Vodun Songs
soutini....@mailexcite.com
Because of popular demand, here are a few extract from Vodun songs:
(Men kek bel pawol k'soti nan twa chante Vodou,)
- "...Zwazo nan bwa, jwe.... men minwit sonnen nan pye Verite a..."
- "...Jwe, jwe,jwe non, nou poko konnen mwen....Tshakou...Konpe Chyen, nou
poko konnen mwen..."
This one is my favorite one:
- "...Inosan, ou pa we mwen inosan e, jouda la yo k'ap pale kay nou mal...
...Voye pale yo pou mwen, pinga kite kay la tonbe pou tet medizan...malpalan
yo...
...Latibonit desann', ke'm pa sote....
...Mwen se Zakasya, mwen donnen nan branch mwen...
...Pinga kite kay la tonbe....pou tet medizan yo...
(first level translation upon request, but this is a Haitian board!)
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LA KAT47
>Subject: Vodun Songs<BR>
>From: soutini....@mailexcite.com<BR>
>Date: 5/19/98 8:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
<BR>
Soutini said regarding the songs in Kreyol:<BR>
>(first level translation upon request, but this is a Haitian board!)<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Awww have a heart Soutini......it will help me learn......<BR>
LA KAT
soutini....@mailexcite.com
Just for you La Kat
but remember what I said: "first level translation upon request...)
>> - "...Zwazo nan bwa, jwe.... men minwit sonnen nan pye Verite a..."
are at the foot of Truth". (this is a shanpwel song and this translation is
just first level and doesn't convey the idea)
> - "...Jwe, jwe,jwe non, nou poko konnen mwen....Tshakou...Konpe Chyen, nou
> poko konnen mwen..."
you don't know who I am..."
> This one is my favorite one:
> - "...Inosan, ou pa we mwen inosan e, jouda la yo k'ap pale kay nou mal...
> ...Voye pale yo pou mwen, pinga kite kay la tonbe pou tet medizan...malpalan
> yo...
> ...Latibonit desann', ke'm pa sote....
> ...Mwen se Zakasya, mwen donnen nan branch mwen...
> ...Pinga kite kay la tonbe....pou tet medizan yo...
house... Send someone to tell them on my behalf, not to let the house down
because of those bad mouthed one...
... The Artibonite river overflows, I remain calm...
... Here I'm, just an acacia tree, I reproduce in my own branch...
Don't let the house down because of the bad mouthed one..."
I'm sure that those translations are not very meaningfull to you but in
Creole, we have a saying that you probably know:
"Kreyol pale, Kreyol konpran" and this is just to say that everything in the
regular creole language as double meaning and that it is the priviledge of
the Creoles to fully understand what is meant. In Vodou there is always a
third meaning but this one is reserved to initiates. I am sure your Haitian
friends can tell you more about what I mean. The Creole language, Vodou are
our little treasure, may be it is why we are so misunderstood!
soutini
Racine125
Soutini writes to LAKAT:
>I'm sure that those translations are not very meaningfull to
> you but in Creole, we have a saying that you probably know:
>"Kreyol pale, Kreyol konpran"
Now why would you say that to her?
All you are getting at with your "first" and "second level"
translations is what is properly descibed as "literal translation"
and "interpretation". The first is a word for word translation, the
second tells you what those words signify and what they
refer to.
For example, here is a song and a literal translation, and then
an interpretation.
Papa Simbi Simbi Simbi Makaya,
Houngan pa Bondye, ou pa we?
M ilimine pou moun yo
M achete balen mwen, se pou m pale a pwen mwen,
M achte balen mwen, se pou m pale a djab mwen,
Papa Simbi Simbi Simbi Makaya,
Houngan pa Bondye, ou pa we?
M ilimine pou moun yo
English translation:
Papa Simbi Simbi Simbi Makaya,
A Houngan is not Good God, don't you see?
I illuminate for the people.
I bought my candle (literally 'whale', because candles were once
made of whale fat), it's for me to talk with my point,
I bought my candle, its for me to talk with my djab (Fr, diable)
Papa Simbi Simbi Simbi Makaya,
A Houngan is not Good God, don't you see?
I illuminate for the people.
Interpretation:
A person is calling to the lwa Simbi Makaya, alone and without
the aid of a Houngan. The person is making an 'illumination',
a ceremony which involves lighting a great many candles, and
praying, and other things. He is doing this "for the people" who
are* bothering* him, in other words, for his enemies, in order to
be strong against his enemies and overcome them, or be
protected against them. He has bought his candle to talk with
his 'point', his 'djab' (both terms for lwa, but also for entities which
may be somewhat less lofty than the lwa of the liturgical Rada, Gede, or even
Petro groups). The reason he has bought a candle
is because it is customary, when contacting a lwa, or an ancestor,
or praying to God, or doing almost any spiritual activity, to light
a candle.
Okay, that's one example. Name your favorite lwa and I'll
give you a song, if I can.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
LA KAT47
>Subject: Re: Vodun Songs<BR>
>From: soutini....@mailexcite.com<BR>
>Date: 5/19/98 3:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
Soutini said:<BR>
>Just for you La Kat<BR>
>but remember what I said: "first level translation upon request...)<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
A gracious thank you for that, Soutini! <BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Soutini again:
>"Kreyol pale, Kreyol konpran" and this is just to say that everything in
>regular creole language as double meaning and that it is the priviledge
>the Creoles to fully understand what is meant. In Vodou there is always a<BR>
>third meaning but this one is reserved to initiates. I am sure your
>friends can tell you more about what I mean. The Creole language, Vodou
>our little treasure, may be it is why we are so misunderstood!<BR>
>soutini<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Misunderstood, yes but on purpose! It may be that this is a way to speak
freely while remaining safe in an unsafe place. This double and triple meaning
serves well in a repressive climate but where the truth and plain speaking are
the norm and there is no danger, it can be a hindrance to intimate
relationships............just an unbiased observation! I did get a second and
maybe third level translation from my husband......both seem to be about the
hidden and dangerous power of the seemingly weak.......a warning to the
oppressors to be careful what they do lest the power be unleashed. I don't
know if this is true but it seems like it could be. Thanks for the lesson,
Soutini...;)<BR>
LA KAT
LA KAT47
>Subject: Re: Vodun Songs<BR>
>Date: 5/19/98 4:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
Racine invites:<BR>
>Okay, that's one example. Name your favorite lwa and I'll<BR>
>give you a song, if I can.<BR>
><BR>
>Mambo Racine Sans Bout<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
And I accept........please may I have a song about: Damballah, Erzulie, Ogoun
Feraille, and Ghede n'Ibo. Yes, I'm greedy. And thank you.<BR>
LA KAT
Racine125
LAKAT writes:
>And I accept........please may I have a song about:
>Damballah, Erzulie, Ogoun
>Feraille, and Ghede n'Ibo.
WOW! Okay... :-)
Dambala is imaged as a mute snake. He NEVER speaks,
he crawls on the ground, climbs trees without using his
hands, drinks milk and sucks raw eggs - just like a snake!
He is represented by lithographs of St. Patrick (because
there are snakes in the picture, and because St. Pat
has a long white beard - Dambala's ceremonial color
is white.
Here is a song:
Mape mande sa ka resevwa mwen
Mape mande sa ka resevwa mwen la
Mwen soti nan peyi nan Gine
Tou sele avek lwa nan tet mwen la
Mape mande sa ka resevwa mwen la
Pou moun isit O!
Pou swiv, ya pep pou swiv mwen la
A la ya pep pou swiv o,
Ppou swiv, ya pep pou swiv mwen la
A la ya pep pou swiv o,
Se mwen menm Dambala Wedo
E se mwen menm Ayida Wedo
Yo poko we
Kote m tounin koulev O!
English translation:
I am asking for what I might receive
I am asking for what I might recieve there
I come from a land in Guinea
All saddled with the lwa in my head
I am asking for what I might receive there
For the people here, oh!
To follow, yes people to follow me there,
There to follow me
To follow, yes people to follow me there
There to follow me
It is I, Dambala Wedo
And it is I, Ayida Wedo
They don't yet see
Where I turn into a snake.
Interpretation:
A person is suplicating the lwa. He or she is from Guinea
(ancestral Africa, NOT accessible by plane or boat)
already under the influence of a lwa which has mounted
(saddled) him or her. The person asks for whatever
the lwa can give to him or her, and the assembled
people. Dambala, and his rainbow wife Ayida Wedo
(from Whydah, Dahomey) say that the people have
not yet seen them become snakes (in other words,
they will shortly possess someone.)
XXXX693198
lakat,
<<Misunderstood, yes but on purpose! It may be that this is a way to speak
freely while remaining safe in an unsafe place. This double and triple meaning
serves well in a repressive climate but where the truth and plain speaking are
the norm and there is no danger, it can be a hindrance to intimate
relationships............just an unbiased observation! >>
If this is true then why do I keep double speaking here in the US? Come to
think of it, Bill Clinton is also good at these things! He must also be from
repressive... and unsafe place!
XXXX
LA KAT47
>Subject: Re: Vodun Songs<BR>
>Date: 5/21/98 5:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
XXXX said:
>If this is true then why do I keep double speaking here in the US? Come
>think of it, Bill Clinton is also good at these things! He must also be
>repressive... and unsafe place!<BR>
><BR>
>XXXX<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Wouldn't you consider the office of the President of the United States a
dangerous place to be?? The man can't do anything without someone making a
scandal out of it! But polital doublespeak is not the same as Haitian Creole
doublespeak, and you know it.......the motivations are totally
different.......and can't we talk about Haitians and Haiti on a Haitian
newsgroup??? Why is it you always have to bring the U.S. into it?<BR>
LA KAT
soutini....@mailexcite.com
In article <199805211213...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
>
> Hi LAKAT ! Just a few precisions!
>
> Dambala is imaged as a mute snake. He NEVER speaks,
> he crawls on the ground, climbs trees without using his
> hands, drinks milk and sucks raw eggs - just like a snake!
> He is represented by lithographs of St. Patrick (because
> there are snakes in the picture, and because St. Pat
> has a long white beard - Dambala's ceremonial color
> is white.
Generally, all Vodou Spirits (Loa) talk. Why would people keep honoring a
Loa "be be" (mute)? The Spirits tell us how to go about in our life, how to
solve problems, how to make a treatment, all Loa speak to the Vodou adepts.
>
> Here is a song:
> Mape mande sa ka resevwa mwen
> Mape mande sa ka resevwa mwen la
> Mwen soti nan peyi nan Gine
> Tou sele avek lwa nan tet mwen la
> Mape mande sa ka resevwa mwen la
> Pou moun isit O!
> Pou swiv, ya pep pou swiv mwen la
> A la ya pep pou swiv o,
> Ppou swiv, ya pep pou swiv mwen la
> A la ya pep pou swiv o,
> Se mwen menm Dambala Wedo
> E se mwen menm Ayida Wedo
> Yo poko we
> Kote m tounin koulev O!
This is a folkloric interpretation of two Vodou songs that has been put
together for pleasure and harmony. Its creator and interpreter was Jean
Coulanges.
In this first song, there are several contradictions. First the Spirit asks
who is ready to receive him, which means who is ready to be possessed by him?
Then, the Spirit becomes an initiate who tells how he came from Ginen (not
Gine) already initiated and states that he is not from the place ("pou moun
isit o", which in reality should be: "m pa moun isit o") which means he is a
Spirit. Those discrepancies may be just for the rhythm, just as the word
"avek" would be "ak" in Creole.
The second song in Vodou goes as follows:
Pouswiv, ya pe pouswiv mwen la a ("pouswiv" not "pou swiv") ("ya pe"
progressive form not "ya pep")
A la ya pe pouswiv o, (x2)
Se mwen mem Dambala Wedo,
Se mwen mem Gro Koulev Dagwe a la a
Yo poko we kote m tounen koulev o! ("tounen" not tounin)
In this song Danbala states how busy he is. Then he gives one of his praise
name and wonders if people are capable of accepting to view him as the Big
Snake of the Sky.
As can be seen, no word to word translation may be considered acceptable.
This is an African cultural expression, very different from is usually
understood in the Western World. Danbala sings through the mouth of the
singers. All Vodou initiates understand it that way. The correct translation
can only from a translation of ideas.
The melody of the folkloric song has its beauty but I doubt it will have the
life span of a Vodou song.
I have nothing against folkloric interpretation (Jean Coulanges sang this
song very well) and may be that is what you wanted. Yet, I think that the
distinction has to be made.
Racine125
>
Soutini misinforms the board:
>Generally, all Vodou Spirits (Loa) talk
Untrue, there are quite a few who are mute, including
Dambala, Gros Point, and Erzulie Dantor - this latter
is able to vocalize, but not to form words - she only
says "ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke."
>This is a folkloric interpretation of two Vodou songs
>that has been put together for pleasure and harmony.
> Its creator and interpreter was Jean Coulanges.
The songs are Vodou songs, therefore M. Coulanges
is not the "creator". He did a commercial interpretation
which became popular, and was often played on
Radio Nationale.
Other artists have actually originated new songs, almost
always Petro songs, which are now incorporated into
services.
>In this first song, there are several contradictions.
> First the Spirit asks who is ready to receive him, which
>means who is ready to be possessed by him?
>Then, the Spirit becomes an initiate who tells how he came
> from Ginen (not Gine) already initiated
No, no. (And by the way, you are the same person who
recently wrote that you don't care if you spell Creole
correctly or incorrectly.)
The person is saying that he or she is from Guinea (Gine)
and is already "saddled" with a lwa, NOT already
initiated.
>"pou moun isit o", which in reality should be: "m pa moun isit o" >which means
he is a Spirit.
No, no. If it were "m pa moun isit o", it would translate to,
"I am not a person from around here", NOT "I am a lwa".
>Se mwen mem Gro Koulev Dagwe a la a
This phrase does not occur in the song.
>In this song Danbala <<SNIP>> wonders if people
>are capable of accepting to view him as the Big Snake
> of the Sky.
D-a-m-b-a-l-a says NO SUCH THING! Why are you making
up stuff - LAKAT is trying to derive some knowledge of
Creole from this, remember?
dly...@nospam.cruzio.com
I raci...@aol.com (Racine125) said:
>>Generally, all Vodou Spirits (Loa) talk
>Untrue, there are quite a few who are mute, including
>Dambala, Gros Point, and Erzulie Dantor - this latter
>is able to vocalize, but not to form words - she only
>says "ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke."
I love a particular song about Ezili Dantor which
was sung to me by Telisean of St Marc.
Ezili Dantor, [ lend me your ] poulet nwa
....
Does anyone know the whole song?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Daudi, or dlyall {AT} cruzio DOT com
http://www2.cruzio.com/~dlyall/
Lavi pa Fasil
-----------------------------------------------------------
soutini....@mailexcite.com
In article <6k83v1$d...@enews4.newsguy.com>,
dly...@NOSPAM.cruzio.com wrote:
>
> I raci...@aol.com (Racine125) said:
>
> >>Generally, all Vodou Spirits (Loa) talk
>
> >Untrue, there are quite a few who are mute, including
> >Dambala, Gros Point, and Erzulie Dantor - this latter
> >is able to vocalize, but not to form words - she only
> >says "ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke-ke."
>
> I love a particular song about Ezili Dantor which
> was sung to me by Telisean of St Marc.
> Ezili Dantor, [ lend me your ] poulet nwa
> ...
Ezili Dan Petro
Wa prete m foula kou Lwa w la
Pou m al fe maji a mashe.
Se ou k mashe, se ou ki we.
Se ou k mashe, se ou ki we.
Ezili Dan Petro
Wa prete m foula kou Lwa w la
Pou m al fe maji a mashe.
That's the only song I can think of, some Hougan could replace "foula..."
with "poulet nwa" since Ezili Dan Petro is often perceived as Ezili Danto.
Are you speaking of Telisma in St Marc?
I hope this is satisfying to you!
soutini
>
> Does anyone know the whole song?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Daudi, or dlyall {AT} cruzio DOT com
> http://www2.cruzio.com/~dlyall/
> Lavi pa Fasil
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Racine125
Dlyall writes:
>Ezili Dantor, [ lend me your ] poulet nwa
>....
>Does anyone know the whole song?
Sure! I like this one too.
Ezili a, fanm Ti-Jan pwete m poule poul nwa la
Pou m fe maji a mache
Ezili a, fanm Ti-Jan pwete m poule poul nwa la
Pou m fe maji a mache
Se ou ki mache, se ou ki we o!
Se ou ki mache, se ou ki we o!
Ezili a, fanm Ti-Jan pwete m poule poul nwa la
Pou m fe maji a mache.
English translation:
Erzulie (Dantor), Ti-Jean's woman, lend me the
chicken, the black chicken there,
For me to make my magic walk,
Erzulie, Ti-Jean's woman, lend me the
chicken, the black chicken there,
For me to make my magic walk,
It's you who walks, it's you who sees, oh!
It's you who walks, it's you who sees, oh!
Erzulie, Ti-Jean's woman, lend me the
chicken, the black chicken there,
For me to make my magic walk.
Interpretation:
Erzulie Dantor is being supplicated by a person, who
wants to make a 'wanga', a magic spell. One of
Erzulie Dantor's husbands is the very important
Petro lwa, Ti-Jean Petro.
Dantor's sacrificial animal is a black female chicken.
Since, in that sense, black female chickens belong
to her, the person is asking Dantor to 'lend' him or her
a black chicken, so that he or she can sacrifice it while
making the wanga.
Here is another one:
Ezili fam Ti-Jan Metres kay la,
Ezili fam Ti-Jan Metres kay la,
Pa rele! Se pote Houngan nivo
Pa rele! Se ou pote wanga pi fo
Ezili fam Ti-Jan Metres kay la,
Paket mwen a tou mare.
English translation:
Erzulie (Dantor) Ti-Jean's woman, Mistress of the house,
Erzulie, Ti-Jean's woman, Mistress of the house,
Don't yell! It's you who carries the new Houngan,
Don't yell! It's you who carries the stronger 'wanga'.,
Erzulie, Ti-Jean's woman, Mistress of the house,
My packet is all wrapped up.
Interpretation:
This is a praise song for Dantor, largely self-explanatory.
She is considered to be the patronness of new Houngans
and a very strong magician. A 'packet' is a magical
device, usually consisting of herbs and other things wrapped
in a cloth. The ingredients and methods of making 'packets'
are secrets owned by Houngans and Mambos.
Racine125
Soutini writes:
>Ezili Dan Petro
>Wa prete m foula kou Lwa w la
>Pou m al fe maji a mashe.
LOL! Soutini, translate 'foula kou lwa'. WhooooEEEE!
By the way, there is no 'sh' in Creole orthography, that
sound is always written 'ch'.
There is no "Erzulie Dan Petro" distinct from other Erzulie
Dantors, these are all *praise names* and *aspects*. Your
lack of experience is showing again.
soutini....@mailexcite.com
In article <199805241855...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
>
>
<There is no "Erzulie Dan Petro" distinct from other Erzulie
<Dantors, these are all *praise names* and *aspects*. Your
<lack of experience is showing again.
This is the song I gave and the changes:
Ezili Dan PetroWa prete m foula kou Lwa w la
Pou m al fe maji a mashe.
<Ezili a, fanm Ti-Jan pwete m poule poul nwa la
<Pou m fe maji a mache
Se ou k mashe, se ou ki we.
<Se ou k mashe, se ou ki we o!
Ezili Dan PetroWa prete m foula kou Lwa w la
Pou m al fe maji a mashe.
<Ezili a, fanm Ti-Jan pwete m poule poul nwa la
<Pou m fe maji a mache.
I wrote: "That's the only song I can think of, some Hougan could replace
"foula..."with "poulet nwa" since Ezili Dan Petro is often perceived as Ezili
Danto."
I don't see much difference in those two songs, except that mine is adressed
to Ezili Dan Petro and the other is adressed to Danto...
<There is no "Erzulie Dan Petro" distinct from other ErzulieDantors, these
are all *praise
<names* and *aspects*. Yourlack of experience is showing again.
Signed Racine125.
What is an *aspect*, by the way?
Everyone practices his art as he/she knows how.
In the tradition which was handed to me, the making of the Pake Kongo is a
Petro ceremony which belongs to the Ginen rite. Ezili Dan Petro is the one
invoqued since she is the one associated with the leaves (as the following
song attests):
Ezili Dan Petro
Fanm Zila a Tata Mayombe
Neges n Doki Mwa
Ma rele Fanm sa a.
Li se fanm pa mwen
Ma pe rele Mambo Ezili o,
Men kouve w pare;
Seremoni m bel, men kouve w pare.
My lack of experience? I am in Haiti twice, sometimes three times a year
making initiations!
Racine125
Soutini babbles:
>This is the song I gave and the changes:
>Ezili Dan PetroWa prete m foula kou Lwa w la
TRANSLATE 'foula kou lwa w la'. I bet you can't.
>Signed Racine125.
No, signed "Mambo Racine Sans Bout. I tell you again, stop
cutting and pasting over my sig line. Do not change my
signature.
>What is an *aspect*, by the way?
Oh gosh, soutini, even Christians have 'aspects' of God.
For example, some aspects of Jesus Christ include the
Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the Lord of the Sabbath,
and so on. Get it?
>In the tradition which was handed to me, the making of the
>Pake Kongo is a Petro ceremony which belongs to the
> Ginen rite.
Well, that is messed up then. Packets are tied up in a Petro
ceremony for sure, but paket Kongo is just one kind.
Petro and Rada are two different parts of a full Vodou
ceremony.
You make these assertions, and give these songs and lists
and stuff, in an effort to mystify people. I, on the other
hand *clarify* the meanings of the songs with accurate
transcriptions, translations, and interpretations.
> (as the following song attests):
TRANSLATE the song, if you are going to claim it. You
don't even know what you are saying.
>My lack of experience? I am in Haiti twice, sometimes three
> times a year making initiations!
My sympathies to your initiates, if you don't know your stuff
any better than this!
LOL!
soutini....@mailexcite.com
>
"...Marasa Ginen o, adje!
Marasa Ginen o, adje!
Denye Marasa Ginen, Ginen montre kreyol.
kreyol di li konnen, sa ki sot o?..."
>
"...Mambo Ayizan konplo!
M poko rive pou mwen pale pawol-la
Jouda yo manje reson mwen.
Sa mwen we la-a mwen pasa pale..."
"...Manman tanbou-a rele Selide,
O Jouala, Pawol la nan ke m..."
"...Tout fey se fey,
Twa pawol pi bon.
Tout fey se fey,
Twa pawol ki bon.
Simbi andezo ki soti Labasa
Ak Twa Dosou Marasa'l
Sharite lap mande an,
Se pou lang yo..."
In order not to "mystify'": no "translation", no "accurate transcription",
"no interpretation"... Aren't we on a Haitian board?
Racine125
Soutini tries to get over:
>In order not to "mystify'": no "translation", no "accurate
>transcription","no interpretation"... Aren't we on a
>Haitian board?
Because you CAN'T, that's why. Remember that the
stated purpose of this thread was to indulge LAKATs
request for some songs *and translations* to help her
improve her Creole! This is not a "Haitian board", this
is a Usenet newsgroup accessible world wide.
Furthermore you misquote the songs and song fragments
you give. You talk about "second level meanings" because
you always like to claim that you know something that
nobody else does, as if this places you above question.
Foolishness! Translate the songs and explain what they
mean, just like I do. Or else don't claim to know.
Racine125
LAKAT had a list of lwa, and one of them was Gede Nibo.
Here is a song which is more like a folk song, but it is
sung in ceremonies:
Papa Gede bel gason
Gede Nibo bel gason
Li abiye tou de blan
Pou l monte o Pale
Le l abiye tou de blan
Li sanble yon depite
Le l abiye tou de nwa
Li sanble yon senate
Whoi Gede, whoi Gede Nibo,
Whoi Gede, whoi Gede Nibo.
English translation:
Papa Gede is a handsome man,
Gede Nibo is a handsome man,
He dresses all in white
To go up to the Palace
When he dresses all in white
He looks like a Deputy
When he dresses all in black
He looks like a Senator
Whoi Gede, whoi Gede Nibo,
Whoi Gede, whoi Gede Nibo.
Interpretation:
There is a story behind this song, recorded in Maya Deren's
"The Divine Horsemen", and in other places. It seems that
there was a Haitian president, President Borno, who was
secretly sympathetic to Vodou. On the day of Fete Gede
(November 2), a crowd of Gedes went to the National
Palace to demand money of President Borno, who finally
gave it to them! So they went off singing this song! At
that time, Deputes used to wear white shirts, like guayaberas
(spelling), while Senators wore black suits.
Here is another song often sung at Fete Gede:
Ting ting ting ting
Kay Lamesi
Whoi Mama!
Kay Lamesi gen yon kochon griye
Whoi Mama!
Kay Lamesi gen yon kochon griye
Whoi Mama!
English translation:
Ting ting ting ting
La Merci's house
Whoi Mama!
La Merci's house has a roast pig
Whoi Mama!
La Merci's house has a roast pig
Whoi Mama!
Interpretation:
There was once a Mambo in the Carrefour area called La Merci
(the thanks), who served her lwa very well. At Fete Gede,
when every peristyle has pots of special food prepared for the
Gedes, La Merci roasted a whole pig! The grateful Gedes
made up the song.
soutini....@mailexcite.com
>
> Because you CAN'T, that's why. Remember that the
> stated purpose of this thread was to indulge LAKATs
> request for some songs *and translations* to help her
> improve her Creole! This is not a "Haitian board", this
> is a Usenet newsgroup accessible world wide.
Oh, ho, by the way, what's a thread? La Kat, I'm sorry but Vodou songs is
really not he best choice to learn Creole. Well as far as the Usenet
newsgroup is concerned that is nice to learn that it is accessible world
wide... gee, lasyens o... blan yo fo... but Haitians are scattered world wide
too aren't they?
>
> Furthermore you misquote the songs and song fragments
> you give. You talk about "second level meanings" because
> you always like to claim that you know something that
> nobody else does, as if this places you above question.
> Foolishness! Translate the songs and explain what they
> mean, just like I do. Or else don't claim to know.
>
Myself? I make no claim, ravet pa gen rezon divan gwo poul blan. Sa k konnen?
Why would I translate anything when there is such a smart kid on the board to
translate for me? Pa gen pwoblem! (sa k pa konnen, pa pran baton... sonje?)
But I can't help myself, I have to finish with a song or may be just a
fragment, why not?
"...N genyen je o! Marasa la yo, nou genyen je o!
Nou genyen je o, nou genyen je Marasa, pou nou gade yo vre..."
soutini
LA KAT47
>Subject: Re: Vodun Songs<BR>
>Date: 5/25/98 5:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
Soutini says:
>In order not to "mystify'": no "translation", no "accurate
>"no interpretation"... Aren't we on a Haitian board?<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Okay Soutini then I just have to pass this post by......and that is a pity. ;)
LA KAT
LA KAT47
>Subject: Re: Vodun Songs<BR>
>Date: 5/25/98 9:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
Racine says:
>Remember that the<BR>
>stated purpose of this thread was to indulge LAKATs<BR>
>request for some songs *and translations* to help her<BR>
>improve her Creole!
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Indulge me? Well, I guess I DO like to be indulged so I won't argue with you
here! However, as much as I do want help learning Kreyol, I also want to
further know the Vodou religion and the convolutions of Kreyol expression. It
is not easy for a person like me to understand and I struggle with it. Indulge
me! ;)<BR>
LA KAT
LA KAT47
Racine:
>LAKAT had a list of lwa, and one of them was Gede Nibo.<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
Thank you Racine.....I am saving these to show my husband, often he knows the
songs and sings them for me!<BR>
LA KAT
Mysteries
Not many people know Lakat is married to Pavarotti.
R.
Racine125
Soutini babbles:
>Why would I translate anything when there is such a
>smart kid on the board to translate for me?
You don't translate because you CAN'T! Translate this
fullakaka "foula kou lwa w la". DO IT! You can't.
You just like to pretend to know more than everyone
else, and try to exclude this one and that one - this one
is not a Mambo, that one can not understand because
she is white, the other one can not this and that. All that
does is give more insight into your personality, nothing
else.
>"...N genyen je o! Marasa la yo, nou genyen je o!
>Nou genyen je o, nou genyen je Marasa, pou nou
> gade yo vre..."
TRANSLATE, soutini.
soutini....@mailexcite.com
i babble
>
> >Why would I translate anything when there is such a
> >smart kid on the board to translate for me?
>
> You don't translate because you CAN'T! Translate this
> fullakaka foula kou lwa w la". DO IT! You can't.
> You just like to pretend to know more than everyone
> else, and try to exclude this one and that one - this one
> is not a Mambo, that one can not understand because
> she is white, the other one can not this and that. All that
> does is give more insight into your personality, nothing
> else.
I can't resist, just three other songs or fragments...
"...Lwa Kita Mambwe
Lwa Kita Mambwe
Mape mande kote yo konnen mwen?..."
>
"...Ay Zili, Zili, Bazilo,
M'di Zili, Zili, Bazilo.
O Bazilo so ti nan dlo,
Li pa mouye!..."
>
"...Bouke pale mal anmwen,
Mwen di e, se vre,
Hougan m solido, Ago e...
..M sot janbe pas a Lensou,
Pye m pa mouye la a...
...Bodie sel met o..."
La Kat, the smart kid wants more but refuses to translate, if your husband
refuses too, just e-mail me!
Racine125
SOUTINI!
TRANSLATE "foula kou lwa w la".
I am sure you can not.
LA KAT47
>Subject: Re: Vodun Songs<BR>
>Date: 5/25/98 12:51 PM Pacific
Mr. EEs says:<BR>
>Not many people know Lakat is married to Pavarotti.<BR>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<BR>
This is a meaningful contribution to this thread.........thank you so much for
adding this to our fount of knowledge.......find it in a book? ;)<BR>
LA KAT
soutini....@mailexcite.com
In article <199805262206...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
>
> RACINE125!
>
> TRANSLATE "foula kou lwa w la".
> > I am sure you can not.
>
want. You have the habit to teach creole to Haitians and you may continue to
do so, but up to now, you haven't taught me anything!
I only take orders from the loas, certainly not from somebody who translate
"Demambre" as you do. All Haitians readers must have had a good laugh, even
if they don't practice Vodou, most Haitians know what "Demambre" (or more
exactly: "Demanbre") means.... I only teach and pass the tradition to MY
hounsis and I am rather selective about who is qualified to become one, but
everybody can apply, including you.
I don't teach either that Legba takes offerings of flowers and fruits, if I
did that, Legba would slam the door of the Other World to my nose and if that
is the way YOU serve Legba, no wonder...
soutini
Racine125
Soutini writes:
> raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
>>
>> RACINE125!
You blasted liar, I did not write that. How many times have I
warned you about forging my name? You do it here, and you
do it on other people's discussion boards, until the site owner
catches you! What do you think, everyone else is too stupid
to see through you?
>>TRANSLATE "foula kou lwa w la".
>>I am sure you can not.
Now THAT I wrote, TO YOU! TRANSLATE it now, you
poseur - you go around slinging insults and claiming
exclusivity, and saying what this one can not do and that
one can not know, and pretending to know a whole lot
more than anyone else. Cowpats! All you do is nag and whine
and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE!
You write about me incessantly - "Who is Racine125", "Mambo
Racine this" and "Mambo Racine that." *I*, on the other
hand, write about VODOU. That is because I am Mambo,
soutini, I am sworn to the service of Guinea, and not to the
persecution of her children! You don't serve Guinea, you only
serve yourself and your own sick hatreds. You should be
ashamed of your miserable, grudgeful self. What's the matter,
are you mad because you can't spam my web site anymore?
Are AOL's TOS regulations too constricting for you?
Where is YOUR website? Where do YOU lecture? Where
is YOUR contribution to the development of human rights
in Haiti and in the USA? What other activities do YOU have,
besides making yourself obnoxious? I sing reggae, I write for
the papers, I serve the Haitian community of Boston as a Mambo
without making a huge fanfare about it. And in the meantime,
I make the people around me *happy*! I have a loving man
beside me, I have friends of every race and nationality and
background, and you know what? They LOVE me, they are
*happy* when they see me coming. You seem like you want
something you don't have.
>I HAVE NO BOSS AND I DON'T LIKE ORDERS and
> feel free to think whatever you want. You have the habit to >teach creole to
Haitians
YOU are the one who says you don't care anything about
Creole spelling - but when it comes to French, then
spelling is important to you! Your elitism is showing, which
is only to be expected from a person of your background.
> you haven't taught me anything!
Your loss. You should be able to learn something from
everyone. You remind me of a naughty little girl who sticks her
fingers in her ears and screams, rather than hear the words
of her playmates!
>Haitians know what "Demambre" (or more
>exactly: "Demanbre") means....
Fine, let's hear your version! You always claim to know a whole
lot - but you never back it up with anything but a pile of
propaganda about how other people "can not know" and "can
not understand". Hypocrite!
> I only teach and pass the tradition to MY
>hounsis and I am rather selective about who is qualified to >become one, but
everybody can apply, including you.
Why would I step down? My Houngan, Luc Gedeon, was
a civilized and thoughtful person, unlike yourself. Do you
think he would ever have stooped to the kind of grimace
you enjoy doing? But if you are willing to lose your arrogance
and your sourness, then you can come study with me - I accept
almost anyone! LOL! That is because all the Children of Guinea
are MY CHILDREN, I am a Mambo and am sworn to act as
a Mother to them. I don't reject and scorn people so that I can
feel big, the way you do. If you were anything like a Mambo,
you would follow my example.
>I don't teach either that Legba takes offerings of flowers and >fruits, if I
did that, Legba would slam the door of the Other
> World to my nose
I bet that happened long ago! LOL! Who cares what you teach?
You don't even have an initatory line, or else you are too
embarassed to reveal it. I, on the other hand, am PROUD of
my Houngan, and honor my committments to the service of
Guinea.
soutini....@mailexcite.com
I do not respond to insults and deceits.
I prefer our way of doing things which is by throwing water without getting
anybody wet ("m voye dlo m pap mouye pesonn").
"...La fanmi sanble, anye, o sanble non.
La fanmi sanble non, ewa gweto na ide.
Yo vini gade, o si m fe byen...
Yo vini gade, o si m fe mal,
O si m fe mal pou yo pote m ale, ato!..."
"...Marasa yo ale nan lage,
Marasa yo ale nan lage,
Peshe late pa Bondye!
"...Simitye Bumba.
Kouman sa va ye?
Di yo mwen la e.
...Jodi pou mwen,
Demen pou you lot o.
Simitye mashe pazapa
Male deye yo..."
Racine125
Hi, LAKAT! How are you?
I hope your husband is in voice today, beacuse here come
a few more songs! :-)
You asked for one for Ogoun, right? Here is one for Ogoun
St. Jacques that most people know:
Chwal Sen Jak O, mare nan poto
Pa gen moun O, pou lage l pou mwen.
Chwal Sen Jak O, mare nan poto
Pa gen moun O, pou lage l pou mwen.
Li te met gen ve, li te met gen malinn nan do
Sen Jak O, bay li lavi pou mwen.
English translation:
St. Jacques' horse oh, tied to a post,
There is no one oh, to let him go for me,
St. Jacques' horse oh, tied to a post,
There is no one oh, to let him go for me,
He could have worms, he could have sores on his back,
St. Jacques oh, give him life for me.
Interpretation:
Of course you know that a lwa's 'horse' is the person who
becomes possessed by the lwa, right? So, someone
who is St. Jacques horse is 'tied to a post', that is, about
to undergo possession (sometimes a person becomes
all but rooted to the spot when possession begins). Even
if he is sick (has 'worms') or injured ('sores on his back'),
St. Jacques is requested to give him life!
This song is sung quite sonorously, and is very moving.
I think many Haitians identify with the image of St. Jacques
horse - I know I do.
Racine125
Hi, LAKAT, here is some more! :-)
Songs for Houngans and Mambos are very common, and
here are a few examples. The first is a recent 'rasin' tune
which has very rapidly been incorporated into Vodou
service:
Salywe Mambo! Salywe Mambo kay la pou mwen
Houngenikon mwen prale
Salywe Mambo! Salywe Mambo kay la pou mwen
Houngenikon mwen prale
Sa ki bezwenn we nou,
Yap mache vini we nou,
Sa ki kontann we nou,
Yap mache vini we nou la,
Salywe Mambo! Salywe Mambo kay la pou mwen
Houngenikon mwen prale.
English translation:
Salute the Mambo! Salute the Mambo of my house for me,
Houngenikon ( a ceremonial role something like "choirmaster",
although the term is really not much used) I am going,
Salute the Mambo! Salute the Mambo of my house for me,
Houngenikon I am going,
Those who need to see us,
They will walk come to see us,
Those who are happy to see us,
They will walk come to see us there,
Salute the Mambo! Salute the Mambo of my house for me,
Houngenikon I am going.
I think this song is pretty self-explanatory, so I am not giving
an interpretation. Here is one for Houngans:
Set un Houngan,
Le Jouda ap pale sou do m, set un Houngan
M mange, mwen bwe, m domi, m leve,
M mange, mwen bwe, m domi, m leve,
Le Jouda ap pale sou do m, set un Houngan
English translation:
It's a Houngan (the words above include some French, it's
really 'c'est un'.)
When Judas talks behind my back, it's a Houngan.
I eat, I drink, I sleep, I get up,
I eat, I drink, I sleep, I get up.
When Judas talks behind my back, it's a Houngan.
Interpretation:
This is a praise song for Houngans - when Judas (hypocrites)
talk behind my back, it's a Houngan I have to help me. I eat,
drink, sleep, and wake, in other words I live in peace, thanks
to the protection of my Houngan.
Machiiavel
> raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
>SOUTINI!
>
>TRANSLATE "foula kou lwa w la".
>
>I am sure you can not.
--------------------
Racine, I think yoiu have scooped to your lowest with this childish and
kindergarden behavior by asking daring Soutini to translate the above phrase.
There will no more fighting in here. Abraham dit, "c'est assez!"
You make me rememberan old Haitian adage that says, "Lougarou famm pa jamm
kite."
MACH
Racine125
I don't think it is very helpful to LAKAT, soutini, for you to
give the first few lines of a series of songs, with no indication
of their meaning, context, liturgical category, or whatever.
Racine125
Mach writes:
>Racine, I think yoiu have scooped to your lowest with this
>childish and kindergarden behavior by asking daring
>Soutini to translate the above phrase.
Don't you mean s-t-o-o-p-e-d? And who cares what you think
of my posts? The Usenet is open to everyone, even spam
artists like soutini. If she is goig to claim superior knowledge,
she should be prepared to back it up! Just writing a bunch of
nonsense doesn't make a person an authority - as YOU should
know! LOL!
>There will no more fighting in here
Even if we sell tickets? Aaannnnd in this corner.....
LOL!
soutini....@mailexcite.com
> LAKAT! Get to your senses and do not believe what you read
>
> I hope your husband corrects me if I'm wrong. I have to do it because I
find the translation quite insulting to me and the Haitian people, see for
yourself.
> Chwal Sen Jak O, mare nan poto
> Pa gen moun O, pou lage l pou mwen.
> Chwal Sen Jak O, mare nan poto
> Pa gen moun O, pou lage l pou mwen.
> Li te met gen ve, li te met gen malinn nan do
> Sen Jak O, bay li lavi pou mwen.
>
> English translation:
> St. Jacques' horse oh, tied to a post,
> There is no one oh, to let him go for me,
> St. Jacques' horse oh, tied to a post,
> There is no one oh, to let him go for me,
> He could have worms, he could have sores on his back,
> St. Jacques oh, give him life for me.
>
> Interpretation:
> Of course you know that a lwa's 'horse' is the person who
> becomes possessed by the lwa, right? So, someone
> who is St. Jacques horse is 'tied to a post', that is, about
> to undergo possession (sometimes a person becomes
> all but rooted to the spot when possession begins). Even
> if he is sick (has 'worms') or injured ('sores on his back'),
> St. Jacques is requested to give him life!
>
> > I think many Haitians identify with the image of St. Jacques
> horse - I know I do.
>
I don't know Racine, maybe she looks like a horse and identifies to a horse,
that is not my problem. But I don't and I can assure you that no Haitian
identify to any horse, not even the one of SenJak Maje. Furthermore no
Haitians are tied to a post with worms and sore on their back. Racine already
proclained that "fake" Mambos were tied up to Poto Mitan and flogged... This
is insanity.
The song above is very simple, it is popular because it relates an incident
which often happens in the country side. It is the story of a horse
identified to SenJak Maje horse (many country people make a symbolic offering
of their horse to SenJak, for him to protect the animal) which is tied to a
post. Horses "maré nan poto" occurs frequently, it means that a horse left
free or who broke his cord, went into someone's field or garden. The rural
police (or his assistant, a chouket Lawose) was called and confiscated the
horse. Then a fine has to be paid by its owner if he wants to get his horse
back.
The song is an imploration to SenJak, to see that the horse is returned (
that's is what "ba li lavi pou mwen" means) and may be the fine lifted. The
mentionning of the horse being in bad shape (most horses in Haiti have worms
and back sores for having wooden saddles and heavy loads to carry) is just a
smart prevention. If the SenJak asks to be paid for his services, the person
who obtained the favor can always say: "but my horse was in bad shape"!
In fact, like most song, it is also a teaching, this one on how to bargain
with the Loas.
I prefer not to comment the other songs but I told you La Kat that Vodou
songs are not the best to learn creole, if you persist into it, check the
translations with your husband.
soutini
Racine125
Soutini babbles:
>I don't know Racine, maybe she looks like a horse and
> identifies to a horse, that is not my problem.
Sure, I look like a horse! LOL! Tell yourself that.
> But I don't and I can assure you that no Haitian
>identify to any horse, not even the one of SenJak Maje.
Are you nuts? The Haitian (or non-Haitian) possessed
by Ogoun St. Jacques *IS* Ogoun St. Jacques horse.
DUH.
>Furthermore no Haitians are tied to a post with worms
> and sore on their back
It's an *analogy*, soutini, and that concept is probably too
advanced for you. It doesn't mean that Haitians necessarily
have worms and sores! It means that Haitians, just like
anyone else, sometimes *suffer* and sometimes feel
*tied up*, in other words, unable to do as they would like.
Goodness knows I identify with this image, and I don't
think my suffering has been as great as that of MANY
Haitians. It means that even though a person may be
suffering and hampered and hobbled, Ogoun St.
Jacques will still love that person, and still give that person life.
> Racine already proclained that "fake" Mambos were
> tied up to Poto Mitan and flogged..
Actually, women pretending to be Mambos usually are
permitted to run away, but *MEN* pretending to be
Houngans can and do get a flogging! Don't tell me
it doesn't happen, I have seen it with my own eyes,
and it is enough a part of the local zeitgeist that there is
even a joke about it - see "The Man Who Pretended to
Be a Houngan":
http://members.aol.com/racine125/vjoke1.html
> It is the story of a horse
LOL! A lwa's *horse* is a PERSON, soutini, lwa do
not possess horses!
>Horses "maré nan poto" occurs frequently, it means
>that a horse left free or who broke his cord
"Mare nan poto" means "tied to a post", not "broke
it's cord".
> The rural police (or his assistant, a chouket Lawose)
A chouket lawouze (literally 'dew shaker', because they
go out early in the morning to do their dirty work), was
NOT the assistant of a police officer, but rather the
assistant of a *chef section*. There were no police in
Haiti until 1994, when the Haitian National Police were
formed - unless of course you count the few months
in 1991 when the Agents Police Communal were in
function.
>The song is an imploration to SenJak, to see that the horse
> is returned (that's is what "ba li lavi pou mwen" means)
Puh-LEASE!
"Ba li lavi pou mwen" means "give him life for me", not
"see that my horse is returned"! LOL!
>I prefer not to comment the other songs
There is a God!
> but I told you La Kat that Vodou songs are not the best to
>learn creole, if you persist into it, check the translations
> with your husband.
Oh, now you are telling LAKAT what to do, eh? Actually
songs are a VERY GOOD way to learn a language, because
the words typically are enunciated more sloooooowly, and
because phrases are often repeated.