Was John Belushi pure Albanian?
wo...@my-deja.com
Belushi. www.gunguide.com/~vegemite/JohnBelushi.htm
BTW did you know that John Belushi also played a Greek restaurant owner
(Nikos - If I remember correctly) on Saturday Night Live? "Cheeseburger,
Cheeseburger, Pepsi, Pepsi..."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
wo...@my-deja.com
<7v8igj$3jh$1...@nnrp1.deja.c
om>,
have turned 50 this year.
He was a great comedian no
matter what nationality he
was.
Paige
And who the fuck cares!
wo...@my-deja.com
wo...@my-deja.com
jovim...@aol.com (JOVIMAXIMO) wrote:
> After reading the items in this so-called newsgroup, all will be happy to
> hear that this 'newsgroup' will be removed because there is no culture in
> albaniaa.>>>>
>
> JOHN BELUSHI WAS PURE ALBANIAN. HIS BROTHER JIM BELUSHI KEEPS ON COMMING TO
> ALBANIA EVERYTIME AND HE SPEAKS FLUENT ALBANIAN. UNLIKE GREEK LOSERS WHO
> HAVEN'T BROUGHT FORTH ANY FAMOUS PERSON SINCE PLATO (THE PIG-FACE)
>
Well, it's really peculiar then that John would play a role as a Greek if he
were pure Albanian, wouldn't it?
wo...@my-deja.com
COMMING TO ALBANIA EVERYTIME AND HE SPEAKS FLUENT ALBANIAN. UNLIKE GREEK
LOSERS WHO HAVEN'T BROUGHT FORTH ANY FAMOUS PERSON SINCE PLATO (THE
PIG-FACE)>>>>>
Interesting. Did Jim also say anything bad about Greeks or killing Serbs in
any of his speeches?
d-bo
wo...@my-deja.com
It was a favorable parody otherwise the Greeks would have been up in arms
over it. I even thought it was funny. Besides, you don't make fun of
something you hate, stupid. Cheeseburger anyone?
Genci Ymeri
Is that person pure turkish ?? ( He has darker color that Albanians have or
he has greek color)
Only for some statistic, I'm going to give you some information that
Turquish moved by force 1.000.000 Serbs
,700.000 Albanians, houndret thousands bulgarians & unknown number of greeks
in their west coast, or in Syria border.
<wo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7v8igj$3jh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Get a load of this photo of a Turkish saloon keeper who looks like John
> Belushi. www.gunguide.com/~vegemite/JohnBelushi.htm
>
> BTW did you know that John Belushi also played a Greek restaurant owner
> (Nikos - If I remember correctly) on Saturday Night Live? "Cheeseburger,
> Cheeseburger, Pepsi, Pepsi..."
>
>
wo...@my-deja.com
I'm gonna look into that and find out for sure, 'cause I don't think he did.
Greekgrl2h
Although his family was from albania, he was a "greek ethnic"
PHALANX
Greekgrl2h wrote in message
<19991028163318...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>John Belushi had a GREEK orthodox funeral and is buried in Marthas
Vineyard.
>Although his family was from albania, he was a "greek ethnic"
I think he was an Albanian. Belushi is not Greek surname.
PHALANX
Greekgrl2h
cheeesbarga
cheesebarga
cheesebarga
cheesebarga
ododmantis asks the short oder cook for 3 cheeseburgers like this:
cheesebarga
cheesebarga
cheesebarga
GS
PHALANX wrote:
This is pretty well known, that the Belushis are Albanian and Orthodox:
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Land/5987/biography.html
> BIOGRAPHY OF JAMES BELUSHI
>
>
>
> Still Under Construction
>
>
>
> Date and Place of Birth: June 15, 1954, Chicago Illinois.
>
> Parents: Adam and Agnes Belushi. Both of his parents were Albanian. His father was 16 when he
> immigrated from Albania, and I believe that his mother was born in US by Albanian immigrants.
> However, I could be wrong about that.
>
> Both parents are dead now. First died his mother, from cancer, and after several years his father. I
> can only guess about his mother, but I know for sure that his father, Adam, had a huge impact on
> James life and I believe that passed on James some of the 'good old days' standards, ideas and
> values. I grew up in Greece and I come from the same background that James' father came. I know
> how those men were thinking and what their values were. And I can see them in James too.
>
> As it's well known, his father used to have a restaurant and he wanted John, his eldest son, to follow
> him in the business by taking over the restaurant. This is something very precious to dad's from
> Greece and Albany and I believe Italy too. But life had different plans for John, and later James.
>
> Siblings: Marian, John and Bill.
>
> As we all know, John died in 1982 from a drug overdose. It is very sad because he didn't have to die
> so young. But life plays her own games sometimes. His death has shaped James to the person we
> know today. John's death had a huge impact on the decisions James would make later in his life. I
> personally think that it made him smarter and wiser.
>
> Marian, I believe is the oldest from all the siblings, however, I may be wrong. I don't know too many
> things about Marian, except that she was the first from the Belushi kids to get married and leave
> from the house, she has a son, I believe she is either divorced or widower, and she is a professional
> psychic. I used to have her info contact but I see that now days they have omit this info from the
> net. So, respecting their privacy, I am not going to include any of this info anywhere in these pages.
>
> Bill, I believe lives in New York. He is the youngest from the Belushi kids. The "benjamin" of the
> family, as we say in Greece. He is not famous as his two older brothers. But he is also succesfull in
> whatever he does. I had Bill's info too, but for the same reasons as with Marian, I'm not going to post
> any info.
>
> Citizenship: American.
>
jo...@doe.com
brother Jim. Their familys may have come from Albania, Greece, who
knows? In America we don't care where you came from but rather who you
are and how you can fit into and make a contribution to America.
On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:37:58 GMT, wo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>Well, it's really peculiar then that John would play a role as a Greek if he
>were pure Albanian, wouldn't it?>>> HE WAS JUST MAKING FUN OF THEM >>>>>
>
>It was a favorable parody otherwise the Greeks would have been up in arms
>over it. I even thought it was funny. Besides, you don't make fun of
>something you hate, stupid. Cheeseburger anyone?
>
>
gogu
Ο <jo...@doe.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα συζήτησης:
381945c9....@news-server.austin.rr.com...
> You still don't het it do you? John Beluchi was an AMERICAN. So is his
> brother Jim. Their familys may have come from Albania, Greece, who
> knows? In America we don't care where you came from but rather who you
> are and how you can fit into and make a contribution to America.
Really? So M.Duckakis didn't loose the elections because he was of Greek
origin? Or you think that if in his place would be an Irish-American, he
would loose the same?... And why you think that there will never be
President a colored American? "In America we don't care where you came from,
but rather who you are..."??? Come on boy, don't be so naive...
jo...@doe.com
because he lost. You forget he was a former governor and had held
numerous other important public offices. Just like any other
presidential capitate. Remember the only native americans were the
indians, and even they came across the Bearing sea. They just got here
earlier.
I firmly believe that one day there will be a woman american
president. I also believe that there will be an african descent
president. Today they are important congressmen and cabinet members,
governors and mayors and it is just a matter of time until a black
american makes the plunge and goes for it. Just as John Kennedy was
elected as the first catholic and is now revered, so others will
follow. Religion is now generally a non issue. Race will someday be
the same.
We're not there yet but for a country of mongrels and immigrants we
haven't done to bad. In only 225 years of existence we have managed to
become the most powerful nation on earth. Mainly economical but yes
also militarily. We have more millionaires and Billionaires by far
than any country. We have more first generation immigrants that have
become wealthy and successful. We also have more immigrants who have
become politically powerful by far. Including Madaline Albright. Her
parents, jews. came to America to escape the holocaust. Her
grandparents and much of her fa,ily was killed during it. I can make a
list but you and I both know, it would be long and take up the whole
news group. Our standard of living sometimes is almost an
embarrassment compared to much of the world. Our biggest topic of
discussion is obesity and how to control our weight. This from a
nation of mongrels. Think about it.
wo...@my-deja.com
originally thought he was Italian). So much for the myth of pure Aryan stock.
Right, Jovi?
gogu
> No M Duckakis did not lose because he was a Greek descendant. He lost
> because he lost.
That's your opinion...
>You forget he was a former governor and had held
> numerous other important public offices. Just like any other
> presidential capitate. Remember the only native americans were the
> indians, and even they came across the Bearing sea. They just got here
> earlier.
There are many "non-saxons" in many public offices,yes, but this is the
excuse. I think they wiil NEVER become presidents. Can you respect my
opinion, even if you disagree with it?
> I firmly believe that one day there will be a woman american
> president. I also believe that there will be an african descent
> president.
Come on! It's easy to say that, because you know that we will not be alive
till then! What you write, I can take it only as a jocke... Not for the
woman president, but for the colored one...
>Today they are important congressmen and cabinet members,
> governors and mayors and it is just a matter of time until a black
> american makes the plunge and goes for it.
I told you, that is only the excuse! Give them some crumb, so they don't ask
for more...
>Just as John Kennedy was
> elected as the first catholic and is now revered, so others will
> follow. Religion is now generally a non issue. Race will someday be
> the same.
Are you sure about that? Can you imagine a Muslim president???? Sory, I
can't.... But I would be very please to see it come true...
> We're not there yet but for a country of mongrels and immigrants we
> haven't done to bad. In only 225 years of existence we have managed to
> become the most powerful nation on earth. Mainly economical but yes
> also militarily. We have more millionaires and Billionaires by far
> than any country.
And this is something to be proud off? Where is the spirit? I didn't see you
mention it... As for power (military and economic) I can remember an other
short guy saying the same... Hitler I think was his name... Do you like to
have the same motivations like him? Sory, I don't...
>We have more first generation immigrants that have
> become wealthy and successful. We also have more immigrants who have
> become politically powerful by far.
And? Where is the big acmievement? Is this something that indicates the
people culture or what?...
>Including Madaline Albright. Her
> parents, jews. came to America to escape the holocaust.
They were good guys. She is not...
>Her
> grandparents and much of her fa,ily was killed during it.
They have my sincere sympathy... What can I say more? Do their daughter's
victims in Kosovo have the same sympathy by you?...
>I can make a
> list but you and I both know, it would be long and take up the whole
> news group.
Agree.
>Our standard of living sometimes is almost an
> embarrassment compared to much of the world.
Agrred again. What do you want to demonstrate by that?
>Our biggest topic of
> discussion is obesity and how to control our weight. This from a
> nation of mongrels. Think about it.
Yes, you are right! But I don't understand why I have to think about it...
I consider myshelf an educated person (I have two doctorates in Architecture
and History), so I can't understand why you think that I never thought about
this earlier... Maybe because you didn't?... That kind of problems was among
my interests in the fragile age of 18 or 20!...
Respectfully,
Dr Arch. Eng. K.N.B
Thomas D
a part of Epirus and should have been succeded to Greece long ago.
PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7vak36$6a8$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
wo...@my-deja.com
jovim...@aol.com (JOVIMAXIMO) wrote:
> John Belushi could've easily passed for Greek, Turkish or even Italian. (I
> originally thought he was Italian). So much for the myth of pure Aryan stock.
> Right, Jovi?>>>>
>
> APES.
>
You can't even face the fuck'n truth shit for brains and I don't care how
many ball players out there have blond hair. You failed time and time again
to address the real issue. Sorry to have to be so blunt.
wo...@my-deja.com
was 100%, honest to goodness pure-bred Albanian. Are you all happy now?
PHALANX
jo...@doe.com wrote in message
<381ace05....@news-server.austin.rr.com>...
> No M Duckakis did not lose because he was a Greek descendant. He lost
>because he lost.
He lost because he was a bloody Liberal. I can assure that I would never
vote for such a politician even if he was my twin brother. Liberals were a
trend of the 60's and this jerk was running as president in the 80's, during
a Conservative era, were the Left was despised. I am glad that Mr. Bush
emerged victorious and I hope Bill Clinton will be the last Democratic
president in US history. As to Mr. Dukakis' ethnic backgound, he would have
had little support among WASP's as well as among Jews. Let us not kid
ourselves, there will never be a Greek President unless he is a Protestant,
like Spyro Agnew, VP of the Nixon administration. Agnew was of Greek origin
but also a Protestant.
Costas
>You forget he was a former governor and had held
>numerous other important public offices. Just like any other
>presidential capitate. Remember the only native americans were the
>indians, and even they came across the Bearing sea. They just got here
>earlier.
> I firmly believe that one day there will be a woman american
>president. I also believe that there will be an african descent
>president. Today they are important congressmen and cabinet members,
>governors and mayors and it is just a matter of time until a black
>american makes the plunge and goes for it. Just as John Kennedy was
>elected as the first catholic and is now revered, so others will
>follow. Religion is now generally a non issue. Race will someday be
>the same.
> We're not there yet but for a country of mongrels and immigrants we
>haven't done to bad. In only 225 years of existence we have managed to
>become the most powerful nation on earth. Mainly economical but yes
>also militarily. We have more millionaires and Billionaires by far
>than any country. We have more first generation immigrants that have
>become wealthy and successful. We also have more immigrants who have
>become politically powerful by far. Including Madaline Albright. Her
>parents, jews. came to America to escape the holocaust. Her
>grandparents and much of her fa,ily was killed during it. I can make a
>list but you and I both know, it would be long and take up the whole
>news group. Our standard of living sometimes is almost an
>embarrassment compared to much of the world. Our biggest topic of
>discussion is obesity and how to control our weight. This from a
>nation of mongrels. Think about it.
>
>On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:01:01 +0300, "gogu" <gola...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Ο <jo...@doe.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα συζήτησης:
gogu
say, non-Saxon)... But as for the "bloody liberals", come on, don't be
offensive! As for the rest of your message, I can't agree with you; for
instance, I like PAOK, that means that I MUST be against OLYMPIAKOS when
they play in Europe?... No my friend, this is the curse of our country: we
never suport our own kind, regardless religion or other things...
respectfully
Ο PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> έγραψε στο μήνυμα συζήτησης:
7ve4n5$2q6$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
Djangoo
> There are 100,000 Greeks living in Albania, rightfully southern albania is
>a part of Epirus and should have been succeded to Greece long ago.
>
There are more Greeks than that living in Epiros. If you can call it living.
The Shiptars are withholding any civil rights they deserve. Many are
leaving....
Djangoo
>to address the real issue. Sorry to have to be so blunt.
>
The international community finally knows that the Shiptars are idiots.
Emre Ucok
: > We're not there yet but for a country of mongrels and immigrants we
: > haven't done to bad. In only 225 years of existence we have managed to
: > become the most powerful nation on earth. Mainly economical but yes
: > also militarily. We have more millionaires and Billionaires by far
: > than any country.
I do not mean to criticize the United States but take the following
into account when objectively evaluating the U.S.'s success:
1) The U.S. owes a lot of its scientific progress to first-generation
immigrants (brain drain from abroad). Just take a look at the scientists
who developed the A-Bomb, Rockets etc. If that is not enough, take a look
at the Ph.D. programs at distinguished universities and check the foreign
scholar ratio.
2) The landmass of the U.S. is 3 times that of the E.U. even though
the U.S. and the E.U. have comparable total GNP's. The U.S. is
about 15(!) times the size of France, the largest European state, and a
second rank world power.
3) During the American Industrial Revolution, your country had the luxury
of being isolated by two oceans (hence added national security) unlike the
European States. The combined armed forces of the U.S. at the beginning of
WWI was slightly larger than Belgium's!!!! National Security is expensive
and sometimes a major hindrance to development (see Turkey, my country)
4) The U.S. may be the world leader in 1) Cutting edge technologies 2)Military
sophistication and projection of power 3) Entertainment 4) Average standard of
living in the world, however your crime rate, traffic accidents, drug abuse
rate etc. etc. is unacceptably high compared to other countries in the G-7...
Remember, quality of life is not just a bunch of economic statistics or
a per capita GNP number
5) Yes, the U.S. won the cold war, but it did not do it alone. It was assisted
mainly by Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea and Turkey. If one
or more of these countries was in the other camp, who knows ? (P.S. No I am
not a communist, or a Soviet sympathizer). Of course, the lion's share of
the credit (of winning the cold war) goes to the U.S. !!
: >We have more first generation immigrants that have
: > become wealthy and successful. We also have more immigrants who have
: > become politically powerful by far.
Yes, the U.S. is the country if you have big dreams, I will agree to that.
The world needed a U.S. for a long time. Thank God for the U.S., an
alternative to smaller nation states. The mere existence of the U.S.
caused all the other countries to act differently than they otherwise would.
Emery
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Emre Ucok, tel: (215)417-5540, e-mail: uc...@seas.upenn.edu
Master of Science Candidate, Computer and Information Science
Class of December '99, University of Pennsylvania
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
gogu
something posted by me!!! These are his words!!! Not mine!!! Please, be more
carefull...
regards
gogu
P.S
Please, don't be ridiculous; don't put Turkey together with U.S,
G.Britain, Germany, Italy etc! You can't compare with these big forces...
You are as small as Greece. And you seem to forget France, Holland and
others.
Ο Emre Ucok <uc...@blue.seas.upenn.edu> έγραψε στο μήνυμα συζήτησης:
7vp8lj$ebh$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
Emre Ucok
gogu (gola...@yahoo.com) wrote:
: ARE YOU NUTS? THAT WAS NOT MY POSTING! It was the reply of an American(?) to
: something posted by me!!! These are his words!!! Not mine!!! Please, be more
: G.Britain, Germany, Italy etc! You can't compare with these big forces...
: You are as small as Greece. And you seem to forget France, Holland and
: others.
Sorry. I was responding to whoever posted the message. It was a general reply.
Now, abouuuut Turkey. Why is the lesser developed Turkey so important
in winning the cold war ? The reason of Turkey's importance is not economic
but strategic, still Turkey is still as important to the U.S. as Britain,
Germany, Japan and Korea. It is definitely not a minor player.
* NATO really depends on 4 countries: U.S., Germany, Britain, Turkey
all the other countries are less important. We are talking security policy
dictates here, not just economic power. Just check the # of U.S. bases in
Turkey (there are more than 20). Then look at Turkey on the map pls.
* Especially France is not an important country as far as U.S./NATO
defense strategy is concerned. (need I remind you that France withdrew
from the military wing of NATO in 1966). Also Belgium, Holland are not
big variables from a NATO standpoint.
* Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your reference.
Regards,
Emre
gogu
Ο Emre Ucok <uc...@blue.seas.upenn.edu> έγραψε στο μήνυμα συζήτησης:
7vq69i$j7b$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
>
> gogu (gola...@yahoo.com) wrote:
> : ARE YOU NUTS? THAT WAS NOT MY POSTING! It was the reply of an
American(?) to
> : something posted by me!!! These are his words!!! Not mine!!! Please, be
more
> : Please, don't be ridiculous; don't put Turkey together with U.S,
> : G.Britain, Germany, Italy etc! You can't compare with these big
forces...
> : You are as small as Greece. And you seem to forget France, Holland and
> : others.
>
> Sorry. I was responding to whoever posted the message. It was a general
reply.
Accepted.
> Now, abouuuut Turkey. Why is the lesser developed Turkey so important
> in winning the cold war ? The reason of Turkey's importance is not
economic
> but strategic, still Turkey is still as important to the U.S. as Britain,
> Germany, Japan and Korea. It is definitely not a minor player.
That's to flatter your hunger for recognition! You are treated as "third
world" allies by Americans, not as British or Germans are regarded... Don't
you agree?...
>
> * NATO really depends on 4 countries: U.S., Germany, Britain, Turkey
> all the other countries are less important. We are talking security policy
> dictates here, not just economic power. Just check the # of U.S. bases in
> Turkey (there are more than 20). Then look at Turkey on the map pls.
You think that quantity is more important than quality???? Well, typical
mentality of non educated people...
> * Especially France is not an important country as far as U.S./NATO
> defense strategy is concerned. (need I remind you that France withdrew
> from the military wing of NATO in 1966). Also Belgium, Holland are not
> big variables from a NATO standpoint.
Are you relly so naive? France indeed withdrew from the military wing of
NATO, but that was for political reasons... In a few hours they could be
"connected" again... Don't forget the common French-British nuclear and
space programs.. Or the fighters (Tornado, Jaguar) program... Or the Concord
program... OR.... Or...
>
> * Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
> Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
reference.
>
> Regards,
>
> Emre
So? Can you tell me about the qulity of life in Greece and Turkey? The
number (%) of poor people? The number of houses without electric curent, T.V
set, fridge, car etc... Or the percentage of owned apartements? Don't
bother; Greece is first in E.U with a stunning 75% (second is Spain)!!! Can
you compare with Turkey? Don't think so...
Best regards and good bye
plonk
gogu
Emre Ucok
: I hate to beagin a endless line of postings, but:
: That's to flatter your hunger for recognition! You are treated as "third
: world" allies by Americans, not as British or Germans are regarded... Don't
: you agree?...
If we are treated as just another third world ally by the Americans/Brits etc.
why aren't they doing anything to solve the Cyprus issue to Greece's favor
(remember, Greece is first world and a much more important (!) country
for the U.S. after all, isn't it ???)
I am sure Britain, France, Germany and the U.S. holds Greece in much much
higher regard than Turkey!!! That must be why the oncoming European
Civilization/History exhibit does not count the Byzantine civilization
as European... (which in my opinion is the biggest of mistakes E.U. has made)
These Holy Roman Empire descendants reeeeallly love you guys!!!!
: > * NATO really depends on 4 countries: U.S., Germany, Britain, Turkey
: > all the other countries are less important. We are talking security policy
: > dictates here, not just economic power. Just check the # of U.S. bases in
: > Turkey (there are more than 20). Then look at Turkey on the map pls.
: You think that quantity is more important than quality???? Well, typical
: mentality of non educated people...
No, I am talking about strategic and geopolitical reality. Plus, the average
education level in Turkey is not bad at all. We are waay too advanced to
be third world, our economy resembles Poland/Hungary/Argentina much more than
it resembles Bangladesh/Syria or Mongolia. Just check the CIA world factbook.
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/country.html
: > * Especially France is not an important country as far as U.S./NATO
: > defense strategy is concerned. (need I remind you that France withdrew
: > from the military wing of NATO in 1966). Also Belgium, Holland are not
: > big variables from a NATO standpoint.
: Are you relly so naive? France indeed withdrew from the military wing of
: NATO, but that was for political reasons... In a few hours they could be
: "connected" again... Don't forget the common French-British nuclear and
: space programs.. Or the fighters (Tornado, Jaguar) program... Or the Concord
: program... OR.... Or...
"In a few hours they could be connected again".... Geeez, this sounds
like NATO command structure is as simple as that of an army battalion.
You are right when you mention about the Mirage/Tornado/Jaguar programs etc.
but THAT DOES NOT MEAN that a NATO without the participation of Turkey
will be as powerful as it is now. France is France and Turkey is Turkey...
The core of NATO still consists of 4 countries US, Britain, Germany and Turkey
as I said before...
: > * Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
: > Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
: reference.
: So? Can you tell me about the qulity of life in Greece and Turkey? The
: number (%) of poor people? The number of houses without electric curent, T.V
: set, fridge, car etc... Or the percentage of owned apartements? Don't
: bother; Greece is first in E.U with a stunning 75% (second is Spain)!!! Can
: you compare with Turkey? Don't think so...
The standards of living in Greece are better than those of Turkey, but worse
than that of Spain, Italy, France and the others. Don't flatter yourself.
Also consider that your economy is too small to make a difference in NATO
(that is why you are not one of the Big Ten emerging countries).
Turkey may not have a big big economy either but we have the manpower and the
strategic location, the basic economic requirements and the military tradition
We don't favor the Russians or the Germans too much, and we are friendly with
the Israelis. In fact Turkey (for the U.S. and Britain) is an ally made in
heaven. Like it or not...
I could see this discussion going on and on!!! Maybe Costas Zissiadis should
join too !!!! Hey Costas(PHALANX) where are u man ? Missed you ! Ha ha ...
Regards,
Emre
gogu
> gogu (gola...@yahoo.com) wrote:
> : I hate to beagin a endless line of postings, but:
> : That's to flatter your hunger for recognition! You are treated as "third
> : world" allies by Americans, not as British or Germans are regarded...
Don't
> : you agree?...
>
> If we are treated as just another third world ally by the Americans/Brits
etc.
> why aren't they doing anything to solve the Cyprus issue to Greece's favor
> (remember, Greece is first world and a much more important (!) country
> for the U.S. after all, isn't it ???)
You really don't understand? When I say that you are treted as a third world
ally, I mean that they take advandage of your strategic position but they
are behaving with you like to some barbarians! This is a position that I
don't agree at all, because any people even not so developed, must be
treated with respect. So, you missunderstood my point...
> I am sure Britain, France, Germany and the U.S. holds Greece in much much
> higher regard than Turkey!!! That must be why the oncoming European
> Civilization/History exhibit does not count the Byzantine civilization
> as European... (which in my opinion is the biggest of mistakes E.U. has
made)
> These Holy Roman Empire descendants reeeeallly love you guys!!!!
Indeed they treat Greece more respectfully. About the muzeum, why you don't
tell the whole truth? That the Egyptian, Roman AND Greek-Byzantin
civilizations are excluded??? This seams that some idiots have a specific
attitude face to all "ante-Carolingian" civilizations!!!! So, they don't
respevt even Roman and Egyptians... Or maybe they included Otomans in that
muzeum?... LOL And more, I think that you know (but tricky thinking don't
tell it...) that allready many important minds of Europe (not Greeks...) are
criticizing that fault... Let's see what follows and then talk...
> : > * NATO really depends on 4 countries: U.S., Germany, Britain, Turkey
> : > all the other countries are less important. We are talking security
policy
> : > dictates here, not just economic power. Just check the # of U.S. bases
in
> : > Turkey (there are more than 20). Then look at Turkey on the map pls.
> : You think that quantity is more important than quality???? Well, typical
> : mentality of non educated people...
>
> No, I am talking about strategic and geopolitical reality. Plus, the
average
> education level in Turkey is not bad at all. We are waay too advanced to
> be third world, our economy resembles Poland/Hungary/Argentina much more
than
> it resembles Bangladesh/Syria or Mongolia. Just check the CIA world
factbook.
>
> http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/country.html
Good God, what a reliable source!!!!!! That's good you accept that your
economy is compared to that of Poland, Argentina etc!!! Now is your turn;
compare it with Greece's economy... When I was refering to third world, I
was thinking to a "below European medium" economy. Let's say "second world".
It's all right with you?
> : > * Especially France is not an important country as far as U.S./NATO
> : > defense strategy is concerned. (need I remind you that France withdrew
> : > from the military wing of NATO in 1966). Also Belgium, Holland are not
> : > big variables from a NATO standpoint.
> : Are you relly so naive? France indeed withdrew from the military wing of
> : NATO, but that was for political reasons... In a few hours they could be
> : "connected" again... Don't forget the common French-British nuclear and
> : space programs.. Or the fighters (Tornado, Jaguar) program... Or the
Concord
> : program... OR.... Or...
>
> "In a few hours they could be connected again".... Geeez, this sounds
> like NATO command structure is as simple as that of an army battalion.
> You are right when you mention about the Mirage/Tornado/Jaguar programs
etc.
> but THAT DOES NOT MEAN that a NATO without the participation of Turkey
> will be as powerful as it is now. France is France and Turkey is Turkey...
> The core of NATO still consists of 4 countries US, Britain, Germany and
Turkey
> as I said before...
OF COURSE! FRANCE IS FRANCE AND TURKEY IS TURKEY!!! That would be too much
to caompare those twi countries!!! But if you still believe that you are the
"core of NATO", I can't help you... Tell me Mr core of NATO, how many active
NATO HQ has Turkey, and how many, for instance, Italy?... If you don't know,
here are the numbers: active HQ: Italy=1, Greece=0, Turkey=0, Spain=0
inactive HQ: Greece=1, Turkey=1, Spain=1
So as you can see, the importance between the two countries is quite the
same... But I can agree with you that for the moment (for the time that
petrol is our primar combustible...) Turkey has a slighter bigger strategic
importance for NATO. So? That makes you rullers of the region or gives you a
better level of living? By far no... It only points out that you like to
depend on others and be courageous by expences of others...
> : > * Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
> : > Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
> : reference.
> : So? Can you tell me about the qulity of life in Greece and Turkey? The
> : number (%) of poor people? The number of houses without electric curent,
T.V
> : set, fridge, car etc... Or the percentage of owned apartements? Don't
> : bother; Greece is first in E.U with a stunning 75% (second is Spain)!!!
Can
> : you compare with Turkey? Don't think so...
>
> The standards of living in Greece are better than those of Turkey, but
worse
> than that of Spain, Italy, France and the others. Don't flatter yourself.
> Also consider that your economy is too small to make a difference in NATO
> (that is why you are not one of the Big Ten emerging countries).
You are wrong! But it's good that you accept that in Greece they live better
than you... Spain is the same as Greece and Italy really higher. And you
know why? Because you don't know that officialy (E.U statistic service) in
Greece lateral economy is big as 40 to 60 %!!! That makes the official
numbers about Greece to be biger by 40 or 60%!!! And yes, Greeks flatter
themeselvs, because in any way you put it, they live better than you!!! So,
try to make order in your house, try to make the army to focus to its primar
mission and not controlling public life, try to make you laws compatible
with them of the rest of civilized countries, try to abolish the death
penalty, try to legalize the comunist party, try...., try.... try....., and
then we can speak about quality of life my friend...
> Turkey may not have a big big economy either but we have the manpower and
the
> strategic location, the basic economic requirements and the military
tradition
Then why are you behind Europe (Greece included...) by about 100 years?...
LOL
> We don't favor the Russians or the Germans too much, and we are friendly
with
> the Israelis. In fact Turkey (for the U.S. and Britain) is an ally made in
> heaven. Like it or not...
Maybe I don't like it, but it's not important what I think. As for Israelis,
you must be blind not to say that after Baraks election the Israeli-Turkish
relations are a little bit "colder"... And that he immediately signed a new
military-cooperation pact with Greece!!! And that allready the two countries
had their first common exercises!! Well?
>
> I could see this discussion going on and on!!! Maybe Costas Zissiadis
should
> join too !!!! Hey Costas(PHALANX) where are u man ? Missed you ! Ha ha ...
>
> Regards,
>
> Emre
Agree with you! An extremist-nationalist Turk will never understand other
than his point of view! So bye, and as I told you: let's hope that we'll be
allive after 15 or 20 years and we'll talk again about Turkey's and Greece's
prosperity!!!
Bye
gogu
Emre Ucok
: You really don't understand? When I say that you are treted as a third world
: ally, I mean that they take advandage of your strategic position but they
: are behaving with you like to some barbarians! This is a position that I
: don't agree at all, because any people even not so developed, must be
: treated with respect. So, you missunderstood my point...
Thank you for your sympathy. I still hold my position that they treat us
better than you think they do. After all it was Britain and the U.S. that
twisted the E.U.'s arm to make Turkey the 12th candidate (which isn't that
much but it is at least a start). I am sure they appreciated Greece's help(!)
during the air strikes on Kosovo. You guys might as well have been a member
of the ex-Warsaw pact.
: Indeed they treat Greece more respectfully. About the muzeum, why you don't
: tell the whole truth? That the Egyptian, Roman AND Greek-Byzantin
: civilizations are excluded??? This seams that some idiots have a specific
: attitude face to all "ante-Carolingian" civilizations!!!! So, they don't
: respevt even Roman and Egyptians... Or maybe they included Otomans in that
: muzeum?... LOL And more, I think that you know (but tricky thinking don't
: tell it...) that allready many important minds of Europe (not Greeks...) are
: criticizing that fault... Let's see what follows and then talk...
After a lot of noise they will probably try to appease Greece and Britain
by making some modifications to the museum plan.... However, the "insult"
has been made now and it cannot be deleted easily....
: > : > * NATO really depends on 4 countries: U.S., Germany, Britain, Turkey
: Good God, what a reliable source!!!!!! That's good you accept that your
: economy is compared to that of Poland, Argentina etc!!! Now is your turn;
: compare it with Greece's economy... When I was refering to third world, I
: was thinking to a "below European medium" economy. Let's say "second world".
: It's all right with you?
"Second World" is fine. "Third World" is not. Although technically "second
world" is a term used for communist countries. I am not the blind patriot
like Costas is. All I want is for you guys to stop insulting Turkey the same
way these EU museum organizers are insulting Greece. It's not fair either way.
: > : program... OR.... Or...
: > You are right when you mention about the Mirage/Tornado/Jaguar programs
: > but THAT DOES NOT MEAN that a NATO without the participation of Turkey
: > will be as powerful as it is now. France is France and Turkey is Turkey...
: > core of NATO still consists of 4 countries US, Britain, Germany andTurkey
: "core of NATO", I can't help you... Tell me Mr core of NATO, how many active
: NATO HQ has Turkey, and how many, for instance, Italy?... If you don't know,
: here are the numbers: active HQ: Italy=1, Greece=0, Turkey=0, Spain=0
: inactive HQ: Greece=1, Turkey=1, Spain=1
: So as you can see, the importance between the two countries is quite the
: same... But I can agree with you that for the moment (for the time that
: petrol is our primar combustible...) Turkey has a slighter bigger strategic
: importance for NATO. So? That makes you rullers of the region or gives you a
: better level of living? By far no... It only points out that you like to
: depend on others and be courageous by expences of others...
You are right and your are wrong. You are wrong because:
1) I got the "core of NATO" ideas from articles written by U.S. think tanks
like the foreign policy institute. U.S. defense policy during the cold war
REALLY rested on i)Germany ii)Turkey iii)England. I can find the articles
for you if you wish.
2) Active bases do not mean much. There are MANY non-NATO U.S. bases in Turkey
and they are not minor bases (Incirlik for one). Airspace is as important as
bases and Turkey's got plenty.
3) Turkey is not just strategically important because of proximity to oil
it is strategically important because:
i) it is the only secular working model of a muslim country (good or bad)
ii) it is located close to causcaus AND eastern med AND central asia AND
southern russia AND eastern europe AND the balkans AND middle east
iii) it is modern enough (second world) to meet NATO requirements
iv) it is a friendly country (as opposed to Iran + Afghanistan)...
you can thank Ataturk for that.
4) You are right when you say that we are not getting a lot for what we are
worth. You guys are using Russia vs. EU vs. NATO all against each other
for getting the maximum leverage... And you are in a much less strategic
location than us (you don't have the proximity to causcaus and central asia)
Still good job! Wish we could do the same leveraging, but EU and Russia
do not favor us like you.
: > The standards of living in Greece are better than those of Turkey, worse
: > than that of Spain, Italy, France and the others. Don't flatter yourself.
: > Also consider that your economy is too small to make a difference in NATO
: > (that is why you are not one of the Big Ten emerging countries).
: You are wrong! But it's good that you accept that in Greece they live better
: than you... Spain is the same as Greece and Italy really higher. And you
: know why? Because you don't know that officialy (E.U statistic service) in
: Greece lateral economy is big as 40 to 60 %!!! That makes the official
: numbers about Greece to be biger by 40 or 60%!!! And yes, Greeks flatter
: themeselvs, because in any way you put it, they live better than you!!! So,
: try to make order in your house, try to make the army to focus to its primar
: mission and not controlling public life, try to make you laws compatible
: with them of the rest of civilized countries, try to abolish the death
: penalty, try to legalize the comunist party, try...., try.... try....., and
: then we can speak about quality of life my friend...
Same argument applies to Turkey. Lateral economy in Turkey is as big as 50%.
So the GNP per capita in Turkey is $3000*1.5 = $4500. With PPP adjusting
you can see that the GDP per capita is $9000 on Turkey's average. With
the completion of GAP Turkey's Eastern provinces will be at par with the
western provinces... then the PPP GDP per capita will probably reach $15,000
(GNP per capita will be $8000) in 15 years. The PKK is not much of a problem
anymore thanks to Ocalan being caught with a Greek passport (there goes
one supporter of PKK) and Syria being intimidated with the 54 Phantom-2000's
and the veteran (thanks to fighting PKK) Turkish army divisions. For the
first time in years we got a majority seat govenrment. So you can see
my friend, we are trying..., trying..., trying... very hard.
: Then why are you behind Europe (Greece included...) by about 100 years?...
: LOL
Not 100 years !!!!!! Come on !!! Geeeezus man. We do have electricity and cars
in Turkey you know !!!!!!!! Oh, by the way, in "Money for Nothing" they
mention about a microwave oven.... what is a microwave oven ???!?!?!?!?!
Ha ha ha ... oh also, you should see my 386SX computer that I just bought...
it is soooo fast...
: > We don't favor the Russians or the Germans too much, and we are friendwith
: > the Israelis. In fact Turkey (for the U.S. and Britain) is an ally made in
: > heaven. Like it or not...
: Maybe I don't like it, but it's not important what I think. As for Israelis,
: you must be blind not to say that after Baraks election the Israeli-Turkish
: relations are a little bit "colder"... And that he immediately signed a new
: military-cooperation pact with Greece!!! And that allready the two countries
: had their first common exercises!! Well?
A little bit colder ??? Nope. A little less steaming hot. They are still
selling us military equipment and the bilateral trade agreements are still
at full steam. They are less depending on us that is true. But that is not
so bad.
As for the Greek_Israel common exercises: all power to you!! We are not
jealous. We will also keep having our common exercises with Israel. I hope
that one-day (after working out our problems) there will be a
Turkey-Greece-Israel axis that is to all of our benefit, neighbor.
: > I could see this discussion going on and on!!! Maybe Costas Zissiadis
: > should join too !!!! Hey Costas(PHALANX) where are u man ? Missed you !
: Agree with you! An extremist-nationalist Turk will never understand other
: than his point of view! So bye, and as I told you: let's hope that we'll be
: allive after 15 or 20 years and we'll talk again about Turkey's and Greece's
: prosperity!!!
I am not an extremist nationalist Turk and I do not think you are an
extremist nationalist Greek either. Please do not make assumptions.
I just enjoy it when Costas gets upset, and he likes getting me upset also.
This discussion will never end.
Cheers to Turkish+Greek prosperity and the future coexistence of the
Byzantine and Ottoman Empires (the real European civilizations !!!!!!!).
Emre
gogu
You twist everything, you don't answer, you use CIA or American sourses to
make your point (how impartial; would you like to use Russian sourses for
instance to make my point?...), so... hasta la vista!
respect
Ο Emre Ucok <uc...@blue.seas.upenn.edu> έγραψε στο μήνυμα συζήτησης:
7vropb$80v$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
PHALANX
Emre Ucok wrote in message
>* Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
>Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
reference.
Greek GDP per capita $13,100. Turkish GDP per capita $6,000
Greek GDP growth (1998*) 3,5%
Turkish GDP growth (Q2 1999**) -2%
*Greece measures GDP annually
**Turkey measures GDP quarterly
In other words when compared to Greece, Turkey is in a very bad shape, which
has even worsened since the recent earthquake.
Phalanx
>
>Regards,
>
>Emre
Emre Ucok
our usual business... where were we left ??? :-)
PHALANX (phala...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Emre Ucok wrote in message
: >* Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
: >Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
: reference.
: Greek GDP per capita $13,100. Turkish GDP per capita $6,000
$6720 not $6000, $6000 was two years ago. And Greece's is $14,463.
http://www.oecd.org/publications/figures/e_79_oifgraph_gdp_capita.pdf
Yes, I can hear you saying... "Ohh! Greece is soooo good and Turkey is
soooo baaad", but I decided to let you see this link anyway, because
unlike you, I am not in the business of discrediting and mud-slinging.
Greece's 14,463 is pretty good !! 6720 is not so bad either. Considering that
in 1980 Turkey's GDP per capita figure was $2500, not too bad at all.
And remember, our population is 66.5 million (vs 11.25 million in Greece),
so that makes the overall Turkey GDP some 445 billion $ vs. Greece GDP some
150 billion $. Turkey's GDP is comparable with Egypt + Syria + Pakistan.
: Greek GDP growth (1998*) 3,5%
: Turkish GDP growth (Q2 1999**) -2%
: *Greece measures GDP annually
: **Turkey measures GDP quarterly
Yes, 1999 was a veery bad year for Turkey financially. Ocalan captured
and tried, tourism ground to a halt thanks to European Union's bad press.
(I mean Germany + France + Britain's bad press).
They deliberately hurt Turkey from a tourist revenue point of view, and that
was payback for the boycott on Italian goods.
By the way, overall GDP growth for 1999 is expected to be not -8% as you are
trying to imply (by misleading) but rather very close to zero. If there
was no earthquake, the figure would have been positive.
Check the link below to see overall GDP growth for all OECD countries
for the period 1990-1998:
http://www.oecd.org/publications/figures/e_78_oifgraph_gdp_growth.pdf
Turkey is 4th with an average growth of 4.4%. Ireland=7.3 (wow),
Korea=5.3, and Luxembourg=4.8 . Turkey's economy now, is bigger
than that of Thailand (the 5th asian tiger), 5 years ago, this would
have sounded impossible. Do not count Luxembourg here, because it is
too small, you can see Turkey is in the top three (in GDP growth) in OECD.
Now they are deliberately mocking Greek history (by counting it as
anti-european), that is because they want to make it clear to Greece who is
the boss and who has the big bucks.... and also that Greece is the
Christian Orthodox, Byzantium, hence the misfit member of EU (i.e. stepchild).
But THIS KIND (i.e. insult to history) of looking down is not deserved by
anyone, especially Greece.
Check the CIA world factbook though, you will see that what I said in
the summer of 1998 (in our conversations) is still holding true. Back when we
were talking Turkey's GDP was 379billion $ now as of end of 1998 it is $425++
billion $. The general average growth is positive in the long run.
On top of that we had the earthquake (icing on the cake). I suppose
that makes you very happy ??
: In other words when compared to Greece, Turkey is in a very bad shape, which
: has even worsened since the recent earthquake.
: Phalanx
Nope, Turkey is Turkey as usual. The earthquake was a disaster, yes, but
it was totally uncalled for and struck near metropolitan areas. You are
making it look like the earthquake is part of the Turkish economic management!!
By the way, why did you change your name to Phalanx ??
See you later.
Emre
Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier
There is a bishop in the Orthodox church "of" Albania named John Belushi as well.
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bioengineer-Financier, NYC
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian http://WWW.Dorsai.Org/~vjp2
vjp2@{MCIMail.Com|CompuServe.Com|Dorsai.Org}
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[DQ2K: Make the Murky Clown Frown!]
BARIS CIVELEK
<7vq69i$j7b$1...@netnews.upenn.edu> <802vb0$l2t$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>:
Distribution:
Naber, hocam? Bu adamla ugrasmaktan hic bikmiyorsun goruyorum.... Abi,
bu kadar "ego-boost" yeter, sepet kafali adamlari uc-bec-on defa mantik
ile harcarsin, ben nasil kardesimi satranc'ta devamli yeniyorsam. Fakat
bir fark var, kardesim insallah akillanip sivri zekali delikanli olacak,
bu hiyarda fazla umit yok... Neyse, Ataturke hakaret etmek ya da dine
saldirmakla meskul degilsin'ya...tebrikler, cogu insandan iyisin...
PHALANX (phala...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Emre Ucok wrote in message
: >* Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
: >Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
: reference.
: Greek GDP per capita $13,100. Turkish GDP per capita $6,000
: Greek GDP growth (1998*) 3,5%
: Turkish GDP growth (Q2 1999**) -2%
: *Greece measures GDP annually
: **Turkey measures GDP quarterly
: In other words when compared to Greece, Turkey is in a very bad shape, which
: has even worsened since the recent earthquake.
: Phalanx
: >
: >Regards,
: >
: >Emre
Emre Ucok
Iyidir Baris! Sen nasilsin yahu ? Bu sene senior musun yoksa junior mu hoca ?
My objective in writing these posts is to correct some people's mistakes
when they bullshit too much. That is all. Hadi gorusuruz abicim.
BARIS CIVELEK (bar...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu) wrote:
: Naber, hocam? Bu adamla ugrasmaktan hic bikmiyorsun goruyorum.... Abi,
: bu kadar "ego-boost" yeter, sepet kafali adamlari uc-bec-on defa mantik
: ile harcarsin, ben nasil kardesimi satranc'ta devamli yeniyorsam. Fakat
: bir fark var, kardesim insallah akillanip sivri zekali delikanli olacak,
: bu hiyarda fazla umit yok... Neyse, Ataturke hakaret etmek ya da dine
: saldirmakla meskul degilsin'ya...tebrikler, cogu insandan iyisin...
: PHALANX (phala...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: : Emre Ucok wrote in message
: : >* Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
: : >Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
: : reference.
: : Greek GDP per capita $13,100. Turkish GDP per capita $6,000
: : Greek GDP growth (1998*) 3,5%
: : Turkish GDP growth (Q2 1999**) -2%
: : *Greece measures GDP annually
: : **Turkey measures GDP quarterly
: : In other words when compared to Greece, Turkey is in a very bad shape, which
: : has even worsened since the recent earthquake.
: : Phalanx
: : >
: : >Regards,
: : >
: : >Emre
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Emre Ucok, tel: (215)417-5540, e-mail: uc...@seas.upenn.edu
Master of Science Candidate, Computer and Information Science
Class of December '99, University of Pennsylvania
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that the Global
Positioning Satellite programs will not have a "Year 2000" problem. The
bad news is that GPS system time will roll over at midnight August 21-22,
132 days before the turn of the century. On August 22, 1999, unless repaired
many or all GPS receivers will claim that it is January 6, 1980 and August 23
will become January 7 and so on... I would expect that some manufacturers
have already solved the problem but many have not." - Joe Gwinn, Raytheon
PHALANX
Emre Ucok wrote in message <803i0s$608$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>Hey Man why did you start a new thread... Anyways, back to
>our usual business... where were we left ??? :-)
>
>: Emre Ucok wrote in message
>: >* Turkey is not as small as Greece. Turkish total GDP=$425 billion,
>: >Greek total GDP=$130 billion, Spain total GDP=$600 billion for your
>: reference.
>: Greek GDP per capita $13,100. Turkish GDP per capita $6,000
>
>
>http://www.oecd.org/publications/figures/e_79_oifgraph_gdp_capita.pdf
>
>Yes, I can hear you saying... "Ohh! Greece is soooo good and Turkey is
>soooo baaad",
It has nothing to do with "good" or "bad", it is simply indicative of the
economic standing of our two respective countries.
> but I decided to let you see this link anyway, because
>unlike you, I am not in the business of discrediting and mud-slinging.
Sure, remind me to award you with the Ipekci "award".
>
>Greece's 14,463 is pretty good !!
Pretty good when compared to a developping economy, but it is below the EU
average. I would say anything above $20,000 per capita is acceptable,
something feasible for the Greek economy within the next 10 -15 years.
>6720 is not so bad either.
Some goat sheperd from Cameroon would agree with you on that 100%. Not bad
at all, man. Ugh ugh! With a figure like that OTOH, you will only pass
through the EU door only as toilet cleaners or as doner kebab vendors. :-)
Seriously now, next time you accuse the Greeks for letting you out of the
EU, you should have a look at your economy and at your human rights record,
the stuff the other Europeans are concerned with. I can assure that even if
Greece became the stauncher advocate for the Turkish membership in the EU,
the other 14 members would stop hiding from behind us, and veto you.
>Considering that
>in 1980 Turkey's GDP per capita figure was $2500, not too bad at all.
Yes, you are in a less shitier standing now.
>And remember, our population is 66.5 million (vs 11.25 million in Greece),
>so that makes the overall Turkey GDP some 445 billion $ vs. Greece GDP some
>150 billion $. Turkey's GDP is comparable with Egypt + Syria + Pakistan.
Egypt, Syria and Pakistan are certainly not the ideal industrially advaced
states, for one to compare himself with. But again, this is a Turk talking.
>
>: Greek GDP growth (1998*) 3,5%
>: Turkish GDP growth (Q2 1999**) -2%
>: *Greece measures GDP annually
>: **Turkey measures GDP quarterly
>
>Yes, 1999 was a veery bad year for Turkey financially. Ocalan captured
>and tried, tourism ground to a halt thanks to European Union's bad press.
>(I mean Germany + France + Britain's bad press).
Sure, blame the Europeans for your shortcomings. Like it is our fault that
you suppress a large portion of your population who have no other means of
promoting their rights, other than "terrorism".
>
>They deliberately hurt Turkey from a tourist revenue point of view, and
that
>was payback for the boycott on Italian goods.
Imagine yourself as a German tourist, in the midst of the Ocalan trial,
would you choose Turkey as a vacation destination or you 'd rather go to
peaceful Portugal? Let us not kid ourselves here, Turkey is a pretty unsafe
country. I would never set foot there even if they paid me.
>
>By the way, overall GDP growth for 1999 is expected to be not -8% as you
are
>trying to imply (by misleading)
No, I never implied this BS, afterall I have a degree in Economics to make a
fool of my self by claiming the above. My opinion is that the Turkish GDP
will decrease by -2 or -3% by year's end.
>but rather very close to zero. If there
>was no earthquake, the figure would have been positive.
The -2% figure was derived from the Q2 of 1999, before the earhquake
incident. So, don't blame natural disasters for your incompetency. BTW, I
saw how the Turkish state responded to the earthquake situation and I find
it as an embarassment.
>
>Check the link below to see overall GDP growth for all OECD countries
>for the period 1990-1998:
>
>http://www.oecd.org/publications/figures/e_78_oifgraph_gdp_growth.pdf
>
>Turkey is 4th with an average growth of 4.4%. Ireland=7.3 (wow),
>Korea=5.3, and Luxembourg=4.8 . Turkey's economy now, is bigger
>than that of Thailand (the 5th asian tiger), 5 years ago, this would
>have sounded impossible. Do not count Luxembourg here, because it is
>too small, you can see Turkey is in the top three (in GDP growth) in OECD.
Turkey's economy has been on recession since 1996. During the previous
decade your economy was sky rocketing, thus explaining your good standing,
but all this has come to an abrupt end. Greece is expected to eclypse Turkey
within the next five years, both economically and militarily, if our two
countries continue performing the way they do now.
As a consequence, I oppose any reconciation with Turkey at this moment. This
would only benefit your side.
>
>Now they are deliberately mocking Greek history (by counting it as
>anti-european), that is because they want to make it clear to Greece who is
>the boss and who has the big bucks.... and also that Greece is the
>Christian Orthodox, Byzantium, hence the misfit member of EU (i.e.
stepchild).
Orthodoxy has been always considered by the West as oriental and
quasi-European. No need to describe where Muslim Turkey fits in all of this.
>But THIS KIND (i.e. insult to history) of looking down is not deserved by
>anyone, especially Greece.
All this beacuse they placed a Jew as the director of Europe's museum of
history. It is like placing an Armenian as a director of a Turkish history
museum. I am confident our historical prestige will be reinstated soon.
>
>Check the CIA world factbook though, you will see that what I said in
>the summer of 1998 (in our conversations) is still holding true. Back when
we
>were talking Turkey's GDP was 379billion $ now as of end of 1998 it is
$425++
>billion $. The general average growth is positive in the long run.
I don't believe the Turkish GDP grew from $379 to $425 billion in the
process of a year. We were looking at old data.
>
>On top of that we had the earthquake (icing on the cake). I suppose
>that makes you very happy ??
The death of innocent women and children is not a joyfull event, but I was
happy about the annihilation of the Golcuk naval base as well as for the
postponment of many of your armarment prorgams, thanks to the earthquake.
>
>: In other words when compared to Greece, Turkey is in a very bad shape,
which
>: has even worsened since the recent earthquake.
>: Phalanx
>
>Nope, Turkey is Turkey as usual.
I know, and similarly the Turks will never change their hostile attitude and
expansionist aspirations.
>The earthquake was a disaster, yes, but
>it was totally uncalled for and struck near metropolitan areas. You are
>making it look like the earthquake is part of the Turkish economic
management!!
No, I don't.
>By the way, why did you change your name to Phalanx ??
Because I felt like it. :-)
>See you later.
See you.
Costas
>
>Emre
>
Emre Ucok
: Pretty good when compared to a developping economy, but it is below the EU
: average. I would say anything above $20,000 per capita is acceptable,
: something feasible for the Greek economy within the next 10 -15 years.
15 years perhaps, if the core EU states (Germany + France etc.) keep up
the aid and if Greece can lower its per capita spending on weapons
($396 in Greece, $96 in Turkey). Otherwise, don't be so sure about $20,000++
But still, even 14,600 is very good.
: >6720 is not so bad either.
: Some goat sheperd from Cameroon would agree with you on that 100%. Not bad
: at all, man. Ugh ugh! With a figure like that OTOH, you will only pass
: through the EU door only as toilet cleaners or as doner kebab vendors. :-)
So no more camel jockeying then, now it's doner kebab (gyro) vending and
diner/grocery store ownership. We are up at the next step of evolution.
Maybe we'll do a friendly take over of the Greek diners in the EU and the U.S.
as they move on up the socio-economic "food chain" to better professions...
Where did you find Cameroon man ?!?! Where do you find all these countries.
You crack me up. $6720 is almost $7000 and you are still comparing us to
countries with GDP's below $2000.
: Seriously now, next time you accuse the Greeks for letting you out of the
: EU, you should have a look at your economy and at your human rights record,
: the stuff the other Europeans are concerned with. I can assure that even if
: Greece became the stauncher advocate for the Turkish membership in the EU,
: the other 14 members would stop hiding from behind us, and veto you.
Costas,
An average Turk never accuses Greece for letting us out of the EU. The
Turkish media does that to get ratings. Greece bashing (or Turkey bashing)
by the media is sometimes profitable. I agree with the second half of the
paragraph generally, but I don't agree that Germany and France are
not necessarily better countries than Turkey (remember Guillotine or the
concentration camps ???), they are just richer and more experienced
in Democratic tradition.
: >Considering that
: >in 1980 Turkey's GDP per capita figure was $2500, not too bad at all.
: Yes, you are in a less shitier standing now.
Much less shittier. Compare us to some countries who were at the same level
back then and now.
: Egypt, Syria and Pakistan are certainly not the ideal industrially advaced
: states, for one to compare himself with. But again, this is a Turk talking.
That was just for comparison. Here is another. Turkish GDP is roughly $440 Bill
Spanish GDP is roughly ($16,000*40million = $640 Billion). (From oecd)
: Sure, blame the Europeans for your shortcomings. Like it is our fault that
: you suppress a large portion of your population who have no other means of
: promoting their rights, other than "terrorism".
Of course, EU and Greek "encouragement" (Ocalan with Cypriot passpot) helps
too.
: >They deliberately hurt Turkey from a tourist revenue point of view, and
: >that was payback for the boycott on Italian goods.
: Imagine yourself as a German tourist, in the midst of the Ocalan trial,
: would you choose Turkey as a vacation destination or you 'd rather go to
: peaceful Portugal? Let us not kid ourselves here, Turkey is a pretty unsafe
: country. I would never set foot there even if they paid me.
An average lower middle class high-school educated German tourist (the kind
that for the most part comes to Turkey) will make their decisions mostly
based on what is in the European press. If you have a bunch of Kurds
advertising (threatening) on the BBC ("If you come to Turkey we will
shoot you") of course that would not be good for Turkish Tourism.
Some advertising the BBC is allowing.
: incident. So, don't blame natural disasters for your incompetency. BTW, I
: saw how the Turkish state responded to the earthquake situation and I find
: it as an embarassment.
It could have been much better w/ some better planning.
: Turkey's economy has been on recession since 1996. During the previous
: decade your economy was sky rocketing, thus explaining your good standing,
: but all this has come to an abrupt end. Greece is expected to eclypse Turkey
: within the next five years, both economically and militarily, if our two
: countries continue performing the way they do now.
Nope, wrong. Uneven growth, not recession:
1994 -6%
1995 7%
1996 6%
1997 8%
1998 3%
1999 -3% (from what you said)
These numbers are pretty accurate give or take 1 percent. So if you said
you have been on a recession ever since late 1997, maybe I would agree.
: As a consequence, I oppose any reconciation with Turkey at this moment. This
: would only benefit your side.
I suppose you got plans in the works for a showdown in 20-30 years. Well
let me tell you something. A strong economy is one thing, but you also need
to increase the number of Greeks from 10 million to at least 25 million.
Otherwise the operational capabilities of the Greek Armed forces will be
severely impaired as educated officers die in a long term war of attrition.
I realize that you guys want rebel Kurds to do the job for you by proxy,
but if you really want to take back Turkish west coast you will have to do
much better than just helping REBEL Kurds (not all of them are anti-Turkey).
: Orthodoxy has been always considered by the West as oriental and
: quasi-European. No need to describe where Muslim Turkey fits in all of this.
I suppose if we are muslim and un-European, and if you are quasi-European
and oriental you must be Turkey's gateway to Europe right ? right ???!
: >But THIS KIND (i.e. insult to history) of looking down is not deserved by
: >anyone, especially Greece.
: All this beacuse they placed a Jew as the director of Europe's museum of
: history. It is like placing an Armenian as a director of a Turkish history
: museum. I am confident our historical prestige will be reinstated soon.
I don't think it has anything to do with whether the director of the
museum is Jewish. This smells like a very (Franco+German+Scandinavian+
Northern Italian) decision and has nothing to do with Zionism or the middle
east, or the peace process.
: The death of innocent women and children is not a joyfull event, but I was
: happy about the annihilation of the Golcuk naval base as well as for the
: postponment of many of your armarment prorgams, thanks to the earthquake.
I see, it moved ahead the Greek timetable...
: I know, and similarly the Turks will never change their hostile attitude and
: expansionist aspirations.
Yeeeesss, all Turrrkkks are the only source of eeeevillll in this world,
they need to go to hell.
What can I say, I am born a bad seed. Eh!
Emre
Karpo
>
>What can I say, I am born a bad seed. Eh!
>
>Emre
>
Emre thanks for a great read, with humour, which is more
than I can say for Costas, who if he was Turkish and we have no proof to the
contary would be a Grey Wolf.
Greece and Turkey need to be friends not waste their time arguing,
the rest of the EU laughs at these scabbles and uses it to thair advantage.
Karpo
sp...@erols.com
Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier wrote:
> There is a bishop in the Orthodox church "of" Albania named John Belushi as well.
Vasos!
What are his cities? Is he in America or Albania?
PHALANX
Emre Ucok wrote in message <805d7m$mb0$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>
>: Pretty good when compared to a developping economy, but it is below the
EU
>: average. I would say anything above $20,000 per capita is acceptable,
>: something feasible for the Greek economy within the next 10 -15 years.
>
>15 years perhaps, if the core EU states (Germany + France etc.) keep up
>the aid and if Greece can lower its per capita spending on weapons
>($396 in Greece, $96 in Turkey).
I hope you are not implying that the EU is sponsoring our weapon acquisition
programs, although they are assisting us into the dvelopment of our defence
industry, as a result of the offsets from our weapon purchases.
Now, concerning our spending in the defence sector, due to our improved
economical performance, we are purchasing more weaponry than ever before and
this isn't about to change in the near future. National defence is priority
#1 especially when we have a country like Turkey as a neighbor.
> Otherwise, don't be so sure about $20,000++
>But still, even 14,600 is very good.
If you calculate the compounding GDP growth for the next 10-15 years, the
$20,000 GDP per capita figure is feasible.
>
>: >6720 is not so bad either.
>: Some goat sheperd from Cameroon would agree with you on that 100%. Not
bad
>: at all, man. Ugh ugh! With a figure like that OTOH, you will only pass
>: through the EU door only as toilet cleaners or as doner kebab vendors.
:-)
>
>So no more camel jockeying then,
Sorry, there are no deserts in Europe to host your camel-jockeys. A lot of
dirty German toilets though. :-)))
>now it's doner kebab (gyro) vending and
>diner/grocery store ownership. We are up at the next step of evolution.
>Maybe we'll do a friendly take over of the Greek diners in the EU and the
U.S.
>as they move on up the socio-economic "food chain" to better professions...
Last time I checked the Arabs were taking over the food business.
>
>Where did you find Cameroon man ?!?! Where do you find all these countries.
>You crack me up.
The other time you complained about relating you to the Sudanese and the
Bolivians... so I had to come up with a less offensive example. Hey! The
Cameroonese can kick your ass in soccer any time.
>$6720 is almost $7000 and you are still comparing us to
>countries with GDP's below $2000.
>
>: Seriously now, next time you accuse the Greeks for letting you out of the
>: EU, you should have a look at your economy and at your human rights
record,
>: the stuff the other Europeans are concerned with. I can assure that even
if
>: Greece became the stauncher advocate for the Turkish membership in the
EU,
>: the other 14 members would stop hiding from behind us, and veto you.
>
>Costas,
>
>An average Turk never accuses Greece for letting us out of the EU.
Those who don't, accuse us of terrorism. Paranoia is still the norm in
Turkey.
>The
>Turkish media does that to get ratings. Greece bashing (or Turkey bashing)
>by the media is sometimes profitable. I agree with the second half of the
>paragraph generally, but I don't agree that Germany and France are
>not necessarily better countries than Turkey (remember Guillotine or the
>concentration camps ???)
You are right, but they overcame their past and are now the crusaders of
human rights, although it might sound hyporitical. Turkey OTOH, does not
even recognize the Armenian genocide (the Germans did recognize their
crimes) and your current human rights record is typical or worse than that
of countries like China, Pakistan or Algeria. I personally don't give a fig,
but the rest of the Europeans are deeply concerned.
>, they are just richer and more experienced
>in Democratic tradition.
>
>: >Considering that
>: >in 1980 Turkey's GDP per capita figure was $2500, not too bad at all.
>: Yes, you are in a less shitier standing now.
>
>Much less shittier. Compare us to some countries who were at the same level
>back then and now.
>
>: Egypt, Syria and Pakistan are certainly not the ideal industrially
advaced
>: states, for one to compare himself with. But again, this is a Turk
talking.
>
>That was just for comparison. Here is another. Turkish GDP is roughly $440
Bill
>Spanish GDP is roughly ($16,000*40million = $640 Billion). (From oecd)
Do me a favor and don't compare yourselves with the Spanish, we are talking
about a quasi-industrialized country vs. your agricultural country with the
40% of your population in the agricultural sector. The Spanish design and
manufacture aircraft and you guys simly assemble them (see CASA and TUSAS).
>
>: Sure, blame the Europeans for your shortcomings. Like it is our fault
that
>: you suppress a large portion of your population who have no other means
of
>: promoting their rights, other than "terrorism".
>
>Of course, EU and Greek "encouragement" (Ocalan with Cypriot passpot) helps
>too.
If you didn't surpress and try to assimilate the Kurds by calling them
"mountain Turks" the PKK would have no reason to exist. The Turks would have
done the same if the PKK were fighting against the Greek Army. Let us not
kid ourselves.
>
>: >They deliberately hurt Turkey from a tourist revenue point of view, and
>: >that was payback for the boycott on Italian goods.
>: Imagine yourself as a German tourist, in the midst of the Ocalan trial,
>: would you choose Turkey as a vacation destination or you 'd rather go to
>: peaceful Portugal? Let us not kid ourselves here, Turkey is a pretty
unsafe
>: country. I would never set foot there even if they paid me.
>
>An average lower middle class high-school educated German tourist (the kind
>that for the most part comes to Turkey) will make their decisions mostly
>based on what is in the European press.
Are you accusing the Euro press of fabricating false terrorism stories? They
are just reporting the facts, and the fact remains that there are plently of
Communist, Islamist and Kurdish terrorist organizations operating in Turkey.
I for one would be cautious to travel to Turkey.
> If you have a bunch of Kurds
>advertising (threatening) on the BBC ("If you come to Turkey we will
>shoot you") of course that would not be good for Turkish Tourism.
>Some advertising the BBC is allowing.
Again, Turkey suffers from chronic terrorism, due to the heterogeneous
nature of your society and the suppressive policies of the Kemalist state.
This is the recipe for terrorism, Emre.
>
>
>: incident. So, don't blame natural disasters for your incompetency. BTW, I
>: saw how the Turkish state responded to the earthquake situation and I
find
>: it as an embarassment.
>
>It could have been much better w/ some better planning.
Whatever the case, you guys looked pretty bad in the eyes of the world, and
as very vulnerable as well. The myth of the "invisibility" of your Army
collapsed along with the building blocks in a matter of seconds.
>
>: Turkey's economy has been on recession since 1996. During the previous
>: decade your economy was sky rocketing, thus explaining your good
standing,
>: but all this has come to an abrupt end. Greece is expected to eclypse
Turkey
>: within the next five years, both economically and militarily, if our two
>: countries continue performing the way they do now.
>
>Nope, wrong. Uneven growth, not recession:
>
>1994 -6%
>1995 7%
>1996 6%
>1997 8%
>1998 3%
>1999 -3% (from what you said)
When you have finance ministers blowing their own heads off, it seems
something is going terribly wrong. I think this is going to be the greatest
recession since the establishment of the modern Turkey or one of the worse
recessions.
>
>These numbers are pretty accurate give or take 1 percent. So if you said
>you have been on a recession ever since late 1997, maybe I would agree.
>
>: As a consequence, I oppose any reconciation with Turkey at this moment.
This
>: would only benefit your side.
>
>I suppose you got plans in the works for a showdown in 20-30 years. Well
>let me tell you something. A strong economy is one thing, but you also need
>to increase the number of Greeks from 10 million to at least 25 million.
"Superior numbers, far from contributing everything, or even a substantial
part, to victory, may be actually contributing very little, depending on the
circumstances."
Carl Von Clausewitz, "On War", ch.8 Book 3.
According to Clausewitz these circumstances are terrain, economy of force,
moral, intelligence, strategy, etc.
The Turkish generals have also studied this brilliant Prussian, and know,
that the odds of a victory are high for the Greek side.
>Otherwise the operational capabilities of the Greek Armed forces will be
>severely impaired as educated officers die in a long term war of attrition.
We recognize that the longer the war the better for Turkey who can sustain
large number of casualties, but neither Thrace nor the Aegean are suitable
for wide battlefield operations, narrowing the front or even allowing the
Greeks to infiltrate behind enemy lines and place Instabul within artillery
range. Geography and terrain (with the exception of Cyprus) is certainly on
our side. IMO, the loss of Cyprus will be compensated by a victory in Thrace
and the annihilation of the TN in the Aegean.
>I realize that you guys want rebel Kurds to do the job for you by proxy,
>but if you really want to take back Turkish west coast you will have to do
>much better than just helping REBEL Kurds (not all of them are
anti-Turkey).
The Kurds are only a detail, you forgot to mention Armenia, Russia, Syria
and Iran who won't remain idle. Your problem is that you are surrounded by
hostiles from all corners. Although I believe, Syria will be neutralized
easily by Israel.
>: Orthodoxy has been always considered by the West as oriental and
>: quasi-European. No need to describe where Muslim Turkey fits in all of
this.
>
>I suppose if we are muslim and un-European, and if you are quasi-European
>and oriental you must be Turkey's gateway to Europe right ? right ???!
Forget about religion and culture and look at the map. Imagine what would
happen to you if Greece closed its border, national waters and airspace to
Turkey. Similar to what you are doing to Armenia.
>
>: >But THIS KIND (i.e. insult to history) of looking down is not deserved
by
>: >anyone, especially Greece.
>: All this beacuse they placed a Jew as the director of Europe's museum of
>: history. It is like placing an Armenian as a director of a Turkish
history
>: museum. I am confident our historical prestige will be reinstated soon.
>
>I don't think it has anything to do with whether the director of the
>museum is Jewish. This smells like a very (Franco+German+Scandinavian+
>Northern Italian) decision and has nothing to do with Zionism or the middle
>east, or the peace process.
I don't know the motives behind this action, all I know is since this Jew
took over we started having problems.
>
>: The death of innocent women and children is not a joyfull event, but I
was
>: happy about the annihilation of the Golcuk naval base as well as for the
>: postponment of many of your armarment prorgams, thanks to the earthquake.
>
>I see, it moved ahead the Greek timetable...
>
>: I know, and similarly the Turks will never change their hostile attitude
and
>: expansionist aspirations.
>
>Yeeeesss, all Turrrkkks are the only source of eeeevillll in this world,
>they need to go to hell.
Don't be so melodramatic. I didn't use the above childish terminology. I am
referring to your behavior since 1974, a policy of sheer aggression. Of
course you will deny this and counter-claim that we are the aggressors. But
this is our view, right or wrong.
>
>What can I say, I am born a bad seed. Eh!
You are a Tourkosporos, indeed. :-)
Costas
>
>Emre
>
PHALANX
Emre Ucok wrote in message <805d7m$mb0$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>
>I realize that you guys want rebel Kurds to do the job for you by proxy,
>but if you really want to take back Turkish west coast you will have to do
>much better than just helping REBEL Kurds (not all of them are
anti-Turkey).
I missed this part. Militarily speaking, the seizure of the west Minor Asia
coast by Greek troops is impossible and we both know it. The presence of the
Ege Ordu (4th Army) there, serves offensive purposes only. So my claims for
Turkish aggression are not so unsubstantiated afterall.
Costas
vasif@fisav
own without any help. Are you going soft by any chance?
vasif@fisav
PHALANX wrote in message <805t0g$dis$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Emre Ucok
: Emre thanks for a great read, with humour, which is more
: than I can say for Costas, who if he was Turkish and we have no proof to the
: contary would be a Grey Wolf.
Thanks Karpo for the encouragement. I have to put humor in what I write
because otherwise I will go nuts will all the mudslinging.
: Greece and Turkey need to be friends not waste their time arguing,
: the rest of the EU laughs at these scabbles and uses it to thair advantage.
I could not agree more.
More than friends. The following needs to happen, otherwise these useless
Greece vs. Turkey discussions will go on forever, Greece will develop and
Turkey will develop (at a slower rate), but neither of the two will
amount to much compared to Germany and France. Turkey will always be an
outcast and Greece will always be that "anti-European smaller state" EU member.
1) Turkey needs to become a full member of the EU. The E.U. should stop
becoming a "Holy Roman Empire Plus" project.
2) After this, small numbers of Greeks should be allowed to resettle in Thrace
and selected parts of Aegean/TRNC etc. as a token of good will.
3) Greece + Turkey + Israel should sign very complicated economic and
military agreements, solving their miscellaneous odds and ends issues
once and for all. (hence this forms the core of the East Roman Empire
or Byzantine or Ottoman, whatever you want to call it).
4) Greece + Turkey + Israel should get Britain (who does not like the
continental European countries that much either) to join up in
economic/political development projects of the Balkan area.
5) The combined influence of Greek + British + Israeli lobbies in the U.S.
will ensure that the U.S. gives us a blessing in our development projects.
This will ensure that Greece and Turkey reap the maximum economic benefit
(with some piece of the cake going to Britain and Israel) from such a
new political arrangement. It will also limit German power in the
Balkans (British power will be somewhat introduced though, but it's OK).
6) And so on...
Wishful thinking.
Mark Anagnostou
Emre Ucok <uc...@red.seas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:808oeo$js5$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
If such a thing were to occur,it would never last.Their is too much bad
blood between greeks and Turks.And for the most part the current generation
are full of people who hate the other side tremendously.
But it would be to the good of both peoples if such a thing could occur,as
being allied to these Europeans isnt all its cracked up to be.
Going back through history i think Greece has suffered more from our western
neighbors then we have from the Turks.The Byzantine empire only fell through
a combination of our own corruption and the 4th crusade.If it wasnt the
Turks to topple us it would have been someone else.And the Turks didnt
really treat us that bad.Greek was actually an official language in the
ottoman empire.It was only when we revolted that the massacres occured.On
both sides.
Cheers,
Mark.
amymay20...@gmail.com
The Greeks(Hellenes/Rhomioi) have many artistic,scientific, technological glories not only in the classical antiquity, but also in the Hellenistic period(like Heron of Alexandria, “Antikythera mehanism” , Hipparch, Galen, Plutarch, Epictetus etc.) .
In fact, Hellenistic science , philosophy and arts was much more advanced than the “classical” past.
In the Hellenistic age, Hellenistic scientists almost reached the point of the first scientific /industrial revolution predating the Industrial Revolution in the UK by several millennia.
The Greeks spread Christianity to the four corners of the world.
In the Medieval period of Rhomania/Greek Byzantine Empire, the Greeks are accredited with achievements such as Anthemius,Isidorus,Leo the philosopher, invention of ”greek fire” , Gregory Palamas, Pletho etc.)
*the Greeks also jump started the Renaissance (Erotocritos poem by Vikentios Kornaros, Georgios Hortatzis and many others. )
Google:
* Greek scholars in the Renaissance - Wikipedia
There were more Greek scholars/scientists/philosophers/poets during the ancient times, the Hellenistic period, during the Rhomeic(Byzantine Empire), during the Ottoman Empire and during Renaissance and beyond than any other ethnicity.
The Ottoman Empire was a continuation of the Greek Byzantine Empire but under an Islamic veneer.
It was under the Ottomans that the Greek Orthodox Church became the largest property owner obtaining more property outside of the modern borders of Greece.
* Greeks are not preoccupied with the past, because modern Greeks also have many cultural,philosophic,scientific,aritistic etc. achievements.
* Statistically in regards to their population), Greeks are overrepresented in many scientific fields and in scientific publications to this day.
The average Greek is also more educated that the average citizen in the developed countries(accoridng to OECD).
(Google OECD.)
All this, usually, with a much smaller budget set aside for state education and research.
The International impact of Greek scientific publications is rising steadily
Greek professors a force to be reckoned with in US academia,
Google: Apostolos Lakasas
There are countless (very important ) Greek scholars/scientists/artists etc over representing the West today.
Google; Politicians like Kapodistrias and Venizelos.
Google: Elefthérios Venizélos.
Google: Sefaris , nobel in literature
Google: Odysseas Elytis
Google: Kazantzakis, author of “Zorba the Greek” ,“Freedom or Death”(Captain Michalis) and “Temptations of Christ” .
He was nominated for a nobel prize.
Google: Nikos Kazantzakis
Google: Konstantinos Karatheodory , world famous mathematician .
Google: Constantin Carathéodory
Google: Papanikolaou, inventor of Test Pap for early cancer detection in the female womb
Google: Dimitris Nanopoulos , one of the most cited physics researchers in the world.
Google: Ion Xenakis , composer and music theorist
Google: Maria Callas
Google: Vangelis , one of most famous composers in the word
* Of course, the enemy of good is better and the greek system (educational system/social chances , good jobs etc)has to be improoved in order to help/produce more talents. For their own benifit, for the benefit of Greece and moreover for the benefit of the whole world/humanity.
We also became the very First Nation state in Europe.
We also sought to recapture the entire Near East had it not been for the Western Powers sabotaging the endeavor by arming the Muslims.
The Greeks turned the tide during WW2 by resisting enemy occupation by half a year.
Superpower France surrendered in a week.
We even placed a Greek American in the White House.
And Greece still has the 14th largest economy and 4th largest and most sophisticated military in the EU spending 6.5 billion dollars a year for its defense...not even North Korea, which has the biggest army in the world, spends that much on defense.
In 2009, almost 28 percent of its then €10 billion budget was spent on military equipment—higher than in the United States or any other NATO country.
Greece’s defense budget was 3.2 percent of gross domestic product.
This means that Greece is the second biggest defense spender among the 27 NATO countries in relation to its GDP.
Of the 136,000 personnel, 90,000 are soldiers. That’s a huge army for a country of under 11 million people. Last year alone, with equipment expenses down, personnel costs accounted for 73.9 percent of the defense budget.
“The Greek economic crisis” is an ingenious scam designed to keep the alien, hostile, high birth rate Third Worlders from permanently settling in Greece.”
Pure geniuses.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_85966.htm?mode=pressrelease
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece