The plight of BRAHMINS ( by Meenakshi Jain)
BABU RAMABADRAN
Title : The plight of Brahmins (Part Two of Four)
I hope that the following article by Meenakshi Jain will help to
reduce the tension between low caste people and others. It is important
to know that the Christian missionary have been very vocal in
criticizing brahmins. Please read the whole story.
I hope that the caste war unleashed by Laloo and Mulayam will be
controlled.
Regards,
babu ramabadran
========article by Meenakshi Jain==========================
Author : Meenakshi Jain
Publication : The Indian Express
Date : September 18, 1990
The Mandal Commission report marks the culmination of the
attempt at social engineering that began with the
Christian missionary (followed by British governmental)
campaigns against the Brahmin community in the early part
of the 19th century. It was not accidental that Brahmins
emerged as the principal target of British attacks.
Britishers of all pursuits, missionaries, administrators
and orientalists, were quick to grasp their pivotal role
in the Indian social arrangement.
They were all agreed that religious ideas and practices
underlay the entire social structure and that, as
custodians of the sacred tradition, Brahmins were the
principal integrating force. This made them the natural
target of those seeking to fragment, indeed atomise,
Indian society. This was as true of the British
conquerors as it was of Muslim rules in the preceding
centuries. Mandal takes off from where the British left.
Worst suspicious
The British were not wrong in their distrust of educated
Brahmins in whom they saw a potential threat to their
supremacy in India. For instance, in 1879 the Collector
of Tanjore in a communication to Sir James, member of the
Famine Commission, stated that "there was no class
(except Brahmins) which was so hostile to the English."
The predominance of the Brahmins in the freedom movement
confirmed the worst British suspicious of the community.
In-numerable CID reports of the period commented on
Brahmin participation at all levels of the nationalist
movement. In the words of an observer, "If any community
could claim credit for drving the British out of the
country, it was the Brahmin community. Seventy per cent
of those who were felled by British bullets were
Brahmin."
To counter what they perceived a Brahminial challenge,
the British launched on the one hand a major ideological
attack on the Brahmins and, on the other, incited non-
Brahmin caste Hindus to press for preferential treatment,
a ploy that was to prove equally successful vis-a-vis the
Muslims.
In the attempt to rewrite Indian history, Brahmins began
to be portrayed as oppressors and a rants who wilfully
kept down the rest of the populace. Their role in the
development of Indian society was deliberately slighted.
In ancient times, for example, Brahmins played a major
part in the spread of new methods of cultivation
(especially the use of the plough and manure) in backward
and aboriginal areas. The Krsi-parasara, compiled during
this period, is testimony to their contribution in this
field.
But far more important was the Brahmin contribution to
the integration of society. So influenced are we by the
British view of our past that we completely ignore the
fact that the principle by which Brahmins achieved the
integration of various tribes and communities was unique
in world history.
This was perhaps the only case where all incoming group
were accommodated on their own terms. All aspects of
their beliefs and behaviour patterns were accepted as
legitimate and no attempt was made to compel them to
surrender or change their distinctive lifestyles. Each
group was left to evolve and change according to its
internal rhythm. What a contrast to the Christian method
of conversion by the sword and their effort to obliterate
all traces of the previous history of all converts.
Apart from misrepresenting the Indian past the British
actively encouraged anti-Brahmin sentiments. A number of
scholars have commented on their involvement in the anti-
Brahinin movement in South India. As a result of their
machinations non-Brahmins turned on the Brahmins with a
ferocity that has few parallels in Indian history. This
was all the more surprising in that for centuries
Brahmins and non-Brahmins had been active partners and
collaborators in the task of political and social
management.
Little difference
Some British observers themselves conceded that the
picture of the Brahmin as oppressor was overdrawn and
that in reality there was little difference in the
condition of the Brahmin and the rest of the native
population. H.T. Colebrooke, one of the early Sanskrit
scholars wrote, "Daily observation shows even Brahmins
exercising the menial profession of a Sudra ... it may be
received as a general maxim, that the occupation,
appointed for each tribe, is entitled merely to a
preference.
"Every profession, with few exceptions, is open to every
description of persons; and the discouragement, arising
from religious prejudices, is not greater than what
exists in Great Britain from the effects of Municipal and
Corporation laws."
The British census operations that began in the latter
part of the 19th century produced further distortions in
the Indian system. The British sought to interpret the
caste system in the light of their own per theories.
H.H. Risley who directed the 1901 census operations was,
for example, determined to demonstrate that "race
sentiment" formed the basis of the caste system and that
social precedence was based on the scale of racial
purity. The same race theory played havoc in Europe in
the form of Nazism and has now been fully repudiated.
The British, unmindful of the complexities and
intricacies of the social arrangement, sought to achieve
standardisation by placing all jatis in the four varnas
or in the categories of outcastes and aborigines. As a
result they destroyed the flexibility that was so vital
for the proper functioning of the system. The census
operations raised caste consciousness to a feverish
pitch, incited caste animosities and led to an all-round
hardening of the system.
Frantic efforts
They led to frantic efforts at Sanskritisation and upward
nobility, so very different from the flexibility of
earlier times. When the system was made rigid everyone
wanted to be made of a higher varna. Caste consequently
became a tool in the political, religious and cultural
battles that the Hindus fought amongst themselves.
It is significant that the census operations coincided
with the attempt to reorganise the army on the basis of
the martial race theory. At about that time the British
were also beginning to raise questions about the relative
balance of Hindus and Muslims!e in the public services
and about the "monopoly" of certain castes in the new
education. There was also talk of the conspiracy of
certain castes to overthrow their rule.
The forces unleashed by the British continued to gather
momentum. The myth of the omnipotent Brahmin had been so
successfully sold that most Indians missed the
overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In recent years,
however, a number of studies have appeared that detail
the downward mobility that has been the chief
characteristic of the Brahmin community particularly
since independence.
Financially the Brahmins have been very hard hit. State
laws combined with fragmentation of land have had the
effect of substantially reducing the size of family
holdings so much so that most Brahmins today find it
difficult to eke out a living from land. Traditional
occupations like family and temple priesthood, recitation
of the Vedas and practice of Ayurvedic medicine no longer
prove remunerative nor command respect.
A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra
Pradesh, (Brahmins of India by J. Radhakrishna, published
by Chugh Publications) reveals that all purohits today
live below the poverty line. Eighty per cent of those
surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style
of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of
ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the
existing system of reservations for the "backward
classes" prevented them from providing secular education
to their children.
In fact according to this study there has been an overall
decline in the number of Brahmin students. The average
income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins,
a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the
intermediate level. In the 5-18 year age group, 44 per
cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary
level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.
Ale study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins
lived below the poverty line, is below a per capita
income of Rs. 65 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total
population of India is officially stated to be below the
poverty line, it that the percentage of destitute
Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.
There as no reason to believe that the condition of
Brahmins in other parts of the country is any different.
Appalling poverty
In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per
capita income of various communities as stated by the
Karnataka Finance Minister in the State Assembly on July
1, 1978: Christian Rs. 1562, Vokkaligas Rs. 914, Muslims
Rs. 794, Scheduled Castes Rs. 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs.
577 and Brahmins Rs. 537.
Appalling poverty compelled many Brahmins to migrate to
towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline
in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins
initially turned to government jobs and modern
occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential
policies for the non-Brahmins have forced the Brahmins to
retreat in these spheres as well. According to the
Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins
today are employed as clerks, followed by teachers. Over
15 per cent are employed as domestic servants. The
unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent.
Clearly it is time to sit up and see reality as it is
before we complete the task the British began - the
atomisation of Indian society and annihilation of Indian
civilisation.
Kunal Singh
In article <4tp9dn$m...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> bab...@ix.netcom.com(BABU RAMABADRAN) writes:
Title : The plight of Brahmins (Part Two of Four)
I hope that the following article by Meenakshi Jain will help to
reduce the tension between low caste people and others. It is important
to know that the Christian missionary have been very vocal in
criticizing brahmins. Please read the whole story.
Sure Ramabadran, blame it on someone else. What a novel idea!
I hope that the caste war unleashed by Laloo and Mulayam will be
controlled.
I doubt that this article will make a dent in Indian politics.
========article by Meenakshi Jain==========================
Author : Meenakshi Jain
Publication : The Indian Express
Date : September 18, 1990
The Mandal Commission report marks the culmination of the
attempt at social engineering that began with the
Christian missionary (followed by British governmental)
campaigns against the Brahmin community in the early part
of the 19th century. It was not accidental that Brahmins
emerged as the principal target of British attacks.
Britishers of all pursuits, missionaries, administrators
and orientalists, were quick to grasp their pivotal role
in the Indian social arrangement.
What about before the 19th century ? Who was responsible for the
Shaivite revolution, the Buddhist revolution, the Ajivika revolution ?
Which foreign hand was behind those declarations of war against the
Brahmins.
They were all agreed that religious ideas and practices
underlay the entire social structure and that, as
custodians of the sacred tradition, Brahmins were the
principal integrating force. This made them the natural
target of those seeking to fragment, indeed atomise,
Indian society. This was as true of the British
conquerors as it was of Muslim rules in the preceding
centuries. Mandal takes off from where the British left.
I hardly think that Brahmins could be deemed a integrating force after
the stories of Parashurama. Please get a brain, Ramabadran, and give
a part of it to the author of this article.
Worst suspicious
The British were not wrong in their distrust of educated
Brahmins in whom they saw a potential threat to their
supremacy in India. For instance, in 1879 the Collector
of Tanjore in a communication to Sir James, member of the
Famine Commission, stated that "there was no class
(except Brahmins) which was so hostile to the English."
Brahmins were hostile to invaders, and to Indian residents, whenever
they saw a chance to usurp power over the population. Initially, when
the British came to India before the sepoy rebellion, 70% of the
sepoys were from either Brahmin or Rajput caste -- therefore the panic
due to the rumour of beef fat in the cartridges etc.
The same Brahmins were said to have acquired special privileges for
themselves during the Mohammedan invasion of India, less or no
taxation etc. I would hardly consider the Brahmins to be staunch or
unusually energetic opponents of any invaders.
The predominance of the Brahmins in the freedom movement
confirmed the worst British suspicious of the community.
In-numerable CID reports of the period commented on
Brahmin participation at all levels of the nationalist
movement. In the words of an observer, "If any community
could claim credit for drving the British out of the
country, it was the Brahmin community. Seventy per cent
of those who were felled by British bullets were
Brahmin."
How about the predominance of Brahmins in the British service, both
administration and army ? Doesn't that count ? Could it be that the
Brahmins being the most prosperous community in India, were the only
ones who cared at that point about who ruled ? Could it be that they
and their obsessive compulsive practices were probably ridiculed more
by all external observers than anyone else ? Could it be that noone
else would possibly consider bald, vegetarian men with little "tikkis"
and ridiculous claims of powerful mantras superior to them, and that
bothered the Brahmins more than anyone else ?
To counter what they perceived a Brahminial challenge,
the British launched on the one hand a major ideological
attack on the Brahmins and, on the other, incited non-
Brahmin caste Hindus to press for preferential treatment,
a ploy that was to prove equally successful vis-a-vis the
Muslims.
In the attempt to rewrite Indian history, Brahmins began
to be portrayed as oppressors and a rants who wilfully
kept down the rest of the populace. Their role in the
development of Indian society was deliberately slighted.
In ancient times, for example, Brahmins played a major
part in the spread of new methods of cultivation
(especially the use of the plough and manure) in backward
and aboriginal areas. The Krsi-parasara, compiled during
this period, is testimony to their contribution in this
field.
Did the British rewrite the Puranas in Sanskrit as well where all the
Brahmins insist that all the other castes are their servants ? Did
they do that too ? Did they amend the Gita and the Ramayana with
stories of why all people should only do their caste duties ? Amazing
what the British could manage to do!
But far more important was the Brahmin contribution to
the integration of society. So influenced are we by the
British view of our past that we completely ignore the
fact that the principle by which Brahmins achieved the
integration of various tribes and communities was unique
in world history.
It was indeed unique. It resulted in untouchables and outcastes and a
silly group of bald vegetarian men with little "tikkis" chanting silly
mantras -- perhaps you should try reading Guru Gobind Singh's
experience with Brahmins claiming that they would make Durga appear.
.. stuff deleted ..
Apart from misrepresenting the Indian past the British
actively encouraged anti-Brahmin sentiments. A number of
scholars have commented on their involvement in the anti-
Brahinin movement in South India. As a result of their
machinations non-Brahmins turned on the Brahmins with a
ferocity that has few parallels in Indian history. This
was all the more surprising in that for centuries
Brahmins and non-Brahmins had been active partners and
collaborators in the task of political and social
management.
Ha, ha, ha! And how much has this Manish Jain read about the
centuries of active partnership between Brahmins and non-Brahmins ?
Little difference
Some British observers themselves conceded that the
picture of the Brahmin as oppressor was overdrawn and
that in reality there was little difference in the
condition of the Brahmin and the rest of the native
population. H.T. Colebrooke, one of the early Sanskrit
scholars wrote, "Daily observation shows even Brahmins
exercising the menial profession of a Sudra ... it may be
received as a general maxim, that the occupation,
appointed for each tribe, is entitled merely to a
preference.
There's a difference between being forced to be a Shudra due to the
presence of an invader. Perhaps this is why the Brahmins may have
been more upset than anyone else with the British invasion.
"Every profession, with few exceptions, is open to every
description of persons; and the discouragement, arising
from religious prejudices, is not greater than what
exists in Great Britain from the effects of Municipal and
Corporation laws."
But that was under British rule, wasn't it ? What claims can a
Brahmin make of having granted equality, when he wasn't in political
power ? What happened once a Brahmin took power after independence ?
.. stuff deleted ..
Financially the Brahmins have been very hard hit. State
laws combined with fragmentation of land have had the
effect of substantially reducing the size of family
holdings so much so that most Brahmins today find it
difficult to eke out a living from land. Traditional
occupations like family and temple priesthood, recitation
of the Vedas and practice of Ayurvedic medicine no longer
prove remunerative nor command respect.
Oh really ? Try to find a poor Brahmin in Bihar. Brahmins have a
thriving business and the line to have them perform marriage
ceremonies is so long that people complain that there aren't enough
Brahmins anymore to perform the ceremonies because they have all
adopted other better-paying urban professions.
A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra
Pradesh, (Brahmins of India by J. Radhakrishna, published
by Chugh Publications) reveals that all purohits today
live below the poverty line. Eighty per cent of those
surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style
of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of
ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the
existing system of reservations for the "backward
classes" prevented them from providing secular education
to their children.
Good! At least the lower castes can get some satisfaction from
watching their ridiculous hair-style!
In fact according to this study there has been an overall
decline in the number of Brahmin students. The average
income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins,
a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the
intermediate level. In the 5-18 year age group, 44 per
cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary
level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.
Ale study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins
lived below the poverty line, is below a per capita
income of Rs. 65 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total
population of India is officially stated to be below the
poverty line, it that the percentage of destitute
Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.
There as no reason to believe that the condition of
Brahmins in other parts of the country is any different.
Appalling poverty
In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per
capita income of various communities as stated by the
Karnataka Finance Minister in the State Assembly on July
1, 1978: Christian Rs. 1562, Vokkaligas Rs. 914, Muslims
Rs. 794, Scheduled Castes Rs. 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs.
577 and Brahmins Rs. 537.
I find this number very difficult to believe. Are you considering
only rural Brahmins engaged in temples ?
Appalling poverty compelled many Brahmins to migrate to
towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline
in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins
initially turned to government jobs and modern
occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential
policies for the non-Brahmins have forced the Brahmins to
retreat in these spheres as well. According to the
Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins
today are employed as clerks, followed by teachers. Over
15 per cent are employed as domestic servants. The
unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent.
Clearly it is time to sit up and see reality as it is
before we complete the task the British began - the
atomisation of Indian society and annihilation of Indian
civilisation.
On the contrary, the Indian civilization has flourished each and every
time it has challenged Brahminism.
Meenaradchagan Vishnu
In article <filofpg23p.fsf@swap31-220>, Kunal Singh <nnyxsi@swap31-220> wrote:
>
>In article <4tp9dn$m...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> bab...@ix.netcom.com(BABU RAMABADRAN) writes:
>
> Title : The plight of Brahmins (Part Two of Four)
> Brahmins in whom they saw a potential threat to their
> supremacy in India. For instance, in 1879 the Collector
> of Tanjore in a communication to Sir James, member of the
> Famine Commission, stated that "there was no class
> (except Brahmins) which was so hostile to the English."
>
>Brahmins were hostile to invaders, and to Indian residents, whenever
>they saw a chance to usurp power over the population. Initially, when
>the British came to India before the sepoy rebellion, 70% of the
>sepoys were from either Brahmin or Rajput caste -- therefore the panic
>due to the rumour of beef fat in the cartridges etc.
>
>The same Brahmins were said to have acquired special privileges for
>themselves during the Mohammedan invasion of India, less or no
>taxation etc. I would hardly consider the Brahmins to be staunch or
>unusually energetic opponents of any invaders.
Actually, the brahmins actively supported the Islamic conquest of
India. In a recently translated Arabic book titled "Chacnamah", which
chronicles the invasion of Debal, the first Indian country to fall to
the Muslims, it is written that even after several attempts, the the
Muslim forces could not breach the defense of Debal and it was only
with the help of Brahmins who gave away key military secrets to the
Arabs that the country fell to the Arab hands!
I can't believe the crap that was written in the original article.
Everyone knows that the caste system introduced and sanctioned by
brahmanism broke India's spine and pushed it to its present dark age.
Meenan Vishnu
Your Name
Who is this idiot Meenakshi Jain? Is he a friend of Arun Shourie (another
idiot previously working for the same newspaper)?
BABU RAMABADRAN
In <DvvIH...@novice.uwaterloo.ca> mvi...@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
(Meenaradchagan Vishnu) writes:
>
>In article <filofpg23p.fsf@swap31-220>, Kunal Singh
<nnyxsi@swap31-220> wrote:
>>
bab...@ix.netcom.com(BABU RAMABADRAN) writes:
>>
>> Title : The plight of Brahmins (Part Two of Four)
>> Brahmins in whom they saw a potential threat to their
>> supremacy in India. For instance, in 1879 the Collector
>> of Tanjore in a communication to Sir James, member of the
>> Famine Commission, stated that "there was no class
>> (except Brahmins) which was so hostile to the English."
>>
>>Brahmins were hostile to invaders, and to Indian residents, whenever
>>they saw a chance to usurp power over the population. Initially,
when
>>the British came to India before the sepoy rebellion, 70% of the
>>sepoys were from either Brahmin or Rajput caste -- therefore the
panic
>>due to the rumour of beef fat in the cartridges etc.
>>
>>The same Brahmins were said to have acquired special privileges for
>>themselves during the Mohammedan invasion of India, less or no
>>taxation etc. I would hardly consider the Brahmins to be staunch or
>>unusually energetic opponents of any invaders.
>
>
>India. In a recently translated Arabic book titled "Chacnamah", which
>chronicles the invasion of Debal, the first Indian country to fall to
>the Muslims,
Can you explain what is Invsion of Debal, when it happened,
Where it happened, Who were the parties involved etc??? Looks like you
know more( or write your own) history????
YOur write up sounds like junk unless supported by the answers to my
questions.
Regards,
babu ramabadran
Kabeer Punjabi
Meenaradchagan Vishnu wrote:
> [Text deleted]
> Actually, the brahmins actively supported the Islamic conquest of
> India. In a recently translated Arabic book titled "Chacnamah", which
> chronicles the invasion of Debal, the first Indian country to fall to
> Muslim forces could not breach the defense of Debal and it was only
> with the help of Brahmins who gave away key military secrets to the
> Arabs that the country fell to the Arab hands!
Gentleman,
You are probably reading the new discovery of history written by someone =
paid for by oil money. Here is the actual story from Arabic journals, =
after my signature.
Kabeer
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Qasem=92s debut in India has a 76 year long prelude. According to the =
Arabic chronicles Tarikh-i-Masumi, Mujamml ut-Tawarikh and Al Biladuri's =
Futuh-ul-Buldan, the first Arab raid against India was organized under =
Khalif Umar in A.D. 636. While himself staying away at a safe distances =
the leader, also called Umar, ordered his troops to land at Thana near =
Bombay (now Mumbai) and bring back whatever loot they could. But Indian =
defenses were so strong then that virtually not a single member of the =
raiding party could return alive.
A few years later, another party was sent to raid Broach. But there too =
Hakim, the commander, did not accompany his men and nearly all the =
raiders were killed. Carrying their depredations northward, in an effort =
to probe India's defences, another Arab gang attacked what is now known =
as Karachi. Like the first two, the third expedition also failed =
miserably and thc raiders were repulsed with heavy losses.
By this time, Usman had become the Khalif. He appointed Abdullah as thc =
governor of Iraq and ordered the latter to send only a scouting party to =
the Indian coast instead of risking any more disastrous raids. Since =
Hakim was associated with an earlier raid he was madc the leader of the =
spying party. Apparently, Hakim was arrested by vigilant Indian guards =
and severely punished.
When Ali succeeded to the Khalifate he reviewed the matter. Ali fitted =
out a strong raiding party in 659 A.D. under the leadership of Abdi. As =
usual, the Al Biladuri chronicle claims great success for this party but =
admits that Abdi was ultimately slain. 'he chronicle says "He (Abdi) was =
victorious, gathered the loot, made captives and distributed in one day a =
thousand heads (of slaughtered Indians). Save a few, he and those who =
were with him were slain in the land of Kikan (in Sind, near the Khorasan =
frontier) in 662 A.D."
Under the succeeding Khalif Muawiya, yet another party of raiders was =
sent out against India. Each time the size of the raiding party kept =
increasing enormously. Muhallab, the leader of the raiders, commanded =
such a huge force that he could deploy it over a vast rcgion. One party =
advanccd as far as Banna (probably Banllu) and Alahawar (not Lahore, as =
had been misunderstood by some) which lie between Multan and Kabul. But =
Muhallab and most of his men were slain by India's vigilant border force.
It was now Abdullah's turn to accept the Indian challenge. He was chosen =
by the Khalif and the Muslim Governor in Baghdad. Abdullah returned to =
the Indian frontier but was soon sent to perdition.
Now came Sinan. "He was such a good and saintly man," says Al Biladuri =
that he "was the first who made his troops to take an oath of divorce". =
But his dreams werc soon shattered.
Ziyad came next but was slain fighting against the brave Meds and Jats. =
Sinan returned tO retrieve his sullied 'honor' and hovered predatorily on =
India's borders for two years but dared not fight.
Al Manzar alias Abul Ashas succeeded him to the command at the frontiers. =
He attacked the towns of Nukan and Kikan, tried to set fire to them and =
carry away women, children and the loot. His depredations were spread =
over a wider territory but he was not allowed to return with the loot. He =
was done away with in an engagement at Kuzdar.
Ubaidullah who was now the Governor at Baghdad, sent Ibn Harri al Babali =
to take the revenge. His fate is unknown but it is presumed that he died. =
Hajjaj then became Governor at Baghdad. He first sent Said and then Mujja =
on a crusade against India. Mujja died at Makran within a year of his =
arrival in India.
Obaidulla and Budail sent to attack coastal city of Karachi but they were =
killed.
Just at this time Walid had succeeded to Khalifate. On Hajjaj's =
recommendation he appointed Mohammed Qasem to the command on the Sind =
border.
Mohammed Qasem proceeded with a huge force of infantry and cavalry to =
Shiraz. There he tarried until he was joined by another strong detachment =
under Abul Aswad Jhan.
The combined forces of Qasem and khan moved via Makran to the Indian =
border, which then comprised Afghanistan too, and stormed Kannazbur and =
later Armail. Here, another Mohammed - son Of Harun - joined the Arab =
force. But he was slain by the Indian armyand was buried at Kambali.
The rest is a history.
Supratik Das
On 11 Aug 1996,
In <DvvIH...@novice.uwaterloo.ca> mvi...@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
> (Meenaradchagan Vishnu) writes:
> >Actually, the brahmins actively supported the Islamic conquest of
> >India. In a recently translated Arabic book titled "Chacnamah", which
> >chronicles the invasion of Debal, the first Indian country to fall to
> >the Muslims,
First of all the name of the book is definitely Persian or Turkic not
Arabic. Secondly, given the enormous control that Brahmins had over a
caste based society I do not see what benefit would accrue to them by
supporting Muslim invaders. Also please give details as to from what
historical findings such claims were reached.
Supratik
Kunal Singh
In article <320E84...@ix.netcom.com> Kabeer Punjabi <Kab...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
Meenaradchagan Vishnu wrote:
> [Text deleted]
> Actually, the brahmins actively supported the Islamic conquest of
> India. In a recently translated Arabic book titled "Chacnamah", which
> chronicles the invasion of Debal, the first Indian country to fall to
> the Muslims, it is written that even after several attempts, the the
> Muslim forces could not breach the defense of Debal and it was only
> with the help of Brahmins who gave away key military secrets to the
> Arabs that the country fell to the Arab hands!
Gentleman,
You are probably reading the new discovery of history written by someone =
paid for by oil money. Here is the actual story from Arabic journals, =
after my signature.
I find this quite interesting. Why would someone with oil money write
something against Indian Brahmins? That doesn't make sense. And I
can't see how your historical accounts, other than proving perhaps
that Debal wasn't the FIRST Islamic incursion into India, disprove
Meenaradchagan's claims. Your historical accounts don't seem to
detail how the Islamic conquest finally succeeded, other than the
formation of a few alliances. In general, no conquest succeeds unless
you ally yourself with some people on the enemy's side. It would be
interesting to investigate if such people were largely Brahmin in
medieval India.
Could someone post a source for this text ?
N. Tiwari
Meenaradchagan Vishnu (mvi...@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: In article <filofpg23p.fsf@swap31-220>, Kunal Singh <nnyxsi@swap31-220> wrote:
: >In article <4tp9dn$m...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> bab...@ix.netcom.com(BABU RAMABADRAN) writes:
: >
: > Title : The plight of Brahmins (Part Two of Four)
: > supremacy in India. For instance, in 1879 the Collector
: > of Tanjore in a communication to Sir James, member of the
: > Famine Commission, stated that "there was no class
: > (except Brahmins) which was so hostile to the English."
: >
: >Brahmins were hostile to invaders, and to Indian residents, whenever
: >they saw a chance to usurp power over the population. Initially, when
: >the British came to India before the sepoy rebellion, 70% of the
: >sepoys were from either Brahmin or Rajput caste -- therefore the panic
: >due to the rumour of beef fat in the cartridges etc.
: >
: >The same Brahmins were said to have acquired special privileges for
: >themselves during the Mohammedan invasion of India, less or no
: >taxation etc. I would hardly consider the Brahmins to be staunch or
: >unusually energetic opponents of any invaders.
: Actually, the brahmins actively supported the Islamic conquest of
: India. In a recently translated Arabic book titled "Chacnamah", which
: chronicles the invasion of Debal, the first Indian country to fall to
: the Muslims, it is written that even after several attempts, the the
: Muslim forces could not breach the defense of Debal and it was only
: with the help of Brahmins who gave away key military secrets to the
: Arabs that the country fell to the Arab hands!
: I can't believe the crap that was written in the original article.
: Everyone knows that the caste system introduced and sanctioned by
: brahmanism broke India's spine and pushed it to its present dark age.
Meenan: Meenakshi Jain substantiates his contentions with
a lot of contemporary evidence. You do not. Whom should
I believe. There may be here and there records of Brahmins
(or for that sake anyone) who have supported invasions
by Muslims. There are certain Buddhist Puranas, that
celeberate the invasion of Muslims. Do we from there
jump to the conclusion that Buddhists advocated the
rise of Islamic power in India.
Your posts reveal a lot of anger. I do not the cause
for that. But that anger, howsoever justified may
it be, should be a source of pure hatred.
Brahmins, have contributed a lot to the growth of
India. A lot of Buddhist scholars happened to be
Brahmins. The legacy runs as late as to the days
of Rahul Sankrityayan, in the modern era.
I like some of them. I do not like others. But
a blind, pure hatred for an entire group of people
is something, that you, especially you as a well
read person, should not advocate.
--
Nachiketa Tiwari
Kabeer Punjabi
Kunal Singh wrote:
> [Text deleted}
>
> Could someone post a source for this text ?
Gentleman,
The source was provided in the first paragraph itself. Let me paste it
again.
" According to the Arabic chronicles Tarikh-i-Masumi, Mujamml ut-Tawarikh
and Al Biladuri's Futuh-ul-Buldan".
English translations were made, however, they may not be easily available
in US. You may have to go to Middle East countries and their libraries
should have them.
Kabeer
Kabeer
anand.da...@gmail.com
Besides your flimsy logic has been unable to answer a very simple question. Due to islamic terror when whole nations switched to islaam how come the Hindus were able to continue with their religion ?
What factor kept this religion alive and kicking ?
We can safely assume that everybody believes that Brahmins were the ones preserving hinduism. In that case Brahmins kept Hinduism alive against the onslaught of Islamic terror ? Won't it be so ??