Cantonese words for money

luis basto

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Apr 30, 1993, 1:30:15 AM4/30/93

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I am curious about the origin of words for Hong Kong money.
For example, here's some ways of saying (forgive my sound translations
since I don't know any pinyin):

yud hol (jee) - 10 cents
dao ling - 5 cents (I don't think this is in use now)
yud mun - one dollar
dai ngau - $500 (slang)
shui (water) (slang term for money)

Do these words (other than slangs) originate from Canton (Guangzhou)?
I suppose the dollars and cents nomenclature is invented by the British
but it seems to have little relationship with the Cantonese words.
"Mun" means dollar even though on dollar notes they're printed "yuen".
I think the "yuen" is also related to China's renminbi. I've never
heard anyone say "yud bark yuen" for $100, instead "yud bark mun".
Could "mun" be a contraction of money?

--
Luis Basto | Never try to catch two frogs
Internet: ba...@cactus.org | with one hand.
Usenet: ...cs.utexas.edu!mavrick!luis | -- Chinese Proverb

RAYMOND KWAN

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Apr 30, 1993, 12:09:56 PM4/30/93

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In article <14...@mavrick.UUCP>, Luis Basto asks about the origination of
Cantonese words we use today:

>yud hol (jee) - 10 cents
>dao ling - 5 cents (I don't think this is in use now)
>yud mun - one dollar
>dai ngau - $500 (slang)
>shui (water) (slang term for money)

I don't have clues to most of them, but the $500 bill is called 'dai ngau' (
big bull) because the first $500 bills are really large, much larger than
the other currencies in used at that time. Since it is brown in color, it is
natural to call it 'dai ngau'. When the $1000 bill came out the tradition
continues by calling it 'gum ngau' (gold bull), responding to its color, but
not so much its size. Therefore these are difinitely originating from Hong
Kong, or better say the banks and government of Hong Kong.

I'm not sure if terms like 'mun' are widely used in Guangzhou. But people in
remote villages in Guangdon Province do have problem understanding what we
say. Some older village people will even refer $4.50 as 4 'leung' 5 'chin',
refering to the old measuring units.

Just for fun:

Hung Sam Yue (Red Coated Fish) - $100 bill
Tseng Hai (Green Crab) - $10 bill
Yud Gai (Chicken) - same as Yud Mun (Mosquito)

One more thought about the term 'shui'. Water has long been used to describe
fortune, in Fung Shui and other uses. For example, we say 'Tsoi Yuen', or
'Spring of Fortune', as a metaphor from water. Therefore, I suspect it is not
a modern Hong Kong 'invention', but 'improvement'. I wonder how many outside
Hong Kong or Guangzhou will understand the following:

Darb Shui - Lots of money! :-)

-Raymond Kwan

Vincent Chan

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Apr 30, 1993, 1:48:11 PM4/30/93

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In article <930430160...@gumedlib.dml.georgetown.edu> rkw...@gumedlib.dml.georgetown.edu (RAYMOND KWAN) writes:
>
>Just for fun:
>
>Hung Sam Yue (Red Coated Fish) - $100 bill
>Tseng Hai (Green Crab) - $10 bill
>Yud Gai (Chicken) - same as Yud Mun (Mosquito)
>

More fun :
Yud Pay (Skin) for $1. I think 'Pay' (skin) is more frequently
used than 'Gai' (Chicken).

When I first came to the US, I always laughed when Singaporean used
'Kou' for dollar because 'Kou' has another meaning in HK-style
Cantonese. :)

TSANG Hok-Chung Douglas

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Apr 30, 1993, 6:04:31 PM4/30/93

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Also, ten dollars is call "cho" (grass, because it's green)
ten dollars == yud cho
fifity dollars == ng cho
--

doug.

Wong Leikie Eleanor

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Apr 30, 1993, 8:12:50 PM4/30/93

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In article <1rroor$4...@agate.berkeley.edu> vc...@haas.berkeley.edu (Vincent Cha
n) writes:
>In article <930430160...@gumedlib.dml.georgetown.edu> rkwan01@gumedlib.d

ml.georgetown.edu (RAYMOND KWAN) writes:
>>
>>Just for fun:
>>
>>Hung Sam Yue (Red Coated Fish) - $100 bill
>>Tseng Hai (Green Crab) - $10 bill
>>Yud Gai (Chicken) - same as Yud Mun (Mosquito)
>>
>

>More fun :
>Yud Pay (Skin) for $1. I think 'Pay' (skin) is more frequently
>used than 'Gai' (Chicken).
>

>When I first came to the US, I always laughed when Singaporean used
>'Kou' for dollar because 'Kou' has another meaning in HK-style
>Cantonese. :)
>

Not only this. In our (HK) Cantonese , $3.5 is said as "sam gor puun", but in
their Cantonese , it means $0.35 only.

And there are some more :
sam tiu (three stripes) means $30.
sam dai (three base/bottom) means $300
sam kong (??) means $3000 (this is because the word for "one
thousand" looks very alike to the
word "kong")
sam lup ( three pieces) means $30000

:) Have fun.

Alvin Law

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Apr 30, 1993, 1:37:49 PM4/30/93

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rkw...@gumedlib.dml.georgetown.edu (RAYMOND KWAN) writes:

>In article <14...@mavrick.UUCP>, Luis Basto asks about the origination of
>Cantonese words we use today:

>>yud hol (jee) - 10 cents
>>dao ling - 5 cents (I don't think this is in use now)
>>yud mun - one dollar
>>dai ngau - $500 (slang)
>>shui (water) (slang term for money)

Those were the good old days. The current translation rates is as
follows:

yud hol (jee) - $1,000
dao ling - $500
yud mun - $10,000
dai ngau - obsolete

--
Alvin

Yuk Lun Chan

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Apr 30, 1993, 12:54:44 PM4/30/93

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>soc.culture.hongkong / lu...@mavrick.UUCP (luis basto) / 6:30 am Apr 30, 1993 /

> yud hol (jee) - 10 cents
> dao ling - 5 cents (I don't think this is in use now)
> yud mun - one dollar
> dai ngau - $500 (slang)
> shui (water) (slang term for money)

>Do these words (other than slangs) originate from Canton (Guangzhou)?
>I suppose the dollars and cents nomenclature is invented by the British
>but it seems to have little relationship with the Cantonese words.
>"Mun" means dollar even though on dollar notes they're printed "yuen".
>I think the "yuen" is also related to China's renminbi. I've never
>heard anyone say "yud bark yuen" for $100, instead "yud bark mun".
>Could "mun" be a contraction of money?

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May 3, 1993, 12:36:36 AM5/3/93

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lu...@mavrick.UUCP (luis basto) writes:

>I am curious about the origin of words for Hong Kong money.
>For example, here's some ways of saying (forgive my sound translations
>since I don't know any pinyin):

> yud hol (jee) - 10 cents
> dao ling - 5 cents (I don't think this is in use now)
> yud mun - one dollar
> dai ngau - $500 (slang)
> shui (water) (slang term for money)

>Do these words (other than slangs) originate from Canton (Guangzhou)?

I think so. For "dao ling", it is related to that the 5 cents coins
only. It was the coins with the smallest value in HK several years ago.
There were 1 cent notes, but not coins. By now, the coins with the
smallest value is 10 cents coins now.

For those slangs you mentioned, I think "dai6 ngau4" (Big Bull/Cow)
is used as related with the HK $500 *notes* only. Maybe it is related to
the brown colour of the note. If I don't remember wrongly, there is a
cow drawn on the note many years ago. It is also worth to mention that
$500 note is the note with the highest value in HK 20 years ago. Notice
that 5 x HK $100 notes are not called "dai6 ngau4" any more.

For shui2 (water), it is because water means money (esp. true for those
day that most people work as farmers.) Also, HK is much lack of water,
and depend on the water supply from Pearl River now. In those old days
(about 30 years ago), there was a case that there was only 4 hour water
supply in every 4 days as there was not enough rainfall !!!

>I suppose the dollars and cents nomenclature is invented by the British
>but it seems to have little relationship with the Cantonese words.
>"Mun" means dollar even though on dollar notes they're printed "yuen".
>I think the "yuen" is also related to China's renminbi. I've never
>heard anyone say "yud bark yuen" for $100, instead "yud bark mun".

It is because there are 2 sets of terms for money using in Cantonese.
(Even in other categories !) One is for written Chinese, which is
universal among Chinese. (It is due to the unification of China by the
Emperor Chun Tsi Wong in about 220 B.C.) It is used in formal speech.
The second one is the oral Cantonese used in everyday speech, which is
much different from other Chinese dialect, such as Mandarin. The two sets
of terms for money in Cantonese are:

Unit Written Chinese Oral Cantonese
cent fun1 sin1
10-cent mou4 hou4 (your "hol")
dollar yuen4 men1 (your "mun")

Actually, there is the third/fourth sets of terms which is originally
used by Triads, but now get popular among other HK peoples. However, I
think I don't know the full set of these and maybe someone know all
these terms.

>Could "mun" be a contraction of money?

I think the term "men1" is originated from another old Chinese term for
the unit of money: men4. It is only a unit for money, as dollar, cannot
be mixed with money itself. In Cantonese, money is pronounced as chin2
(oral form) or chin4.

>--
>Luis Basto | Never try to catch two frogs
>Internet: ba...@cactus.org | with one hand.
>Usenet: ...cs.utexas.edu!mavrick!luis | -- Chinese Proverb

--
Benjamin TSIK Chung-Wai E-mail: cwt...@cuhk.hk
Computer Science Department, Chinese University of Hong Kong, HONG KONG

Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead. (Ph 3:13)

Benjamin Tsik

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May 3, 1993, 4:26:53 AM5/3/93

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rkw...@gumedlib.dml.georgetown.edu (RAYMOND KWAN) writes:

>One more thought about the term 'shui'. Water has long been used to describe
>fortune, in Fung Shui and other uses. For example, we say 'Tsoi Yuen', or
>'Spring of Fortune', as a metaphor from water. Therefore, I suspect it is not
> a modern Hong Kong 'invention', but 'improvement'. I wonder how many outside
>Hong Kong or Guangzhou will understand the following:
>
>Darb Shui - Lots of money! :-)

Also,

Tok Shui (Measuring Water) - Borrow money!
=>
Shun Tau Tsek (Ruler in front of the boat)
- Guy always borrows money (lack of money) !!
(from the Movie "The Tales of Autumn") :)

Benjamin Tsik

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May 4, 1993, 11:08:16 AM5/4/93

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y...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Yuk Lun Chan) writes:

>I think mun is related to yud mun chin in China before the republic. 5 cents
>was related to weight of silver (when you could buy a meal with 5 cents).

>Hol is another name of messure unit fan. One fan is 1/10 of a chin (mun).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WRONG !!! (1) RIGHT !!! ^^^^^^^^^^
WRONG !!! (2)

You've mixed the units of MONEY with the units of WEIGHT together.
For MONEY,
1 yuen/mun (dollar) = 10 kok/mol/hol
1 kok/mol/hol = 10 fan/sin (cent)
For WEIGHT,
1 liang (tael) = 10 chin
1 chin = 10 fan

WRONG !!! (1)
=============
Also, hol is another name of kok, 10 times of fan !!!

WRONG !!! (2)
=============
So, chin is NOT a unit of MONEY, but a unit of WEIGHT.
For the term "yud mun chin", "chin" just means money !
So, your linking "chin" with "mun" is WRONG !

Benjamin Tsik

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May 4, 1993, 11:11:05 AM5/4/93

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tsi...@cs.cuhk.hk (Benjamin Tsik) writes:

>The two sets of terms for money in Cantonese are:

> Unit Written Chinese Oral Cantonese
> cent fun1 sin1
> 10-cent mou4 hou4 (your "hol")

^^^^ (also kok8)

> dollar yuen4 men1 (your "mun")

--

Yuk Lun Chan

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May 6, 1993, 9:01:15 AM5/6/93

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>soc.culture.hongkong / tsi...@cs.cuhk.hk (Benjamin Tsik) / 4:08 pm May 4, 1993 /

>>Hol is another name of messure unit fan. One fan is 1/10 of a chin (mun).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> WRONG !!! (1) RIGHT !!! ^^^^^^^^^^
> WRONG !!! (2)

>You've mixed the units of MONEY with the units of WEIGHT together.

In fact, CHIN, was the most basic measurement and money unit in China.
The weight of one chin is defined as weight one chin (BTW, that chin
actually meant chin in Hon). Below chin, all measurements (length, weight)
are same. 1 chin = 10 fan = 100 lai. There was something called silver
hol, copper hol. Here, hol is used as a weight measure. (i.e. 1/10 of
the weight of one chin). The value of a copper hol was eventually equal
to 1/10 of one chin.
Yuen or dollar were introduced into China by the westerner. In fact, before
the republic (or a bit eariler), there were no cents (unit) in China money
system.

All kok, mol, fan etc were new things.

>For MONEY,
> 1 yuen/mun (dollar) = 10 kok/mol/hol
> 1 kok/mol/hol = 10 fan/sin (cent)
>For WEIGHT,
> 1 liang (tael) = 10 chin
> 1 chin = 10 fan

>WRONG !!! (1)
>=============
>Also, hol is another name of kok, 10 times of fan !!!

Yes in modorn time.

>WRONG !!! (2)
>=============
>So, chin is NOT a unit of MONEY, but a unit of WEIGHT.
>For the term "yud mun chin", "chin" just means money !
>So, your linking "chin" with "mun" is WRONG !

Yes in modorn time.
But what would you call those copper chin. (one chin or one gor chin).
Mun and chin were same.

The poster was asking for where these terms came from. Not today's term.

Yuk