Is Greece a theocracy?

[Sigge]

Some days ago, ERT-World the Greek sattelite Channel that spreads the
Greek Light to us barbarians, had a lengthy report from stinky
Instanbul, ex Constantinople/second Rome, concerning the visit of
Archbishop of Athens to Patriarch Bartholomaios.

Last evening, ERT-World between the usual reports about Karamanlis
being aplauded while going to the toilet and the ampelophilosophies
about Sex and the City, showed the same Bartholomaios performing
religious duties in Larisa. The scene was not at all civilized.
Religious fanatics outside the Church shouted insults against
Bartholomaios for some dogmatic matter . Scenes reminding anyone that
the scourge of Religion is still present in Greece!
http://www.ethnos.gr/article.asp?catid=11424&subid=2&tag=8400&pubid=980456
Bartholomaios met with the USA Ambassador. Even that meeting was
reported in the News.
Such reporting is not unusual in Islamic Dictatorships but Greece is
in EU.

Is Greece a Theocracy?

[mpsur...@gmail.com]

I don't disagree that Mighty Greece is a bit of a Christian Theocracy.

But an unbiased observation at all western democracies will reveal
that no constitutional decoupling between church and state is perfect.
Don't you agree that most western governments are more loyal to
Christianity than any other religion? Don't you see that as a guiding
factor in their foreign policy? Doesn't that smell like an unwritten
theocracy of sorts? Even multi-cultural Canada which outwardly forbids
mention of the phrase Christmass tree finds itself on the Christian
side of the war against terror. One is provoked to wonder how if not
by subtle theocratic means. Right?

[Sigge]

Most western governments are loyal first to atheism (it produces the
goods), then to secularism and then to Christianity. But there is a
disturbing exception, that of USA, where the new evangelists make
their presence felt. Canada is far too unimportant.
Here in Sweden ( a rather typical western country) very few notice
that there is a Church. You are born, get a name, marry, divorce, die,
buried or burnt without coming in contact with the Church. Only the
tax authorities.Very few know who the Archbishop is. The Church
matters are never referred to on TV or other mass media. They simply
do not exist. And more important the Church has no say whatsoever in
political and cultural matters.

The recent conflict between Islam and West may justify your statement
"western governments are more loyal to Christianity". But not
(unfortunately!) in their foreign policy.

What my point was:

The Greek state has allowed the Greek Church to have a say on state
and cultural matters that is totally foreign to EU. A complete
secularization is urgently needed.

[a11orios]

On 16 May, 01:33, Sigge <Riace.Warr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What my point was:
>
> The Greek state has allowed the Greek Church to have a say on state
> and cultural matters that is totally foreign to EU. A complete
> secularization is urgently needed.

Sorry, your point is wrong. In more than a few ways. First of all, the
church of Greece, and most other churches (catholic even more so), are
companies with huge influence. That's everywhere. We are talking about
billions and billions of cash and other assets (and supporters). In
capitalist countries, money talks, and even small churches like that
of scientology have influence. That you don't feel the church'
influence in Sweeden just means they are more subtle in what they do.
The catholic church is no better than the orthodox. Greece is no less
secular than any other capitalist country.

[stef]

a11orios wrote:

Αλλότριε η ιδιαιτερότητα και μοναδικότητα της Ελλάδας σε σχέση με τις άλλες
ευρωπαικές χώρες έγκειται στην *έκταση* του πλέγματος των διατάξεων που
αφορούν τις σχέσεις εκκλησίας-κράτους. Συμφωνώ ότι με την πιθανή εξαίρεση
της Γαλλίας σχεδόν καμμία χώρα δεν είναι εντελώς ανεξίθρησκη, όμως πουθενά
αλλού δεν διαπιστώνεται τόσο έντονα και σε τόσα επίπεδα η σύνδεση κράτους
και εκκλησίας. Αναφέρομαι σε Συνταγματικό επίπεδο. Η εκκλησία της Ελλάδας
δεν αποτελεί company. Δεν είναι νομικό πρόσωπο ιδιωτικού δικαίου. (Μακάρι
να ήταν)

[Sigge]

Thanks for the lesson.
Your line of thought is very deep and I am not in a position to
follow.
On the other hand I am a narrow-minded mathematician.
That explains why I am so ignorant about Church matters here in
Sweden.

I thought that it matters to the Greeks that the other European
Nations regard them as theocracy.
But I was told by the pundits that all more or less are theocracies.

[Xtes-00k]

In regard to Sweden being ..."Un-Theocratic"

 

Would somebody explain this:

Sweden is known to have the most sucides in Europe ....

 

Changes in the suicide rate in Sweden have been studied over the period 1749–1975. It has risen from about 2 per 100,000 inhabitants at the middle of the 18th century to about 20 per 100,000 during the period 1971–1975. Thus a more than tenfold increase is evident. From the non-standardized figures a real and substantial increase can be demonstrated which becomes even more apparent after standardization. This increase is independent of variations in the age composition of the population. The increase has occurred in the younger age groups: between the ages of 20 and 35 years, i.e. during the most active years of life, suicide is the leading cause of death today. An account of legislative measures for suicide prevention during this period is also presented.

There is considerable support for the assumption that the lower suicide rate registered in Sweden up to the beginning of the 19th century was an effect of the powerful influence of religion over the population.

etc....

 

Xtes-00k

"Sigge" <Riace....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b1d7c22f-41a7-48e1...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

[Sigge]

On May 16, 8:30 pm, "Xtes-00k" <christes...@optonline.net> wrote:
> In regard to Sweden being ..."Un-Theocratic"
>
> Would somebody explain this:
> Sweden is known to have the most sucides in Europe ....
>

> Changes in the suicide rate in Sweden have been studied over the period 1749-1975. It has risen from about 2 per 100,000 inhabitants at the middle of the 18th century to about 20 per 100,000 during the period 1971-1975. Thus a more than tenfold increase is evident. From the non-standardized figures a real and substantial increase can be demonstrated which becomes even more apparent after standardization. This increase is independent of variations in the age composition of the population. The increase has occurred in the younger age groups: between the ages of 20 and 35 years, i.e. during the most active years of life, suicide is the leading cause of death today. An account of legislative measures for suicide prevention during this period is also presented.

> There is considerable support for the assumption that the lower suicide rate registered in Sweden up to the beginning of the 19th century was an effect of the powerful influence of religion over the population.
> etc....
>
> Xtes-00k

This is culture.greek

We discuss here problems that concern Greece.

What has the rate of suicide in Sweden and its historical development
to do with the theocratic aspects of Greece? Obviously nothing!
Mr 000 start a new thread in some religious group.

[Lucky Velotres]

Greeks must abandon the orientalist depravity.
Greeks invented the west, they don ot need east.
http://www.geocities.com/gcomney/goatrfm.html