Txiabneeb sau "Ntawv Hmoob Thoob Ntuj"
Tony
FYI, ziag no peb Hmoob tus niam ntawv Romanized Popular Alphabet (RPA)
los yog tus ntawv Las Tees tau muab daws npe hus dua tshiab txij thaum
1997 los mus hu tias "Ntawv Hmoob Thoob Ntuj" lawm...
Ua tsaug rau sawv daws li tej laj lim tswv yim sib cog kawm qhia peb
txhua leej txhuas tus rau hauv SCH no tau 13 xyoo no lawm...
Kuv kawm tau ntau yam lawm tiam sis peb (3) yam kuv nco thiab kawm
thiab tau siv los mus txij li thaum kuv los txuam tau rau SCH yog li
nram no:
1. Kuv li pluaj siab txais nej cov lus txhawb siab (critiques)
2. Npe ntawm cov ntiv tes
3. Txheej txheem ntawm kev pe tsiab
txiabneeb
Tony xaavtxhawb ntxiv rua Txiabneeb sawblug saib peb puas yuav hlaatau
ib kaujruam rua tom hauvntej rua peb cov lug huv vaajtsev moogua lug
lajfai.
Kuv siv txiabneeb sawblug hab muab nwg sau txuas saib lub ntsablug
puasmeej thaus peb nyeemntawv le thaus peb haslug. Mej nyeem taag ho
txhaablug ntxiv saib mej xaav lecaag:
***** FYI, ziag no peb Hmoob tus niamntawv Romanized Popular Alphabet
(RPA) losyog tus ntawv LasTees taumuab dawsnpe husdua tshiab txij
thaum 1997 losmus hu tias "Ntawv Hmoob Thoob Ntuj" lawm...
Uatsaug rau sawvdaws li tej lajlim tswvyim sibcog kawm qhia peb
txhualeej txhuastus rau hauv SCH no tau 13 xyoo no lawm...
Kuv kawmtau ntau yam lawm tiamsis peb (3) yam kuv nco thiab kawm thiab
tausiv losmus txij li thaum kuv los txuamtau rau SCH yogli nramno:
1. Kuv li pluajsiab txais nej cov lus txhawbsiab (critiques)
2. Npe ntawm cov ntivtes
3. Txheejtxheem ntawm kev petsiab ******
Puas tsimnyog peb nce ib theem ntxiv kuas haslug losyog nyeemntawv
kuas nraug tuablub ntsablug.
Tshaj...@gmail.com
I do not understand what you talk about?
Tony
> I do not understand what you talk about?- Hide quoted text -
I tried to rewrite what txiabneeb wrote compound two words to bring a
single meaning to see if our spoken and written language can be
improved.
try again to see if you could draw the same meanings or different.
Moobsib
laaj rua cov nyeem heev. Tawm sis yog lu lug twg yog noun ces sau sis
txuas los tau. Piv txwm le tas "tebchaws, nplajteb, havtxwv, etc.".
dlua le ntawd yog mej muab sau sis txuas ces qee leej nyeem tsi tawm
lawm.
MS
Tzianeng Vang
Koj yog ib tug kws tsim ntawv Hmoob rau peb nyeem thiab sau lawm koj
yuav tau pab muab xav. Yog yuav "compound" no tus "standard" yuav yog
li cas? Piv txwv, tsim nyog peb yuav compound verse, noun thiab
adjective xwb los yuav ua cas? Koj sim muab saib seb.
Pab npoj yaig xyoo tag los no es kuv tau muab koj li npe zwj tso npe
rau tau txiav txim muab sim nrog rau cov nyob hauv MN no xwb. Yog no
ziag no peb tab tom los yuav luag txog lub ntsiab txiav txim txog
"compounding" lus/ntawv Hmoob.
Mam tos koj li lus teb...
FYI: lub npe daws tshiab no tsis yog kuv li; nws yog Txiv Plig Nyiaj
Pov Yaj (Father Yves Bertrais), Dr. William Smalley, Dr. Lindwood
Barney thiab cov kws Hmoob tsim tus ntawv RPA Las Tees ntawv muab
daws; nyob rau nram Milwaukee, WI thaum lub 7 Hli Ntuj, xyoo 1997 uas
Hmoob sib sau tuaj mus noj ib pluag mov ua sawv daws tsaug uas tau
tsim tus ntawv no rau peb siv. Lawv lub zeem muag ces yog qhov lawv
pom tias tus ntawv Hmoob RPA no yuav yog tus lawv tsim thiab yuav raug
rau Hmoob siv Thoob Ntuj; yog li thaum 1997 ntawd lawv pom lawm tias
Hmoob muab nthuav siv Thoob Ntuj lawm lawv thiaj muab daws npe hu dua
li...
-Txiabneeb
Tony
> Koj yog ib tug kws tsim ntawv Hmoob rau peb nyeem thiab sau lawm koj yuav tau pab muab xav. Yog yuav "compound" no tus "standard" yuav yog li cas? Piv txwv, tsim nyog peb yuav compound verse, noun thiab adjective xwb los yuav ua cas? Koj sim muab saib seb.
Le kuv xaav hab pum rua lub caij nuav, peb yuav tau sau lugtxuas rua
cov verb, noun, hab adjective letejntawd mas peb moob cov lug txhale
meejpem, meejsau, hab meejnyeem kuas yog tuablub ntsablug xwb.
Koj nyeem sawblug Meskas hab sawblug Moob nraag qaab nuav saib puas
nplaglug hab ntxim yuavsiv txuaslug "communicate" yoojyim. Qhov yuav
muab peb cov lug Moob ua kuas tau ibqhov "standard" yuav yog moog le
ntawd tsisub es peb nyeem ntawv los txhajle muaj kuab hab muaj tsus
nreg, ncua, su, hab xaus letejntawd.
English:
"Joe's earliest reminiscence of life was when he knew how to walk at
their Pachong farm, Laos. He went walking in search for his parents.
He encountered a rain shower on the way and was soaked. In one
afternoon Joe was sleeping and his parents thought it would be a while
before he awakes. They left to the cornfield to get some corn feed
for the chickens and the pigs."
Mong:
"Txij le Ntsauj xeevxwm nculug yog thaus nwg nyavnyuas moog taugkev
nyob rua nraag teb Phajcoos, tebchaws Lostsuas. Nwg taugkev moognrhav
nwg nam hab nwg txiv. Ntsauj moogntsib ib kob naagtshauv uarua nwg
ntubtaag. Muaj ib taavsu Ntsauj pw tsaugzug lawm, nwg nam hab nwg
txiv txawm xaavtas nyaj Ntsauj yuavpw tsaugzug ntev. Obtug txawm moog
rua nraag dlaim teb pobkws moog aub pobkws lugua qhauv pub qab hab pub
npua lawm."
Nyeem ob sawblug saib koj puas txugsav losyog sab sib quaslag yaam
lomzem tsawv.
Lub homphaj yog sau, nyeem, kuas nplaglug zoo es peb tsitxhob
ntsubntsub heev thaus meb nyeem peb tej ntawv Moob.
kwv...@aol.com
1. words with same pronounciation, but different meaning.
exampe:
father = txiv
fruit = txiv
ob lo lus no kuv xav hais tias yuav tau muab kho sau kom sib txawv.
why? vim rau qhov yog kuv nug koj li no lawm no ces koj yeej tsis
paub xyov kuv hais dab tsi lawm. question: "koj sim pab txhais saib
txiv yog dab tsi?" koj puas paub hais tias kuv nug koj txog lub txiv
xyoob txiv ntoo los yog kuv nug txog leej txiv tib neeg mas.
Another example:
log = nqaj
meat = nqaj
yog kuv nug koj hais tias, "koj sim txhais saib nqaj yog dab tsi?"
koj yeej tsis paub tias yog kuv nug txog tus nqaj tse (log) los yog
nqaj (meat).
2. punctuation.
example:
english: when i was young, i was very beautiful.
hmong: thaum kuv hluas kuv zoo nkauj heev (incorrect punctuation).
hmong: thaum kuv hluas, kuv zoo nkauj heev (correct punctuation).
english: i am a person who is short, fat, and lazy.
hmong: kuv yog ib tug neeg qig taub thiab rog thiab tub nkeeg
(incorrect punctuation).
hmong: kuv yog ib tug neeg qig taub, rog, thiab tub nkeeg (correct
punctuation).
Tzianeng Vang
Thaum tsim tau ib pab los txhim kho lawm ces yeej yuav tham txog:
compound, sentence & paragraph structure, punctuation, grammars,
etc...li no thiaj yuav pib tau txoj kev yuav nrhiav tswv yim los mus
standardized Hmong language rau sawv daws siv kom thiaj txais tau
"credits" rau kev kawm ntawv qib siab, mus xeem rau kws xib fwb daim
ntawv tso cai (licensure), certification, etc...
TswvYim
los lus nyiajtxiag los yuav taus pauv thiab. vim tamsim no peb cov hmoob
tabtom siv nyiajtxiag.
nyiajtxiag = nyiajntawv
= nyiajnpib and etc.
los lus uas los pauv thiab.
uas = uaspaum
= uaskasmoo and etc.
--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutculture.com/group/soc.culture.hmong/
More information at http://www.talkaboutculture.com/faq.html
Born2beHmong
thaum kuv nyeem cov lus uas koj muab kho tag ntawd, nws zoo nyeem
tshaj thiab nkagsiab tshaj--nws zoo tau rawsnraim li yog yus ib tug
Mhoob hais lus (as a person speaks in reality) nyob rau saum nruabyaj
no ntag. kuv zoo siab tias, Mhoob yuav sib cog kho Mhoob tej lus no,
kom mus ib kaujruam zujzus ntxiv nyob rau lubneej tomntej no.
kuv nrog txhawb koj soblug ua koj muab kho sau duas no....ua tsaug
Kwv,
log= nqaj
meat=nqaij
father=txiv
fruit....txiv...is acting as an adjective losyog compound word....txiv
mab, txiv ntoo...loslus txiv (alone) nos, nws yeejyog siv rau "father"
xwb...tabsi yog thaum loslus txiv no, nws hos muab siv los nrog lwm
loslus, thiaj li tsi yog txiv lawm xwb. yog muab ua twb zoo xav tiag--
yuav tau muab sau ua compound word li nram no: txivapple, txivtsawb,
txivkubnyug, txivnkaujtaw, txivmojnuav--txivphablas, txivnplais,
txivpuvluj...los yog txiv apple, txiv tsawb....!
Born2beMhong
Hmong-Lao
Kev sau ua compound words tsis yog yuav lam tau lam sau; peb yuav tau
xyuas kom meej meej thiab peb yuav tsum to taub lub ntsiab ntawm tej
lo lus tso, yog tsim nyog sib txis mam muab sib txis. Raws li kuv
ntsuam xyuas koj qhov sample no mas nws muaj ntau lo kuj siv nyog
lawm, tiamsis muaj ntau lo muab sib txis yuamkev lawm. Muaj tej lo,
kuv los yeej tseem tsis tau paub txiav txim siab li thaib. Koj cov
compoumd words muaj li nram no:
niamntawv tsis tau txiavtxim siab
losyog siv tau
taumuab yuamkev (tau is an auxiliary verb to modify the
verb muab so it become past tense)
dawsnpe yuamkev (daws is a verb, npe is a noun)
hudua tsis tau txiav txim siab
losmus yuamkev (both are verbs, short for muab los ces mam
rov muab mus)
Uatsaug yuamkev (ua is verb, tsaug is a noun, you may say
ua koj tsaug)
sawvdaws siv tau
lajlim siv tau
tswvyim siv tau
sibcog yuamkev (sib is an adverb, cog devived from coj
which is a verb)
txhualeej yuamkev (txhua is an adjective, leej is a noun)
txhuastus yuamkev (txhua is an adjective, tus is a noun)
kawmtau yuamkev (kawm is a verb, tau is an adverb to modify
kawm)
tausiv yuamkev (tau is an auxiliary verb to modify the
verb siv so it become past tense)
txuamtau yuamkev (kawm is a verb, tau is an adverb to modify
kawm)
yogli siv tau
nramno: yuamkev (nram is an adverb describing the adverb
nov)
pluajsiab yuamkev (pluaj is an adjective, siab is a noun,
you may also say nplooj siab, lub siab)
txhawbsiab yuamkev (txhawb is verb, siab is a noun)
Txheejtxheem siv tau
petsiab yuamkev (pe is verb, tsiab is a noun)
tsimnyog siv tau
haslug yuamkev (has is verb, lug is a noun, say the word)
nyeemntawv yuamkev (nyeem is verb, ntawd is a noun)
kuasraug yuamkev (kuas and raug are both adverbs to describe
hais and nyeem)
tuablub yuamkev (tuab is an adjective modifying other
adjective lub)
ntsablug siv tau
Kuv lam hais li kuv xav thiab paub xwb, tsis yog qhov twg los ho sib
qhia.
HL
Born2beHmong
ua tsaug HL....vim li no, kuv thiaj li xav kom Tziabneeb lawv nrhiav
seb puas muaj ib lub koomhaum los nrhiav cov neeg zoo li koj, coob
tus, coj los zaum ua ke, los tsim kho peb Mhoob cov lus, kom muaj
structure. es yog nrhiav tau nej lawm, peb li sau peb tej me Taxes,
xa tuaj pab txhawb cov researchers no kom peb Mhoob vammeej no nawb.
thanks,
Born
Moobsib
Nqaaj hab nqaj tub sis txawv neb (Nqaj thiab nqaij), see?
Txiv= fruit
Txwv = father or txiwv= father
ms
Moobsib
Thanks,
ms
kwv...@aol.com
moob leeg hu nqaij hu ua nqaj ho tus nqaj tse los lawv kuj hu ua nqaj
no thiab ov.
yawg sib-- yog muab txiv=father pauv mus ua "txwv" no ces ho conflict
rau peb hmoob dawb lo lu "txwv" no lawm thiab. "Txwv" txhais hais
tias txwv=prohibit tsis pub yuav niam yau.
my suggestion:
leave "txiv = father" the way is it. but change "txiv=fruit" to
"txivqaum"
Born2beHmong
>
> - Show quoted text -
tsi nco zoo lawm HL...
sawvdaws yuav tau sibtham kom haum, vim hais tias nqee lolus yeej yog
li koj hais tiag--tabsi, ntshe yuav muaj exception thiab vim peb cov
lus tsawgheev. yog koj yuav muab cai li verb, adverb, thiab adjective
li lus American mas ntshe yuav tsi sibhaum peb li lus Mhoob nawb. yog
li, txawm tau hais li koj hais thiab kuv hos hais no lawm lod, peb
yuav tau tig rov los taug thiab cob zoo zoo tag seb los lus twg yog
los twg tiag tiag. peb thiaj li yuav noj nyog mus tau. yog yus yuav
muab ib los txhais ib los li lus american siv xwb mas--i don't think
that we will go anywhere, other than just leave alone as it
is..nomoli..... ib los, ib los--seperate tag li li peb niaj nhub sau
los tau 50 tawm xyoo no xwb...yog li koj reason koj li support tuaj
ntxiv seb?
Born2beMhong
kwv...@aol.com
punctuation, sentense structure, verb, noun, adjective, etc.. kom coj
los siv tau universally mas kuv xav hais tias yuav nyuaj heev vim ib
lub teb chaws lawv siv sau ntawv lawm ib yam. qhov kuv xav hais tias
nej yuav kho tau coj los siv tau universally mas tsuas yog 2 yam nkaus
xwb.
yam 1. compound words.
example. "sawv daws" yuav tsum muab sau ua "sawvdaws". "kwv tij"
muab sau ua "kwvtij" etc..
yam 2. kho cov words that have same prounociation, but different
meaning.
example again. txiv=father kho mus ua "txivqaum" In fact,
"txivqaum" is the general and proper term for fruit. "Nyiajtxiag" kho
mus ua "Nyiajtxiaj". the proper term should be "txiaj" not "txiag."
Hmong-Lao
Ua tsaug uas neb nyiam kuv lub tswv yim. Tej kuv tau hais los ntawv,
tej zaum yeej muaj tej lo hais yuam kev lawm los kuj muaj. Vim twb
kawm Lao/English grammar los tau ze 20 tawm lub xyoo no lawm. Vim li
ntawd peb thaij tuaj sib cog pauv tswv yim hauv no.
Cov phoojywg txhua tus,
Hmoob cov lus no yeej muaj tej lo uas nws yog verb, yog adjective, yog
adverb thiab tseem yog noun tib si lo muaj. Yog peb to taub txog
grammar zoo ces peb yeej cais tau hais tias los lus ntawd, nyob rau
lub tsamthawj ntawd nws yog txheejlus dabtsi thiab txhabtxhais licas.
Piv txwv li no:
Txiv (1), koj muab lub txiv (2) no mus txiv (3) ntiag rau nruabnrab
kom txiv (4) txiv (5) es txiv (6) tsis tau ntxiv kiag lawm tso soj.
(1) Txiv = father (noun)
(2) txiv = fruit (noun)
(3) & (6) txiv or txim = tightly pack in (verb)
(4) txiv = tight (adjective)
(5) txiv = tightly (adverb modify the adjective txiv (4))
HL
Born2beHmong
HL,
zaumno, zoo lawm ntau...yog li peb yuav nrhiav li cas, es peb thiaj li
tau cov neeg ua nyiam tshawbfawb li no los nrog tsimkho peb haiv neeg
Mhoob cov lus.kom meej pem rau lub ntuj yav pemsuab. peb puas tau kam
pab nyiajtxiaj los them cov neeg ua yuav los tshawbfawb yam no rau peb
haiv.
uas tsuag,
born
Tony
sisndlo le tau lulug tshab. Lulug tshab ntawd yuav muaj lub ntsablug
tshab yog le ntawd nwg yuav txawv ob lub ntsablug ntawm ob lub
hauvpawg lug.
Txhualeej = everyone
Nyeemntawv = Reading
Lugmoog = become
Kawmtau = have done
Txhawbsab = encouragement
Yog yuav txhais ib lu lug tuaj ce yog le nuav:
Txhua leej = enough Leng
Nyeem ntawv = read paper
Lug moog = come go
Kawm tau = learn get
Txhawb sab = lift high
Lub homphaj yog tsim lug tshab siv ntsablug tshab kuas caum cuag
lubneej taamsim nuav.
pebcov...@yahoo.com
nej kav tsij siv nej tus ntawv Hmoob thoob ntuj. peb cov havzoov lam
siv ntawv las tees txuam nrog ntawv las hmoob chaofa keeb phaj hauj.
Txiabneeb koj tsis ntshai tsam koj tsim tau tus ntawv Hmoob thoob ntuj
no es yawg nai phoo Vaj Pov lawv muab koj dov ib yam li thaum i lawv
tua yaj soob lwj lod? Thaum i soob lwj tias soob lwj tsim tau yawg tus
ntawv saub ntawv ntuj ntawv ces vaj pov lawm thiaj muab yawg rho siav
lawm ntag. koj yuav tau ceev faj.
Tzianeng Vang
Ua tsaug uas koj muaj kuv tso rau lub zam xeeb loj npaum...tiam sis
thov paub tias tus ntawv Hmoob Thoob Ntuj no twb tsis yog kuv tus ne.
Kuv tsuas yog ib tug mej yes kawm, siv, thiab pab tshaj cov xov
xwb...yog tias Niam Ntawv Soob Lwj Yaj tus ntawv Phaj Hauj thiab lwm
cov niam ntawv tsim los ntawd Hmoob xws li ntawv Paj Ntaub uas Nom
Dawb Xyooj thiab nws cov npoj yaig tsim tau los mus rau cov ntawv
Qauvntaub Qauvntawv (Hmong Ancient Writing), Lis Foom, Lauj Foom,
Nplog/Thaib (Lao/Thai script), Paj Ntaub, Pollard Script los yog ntawv
Puaj Txwm (www.hmoobvwj.com) thiab lwm cov ntawv Hmoob tsim tshiab
hais tuav tsis txhua paub tsis txog. Yog kuv muaj lawv li cov FONTS
ces yeej muaj nthuav tuaj rau peb sib pab kawm thiab...
Tsis tag li thov paub thiab tias lub sij hawm no peb nyob tsis muaj
teb muaj chaw ces cuab yeej npaj li cas peb siv mus li ntawv...txhais
tau tias tus ntawv twg peb feem coob siv lawm thiab siv tau yooj yim
ces thov sib pab siv mus; hnub qab nram lub ntsis yog peb txawm tau
tsheej neeg Hmoob li cas peb mam tsa kom tau kom txhij peb tus niam
ntawv Hmoob tom qab ntawd tsis lig mog...
Yog no ua tsaug tiam sis ua siab loj nawb...
pebcov...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Txiabneeb,
ua koj tsaug thiab. yog li koj hais thiab tus ntawv las tees no yog
txiv plig lawv tsim tab sis lawv tsis tau tis npe ua ntawv hmoob ntuj
los yog thoob ntuj li koj tis no ces tsam lawv cov lus li nai phoo
lawv ntshav ho siab nce taub ho ces lawv lam ua lub txias-txias li
lawv ua rau yaj soob lwj xwb. yog li koj hais no ces to taub zoo thiab
tso siab lawm.
zhen
On Jan 31, 9:58 am, Tzianeng Vang <txiabn...@gmail.com> wrote:
zhen
caas mej tuaj qhuas qaab qhuas tsau os? txawm yog le caas + lwm lub
npe lug tseem yog 3 nyuag daj hau tej qub txheeg qub teg.
ib lub paaj txawm pes tsawg lub npe lug tseem tsw le qub hab hog.
mej tsis yog nce ov. mej yog ncig ua vaaj voo sib cau tum tw xwb os.
On Jan 29, 6:23 pm, Tony <avang_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Tzianeng Vang
yog muaj siab tiag thov xa email rau tus email:
txiabneeb(at)gmail.com...ua tsaug!
Hmong-Lao
Kuv yeej to taub koj hais, tiamsis tsis agree tias kev sib txis ntawd
yuav tsum yog txais los ntawm lus Meskas. Vim peb cov lus Hmoob thiab
lus Meskas siv tsis sib thooj thiab hais tsis sib raws. Yog koj yuav
txhais ib sob lus Meskas ua lub hmoob, txhais ib lo xam ib lo ces yeej
tsis to taub li. Hos yog ho muab ib lo lus Meskas los txhais ua lus
Hmoob. Muaj ntau lo lus Meskas mas hmoob tsis muaj lus ces tsuas piav
piav rau xwb. Yog koj muab cov lus piav ntawd coj los sib txis ua ib
lo lus ces nws yuav zoo no ntag.
business = kevualagualuam
economy = kevnyiajkevtxaijkevlagkevluam
eduacation = kevkawmntaubkawmntawvkawmtxawjkawmntse
employment = ualajuakamkhwvnojkhwvhaus
earning = khwvnyiajtxiag
The list go on ...
Li koj twb tau hias ntawd, compound words yog muab 2-3 lo lus uas
nyias muaj nyias ntsiablus sib txawv, coj los sib txis ua ib lo kom
muaj lwm lub ntsiab tshiab. Li no thiaj yog compound words. For
example:
totaub
taubhau
qhovmuag
ntxwjsisnyoog
etc...
HL
Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej
threads relating to this subject of compound words already. Hmong-Lao, you
piqued my interest with your method of deciding which should be compound and
which shouldn't be. Correct me if I'm wrong, from your example below, can I
conclude that your thinking is it should be okay to compound two nouns to
together to be one compound word (ntsablug), but we shouldn't use the same
logic to compound a pair of verbs to be one verb (losmus)? Do you think our
language have prefix and suffix or not, with regard to "sibcog" and "hudua".
Again, correct me if I'm wrong in trying to understand your line of thinking
more, since you still have not made a definite decision yet whether to
accept hudua to be correct or not, can I presume that you are leaning more
toward accepting than not accepting? Because you are still unsure of
niamntawv, which I thought should not be all that difficult to decide if we
are to follow the logic of ntsablug, then one undecided will probably be at
the same consideration level as the other undecided,
hudua=niamntawv=ntsablug. If my presumption is correct that you are leaning
toward accepting hudua, why? If my presumption is wrong, why not? What is
it about hudua that would make you hesitate to accept it as a correct
compound word?
Thank you for your sharing of ideas.
Moob Lajleeb
"Hmong-Lao" <Hmla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9891012d-0820-420d...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Moobsib
Koj has tsi yog lawm. Peb hu nqaij ua nqaj, hu tug nqaj ntoo/hlau ua
"nqaaj" nua naj. Tog laj kam B2BH tsi to taub koj los tub yog koj sau
yuam kev ntaag los mas.. hahahaa...
Lu lug father (txiv) nuav mas cov Moob Thaib hab Moob Moos Pheeb has
muaj ntsis tawm lub suab "txwv". Tej zag peb muab sau txawv (spell
differently) ib yaam le "txiwv" nua los kuj hab. Mej xaav le caag?
Koj qhov suggestion los yeej zoo lawm hab. Tawm sis nyob huv lwm haiv
neeg le lug, ib yaam le English, los kuj muaj tej lu lug kws txhais
tau ob yaam hab. Lu txiv nuav yog yug noog tug has zoo ces yug yeej
paub tseebx tas nwg has txug lub txiv ntoo los sis leej txiv lawm. Yog
le mas kuv xaav tas nws tsi yog ib qho teeb meem kws yuav tau khu.
ms
Hmong-Lao
Zoo siab uas koj muaj pluaj siab xav tham txog kev sau ntawv sib txuas
thiab. Muaj ib co uas kuv xav hais tias yuamkev, tej zaum kuj twb yog
lawm; tej lo, kuv xav hais tias siv tau, no los ntshe twb yuamkev lawm
los muaj. Li cas los peb sib qhia nawb. Txawm nej leej twg hais tias
kuv yuam kev lawm no los kuv yeej tsis tu siab.
Vim koj nug txog ib zaug lawm, cia kuv piav me ntsis li qhov kuv xav.
niamntawv tsis tau txiavtxim siab
niam = mother, some times mean big, main, important, head, creator
ntawv = paper, letter, written language
niamntawd = main letter, important letter
"niam" is an adjective describing the noun "ntawv".
niamntawd = alphabet
In here "niamntawv" seems to be one word.
It doesn't matter if the individual words are verbs, nouns or anything
else, they may be combined to form a compound word. What I tried to
say is that in a complete sentence, there should at least be a
subject, a verb, and an object. In subject or object, the word(s) may
be noun, pronoun, adjective, preposition and/or adverb. In verb, the
word(s) may be verb, adverb and/or auxiliary verb. In a particular
sentence, if we combine the verb with the object then the sentence
will be incomplete.
losmus, ntsablug, sibcog, hudua
Cov lus no yeej yog ib co lus uas yus muab xav li cas los yog li ntawd
thiab. Yog muab xam ua compound word los kuj yuav siv tau thiab.
Li cas los xij, yog koj ho xam pom li cas los cia li tsis txhob ua
kauv zais hneev, tshws zais nas. Yeej meem phua plawv tuaj es peb
thiaj paub muab sib kho.
HL
lusf...@yahoo.com
Nej tham tawm tau ib co tswv yim zoo kawg nkaus. Kuv tus kheej los
yeej xav tau li nej hais no los ntev lawm. Tab sis kuv pheej kho tsis
dhos peb cov lus li xwb. Zoo li peb cov haiv neeg nyob rau phab Es
Xias cov lus pheej tsis thooj cov lus nyob rau sab hnub poob li.
Piv txwv lus Askiv: "study, everyone, encouragment"
Suav: 读书 (dú shū), 每个人 (měi gè rén), 奖 (jiǎng)
Thaib: ศึกษา (sèuk-săa), ทุกคน (tóok kon), สิ่งจูงใจ (sìng joong
jai)
Hmoob: kawm ntawv, txhua leej, txhawb siab
Nco ntsoov tias ntau hom lus ntawm cov haiv neeg hais no lawv kev sau
ntawv mas yog sau sib txuas zws lo tib lo ua tej niag sob ua ke. Txawm
li ntawd los thaum lawv nyeem lawv yeej nyeem ib lo zuj zus sib txuas
nrws mus kom tag sob lus.
Lo lus tseem ceeb yuav nug peb tus kheej mas yog tias ua li peb yuav
siv yoog raws li cov haiv neeg Es Xias los yog siv li ntawv Askiv?
Kuv pom li tus kwv tij Hmong-Lao hais thiab. Yog peb yuav muab sib
txuas ces yeej txuas tsis paub kawg li.
hlub
kevhlub
kevsibhlub
txojkevhlub
txojkevsibhlub
txojkevsibsibhlub
dawb
dawblias
dawbvog
dawbpaug
dawbpesvog
dawbzomzaws
dawbpaugntsaiab
dawbpauglaimtxias
dawbpaugntsaistsias
dawbpaugcintsaiablaimpesvog
loj
lojzog
lojzoglawm
lojzogmeme
lojzogmemelawm
lojtshajzogmemelawm
lojtshajplawslilawmntag
lojtshajplawsqhovlojlawm
lojtsislojmaslojtshajplawslilawm
lojtsislojmaslojtshajplawsqhovhaistau
lojtsislojmaslojtshajplawsqhovhaistaulilawm
lojkawgkiagqhovyuavtxawjlojtaulilawmntaglau
Thaum pom zoo li no lawm peb ho yuav muab sib txuas mus txog theem twg
thiaj yuav kawg lus? Thaum peb muab teeb ua dictionary ho yuav teeb li
cas thiaj nrhiav tau yooj yim? Nej ho nrog xav seb yuam
Hmong-Lao
Koj nkag siab txog qhov kuv hais lawm lau. Kuv nyiam koj cov lus piv
txwv ntawv heev. Yog peb yov muab lus Askiv coj los ua lub hauv paus
(reference) raub peb sau lus hmoob los ua compound words ces peb yov
yuam kev. Cov uas paub ntawv Askiv zoo ces yuav tsis txog txij twg,
tiamsis cov uas tsis paub ntawv Askiv, cov uas nyob rau sab ntuj qub
qab ces lawv yuav tsis totaub hais tias yog vim dab tsi es ho muab cov
lus "kawmntawv, txhualeej, kevtxhawbsiab" no sau sib lo.
Thov qiv koj cov lus piv txwv los ua piv txwv dua.
study = 读书 (dú shū) = ศึกษา (sèuk-săa) = kawm ntawv
everyone = 每个人 (měi gè rén) = ทุกคน (tóok kon) = Txhua leej
encouragment = 奖 (jiǎng) = สิ่งจูงใจ (sìng joong = kev txhawb siab
Qhob tseeb tiag, ntawv Thaib thiab ntawv Nplog mas yeej sau sib txuas
zws quag xam quag (phrase by phrase) thiab kab xam kab (sentence by
sentence). Ntawv suav mas sau lo xam lo. Ntawv Askiv mas sau lo xam lo
thiab ho muaj tej lo sau sib txuas (compound words). Hos ntawv Hmoob
mas ib txwm sau lo xam lo, tiam sis muaj cov tub txawg tshiab xav hais
tias cia sau lo xam lo thiab ho sau tej los sib txuas vim hais tias
tej lo ntawd yog tsis muaj ob lo los hais ua kev ces yeej tsis tsheej
ntsiab. Li cas los xij, txawm muab sau sib txis thiab tsis txis lo peb
yeej to taub thiab yeej nyeem tsis yuav kev hlo li. Qhov zoo ces yog
kom peb thiaj li paub muab los tso ua tej lo tej los ua phau
dictionary xwb.
Tam li kuv xav, yog peb leej twg yov muab ntawv hmoob los teeb kom
muaj phaj muam tim (standardize) mas peb yuav tau siv cov grammar
Suav, Thaib, Nplog los yog NyabLaj ua lub hauv paus (reference) vim
peb cov lus thiab lawv cov lus hais mus tib seem.
HL
lusf...@yahoo.com
HL,
Ua koj tsaug ntau uas koj tseem muab kho tau ua rau tob taub yooj yim
tshaj lawm. Luag tej laus hais tias ib tug ceg kos teeb tsis tau lauj
kaub ces yog tej no tiag.
Hais txog kev txhim kho peb cov lus Hmoob mas yeej tsis yog ib qho
yooj yim kiag tab sis peb yuav tsum ua tau xwb. Yog peb yuav muab ob
lo lus coj los sau sib txuas/sib phoo ua ke kom tau ib lo lus-ua lo
lus tshiab li ib txhia hais mas kuv xav hais tias yuav tsis yog ib lub
tswv yim zoo pes tsawg. Tiam sis yog peb tsawb fawb peb cov lus hmoob
qub qub uas tsis siv lawm los sis peb xeem txhua (tsim tawm) ib co lus
tshiab los siv mas kuv pom hais tias yuav tsum mus taus xwb.
Kuv lam muab sau ua lus piv txwv seb puas lo npliag zoo:
TSIS SIB TXUAS:
1. Peb sawv daws txhua tus pom ib tug poj niam zaum ua ke nrog ib tug
txiv neej zoo li nkawv sib tham hais lus luag ntxhi xwb.
2. Cov tub ntxhais kawm ntawv tiav qib siab lawm yuav tau kub siab tig
los qhuab qhia tsoom me tub me ntxhais kom paub mob siab siv zog mus
nrog luag sib tw kawm txuj kawm ci.
SIB TXUAS:
1. Peb sawvdaws txhuatus pom ibtug pojniam zaum uake nrog ibtug
txivneej zoo li nkawv sibtham haislus luagntxi.
2. Cov tubntxhais kawmntawv tiav qibsiab lawm yuav tau kubbsiab tiglos
qhuabqhia tsoom metubmentxhais kom paub mobsiab sivzog mus nrog luag
sibtw kawmtxujkawmci.
Nej hais qhov twg thiaj yuav ua rau tib neeg to taub yooj yim dua?
Tzianeng Vang
Cov phooj ywg Hmoob hmov tshua,
Ua tsaug rau nej tej tswv yim nawb...lwm qhov mas kuv paub tsis txog
tiam sis peb ob tug nyob thiab qhia ntawv Hmoob rau ntawd nroog
Ntxaib, xeev MN no kuj xam pom ib yam li nej tej tswv yim no, thiab.
Ua tsaug rau tej nej tau ntau kev lawm. Li cas los peb yuav tau sib
qhia siab thiaj yuav cuag ncua nawb...
Hais txog ntaub ntawv & lus/suab Hmoob:
1. KEY FUNCTION: MONO-SYLLABLE LANGUAGE; each must retain its true/
original definition
2. Yuav tsum siv lwm haiv lus li kev vam meej los ua qauv tiam sis peb
yuav nrhiav kev pauv kom peb siv tau tsis yog pauv caum luag kom sib
cuag xwb...yes, we must use others to help improve ours, but never to
lose our because it doesn't fit others'.
3. Yuav nrhiav kev los txhim kho tsis yog yuav nrhiav los rhuav tshem;
complimenting and not taking away the true accent of what each Hmong
word stands for...
Ua tsaug = thanks!
Ua koj (neb = you two; nej = you all) tsaug = thank you or thank you
all!
-Txiabneeb
Tony
> Nej hais qhov twg thiaj yuav ua rau tib neeg to taub yooj yim dua?- Hide quoted text -
Thaus sau sistxuas, peb pum lub ntsablug meejdlua. Peb yuavrhu covlug
tsaamchaw povtseg kuaj totaub yoojyim tshaaj. Sau los yoojyim, nyeem
los yoojyim, haslug los yoojyim. Qhov ntawd yog lub homphaj.
1. Peb txhuatus pom ibtug pojniam zaumnrog ibtug txivneej sibtham
haislus luagntxi.
2. Cov tubntxhais kawmntiav qibsiab yuavtau kubsiab qhuabqhia tsoom
tubntxhais kompaub sivzog musnrog luag sibtw kawm txujci.
Muab faib ua ib lu lug has:
1. Peb txhua tus pom ib tug poj niam zaum nrog ib tug txiv neej sib
tham hais lus luag ntxi.
2. Cov tub ntxhais kawmn tiav qib siab yuav tau kub siab qhuab qhia
tsoom tubn txhais kom paub siv zog mus nrog luag sib tw kawm txuj ci.
Tsaamnuav qhovtwg yog qhov uarua koj nkaagsab sai losyog yoojyim sau,
nyeem, haslug letejntawd?
Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej
regarding to the issue of improving our language so it will resonate
with the changing time. As time changes, language also changes, both
written form and verbal form. We now use words less and less
indiscriminately because we know more about our past, which help us to
distinguish each word's meaning more accurately. Instead of just
keeping on being so generalize, we becoming more specific with what we
want each word/phrase/sentence to convey the intended message. So, in
order to capture this preciseness, the debate of whether we even need
compound words or not arise. Now it seems, to some, that by combining
words to form a compound word actually have an opposite effect of the
intended purpose, causing more confusion than clarification. It will
just be a recycle of old thoughts that have been discussed in here
before already, but let's dissect them some more.
To Lusfaj's comparison of Thai and Laotian way of writing everything
connect together, and his question of "Lo lus tseem ceeb yuav nug peb
tus kheej mas yog tias ua li peb yuav siv yoog raws li cov haiv neeg
Es Xias los yog siv li ntawv Askiv?" Let's put each type of writing
system, RPA and Phajhauj, with their birth location. Use RPA
according to the western's way of writing and Phajhauj as far eastern
way. I know that this thread is only concentrate on the RPA, but just
want to throw in that distinction so we all could see the reason why,
rather than still keeping on debating which way--eastern or western--to
use the RPA. With that being said, then the
"lojtsislojmaslojtshajplawsqhovhaistaulilawm" and
"lojkawgkiagqhovyuavtxawjlojtaulilawmntaglau" will not make much sense
at all, for those two are phrases and not compound words. We have to
know the difference and be precise of what we are talking about in the
first place. Is it only a compound word or a phrase that could
actually be a sentence?
I don't know why some people would rather want to separate a single
noun to be multiple words than a single word with multiple syllables
(tswv yim instead of tswvyim, hom phaj instead of homphaj, etc. )
For the combination of multi nouns, my understanding of namntawv is
mother of writing [same as namtsev=mother of the house=housewife] and
not alphabet, for alphabet should be tsajntawv. Yes, it will seem as
though I just contradict myself here, but no, I don't believe it
should be written as tsajntawvnam or tsajntawvtxiv for vowel and
consonant either. If we want to accept that then we will have to
write tsajntawvtxivtxooj too. This will fall right back on to the
lojtsiloj...example. Tsajntawv nam and tsajntawv txivtxooj, will be
the correct way of writing these nouns. The difference between
tsajntawv txiv and tswvyim is that yim do not describe/modify/qualify
tswv as txiv qualify tsajntawv. This then lead to the articles for
nouns such as raab, lub, and others will need to be written separately
from the noun that it specifies. Raab dlav and lub phaaj cannot be
written as raabdlav and lubphaaj.
I believe the issue of whether our language have prefix and suffix or
not have already been settled that yes we do, then as RPA goes, let's
use those prefixes and suffixes accordingly. Once again, we would
need to know the definition of those words so we can distinguish the
difference of tuabyaam to tuabyaamnkaus, zoozog to zoo tshaaj,
plujplag, tuagnthi, etc. etc. etc. There are also other miscellaneous
that I think we should make a distinction of such as ob tug [two]
to obtug [nkawd for Hmoob Dawb], xaavtau [want] to xaav tau
[thought], zoo nyob [better living] to zoonyob [sexual climax],
etc.
Moob Lajleeb
lusf...@yahoo.com
Koj muaj zoo tswv yim lawm. Kav tsij piav rau peb kawm ntxiv. Kuv mas
tsuas yog xav hais tias peb haiv neeg Hmoob cov lus, lub suab lus, kev
hais lus, thiab kev sau lus mas yam li tsis thooj rau cov haiv neeg
nyob tog ntuj hnub poob no li xwb. Tab sis nej coob tus kuj piav tau
muaj chaw txawb chaw rau kawg. Kuv npaj siab yuav nrog nej kho Hmoob
kev sau ntawv kom zoo thiab yooj yim siv ntxiv.
Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej
"Moobsib" <Mong...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e0962868-972c-48da...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Lu lug father (txiv) nuav mas cov Moob Thaib hab Moob Moos Pheeb has
> muaj ntsis tawm lub suab "txwv". Tej zag peb muab sau txawv (spell
> differently) ib yaam le "txiwv" nua los kuj hab. Mej xaav le caag?
>
> Koj qhov suggestion los yeej zoo lawm hab. Tawm sis nyob huv lwm haiv
> neeg le lug, ib yaam le English, los kuj muaj tej lu lug kws txhais
> tau ob yaam hab. Lu txiv nuav yog yug noog tug has zoo ces yug yeej
> paub tseebx tas nwg has txug lub txiv ntoo los sis leej txiv lawm. Yog
> le mas kuv xaav tas nws tsi yog ib qho teeb meem kws yuav tau khu.
>
> ms
Moobsib, you are only one of the very few that do notice and make that
distinction of txiv, txwv, and as you put it txiwv. In the older
translation of the Bible that was used mainly in the early eighties, the
Blue Meo version did used txwv. I've posted the unfinished work of the
phonetic writing in the hmong-lg forum a while back, I've thought about
using the the French pronunciation of either the il or ui. Different people
will pronounce differently, but definitely not the same as the txiv
pronunciation. My preference would be txuiv instead of txilv, but then
again, perhaps txiwv would be best? More thought from you?
In regard to the fruit txiv issue, we have already discussed about hyphenate
in here before too. Then again as being discussed before, I wouldn't want
to read a whole page of nothing but hyphenated words. I also agree with you
that txiv should be written separate from the particular fruit that it
specifies, for the dluaj, majkianb, majnaus, maumkuab, poovluj, tsawb, etc.
etc. would fall in the same situation as the tsajntawv txivtxooj, they
describe what kind of fruit it is.
Moob Lajleeb
Moobsib
Thanks for sharing. I see what you are say. Qhov tseeb ces peb tsi
taag yuav sau kuas txawv los yeej tau lawm vim tas peb lub Hmoob,
thaus siv lu lug "txiv' nuav, txawm yuav yog hom twg los xijpeem, nwg
yeej muaj lu adverb or descritive term nrug. Nyob le tas:
Txiv= father, kuv txiv, koj txiv, leej txiv, kuv tug txiv, peb txiv,
etc..
Txiv= fruit: txiv tsawb, txiv raumnpua, txiv muas kaabntxwv, txiv
zuaj, txiv postshauv, txiv laumfuabxeeb, txiv kaabcuajceg, etc..
MS
Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej
I've alreay said that for fruit, the second word will modify the first
to what kinf of fruit that is, therefore we need to write them as two
separate words. However, when we talk about human, we know that txiv
will definitely mean the person that we are talking about is masculine
and not feminine. However can we really say that the word following
it really describe what kind of man that man is? I don't know what
dluaj mean, but when use with txiv, I don't have to know what dluaj
mean. All I need to know is what dluaj is. Dluaj is the name of that
particular fruit. It doesn't have to have a particular meaning, for
dluaj is dluaj, a name. When it comes to human, however, does kwj
really describe what kind of man that man is to you? Or does it
describe what relationship that man is to you? And of course, the all
time famous dlaab. Would it not make more sense to write txivkwj and
txivdlaab than txiv kwj and txiv dlaab? Ntxawm is the feminine of
the masculine ntxawg, but wouldn't that be more confusing to use a
feminine as modifier of the preceeding masculine? Even though it's
the same person, Txiv Ntxawg is different from Txivntxawm Ntxawg,
rhetorically. In my opinion, txivntxawm make more sense than txiv
ntxawm. Same goes for yawmtxiv to yawm txiv, pujnyaaj to puj nyaaj,
yawglaus to yawg laus, txivhlob to txiv hlob, etc. In writing, it
would be less confusing to see Namntxawm Ntxawg than Nam ntxawm
Ntxawg. In speaking, we are too lazy to even use the nam anymore, we
just simply say Ntxawm Ntxawg. I know, I'm kinda zigzag a bit too
much here, but just want to bring in the relativity of kinship in
human relations compare to simply naming fruit. Anyone else care to
share more of your thoughts on this?
Moob Lajleeb
Moobsib
above.
Have a nice day,
ms
Born2beHmong
other race, as how they used. we need to put an exception to some of
the terms, as how we speak and say them. there would never be a
perfect world that it needs to prove them to be one-to-one, but one
can be to many.
perhaps, we were so dominately with others sentence structures and
we're trying to so hard to fit in our own language as others...such as
some words as tswvyim, pajhlwb, kotaw, ntivtes....and more...they
would be our own interested to use as a compoud word. there is no
perfect case from here to there--but we must structure our language to
fit as the intense of usage, not because of a matching and ordering as
other race language structure.
for this very reason, we hmong men can grow onto a very healthy
language, for the future of our children and as a race.
Born