My Royal Caste
Zen90
We still believe in the deference of castes and accept Nampoothiries as the
upper caste.
Many people cover up their ancestry. Most of the Ezhavas do not like to
tell others that their grand father or great grand father was a toddy
tapper. They are offended if someone call them Chovan (nothing wrong with
that word; it means servant/ fighter ).
Most of the Christians do not accept the fact that their ancestors were
converted from lower castes. My Orthodox Syrian Christian friend ( he
always tells me his family is very Orthodox) will show his displeasure, if
I tell him that his ancestors were "Oozhiyam Adimakal "and their famous
family name is a title given to his great grand father by the local Raja. (
Some labor slaves accepted titles instead of money).
Nairs do not like to hear that their grandmas or great grandmothers had
more than one husband at the same time, and they were sexually exploited by
appan Nampoothrees . Nairs (even Chakkala Nair and Vilakkithala Nair)like
to talk and hear about Veluthampy and Thacholi Othenan stories.
Thekkan Pulayan say that he is better than Pampu Pulayan.
Can we call it Social schizophrenia.
Sandeep
I agree all south Indian other than Brahmins should be proud of their
Dravid heritage instead of sucking to the Brahmin notions of supremacy.
South Indians forget that we are part of a great heritage and our
civilization spans over 5000 years (Greater than Aryan). All this nonsense
about caste and class is the result of living in vanity and not being proud
of who we really are. The difference of being from one caste or another
is at best minimal at worst hating your own kind. The truth of the matter
is that our kerala society is based materialestic gains and gaining status
anyway. So that includes putting others down. When we have this kind of
attitude how can we as a people progress. We won't. So instead of looking
at differences, we should see other eye to eye. We should see what is
common to our heritage and forget this thing called caste.
--
Sandeep K. Sukumaran
Zen90
The famous Nampoothiri family Poomulli Mana,is in Palghat Dist:
Osho Bhagwan
In <4tg0un$m...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>
sanj...@usa.pipeline.com(Zen90) writes:
>
>The famous Nampoothiri family Poomulli Mana,is in Palghat Dist:
where exactly in palakkad....??... I have never heard about them...
Osho Bhagwan
I am from palakkad, and it's good to know that not many namboothiri's
are there.
I think namboothiri's were driven away by the local raja's in
palakkad. So whoever boasts of namboothiri superiority please be aware
that it's not true everywhere.
In fact the lack of namboothiri's, is what made my paternal
ancestors to bring tamil brahmins(nicknamed patter's) to do pooja
in the our temples. If anyone knows about kalpathy, a small village in
palakkad,it was formed by those early tamilians who were brought to
palakkad by my paternal ancestors.
I think at the end whoever is powerful is the highest caste....
Like today the most politicians are the highest caste. Otherwise why
should guruvayoor temple honor karunakaran who is notorious for bashing
his car/escort car and even injuring people
on his way to lord krishna..
hehe...just telling some facts...
In <4te53u$6...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>
Mathews J. Thundyil
In article <4tjp8h$1n...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
Biju Jacob <XJF...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
>Sure makes all of us Malayalees look good, does it not?
Amen!
Napoleon-in-Rags
Biju Jacob
I just have one question for all you Royal Caste members. Have you
achieved anything worth talking about in YOUR lifetime on this planet?
Or do you have to go back centuries to find something to brag about?
Is it any wonder why India is in such a sad shape? Sometimes I am
convinced that we have the highest concentration of morons and assholes
of any nation. As if this is not bad enough, these nimrods have to puke
their pathetic, narrow-minded, ethno-centric views on the net for the
whole world to see.
What you morons don't realize is that by expressing your brain-dead views,
you are disproving your own theories of superiority.
Sure makes all of us Malayalees look good, does it not?
Biju
LIFE'S SHORT. PLAY HARD!
Paul@attmail.com Mathai Paul
Where did you get the idea that all Christians were converted from lower
castes, I have reason and proof to believe otherwise. I would like you to
do some more research and find out where the original Christian families
were converted by St.Thomas were.
Satish Nair
Sandeep (sp...@usa.pipeline.com) wrote:
: I agree all south Indian other than Brahmins should be proud of their
Dear Sandeep:
I beg to differ with you. Try reading Bhagwan Gidwanis book which
questions the Aryan invasion theory. Personally I think
Aryan-dravidian is a sublime twisting of the truth.
Regards
Satishaditya
Sandeep
On Jul 30, 1996 16:00:45 in article <Re: My Royal Caste>,
Tell me how specifically is it a twisting the truth. if haven't noticed
Dravidian languages and Aryan language have completely different roots.
This has been proven. Second the language that was used in the Indus
civilization from the evidence resembles Dravidian. There are still many
tribes in Baluchistan that speak in the Dravid tongue. Finally read Rig
Veda,the very first book of the Brahmin Religion and you will see. Look at
the way Indra and other devs fought wars.
Sandeep K. Sukumaran
Satish Nair
Mathews J. Thundyil (ma...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) wrote:
: In article wrote : <4tjp8h$1n...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
: Biju Jacob <XJF...@prodigy.com> wrote:
: >
: >Sure makes all of us Malayalees look good, does it not?
: Please take the discussions on CASTE as an HISTORICAL excercise. When
I initially posted, my sole objective was to get atleast toward a
partial truth. Recall that HUMANITY and HISTORY have had strange
relations, the powerful always toyed with the making of HISTORY.
History as we now know are memoirs of the powerful or atrocities
of the infulential. TRUTH might never be known.
My very bset wishes,
Satishaditya C. Nair
Sathyadev Ramachandran
In article <4tm27e$7...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>,
>Tell me how specifically is it a twisting the truth. if haven't noticed
>Dravidian languages and Aryan language have completely different roots.
>This has been proven. Second the language that was used in the Indus
>civilization from the evidence resembles Dravidian. There are still many
>tribes in Baluchistan that speak in the Dravid tongue. Finally read Rig
>Veda,the very first book of the Brahmin Religion and you will see. Look at
>the way Indra and other devs fought wars.
>
>Sandeep K. Sukumaran
As Rajeev pointed out most Indians are mongrels...not just from the
genetic point of view! The differences if any of what we have come to
know as Dravidian and Aryan is quite small. If the Aryan invasion theory
is correct, why did the Dravidians adopt an entire Aryan way of life ?
Note, the Dravidians with their adopted Aryan culture have flourished
and even contributed to it. Never in recent human history have the
conquered flourished so well as to match its conqueror... especially
when from two different races !
There was a more interesting study in the Scientific American a few
years ago , where they use some gene mapping techniques (?) to map
the links of all existing human races. I would be willing to trust
that more, than a statement based on language alone. Indians in general
resemble people from the mediterranean region . This applies to
both light and dark skinned Indians. There are still many tribes
scattered all over India, resembling at least in features the aborigines
in Australia. Probably these are the earliest settlers in India. And
this group has largely kept its identity and have not adopted
either the so called Dravidian or Aryan ways. There must be some
white caucasian descendents in the North from Greek invasions/contacts
and probably also along the west coast. There is very little evidence
that Aryans were white causcasians....and I guess this is where we
find all Mallus who take "pride" in their Namboodiri heritage want
links to, with Namboodiri's being considered to be 100% Aryan.
-Dev-
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
son: "what's physics pa ?" | DEV |
Dad: "It's about Symmetry principles, son." | (708)-840-3718 |
son: "Hmm....wonder what that means !" |_________________|
Bobby Nayar
Sathyadev Ramachandran wrote:
> There is very little evidence
> that Aryans were white causcasians....and I guess this is where we
> find all Mallus who take "pride" in their Namboodiri heritage want
> links to, with Namboodiri's being considered to be 100% Aryan.
>
> -Dev-
>
You know, the poti in the temple back home in Kayamkulam, sort of
resembled Dolph Lundgren (the dude from Rocky 4) !!
Nayar
Desiensus Mobilus
In article <4te53u$6...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com> sanj...@usa.pipeline.com(Zen90) writes:
>
>tapper. They are offended if someone call them Chovan (nothing wrong with
>that word; it means servant/ fighter ).
Good post. But I think that any group can consider a word offensive
if the connotation to that word is negative. chovan is a corruption of
chokavan/chekavan.
Eg: Thacholi Othenan Chekavar.
>
>more than one husband at the same time, and they were sexually exploited by
>appan Nampoothrees . Nairs (even Chakkala Nair and Vilakkithala Nair)like
It is Aphan, not appan.
>to talk and hear about Veluthampy and Thacholi Othenan stories.
Thacholi Othenan was an Ezhava fighter. So why would a nair
be proud of his caste because of him?
>Can we call it Social schizophrenia.
Refer to Vivekanda's comment on Kerala:-)
Zen90
Desiensus Mobilus is right aphan is the right word.
Thacholi Othenan was not a Thiyan, he was a Nair.
Krishnakumar B. Pillai
In article <4tm27e$7...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>,
Sandeep <sp...@usa.pipeline.com> wrote:
>On Jul 30, 1996 16:00:45 in article <Re: My Royal Caste>,
>
>
>Satish
>Tell me how specifically is it a twisting the truth. if haven't noticed
>Dravidian languages and Aryan language have completely different roots.
>This has been proven. Second the language that was used in the Indus
>civilization from the evidence resembles Dravidian. There are still many
>tribes in Baluchistan that speak in the Dravid tongue. Finally read Rig
>Veda,the very first book of the Brahmin Religion and you will see. Look at
>the way Indra and other devs fought wars.
>
>Sandeep K. Sukumaran
Mr. Sukumaran:
The language that was used in Mohen Jodaro and Harappa have not yet
been deciphered. The sanskrit used in the Rig Veda has more that a 125
retroflex phonetic words of dravidian origin. The avestan language of
1200 B.C. which is totally nonaryan (since the avesta is a book recording
the triumph of the Asura's against the Daevas, the mirror image of the Rig,
and mainly because the Nazis said so) is the closest existing language to
Sanskrit, maybe after Malayalam (which incidentally is classified as dravidian).
Avestan and Pehlavi are written in the arabic script today.
Take the first Canto of the Rig Veda and compare it with the Avesta:
Hothar, Yagna, Havis, Yajaman..these are some of the root words
common to both languages. Its a pity that people who read the Rig Veda
don't usually read other religious texts.
Researchers have, up until now classifed languages on the basis of
script. But script is a matter of convenience, and if you look back in
history, languages such as Turkish, Vietnamese, and all the European languages
German, English, Spanish,etc were arbitrariliy latinized for convenience.
About the Baluch tribe - They speak Brahui. This is a proto Dravidian
language. Brahui, Kartavelyan, Armenian, South indian languages, etc. are
proto Elamite (Remember Ahasuares in the Bible, the great Elamite king
whose domain extended all the way to india - notice the similarity of the
title which means king in Hebrew, with the word Asura, or Ahura in pehlavi).
The Armenians by the way were classified as Aryan by the Nazis, who
for some strange reason seem to be the official aryan labelling body in
history.
I find it sickening to read these postings where people try to
claim decendency from some "noble" race. To study races academically in an
objective way is one thing, but to try and prove that ones lineage can be
traced to a noble tribe, which was the prime motive of Max Muller's research,
and to draw pride from it is shallow, and proof in itself that ancestry has
nothing to do with nobility of the self.
Khorda Avesta
-------------
Drvasp Yasht
------------
dazdi-me vanguhi sevishte
drvaspe tat ayaptem
yat bavani aiwi-vanya
vispe daeva mazanya
yatha azem noit tarshto fra-nmane
thwaeshat paro daevaeibyo
fra ahmat paro vispe daeva
anuso tarshta nemante
tarshta temangho dvarante.
Translation:
------------
'Grant me this boon, O good, most beneficent Drvaspa! that I may overcome all
the Daevas of Mazana; that I may never fear and bow through terror before the
Daevas, but that all the Daevas may fear and bow in spite of themselves before
me, that they may fear and flee down to darkness.'
--
Krish Pillai
SMU, SEAS.
Dallas, Tx 75275
---------------------------------------------
Krishnakumar B. Pillai
In article <320002...@nortel.ca>, Bobby Nayar <na...@nortel.ca> wrote:
>
>You know, the poti in the temple back home in Kayamkulam, sort of
>resembled Dolph Lundgren (the dude from Rocky 4) !!
>
> Nayar
Yeah, right! And EMS Nambuthiripad looks like Clint Eastwood!
Benny Varkey
I agree with many of your views but not this one and your objection to
Malayalam being classified as a dravidian language. First languages are classified
(now and surely in the near past, and most probably in the early past ) by their
basic word set and grammatic structure. True that malayalam has absorbed
80% of Sanskrit vacabulary, however its basic word set and grammatic structure largely
remains Tamulic ( Dravidian ), hence it is classified as a Dravidian. Oriya is
classified as the language closest to Sanskrit. Interestingly Oriya has some Tamil
words too, look at Patnaik ( Pata Nayakan ) and may be more.
Latest research into language history has classified, Dravidian Afro-Asiatic, (Arabic,
Hebrew etc. ) and European ( refered as IndoEuropean Languare group )languges (except Basque
which has similarity to Na Dene a group of native North American languages ) into one super
group called Caucasoid, which is also consistant with results of genetic study. Both were
published in Scientific Americanfew years earlier.
These results and the similarities between Sankrit and Tamil (and
other Dravidian languages ) indicates that early Tamil ( proto Dravidian ) and early
Sanskrit were akins ( i.e. having an immediate ancestor ). However I donot subscribe
to opinions spread by some parties esp. BJP that Tamil is derived from Sanskrit.
> history, languages such as Turkish, Vietnamese, and all the European languages
> German, English, Spanish,etc were arbitrariliy latinized for convenience.
> About the Baluch tribe - They speak Brahui. This is a proto Dravidian
> language. Brahui, Kartavelyan, Armenian, South indian languages, etc. are
> proto Elamite (Remember Ahasuares in the Bible, the great Elamite king
There are two places mentioned in the Bible and results of Biblical archeology
which has tamil like names. Ur a city near to the place where Euphrates and
Tigris rivers come closest before they join together and an area possibly a number
of villages or a city knwon as Elam ( pronounced like the Eel-a-hm ) which was the
area of Persis mountains in Iran Iraq border. The Bible describes Elamites as
the descendants of Elam a relative of the forefather of Jews ( described in Biblical
geneology ) or the occupants of the city of Elam. the Bible names the city and the
ancestor the occupants with the same name. However neither the Bible nor Biblical
archelogies conducted later gave any clear links between these ans anything in India
or dravidian. Incidently the forefather of Jews Abraham was from the city of Ur.
> whose domain extended all the way to india - notice the similarity of the
> title which means king in Hebrew, with the word Asura, or Ahura in pehlavi).
May be but you cannot assume this without probing into the etymology of the
Hebrew word.
> The Armenians by the way were classified as Aryan by the Nazis, who
> for some strange reason seem to be the official aryan labelling body in
> history.
> I find it sickening to read these postings where people try to
> claim decendency from some "noble" race. To study races academically in an
> objective way is one thing, but to try and prove that ones lineage can be
> traced to a noble tribe, which was the prime motive of Max Muller's research,
> and to draw pride from it is shallow, and proof in itself that ancestry has
True, Also I donot believe in the supposed similarities in appearance between the
the so called Aryans in India and the people of Germania. Latin the one of the languages
which is very close to Sankrit on whose basis all this claims were spoken by Romans.
And average height of a Roman male was 5'2'', knwon from Roman history ( To blast
one of the claim that Aryans were tall ). Also Biblical Archeology
has found a place known as Aria which is modern day Agfanistan and may be part of current
Pakistan too. If at all the word Aryan was used in Indian Vedas or Puranas it would have
just ment people from the land of Aria and not a race, in the same way asDravidian ment people
from the land called Dravida which was described as the southern province of India.
> nothing to do with nobility of the self.
>
> Khorda Avesta
> -------------
>
> Drvasp Yasht
> ------------
> dazdi-me vanguhi sevishte
> drvaspe tat ayaptem
> yat bavani aiwi-vanya
> vispe daeva mazanya
> yatha azem noit tarshto fra-nmane
> thwaeshat paro daevaeibyo
> fra ahmat paro vispe daeva
> anuso tarshta nemante
> tarshta temangho dvarante.
>
> Translation:
> ------------
> 'Grant me this boon, O good, most beneficent Drvaspa! that I may overcome all
> the Daevas of Mazana; that I may never fear and bow through terror before the
> Daevas, but that all the Daevas may fear and bow in spite of themselves before
> me, that they may fear and flee down to darkness.'
>
Pradeep Kumar [TEMP]
In article 7...@cas.org, Benny Varkey <bc...@cas.org> writes:
> Biju Jacob wrote:
> >
> > I just have one question for all you Royal Caste members. Have you
> > achieved anything worth talking about in YOUR lifetime on this planet?
> > Or do you have to go back centuries to find something to brag about?
What is worth talking about, it varies from person to person.
One may be a content person earning 2000 Rs salary in a village and
accepting life/human condition, whereas someother may want to build their
fame, build something for others, money base or whatever.
> >
> > Is it any wonder why India is in such a sad shape? Sometimes I am
> > convinced that we have the highest concentration of morons and assholes
> > of any nation. As if this is not bad enough, these nimrods have to puke
> > their pathetic, narrow-minded, ethno-centric views on the net for the
> > whole world to see.
Well India is poor, and confused, it's just a matter of time. As for
morons and assholes, there are many. The histroy of USA started some 400 years
back, and india's god alone knows. So be proud to accept that our culture has
lot of stuff for the curious minded.
> > What you morons don't realize is that by expressing your brain-dead views,
> > you are disproving your own theories of superiority.
Well if somebody was superior in the past, that's the truth accept it.
It's always fun to analyse why they were superior. You don't have to accept
them as superior now.
> Dear Biju,
>
> It is better that these concepts of misconceptions that people have
> be discussed, lest they remain dormant in their minds and create
> further problems.
>
> As for the net it is built for communicating everything that people
> want to discuss, to be used as an instrument to seek knowledge as
> truth. Not just for enjoying worldly pleasures as indicated by you.
>
> Life is not just to enjoy the worldly pleasures, but to seek truth
> and knwoledge which will be used for the good of society.
>
> Your sarcasm is obviously due to your lack of knowledge. And of course
> don't forget the title of this thread , soc.culture.indian.kerala.
> If you are a pleasure seeker as indicated by you please go to
> some other thread.
>
> As for the original posts which started this discussion, I don't think
> anyone was aware of the whole truth, however everyone tried to present
> whatever they believed as truth.
>
> Benny Varkey.
---
Please reply to Pradee...@sun.com and do not
use the reply facility
Benny Varkey
Biju Jacob wrote:
>
> I just have one question for all you Royal Caste members. Have you
> achieved anything worth talking about in YOUR lifetime on this planet?
> Or do you have to go back centuries to find something to brag about?
>
> convinced that we have the highest concentration of morons and assholes
> of any nation. As if this is not bad enough, these nimrods have to puke
> their pathetic, narrow-minded, ethno-centric views on the net for the
> whole world to see.
> you are disproving your own theories of superiority.
>
>
> LIFE'S SHORT. PLAY HARD!
Dear Biju,
Krishnakumar B. Pillai
In article <3207EB...@cas.org>, Benny Varkey <bva...@cas.org> wrote:
>
>I agree with many of your views but not this one and your objection to
>Malayalam being classified as a dravidian language.
>
as dravidian. What bothers me is the existance of the the dravid/aryan
schism. The term Aryan lands referred to provinces in Iran. It means nothing
more than the term "noble".
>
>These results and the similarities between Sankrit and Tamil (and
>other Dravidian languages ) indicates that early Tamil ( proto Dravidian ) and early
>Sanskrit were akins ( i.e. having an immediate ancestor ). However I donot subscribe
>to opinions spread by some parties esp. BJP that Tamil is derived from Sanskrit.
>
>which has tamil like names. Ur a city near to the place where Euphrates and
>Tigris rivers come closest before they join together and an area possibly a number
>of villages or a city knwon as Elam ( pronounced like the Eel-a-hm ) which was the
>area of Persis mountains in Iran Iraq border. The Bible describes Elamites as
>the descendants of Elam a relative of the forefather of Jews ( described in Biblical
>geneology ) or the occupants of the city of Elam. the Bible names the city and the
>ancestor the occupants with the same name. However neither the Bible nor Biblical
>archelogies conducted later gave any clear links between these ans anything in India
>or dravidian. Incidently the forefather of Jews Abraham was from the city of Ur.
>
>> whose domain extended all the way to india - notice the similarity of the
>> title which means king in Hebrew, with the word Asura, or Ahura in pehlavi).
>
>May be but you cannot assume this without probing into the etymology of the
>Hebrew word.
>
The similarity was not an assumption at all. In fact this is something
Dr. David Levine of Cambridge confirmed, after I pointed it out to him.
I remember him saying that Xerxes ( Ahasuares' other name ) was a perversion
of the Pehlavi term Kshayarsha (Ksharthriya). So you have two terms here-
1. Ahasuares (Asura)
2. Xerxes (Kshathriya)
refering to the same great king.
>
>Pakistan too. If at all the word Aryan was used in Indian Vedas or Puranas it would have
>just ment people from the land of Aria and not a race, in the same way asDravidian ment people
>from the land called Dravida which was described as the southern province of India.
>
>
That is exactly my point too. To try and map the Aryan/Dravidian schism
onto the Deva/Asura division is absurd as evidenced by the "Avesta". This
scripture uses the word "Aryan" to refer to Asura Kings. Take a look at Shiva
(Pashupathi in the ancient Aryan text). He is supposedly a dravidian or
a southern god. This assumption is baseless since there is no entity more
northern than Shiva, if you consider the following.
Early settlers in the Indo-Gangetic plains would of course have
experienced tremors set off by teutonic plate movements close to the himalayas.
Reports from various villages would tell them right away that the epicenter lay
somewhere in the Himalayas. The natural inference - There is a mighty god up
there in the Himalayas who goes on a cosmic dance of destruction to show his
displeasure. Shiva can thus only be a Northern creation. In other words any
community that looks upon Shiva an explanation of natural phenomena should have
been exposed to an environment that exists only in Northern U.P and Nepal.
Take a look at Krishna. The name in Sanskrit means dark skinned. He is
supposedly the most Aryan god ever. He even suggests that people rejoice at the
death of Gatotkacha since that giant is after all, a nonaryan. Yet, he comes to
be considered equivalent to God only after he openly protests against the great
God Indra himself (Govardhana Giri incident). He even stops the ancient Soma
Yagna that was being done in Indra's name, a very nonaryan thing to do by
contemporary interpretation. The first revolt ever against the "Aryans".
The point I'm trying to make is that the term Aryan has no racial
meaning whatsoever. The dark-skinned Krishna is an Aryan. The term Aryan
does not mean northern; it simply means noble. To assume that Aryan is the
antonym of Dravidian is to suggest that Southerners are ignoble. The innuendo
is appaling and something that ought to be corrected.