Dominos effect...
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
every man is a sinner. every man makes mistakes. every man are
capable of evil, good, being righteous, being helpful. vp is no
exception. i'm no exception. you're no exception. with this in mind,
lets talk about the "complaints" about vp and his men. assuming that
vp is found guilty and sentenced to prison. what do you think the
effect would be? how do you think people will lable hmong? what do
you think people will see you as?
if vp is found guilty.
1. all hmong businesses will die....NO ONE WOULD WANT TO DO BUSINESS
WITH A COMPANY RAN BY A BUNCH OF TERRORISTS
2. anything that has to do with hmong, will be viewed as "terrorist
activity." lao family will not be able to find financial support from
our government. walking around as a hmong will be an embarrasement,
with people pointing at you because you are a hmong.
3. hmong students will be called "sons and daugthers" of terrorists
at school, and may be get beat up occasionally for being hmong.
students will not be able to get loans/grants because we are hmong.
4. no hmong will be elected to public office...because we are
"terrorists." who in the right mind would elect terrorists into
office?
5. application for jobs or interviews would be hard. most of the
time, empoyers ask what our ethnic nationality is. as soon as "hmong"
comes out...no one would hire anyone of us. being labled a
"terrorists" is worse than being labeled" as an "ex-con"
so everyone, get your head out of your aass and look at the big
picture...look at yourself as a hmong. have some pride in yoour
name. understand the effect it will have on you, your family, and
your kids...think of this...because of the civil war, no southerner
was elected president until jimmy carter. that's over a hundred years
of prejudice. the same thing would happen to hmong if we don't stick
together. this is the time to stand up and lead and fight for your
own civil rights, for your own good name...and for your worth of
living.
there will be a protest in downtown, sacramento today, at the federal
court at 2pm. because of the short prep time, the permit is only for
300 people. sherriffs will be there and if they see that there are
more than 300 people, they will disperse the crowd. anyone resisting
will be charged as a federal crime (per our conversation with chief
sherriff last night). so this is just for your infor...be careful if
you are there.
yaweh
TswvYim
you for educating them about this situation.
ntsuabxwm
Yaweh you are couple steps ahead, The USA Federal Court have charge 10
hmongs not all hmong ok. We as a whole hmong people want to speak a
one voice, we know that every on of us could make a mistake in a life
time, in a life time GVP is taken the defensive side the frist time, I
myself have nothing to do with his court but willing to help if
needed. All we need is a good lawyer for him, I don't care how much is
going to cost, we need to clear GVP out of the list, it was a set up
by the FBI. We will heard the Government's witness and our lawyer will
question them one after anopther including the FBI agent, let them
tell us how do they got these information from, this is completely set
us.
Born2beHmong
"If you don't understand yourself you don't understand anybody
else.....," by Nikki Giovanni
"The question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of
extremists we will be." by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
controversy." by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Born2beHmong
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
yes, they charged only 10 hmong men...temsis keep in mind that those
10 mong men are "hmong of inflence," especially vp. as of now, vp is
the only "father" of hmong in the usa. also, we have to understand
that the majority of people on earth are "ignorant." but we need
these ignorant people to live. because there are more ignorant people
on earth, our problems will come from these ignorant people. but,
lets just keep it simple so that people would understand more.
"leejtxiv quav yeeb, ces tub quav yeeb." people who knows the son
personally knows that the son is not quav yeeb. temsis the majority
of the people will say "txiv quav yeeb tes tub quav yeeb.." this is
just a fact of life. if vp is convicted, we will see (it is
inevitable) the downfall of hmong...
yaweh
ntsuabxwm
If VP to be quilty of the charged and go to jail for life time, the
Hmong are heard broken "zoo pab ntsaum nab tus ntawj tuag ces pab
ntsaum ntawv tawg ua sab ua sua taag" this is the end of the hmong
era. I still hope VP will not quilty of plot and over thrown LPSR but
may be of the illegal perchase of weapons, some how he may or maynot
signed the check or in such as contract, let see and wait til we saw
all the government evednaces.
zhen
nice predictions but those are too extreme. i don't think the barrel
of apples will be tossed out because of a few rotten ones---not to say
anyone is rotten.
i would welcome any employer to discriminate be due to my ethnicity;
it will be an easy million dollar litigation.
could we take one step back and you remind me why precisely we should
go demonstrate?
On Jun 11, 12:13 pm, tsujsuadl...@hotmail.com wrote:
kee...@yahoo.com
culture will treat us differently than before? We all know that we
are living in an individualistic society. Peb twb tuaj ua neej nyob
Miskas teb rau tiam 21 lawm, ib lub quav tsuag yuav tsis puas ib tsus
hno li yav tag los lawm. Tiam sis yuav yog peb Hmoob kam lees paub
qhov tseeb thiab qhov cuav hais tias dab tsi yog dab tsi thiab leej
twg yog leej twg. Tsis li ntawd yog Hmoob tseem pheej zais ub zais no
thiab ua tej yam niag fee duj das li yav dhau los ces kawg yuav raug
luag saib yus haiv neeg tsis khuab qhov muag. Tseev yog zoo phooj ywg
nrog luag yav tag los li ntag vim ziag no yog ziag no hos yav tag yog
yav tag lawm.
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
keep in mind, there are more naive people on earth than cov tom sov.
i have been to places where people look at me and turned the other way
because i'm asian. there are employers out there that are so close
minded that they would do the same thing. yes, i can sue them...but
for what? all they had to say was "actually he's not
qualified...that's why we didnt' take him..." i would not waste time
trying to "sue" such an employer anyway.
but, also keep in mind, right now lwm haiv twb tsi paub hmoob li.
with vp case, people will say "hmoob??? oh...those terrorists...???"
anything we do will be a "suspicion" to those who tsi paub peb. kuv
yeej pum tseeb tseeb le nuav.
now, as for protests...the point of it is not whether vp is guilty or
not (for me anyway). this whole thing is bigger than vp's innocence/
guilt or vp's name....IT HAS TO DO WITH THE HMONG NAME as a whole
LAWM... vp is probably the most well known mong worldwide at this
time, whether he will be guilty or not, people already labeling us as
"terrorists." hmong are on shaky grounds right now in terms of "lub
npe zoo..or lub npe hmoob."
the only way to clear hmong's name is to educate other people...but
guess what, it has been more than 30 years, and luag twb tsi paub
hmoob lub npe zoo li...how do you think people would think based on
these past few days? luag pom qhov phem xwb..luag tsi pom qhov zoo.
sooo....to educate other people is probably a good way to separate the
"bad" eggs from the "good" eggs....but it would take time....and time
is something that i dont' want to be wasted. 30 long years...and we
have only 1 senator...1 rep to assembly..about 2-3 city coucil
members...how long would we have to "fix" hmong's name if vp is
convicted? another 30 years? ntev heev lawm.
sometimes....we have to sacrifice something for the good of the
whole...and in this case, we must try everything we can to get vp out
of prison (even if he is guilty), so that the name of hmong can
flourish beautifully, instead of ups and downs...
yaweh
Moobsib
You must be specific to those negative complaints relating to VP's
activities or leadership so that we understand what to say. Everyone
must understand that there this is a public forum. For that reason,
there are limit as to what is and is not appropriate to say.
My personal concern is that if we are so loyal to VP's cause and
blindly defend him with all avenues we can think of our actions may
lead us (our image) into the drain instead of doing us and/or vp any
good. It is so critical for each and everyone of us to understand VP's
social and political affairs which finally led to his arrest. With
that in mind we must conduct ourselves in a manner that fit the US and
the world's norms and principles in helping VP.
Base on my observation here and within the community I see the
contrary. This worries me.
Regards,
MS
Moobsib
Thanks and I agree.
MS
Moobsib
He stated that it seems every Hmong traveling abroad is being search
very well by the authorities. this might raise your eyebrown.
MS
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
qhov tseeb....from what i understand, tes vp is charged with trying to
overthrow the laotian government, of which the usa is in peace with,
nothing else..nothing less..
but...his crime, i think, is that he tried to buy weapons illegally.
nothing more..nothing less...
temsis, peb hmoob tsi yog tibneeg ruam...there must be ways (i'm not
knowledgable enough to know what they are) to twist and turn....to
make vp innocent (regardless whether he is guilty or not). we all
know that there are many many people in history, who committed crimes
and got away with it due to support from "loyal' friends. again, i'm
not interested in vp's guilt or innocence, but i am interested in
helping myself. if vp is guilty, then it would affect me in ways that
i cna't even imagine.
some say that it is a setup. some say that it is vp's plan to save
the hmong in thailand. some say that its a bigger conspiracy than we
know. some say that vp is lying bastard who doesn't deserve support.
whatever people's opinions are...he is afterall, our only well known
leader. you should understand that in any society, if the leader is
dismantled, then all the followers will be in the same situation
directly or indirectly. dont' get me wrong, i'm not interested in vp,
but i am interested in helping myself. if all of us are doing the
same thing, tes yeej zoo le kws peb help vp hab.
in other terms...lets loook at a typical hmong funeral. kuv tsi txawj
qeej, kuv tsi txawj dlaabtsi...los yog tas kuv moog paab pauv zug,
paab pauj luas...tes zoo le kuv "support" xyom cuab lawm hab. in vp's
case, peb txawm tsi paab nws directly los, peb yuav tsum "quaj qw"
hab...tes zoo le peb paab nws lawm hab.
i can't be anymore specific on vp, due to the fact that i don't know
much about him. but i do know that whatever the outcome is, it will
affect me in some ways...it may be good, it may be bad. but if vp is
found guilty, then it will definitely be "bad" for me...and you.
yaweh
Thorn...@yahoo.com
so you think if vp not convict then hmong will not label terrorist?
you think vp breaking the law to save hmong from labeling as
terrorist? can you tell who make other people call hmong terrorist,
the Hmong people or vp? when talk far is too far, let make close to
you so you can see, for example vp put your uncle BSH on the blade of
sword you think vp doing it to save him? tsujsua, I think regardless
of vp go free or life time jail he and his people already paint hmong
as terrorist, so your arguement is pointless to save vp so hmong not
call terrorist, the damage had been done wiht unrepairable so why
worry about saving hmong face. breaking the law is no accident, so
stop saying vp is a human being and he too make mistake, he did it on
purpose not make "mistake".
Ntxhiavnyuj
Yes, we are worried about VP's case but don't worry too much. If VP is
to be found quilty for the violation of the Neutrality Act, then the
US Government shall be the first to be found quilty. I have a doubt
that the charge will be dropped. Think about it, who violated the
Neutrality Act in the first place? The US Government, the CIA or VP?
The Neutrality Act was ratified by the US Government in 1962 but it
kept providing military equipments, military personnels and financial
supports into Laos up until 1975.
VP still needs help and we, the Hmong, will do our very best to get VP
and his associates out of jail as soon as possible.
zhen
hmong times and hmong today (and other hmong media groups) should go
in and take a statement from the General. i want to analyze the
General's declarations for myself before i decide. we should first
establish if the General is in it for himself, or for our people. If
it is for the former, then this problem is a personal problem for him
and we need not be involved. If his 'cause' is for the latter, then
this problem is as you suggested one projected upon our people.
Ironically, I think freedom for the General means incarceration and
suffering for Hmong, and incarceration and suffering for the General
means freedom for the Hmong.
are you sure you have a unified vision to demonstrate? remember, ZKY,
and the Long March for Freedom? i remember a demonstration that was
riddled with colliding purposes.
thanks for clarifying.
kee...@yahoo.com
I agree with you that we have to educate the mainstream culture as
well as the whole world about our Hmong people no matter how good,
bad, or ugle we are. I also suport your statement that we should
educate other people that we have some "good" and some "bad" eggs.
But I disagree with you that "we must try everything we can to get vp
out of prison (even if he is guilty), so that the name of hmong can
flourish beautifully." I think we can try everything we can to fight
to get VP out of jail until the court rules its decision on his case.
But I don't think it is a wise idea for us to waste a lot of our
energies and resources on a sensitive case such VP's.
Again, whether VP is found guilty or not, the name of "Hmong" will
stay forever unless the Hmong race goes distinct like the dinosaurs.
But with the current sprouting speed of Hmong seeds (offsprings), I
don't think the Hmong are near the list of Endangered Species.
Moobsib
Kuv to taub koj cov lug zoo hab kuv los yeej xaav tau le thooj/lawv le
koj has hab. Tsi taag le hov xwb neeg feem coob yeej xaav moog le
ntawd. I do not oppose any ralley in paying for his safety and
release. In fact I will not hesitate to take part in such gathering to
show that I care for him and Hmong. However it is extremely critical
for us, Hmong, to understand the effects of vp's actions and policies
from the last 30 some years whic finally led to his arrest. Whether or
not we, Hmong, will be able to live peacefully with the rest of the
world and earn their respect is really up to us to make it happen. Yog
peb taag zug coj tug cwjpwm hab xeebceem nyam txuj kev dlaag le peb
pum lug nua mas kuv txhawj tas sov peb lub koobmeej puas yuav sawv
nrug luas sis txig taug.
Ua tsaug...
MS
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
on the contrary, let me speak in your own language so that you would
understand.
we all know that god kills..millions..and millioins...and god's people
killed millions and millioins...and still at it today.
becuase people stand together...because those followers of god stand
together...the bible god is still very sacred.
koj to taub lawm lov?
yaweh
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
kvu paub tas yog leejtwg "tom sov" tes...tug nuav yeej paub or will be
willing to help vp. peb ua neeg nyob, yog yus tas "tseem ceeb" nuav
tes "tseem ceeb" xwb. yog yus tas "its not important for me" , then
it is not. keep in mind that vp is the only "hmong father" right
now. even if yus nam yus txiv being corrupted...at the end, yus yeej
defend yus nam yus txiv until nothing can be done anymore.
if you were to "analyze" first to see if its "worthy" of being helped
first...then my friend, yog peb xaav le nuav tes, we are no better
than vp. i did say we have to "look" beyond vp as a whole...whether
he did it for himself or his people, i dont' thnk this is the issue on
what i'm talking about.
yaweh
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
of course the name hmong will exist forever regardless of what the
outcome is. but i'm talking about the name "hmong" being associated
with "terrorists"....
yaweh
zhen
thanks. i really appreciate your response. i am beginning to
understand the situation a little better now.
i only hope others will come to stand where you are.
i can't make it to sac, but i plan on joining the demonstrations in
fresno. i will make it a point to come to sac in the future.
Hmong-Lao
You too have negative feeling toward him, do you?. You said that if
GVP is found guilty, then we all will be looked down by others. Which
meant he dragged all of us down along with his illegal activities. But
don't worry; you are not alone.
Anyway, you have predicted too far. I don't think we will be looked
down by the majority people simply because some of us make mistakes or
commit crimes. And also, the plan to overthrow an oppressive
government will be viewed differently than the real terrorism plan.
Things will get better when we heard from all parties.
HL
Tony
kuas yug lub pob tws txhob mob. Ua le caag txuj kev xaav nuav yuav
cov ua luaj le?
Zhen, qhov koj has tas yuav tsum paub qhov tseeb saib vp ua rua nwg
tug kheej lov los yog nwg ua rau moob. Koj has yog kawg lawm. Ua
ntej yuav paub lub ntsi yuav tau taug rov rua tom hauv paug.
Txis txhob kub sab. Txawm yog vp los yog tej laug, tej neev tua tsi
ncaaj lawm los peb tseem naj nub txua peb raab. Yuav tau ca sab rua
yug raab neeb hab es tua txhaj tau nqaj noj.
Peb twb yog cov tuaj kawm ntawv teb chaws nuav es tseem ntshai qhov
nyuas ntawd hab lov. Muaj kaum tug employer tsi nyam hmong los yeej
yuav muaj ib tug nyam mong hab nav.
Koj teg dlej num naj nub nwg nuav yog koj has koj yog vp cov tuab neeg
es puab txhaj le muab num rua koj ua lov? Twb yog koj txuj kev kawm
coj koj moog nrhav tau num hab luas sav.
vp ua tau yaam zoo rua hmong, hmong yeej yuav tau yaam zoo ntawd. vp
ua tau yaam phem rua hmong los yuav tau txais nkaus coj moog nag kag
rua huv lub sab es tsum kag txuj nyuas kev ua lawv kua ntawd. peb
yeej paub has tas peb moob tug cwj pwm yeej zoo le ntawd sav, ua le
caag peb cov hluas yuav tsi kawm le?
Tej nuav ces zoo le tej laug has, the curse that lasted three and four
generation. Ua ib hmoob lawm ces ib tug ua txhum ces yeej raug moog
lawm peb plaub tam maam le taag.
Yo le, nub nua, peb yuav taug tsim tsaam peb tug kheej sawv lub txheem
lub npe hmong, mong. Txheem taag peb maam tsaa peb tug kheej sawv hab
maam qha cov tom qaab kuas tseg kag txuj nyuas kev "ruam tua tsov"
nuav es peb txhaj le tsi naj nub yuav has qhov nyuas thaiv koj lub
nyuas qhov quav" ntawd xwb nav.
koj mas ua le caag yuav hloov sai npaum kod?
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
quav....qhov tseeb tag, this is not the case. peb ua neej nyob, it is
everyone's responsibility to help those who are 'down.' this is the
way of life, the way of humanity. but, in this case, this is not the
case also. yog mej tomsov tes mej yuav paub tas vp important npaum li
caag rua hmoob. as i said, right now, there is no one as important as
vp to the hmong. they don't know me..they don't know you. but most
people do know who vp is...he is, so far in our lifetime, the carrier
of the hmong name. if you don't understand this, then you will never
understand what i'm talking about. bedcuase he is the carrier of the
hmong name, what he does and whether he is found guilty or
not.....will affect hmong as a whole either directly or indirectly.
mej sim saib moog sebb kuv has puas yog.
yawen
lis...@lycos.com
Yaweh,
Long ago I thought you said there is no God or Heaven. If so why
there is sins and unsins. All sins came from God's condemantion then
God told man to make the law of the land in combination with the Law
of God.
Thou shalt not lie
Thou shalt not kill
Love thy enemies, do good to them, pray for them.
Brother if you worry about the discrimination then step down your
protest and look for other better solution or you (yourself) will be a
terrorist support. People don't know when they saw Hmong should be
humble but instead rise and be aggressive toward something that we
haven't heard. Please go back to read the ATF Report before you act
so aggressively. One suggestion if Hmong want to get the good name
out then stop protest and start to look for the very best attorney.
Please go to talk with Johnny Cokerean Jr or Michael Yamaki in LA.
Watch for your fundraising because that can be another charge & never
go run mouth that you guys got so much money or your case will never
settle until all attorneys zero out your funds.
Good luck & May God bless those wants to do good.
Nom
lis...@lycos.com
Yaweh,
God doesn't kill but when man listen not God let them kill
themselves. Do you think VP listen to God, I don't think so. VP
failed his mission because he did not search for God since he came to
this country. I can proof to you whether or not you agree.
Nom
Thorn...@yahoo.com
Tsujsua,
so you said vp following God's foot step that's why vp plan to go plot
a murder of lpd? what is your point about God relating to vp arrest.
Born2beHmong
cov neeg tsi tau paub ces lam cam dawb dawb xwb mas, koj nrog tej
neeg no sib cam ces tsi muaj chaw xaus os. kuv nkagsiab koj cov lus
thiab ua tsaug rau koj cov lus hais. luag ntse tshaj yus lawm puas
tsawg tauj, tej no, yog tej neeg tsi paubtab thiab tsi paub dabtsi es
lam hais lus xwb. tsi tau pom dej dag yeej tsi paub os nawb, thaum
koj mus pom tag lawm mas koj thiaj li paub zoo og.
ntshe yus hos yog cov neeg ua follower xwb es luag hais li cas los
"yes sir" tag li xwb, es yus yeej tsi muaj siab muaj ntsw li lawm no
mas yog os. tabsi Yaweh, koj yuav ua li cas hais tau rau cov neeg tsi
muaj siab muaj ntsw kom xav li koj nab, nyuab tiag tiag os Yaweh aws,
yog cov tseem cam cam li no mas nws tsi tau paub txog ib qhov dabtsi
kiag li mas nawb...nco ntsoov hais tias luag lam luag rau koj lub ntse
muag ib npliag ntawd xwb--koj twb tsi zoo li tus Tsiaj rau hauvlub
luag siab thiab txoj kev xav. tsua yog noj tsi tau hais tsi tau lawm,
tsi ua lawv tsi muaj es lam ua kom tag xwb. tej neeg ruamqauj mas
tseem qhua qab qhua tsaus kawg kiag li og.
tseev koj hais kom mus txog heaven los cov neeg zoo lino yeej tsi
nkagsiab koj thiab tsi paub tsi pom koj txoj kev xav li og...luag kiag
3 suab es txhob cam lawm os..li Noogdlej hais xwb mas nawb. tus neeg
ua nws tsi xav tostaub koj ces yuav hais ciaj hais tuag los yeej tsi
tostaub koj li no os.
smile kiag 3 suab tso...
Born2beHmong
csy...@hotmail.com
Rumors have already been spread that there will be no Hmong July 4th
event happening this summer in St. Paul due to VP's arrest. I doubt
it is true but anyone cares to comment?
csy
cwjmem
Cas yuav ntxhai tuag ua luaj li mas! Yog ntshai baum li ko ces peb
Hmoob tuag tag nyob rau tuam tshoj lawm os....I thought you guys are
educated. Stop scaring people with your none sense comment!
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
i thank you for words.....a long time ago, i said there is no
god...yes...i did say that. but you forgot the part where i said "as
a fact, there is no god..." but " as a belief, there is a creator.."
as for supporting vp. note taht nowhere did i say i'm helping him
because he is wrong..or rihgt..or innocent. as i said to all of
you...i said "go beyond vp...go beyond your feelings of vp...go beyond
your view of hmong politics..etc".....AND THINK OF THIS ISSUE AS A
TIME TO HELP HMONG'S NAME.
yog koj tsi nkag siab kuv hais ces...tu siab tias koj yuav tsi pom kuv
lub zemmuag
yaweh
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
if you want to talk about the bible religion, we can continue that
anytime...but in another post...
just let me know when...
yaweh
tsujsu...@hotmail.com
yug txuj sa is the most precious gift of all...anyone who said "kuv
tsi ntshai tuag" are liars. so what exactly are you implying?
yaweh