Why Kannadigas are faring bad in UPSC examinations (examinations for Indian Government jobs)?
muthu
Government jobs)? Of the 1185 selected for steno jobs in 2002, less 40 are
from Karnataka. Why?
Read the first article at
http://www.geocities.com/tamiltribune
If you don't read anything else there, at least read Sectio 5.
DG
fanaticism in the newsgroup.
"muthu" <mu...@deja.com> wrote in message
news:bRYla.57281$ja4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
muthu
giving a "pat answer"?
"DG" <d...@nomail.com> wrote in message news:b7aeii$b4u$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Prudence
> Why don't you respond to the VALID POINTS raised in the article instead of
> giving a "pat answer"?
25 states, 40 successful candidates per states. Adds up to 1000. Fair
representation, I must say.
And while we are at it, can you explain why most public sector jobs
are filled with Tamils, especially in Karnataka?
Sesh
why are there hardly any tamils in the IT industry..be it Bangalore or
anywhere else?
Why does hardly any IT industry go to TamilNadu? Some talent problem?
Some massive attitude problem with the Tamils?
We dont want any self-delusioned answers from the owner the initial thread,
like the Pakistanis write self-delusioned answers.
The point is unless Muthu or whatever wants to roll in mud and dirt, there
is no point in such crappy comparisions. If Muthu is so darn smart, we would
like to see something positive as contribution and not mud slinging posts.
Trust to keep things clean?
- Sesh
"Prudence" <newsgrou...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:461a8fe9.03041...@posting.google.com...
sudeep
> representation, I must say.
Yeah sure ...Goa and UP deserve the same number as far as
representations go. So why dont we have 20 Lok Sabha members per state
?
>
> And while we are at it, can you explain why most public sector jobs
> are filled with Tamils, especially in Karnataka?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is sick...What is even more galling that in our great country ,
the only thing that is NOT considered for a government job is merit.
Actual considerations are bribe , recommendation, SC/ST , language ,
lobby , couch casting ...you name it ...
And so , our government servants are the scum of the country , who got
there , not so much by merit , but by other means. And its the private
sector hard working tax paying person who pays their salary.
I wonder what happens to the close to a lakh rupees I pay in tax each
year...
DG
> year...
Didn't find it out yet. Look at the vaults of the politicians!
ajuba
1) Firstly Bangalore was made hub of industries from early
independence by opening companies/public sectors like
HMT,NGEF,BEL,BHEL,ITI,HAL... Naturally people wanted get into see
public sectors. Hence interest and hype of ICS exam is less among
kannadigas.
2) Secondly growth of software industry pulled lot of kannadigas to
companies like infosys,tcs,wipro,microland....who paid much better
than ICS.
3)Karanataka has heighest engineering/medical colleges in india. You
naturally find technical people who have less interest in UPSC/KPSC.
4)Just think of other states like UP bihar for them ICS is ultimate
...but for kannadiga being succesfull technical field is more
profitable.
5) Last but not least the subject in ICS exam sucks...there is no
subject as "computer science" ..stupid UPSC expect IAS all computer
sci to take up electrical engineering or maths...About Hindi , I do
not think this is problem since Most kannadigas know Hindi...we fully
accept it as national language and learn it with full respect to
nation.
I myself wanted to try ICS but being in software I was paid better
than IAS guy. People talk about power..esteem...But we can not get
everything ...simillarly everyone thinks....
subramani
colleges in Karnataka are non-kannadigas. Many states have colleges
almost equal to the number of colleges in Karnataka. So it's not just
Kannadigas who want to be technical.
Sesh, The largest language group in IT in Bangalore is not kannadigas.
It is Tamils and Kannadigas are third behind Andhrites. Even among the
so called kannadigas most of them are Reddys the original inhabitants
of Bangalore who in public speak Kannada and a significant number of
kannada speaking tamils like Iyengars and Iyers who have been living
in Karnataka for long time. Also in IT Chennai is second behind
Bangalore if you don't consider Delhi, Noida and gurgoan as one place.
In 2000 – 2001 all the top 10 companies had development centers in
Chennai. Most of the companies like Satyam, HCL, Wipro, Infosys have
development centers in Chennai but head offices elsewhere so the
profits are not mentioned under Chennai. In a survey last year NASSCOM
has said that Chennai is the best place for ITES with sturdier
infrastructure and better IT talent than Bangalore. The only problem
according to them is city perception. Many people like you don't know
what is happening in Chennai but still comment on it. Infact the best
IT park in India is in Chennai not in Bangalore. It is larger than
ITPL but the space was sold out much much faster than at ITPL.
For your information Bangalore is a major IT city due to PSUs. But all
the PSUs have majority tamils. Before IT boom it was around 80%. These
are the guys who joined the IT industries when it was started.
Now talking about our nation and Hindi being our national language. I
have one question. When the PSUs were started in Bangalore almost all
the employees were tamils but still more PSUs were started in
Bangalore and none in Tamilnadu why?
The richest place in TN is western TN and it has no PSUs. A small town
like Tirupur has exports over $1 billion. In 2001-2002 TN had the
highest FDI, more than Maharashtra. Chennai has Hyundai, Saint Gabain,
Ford and many such non-IT MNCs but no PSUs other than ICF I guess. The
reason is Tamils have pride in their language which the north Indians
who have the power don't like and they hate Tamils and Tamilnadu.
Bangalore gained from it. Kannadigas talk a lot about kannada and want
all the tamils( Bangalore has 31% kannadigas, 30% tamils) to speak
kannada. But they have no problem with North Indians who can't speak a
word in Kannada. North Indians consider Bangalore as a Hindi speaking
north Indian city in south India. So comparing Bangalore's
developments with Kannadigas is absurd. You might not like Tamils but
you can't ignore the facts. Know the facts before you comment.
C Nagappa
I did not read the original post in this thread but your post also looks a
trifle opinionated. Also I don't know where you get your statistics from.
Bangalore is the most comopolitan city in South India, and in that respect
it is very much like Bombay. So while it is wrong to say that Bangalore is
the way it is only because of Kannadigas it is equally wrong to say that it
is only due to Tamilians.
Bangalore has benefited from all people who settled there and they include
hard working Malayalis, enterprising Punjabis, smart Parsees, schrewd
Marwaris and learned Tamilians. (Note that these adjectives are for
illustrative purposes only and can be interchanged between groups). Having
said that, Bangalore has also benefited because of tolerant Kannadigas who
are equally capable in every way. Note that by definition, the state of
Karnataka was not formed only because of Karnataka but also because of other
linguistic groups that form part of the 'Carnatic'.These groups include
people from Mangalore who speak Tulu, from Coorg who speak Kodava-tak, from
Karwar who speak Konkani and Bijapur who speak Urdu.
As for the Kannadiga chauvinists, they are an ignorant bunch just like any
such ignorant bunch that exists in a major city which had an influx of
people from outside. But despite these chauvinists (whom I believe are a
minority among Kannadigas), Bangalore is still a very tolerant place for
newcomers - certainly more tolerant than Mumbai and probably more tolerant
that Chennai. Note that the leading political parties are Janata and
Congress. There are no regional parties like Shiv Sena, AIADMK or Telugu
Desam there.
As regards Chennai vs. Banagalore as a preferred IT destination, one of the
reasons why Bangalore has benefited is due to the cooler climate and
open-minded outlook. In contrast Chennai is a trifle balmy and conservative.
I know that because I have lived in Chennai for four years (I got my BE from
Anna Univerity). While there's no doubt as to the dedication and academic
prowess of the Tamilian students, the atmosphere there was quite
conservative and stifling. A lot of the Tamilian students there were quite
narrow-minded and also quite chauvinistic as far as Tamil was concerned. By
the time I completed my four-year BE there I was quite fluent in Tamil and
so where all other out-state students (including Sardars from Chandigarh and
Sikkimese from Gangtok). Now that was fifteen years ago. Tamil Nadu was a
police state then, and is still somewhat of a police state now with 'Amma'
(Jayalalitha) in power. Tamil is certainly a required language to live in
Chennai. Whereas Kannada is certainly not a required language in Bangalore.
And here is my pet theory about the success of high-tech businesses. To
succeed in a high-tech business you need intelligent people. That is a
given. But to really excel in a high-tech business, intelligence (in the
traditional sense) is not good enough. You also need smart, open minded and
well-rounded people. This is where Bangalore excels whereas Chennai and
Hyderabad are second-tier - despite the incentives and infrastructural
advantages which both Chennai and Hyderabad have over Bangalore. This is a
key factor, IMHO, in Microsoft finally coming to their senses and investing
in Bangalore.
Cheers,
C Nagappa
"subramani" <subra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:67c01409.03052...@posting.google.com...
> Too many assumptions. Majorities of the students who pass out of the
> colleges in Karnataka are non-kannadigas. Many states have colleges
> almost equal to the number of colleges in Karnataka. So it's not just
> Kannadigas who want to be technical.
> Sesh, The largest language group in IT in Bangalore is not kannadigas.
> It is Tamils and Kannadigas are third behind Andhrites. Even among the
> so called kannadigas most of them are Reddys the original inhabitants
> of Bangalore who in public speak Kannada and a significant number of
> kannada speaking tamils like Iyengars and Iyers who have been living
> in Karnataka for long time. Also in IT Chennai is second behind
> Bangalore if you don't consider Delhi, Noida and gurgoan as one place.
> In 2000 - 2001 all the top 10 companies had development centers in
subramani
Nagappa,
> Subramani,
> I did not read the original post in this thread but your post also looks a
> trifle opinionated. Also I don't know where you get your statistics from.
The top twenty companies' list is released by NASSCOM every year.
The top 5 companies(in 2001) which do not have an office in Bangalore
are Satyam, HCL Tech.,CTS, Pentasoft and Pentamedia and Silverline.
The % of kannadigas and tamils in Bangalore was published in
newspapers by the Karnataka Gov a few months back, so should be
available on their web sites.
About the highest FDI in 2001 and Tidel Park the details were provided
in most of the newspapers. Also it is common knowledge that Tamilnadu
is the second in the IT exporters list.
Karnataka has many eng. colleges but only three are GOV-controlled,
KREC, UVCE and UBDT. The remaining are private colleges. When I
studied in early 90s majority of the students there were
non-kannadigas. At KREC again we have seats reserved for non-Karnataka
students. At the remaining two colleges we have defense quota and
quota for northeastern states. If a person studies for 5 years in
Karnataka he is eligible for a seat. So many students especially from
kolar, Bellary, Raichur and other such poor border districts are from
other states.
About the percentage of people in IT in Bangalore, I work in the
largest MNC in Bangalore and I see very few kannadigas. This is the
case in other companies I and my friends have worked in. This is also
the case in major schools and colleges in Bangalore. I studied in
St.Josephs and I never had more than 3 kannadigas in the class of 100.
Though we had around 10 Bengalis. It is never directly propotional to
the population.
>
> Bangalore is the most comopolitan city in South India, and in that respect
> it is very much like Bombay. So while it is wrong to say that Bangalore is
> the way it is only because of Kannadigas it is equally wrong to say that it
> is only due to Tamilians.
Agree. But even Chennai has around 35% Telugu people a large number of
malayalees and kannadigas. The area around Purushawakkam high road and
poonamallee road like Kilpauk gardens, Shenoy nagar is mainly north
indian.
>
> Bangalore has benefited from all people who settled there and they include
> hard working Malayalis, enterprising Punjabis, smart Parsees, schrewd
> Marwaris and learned Tamilians. (Note that these adjectives are for
> illustrative purposes only and can be interchanged between groups). Having
> said that, Bangalore has also benefited because of tolerant Kannadigas who
> are equally capable in every way. Note that by definition, the state of
> Karnataka was not formed only because of Karnataka but also because of other
> linguistic groups that form part of the 'Carnatic'.These groups include
> people from Mangalore who speak Tulu, from Coorg who speak Kodava-tak, from
> Karwar who speak Konkani and Bijapur who speak Urdu.
I do not agree that kannadigas are tolerant. Even at my Company, which
is the largest MNC in Bangalore, we had some very ugly comments made
by kannadigas during kaveri problem when they were in no way affected
by it. I was raised in Bangalore. My father worked in ITI, the first
public sector of India, which was started in 1951. Though most of the
employees were tamils the ITI theatre which is for the employees shows
movies in any other language other than tamil, i.e. kannada, Hindi,
telugu, malayalam, English etc. But no Tamil movies even if they get
barely a dozen guys for movies other than English. Every time a
tamilian is in line to be promoted as MD we have trouble. When cable
TV was started in ITI colony the cables were all destroyed because
they telecast Tamil channels.
Artists from TN were attacked for singing Tamil songs within the
premises of Tamil mandram. The Rev. father(priest) in the church had
his skull broken by a member of his church because he held masses in
Tamil. I can go on. I know that the main problem is other parts of
Karnataka are not as industrialized so most of them migrate to
Bangalore for better jobs. But when they find Tamils at most of the
places they start blaming them for all their troubles and start hating
them.
>
> As for the Kannadiga chauvinists, they are an ignorant bunch just like any
> such ignorant bunch that exists in a major city which had an influx of
> people from outside. But despite these chauvinists (whom I believe are a
> minority among Kannadigas), Bangalore is still a very tolerant place for
> newcomers - certainly more tolerant than Mumbai and probably more tolerant
> that Chennai. Note that the leading political parties are Janata and
> Congress. There are no regional parties like Shiv Sena, AIADMK or Telugu
> Desam there.
The difference between Chennai and other cities is, In Chennai though
they prefer to speak only in tamil and any common man from other
states has to learn tamil to survive in Chennai they will never attack
you for speaking your language or practicing your religion. They will
ignore you but not attack you. This is the reason you never have any
communal problem in Chennai.
> As regards Chennai vs. Banagalore as a preferred IT destination, one of the
> reasons why Bangalore has benefited is due to the cooler climate and
> open-minded outlook. In contrast Chennai is a trifle balmy and conservative.
> I know that because I have lived in Chennai for four years (I got my BE from
> Anna Univerity). While there's no doubt as to the dedication and academic
> prowess of the Tamilian students, the atmosphere there was quite
> conservative and stifling. A lot of the Tamilian students there were quite
> narrow-minded and also quite chauvinistic as far as Tamil was concerned. By
> the time I completed my four-year BE there I was quite fluent in Tamil and
> so where all other out-state students (including Sardars from Chandigarh and
> Sikkimese from Gangtok). Now that was fifteen years ago. Tamil Nadu was a
> police state then, and is still somewhat of a police state now with 'Amma'
> (Jayalalitha) in power. Tamil is certainly a required language to live in
> Chennai. Whereas Kannada is certainly not a required language in Bangalore.
You certainly don't need tamil to work in an IT company in Chennai.
Agreed that people from other states prefer Bangalore more than
Chennai due to the weather and generally people have wrong opinions
about Chennai and Tamils.
For example in 96 when I joined a company in Chennai the guys from
places like madurai and Trichy were talking about booking tickets in
air buses. When a kannadiga asked another what an air bus is he
laughed and told them since TN doesn't have many luxury buses they
call the luxury bus an air bus. The fact is at that time Karnataka and
other southern states had no buses with air suspension. It is common
knowledge now in Bangalore that buses with air suspensions are called
air buses. This is a typical example where TN is better but other
people think it is worst.
>
> And here is my pet theory about the success of high-tech businesses. To
> succeed in a high-tech business you need intelligent people. That is a
> given. But to really excel in a high-tech business, intelligence (in the
> traditional sense) is not good enough. You also need smart, open minded and
> well-rounded people. This is where Bangalore excels whereas Chennai and
> Hyderabad are second-tier - despite the incentives and infrastructural
> advantages which both Chennai and Hyderabad have over Bangalore. This is a
> key factor, IMHO, in Microsoft finally coming to their senses and investing
> in Bangalore.
>
Agreed that you also need smart, open minded and well-rounded people.
But a lot of them come from PSUs and a lot them come from TN. So I
would say Tamils are not as bad as people especially Kannadigas and
north indians think they are.
ajuba
See the topic before you write something. It is not Hindi vs tamil or
Kannada vs tamil. It is about kannadigas in UPSC. So we are giving
reasons for that. Ok now tell me can you give some valid reasons for
this.
You Tamilians seems to not have any other work other than point on
hindi kannada. any person can learn any language within months. So
that is not point here. Problem is attitude.
I myself know 6 languages including hindi , kannada & tamil. I do not
see one greater than other in any way. Languages is only to
communicate does not represent anything else.
Now write if you have any valid point about UPSC ...My whole arguement
if you can read is not about kannada-hindi- tami but Karanataka people
are interested in technical carrier ...than UPSC.
If you can extend this do other wise get lost you filthy fanatic
...people like you spoil the whole mood. Frankly bunch of tamilians
like you are spoiling TN image on web
Muthu
Since you seem to have a point, I spent more than 2 hours tracking the
original source (not the tamiltribune article).
These are the facts. 87% of students from W. Bengal and the 4 southern
states who took that steno exam for UPSC failed. 34% of students from
Bihar, Madya Pradesh and Uttaer Pradesh failed. So, Hindi has
something to do with this.
It makes sense. A Hindian writing an essay is not same as a South
Indian who studied Hindi writing an essay in Hindi. Let us make the
playing field interesting. How about Hindians write an essay in a
south Indian language while south indians write in Hindi?
C Nagappa
Thanks for posting the source of your statistics. I agree to take them at
face value. But I still fail to get the point you are trying to make with
all those statistics. So what if only 3% of your classmates in Josephs were
Kannadigas! I studied in Bishop Cottons where roughly 20% of the students
were Kannadiga. It only reflects the cutural diversity of the place.
My points have nothing to do with Kannadigas versus Tamilians. They have to
do with Bangalore versus Chennai as a preferred IT destination.
I still disagree with some points you made.
#1
In your ealier post (regarding PSU's being started in Bangalore), you say:
> > > reason is Tamils have pride in their language which the north Indians
> > > who have the power don't like and they hate Tamils and Tamilnadu.
That statement is absolutely absurd. Also it probably reflects a persecution
complex which I think you have.
First, PSU's were started in Bangalore because of the suitable environment,
infrastructure (at that time) and availability of skilled manpower. It had
nothing to do with Kannadigas or Tamils.
Secondly, North Indians certainly don't hate Tamils. In fact, the opposite
is probably true. The stereotypical impression of Tamils (and of all South
Indians in general) in North India is that of a learned and cultured
people - if a little on the conservative side. In fact, many North Indians
(particularly Punjabis) find these qualities in Tamils quite endearing. (For
better or worse, even to this date, many north Indians think of all south
Indians as Madrasis).
I know for a fact that when IT companies are hiring (even in New Delhi), the
moment they see a resume/cv with the long name of a south Indian (mostly
Tamil), who has the requisite qualifications, they are likely to consider
that person for the job. They know that the Tamil is probably going to
diligent and hard working.
#2
In your post, you state that people invest in Bangalore because they have
the wrong impression about Chennai:
> Agreed that people from other states prefer Bangalore more than
> Chennai due to the weather and generally people have wrong opinions
> about Chennai and Tamils.
> ...
> air buses. This is a typical example where TN is better but other
> people think it is worst.
Wrong again. Many Indians, including Bangaloreans and North Indians have a
favourable impression of Chennai. I for one love the Chennai Airport, which
is way better than Bangalore's.
People like Chennai for a lot of things it offers, including the better
infrastructure. However they don't want to settle or work there because of
the conservative culture. That really is the fundamental issue.
As regards IT industry, I believe that Chennai is still a great IT
destination with its talented pool of engineers. But while the guys from
Chennai are smart in the technical front, many lack the cosmopolitan
qualities that might consider them managerial material - which is also
critical in the IT business. I am talking about an open-minded attitude,
which is lacking in Chennai (not totally, but in comparison Bangalore).
When I was stuying at Anna university in Chennai (more that fifteen years
ago) there were too many Tamil cliques in which everyone spoke advanced
Tamil (and they spoke very fast). This made it extremely difficult for
out-of-state students to undertand or want to join.
Furthermore, many of the local Tamils had the belief and attitude that Tamil
culture was superior to other cultures. Some would even say that Tamil is
the oldest language in the world. (This caused quite a bit of consternation
in my Sikkimese friend, who remarked that "then, does it mean that my
ancestors were not speaking anything while yours were speaking Tamil!") So
much so, that most of the out-of-state students tended to form their own
groups (which also included out-of-state Tamils who were more "cosmopolitan"
than the local Tamils). Note that many North Indians had their own
Hindi-only cliques, but to a much lesser extent.
I find this language clique thing probably not good on the long run,
especially when carried into the workplace. One thing it certainly does is
cause a little bit unease with those who cannot speak the language. Another
thing it does is put you in the category of those who do not get considered
for promotion to management positions.
Another case in point:
My (US based) company sent me to Singapore for a project with a major
company there. When I arrived there I was pleasantly surprised to find that
about 75% of the programmers were Indians. Actually nearly every Indian
there was Tamil from Chennai or Tamil Nadu. Tamil was being spoken
everywhere. Only, it happened that among the managers I was dealing with,
only one was Tamil (who happened to be a guy from Bangalore!). The rest of
the managers were all mostly Chinese Singaporean and a couple of Europeans.
There was only one other Indian manager, who was Bengali. I tried to figure
why, while about 75% of the programmers were Tamil, only one manager was
Tamil . There were two reasons I could come up with:
1. Singaporeans are known to prefer Chinese Singaporeans over Indians
2. Nearly of the Indian programmers were speaking amongst themselves in
Tamil, not English.
I found the reason #2 to be more true than #1. Speaking a language that is
not understandible
to the locals is OK, as long as it is done mostly privately. But this is is
a work environment, where the local language is English. Naturally, the
management in a corporation that speaks English will never consider
promoting guys who spoke their local tongue.
This happens as well to a degree in workplace here in the US and Canada. In
the company cafeteria area you sometimes find guys huddled together speaking
their native language. (Not only Indians, but also Chinese and other
nationalities). I find that these guys never get promoted. Later, these same
guys keep wondering why they never get promoted and they keep attributing it
to racism. While there's no denying that racism does exist, that is not the
reason why these foriegn guys did not get promoted.
There's an old adage which goes "when in Rome, do as Romans do". I cannot
find this to be more true. In a multi-ethnic workplace it is so important to
blend in with the common work culture.
#3
Regarding the tolerance of Kannadigas, you say:
> I do not agree that kannadigas are tolerant. Even at my Company, which
> is the largest MNC in Bangalore, we had some very ugly comments made
> by kannadigas during kaveri problem when they were in no way affected
> by it.
While I don't deny some ugly incidents may have happened vis-a-vis the
Kaveri dispute, I still maintain that the vast majority of Kannadigas are
tolerant and never have a problem with anyone speaking any language, let
alone beat you up for speaking Tamil.
The regrettable violence against Tamils you describe is politically
inspired. These acts of violence are instigated by hate-mongers who play the
communal card in order to get support and votes. Some of these people come
from as far as Mandya (supporters of KRRS) and have strong political power,
even though they are the minority among Kannadigas. Unfortunately, these
kinds of political groups exist in most places in India where there exist a
large influx of migrant groups. These kind of political groups include Shiv
Sena (violence against non-Marathis), VHP (violence against Muslims),
Bajrang Dal (violence agains Christians), etc.
I can tell you for certain that most Kannadigas I know don't want Kannada to
be compulsary in schools. They also find it a nuisance when the Kaveri
dispute arises and the Bangalore-Mysore highway is blocked at Mandya by
agitators from there.
Sesh
>>
colleges in Karnataka are non-kannadigas. Many states have colleges
almost equal to the number of colleges in Karnataka. So it's not just
Kannadigas who want to be technical.
Sesh, The largest language group in IT in Bangalore is not kannadigas.
It is Tamils and Kannadigas are third behind Andhrites. Even among the
so called kannadigas most of them are Reddys the original inhabitants
of Bangalore who in public speak Kannada and a significant number of
kannada speaking tamils like Iyengars and Iyers who have been living
in Karnataka for long time. Also in IT Chennai is second behind
Bangalore if you don't consider Delhi, Noida and gurgoan as one place.