New VODOU Web Page, from Mambo Racine Sans But
raci...@aol.com
THE VODOU PAGE
Greetings, friends! I am pleased to announce the opening of my new Web
site, The VODOU Page, at the URL below:
http://members.aol.com/Racine125/index.html
This page contains information on Vodou, the secret societies of the
Shanpwel, and links to other pages dealing with the Afro-Caribbean
religious tradition and with Haitian culture. I would be very happy to
hear your questions or comments!
May God/Goddess, the ancestors, and the lwa be with you,
Mambo Racine Sans But
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Joshua B
This message was crossposted to these groups:
soc.culture.haiti
alt.magic,alt.pagan
alt.current-events.haiti
alt.religion.africa
soc.culture.african
rec.music.reggae
alt.religion.orisha
Those these are the things we a deal with in RMR?
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:33:23 GMT, deol...@pipeline.com (Denise
Oliver) wrote:
>Congrats! Will add your site to the" list of interesting sites to
>visit" posted on alt.religion.orisha. Thanks again for your superb
>Voudou series as well!
>
>Alafia,
>
>Denise
raci...@aol.com
jos...@cybercom.net (Joshua B)wrote, concerning the anouncement of the
new VODOU Web page:
>This message was crossposted to these groups:
>soc.culture.haiti
>alt.magic,alt.pagan
>alt.current-events.haiti
>alt.religion.africa
>soc.culture.african
>rec.music.reggae
>alt.religion.orisha
>Those these are the things we a deal with in RMR?
RMR, rec.music.reggae, is a newsgroup about reggae music. In the course
of posting to that newsgroup, I have discussed such topics as reggae
music in Haiti, musical events involving Haitian reggae bands, and
similarities and differences between Jamaican and Haitian culture.
The result, as you are aware Joshua, was a tremendous amount of
anti-Haitian, anti-Vodou, and anti-woman language from a few rmr
contributors already noted for being, well, shall we say, looney.
To avoid spending my time and the time of sane, intelligent rmr readers
refuting these erroneous and bigoted statements about Haiti, Haitians,
and Haitian traditional religion, I have directed the attention of rmr
readers (and those of the other above-mentioned newsgroups) to The VODOU
Page:
http/::members.aol.com/racine125/index.html.
Since you are, I think, aware of the history of the threads to which I am
referring, I don't know why you would object to my deflecting these
points of information to the appropriate Web page?
Mark Griffis
raci...@aol.com wrote:
>
> jos...@cybercom.net (Joshua B)wrote, concerning the anouncement of the
> new VODOU Web page:
>
> RMR, rec.music.reggae, is a newsgroup about reggae music. In the course
> of posting to that newsgroup, I have discussed such topics as reggae
> music in Haiti, musical events involving Haitian reggae bands, and
> similarities and differences between Jamaican and Haitian culture.
>
> The result, as you are aware Joshua, was a tremendous amount of
> anti-Haitian, anti-Vodou, and anti-woman language from a few rmr
> contributors already noted for being, well, shall we say, looney.
>
> To avoid spending my time and the time of sane, intelligent rmr readers
> refuting these erroneous and bigoted statements about Haiti, Haitians,
> and Haitian traditional religion, I have directed the attention of rmr
> readers (and those of the other above-mentioned newsgroups) to The VODOU
> Page:
>
> http/::members.aol.com/racine125/index.html.
>
> Since you are, I think, aware of the history of the threads to which I am
> referring, I don't know why you would object to my deflecting these
> points of information to the appropriate Web page?
>
> May God/Goddess, the ancestors, and the lwa be with you,
>
> Mambo Racine Sans But
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Art Cohen
Mark Griffis (bgdr...@idt.net) wrote:
: why does anti-racine mean anti-women. does racine represent "all" women?
It doesn't... but Enoch has shown repeatedly, with derogatory, sexist
comments, that he is extremely uncomfortable with women expressing their
sexuality.
--Art
National Ska/Reggae Calendar: www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/calendar.html
Boston Ska Home Page: www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/index.html
Joshua B
On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:33:40 -0600, raci...@aol.com wrote:
>Since you are, I think, aware of the history of the threads to which I am
>referring, I don't know why you would object to my deflecting these
>points of information to the appropriate Web page?
>
>May God/Goddess, the ancestors, and the lwa be with you,
God/Goddess? Ancestors? Sorry, I don't subscribe to this policy. I
will never agree with voodoo or Roman Catholicism (for which voodoo in
Haiti is closely associated with). From now on I will not respond to
any more threads on voodoo. I'm sorry that I did in the first place.
That way, no one will wish me voodoo blessings. I am a bible believing
Christian who loves Jesus Christ, and I don't need, wish, or accept
outside, pestilent forces. I am a child of God and he protects me
extroardinarily. You'll just have to trust me on this.
~~~Respect due from Joshua B~~~~
jos...@cybercom.net
http://www.cybercom.net/~joshuab
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M.E.M.
raci...@aol.com wrote:
>
> jos...@cybercom.net (Joshua B)wrote, concerning the anouncement of the
> new VODOU Web page:
>
> >soc.culture.haiti
> >alt.magic,alt.pagan
> >alt.current-events.haiti
> >alt.religion.africa
> >soc.culture.african
> >rec.music.reggae
> >alt.religion.orisha
> >Those these are the things we a deal with in RMR?
>
> referring, I don't know why you would object to my deflecting these
> points of information to the appropriate Web page?
>
I've seen some people sequentially post messages to different newsgroups
- one group at at time. A suggestion?
--
M.E. Moore...from the mountains of New Mexico...
"If reggae is about truth and peace,
then let's discuss the Truth in peace."
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Messian Dread
raci...@aol.com wrote:
> This page contains information on Vodou, the secret societies of the
> Shanpwel, and links to other pages dealing with the Afro-Caribbean
> religious tradition and with Haitian culture. I would be very happy to
> hear your questions or comments!
Does it contain the truth about it? Does it seh how much Jah hates all
the occult and demonic things? Does it reveal just how satan and his
demons possesses the people dem? Does it seh there is no difference
between black and white magic? (b.t.w. why is black allways synoniem for
wrong?)
>
> May God/Goddess, the ancestors, and the lwa be with you,
>
May JAH be with you. Iman no need my ancestors or any other demon around
me. Let the dead rest in peace and don't call them up, since you only
get demons in disguise.
Go aheah, Rancine, laugh. I know you do! But remember: he who laughs
last.... Hope we will laugh together in Zion!
Greeting from Messian Dread
Michael Staggs
Messian Dread <mdr...@dds.nl> wrote in article <3315A9...@dds.nl>...
> Does it contain the truth about it? Does it seh how much Jah hates all
> the occult and demonic things?
Wrong religion.....that particular mythology belongs on another web page
Does it reveal just how satan and his
> demons possesses the people dem?
Again, wrong religion. The loa possess in voodoo....and that's a good
thing.
Does it seh there is no difference
> between black and white magic? (b.t.w. why is black allways synoniem for
> wrong?)
If you believe your god hates the occult, why are you now claiming to have
knowledge of magick?
> May JAH be with you. Iman no need my ancestors or any other demon around
> me.
Some of my ancestors might have been a little unruly, but I don't think I'd
call them demons...
Let the dead rest in peace and don't call them up, since you only
> get demons in disguise.
Oh really. Your own bible claims differently. I believe it was David who
called up Saul and Saul jumped his case for disturbing his rest..
> Go aheah, Rancine, laugh. I know you do! But remember: he who laughs
> last.... Hope we will laugh together in Zion!
Oh yes. If we grovel enough on earth, we get to spend an eternity
grovelling somewhere else. NO THANK YOU!
93
Shez
In article <3315b463...@snews.zippo.com>, Joshua B
<jos...@cybercom.net> writes
>>referring, I don't know why you would object to my deflecting these
>>points of information to the appropriate Web page?
>>
>
>will never agree with voodoo or Roman Catholicism (for which voodoo in
>Haiti is closely associated with). From now on I will not respond to
>any more threads on voodoo. I'm sorry that I did in the first place.
>That way, no one will wish me voodoo blessings. I am a bible believing
>Christian who loves Jesus Christ, and I don't need, wish, or accept
>outside, pestilent forces. I am a child of God and he protects me
>extroardinarily. You'll just have to trust me on this.
equally pestilent, please do remove yourself. this is a pagan forum.
Mambo Racine sans But. is a highly respected teacher. within her own
religion. I suggest you go back to your church.
>
>
>~~~Respect due from Joshua B~~~~
> jos...@cybercom.net
>http://www.cybercom.net/~joshuab
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------------------------------------------
Me Sion Dread
Michael Staggs wrote:
>
> Messian Dread <mdr...@dds.nl> wrote in article <3315A9...@dds.nl>...
>
> > Does it contain the truth about it? Does it seh how much Jah hates all
> > the occult and demonic things?
>
> Wrong religion.....that particular mythology belongs on another web page
In a newsgroup dealing with JAH and His Word, as you know reggae for a
big portion is in fact dealing with JAH, this answer ,Iman gave belongs
in this newsgroup. What does voodoo have in common with JAH! Exorcism
Devilism I nah deal with (Z. Marley).
>
> Does it reveal just how satan and his
> > demons possesses the people dem?
>
> Again, wrong religion. The loa possess in voodoo....and that's a good
> thing.
What????!!!
It is not good to be possesed by any spirit other than the Holy Spirit.
Yeshouah allways commanded the spirits to leave the people dem. Don't
you see or realize that whenever a demon takes over your body you cannot
control yourself? Where one of the fruit of the Holy Spirit of Jah is
self-control. I cannot see any self-control within voodoo and related
isms.
>
> Does it seh there is no difference
> > between black and white magic? (b.t.w. why is black allways synoniem for
> > wrong?)
>
> If you believe your god hates the occult, why are you now claiming to have
> knowledge of magick?
Know thy enemie. Paul, the apostle, him seh about the devil: His works
are not unknown to me. He also seh we have to expose the demonic things,
we have to tell the people dem the truth. Knowing something about
something does not necceceraly mean supporting it. Do you know what the
nazi's did with the jews? Well, how come you are claiming to know this,
if you (I'm sure of that) hate that practice?
> I believe it was David who
> called up Saul and Saul jumped his case for disturbing his rest..
Still, it was forbidden. Saul went in secret because it was not legal to
call up the spirit of the death. Samuel did not like it at all. If it
was Samuel.... Even if it was, do you see in this part: go ahead man,
call up the dead? I and I are the living dread in this dawn of the
living dead (Black Uhuru). I don't deal with dead, but with living!
Iman seh very clearly: it is wrong! Still, Iman know you laugh at I. You
think Iman a fool and Iman an idiot and maybe even an intolerant freak.
Don't mind. Jah love me! Jah loves you too!
In Yeshouah!
Messian Dread
drgnfist
Me Sion Dread wrote:
>
> Michael Staggs wrote:
>
> >
> > Messian Dread <mdr...@dds.nl> wrote in article <3315A9...@dds.nl>...
> >
> > > Does it contain the truth about it? Does it seh how much Jah hates all
> > > the occult and demonic things?
> >
> > Wrong religion.....that particular mythology belongs on another web page
>
> In a newsgroup dealing with JAH and His Word, as you know reggae for a
> big portion is in fact dealing with JAH, this answer ,Iman gave belongs
> in this newsgroup. What does voodoo have in common with JAH! Exorcism
> Devilism I nah deal with (Z. Marley).
>
> >
> > Does it reveal just how satan and his
> > > demons possesses the people dem?
> >
> > Again, wrong religion. The loa possess in voodoo....and that's a good
> > thing.
> What????!!!
> It is not good to be possesed by any spirit other than the Holy Spirit.
The Loa is a manifestation of the serpent as the Key to the Shaft of the
Abyss or PI. During the rite the recursive energies of the drummers and
dancers cause the Zero Point to open into a field. This Zero Field is
pregnant with the recursive energies and the serpent who is the
straightened diameter of the circle in its unmanifest form, is in
distortion and gives birth to the loa as a way of regaining justice or
equilibrium. A holy spirit? Transcendant to be sure as the irrational
number that brings forth the serpent of light upon the distortion of its
initial value is a very precise number that has no end, a paradox in
itself.
-Randy Lee Blain
"The Sun that died so that you could live came unto you in a supernova
rage."
Kiwi Carlisle
Me Sion Dread wrote:
>
> Michael Staggs wrote:
>
> >
> > Messian Dread <mdr...@dds.nl> wrote in article <3315A9...@dds.nl>...
> >
> > > Does it contain the truth about it? Does it seh how much Jah hates all
> > > the occult and demonic things?
> >
> > Wrong religion.....that particular mythology belongs on another web page
>
> In a newsgroup dealing with JAH and His Word, as you know reggae for a
> big portion is in fact dealing with JAH, this answer ,Iman gave belongs
> in this newsgroup. What does voodoo have in common with JAH! Exorcism
> Devilism I nah deal with (Z. Marley).
>
A whole lot snipped. Speaking of newsgroups, this really has nothing to do with
alt.pagan and alt.magic (a conjuring group!) Setting followups to exclude these
groups. If others think this thread irrelevant, I urge them to do the same.
-----
KIWI CARLISLE
CARL...@WUCHEM.WUSTL.EDU
My return address has been mangled to reduce spam.
raci...@aol.com
> What does voodoo have in common with JAH! Exorcism
>Devilism I nah deal with (Z. Marley).
Both the word 'Vodou' and the word 'Jah' are derived from African languages. Both are Afro-centric traditions. Both are maligned by ignorant or malevolent people, usually whites but sometimes also blacks.
Occult is a word used by whites to describe all types of non-mainstream spiritual practice, including certain branches of Christianity, Judaism (Kabbalah) and Islam (Sufism). In Vodou, the word 'occult' is meaningless - we do not consider our tradition to be 'occult', we consider it to be the pure and carefully preserved system of ceremonial address used by Africans of the diaspora.
Mambo Racine Sans But
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
fakir
As I understands it and as do most of the raders, the newsgroup
alt.magic concerns itself with conjuring, entertainment not religious
subjects. Would you pleae be careful in cross posting and not include
our newsgroup in those dealing with religious and mystic matters.
Thanks. Jack
jul...@ziplink.net
In article <331B6E...@mindspring.com>,
fla...@mindspring.com wrote:
> The Loa is a manifestation of the serpent as the Key to the Shaft of the
> Abyss or PI. During the rite the recursive energies of the drummers and
> dancers cause the Zero Point to open into a field. This Zero Field is
> pregnant with the recursive energies and the serpent who is the
> straightened diameter of the circle in its unmanifest form, is in
> distortion and gives birth to the loa as a way of regaining justice or
> equilibrium. A holy spirit? Transcendant to be sure as the irrational
> number that brings forth the serpent of light upon the distortion of its
> initial value is a very precise number that has no end, a paradox in
> itself.
>
> -Randy Lee Blain
> "The Sun that died so that you could live came unto you in a supernova
> rage."
You need to stop smoking that sh*t!
Julian Daclone
raci...@aol.com
>The Loa is a manifestation of the serpent as the Key to the Shaft of the
>Abyss or PI.
This author evidently has found the Key to the Shaft of the Abyss of BS.
Mambo Racine Sans But
Shez
In article <331B50...@wuchem.wustl.edu>, Kiwi Carlisle <"carlisle[SP
AMBLOCK/REMOVE]"@wuchem.wustl.edu> writes
>Me Sion Dread wrote:
>>
>> Michael Staggs wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Messian Dread <mdr...@dds.nl> wrote in article <3315A9...@dds.nl>...
>> >
>> > > Does it contain the truth about it? Does it seh how much Jah hates all
>> > > the occult and demonic things?
>> >
>> > Wrong religion.....that particular mythology belongs on another web page
>>
>> In a newsgroup dealing with JAH and His Word, as you know reggae for a
>> big portion is in fact dealing with JAH, this answer ,Iman gave belongs
>> Devilism I nah deal with (Z. Marley).
>>
>
>with
>alt.pagan and alt.magic (a conjuring group!) Setting followups to exclude
>these
>groups. If others think this thread irrelevant, I urge them to do the same.
>
>-----
>KIWI CARLISLE
>CARL...@WUCHEM.WUSTL.EDU
>My return address has been mangled to reduce spam.
an Excellent idea.
Messian Dread
Shez wrote:
> --
> Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
> The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
Old city: babylon
demon: a spiritual being of evil
uk: unighted kingdom of satan
Messian Dread
dirg...@aol.com
>
>> Again, wrong religion. The loa possess in voodoo....and that's a good
>> thing.
>What????!!!
>It is not good to be possesed by any spirit other than the Holy Spirit.
And can you be unaware that the Holy Spirit takes many forms, many names? Jesus, the Christ, asserted often and with firmness that all *His* power came, not from his own Godhood, but from The Spirit. When faced with accusers who declaimed His "Spirit" as that of Satan, The Resister of Mankind, Jesus rebuked them with the parable of the Strong Man. So I must rebuke you with the same tale!
Be good, for when you say "good" you say "God"
* English is the Lingua Franca
* No, I'm sorry, but Communism was just a Red Herring!
*
* All things Natural are under your sway;
* The power's in your word: be aware what you say!
Love, Light & Laughter
Di.R.Ge.
dirg...@aol.com
> During the rite the recursive energies of the drummers and
>dancers cause the Zero Point to open into a field. This Zero Field is
>pregnant with the recursive energies and the serpent who is the
>straightened diameter of the circle in its unmanifest form, is in
>distortion and gives birth to the loa as a way of regaining justice or
>equilibrium. A holy spirit? Transcendant to be sure as the irrational
>number that brings forth the serpent of light upon the distortion of its
>initial value is a very precise number that has no end, a paradox in
>itself.
Pseudo Scientific Claptrap. Try that language in Alt.Skeptics, and watch how very fast they pull that poetry of yours apart, word by word!
"...recursive energies..." Innndeed! LOL!
le...@earthlink.net
dear friend:
please, please relax. don't worry bout the moat in someone else's eye;
look at the beam in your own.
this is a newsgroup for people interested in a specific grouping of
practices & beliefs (with many local), and a whole mind-set
(spirituality=culture=life, not separate) that originated in Africa,
just as your I-thiopian concepts (spirituality=culture=life, not
separate) did, and were crossed with various other influences from
other cultures, just as your idea of Zion, Babylon and many
beliefs/structures of your practice were.
please don't enter if you are offended, but make your OWN network
stronger if you wish to communicate w/ rastafari. i realize that one
of the many guiding concepts of your practice is a belief that a Great
War against Babylon is coming down; however, i find that, similar to
many Fundamentalist Christian groups in the USA today, it's usually
these groups that are aggressively trying to START the war!
Santerians, Voudons, and/or any branch of Pagans/Old Religion
followers, etc. would never aggressively "witness" or convert
followers. anyone who does, is not of us. It is only the
Xtian-oriented or New/Old Testament followers who do so, and it's
going to be the CAUSE of the breakdowns in communication which follow.
and to be honest, i must put Rastafari in this group as well, despite
your wonderful music, culture and supposed "good vibrations". i think
it's too bad, because i think Rastafari is, or could be, a lot more
open-ended. i know one of its strengths is its adaptability, which has
helped it to persist all these years. perhaps if you researched your
history a little more, you would discover not only the many local
variations but the true African influences as well...influences that
you seem to disdain, for some reason.
don't be afraid of "duppies" like me...we're just trying to talk to
each other...
i hope that this has not contributed to any "war" but hopefully helped
you focus on exploring true African spiritual values of cooperation
and "a place for everything". i have just subscribed to this newsgroup
and the first posting i saw were people trying to break apart, instead
of coming together!! what the....?!
thank you for listening.
Eoghan Ballard
> dear friend:
> please, please relax. don't worry bout the moat in someone else's eye;
> look at the beam in your own.
> this is a newsgroup for people interested in a specific grouping of
> practices & beliefs (with many local), and a whole mind-set
> (spirituality=culture=life, not separate) that originated in Africa,
> just as your I-thiopian concepts (spirituality=culture=life, not
> separate) did, and were crossed with various other influences from
> other cultures, just as your idea of Zion, Babylon and many
> beliefs/structures of your practice were...
> and to be honest, i must put Rastafari in this group as well, despite
> your wonderful music, culture and supposed "good vibrations". i think
> it's too bad, because i think Rastafari is, or could be, a lot more
> open-ended. i know one of its strengths is its adaptability, which has
> helped it to persist all these years. perhaps if you researched your
> history a little more, you would discover not only the many local
> variations but the true African influences as well...influences that
> you seem to disdain, for some reason.
> don't be afraid of "duppies" like me...we're just trying to talk to
> each other...
> i hope that this has not contributed to any "war" but hopefully helped
> you focus on exploring true African spiritual values of cooperation
> and "a place for everything". i have just subscribed to this newsgroup
> and the first posting i saw were people trying to break apart, instead
> of coming together!! what the....?!
> thank you for listening.
It should be noted that in Trinidad it is not uncommon for Rastafarians to
perform as drummers for Orisha ceremonies. So, there IS a model for better
communication and mutual acceptance.
raci...@aol.com
Dread: fear, loathing, terror, horror, as of a foul or repellent object
Messian: a psychological complex characterized by delusions of Godliness.
Do you see how almost anything can be twisted? I never met people who could make something out of nothing like some of the "contributors" to rec.music.reggae.
Mambo Racine Sans But
raci...@aol.com
>> Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
>> The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Old city: babylon
>demon: a spiritual being of evil
>uk: unighted kingdom of satan
>
>
>Messian Dread
Dread: fear, loathing, terror, horror, as of a foul or repellent object.
Messian: a psychological complex characterized by delusions of Godliness.
Do you see how almost anything can be twisted? I never met people who could make something out of nothing like a few of the "contributors" to rec.music.reggae.
Mambo Racine Sans But
raci...@aol.com
>It should be noted that in Trinidad it is not uncommon for Rastafarians to
>perform as drummers for Orisha ceremonies. So, there IS a model for better
>communication and mutual acceptance.
Actually, I had always thought it quite normal and expected that Rastafarians would participate in other Afro-Caribbean spiritual traditions, and vice versa. African tradition in the Caribbean is non-exclusive; that is, one need not renounce one religious affiliation to participate in another - they are all considered paths or methods of spiritual growth.
May God/Goddess, the ancestors, and the lwa (orishas) be with you,
Mambo Racine Sans but
jul...@ziplink.net
In article <19970313185...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <eballard-130...@cgsmac45.sas.upenn.edu>,
ebal...@sas.upenn.edu (Eoghan Ballard) writes:
>
> >It should be noted that in Trinidad it is not uncommon for Rastafarians to
> >perform as drummers for Orisha ceremonies. So, there IS a model for better
> >communication and mutual acceptance.
>
racine sehd:
> Actually, I had always thought it quite normal and expected that Rastafarians
>would participate in other Afro-Caribbean spiritual traditions, and vice versa.
>African tradition in the Caribbean is non-exclusive; that is, one need not
>renounce one religious affiliation to participate in another - they are all
>considered paths or methods of spiritual growth.
Some of dem guys think they are above Haitians, trust me, I know.... I
have met some of dem..... But, dem are nuttin' but blood cloth....
mon.... ;-)
Julian "Duppy know wha fi foo" de Clone
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <19970313162...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com sehd:
> Dread: fear, loathing, terror, horror, as of a foul or repellent object.
> Messian: a psychological complex characterized by delusions of Godliness.
You know Bob Marley's songs
"Natty dread, rise again" ?
Or "Duppy conqueror"?
What is a natty dread? What is a duppy?
Aly
raci...@aol.com
>What is a natty dread? What is a duppy?
>
>Aly
A "natty dread" is a man who wears dreadlocks, a "duppy conqueror" is one who has triumphed over illusions ("duppy" is Jamaican patois for "ghost".)
BTW, this appearance of Jamaican issues on soc.culture.haiti is because of me, for better or worse. I have an avocation as a reggae singer, and in the course of posting to rec.music.reggae I discussed such topics as reggae in Haiti and so forth. The result was a torrent of anti-Haitian and anti-Vodou invective from a few rmr contributors (I use the term loosley). To avoid repeating myself in responses to anti-Vodou statements, I posted the URL of "The VODOU Page" to rec.music.reggae at the same time that I posted it to seven other pertinent newsgroups. That is why you see some reggae-related posts appearing here.
Thank you for your patience.
Mambo Racine Sans But
haic...@aol.com
Off the AP wire -
.c The Associated Press
By JOSE MONEGRO
SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic (AP) - The president withdrew
his ambassador to Haiti on Tuesday, amid rising tension over his
government's mass deportation of Haitian immigrants.
President Leonel Fernandez reassigned Ambassador Eladio Kniping
Victoria to Panama, the president's office said in a statement.
There was no word when a successor would be named or on the reason
for the move.
In the last six weeks, the Dominican Republic has expelled about
20,000 people of Haitian descent, many forced out with just the
clothes they wore. Others had to leave behind children. The
Dominican Republic has said the immigrants were in their country
illegally.
The countries share the Caribbean island of Hispaniola.
Thousands of impoverished Haitians seek work in the Dominican
Republic, whose economy is healthier.
Haiti has said many of the deportees were Dominican-born and
that Dominican authorities have been rounding up anyone who they
believe looks Haitian.
Most Haitians are descended from African slaves; Dominicans are
of mixed African and European descent.
Haitian President Rene Preval has accused the Dominicans of
treating the deportees like ``animals.''
Last week, Fernandez agreed to call a temporary halt to the
deportations.
AP-NY-03-04-97 2154EST
Copyright 1997 The Associated Press.
julian
> In the last six weeks, the Dominican Republic has expelled about
> 20,000 people of Haitian descent, many forced out with just the
> clothes they wore. Others had to leave behind children. The
> Dominican Republic has said the immigrants were in their country
> illegally.
Do you suppose the Dominicans in Haiti... (you know who they are)...
are in possession of legal papers??? If not, why don't we retaliate
in kind? Why do we always have to be the nice guys??
> Haiti has said many of the deportees were Dominican-born and
> that Dominican authorities have been rounding up anyone who they
> believe looks Haitian.
Now, that is f*cked up! What will become of those kids?
You know though, there are some very complex dynamics at
play in the Dominico-Haitiano conflict, let's name a few:
1- Race, (DR is "BROWN), Haiti is "BLACK". I suspect DR does not
want to make her population any "BROWNER"...
2- DR never forgave Haiti for total occupation of the island
under Dessalines, Soulouque and Boyer.
3- Dominican politicos are exacerbating the volatile situation.
Add all those ingredients, and you get the recipe for
disaster to boot....
> Haitian President Rene Preval has accused the Dominicans of
> treating the deportees like ``animals.''
Preval needs to move to the DR.....
Julian Daclone
Maroule
haic...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Off the AP wire -
>
> .c The Associated Press
> In the last six weeks, the Dominican Republic has expelled about
> 20,000 people of Haitian descent, many forced out with just the
> clothes they wore. Others had to leave behind children. The
> Dominican Republic has said the immigrants were in their country
> illegally.
Aly wrote back:
>Do you suppose the Dominicans in Haiti... (you know who they are)...
>are in possession of legal papers??? If not, why don't we retaliate
>in kind? Why do we always have to be the nice guys??
Maybe it's time we invade them again. (Lest anybody responds with
righteous indignation, this was a small joke, rally, honestly, trust me,
just a little joke)
lau...@mass-usr.com
On 18 Mar 1997 06:32:10 GMT, mar...@aol.com (Maroule) wrote:
>
> haic...@aol.com wrote:
[snip]:
>
> >Do you suppose the Dominicans in Haiti... (you know who they are)...
> >are in possession of legal papers??? If not, why don't we retaliate
> >in kind? Why do we always have to be the nice guys??
>
> Maybe it's time we invade them again. (Lest anybody responds with
> righteous indignation, this was a small joke, rally, honestly, trust me,
> just a little joke)
>
may misunderstand.... :-) Some of us are humor impaired, you
know that....
Aly "will see ya in N.Y" Laurent
--
Posted using Reference.COM http://www.reference.com
Browse, Search and Post Usenet and Mailing list Archive and Catalog.
InReference, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content of this posting.
raci...@aol.com
>1- Race, (DR is "BROWN), Haiti is "BLACK". I suspect DR does not
>want to make her population any "BROWNER"...
DR wants to be WHITE! Over the summer, I went to a Hispanic festival in Massachusetts. The difference in appearance between Puerto Ricans and people from the Dominican Republic was really remarkable:
Most of the Puerto Ricans present had naturally dark hair, but quite a few had dyed their hair jet-black. Their hairstyles and makeups were reminiscent of black Americans and also of images of Native Americans of the Caribbean (Taino, Arawak,. Carib) I have seen. They very definitely looked "non-white", regardless of the shade of their complexion.
The Dominican Republic's representatives, on the other hand, especially the women, had bleached hair, wore pale pink shades in makeup, dressed "white" (excuse the generalizations, but you know what I mean), and tried to avoid identification with the Puerto Ricans.
I also noted that Dominicans in Haiti loved to be called 'blan'.
Hmph!
Mambo Racine Sans But
lau...@mass-usr.com
On 18 Mar 1997 06:32:10 GMT, mar...@aol.com (Maroule) wrote:
> Aly wrote back:
>
> >Do you suppose the Dominicans in Haiti... (you know who they are)...
> >are in possession of legal papers??? If not, why don't we retaliate
> >in kind? Why do we always have to be the nice guys??
Da Clone did.... :-) Check your reader again....
Aly
julian
r.izq...@codetel.net.do wrote in response to my post castigating
the Dominican Republic vis-a-vis their treatment of Haitians:
> I think when you talk about the treatment of haitians by dominicans you
> should first improve the way hatians treat hatians, and then talk about
> anything else!
>
What utter nonsense! The way Haitians treat Haitians is not on trial here,
but if you want to use it as a red-herring to skirt the issue all-together,
go ahead!
> It is avery nations right to deport ilegal aliens, everybody does it,
True, but when the reasons are dictated by jingoism and racism, it becomes
a crime against humanity.
> and
> I think that if there are ilegal aliens in haiti, let them be dominican or
> not, the goberment there has the same right of deporting them as the
> dominicans do.
>
See, you would like the Haitians to do just that, only because it would
make it easy for you to realize your ultimate dream, wouldn't it?
> When you talk about forgivenes of the hatian occupation I think you should
> think about reality, reality is Haiti is the poorest nation in the western
> hemisphere, and no one and I mean no one wants part in that.
My dear friend, there is no shame in being poor, but there is a greater
shame in being arrogant, selfish and racist. perhaps you should try
being poor for a few days, you may acquire some humility and become
human again....
> Now that is reality not fiction.
Who ever denied that Haiti is poor? We maybe poor, but we dream rich
and big, and we posess certain human attributes that assholes like
you can only dream about! We have dignity and a strong will to
survive, we maybe down, but definitely not out, and in the end
we will, and we must overcome! THAT, is a reality, for every dog
has his day....
Julian
Maroule
r.izq...@codetel.net.do wrote in response to Aly's post castigating
the Dominican Republic vis-a-vis their treatment of Haitians:
> When you talk about forgivenes of the hatian occupation I think you
>should think about reality, reality is Haiti is the poorest nation in the
>western hemisphere, and no one and I mean no one wants part in that.
Aly wrote back:
>My dear friend, there is no shame in being poor, but there is a greater
>shame in being arrogant, selfish and racist. perhaps you should try
>being poor for a few days, you may acquire some humility and become
>human again....
Well, Aly, maybe the solution is what I originally suggested: we should
invade them again. We can even enlist a special SCH Diaspora regiment to
go fight. We might call ourselves the fighting SCHers. All in favor say:
Aye.
lau...@mass-usr.com
On 24 Mar 1997 04:22:09 GMT, mar...@aol.com (Maroule) wrote:
> r.izq...@codetel.net.do wrote in response to Aly's post castigating
> the Dominican Republic vis-a-vis their treatment of Haitians:
>
> > When you talk about forgivenes of the hatian occupation I think you
> >should think about reality, reality is Haiti is the poorest nation in the
> >western hemisphere, and no one and I mean no one wants part in that.
>
> Aly wrote back:
>
> >My dear friend, there is no shame in being poor, but there is a greater
> >shame in being arrogant, selfish and racist. perhaps you should try
> >being poor for a few days, you may acquire some humility and become
> >human again....
>
> Well, Aly, maybe the solution is what I originally suggested: we should
> invade them again. We can even enlist a special SCH Diaspora regiment to
> go fight. We might call ourselves the fighting SCHers. All in favor say:
> Aye.
BTW, Julian wrote that stuff, not me..... ;-)
Messian Dread
I and I, whether Rasta or Messian, should never ever give our support
to the wicked religions of the ancestors.
Rastafarians and Messians you know, them accept the Bible and the
Bibile is the Word of Jah the Most High, so I tell you when Jah Jah
forbid the wickedness we have to follow Jah.
Jah does not want us to participate in any calls for the death. He
wants us to stay clean and pure from that kind of filth. It has got
nothing to do with acceptance because I and I accept each and everyone
but I and I never accept the wicked schemes that derive out of
babylon. You do not fool I and tell I it is an afrikan religion
because as I have stated so many times before it comes out of babylon
for sure.
Devilism I don't deal with, says Ziggy Marley.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for I an I as brethrens
and sistrens to dwell together in Inity and love
Greetings and Jah guidance
Ras Messian Dread (1 Peter 2:9)
raci...@aol.com
>I and I, whether Rasta or Messian, should never ever give our support
>to the wicked religions of the ancestors.
Now this is EXACTLY what I mean when I say that you need to develop
respect for Africa and for the children of Africa in the Caribbean.
The original post, if memory serves, was from a Trini man who said,
if I recall correctly, that in his experience it was quite normal and
accepted in Trinidad for Rasta drummers to play at orisha services.
But you, posting "from the forests of Friesland......", and Fitaurari, from
the wilds of California, are going to tell HIM how to run HIS culture in
HIS country. YOU think you are supposed to TELL HIM what to do.
Learn respect, learn, learn, learn.
Nicole Shields
You and you needs to learn good grammer
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <5h8jg0$cn1$5...@neptune.worldonline.nl>,
mdr...@dds.nl wrote:
>
> I and I, whether Rasta or Messian, should never ever give our support
> to the wicked religions of the ancestors.
>
> Bibile is the Word of Jah the Most High, so I tell you when Jah Jah
> forbid the wickedness we have to follow Jah.
>
> Jah does not want us to participate in any calls for the death. He
> wants us to stay clean and pure from that kind of filth. It has got
> nothing to do with acceptance because I and I accept each and everyone
> but I and I never accept the wicked schemes that derive out of
> babylon. You do not fool I and tell I it is an afrikan religion
> because as I have stated so many times before it comes out of babylon
> for sure.
>
> Devilism I don't deal with, says Ziggy Marley.
> Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for I an I as brethrens
> and sistrens to dwell together in Inity and love
>
> Greetings and Jah guidance
>
> Ras Messian Dread (1 Peter 2:9)
Intoxication: State of maximum confusion induced by imbibing too much
C2H6O and inhaling too much cannabis.....
C2H6O: Vernacularly known as booze.
Cannabis: Dried leaves vernacularly known as marijuana or reefer or ganja.
Aly "Guardian of da hous'" Laurent
Michael Staggs
Nicole Shields <nshi...@sophia.smith.edu> wrote
Nicole, we shouldn't be too hard on him. It's obvious this is a kid who is
engaged in roleplaying. It doesn't belong here, but half the other things
on this group don't either.
Btw, I saw nothing wrong with your message. I just left this as a wakeup
call to him.
lau...@mass-usr.com
In article <19970325152...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <5h8jg0$cn1$5...@neptune.worldonline.nl>, mdr...@dds.nl (Messian
Dread) writes:
>
> >I and I, whether Rasta or Messian, should never ever give our support
> >to the wicked religions of the ancestors.
>
> respect for Africa and for the children of Africa in the Caribbean.
>
> The original post, if memory serves, was from a Trini man who said,
> if I recall correctly, that in his experience it was quite normal and
> accepted in Trinidad for Rasta drummers to play at orisha services.
>
> But you, posting "from the forests of Friesland......", and Fitaurari, from
> the wilds of California, are going to tell HIM how to run HIS culture in
> HIS country. YOU think you are supposed to TELL HIM what to do.
>
> Learn respect, learn, learn, learn.
>
Racine, you are not listening...
I toldya, mdread needs to lay off that pipe he has been smoking....
Aly
Oya & Pomba
I wonder what motivated this person to write this and post it to the
groups that he chose? Babylon indeed. Sounds like a white Ceremonial
perspective. Not very Rasta at all.
XXX-The Gris Gris Lady.
--
*********************************************************************
Pomba Gira Botanica
New Age & Religious Goods
Tarot, Candles, Oils, Jewelry, Statues,
Magick & Spirit Shop
240 East 28th Street (212) 532-7272
New York, NY 10016 Jon Frater or Madison Toth
E-Mail: oyap...@chelsea.ios.com
*********************************************************************
Al Billings
> I wonder what motivated this person to write this and post it to the
>groups that he chose? Babylon indeed. Sounds like a white Ceremonial
>perspective. Not very Rasta at all.
> XXX-The Gris Gris Lady.
Oh, looky, the fake Voudon practitioners are back!!! We should go
tell Mambo Racine that you're back. You seem to fade away awfully
quick when an actual mambo shows up.
Are you willing to say who your initiators are yet?
Bunny and/or Roy
Al Billings (mi...@memoria.com) wrote:
: On Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:06:33 -0500, oyap...@chelsea.ios.com (Oya &
: Pomba) wrote:
: > I wonder what motivated this person to write this and post it to the
: >groups that he chose? Babylon indeed. Sounds like a white Ceremonial
: >perspective. Not very Rasta at all.
: > XXX-The Gris Gris Lady.
I'm not knowledgable enough to speak for this person's authenticity,
but I can tell you that "Babylon" is an important concept in Rasta
thought.
Leonard Barrett, in his book, "The Rastafarians", gives several
definitions of "Babylon", as Rastas use th word. Part of what the
term implies is a analogous relationship between the Old Testament
Jews incaptivity in the biblical Babylon, and Africans in captivity in
the Americas. "Babylon", in Rastafarian terms is a place of
oppression, or the oppressors themselves and their agents. For
example, Jamaica could be called "Babylon", so could its government,
or its police.
Ethiopia is the "promised land" of Rasta theology, and the end of the
journey out of "Babylon" for the African diaspora. When you
understand this notion, Rasta's veneration of Haile Selassie begins
to make more sense, at least, in their terms.
It's also worth mentioning that Rastas have their own way of using the
English language. Many Black Jamaicans speak a dialect of English
most Americans find incomprehensible. Some Jamaican poets and writers
call it "nation language". Jamaican Rastas speak the Jamaican patois,
but they have their own special words and usages that reflect their
theology and philosophy, and serve as shibboleths as well.
Rastas believe we are what we say. Their idiosyncratic language comes
partly from an effort to remove or modify usages that they believe
reflect negative, self-defeating, or otherwise inappropriate ideas.
An example is "I and I"...it means "you and me", or "we", or a general
collective pronoun. The two "I's" are meant to indicate that there is
no real difference between "you" and "me" (especially if "we" are
Rastas), that we are all part of Jah's (God's) creation, and thus,
part of each other.
Anyway, I can't say if the person posting the original "Rasta" thread
was for real or not, but he did have some of the right words.
Roy
--
"Papa Hegel he say that all we learn from history is that we learn nothing
from history. *I* know people who can't even learn from what happened this
morning. Hegel must have been taking the long view."
(John Brunner, "Stand on Zanzibar")