What is a Mulatto?
RODNEY HAMPTON
what is the haitian definition for mulatto? i once was told that
cedras's wife was not a mulatto but he was. i am confused. is it
based on skin color, facial features or what. furthermore would not
the vast numbers of african-americans be also mulatto. for the
record, mulatto is derived from the word mule...meaning hybrid.
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <0000ae6b...@msn.com>,
HT...@msn.com (RODNEY HAMPTON) wrote:
>
> what is the haitian definition for mulatto? i once was told that
> cedras's wife was not a mulatto but he was. i am confused.
In the Haitian context, a mulatto is usually a person of lighter
complexion with some economic clout.
> is it
> based on skin color, facial features or what.
All that and more....
> furthermore would not
> the vast numbers of african-americans be also mulatto.
Not quite, the skin color component *HAS* to be there....
> for the
> record, mulatto is derived from the word mule...meaning hybrid.
>
True, very true...
On the other hand, you are what you are inside, and should not let
yourself be defined by artificial constructs such as skin tone, wallet
size etc... etc... In the final analysis, you only have *yourself* to
answer to....
Aly "chief resident psycho-babblist in SCH." Laurent
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haic...@aol.com
>what is the haitian definition for mulatto? i once was told that
>based on skin color, facial features or what. furthermore would not
>the vast numbers of african-americans be also mulatto. for the
The word 'mulatto' was indeed derived from a word for 'mule', because in
the early days of the slave trade, some people mistakenly believed that
white and black people were different species, and that the offspring of a
white person and a black person would therefore be sterile, like a mule.
In the United States, the term originally meant the first-generation
offspring of a white person and a black person, and gradually came to mean
the entire ethnic and social class of such persons and their descendants.
Nowadays in the United States, the majority of first-generation 'mulattos'
are no longer the offspring of white men and disempowered black women, but
rather the offspring of white women and black men who choose one another
freely. Perhaps this phenomenon is the reason why we have now evolved new
terms such as 'bi-racial' or 'mixed race' to describe such individuals.
In the meanwhile, racial prejudice being strong in the United States,
anyone with a recognizable proportion of black heritage is mistakenly
considered 'black', although the preponderance of their heritage may be
white, Native American, or Asian.
In Haiti, the word for 'mulatto' is 'milat' in Kreyol, 'mulate' in French
(I'm not quite sure of the French spelling). A woman is referred to as a
'mulatresse', usually given in the context 'belle mulatresse', as the
characteristics of relatively light skin and straighter, longer hair are
still considered highly desirable. These words refer to an entire class
of people, and not just first generation 'bi-racial' individuals.
These words, since they refer to a social class which enjoys greater
privilege, access to education, and so on, also carry economic
connotations. There is a Kreyol proverb which says 'Neg rich se milat,
milat pov se neg", translationg to "A rich black man is a mulatto, a poor
mulatto is a black man."
I personally was very surprised to hear certain Haitians refer to
themselves as 'mulate'. I had considered terms like 'mulatto',
'quardroon', 'octoroon', and so forth to be objectifying and often
degrading. It was almost comical to see the wealthy mulatto class of
Haiti rail against the race prejudice of whites, and then inflict the same
or worse disdain on the dark-skinned majority of their own population.
The 'mulate' class hated to be called 'black', and many of them even hated
to be called 'Haitian', since in Kreyol the term 'Haitian' strongly
implies 'black'.
I remember one young teenager, daughter of a wealthy merchant of Lebanese
origins, whose family had been in Haiti for generations, had mixed with
other ethnicities (light-skinned 'mulatresses') and who herself was born
in Haiti and carried a Haitian passport. This girl insisted that she was
not Haitian, and that she considered her citizenship merely an unfortunate
accident which occured because her father had failed to send her mother to
the United States for the delivery (a strategy often used by the upper
class to confer American citizenship on their children, valid at least
until age 18).
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <19961119152...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
haic...@aol.com wrote a bunch of interesting stuff, chiefly:
> In the meanwhile, racial prejudice being strong in the United States,
> anyone with a recognizable proportion of black heritage is mistakenly
> considered 'black', although the preponderance of their heritage may be
> white, Native American, or Asian.
Not quite always true, have you ever heard of the term "passing"?
You know, those instances where a light skin person totally rejects
his/her black heritage and embraces the culture of the majority?
> In Haiti, the word for 'mulatto' is 'milat' in Kreyol, 'mulate' in French
> (I'm not quite sure of the French spelling).
Mulatre.
> A woman is referred to as a
> 'mulatresse', usually given in the context 'belle mulatresse', as the
> characteristics of relatively light skin and straighter, longer hair are
> still considered highly desirable. These words refer to an entire class
> of people, and not just first generation 'bi-racial' individuals.
> These words, since they refer to a social class which enjoys greater
> privilege, access to education, and so on, also carry economic
> connotations. There is a Kreyol proverb which says 'Neg rich se milat,
> milat pov se neg", translationg to "A rich black man is a mulatto, a poor
> mulatto is a black man."
True, very true...
> I personally was very surprised to hear certain Haitians refer to
> themselves as 'mulate'. I had considered terms like 'mulatto',
> 'quardroon', 'octoroon', and so forth to be objectifying and often
> degrading.
Semantically, yes, but when put in proper context, the term carries
a whole new and different dimension.
> It was almost comical to see the wealthy mulatto class of
> Haiti rail against the race prejudice of whites, and then inflict the same
> or worse disdain on the dark-skinned majority of their own population.
Hum! I wonder where they learned such behaviour....
> The 'mulate' class hated to be called 'black', and many of them even hated
> to be called 'Haitian', since in Kreyol the term 'Haitian' strongly
> implies 'black'.
Famous legacy of slavery which never left the haitian psyche, the mulattoes
were taught to hate their dark skinned brethren and vice versa... 'cuz
an alliance between those two entities would have been detrimental to
the ante bellum Haiti...
> I remember one young teenager, daughter of a wealthy merchant of Lebanese
> origins, whose family had been in Haiti for generations, had mixed with
> other ethnicities (light-skinned 'mulatresses') and who herself was born
> in Haiti and carried a Haitian passport. This girl insisted that she was
> not Haitian, and that she considered her citizenship merely an unfortunate
> accident which occured because her father had failed to send her mother to
> the United States for the delivery (a strategy often used by the upper
> class to confer American citizenship on their children, valid at least
> until age 18).
Probably a true story, since this attitude is very prevalent in
"la classe bourgeoise". I personally went to college with one of
those kids, we were buddies in Boston, then we went home on vacation,
interestingly enough, I was never invited to his house in Haiti...
Ah! Men and their follies!
Aly "Where do we find the key that opens eyes?" Laurent
Jean Saint-Vil
Did you guys see the show on NBC Nightline, last evening?
It was about this couple from New-Zealand. They were both as
white as Michael Jackson's wife to be and they had twins.
One white, One Black.
For those who didn't see the show, I will leave it here so
they keep wondering how did happened?
but, the very fact that it hapenned should be an eye opener
for those who refuse to recognize that Black/ White /Yellow/Red
are creations of short-sighted pink and brown men who
would be more productive in this world if they spent less
time defining themselves according to the richness of Melanin
produced for their skin.
--
"Depi nan Ginen bon Nèg ap ede Nèg!"
Jan AfrikAyiti
haic...@aol.com
In article <56vvon$h...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
dh...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jean Saint-Vil) writes:
>Did you guys see the show on NBC Nightline, last evening?
>It was about this couple from New-Zealand. They were both as
>white as Michael Jackson's wife to be and they had twins.
>One white, One Black.
>
>For those who didn't see the show, I will leave it here so
>they keep wondering how did happened?
Don't tell me, let me guess - the children were concieved by artificial
insemination, and the sperm got mixed - some from her husband, some from
the black man whose sperm had been processed previously. It only takes
one sperm cell, after all! LOL!
By the way - if the darker twin is the child of a white woman, he/she is
not black, but mixed. The American habit of assigning anyone with a
recognizable proportion of black ancestry to the category "black" is a
racist holdover from the days when only "pure" whites were considered
eligible for the social privileges whiteness conferred. Back then, light
skinned mixed race people sometimes felt forced to deny their black
heritage, if they could, and identify as "white". Nowadays, mixed race
people sometimes feel pressured to deny their white heritage, and identify
as "black". Both situations are destructive to the individual's
personality, of course.
Pink and brown really might be better terms! In fact, the use of the
terms "black" and "white" came about to propagandize a false and
malevolent conception of "diametrical opposition" and "total difference"
between the groups.
Actually, in Haiti there is a wealth of terms describing shades of skin
color, as you know - not only '"milat", but "grimo/grimel", "moun wouj",
"bel nwa", and so on.
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <56vvon$h...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
dh...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jean Saint-Vil) wrote:
>
> Did you guys see the show on NBC Nightline, last evening?
> It was about this couple from New-Zealand. They were both as
> white as Michael Jackson's wife to be and they had twins.
> One white, One Black.
> For those who didn't see the show, I will leave it here so
> they keep wondering how did happened?
Not fair... what happened?? A medical mystery?? It makes no sense!
Wait, lemme guess.. the father was mixed! Yeah, that is it!
That is the only way!
Does twin conception happen at the same time? One sperm fertilizing
more than one egg?? What?? Hey, I ain't no doctor!!
Aly "Any doctors in the house?" Laurent
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Godfrey A. Whyte
haic...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Actually, in Haiti there is a wealth of terms describing shades of skin
> color, as you know - not only '"milat", but "grimo/grimel", "moun wouj",
> "bel nwa", and so on.
And no one has ever considered that "bel nwa" is a bit too Eurocentric?
The point is that in all of the Americas except the USA being mixed
serves as a social escape hatch from Black identity. The different terms
used to identify every shade of black/brown can also be considered as
destructive to black identity.
There is hardly a single black person born anywhere in the Americas who
do not have some degree of European ancestry. Even if that is not the
case there can still said to be "white heritage" culturally speaking. So
the fuss made about mixed people in the US denying their "white heritage"
is grossly exaggerated. The major problem is the haste with which Blacks
in other parts of the Americas seek to deny their "black heritage".
You will notice this particularly when you cross your land border and you
run into some "indios" but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new.
Godfrey
alan...@aol.com
>There is hardly a single black person born anywhere in the Americas who
>do not have some degree of European ancestry. Even if that is not the
>case there can still said to be "white heritage" culturally speaking. So
>the fuss made about mixed people in the US denying their "white heritage"
>is grossly exaggerated. The major problem is the haste with which Blacks
>in other parts of the Americas seek to deny their "black heritage".
I think both groups may have a problem. In the U.S., there was the one
drop rule, so anyone with a drop of African ancestry was black. There
have been ridiculous cases in the U.S. of people who were 1/32 African,
but were legally black. Some of these people do not deny their African
heritage, but the reality is that they are predominantly white. At the
same time, I understand the thing about the "indios"; that as well is
ridiculous.
I guess my point is that people should not have to deny any of their
ancestry. It happens that in America it is PC for "blacks" to deny white
heritage, while in the Caribbean it is PC to downplay black heritage. One
should (in an ideal world) be able to acknowledge both without too much
grief. But I know, that would not be dealing with reality, right?
Alana
haic...@aol.com
In article <3294C4...@sympatico.ca>, "Godfrey A. Whyte"
<gwh...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>And no one has ever considered that "bel nwa" is a bit too Eurocentric?
>The point is that in all of the Americas except the USA being mixed
>serves as a social escape hatch from Black identity. The different terms
>used to identify every shade of black/brown can also be considered as
>destructive to black identity.
So then... what? Ignore the differences, when in fact the various shades
of human complexion are all so lovely and interesting? The terms are not
destructive unless attitudes and actions are destructive. When attitudes
change, terms carry different connontations.
Taking an example from another set of social prejudices, the word "tart"
means a yummy sort of pastry, usually with fruit filling. But because of
institutionalized disrespect for women and women's sexuality, "tart" when
applied to women took on negative connotations of prostitution.
I guess that is why words like mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, and so forth,
always felt wrong to me - these words are objectifying labels invented by
the oppressor class. But I LIKE to be called 'grimel', it carries
endearing connotations in Haiti. I don't need or want an escape hatch, I
really LIKE what I am. I have never though of 'bel nwa' as Eurocentric
(I'm not sure why you would?) - it refers to a woman or man with very
dark, unblemished skin and generally pleasing facial features. If I was a
'bel nwa' I would be pleased to be so called. See what I mean?
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <3294C4...@sympatico.ca>,
"Godfrey A. Whyte" <gwh...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> The different terms
> used to identify every shade of black/brown can also be considered as
> destructive to black identity.
>
How so? Think of it as a beautiful tapestry, many shades of attractive
colors and designs....
> The major problem is the haste with which Blacks
> in other parts of the Americas seek to deny their "black heritage".
>
You may want to consider using the modifier "SOME* in your sentences
sometime... Besides, if *SOME* blacks do feel this way, it is not because
of some inherent feeling of inferiority, but rather an expression
of social conditioning....
Aly "Chief resident psycho-babblist in SCH." Laurent :-)
RALPH CHERY
Hi,
I just want to indicate that there is much less prejudice in Haiti nowadays.
Still, the colour issue is not easily raised. I remember whenever my
Haitian History teacher talked about colour, everybody in my class felt very
uncomfortable. Even now, we don't use the term "mulatre" but rather
"grimaud" or "grimelle". I think that we have to realize that we are all
Haitians.I hope that soon all Haitians will unite whether they from the
upper, middle ,or working class. It may be wishful thinking but I am
positive that my generation will achieve that.
Ralph Chery
RALPH CHERY
There is a book written by a Canadian scholar who did research in Haiti
during the 70's. It is called "Ideologie de couleur et de classe en Haiti ".
The author is Micheline Labelle and the book is published by "Les presses
de l'Universite de Montreal".
Ralph Chery
haic...@aol.com
I sent this four days ago and haven't seen it come down the feed yet, so
I'm resending it:
In article <3294C4...@sympatico.ca>, "Godfrey A. Whyte"
<gwh...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>And no one has ever considered that "bel nwa" is a bit too Eurocentric?
>The point is that in all of the Americas except the USA being mixed
>serves as a social escape hatch from Black identity. The different terms
>used to identify every shade of black/brown can also be considered as
>destructive to black identity.
So then... what? Ignore the differences, and pretend that all the lovely
shades of human complexion don't exist? I don't think that terms are
destructive, as much as the attitudes and prejudices that lend
connotations to the terms. When the attitudes change, the connotations of
the terms change also.
To take an example from another area of prejudice: The word 'tart' in
English means a yummy sort of pastry, usually with a fruit filling. But
because of social prejudice against and contempt for women and women's
sexuality, the word 'tart' applied to women, originally with the kind of
connotation 'sweetie pie' has today, came quickly to take on connotations
of prostitution.
That is why I never liked the terms mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, and so
forth - I feel that they are objectifying and disrespectful words made up
by an oppressor class to describe people they considered lower than
themselves. But I LIKE to be called 'grimel', which in Creole has
affectionate and pleasant overtones. I don't want an 'escape hatch from
my identity', I LIKE what I am.
I'm not sure why you would consider the term 'bel nwa' Eurocentric? In
Creole, a 'bel nwa' is a man or woman with a smooth, unblemished, very
dark skin and generally pleasing facial features. If I was a 'bel nwa' I
would be more than happy to be called so.
sbo...@aol.com
The "Old Farmers Almanac" years ago ran an article stating that if you
traced your ancestry to the 10th cousin, everyone on earth was somehow
related. It was really interesting and made a lot of sense.
We probably are all related if you go back far enough. How did we manage
to divide ourselves into little groups???? (Or as Rodney King said, "Why
can't we all get along?"
Sally :^>