Names
Erland Sommarskog
>: First the USSR attacked Finland in 1939, with the same intentions
>: as they had in the Baltics, but they only managed to grab some
>: pieces. When Germany attacked USSR, Finland took the oppurtunity
>: to get those areas back. Once they had success, maybe they got
>: too far. That is not for me to judge.
>
>Yes. But the question was: Was Karelia used as an excuse for the
>invasion in either of these instances?
The basic reason for the invasion was to get back the lands lost
in the first war, just two years before. A succesful invading
force always tend to go too far, but it seems conceivable that
had the land in question been Slavic, it would have been less
appealing to continue.
>Sure. That is the whole point. The "Macedonian" minority in
>Makedonia (Greek) roughly number 4,000 people in 1,500,000 Greek
Or 50.000 as other, reliable, sources say. I thought that Encyclopedica
Brittanica was one of them, but last time I said so, it was pointed
out to me that EB says 180.000, which seems a tad high to me.
>: Don't think very many Azeris in Azerbajian would be interested.
>: Then if not before, Lezgin separatism would be a reality.
>
>I am not sure that i follow. What is Lezgin.
Welcome to Caucasus where there are as many people as there are in
the rest of the world! The Lezgins are a people, or a group of related
peoples, that live in northern Azerbaijan and in Daghestan, one of
the autonomous republics. There are calls for Lezgin autonomy in Azer-
baijan already today.
>Given the fact that 3 times in the modern Balkan history invasions
>and plans for Makedonia (Greek) were supported by the same arguments
>(Communists just prior to 2nd world war, Bulgarians during 2nd world war,
>and Tito after 2nd world war), is it surprising that Greece has reasons to
>be worried about the whole issue?
Your worry for a small, tiny, hardly armed country makes you look
ridiculous.
>Therefore, FYROM's decision to name itself after a region in Greece,
>it is a destabilizing act.
No it is not. But Greece's stupid name game is. Don't blame someone
else for you the misery you are the cause to yourself.
--
Erland Sommarskog, som...@enea.se, Stockholm
--
Erland Sommarskog, som...@enea.se, Stockholm
Steven Kalcanides
a tiny little country now, but what happpens in lets say maybe 50 years from
now when they are not so harless,and people forget about the truth about the
real Macedonia. The same way now that you think you are Macedonians, just
becauce Tito remaned your region, and rewrote your history books you
really believe it.
If it just a name why do you a small little harless country insist on
keeping that name, and why do you a small little harless country
provocate Greece by adopting a flag with the simble of the Star of Vergina.
You were just born a new small tiny harmless Republic, you could have
adopted a number of names and simbles that described you mixture of
ethnic backgrounds. But instead decide on provocting Greece,If you do
this now that you are so small and ting and harless what will you do when
you are not so ting and harless.
The Name Macedonia was always associated with the Greeks and was always
Greek, not slavic or bulgarian.
Steven Kalcanides
>som...@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>this now that you are so small and tiny and harmless what will you do when
>you are not so tiny and harmless.
valk...@mit.edu
: Nicholas Valkanas (valk...@mit.edu) writes:
: >Sure. That is the whole point. The "Macedonian" minority in
: >Makedonia (Greek) roughly number 4,000 people in 1,500,000 Greek
: Or 50.000 as other, reliable, sources say. I thought that Encyclopedica
: Brittanica was one of them, but last time I said so, it was pointed
: out to me that EB says 180.000, which seems a tad high to me.
What are those sources? In the current Euroelections they got only
4,000 votes (according to the results that I have), you said smt
about 7,000 votes. How do 50,000 people give you 7,000 votes?
Brittanica has a major flaw like every encyclopedia. It tries
to tackle everything, analyzing in depth very little and not being current
with the latest research. No scientist looks to an encyclopedia for
answers. Do you thing they contact their own census in Greece?
: >Given the fact that 3 times in the modern Balkan history invasions
: >and plans for Makedonia (Greek) were supported by the same arguments
: >(Communists just prior to 2nd world war, Bulgarians during 2nd world war,
: >and Tito after 2nd world war), is it surprising that Greece has reasons to
: >be worried about the whole issue?
: Your worry for a small, tiny, hardly armed country makes you look
: ridiculous.
You fail to understand that it is not the country that worries us. It is
the ideology. Unless stopped when it is new and young, it will be picked
up by more powerfull countries, especially if it is proven succesful.
Tomorrow FYROM could break up, or unite in a larger confederacy,
multiplying the problem.
Attacking us ethnically (like we are not Hellenes, or ancient Greeks
were not) attacks our own identity, and that is automatic war.
The only reason we didn't invade FYROM when Milocevic asked us to,
is that we have no desire to do so. But our patience is
running out and when all alternatives are exhausted, we will
invade, make no mistake. And if our government won't do it
we will topple it first.
Finally, since when being small, tiny gives the right to abuse other
countries? On the contrary, if you are small, you should be more
carefull of your statements. This is a question of justice, not
humanity.
Lastly the "hardly armed" argument is for laughs. Israel was created in
1948 without any army at all, just the power of the minority movement
abroad and historical claims about the land.
: >Therefore, FYROM's decision to name itself after a region in Greece,
: >it is a destabilizing act.
: No it is not.
Interesting, after 3 mails, that we keep analyzing *your* examples
of similarly named regions, without looking at all at cases like
Korea, Vietnam, Yemen, Germany, Ireland etc... which *we* found
every one to be destabilized (except Luxemburg that we didn't
discuss) when we reach the conclusion by these case studies,
namely that similarly named regions/countries are unstable,
you suddenly put a one-word response despite all the prior
arguments "No it is not". And you don't bother to
justify it.
I thought you could discuss responsibly. Apparently not.
: But Greece's stupid name game is. Don't blame someone
: else for you the misery you are the cause to yourself.
Do you always resort to statements when you are loosing the
argument?
: --
: Erland Sommarskog, som...@enea.se, Stockholm
--
*********************************************
* *
* Nicholas Valkanas (Nikos Balkavas) *
* valk...@MIT.EDU *
* *
*********************************************
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-- Procter & Gamble's "Decision Earth" free school curriculum
kapetanakis emmanouil
Erland Sommarskog <som...@enea.se> wrote:
>Or 50.000 as other, reliable, sources say. I thought that Encyclopedica
>Brittanica was one of them, but last time I said so, it was pointed
>out to me that EB says 180.000, which seems a tad high to me.
well in the recent parlimentary elections their party got 6.000 votes, so the
80.000 either died off, moved to yugoslavia or are greek or consider
themsels greek, by will. so be quiet mathematics and the pluralistic
democratic system proves you wrong.
>Your worry for a small, tiny, hardly armed country makes you look
>ridiculous.
yes when they have the backing up of a bigger stronger imperialistic
country like turkey. why is turkey arming that poor small weak army. to
make it a big strong army and at the end help fyrom invade greece. you
know the senario fyrom invades greece to liberate the 80.000 minority
which again is small compared to the 2.000.000 greeks ( thats why they
claim that there are 1 million minority ) and turkey comes to fyroms aid
by invading the ah so nice agean islands, thrace and cyprous. greece is
overwelmd and losses macedonia to fyrom and thrace, cyhprus and the
islands to turkey. that is what we are trying to stop. and a name change
will stop it because without the name they have no cause, i said cause not
will because they will still want to take our macedonia, to start a war,
and if they do then the war will be unjustified and the big powers and the
un will have to step in an stop them.
>Erland Sommarskog, som...@enea.se, Stockholm
look erland we know you have already made up your mind for you we are
wrong and fyrom is right, but cant you at least agnolege us the right to
be concerned. i bet you have read the things the imro and at some point of
time some fyromian politicians have claimed. they want our land, why
shouldn't we be warry. and why should we also let them take even a part of
our history ? why should we grant them direct decendence from alexander
even though it is historicaly imposible for such a thing to occur.
emmanouil
--
______________________________________________________________________________
You have read a letter from Emmanouil (Manos) Kapetanakis from Washington D.C.
E-mail address: Kape...@gwis.circ.gwu.edu