Pederasty in Ancient Greece
GAYson Lame-Brew
The role and value of homosexuality in and to classical Mediterranean
culture and society has only recently received significant study.
Modern American society generally regards homosexuality as, at best, an
intriguing subculture that often provides stock for humorists and
satirists, or, at worst, a menacing counterculture that at times
threatens impressionable adolescents with irreparable harm. Yet,
homosexuality has not always been an aspect of "others." Ancient Greeks
acknowledged homosexuality as an important tool in boys' education.
They institutionalized and regulated its practices within their law
codes. True, opinions about it varied, but few aspects of any culture
have ever stood without debate, both popular and forensic. Their
homosexuality, almost universally intergenerational, resembled what
modern societies call pederasty rather than homosexuality between
adults. 1 It was an anomalous experiment in the education of youth.
Fathers of the middle classes and higher sent their sons to schools to
learn mathematics and literacy using the alphabet adopted from
Phoenicians by the middle of the ninth century BC. Students 12 and
older also studied poetry, drama, music, history (after Herodotus [484
- 425 BC] and Thucydides [460 - 400 BC]) and athletics, which they
practiced in the nude. Athletics included wrestling, foot races, the
running long jump, javelin and discus throwing, and performance on
hanging rings and parallel bars. 2 Most boys in general eagerly
trained in athletics in hopes of attaining competitive levels for the
Olympic games. If they could not win or compete in athletics, they may
still have hoped for one of the prizes awarded for physical beauty. 3
At first, students learned athleticism outdoors at a dromos (an outdoor
track for athletic performances). Later, schools and academies (for
"advanced" education in philosophy) built separate buildings, a
gymnasium ("place to be nude"), dedicated to athletics, or a palaistra,
a separate wrestling school. They also constructed viewing stands.
Spectators came to watch not only regular games of competition, but
also the actual training of pubescent youth and adolescents in the
course of their daily education. Because women taught domestic duties
to their daughters at home, viewing stands held only men, gymnasia and
dromoi only nude boys. Schoolmasters cautioned naked students sitting
trackside at dromoi to keep one leg forward to lessen the temptation to
spectators and to smooth the sand when they stood up in order to
obliterate the impression their genitals may have left. Furthermore,
after their lessons in athletics concluded, boys did not wash below
their navels, 4 for spectators also had access to dressing rooms, and
the sight of boys washing their pubic areas would have tormented guests
overbearingly. Continuing in their recognition of the appeal of young
naked boys, gymnasia and palaistrae named one boy their most beautiful.
Ancient Greece had unofficial and unwritten rules enforcing decorous
behavior at dromoi or in gymnasia and especially for relationships that
at times started there, much as modern society has rules for how
teenage sons of socialites must "court and spark" their romantic
interests. 5 Spectators normally came from the leisured moneyed
class, young sons of leading citizens, for the working classes could
scarcely afford the necessary leisure time. Occasionally one of those
young scions of the social elite might take a favor to a particular boy
in training. The young man might approach the boy after classes ended
for the day, or he might send an intermediary to give his name and a
message to the boy.
If the boy initially expressed no interest in meeting and getting to
know the man, then the man could "stalk" the boy, at first discreetly
and silently following him from a respectful distance, gradually
getting closer to him to beg him for favors. Whatever the man did,
though, he must not touch the boy without the boy's invitation or
approval or, at the least, his acquiescence. Touching made the man
liable to hubris, arrogant disregard of the law that led a person to
mistreat another for his own satisfaction or to increase his status
among his peers and betters (those of higher social class than
himself). Hubris was a capital crime, and even the slightest touching
of an unwilling boy opened a man to the charge. Cases of hubris brought
to trial, of course, usually involved far more than slight touching.
On the other hand, if the boy showed an interest in returning the young
man's attention, the two started a friendship. The young man in such
a relationship took the responsibility to teach the boy things that
schools did not teach-moral rectitude, citizenship, patriotism to the
polis, honesty, integrity, courage, etc. The friendship made the boy
the eromenos of the man, who was the erastes (crudely, "lover-boy" and
"boy-lover," respectively) of the boy. Thereafter, they could appear in
public and at social affairs as a pair.
The root "eros" of both words, "erastes" and "eromenos," referred to
love that can have a satisfied resolution. "Lust" comes closer than
"love" to how the ancient Greeks understood eros, neither mutual nor
requited. Carnal knowledge satisfied eros of this kind. Eros also
applied to, for instance, desire for victory, power, money, or
returning home from travels or a sojourn. Philos, on the other hand,
signified intellectual love, as for art or knowledge-philosopher-or
a mutual respect between or among people, as within a close-knit family
or a group of friends. Philos could be mutual and requited. 6 The
love an erastes (plural erastai) felt for his eromenos (plural
eromenoi) usually started as one-sided eros when he first saw the
beautiful, naked boy, but at times, it developed into mutual philos
after the pedagogical process had begun.
After a time of teaching his eromenos, an erastes offered the boy a
gift. Exotic birds and plants were the most popular kinds of gifts, for
they were rare and wondrous, expensive imports from distant foreign
lands like equatorial Africa or India. Like the massive amount of
available leisure time, the expense of the gift prohibited young men
from lower economic classes from pursuing boys in the manner of the
more financially capable. An eromenos might not accept a gift if it
were not sufficiently rare or expensive.
A potential erastes was normally 20 to 30 years old: contemporary
society regarded anyone older than that and still pursuing boys as odd
or eccentric, and censured and ridiculed him, but older men did not
suffer legal threats or consequences. Society expected older men to
turn their amorous efforts to fulfilling their civic duties of siring
children in marriage to young ladies, who were, however, by
contemporary mores, in their middle teens (late teens in Sparta).
Wives, therefore, felt little competition from young boys for their
husband's attention. Nonetheless, older men on occasion continued
their pursuit of young boys. Laws did apply to slaves and non-citizens
of a polis, though, forbidding them to take roles of either erastai or
eromenoi at any age.
If an eromenos accepted a gift, his erastes could initiate sexual
relations with him. Not desiring to engage in sexual relations, then,
provided the eromenos another reason not to accept a gift. Initiating
such a relationship, the erastes commonly started by standing in front
of his eromenos, who was also standing, and lightly used his fingers to
stimulate the genitals of the boy underneath his tunic, which hung to
just above his knees. A little wine could break down the reluctance of
a hesitant boy. If the eromenos were receptive, he may have removed his
tunic once he had become fully aroused, or he may have only pulled up
the lower hem. The erastes had the same options, and then he took a
seat in a chair. The eromenos straddled his lap, facing him. A vial of
oil would already be at hand on a nearby side table. Greeks so strongly
accepted pederasty that sometimes boys would have their own vial of
oil, carrying it on a thong around their neck or at their waist to
advertise their availability to a potential erastes. Moreover, Greek
warriors, necessarily drawn from the social classes that could afford
the expense of their own arms, eagerly sought boy captives as well as
women and girls in the chronic warfare of archaic and classical Greece.
7 Captive boys could scarcely qualify as eromenoi, though, since they
obviously did not come from the citizenry of the captor's polis, but
a soldier's lust often takes precedence over thoughts of
relationships, then as now.
Other than straddling the lap of his erastes, an eromenos might lie
down with him on a couch or sofa. Reclining positions were common at
symposia, elaborate feasts that often featured intellectual
philosophical or political discussions. Only the wealthy could afford
to sponsor or to attend symposia; their eromenoi attended as honored
guests. Erastai enjoyed showing them off or displaying them at such
events. Often the host of a symposium organized the boys into
competitions of singing, dancing, recitation of poetry or some such
similar contest. Additionally, a beauty contest frequently concluded
the evening, all of the boys participating in the nude and
demonstrating how limber or lithe they were or striking poses to show
off their muscular development. Sometimes the host divided the
contestants into age classes, for a younger eromenos could scarcely
compete against older boys in those kinds of events. Almost everywhere,
though, symposia could have additional entertainment of nude dancing
and singing women, who did not, however, dine with the guests.
TRNC(KKTC)
"GAYson Lame-Brew" <GAY...@loaning.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1117197474.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Education and Pederasty in Ancient Greece
>
Watch the "only gay in town" give his comment about this article. The only
thing is he is afraid to tell the truth!
--
--
Ladies and Gentelman, fasten your seatbelts please. We will shortly be
landing in Ercan airport in the newly RECOGNISED Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus. Thank you.
Stephen
"TRNC(KKTC)" <trnc(KKTC)-home-of-Tur...@inCyprus.com> wrote in
message news:d77kro$l3t$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
markt...@yahoo.com
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/pederasty.html
Pederasty
By Vern L. Bullough
Pederasty (or Greek Paederasteia) is the erotic relationship between an
adult male and a boy, generally one between the ages of twelve and
seventeen, in which the older partner is attracted to the younger one
who returns his affection.
Greek Pederasty
Such relationships were widespread in ancient Greece, so much so that
Plato called the relationship the feature that distinguished
Hellenistic civilization from "barbarian" cultures. William Percy, one
of the more recent scholars on the topic, believes the custom was not
institutionalized in Greece until the seventh century B. C. E., when
marriage was either forbidden or strongly discouraged for men before
their thirtieth year.
Sponsor Message.
The term pederasty is a more specific one than pedophilia, since it is
age-controlled (no young children) and excludes females. One of the
purposes the Greeks advanced for such relationships was to teach the
boy how to become a man.
Although there are many references to the custom in both the surviving
Greek and Roman literature, most scholars have been reluctant to
discuss the subject, and few traditional histories of Greek life or
culture by modern writers included a discussion of it until the last
part of the twentieth century. Some individuals, notably the Marquis de
Sade and Friedrich Nietzsche, earlier discussed institutionalized
pederasty in Greece, but their writings on this topic were generally
ignored by scholars.
Many scholars who acknowledge the existence of Greek pederasty are
unwilling to look upon it as involving sexual activity. Some couples
undoubtedly limited their physical contact to the gymnasia--wrestling,
reclining together on couches, but not going beyond kissing and
fondling. Some presumably ejaculated between the thighs or buttocks of
the boys, yet others, perhaps most, penetrated their lover anally. Such
activities appear on vase or other paintings.
Oral genital contact was apparently rare and was much disapproved of in
the few passages that mention it. Greek sources, according to Percy, do
not speak about mutual masturbation or fisting, although the Greeks did
have a word for inserting a finger into the anus.
One of the questions that recent students of Greek culture have not
been able to answer is whether pederasty led to androphilia, that is,
homosexual relations between adults. The evidence is unclear. Both
Brongersma and Eglinton insist on the difference between pederasty and
androphilia. Social constructionists, such as David Halperin, argue
that pederasty did lead to androphilia, while Dover says the evidence
does not unequivocally support such a view.
Outside the Greek Tradition
Pederastic relationships are known outside of the Greek tradition, and
there are many societies in which the principal homosexual love object
for males is the adolescent boy. Such relationships have been known in
Korea, Japan, China, and many of the Islamic countries where contact
between males and females was limited.
Among the Sambia of Papua New Guinea, pederasty is a traditional
practice. In this society, the ingestion of semen via fellatio is
believed essential for a boy's proper masculine development. The boys
are inseminated from about age eight until around age fifteen, then
they become inseminators until they are married, at which time they
cease regular same-sex sexual practices.
Pederasty in the West
In the West, the relationship between the predominantly androphilic
homophile movement and the pederasts has been contentious. Though some
in the American gay community welcomed what they called boy lovers,
most excluded them for political if no other reasons.
In Germany a separate pederastic-oriented movement, the Gemeinschaft
der Eigenen (Community of the Exceptional), was organized at the turn
into the twentieth century and created its own literature. One of the
first writers of note was the anarchist John Henry Mackay who, writing
under the pseudonym of Sagitta, composed a whole series of books in
defense of boy love at the beginning of the twentieth century. Adolf
Brand and Benedict Friedlaender and to a lesser extent Hans Blüher
also wrote about pederastic love in German.
In England and America, in the period from the end of the Victorian era
to the period between the World Wars, a pederastic-oriented poetic
movement developed, now known as the Uranian Poets. These writers
turned to the extensive pederastic literature of the ancient world for
inspiration, but focused on the trials, tribulations, challenges, and
rewards of boy love in a Christian society intolerant of their love.
In the United States, J.Z. Eglinton's Greek Love (1964) defended the
rights of pederasts. Beginning in the 1950s local groups in the
Netherlands and in Scandinavia, West Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland
appeared. From 1987 to 1997 a scholarly journal, Paidika, edited by
Joseph Geraci, was published in the Netherlands. The journal, after
years of harassment, concluded its ten years of publication with a
book-length final edition.
NAMBLA, the North American Man/Boy Love Association was organized in
Boston in 1978. Despite repeated attempts by American authorities to
suppress it, the association continues to publish a Bulletin, carefully
vetted of material that the government might use to attack it.
Conclusion
In Greco-Roman antiquity, the predominant form of same-sex sexual
relationships was pederastic, but in the modern West the predominant
form is androphilic. Hence, the pederast in contemporary times is
definitely a minority within a minority.
Sponsor Message.
Moreover, what was an institutionalized practice in ancient Greece is
frequently seen as a subversive and corrupting activity in the
contemporary West, with the adult partner subject to draconian
penalties for engaging in sexual activities with an underage boy.
The glbtq movement for equality has largely distanced itself from
pederasty, in part because homophobes have often accused homosexuals of
child molestation and "recruitment," but also because there are real
questions about the effects of age-asymetrical sexual relationships on
adolescents.
Although most pederastic relationships are consensual, and often
involve mentoring and support for the youthful partner from the adult,
there is nearly always a power imbalance that makes such relationships
unequal. Many adults who had such relationships in their adolescence
remember them fondly. Not all do.
Vern L. Bullough
markt...@yahoo.com
The Sexual Revolution During 600 B.C. - 400 A.D.
by William A. Percey III
"I obtained this document from a book called Homosexuality in the
Ancient World by Wayne R. Dynes, if I recall correctly. Contained in
the book were photocopy-like reproductions of magazine articles, book
excerpts and the like, in the original languages, sometimes German,
French or English.
This article was reprinted from the Gay Review, 1990. It was
suprisingly badly copied, with many small errors and a couple larger
ones. If you find a serious error, please send me an email about it.
Please go on to heh.ca for more information on this material including
pages on Bernard Faucon, F. Holland Day, and Wilhelm Von Gloeden."
Jason Garrison
_Khl...@heh.ca
Feb 17, 2003
In the Aegean crisis of overpopulation during the mid-seventh century
B.C., Cretan sages evolved a system of interlocking institutions
centered on delayed marriage and pedagogical pederasty to hold down the
birthrate of 'knights' (about 1% or 2% of the total population) so that
their heirs would not overly dubdivide their estates, while improving
the military training of their songs. Each young mounted warrior
ritually kidnapped an aristocratic boy of 12 to love and train.
Thereafter the beloved was dubbed "the renowned one" to distinguish him
from a boy not yet chosen who was called an "obscure one".
This phenomenon (institutionalized pederasty) can now be placed in time
and space.
Cretan knights first institutionalized pederasty, that is, they
ordained a set of recognized legal and social norms governing the
relationship between the erastes (a 20-year-old lover) and eromenos
(his teenaged beloved) and its concomitants: seclusion of women, nudity
of males in gymnasia, 'herds' (agelai) of boys living in gangs in the
wild, postponement of marriage of males until 30, and men's messes held
in 'men's houses' (andreia). The Cretan founders of this system
intended to control population in their narrow valleys which had became
overcrowded in the preceding century and a half because of a seven-fold
increase in population. The situational pederasty, androphilia,
voluntary infanticide, and widespread but not mandatory postponement of
marriage that existed earlier had not sufficed to prevent the breakup
among numerous songs of estates into parcels too small to maintain the
aristocratic if austere lifestyle that necessarily included expensive
mounts.
Although at least a dozen ancient authorities imply a Cretan origin of
these institutions, no modern scholars have heretofore accepted this
explanation for the phenomenon. They assume instead that the numerous
pederastic episodes in the Greek myths were mostly older than 600 B.C.,
perhaps even prehistoric. This assumption confused thatm all about the
place and date of the origin of "Greek love". In fact, beginning about
600 B.C., mythographers, some (like the famous poet Pindar) by their
own admission, inserted pederastic episodes into old fables or added
entirely new pederastic stories about immortals and heros.
It is not to be assumed, as some have, that the Greeks were ever
unfamiliar with pederasty or with any other forms of homosexuality,
but, before Cretan sages (or 'musicians', as the Greeks termed all
those who served the muses) institutionalized pederasty during the late
7th century B.C., it was occasional and incidental. Such practices
have, of course, occurred among all people and even among all mammals
that have been carefully observed, but the Greeks may already have been
especially familiar with them from sitations that had arisen during
their past with had encouraged homosexual emotions and practices
between males. During the Dark Age [1200 B.C.- 800 B.C], nomads who had
left their womenfolk behind while conquering the peninsula and offshore
islands including Crete may wel have raped indigenous boys. It is
unreasonable to assume that knights and squires, sailors and 'merchant
marines', and other all-male groups who, during those centuries and the
ones that followed, did not cohabit with [males -JG] with guarding
dangerous outposts or sailing across or founding colonies along the
whole length of the Mediterranean. In fact they often came into contact
with peoples openly practicing forms of homosexuality such as the
Scythians of Russia, the Celts of Gaul, or the Phoenicians and the
Carthaginians.
Following the Cretan initiative, other Greeks institutionalized
pederasty. Within a generation Spartans had adapted the hoplite systems
for heavy infantry made up of substantial landowners (who constituted
at least 10% of the population). During or just after the great crisis
caused by the revolt of their serfs in the Seconds Messenian War
(635-625 B.C.), Spartans imitated these Cretan institutions designed
for cavalry but adapted them to a wider segment of the population able
to afford the expensive heavy armor (still expensive but cheaper than
war horses) and weaponry of the new-style elite infantryman. The
phalanx evolved about the middle of the 7th century in which each man's
shield protected the exposed right of the man on his right (the huge
'porpax shield'). This military reformation which displaced the even
more costly knights on the mainland required more coordination and male
bonding than heroic calvery charges had.
Spartans who could endure the severe and arguous training (agoge) and
then became tested, proven, and thus solid citizens were called
'Equals'. Spartant custom, written laws being forbidden, had the force
of law, made a pederastic relationship obligator for upper-class males.
A 20-22-year-old 'inspirer' took a 12-year-old 'hearer' to love and
train until the 'inspirer' obligatorily married at 30 a girl of 18; the
'hearer', in turn, became an 'inspirer'.
While debate rages as to specificaly what kind of sex lovers had with
each other, the universality of the obligation in the Spartan hegemony
is not questioned. One theory, based in part on grafitti bragging 'I
buggered So-and-so', holds that, like Melanesians of today, the
inspirer 'inseminated' the hearer in the anus with his sperm, thus
transmitting his valor and his strength through the sperm. A second
explanation, supported by erotic vase paintings showing such positions,
holds that the elder only put his penis between his partner's thighs
and that sexual intercourse was only intercrural, and then only after
lengthly courtships, and that boys were not penetrated. Yet a thurd
theory, expressed as early as the 4th century B.C., alleged that no
sex, beyond carresses and kisses, took place between lovers and
beloveds and that their "Platonic" relationship was akin to that
between father and son or brother and brother. I believe that, while
all three types occurred all across Hellas, they were nonetheless
influenced by individual tastes and local custom, andal intercourse
predominating.
The concatenated institutions, which included athletic nudity,
seclusion of women, common messes for warriors, and segregation of
teen-aged boys in 'herds', bred countless athletic champions and
warriors at Sparta. Though as boys they had been the passive partner of
an active young warrior in a pederastic relationship, these heros were
hardly the worse off for their experience as objects of sexual lust.
Both Cretan and Spartan instituions seemed so primitive and
ritualistic, like those found among pre-literate tribes over much of
the world, that many scholars have assumed that they dated back to the
prehistory of the Dorian tribe -- one of the many subcategories of
Hellenes. More recently some professors have even suggested that the
phenomenon stemmed from "ritualized pederasty" practiced amongst all
Indo-Europeans in their original homeland of the 3rd millenium B.C.
Claims for a pan-Indo-European ritualized pederasty are
unsubstantiable! They ignore the clear and inarguable record in the
ancient Greek sources of this extraordinary sexual revolution at risk
to their academic reputations!
Sparta had become a conservative, xenophobic, intolerant, belligerent
power: its culture austere, its powers of innovation limited by too
much discipline. Luxuries were excised from its culture, all but iron
bars were banned as monetary exchange, permission to travel was very
difficult to obtain. The chief elected authorities had to be at least
60 years old or over! The city-state was operated as and much resembled
an army base. Yet, because of the prestige that the sober,
unimaginative, stolid Spartans gained through voctories in battles and
games, all other advanced poleis ('city-states') of the Greek-speaking
world adapted Spartan institutions, some of them also going directly to
Crete for inspiration.
Much engaged in trade, having contact with so many foreigners, the
Ionians, those Greeks who had settled the western coast of Asia Minor
from the tenth century B.C. onwards, altered Spartant institutions to
fit their own tastes and needs. They complemented rather than displaced
the rigorous physical and arguous character training of Cretans and
Spartans with often beguiling intellectual instruction. Commerce
required sophistication and knowledge not just brute strength and
unflinching loyalty. Reducing Spartan rigidity, they adapted pederastic
pedagogy to intellectual pursuits (paideia) in symposia (literally
'drinking party', one held after dinner) modeled on the Spartan
syssitia or all-male mess. Thus each upper-class boy had a devoted
tutor for intellectual as well as physical and moral training, whom he
loved. This unprecedented pederastic pedagogy on such a wide scale
among literate peoples caused an intellectual breakthrough that has
perhaps never been equalled before or after.
While obligatory, long-term, and perhaps exclusive in Crete and in
Sparta, in Ionia, where tyrants vied with oligarchs for control, the
pederastic relationship was voluntary, often brief, and even
promiscuous. Ionian colonista in Sicily and Magna Graecia (southern
Italy) were often more ostentatious and prone to luxury than even the
Ionians of the homeland. As their intellectual interests broadened,
Ionian physicists and poets, and their colonists in Sicily and southern
Italy (reinforced by poets and philosophers from their mother cities
after the invation of Ionia itself by Persians in 546 B.C.) shifted the
training more to the mind than to the body, to refined symposia from
crude gymnasia, to which ideas even began to permeate. Socrates loved
to regale the boys in gyms' 'undressing rooms' as the Greeks called it.
Ebullient and insouciant, mercantile Ionians preceded Athenians in
stressing intellectual development of their boys at the expense of
physical and moral education.
Developing the arts and sciences as no other people had before, Greeks
created Western civilization by coupling pederasty with pedagogy. Just
after 600 B.C., Solon, who imported pederasty along the nude exercises
and the seclusion of women to Athens from Sparta and Crete, greatly
expanded the sufferage and partially democratized Athen's constitution.
Of course, women, slave, and resident aliens, who made up the greater
part of the population, were always excluded from the vote but he did
give it to all adult male citizens.
Only the rich, however, qualified at first to hold office. Continuing
to democratize their institutions, Athenians became the first literate
people to develop democracy, where, within a few generations, any
citizen, protected through popuilar courts, could hold office, for
which they were eventually selected by lot. Some other Greek states
followed suit after they too had adopted gymnasia, symposia, and the
institutionalized pederasty that came with them. (No state let women
vote before the 19th century, so we should not comdemn the Greeks
particularly on that score; they may have treated women better than any
other ancient society did.)
Although we cannot prove a causal connection, democracy followed
shortly after the institutionalization of pederasty in a number of
Greek cities. Many if not most Greek theorists hailed pederastic
couples as founders, restorers, or protectors of libery (such as the
heroic pederastic Athenian tyrannicides Harmodius and Aristogeiton).
They even associeted pederasty with eunomia ('good government'). As a
2nd-century A.D. litterator pointed out: "For they [Greek scholars]
maintain that this practice is zealously pursued in those cities
throughout Gellas which, as compared with others, are ruled by good
laws." [Atheneus, XIII 601c.] Mythographers, religious writers had by
then justified the new way of life by ascribing pederasty to their
heros and gods. Even Zeus came to have his Ganymede.
Commercial success and immigration, especially of Ionians fleeing the
Persians, made Athens the school of Hellas, the intellectual center of
Greece. Athens became the greatest Hellenic metropolis in 480 B.C. by
defeating the Persians at Salamis. By then, almost every upper-class
Greek boy outside Sparta and Crete (both of which strictly limited
intellectual instruction) had a devoted tutor, whom he in turn loved,
to inspire him mentally as well as morally. As the great Victorian
student of Greek pederasty, John Addington Symonds, declared:
What the Greeks called paiderastia, or boy-love, was a phenomenon of
one of the most brilliant periods of human culture, in one of the most
highly organized and nobly active nations. It is the feature by which
Greek social life is most sharply distinguished from that of any other
people approaching the Hellenes in moral or mental distinction.
As the "school of Hellas", Athens saw the culmination of Greek culture
during the 5th and 4th centuries B.C. As Symonds said:
paiderastia at Athens was closely associated with liberty, manly
sports, severe studies, enthusiasm, self-sacrifice, self-control, and
deeds of daring, by those who cared for such things.
Pederasty, hoever, had its critics. Before the end of the 6th century
B.C., Greek tyrants from time to time closed gymnasia out of fear; and
the Persians, after they had seized Ionia, began to criticize,
suppress, and perhaps to outlaw pederasty in the Greek poleis that they
held. Caliming that man was the measure of all things and that they
could make the better seem worse, 5th-century B.C. sophists, whether
refugees from such persecutors merely drawn to Athens by its wealth and
freedom, its gymnasia and symposia, its devotion to and subsidizing of
culture, undermined the commitment to character training and morality
that stern, patriotic, pederastic masters had demanded. To restore
civic order and personal morality, Socrates and Plato counterattacked,
insisting on absolutes, defending love between males but demanding
limitation if not, as some argue, renunciation of physical contact
between erastoi and eromenoi. No admirer of democracy, even the stern
Plato declated that what differentiated Greek from barbarian was nude
gymnastics, pederasty, and philosophy.
After Philip II of Macedon and his son Alexander III, the Great,
extinguished Greek liberties in the mid-4th century B.C. and created
standing armies of mercenaries, their upper-class subjects, no longer
citizens of independent poleis, did not need political or military
skills so much as before. The poleis did retain local autonomy and
citizen levies fought alongside or revolted against mercenary armies
for almost two centuries, but a new cutlure -- Hellenistic, blending
oriental with pure Greek (Hellenic) culture -- emerged, emphasizing
individuality more than collective citizenship. Cosmopolitan
philosophers henceforth spoke of 'natural law', 'world citizenship',
divine reason, and universal providence more than of the poleis. They
imagined a single law for the oecumene to which all men belong, of
which they are all fellow-citizens.
The boy was to be trained for membership in the oecumene rather than in
the polis: for universal brotherhood or individual escape into
philosophy rather than heroic loyalty in the phalanx and the civic
assembly. Thus pederasty lost some of its original social and
educational raison d'etre. The oecumene blended Greek with Near Eastern
elements in a synthesis. With the homeland no longer burdened by
overpopulation because of casualties of war or plague and immigration
to Asia, some physicians and philosophers criticized not only excesses
by occasionally nonprocreative sex itself -- though none before the
Christians recommended outright chastity. Yet many others and most
Hellenistic poets continued to extol pederastic love. Inhabitants of
the new cities that Alexander the Great and his successors founded in
Asia and Africa and even of those old poleis of the homeland, Greeks of
all classes began to enjoy eunuchs and effeminates, often
cross-dressers, with perfume and powdered cheecks of the Oriental kind
in addition to, or instead of, athletic eromenoi of the Hellenic sort.
Boy prostitutes may have become more numerous than before and some men
may have turned to their own slave boys.
Annexation by Rome did not substantially alter the pederasty practiced
in Greek-speaking areas. There were in many respects fewer differences
for Greeks between the later Hellenistic period and the Early Empire
(the Principate, 30 B.C. - 180 A.D.) than there were between the
flourishing, expensive, innovative early Hellenistic (which so
resembled the 4th-century -- the late classical) and the late
Hellenistic. This is true of pederasty: the first Greeks of the
Hellenistic period who settled in Asia and Africa continued to act like
Greeks. They set up gymnasia, symposia, and theatres wherever they
settled. Beginning, however, with Antiochus IV [175-163 B.C.] and
Ptolemy VIII [170-116 B.C.], their monarchs came more to resemble
Caligula, Nero and Domitian, their merchants more the anti-hero of
Petronius's Satyricon Trimalchio than a proper Greek merchant such as
Cephalus. In exotic Alexandria and Antioch, many lost sense of
proportion, of measure, and of good taste and came to resemble
barbarians rather than the classical ideal. Orgics or one-night stands
replaced mannered courtships, eunuch eromenoi, tyrant heros. But some
correct young men and boys everywhere did continue decorous
relationships. Intellectuals and artists as well as emporors like
Augustus, Hardrian, Septimus Severus, and Juslian the Apostate fought
brillian rear-guard actions against further intellectual, spiritual,
and cultural decline.
If the Pax Romana restored order and prosperity to the Greek provinces,
it could not restore the honor and pride that had been lost with
liberty. Orations no longer rang with freedom, philosophy and with
praise of liberty, art and poetry with such great originality.
Preservation and imitation characterized Greek culture under Roman
domination. The growth of population and prosperity, which did not
extend to every region, failed to reinvigorate the culture or to
re-inspire boy-love, which thus lost the capacity to provide itself
with heroic citizens. But the old institutions continued, though less
inspired, until the disasters of the 3rd century A.D. -- plagues,
famines, and wars -- destroyed the calssical synthesis. There were
never again enough people or money.
The collapse of the system in the 3rd centuryt A.D., which weakened
upper-class pederastic institutions, led to the triumph of Christianity
in the 4th Century A.D. The new despotic Christian Empire decreed death
for sodomites in 342 A.D., effectively suppressing the remnants of the
millenium-old pederastic system. The Christians in fact also destroyed
the classical synthesis that had endured for a millenium. They
organized a new oecumene, radically different both socially and
sexually. The Christian takeover of the still far-flung Roman Empire in
312 A.D. began the greatest change of sexuality and many other
subdivisions of history since the sages had institutionalized pederasty
as the basis for classical civilization and its concomitants one
thousand years earlier. The main change the Christians brought was in
sexuality. The Germans who eliminated the last Western emperor in the
5th Century A.D. did not, perhaps, make as dcisive a change as the
Christians had, and, in the East, which survived the German oinslaught,
the reign of Justinian (527-565 A.D.) marked a greater watershed than
the deposition by Germans of the last Roman Emperor of the West,
Romulus Agustulus, had in 476 A.D.
The coup de grâce for the noble institution of pederasty came with the
Justinian Code which said that God would punish a society that
tolerated Sodomites with earthquakes, famines, and pestilences.
-- Professor Percy, PhD (Princeton), is co-author of Age of Recovery:
Europe During the 15th Century (Cornell U., 1972); Associate Co-Editor
of the Encyclopedia of Homosexuality (Garland Publications, 1990);
Chair, Committee for Lesbian and Gay History, American Historical
Assocciation (1989-); author of numerous articles in medieval taxation,
Greek pederasty, gays in the Holocaust, and introductory college texts.
His forthcoming book is The Origins and Spread of Greek Pederasty is
the first in a series of three projected works on Greek and Roman
sexuality. He presently teaches at the University of Massachusetts,
Boston.
Sean's #1Bitchslapper
crazy
turk"Rivers has been sentenced to probation and six months in jail for
double-swiping the credit cards of customers who irritated him.
Mark Rivers pleaded guilty to one count of credit card fraud, a
third-degree
felony. He was accused of doubled-swiping cards at the Midvale Taco
Bell
where he worked five times, putting in different amounts on the second
swipe
between $20 and $30.
Third District Judge Glenn Iwasaki ordered a psychological evaluation
and
$142.22 restitution, and barred Rivers from employment involving
financial
transactions.
Rivers faced five felony counts of unlawful use of a credit card and
single
misdemeanor counts of theft and obstruction of justice - and
allegedly
called police pretending to be a Taco Bell executive claiming to have
solved
the case.
It's unclear where the money from the double-swiping went. Rivers told
police he didn't pocket it, but police said the cash didn't show up at
the
restaurant.
markt...@yahoo.com
http://w5.usc.edu:9673/review/iglr/review.html?rec_id=640
Edited by Walter L. Williams, University of Southern California
Pederasty and Pedagogy in Archaic Greece
by William Armstrong Percy, III
Nonfiction
Publisher: Chicago, IL: University of Illinois
Date: 1996
Notes: 260 pages, illustrations, notes, bibliography, index
1998 REVIEW BY: Mark Anthony Masterson
Mark Anthony Masterson is Ph.D. student in Classics at the University
of Southern California. He is doing research on the construction of
masculinity and sexuality in the fourth century CE Roman Empire. He
also is a member of Gay, Lesbian and Straight Educators' Network.
Since Kenneth Dover published his ground breaking GREEK HOMOSEXUALITY
In 1978, scholars such as David Halperin, the late John Winkler, and
others, have been busy exploring the previously all but unmentionable
topic of ancient Greek homosexuality. What has been brought to light
in, at long last, explicit detail, is the way in which same-sex love
was pursued among the Greeks. Greek male-male sexual expression did not
have the equality that characterizes much of modern Western
homosexuality. Homosexual relations were between a young man (aged
approximately 20-25) and a boy (aged approximately 12-18). They were
completely legal and quite common. The relation between the two was one
in which the older pursued the younger and the younger was the passive
partner in anal or interfemural (between the thighs) sex. The younger
partner was supposed to be rather indifferent to the sex--to submit was
his obligation. The older partner was to mentor and teach the younger.
With the arrival of his heavy beard and pubic hair (at age 18 or so),
the younger partner, if he were so inclined, then found a boy to mentor
and find sexual satisfaction from. Marriage occurred around the
thirtieth birthday. Pederasty appears to have been a way for the young
men to find sexual release in a culture that severely curtailed access
to women and also a way to socialize and educate boys.
In PEDERASTY AND PEDAGOGY IN ARCHAIC GREECE, Percy (a professor of
History at the University of Massachusetts) is interested primarily in
the socializing and educative function of these relationships. This is
not a book about sex, as his title indicates. He is concerned with
placing pederasty in the context of Greek society. Indeed, Percy states
that he regards his book as a supplement to Dover's GREEK
HOMOSEXUALITY, in that it is concerned with the context and use of
pederasty as opposed to the mechanics of it. It also is not a book
about sexuality. The debate about essentialism and social
constructionism, which plays such a part in the writings of Halperin,
Boswell, Foucault, and others, is not present here. For Percy,
pederasty is a practice that is embedded in a society. He does not
speculate on what this sexuality may mean (or not mean) in terms of
identity.
The book takes the reader all around the Greek world, which included,
besides Greece, Southern Italy and Asia Minor. The time frame is the
Archaic period--from the very beginning of the time where there seem to
be Greeks (1500 BCE or so) up to 500 BCE. This means that he stops just
short of the time during which Athens was dominant, the "classical"
period. (The book is doubly welcome on the basis of temporal scope
alone; Dover's, Halperin's and Winkler's works focus on the "classical"
period.)
In addition to describing the various local differences in the pursuit
of pederasty, Percy also forwards the thesis that pederasty became
institutionalized at a rather late date (in the late 600's) and that it
diffused from Crete to the rest of Greek world. He does not see any
continuity between Greek pederasty and the hypothetical forms
homosexual activity might have taken among the much earlier Greeks or
the Indo-Europeans. He attributes the growth of pederasty both to
population pressures which necessitated a later date for marriage and
to the all-male groups that were created by the enforced separation of
the sexes during a male's time of intense sexual feelings. He also
asserts that much of what we admire about Greek cultural
accomplishments comes from the educating and affectional bonds that
were established between men through pederastic relationships.
A weakness in the book stems from the frequent invisibility of the
lower classes. Greek pederasty seems to have been primarily an upper
class activity. If one of the reasons that it arose was to control
population, it is not clear how the lower classes would have had their
population controlled if they were not engaging in it also. It is
legitimate to ask how a poor subsistence farmer in Crete could afford
to disappear with his boy for a two month long "honeymoon". What the
diffusion of pederasty was to the lower classes we will probably never
know, but the limits of what we can tell from the evidence about all of
Greek society, upper and lower class, could have been more clearly
articulated. I also wonder about his assertion that institutionalized
pederasty spread from Crete in the space of about fifty years.
There is, however, much to praise about this book. Percy has provided a
description of the institution of Greek pederasty that is needed. The
scholarly writing up to now has mostly been for specialists. Percy's
book, in contrast, speaks to a wider audience without condescension.
This book can be used profitably by sociologists, anthropologists, and
scholars interested in the history of sexuality. It could also be used
as a text in a gay studies course. Particularly good are the sections
on sources that he includes in each chapter. Percy talks about what the
evidence is and where it can be found. Those who are interested can
look the material up and form their own opinions if they so wish. All
in all, this is a worthwhile book that describes the place pederasty
had in the archaic Greek world and its probable contours as an
institution.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004 COMMENT BY: Richard Dey
The Gay Review, Editor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M. A. Masterson's caveat on 'Percy's Pederasty and Pedagogy in Archaic
Greece' that pederasty amongst the lower-classes was not covered
assumes that it was practiced. The very 'pedagogic pederasty' that
Percy describes (so well) was elite -- a measure to maintain a small
ruling class over an increasing population.
Was this a good thing or a bad thing?
Heterosexual geodemography dictates that, as populations grow, land
division increases; ultimately, the heterosexual population will
implode -- long before farms are reduced to postage stamps). It's
called starvation. Another form is like the the Huns -- facing
starvation, a population explodes and invades.
Through pederasty, Greek homosexuals saved an exploding archaic Greece
(colonizing from the 8th century onwards) from its own heterosexual
excesses.
SPARTA
Lycurgus introduced the pederastic system into Sparta specifically to
control population levels amongst its ruling class; the system also
allowed the Spartan ruling class to hunt the lower classes (the
'helots'), maintaining a bit gruesomely a viable balance of rulers and
slaves (until skewered by their own swordplay by Thebes).
ATHENS
At Athens, Solon introduced the system quite differently. Where
Lycurgian Sparta developed a military owner-rulership, at Athens the
pederastic system became pedagogical in a philosophical and scientific
way. On this the future of western civilization was founded, and Athens
became the very foundation stone of modern civilization.
As Matthew Arnold (Culture and Anarchy, 1869 I think) would argue,
western civilization became a contention between (homophobic) Jerusalem
and (homophilic) Athens. Homosexuals with any sense defend Athens.
THEBES
Thebes too introduced pederasty, going somewhere betwixt Athens and
Sparta; and it is to the Lion at Chaeronea that gay men today are drawn
to seek inspiration on how to maintain this homophilic revolution.
The brute fact of the history that gay Greeks invented is, as Carlyle
notes, the events of individuals -- not of 'classes', not even a 'gay
male ruling class'. Classes don't have ideas, the 'atom' of cognition;
the masses never had an idea in their lemming-like lives -- and it took
some courage for Hans Christian Andersen to stand up and say so (either
the Emperor didn't have any clothes on or the parade goers were
overdressed for the occasion).
Ideas come from individuals. The pederastic system of classical Greece
allowed for the first time a large percentage of individuals in
proportion to a population. This was their noblest idea -- and it is
sheer ingratitude not to give them credit for this basic unit of
civilization. As the Egyptologist Brested wondered, who was the first
individual in history -- Akhenaten? King David? Solon? It doesn't
matter; he was a gay man.
The gay Greeks also invented 'journalism', notably Thucydides; today,
at least, 15 minutes of front-page fame allows a few individuals
outside the ruling classes to make a 'difference'. This gay idea
(allowing the creation of athletic and intellectual heroes) and
democracy, a perhaps foolish gay idea, allow for the extension of the
heterosexually inherited ruling class to include those outside it.
Foolish ideas or no, they are gay and here to stay.
Percy has done an excellent job in pinpointing and isolating a specific
known idea, identifies the individual who had it, and hardly has time
in a single volume to discuss all its implications. The idea sparked a
revolution which has not come to a stop yet. Managing to that in one
book is a feat of specificity that ipso fact excludes whatever The
Masses think.
What Masterson might consider is that the Greeks demonstrated that what
one individual thinks with one idea in one moment may be more
beneficial to mankind that what the rest of mankind thinks en masse.
Richard Dey
Sean's #1Bitchslapper
blurring
fantasy and reality. I know the difference. Conspiracy theory is a
fun and
harmless hobby which leads to inspiration for more serious pursuits
like
writing fiction. I clearly draw the line between fantasy and reality.
However, I seriously question whether the "skeptic" kooks are even
aware
that such a line exists.
Whether they're really crazy, or just paranoid, I can't say for sure.
Turkish Retard of Northern Cyprus'before going in the oven
boy he looks like a fat little turkeyburger to be hahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha he looks scared
don't he mamamamamamamamamamamama
,+*^^*+___+++_
,*^^^^ )
_+* ^**+_
_+^^*+_ ( ,+*^ ^ \+_ )
{ ) ( ,( ,_+--+--, ^) ^\
{ (@) } f ,( ,+-^ __*_*_ ^^\_ ^\ )
{:;-/ (_+*-+^^^^^+*+*<_ _++_)_ ) ) /
( / ( ( ,___ ^*+_+* ) < < \
U _/ ) *--< ) ^\-----++__) ) ) )
( ) _(^)^^)) ) )\^^^^^))^*+/ / /
( / (_))_^)) ) ) ))^^^^^))^^^)__/ +^^
( ,/ (^))^)) ) ) ))^^^^^^^))^^) _)
*+__+* (_))^) ) ) ))^^^^^^))^^^^^)____*^
\ \_)^)_)) ))^^^^^^^^^^))^^^^)
(_ ^\__^^^^^^^^^^^^))^^^^^^^)
^\___ ^\__^^^^^^))^^^^^^^^)\\
^^^^^\uuu/^^\uuu/^^^^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\
___) >____) >___ ^\_\_\_\_\_\_\)
^^^//\\_^^//\\_^ ^(\_\_\_\)
^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^
gogu
news:s2mme.671$jU5.9...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Was this a comment about me? I'm hardly afraid.
Nope, you are just an IDIOT TROLL ;-)
PWN !
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html
Stephen
"gogu" <gola...@MUIEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d7dbn6$370$1...@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
> ?"Stephen" <stephen...@nyc.rr.com> έγραψε στ?μήνυμα
gogu
> Yes name calling really 'PWNs' me.
Good.
Now it's settled: you *ARE* a TROLL ;-)
Get lost.
GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2
GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2
GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2
I'm so pleased that you are my Number one SLAPPER !
Mbouhahahahahahahahahar
gogu
?????? news:1117405338.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
LOL
Look who's talking ;-)
The arch-TROLL with the thousand screen names ;-)
-------------------
"Yiorgos Spodbwoy Chicken George Tsolakis" tsol...@loaning.co.uk
"Argyros *COCKNEY GREEKCYPRIOT* Argyrou of Northampton" pi...@easy.com
"Seanie The Grik-Slapper !" pi...@easy.com
"Seanie The Grikslapper" sea...@gmail.com
"Big Butch Floppie Bwoy" flopp...@loaning.co.uk
"GOGULE KING OF TROLLS" gogu.costica.gh...@loaning.co.uk
gogu.costica.gh...@loaning.co.uk
"Romaneshti wannabe GREEK !!!!!" pi...@easy.com
"Constantin Gogu Melina Brincoveanu" <sea...@gmail.com>
"Seanie O'Kilfoyle" sea...@gmail.com
"Yavrukurt" sea...@gmail.com
"I am Seanie" <seanki...@aol.comSPODOFF>
"Mr. S J Ruttledge esq" <seanki...@aol.comUNIST>
"Tom Hoorah of Bath Esq !" <tros...@loaning.co.uk>
"GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2" <GAY...@loaning.co.uk>
----------------
As for who the BARBARIAN is, here:
--------------
"Seanie The Grikslapper" <sea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112996524.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Your daughter will die during childbirth
The Lord our God is a vengeful God, he sees all and wreaks his divine
revenge on vile beasts like you
Vile Beasts are NEVER permitted to multiply, for the darkness is always
overcome by the light
REPENT VILE SINNER !
-----------------
As for the who the RACIST is, here:
---------
? "GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 3/4" <GAY...@loaning.co.uk> ?????? ???
?????? news:1117301087.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
*ROTFFLOLAY*
"hellenes"
Even the very word makes me split my sides with laughter, what a
totally DELUDED nation of F@ckwits !
Mbouhahahahahahahahahahhar
--------------
? "GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 3/4" <GAY...@loaning.co.uk> ?????? ???
?????? news:1117300167.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It doesn't exist, like much of "Greek" history is was made up by
present day Gypo balkanian mongrels
---------------
? "Tom Hoorah of Bath Esq !" <tros...@loaning.co.uk> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1116119363....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Oy Fagash
Why the faggot language ?
Speakie da Eeeeengleeeesh or fackie offie you dolt
---------------
? "Seanie The Grikslapper" <sea...@gmail.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1115230170.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
*ROTFFLMFAOAYAPMFP*
Your nation is weak, your numbers are small, DON'T stir up the hornets
nest if you're gonna cry like a baby when stung
Mbouhahahahahahahahahahahahaharharharharharhar
-----------------
? "Argyros *COCKNEY GREEKCYPRIOT* Argyrou of Northampton" <pi...@easy.com>
?????? ??? ??????
news:1114883686.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Italy, Greece, and Japan have the lowest rate of rape CONVICTIONS in
the World, Greece has also the Highest incidence of REPORTED RAPES,
these include homosexual and drug / date rapes
Female Tourists take note, if you are RAPED by a Greek in Greece he
probably won't ever be convicted !!!
----------------
? "Seanie The Grikslapper" <sea...@gmail.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1114813435.3...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Stupid Greeks ! the real easter was weeks ago
*LMFAOAY* You idiotic griks are BEHIND in EVERYTHING aren't you
----------------
? "Big Butch Floppie Bwoy" <flopp...@loaning.co.uk> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1114796270....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Griks simply cannot drive
They do not have the emotional stability required to safely pilot
complex machinery
Grease has the worst road deaths tally in Europe
DO NOT GO TO GREECE
-------------------
? "Big Butch Floppie Bwoy" <flopp...@loaning.co.uk> ?????? ??? ??????
news:1114796037....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Results 1 - 10 of about 258,000 for sex slave greece
Crikey O'Reilly
There are an estimated THIRTY THOUSAND sex slaves in Athens alone !
BASTARD SAVAGES !!!
---------------------
I rest my case.
Extreme PWNage !
Seanie The Grikslapper
Heh !
less than two minutes and you JUMP for your MASTER like a good little
Pavlovian puppy
*ROTFFLOL*
SIT dog !
DOWN you little gay mingy mutt, HEEL !
Mwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahr
Alistair_Sim
<markt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117394441.7...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tom Pires
23 APRIL IN TURKEY: THE FESTIVAL OF CHILD KILLERS
by Garbis Altýnoðlu
"To give a graphic description of the approach of Turkish fascists to
children, we'll dwell on the murder of two infant sisters, Dilan and
Berivan Bayram on 8 August 1996. This incident by itself should be
sufficient to expose the bestial, bloodthirsty and inhuman character of
Turkish fascism. On that fateful day, Turkish fascists killed Dilan and
Berivan, aged 1.5 and 3, together with their father (Ömer Bayram) and
another person during an operation in Küchükdikili town of Adana
province. A police officer too lost his life at the incident. The
police operation began with the detention of Ridvan Altun, who was a
relative of Ömer Bayram. Mr. Altun was forced under torture to take
the uniformed killers to Mr. Bayram's house. At the time of the
incident, Abdurrahman Sari, a friend of Mr. Bayram, as well happened to
be present there.
"The small army of the police of the fascist regime surrounded the
house at Chinarli district of Küchükdikili town with about twenty
cars and two armored cars at midnight and started to pour fire on it at
04:20, without any warning whatsoever. During the shootout, between
Abdurrahman Sari and the aggressors, Mr. Sari and a police officer lost
their lives. Upon the death of the police officer, Ridvan Altun was
also summarily shot and executed. After they took the two dead bodies
to hospital, the police returned and began firing upon Ömer Bayram,
Yeter Kaplan, the wife of Mr. Bayram, and their children. Dilan and
Berivan were murdered. Yeter Kaplan survived the massacre, despite the
fact that her body was riddled with seven bullets, she was heavily
wounded and lost an eye. Autopsy reports later acquired by lawyers
showed that Dilan and Berivan had received bullets to their heads and
lungs which led to their immediate deaths and Ridvan Altun, who had
already been in custody of the police was executed by a single shot
through his head. By a stroke of luck, Gökhan Bayram, the male child
of the house, survived the attack without a scratch.
"Yeter Kaplan was arrested and spent 40 days at the prisoners' section
of a hospital, where she was subjected to only a cursory examination
and treatment. No other sick woman prisoner was allowed to stay in the
same room with her. She was all alone during that time. Since her
wounds were fresh and she could not even stand up, she could not go to
toilet and do her cleaning. So, she was compelled to seat and sleep
amid her excrements for several weeks. Later she was put on a prison
van with a stretcher and taken to Konya Prison. There, other women
prisoners helped her to do her cleaning etc. And by time she felt
herself somewhat better and could stand up and walk, though with
difficulty. After she was released from prison, she was interviewed by
(daily) Özgür Politika. Among other things she said the following
over the death of Dilan and Berivan:
" 'After the sound of guns died down, I looked at Heval Ömer, who was
near to me at the kitchen... He was sitting just across the window. A
member of Special Teams came near the window. He took aim with his
weapon and shot Ömer through his chest. Heval Ömer fell with that
single shot, just where he stood. I was holding my two children, Dilan
and Berivan in my lap. Then the police started to fire indiscriminately
at us. I fell backwards. My children hadn't made a sound. When I tried
to draw them towards me, I saw that they were martyred. I had a black
pants on me; parts of the smashed brains of Dilan and Berivan were
stuck to my pants...
" 'I hadn't fainted yet. Gökhan, my surviving son had begun to cry and
shout: 'You killed my mom and dad.' They frightened the child and said:
'We didn't kill your mom and dad. The terrorists did.' After they fired
a volley on us, they began to clap. They were shouting with joy. Then I
fainted.' (Özgür Politika, 28 February 1997)
"What is more, at its session held on 28 January 1997, Adana Second
High Criminal Court acquitted the 23 policemen involved in the killing
of Dilan and Berivan Bayram, Ömer Bayram, Abdurrahman Sari and Ridvan
Altun and the wounding of Yeter Kaplan. Thus, the court approved of the
stand of the public prosecutor, who all along had maintained that the
policemen had acted in self-defense!" (Garbis Altinoglu, Portrait of A
Terrorist State)
Ilgaz Ocal
>
>
> 23 APRIL IN TURKEY: THE FESTIVAL OF CHILD KILLERS
>
> by Garbis Altınoğlu
>
> "To give a graphic description of the approach of Turkish fascists to
> ;
PKK sympatisers having manners using "children" as even a word disgusts me
Link: (NOT SAFE FOR ANYTHING!) http://www.turkishforum.com/pkk/pictures.html
Ilgaz
Tom Pires
Ilgaz Ocal wrote:
> PKK sympatisers having manners using "children" as even a word disgusts me
>
> Link: (NOT SAFE FOR ANYTHING!) http://www.turkishforum.com/pkk/pictures.html
>
> Ilgaz
a typical response from a typical nationalist turk....
vatandas
"Tom Pires" <tper...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117451271....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yeeeees. Yes.
You are so clever.
I like it.
Seanie The Grikslapper
He's a regular Grik GENIUS innit !
*LOL*
Ilgaz Ocal
I am not so typical, let me warn.
Ilgaz
TRNC(KKTC)
"Stephen" <stephen...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:s2mme.671$jU5.9...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Was this a comment about me? I'm hardly afraid.
Wyy do you feel that my comment was directed at you? Are you the "only gay
in town"?
BTW kid, top posting is hardly a good netiquette. I would have thought that
a kid of 16 years old who has "seen a lot" would have known that!
TRNC(KKTC)
> Yes name calling really 'PWNs' me.
Wellcome to Greek Culture newsgroup, kid. Won't be long before you are
turned in to a Turk and called Seanie or JJ or TRNC. Here you will learn all
about greek Culture, the hard way.
TRNC(KKTC)
"GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2" <GAY...@loaning.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1117405290....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> OUCH !
>
> Nazi Gogu is on sparkling form today isn't he ?
>
> *ROTFFLMFAOAY*
>
Yep, in a Greek Culture forum! LOLOLOL
--
Ladies and Gentelman, fasten your seatbelts please. We will shortly be
landing in Ercan airport in the newly RECOGNISED Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus. Thank you.
TRNC(KKTC)
>
>
> I'm so pleased that you are my Number one SLAPPER !
>
Ahhhhhh...a real life #1 head slapper. LOLOLOLOL
--
Ladies and Gentelman, fasten your seatbelts please. We will shortly be
landing in Ercan airport in the newly RECOGNISED Turkish Republic of
Northern Cyprus. Thank you.
> Mbouhahahahahahahahahar
>
TRNC(KKTC)
"vatandas" <vatandas@google_mail> wrote in message
news:429b0...@x-privat.org...
Hey vatandas, don't say that, he'll believe you. LOLOL
TRNC(KKTC)
>
>
> He's a regular Grik GENIUS innit !
>
> *LOL*
>
Yeah, a regular NERD. LOLOLOL
TRNC(KKTC)
"Tom Pires" <tper...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117451271....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
a typical response from a typical nationalist racist Greek.
Tom Pires
TRNC(KKTC) (KKTC) wrote:
> > a typical response from a typical nationalist turk....
> >
>
> a typical response from a typical nationalist racist Greek.
as much as you'd like to drag me into your realm
of hatred and ignorant racism, you can't. you
and your mental midget cohort, seanie, have carried
out a slur campaign against greeks/greece for some
time. i am merely giving you a taste of your own
medicine. the problem for you lifeless drones, however,
lies in the fact that there exists an abundance of material
shedding light on the corruption plaguing every facet
of turkish government. will you find hr abuses in greece,
of course you will. do you really want to compare them
with turkey's dismal record? let's please!
GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2
Yes, lets
And lets also use the grik trick of looking at it PER CAPITA as
mikro-skopik grease is a mere one 7th of Turkey
Rikos Apostolou
GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2 wrote: my mama's so fat, she wakes up
in sections..
Using GAY as your ID is evidence that you suffer from sublimated anal
tendencies
and unconscious homosexual identification, compounded with latent
neurotic guilt .
GAYson Lame-Brew Aged 98 and 1/2
As oposed to GAYson Lambrous "Given Name"
*LMFAOAY*
TRNC(KKTC)
>
>
> TRNC(KKTC) (KKTC) wrote:
> > > a typical response from a typical nationalist turk....
> > >
> >
> > a typical response from a typical nationalist racist Greek.
>
>
> as much as you'd like to drag me into your realm
> of hatred and ignorant racism, you can't.
There's no need to drag you into anything, you are already in it. You proved
that with the racist "joke" you posted. Stop trying to deny your racism you
denialist.
>you
> and your mental midget cohort, seanie, have carried
> out a slur campaign against greeks/greece for some
> time. i am merely giving you a taste of your own
> medicine. the problem for you lifeless drones, however,
> lies in the fact that there exists an abundance of material
> shedding light on the corruption plaguing every facet
> of turkish government. will you find hr abuses in greece,
> of course you will. do you really want to compare them
> with turkey's dismal record? let's please!
>
Be my guest.
--
Ladies and Gentlemen, fasten your seatbelts please. We will shortly be
TRNC(KKTC)
>
>
> As oposed to GAYson Lambrous "Given Name"
>
> *LMFAOAY*
>
heheheheheh...I still can't stop laughing over that name...LOLOLOL "GAYson".
MWHAHAHAHA
--
Ladies and Gentlemen, fasten your seatbelts please. We will shortly be
Jeremiah Jones
pull mah gat!
Rikos Apostolou
>As oposed to GAYson Lambrous "Given Name"
>
>*LMFAOAY*
>
>
>
Sure GAYsean hanoum hamur Argiri Cocknail,Butch Dike
GAYsean are you proud of your sexual orientation?
After all only faggot Turks will use GAY as an ID
mbouhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Yiorgos Spodbwoy Chicken George Tsolakis
D Y K E GAYson
That's how to spell DYKE
Give me a shout for further help you may need spelling 4 letter words
bwoy !
*LMFAOAY*
Constantin Nicolae Brincoveanu The GREEK !
Constantin Nicolae Brincoveanu The GREEK !
Do you wanna thick ear GAYson ?
Hmmmmmmmmm ?
Constantin Nicolae Brincoveanu The GREEK !
Typical Greek BLEATING from a Typically clueless YankoGrik PIG
Tom Pires
TRNC(KKTC) (KKTC) wrote:
> > as much as you'd like to drag me into your realm
> > of hatred and ignorant racism, you can't.
>
> There's no need to drag you into anything, you are already in it. You proved
> that with the racist "joke" you posted. Stop trying to deny your racism you
> denialist.
the joke was "racist" was it? funny, i thought racism meant
the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically
superior to members of other races. you got all that from
the joke i posted? tell me jj, how do you seperate the men
from the boys in the greek navy? with a crowbar. i guess,
according to your argument, i'm racist against my own people
since i posted a joke... carry on jj, carry on.
Tom Pires
Constantin Nicolae Brincoveanu The GREEK ! wrote:
> Typical Greek BLEATING from a Typically clueless YankoGrik PIG
your mom what?
Seanie O'Kilfoyle
Your own people ar Ameriicans Mr Penies
Now that you've told the Anti-Hellene *LMFAOA* Greek navy crowbar RACIST
filthy NAZI joke no true HELLENE *LOL* will ever want to do more than SPIT
IN YOUR FAT YANKEE FACE
Mbouhahahahahahahahhahahahahaharrr
EEEEmpeeeerialeeeest PEEEEEG !
--
"Your nostalgia has created
A nonexistent country, with laws
Alien to earth and man. "
George Seferis, "The Return of the Exile" (Keeley and Sherrard, 1981,
pp224-25)
Panta Rhei
> On 9 Jun 2005 03:33:20 -0700, Tom Pires <tper...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> TRNC(KKTC) (KKTC) wrote:
>>> > as much as you'd like to drag me into your realm
>>> > of hatred and ignorant racism, you can't.
>>>
>>> There's no need to drag you into anything, you are already in it. You
>>> proved
>>> that with the racist "joke" you posted. Stop trying to deny your racism
>>> you
>>> denialist.
>>
>>
>> the joke was "racist" was it? funny, i thought racism meant
>> the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically
>> superior to members of other races. you got all that from
>> the joke i posted? tell me jj, how do you seperate the men
>> from the boys in the greek navy? with a crowbar. i guess,
>> according to your argument, i'm racist against my own people
>> since i posted a joke... carry on jj, carry on.
>>
>
> Your own people ar Ameriicans Mr Penies
>
> Now that you've told the Anti-Hellene *LMFAOA* Greek navy crowbar RACIST
> filthy NAZI joke no true HELLENE *LOL* will ever want to do more than SPIT
> IN YOUR FAT YANKEE FACE
>
> Mbouhahahahahahahahhahahahahaharrr
>
> EEEEmpeeeerialeeeest PEEEEEG !
"If proof were needed of Seanie's idiocy then here he has supplied it
himself."
Remarkably many people call you an idiot, Beanie! LOL
--
Living the life of a ridiculed, bitchslapped loony on usenet helps Beanie
Tinfoil forget the failures in his life.
Tom Pires
Seanie O'Kilfoyle wrote:
> Your own people ar Ameriicans Mr Penies
whatever the case may be, at least my "people" walk upright.
your knuckle-dragging kin has yet to even develop thumbs....
> Now that you've told the Anti-Hellene *LMFAOA* Greek navy crowbar RACIST
> filthy NAZI joke no true HELLENE *LOL* will ever want to do more than SPIT
> IN YOUR FAT YANKEE FACE
"yankee"? 229 years since the "great" empire fell to a bunch
of colonialists and you limes still whine about it.... face
facts chappy: your govt is bush's bi*ch and the pride of england
was recently purchased by an american... uncle sam is yo daddy!
Tom Pires
Seanie O'Kilfoyle wrote:
> Your own people ar Ameriicans Mr Penies
whatever the case may be, at least my "people" walk upright.
your knuckle-dragging kin has yet to even develop thumbs....
> Now that you've told the Anti-Hellene *LMFAOA* Greek navy crowbar RACIST
> filthy NAZI joke no true HELLENE *LOL* will ever want to do more than SPIT
> IN YOUR FAT YANKEE FACE
"yankee"? 229 years since the "great" empire fell to a bunch
Tom Pires
Seanie O'Kilfoyle wrote:
> Your own people ar Ameriicans Mr Penies
whatever the case may be, at least my "people" walk upright.
your knuckle-dragging kin has yet to even develop thumbs....
> Now that you've told the Anti-Hellene *LMFAOA* Greek navy crowbar RACIST
> filthy NAZI joke no true HELLENE *LOL* will ever want to do more than SPIT
> IN YOUR FAT YANKEE FACE
"yankee"? 229 years since the "great" empire fell to a bunch
Pants Awry
*ROTFFLMFAOAY*
It's official !
Mr Penies tells anti-hellene *LOLOL* jokes about Gay greek sailors and
talks like a trailer trash YANK !
Yet another NON GREEK that loves to breed in the "Greek Culture"
newsgroup
BTW, he called me a "Lime" !
*ROTFFLMFAO*
I PWN U Penies !
Pants Awry
Wash your FILTHY ears out FATSO !
Mbouhahahahahahhahahahhahaaaar
Tom Pires
Pants Awry wrote:
> *ROTFFLMFAOAY*
>
> It's official !
yes, you're an idiot.
> Mr Penies tells anti-hellene *LOLOL* jokes about Gay greek sailors and
> talks like a trailer trash YANK !
what a coincidence. you get bent by greek sailors and live
in a trailer!!
> Yet another NON GREEK that loves to breed in the "Greek Culture"
> newsgroup
hmm. you're not greek and you don't speak greek, yet you post
to s.c.greek around the clock....were you referring to yourself?
Pants Awry
How dare you insult a HELLENE
I am a greek
I do speak grik you fat Amerikanki Kariolis MALAKA !
SKATA NA FAS AMERIKANIKI !
Mbouhahahahahahahhahahahahahaaar
*LMFAOAY*
Tom Pires
Pants Awry wrote:
> How dare you insult a HELLENE
> I am a greek
you're a moron.
> I do speak grik you fat Amerikanki Kariolis MALAKA !
> SKATA NA FAS AMERIKANIKI !
"amerikanki" and "amerikaniki"? good one sparky....