computer terminology in Greek
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
>To apotelesma itan stis arhes etoutou tou aiwna, otan arhisan na mega-
>lwnoun ta ellinika panepistimia -- an den me apataei i mnimi mou to
>Aristoteleio idrithike tin dekaetia tou 1930 -- i elliniki orologia
>stin mathimatiki analisi na 'nai leipsi.
Den mporw na katalabw giati swnei kai kala prepei na ellhnikopoihsoume
ta panta. Dustuxws h glwssa mas den exei thn katallhlh orologia. H
tha kanoume swsth orologia (eukolo se merikes episthmes alla polu
duskolo se alles opws px computer science) h tha synexisoume na
xrishmopoioume agglika.
> Fantazomai pws kapws etsi ehei kai i katastasi ston tomea twn ipologi-
> stwn: i elliniki orologia einai akoma sta spargana. Meta apo kammia
> dekaria hronia ta pragmata tha einai pio strwta kai katano.i.ta kai
Mhn ksexnas oti to computer science exei pollh 'slang' h opoia den
uparxei se toso megalo bathmo se alles episthmes. Spoudasa kai
politikos mhxanikos (KATEE :-)) sthn Ellada kai h orologia eixe nohma
kai sta Ellhnika kai sta Agglika. Oi oroi eitan polly pio katanohtoi,
p.x. Proentetameno Skyrodema == Pretensioned Concrete, Anoigma ==
Span, soil mechanics == edafomhxanikh (yea!!!), kai loipa.
Auto einai kyriws giati polles alles episthmes askolountai me pragmata
ta opoia einai xeiropiasta, i.e. concrete, iron, volt-meter, etc.
To Computer science den einai kai toso xeiropiasto, kai ektws autwn
h orologia exei terastio poso slang h lekseis pou den metafrazontai
swsta oso kai na xtypame to kefali mas ston toixo:
English Greek
------------------- -------------------
Editor
Font
Desktop Publishing
Data Structures
Linked list
log in
reverse polish notation
regression suite
attack dialer
pixel
cut-and-paste
Epishs o megaluteros xabales sto computer science einai oti ena megalo
pososto apo thn orologia einai kathimerines lekseis, oi opoies pali
den metafrazontai...
English Greek
------------------- -------------------
queue
kill a process
fork
spool
pipe
bus
address bus
sink
thread
window
mouse
widget
gadget
scroll
pie chart
For advanced cases only: translate the paragraph below into Greek:
"This graphical user interface, running under the X windows system,
uses a variety of widgets to facilitate user interaction. The
interface uses a number of radio box buttons, sliding scales, and
scrollable text fields to accept compiler input parameters. A
pushbutton then executes the compiler in the background and
displays the results in the appropriate window. The user can always
interrupt the compiler with the "abort" button".
> -- efhomai -- hwris ilithies ekfraseis san ki afti pou eipe kapoios:
<minor flame on>
Oxi kai ilitha re filara... kai 'kapoios'... Sevasmo sta ghrateia re!
Fagame th zwh mas sto net kai ante kai kala eimaste 'kapoios' :-)
> pipe = tsimpoukwnw
>
> [ Ma an einai dinaton! Edw to <<pipe>> ehei tin enoia tou AGWGOU ki ohi
> tis PIPAS :-) ]
An exeis xalasei 10 xronia grafontas Unix shell scripts (among other
things) to 'pipe' exei bebaiws thn ennoia tou tsimpoukiou. ls | wc -l
einai eukolo, alla gia neofytous einai maniki (i.e. dyskolo). Pws leme
sta ellhnika, "tsimpouki h katastash", dhladh "h katastash einai
duskolh"... Opws leme "Paparia dike mou",
<minor flame off>
Re paidia, edw exoume "Hamburger Shops" kai "SALES" kai "HOTELS" kai
"BOUZOUKI CLUBS" kai "TOURIST BEECH" [sic :-)] kai ta "data
structures" mas peiraksan?
Spiros "English or Bust"
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
OUZO POWER stri...@st486.UUCP
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
> Opws blepeis, proxeira mporeis na metafraseis para polla (kai
> tha einai kai pio katanoita sta Ellinika, arkei na
> xrisimopoiithoun aples lekseis - oxi leksi pros leksi
> metafrasi). Fysika einai apolyta fysiologiko na exeis *kai*
> ksenes lekseis mesa sta Ellinika, gia diaforous logous. Omws
> pisteuw pws xreiazetai ena metro ("Pan metron ariston" pou
> elegan kai oi Arxaioi).
Yparxoun arketa problhmata me 'proxeires metafraseis'.
Prwta apo ola, xreiazesai na perigrapseis me merikes lekseis kati pou
sta Agglika einai mia-dyo lekseis. 'Desktop publishing' or 'editor'
gia paradeigma.
Meta, prepei oloi na sumfwnhsoun na xrhsimopoioun thn orologia sou.
Auto einai poly optimistic. Edw emeis san laos den sumfwnoume se
tipota, sto 'KME' vs. 'CPU' tha symfwnhsoume?
Trito, para polloi kai polles episthmones sthn Ellada einai
ekpaideumenoi sto ekswteriko. Einai poly duskolo na katafereis
tetoious anthrwpous na xrhsimopoihsoun ellhnika gia kati pou exoun
spoudasei se allh glwssa (kyriws agglika). Oses fores prospathsa na
milhsw computer-greek me allous ellhnes, oi mises mou kouventes einai
'pws to lene auto sta ellhnika re', h to gurizoume oloi sta agglika.
Tetarto, mia kai den uparxei upodomh kai biomhxanikh bash ths prokophs
sthn Ellada gia autoxthonh (indigenous) computer industry, polla apo
ta proionta einai apo to ekswteriko. Pws tha katalavoun oi ithageneis
(natives :-) an den kseroun agglika/allh glwssa? An perimenoun na
metafrasei h kathe etairia to manual (kai eidika gia peiratika
programmata pou einai h afrokrema ths agoras sthn Ellada) prokopsame.
Spiros
Yannis Schoinas
metafrash toy Panayoti kai me '' poy ua xrhsimopoioysa
aytoysio ton aggliko oro.
p...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD) writes:
>In <921103154...@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>Auto einai kyriws giati polles alles episthmes askolountai me pragmata
>>ta opoia einai xeiropiasta, i.e. concrete, iron, volt-meter, etc.
>>To Computer science den einai kai toso xeiropiasto, kai ektws autwn
>>h orologia exei terastio poso slang h lekseis pou den metafrazontai
>>swsta oso kai na xtypame to kefali mas ston toixo:
>> English Greek
>> ------------------- -------------------
>> Editor Ekdotis ''
>> Font ??? ''
>> Desktop Publishing ??? ''
>> Data Structures Domes Dedomenwn ""
>> Linked list Syndedemeni Lista ""
>> log in syndeomai == connect ''
Allo pragma to ena allo to allo,
gia na petyxei h metafrash den prepei
na dhmioyrgei asafeies.
>> reverse polish notation Antistrofi Polwniki simeiografia (?) '' or ""
>> regression suite ??? ''
>> attack dialer ??? ''
Ayto shzhtietai kata poso einai texnikos oros
>> pixel simeio, koukida ''
>> cut-and-paste sbise kai antigrapse ''
Einai sygkekrimenh energeia. Den exei nohma
h metafrash ths.
>>Epishs o megaluteros xabales sto computer science einai oti ena megalo
>>pososto apo thn orologia einai kathimerines lekseis, oi opoies pali
>>den metafrazontai...
>> English Greek
>> ------------------- -------------------
>> queue Oura ""
>> kill a process sbyse mia diadikasia skotvse mia DIERGASIA
>> fork dimiourgise(?) == create ''
Eipame gia asafeies, to fork
shmioyrgei ena ANTIGRAFO mias diergasias.
>> spool ??? spool
>> pipe dioxeteuse/agwgos pipa(ayto einai ellhnikh slang)
>> bus lewforos (oxi sokaki,:-) bus
>> address bus lewforos dieythynsewn ''
>> sink ??? kataboura einai o
ellhnikos texnikos oros ''|""
>> thread ??? ''
>> window parathyro ""
>> mouse pontiki ""
>> widget ??? ''
>> gadget mpixlimpidi(!?) ''
>> scroll ??? ''
>> pie chart ??? ''
>>
>>For advanced cases only: translate the paragraph below into Greek:
>> "This graphical user interface, running under the X windows system,
>> uses a variety of widgets to facilitate user interaction. The
>> interface uses a number of radio box buttons, sliding scales, and
>> scrollable text fields to accept compiler input parameters. A
>> pushbutton then executes the compiler in the background and
>> displays the results in the appropriate window. The user can always
>> interrupt the compiler with the "abort" button".
Ayto to graphical user interface, poy trexei katv apo to X window system,
xrhsimopoiei mia poikilia apo widgets gia na deykolynei thn user interaction.
# To problhma einai oti "graphical user interface" kai "user interaction"
# einai sxedon texnikoi oroi me sygkekrimeno nohma.
To interface xrhsimopoiei enan ariumo apo radio box buttons, sliding
scales kai scrollable texts fields gia na dextei input parameters
apo ton compiler.
# Exv kapoio problhma na metafrasv to input san eisodo giati an akoysv
# "parametroi eisodoy" den moy erxetai kateyueian to "input parameters"
# sto myalo.
Ena pushbutton prokalei thn ektelesh toy compiler
sto background kai deixnei ta apotelesmata sto katallhlo parauyro.
O xrhsths mporei panta na diakocei ton compiler me to "abort" button.
>Opws blepeis, proxeira mporeis na metafraseis para polla (kai
>tha einai kai pio katanoita sta Ellinika, arkei na
>xrisimopoiithoun aples lekseis - oxi leksi pros leksi
>metafrasi). Fysika einai apolyta fysiologiko na exeis *kai*
>ksenes lekseis mesa sta Ellinika, gia diaforous logous. Omws
>pisteuw pws xreiazetai ena metro ("Pan metron ariston" pou
>elegan kai oi Arxaioi).
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD
>Auto einai kyriws giati polles alles episthmes askolountai me pragmata
>ta opoia einai xeiropiasta, i.e. concrete, iron, volt-meter, etc.
>To Computer science den einai kai toso xeiropiasto, kai ektws autwn
>h orologia exei terastio poso slang h lekseis pou den metafrazontai
>swsta oso kai na xtypame to kefali mas ston toixo:
> English Greek
> ------------------- -------------------
> Editor Ekdotis
> Font ???
> Desktop Publishing ???
> Data Structures Domes Dedomenwn
> Linked list Syndedemeni Lista
> log in syndeomai
> reverse polish notation Antistrofi Polwniki simeiografia (?)
> regression suite ???
> attack dialer ???
> pixel simeio, koukida
> cut-and-paste sbise kai antigrapse
>Epishs o megaluteros xabales sto computer science einai oti ena megalo
>pososto apo thn orologia einai kathimerines lekseis, oi opoies pali
>den metafrazontai...
> English Greek
> ------------------- -------------------
> queue Oura
> kill a process sbyse mia diadikasia
> fork dimiourgise(?)
> spool ???
> pipe dioxeteuse/agwgos
> bus lewforos
> address bus lewforos dieythynsewn
> sink ???
> thread ???
> window parathyro
> mouse pontiki
> widget ???
> gadget mpixlimpidi(!?)
> scroll ???
> pie chart ???
>
>For advanced cases only: translate the paragraph below into Greek:
> "This graphical user interface, running under the X windows system,
> uses a variety of widgets to facilitate user interaction. The
> interface uses a number of radio box buttons, sliding scales, and
> scrollable text fields to accept compiler input parameters. A
> pushbutton then executes the compiler in the background and
> displays the results in the appropriate window. The user can always
> interrupt the compiler with the "abort" button".
Opws blepeis, proxeira mporeis na metafraseis para polla (kai
tha einai kai pio katanoita sta Ellinika, arkei na
xrisimopoiithoun aples lekseis - oxi leksi pros leksi
metafrasi). Fysika einai apolyta fysiologiko na exeis *kai*
ksenes lekseis mesa sta Ellinika, gia diaforous logous. Omws
pisteuw pws xreiazetai ena metro ("Pan metron ariston" pou
elegan kai oi Arxaioi).
>--
>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
>OUZO POWER stri...@st486.UUCP
Filika
Panayotis
--
UUCP: p...@qmw-dcs.uucp | Computer Science Dept | "H Rwmania
Internet: p...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | QMW University of London | kai an
JANET: p...@uk.ac.qmw.dcs | Mile End Road | eperasen,
Voice: +44 71 975 5220 | London E1 4NS | anthei kai
FAX: +44 81 980 6533 | | ferei kai
Cellphone: Too expensive to fit allon"
Apostolos Karmirantzos
>fili...@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU) writes:
> English Greek
> ------------------- -------------------
> Editor
> Linked list
Syndedemenes Listes
> queue
Oyra
> pipe
Agwgos ?
> bus
Diadromos
> address bus
Diadromos Dieyuynsewn
> window
Parauyro
> mouse
Pontiki
>Spiros "English or Bust"
>--
>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
>OUZO POWER stri...@st486.UUCP
Merika einai eykola na metafrastoyn. Ta alla omws symfwnw oti einai
arketa dyskola gia metafrash, dedomenoy oti arketa apo ayta exoyn allo
nohma apo oti sthn kauhmerinh zwh.
Ofeilw epishs na paradextw oti prwsopika briskw poly pio eykolo na
katanohsw ena keimeno sta ellhnika me agglikoys oroys, para to idio
keimeno metafrasmeno sta "ellhnika". Isws na einai uema ejaskhshs.
Lakis
P.S. Gia na mhn nomisete oti eimai kanenas foberos glwssologs, oi metafraseis
einai oti uymamai apo ta proptyxiaka moy xronia sthn Krhth
--
Karmirantzos Apostolos e-mail: karm...@natinst.com
--
Karmirantzos Apostolos e-mail: karm...@natinst.com
Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos
>In <921103154...@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>> English Greek
>> ------------------- -------------------
>> Data Structures Domes Dedomenwn
>> Linked list Syndedemeni Lista
Poly kales metafraseis, exw tin entypwsi oti den yparxei problima me
aytes.
>> Editor Ekdotis
Tote to publisher ti einai? Giati exw tin entypwsi oti Editor den einai
ekdotis? Isws na kanw lathos alla I McGraw Hill editor den einai...
>> log in syndeomai
Kai tote pws tha peis to : Log-in and connect the modem?
Syndesou (mou thymizei Star Trek me ena kalwdio na bgainei apo ton afalo
tou ;-) kai syndese kai ton diamwrfwti/apodiamorfwti?
>> pixel simeio, koukida
Psifida?
>> cut-and-paste sbise kai antigrapse
Kopse-rapse einai poly pio akribis metafrasi. Cut den einai sbise, einai
kopse. Sbisimo simainei xasimo opoias pliroforias ypirxe.
>> kill a process sbyse mia diadikasia
To erase/delete einai sbise. To kill einai "skotwse" (me misos :-)
>> fork dimiourgise(?)
Create einai dimiourgise. Fork einai allo pragma... (Klonise isws?)
>> spool ???
>> pipe dioxeteuse/agwgos
>> bus lewforos
Paraliaki stin Athina, Coast to coast, LA to Chicago...
Kai ta bits tha ginoun lourides? Kai I syxnotita leitourgias tha
ginei orio taxytitas? :-)
>> address bus lewforos dieythynsewn
>> sink ???
To "neroxytis" den kanei? To "apoxeteysi" isws? :-)
>> thread ???
Klwsti ? (mallon mou fainetai pros to geloio)
>> pie chart ???
Pitografima :-)
>>--
>>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
>>OUZO POWER stri...@st486.UUCP
>Filika
>Panayotis
Twra sobara: Arketoi oroi exoun apodwsi (oxi metafrasi) sta Ellinika pou
kai akougete mia xara (blepe Domes dedomenwn, Baseis dedomenwn klp kai mia
agapimeni mou: cursor => dromeas) kai exei (arketa) monosimanto noima.
Alla polloi apo tous orous kai den akougontai poly kala, kai einai
apelpistika perifrastikoi/megaloi. Isws an perasei arketos kairos na
synithisoun kai ta aytia tou kosmou, alla mexri tote...
P.X. sto radiofwno: Braxea/Makra/Mesaia Kymata alla FM, kai oxi
diamwrfwsi syxnotitas. Giati ? Giati to mesaia einai mikro kai
aplo, to "diamwrfwsi syxnotitas" den einai oute to ena oute to
allo gia ton aplo anthrwpo.
Akoma, merikoi apo tous orous den exoun noima oute sta Agglika:
Bit den einai "bit" alla Binary digIT. Ta ellinika den epitrepoun
eykola tin dimiourgia newn leksewn kai eidika mikrwn newn leksewn.
--
Dionisis
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos | Email: pnev...@cs.wisc.edu |
| Computer Sciences Department | Phone: (1) 608/262 1721, (1) 608/255 0840 |
| University of Wisconsin-Madison| Fax: (1) 608/262 9777 |
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
> Alitheia, ti simainei oti mia glwssa den exei th swsti orologia; Einai
> h orologia kati to opoio yparxei `emfyto' se mia glwssa h' kati to
> opoio h idia h glwssa diamorfwnei; Kai giati i elliniki glwssa den exei
> th dynatotita na diamorfwsei "swsti" orologia; Kai akomi giati h diamor-
> fwsi "swstis" orologias stin pliroforiki einai dyskolh se sxesi me alles
> epistimes; Sigoyra h elliniki orologia den einai aytoskopos, alla ayto
> den shmainei oti prepei na agnohsoyme kathe prospatheia. Giati h nea
> grammateas, tha prepei na akoyei gia `word processing', kai oxi gia
> `epksergasia keimenoy';
Prwta apo ola, den zoume se keno (vacuum). Oso poio polles Ellhnikoures
kai Frangovlahika xrhsimopoioume, toso apomakrynomaste apo ton upoloipo
kosmo. H episthmh upologistwn exei pollh megalh ekseliksh kai mellon;
an h (ekastote) kybernhsh mporesei na to katalavei kai na to
aksiopoihsei, twte isws na kataferoume me ta programmata oti den
kataferame me alles biomhxanies/biotexnies.
Pare gia paradeigma tous Indous oi opoioi doulevoun gia psixala mesw
satelite link US <--> India. Dhladh emeis DEN mporoume na kanoume to idio?
Epishs uparxei to problhma twn metafrasewn manuals kai loipwn. Pws tha
kataferoume na ginoume kratos protoporo se auth thn texnologia an den
kseroun oloi/oles mia diethnh glwssa?
Ena allo paradeigma se auth thn periptwsh einai h Islandia kai h Filandia.
Exoun merikous apo tous kalyterous xakerades (hackers), eidika h Filandia.
Epishs exoun kai oi duo axrhstes glwsses pou den xrhsimopoiei kanenas
ektos apo tous idious. Nomizeis oti exoun metafrasei olh thn orologia
sta Finlandika? Apo tous Filandous pou kserw, den nomizw.
> Den nomizw oti yparxei tipota lathos stin apodosi tis orologias sta
> Ellinika. Hdh xrhsimopoiountai ellinikes lekseis gia arketoys oroys kai
> nomizw epityxhmena. Alloy yparxoun antikroyomenes apopseis, kai
> alloy xrisimopoioyntai oi Agglikoi oroi elleipsei ikanopoihtikoy Ellinikoy.
Nai, sumfwnw edw. Den milaw na kanoume to EMP na didaskei ta panta sta
Agglika; alla thelei pollh prospateia na anaptyksoume swsth orologia thn
opoia tha prepei na xrhsimopoioun oloi.
Den exw problhma me ellhno-Agglikh orologia; auto pou tha prepei na kanoume
einai na kateierwsoume koinh orologia kai na synexisoume na didaskoume
mia ksenh glwssa wste na uparxei tropos epikoinwnias me ksenous kai
xrhshs ulikou (software, manuals) ksenoglwssou (an perimenoume na metafrash
kanenas to PL/1 manual sta ellhnika prokopsame :-().
Kai ena allo epixeirhma. Polles episthmes xrhsimopoioun Ellhnikh orologia
(p.x. Iatrikh, Zwologia, etc) sta Agglika. An oi Aggloi kai oi Amerikanoi
xrhsimopoioun dikes mas lekseis stis episthmes tous emeis giati den
xrhsimopoioume dikes tous stis dikes mas?
Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos stri...@st486.UUCP
OUZO POWER [Will This Work?]
Rizos Sakellariou
kapoies skepseis, opoy tassetai yper ths xrhshs Agglikhs orologias
gia tin Pliroforiki, stin Ellada.
>Den mporw na katalabw giati swnei kai kala prepei na ellhnikopoihsoume
>ta panta. Dustuxws h glwssa mas den exei thn katallhlh orologia. H
>tha kanoume swsth orologia (eukolo se merikes episthmes alla polu
>duskolo se alles opws px computer science) h tha synexisoume na
>xrishmopoioume agglika.
Alitheia, ti simainei oti mia glwssa den exei th swsti orologia; Einai
h orologia kati to opoio yparxei `emfyto' se mia glwssa h' kati to
opoio h idia h glwssa diamorfwnei; Kai giati i elliniki glwssa den exei
th dynatotita na diamorfwsei "swsti" orologia; Kai akomi giati h diamor-
fwsi "swstis" orologias stin pliroforiki einai dyskolh se sxesi me alles
epistimes; Sigoyra h elliniki orologia den einai aytoskopos, alla ayto
den shmainei oti prepei na agnohsoyme kathe prospatheia. Giati h nea
grammateas, tha prepei na akoyei gia `word processing', kai oxi gia
`epksergasia keimenoy';
Den nomizw oti yparxei tipota lathos stin apodosi tis orologias sta
Ellinika. Hdh xrhsimopoiountai ellinikes lekseis gia arketoys oroys kai
nomizw epityxhmena. Alloy yparxoun antikroyomenes apopseis, kai
alloy xrisimopoioyntai oi Agglikoi oroi elleipsei ikanopoihtikoy Ellinikoy.
Me tin parodo twn xronwn, kapoies lekseis tha epikratisoyn kai tha diamorfwthei
ena elliniko leksilogio Pliroforikis, to opoio den briskw logoys giati na min
einai apodekto (to paradeigma me ta Mathimatika htan xaraktiristiko).
Ksekinwntas apo to oti gia tin apodosi tis orologias kyrios
stoxos den einai i akribis metafrasi, alla h katanohsh twn ennoiwn poy
antistoixoyn stoys ksenoys oroys kai h aneyresi Ellinikwn leksewn poy na
apodidoyn to nohma, den nomizw oti einai dyskoli h stadiaki anaptyksi kai
kathierwsi Ellinikwn orwn. Etsi, metafraseis san tis epomenes, nomizw oti
einai apolyta akribeis:
Desktop Publishing = Epitrapezia typografia
Compiler = Metaglwtisths
Data Structures = Domes Dedomenwn
Linked list = Syndedemeni lista
Expert System = Empeiro systima (h' systhma empeirognwmonas kata alloys)
klp.
Alitheia, ti to asximo briskeis gia tin xrisimopoihsh tis lekshs `parathyro'
anti `window', h' `pontiki' anti `mouse'; Kai tha protimoyses to `artificial
intelligence' apo to `texnhth nohmosynh'; Se teliki analysi, den milame kai
gia metafrasi toy `byte' (an kai ena glwssario Pliroforikis poy eixe
ekdosei palaiotera h EPY - isws h prwti prospatheia apodosis ksenwn orwn
sta Ellinika - edine ton oro `pshfioleksh'), para to gegonos oti oi
Galloi (prwtoporoi sto na anaptyssoyn Galliki orologia) moy fainetai to
metefrasan kai ayto...
>Re paidia, edw exoume "Hamburger Shops" kai "SALES" kai "HOTELS" kai
>"BOUZOUKI CLUBS" kai "TOURIST BEECH" [sic :-)] kai ta "data
>structures" mas peiraksan?
To oti yparxei kati strabo s'enan tomea den shmainei oti prepei na
ka0ierwthei pantoy...
Gregory Dandulakis
In article <pnevmati....@cs.wisc.edu> pnev...@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos) writes:
>
>>> Editor Ekdotis
>
>Tote to publisher ti einai? Giati exw tin entypwsi oti Editor den einai
>ekdotis? Isws na kanw lathos alla I McGraw Hill editor den einai...
Exeis dikio gia auto to problhma. Isws to editor = suntakths
na einai kalliteros. Pantws polles fores exw brei agglikes
lekseis pou sta ellhnika antistoixoun se duo kai panw lekseis
giati einai diaforetikes ennoies, kai to antistrofo bebaiws.
Ara den einai upoxrewtikh mia pros mia antistoixia, dhladh
editor, publisher = ekdoths na einai isws apodekth.
Pantws to problhma einai sigoura oksutato gia tous upologistes,
alla den periorizetai mono ekei. Fer'eipein sthn xhmeia exoume
to idio problhma (molis hrtha edw katalaba oti polymer kai multimer
einai diaforetikes ennoies. Sta ellhnika oi kakes tou podariou
metafraseis tis eixan panta mia: polumeres...)
Kapoios eipe oti polles lekseis upologistwn sta agglika einai
magkikes. Mallon einai pleonekthma: dinei amesws mia "aisthhsh"
ston neoeiserxomano to ti akribws shmainei. Emena omws, otan
prwtoeida thn leksh debugging se mia perilhpsh mathhmatos pou
pithanon na to eperna, amesws lew mmm to leksiko den me bohthaei
na katalabw ti einai, arra einai duskolo, ara den to pairnw...
O de filos pou anafere to paradeigma me to plunthrio, nomizw oti
xtuphse diana. Epeidh anamenetai oi upologistes na ginoun routina
xrhshs apo olous tous anthrwpous (kai oxi mono tous eidikous),
nomizw mia orologia pou fernei to xrhsth, kai mono, tou "koutiou"
grhgora sthn suneidhtopoihsh twn ennoiwn klp, oti einai terastias
OIKONOMIKHS shmasias gia thn Ellada. H elleipsh filikhs, thermhs
kai amesa katanohths orologias einai basikos logos sthn kathusterhsh
empaidwshs twn upologistwn sthn Ellada.
Ean oi upologistes htan gia xrhsh mono twn eidikeumenwn 10-1000
Ellhnwn, tote h metafrash tha htan mallon axrhsth, alla gia tous
upologistes einai terastiws diaforetika.
Kapoies skorpies skepseis kai mono...
Xairetw,
Grhgorhs
Yannis Schoinas
>In article <pnevmati....@cs.wisc.edu> pnev...@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos) writes:
>>
>>>> Editor Ekdotis
>>
>>Tote to publisher ti einai? Giati exw tin entypwsi oti Editor den einai
>>ekdotis? Isws na kanw lathos alla I McGraw Hill editor den einai...
> Exeis dikio gia auto to problhma. Isws to editor = suntakths
>na einai kalliteros. Pantws polles fores exw brei agglikes
>lekseis pou sta ellhnika antistoixoun se duo kai panw lekseis
>giati einai diaforetikes ennoies, kai to antistrofo bebaiws.
>Ara den einai upoxrewtikh mia pros mia antistoixia, dhladh
>editor, publisher = ekdoths na einai isws apodekth.
Nomizv oti den einai toylaxiston oson afora toys texnikoys
oroys giati tote dhmioyrgoyntai asafeies.
>Pantws to problhma einai sigoura oksutato gia tous upologistes,
>alla den periorizetai mono ekei. Fer'eipein sthn xhmeia exoume
>to idio problhma (molis hrtha edw katalaba oti polymer kai multimer
>einai diaforetikes ennoies. Sta ellhnika oi kakes tou podariou
>metafraseis tis eixan panta mia: polumeres...)
>Kapoios eipe oti polles lekseis upologistwn sta agglika einai
>magkikes. Mallon einai pleonekthma: dinei amesws mia "aisthhsh"
>ston neoeiserxomano to ti akribws shmainei. Emena omws, otan
>prwtoeida thn leksh debugging se mia perilhpsh mathhmatos pou
>pithanon na to eperna, amesws lew mmm to leksiko den me bohthaei
>na katalabw ti einai, arra einai duskolo, ara den to pairnw...
Nai, alla pisteyeis oti enas "native speaker of English" ua katalabaine
kalytera apo sena ti shmainei? H oti an eixes didaktei gia "dioruvtes lauvn"
xvris na soy poyn oti aytoi legontai debuggers sta agglika den ua eixes
problhma?
>O de filos pou anafere to paradeigma me to plunthrio, nomizw oti
>xtuphse diana. Epeidh anamenetai oi upologistes na ginoun routina
>xrhshs apo olous tous anthrwpous (kai oxi mono tous eidikous),
>nomizw mia orologia pou fernei to xrhsth, kai mono, tou "koutiou"
>grhgora sthn suneidhtopoihsh twn ennoiwn klp, oti einai terastias
>OIKONOMIKHS shmasias gia thn Ellada. H elleipsh filikhs, thermhs
>kai amesa katanohths orologias einai basikos logos sthn kathusterhsh
>empaidwshs twn upologistwn sthn Ellada.
Dhladh, h agglikh orologia einai filikh, thermh kai amesh katanohth
gia toys agglofvnoys kai etsi ejhgeitai h diadosh toys stis agglofvnes
xvres?
>Ean oi upologistes htan gia xrhsh mono twn eidikeumenwn 10-1000
>Ellhnwn, tote h metafrash tha htan mallon axrhsth, alla gia tous
>upologistes einai terastiws diaforetika.
H dhmioyrgia orologias se enan klado einai mia dynamikh, "zvntanh"
diadikasia. Apo thn prvth stigmh poy mia kainoyrgia ennoia prepei
na perigrafei kapoios(opvs p.x. aytos poy thn skefthke) proteinei
enan oro. H prvtia bebaia den eggyatai thn epikrathsh toy oroy kai
einai h epikoinvnia metajy tvn aurvpvn ths perioxhs poy kauorizei
poios ua epikrathsei. Tvra an eruei kapoios kai pei oti ayth h
orologia den moy aresei(giati p.x. den proerxetai apo thn glvssa
moy) kai uelv mia allh ua ftiajei kati texnhto poy kata thn gnvmh
moy ua periexei asafeies kai ua dhmioyrgei perissotera problhmata
apo oti lynei. Kai einai akribvs h diadosh tvn ypologistvn poy
kanei mh praktikh(kai telika axrhsth) opoiadhpote tetoia prospaueia.
Den einai mia elit poy mporei na epiballei ston eayto ths thn
xrhsh kapoias texnhths orologias. Kai na prosejoyme oti ston
sygkekrimeno xvro akoma kai h arxikh orologia einai ligotero
texnhth apo alloys.
Einai piuano oti an kapoios hjere oti to while exei thn
ennoia toy oso na katalabaine pio eykola thn sygkekrimenh construct
se mia glvssa programmatismoy. Alla akoma kai an den hjere ti
shmainei apo thn stigmh poy toy ejhgoyses pvs doyleyei den ua
eixe kanena problhma na thn xrhsimopoihsei. Kai eytyxvs gia ayto
giati env einai texnika dynaton na oristei mia polyglvssh glvssa
glvssa programmatismoy(p.x. Algol), den einai praktika dynaton.
H olh prospaueia moy uymizei se kapoio baumo thn kauareyoysa kai
ton urhskeytiko pyreto na apallagoyme apo mh ellhnikes epidraseis
sthn glvssa mas. Uymamai ena xarakthristiko paradeigma apo ena
aruro. H lejh ntoyfeki einai toykikhs proeleyshs kai bebaia den
arese stoys opadoys ths kauareyoysas. Ua huelan na antikatastauei
me thn lejh oplo h opoia bebaia shmainei opoiadhpote oplo. Alla
ayto den htan kai poly sofo apo strativtikhs apochs. Fantasteite
thn synomilia:
"Dvse to oplo!" "Poio oplo?" "To oplo!".
Etsi to ntoyfeki egine tyfekion to opoio omvs einai poly pio
konta sthn toyrkikh lejh(tufek) apo to ntoyfeki.
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Yannis Schoinas
>O Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com) ek0etei
>kapoies skepseis, opoy tassetai yper ths xrhshs Agglikhs orologias
>gia tin Pliroforiki, stin Ellada.
>>Den mporw na katalabw giati swnei kai kala prepei na ellhnikopoihsoume
>>ta panta. Dustuxws h glwssa mas den exei thn katallhlh orologia. H
>>tha kanoume swsth orologia (eukolo se merikes episthmes alla polu
>>duskolo se alles opws px computer science) h tha synexisoume na
>>xrishmopoioume agglika.
>Alitheia, ti simainei oti mia glwssa den exei th swsti orologia; Einai
>h orologia kati to opoio yparxei `emfyto' se mia glwssa h' kati to
>opoio h idia h glwssa diamorfwnei; Kai giati i elliniki glwssa den exei
>th dynatotita na diamorfwsei "swsti" orologia; Kai akomi giati h diamor-
>fwsi "swstis" orologias stin pliroforiki einai dyskolh se sxesi me alles
>epistimes; Sigoyra h elliniki orologia den einai aytoskopos, alla ayto
>den shmainei oti prepei na agnohsoyme kathe prospatheia. Giati h nea
>grammateas, tha prepei na akoyei gia `word processing', kai oxi gia
>`epksergasia keimenoy';
Den nomizv oti kanenas euese uema gia to an mporei h oxi sthn ellhnikh
glvssa na diamorfvuei svsth orologia. To uema einai an mia yparxoysa
orologia mporei na metafrastei se mia glvssa etsi vste na mhn dhmioyrgoyntai
asafeies kai na metaferetai to idio nohma. Profanvs, mporv na xrhsimopoihsv
opoiadhpote glvssa gia na diamorfvsv enan apeiro ariumo apo orologies gia thn
idia perioxh(akoma kai sthn idia glvssa).
>Den nomizw oti yparxei tipota lathos stin apodosi tis orologias sta
>Ellinika. Hdh xrhsimopoiountai ellinikes lekseis gia arketoys oroys kai
>nomizw epityxhmena. Alloy yparxoun antikroyomenes apopseis, kai
>alloy xrisimopoioyntai oi Agglikoi oroi elleipsei ikanopoihtikoy Ellinikoy.
>Me tin parodo twn xronwn, kapoies lekseis tha epikratisoyn kai tha diamorfwthei
>ena elliniko leksilogio Pliroforikis, to opoio den briskw logoys giati na min
>einai apodekto (to paradeigma me ta Mathimatika htan xaraktiristiko).
>Ksekinwntas apo to oti gia tin apodosi tis orologias kyrios
>stoxos den einai i akribis metafrasi, alla h katanohsh twn ennoiwn poy
>antistoixoyn stoys ksenoys oroys kai h aneyresi Ellinikwn leksewn poy na
>apodidoyn to nohma, den nomizw oti einai dyskoli h stadiaki anaptyksi kai
>kathierwsi Ellinikwn orwn. Etsi, metafraseis san tis epomenes, nomizw oti
>einai apolyta akribeis:
Ti ennoeis na apodidoyn to idio nohma? Milame gia oroys oi opoioi apodidoyn
ena kainoyrio nohma, kati poy den yphrxe prin 40 xronia. Ara einai kataskeyasmenoi
oroi. Giati ua prepei ayth h kataskeyh na epanalhfuei estv se allh glvssa? Ua
toys kanei pio katanohtoys?
> Desktop Publishing = Epitrapezia typografia
???!!!???
Giati oxi panvtrapezia gia na akolouoyme kai thn dhmotikh? To desktop einai
kataskeyasmenh lejh sta agglika. Na shmeivsv oti to ekdosh einai kalyterh
apodosh toy publishing apo to typografia.
> Compiler = Metaglwtisths
Nai, isvs o oros parolo poy den einai akribhs na exei kauiervuei...
> Data Structures = Domes Dedomenwn
> Linked list = Syndedemeni lista
> Expert System = Empeiro systima (h' systhma empeirognwmonas kata alloys)
> klp.
Proseje oti stoys parapanv oroys yparxei akribhs antistoixia nohmatvn
sta ellhnika kai sta agglika. To problhma moy einaiu kyrivs sthn
antikatastash kataskeyasmenvn lejevn sta agglika me alles kataskeyasmenes
lejeis sta ellhnika.
>Alitheia, ti to asximo briskeis gia tin xrisimopoihsh tis lekshs `parathyro'
>anti `window', h' `pontiki' anti `mouse'; Kai tha protimoyses to `artificial
>intelligence' apo to `texnhth nohmosynh'; Se teliki analysi, den milame kai
>gia metafrasi toy `byte' (an kai ena glwssario Pliroforikis poy eixe
>ekdosei palaiotera h EPY - isws h prwti prospatheia apodosis ksenwn orwn
>sta Ellinika - edine ton oro `pshfioleksh'), para to gegonos oti oi
>Galloi (prwtoporoi sto na anaptyssoyn Galliki orologia) moy fainetai to
>metefrasan kai ayto...
Poso petyxhmenh einai h gallikh orologia? Poses gallikes lejeis jereis
sthn perioxh tvn ypologistvn?
Gia proseje ki ayto:
fox% webster
dictionary-> byte
No matches were found.
Giati ua prepei na metafrasv san `pshfioleksh' to byte? Oytvs h
allvs kai sta agglika den shmainei tipota. Giati na mhn xrhsimopoihsv
aytoysio ton oro? Prepei na einai ellhnikofaneis oi kataskeyasmenes
lejeis gia na ginontai apodektoi san "ellhnikh" orologia?
Den briskv tipota kako stis metafraseis poy dineis alla mias kai eisai
se forma dokimase kai toys parakatv san arxh.
monitor (oxi h ouonh:-)
path expressions
conditional critical regions
critical sections
CSP(communicating sequential processes)
RPC(remote procedure call)
capability
benchmark
log-structured filesystem
pipeline
scalar
aggregate
record
debugger
GIF
privacy
authentication
swapping
replication
key
lock
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Rizos Sakellariou
>H episthmh upologistwn exei pollh megalh ekseliksh kai mellon;
>an h (ekastote) kybernhsh mporesei na to katalavei kai na to
>aksiopoihsei, twte isws na kataferoume me ta programmata oti den
>kataferame me alles biomhxanies/biotexnies.
>Pare gia paradeigma tous Indous oi opoioi doulevoun gia psixala mesw
>satelite link US <--> India. Dhladh emeis DEN mporoume na kanoume to idio?
An anaferesai stin anaptyksi logismikoy se xwres me xamilo kostos ergasias,
tote diafwnw oti emeis xreiazetai na kanoyme kati analogo. Kati tetoio
den prosthetei tipota stin afomoiwsi texnognwsias, kai to mono poy petyxainei
einai h paroxi ftinoy ergatikoy dynamikoy se xwres me ypsilo kosto ergasias.
Nomizw oti ayto poy leipei apo tin Ellada einai mia kentriki stratigiki
me basi tin opoia tha ylopoihthoyn megala erga Pliroforikis. H apousia mias
tetoias stratigikis kollaei isws stis adynamies toy dimosioy tomea. Sto
na baloyme ena PC sto farmakeio h' sto video-club tis geitonias pame kala,
isws kalytera apo kathe alli xwra. Ti ginetai omws me tin Pliroforiki stis
dimosies ypiresies, epixeiriseis koinis wfeleias, klp. ekei poy pragmatika
yparxei anagki;
>Ena allo paradeigma se auth thn periptwsh einai h Islandia kai h Filandia.
>Exoun merikous apo tous kalyterous xakerades (hackers), eidika h Filandia.
>Epishs exoun kai oi duo axrhstes glwsses pou den xrhsimopoiei kanenas
>ektos apo tous idious. Nomizeis oti exoun metafrasei olh thn orologia
>sta Finlandika? Apo tous Filandous pou kserw, den nomizw.
Ma Spyro, den milame gia tin metafrasi olis tis orologias sta Ellinika.
Omws, opws fanhke kai apo prohgoymena postings, ena poly megalo pososto
mporei na apodothei ikanopoihtika. To kerdos tis Ellinikis apodosis einai
oti bohtha sto na ginei pio prositi h Pliroforiki ston kosmo. Ayto
bebaia den apokleiei tin synyparksh merikes fores kai tis Agglikis orologias.
Se teliki analysi, an to manual ths PL/1 tha xrisimopoihthei apo deka
ekseidikeymenoys epaggelmaties, einai koyto na metafrastei. Ayto omws
den isxyei kai gia to manual p.x. toy DOS h' tou Unix.
Apo tin alli, diafwnw me to xaraktirismo mias glwssas san axristi kai tin
tasi gia isopedwsi twn pantwn sto onoma toy efhmeroy enos. To oti zoyme
se mia epoxi poy h Agglikh einai (einai?) kyriarxi glwssa kai i
Pliroforiki exei megalh simasia, den simainei oti agnooyme oles tis
alles glwsses kai epistimes...
>Kai ena allo epixeirhma. Polles episthmes xrhsimopoioun Ellhnikh orologia
>(p.x. Iatrikh, Zwologia, etc) sta Agglika. An oi Aggloi kai oi Amerikanoi
>xrhsimopoioun dikes mas lekseis stis episthmes tous emeis giati den
>xrhsimopoioume dikes tous stis dikes mas?
Kaneis den to arneitai an ginetai me metro kai opoy den mporoyn na apodothoyn
oi antistoixoi agglikoi oroi. Arketes ksenikes lekseis exoyn afomoiwthei apo
tin Elliniki glwssa kai den yparxei tipota to asximo sto na prostesei
i pliroforiki kai alles. Oxi omws stin alogisti xrisi twn Agglikwn leksewn
ekei poy mporoyn na brethoyn isodynames ellinikes apodoseis (kai apo ta
paradeigmata poy exoyn anaferthei mporoyn na yparksoyn kales apodoseis sth
syntriptiki pleiopsifia twn orwn).
Philip Santas
In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>ri...@cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>>
>>Ksekinwntas apo to oti gia tin apodosi tis orologias kyrios
>>stoxos den einai i akribis metafrasi, alla h katanohsh twn ennoiwn poy
>>antistoixoyn stoys ksenoys oroys kai h aneyresi Ellinikwn leksewn poy na
>>apodidoyn to nohma, den nomizw oti einai dyskoli h stadiaki anaptyksi kai
>>kathierwsi Ellinikwn orwn. Etsi, metafraseis san tis epomenes, nomizw oti
>>einai apolyta akribeis:
>
>Ti ennoeis na apodidoyn to idio nohma? Milame gia oroys oi opoioi apodidoyn
>ena kainoyrio nohma, kati poy den yphrxe prin 40 xronia. Ara einai kataskeyasmenoi
>oroi. Giati ua prepei ayth h kataskeyh na epanalhfuei estv se allh glvssa? Ua
>toys kanei pio katanohtoys?
Yparxei estw kai mia le3n se opoia6hpote glwssa, pou 6ev eivai kataskeuasmevn?
Apo tov ouravo mas pesave, h fytrwsave moves tous? Otav o Agglos leei
car/bus kai o Ellnvas autokhvnto/lewforeio, yphrxav autes oi le3eis priv
emfavistouv ta prwta ama3ia/lewforeia? Se poia keimeva? Ka mia kai ta
lewforeia 6ev eivai ellnvikh efeuresn, 8a pei oti metafrasame sta ellnvika
kapoiov 3evo oro: e, auto kavoume kai e6w. Dnla6h 8a leme
"phga me to bus stnv Omoveia" epei6h 6ev prepei va kataskeuazoume le3eis?
Kai pws 8a milagame? Me vohmata? Periergo epixeirnma...
_Oti_ yparxei se morfh glwssas, eivai kataskeuasmevo, kai alles kataskeues
epibiwsav, kai alles esbnsav. Ola eivai 8ema memetikhs.
>> Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>
>Nai, isvs o oros parolo poy den einai akribhs na exei kauiervuei...
Tn mia les oti 6ev mporei va apo6i6ouv to i6io vonma, tnv alln psaxveis
gia to i6io vonma... Ti 6ev sou aresei sto "Metaglwtisths", kai ti parapavw
briskeis sto "Compiler"?
Xairetw, Filippos
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
> An anaferesai stin anaptyksi logismikoy se xwres me xamilo kostos ergasias,
> tote diafwnw oti emeis xreiazetai na kanoyme kati analogo. Kati tetoio
> einai h paroxi ftinoy ergatikoy dynamikoy se xwres me ypsilo kosto ergasias.
Oxi aparaithta me xamhlo kostos; Oi Souhdoi, Finlandoi, kai loipoi den
douleuoun gia psixala. Kai omws ftiaxnoun kai 'gamw to software'.
> Nomizw oti ayto poy leipei apo tin Ellada einai mia kentriki stratigiki
> me basi tin opoia tha ylopoihthoyn megala erga Pliroforikis. H apousia mias
> tetoias stratigikis kollaei isws stis adynamies toy dimosioy tomea. Sto
> na baloyme ena PC sto farmakeio h' sto video-club tis geitonias pame kala,
> isws kalytera apo kathe alli xwra. Ti ginetai omws me tin Pliroforiki stis
> dimosies ypiresies, epixeiriseis koinis wfeleias, klp. ekei poy pragmatika
> yparxei anagki;
To megalo mou oneiro... Na mporesw na parw (oxi egw alla kapoios),
foithtiko synalagma xwris xartodouleia: Diabathrio, eksetaseis
agglikwn (kanoun akoma?), anabolh stratou, poiniko mhtrww, forologiko
mhtrww (record re!), etc.
> Ma Spyro, den milame gia tin metafrasi olis tis orologias sta Ellinika.
> Omws, opws fanhke kai apo prohgoymena postings, ena poly megalo pososto
> mporei na apodothei ikanopoihtika. To kerdos tis Ellinikis apodosis einai
> oti bohtha sto na ginei pio prositi h Pliroforiki ston kosmo. Ayto
> bebaia den apokleiei tin synyparksh merikes fores kai tis Agglikis orologias.
Alla mhn ksexnas oti polloi / polles exoun spoudasei sto ekswteriko
kai ola ta manuals klp einai sta Agglika. Den pistevw oti h metatrwph
ths orologias gia kapoion pou spoudase se ksenh glwssa sta Ellhnika
einai eukolh xwris kathe allh leksh na einai 'pws to lene auto re?'.
"Wild" manuals, i.e. PL/1 den xreiazontai metafrash. Alla ti ginetai
otan pesoun sto idio project agglomatheis kai mh agglomateis kai ola
ta manual sta Agglika? (I have a good story on this but don't want
to post it :-), the participants are on the net)
> >Kai ena allo epixeirhma. Polles episthmes xrhsimopoioun Ellhnikh orologia
> >(p.x. Iatrikh, Zwologia, etc) sta Agglika. An oi Aggloi kai oi Amerikanoi
> >xrhsimopoioun dikes mas lekseis stis episthmes tous emeis giati den
> >xrhsimopoioume dikes tous stis dikes mas?
> Kaneis den to arneitai an ginetai me metro kai opoy den mporoyn na apodothoyn
> oi antistoixoi agglikoi oroi. Arketes ksenikes lekseis exoyn afomoiwthei apo
> tin Elliniki glwssa kai den yparxei tipota to asximo sto na prostesei
> pliroforiki kai alles. Oxi omws stin alogisti xrisi twn Agglikwn leksewn
> ekei poy mporoyn na brethoyn isodynames ellinikes apodoseis (kai apo ta
> paradeigmata poy exoyn anaferthei mporoyn na yparksoyn kales apodoseis sth
> syntriptiki pleiopsifia twn orwn).
An oloi symfwnhsoun kati ginetai...
Spiros
Dimitrios FILIPPOU
o Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com) grafei:
>
> English Greek
> ------------------- -------------------
> Editor EKDOTIS KEIMENOU
> Font GRAMMATOSEIRA
> Desktop Publishing O KASES 'i TO FTIAXIMO TOY KASE
> pixel KOKKOS 'i KOUKIDA
> cut-and-paste KASES
>
Oi oroi aftoi hrisimopoiountai apo tous ellines tipografous kathimerina.
Tous gnwrizw apo proswpiki empeiria stin ekdosi epistimonikou periodikou
stin Ellada (douleva ws diorthwtis otan imouna proptihiakos foititis sto
E.M.P. :-))
Vevaia o oros <<editor>> sigheetai sihna kai me ton <<publisher>>.
Sihna aftos pou apokaleitai sta agglika ws <<publisher>> stin Ellada
stin Ellada einai o <<ipefthinos kata ton Nomo>> :-)
(gia ti metafrasi allwn orwn, eida pws arketoi alloi sindromites --
<<NETTERS>> :-) -- mpikan ston kopo na poune tis apopseis tous.)
>Epishs o megaluteros xabales sto computer science einai oti ena megalo
>pososto apo thn orologia einai kathimerines lekseis, oi opoies pali
>den metafrazontai...
Loipon, kai i paragrafos pou dineis ws paradeigma mi-metafrazomenou
keimenou, nomizw pws metafrazetai. To pws kati graftike se mia
glwssa me kapoio tropo, den simainei pws prepei swnei-kai-kala
na metafrastei kata lexi se mia alli. (Elpizw pws tha vrw to hrono gia
na epanelthw shetika :-) )
><minor flame on>
>Oxi kai ilitha re filara... kai 'kapoios'... Sevasmo sta ghrateia re!
>Fagame th zwh mas sto net kai ante kai kala eimaste 'kapoios' :-)
>
>> pipe = tsimpoukwnw
>>
>> [ Ma an einai dinaton! Edw to <<pipe>> ehei tin enoia tou AGWGOU ki ohi
>> tis PIPAS :-) ]
>
>An exeis xalasei 10 xronia grafontas Unix shell scripts (among other
>things) to 'pipe' exei bebaiws thn ennoia tou tsimpoukiou. ls | wc -l
>einai eukolo, alla gia neofytous einai maniki (i.e. dyskolo). Pws leme
>sta ellhnika, "tsimpouki h katastash", dhladh "h katastash einai
>duskolh"... Opws leme "Paparia dike mou",
><minor flame off>
[mia mikri fwtia sinehizetai edw! -- elpizw na min exelihthei san tis
pirkagies pou den afisan dasos gia dasos stin Ellada :-) ]
Siggnwmi, kale mou pappou! Sighwra me pou tolmisa kai
(i) xehasa t' onoma sou kai s' apokalesa <<kapoion>>
dihws onoma, kai
(ii) apokalesa ta sofa sou logia <<ilithia>>.
Omws kale mou pappou, me nevriazeis otan milas allampournezika kai
den mporw na se katalavw. Me kaneis kai tarazomai pou den mporw na
metafrasw ta koutsavakika pou 'mathes apo ton ipologisti kai totes...
Totes, xehnw, mperdevomai, sigheomai kai lew -- 'i kalitera, grafw --
pragmata gia ta opoia tha 'prepe na mou valeis piperi sto stoma :-)
[pfffff -- ftou -- svise re kwlofwtia !!! :-) ]
>
>Re paidia, edw exoume "Hamburger Shops" kai "SALES" kai "HOTELS" kai
>"BOUZOUKI CLUBS" kai "TOURIST BEECH" [sic :-)] kai ta "data
>structures" mas peiraksan?
>
>Spiros "English or Bust"
Ola xekinoun apo to athwo <<data structures>> pou kapoia stigmi to
afisame na glistrisei sti glwssa mas hwris na to metafrasoume ws
<<domes dedomenwn>>...
Pappou, sighwra me kai pali an afthidiasa :-(
O eggonos sou,
Dimitris
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
> > English Greek
> > ------------------- -------------------
> > Editor EKDOTIS KEIMENOU
> > Font GRAMMATOSEIRA
> > Desktop Publishing O KASES 'i TO FTIAXIMO TOY KASE>
>
> stin Ellada (douleva ws diorthwtis otan imouna proptihiakos foititis sto
> E.M.P. :-))
thn kaname apo koupes. kathimerina. Prosekse oti edw milame
typorgrafous, oxi ypologistes. Eimai sigouros oti oi typografoi exoun
ELLHNIKH orologia pou einai akatalavhstikh stous koinous Ellhnes...
Kai eimai bebaios oti lekseis opws "Margin, galley, underline, bold,
italic, klp" oles exoun nohma kai sta ellhnika.
H idea tou FONT san Grammatoseira einai lathos. To parakatw einai
gramatoseira: anciuynunlqsuiodioliwqjhldoih. Auto einai font: 9x15b.
> Loipon, kai i paragrafos pou dineis ws paradeigma mi-metafrazomenou
> keimenou, nomizw pws metafrazetai. To pws kati graftike se mia
> glwssa me kapoio tropo, den simainei pws prepei swnei-kai-kala
> na metafrastei kata lexi se mia alli. (Elpizw pws tha vrw to hrono gia
> na epanelthw shetika :-) )
Den eipa na metafrasth olh sta Agglika. Kala tha eitan na kseroun oloi
kai oles Agglika wste na mporoun na to katalavoun sta Agglika. An oxi
oso poio kala kseroun toso kalutero, kai emeis FrangoVlahika Galore.
Dhmhtrh, to vasiko provlhma pou exw einai oti ta Ellhnika einai poly
polyplokh glwssa me thn opoia thelei megalh prosoxh gia na ekfrasteis
un-ambiguously. (:-)). Mia kai den uparxei akribhs kai safhs orologia,
kai oloi empistevomaste mia kapoia morfh FrangoVlahikwn, to perithwrio
lathous logw miscommunications einai terastio. Grafw software 10
xronia plhrwtos twra kai vlepw ti ginetai otan kapoios skeftetai se
polyplokh glwssa kai grafei program specifications.
Auto einai pio geniko flame sta Ellhnika. To megalutero provlhma pou
eixa kai exw akoma sta Agglika einai oti grafw megales protaseis tis
opoies einai duskolo na katalavoun oi akroates/anagnwstes. Kai den
eimai mono egw. An exeis software san "Grammatic" upologise to "fog
index" enos Ellhna kai enos MH Ellhna kai tha deis ti lew.
Dhladh den milaw mono gia provlhma orologias, alla gia provlhma swsths
ekfrashs. Vale auto me to gegonos oti POTE den didaxthkame (Gumnasio,
KATEE, EMP) na GRAFOUME panw apo 1 selida th bdomada TEXNIKO keimeno
kai tha katalaveis ti akrivws lew.
Epishs einai kai (prwsopiko) thema sunhteias. Prin 3 xronia phra thn
Giagia (wife, non-Greek) kai episkefthkame thn Ellada. Ekei eixa thn
apolaush na milhsw magazi (talk shop) kathws enas eksadelfos mou molis
teleiwse to Masters Statistikh/Oikonomia sthn ASOEE (arketo apo auto
sta Agglika). Enw egw kai autos den katalavainame ti elege o allos sta
FrangoVlahika (regression, ANOVA, :-) h syzygos ta katafere poly
kalutera sta Agglika. Den lew na gurisoume to EMP sta Agglika alla
kalo tha eitan na mporoun oi neoi episthmones/episthmonises na
synenoountai se ikanopoihtiko vathmo se mia EOK-ikh glwssa. (EOK jobs,
joint ventures, foreign companies, etc).
> Siggnwmi, kale mou pappou! Sighwra me pou tolmisa kai
>
> (i) xehasa t' onoma sou kai s' apokalesa <<kapoion>>
> dihws onoma, kai
Yes. Being the resident delcoelect.com USENET personality, 'kapoios'
den einai appropriate re paidi mou opws kai na to kanoume.
> (ii) apokalesa ta sofa sou logia <<ilithia>>.
Ditto.
> Omws kale mou pappou, me nevriazeis otan milas allampournezika kai
> den mporw na se katalavw. Me kaneis kai tarazomai pou den mporw na
> metafrasw ta koutsavakika pou 'mathes apo ton ipologisti kai totes...
> Totes, xehnw, mperdevomai, sigheomai kai lew -- 'i kalitera, grafw --
> pragmata gia ta opoia tha 'prepe na mou valeis piperi sto stoma :-)
Tote xrhsimopoihse Agglika :-)
> >Spiros "English or Bust"
>
>Ola xekinoun apo to athwo <<data structures>> pou kapoia stigmi to
>afisame na glistrisei sti glwssa mas hwris na to metafrasoume ws
><<domes dedomenwn>>...
Kai "Trapezes Plhroforiwn"..
> Pappou, sighwra me kai pali an afthidiasa :-(
Not this time. :-)
> O eggonos sou,
>
> Dimitris
Thanx,
Spiros (33 and a Grandfather already!)
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics strian...@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904 [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
apanthsw (tha deite giati argotera). Auto pou ksexnate einai se poia glwssa
SKEFTETAI o kathe anthrwpos.
Ystera apo 10 xronia sthn Amerikh skeftomai misa misa Agglika kai Ellhnika.
Gia douleia mallon 100% Agglika. Oses fores exw prospathsei na skeftw gia
diaforous logous sta Ellhnika se thema upologistwn diapistwnw oti h
agnoia orologias h DIKH MOU me kathsterei arketa. Auto einai to antitheto
tou ti ginetai allou, dhladh sunhthws einai pio eukolo na skefths sthn
native glwssa sou.
Fantazomai oti to idio einai se allous/alles pou spoudasan kai gurisan
pisw. An oxi toso megalo pantws arketo provlhma. Kai h erwthsh mou giati
den thelw na genikopoihsw:
"otan skefteste themata douleias skefteste Agglika h Ellhnika?"
Spiros
Yannis Schoinas
>Grafei o Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (st486!stri...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com):
>>H episthmh upologistwn exei pollh megalh ekseliksh kai mellon;
>>an h (ekastote) kybernhsh mporesei na to katalavei kai na to
>>aksiopoihsei, twte isws na kataferoume me ta programmata oti den
>>kataferame me alles biomhxanies/biotexnies.
>>Pare gia paradeigma tous Indous oi opoioi doulevoun gia psixala mesw
>>satelite link US <--> India. Dhladh emeis DEN mporoume na kanoume to idio?
>An anaferesai stin anaptyksi logismikoy se xwres me xamilo kostos ergasias,
>tote diafwnw oti emeis xreiazetai na kanoyme kati analogo. Kati tetoio
>den prosthetei tipota stin afomoiwsi texnognwsias, kai to mono poy petyxainei
>einai h paroxi ftinoy ergatikoy dynamikoy se xwres me ypsilo kosto ergasias.
>Nomizw oti ayto poy leipei apo tin Ellada einai mia kentriki stratigiki
>me basi tin opoia tha ylopoihthoyn megala erga Pliroforikis. H apousia mias
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>tetoias stratigikis kollaei isws stis adynamies toy dimosioy tomea. Sto
>na baloyme ena PC sto farmakeio h' sto video-club tis geitonias pame kala,
>isws kalytera apo kathe alli xwra. Ti ginetai omws me tin Pliroforiki stis
>dimosies ypiresies, epixeiriseis koinis wfeleias, klp. ekei poy pragmatika
>yparxei anagki;
Ti ennoeis 'megala erga plhroforikhs'? Ereynhtika erga (p.x. Ellhniko Mach)
h milas gia efarmoges? Apo to paradeigma poy dineis milas gia efarmoges.
Den nomizv ua bohuhsei me kanena tropo sthn anaptyjh ellhnikhs orologias
h estv sthn anaptyjh (ejagvgimhs) ellhnikhs texnognvsias. Apo oso jerv
opoiadhpote sobaro ereynhtiko ergo anejarthta apo to poy ginetai
xrhsimopoiei ta agglika. P.x. kaue MS/PhD thesis sthn Ollandia gia to
Amoeba(Distributed OS) grafetai sta agglika.
>>Ena allo paradeigma se auth thn periptwsh einai h Islandia kai h Filandia.
>>Exoun merikous apo tous kalyterous xakerades (hackers), eidika h Filandia.
>>Epishs exoun kai oi duo axrhstes glwsses pou den xrhsimopoiei kanenas
>>ektos apo tous idious. Nomizeis oti exoun metafrasei olh thn orologia
>>sta Finlandika? Apo tous Filandous pou kserw, den nomizw.
>Ma Spyro, den milame gia tin metafrasi olis tis orologias sta Ellinika.
>Omws, opws fanhke kai apo prohgoymena postings, ena poly megalo pososto
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mporei na apodothei ikanopoihtika. To kerdos tis Ellinikis apodosis einai
>oti bohtha sto na ginei pio prositi h Pliroforiki ston kosmo. Ayto
>bebaia den apokleiei tin synyparksh merikes fores kai tis Agglikis orologias.
>Se teliki analysi, an to manual ths PL/1 tha xrisimopoihthei apo deka
>ekseidikeymenoys epaggelmaties, einai koyto na metafrastei. Ayto omws
>den isxyei kai gia to manual p.x. toy DOS h' tou Unix.
>Apo tin alli, diafwnw me to xaraktirismo mias glwssas san axristi kai tin
>tasi gia isopedwsi twn pantwn sto onoma toy efhmeroy enos. To oti zoyme
>se mia epoxi poy h Agglikh einai (einai?) kyriarxi glwssa kai i
>Pliroforiki exei megalh simasia, den simainei oti agnooyme oles tis
>alles glwsses kai epistimes...
Ti einai megalo pososto? Pvs fanhke ayto apo ta paradeigmata? Xmm,
moy fainetai prepei na parv ena paper kai na steilv mia lista me
thn orologia na doyme.
>>Kai ena allo epixeirhma. Polles episthmes xrhsimopoioun Ellhnikh orologia
>>(p.x. Iatrikh, Zwologia, etc) sta Agglika. An oi Aggloi kai oi Amerikanoi
>>xrhsimopoioun dikes mas lekseis stis episthmes tous emeis giati den
>>xrhsimopoioume dikes tous stis dikes mas?
>Kaneis den to arneitai an ginetai me metro kai opoy den mporoyn na apodothoyn
>oi antistoixoi agglikoi oroi. Arketes ksenikes lekseis exoyn afomoiwthei apo
>tin Elliniki glwssa kai den yparxei tipota to asximo sto na prostesei
>i pliroforiki kai alles. Oxi omws stin alogisti xrisi twn Agglikwn leksewn
>ekei poy mporoyn na brethoyn isodynames ellinikes apodoseis (kai apo ta
>paradeigmata poy exoyn anaferthei mporoyn na yparksoyn kales apodoseis sth
>syntriptiki pleiopsifia twn orwn).
Nomizv telika oti den exoyme to idio pragma sto myalo mas otan milame gia
orologia ypologistvn. Esy milas gia to DOS kai egv milav gia orologia se
ereynhtiko epipedo. Mporei na metafrastoyn sta ellhnika oloi oi kainoyrgioi
oroi poy dhmioyrgoyntai kaue xrono? Yparxei telika periptvsh na xrhsimopoihsv
poyuena ellhnika se ereynhtiko epipedo?
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Yannis Schoinas
>In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>ri...@cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>>>
>>>Ksekinwntas apo to oti gia tin apodosi tis orologias kyrios
>>>stoxos den einai i akribis metafrasi, alla h katanohsh twn ennoiwn poy
>>>antistoixoyn stoys ksenoys oroys kai h aneyresi Ellinikwn leksewn poy na
>>>apodidoyn to nohma, den nomizw oti einai dyskoli h stadiaki anaptyksi kai
>>>kathierwsi Ellinikwn orwn. Etsi, metafraseis san tis epomenes, nomizw oti
>>>einai apolyta akribeis:
>>
>>Ti ennoeis na apodidoyn to idio nohma? Milame gia oroys oi opoioi apodidoyn
>>ena kainoyrio nohma, kati poy den yphrxe prin 40 xronia. Ara einai kataskeyasmenoi
>>oroi. Giati ua prepei ayth h kataskeyh na epanalhfuei estv se allh glvssa? Ua
>>toys kanei pio katanohtoys?
>Yparxei estw kai mia le3n se opoia6hpote glwssa, pou 6ev eivai kataskeuasmevn?
>Apo tov ouravo mas pesave, h fytrwsave moves tous? Otav o Agglos leei
>car/bus kai o Ellnvas autokhvnto/lewforeio, yphrxav autes oi le3eis priv
>emfavistouv ta prwta ama3ia/lewforeia? Se poia keimeva? Ka mia kai ta
>lewforeia 6ev eivai ellnvikh efeuresn, 8a pei oti metafrasame sta ellnvika
>kapoiov 3evo oro: e, auto kavoume kai e6w.
dictionary-> car
car n \'kar\
[ME carre, fr. AF, fr. L carra, pl. of carrum,
alter. of carrus, of Celt origin; akin to OIr & MW carr
vehicle; akin to L currere to run]
dictionary-> bus
1 bus n \'b*s\
pl bus.es bus.ses
often attrib
[short for omnibus]
dictionary-> omnibus
1 om.ni.bus n \'am-ni-(.)b*s\
[F, fr. L, for all, dat. pl. of omnis all]
Oi lejeis mporei na einai kataskeyasmenes alla toylaxiston gia to levforeio
fainetai poly akribhs metafrash. Oso gia thn agglikh lejh kai stis dyo
periprvseis mporoyme na broyme thn arxh toys merikes xiliades xronia pisv.
Alla to problhma moy den einai ayto. An kapoios oros xrhsimopoieitai apo
polloys anurvpoys kai gia poly xroniko diasthma ginetai fysikos, eisagetai
sthn glvssa. Den nomizv oti mporei na ginei ayto se mia perioxh me tetoia
taxythta ejelijhs h opoia ligo poly exei mia koinh glvssa (agglikh katagvghs)
se pagkosmio epipedo. An mia texnikh metafrash enos oroy den einai akribhs
einai gia mena axrhsth. An dhmioyrgei asafeies einai axrhsth. Koita kai parakatv.
> Dnla6h 8a leme
>"phga me to bus stnv Omoveia" epei6h 6ev prepei va kataskeuazoume le3eis?
>Kai pws 8a milagame? Me vohmata? Periergo epixeirnma...
Poses lejeis mporeis na metafrazeis petyxhmena kaue xrono?
>_Oti_ yparxei se morfh glwssas, eivai kataskeuasmevo, kai alles kataskeues
>epibiwsav, kai alles esbnsav. Ola eivai 8ema memetikhs.
>>> Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>
>>Nai, isvs o oros parolo poy den einai akribhs na exei kauiervuei...
>Tn mia les oti 6ev mporei va apo6i6ouv to i6io vonma, tnv alln psaxveis
>gia to i6io vonma... Ti 6ev sou aresei sto "Metaglwtisths", kai ti parapavw
>briskeis sto "Compiler"?
Sthn Krhth to onoma toy mauhmatos htan: Glvsses kai Metafrastes.
Bebaia, metafrasths kai metaglvtisths einai mallon to idio pragma.
Alla h anapodh metafrash poy ua ekana einai translator to opoio einai
kati allo apo ton compiler. H diadikasia den einai aplvs metafrash
alla kai synenvsh diaforetikvn kommativn se mia ontothta. Ayto akribvs
xanetai sthn ellhnikh metafrash. Koita to akribes nohma ths lejhs.
com.pile vt \k*m-'pi(*)l\
[ME compilen, fr. MF compiler, fr. L compilare to
plunder]
1 : to collect into a volume
2 : to compose out of materials from other documents
Xairetv,
Giannis.
880...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
>metafrash toy Panayoti kai me '' poy ua xrhsimopoioysa
>aytoysio ton aggliko oro.
>
>p...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD) writes:
>
>>In <921103154...@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c2...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>
>>>Auto einai kyriws giati polles alles episthmes askolountai me pragmata
>>>ta opoia einai xeiropiasta, i.e. concrete, iron, volt-meter, etc.
>>>To Computer science den einai kai toso xeiropiasto, kai ektws autwn
>>>h orologia exei terastio poso slang h lekseis pou den metafrazontai
>>>swsta oso kai na xtypame to kefali mas ston toixo:
>
>>> English Greek
>>> ------------------- -------------------
>>> Editor Ekdotis ''
>>> Font ??? ''
Grammatoseira (Xaracthres)
>>> Desktop Publishing ??? ''i
Ekdosh (giath na mhn einai
pio aplo apo th agglikh)
>>> Data Structures Domes Dedomenwn ""
>>> Linked list Syndedemeni Lista ""
>>> log in syndeomai == connect ''
> Allo pragma to ena allo to allo,
> gia na petyxei h metafrash den prepei
> na dhmioyrgei asafeies.
>
>>> reverse polish notation Antistrofi Polwniki simeiografia (?) '' or ""
>>> regression suite ??? ''
>
>>> attack dialer ??? ''
> Ayto shzhtietai kata poso einai texnikos oros
>
>>> pixel simeio, koukida ''
>>> cut-and-paste sbise kai antigrapse ''
> Einai sygkekrimenh energeia. Den exei nohma
> h metafrash ths.
>
>
>>> ------------------- -------------------
>>> queue Oura ""
>>> kill a process sbyse mia diadikasia skotvse mia DIERGASIA
>
>>> fork dimiourgise(?) == create ''
> Eipame gia asafeies, to fork
> shmioyrgei ena ANTIGRAFO mias diergasias.
>
>>> spool ??? spool
>>> pipe dioxeteuse/agwgos pipa(ayto einai ellhnikh slang)
>>> bus lewforos (oxi sokaki,:-) bus
Gramh re paidia.
>>> address bus lewforos dieythynsewn ''
>>> sink ??? kataboura einai o
> ellhnikos texnikos oros ''|""
>>> thread ??? ''
>>> window parathyro ""
>>> mouse pontiki ""
>>> widget ??? ''
>>> gadget mpixlimpidi(!?) ''
>>> scroll ??? ''
>>> pie chart ??? ''
>>>
To problhma pou exoume edw einai oti 8eloume na dimiourgisoume
le3eis pou exoun pragmatikes enies enw h Agglikh aplws dhmiourgouse ths le3eis
prwta kai meta pernan th enia tous.
And den h3eres apo komputer kai sou elege to biblio. "Piase to pondiki
and balto sto para8hro" Akougete to idio geleio sta Ellhnika oso kai sta
agglika. "Move the mouse to the window" Oi orii na dimiourgi8oune kai
h sunexh xrhsh 8a mas kanei na eimaste pio anetoi. Oi agglio den
fta3an dhskoles le3eis giati emeis ?
George
880...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
Twra pou to skeftomai, einai fush adhnaton na kanoume thn metafrash.
H episthm twn computers au3anetai sei polu gorgo ri8mo gia na thn prolaboume.
Pws einai dhnaton na metafrazoume orous otan gia na ma8oume ta teleutaia
nea prepei na ta ma8oume sta Agglika. An programatiseis se mia glwsa tote
prepei na thn ala3eis prwta se ellhnika. Ara 8a perimenoume gia thn Ellhnikh
ekdosh. Twra giath na ginei h Ellhnikh otan kaneis den agorazei to
programa outos h allos. 90% h peiratia sthn Ellada sumfwna me ena periodiko
Ellhniko. Suna autou otan bgei h glwssa sta Ellhnika twter ollo
to source code me ta coments (e3egiseis ;) einai sta agglika outos
h allos. Pali xanoume. Einai fhsh adhnaton loipon na ma8h kaneis gia
tous computesr xwris thn gnwsh ths Agglikhs. To idio einai gia
apandaxou ton kosmo. Oroi omws prepei na metafrastoun gia tous
orous po 8a xrisimopoioun o kosmos. dhladh to pondiki, to para8hro.
Oroi me tous opoious 3ekinane oi ma8htes. Prwgramma, glwssa, o8onh,
pliktrologio. Me tous opious na mhn panikoblh8h kai na ta parathsei.
Autaaaaaaaaaa
George
Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD
kai ena paratheigma pithanis metafrasis (sto polytimotero
organo tou Ellina - sto... gonato) kai egine olokliro thema.
To na leei kaneis oti i leksi "margin" exei noima enw i leksi
(px) "perithwrio" den exei den einai swsto. Apla epeidi ta
mathame etsi, mas fainetai kai apolyta fysiologiko na ta leme
etsi. An ta mathainame me Ellinikous orous (estw kai teleiws
akatallilous) tha mas fainotan apolyta fysiologiko na
xrisimopoioume autous, para tous Agglikous.
Den simainei oti mi Ellinikes lekseis den prepei na mpoun stin
glwssa mas, alla na min to parakanoume. Kai idiws ethesa to
thema san thema typopoisis (apo tous Ellines) kai egxeiridiwn,
klp. An den sebastoume emeis ta Ellinika, giati na ta sebastoun
oi ksenoi.
Auta kai xairetw
Rizos Sakellariou
H arxikh paragrafos anaferotan s'ena thema poy exei na kanei kyriws me thn
anaptyksh strathgikhs Plhroforikhs sthn Ellada para me th dhmioyrgia
orologias. Eksetazontas mono to deytero, kalo tha einai na anaferw prwta to
poy kai giati (kat' emena) xreiazetai ellhnikh orologia kai poy aposkopei h
dhmioyrgia ths (sthn ennoia orologia perikleiw kai to `window' kai to `desktop
publishing' alla kai to `lazy functional language' kai to `Spineless Tagless
Graph Reduction Machine'). Apla loipon, h ellhnikh orologia stoxeyei sto na
bohthhsei ton kosmo na eksoikeiwthei me thn Plhroforikh kai na thn kanei pio
prosith ston polith (bl. paradeigma me to plynthrio kai aggliko egxeiridio).
Epomenws, tithetai to erwthma: Gia poiwn orwn thn apodosh sta Ellhnika milame;
Profanws gia ekeinoys me toys opoioys tha'rthei s'epafi o aplos xrhsths h' o
foithths h' o poliths poy epithymei na apokthsei mia genikh enhmerwsh
sthn Plhroforikh. Arketoi apo toys oroys poy anefere o Spyros anhkoyn s'aythn
thn kathgoria (editor, font, desktop publishing, queue, pie chart, klp.).
Kai anefera kai sto prohgoymeno arthro kai epanalambanw to paradeigma twn
egxeiridiwn odhgiwn: an kapoio apeythynetai se ena sxetika mikro arithmo
anthrwpwn, einai askopo na metafrastei. An omws apeythynetai s' ena
eyry koino, tote, nai, ayto prepei na ginei.
Ara, o aforismos poy kanw, einai: "Nai sthn Ellhnikh orologia, otan
anaferomaste se oroys poy apeythynontai se ena eyrytero koino"
(Dieykrinish: H ellhnikh orologia den einai kati poy epiballetai. Pisteyw
omws oti oi epaggelmaties ths Plhroforikhs prepei na diamorfwnoyn Ellhnikh
orologia otan apeythynontai s'eyrytero akroathrio. To an tha ginei telika
apodekth, den tha eksarththei mono apo aytoys...).
Eksetazontas to thema perissotero apo thn pleyra toy epaggelmatia/foithth
(ara perissoterh ekseidikeysh), anapofeykta, yparxoyn oroi oi opoioi isws
einai dyskolo h' askopo (me thn ennoia oti den einai eyreias xrhshs kai
apeythynontai se ekseidikeymeno koino) na metafrastoyn. Omws, se arketoys
tomeis, yparxoyn apodoseis poy proswpika tis krinw apolyta akribeis (p.x
"normalisation"=kanonikopoihsh, "relational databases"=sxesiakes baseis
dedomenwn, "entities-relationships model"=montelo ontothtwn-sysxetisewn,
"time-scheduling"-xronodromologhsh, "register"=kataxwrhths, klp. -- Den
tis briskeis epityxhmenes; Tha entharrynes th didaskalia mathhmatwn opws
"Baseis Dedomenwn" h' "Leitoyrgika Systhmata" xrhsimopoiwntas mono
Agglikoys oroys;).
To problhma einai kathara thema epikoinwnias. Otan yparxei anagkh epikoinwnias
m'ena eyry Ellhniko koino, h Ellhnikh glwssa (ara kai orologia) prosferei
to kalytero ergaleio. Otan omws milame gia ereynhtika themata me ta opoia
asxoleitai sthn Ellada monopshfios arithmos ereynhtwn, tote to Ellhniko
koino periorizetai (ara ginetai askoph [bl. aforismos] h xrhsh Ellhnikwn
orwn), kai synhthws h Agglikh prosferei ena kalytero ergaleio epikoinwnias.
>Ti einai megalo pososto? Pvs fanhke ayto apo ta paradeigmata? Xmm,
>moy fainetai prepei na parv ena paper kai na steilv mia lista me
>thn orologia na doyme.
An eksetaseis ta paradeigmata se sxesh me to koino sto opoio apeythynontai,
tote isws symfwnhseis. Papers ta opoia sthn Ellada den endiaferoyn
perissoteroys apo 10 anthrwpoys, den mporw na ta balw sthn idia kathgoria
me keimena poy apeythynontai s' ena eyrytero koino.
>>Kaneis den to arneitai an ginetai me metro kai opoy den mporoyn na apodothoyn
>>oi antistoixoi agglikoi oroi. Arketes ksenikes lekseis exoyn afomoiwthei apo
>>tin Elliniki glwssa kai den yparxei tipota to asximo sto na prostesei
>>i pliroforiki kai alles. Oxi omws stin alogisti xrisi twn Agglikwn leksewn
>>ekei poy mporoyn na brethoyn isodynames ellinikes apodoseis (kai apo ta
>>paradeigmata poy exoyn anaferthei mporoyn na yparksoyn kales apodoseis sth
>>syntriptiki pleiopsifia twn orwn).
>Nomizv telika oti den exoyme to idio pragma sto myalo mas otan milame gia
>orologia ypologistvn. Esy milas gia to DOS kai egv milav gia orologia se
>ereynhtiko epipedo. Mporei na metafrastoyn sta ellhnika oloi oi kainoyrgioi
>oroi poy dhmioyrgoyntai kaue xrono? Yparxei telika periptvsh na xrhsimopoihsv
>poyuena ellhnika se ereynhtiko epipedo?
Blepe parapanw gia apanthseis kai epekshghseis. Pantws, as mhn ksexname oti
oi ereynhtes apoteloun th mikroterh se plhthysmo omada ap'osoys erxontai se
epafh me thn Plhroforikh (eidika sthn Ellada...).
> Xairetv,
> Giannis.
Antapodidw,
--rizos
Philip Santas
scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>>scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>>
>>>Ti ennoeis na apodidoyn to idio nohma? Milame gia oroys oi opoioi apodidoyn
>>>ena kainoyrio nohma, kati poy den yphrxe prin 40 xronia. Ara einai kataskeyasmenoi
>>>oroi. Giati ua prepei ayth h kataskeyh na epanalhfuei estv se allh glvssa? Ua
>>>toys kanei pio katanohtoys?
>
>>Yparxei estw kai mia le3n se opoia6hpote glwssa, pou 6ev eivai kataskeuasmevn?
>>Apo tov ouravo mas pesave, h fytrwsave moves tous? Otav o Agglos leei
>>car/bus kai o Ellnvas autokhvnto/lewforeio, yphrxav autes oi le3eis priv
>>emfavistouv ta prwta ama3ia/lewforeia? Se poia keimeva? Ka mia kai ta
>>lewforeia 6ev eivai ellnvikh efeuresn, 8a pei oti metafrasame sta ellnvika
>>kapoiov 3evo oro: e, auto kavoume kai e6w.
>
>dictionary-> bus
> [short for omnibus]
>dictionary-> omnibus
> [F, fr. L, for all, dat. pl. of omnis all]
>
>Oi lejeis mporei na einai kataskeyasmenes alla toylaxiston gia to levforeio
>fainetai poly akribhs metafrash. Oso gia thn agglikh lejh kai stis dyo
>periprvseis mporoyme na broyme thn arxh toys merikes xiliades xronia pisv.
Dhla6h kaveis 6iakriseis meta3y le3ewv pou 6nmiourgh8nkav priv merika
xrovia, kai le3ewv pou 6nmiourgh8nkav priv merikes meres?
Oso pio palia n le3n, toso pio kalh? Krasi eivai? H 3u6i?
Oxi tetoia epixeirhmata parakalw.
>Alla to problhma moy den einai ayto. An kapoios oros xrhsimopoieitai apo
>polloys anurvpoys kai gia poly xroniko diasthma ginetai fysikos, eisagetai
>sthn glvssa. Den nomizv oti mporei na ginei ayto se mia perioxh me tetoia
>taxythta ejelijhs h opoia ligo poly exei mia koinh glvssa (agglikh katagvghs)
>se pagkosmio epipedo. An mia texnikh metafrash enos oroy den einai akribhs
>einai gia mena axrhsth. An dhmioyrgei asafeies einai axrhsth.
Av xrnsimopoieietai kai metaferei ta snmaivomeva eivai poly xrhsimn.
Ti evvoeis me "akribh" metafrasn?
Pws metafrazeis "to be or not to be" sta ellnvika? Dnla6h prepei va
xrnsimopoioume movo oti yparxei sto prwtotypo?
>> Dnla6h 8a leme
>>"phga me to bus stnv Omoveia" epei6h 6ev prepei va kataskeuazoume le3eis?
>>Kai pws 8a milagame? Me vohmata? Periergo epixeirnma...
>
>Poses lejeis mporeis na metafrazeis petyxhmena kaue xrono?
Poses le3eis xrnsimopoieis petyxnmeva se ka8e paragrafo?
>>>> Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>
>Sthn Krhth to onoma toy mauhmatos htan: Glvsses kai Metafrastes.
>Bebaia, metafrasths kai metaglvtisths einai mallon to idio pragma.
Oxi. Ka8olou to i6io.
Oso afora tnv plnroforikh:
Compiler = Metaglwtisths
Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>Alla h anapodh metafrash poy ua ekana einai translator to opoio einai
>kati allo apo ton compiler. H diadikasia den einai aplvs metafrash
>alla kai synenvsh diaforetikvn kommativn se mia ontothta. Ayto akribvs
>xanetai sthn ellhnikh metafrash. Koita to akribes nohma ths lejhs.
>
> com.pile vt \k*m-'pi(*)l\
> 1 : to collect into a volume
> 2 : to compose out of materials from other documents
Kai pou faivetai o _akribhs_ orismos estw tou "Compile C" apo tov parapavw
_geviko_ orismo?
Koita, mpaivoume se loukia twra, pou eivai pera apo tnv ei6ikotnta mas.
Ta epixeirhmata peri akribeias/symbatotntas/para6osns eivai _avtikeimevika_
_keva_ kai kata tn gvwmn mou _asxeta_.
To movo epixeirnma pou stekei eivai auto tns xrhsns/xrnsimotntas: e6w movo
o xrovos 8a 6i3ei. Apo tnv pleura mou ev8arryvw prospa8eies metaforas twv
orwv sta ellnvika, gia tn 6nmiourgia mias _ellnvikhs_ ypo6omhs se auto to 8ema,
kai sto va givouv autes oi evvoies pio prosites sto eury mn-agglofwvo
ellnviko koivo. Esy mporeis va exeis 6iaforetikh apopsn kai va les
to para8uro "window" kai tnv Plnroforikh Computer Science mesa se ellnvikes
fraseis. Tzazepsame!
Xairetw, Filippos
Rizos Sakellariou
>ri...@cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>> An anaferesai stin anaptyksi logismikoy se xwres me xamilo kostos ergasias,
>> tote diafwnw oti emeis xreiazetai na kanoyme kati analogo. Kati tetoio
>> einai h paroxi ftinoy ergatikoy dynamikoy se xwres me ypsilo kosto ergasias.
>Oxi aparaithta me xamhlo kostos; Oi Souhdoi, Finlandoi, kai loipoi den
>douleuoun gia psixala. Kai omws ftiaxnoun kai 'gamw to software'.
Yparxei to paradeima ths Computer Logic, h opoia apo xronia kanei eksagwges
logismikoy sth Gallia kai ta paketa ths briskontai stis prwtes theseis se
pwlhseis (sth Gallia). Eksagwges paketwn exw thn entypwsh oti kanoyn kai h
Unisoft kai h Singular, xwris na eimai apolyta sigoyros, enw arithmos (~10??)
Ellhnikwn oikwn anaptykshs logismikoy (software houses -- wraia apodosh, den
briskeis;) symmetexoyn se programmata ths EOK (px. ESPRIT). H Intrasoft epishs
exei anaptyksei eksagwgikh drasthriothta (bl. Lotto). De nomizw oti h Ellada
exei elleipsh texnikwn poy tha anaptyksoyn logismiko. Tetoioi yparxoyn arketoi
kai ikanoi, kai sigoyra den ameibontai ploysioparoxa...
>> Nomizw oti ayto poy leipei apo tin Ellada einai mia kentriki stratigiki
>> me basi tin opoia tha ylopoihthoyn megala erga Pliroforikis. H apousia mias
>> tetoias stratigikis kollaei isws stis adynamies toy dimosioy tomea. Sto
>> na baloyme ena PC sto farmakeio h' sto video-club tis geitonias pame kala,
>> isws kalytera apo kathe alli xwra. Ti ginetai omws me tin Pliroforiki stis
>> dimosies ypiresies, epixeiriseis koinis wfeleias, klp. ekei poy pragmatika
>> yparxei anagki;
>To megalo mou oneiro... Na mporesw na parw (oxi egw alla kapoios),
>foithtiko synalagma xwris xartodouleia: Diabathrio, eksetaseis
>agglikwn (kanoun akoma?), anabolh stratou, poiniko mhtrww, forologiko
>mhtrww (record re!), etc.
Ap'oti thymamai: Diabathrio = 2 hmeres kai xwris H/Y, anabolh stratoy = kai
ypologistes na baloyn pali tha se talaipwroyn, poiniko mhtrwo = 1 hmera pali
xwris H/Y, efories = ypotithetai oti yparxei hdh se ekseliksh sxedio
mhxanografhshs olwn twn eforiwn ===> Ara pame kala kai xwris H/Y...(!!!)
To erwthma einai: gia na proxwrhsei h mhxanografhsh se oloys aytoys toys
tomeis, ti xreiazomaste; Texnikoys h' epitelika stelexh poy tha baloyn to
maxairi sth plhgh; Pisteyw, to deytero. Kai ekei einai poy xwlainoyme san xwra.
Oi logoi einai ligo-poly gnwstoi...
Dimitrios FILIPPOU
>fili...@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU) writes:
>> > English Greek
>> > ------------------- -------------------
>> > Editor EKDOTIS KEIMENOU
>> > Font GRAMMATOSEIRA
>> > Desktop Publishing O KASES 'i TO FTIAXIMO TOY KASE
>>
>> Oi oroi aftoi hrisimopoiountai apo tous ellines tipografous
>> Tous gnwrizw apo proswpiki empeiria stin ekdosi epistimonikou periodikou
>> stin Ellada (douleva ws diorthwtis otan imouna proptihiakos foititis sto
>> E.M.P. :-))
>
>Dhladh an o pateras mou einai typografos kserw thn orologia, alliws
>thn kaname apo koupes.
Ki omws, tha mporousame oloi emeis pou psahnoume na vroume neous el-
linikous orous gia tin epistimi tis Pliroforikis na daneistoume idi
iparhontes orous apo allous tomeis. P.h., osoi asholountai me tin
Epexergasia Keimenou kai tin Ilektroniki Stoiheiothesia (p.h., WP, nroff,
TeX, k.lp.), mporoun na hrisimopoiisoun aneta to lexilogio twn ellinwn
tipografwn. Paromoia, osoi asholountai me Metafores Dedomenwn, Epikoinwnia
Mihanwn, k.lp. daneizontai to lexilogio twn ilektrologwn mihanikwn, osoi
asholontai me Arithmitiki Analisi daneizontai to lexilogio twn mathimati-
kwn, k.o.k.
>H idea tou FONT san Grammatoseira einai lathos. To parakatw einai
>gramatoseira: anciuynunlqsuiodioliwqjhldoih. Auto einai font: 9x15b.
Nomizw pws o pliris oros einai <<tipografiki grammatoseira>>. Omws
ehei epikratisei na legetai apla grammatoseira kai, proswpika, to
vriskw kalo. Allwste posoi kai posoi agglikoi oroi tis Pliroforikis
apodidoun swsta to no.i.ma tous s'enan agglofwno mi-shetiko me tous
ipologistes;
>Dhmhtrh, to vasiko provlhma pou exw einai oti ta Ellhnika einai poly
>polyplokh glwssa me thn opoia thelei megalh prosoxh gia na ekfrasteis
>un-ambiguously. (:-)).
S'opoiadipote glwssa ki an ekfrasteis, diatreheis panta ton kindino
na eisai asafis ki akatalavistikos. To pws tha ekfrasteis swsta einai
PROSWPIKI TEHNI ki apaitei PAIDEIA. Den einai provlima tis ellinikis
glwssas 'i twn ellinofwnwn...
>Epishs einai kai (prwsopiko) thema sunhteias.
Etsi akrivws! (Na leme, loipon, ta sika sika... :-))
O <<ametano.i.tos>> ki <<asighwritos>> eggonos sou,
Dimitris
Yannis Schoinas
Oxi, anaferomoyn sto oti h metafrash einai akribhs. Kai den htan akribvs
kataskeyasmenes.
>>Alla to problhma moy den einai ayto. An kapoios oros xrhsimopoieitai apo
>>polloys anurvpoys kai gia poly xroniko diasthma ginetai fysikos, eisagetai
>>sthn glvssa. Den nomizv oti mporei na ginei ayto se mia perioxh me tetoia
>>taxythta ejelijhs h opoia ligo poly exei mia koinh glvssa (agglikh katagvghs)
>>se pagkosmio epipedo. An mia texnikh metafrash enos oroy den einai akribhs
>>einai gia mena axrhsth. An dhmioyrgei asafeies einai axrhsth.
>Av xrnsimopoieietai kai metaferei ta snmaivomeva eivai poly xrhsimn.
>Ti evvoeis me "akribh" metafrasn?
Den metaferei to idio periexomeno kai den dhmioyrgei toys idioys syneirmoys
poy fernoyn sto myalo mia apoch toy fainomenoy/antikeimenoy/diadikasias to
opoio orizei.
>Pws metafrazeis "to be or not to be" sta ellnvika? Dnla6h prepei va
>xrnsimopoioume movo oti yparxei sto prwtotypo?
Oxi, alla o mesos "episthmonas plhroforikhs", afoy to protimas, den
einai akribos eidikos metafrasths. Ki oso gia epitropes ki istories
den nomizv oti an baleis 10 asxetoys exeis kalytera apotelesmata.
Aytos poy ua metafrasei ton oro prepei na einai gnvsths ths shmasias
toy, ths istorias toy kai na exei to talento gia mia petyxhmenh metafrash.
>>> Dnla6h 8a leme
>>>"phga me to bus stnv Omoveia" epei6h 6ev prepei va kataskeuazoume le3eis?
>>>Kai pws 8a milagame? Me vohmata? Periergo epixeirnma...
>>
>>Poses lejeis mporeis na metafrazeis petyxhmena kaue xrono?
>Poses le3eis xrnsimopoieis petyxnmeva se ka8e paragrafo?
Syggnvmh?
>>>>> Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>
>>Sthn Krhth to onoma toy mauhmatos htan: Glvsses kai Metafrastes.
>>Bebaia, metafrasths kai metaglvtisths einai mallon to idio pragma.
>Oxi. Ka8olou to i6io.
>Oso afora tnv plnroforikh:
>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
Oxi, den einai etsi. Oi metafraseis poy eixame htan:
Compiler = Metafrasths
Interpreter = Diermhneyths
Phres mia idea ths sygxyshs gia thn opoia milav.
>>Alla h anapodh metafrash poy ua ekana einai translator to opoio einai
>>kati allo apo ton compiler. H diadikasia den einai aplvs metafrash
>>alla kai synenvsh diaforetikvn kommativn se mia ontothta. Ayto akribvs
>>xanetai sthn ellhnikh metafrash. Koita to akribes nohma ths lejhs.
>>
>> com.pile vt \k*m-'pi(*)l\
>> 1 : to collect into a volume
>> 2 : to compose out of materials from other documents
>Kai pou faivetai o _akribhs_ orismos estw tou "Compile C" apo tov parapavw
>_geviko_ orismo?
Den katalaba ti ennoeis. An ennoeis ti moy deixnei h frash "compile C"
apo thn frash "metaglvtisa/metafrasa C" einai akribvs ayto poy lev.
Uymhsoy ta header files kaneis include se ena C source file. Alla
uymhsoy kai thn epanaxrhsimopoihsh kvdika kauvs kobeis kai rabeis
palia soy programmata gia na ftiajeis to kainoyrio.
>Koita, mpaivoume se loukia twra, pou eivai pera apo tnv ei6ikotnta mas.
>Ta epixeirhmata peri akribeias/symbatotntas/para6osns eivai _avtikeimevika_
>_keva_ kai kata tn gvwmn mou _asxeta_.
>To movo epixeirnma pou stekei eivai auto tns xrhsns/xrnsimotntas: e6w movo
>o xrovos 8a 6i3ei. Apo tnv pleura mou ev8arryvw prospa8eies metaforas twv
>orwv sta ellnvika, gia tn 6nmiourgia mias _ellnvikhs_ ypo6omhs se auto to 8ema,
>kai sto va givouv autes oi evvoies pio prosites sto eury mn-agglofwvo
>ellnviko koivo. Esy mporeis va exeis 6iaforetikh apopsn kai va les
>to para8uro "window" kai tnv Plnroforikh Computer Science mesa se ellnvikes
>fraseis. Tzazepsame!
Opvs soy eipa telika den mporv na to apofygv. Einai toso polloi oi oroi
poy apokleietai pote na einai praktikh h metafrash toys. Ara env einai
alhueia oti to krithrio toy Rizoy sxetika me to poso diadedomenoi einai
moy fainetai svsto, den me bohuaei. Ki afoy prokeitai gia thn pleiochfia
tvn orvn poy xrhsimopoiv na mhn toys metafrazv, den exei kai poly shmasia
gia mena to ti ginetai me thn meiochfia.
Alhueia, pvs metafrazeis to "multimedia"?
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Philip Santas
In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>
>>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>
>Oxi, den einai etsi. Oi metafraseis poy eixame htan:
>Compiler = Metafrasths
>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
sto katw katw tns grafhs?
(mou 8umise to koufo: "Astyvomia Polewv", to opoio bebaia
e3aleif8nke me tn paro6o tou xrovou...)
>Phres mia idea ths sygxyshs gia thn opoia milav.
To oti merikoi asxetoi kavouv tou kefaliou tous, eivai to
movo pou 6nmiourgei sygxnsn. As apofasisouv telika se mia
_swsth_ orologia, kai as stamathsouv tis kotsaves: Swsta ellnvika
vai, mparmpoutsala oxi.
>>> com.pile vt \k*m-'pi(*)l\
>>> 1 : to collect into a volume
>>> 2 : to compose out of materials from other documents
>
>>Kai pou faivetai o _akribhs_ orismos estw tou "Compile C" apo tov parapavw
>>_geviko_ orismo?
>
>Den katalaba ti ennoeis. An ennoeis ti moy deixnei h frash "compile C"
>apo thn frash "metaglvtisa/metafrasa C" einai akribvs ayto poy lev.
>Uymhsoy ta header files kaneis include se ena C source file. Alla
>uymhsoy kai thn epanaxrhsimopoihsh kvdika kauvs kobeis kai rabeis
>palia soy programmata gia na ftiajeis to kainoyrio.
Otav kaveis CC anExample.c 6ev kaveis movo kopsimo kai rapsimo,
alla kai _metaglwtizeis_ to olo "koustoumaki". Pou faivetai auto
stov orismo tou Compile?
>Alhueia, pvs metafrazeis to "multimedia"?
Alh8eia, poios eivai o akribhs _orismos_ tou Multimedia?
H tou Hypermedia? O ka8evas exei tn 6ikia tou apopsn gia to 8ema.
Apo tnv alln exw akousei kai arketes koufes metafores orwv
sta ellnvika opws:
Object Oriented Programming: "Avtikeimevostrofos Programmatismos" !!!
(ti lete re pai6ia? To _aplo_, _eukolokatavonto_ kai realistiko
"Programmatismos me Avtikeimeva" 6ev to skefthkate?)
Interface: "Ev6wmetwpi6a". !!! kai pali !!!
To "Programma Diaproswpias", (afou suvh8ws inter+something -> 6ia+kati)
h estw "Programma Epikoivwvias", h kai stnv xeirotern twv periptwsewv
"Ev6iameso Programma" 6ev sas kavei?
Interface _6ev_ eivai InTheFace :-)
Movo eav ypar3ei _realistikh_ kai _bath_ metafrasn, 8a exoume kai metafora
tns syvtrnptikhs pleiopshefeias twv orwv sta ellnvika. Alliws, 8a milame
blaxo-egglivika opws:
kompilarise auto to programma.
biase to file.
programmatizw avtikeimevostrofika me klaseis (kai me 6iplo 6iaforiko,
trabaei stnv avnfora, klp :-)
Pws Ev6wmetwpizeis?
kai alles ares-mares-koukouvares...
Xairetw, Filippos
Yannis Schoinas
>In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>>
>>>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>>
>>Oxi, den einai etsi. Oi metafraseis poy eixame htan:
>>Compiler = Metafrasths
>>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
>Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
>Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
>sto katw katw tns grafhs?
>(mou 8umise to koufo: "Astyvomia Polewv", to opoio bebaia
>e3aleif8nke me tn paro6o tou xrovou...)
>>Phres mia idea ths sygxyshs gia thn opoia milav.
>To oti merikoi asxetoi kavouv tou kefaliou tous, eivai to
>movo pou 6nmiourgei sygxnsn. As apofasisouv telika se mia
>_swsth_ orologia, kai as stamathsouv tis kotsaves: Swsta ellnvika
>vai, mparmpoutsala oxi.
Nomizv oti den exeis katalabei akribvs poio einai to problhma moy.
Kauomai poy les kai diabazv ena episthmoniko aruro kai meta erxetai
enas filos kai syzhtame panv se ayto. As kanoyme thn ypouesh oti
eimaste kai oi dyo Ellhnes. H monh epilogh poy exoyme einai na
xrhsimopoihsoyme ellhnika me agglikoys ametafrastoys oroys h na
xrhsimopoihsoyme agglika. Thn deyterh epilogh thn briskv ligo
geloia kai ara protimv thn prvth. An me rvtas giati den metafrazv
toys oroys sta ellhnika, ua soy pv oti den eimai epaggelmatias
metafrasths, dhl. telika den nivuv sigoyros oti h gnvsh moy toso
ths agglikhs glvssas oso kai ths ellhnikhs moy epitrepei na kanv
aythn thn doyleia, ua soy pv oti yparxoyn kalytera pragmata gia
na spatalhsv ton xrono moy kai ua soy pv oti den einai sigoyros
oti o allos ua katalabei giati toy milav an den toy dvsv prvta
kai thn antistoixia orologias.
Elpizv na symfvneis oti o mesos episthmonas plhroforikhs den einai
se uesh na kanei mia petyxhmenh metafrash orologias opvs kai o mesos
filologos den einai se uesh na metafrasei petyxhmena agglikh logotexnia.
Gia thn akribeia, einai poly xeirotera giati o filologos exei poly
kalyterh gnvsh tvn glvssvn apo oti enas episthmonas plhroforikhs.
Ara xreiazomaste metafrastes me talento kai gnvsh ths perioxhs.
Posoi tetoioi nomizeis oti yparxoyn sthn Ellada? Kai yparxei pote
periptvsh na metafrasoyn sta ellhnika oloys toys agglikoys texnikoys
oroys? Kai den prepei na jexname oti h orologia sta agglika allazei
synexvs se mia perioxh. Rije mia matia p.x. se arura arxitektonikhs
h leitoyrgikvn systhmatvn grammena prin deka-eikosi xronia kai
grammena shmera. Rije mia matia sta RFCs gia to Internet kai na
moy tryphseis thn myth an den breis kai apo enan kainoyrio oro se
kaue ena apo ayta(gia ta networks standards h orologia einai asta
na pane). Ara katalhgv oti an prokeitai na xrhsimopoihsv ta "blaxoellhnika",
opvs ta les, gia na synnenohuv me kapoion Ellhna gia thn pleiochfia
tvn periptvsevn eilikrina den dinv dekara gia to poia ua einai h
epishmh metafrash gia to elaxisto pososto tvn orvn eyreias katanalvshs.
Alhueia, den katalaba akribvs to problhma soy me to diermhneyths.
Kai telvs pantvn poia h diafora metajy metaglvtisth kai metafrasth?
>>>> com.pile vt \k*m-'pi(*)l\
>>>> 1 : to collect into a volume
>>>> 2 : to compose out of materials from other documents
>>
>>>Kai pou faivetai o _akribhs_ orismos estw tou "Compile C" apo tov parapavw
>>>_geviko_ orismo?
>>
>>Den katalaba ti ennoeis. An ennoeis ti moy deixnei h frash "compile C"
>>apo thn frash "metaglvtisa/metafrasa C" einai akribvs ayto poy lev.
>>Uymhsoy ta header files kaneis include se ena C source file. Alla
>>uymhsoy kai thn epanaxrhsimopoihsh kvdika kauvs kobeis kai rabeis
>>palia soy programmata gia na ftiajeis to kainoyrio.
>Otav kaveis CC anExample.c 6ev kaveis movo kopsimo kai rapsimo,
>alla kai _metaglwtizeis_ to olo "koustoumaki". Pou faivetai auto
>stov orismo tou Compile?
>>Alhueia, pvs metafrazeis to "multimedia"?
>Alh8eia, poios eivai o akribhs _orismos_ tou Multimedia?
>H tou Hypermedia? O ka8evas exei tn 6ikia tou apopsn gia to 8ema.
Den exv idea. Alla otan eruei to tade paketo sthn Ellada kai paei
mia etairia na to poylhsei san ti synistas na to metafrasei mias
kai to multimedia den einai ellhnikos oros(h mhpvs ta latinika
epitrepontai)?
>Apo tnv alln exw akousei kai arketes koufes metafores orwv
>sta ellnvika opws:
>Object Oriented Programming: "Avtikeimevostrofos Programmatismos" !!!
> (ti lete re pai6ia? To _aplo_, _eukolokatavonto_ kai realistiko
> "Programmatismos me Avtikeimeva" 6ev to skefthkate?)
>Interface: "Ev6wmetwpi6a". !!! kai pali !!!
> To "Programma Diaproswpias", (afou suvh8ws inter+something -> 6ia+kati)
> h estw "Programma Epikoivwvias", h kai stnv xeirotern twv periptwsewv
> "Ev6iameso Programma" 6ev sas kavei?
> Interface _6ev_ eivai InTheFace :-)
>Movo eav ypar3ei _realistikh_ kai _bath_ metafrasn, 8a exoume kai metafora
>tns syvtrnptikhs pleiopshefeias twv orwv sta ellnvika. Alliws, 8a milame
>blaxo-egglivika opws:
> kompilarise auto to programma.
> biase to file.
> programmatizw avtikeimevostrofika me klaseis (kai me 6iplo 6iaforiko,
> trabaei stnv avnfora, klp :-)
> Pws Ev6wmetwpizeis?
>kai alles ares-mares-koukouvares...
Kai janalev oti to problhma einai poios ua kanei aytes tis metafraseis.
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Theodoros Sp. Zarros
s' ayth thn poly endiaferoysa koybenta ,sxetika me thn orologia twn ypologi-
stwn.
In article <1992Nov12....@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>
>In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>
>>>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>
>>Compiler = Metafrasths
>>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
>
>>>Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
>>>Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
>>>sto katw katw tns grafhs?
>
>>Alhueia, den katalaba akribvs to problhma soy me to diermhneyths.
>
To idio problhma eixa ki egw . O "egkefalos" poy epinohse ton diermhneyth
prepei na eixe ba0eia gnwsh ths Ellhnikhs glwssas. H pros0hkh paragwgikwn
katalhksewn einai synh0ismenh se metafraseis kai ka0e allo , para asxetosynh,
mporei na 0ewrh0ei. 0a mporoyse isws na xrhsimopoih0ei kai to <diermhneas>,
alla kai to diermhneyths an kai kapws adokimo , den einai ka0oloy la0os.
>To i6io opws otav les tov ergatn ergateuth, tov kourea koureuth,
>tov xasapn xasapeuth kok. Pisteuw va katalabaiveis tn 6iafora.
Ta antiparadeigmata soy einai astoxa. Ta oysiastika ergaths , koyreas klp
proerxontai apo ta antistoixa rhmata me thn pros0hkh ths paragwgikhs kata-
lhkshs -as -ths klp. To ergaths den mporei na einai ergateyths giati
proerxetai apo to rhma ergazomai . O diermhneas mporei na einai omws
diermhney-ths apo to diermhneyw. Fantazomai oti kapote to xrhsimopoioysan,
alla epekrathse to diermhneas xarin syntomias.
[stuff deleted]
>
>H apo6osn metaglwtisths/metafrasths eivai i6avikh.
>
Den kserw ti lete 'seis , egw omws sthn Patra edina Metafrastes I ,II
kai htan Compilers :-)
Mia apo tis metafraseis poy moy exei meinei apo 'keines tis epoxes einai
ayth toy <operand> se <entelo> !
>
>Xairetw, Filippos
Antixairetw,
0odwros Zarros.
Philip Santas
In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>Compiler = Metafrasths
>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
>>Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
>>Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
>>sto katw katw tns grafhs?
>Alhueia, den katalaba akribvs to problhma soy me to diermhneyths.
To i6io opws otav les tov ergatn ergateuth, tov kourea koureuth,
tov xasapn xasapeuth kok. Pisteuw va katalabaiveis tn 6iafora.
>Kai telvs pantvn poia h diafora metajy metaglvtisth kai metafrasth?
O metaglwtisths metaglwtizei apo mia glwssa se alln:
opws kavei o C++/Modula/Eiffel compiler/metaglwtisths sou.
O metafrasths paei frasn frasn: opws kavei o ML/scheme
interpreter/metafrasths sou, kai sou metaferei ta apotelesmata.
H apo6osn metaglwtisths/metafrasths eivai i6avikh.
>[...]Ara katalhgv oti an prokeitai na xrhsimopoihsv ta "blaxoellhnika",
blaxo-egglnvika eipa :-)
>opvs ta les, gia na synnenohuv me kapoion Ellhna gia thn pleiochfia
>tvn periptvsevn eilikrina den dinv dekara gia to poia ua einai h
>epishmh metafrash gia to elaxisto pososto tvn orvn eyreias katanalvshs.
Kavovika 8a eprepe va 6ivetai n apaitoumevn prosoxh.
>Kai janalev oti to problhma einai poios ua kanei aytes tis metafraseis.
Emeis.
Xairetw, Filippos
Yannis Schoinas
>In article <schoinas....@cs.wisc.edu> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>>>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>>Compiler = Metafrasths
>>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
>>>Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
>>>Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
>>>sto katw katw tns grafhs?
>>Alhueia, den katalaba akribvs to problhma soy me to diermhneyths.
>To i6io opws otav les tov ergatn ergateuth, tov kourea koureuth,
>tov xasapn xasapeuth kok. Pisteuw va katalabaiveis tn 6iafora.
Mporeis na moy peis poioys akribvs nomoys ths ellhnikhs glvssas
parabainei h lejh 'diermnveuths'? Giati san antiueta paradeigmata
pare to ermhneia-ermhneyths, diakonia-diakoneyths, pramateia-pramateyths.
>>Kai telvs pantvn poia h diafora metajy metaglvtisth kai metafrasth?
>O metaglwtisths metaglwtizei apo mia glwssa se alln:
>opws kavei o C++/Modula/Eiffel compiler/metaglwtisths sou.
>O metafrasths paei frasn frasn: opws kavei o ML/scheme
>interpreter/metafrasths sou, kai sou metaferei ta apotelesmata.
Eisai sigoyros oti h akribhs ermeinia ths lejhs 'metafrasths' sta
ellhnika einai aytos poy doyleyei frash-frash? H entypvsh moy einai
oti aytoi poy metafrazoyn se pragmatiko xrono legontai diermhneis.
Env aytoi poy metafrazoyn p.x. ena biblio legontai metafrastes.
Eilikrina pantvs, den katalabainv toys syneirmoys soy. H diafora metajy
compiler kai interpreter den einai sto an phgainoyn frash-frash. To front
end kai stis dyo periptvseis phgainei statement-statement. An diaferoyn
se kati einai sto an ekteleitai o sygkekrimenos kvdikas h oxi. Sthn deyterh
periptvsh sygketrvnetai se mia ontothta. H metafrash kai stis dyo periptvseis
ginetai kata logikes ontothtes ki oxi me mias.
>H apo6osn metaglwtisths/metafrasths eivai i6avikh.
Den ua symfvnoysa.
>>[...]Ara katalhgv oti an prokeitai na xrhsimopoihsv ta "blaxoellhnika",
>blaxo-egglnvika eipa :-)
Den to proseja. Pantvs einai petyxhmeno.
>>opvs ta les, gia na synnenohuv me kapoion Ellhna gia thn pleiochfia
>>tvn periptvsevn eilikrina den dinv dekara gia to poia ua einai h
>>epishmh metafrash gia to elaxisto pososto tvn orvn eyreias katanalvshs.
>Kavovika 8a eprepe va 6ivetai n apaitoumevn prosoxh.
Nai, isvs exeis dikio.
>>Kai janalev oti to problhma einai poios ua kanei aytes tis metafraseis.
>Emeis.
Uevreis ton eayto soy empeiro metafrasth? Prosvpika, den uevrv ton eayto
moy ikano. Akoma kaneis se ayto to thread den dokimase na metafrasei kapoioys
apo toys parakatv oroys.
monitor (oxi h ouonh:-)
path expressions
conditional critical regions
critical sections
CSP(communicating sequential processes)
RPC(remote procedure call)
capability
benchmark
log-structured filesystem
pipeline
scalar
aggregate
record
debugger
GIF
privacy
authentication
swapping
replication
key
lock
token
Xairetv,
Giannis.
Gregory Dandulakis
As kanw mia prospatheia na proteinw orous mias pou o Giannhs prokalei :-):
>monitor (oxi h ouonh:-) Biglatoras (krhtikh leksh, ellhnikh den
>path expressions kserw...:-))
>conditional critical regions
>critical sections
>CSP(communicating sequential processes)
>RPC(remote procedure call)
>capability Ikanothta
>benchmark bench=pagkos (xhmeia)
>log-structured filesystem
>pipeline
>scalar Bathmwto (se antithesh dianusmatiko)
>aggregate Susswmatwma (xhmeia)
>record
>debugger
>GIF
>privacy
>authentication
>swapping Mpainobgazw
>replication Anasundiasmos (Biologia: tou DNA...)
>key Kleidi, plhktro
>lock
>token Marka
>
>
> Xairetv,
> Giannis
Kai egw,
Gr
Philip Santas
In article <1992Nov13....@cunews.carleton.ca> zar...@scs.carleton.ca (Theodoros Sp. Zarros) writes:
>Eixa arketo kairo na diabasw scg kai ksafniasthka eyxarista poy epesa panw
>s' ayth thn poly endiaferoysa koybenta ,sxetika me thn orologia twn ypologi-
>stwn.
Kalws hr8es sto syllogo twv "ypologisteutwv" :-)
> san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>> scho...@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
>>
>>>>Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
>>>>Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
>>>>sto katw katw tns grafhs?
>To idio problhma eixa ki egw . O "egkefalos" poy epinohse ton diermhneyth
>prepei na eixe ba0eia gnwsh ths Ellhnikhs glwssas. H pros0hkh paragwgikwn
>katalhksewn einai synh0ismenh se metafraseis kai ka0e allo , para asxetosynh,
>mporei na 0ewrh0ei. 0a mporoyse isws na xrhsimopoih0ei kai to <diermhneas>,
>alla kai to diermhneyths an kai kapws adokimo , den einai ka0oloy la0os.
"Kapws" _a6okimo_? Eilikriva eivai n prwtn fora pou blepw auto tov oro
(to i6io kai arketoi alloi). Otan yparxei h6n evas oros pou apo6i6ei
eva vonma, 6ev xreiazetai va pros8eseis kai alln syllabh kai va to kaveis
_tsirko_ gia va 3avapeis ta i6ia pragmata:
6iermnveuw --> 6iermnveas
koureuw --> koureas (kai oxi koureuths)
>>>Mporeis na moy peis poioys akribvs nomoys ths ellhnikhs glvssas
>>>parabainei h lejh 'diermnveuths'? Giati san antiueta paradeigmata
>>>pare to ermhneia-ermhneyths, diakonia-diakoneyths, pramateia-pramateyths.
Pas gyreuovtas:
eisaggeleia ---> eisaggeleas (kai pros 8eou: oxi eisaggeleuths)
basileia ---> basilias (kai oxi basileuths)
grammateia ---> grammateas (kai oxi grammateuths)
Gia tsekarise kai pali ta peri "6iakovias". Kati 6ev paei kala...
Osov afora tn pragmateia klp, yparxei to pragmateuomai
opws kai politeia -> politeuomai -> politeuths
to opoio 6ev tairiazei ka8olou me to 6iermnveuw ---> 6iermnveas
basileuw -> basileas klp.
>>To i6io opws otav les tov ergatn ergateuth, tov kourea koureuth,
>>tov xasapn xasapeuth kok. Pisteuw va katalabaiveis tn 6iafora.
>Ta antiparadeigmata soy einai astoxa. Ta oysiastika ergaths , koyreas klp
>proerxontai apo ta antistoixa rhmata me thn pros0hkh ths paragwgikhs kata-
>lhkshs -as -ths klp. To ergaths den mporei na einai ergateyths giati
>proerxetai apo to rhma ergazomai . O diermhneas mporei na einai omws
>diermhney-ths apo to diermhneyw. Fantazomai oti kapote to xrhsimopoioysan,
>alla epekrathse to diermhneas xarin syntomias.
Mporei va to favtasesai, alla gia para6eigma to "basileuths", "eisaggeleuths",
klp pote 6ev yphr3av. Twra eav kapoioi kataskeuazouv gia va kavouv tous
e3ypvous, me geia tous me xara tous. Dev pauouv omws va kavouv blakeies.
>>>Eisai sigoyros oti h akribhs ermeinia ths lejhs 'metafrasths' sta
>>>ellhnika einai aytos poy doyleyei frash-frash? H entypvsh moy einai
>>>oti aytoi poy metafrazoyn se pragmatiko xrono legontai diermhneis.
>>>Env aytoi poy metafrazoyn p.x. ena biblio legontai metafrastes.
Ti 6ouleia exei o pragmatikos xrovos e6w?
Eav peis
fun f()=f()
evas "compiler" to kavei se "pragmatiko xrovo", evas "interpreter"
8a perimevei ws tn 6eutera parousia.
Milame gia leitourgies e6w, kai oxi gia xrovometrhseis.
Kai pou ei6es oti symfwvw me to Diermnveas?
>>>Eilikrina pantvs, den katalabainv toys syneirmoys soy. H diafora metajy
>>>compiler kai interpreter den einai sto an phgainoyn frash-frash. To front
>>>end kai stis dyo periptvseis phgainei statement-statement. An diaferoyn
>>>se kati einai sto an ekteleitai o sygkekrimenos kvdikas h oxi. Sthn deyterh
>>>periptvsh sygketrvnetai se mia ontothta. H metafrash kai stis dyo periptvseis
>>>ginetai kata logikes ontothtes ki oxi me mias.
Koita kai pali (kala, prwtoeths eisai? :-): o "compiler" paei apo mia glwssa
se allh (sto eviameso mporei va paragei eva swro kw6ikes), mesw evos
meta-sythmatos pou kavei avtistoixies se glwsses, kavei metaglwtisn,
eivai metaglwtisths.
O "interpreter" _6ev_ paei se alln glwssa, xrnsimopoiei tis eswterikes 6omes
tou systhmatos gia va metaferei tous orismous pou tou 6iveis, kai xrhsimopoiei
to olo systhma kai gia ta epomeva sta6ia: auto to kavei mesw evos meta-sythmatos
pou epe3ergazetai _oxi_ glwsses, alla _ekfraseis_ mias sygkekrimevs glwssas:
kavei metafrasn.
Twra eav mplekesai me ta biblia kai tnv metafrasn apo ta agglika
sta ellnvika, e, 6ev vomizw va eivai sxetiko me auta pou givovtai
sto mnxavnma.
Osov afora to Diermnveas: as to krathsouv gia tous Translators.
(6iafwvei kaveis?)
>>H apo6osn metaglwtisths/metafrasths eivai i6avikh.
>
>Den kserw ti lete 'seis , egw omws sthn Patra edina Metafrastes I ,II
>kai htan Compilers :-)
Ta perases toulaxistov? :-)
Xairetw, Filippos
Dimitrios Lambrinos
In article <1992Nov13.2...@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, san...@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
> Dev mas les: Poiov 3ereis pou eivai Metaglwtisths ws eppaggelma?
> Kai milame gia _Fysikh_ Glwssa se auth tn periptwsn (Natural Language,
> gia va to katalabeis :-)
Pollous, Stnv Ellada oxi kai tosous, alla stnv upoloipn Eurwpn para pollous.
Metaglwtistns, Metaglwtizw, Metaglwtismenos.
Sumfwna me tnv entupwsn pou exw sxnmatisei (den jerw an einai swstn n oxi),
Metaglwtistns einai autos pou douleue (den jerw an douleuei akoma) stnv ERT ( n ET1)
YENED (or ET2) kai metaglwtize jenes tainies sta Ellnvika.
Meta-glwtizw -----> anaferetai se Speech (Offline).
Metafrastns ------> anaferetai se Written Documents.
Diermnneas ------> anaferetai se Speech (real time conversations).
Kai pali den eimai sigouros, alla autn eivai n entupwsn pou exw
sxnmatisei.
Peri -tns kai -as:
Basileuw ----> Basileu ------> Basileas -------> Basialias.
Eisaggelw -----> Eisaggeleu ------> Eisaggeleas.
Politeia -----> Politns ------> Politauomai -------> Politeuths.
Apo oti mporw na anakalesw (ftwxes gramatikes gnwseis) ta se -tns
bgainoun apo tnv paqntikn metoxn tou Evestwta, enw ta se -as bgaivouv
apo tnv Evergntikn. Den eimai omws sigouros gi'auto (mallov lathos eimai).
Peri translator-interpreter-compiler:
This is what I found in Webster's dictionary (hope it helps):
in-ter-pret-er \in-'ter-pret-er, -pet-\ n
(14c)
1: one that interprets; esp: a person who translates orally for
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
parties conversing in different languages
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2a: a machine that prints on punch cards the symbols recorded in them
by perforations
2b: a computer program that translates an instruction into machine
language and executes it before going to the next instruction
com-pil-er \kem-'p[0xF5]^--ler\ n
(14c)
1: one that compiles
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^??
2: a computer program that translates an entire set of instructions
written in a higher-level symbolic language (as COBOL) into machine
language before the instructions can be executed
trans-late \tran(t)s-'la^-t, tranz-\ vb trans-lat-ed; trans-lat-ing
[L translatus (pp. of transferre to transfer, translate), fr. trans-
+ latus, pp. of ferre to carry -- more at TOLERATE, BEAR]
vt
(14c)
1a: to bear, remove, or change from one place, state, form, or appearance
to another: TRANSFER, TRANSFORM <a country boy translated
to the city> <translate ideas into action>
1b: to convey to heaven or to a nontemporal condition without death
1c: to transfer (a bishop) from one see to another
2a: to turn into one's own or another language
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2b: to transfer or turn from one set of symbols into another: TRANSCRIBE
2c (1): to express in different terms and esp. different words: PARAPHRASE
2c (2): to express in more comprehensible terms: EXPLAIN, INTERPRET
3: ENRAPTURE
4: to subject to mathematical translation
5: to subject (as genetic information) to translation in protein synthesis
~ vi
1: to practice translation or make a translation; also: to admit
of or be adaptable to translation <a word that doesn't translate easily>
2: to undergo a translation
3: LEAD, RESULT -- usu. used with into <tax cuts translate
into bigger savings>
-- trans-lat-abil-i-ty \(,)tran(t)s-,la^-t-e-'bil-et-e^-, (,)tranz-\
n
-- trans-lat-able \tran(t)s-'la^-t-e-bel, tranz-\ adj
-- trans-la-tor \-'la^-t-er\ n