Marpola with the Indian troops launching an all-out battle to capture
this strategic height from the Pakistani troops.
The bunkers and stores are being pounded with heavy artillery shelling as
ground troops move in to physically throw out the intruders.
Officials said the emphasis now was on cutting the supply lines of the
invaders. Starve them and then throw them out is the principle on which the
troops are working.
After dislodging the Pakistani intruders from Tololing top, the troops
backed by artillery shelling, pounded positions held by intruders at Marpola
height, forcing them to flee from a few bunkers, official sources said here
on Wednesday. They said it was a matter of time before they take control of
Marpola height.
The Army has also launched an offensive in Dras sub-sector to capture the
strategically important Tiger Hills, after cordoning the intruders from
three sides. After driving the intruders from the saddle area in this
sub-sector, the troops will soon attempt to get hold of the intruders after
choking their supply lines.
The troops, backed by battery of artillery, hit several targets in the
sector inflicting some casualty on the intruders. Some of the bunkers
vacated by intruders had track marks of bodies having been dragged away.
Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force jets once again began pounding the invaders
with different kinds of weapons. Air force officials said they were now
working out a new strategy, based on the past experience, to flush out the
invaders more effectively.
They said it was for the first time that such an operation was being
undertaken by any air force in the world -- plucking out enemy troops at
altitude ranging from 15000ft to 17000ft, where it was extremely difficult
to manoeuvre the aircraft, dive in or dive out, or engage in any combat
manoeuvre within the confines of narrow valleys.
Officials said they were now on the verge of implementing a new strategy
employing different combinations of aircraft and weapons to eliminate
invaders and their supply lines. "Our attempt is exploit the element of
surprise," they said.
Tulsidas19
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LANCER/idr00006.htm
Source : The Indian Defence Review, © 1997 by Lancer Publishers &
Distributors.
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Article Author : Maj Gen YASHWANT DEVA AVSM (Retd)
Spying is the second oldest profession and nowhere else has it flourished
more in a short span of time, that too, with professional élan, than in
Pakistan. Known by an innocuous sounding Inter Services Intelligence,
abbreviated ISI, it is a wellspring of power and one of the most virile
intelligence agencies in the Third World. Its forte lies in intrigue,
hatching conspiracies, brokering terrorism and paddling misinformation.
In recent months, the ISI has been in the limelight, its skulduggery having
received a new thrust; - and notoriety, fresh showing. A report has been
submitted to the House of Representatives by a US task force on terrorism
and unconventional warfare. The report, titled, "The New Islamic
International" is significant in revealing the exploits of the ISI. That the
original document is dated 1 Feb, 1993 and that it has some inaccuracies,
does not make the findings any less weighty.
A chilling account" of the role of the ISI's involvement with Sikh
militants, bombing of Kanishka and American, indifference, even complicity,
has been chronicled in a TV documentary of the "Fifth Estate" of the
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC). The documentary deplores the stark
incertitude of the US administration, although it had all the evidence at
its command. What is worse, by overplaying India's human rights record,
Washington has rewarded and encouraged ISI in its evil pursuits. Another TV
feature produced by CNN, traces the ISI connection to Afghan Mujahideen and
their involvement with the bomb explosion at the World Trade Centre. The two
documentaries together, and the Canadian one by itself constitute the most
damning indictment of the ISI Involvement in terrorism in India.
There is no let-up in ISI's activities in Kashmir, which include
recruitment, training, arming and induction of terrorist bands, besides
guidance in planning and conduct of operations. ISI has a strong connection
with Sheikh Mubarak Shah Jiiani and his fundamentalist outfit AI Fuqra. The
group was responsible for "a decade long string of assassinations and
bombings in the name of Islamic purity."' Lately, the ISI has ventured in
the heartland through promotion of narco- terrorism chauvinism. That the
organisation has a collaborator in the Nepalese Parliament, is sinister
enough, but far more portentous is the patron-age bestowed by the Bangladesh
Government to the organisation for promoting insurgency in the North East.
Recently, a diabolic plot has been unravelled, which suggests that ISI, with
a view to destabilising the country and creating mayhem, had planned to
repeat the Bombay blasts and ignite communal riots all over India to
coincide with the Republic Day celebrations. With the arrest of four
Pakistanis, one Bangladeshi and one Indian in the capital by the Delhi
police, a major breakthrough in exposing diabolic designs of the ISI has
been achieved. "Though intelligence agencies are still trying to fully
comprehend the ramifications of the latest ring unearthed by them, the case
is perhaps the most brazen attempt of Pakistan-trained nationals being sent
to create terror countrywide; the low intensity proxy war transcending to
practically open hostilities."
Mission, Budget and Organisation
The ISI was founded in 1948 by a British army officer, Maj Gen R Cawthome,
then Deputy Chief of Staff in Pakistan Army. He conceived it as part of the
military establishment, intended to combine and co-ordinate intelligence
set-ups of the Services. Over the years, it gathered influence and when Zia
seized power, it acquired real muscle. Today, the ISI has achieved the
dubious distinction of being the most dreaded outfit, within; and a
master-hand in dispensing terrorism, without.
ISI charter incorporates gathering of external and internal intelligence;
co-ordination of intelligence functions of the three Services; surveillance
over its cadre, foreigners, media men, politically conscious segments of Pak
society, diplomats of other countries accredited to Pakistan and Pak
diplomats serving outside the country; interception and monitoring of
communications; and conduct of covert offensive operations.
Unlike intelligence agencies of other countries, the top and middle rung
officers of the ISI are exclusively drawn from the military establishment.
Its chief is designated as director general and appointed from amongst the
serving lieutenant generals; although there has been one exception when a
retired officer was assigned to the post. During Yahya Khan's rule, the DG
also headed the newly created National Security Council and that added to
his stature and influence. Under the DG there are three deputy director
generals (DDGs), one each from the army, the navy and the air force. The ISI
mans a Military Liaison Section (MLS) in the Ministry of Interior.
ISI is a major beneficiary of Pakistan's national budget, with a large
unaccountable chunk coming from the defence outlay. In Pakistan, no one
knows, not even the Prime Minister, as to how much ISI costs to run or
precisely how many people it employs. But today, the ISI enjoys total
support of the Prime Minister. The fact that, both, she and her father had
suffered at the hands of ISI has been forgotten and treated as a closed
chapter. She has learnt the bitter lesson from her previous tenure as the
Prime Minister, when she confronted the organisation and tried to clip its
wings. In the battle of wits, the ISI won and retained its clout; she lost
and was sent packing. ISI continues to call the shots, the inspired views of
its devaluation notwithstanding.
During the late 80s the most powerful component of the organisation was
Joint Intelligence Bureau (JIB), which handled political intelligence. In
her earlier incarnation as the PM, Benazir ordered transfer of the functions
of JIB to the Interior Ministry, but the rumour has it that the sensitive
files and dossiers were, instead, moved to the GHQ. Later, they found their
way back to the very drawers and cabinets from which they were taken out.
And now the ISI has become a law unto itself.
An equally powerful component of the ISI is the Joint Counter Intelligence
Bureau (JCIB), it continues to wear authority and influence on its sleeves.
It has a director for field surveillance, who keeps a watch on Pak diplomats
accredited to other countries. The bureau conducts intelligence operations
in Asia and the Middle East. Its special spheres of interest are. the
countries of South Asia, a common knowledge; and China, a fact not so well
known. ISI's operations in China were started in collaboration with the CIA
and perhaps continue to be so; this activity is passionately disguised and
denied for obvious reasons. Lately, Afghanistan and Muslim republics of the
former Soviet Union too, are being handled by JCIB and these countries have
become a favourite haunt of ISI agents." The wing also keeps IS Directorate
under surveillance through a section referred to as ISSS and prepares
reports for the chief executive; for the latter purpose, there is a director
attached to the PM's Secretariat.
Joint Intelligence Miscellaneous (JIM) deals with espionage in foreign
countries and offensive intelligence operations. J&K affairs, including
infiltration, exfilteration, propaganda and shady operations, is the mission
assigned to JIN (an abbreviation standing for Joint Intelligence : North)
under DDG External II, a post generally held by a major general. While the
IN is staffed by military technocrats, who could be described in modern
parlance as system analysts, the cloak and dagger stuff is the preserve of
operational cells and forces, dedicated to the mission. Those exclusively
set up for J&K have been periodically wound up and then re-created with the
aim of causing confusion. During Zia's time, a special cell was established
for Afghanistan which had under it deputy directors responsible for
political affairs, training, arms distribution and refugees. This was
disbanded after the Jallalabad fiasco. Although no precise information is
available, it is believed that a similar cell was created for imparting
training and distribution of arms to the Sikh extremists and it continues to
be active.
Another field in which the ISI has been highly successful, is gathering of
signal Intelligence. This mission is assigned to JSIB (Joint Signal
Intelligence Bureau) which has DDs (Deputy Directors) Wireless, Monitoring
and Photos on its establishment. The organisation runs a chain of intercept
stations along the entire Indo-Pak border, besides providing communication
support to the militants operating in the Valley. In the spring of 1992, it
was estimated that there were about 200 clandestine radio stations operating
on the Indian soil.
JIX is the largest wing, which serves as the secretariat. It co-ordinates
the functions of other wings and field organisations, prepares intelligence
estimates and threat perceptions, besides giving administrative support to
the organisation.
Zia's Contribution to ISI's Growth
It is tragic that in the middle ages, most Islamic politics degenerated and
settled down as personal despotism, the egalitarian spirit and appeal of the
religion notwithstanding. Aggressive Islamization in Pakistan, true to
historical legacy, has proceeded in tandem with Zia's totalitarian
statecraft. Zia found in the ISI a useful instrument to synthesise the two
with a view to eliminating internal opposition and promoting fanaticism,
which inter alia included such insidious ploys as exporting terrorism and
conducting raids in the name of jihad. He cleverly manipulated the diverse,
yet coterminous aphorism of Khomeini's Islamic revolution and American
foreign policy objectives in support of policy of subversion in Afghanistan
and when that showed promise, made a grand design to destabilise India.
A strong component of American foreign policy interest at the fag end of the
Cold War was to ostracise communist influence in Afghanistan and teach the
former Soviet Union a lesson for its interventionist policies. "In pursuance
of this objective CIA forged a close relationship with the ISI, through
which three billion dollars worth of arms were channelled to the Afghan
Mujahideen. Hekmatyar was adopted as the intelligence agencies favourite
surrogate to prosecute America's Proxy war against the Soviet Union." Zia
utilised the opportunity not only to rehabilitate his tarnished
international image by becoming a front-line warrior against the communist
menace but also to settle scores with India.
During Zia's reign, the ISI fuelled the separatist movements in Punjab and
Kashmir. In domestic affairs, it acquired a special status and immense
power. Experience in Afghanistan, where in collusion with the CIA, It
conducted one of the biggest covert operations in the world since the end of
the Vietnam war gave its teeth a sharper bite. It luxuriated in joint
collaboration with CIA and was privy to arcane ways, learning the latest
tricks of the trade. In Afghanistan, it played one group of the Mujahideen
against the other and then presided over the assemblage to compose
differences and broker accords. It did not spare its mentors, the CIA.
Without their knowledge and concurrence, it helped itself to dollars and
siphoned off arms meant for Mujahideen to Iran, an arch enemy of the US.
When the beans were spilled and the US decided to send a fact-finding and
stock-taking board, it fudged records, put Ojhri camp to the torch and
destroyed the incriminating evidence.
Internal involvements
In his book, If I am Assassinated, Bhutto charged that the ISI was actively
used to spy on him, whereas it had failed miserably when it came to
gathering hard intelligence in both, 1965 and 1971 operations. He writes,
"How did Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan use the intelligence agencies? Yahya Khan
used to the hilt the intelligence agencies for political purposes to divide
the politicians and influence the elections of 1979." In the same vein, he
repeats, "Ayub Khan also used the intelligence agencies for political
purposes to the hilt . . . He tried to prevent my party from getting off the
ground." Narrating the episode when Ayub Khan sought an explanation about
the inability of the ISI to locate the Indian Armoured Division, he quotes
DG, ISI Brig Riaz Hussain of having replied, "Sir, from June 1964, Military
Intelligence has been given political assignments on elections and
post-election repercussions."
Bhutto on ISI
Bhutto, in the book If I am Assassinated writes extracts of the White Paper
issued by the Zia administration that it "demonstrates its piety with
crocodile tears on the role of the intelligence agencies of the State as a
political arm of the government of Pakistan People's Party." He writes that
on page 195, the White Papers registers it concern in the following words..
"The role of the intelligence agencies of the State as a political arm of
the PPP regime, particularly in relation to the general elections, raises
many disconcerting questions. When politics permeates such sensitive
institutions as the Intelligence Bureau or the ISI, it naturally deflects
them from their prime concern with the State's external and internal
security. Political bias against dissenting political parties which are a
very necessary component of a democratic society, also tends to complicate
and distort the task of State security."
Bhutto refutes the allegations and writes that Lt Gen G Jilanl was DG of ISI
before he became President of Pakistan on 20 Dec 1971, that except for him,
"all the officials incharge of intelligence at the federal level were
arrested on the night of the coup, or within a month of it," that Jilanl was
"not touched but on the contrary was sent to the Defence Ministry as its
Secretary." He further adds, "This question must be considered in
conjunction with Lt Gen Jilanl's successful effort in influencing me to
consider the then Maj Gen Zia-ui-Haq for the post of the Chief of Staff in
suppression of about six Generals. This is only a fraction of the story. But
even with this minimum disclosure I would like to ask who exploited whom?
Did the Military Intelligence Chief and his Chief of Staff exploit me or I
exploited them?" (emphasis added).
Undoubtedly Bhutto suffered at the hands of the ISI, but he cannot be
absolved of his contribution to the breeding of this Frankenstein. Of his
own admission, he mooted the suggestion for "the merger of Central
Intelligence Agencies into one integrated intelligence department divided
into two categories (i) internal and (ii) external. Obviously, he conceived
a greater role for the ISI, hoping to keep his position secure by placating
the military's most powerful army, but the chicks came home to roost. It was
Zuifiqar, who legalised the ISI's involvement in domestic surveillance, for
which he paid heavily. Benazir, too, had wrecked her reputation and suffered
a smash-up when she tried to take on the ISI. Today, she is an ardent
supporter of the organisation and a collaborator of its misdemeanours.
Proxy War in Kashmir
The extent of Pakistani and Afghan influence on the Islamic transformation
of the Kashmiri insurgency is quite clear. In mid-Eighties, Islamic
revivalism had taken a "radical political stance", slogans advocating
establishment of an Islamic state were publicly raised and received with
growing popularity. The population came under the influence of the
leadership of Jamaati-islami and Khomeinists. By 1984, an Islamic
radicalisation had developed that saw the rise of such movements as JKLF,
Kashmir Liberation Front, the Mahaz-e-Azadi and the Liberation League.
By 1985, Jamaat-e-lsiami and Al-Jihad movements had become influential in
Kashmir politics. Islamic indoctrination was provided by Jamaat-isiami of
Pakistan". This is the same organisation about whose leaders Bhutto had
written that, "they show a total ignorance of Islam and betray an un-islamic
mentality", they "follow the ways of jahiliyat (imbecility)" and accused
them of denouncing Qaid-i-Azam asKafir-e-Azam.
Al Jihad took inspiration from the ideology of the Iranian revolution. It
publicly pronounced that "Islamic revolution" was the only way to liberate
Kashmir. In a short span of a few years, "there was a marked erosion of the
secular Kashmiri personality and a Muslim identity with fundamentalist
overtones started emerging rapidly." It lent justification to give the
movement "a pan-Islamic character and an extra territorial dimension."
In the early stages, the ISI used Mujahideen infrastructure to help the
Kashmiri and Sikh separatists. "At times the assistance was funnelled
through Afghan rebel leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hizb-i-isiami group, thus
providing 1siamabad with deniability."
The report submitted by the task force to the American Congress mentions
creation of a special force, which made its debut in July 1991 and within
months perpetuated communal frenzy and accelerated militancy. This was the
time when Pak sponsored terrorism was at its peak. The novel feature of the
special force is that it has been drawn from those with operational
experience in Afghanistan. Officered by mainly Punjabis, the cadre is highly
motivated and willing to undertake daring assignments. They have let loose
agents provocateur, who freely mingle with government functionaries in the
Valley and have been known to use Indian army and police uniforms. Recent
events show that they have been effective in creating bad blood between the
two arms of the security outfit, pitching one against the other. A hot ploy
is to commit atrocities the garb of the security forces, so that the finger
of accusation is pointed in the wrong direction.
The report points out that about 20,000 young Kashmiris have been trained
and armed in POK in recent years. It dwells at length over the Pakistani
involvement in stoking the fire of terrorism and insurgency in Kashmir.
"Indeed the very size of the Pakistani training programme is telling," it
observes; and goes on to describe the breakdown of the number of trainees in
the ISI run camps and their cabal affiliation.
In the manner of Maoist classical approach, 1987 to 1989 marked the first
stage of insurgency. It aimed at seeding discontent and creating a nucleus
of Islamic militancy; and was characterised by sporadic uncoordinated
attacks on soft targets. The insurgents adopted hit and run tactics and
avoided direct confrontation with the security forces. "Only expendable,
barely trained terrorists were committed." Had the Indian authorities dealt
with the insurgents more firmly and nipped the secessionist movement in the
bud, the ISI would have suffered a dismal defeat, but the Government
dilly-dallied; worst, it openly aired differences within its own ranks on
the approach to be adopted. This led to the second stage, more
professionalized and better co-ordinated. The assassination of Mirwaiz
provided the right kind of opportunity for garnering active support for the
terrorists.
In early 1992, the ISI had established a common command over the disparate
military arms of organisations that had mushroomed, true to the example set
by the Mujahideen of Afghanistan and the general pattern of Islamic
militancy elsewhere. It succeeded in the fall of 1991, in mediating and
settling an agreement between the military arms of the Hizb-ul- Mujahideen,
the Allah Tigers and the Ikhwan-ul-Musalmeen to launch joint and
co-ordinated operations. Though somewhat tenuous, the ISI control helped in
funnelling arms, ammunition and money to the militants, besides conducting
training and indoctrination programmes. The training campus had started
turning out more hardened and motivated gangs, well-versed in the use of
sophisticated weapons, explosives and radio sets. Whereas a total of 390
cases of terrorism were reported in 1988, the number spurted to 4,971 in
1992. There was a substantial increase in the incidents against the security
forces from 6 in 1988 to a high of 3,413 in 1992. The quality and the
quantity of arms captured by the security forces, too, is indicative of the
growing involution of the ISI. In 1988, only 34 AK-47s (or its later
versions), were recovered; the figure went up to a whopping 3,775 in 1992.
The second stage was also marked by the setting up of a number of
broadcasting stations in POK. These spewed communal venom and created a
"spiral of hatred and violence between the security forces and the masses."
Gremlin broadcasts and mischievous propaganda led to influencing the
gullible and the devout, who came out on the streets with increased
frequency and virulence. Sada-i-Hurriet became the instrument for hatching
and mongering rumours. The fare that it dished out in local languages, is
the fertile product of ISI propaganda mill. A notable achievement of the ISI
is the influencing of the foreign media like AFP and BBC, whose
misrepresentation of happenings in India has seriously affected peace and
serenity of minorities and led to escalation of tension in the Valley .
Exporting Terrorism through Sikh Militancy
Pakistan, since its creation, has never been well disposed towards Sikhs.
Pakistani writings project Sikhs as barbarians, heap ridicule and pass
blasphemous and disparaging remarks about the universally venerated gurus.
In early Eighties, the tactics changed though not the attitude. Operation
Blue Star provided the long awaited opportunity, which the ISI exploited
thoroughly in creating communal fracas in Punjab and fuelling Sikh
community's alienation with the government. ISI drew a crafty game-plan,
initially designed to supply arms and giving refuge to those who committed
crimes in India. Later, the scope was enlarged and an operation codenamed
K-2 launched, which inter-alia included training to the estranged Sikh youth
in the use of sophisticated arms and explosives, co-ordination with
militants operating in the Valley and directing terrorist acts, both, in
India and abroad. Terrorism received a fresh fillip with Indira Gandhi's
assassination. As for Islamabad, this was a positive "proof of the strategic
value of subversion."
By 1985 the ISI had established a vast training infrastructure for the
Afghan resistance movement that could "just as well be used for training and
support of other regional groups." Terrorists of Dal Khalsa were chosen for
importing advance training in Afghan Mujahideen camps. A few of these
trainees were killed in a Soviet raid on an Afghan training camp in Pakistan
and highly incriminating documents recovered from them. It was not long
before CIA trained Afghan terrorists, too, were inducted into India with the
purpose of organising acts of terrorism against members of the Indian
government and foreign diplomatic representatives.
There was a strategic motive too, highlighted by the US task group's report
to the Congress. Pakistan's claims to Kashmir tempted ISI to sponsor and
encourage creation of Khalistan. In its calculation, this would make "the
Indian defence of Kashmir difficult."" Islamabad was determined to exploit
growing tension in Kashmir to destabilise India and, therefore, embarked on
an ambitious plan of providing training and military assistance to Punjab
militants."
What could be more incriminating evidence of Pak involvement in Punjab than
Benazir's own admission that she had Helped Rajiv Gandhi's government in
overcoming Sikh militancy? She said this in an interview with the BBC,
broadcast on 13 Feb, 1994. Howsoever, she and spokesmen of her government
thed to explain away the substance of the interview, the import of this
"confession", as Nawaz Shahef described her faux pas, is not lost on the
international audience.
ISI's Activities in the Neighbouring Countries
Elsewhere in India and other countries of South Asia, ISI is no less active.
It has resurrected its old contacts, which it had assiduously cultivated in
erstwhile East Pakistan and which collaborated with Pak occupation forces
during the Bangladesh struggle for independence. At a press conference in
Shillong at the conclusion of the 37th meeting of the North Eastem Council,
the Home Minister accused Dhaka of providing a base to the ISI for its opera
tions. Although Bangladesh has feigned ignorance and denied the charge, it
appears from Mr Chawan's categorical statement, that his ministry has
incontrovertible evidence of Bangladeshi complicity in promoting the
activities of the ISI to disrupt peace in insurgency hit north east. He
observed that, "it is unfortunate that even some officers in uniform have
imparled training to the militants of the region to create large-scale law
and order problem." His warning that unless Bangladesh government desists
from supporting ISI, it could "create problems between the two countries,"
is timely and may invoke salutary effect.
The Republic Day plot was detected just in time by the Indian counter
intelligence. The trail led to Dilshed Mirza Beg, a Member of Parliament in
Nepal, belonging to Sadbhavana party. He has acted as a conduit for
supplying weapons and explosives to a network of agents, spread all over
India. Some links and moles have been identified; arrests too have been
made, but this may be only a tip of the iceberg. Recent explosion in Odeon
cinema in the capital appears to be the handiwork of ISI agents. Whereas
Delhi, Secunderabad, Bombay, Lucknow and towns in J&K and Punjab are kept
under watch, it is well nigh impossible to cover the entire country. The ISI
has both resources and design to create mischief anywhere in India.
Anti-India Lobbying in Britain and the US
Britain, Canada and the US have become important centres for lobbying and
fund raising for anti-India activities, organised by the ISI. In Britain
there has been a sudden spurt in the number of Muslim charities, not
dedicated to purely humanitarian aims. The Guardian named two of these
organisations, The "Young Muslims" and "The Islamic Foundation". The latter
is headed by Prof. Khurshid Ahmed who is vice president of Jammat-i-isiami
which has promoted extremism in Afghanistan and Kashmir.
Khalistan lobby in the US is no less active. The case of Dr Badett is a
cogent example. On 11 Feb he along with 28 Congressmen, initiated an appeal
to the President, urging him to pressure the Indian government into letting
Amnesty International investigate alleged human rights abuses in Punjab. The
letter to Clinton was released by the Council of Khalistan. It accused the
Indian government of brutal repression against the Sikh nation. The
signatories say "We are concemed at the bloodshed in Punjab, Khalistan and
the human rights organisations such as Amnesty International, be permitted
to investigate human lights violations in the Sikh homeland."
Last year, Bariett had opposed an anti-India resolution promoted by the well
known India basher Mr Den Burton. Badett's turnaround is attributed to
active courting by the Khalistani lobby, exhorted by the ISI. The
Khalistanis have promised hefty contributions to Bariett's election campaign
against Neil Dhillon a democratic candidate, in the battle of hustings for
the Maryland Constituency distinct constituency.
Concluding Remarks
The US may turn a Nelson's eye to the macabre doings of the ISI and for
political expediency show reluctance to declare Pakistan a terrorist state,
but the bitter truth rancours. "US sources support the assertion that
Washington was well aware of Pakistan's involvement with militant Sikhs
during the 80s but were reluctant to make an issue of it for fear of
jeopardising the campaign to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Canadian
intelligence sources confirm that neither the Federal Bureau of
Investigation nor the CIA provided any useful assistance during the
investigation of Kanishka bombing. Prosecutors in World Trade Centre case
argue that the conspiracy was actually hatched in Peshawar.
What happened in Afghanistan is being repeated in Kashmir. There are as many
"Azaadi" groups as was the motley that constituted Mujahideen. God forbid if
they too achieve their objective, the fate of Kashmir will be no different
from that of Afghanistan. Pakistan will exploit every opportunity to rip the
secular and multiethnic fabric of the country. Their capacity to fish in the
troubled waters of the north east as ISI has done in Kashmir, is an ominous
warning. But the seeds of discord can only sprout where there is social
inequity and political indifference. The government cannot depend merely on
letters of protests to Pakistan or the meagrely funded counter-intelligence
to meet the challenge posed by the ISI. It will be highly desirable to
involve the people and build their resistance to exploitation. For that, it
is necessary that genuine grievances of the venerable section of the society
are removed and elements that have been alienated, brought back to the fold.
Hari Om
Tulsidas
HIND...@my-deja.com
adi...@my-deja.com
HIND...@my-deja.com wrote:
> with 300 men ?
It took one man to kill Lincoln. The 700-800 pakis in the mountains near
Kargil are supported by 2000+ 'porters' who being in fresh supplies. Are you
that dumb to assume that terrain does not affect the capabilities of the
assailants?
As for avenging its humiliation in 71, pakiland cannot do anything to India
in a major battle. This is paki idea of revenge - keep sending in mercenaries
who are a dime a dozen in pakiland.
You are correct that the sending a few or even a thousand mercenaries will
hardly give pakiland any revenge except its own ego-boost which will last a
few days at most until its mercenaries are wiped out. But you have to
understand that this is not a rational entity behind these plans - this is
pakiland we are talking of.
And pakis are not known for having a vision beyond the next 24 hours.
Adi Anant
> Tulsidas19 wrote:
> > 'Pak trying to avenge '71 defeat'
> > New Delhi, June 16 (HT Correspondent)
> > http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/170699/detCIT13.htm
> >
> > A deeply felt desire for revenge due to its reverses in the 1971 war with
> > India was one of the reasons for the intrusion of Pakistani regulars along
> > with the militants in the Kargil sector, Mr J N Dixit, former
Tulsidas19
New Delhi, June 17 (HT Correspondent)
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/180699/detCIT04.htm
The 20-odd persons who gathered for the memorial meeting for Myron Weiner
this evening, while recalling their association with this American teacher
and scholar of Indian politics, sketched the portrait of a man passionately
involved with the Indian sub-continent, not just for his research, but with
"an all pervasive interest".
The gathering comprised professors and research scholars from the fields of
political science and social science and bureaucrats who had come in contact
with Mr Weiner in the course of his work. While the discussion largely
centred around Mr Weiner's contribution to the field of research, especially
on the problem of child labour in the country, Weiner's irrepressible
personality marked by the 'spring in his walk,' half-sleeved shirt and black
bow tie, coupled with the ability to get across to people easily was
something nobody seemed to forget.
Ajit Bhattacharjea, a veteran journalist, who knew Myron since the mid 1950s
read out a note send by a friend from the US after Myron's death. It had
been diagnosed in November that there was a cancerous tumour embedded in his
brain and he died on June 3 at his farmhouse in Vermont.
Mr Bhattacharjea talked about the systematic way in which Myron used to take
down notes and do his field studies. He recalled how Myron and he had gone
to a restaurant in Bangalore where Myron got into conversation with all the
adolescents working in the restaurant, taking notes of everything all the
time. "Though we may not agree with him on a lot of issues, his concern for
the subject (child labour) came through so clearly," said Mr Bhattacharjea.
Congress leader Jairam Ramesh, who was a student of Myron, said, "The four
main themes of his work were political systems, their working in emerging
societies, migrant societies, social sector and the inability of the Indian
state to implement its rhetorical declarations and modernisation and how
modernisation led to greater ethnic tensions." He often used to remark how
the only politician to respond to his four-page letter on the issue of the
child and the state was Ms Jayalalitha, said Mr Ramesh adding that it was an
ironical comment on the political class and how primary education ranks low
among the political class.
As for societal concerns, Mr Ramesh identified three of Myron's concerns,
his extreme sense of "jewishness" and his efforts to bring India and Israel
together, the divorce between universities and the centres of excellence in
social science research and American interest in India and how the Indian
visa policy kept away American scholars leading to loss of interest in
India. At the end of the meeting it was decided that all of them ought to
get together to organise a discussion or seminar on Myron and his works,
with special emphasis on his main concerns as reflected in his works.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Tulsidas19
By Mohit Dubey
http://www.timesofindia.com/today/18indi11.htm
The Times of India News Service
LUCKNOW: Two gun-runners arrested here on June 2, and suspected to be
working for Dawood Ibrahim, have turned out to be ISI agents sent to kill
important people and create chaos in the country. Their targets apparently
included some family members of the Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray, several
prominent BJP leaders and also a former police commissioner of Mumbai. So
startling have been the revelations that Mumbai police have rushed a team
from its crime branch to interrogate the duo arrested from a guest house on
the Shahnajaf Road here by the Special Task Force with sophisticated
firearms smuggled in from Nepal.
The two men, Abdul A Sheikh alias Azizuddin and Aqueel Ahmed have apparently
confessed that they indeed were ISI agents and their mission was to commit
subversive acts before the general elections in India. Azizuddin in fact has
been identified by Mumbai police as Sattar, an ace hit-man belonging to the
Chhota Shakeel gang, who was wanted for several sensational crimes in Mumbai
and Hyderabad, including the attempt on the life of Mumbai's ex-Mayor Milind
Vaidya. Sattar is said to have told interrogators that he had received arms
training at the ISI headquarters.
His name spelt terror in Hyderabad in the early nineties but he gained
notoriety after gunning down a popular BJP leader of Andhra Pradesh, Nand
Raj Gaur in 1993 in Hyderabad. Gaur, known as a Hindu fanatic, had mobilised
a large number of kar sevaks for the construction of Ram Mandir at Ayodhya.
The gun-runner also confessed that after the crime he had escaped to Saudi
Arabia from where he was flown to Islamabad. He was trained by the officers
of the ISI in `target-shooting' and handling of sophisticated, latest
state-of-art weapons. He was also given training in concealing one's
identity, speaking in different dialects spoken in northern parts of the
country.
The two also admitted to having used Lucknow as a transit spot for dumping
weapons `imported' from Nepal. Azizuddin reportedly admitted that other
targets in Pune, Delhi and Mumbai were to be `Golden Akbar', Dutta Khande,
gangster-turned-politician Arun Gawli and Johny Joker, a member of Chota
Rajan gang who lived in Dongri. Earlier this month, following their
interrogation by the police and Central agencies, a team of STF and the
crime branch Mumbai police had managed to arrest three men in Mumbai, Tariq
Parveen, Mansoor alias Mota and Usman from whose posession the banned
weapons were also recovered.
Tulsidas19
BY Wing Commander (retd) R V Parasnis
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/19kash.htm
Only as long as one keeps one's self-respect, does one achieve success, good
name and prosperity and only then is he worthy of being called a man. -- an
ancient adage.
While brave young men are dying to free their country from the aggression of
a resolute enemy, our defence minister announced a willingness to give the
intruders a safe passage back. Rather shocking announcement this and it
amounts to stabbing our brave jawans in the back while they are engaged in
fighting the enemy!
We, as young officers, often faced a question from our rustic soldiers in
the aftermath of the Tashkent (1965) and Simla (1971) summits: "What did we
shed our blood for, if all the area we fought and won was to be returned on
a platter on the negotiation table?"
We were hard put to answer not just because a simple soldier does not
understand political compulsions but also because we ourselves were not
convinced about the logic regarding the return of at least the disputed
territory, hard won with tremendous sacrifice.
Now, how would the present officer cadre explain this "safe passage"
business to their men? If the soldiers lose their will to fight on account
of such irresponsible statements, let me warn, the country may suffer an
ignominious defeat, from which we may never recover.
As if the defence minister's statement was not enough, the prime minister
had to repeat it at the press conference in Bombay after the commissioning
of INS Mysore. Now both men are denying it and blaming the media for
misquoting and/or quoting them out of context.
Incidentally, as a result of the defence minister's statement India has had
to listen to some insulting arrogance of a puny terrorist outfit who from
their safe haven in Pakistan asked as to who we were to offer them safe
passage and that if we needed safe passage we could request them instead.
Whatever little I understand of 'negotiations' one is supposed to keep one's
trump cards close to the chest, offer only little in return for greater
spoils and thus eventually drive home a good bargain. In this case we have
declared all our hands already.
''Safe passage'' is the maximum concession we can give. Beyond this we will
have to surrender our own territory. And sure enough, thanks to this
statement, Pakistan is now talking of the ''Line of Control not being
clearly demarcated'' so that they can claim and retain some of the
commanding heights they have occupied in the hills around Kargil. What a
self-defeating game our government is playing!
Let me enumerate the errors made by this government. Firstly, it was the
intelligence failure that gave us no advance warning of the Pakistani
intentions, the planning, the training, the movement of the intruders and
the occupation of our border posts.
Secondly, it was the vigilance failure on the part of our security agencies
like the Border Security Force, the Indo Tibetan Border Police, the army
and, of course, the Jammu and Kashmir police. The vigilance failure is also
attributed to intelligence and reconnaissance agencies.
Thirdly, the decision-making failure. The government failed to give higher
directions and quick decisions on the mode of driving out the intruders. The
present decision is to recapture the lost posts without crossing the LoC.
This decision forces us to fight with one hand tied at the back causing
heavy casualties and leaves the initiative in the enemy's hand. Also, by
cautioning Nawaz Sharief that we will use army and air power our prime
minister gave an advance warning about our intentions to the enemy.
Fourthly, the defence minister absolved the Pakistani government and the
nefarious Inter-Services Intelligence from this intrusion, putting the
entire blame on the Pakistani army. If the Pakistani army alone is to blame
for this misadventure as per his view, then why does he not grant permission
to our forces to smash the Pakistani army? After a few days he retracted his
statement to put the ISI in cahoots with the army but continues to defend
Sharief and his government.
Fifthly, he talked of giving safe passage to the intruding marauders and
maintained that for two days only to retract the statement later by blaming
the media for quoting him out of context.
Sixthly, the defence minister took two army generals and an air marshal for
briefing a convention of a political party, bending set rules and norms.
Seventhly, the other important Cabinet ministers like the home minister and
the foreign minister publicly accepted the Pakistani government's complicity
in this sordid saga. Thus the various ministers are seen to give
contradictory statements, displaying lack of cohesion in the Cabinet.
Lastly the government has not been able to counter Pakistani propaganda in
the international arena.
Thus, it is quite clear that the government has not been able to face the
present threat to national security effectively and that the prime minister
appears to have no control over his ministers, who are all following their
own agendas. While George Fernandes is drawing all the flak, there are
reasons to suspect that he is voicing Atal Bihari Vajpayee's views.
In conclusion, this government deserves to be dismissed. Sadly, that cannot
be done in a democracy. The least that can be done is what former prime
minister I K Gujral has suggested: the President must question the
government on Fernandes's fitness to hold the post of defence minister and
have him dropped.
The need of the hour is punitive action to mete out exemplary punishment to
Pakistan. We have tolerated enough mischief. Pakistan has waged proxy wars
against us for two decades, first using the Khalistanis and then the
Kashmiris and finally their own troops, the Islamic terrorists and
mercenaries. We have lost thousands of our soldiers and innocent unarmed
citizens, spent billions of rupees and lost a lucrative tourism trade in
Kashmir valley forcing starvation on the Kashmiri populace. It is time we
hit back and hard.
The international community is convinced that Pakistan is playing a
dangerous game and have declined to bail out Pakistan in case of war. By now
our preparation for offensive action should be complete. The terrain around
the LoC is such that it prevents frontal assaults on the commanding heights
in the possession of the intruders.
In any case in the hills, frontal assaults are expensive in terms of
casualties. 'Hook tactics' are best suited but involve crossing of the LoC
into Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. This permission must be granted to our armed
forces so that the enemy's support bases can be attacked or cut off. That
will also provide worthwhile targets for our air force. The intruders can
then be truly isolated and forced to flee. It is always easy to eliminate
the fleeing enemy.
Pakistan Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz has stated that ''the 740-kilometre
long LoC," which was considered sacrosanct by the two countries so far "is
not clearly defined," thus making room for the intruders to make claims on
our area.
Preposterous as the statement may be we can use it to our advantage. On the
strength of the Pakistan foreign minister's statement let us permit our
forces to cross the LoC. We need to capture a lot of area on the PoK side of
the LoC to genuinely secure our lifeline to Leh.
In fact this may be the best opportunity to regain the entire PoK. Since
they have intruded into our side of LoC, we have equal right to intrude into
theirs. In any case Pakistan's government itself is claiming that the LoC is
not clearly defined. So we should help them define it properly. If the risk
of all-out war is inherent in this escalation then so be it. It is time
Pakistan learnt a lesson they will not forget.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> The Great Betrayal
> BY Wing Commander (retd) R V Parasnis
>
> http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/19kash.htm
>
> While brave young men are dying to free their country from the aggression of
> a resolute enemy, our defence minister announced a willingness to give the
> intruders a safe passage back. Rather shocking announcement this and it
> amounts to stabbing our brave jawans in the back while they are engaged in
> fighting the enemy!
The whole episode of safe passage is completely over. What is the point of
flogging dead horses now?
George has also learned to be more reticent and shut up his mouth
Tejas Pandya
>
> The whole episode of safe passage is completely over. What is the point of
> flogging dead horses now?
>
> George has also learned to be more reticent and shut up his mouth
its not matter of 'Episode being over...' , this forget and forgive nature
of us and Gandhian principles have brought us where we are, or where we
are NOT.
Being a mighty nation as we are, we should see to it that our considerate
and kind attitude need not be interpreted as cowardice.
Dealing with matters of national pride and security cannot be forgiven
with 'oops...i am sorry, wont do it again'. This is not their FAther's
personal property that they can take any decisions; they are enjoying
supreme powers, and should be using them with discretion.
What in the world was George Fernandis doing when Pakistan was building up
its positions in Kargil in May99? He was celebrating the Silver Jubilee of
first ever Railway strike called by him, in BOmbay. What is his
qualification? How well is he educated and informed that he can make
irresponsible statements like this? It is the losers or the ones who are
on the verge of being defeated who start talking in tones of compromise.
I think right from Nehru to George Fernandis, everybody wants to act as a
Crusader of Peace, a Messiah who forgives his enemies and embraces them.
Well tell those bastards that the days of playing a magnanimous Wild West
Cowboy are over, and shut the fuck up if they dont know what to speak and
when to speak.
Tulsidas19
http://armedforces.nic.in/armedforces/nahist.htm
India's maritime history predates the birth of western civilisation.
The world's first tidal dock is believed to have been built at Lothal around
2300 BC during the Harappan civilisation, near the present day Mangrol
harbour on the Gujarat coast. The Rig Veda, written around 2000 BC, credits
Varuna with knowledge of the ocean routes commonly used by ships and
describes naval expeditions using hundred-oared ships to subdue other
kingdoms. There is a reference to Plava, the side wings of a vessel which
give stability under storm conditions: perhaps the precursor of modern
stabilisers. Similarly, the Atharva Veda mentions boats which were spacious,
well constructed and comfortable.
In Indian mythology, Varuna was the exalted deity to whom lesser mortals
turned for forgiveness of their sins. It is only later that Indra became
known as the King of the Gods, and Varuna was relegated to become the God of
Seas and Rivers. The ocean, recognised as the repository of numerous
treasures, was churned by the Devas and Danavas, the sons of Kashyapa by
queens Aditi and Diti, in order to obtain Amrit, the nectar of immortality.
Even today the invocation at the launching ceremony of a warship is
addressed to Aditi.
The influence of the sea on Indian kingdoms continued to grow with the
passage of time. North-west India came under the influence of Alexander the
Great, who built a harbour at Patala where the Indus branches into two just
before entering the Arabian Sea. His army returned to Mesopotamia in ships
built in Sind. Records show that in the period after his conquest,
Chandragupta Maurya established an Admiralty Division under a Superintendent
of Ships as part of his war office, with a charter including responsibility
for navigation on the seas, oceans, lakes and rivers. History records that
Indian ships traded with countries as far as Java and Sumatra, and available
evidence indicates that they were also trading with other countries in the
Pacific and Indian Oceans. Even before Alexander there were references to
India in Greek works, and India had a flourishing trade with Rome. The Roman
writer Pliny speaks of Indian traders carrying away large quantities of gold
from Rome, in payment for much-sought exports such as precious stones,
skins, clothes, spices, sandalwood, perfumes, herbs and indigo.
Trade of this volume could not have been conducted over the centuries
without appropriate navigational skills. Two Indian astronomers of repute,
Aryabhatta and Varahamihira, having accurately mapped the positions of
celestial bodies, developed a method of computing a ship's position from the
stars. A crude forerunner of the modern magnetic compass was being used
around the fourth or fifth century AD. Called Matsya Yantra, it comprised an
iron fish that floated in a vessel of oil and pointed North.
Between the fifth and tenth enturies AD, the Vijaynagaram and Kalinga
kingdoms of southern and eastern India had established their rule over
Malaya, Sumatra and Western Java. The Andaman and Nicobar Islands then
served as an important midway point for trade between the Indian peninsula
and these kingdoms, as also with China. The daily revenue from the eastern
regions in the period 844-848 AD was estimated at 200 maunds (eight tons) of
gold. In the period 984-1042 AD, the Chola kings dispatched great naval
expeditions which occupied parts of Burma, Malaya and Sumatra, while
suppressing the piratical activities of the Sumatran warlords. In 1292 AD,
Marco Polo described Indian ships as " ...built of fir timber, having a
sheath of boards laid over the planking in every part, caulked with oakum
and fastened with iron nails. The bottoms were smeared with a preparation of
quicklime and hemp, pounded together and mixed with oil from a certain tree
which is a better material than pitch."
A fourteenth century description of an Indian ship credits it with a
carrying capacity of over 100 people, giving a fair idea of both the
shipbuilding skills and the maritime ability of seamen who could
successfully man such a large vessel. Another account of the early
fifteenth century describes Indian ships as being built in compartments so
that even if one part was shattered, the rest remained intact, enabling the
ship to complete her voyage - a forerunner of the modern day subdivision of
ships into watertight compartments; a concept then totally alien to the
Europeans.
more at the above site
Tulsidas19
> > Laloo, Jaylalitha, Sonia are on a long flight in Air India.
> > Jaylalitha pulls out a Rs.100/- and says 'I'm going to throw this
> > Rs.100/- out and make someone down below happy.'
> >
> > Sonia, not wanting to be outdone, says, 'If that was my Rs.100/- , I
> > would split it into 2 Rs.50/-and make two people down below happy.'
> >
> > Of course Laloo doesn't want these two candidates to out do him, so he
> > pipes in, 'I would instead take 100 Rs.1/- and throw them out to make
> 100
> > people just a little happier.'
> >
> > At this point the pilot, who has overheard all this bragging and can't
> > stand it anymore, comes out and says, 'I think I'll throw all three of
> > you out of this plane and make 900 million people happy.
> >
> >
>
>
>
Tulsidas19
BY Varsha Bhosle
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/21varsha.htm
Can't kid myself anymore: it's a full-blown obsession. It's, like,
scrambling awake at 5 am, knowing very well there's no fresh briefing at
that hour; it's in knowing Colonel Bikram Singh's every pause and glare;
it's in the acquiring of a new bestfriend, poor Chindu; it's in the waiting
for certain mail as if for a lover's caress; it's in the keeping track of
contributions (only Rs 909,884 and $ 9,647); it's in the counting of hours
for Kargil to open; it's in the Flo Nightingale fantasies. Above all, it's
stamped on all the faces around me: You've become so one-dimensional... The
only one not surprised is my mom. She remembers the child beseeching cousin
Vivekdada to take her to his cadet school: "Don't you wonder why you were so
besotted with him? I'd made the mistake of reading Mahabharat when I was
carrying you."
So I gave it some thought. Hmm... either you feel or you don't. Thing is, if
you do feel, you've felt it right from the beginning -- it's not an acquired
trait. It's what made 10-year-old Nachiketa plead for a military uniform --
and make it his forever. One can convince a child to become a doctor,
lawyer, businessman -- the incentives range from money and fame, to power
and service, to knowledge and tradition, to whatever. But one can't make him
join the army: What does one say, You can die while protecting the
country...?
It's like the arts -- *he* must want it. And then you can't keep him away.
That's how my discharged nephew's made himself available for duty. I'm
preening! And devastated that my own life went so astray...
It's only concepts -- patriotism, nationalism -- that drive soldiers. Maybe
that's why they're such targets for pinkos. How many times have we read on
this very site that "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"...? You
can't explain to them how the inviolability of your country becomes the only
important thing. You can't explain why a piece of frozen land is more
significant than the life of an individual -- whether a soldier or a
Tata/Birla. And why, on that very scale, the fallen soldier evokes far more
anguish than any other individual ever will -- why it feels like you've lost
a beloved member of your family.
And when the soldier is tortured so horrendously? It's inconceivable to find
parallels! For it's not just your brother, your friend brutalised, it's not
just any crime, it's Mother India raped. Without these few good men, there
is no India; no family, no society, no laws -- Nothing.
Do you think I'm over-reacting? Ok, heed the nuances in these sentences and
tell me whether the piece appeared in Dawn, Frontier Post, Washington Post
or NYT: "According to the government, it all started with heavily armed
Pakistan-backed intruders... Pakistan has been accused of utilising the
natural lull in Indian preparedness... in the present make-believe world,
the fate of Kashmir is being decided by India and Pakistan. The Kashmiri
people have not been given even a marginal role. It is strange that JKLF or
militants fighting for Kashmir's liberation are nowhere in the picture. The
all-embracing label of 'intruder' has possibly engulfed the whole force,
fighting for the autonomy of Kashmir."
The author is Ashim Chatterjee, general-secretary of the Communist
Revolutionary League of India and a former Naxal leader. The publication is
The Asian Age, of June 9...
On that day, even the criminals lodged in Tihar offered their blood to the
jawans wounded in the fight against Pakistan. On that day, The Daily
Telegraph confirmed that regular Pakistani troops, too, were involved in the
intrusion.
But scumbags live in a different world: "When national chauvinism reigns
supreme, truth is the first casualty. Even when our jet fighters and
helicopter were shot down and pilots captured, our government would have us
believe that we did not violate Pakistan's air space... The bogey of
'country in danger' has paid handsomely in the past... one should also
ponder over the real identity of these intruders. The answer may lead to a
very different story."
On that day, Indian casualties stood at 60 killed, 217 injured, and 14
missing. WHAT other story can there be?
Tarique Niazi wrote in The Frontier Post, "[The] rationality in Pakistan's
position has the majority of Indians re-looking at the Kashmir conflict in
terms of 'justice'. In survey after survey, the majority of Indians have
come to believe that the cost of keeping Kashmir is higher than leaving it
alone."
What survey? What "justice"? Who wants to cede Siachen? Who wants the JKLF
"in the picture"? Who gives Pakis these ideas?! Scratch an anti-India
argument -- and out jumps a pinko. It's like Raj says, "Bombay's just a
bunch of buildings, Kerala's just a bunch of coconut trees, let them have it
all. Let's just roll over and die. Just like we did when all those
barbarians came over the Khyber and Bolan Passes since time immemorial."
Elle Duce declared that Pakistan dared to attack India only because the
Vajpayee government was "weak and unstable." Balasaheb retorts, "PoK didn't
come into existence during Vajpayee's tenure." We all know how many thousand
square kms were given away by whose mother-in-law and grandfather-in-law and
to whom. Nehru's 1948 plebiscite fiasco is still stalking us. So zip it.
I've no doubt in my mind that the Kargil attack -- planned in 1985 by
Brigadier Azizuddin -- was implemented in 1999 precisely because they *knew*
that all these secular patriots and their media flunkies would actively work
against a BJP government -- and thus help Pakistan succeed: A harassed,
distracted government can't grip warfare by the balls. But Pak hadn't
counted on nationalist grit...
Now there's a new issue: Election postponement. Ok, we aren't exactly a
banana republic -- but from where is Advaniji going to conjure up the
paramilitary troops? Frankly, I can't understand the hesitation. I'm a
ghaati; I've been saying since day one: Declare emergency, gag the media,
wallop the pinkos, hog-tie Natwar Singh (the guy's wayy out of control), and
concentrate on the LoC.
Oh yeah, forgot the Pomeranian: "Een they aul paarty meeting hayld een
Delhi, he did not tayl us that they shichuashaan resembeld a waur. But
shortly aphterwaurds he made they statemint at a tradors meeting, what does
it mean! They PM oph they contry shood not uttair such statemints as it wood
haf implicashaans. Iph it ij a waur, let it be dealt accordingly. They
inphiltrashaan not only deemonstrated puaar work oph they intellijaance
agenshies but it ij also a lapse on they part oph they Gaavermint."
I tell you, only the Shroud -- through her mystic powers and love for this
"vaataan" -- can understand Pranab Mukherjee.
On Thursday, the CWC met to ponder on the BJP's "politicising Kargil" (don't
demand specifics; aren't any). You've seen the front page photos of the
Shroud handing over a cheque to the widow of a slain pilot? Someone should
inform Sonia about the need to distribute funds among the families of all
the martyrs and the various orgs that do it. But unpublicised donations,
shorn of photo ops, would hardly serve her patriotic purpose. Back where I
come from, we call it chhotepan ki nishaani...
Then there was the Inflatable Bus: "In an utterly insensitive gesture,
completely inappropriate to a time when armed forces personnel were dying in
the Kargil sector, Congress supporters displayed in Delhi a structure of the
shape and size of an overturned bus, which had written on it
'Delhi-Lahore-Kargil: Atal-George Pvt Ltd Co.' This cheap take-off created
such a strong feeling of revulsion that the 'bus' was taken off the road,"
writes Hiranmay Karlekar.
Then we saw the Shroud flutter into Kala Vihar in East Delhi, ostensibly to
commiserate with shaheed Lt Hanifuddin's family. For an hour, residents in
the vicinity were forbidden to venture into their balconies, office-goers
couldn't leave for work, and all vehicles were s hifted out. One resident
fumed, "The security guards took over the apartments at 7.30 and started
ordering people to move around. But Gandhi only came after 9.30 am and it
was for almost three hours that we were unnecessarily troubled." Do we need
these tacky publicity stunts at this time?
Actually, she doesn't have the brains to even politicise Kargil! After all,
at the all-important AICC session, she played and replayed the same old
dirge of her family tragedies (Mrs G dying in her lap, etc), forgetting all
about the ongoing border conflict. Priorities... priorities...
But *I* know how to do it. Here's my new campaign: "Why Flight Lt Nachiketa
is better suited to be prime minister." I admit, it's a difficult task, for
there's no more perfect being than the Great White Hope. But, I can always
try:
SACRIFICE: Sonia has sacrificed everything throughout her life -- the
comforts of European climes, the status of an au pair for that of the First
Bahu, her privacy, her natural aversion to high office, her inclination to
only serve the party, even her own resignation. She has also sacrificed her
self-respect: Sonia and her offspring are forced to live in free government
housing because the taxpayer demands it. OTOH, Nachiketa flies dangerous
sorties for his country, was shot down and held captive in Pakistan, and is
ready to face death again. Ok, so no Indian doubts his selflessness... but
is it enough?
EDUCATION & EXPERIENCE: Sonia -- None & None. But why harp on negatives?
Nachiketa -- At least knows how to fly a MiG-27.
INDIANNESS: Er... umm... ah...
VIEWS: There's no issue on which anyone can allege that Sonia has any view
at all. Nachiketa has to have had some view to make him join the IAF.
DIVINITY: Although it's impossible for any mortal to challenge the Oracle of
Delphi's powers, we can safely assume that Nachiketa has a modicum of divine
blessings, those which brought his back alive.
REGIONAL INTEGRATION: Sonia speaks more Hindi than Karunanidhi, and we need
a Hindi-speaking person from the North to combat the Darth Maul forces which
are rearing their head there. And, since her husband knowingly sacrificed
himself in the South, she's a sacrificing widow of the South. OTOH,
Nachiketa is the heart of India, the beating kind...
DIPLOMATIC SKILLS: Since journalists have never heard Sonia utter a single
word out of place -- indeed, a single word even in place -- it proves her
competence. However, in Pakistan, Nachiketa, too, was exhibited to journos,
including BBC and CNN's, and kept his counsel.
COURAGE: To what else can one attribute Sonia's bid for
prime-ministership -- without having any education and experience at all nor
sufficient support? OTOH, after crashing in Pakistani territory, Nachiketa
tried to escape and fired eight rounds from his 9mm pistol when enemy troops
located him. (Ok, Sonia wins this one.)
LOYALTY TO COLLEAGUES: Sonia so very considerately and without an eye on
personal interests let Sitaram Kesri retire gracefully. Nachiketa only
strayed into enemy territory to save the life of Squadron Leader Ajay Ahuja.
PERSONALITY: Nachiketa does not wave his arms around like a windmill at the
people who receive him at airports. Does not leave difficult situations "in
a huff." Gait and sartorial style are his own. No huge sweat stains
underarms.
MASS FOLLOWING: For Congressmen, Sonia is Ma, Devi, Obi-Wan, Yoda. As for
the janata, all her rallies evince its spontaneous response: In Rajahmundry,
the Congress booked 9,200 buses and lorries for the purpose of spontaneous
collection of spontaneous supporters; even the RTC was requisitioned for
another 1,260 buses for further spontaneous transportation. Nachiketa, I'm
sorry to say, loses this round
P.S: If you have more candidates, mail details to the eunuchs HQ.
For Online Transfer of Funds in India & Abroad
Any where in the world in US Dollars
To send remittance for the contributions towards the Army Central Welfare
Fund Account, Kargil, the remitter must instruct there bankers with the
following instructions:-
Pay: First Union Bank International, 180 Maiden Lane,18th Floor, NY 10038,
New York, USA
Swift Code: PNBPUS3NNYC
Routing Number: (FEDWIRE ABA) - 021000021
CHIPS UID No: 340828 for Credit of Account No 2000191000069
ICICI Banking Corporation Ltd: Account No. 01/6823 at New Delhi, INDIA
Name and Address of the remitter to be positively given.
On Line Transfer in India
To deposit the cheque at any branch at the following centres of ICICI Bank
in India for credit of Savings Bank Account Number 01/6823 of the Army
Central Welfare Fund with New Delhi Branch.
On the back of the cheques the contributor should write his name and address
for issuance of the receipt by the Deputy Director, CW-8, AHQ, New Delhi.
Cheques should be drawn favouring ICICI Bank Account Army Central Welfare
Fund.
Tulsidas19
http://www.hinduismtoday.kauai.hi.us/htoday.html - June 20,1999
by Sally Macdonald
Seattle Times religion reporter
Saturday, June 19, 1999
The small group couldn't help but wonder as they eased the statue of Ganesa,
the
elephant-faced Hindu deity, out of the moving van. That very day a revered
swami was in town, and he was available to help with the welcoming ceremony.
Hindus don't call that good luck. That's good karma.
Karma is the Hindu philosophy of cause and effect. What goes around, comes
around.
That's how Hindu faithful explain the sublime timing of the visit of Satguru
Sivaya
Subramuniyaswami, one of Hinduism's most prominent sages, and the
long-awaited arrival of Ganesa, a granite statue from India that will be the
focal point of a temple and Hindu community center on the Eastside.
The temple will help unite the 16,000 Indian immigrants who have settled in
Washington, said Nitya Niranjan, a Seattle real-estate agent. Many arrived
within the past 10 years to work in the high-tech businesses of Seattle's
Eastside suburbs and were disappointed to learn Hindu services were held
only once a
month, in rented quarters or homes.
Welcoming committee
Niranjan is a member of a committee formed about 10 years ago to change all
that. They plan to build a 5,000-square-foot temple and community center on
4 acres of land they bought at 212th Street and 39th Avenue Southeast in
Bothell.
About a dozen people, including Niranjan, gathered Wednesday to help movers
ease the 1,700-pound statue of Ganesa (pronounced ga-naysha) out of a moving
van. It was brought from the airport to a temporary place of honor
at a Bellevue medical clinic.
"He looks beautiful here," said Dr. Virender Sodhi when Ganesa was finally
in place in the entryway of Sodhi's Ayurvedic and Naturopathic
Medical Clinic. "Like he belongs here."
Ayurveda is the traditional system of medicine Hindus have practiced for
centuries.
Led by Subramuniyaswami, the committee members and their families, many
dressed in traditional Indian clothing, welcomed the 3-foot-tall statue with
flowers, prayers, ancient hymns and paper plates full of payasam, a ritual
dish of sweetened rice infused with fragrant saffron.
World's oldest faith
Subramuniyaswami, also known as Gurudeva, is the American-born spiritual
master of about 40 temples on five continents. He makes his home
on a 51-acre temple-monastery on the Hawaiian island of Kauai, where he
publishes an international magazine, Hinduism Today, and plans a grand
temple of his own to God Siva, the Hindu "creator, preserver and destroyer
of
all existence."
Gurudeva was in Bellevue to sign copies of his book, "Merging with Siva:
Hinduism's Contemporary Metaphysics." He and several monks were on their way
to Alaska to dedicate a new temple in Anchorage.
Hinduism is generally thought to be the world's oldest faith, with roots
among the Stone Age people of the Indus Valley. It is the major religion of
India - about 80 percent of India's people are Hindu - and there are another
30 million Hindus scattered about the world.
During the past century, Hinduism has been part of a spiritual renaissance,
as Westerners have delved into Eastern philosophy.
But with thousands of sects preaching differing philosophies, Hinduism also
is among the most misunderstood religions, said Acharya Palaniswami, the
editor of Hinduism Today and one of the monks traveling with Gurudeva.
A revered writer
Westerners in particular tend to think Hindus worship many gods. There is
only one God, Palaniswami said: Siva. However there are other beings in the
Hindus' heavenly pantheon, such as Ganesa.
The four-armed statue with the elephant's head and the enormous potbelly
that now greets patients of Sodhi's medical clinic is recognized by more
Hindus than any other divine entity in Siva's spirit world.
He is revered as the writer of the Mahabharat, the Hindu epic that includes
the Bhagavad Gita, a familiar piece to many Westerners.
Ganesa also is known as the "lord of obstacles."
"If you want something and you find obstacles in your way, it is he who put
them there, perhaps to tell you to look in another direction," Niranjan
said. "If there are no obstacles, it's the right thing to do."
"Whenever you want something, you do a little prayer to Ganesa," he said.
"You do a little prayer to him for peace of mind, health and wealth."
Niranjan's committee has raised $450,000 to build the Bothell temple, mostly
through selling tickets to Indian classical dance or musical programs or
having carnivals and community dinners. In all, he said, about 5,000 people
have donated.
A godly vehicle
The committee has the building permits and hopes to begin soon.
The planners ordered the statue of Ganesa from artisans in the village of
Mahabalipuram, India, about six months ago.
"We have been waiting so long for him, it's hard to realize he's finally
here," Niranjan said. "He's just a little statue now, but he will be given
life in a special ceremony once we build a temple for him. Then he will be a
physical
vehicle through which God can finally communicate with his people."
Tulsidas19
http://www.india-today.com/itoday/28061999/cover.html
From the ashes of the dead rise the tales of India's heroes. Struggling to
cope, their grieving but proud families impart India with some of their
pride.
By Samar Harlarnkar and Harinder Baweja
When you go home, tell them of us and say, for your tomorrow, we gave our
today.
The fallen soldier's elegy lies in Kohima, Nagaland, carved on stone nearly
half a century ago. The writing is fading, but as India showed in an
unprecedented outpouring of public grief, there is really no need for a
reminder.
They gathered in a misty valley in Haldwani, Garhwal. Hundreds of them
perched precariously on rocky bluffs, silently clutching every manner of
flower -- exotic rhododendron to humble bougainvillea. Every shop in
Nainital and its hinterland was closed as its fallen son, Major Rajesh
Adhikari of 18 Grenadiers, his face blackened from sunburn, was sprinkled
with ghee and consigned to the flames of Chitrashila, a holy 500-year-old
riverside funeral ground.
Likewise they gather in dusty villages, decrepit towns and teeming cities,
red-eyed strangers who come together in a moment of remembrance for the
fallen soldier who comes home in a coffin made of plywood, in some cases
from the empty wooden boxes meant for ammo. Some 106 of them came home to
tears and memories of those who waited. Yes, families and communities bear a
heart-rending pain but beyond that, honour and pride in their dead is
creating a oneness of purpose in a divided, cynical nation. The battle in
the world's highest mountains is no "skirmish" or "operation", as the
politicians and diplomats gingerly call it. The toll rises every day. The
dreaded regret of the President of India is expressed through official
messengers a few times every day as another family loses a son, a father, a
brother, an uncle. The Last Post is becoming a familiar tune.
Kargil is simply one of the harshest wars the Indian Army has fought. Unlike
1965 and 1971, there are no tanks to back infantry, no air strikes to call
in whenever soldiers are pinned down. There is nowhere to run in the craggy,
vertical battleground. That is why the tales of valour are so striking. The
few soldiers featured here -- only a random selection of the heroes
considered for gallantry awards -- knew there was a good chance they were
not coming back, not going home to their children, wives, parents and
friends. All these men made the final charge, took the final bullet -- and
the enemy with them.
The war is slow and hard. The heights will be cleared one day, but until
then the brutal truth is that many more will die. Remember them. It's the
least India can do.
Major Rajesh Adhikari, 29 Major Vivek Gupta, 29 Naik Raj Kumar Punia, 23
Sepoy Raswinder Singh, 22 Capt Amol Kalia, 25 Lt-Col R Vishwanathan, 39
more at the above site.
Tulsidas19
Second opinion / Ajoy Bagchi
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
The ultimate game plan of the Saudi-Pakistan Army-Mujahideen nexus is not
limited to "liberating" Kashmir but to subsume Hindu India into Islamic
hegemony in the east.
+++
This is apropos of the article, "Looking beyond Kargil' (June 18) by Aarti.
She thinks that if Mr Nawaz Sharif is able to "control the Pakistani hawks",
then a "constructive and transparent agenda", beneficial for both the
countries, is possible. But her vision is limited to "territorial integrity"
. This limitation also characterises the thinking in South Block. Kargil
highlights the need for a more wide-ranging and sweeping vision of our
future geopolitics.
Paraphrasing the poet John Donne, in today's global society, no nation is
"an island complete unto itself'. That being so, a nation may ignore the
impact of emerging geopolitical trends of other nations at its own peril. A
nation's future should be conceptualised not only in the limited terms of
its physical territory but also from the much broader perspective of its
civilisational identity. The US is a secular polity with the Church and the
State separated. But it is viewed by Islamic fundamentalists as the epitome
of Christiandom and denigrated as an infidel power. We project ourselves as
secular but are persistently labelled as "Hindu" India. These are
civilisational inheritances and cannot be jettisoned easily. This insight
demands that we accommodate this civilisational identity within our
geopolitical framework while ensuring that no individual feels compelled to
prove his identity as Indian in terms of nation and civilisation.
Samuel P Huntington spoke of the future conflicts being civilisational in
texture. According to him, Kashmir is a "civilisational faultline". His
prognostication was derided because of the inability to perceive the
totality of civilisational future in a time-frame spanning centuries. Kargil
seems to reinforce his prediction. During the past 52 years, border
incidents in J&K are common and the daily exchange of fire across the LoC is
routine.
What started as an avaricious exercise to grab territory is now a complex
conflict because of its roots extending beyond Pakistan into West Asia.
Flush with money after the 1973 oil price hike, Saudi Arabia started
promoting Islamic conservatism the world over using its money power.
Military coups have plagued Pakistan for long. They enabled the Army to
acquire centrality in Pakistan's national polity. A paradigm shift came
about when General Zia-ul-Haq overthrew Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. He sought his
strength from the Army and the ulemas. He suspected the Army's loyalty and
leaned more on the ulemas and initiated the process of Islamisation of the
Army. Two disparate institutions were thus drawn together, each with its own
interests.
When the Soviets, refusing to learn from the American experience in Vietnam,
stepped into Afghanistan, the US sought to contain their advance and the
Saudis wanted to save Islam from danger. For both, Pakistan was a handy
tool. One poured in the arms and the other the money. The upshot was the
Saudi funded and Pakistan trained fundamentalist Talibans (read
"Mujahideens"). After their success in Afghanistan, they eyed the Balkans.
Failing to make a mark there, they have now turned eastward to Kashmir.
Obsessed with their humiliation by Hindu India, the Pakistan Army wanted
just that. The two formed a nexus and, cold shouldering Nawaz Sharif,
launched the jehad in Kargil. In this plan of enlarging Islamic hegemony by
force, Pakistan's politico-civil structure's role is reduced to hawkish
posturing. With its national economy debilitated, Pakistan's military
adventures are sustained by Saudi money power. The ultimate game plan of the
Saudi-Pakistan Army-Mujahideen nexus is not limited to "liberating" Kashmir
but to subsume Hindu India into Islamic hegemony in the east.
The disquieting view from Kargil's icy heights is of the coming
civilisational clashes. In this context, the canvas of our strategic
thinking should not be narrowly sectoral but large enough to accommodate the
broad brush-strokes of critical dimensions other than territorial integrity.
Tulsidas19
Friday January 8th 1999
India Abroad News Service BANGALORE - Nearly two decades after marine
archeologists found the lost city of Dwarka off the coast of Gujarat the
state government continues to drag its feet on a proposal to establish the
world's first underwater museum to view the remains of the city submerged in
the Arabian Sea.
The proposal for the museum, submitted by the Marine Archeology Center of
the National Institute of Oceanography (NIO) in Goa, involves laying a
submarine acrylic tube through which visitors can view through glass windows
the ruins of the city said to have been be ruled by Sri Krishna, 3,500 years
ago.An alternative suggestion is to have acrylic wells, to be accessed
through boats, from which the remains can be viewed.Another proposal that
remains on paper is for setting up a marine archeology museum of Dwarka
antiquities found in the sea.
Discovered in 1981, the well-fortified township of Dwarka extended more than
half a mile from the shore and was built in six sectors along the banks of a
river before it became submerged. The findings are of immense cultural and
religious
importance to India.
"The search for the lost city has been going on since 1930," S.R. Rao,
former adviser to the NIO who is still actively involved in the excavations,
told India Abroad. "It is only after marine archaeologists started exploring
the seabed near modem Dwarka from 1981 that the structural remains of the
city were found."
Rao said that if a fraction of the funds spent on land archeology were made
available for under-water archaeology, more light could be thrown on Dwarka,
which had much archeological signifi-cance because it was built during the
second urbanization that occurred in India after the Indus Valley
civilization in northwestern India. Dwarka's existence disproves the belief
held by Western archeologists that there was no urbanization in the Indian
subcontinent from the period between 1700 B.C. (Indus Valley) and 550 B.C.
(advent of Buddhism). As no information was available about that period,
they had labeled it the Dark Period.
Among the objects unearthed that proved Dwarka's connection with the
Mahabharata epic was a sea engraved with the image of a three-headed
animal.The epic mentions such a seal given to the citizens of Dwarka as a
proof of identity when the city was threatened by King Jarasandha of the
powerful Magadh kingdom (now Bihar).The foundation of boulders on which the
city's walls were erected proves that the land was reclaimed from the sea
about 3,600 years ago. The epic has references to such reclamation activity
at Dwarka. Seven islands mentioned in it were also discovered submerged in
the Arabian Sea.
Pottery, which has been established by thermoluminiscence tests to be 3,528
years old and carrying inscriptions in late Indus Valley civilization
script; iron stakes and triangular three-holed anchors discovered here find
mention in the Mahabharata.
"The findings in Dwarka and archeological evidence found compatible with the
Mahabharata tradition remove the lingering doubt about the historicity of
the Mahabharata," said Rao. 'We would say Krishna definitely existed." What
is needed, he added, is the political will to reconstruct the cultural
history of the Vedic and epic periods of northern India.
The maritime museums at sites of ' wrecks and submerged ports are absolutely
essential, and portable antiquities should be conserved properly, lie
emphasized. If the proposal to have a maritime museum is accepted by the
Gujarat government, it would be the first of its kind in India, he pointed
out.Recounting the start of exploration for Dwarka, Rao said, "We carried
out the original survey with just four scuba divers, while the operation
called for the services of around 200 divers and other staff."But for the
work to progress now, more equipment is needed, besides funds
andtime,hewarned,adding:
"We need two barges, one mounted with a crate, and equipment such as an
airlift. We need 30 or 40 divers and engineers. The work should go on for at
least six months and cannot be halt-ed midway."
According to Rao, the project would need at least Rs. 20 million
($476,000).Funds would have to be provided by the Gujarat government and its
tourism department Other possible sources are the federal Depart-ment of
Ocean Development (DOD), which organizes big projects such as expeditions to
Antartica, the Department of Science and Technology (DST) and the Council
for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), which have not contribute
much, Rao said.
"The findings in Dwarka and archeological
evidence found compatible with the Mahabharata
tradition remove the lingering doubt about the
historicity of the Mahabharata. We would say that
Krishna definitely existed" S.R. Rao.
Hare Krishna
Tulsidas
Caleb Suresh
>
> UNDERWATER MUSEUM, IN DWARKA YET TO SURFACE
> Friday January 8th 1999
>
> India Abroad News Service BANGALORE - Nearly two decades after marine
> archeologists found the lost city of Dwarka off the coast of Gujarat
> "The findings in Dwarka and archeological evidence found compatible with the
> Mahabharata tradition remove the lingering doubt about the historicity of
> the Mahabharata," said Rao. 'We would say Krishna definitely existed."
Has anyone wondered why this city was submerged in the first place?
If it is really Dwarka that was discovered it proves that the story of
Noah and the Ark written in the Bible is true.
That the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and
they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose (Genesis chapter 6,
verse 2). God saw that the earth had become corrupt and was filled with
violence (verse 11) and God greived that he made man and decided to wipe
him out from the face of the earth along with all the creatures (verse
6). But Noah found favor in the eyes of God (verse 8). God instructed
Noah to build an ark (a huge wooden box the size of 140 x 23 x 13.5
meters) and had him and his family enter the ark along with two of all
living creatures, male and female (verse 18, 19). He sent rain on the
earth for forty days and forty nights and bloated out every living thing
that he had made (Genesis 7:4). The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of 20 feet (7:20).
Caleb Suresh.
http://caleb.net
-- It is natural to be religious but supernatural to be a Christian --
Tulsidas19
BY Sonia Chopra
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/25us1.htm
One recent afternoon, Vikram got upset. The five-year-old had lost his
favorite baseball glove. He retreated to the corner, took a long deep breath
and resumed his search. He didn't find it. He chanted, " aum, aum.'' And
went back to look for it. Still, no luck. He stayed calm.
"In the past, he would throw himself on the ground, moving his legs up and
down like an inverted cockroach," said his mother Sushma Verma, 37,
laughing.
"But ever since he took a yoga class this spring, he has mellowed. It has
taught him patience and self-control and he is a much happier child," said
Verma of her only child, who eventually found his glove, under some
newspapers on the end table in the living room.
"I was at my wit's end with his tantrums and impatience. A friend suggested
it. It was a week-long thing at a Hindu temple and I am amazed," said Verma,
adding that she has now become an advocate of yoga and encourages her
friends to enroll their children.
Verma, who lives in Chicago, is not alone. One of the best-kept secrets, the
benefits of yoga for children is suddenly no secret at all. It is in fact a
growing trend, which has fueled an industry of training classes, books and
video and audiotapes.
Mushrooming all over America, there are mommy-and-me classes, children's
classes and even weeklong summer camps. One of the factors of its popularity
is that teachers say that the increased awareness, flexibility, strength and
discipline it provides can go a long way in helping them cope with other
sports.
For Adrienne Burke, 31, a teacher and program director at Jivamukti -- a
15-year-old yoga studio in Manhattan -- who has been teaching it for six
years and practising for twelve, yoga is "discipline" and "the simple answer
for dealing with stress and resolving conflict."
"It's a guideline to my life. It keeps me focused and puts things in
perspective, all this with health benefits," she explained passionately and
yet serenely.
"Yoga helps you keep a positive attitude. It's a very, very good thing for
everyone. It's the only way to keep the mind and body connected. The good
feeling inside is actually a blessed feeling and is what yoga is about,"
Burke said.
"Children these days have a lot of stress, peer pressure; sometimes with
both parents working, there are very high expectations placed on them. They
need to be shown that there is a way they can control stress and be at
peace," said Burke. The classes at Jivamukti are $15 for adults and $10 for
children apiece.
A yoga teacher herself, Colleen Saidman, 39, who has been practising yoga
for 15 years, has enrolled her three-year-old daughter Rachael in
Jivamukti's yoga program.
"She's been brought up with it, she been exposed to it ever since she was in
my uterus," Saidman said with a laugh.
"Now she leads the chants in my classes," said Saidman, who has been
teaching yoga since January, after what she describes as a "grueling, very
intense training period."
Saidman, who lives on the West Side in Manhattan in New York, said yoga was
her ''lifeline" and that she "cannot imagine living without it. It shows me
how happiness has to come from inside."
"I love watching her practice. Her control of breath is simply amazing and I
find it beautiful when she is sitting in a corner upset with something and
she chants aum, aum," said Saidman, who added that her daughter "passes the
word on yoga" to her classmates.
For Sandra Storwick, 42, a teacher at Yogacenters, in Bellevue, Washington,
a suburb of Seattle, yoga is a lifestyle, an identity and a way of
recognizing your place in the universe.
"My yoga makes me hold on to myself psychologically. It makes me go inwards
to feel my heart, to touch my feelings. I love myself and it's because I am
at peace spiritually, mentally, physically and emotionally," said Storwick,
who lived in Tamil Nadu 17 years ago, where she first discovered yoga.
Storwick, who teaches children yoga said it is essential for them,
especially when they reach the age of seven. "It keeps them strong, teaches
them to focus, concentrate and gain confidence," she said.
As opposed to other sports, where the "muscles, especially the hamstrings
become very tight, yoga helps them become flexible and therefore allows the
child to excel at other sports," Storwick said.
As an example of yoga "being an anchor" for youngsters, Storwick talks of
her daughter Jennifer, 19, who is a model, currently on assignment in
Europe.
"Yoga gives her the confidence, she meditates when she's upset. It helps her
tremendously," Storwick revealed.
If children are busy and have their schedules planned out, they are less
likely to get into trouble said Neha Kumar, 38, who has two children Akshay,
11, and Natasha, 9, both students of yoga.
"I feel that yoga has given them this feeling of being useful in this world.
It gives them a sense of being and of being important,'' said Kumar, a New
Hampshire housewife, who used to practise yoga in New Delhi where she was
born and bought up. But when she moved to the US a dozen years ago, she gave
it up.
Still, she was determined that her children would have the choice and the
opportunity to pursue it, along with Indian classical dance and music.
Experts say the best thing about yoga is that, unlike other sports, it is
not competitive and this can build bonds between siblings and with other
children.
"I have one daughter who is not that well-coordinated and one who is very
athletic and doing yoga makes them both very comfortable and happy because
they can both accomplish some levels. They appreciate the spiritual
connection and it brings them closer," said Karin Gustafson, 42, whose
daughter Meredith, 12, is athletic and Christine, 9, is not.
Gustafson has been coming to Jivamukti for six years and been practising
yoga for 24, stopping briefly when her children were very young.
"I need to do yoga. It's very important to me. I feel blessed to have this
and my children know that it brings me peace and they understand,'' said
Gustafson, who explained that because of her yoga practice everyone has to
leave the house early and the children "never complain."
Burke offers an explanation for the success of yoga and its ability to
transcend race, age, ethnic background and income levels.
"People are searching for spirituality and they are disillusioned with
religion. Yoga gives them a sense of peace and spiritual being without the
complexities of religion," she elaborates.
She, however, adds a warning: "It's a gradual process. In the beginning it's
hard but if you are consistent, the rewards pour in."
So, s-t-r-e-t-c-h.
RELATED STORIES:
A Typical Kids' Yoga Class
All About Yoga
Yoga Explained For The Beginner
Tulsidas19
Agencies / Islamabad
http://www.the-pioneer.com/test/home1.htm
The Pakistan Army appears to be trying to encourage the revival of the
Khalistan movement in India, so as to divert the Army's attention from from
the Kargil-Dras sector.
Jamaat-i-Islami, which has close links with the Pakistan Army and which has
played a leading role in Islamic militancy in Kashmir, assured a recent
gathering of separatist Sikhs in a Lahore hotel, "do not consider yourselves
alone in the fight for freedom: All the Muslims of the world are with you.''
The Sikh separatists had collected from different parts of the world to
attend a "sang sabha'' organised by Dal Khalsa, Babar Khalsa and
international Sikh Youth Federation in connection with the 15th anniversary
of the Operation Blue Star.
Chief of the Lahore unit of Jamaat-i-Islami Frid Piracha addressed the Sabha
and told the Sikhs that the Muslims were with them. A Jamaat-i-Islami poet
declared at the meeting, "now Jamaat-i-Islami and Sikhs have become one.''
Lahore's Urdu daily 'Pakistan,' captioned the report: "When will Khalsa wake
up?.'' In the Urdu daily Nawa-i-Waqt, former ISI chief Hamid Gul wrote a
long article, saying, "now is the time the Kashmiri Mujahideen established
contacts with Khalistanis."
Tulsidas19
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_200000/200689.stm
By Central Asia Correspondent Louise Hidalgo
A lot has been written about the inheritance of the Soviet years in Central
Asia - but one of the little known legacies has been a great love of Indian
films - particularly in the most populous state of Uzbekistan.
When Moscow ruled in Uzbekistan, Indian films were dubbed in Russian and
shipped south in their thousands.
The films were cheap and offered on generous terms, and marked perhaps the
warm relations between India and the Soviet Union.
As a result, whole generations of Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Kazakhs have been
brought up knowing the great classic Indian actors like Raj Kapoor.
"I liked the films because they were very romantic and the nature was very
beautiful," says Nazibra, a fan of Indian films now in her early thirties.
Huge video market
Seven years after the Soviet Union collapsed, the Uzbek passion for Indian
films continues.
Within months of the release of the latest film in India, Shahrukh Khan,
pirate copies were already on sale in the Uzbek capital, Tashkent.
Most Uzbeks love Indian films
Mohammed Sharif Pat runs a shop selling Indian films near one of Tashkent's
biggest markets. He is an Afghan who brings videos from the Pakistani
frontier town Peshawar.
"There are many people who love Indian films here. I'd say at least 70% of
the people in Tashkent buy them. We sell about 100 videos a day. I've just
had to put in an order for a thousand more," he says.
"The Uzbeks are Central Asians, they are part of Asia. They have a common
culture. That's why they like Indian films."
Cultural ties
The Uzbek town of Andijan was the birthplace of Babur, the first of the
Mughal emperors to conquer Delhi more than 400 years ago.
He was the great-great-great grandson of the man the Uzbeks now regard as
their national hero, the medieval conqueror Timur, or Tamerlane as he is
known in the West.
"There are many things that our two peoples share from that time. They say
the domes of the Taj Mahal had their inspiration in Central Asia. The first
Uzbek theatre was a musical theatre which switched between action and song
in the same way that many Indian films do now," says Saudarkh Hojaiwa, a
leading film critic.
"There are lots of other traditions that we have in common, too. We both
have the same respect for the older members of our society and for the role
of the family. And just like many Indian films, we'd never show a couple
kissing," she says.
Indians astonished
Despite the shared history, for many Indians living in Uzbekistan, the
passion the Uzbeks have for their films and film stars has come as a bit of
a surprise.
India makes more films than any other country
"Wherever we go and meet local dignitaries - even ministers or cabinet
ministers - during our conversation it is always mentioned," says Ashok
Shamer from the Indian embassy in Tashkent.
"This shows that Indian films, culture, songs and especially Raj Kapoor have
been household names here. Most of them can sing some Hindi songs, they may
not know the meaning but their pronunciation is correct and they know the
music," he says.
"I have found out that almost all my neighbours can sing and play Hindi
songs. This was really a big surprise to me when I came to Uzbekistan."
Fading interest
With Uzbekistan's independence, Indian films have begun to lose some of
their prominence.
A Uzbek television programme dedicated to the latest Indian film gossip and
news has recently been cut from three episodes a week to just one.
Young people are turning away from the Indian classics, while the older
generation complains about the violence and realism of some new Indian
films.
But despite this, it is likely to be some time before the American imports
slowly creeping into Uzbek cinema screens have the same place in most
Uzbeks' affections as Indian films.
Tulsidas19
Washington, June 25 (Agencies)
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/260699/detFOR07.htm
Immigrant Indians and Chinese are increasingly making their presence felt in
the US famed Silicon Valley as they run as many as 2,775 companies there,
Wall Street Journal has reported.
According to Anna Lee Saxenian, a Professor of regional development in the
University of California at Berkeley, 58,000 people were employed by these
companies, with 16,598 people working with Indian-led companies alone, last
year, business daily said. These companies had total sales of 16.8 Billion
dollars, of which sales in the Indian-led companies amounted to 3.588
Billion dollars while Chinese-led companies had sales worth 13.237 Billion
dollars, it said.
NoSpamlchow
Tulsidas19 (tulsi...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Indians, Chinese are big players in Silicon Valley
Indians and Japanese are far superior people compared to Chinese!
nkdat...@my-deja.com
"Tulsidas19" <tulsi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Pakistan Parliament summons actresses for singing Indian anthem
>
> http://www.india-today.com/ntoday/1.121.html
>
>
> Earlier, the government arrested and kept the outspoken Friday Times
> editor Najam Sethi under detention without trial for three weeks for
> his alleged anti-Pakistan remarks at a seminar in New Delhi. He was
> released following international uproar over his arrest.
>
27th June, 1999
Journalists’ body slams Pak for victimising Sethi
New York, June 26 (PTI)
The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) has rapped the Sharif
Government in Pakistan for victimising Friday Times editor Najam Sethi
for exposing corruption at high levels and asked the administration to
answer his charges.
In a letter sent to Nawaz Sharif, the committee said it was dismayed to
see the Pakistani Government abusing official powers to punish the
country’s independent Press and demanded that all action against Sethi
be stopped immediately. It also demanded that the government allow the
editor to travel abroad. “Restrictions on Sethi’s travel violate
article 13 of the universal declaration of human rights which
guarantees freedom of movement to all citizens,” it said.
=?iso-8859-1?q?=bd=b5=c1=fa=c2=e0=ba=baxianglonluohan=20=3c=bd=b5=c1=fa=c2=e0=ba=baxianglonluohan=20=3c=bd=b5=c1=fa=c2=e0=ba=bax
NoSpamlchow wrote:
What nuts is NoSpamlchow (impostor?) mumbling?
Tulsidas19
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/290699/detEDI03.htm
It may not be long before Calcutta follows in the footsteps of Mumbai,
Chennai, Pune and other towns to rename itself as Kolkata.
The Left Front government is already said to have approved of the change
although it is still engaged in consultations with representative bodies to
ascertain whether the move has widespread support.
If there is any opposition, it may centre not only on the new name of
Kolkata but also on whether it should be the more formal Kalikata rather
than its colloquial version.
It is not only the city which is sought to be given its long-standing
Bengali name, the state of West Bengal is also expected to be called Paschim
Banga if the changes are enforced by the government.
The body which is pressing for all this has also demanded that Bengali
should be made compulsory up to Class VIII and that road signs and names of
shops should be in that language.
If the new names for Calcutta and West Bengal can be explained in terms of
similar changes elsewhere to reflect their original local pronunciations,
this is not quite true in making Bengali a compulsory subject in schools and
the other directives.
Undoubtedly, an element of linguistic chauvinism is involved in these
suggestions, indicating that the entire move is inspired by an aggressive
"marketisation" of Bengali - to use a term much in vogue - which was absent
earlier.
It is clear that those who want to lay so much emphasis on the language are
acting from an apprehension that it is losing out, perhaps to English and
Hindi.
If this is really the case, a more worthwhile move by them will be to
ascertain why the other languages are gaining ground rather than bolster the
case of Bengali through official measures, which are not always a sure
recipe for success.
Unless the real causes for the decline of Bengali, if this is indeed the
case, are identified, the change of well-known names will be of little help.
It has also to be remembered that a language declines - or is seen to do
so - only when the people speaking it show signs of losing their earlier
reputation.
Bengalis had not bothered about trivialities like changing names when men
like Tagore, Vidyasagar, Bankim Chandra and scores of other stalwarts, who
made the community proud of its past and future, were alive.
Tulsidas19
By Varsha Bhosle
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/28varsha.htm
In this Politically Correct Age, it's an absolute sin to attribute traits to
bunches of people. So naturally, I hold that blacks have beat, Maadoos have
money sense, Sikhs are sexy, and so on. Still, it's all at a scientifically
unproven level and I'm not about to start defending my theories, no matter
how fanatically I believe in them. But I wonder about those systematic
studies of the human psyche, which are used by strategists to understand an
ally or enemy. Are such profiles at all reliable?
Secondly, would an assessor's bias affect the interpretation? What made
Henry Kissinger say to Mao-Tse Tung, "For Ghandi (sic), non-violence wasn't
a philosophical principle, but because he thought the British were too
moralistic and sentimental to use violence against. They are nonsentimental
people... given the character and diversity of the English people,
[nonresistance] was only a way to conduct the struggle against the British."
Moralistic, sentimental, nonsentimental -- as national characteristics.
Freudian mumbo-jumbo, perhaps. But if not, whose assessment was correct,
Gandhiji's or Kissinger's?
Pakistan, whose intelligence agencies were set up by the CIA, engages in a
study of not only the terrain of its operations, but also the psyche of an
adversary in order to predict his reaction. A three-year research was
undertaken by a lieutenant-colonel of the Pakistan army for the Faculty of
Research and Doctrinal Studies in the Command and Staff College, Quetta, to
monitor India's external response pattern and delve into the Indian mind.
Apart from analysis of tactics, organisation and doctrinal aspects, its main
thrust was to understand the "Indian personality."
The paper imputes two traits -- "patience" and "intellectualism" -- which
are of interest. It's no secret that all Pakistan thinks that one Muslim can
beat ten Hindus, but its military establishment now has a "scientific study"
asserting that Indians are patient to a point of absurdity, and that the
Indian's intellectualism results in his supposed reluctance to pick up arms,
because of which he's forced into a strategy of defence based on concepts...
I admit, I thought so, too; and I believed them to be negative factors. Till
Kargil, that is. But the more I ponder Pakistan's military history, and its
present overdrive, and our own retaliatory actions, the more I feel we're
A-Ok. Pakistan is everything we are not -- indeed, they exemplify the
antonyms for "patient" and "intellectual." And frankly, if we're erring at
all, I'd rather we err in the direction of the "Indian" traits. Can't help
it -- it's the Hindu tilt towards buddhi-vaad.
It can't be denied by even Natwar that India has gained a psychological
superiority over Pakistan -- country-to-country, and through the support of
the international community. If war hysteria had been our aim, all Mr
Jaswant Singh had to do was release pictures of the mangled bodies of the
six jawans, and bingo! But India played by the rules and is playing very
cleverly -- consider the calibrated military response to the intrusion, the
revising against evolving situations, the explicit refusal to cede
territory, the resolve to localise the conflict, the rejection of third
party mediation, the continuing endorsement of the Lahore peace process, and
the release of the Musharraf transcripts...
All of which has made Pakistan look like a vicious buffoon state. For it so
unbalanced them that that idiot, Brig Qureshi, admitted to The LA Times that
Pakistani troops are fighting Indian soldiers at the LoC; their equally daft
PM made a nuclear threat; and rocket-scientist Parvez Musharraf declared
there will be no "unilateral withdrawal" from Kargil -- thereby
contradicting all avowals of Pakistan's non-involvement -- and accorded
military honours to a slain Harkat mujahideen... They simply do not know
what to do when faced with restraint and discretion -- characteristics alien
to the jihad mindset.
It's silly to discuss whether or not India should open other fronts or cross
the LoC -- that's for the service chiefs to determine. If you recall, even
Mrs G had to postpone the liberation of Bangladesh on General Sam
Manekshaw's advice. But should we go gung-ho, I've no doubt that Pakistan
will suffer yet another Operation Gibraltar. Even then -- as in the 1947
Operation Gulmarg -- Pakistan had put together a force of "freedom fighters"
(PoK civilians and army regulars) to infiltrate and provoke an uprising in
Kashmir while the Pakistan Army was ready to "defend" the border. No,
Pakistan is not known for originality. For that, they'd need a tad of
intellectualism...
The story of Operation Gibraltar and its adjunct, Operation Grand Slam --
hastily launched when it was realised that Gibraltar was an unmitigated
fiasco -- is a laugh riot from start to finish. Gibraltar was the
infiltration operation, while the latter was the manoeuvre to capture
Akhnur-Jammu. Till today, no one can say why President Ayub blundered into
the war even when his officers were against it, although all evidence points
to then Foreign Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's monomania.
However, one feature becomes clear from reading memoirs of that time:
There's a fault in the Pakistani personality. The Paki is amazingly stupid,
undisciplined and, worst of all, he wilts under pressure. It's precisely
this -- coupled with the "flaws" in the Indian personality, of course --
that led to Pakistan's 1965 humiliation. So, how do I, no psychologist, make
this sweeping statement? Hey, it's history! You be the judge -- while
keeping in mind the recent kukri combat of the Naga Regiment:
* In August 1965, after the infiltrators began attacking posts in Srinagar,
Poonch and Kargil areas, Indian troops dressed like the mujahideen and moved
about in small groups to locate them. When found, they were surrounded and
subjected to mortar fire. The infiltrators, who had received only three
months training and no battle inoculation, panicked and fled.
* In the Rajauri area, the infiltration routes were not kept open by
Pakistani command. We sealed the routes, and they surrendered.
* Phase I of Grand Slam started 20 hours behind schedule. Phase II began 2
days late because General Musa decided to change the commanding officer on
the day it was scheduled to begin.
* On September 6, when the troops under Yahya Khan were about 25 miles from
the strategically vital Akhnur, the patient, intellectualising Indians
attacked across the international border at Jassar and Lahore: Yahya
instantly went on the defensive. Meanwhile, Pak's 13 Lancers had advanced to
where they could see the undefended Akhnur bridge, but since they didn't
receive orders to capture it - they stayed put! 13 Lancers yet have the
milestone at which they halted; it says, "Akhnur, 4 Kilometres."
* At the Jassar bridge, two companies of 3 Punjab, in an enclave across the
Ravi, were attacked by two battalions of our 29 Independent Brigade. 3
Punjab fled across the bridge. In the morning, its commander induced two
tanks and a section of the battalion to cross the bridge. The tanks got
bogged down, and their pictures were published worldwide.
* Pak's Military Operations Directorate indicated to the Special Services
Group the major bridges to destroy, military targets to sabotage and lines
of communications to disrupt. Col SG Mehdi, who had commanded the SSG for
two years, had exaggerated its capabilities -- and refused the task. Gen
Musa could only scream, "You have cheated me!"
* The SSG had agreed to paradrop commandos on three main Indian airbases. On
D-day, officers were randomly picked up and given a perfunctory briefing.
The Adampur airbase team was given a bundle of quarter-inch maps printed in
1923 after they had boarded the aircraft. The Pathankot team was dropped on
the Amritsar Road; its commander couldn't assemble the troops and all of
them eventually surrendered. The Halwara team was dropped on the roof-tops
of a large village. Its commander, too, couldn't assemble his men, but along
with two men, made his way to the airbase. When they reached it, a PAF
aircraft bombed the base.
* When we thrice attacked the two enemy companies deployed across the Jassar
bridge, Pak's 15 Division ordered the bridge to be demolished in such a
hurry that its companies across the Chenab had to abandon all the heavy
weapons -- for us to pick.
* When the commanding officer of 6 Lancers was shot dead on the turret of
his tank, the second in command refused to assume control -- and so did the
rest of the squadron officers. 6 Lancers became paralysed. When the
commander of 24 Cavalry was killed, this regiment, too, went loco.
* Pak's 4 Armoured Brigade secured Mastgarh without opposition, and then,
instead of advancing eastwards, moved towards the Pakistan border.
* 10 FF occupied undefended Bhure Karimpur. The tank squadron supporting the
battalion got bogged down and asked for further operations to be called off
for the day. The request was denied and the brigade was ordered to complete
the mission by night. To this end, the commander asked for -- and
received -- a squadron for flank protection. However, the brigade made no
effort to follow orders.
* Soon after the advance to capture Chima began, the brigade commander
discovered that 4 Cavalry and 10 FF were on wrong routes. He corrected them,
but didn't inform the 12 Cavalry squadron deployed at Lakhna-Kalangar about
the movements. When 10 FF tried to pass through, 12 Cavalry opened fire. 10
FF panicked, abandoned their armoured personnel carriers, rushed past the
brigade HQ -- where the company under command of 4 Cavalry also joined them!
The second in command of the battalion spent the next few days recovering
the abandoned carriers.
* 4 Cavalry, with 11 tanks, reached Mile 32, but got bogged down. The
commanding officer didn't send a runner to the brigade to inform that the
objective had been occupied, and the brigade commander didn't bother to
establish communications. The crew of the swamped tanks collected after
nightfall, and the officer decided that if the brigade didn't link up, he'd
surrender. After sunrise, an Indian jeep came along and a very surprised
Sikh lieutenant saw a dozen empty M 47 Patton tanks lined up. He fetched a
10-man patrol; a white flag was waved; and about a squadron-strength of 4
Cavalry surrendered.
* 24 Cavalry attacked Khem Karan-Bhikkiwind with two companies of 5 FF and a
squadron of tanks. The attack began well, but when one company commander was
killed and the other wounded, both the companies ran back -- firing at their
own men! 24 Cavalry, left without infantry, fled.
Brig (retd) ZA Khan, in his book The Way It Was, writes: "The 1965 war with
India was started by us to force a favourable settlement of the Kashmir
dispute. It ended with the loss of over 5,000 Azad Kashmiris forcibly
recruited and sent as infiltrators... Operation Grand Slam was very near a
success but failed due to commanders and staff officers, from the regimental
to the divisional level, not being alert to the opportunity... The
discipline and the determination of our troops in adversity requires a deep
study. Generally when officers got killed, the troops abandoned their
mission... [Musa and Nur Khan] asked for a ceasefire which was arranged and
came into effect on 23 September."
Our Army says, "Besides losing sizable tracts of Pakistan, Ayub and Musa
lost their credibility and jobs... Pakistan trying to snap up what did not
belong to her had been administered a sharp rap on the knuckles. Pakistan's
allies did their bit to pull her out of a sticky situation. The Chinese
carried out some moves to forward positions and unleashed a propaganda
campaign. The Americans provided some moral and equipment support. That was
all."
So what else is new? Stupid is as stupid does...
Dr. Jai Maharaj
The Hindustan Times
Tuesday, June 29, 1999, Dillee
“marketisation” of Bengali — to use a term much in
vogue — which was absent earlier.
It is clear that those who want to lay so much emphasis
on the language are acting from an apprehension that it
is losing out, perhaps to English and Hindi.
If this is really the case, a more worthwhile move by
them will be to ascertain why the other languages are
gaining ground rather than bolster the case of Bengali
through official measures, which are not always a sure
recipe for success.
Unless the real causes for the decline of Bengali, if
this is indeed the case, are identified, the change of
well-known names will be of little help. It has also to
be remembered that a language declines — or is seen to
do so — only when the people speaking it show signs of
losing their earlier reputation.
Bengalis had not bothered about trivialities like
changing names when men like Tagore, Vidyasagar, Bankim
Chandra and scores of other stalwarts, who made the
community proud of its past and future, were alive.
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for
the educational purposes of research and open
discussion.
Links to similar posts here:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/posts.html
DPurohit
sounds more sexy than Indian.
I will vote for Kalikata.
Dr. Jai Maharaj <address....@web.site> wrote in message
news:Bharat-23...@news.mantra.com...
Tulsidas19
By DINESH KUMAR
http://www.timesofindia.com/today/29edit6.htm
GOD and soldiers, it is said, are only remembered in times of a crisis. Once
the crisis is over, both are promptly forgotten. With India not having
fought a conventional war for the last 28 years, the armed forces have
steadily been relegated to insignificance by the country's polity and
bureaucracy alike.
Instead, successive Union governments have during this period actually sent
the armed forces on humiliating missions in response to situations that were
created by politicians in the first place. In 1984, the Army was forced to
enter the Golden Temple to flush out fanatical elements led by Jarnail Singh
Bhindranwale who incidentally was the creation of certain Congress leaders.
Then in 1987, the Army was pushed into operations in Sri Lanka to fight the
LTTE which had been trained by India at the behest of the political
leadership. Since December 1989, the Army has been fighting Pakistan's proxy
war in Kashmir, which, to put it mildly, is a state with a history of
political and administrative mismanagement.
Thankless People
Worse, for the last decade the armed forces have virtually been singled out
for budgetary cuts due to a resource crunch which again was the creation of
India's economic history of fiscal mismanagement. The result of this 10-year
long negative decline in defence budgetary allocations is there for all to
see : Today, the war-fighting capabilities of the armed forces stand
dangerously compromised. The situation is being compared to the level of
neglect that existed on the eve of the 1962 Sino-Indian war. So much so,
serving officers have often sarcastically commented in private that the only
way to jolt the Indian polity and bureaucracy out of this criminal neglect
might be for us to experience a military defeat.
The shameful state of affairs was commented upon by none other than the Army
chief, General V P Malik, only last week. "If a war is thrust upon us, we
will fight with whatever we have", he had said, referring obviously to our
limitations. An even more bitter remark was made by Lt-General Krishen Pal,
who as the Corps commander in Srinagar is currently heading military
operations in Kargil. "India", he had said in March 1998, "is becoming a
nation of thankless people. A nation that forgets its soldiers will
disintegrate sooner or later. When we send the coffins of our boys back
home, airport authorities do not even allow a ceremonial send off. Contrast
this attitude with a nation like the US which is strong because the services
are given respect".
Indeed, the Indian soldier has met with sorry neglect at every stage : From
inadequate pay and allowances to inferior status and respect in society,
from poor clothing and fighting equipment to miserable living conditions in
field areas, from difficulties in providing a stable education environment
for the children to negligible housing support for the family. The list is
long and endless.
This has inevitably led at every step to a criminal compromise of national
security. Today the situation is such that the army's war fighting
capabilities have been severely downgraded. For example, in 1995, the Indian
Army pointed out that it's deficiencies in war fighting equipment was worth
Rs 13,000 crore owing to a dangerous level of obsolescence in the absence of
any worthwhile modernisation, upgradation and procurement of defence
equipment. In 1996, this figure rose to Rs 17,000 and then leapt to Rs
25.000 crore in 1997.
Costly Neglect
Yet as far back as May 1995, a report of the parliamentary standing
committee on defence had, while regretting "that most of the prioritised
modernisation/ upgradation and re-equipment projects" were still in an
"infancy stage", stated: "Committee feel it necessary to stress that failure
to acquire new equipment each year will only result in an accumulation or
backlog which can become prohibitive and unaffordable...." In April 1997,
the committee further observed that despite the prevailing security
environment, "the defence preparedness has not received the priority it
deserves. The Capital acquisitions have lagged behind the targets visualised
in modernisation and re-equipment plans of the armed forces".
It is more than obvious that we in this country have stopped taking
statements and reports on defence seriously. The politicians are simply not
interested. The bureaucracy does not want to be interested. And since
nothing ever happens, we have come to accept that the situation will be as
it is. This neglect notwithstanding, in the end the armed forces have almost
always delivered. And so when Kargil is over, the nation will go back to
square one --- indifference and unconcern about defence and national
security matters till another Kargil erupts.
RSircar
historical context.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
rsi...@aol.com (RSircar) posted:
>
> Bombay, Madras, Calcutta are names that shoud
> not be changed. Thet have a historical context.
<sarcasm> Slavery should not be
abolished, it has a historical context. </sarcasm>
<sarcasm> Commies should be allowed to
become mafia bosses and dictators, they have
a historical context. </sarcasm>
Jai Maharaj
Latest world news at:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/topnews.html
Om Shanti
Bholu
DPurohit wrote:
> When will we drop the name India and just keep Bharata Barsa? Bharatiya
> sounds more sexy than Indian.
If you look at the Indian Passport it uses the word
Bharat. I don't know about sexy or trendy - it is a
Sanskrit name.
Germany, France, China, Japan all have their names in
their own languages as well in the, now universal, English.
> I will vote for Kalikata.
Any day. City names are different than countries.
You won't find anglicized versions of city names in
Germany, France, China or Japan.
I don't consider it renaming. The English did the
renaming - now they are just reverting to their
usual names.
Bholu
RSircar wrote:
> Bombay, Madras, Calcutta are names that shoud not be changed. Thet have a
> historical context.
Indian history goes back 5 millenia. Now lets
ask what CONTEXT are you talking about.
The last century or two, the last five centuries
or the last millenium....
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> Germany, France, China, Japan all have their names in
> their own languages as well in the, now universal, English.
Actually , each country esp neighbours have theor own name for a country.
For example Germany is Allemagne for French and Duetschland fr germans.
Britain has also many names
India has 3 names, India for the world, Bhratha(am) for it's inhabitants and
Hindustan for west asia. In Turkish and arabic TV, India is invariably
referrred to Hindustan
Tulsidas19
By Kanchan Gupta
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jun/29gupta.htm
It has been a weekend of Le Carre-ian suspense in New Delhi. Did US Deputy
Assistant Secretary of State Gibson Lanpher fly in with a
Washington-brokered "safe passage deal" to end the battle for Kargil, a deal
that would offer a "face-saving" and "honourable exit" to Mian Nawaz Sharif
from what has turned out to be a bloody mess for Pakistan?
To add to the suspense, former Pakistani Foreign Secretary Niaz Naik flew
in, literally in the cover of darkness, and flew out the next morning. Niaz
Naik is a member of the track-two diplomacy gang that junkets around the
world preaching utopian people-to-people friendship, ignoring hostile
realities. But the fact that he flew in on a special aircraft and met
Principal Secretary Brajesh Mishra (and not Inder Kumar Gujral), is ample
evidence that he was playing Nawaz Sharief's emissary.
Did he reiterate the "safe passage" formula that would allow the Pakistani
army regulars and the Islamist thugs who have surreptitiously occupied
Indian positions to escape a premature journey to jahannum?
The government has been quick to clarify that Mr Lanpher was here to merely
brief our people about the discussions he and the C-in-C, US Central
Command, Gen Anthony Zinni, had had in Islamabad. And that Mr Naik had
indeed come here with a message from Mr Sharief, but was told that the
Lahore peace process could be revived only after Indian territory is vacated
of Pakistani intruders and the sanctity of the Line of Control is restored.
In other words, as the slang goes, thanks, but no thanks.
Ever since a trusting India was caught on the wrong foot by the massive
incursion by Pakistani army regulars (this is no longer a refutable fact)
and Islamist thugs on the payroll of the likes of Osama bin Laden, the
government has been consistent in its stand. A hostile act of aggression has
been committed by Pakistan, violating the letter and spirit of the Simla
Agreement and the Lahore Declaration. India will not rest till the
aggressors are evicted from its territory -- the Pakis will have to leave,
dead or alive.
Meanwhile, India will engage nations across the world in pro-active
diplomacy so that nobody has any doubts about who is the real culprit.
This consistency has paid rich dividends. The Vajpayee government has
demonstrated that it is resolute in both peace and war, that it can exercise
extreme restraint in the face of extreme provocation, that unlike in
1947-48, 1965 and 1971, this time around no mercy shall be shown to those
who have violated our motherland.
The Pakistanis can forget the picnic they had when they took over the
Hazratbal shrine during Congress rule. But this firmness has been
demonstrated with the civility that befits a responsible nation and a
nuclear power.
On the other hand, the Pakistanis have responded in the only manner known to
a rogue state. Such is their desperation, they have embarked on a suicidal
route that could well end with the final decimation of a country that was
doomed from birth.
Mohammed Ali Jinnah's "moth-eaten Pakistan" was halved in 1971. The
remaining half is now threatened: Not necessarily by a nuclear strike by
India but by starvation and worse if the IMF decides to spurn Islamabad's
begging bowl.
India's response to the Pakistani aggression, in marked contrast to the
wheedling reaction of the past when victories won by the armed forces on the
battlefield were squandered by Congress leaders on the negotiating table,
has not been without success. The international community, barring those
known for harbouring rabid opinion, has unequivocally held Pakistan
responsible for instigating the Kargil clash and has, equally unequivocally,
pinned responsibility on Pakistan to end the crisis.
For the first time since Jawaharlal Nehru's disastrous decision to take the
Kashmir issue to the UN, a decision taken against the sage advice of Sardar
Patel and for which he did not take his colleagues inside and outside
government into confidence -- the only other person who knew of the
decision, indeed, who is believed to have influenced the decision, was Lord
Mountbatten -- the West has taken a balanced view of sub-continental
affairs.
Till now, the West, especially the US, leaned heavily towards Pakistan,
ignoring Indian interests. This time, to quote an American official, the US
is "leaning heavily on Pakistan" to undo the wrong it has committed. Compare
what Robin Raphael said with what her successors are saying, and you will
know the difference.
In a sense, Indian diplomacy has come of age with the Kargil conflict,
leaving behind the naīve adolescence of the Congress era when nitwits,
living in a make-believe world, would strike self-righteous postures and end
up offending the whole world.
If truth be told, Kashmir was, to use the quaintly sub-continental
expression, "internationalised" when Pakistani intruders ran riot in October
1947 in what was Pakistan's first attempt to smash and grab Kashmir. Nehru
took the issue to the UN. Having done that, you cannot keep on harping that
it is a bilateral issue and that you will not countenance any third party
interference.
Yes, Kashmir is an issue to be settled, ultimately, between India and
Pakistan. In fact, in each of their statements, governments across the
world, both collectively and individually, have reiterated this point. This
by itself indicates a larger, global acceptance of the Indian position
(Pakistan has all along maintained that Kashmir is more than a mere
bilateral issue and raised it at every available multilateral forum).
But what if a recalcitrant and petulant Pakistan refuses to settle the issue
in a civilised manner? It is quite like dealing with your next door
neighbour. For example, your neighbour's dog turns rabid but your neighbour
refuses to put it down. Wouldn't you seek the help of others to achieve that
objective?
In Kargil -- or, for that matter, over Kashmir -- you are not dealing, at
the moment, with a rational, thinking regime but with rabid dogs that are
beyond the pale of civilisation. You can kill the dogs with your army and
your air force, but to wipe out the virus, you need the help of others.
That is the reality. The sooner we accept it, the better it shall be, not
only for the people of India but for the peoples of the sub-continent. Now
that we have international opinion favouring us, we should take the Kashmir
issue to its logical conclusion -- both militarily and diplomatically. India
has not yielded an inch ever since the battle for Kargil began. On the
contrary, by playing the game according to the rules and acknowledging
realities, it has gained in stature.
For the first time, the realities of the battlefield have been acknowledged
and the full force of our military might unleashed, but it was limited to
the express purpose of evicting the intruders. India's success on the Kargil
front is a tribute to our soldiers and officers. Those who have been
lampooning the government for not crossing the LoC or opening another front,
are thankfully not in power.
Similarly, for the first time, realities of global power politics in the
post-Berlin Wall era have been taken into account and a diplomatic
initiative crafted to harness international opinion in India's favour. This
is in sharp contrast to previous governments in Delhi successfully turning
international opinion against India. Credit for our diplomatic success goes
to Principal Secretary Brajesh Mishra and Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh.
Meanwhile, Pakistan is welcome to continue to be belligerent and provide
fodder to a certain Ms Sonia Gandhi who decided to hurl charges against the
government of India at a rally in Mhow instead of attending the all-party
meeting on Kargil called by Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Just shows
how priorities differ from party to party, person to person.
M. Ranjit Mathews
My visa to Turkey calls India Hindistan.
Nightmare23
pakistan to send more islamic terrorists in the
future into Kashmir. Its best to send all these
mullahs straight down to join allah in hell.
Nightmare23
Sambit Basu
OK, so what was the name for them 5 millenia ago?
- Sambit
Bholu
Sambit Basu wrote:
> Bholu <bh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Indian history goes back 5 millenia. Now lets
> > ask what CONTEXT are you talking about.
> > The last century or two, the last five centuries
> > or the last millenium....
>
> OK, so what was the name for them 5 millenia ago?
Not all of these have existed for 5 millenia - certainly
not Calcutta. The point was when you throw out the
word "historical context" what does it mean? I don't
think our history started with British Raj and the only
"historical reason" for preserving Anglicized names is
that the English find it easier to pronounce them.
I would think that actual denizens in Chennai, Mumbai
or Kolkata find these names more palatable. I certainly
prefer Kanpur to Cawnpore.
ANUPAM SINHA
> Not all of these have existed for 5 millenia - certainly
> not Calcutta. The point was when you throw out the
> word "historical context" what does it mean? I don't
> think our history started with British Raj and the only
> "historical reason" for preserving Anglicized names is
> that the English find it easier to pronounce them.
>
> I would think that actual denizens in Chennai, Mumbai
> or Kolkata find these names more palatable. I certainly
> prefer Kanpur to Cawnpore.
>
And I prefer "Jabalpur" over "Jubbulpore".. but "Allahabad" is locally
called "ilahabad". Does anybody think "Allahabad" is Anglicized, and
should be changed to "ilahabad"? Also, shouldn't "Bhopal" be actually
"Bhupal" and "Patna" be "Patliputra"?
Where will all this lead us to? And why? Don't we have other things to
think and worry about?
Bholu
ANUPAM SINHA wrote:
> And I prefer "Jabalpur" over "Jubbulpore".. but "Allahabad" is locally
> called "ilahabad". Does anybody think "Allahabad" is Anglicized, and
No Allahabad is not anlicized. Ilahabad is local avadhi
dialect.
> should be changed to "ilahabad"? Also, shouldn't "Bhopal" be actually
> "Bhupal" and "Patna" be "Patliputra"?
Nope. Bhopal is actually Bhopa (as a 9 year resident there
I can attest to it). Patna, as far as I know is not anglicized.
What it should be "actually" is up to the citizens of Bihar.
> Where will all this lead us to? And why? Don't we have other things to
> think and worry about?
Has renaming Mumbai and Chennai "led us" anywhere?
Has it caused unnecessary worry and taken precious
resources away from us. I don't think so. If people take
pride in their native nomenclature and want to switch
names why waste time arguing for one historical context
that is no more valid than any other.
Raghu Seshadri
:
: Has renaming Mumbai and Chennai "led us" anywhere?
: Has it caused unnecessary worry and taken precious
: resources away from us. I don't think so.
You obviously don't think street signs, shop signs,
letterheads, millions of govt and business papers
etc cost any money, but the buyers and sellers of these
items don't agree with you.
: If people take
: pride in their native nomenclature and want to switch
: names why waste time arguing for one historical context
: that is no more valid than any other.
If these people really had any pride in their
cities, they wouldn't have converted them into
garbage dumps and openair toilets and sewage rivers
in the first place. I don't think pride enters
into it.
This is a cheap ploy by uneducated and illiterate
politicians to give the illusion that they are
achieving something, as they plainly are not capable
of any real achievements.
A stinky Madras or a filthy Bombay smells
'just as sweet' by any other name.
RS
:
:
Bholu
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
> You obviously don't think street signs, shop signs
>
> letterheads, millions of govt and business papers
> etc cost any money, but the buyers and sellers of these
> items don't agree with you.
Nonsense. All old stationary and signs can stay
they are. And no one will be confused by the
use of Bombay or Madras instead of Mumbai
or Chennai.
> If these people really had any pride in their
> cities, they wouldn't have converted them into
> garbage dumps and openair toilets and sewage rivers
> in the first place. I don't think pride enters
> into it.
Thank you for your most original and
informative comments. Poverty must be
tackled, garbage must be hauled, people
must be educated...whatever will you
come up with next.
> This is a cheap ploy by uneducated and illiterate
> politicians to give the illusion that they are
> achieving something, as they plainly are not capable
> of any real achievements.
Actually folks are a lot smarter than you
give them cretdit for. They will not vote for
politicians for merely changing names.
> A stinky Madras or a filthy Bombay smells
> 'just as sweet' by any other name.
Whatever.
Raghu Seshadri
: > You obviously don't think street signs, shop signs
: > letterheads, millions of govt and business papers
: > etc cost any money, but the buyers and sellers of these
: > items don't agree with you.
:
: Nonsense. All old stationary and signs can stay
: they are.
But they haven't. They have all been
changed wherever I went. The cost must have
been enormous.
: > If these people really had any pride in their
: > cities, they wouldn't have converted them into
: > garbage dumps and openair toilets and sewage rivers
: > in the first place. I don't think pride enters
: > into it.
:
: Thank you for your most original and
: informative comments. Poverty must be
: tackled, garbage must be hauled, people
: must be educated...whatever will you
: come up with next.
The point is, none of these vital things
have been done yet. Indeed no politician even
talks about doing them. These are the things
that would induce pride in one's city; and
as no one cares to do them, pride is non-existent.
: > This is a cheap ploy by uneducated and illiterate
: > politicians to give the illusion that they are
: > achieving something, as they plainly are not capable
: > of any real achievements.
:
: Actually folks are a lot smarter than you
: give them cretdit for. They will not vote for
: politicians for merely changing names.
You obviously are not familiar with
the citizens of Madras. Garbage mountains
increase steadily in height over there;
whole neighborhoods have turned into toilets ..
yet the politicians get reelected by huge
majorities. And all that these politicos have
done so far is force businesses to spend
money on Tamil signs, Tamil this, Tamil that.
And now the incompetents of Bengal are copying
their Tamil brothers.
RS
Bholu
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
> And now the incompetents of Bengal are copying
> their Tamil brothers.
I guess I should have made it clear that it is
immaterial to me whether cities are renamed.
Just that there is no need to get too exercised
in case they are. It is not that bad a thing to rename
them to their native nomenclature. However if
we do make a big fuss, it becomes more of a
headache than it needs to be. Tamilian, Bengali,
Bhiya or Saka, we love to argue (now don't give
me an argument about that).
As to the numerous deficiencies in India - you bet
they take priority.
Dakshin Gandikota
likely
because they both are megalomaniacal cultures (a.k.a. supremacy).
They just expect others to clean their crap! Fat luck commies and
DMK-droids!
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
> You obviously are not familiar with
> the citizens of Madras. Garbage mountains
> increase steadily in height over there;
> whole neighborhoods have turned into toilets ..
> yet the politicians get reelected by huge
> majorities. And all that these politicos have
> done so far is force businesses to spend
> money on Tamil signs, Tamil this, Tamil that.
>
> And now the incompetents of Bengal are copying
> their Tamil brothers.
>
> RS
Kulbir Singh
: Bholu (bh...@hotmail.com) wrote:
:
: : > You obviously don't think street signs, shop signs
: : > letterheads, millions of govt and business papers
: : > etc cost any money, but the buyers and sellers of these
: : > items don't agree with you.
: :
: : Nonsense. All old stationary and signs can stay
: : they are.
: But they haven't. They have all been
: changed wherever I went. The cost must have
: been enormous.
Raghu, a few weeks ago, on SCPb, you proposed that India
should threaten Lahore an important city of nuclear-power
Pakistan. The cost of that adventure is certainly
much more. Why do you favour one kind of non-productive
expenditure and oppose the other kind?
regards,
Kulbir Singh
: RS
Tulsidas19
her indifference?
Yes (2726 votes)
No. (229 votes)
Can't say. (50 votes)
source: Indian Express
http://www.expressindia.com/poll/daily/19990701.html
Tulsidas19
With Pak determined to escalate the war, pressure mounts to cross
the line of control and destroy enemy supply lines
R. Prasannan/Delhi and Drass with
V.K. Shashikumar/Batalik
http://www.the-week.com/99jul04/cover.htm
On the bank of the Pandarass rivulet, dust and smoke-covered men make tea,
grinning at passing convoys. More than 300 trucks lumber up, mostly in the
first gear, from 7,700 feet at Sonamarg, where troops are trained to fight
on mountains, to 11,600 feet at Zojila where Gen. Thimmayya winched tanks up
a pony track and shot the intruders of 1948. Driving into the meadows of
Drass, the drivers are still tense. Anything could suddenly cross the
roadÑlazily-walking sheep, wiry ponies or fire-jetting Bofors shells.
more at the above site.
Tulsidas19
Computers: Two Indians are giving computers away
By Jayant Mammen Mathew/New York
http://www.the-week.com/99jul04/life2.htm
Less than a year ago, a low-end personal computer was selling at $1,500.
Today, some companies have slashed prices to the limit, zero. But there is a
catch: they are not actually selling computers for free. Gobi Inc., an
upstart founded by Ganesh Ramakrishnan, Sudhir Shrotri and Jeremy Schneider,
former colleagues at the hedge fund D.E.Shaw, gives away computers for
$25.99 a month with free Internet access and e-mail service.
At the end of three years, subscribers can enrol for a new PC or keep the
old one. Gobi encourages them to donate their PCs to charities.
The Gobi PC, a no-frills white box, is an Intel Celeron 300 mega-hertz
processor with Windows 98. An Internet access otherwise costs between $18
and $20 a month.
The business model is similar to deals offered by cellular-phone companies,
in which handsets are given away in exchange for a service agreement. "I
give the analogy of a pizza," says 26-year old Gobi CEO, Ramakrishnan. "You
don't worry about the kind of cheese, crust or sauce when you order a pizza.
You just want the pizza."
Subscribers who sign up agree to pay a monthly fee, for three years. It
means they would be paying $1,000, inclusive of installation and shipping.
If they break the contract in the first year, they can pay $699 and keep the
computer.
Gobi's move follows a similar scheme by Free-PC, which offers consumers free
PCs in exchange for having banner size advertisements appear constantly on
the screen. Free-PC's business model is to subsidise computers in return for
revenues generated from advertising on the site. Subscribers are also
required to go online for at least 10 hours a month and sign a contract
agreeing to have advertising flashed on their computer for three years.
Free-PC is expected to ship 10,000 computers to consumers this spring.
Companies like Gobi and Free-PC are expecting to cash in on volumes as the
prices for PCs drop at an alarming rate. "A computer is a wasteful
investment after a couple of years," says Ramakrishnan, who was educated in
India before coming to the United States to study Anthropology at Harvard in
1991. "Once the model is obsolete there is no residual value."
The application process is simple: consumers are asked to fill a
questionnaire providing information such as age, income and interests. "We
check the credit history and make sure they stay with us for three years,"
says Ramakrishnan.
For Free-PC, the selection of prospective subscribers is based on how
attractive they are to an advertiser, as the company is advertiser
supported. Subscribers will have no control over the content they receive,
as advertising will be targeted at specific demographic segments. At the end
of three years, subscribers can enrol in a new scheme to get a new PC or
keep the old one. "We encourage our subscribers to donate their PCs to
charities across the globe," says Ramakrishnan.
The trend for cheaper PCs has also caught up with Intel, the world's largest
chip maker. It is developing the 'PC on a chip', a sub-$500 PC that is
expected to be out in the market by the end of the year. Mickroworkz, a low
cost PC maker, has introduced Webzter Jr. that sells at $299 (a 14-inch
monitor is $99 extra). But the Webzter is not as powerful as a Gobi PC or
Free-PC and is primarily a web browsing tool.
Ramakrishnan is unfazed by the competition and is now gearing up to respond
to more than 200 orders the company has received every day in the last two
months. "We have 30 employees and we are in the process of building a
brand," he says. "Gobi will be the touch-point of technology."
Jim Sterne, an Internet strategy consultant in California, feels the
strategy is going to work short term. He is concerned about customer
expectations. "These companies are not going to be prepared for technical
support the customers ask for," he says. "Most of the users will need
hand-holding."
Ramakrishnan is aware of the challenges that Gobi will face once they start
shipping PCs. His priority is to build a brand, Gobi PC. Gobi, which is
backed by angel investors from all over the world, is noncommittal about
taking the public at the moment. "Maybe at some point of time," says its
president Sudhir Shrotri, 28, who studied in IIT-Kanpur. "We are not chasing
the Internet bubble with a dot com company. We want to build a sound
business."
And they mean business.
S. Sundar Kumar Iyer
> Hindustan for west asia. In Turkish and arabic TV, India is invariably
> referrred to Hindustan
India is called India in Tamil and Malayalam, probably more frequently
than Bharatam, both in formal written and spoken form. Simple example
is AIADMK which is a Tamil acronym and "I" stands for India.
DPurohit
S. Sundar Kumar Iyer <ssk...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:377C1C...@ibm.net...
M. Ranjit Mathews
> And, I bet 'all' is called 'all' in Tamil and malayalam too. <G>
"aal" in Tamil and "oal" in Malayalam:-)
> > India is called India in Tamil and Malayalam, probably more frequently
> > than Bharatam, both in formal written and spoken form. Simple example
> > is AIADMK which is a Tamil acronym and "I" stands for India.
In Malayalam it can be called either Bharatam (literary) or India
(colloquial). In Tamil, it's India.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> In Malayalam it can be called either Bharatam (literary) or India
> (colloquial). In Tamil, it's India.
In some literary works and even films Bharatam is used in Tamil
Tulsidas19
By Monu Nalapat
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jul/02monu.htm
That Western journalists act as committed Stalinist "realists" whenever they
feel the question of continued Western dominance is involved became clear
from the reporting on Kosovo. No serious discussion took place on the ethics
of invading a sovereign country. Few bothered to point out that the ethnic
cleansing of that Yugoslav province (now a NATO protectorate) took place
after the air assault by 19 countries against a puny Serbia. Thanks to such
reporting, the Western powers are going to encounter a Vietnam in Europe as
both the Serbs and the KLA round on the occupiers in the coming months. Only
after the body bags begin to return will Western journalists rediscover
their commitment to get the facts - rather than government propaganda - out.
Almost all the Western journalists based in Delhi are welcome guests to the
residence of the Pakistani diplomats based in Delhi. Indeed, the bureau
chiefs of both CNN and the BBC make it a point of going over for a generous
lunch or dinner at the Pakistan high commissioner's residence on Tilak Marg
before filing an "objective" report on the situation between their favoured
country and India. Small wonder that while the Islamabad wings of both
organisations give the Pakistan version of the conflict, so does the New
Delhi side. Gurmukh Singh Aulakh, for example, must be very pleased at the
"reporting" done by the CNN Delhi bureau on the Kargil crisis, as the basic
thrust is to morally and militarily equate India with Pakistan. The
correspondent, however, cannot be blamed, as he is presumably obeying
corporate orders to ensure a pro-Pakistan tilt.
Thus far -- and it is patriotism to point this out, not to ignore it -- the
war has gone Pakistan's way. India is taking far higher casualties than the
drug-crazed savages who form the elite Special Section of the Pakistan army,
the section that the current army chief, Parvez Musharaff, comes from. It
was not by accident that the drug lobby that rules Pakistan got its puppet
Nawaz Sharief to appoint a commando as the new army chief. That lobby was
desperate to make the Kashmir valley a second base area for growing drugs,
just as Taliban-controlled Afghanistan has become.
While the Taliban sit on a cache of US $ 20 billion of heroin (street value
in New York), there is pressure on Pakistan to "clean up" its operations in
that tortured land, where the proud Pashtuns have become slaves of the
Lahore mafia. Thus the drug lobby's search for an "autonomous" Kashmir to
which they can move part of their expanding operations. Thus the Pakistan
army's push for a fresh territorial settlement in Kashmir. By watching the
needs of the drug lobby, it is easy to decipher what the Pakistan
establishment will do next. Unfortunately, the Indian side relies more on
the cocktail set of Lahore and Islamabad, thus failing to pick up
information in time.
The Government of India has substantial information on the drugs lobby in
Pakistan. Just as it has begun doing with cases of Pakistani atrocities, the
MEA and the PIB need to release such data so that even the correspondents
who are the recipients of Pakistan hospitality will flinch before once again
certifying that country as a democracy. First India and then the world needs
to be made aware that the 'Kashmir' conflict is in essence an attempt by the
drugs lobby to carve up a second state controlled by it, Taliban Afghanistan
being the first. Of course, in both cases, the actual directions would come
from the headquarters of the Asian drugs mafia -- Lahore, just as it does to
countless agents based in India and other countries.
Much, much more needs to be done against the drugs lobby, which is the
strongest pro-Pakistan force in the subcontinent. A first step would be the
release of documents that establish the linkage between the Pakistan army
and the drugs trade. Hopefully the Vajpayee government will not spare the
drugs lobby the way it has thus far protected Gopi Arora. Thanks to the lack
of action against the former chief aide to Rajiv Gandhi, the real truth
about Bofors may never be known. Until Arora is prosecuted, the final
picture will not evolve. However, the man has several friends in the media,
in politics and in the bureaucracy, and these are working overtime to save
him.
Indeed, Gopi Arora is not the only official who needs a probe. The truth is
that the Indian defence forces have been starved of essential supplies since
1985, although during the Rajiv Gandhi years this was partly obscured thanks
to huge (and lucrative) defence purchases. The Bofors guns -- the subject of
several inspired favourable reports in the Indian media in recent weeks --
have yet to silence the Pakistan commandos in Kargil. Had the Rajiv Gandhi
government spent the same funds on missiles by now the intruders would have
crossed not back into Pakistan but into the gates of Hell.
Since 1985 the strategic programmes of India have been scuttled by both the
PMO as well as the ministries of defence and finance. The three have worked
in tandem to ensure that the missile programme got underfunded, while
essential purchases get deferred. In Kargil, the lack of direction finding
and night vision equipment -- apart from modern guns and missiles -- is
costing the army precious lives. The files will show that a handful of
officers systematically blocked defence replenishment.
Apart from Gopi Arora, these officers (who need to be investigated) should
include a former finance secretary, a former principal secretary to the
prime minister and a former defence secretary. The files will show the
attitude of these officers to crucial defence requirements, and how the army
and the air force are fighting with one hand tied behind their backs thanks
to the systematic neglect of defence requirements by a clique of officers.
If the Vajpayee government does not order such an enquiry, it will indicate
that it itself is under the influence of the pro-Pakistan lobby that has
consciously and repeatedly starved the Indian armed forces of essential
requisites since 1985.
A genuine nationalist government will ensure that those who damaged India's
defence capabilities will pay a heavy price for them, rather than escape.
Are you listening, Mr Advani?
In particular, attention needs to be focussed on the fate of the army's
repeated cries for better rifles as well as snowmobiles, direction finding
equipment and night vision goggles. Who were the bureaucrats who blocked
such essential purchases, and were they doing so to ensure the success of
the Pakistan army's Kargil adventure? George Fernandes needs to abandon his
love affair with former defence secretary Ajit Kumar and get the facts out
before his political career gets ruined.
What has happened to Fernandes is tragic. A brave figure, a brilliant mind,
an individual with concern and love for his motherland. And yet, certain
officials made him a pawn in their game, diverting him to the Bhagwat chase
when he should have been concentrating on getting his troops the tools they
needed to do their job. In true Yes Minister style, the defence minister had
gone there five times in a year. During none of these visits was he told of
the Pakistan army's open preparations for a forcible entry into the Indian
side of the LoC. He was not told about the helipads and the new roads that
were coming up on the Pakistan side. Had he known, George would have acted.
However, he was clearly the last to know, with the result that his political
career is as damaged as is the credibility of his ministry. If he takes
steps to acknowledge past errors and fix the blame, Fernandes can yet redeem
his record. Will he?
By meeting the foreign minister of the drugs cartel, Sartaj Aziz, Atal
Bihari Vajpayee compounded the error he made in assuming that those who rule
Pakistan are civilised human beings rather than savages. Thanks to the weak
message that his actions have sent out, the prime minister of India has been
responsible for encouraging Pakistan to believe it can get away with murder.
Instead, Vajpayee needs to give the Pakistanis 48 hours to withdraw fully
from the Indian side of the LoC, followed by an all-out assault along the
India-Pakistan border. This time the war must not stop until the Pakistan
army is disarmed and the responsibility of the security of Pakistan's
borders is given to the Indian army.
There should be no more Tashkents, Simlas or Lahores. In Pakistan, those
forces who seek to escape the oppression of the Lahore mafia should be given
moral and material support, then finally Pakistan should be a confederation
of states where the Sindhis, Seraikis, Shias, Pashtuns and Baluchis will be
given self-government, while Mohajirs and minorities will be fairly treated.
It is because Pakistan has been assured by friends of the Pakistan army such
as the Steven Cohens and Robin Raphels of the United States, the Robin Cooks
of the UK, and numerous agents of the drugs cartel in India that India will
not take resolute action that Lahore has been emboldened to attack India so
openly. By keeping the war localised to the 140-kilometre incurrsied of the
Pakistan armed forces, all that is being done is to slow the process of
expulsion, and raise the cost to India at minimum cost to Pakistan.
Naturally Bill Clinton -- who armed the drugs mafia in Pakistan to the
eyeteeth thanks to the Brown amendment -- is happy at this wishy-washy
strategy, just as Tony Blair -- whose Labour party has got huge funds from
Pakistan-based groups in the UK -- is. What needs to be done is to give
Pakistan 48 hours to clear out, followed by all-out war that should end only
after the hapless people of Pakistan are freed from the control of the drugs
mafia.
In case the pro-Pakistan elements in China try to intervene, immediate
action needs to be taken on the Taiwan and Tibet fronts. Hopefully, saner
elements in China will realise that it is far, far better for Beijing to
generate an India-Russia-China alliance than to go on supporting a fanatic
state controlled by a savage mafia. If China is keen on a future alliance
with India, this can only come about if it stops the policy of helping
Pakistan against India. There are several top individuals in Beijing unhappy
with the Gorbachev-Kozyrev propensities of certain Chinese leaders, and they
should see to it that the Pakistan tilt stops so that the 1950s dream of an
alliance of the three major powers of Asia gets resurrected.
Atal Bihari Vajpayee has for too long followed the "Nehru" model. In the
1970s he tried to copy Congress populism, backing all the foolish economic
schemes of Indira Gandhi. That did not help his party. Now he is trying to
act like Jawaharlal Nehru in 1948 and Indira Gandhi in 1972. Just as George
Fernandes was near-mortally wounded by his love for Ajit Kumar, so will
Vajpayee be politically if he keeps up this Nehru fixation. Instead, he
needs to show that he is as courageous as the nation and the valiant troops
he commands, and implement a strategy that can take care of the Pakistan
menace for all time. It is time to at least initiate action on both sides of
the LoC, even if not yet all across the India-Pakistan border.
Pakistan must not be allowed to escape for much longer, just because it has
a set of friends in Blair-Clinton and the drugs lobby in the PLA. India has
a Monroe Doctrine. South Asia is our turf, and we will solve problems our
own way, without interference.
Raghu Seshadri
: Raghu, a few weeks ago, on SCPb, you proposed that India
: Pakistan. The cost of that adventure is certainly
: much more. Why do you favour one kind of non-productive
: expenditure and oppose the other kind?
Evidently I don't think threatening Lahore
would be unproductive, that is why.
RS
Kulbir Singh
Could you please explain why you think it will be productive?
regards,
Kulbir Singh
: RS
Raghu Seshadri
: : : Raghu, a few weeks ago, on SCPb, you proposed that India
: : : should threaten Lahore an important city of nuclear-power
: : : Pakistan. The cost of that adventure is certainly
: : : much more. Why do you favour one kind of non-productive
: : : expenditure and oppose the other kind?
:
: : Evidently I don't think threatening Lahore
: : would be unproductive, that is why.
:
: Could you please explain why you think it will be productive?
Just a guess.
RS
Tulsidas19
BY ARUN SHOURIE
http://www.indiaconnect.com/ashourie/as210699.htm
"India has massacred 60,000 Kashmiris, but the people of Kashmir will never
rest till they have won freedom;" "India has deployed 700,000 soldiers in
the Valley, and yet the Kashmiri mujahidin are inflicting heavy losses on
them every day;" "How laughable it is that India has packed the Kargil
sector with 40,000 troops, and just a handful of mujahidin are able to
inflict humiliation upon humiliation on them;" Indian infrastructure has
collapsed to such an extent that even those Indian casualties which were
"lucky enough to be evacuated by air, had to wait for three days for a bed
in Srinagar hospitals" -- such "facts" are repeated ad nauseum in Pakistani
papers. Sixty thousand Kashmiris killed by India? Seven hundred thousand
troops in Kashmir? Forty thousand troops in Kargil? Soldiers waiting for
three days to get a hospital bed?
We tend to dismiss such assertions as the usual lies -- friends who run one
of our most conscientious news services about happenings in our
neighbourhood, Public Opinion Trends, are so inured to these concoctions
that they excise them from their reports! In fact, the concoctions deserve
attention.
For one thing they are part of a world-view, they are part of an Ideology.
Everything Pakistan does about Kashmir -- stoking terrorism, sending army
regulars, spreading fabrications at every international gathering -- it
pictures to itself as jihad, as a religious undertaking, indeed as an
Allah-ordained duty. Concocting lies then becomes a device for discharging
that duty. "War is stratagem," the Prophet has said, "War is deceit."
Sahih Muslim, Volume III, pp. 945, 990-91; Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume IV, pp.
166-67; Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume II, p. 728.] Thus one may lie, one may kill
the enemy while he is asleep, one may kill him by tricking him. [For
instance, Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume IV, pp. 164-65, 167-68.] That is one
problem: for the man or force weaned on jihad, the concoctions are an
intrinsic part of the struggle he is waging, for him the fact that the war
he is waging is Allah-ordained is a complete justification for cruelty, for
lies and the rest; on our side, we don't just shut our eyes to the
concoctions that result from it, we shut our eyes even more tightly to the
Ideology of which they are but the result.
There is an immediate, practical result also. These sorts of "facts" and
assertions are repeated so often that by now they have sunk into the
subconscious of the average Pakistani. He actually believes that India has
massacred sixty thousand Kashmiris, he actually believes that Kashmir is
aflame, that Kashmiris are dying to merge into Pakistan, that it is just a
matter of months and they will be able to do so. From this it is but a step
to conclude that all that is necessary is to give one more push, to launch
one more offensive, and the Kashmiris will rise, the place will go up in
flames, India will be broken, the job will be done.
The believer, having internalised the concoction, just can't see why the
world doesn't believe what he is putting out. As we have seen, Pakistani
papers had themselves been reporting -- with evident self-congratulation --
that soldiers of the Pakistan Army have wrested posts from the Indian Army,
that they have occupied a village in.... As international opinion turned
against Pakistan for that very reason, suddenly, as if a switch had been
turned, references to the Pakistan Army ceased, and the victories were
ascribed to the valiant mujahidin. Within days, references to these mythical
mujahidin too were replaced -- now it was the "Kashmiri freedom fighters"
who were inflicting the "humiliating defeats" on the Indian Army. One
feature of course is that these switches come naturally -- as the war is a
jihad in the cause of Allah, whichever thesis will serve The Great Cause is
the one which must be pushed. The other is that the believer is just not
able to see why the world does not swallow his fabrication.
As everything is a matter of belief in Allah, to question the "fact" which
has been put out, to doubt a scenario -- the sheikhchili's scenario in which
one favourable twist leads to another devastating turn -- becomes blasphemy,
it becomes proof that one lacks faith, it is betrayal. Thus, not to believe
that Indians have massacred sixty thousand Kashmiris, to doubt that Kashmir
is on the brink of breaking away from India, not to believe that Kashmiris
are pining to join Pakistan is to be unpatriotic, it is to lack faith in the
fundamental notion that, as they all believe in Islam, all Muslims
constitute one, seamless ummah. As a consequence, while not even the allies
and props of Pakistan are buying its assertions today, self-delusion remains
a duty!
The insurgency which Pakistan had orchestrated in Kashmir is dead: to cite a
single index, while the number of tourists in the Valley had fallen to just
600 in 1996, this year they are running close to two and a half lakhs.
Recruitment of locals has evaporated. But in the Pakistani press the
insurgency is at the point of overturning the Indian State! A fundamental
change has taken place in the area, writes a commentator in The News of 3
June. "....Freedom fighters in Kashmir have attained self-sufficiency in
weapons and have developed indigenous techniques of fighting which have
become a way of life for them," he writes. "They fight under the cover of
darkness, under the protection of mountains and in their own area which they
know very well. They move in the area like wild goats and can reach anywhere
without any difficulty. They return to their homes and hearths in the
morning after accomplishing their task and join their family on the jobs
which are needed to be done to earn livelihood." "Two weeks of fighting in
the Kargil sector have established the following facts," the analyst
continues. "That the indigenous insurrection movement in Kashmir is so
strong and so well-armed that India can no longer hold it in check. It is
also no longer possible for India to cross the international boundary and so
the fighting will remain confined to Kashmir where India has always been the
loser...."
"On the diplomatic front the Indians are playing on the back-foot," writes
an analyst in The News of 4 June. "....The Kargil operation [of India],
aimed at killing the Kashmir issue, will have helped to chisel away at the
paralysed and hardened Kashmir position of the international players [an
acknowledgment there!]. And the Kashmiris living under Indian control know
that. Much like the Intifada which proved to be a potent stimulus for the
Palestinians under Israeli occupation, India's Kargil fiasco will renew the
Kashmiri resolve to fight on. Psychologically the fact that a mere 400-600
mujahidin have bogged down the world's third largest army for a few months,
irrespective of the final outcome [another acknowledgment there!], will be a
major morale booster for the Kashmiris of Kashmir." The diplomatic isolation
of Pakistan is for all to see, but the analyst remarks, "Nawaz Sharief
meanwhile, ably supported on foreign policy issues by his Information
Minister and Foreign Office, has pursued a near-faultless India policy. He
has mixed peace offers with commitment to his country's defence and
projected nuclear strength with gentleness. He is indeed South Asia's strong
man of peace...." Remember, The News is the paper which was till recently
the special target of the attentions of Nawaz Sharief and his Information
Minister!
Belief makes one not just blind, it makes one reckless. The Taliban in the
madrasas are of course fed Quranic stories of the "wars" of Badr etc.. But
they are not the only ones. The regular soldier and officer of the Pakistani
Army has them drilled into him just as deep. And the lesson from these
stories which is stuffed into him is not some particular stratagem to be
followed in a siege or an assault, say; the lesson he internalises is that
Allah shall always come to the aid of believers, that the side of Allah
shall prevail. So all one has to do is leap.
One of the things that strikes one in reading books from Pakistan, the
analyses in their newspapers, judgments of their courts is the singular
absence of subtlety, of shades. The analyses are gross: the categories are
basic, the conclusions predictable. This is not the result merely of mental
habits or capacities. Ideology makes grossness inevitable. Everything is
either black or white, everyone is either a co-religionist or one who will
some day deceive one, every engagement is going to turn out one way --
capitalism is certain to collapse, it is on the verge of collapsing, Allah
is bound to come to the assistance of believers, His cause is bound to
prevail....
There is another consequence -- Pakistani newspapers are replete with
instances of it. The belief having been drilled into him that he is doing
Allah's Will -- or, as in Marxism-Leninism, of History -- the believer just
cannot believe that the fault may lie with him. As the war he is waging has
been ordained by Allah, the one who is opposing him must, by definition, be
doing so for some perverse reason, for some ulterior purpose. Pakistanis
have been genuinely surprised at Washington's statements disapproving their
crossing the Line of Control. They just cannot see that Pakistan might be in
the wrong. Their analysts hint that the USA is tilting towards India because
it is drooling at the prospect of India's large market! Commenting on a
statement of the American Secretary of State, The Nation of June 6 remarks
ruefully, "India being the bigger market for trade does not mean that the
world should give up its moral values on political issues"! By the 8th, the
paper is hinting at some even deeper mystery! Repeating the new fabrications
on the Line of Control, the paper remarks in an editorial, "If despite
India's strange illogicality, the US State Department chooses to buy the
Indian accusations and discounts the Pakistani version of the incident,
there has to be more to it than a fair assessment of the situation"!
The Indians cannot be fighting Pakistani troops because they have occupied
Indian territory. They are doing so for some other, unworthy, deplorable
reasons. Vajpayee is facing an election, and launching a war against
Pakistan has been his party's traditional way of gathering votes! "The BJP
government has collapsed despite its 'popular' nuclear policy," observes
Najam Sethi's The Friday Times of 4-10 June in its editorial, "but it still
clings to the old political tricks to garner votes. It is also hostage to an
aggressive policy in Kashmir. If it lets up, the Congress will pillory it by
adopting a more hawkish stance. India's politicians have therefore hog-tied
themselves by their devotion to this vote-getting gimmick...." "They [the
Indian politicians] have made de-escalation more difficult all round," it
continues -- Pakistani troops cross the Line of Control, our forces, by
fighting back, make de-escalation difficult! "The Congress government
committed the 'popular' folly of sending troops to Siachin. But no later
government has dared to withdraw troops from it...." So long as Pakistani
troops were occupying Siachin it was far-sightedness, it became folly when
Indians occupied it! And daring would consist in vacating Siachin for the
Pakistani Army, not in holding it!
In this analysis the BJP government is strong enough to push its "old tricks
to garner votes". In other analyses, the reason is the opposite! Writing in
The Nation of 28 May, an analyst tells his readers that an Interim, weak
government is in office in Delhi, and that "hawks in the Indian military
establishment are ruling the roost," and that this is what accounts for the
scale of the response, the air-strikes and the rest!
But such objective factors -- "old political tricks to garner votes" and the
like -- are never enough for a believer. He must detect something deep, some
fundamental perversity in the one who is being so obdurate as not to fall at
the believer's feet. Predictably, therefore, that staple of Pakistani papers
has returned: "Hindu cunning"! And this time, just as predictably, Mr. Atal
Behari Vajpayee is the epitome of it. "Mr. Vajpayee has proved more
two-faced than his predecessor," notes The Friday Times. "Vajpayee -- the
man who showed statesmanship by describing his visit to Minar Pakistan as
'the defining moment in history' -- has only appeared at the bar of history
as a clumsy pygmy," The News of 30 May tells its readers. "A short-sighted
and pathetically parochial politician whose instincts for political survival
are both reactionary and jingoistic. His passion for the cheap thrill
coupled with the BJP's desire to regain a foothold in contemporary Indian
politics have resulted in airstrikes on Kashmiri freedom fighters...."
It isn't just information from which Ideology insulates one. Ideology
insulates one from experience just as much. When the believer succeeds, he
is confirmed in the belief that the Ideology has driven into him -- that
Allah is with him. But the Ideology has also driven another notion into
him -- a notion that protects the Ideology from an adverse outcome, but by
the same token disables the believer from learning. When they are defeated,
the faithful have been taught to conclude, Allah is just testing their
faith: Allah has put defeat in their path, they have been taught, to
ascertain whether at such a time they lose faith in Allah's promise. Do they
abandon their faith in Allah?, Allah wants to see. Do they blame Him rather
than themselves?, Allah wants to make sure.
This Ideology-induced deafness is compounded in the case of Pakistan by the
essentially authoritarian nature of both -- its society as well as polity.
In free, democratic societies there is incessant self-examination. In
authoritarian societies pasting blame on The Other becomes nature. The
defeat in Vietnam caused an enormous amount of introspection in America: it
led, among other things, to new strategic thinking, to new technologies. The
rout in Bangladesh caused none in Pakistan. We see the same sequence today.
Indian forces are rolling back the Pakistanis in Kargil. Internationally
Pakistan stands isolated as never before. But Pakistani press is singing
hosannas: the success of the mujahidin in holding the Indian Army at bay has
inspired the freedom fighters of Kashmir, they sing to themselves, the
uprising against India will now reach new heights; the Kashmir issue has
been "irretrievably internationalised," they exult; the world now realizes
that Kashmir can be the nuclear flash-point, they declare to their own
satisfaction.
These features hold for Pakistanis in general, immersed as they are in,
committed as they are to an Ideology, Islam. Each of them is compounded
ten-fold in the case of the officer and soldier of the Pakistan Army.
Stephen Cohen has noted how the "Sandhurst" and "American" generations of
their officers have passed, how the officer-class consists increasingly of
persons from the lower middle class and peasant stock. In the country at
large these classes are among the ones which have been swept up most by
Islamic rhetoric: and, what with the continuing collapse of educational
institutions, at an accelerating pace. The success which the Army has
achieved through the Taliban in Afghanistan also buttresses the notion that
"the time of Islam has returned".
There are other factors too. The more intense Islamic rhetoric has become,
the more cut-off from outside influences and opinions Pakistan has become,
the Army even more so than other sections: almost the only thing which has
kept an aperture open to the rest of the world is Pakistan's technological
backwardness -- because of this backwardness, it has had to continue relying
on other countries for technical upgradation, and hence some contrary ideas
must still be sneaking in. But it is a tiny aperture: the countries from
whom it secures the weapons are also ones whose life and ways its Ideology
teaches it to hate and reject.
Not only is the Army, like other sections of Pakistani society, insulated
from the world, it is insulated from those other sections within Pakistan
too. The Army is overwhelmingly Punjabi. Within that one province, its
recruits are overwhelmingly from a small clutch of five or six districts.
Furthermore, that the Army has such an over-weaning, predominant status in
Pakistani society and governance impels a certain deafness: few dare
question what it says and does, all the greater reason for the Army to
conclude that what it is thinking is valid. And there is another twist. The
Pakistani Army has great power, overwhelming power vis a vis other sections
of society, but not esteem. That went -- first with the way it lost Pakistan
in 1971, and then with the mess that the Army made of the country during the
years it had absolute sway, the Zia years. Since then, while the success in
Afghanistan has restored its esteem somewhat, this is counter-balanced with
the reputation for corruption, the reputation for being involved in the
drug-trade etc. which have got stuck to it.
To the faith of the believer, therefore, has been added a compulsion -- to
prove itself again.
Each of these factors applies to organizations like the ISI twenty-fold. And
to the terrorist organizations the ISI etc. have spawned -- a hundred-fold.
In a word, Kargil is but the latest of what Pakistan will continue to
inflict on us. Defeating each such venture with demonstrative harshness is
as much a part of the peace-process as pursuing every opening like Lahore.
$$$$
Mr. Arun Shourie, a Rajya Sabha member and among India's best known
commentators on current and political affairs. His writings are backed by
rigorous analysis and meticulous research. He has been an economist with the
World Bank, a consultant in the planning commision and the editor of Indian
Express. Among the many honours and awards, he has received the Magsaysay
Award, the International Editor of the Year, the Dadabhai Naoroji and the
Astor Award.
Tulsidas19
To Empty Ghats
The UPCC is red-faced after Sonia draws a blank in Varanasi
http://www.outlookindia.com/issue3/fraffairsrl11.htm
Sonia at Varanasi: a damp squib
If it was intended as the grand launching pad for the Congress pre-poll
campaign that Sonia Gandhi was to steamroll, Varanasi turned out to be the
wrong choice. Her rally here was to be the crucial litmus test to measure
the Congress president's charisma to put the party back on track. Instead
the response left party leaders confused and political observers guessing.
Though 20,000-odd people did eventually turn up to hear the 'Desh ki neta
'-as Congress leaders repeatedly emphasised-15 minutes before Sonia's
arrival it was only a pathetic 5,000-odd that had been mustered for what was
hoped to be an 'impressive' rally. Compared to her first rally as party
chief in Lucknow in February where the Begum Hazrat Mahal Park swarmed with
not less than a lakh people, Sonia's Varanasi outing came as something of a
personal shock as well. Local Congress groupism and over-confidence were
touted as the reasons for the poor showing. And the aicc itself decided to
probe the Varanasi letdown.
rest at the above site.
S. Sundar Kumar Iyer
>
> And, I bet 'all' is called 'all' in Tamil and malayalam too. <G>
>
Probably the English educated will be more comfortable with that :-)
The humour apart, if you are interested in knowing what the first "A" in
AIADMK stands for, it is "anaiththu" which means "all" or the "whole of"
.
> S. Sundar Kumar Iyer <ssk...@ibm.net> wrote in message
> >
DPurohit
Kajhagam.
S. Sundar Kumar Iyer <ssk...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:3780C4...@ibm.net...
Kulbir Singh
Raghu Seshadri (sesh...@cse.ucsc.edu) wrote:
: Just a guess.
I think it is high time the governance of 1.1 billion
people of the region is based on some sound resource
management principles than on senseless guesses.
There is no reason why people should remain satisfied with
sub-saharan human development indices any longer.
regards,
Kulbir Singh
: RS