Dodge Kahuna name offensive to Hawaiians (URL)
John Book
http://www.petitiononline.com/Kahuna04/petition.html
I created this in the hopes of bringing attention to the use of
cultural/ethnic words as a means to sell cars. I hope to speak out on
this for those who may not be able to. Thanks.
p.e.a.c.e.
-John Book
mel
In article <1073361...@news.lava.net>,
john...@yahoo.com (John Book) wrote:
> I created this in the hopes of bringing attention to the use of
> cultural/ethnic words as a means to sell cars. I hope to speak out on
> this for those who may not be able to. Thanks.
>
What's the big deal with this? A lot of words are used for product
names...
We have "The Big Kahuna" 105.9 FM playing Classic Rock music right here
in Honolulu.
Looking up the word "kahuna" on Google, we find the following company or
product names, all used commercially....
"Kahuna Video Productions"
"Kool Kahuna" Shirts
"Big Kahunas" looks like some kind of water park.
"Kahuna Bob's Surf School"
"Kahuna Action Products" - watches and watch straps
"Big Kahuna Hawaiian Shirts and Classic Aloha Shirts"
"Big Kahuna Hosting" ... website hosting service....
There's more.....
All kinds of firms use Hawaiian words and names to sell products or
services. There is nothing wrong with this. We live in the land of
capitalism. There is nothing wrong with giving a product a brand name.
Chrysler will not change the name of their truck just because a few
hundred or so people sign a petition. The only thing that would force
them to drop the name and the product is if no one bought the truck.
God Bless America!
DKM
I can understand John's point about how people could be offended,
particularly given the meaning of the word. I can also see mel's point
that
it's probably a hopeless given the widespread use of the word.
What I don't understand is why he needed to add in "God Bless America!"
afterward, since the original post had no anti-American or
anti-Christian
remarks. In addition to "capitalism," petition and free speech are also
important activities in American society, and that is what John is
doing.
As far as the effectiveness of the petition? Well, you have to start
somewhere!
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1073374...@news.lava.net...
MTI
Wow, I just checked today . . . nine signatures . . . that's going to
get
Daimler Chrysler's attention. Just what part of using the word "kahuna"
offensive? Wouldn't people interested in preserving the Hawaiian
language
be interested in promoting more world wide use of it, rather than
letting it
become a limited closed off language. Whenever I'm away from the
islands, I
try to introduce a few phrases to friends and colleagues. Who hasn't
done a
"okole maluna" toast on the mainland, and then explain the literal
translation? LOL
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1073374...@news.lava.net...
> What's the big deal with this? A lot of words are used for product
> names...
It may be due to some Hawaiians not wanting a sacred name on a car. A
pic of
such car can be seen at
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/83142/page028.html
> We have "The Big Kahuna" 105.9 FM playing Classic Rock music right here
> in Honolulu.
>
> Looking up the word "kahuna" on Google, we find the following company
> or
> product names, all used commercially....
>
> "Kahuna Video Productions"
>
> "Kool Kahuna" Shirts
>
> "Big Kahunas" looks like some kind of water park.
>
> "Kahuna Bob's Surf School"
>
> "Kahuna Action Products" - watches and watch straps
>
> "Big Kahuna Hawaiian Shirts and Classic Aloha Shirts"
>
> "Big Kahuna Hosting" ... website hosting service....
>
> There's more.....
That doesnt make it right.
> All kinds of firms use Hawaiian words and names to sell products or
> services. There is nothing wrong with this.
There is when its deemed as disrespectful. Perhaps it isnt to you but
it is
to some.
> We live in the land of
> capitalism. There is nothing wrong with giving a product a brand name.
No... there is something wrong with giving a SACRED name to a product.
Thats
not the Hawaiian way and should be respected. Unless of course this
country
is hypocritical proclaiming that we are a just nation yet turn around
and be
unjust to any *one* Hawaiian or Hawaiians.
> Chrysler will not change the name of their truck just because a few
> hundred or so people sign a petition. The only thing that would force
> them to drop the name and the product is if no one bought the truck.
No it is not a waste to speak up for whats right. Its also our civil
right... Hawaiian or not.
> God Bless America!
But I dont believe in God. What do we do now?
>
Lana
"MTI" <ma...@mc-carter.com> wrote in message
news:1073448...@news.lava.net...
>
> Wow, I just checked today . . . nine signatures . . . that's going to
> get
> Daimler Chrysler's attention.
Actually its now up to 18... yay!
DKM
"Preserving the Hawaiian language" is a poor excuse for turning a blind
eye
to the use of an important Hawaiian word in a manner which can be
perceived
as mockery or disrespect.
In fact, the petitioners are doing more to preserve the language by
protesting rather than encouraging indiscriminate use of it! I think
I'll
go register now, too!!!
"MTI" <ma...@mc-carter.com> wrote in message
news:1073448...@news.lava.net...
[snip]
> offensive? Wouldn't people interested in preserving the Hawaiian
> language
> be interested in promoting more world wide use of it, rather than
> letting it
> become a limited closed off language.
[snip]
Nathan Lau
Lana wrote:
> "mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1073374...@news.lava.net...
>
>> What's the big deal with this? A lot of words are used for product
>> names...
>
> It may be due to some Hawaiians not wanting a sacred name on a car. A
> pic of
> such car can be seen at
> http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/83142/page028.html
Thanks for the link. The article says that this is a concept car that
may not make it into production for a few years. The "Kahuna" could be
a code name; if it ever makes it into production, it might come under a
more "politically correct" name.
--
Aloha,
Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA
#include <std.disclaimer>
MTI
. . . and frankly, where is the "mockery or disrespect" when a company
selects a popular term, which has established itself in the language of
popular culture, to represent a major product? Have you seen the
product or
the promotional logo or marketing that goes along with it, or is this
just a
blind call for a "knee jerk" reaction? Dazzle me with facts.
DKM
I don't know about "politically correct," but giving it a different name
certainly would be respectful and considerate. Whenever I hear that
term
"politically correct" these days, it is almost always used as a
smoke-screen
for "Oh just let me run roughshod over your beliefs and what you find
important!" It gives the speaker a false authority to say, "Just shut
up
and let me do whatever I want!"
"Nathan Lau" <lau...@sbcglobaldot.net> wrote in message
news:1073630...@news.lava.net...
[snip]
Lana
"Nathan Lau" <lau...@sbcglobaldot.net> wrote in message
news:1073630...@news.lava.net...
> Thanks for the link. The article says that this is a concept car that
> may not make it into production for a few years. The "Kahuna" could be
> a code name; if it ever makes it into production, it might come under a
> more "politically correct" name.
Yes... it is a concept car. A concept that is perpetuating disrespect
towards Hawaiians and their culture :) Also for those who dont even know
what a kahuna is...
There are different types of kahuna:
kauka ha'iha'i iwi - bone setter
lomilomi - massage expert
la'au lapa'au - herb doctor
niho - tooth doctor (today we use kauka niho for a dentist)
kaukaukalolo - tattoo expert
wehewehe - dream interpreter
imu (umu) keeper of the oven; cooking expert
po'o - high priest
kilokilo - reader of skies & omens
kalai - carving expert
ho'oulu'ai - agriculture expert
nanina'ouli - character reader
a'o - teacher of sorcery
kuehu - one who drove off evil spirits
kaula - prophet
'ana'ana, ho'ounauna, kuni - those who used black magic
ninau 'uhane - one who speaks to spirits
haha - one who diagnoses illness by feeling the body
kumu hula - one in charge of hula halau
ho'ohanau keiki - midwife
ho'ohapai keiki - one who cared for women carrying child; labor inducers
mamake kaua - one who plotted & led wars
pa'ao'ao - diagnosis of children's diseases
la'au kahea - faith healing
haku mele ula - makers of chants & music
kalai wa'a - canoe maker
'ea - one who could raise the dead
'o'o - one who healed by bleeding the ill
ho'okele - navigator
wanana i ke au o ka manawa - reader of weather signs
kelamoku - expert seaman (I'm certain this term is new)
lawai'amanu - expert bird catcher
ka'a kaua - war strategist
papa po'o - leader of the warriors
lawelawe iwi - one who cared for bones of the dead
lawai'a kolau - expert catching fish w/ a net
'upena hana - expert fish net maker
kukei'i wana'ao - expert story teller
hale kukulu - expert house builder
hui - member of the chief's court who led functions/ceremonies
i'e kuku ho'ooki - expert tapa maker
ho'a 'ahu - one who supplied clothing for chief & court
No... kahuna is not about surfing nor does it have much to do with surfing
:)
Lana
"MTI" <ma...@mc-carter.com> wrote in message
news:1073721...@news.lava.net...
>
> . . . and frankly, where is the "mockery or disrespect" when a company
> selects a popular term,
A popular term that is used inaccurately :)
> which has established itself in the language of
> popular culture, to represent a major product?
It has established itself as a mockery of Hawaiian kahuna. Do you even what
Hawaiian kahuna are?
> Have you seen the
> product or
> the promotional logo or marketing that goes along with it, or is this
> just a
> blind call for a "knee jerk" reaction? Dazzle me with facts.
Here is Dodge's official site. The other link that I provided included a
picture of the concept car. So here...
YOU decide.
mel
I can't see why everyone is so bent out of shape on this car. It is a
name. The company (Dodge/Chrysler) has a right to give their product any
name they choose. No one has complained about "kahuna" or any other
Hawaiian word being used to market a product or service before. As I
pointed out earlier, there are many products and services with "kahuna"
attached to it.
Finding out that "Kahuna" is the name of only a concept car, then well,
why get into such a big tizzie about this? Maybe the car won't be made
after all. If it does, no big deal IMO.
After all we have "Aloha" Airlines and all the other products and
services named after "aloha". No one gets upset over that.
Geez.
MTI
I take it from your position that there can only be "one" proper use of
a
word in the culture. We disagree on that.
The word kahuna seems to have entered the pop culture lexicon back when
visiting surfers took it back home and used it as a term of affection
and
respect for those who were "the leaders" or perhaps more literally, the
leaders of the surfing "religion" on the beach.
Yes, having lived here all my life, I know what kahuna means, as well as
kapuna, aloha and pono. I also know that a language has to grow and
adapt
in order to be relevant and kept alive. As for the concept vehicle, the
design looks like a 21st century "woody" intended to connect with the
beach
culture of the late 50's and 60's, except no real surfer would be caught
dead in it.
I better go check the petition site and see if they had petitions for
the
Matador, the Samurai, Cherokee, Cadillac, Pontiac (especially that ugly
Aztec!) or Thunderbird.
Rick Smith
What no seems to have noticed is that this link and concept car is from
the 2003 NAIS. Over a year ago. Getting worked up over a name from a
concept over a year old, that clearly is not going into production,
seems like a bit of a waste to me.
Aloha from San Diego,
Rick
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1073868...@news.lava.net...
>
> I can't see why everyone is so bent out of shape on this car. It is a
> name. The company (Dodge/Chrysler) has a right to give their product
> any
> name they choose. No one has complained about "kahuna" or any other
> Hawaiian word being used to market a product or service before. As I
> pointed out earlier, there are many products and services with "kahuna"
> attached to it.
>
> Finding out that "Kahuna" is the name of only a concept car, then well,
> why get into such a big tizzie about this? Maybe the car won't be made
> after all. If it does, no big deal IMO.
>
> After all we have "Aloha" Airlines and all the other products and
> services named after "aloha". No one gets upset over that.
>
> Geez.
Are you sure that Hawaiians have never been upset about it? Or about
"HAWAIIAN" Airlines? If you doubt it perhaps you need to ask more
Hawaiians.
Also it should be noted that Hawaiians are very low on the
socio-economic
scale. Its very rare for us to have access to computers and/or a college
education so oftentimes our voices are not heard yet it and when you do
hear
some Hawaiian voices they dont necessarily reflect ALL Hawaiians but I
digress :)
mel
In article <1073880...@news.lava.net>,
Rick Smith <Rsmi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> What no seems to have noticed is that this link and concept car is from
> the 2003 NAIS. Over a year ago. Getting worked up over a name from a
> concept over a year old, that clearly is not going into production,
> seems like a bit of a waste to me.
Exactly.
Bob Oaks
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1073880...@news.lava.net...
And OMG, I am offended that there is an airline called AMERICAN, a car
named
after (and obviously demeaning) Abraham Lincoln, and another airline
presumably honoring VIRGINS. What is this world coming to?
Kimo
Rick Smith <Rsmi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:<1073880...@news.lava.net>...
> What no seems to have noticed is that this link and concept car is from
> the 2003 NAIS. Over a year ago. Getting worked up over a name from a
> concept over a year old, that clearly is not going into production,
> seems like a bit of a waste to me.
it is never a waste of time to bring attention to something that may
show disrespect to an aspect of Hawaiian Culture.
It is NOT clear whether it is going into production or not.
a new american car has nothing whatsoever to do with an Ancient
Hawaiian sacred tradition.
And in some people's estimation, the word "kahuna" should not be
affixed to a car.
This Dodge kahuna is getting alotta publicity. Doesn't matter if you
have not seen it;
it's in magazines, TV news shows, editorials and newspapers.
This promulgates misuse and disrespect of the word. Trying to bring
attention to, and correcting this is never a waste of time.
see; here's the problem some people may have with the wholesale
approriation of another's culture, words, concepts and then,mass
merchansiding them:
a quote from one of the MANY web site on the Dodge kahuna:
"The Kahuna was one of the big hits at this year's Detroit show and it
was even more popular on or near the beach. Kahuna means "The Boss" in
Hawaiian and designer Alan Barrington said they wanted the Kahuna to
represent the Dodge image - bold, powerful, practical and in your
face. "We wanted an active lifestyle vehicle as far away from the
mom-mobile minivan as possible, while utilizing the practicality of a
minivan's shape."
No; Kahuna does NOT mean the boss. it does NOT mean in yer face. It
does NOT mean a practical mini van active lifestyle."
see; many are sick and tired of this kind of thing. It piles up and
after a while just gets to be too much;
heres another.
>From the Akamai technologies web site:
"Akamai (pronounced AH kuh my) is Hawaiian for intelligent, clever and
cool."
ok;' so you have a product that you want to portray as cool so you
redefine an esoteric sounding word taken from another's culture and
use that word as yer trademark.
not very akamai.
Gerard Fryer
In article <1073967...@news.lava.net>,
hawaiia...@hotmail.com (Kimo) wrote:
> "The Kahuna was one of the big hits at this year's Detroit show and it
> was even more popular on or near the beach. Kahuna means "The Boss" in
> Hawaiian and designer Alan Barrington said they wanted the Kahuna to
> represent the Dodge image - bold, powerful, practical and in your
> face. "We wanted an active lifestyle vehicle as far away from the
> mom-mobile minivan as possible, while utilizing the practicality of a
> minivan's shape."
To me it looks like the perfect car for a stand-up comedian--it would
get the audience laughing even before you open your mouth (sorta like
the Plymouth Aztek or the Honda Element). People who know no Hawaiian
might translate "Kahuna" as "Clown," or, more likely, "Clod." It
certainly does represent the Dodge image though, the "European jogging
shoe" school of auto design.
I don't blame Hawaiians for complaining. I'd be offended too.
Gerard Fryer
> What no seems to have noticed is that this link and concept car is from
> the 2003 NAIS. Over a year ago. Getting worked up over a name from a
> concept over a year old, that clearly is not going into production,
> seems like a bit of a waste to me.
The LA Auto Show ended yesterday, Jan 11, 2004. The Dodge Slobmobile was
prominently on display.
Kalani M.
"Bob Oaks" <bobinsf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<1073923...@news.lava.net>...
> >
> And OMG, I am offended that there is an airline called AMERICAN, a car
> named
> after (and obviously demeaning) Abraham Lincoln, and another airline
> presumably honoring VIRGINS. What is this world coming to?
So the meaning of "Lincoln" after the car is the same? I think you
know that it was named in honor of someone, like the WILSON TUNNELS or
KAPIOLANI BLVD. That's different! Whereas the meaning behind WILSON
or more specifically "Kapiolani" is different. do you know what
Kapiolani means or what it was named after?
The fact is, when there is someone who speaks up, everyone else says
"what's the big deal". Ironic I think, that people still have that
old mentality that everything Hawaiian should be cool and laid back.
Nowadays we are experiencing much more educated Hawaiians, much
younger and well versed in the culture and people who complain about
Hawaiians complaining are only complaining b/c things are changing,
times have changed and it's something that doesn't sit well w/ them.
Kalani M.
> the 2003 NAIS. Over a year ago. Getting worked up over a name from a
> concept over a year old, that clearly is not going into production,
> seems like a bit of a waste to me.
> Aloha from San Diego,
>=20
> Rick
>
It's a waste to you, but doesn't mean we should just keep our mouths
shut and not voice our opinion. After all, that IS the "American" way
and last I checked...we're all Americans. I'm sure it's too late to
change, but doesn't mean that they can't know what we think of them
doing such things w/o thinking things thoroughly.
Perhaps you might think that saying it's a waste of time would make us
think differently, but I highly doubt it. There will always be people
whose personalities are much stronger and are much more assertive
therefore they'll speak up and get things done the way they'd like to
regardless if one thinks it's useless or not. It's not to YOUR
benefit really, if you think hard about it.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1073901...@news.lava.net...
>
> In article <1073880...@news.lava.net>,
> Rick Smith <Rsmi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> What no seems to have noticed is that this link and concept car is
>> from
>> the 2003 NAIS. Over a year ago. Getting worked up over a name from a
>> concept over a year old, that clearly is not going into production,
>> seems like a bit of a waste to me.
>
> Exactly.
Um NO... look at the Dodge website and go to the link for concept cars
and
thats for this year :)
Lana
"Bob Oaks" <bobinsf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1073923...@news.lava.net...
> And OMG, I am offended that there is an airline called AMERICAN, a car
> named
> after (and obviously demeaning) Abraham Lincoln, and another airline
> presumably honoring VIRGINS. What is this world coming to?
Well thats the beauty of this country. We are entitled to speak freely
as
long as it doesnt violate other peoples rights. Which leads me to the
point
that some of us are making (LOL). For some people "Kahuna" isnt
offensive
but to some it is sacreligious when used inappropriately. This is as
expected since many people are European-centric and/or American-centric
so
we do expect this type of response. That is a total lack of respect for
Hawaiians our culture our people our music our land etc :)
rocket
If you feel this way why do you not forbid white people to come to
islands They are the ones supporting your islands
You want it both ways, Hawaiians are leaving so whats the big deal,
They are coming to mainland for jobs so where do you draw the lines
rocket
Do you think the average tourists talks the language or even know the
Kahuna and the history I think not, most come to visit
and leave
The population changes more and more everyday a lot of people not going
to take the time to learn to speak the language of Hawaii
So just lighten up it just a ame
rocket
Maybe its to make a statement Look
the Kuhuna is here. why be so
tunnel visioned and maybe you are over reacting to get a rise
The younger generations of Haiwaii could care less and may even buy one.
Cultures and such have no meaning to young generations that will take
over
mel
In article <1074055...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> Um NO... look at the Dodge website and go to the link for concept cars
> and
> thats for this year :)
I don't have to go to the website. I seen pictures of this vehicle a few
years ago... looks like an updated version of the Woody wagon with a
Surfboard on top of it... If the concept is popular they could simply
release the Kahuna as a full production model or apply the name to
another Chrysler made vehicle and offer a similar package... a Dodge
Durango Kahuna package option or a Chrysler PT Cruiser Kahuna edition.
It wouldn't take much of an effort for Chrysler to so designate one of
their current models and offer a Kahuna package... I think it would be
cool.
FabulousDisneyBabe.com
>a new american car has nothing whatsoever to do with an Ancient
>Hawaiian sacred tradition.
>And in some people's estimation, the word "kahuna" should not be
>affixed to a car.
>This Dodge kahuna is getting alotta publicity. Doesn't matter if you
>have not seen it;
>it's in magazines, TV news shows, editorials and newspapers.
>This promulgates misuse and disrespect of the word. Trying to bring
>attention to, and correcting this is never a waste of time.
How would they feel about a Toyota Pope, Chevrolet Pastor, Volkswagen Priest?
Fab
ROY AND STANLEY ARE RIGHT!!!
http://www.fabulousdisneybabe.com
Disgruntled Imagineer, fabulous, Stanley and Roy are Right shirts:
http://www.cafeshops.com/fabdisbabe
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074064...@news.lava.net...
Well I guess some Americans need to learn something. Once again here
goes...
please try to grasp it:
Lana
"rocket" <nor...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1074057...@news.lava.net...
>
> If you feel this way why do you not forbid white people to come to
> islands They are the ones supporting your islands
They are? By the way it should be noted that once the Nation of Hawai'i
is
recognized by the US then you can bet that many Hawaiians will kick out
white people. Thats what people fear. Will it happen? No. Some people
like
to lie, cheat, and steal. Thats why.
> You want it both ways, Hawaiians are leaving so whats the big deal,
> They are coming to mainland for jobs so where do you draw the lines
I want it both ways? Uh NO. Im an American and a citizen of the Nation
of
Hawai'i. Proud and happy to be both. Some people dont get it. Perhaps
its
YOU who needs to try to comprehend what some of us are trying to say :)
Do
you hear us? or are you hearing the voices in YOUR head?
Lana
"Kalani M." <mamo...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1074052...@news.lava.net...
> The fact is, when there is someone who speaks up, everyone else says
> "what's the big deal".
Also if it wasnt such a big deal why are so many people responding to
the
people who think its a big deal? :)
mel
In article <1074146...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> There are different types of kahuna:
>
> kauka ha'iha'i iwi - bone setter
> lomilomi - massage expert
> la'au lapa'au - herb doctor
(snipped)
None of those names sound commercial enough to be used on a high profile
product such as a truck. Don't worry about this kind of stuff.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074222...@news.lava.net...
Telling me not to worry about this kind of stuff is not a good idea. I dont
have high blood pressure so its not a burden to me. Update: So far its up to
57 names. Yay!
Kalani M.
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message=20=
news:<1074146...@news.lava.net>...
Because of what I just said. People like to complain it's Hawaiians
complaining and will use the "We're all Americans" number, but when we
use it and throw it back in their face, they complain about us
complaining b/c they know that they can't really argue against our
claims, at least in a solid form. Just "it's no big deal" is the best
they can come up with. Look at the examples I gave w/ the meanings
behind it, and yet everyone talks about "no big deal". Shows much
about one's education.
rocket
I am not hearing voices in my head I read the posts and from what I
gather Culture of Hawaii is being forgotten, a few try to keep it
alive, the world is changing and the population is changing everyday,
we are getting so many people intermixed races any more how do you know
what the identities of a culture is?
Different people of different cultures marry have children so what
that's life.
Changing everyday your own family changes we are not like a pedigree
lineage any more. Stay within your own
culture of people.
I find it rather amusing when I read the posts that the Hawaiian Culture
is the only one in the world. When in reality it is mixture of people.
So they are still wonderful people anyway.
There are many cultures that have been forgotten, Hawiaan is no
different nor is it no one.
The Islands will soon be overcome by white as you say and their money.
that's the way it is.
To survive you relocate the mainland has different cultures as they
come here and establish their own heritage. Adapt is what we do
Kalani M.
nor...@webtv.net (rocket) wrote in message
news:<1074319...@news.lava.net>...
>
> Changing everyday your own family changes we are not like a pedigree
> lineage any more. Stay within your own
> culture of people.
>
> I find it rather amusing when I read the posts that the Hawaiian Culture
> is the only one in the world. When in reality it is mixture of people.
> So they are still wonderful people anyway.
What ever gave you the impression that the Hawaiian culture is the
only one in the world? I guess you live in Hawaii and only hear about
"the culture"? Where I live, I hear of Chinese culture, black
culture, mexican, salvadorian, cuban, ARMENIAN (I live in a
predominantly Armenian neighborhood), Persian (lots of Persian
businesses in my area), Peruvian, Korean, Lithuanian (church not too
far from where I live), Filipino and Japanese. Vietnamese people are
farther away from me, but I hear about them too.
I find it rather odd that you ONLY read the posts that the Hawaiian
culture is the only one in the world b/c all I've been reading it
never said that. Please copy & paste for me those posts, I might have
actually missed them. Thanks!
>
> There are many cultures that have been forgotten, Hawiaan is no
> different nor is it no one.
Hmm, ok help me understand if it has been forgotten, why is it so
prevalent around the world? On top of that, you just contradicted
yourself with the above statement about being the only one in
existence, yet you said the Hawn. culture is no diff. that it has been
forgotten.
>
> The Islands will soon be overcome by white as you say and their money.
> that's the way it is.
>
> To survive you relocate the mainland has different cultures as they
> come here and establish their own heritage. Adapt is what we do
We meaning who exactly? How have YOU personally adapted? I have, and
I'm Hawaiian. I can tell you're not aware of the exodous of
Hawaiians, to the places they've migrated to, etc. Have you heard of
the French and their language? They have done something to preserve
their language, but I can tell you didn't know that. With the
Hawaiian language, it was the same thing. They've done something over
20 yrs. ago to preserve that. We (or more specifally John Book) are
doing something to preserve what we can, no matter what. Hence the
petition. It all starts with awareness since most people including
Hawaiians of today have no knowledge of the sacredness of the language
and how valuable the spoken word was/is.
mel
In article <1074228...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> Telling me not to worry about this kind of stuff is not a good idea. I
> dont
> have high blood pressure so its not a burden to me. Update: So far its
> up to
> 57 names. Yay!
The population of the United States is like around 250 million
people....
Lana
"rocket" <nor...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1074319...@news.lava.net...
>
> I am not hearing voices in my head I read the posts
I know.. I as joking. I do have a sense of humor you know :)
> and from what I
> gather Culture of Hawaii is being forgotten,
It is? I see something different. I see the younger mixed bred Hawaiians
clinging on their Hawaiian in their koko and in their 'iwi.
> a few try to keep it
> alive, the world is changing and the population is changing everyday,
> we are getting so many people intermixed races any more how do you
> know
> what the identities of a culture is?
Good question but we are a product of our past and I dont know about
you but
each of us decides how to live our lives. Some of us choose to pay
respect
to our ancestors whether they be Hawaiian, Cantonese, or English. For
many... its not about being Hawaiian. Its also about doing the right
thing
and living a righteous life as a HUMAN.. being.
> Different people of different cultures marry have children so what
> that's life.
There is no doubt about that as I am a product of four ethnicities but
some
of us cant/wont/dont discount the effect that colonialism and theft has
had
on us. Its unrealistic to think and/or to believe that all of us have
had a
great life because each of us has our own struggles. Specifically,
Hawaiians
are struggling to survive but thats not to say that we arent surviving
because we are and many of us have adapted. Look at how many Hawaiians
speak, read, and write English. Thats a great example. Who would have
thought that the very language that was taught to us would be used
against
those who taught us? Who would have thought that we would use the
American
laws against those who want to violate our civil rights? The Hawaiian
ways... is truly fascinating. Also it should be noted that Hawai'i is
partly
why you are here in this newsgroup.
> Changing everyday your own family changes we are not like a pedigree
> lineage any more. Stay within your own
> culture of people.
>
> I find it rather amusing when I read the posts that the Hawaiian
> Culture
> is the only one in the world. When in reality it is mixture of
> people.
> So they are still wonderful people anyway.
What gave you the idea that the Hawaiian culture is the only one in the
world? Thats making a huge leap in concluding since
many of us Hawaiians are mixed breeds. Personally I have Hawaiian,
English,
Cantonese, and Portuguese so you need not tell people like me that
Hawaiian
culture is the only one in the world *LOL*
> There are many cultures that have been forgotten, Hawiaan is no
> different nor is it no one.
>
> The Islands will soon be overcome by white as you say and their
> money.
> that's the way it is.
Im not sure if anyone has read David Malo's description of the white
tide.
Perhaps there is a Hawaiian tide? Its very premature to think that the
white
people will swallow us as there is already evidence that some Hawaiians
are
swallowing white people. Granted there will always be predators and
prey but
eventually the predators become the prey. Thats life.
> To survive you relocate the mainland has different cultures as they
> come here and establish their own heritage. Adapt is what we do
Adapt on whose standards though? Languages are being lost. Native birds
are
being lost. On a human level I wouldnt want any one of them to be
lost...
FOREVER. Also it should be noted that Hawaiians are part of the culture
that
so many have stated yet many view Hawaiians as a cancer to the islands.
Some
people need to take a look at the Big Picture and try not to be so
ethnocentric about it *LOL*
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074359...@news.lava.net...
> The population of the United States is like around 250 million
> people....
I know but when the civil rights amendment came up for a vote the
minority
was outnumbered by the majority yet they did the right thing. Its the
right
thing not to name a car after a religious person in the Hawaiian
culture. Do
people do the right thing anymore? *LOL*
rocket
Lana, what a nice reply I appreciate your kindness in your remarks.
They are all valid ones.
What is so sad it that the Hawaiian Islands or any tropical Island
becomes over run with non native people , therefore the demand for the
land and business opportunities take away the land from the local
people and make so they can not live in their own native land and live
with own culture.
If the weather changes the demand will not be so in demand. In the
meantime
if the economy really picks up the demand for services and more condo
and homes sites will be needed as the income of people will be able to
travel..
They drive the land up in price, but do not live there all the time as
the job market is not such .
Its a shame people have to be forced to make changes in their
surroundings due to others as you might say invasion of their home
land.
People from the mainland are from all different countries
The mainland is getting filled with so many different countries until we
have all sorts of cultures being formed in communities they live in as
they desire to keep their heritage alive.
Who is to say what the future holds for Island living. The weather
is the most
driving force if that ever changes noting is written in stone.
The natural resources can only support a population for so long. Then
what.
Water and food and health is what important. Lot of people are being
affected now. Kauai and others homeless is getting worse. Even on
the mainland its a problem. Its worse I would think on small Islands.
Preserve your culture and cherish it. The different cultures of the
world is what makes the world special.
rocket
Right we get the right to pay taxes and more taxes
Our welfare system is driving the budget more in debt.
I do \see the prices of homes and land so overpriced you can see what
its all about making money. That is t he bottom line.
I do not think Dodge named one of its vehicles to offensive I do not
see it that way, I may be missing something,
Is it any different then naming a child Sorel that is a girl I know
someone I think that is terrible I think of a Horse
when I see that name.
I think overreacting is reading something that is not intended. It
makes waves
I guess that is what people like problems
We have schools, dams, parks named after Indian Chiefs its more of a
tribute
and honor . Oh well to each his own
mel
In article <1074393...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> "mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1074359...@news.lava.net...
>
> > The population of the United States is like around 250 million
> > people....
>
>
> I know but when the civil rights amendment came up for a vote the
> minority
> was outnumbered by the majority yet they did the right thing.
This has nothing to do with civil rights. It is only marketing.
Dodge/Chrysler like you have their free speech rights to name a product
anything they want to. You have the right to go ahead and support the
petition, but the bottom line is that none of this nor this ongoing
thread is going to sway Dodge one way or another. The bottom line is the
NUMBERS... as to whether or not Dodge wants to put this vehicle into
commercial production. The prototype is already named. No one from the
outside can change that. Get over it.
Judy
mel wrote:
> This has nothing to do with civil rights. It is only marketing.
> Dodge/Chrysler like you have their free speech rights to name a product
> anything they want to. You have the right to go ahead and support the
> petition, but the bottom line is that none of this nor this ongoing
> thread is going to sway Dodge one way or another. The bottom line is
> the
> NUMBERS... as to whether or not Dodge wants to put this vehicle into
> commercial production. The prototype is already named. No one from the
> outside can change that. Get over it.
>
Agree about the effectiveness of this particular protest, but I do
remember one in the not too distant past (5 years?) where a model name
was changed because the manufacturer learned that the meaning of the
Hawaiian word they'd latched onto was inappropriate. My memory is dim,
but I want to say it was a Chevy truck that they were going to call
Mahalo. If not it was something equally goofy. (Dodge Opala...something
la'dat.) Got a feeling they won't be giving up on Kahuna, though.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074450...@news.lava.net...
> This has nothing to do with civil rights.
Do you even know what civil rights are?
> It is only marketing.
No kidding and it violates our religious beliefs.
> Dodge/Chrysler like you have their free speech rights to name a product
> anything they want to. You have the right to go ahead and support the
> petition, but the bottom line is that none of this nor this ongoing
> thread is going to sway Dodge one way or another. The bottom line is
> the
> NUMBERS... as to whether or not Dodge wants to put this vehicle into
> commercial production. The prototype is already named. No one from the
> outside can change that.
>>> Get over it.
Your last sentence epitomizes how many of the 78% or so white people in
this
country treat those on the 22%. That is very racist against Hawaiians.
Also
if you want people to get over it then why bother posting in response to
this since its obvious that you think its trivial.
Phil Borger
Judy wrote
> Agree about the effectiveness of this particular protest, but I do
> remember one in the not too distant past (5 years?) where a model name
> was changed because the manufacturer learned that the meaning of the
> Hawaiian word they'd latched onto was inappropriate.
Maybe it would help the advertising people to try a new dodge if they
knew a
common definition of "ka huna". Quoting Pukui:
"minute particle, grain, crumb, speck, tiny bit, scrap, minutia". (
"hidden secret" is the Number 2 meaning.) Maybe they'd prefer "kahi
huna"
("nakedness").
so it's an ad more likely to subtract.
Oh well! Maybe these thoughts are huna to the maluhi.
FabulousDisneyBabe.com
>Your last sentence epitomizes how many of the 78% or so white people in
>this
>country treat those on the 22%.
I'd like to think that it's actually a rude, loud, stupid minority of haoles
that treat people of other races differently than anyone else.
Kalani M.
nor...@webtv.net (rocket) wrote in message=20
news:<1074413...@news.lava.net>...
> I do not think Dodge named one of its vehicles to offensive I do not
> see it that way, I may be missing something,
> Is it any different then naming a child Sorel that is a girl I know
> someone I think that is terrible I think of a Horse
> when I see that name.
I guess you never read what I wrote. Dodge didn't do it to be
offensive. The point is, research was not done into the meaning of
the name. Would I like China to be naming a produce Vaginitis or
something? No, I wouldn't!
>
> I think overreacting is reading something that is not intended.
No over reaction, just misinterpreting what we're saying. The main
thing, stop co-opting our culture. Enough is enough. Just b/c it has
been done in the past, should it continue?
> It
> makes waves
> I guess that is what people like problems
>
> We have schools, dams, parks named after Indian Chiefs its more of =
a
> tribute
> and honor . Oh well to each his own
Yeah, if they do it in honor. So you honestly think DODGE decided to
use "Kahuna" b/c they wanted to pay tribute to Hawaiians? To honor
Hawaiians? I think you're right...although I wasn't at the ceremony
where they told us that we were going to be honored.
Kalani M.
mel <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message=20
news:<1074450...@news.lava.net>...
> This has nothing to do with civil rights. It is only marketing.
> Dodge/Chrysler like you have their free speech rights to name a =
product
> anything they want to. You have the right to go ahead and support the
> petition, but the bottom line is that none of this nor this ongoing
> thread is going to sway Dodge one way or another.
Really? Wow, and I thought this petition was actually going to stop
it. Mel, we're not stupid! You do know, or perhaps you actually DO
NOT know that we're tired of this ongoing misuse of indigenous
peoples' culture. Coopting. So you think we should just keep our
mouths shut?
The bottom line is the
> NUMBERS... as to whether or not Dodge wants to put this vehicle into
> commercial production. The prototype is already named. No one from the
> outside can change that. Get over it.
Mel, if there's anyone who doesn't understand how marketing works,
then they really are stupid! Of course we know they won't change, but
the point is that they need to be made aware that what they did was
wrong. Will it change? It's like trying to stop the planes from
going into the WTC. Only thing is that there is someone yelling from
the ground to the plane "no, no, no...don't do it, you don't need to
go to that extreme to make your point, they won't listen, GET OVER
IT!"
mel
In article <1074503...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> if you want people to get over it then why bother posting in response
> to
> this since its obvious that you think its trivial.
I post wherever and whenever I feel like. It is not up to you to tell me
what to do, unless of course you become a moderator of this group. Then
you have more say as to what goes and what does not go here.
That said, I often wonder how come I have never seen picket lines of
protest outside the building that houses KUMU FM & AM as well as KAHA FM
radio station, the latter more popularly known as 'THE BIG KAHUNA.'
Nobody from the Hawaiian nation or whatever has done anything to keep
this radio station from using this monicker and playing classic rock
hits for nearly 2 years now.
You'd probably have an easier time bringing them down vs.
internationally known Chrysler/Dodge corporation.
mel
In article <1074503...@news.lava.net>,
Judy <homehu...@netscape.dot.net> wrote:
> Agree about the effectiveness of this particular protest, but I do
> remember one in the not too distant past (5 years?) where a model name
> was changed because the manufacturer learned that the meaning of the
> Hawaiian word they'd latched onto was inappropriate. My memory is dim,
> but I want to say it was a Chevy truck that they were going to call
> Mahalo. If not it was something equally goofy. (Dodge Opala...something
> la'dat.) Got a feeling they won't be giving up on Kahuna, though.
>
I think over the years the word "Kahuna" as wrong as it may have been
used, is associated with the surfing scene, most perpetuated by those
old 1960s movies starring Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello. My vague
recollection about those movies tell me that there probably was a
character in that series whose name or part of a name was "Kahuna." That
character was a surfer and not a priest/holy man figure.
That is one reason why the Dodge Kahuna looks like an old Woody wagon
with surfboards on top of it.
It's been named more so for the surfing image that the name conjures up
in modern times and western culture. Names and language change. People
can adapt. No word is sacred so that a change cannot be applied to it.
As for the Chevy truck, I don't recall anything like that, but I am sure
our enlightened legion of Hawaiian cultural experts will come up with
some kind of answer.
And speaking of "Mahalo", no one complained about misapprorpriating that
Hawaiian word to name a product... in this case "Mahalo Airlines."
Every word in any language can be used for a commercial purpose. I see
absolutely no problem with it.
Judy
mel wrote:
> It's been named more so for the surfing image that the name conjures up
> in modern times and western culture. Names and language change. People
> can adapt. No word is sacred so that a change cannot be applied to it.
I also don't see any outrage over the FABULOUS little Mapunapuna
sandwich/pizza spot called "The Big Kahuna." Oh, the pig sammiches are
to die for! (That's pretty nearly literal.)
Judy
Kalani M. wrote:
> Would I like China to be naming a produce Vaginitis or
> something? No, I wouldn't!
But how did you like their "CRUST" toothpaste? (Fo'real--got the swirl
and lettering just like Crest.)
Kalani M.
> In article <1074503...@news.lava.net>,
>
> Names and language change. People
> can adapt.
Of course, that is natural.
> No word is sacred so that a change cannot be applied to it.
>
Unfortunately this is where you are wrong as far as the Hawaiian
language goes. Go back and read my post with the link provided where
I explain "ha" and the importance of the spoken word and mana.
> As for the Chevy truck, I don't recall anything like that, but I am
> sure
> our enlightened legion of Hawaiian cultural experts will come up with
> some kind of answer.
>
I don't understand what you mean by this.
> And speaking of "Mahalo", no one complained about misapprorpriating
> that
> Hawaiian word to name a product... in this case "Mahalo Airlines."
>
What's wrong with Mahalo Airlines? Did I miss something? Or was
MAHALO AIRLINE a joke?
> Every word in any language can be used for a commercial purpose. I see
> absolutely no problem with it.
I feel like I'm talking to my 5 year old nephews constantly repeating
myself over and over and over again. Mel, did someone tell you there
was a law against it? Again, go read what I wrote about coopting
indigenous people's culture.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074585...@news.lava.net...
> I post wherever and whenever I feel like. It is not up to you to tell
> me
> what to do, unless of course you become a moderator of this group. Then
> you have more say as to what goes and what does not go here.
Yes. Likewise people who wanna protest have every right to do so.
> That said, I often wonder how come I have never seen picket lines of
> protest outside the building that houses KUMU FM & AM as well as KAHA
> FM
> radio station, the latter more popularly known as 'THE BIG KAHUNA.'
> Nobody from the Hawaiian nation or whatever has done anything to keep
> this radio station from using this monicker and playing classic rock
> hits for nearly 2 years now.
They havent? Do you have documented evidence that shows that no Hawaiian
protested?
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074585...@news.lava.net...
> As for the Chevy truck, I don't recall anything like that, but I am
> sure
> our enlightened legion of Hawaiian cultural experts will come up with
> some kind of answer.
Try hard not to be racist against Hawaiians.
> And speaking of "Mahalo", no one complained about misapprorpriating
> that
> Hawaiian word to name a product... in this case "Mahalo Airlines."
>
> Every word in any language can be used for a commercial purpose. I see
> absolutely no problem with it.
Yes YOU dont see a problem with it but there are others who do. Thats
what
makes American so damned great! :)
Kalani M.
>
>
>> if you want people to get over it then why bother posting in response
>> to
>> this since its obvious that you think its trivial.
>
>
> me
> what to do, unless of course you become a moderator of this group. Then
> you have more say as to what goes and what does not go here.
>
about that. She can say whatever she wants whenever wherever.
Maren Purves
FabulousDisneyBabe.com wrote:
> mel wrote:
>> Your last sentence epitomizes how many of the 78% or so white people
>> in
>> this
>> country treat those on the 22%.
>
> haoles
> that treat people of other races differently than anyone else.
and to add: the last time I looked Mel's last name wasn't exactly
Caucasian.
Maren
mel
In article <1074657...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> They havent? Do you have documented evidence that shows that no
> Hawaiian
> protested?
If they did it did not help. The only thing that will change KAHA FM
from changing is low ratings and lack of advertising. These things come
and go and sooner if not later, the station will someday change their
name... just like the Dodge.. if the vehicle is not produced than this
whole thread is moot. Sure they made one or 2 show cars (more than
likely 1) and if it has been out on the show circuit for a year or 2 and
nothing comes of it, then you guys don't have anything to worry about.
If they put it in production with the name... no big deal.
mel
In article <1074657...@news.lava.net>,
mamo...@netscape.net (Kalani M.) wrote:
>> No word is sacred so that a change cannot be applied to it.
>>
> Unfortunately this is where you are wrong as far as the Hawaiian
> language goes. Go back and read my post with the link provided where
> I explain "ha" and the importance of the spoken word and mana.
It is irrelevant. The context in which the Dodge truck name was used is
different from your "sacred" meaning. All they are selling here is an
image of carefree fun and surf.... nothing wrong with that.
It's a commercial product. That's all.
> What's wrong with Mahalo Airlines? Did I miss something? Or was
> MAHALO AIRLINE a joke?
There is nothing wrong with Mahalo Airlines except for the fact it no
longer exists. It is just another product that used a Hawaiian word for
its name... to make money. It did make some money before it went
bankrupt.
The Mahalo Airline joke by Rap Reiplinger is quite funny.
Nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with Dodge
naming a vehicle "Kahuna". It is just like "Mahalo" airlines.. a product
name. That's all it is.
> I feel like I'm talking to my 5 year old nephews constantly repeating
> myself over and over and over again. Mel, did someone tell you there
> was a law against it? Again, go read what I wrote about coopting
> indigenous people's culture.
Maybe if you guys feel so strongly about Dodge using the word Kahuna for
their car, you might want to bring on some litigation against them just
to force your point....
I don't see naming a car Kahuna to be any co-opt of anyone's culture. It
is just a flashy word that is also associated with surfing or pop
culture. Just like the "Big Kahuna" classic rock station. And the
"Kahuna" waterpark on the mainland.
mel
> Try hard not to be racist against Hawaiians.
You would be quite surprised if you saw me.
> Yes YOU dont see a problem with it but there are others who do. Thats
> what
> makes American so damned great! :)
Yep. This is the United States and we all have the right to share in our
differing opinions. Isn't this just a great country!
mel
> EXACTLY! Now put yourself in Lana's position about her comment to you
> about that. She can say whatever she wants whenever wherever.
Yes and your point is?????
rocket
Its free advertising for Hawaii PR
it referes to Hawaii so what is the big deal
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074703...@news.lava.net...
> There is nothing wrong with Mahalo Airlines except for the fact it no
> longer exists. It is just another product that used a Hawaiian word for
> its name... to make money. It did make some money before it went
> bankrupt.
I use a Hawaiian word in my business but I would not use a Hawaiian name
sacreligiously. In this particular case its sacreligious to use
"Kahuna" on
a product. Its also sacreligious to many Hawaiians for a Samoan like the
Rock aka Duane Johnson to play King Kamehameha.
> Maybe if you guys feel so strongly about Dodge using the word Kahuna
> for
> their car, you might want to bring on some litigation against them just
> to force your point....
Oh yes... Hawaiians we should sue everyone and every entity that
violates
us, our culture, our religion, our land, etc. Good idea, mel.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074703...@news.lava.net...
> You would be quite surprised if you saw me.
I dont judge people based on looks and even if you are part Hawaiian its
irrelevant. Hawaiians can still be disrespectful to their own people
*LOL*
Seriously... how would your appearance matter? Unless of course you have
been discriminated against based on your race, color, creed, national
origin, religion, etc. Then I would be surprised... perhaps.
> Yep. This is the United States and we all have the right to share in
> our
> differing opinions. Isn't this just a great country!
I already stated that. Im a Republican here. Yay!
Lana
"Kalani M." <mamo...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1074657...@news.lava.net...
> EXACTLY! Now put yourself in Lana's position about her comment to you
> about that. She can say whatever she wants whenever wherever.
Um not exactly. As long as it follows the posting guidelines of this
newsgroup *LOL*
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074703...@news.lava.net...
>
> In article <1074657...@news.lava.net>,
> If they did it did not help.
So you state that no one grumbled and now youre saying that it didnt
help? I
highly doubt that no Hawaiian grumbled because many of us descend from
chiefs. We are warriors, you know. We're not the stereotypical Hawaiian
who
drinks beer and listens to Jawaiian music *LOL*
> The only thing that will change KAHA FM
> from changing is low ratings and lack of advertising. These things come
> and go and sooner if not later, the station will someday change their
> name... just like the Dodge.. if the vehicle is not produced than this
> whole thread is moot. Sure they made one or 2 show cars (more than
> likely 1) and if it has been out on the show circuit for a year or 2
> and
> nothing comes of it, then you guys don't have anything to worry about.
I have a business background and marketing matters alot. However so is
respect for other cultures other than the American culture.
> If they put it in production with the name... no big deal.
To YOU its not a big deal but to some it is. Thats obvious.
mel
In article <1074740...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> So you state that no one grumbled and now youre saying that it didnt
> help? I
> highly doubt that no Hawaiian grumbled because many of us descend from
> chiefs. We are warriors, you know. We're not the stereotypical Hawaiian
> who
> drinks beer and listens to Jawaiian music *LOL*
When KAHA FM became "The Big Kahuna", no one bothered to start an online
petition against the station or start a thread about the misuse of a
word in this very newsgroup.
There were no news articles appearing in the media about the masses
going to the station to force them to change the name. Nothing. Nada.
mel
> I dont judge people based on looks
Whatevers. People may say this but sometimes it is the opposite and they
don't realize it.
mel
> I use a Hawaiian word in my business but I would not use a Hawaiian name
> sacreligiously. In this particular case its sacreligious to use
> "Kahuna" on
> a product. Its also sacreligious to many Hawaiians for a Samoan like the
> Rock aka Duane Johnson to play King Kamehameha.
There is nothing wrong with "The Rock" to play the fabled king. I have
no problem with that either. He is a potential big box office draw and
could make himself and whatever studio he contracts with a lot of money.
I am sure people would be interested in this.
But then again, this is probably for another thread already.
> Oh yes... Hawaiians we should sue everyone and every entity that
> violates
> us, our culture, our religion, our land, etc. Good idea, mel.
Hey, on this topic some of you feel very strongly about it. It may be
your only recourse if you are serious about getting Dodge to change
their mind. I am only making a suggestion here.
Otherwise all this is, is a virtual discussion and a virtual petition
with no punch.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074789...@news.lava.net...
> There is nothing wrong with "The Rock" to play the fabled king. I have
> no problem with that either. He is a potential big box office draw and
> could make himself and whatever studio he contracts with a lot of
> money.
> I am sure people would be interested in this.
>
> But then again, this is probably for another thread already.
Yeah it is another thread but my point was that its sacreligious
perhaps not
to you but to others it is.
> Hey, on this topic some of you feel very strongly about it. It may be
> your only recourse if you are serious about getting Dodge to change
> their mind. I am only making a suggestion here.
Are you making a suggestion OR are you dictating to Hawaiians how they
should deal with it? Its the latter.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074789...@news.lava.net...
> Whatevers. People may say this but sometimes it is the opposite and
> they
> don't realize it.
Um no... perhaps for you but not everyone is like you.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074789...@news.lava.net...
>
> When KAHA FM became "The Big Kahuna", no one bothered to start an
> online
> petition against the station or start a thread about the misuse of a
> word in this very newsgroup.
>
> There were no news articles appearing in the media about the masses
> going to the station to force them to change the name. Nothing. Nada.
Were there many Hawaiians online? Look at how many alleged Hawaiians are
here: Robert, Kalani, myself, and perhaps loompia. Hawaiians online are
very
rare. Even at sites that hijack Hawaiian words to describe people of
part
Asian ancestry... there are perhaps one Hawaiian at most.
As far as the news media, there are little to no Hawaiians in power
and/or
who offer tools to Hawaiians so that their voice can be heard. For
example,
here in the newsgroup MANY Hawaiians are censored. This is very common
(LOL)
mel
In article <1074835...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> > There is nothing wrong with "The Rock" to play the fabled king.
> Yeah it is another thread but my point was that its sacreligious
> perhaps not to you but to others it is.
People have made noise about this already. It has kind of died down but
I am sure this topic will surface again (The Rock playing King
Kamehameha I)......
If The Rock decides not to do it, I am sure the movie company or
whomever wants to make a Kamehameha film will find someone else that
will. It would certainly be a good idea if they did get someone with
Hawaiian blood to do it... However if no one can be found, I find
absolutely no problem with someone else portraying the role. It is after
all only an acting role that an actor adopts.
> > Hey, on this topic some of you feel very strongly about it. It may be
> > your only recourse if you are serious about getting Dodge to change
> > their mind. I am only making a suggestion here.
>
> Are you making a suggestion OR are you dictating to Hawaiians how they
> should deal with it? Its the latter.
It's only a suggestion. Am I holding a gun to anyone's head about this?
No, this is only a newsgroup. No one is forcing anyone to do anything
here. No one is forcing you to read or even respond to any of these
messages. It's only a newsgroup.
mel
> > There were no news articles appearing in the media about the masses
> > going to the station to force them to change the name. Nothing. Nada.
>
> Were there many Hawaiians online?..... Even at sites that hijack Hawaiian
words to describe people of
> part
> Asian ancestry... there are perhaps one Hawaiian at most.
Yes there are. But when the "Big Kahuna" radio station started NO ONE
made a fuss about it here in SCH or any other site except perhaps for
those who liked the former "active rock" format that the station started
with called "Lava Rock".
> As far as the news media, there are little to no Hawaiians in power
> and/or
> who offer tools to Hawaiians so that their voice can be heard.
That is true. You have to go with what you got... online petitions, this
newsgroup, other newsgroups, the standard noisy protests, etc.
> here in the newsgroup MANY Hawaiians are censored. This is very common
> (LOL)
Can the newsgroup moderators state this for a fact?
mel
True but then everyone is different. No two people are EXACTLY alike.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074846...@news.lava.net...
> True but then everyone is different. No two people are EXACTLY alike.
Ummm I already know that.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074846...@news.lava.net...
>
> If The Rock decides not to do it, I am sure the movie company or
> whomever wants to make a Kamehameha film will find someone else that
> will. It would certainly be a good idea if they did get someone with
> Hawaiian blood to do it... However if no one can be found, I find
> absolutely no problem with someone else portraying the role. It is
> after
> all only an acting role that an actor adopts.
Yes and its based on non-fiction NOT fiction. Do you read much by the
way?
If so do you know the difference between fiction and NON-fiction?
> It's only a suggestion.
It looked like someone dictating to me.
> Am I holding a gun to anyone's head about this?
Of course not
> No, this is only a newsgroup. No one is forcing anyone to do anything
> here. No one is forcing you to read or even respond to any of these
> messages. It's only a newsgroup.
Okay so its only a newgroup which I gathered. Do you know what "news"
and
"group" mean? Unless of course you are a figment of everyones
imagination
then in that case I will start ignoring you.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074846...@news.lava.net...
> Yes there are. But when the "Big Kahuna" radio station started NO ONE
> made a fuss about it here in SCH or any other site except perhaps for
> those who liked the former "active rock" format that the station
> started
> with called "Lava Rock".
When was this and by the way the unofficial name of this newsgroup is
soc
culture haole. Look at how many Hawaiians are here! :) So of course many
haole people arent gonna grumble. Why should they if theyre not
Hawaiian :)
> That is true. You have to go with what you got... online petitions,
> this
> newsgroup, other newsgroups, the standard noisy protests, etc.
Exactly. We have to use whatever tools we can just as others do too.
Whats
so wrong with that anyway? If someone purple had a gripe I say more
power to
them if they wanna protest. In Hawaiian "Ku'e" is a good thing.
> Can the newsgroup moderators state this for a fact?
First rule is to deny deny deny and they have denied it in the past
*LOL*
mel
mel
In article <1074919...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> When was this and by the way the unofficial name of this newsgroup is
> soc
> culture haole. Look at how many Hawaiians are here! :) So of course many
> haole people arent gonna grumble. Why should they if theyre not
> Hawaiian :)
Generally speaking Hawaiians are usually a minority no matter where you
are.
> Exactly. We have to use whatever tools we can just as others do too.
> Whats
> so wrong with that anyway?
There is nothing wrong with anyone expressing their viewpoints but there
will always be someone who is going to respond with the opposite
viewpoint.
> > Can the newsgroup moderators state this for a fact?
>
> First rule is to deny deny deny and they have denied it in the past
> *LOL*
I don't recall any of the moderators stating this in public on any of
the message threads. Can you point out an example?
mel
> "mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1074846...@news.lava.net...
>>
>> If The Rock decides not to do it, I am sure the movie company or
>> whomever wants to make a Kamehameha film will find someone else that
>> will.
> Yes and its based on non-fiction NOT fiction. Do you read much by the
> way?
> If so do you know the difference between fiction and NON-fiction?
The movie company can do anything they want to with a film. They can
create a fictitious piece based on a true story. This happens all the
time... Recent examples include the movies "Pearl Harbor" and "Titanic."
Non-fiction vs. fiction? "Windows for Dummies" is non-fiction. "Romeo &
Juliet" is fiction. "Lord of the Rings" is fiction. "Guiness Book of
World Records" is non-fiction.
Bending the truth a little for the purpose of making a film entertaining
is called "artistic license."
>> It's only a suggestion.
>
> It looked like someone dictating to me.
That was your interpretation.
>> No, this is only a newsgroup.
> Okay so its only a newgroup which I gathered.
> I will start ignoring you.
Many postings to newsgroups are not really news at all.
You are the only one responding to the latest postings in this ongoing
thread. If you start ignoring me then we can save the moderators the
trouble of actually having to read these messages and posting them to
the group. We can save the public some bandwidth and noise.
You can stop at anytime you want to.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1074961...@news.lava.net...
> Generally speaking Hawaiians are usually a minority no matter where you
> are.
Not exactly. Some Hawaiians are part white and on the 2000 US Census we
identified ourselves as "white" so you never really know if Hawaiians
truly
are in the minority.
> There is nothing wrong with anyone expressing their viewpoints but
> there
> will always be someone who is going to respond with the opposite
> viewpoint.
I expect people to think and talk differently but its bothersome to
some of
us when there is such overt racism against Hawaiians.
> I don't recall any of the moderators stating this in public on any of
> the message threads. Can you point out an example?
How can I go back to old threads when they are expunged from the
server(s)?
FabulousDisneyBabe.com
> How can I go back to old threads when they are expunged from the
> server(s)?
>
Fab
ROY AND STANLEY ARE RIGHT!!!
http://www.fabulousdisneybabe.com
Disgruntled Imagineer, fabulous, Stanley and Roy are Right shirts:
http://www.cafeshops.com/fabdisbabe
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1075071...@news.lava.net...
> The movie company can do anything they want to with a film. They can
> create a fictitious piece based on a true story.
They can do whatever they want... yes. However there is a concept called
"blasphemy."
> This happens all the
> time... Recent examples include the movies "Pearl Harbor" and
> "Titanic."
And those were based on an actual KING like King Kamehameha? No.
> Non-fiction vs. fiction? "Windows for Dummies" is non-fiction. "Romeo &
> Juliet" is fiction. "Lord of the Rings" is fiction. "Guiness Book of
> World Records" is non-fiction.
>
> Bending the truth a little for the purpose of making a film
> entertaining
> is called "artistic license."
Yes and Kamehameha was a king.
> That was your interpretation.
Yes... and likewise Haole-wood's interpretation of our king is well
BLASPHEMOUS not to mention DISRESPECTFUL. Have to bold those words.
> Many postings to newsgroups are not really news at all.
Well your style is "news" to me
> You are the only one responding to the latest postings in this ongoing
> thread. If you start ignoring me then we can save the moderators the
> trouble of actually having to read these messages and posting them to
> the group. We can save the public some bandwidth and noise.
>
> You can stop at anytime you want to.
Stop what? Im responding because Im someone who likes accuracy with
people,
places, and things. Unless of course you are a haole man... then my
attraction to you would be due to you being haole. And no you need not
respond to that :)
mel
In article <1075081...@news.lava.net>,
discov...@aol.comstipated (FabulousDisneyBabe.com) wrote:
> > How can I go back to old threads when they are expunged from the
> > server(s)?
> >
>
> http://www.dejanews.com
Which probably defaults to news.google.com since google bought out
dejanews a few years ago.
mel
In article <1075071...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> "mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1074961...@news.lava.net...
>
> > Generally speaking Hawaiians are usually a minority no matter where you
> > are.
>
> Not exactly. Some Hawaiians are part white and on the 2000 US Census we
> identified ourselves as "white" so you never really know if Hawaiians
> truly
> are in the minority.
Then officially those who say they are white as reported on the census
are not truly Hawaiians.. in the strictest sense of the word. More so
pure Hawaiians as you probably know are a very tiny minority as a race
with most Hawaiians having intermixed through marriages and whatever
through the generations.
> How can I go back to old threads when they are expunged from the
> server(s)?
>
News at Google.com archives everything in usenet. Go to Google and hit
the Newsgroups link.
mel
In article <1075091...@news.lava.net>,
"Lana" <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> "mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1075071...@news.lava.net...
>
> > The movie company can do anything they want to with a film. They can
> > create a fictitious piece based on a true story.
>
> They can do whatever they want... yes. However there is a concept called
> "blasphemy."
If the Hollywood company wants to be accurate I am sure they will try.
However if marketing and producing a massive "hit" is the objective,
then they will take artistic license and bend the truth...
> > This happens all the
> > time... Recent examples include the movies "Pearl Harbor" and
> > "Titanic."
>
> And those were based on an actual KING like King Kamehameha? No.
Of course not, they were based on events. I am sure if someone makes a
King Kamehameha movie more than likely some of the characters if not the
King himself will be fictitious.... you can never tell for sure which
way a Hollywood production will go.
Blasphemy or not, if a film such as this makes big bucks at the box
office you can almost guarantee to see some firm crank out King
Kamehameha action figures and related merchandise. Made in the
Philippines of course! :-)
If the movie tanks big time, you will never have to worry about it since
no one will bother to see it as it is relegated to the halls of B-movie
infamy.
Since this is not made no one knows what for sure if anything will
happen.
> Yes and Kamehameha was a king.
And if marketed right, he could become an action figure.
He is already a statue in several places.
> Yes... and likewise Haole-wood's interpretation of our king is well
> BLASPHEMOUS not to mention DISRESPECTFUL. Have to bold those words.
If it has the potential to MAKE MONEY the film community doesn't care.
All they want to see is a good return on investment.
Ask Mel Gibson. He is coming out soon with a new film about Jesus Christ
that has all kinds of people up in arms. The more controversy the more
interested people are in the film......
> > Many postings to newsgroups are not really news at all.
>
> Well your style is "news" to me
Whatevers....
To me it is mostly my opinion. There is a difference between "news" and
an "opinion".
> Stop what? Im responding because Im someone who likes accuracy with
> people,
> places, and things.
Perhaps you should go after the movie companies and Chrysler/Dodge
instead of me. I have nothing to gain from either venture... I have
nothing to gain from naming a vehicle "Kahuna" or making a movie about
King Kamehameha...
All I am is just expressing an opinion, taking up space on SCH and
usenet and contributing more to the internet bloat of junk information
and opinion.
Hope we are all having fun here! :-)
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1075099...@news.lava.net...
> Then officially those who say they are white as reported on the census
> are not truly Hawaiians.. in the strictest sense of the word.
Not really... because there is no such thing as "blood quantum" with
Hawaiians. However since many of us are mixed especially haole we do use
fractions. I know that I do but with other Hawaiians when I say Im Hawaiian
I never say a percentage or fraction because they dont divide people into
fractions :)
> More so
> pure Hawaiians as you probably know are a very tiny minority as a race
> with most Hawaiians having intermixed through marriages and whatever
> through the generations.
There are still pure Hawaiians left but yes they do marry other races and
have been for a long time.
> News at Google.com archives everything in usenet. Go to Google and hit
> the Newsgroups link.
That will take me a long time to look up the old threads but when I have
time I'll do searches then post it here just so that I can be censored
again.
Lana
"mel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1075099...@news.lava.net...
> If the Hollywood company wants to be accurate I am sure they will try.
> However if marketing and producing a massive "hit" is the objective,
> then they will take artistic license and bend the truth...
I dont/wont deny that since this is America. However there comes a time when
we as Americans dont want to stop being hypocritical. For example, saying
that every man is equal then creating a movie about our king is well
blasphemous to some of us Hawaiians.
> Of course not, they were based on events. I am sure if someone makes a
> King Kamehameha movie more than likely some of the characters if not the
> King himself will be fictitious.... you can never tell for sure which
> way a Hollywood production will go.
Well events are significantly different from a person albeit a KING....
> Blasphemy or not, if a film such as this makes big bucks at the box
> office you can almost guarantee to see some firm crank out King
> Kamehameha action figures and related merchandise. Made in the
> Philippines of course! :-)
You do have a point. In fact when I buy some items at local craft shops Im
not surprised when it says "Made in the Philippines" *LOL*
> If the movie tanks big time, you will never have to worry about it since
> no one will bother to see it as it is relegated to the halls of B-movie
> infamy.
> Since this is not made no one knows what for sure if anything will
> happen.
I believe the movie is already being filmed if not ready to be released but
it only goes to show you how many people dont ask Hawaiians how we feel
*LOL*
> And if marketed right, he could become an action figure.
Which is blasphemous.
> He is already a statue in several places.
Yes and these statues symbolize the respect for the man who united the
islands.
> If it has the potential to MAKE MONEY the film community doesn't care.
> All they want to see is a good return on investment.
I know... Im in business so I can understand that people want to make money
but there should be some respect for other peoples cultures.
> Ask Mel Gibson. He is coming out soon with a new film about Jesus Christ
> that has all kinds of people up in arms. The more controversy the more
> interested people are in the film......
True
> Whatevers....
>
> To me it is mostly my opinion. There is a difference between "news" and
> an "opinion".
Without an opinion there would be no news. I mean in Hawai'i reporters
wouldnt/couldnt report the news if they didnt have an opinion about the
people places or things. They wouldnt have anything to talk about. Likewise
here if people didnt have opinions then there wouldnt be any posts.
> Perhaps you should go after the movie companies and Chrysler/Dodge
> instead of me. I have nothing to gain from either venture... I have
> nothing to gain from naming a vehicle "Kahuna" or making a movie about
> King Kamehameha...
Well I dont/wont buy any Dodges.
> All I am is just expressing an opinion, taking up space on SCH and
> usenet and contributing more to the internet bloat of junk information
> and opinion.
>
> Hope we are all having fun here! :-)
Yeah
Gerard Fryer
In article <1075134...@news.lava.net>, Lana
<lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> For example, saying
> that every man is equal then creating a movie about our king is well
> blasphemous to some of us Hawaiians.
I'm missing something here. I thought Kamehameha was a king, not a god.
Maybe I need an English-Newspeak dictionary to put next to Pukui &
Elbert...
Gerard Fryer
In article <1075175...@news.lava.net>, Gerard Fryer
<ger...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Apologies, Lana. I can't believe I posted that. I was just being a
smart aleck.
mel
> wouldnt/couldnt report the news if they didnt have an opinion about the
> people places or things. They wouldnt have anything to talk about. Likewise
> here if people didnt have opinions then there wouldnt be any posts.
Yep. Usenet has a long history of varied and very colorful opinions.
> Well I dont/wont buy any Dodges.
Never owned one myself.
> > Hope we are all having fun here! :-)
>
> Yeah
Good.
mel
> Not really... because there is no such thing as "blood quantum" with
> Hawaiians.
And that.. is a topic for another thread.
> There are still pure Hawaiians left but yes they do marry other races and
> have been for a long time.
Yep. I know some.
> > News at Google.com archives everything in usenet. Go to Google and hit
> > the Newsgroups link.
>
> That will take me a long time to look up the old threads but when I have
> time I'll do searches then post it here just so that I can be censored
> again.
It may not be worth the time and effort.
Lana
"Gerard Fryer" <ger...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1075175...@news.lava.net...
>
> In article <1075134...@news.lava.net>, Lana
> <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For example, saying
> > that every man is equal then creating a movie about our king is well
> > blasphemous to some of us Hawaiians.
>
> I'm missing something here. I thought Kamehameha was a king, not a god.
> Maybe I need an English-Newspeak dictionary to put next to Pukui &
> Elbert...
blasphemy:
1. the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
2. the act of claiming the attributes or deity
3. IRREVERENCE TOWARD SOMETHING CONSIDERED SACRED OR INVIOLABLE
:)
Kimo
Gerard Fryer wrote
> I'm missing something here. I thought Kamehameha was a king, not a god.
> Maybe I need an English-Newspeak dictionary to put next to Pukui &
> Elbert...
yes, well, there are many things regarding the Hawaiian culture that
will perennially be missed by many.
and not that it matters to these 'many', but..
Many alii nui were considered very close to being gods.
Kalani M.
Gerard Fryer <ger...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message=20
news:<1075175...@news.lava.net>...
> In article <1075134...@news.lava.net>, Lana
> <lanaic...@OHSOYUMMYWITHOUTSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For example, saying
>> that every man is equal then creating a movie about our king is well
>> blasphemous to some of us Hawaiians.
>
god.
> Maybe I need an English-Newspeak dictionary to put next to Pukui &
> Elbert...
Actually, Kamehameha like all the other chiefs were revered like gods.
This explains the different ranks each chief had. The higher the
rank, the more "god-like" they were. For example, the mother of
Liholiho (Kamehameha II) and Kauikeaouli (Kamehameha III), Keopuolani
had the highest tabu and was considered to be a god(ess). During the
time when she was an infant, there were if I remember correctly about
4 very high ranking chiefesses. Keopuolani, her mother Kekuiapoiwa
Liliha and half sister to Kamehameha, Kekuiapoiwa's mother Kalola and
Kalola's other daughter Kalaniakua. Keopulani's father Kiwalao also
had a very high tabu and revered like a god. He was the son of
Kalola.
The name "Kalani" (the heavenly one) was not used lightly among these
chiefs.
Kiwalao's other name - Kalanikauikeaouli
Kamehameha's father Keoua's other name - Kalanikupuapaikalaninui
Kalaniopuu
Kalaninuiiamamao
Kekaulike's other name - Kalanikuihonoikamoku
Keopuolani's other name - Kalanikauikaalaneo
Liholiho's other name - KalaninuikuaLIHOLIHOkekapu (and a few others
w/ Kalani in it)
Kalanikaumakaowakea
Kalanioumi
and a whole number of other chiefs with KALANI in their name.
Kalani M.
mel <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message=20
news:<1075099...@news.lava.net>...
> In article <1075091...@news.lava.net>,
> Of course not, they were based on events. I am sure if someone makes a
> King Kamehameha movie more than likely some of the characters if not=20=
> the
> King himself will be fictitious.... you can never tell for sure which
> way a Hollywood production will go.
>
> Blasphemy or not, if a film such as this makes big bucks at the box
> office you can almost guarantee to see some firm crank out King
> Kamehameha action figures and related merchandise. Made in the
> Philippines of course! :-)
>
LMAO Ok, for once you made me laugh! I never thought about all of
that, the merchandise. I can kiss my Kamehameha Halloween outfit
goodbye. I planned it back in 2000 of which I never went through
with...at least not yet. I should before the movie comes out. *L*
Gerard Fryer
In article <1075351...@news.lava.net>, Kalani M.
<mamo...@netscape.net> wrote:
> The name "Kalani" (the heavenly one) was not used lightly among these
> chiefs.
>
> Kiwalao's other name - Kalanikauikeaouli
> Kamehameha's father Keoua's other name - Kalanikupuapaikalaninui
Whoa. Keoua was Kamehameha's father? Could there have been more than
one Keoua? I'm not the scholar of Hawaiian history that I ought to be,
but I like to think I know a bit about the volcanoes. All the
volcanologic histories talk of a chief by the name of Keoua whose army
was on its way to do battle with Kamehameha in about 1790, I think to
stop Kamehameha's reunification of the Big Island after a disputed
succession. One of three divisions of Keoua's army was annihilated by a
phreatic (explosive) eruption of Kilauea as they passed from Hilo into
Ka'u. They were the ones who left those footprints in the ash on the
trail to Mauna Iki. Survivors in the other divisions talked of a rain
of hot ash and stones, but the main body of the army must have been
killed by something else since they were mummified but otherwise
uninjured. Probably they were overcome by a blisteringly hot wind,
perhaps a base surge from the eruption column. I read somewhere that
part of the Kamehameha mystique was the widespread belief that Pele was
his ally. Volcanologically, the event is important--it shows that
Kileaua can be really nasty. The eruption of 1790, the lesser explosive
eruption of 1924 (which only killed one person, and a haole at that)
and the several ash eruptions we now know occurred before 1790,
together show that Kileaua is one of the most dangerous volcanoes on
Earth.
If Kamehameha really had Pele on his side then I guess that makes him
close to a demigod, so my complaint about "blasphemy" truly had no
merit :-)