Arnie and the socialists
Watson & Parisi
http://www.zeit.de/2004/37/schwarzenegger_bush
(in German)
By Florian Klenk for ZEIT.de
It was a time when Arnold Schwarzenegger was still a poor youth from
Steiermark. He lifted weights and dreamed of being the strongest man in the
world. He dreamed not only during the night, he says it was also his
daydream. In 1968 the muscleman finally came to America. In Austria he is
admired for the subsequent course of his career. A football stadium in Graz
has already been named after him during his lifetime.
But now many of his former countrymen are wondering about the "oak from
Steiermark". Because last Monday at the Republican party convention the
actor and now Republican governor of California gave a speech praising
George Bush. That would not have been so bad, but suddenly he revealed to
the rapt delegates the true reason for his flight from Austria: the
socialists.
The socialists? Now, first there were the Soviets, who along with the other
Allies had freed the country from the Nazis, who occupied it for ten years
(until 1955), and who during that time terrorized the populace. The young
Arnold was afraid of them: "I saw communists with my own eyes. I still
remember the fear we felt when we entered the Soviet sector. Don't look into
their eyes, people used to say to us. It was a common belief that the
Soviets could pull a man from his car and drag him off to be a slave laborer
in the Soviet Union."
The Republicans applauded and Arnold continued: "After the Russians had
withdrawn, I saw how Austria became a socialist country. Don't misunderstand
me. I love Austria, and I love the Austrians." But faced with the
socialists, who now had the country in their grip, he had to leave.
Strange. When Arnold Schwarzenegger left Austria during the sixties, the
Second Republic had never yet experienced the election of a socialist
chancellor. On the contrary: Upright conservative heads of state led their
regiment from the Viennese Ballhausplatz. From 1945 to 1970, the
conservative Christian-Social People's Party (ÖVP) was in control. From
their ranks came chancellors Leopold Figl, Julius Raab, Alfons Gorbach and
Josef Klaus. Yes, the black party (the ÖVP) ruled the country
proportionately with the Social Democrats, they formed a social partnership
with them, a sort of dual government. Also the country, which thought of
itself as a victim of the Nazis, was plagued by authoritarianism, so in that
Arnold is right. But during this time Austria was not "socialist." And the
comrades of the KPÖ (Communist Party of Austria) languished in
insignificance.
The Austrians felt the first turning point, the first dismantling of
authoritarianism, during the seventies. The government solely of the black
party was voted out, the children of workers got free school books and for
the first time were able to attend without cost the universities that had
previously been dominated by the middle class. After a legal reform,
husbands were no longer the head of the family, and in the jails people were
no longer kept in darkened cells. It was not the conservatives who let in
this breath of fresh air; instead it was Bruno Kreisky. A socialist.
Maybe someone could explain all this to Arnold Schwarzenegger before the
talks with George Bush again. Apparently Bush already has enough problems
understanding the world.
C.Brady
wrote:
>From Die Zeit:
>
>http://www.zeit.de/2004/37/schwarzenegger_bush
>(in German)
>
>By Florian Klenk for ZEIT.de
>
>It was a time when Arnold Schwarzenegger was still a poor youth from
>Steiermark. He lifted weights and dreamed of being the strongest man in the
>world. He dreamed not only during the night, he says it was also his
>daydream. In 1968 the muscleman finally came to America. In Austria he is
>admired for the subsequent course of his career. A football stadium in Graz
>has already been named after him during his lifetime.
>
>But now many of his former countrymen are wondering about the "oak from
>Steiermark". Because last Monday at the Republican party convention the
>actor and now Republican governor of California gave a speech praising
>George Bush. That would not have been so bad, but suddenly he revealed to
>the rapt delegates the true reason for his flight from Austria: the
>socialists.
I watched Arnold's speech on MSNBC. After his speech, one of the
commentators, Chris Mathew, expressed surprise at Arnold's popularity
amongst the American public, considering he (Arnold) speaks with a
German accent. Chris Mathew further explained that Arnold is aware of
the accent dilemma, and that Arnold has elected to deal with his
predicament by interjecting some self-deprecating humor when speaking
in public, referring to his accent as the Nazi-accent.
There were several other commentators on the panel when Mathew made
that statement. Everyone just laughed and thought it was oh so funny….
I guess if Arnold wants to appeal to the American public, he has to
resort to crude rhetoric, knowing it will resonate with the populace
at large.
God bless America,
C.B.
Watson & Parisi
news:87rfj056dtt7t85rj...@4ax.com...
[...]
> I guess if Arnold wants to appeal to the American public, he has to
> resort to crude rhetoric, knowing it will resonate with the populace
> at large.
>
> God bless America
Yes, but let's be a little more discriminating. This wasn't just any crowd,
it was a crowd of Republican delegates, which is to say of staunch
conservatives, including their supporters watching at home. Rambling on in a
totally uninformed way about "the socialists" and the evil they do in the
world would never fly, for instance, in a meeting of the American Civil
Liberties Union or the Americans for Democratic Action. Arnie knew his
audience, and he played them like a violin. I never understood why he was a
Republican in the first place, since he publicly disagrees with the party on
so many issues that are important to them. But after this speech, I have
lost any residual respect I ever had for the man.
Robert.
inge
>
> Arnie knew his
> audience, and he played them like a violin. I never understood why he was a
> Republican in the first place, since he publicly disagrees with the party on
> so many issues that are important to them. But after this speech, I have
> lost any residual respect I ever had for the man.
So, the alternatives are
a) steroids can damage your memory
b) Schwarzenegger knows how to perform for the audience. At least for
the kind of audience that walked into a Schwarzenegger movie.
It comes down - again - to, is he stupid or is he lying? And with
Schwarzenegger, other than with some other so-called conservatives (who
are about as conservative as Stalin was liberal, but that's another
rant), I'm pretty sure that he's not stupid.
inge
--
It is easier to stay out than get out.
- Mark Twain
===
<http://home.foni.net/~lyorn> -- Stories, RPG & stuff.
===
To send me priority mail, replace 'wildwusel' with 'lyorn'.
Watson & Parisi
> Watson & Parisi wrote:
> >
> > Arnie knew his
> > audience, and he played them like a violin. I never understood why he
was a
> > Republican in the first place, since he publicly disagrees with the
party on
> > so many issues that are important to them. But after this speech, I have
> > lost any residual respect I ever had for the man.
>
> So, the alternatives are
>
> a) steroids can damage your memory
> b) Schwarzenegger knows how to perform for the audience. At least for
> the kind of audience that walked into a Schwarzenegger movie.
>
> It comes down - again - to, is he stupid or is he lying? And with
> Schwarzenegger, other than with some other so-called conservatives (who
> are about as conservative as Stalin was liberal, but that's another
> rant), I'm pretty sure that he's not stupid.
I agree with you, but the fact that he debased his own intelligence and
integrity in order to pander to the worst aspect of a certain simplistic,
provincial mindset is unforgivable. Hey, maybe he's a true Republican after
all.
Robert.
C.Brady
wrote:
>"C.Brady" <ch.b...@c0mcast.net> wrote in message
>news:87rfj056dtt7t85rj...@4ax.com...
>[...]
>> I guess if Arnold wants to appeal to the American public, he has to
>> resort to crude rhetoric, knowing it will resonate with the populace
>> at large.
>>
>
>Yes, but let's be a little more discriminating. This wasn't just any crowd,
>it was a crowd of Republican delegates, which is to say of staunch
>conservatives, including their supporters watching at home.
I would not limit Schwarzenegger's popularity to staunch Republicans.
He has already shown that he can win in a Democratic-leaning state,
and as you know, the 'real' conservatives don't care for him.
In fact, the main asset to the Republican Party is Arnold's ability to
appeal to independent and swing voters.
Not unlike Ronald Reagan, Arnold's affable/yikes one-liners resonate
with an intellectual elite determinant to have a showdown between good
and evil. Both actors, (turned politicians) use/d emotional appeal to
patriotic fervor to inspire that which some of us consider the lowest
common denominator, e.g. nationalism.
>Rambling on in a totally uninformed way about "the socialists" and the evil they do in the
>world would never fly, for instance, in a meeting of the American Civil
>Liberties Union or the Americans for Democratic Action. Arnie knew his
>audience, and he played them like a violin.
Exactly! Not merely content to distance himself from Austria's past,
he now engages in a familiar US pastime of rewriting history. Unable
to separate reality from fiction, he has all the attributes necessary
for a successful career in American politics.
>I never understood why he was a Republican in the first place, since he
>ublicly disagrees with the party on so many issues that are important to
>them. But after this speech, I have lost any residual respect I ever had for the man.
I agree. What little respect I had for him as an emigrant was replaced
by total disgust.
BTW, you didn't address my original reply to your post. Perhaps a non
issue for you since you don't speak with a German accent.
However, as someone who does speak with a German accent, I was deeply
offended by Chris Matthew's statement. Had he made a similar statement
about Italian accent, e.g. Mafia, there would have been an uproar.
Christa
>
>Robert.
Watson & Parisi
> issue for you since you don't speak with a German accent.
> However, as someone who does speak with a German accent, I was deeply
> offended by Chris Matthew's statement. Had he made a similar statement
> about Italian accent, e.g. Mafia, there would have been an uproar.
I didn't comment on that part of your post because your point was obviously
well taken; the statement to which you referred was ridiculous and
offensive. But you said Chris Matthew was actually quoting a statement by
Arnold, so I suppose the other people on the panel thought that if anyone
could get away with such an outrageous comment, it could only be someone to
whom it applies. In other words, if anyone could jokingly equate all
Italians with the Mafia, it would have to be an Italian.
Robert.
Watson & Parisi
[...]
> BTW, you didn't address my original reply to your post. Perhaps a non
> issue for you since you don't speak with a German accent.
By the way, there is nothing more elegant and musical to me than English
spoken with a German accent.
Robert.
TR
> Second Republic had never yet experienced the election of a socialist
> chancellor.
So what. That doesn't mean that they hadn't won regional elections and
that their power wasn't on the increase. Since they did elect a chancellor
2 years after he left, they were probaly rising when he was there. Now
your writer has given examples of good things that they did, but he is
probably being very selective. In any case, Arnold may well have thought
that socialism is simply a step on the road to communism. And he wouldn't
be wrong in that regard. As European socialists have repeatedly shown,
there is no such place as too far to the left. There is no place where
Eurosocialists will say, "okay, we have gone far enough, let's stop".
http://thereactionary.home.mindspring.com/
Watson & Parisi
news:sCb_c.6962$w%6.1...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
By linking a society that has effective social programs with communism, you
embody exactly the type of American to whom Arnold ("Conan the Republican")
was pandering. I suppose that means you too must be a Republican.
Robert.
inge
>
>
> By the way, there is nothing more elegant and musical to me than English
> spoken with a German accent.
Oh my. Wish that I did. When I hear my collegues speaking English, I
cringe.
inge
> > that socialism is simply a step on the road to communism. And he wouldn't
> > be wrong in that regard. As European socialists have repeatedly shown,
> > there is no such place as too far to the left. There is no place where
> > Eurosocialists will say, "okay, we have gone far enough, let's stop".
>
> By linking a society that has effective social programs with communism, you
> embody exactly the type of American to whom Arnold ("Conan the Republican")
> was pandering. I suppose that means you too must be a Republican.
Hm... communism grew out of the excesses of Victorian capitalism, and
its appeal to workers with little left to lose scared the powers that
were enough to start implementing social programs and created a social
democratic movement willing to make deals instead of just finding
suitable lampposts and some rope. It seems that the wheel is turning
again.
E.F.Schelby
That's entirely contrarian to the stereotype! You may know the
Borges poem below, but I will post it anyway in case you do not.
Greetings,
E.
****
Jorge Luis Borges
--------------------------------
To the German language
The Spanish language is my destiny,
Francisco de Quevedo's bronze,
but in the marches of the night
musics more intimate grab me.
Some came by blood—
Shakepeare's voice and Holy Scripture—
others by generous hazard,
but you, sweet German tongue,
I chose and sought alone.
Vigil and grammar and
the jungle of declensions,
dictionaries that never get it right
precisely, brought me near you.
My nights were full of Virgil
I said; I could have said
Hölderlin and Angelus Silesius.
Heine gave me high nightingales;
Goethe tardy love
indulgent and mercenary;
Keller the rose of a hand
in the hand of a dead lover
who knows not if it be white or red.
You, tongue of Germany, are your masterpiece:
love in all your
compound voices, open
vowels, sounds allowing
Greek hexameter
and rumor of night in the forest.
You were mine. At the limit
of tired years, I espy you
far-off as algebra or moon.
Watson & Parisi
news:bgrjj09cqgq3poi1d...@4ax.com...
> That's entirely contrarian to the stereotype! You may know the
> Borges poem below, but I will post it anyway in case you do not.
I didn't; thanks. Maybe this paean will at least partially offset Mark
Twain's infamous remark about talking to his horses.
Robert.
wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
>>...you didn't address my original reply to your post. Perhaps a non
>> issue for you since you don't speak with a German accent...
> By the way, there is nothing more elegant and musical to me than
> English spoken with a German accent.
heh! You are *EVIL* !! <grin>
Germans are also infamous for "NOT Getting It"
(this kind of find sarcasm, that is... :)
--
/"\ ASCII... ._. ||--> EscapeCellHell.org (Consumers Union) <--
\ / on Usenet /v\ || If you're not pissed off at the world yet
X ANYTHING ELSE /( )\ || then you're just not paying attention.
/ \ IS BLOAT !! ^^ ^^ || --Kasey Chambers
wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
> to Robert
>>> In any case, Arnold may well have thought that socialism is simply a step
>>> will say, "okay, we have gone far enough, let's stop".
heh! yep, the (typical) result of American (Capitalist) indoctrination
(fed to you since elementary school, non-stop)...
Lord, forgive'em, because they *really* don't know any better...
(not smart enough to think themselves out of that brown McDonald's paper
bag they got born into). One should pity them, not flog them for it,
though. In a way, we are all born into some kind of "paperbag" or another,
and it's as much luck as 'personal achievement' (or anything else) to dig
oneself out of such limitations one gets born into...
>> By linking a society that has effective social programs with communism,
>> you embody exactly the type of American to whom "Conan the Republican"
>> was pandering. I suppose that means you too must be a Republican...
<chuckle> Repucrat or Demoblican, there's not a whole lot of difference...
Arnold decided to go into politics... here! And he's behaving/talking
(as he believes he must) to succeed... here! <spit>
The jury is out, as to what he will ultimately be known for "having achieved"
(or not) on the pages of political history, but clearly he's smart enough to
have understood what gets you elected into political office in California...
...and until he tires of it and holds no further such aspirations, it's
unlikely that we'll find out (that he'll tell) what he *really* thinks
(or thought) about it all...
>... communism grew out of the excesses of Victorian capitalism, and its
> appeal to workers with little left to lose scared the powers that were
> enough to start implementing social programs and created a social
> democratic movement willing to make deals instead of just finding
> suitable lampposts and some rope. Seems that the wheel is turning again.
yep, and in a scary way.
I don't exactly envy those who have 50+ years to plan ahead for...
...rather than *just retirement*
Watson & Parisi
news:chcugn$ab6$2...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> quoting Robert...
> >>...you didn't address my original reply to your post. Perhaps a non
> >> issue for you since you don't speak with a German accent...
> > By the way, there is nothing more elegant and musical to me than
> > English spoken with a German accent.
>
> heh! You are *EVIL* !! <grin>
>
> Germans are also infamous for "NOT Getting It"
> (this kind of find sarcasm, that is... :)
I was totally serious. Look at it this way: We Americans speak English in a
kind of lazy way, slurring the words, not enunciating the consonants and
generally not making pure vowel sounds. A German accent corrects all these
deficits, and makes English sound beautifully crisp, clear and distinct. And
then there's that wonderful evenly spaced meter in which German is spoken,
which when applied to English makes it sound almost poetic. A German
speaking English with an accent may or may not speak it 'better' than we do,
but he or she certainly speaks it more aesthetically.
Robert.
Growth
> I was totally serious. Look at it this way: We Americans speak English in a
> kind of lazy way, slurring the words, not enunciating the consonants and
> generally not making pure vowel sounds. A German accent corrects all these
> deficits, and makes English sound beautifully crisp, clear and distinct.
Ups, I think the most of your compatriots will disagree with you.
Mainly the people of Texas with their wonderful dialect. :-)
Frank Feger
> A German accent corrects all these
> deficits, and makes English sound beautifully crisp, clear and distinct.
German is crisp and clear in general, but English with German accent
sounds too hard to me, not elegant or beautiful.
> evenly spaced meter in which German is spoken,
> which when applied to English makes it sound almost poetic.
I wouldn*t call it "poetic", but German is rhythmic. The Belgian
group Front 242 has used German for this reason, for example in
"Im Rhythmus bleiben".
Btw., there are Germans whose dialect sound like American accented
German to many Germans; they are called Siegerländer and live (duh!)
in the region near Siegen.
Regards,
F^2
Watson & Parisi
news:413b...@si-nic.hrz.uni-siegen.de...
[...]
> I wouldn*t call it "poetic", but German is rhythmic. The Belgian
> group Front 242 has used German for this reason, for example in
> "Im Rhythmus bleiben".
I have suggested in the past that there is a link between the rhythmic and
'logical' (poor word, I know) nature of the German language, and the fact
that the German speaking people have produced what many feel is the greatest
music in the world. Maybe speaking German natively primes the mind for the
kind of intricate interlocking 'wheels within wheels' structure that makes
music symphonic. I doubt there could ever be a way to confirm this
speculation, but it's intriguing to think about.
Robert.
Delila
"Frank Feger" <fr...@astro1.physik.uni-siegen.de> wrote in message
news:413b...@si-nic.hrz.uni-siegen.de...
>
> German to many Germans; they are called Siegerländer and live (duh!)
> in the region near Siegen.
Where is that? I've never heard of it? I think there is a difference
between someone from, say, Nuernberg, speaking English and someone from
Berlin. The Nuernberger's English will be softer.
D.
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wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
>> I wouldn*t call it "poetic", but German is rhythmic.,,,
> I have suggested in the past that there is a link between the rhythmic and
> 'logical' (poor word, I know) nature of the German language, and the fact
> that the German speaking people have produced what many feel is the greatest
> music in the world. Maybe speaking German natively primes the mind for the
> kind of intricate interlocking 'wheels within wheels' structure that makes
> music symphonic. I doubt there could ever be a way to confirm this
> speculation, but it's intriguing to think about.
<chuckle> NUTS !! <chuckle>
TR
news:4139df9c$0$19719$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> By linking a society that has effective social programs with communism,
you
> embody exactly the type of American to whom Arnold ("Conan the
Republican")
> was pandering.
Of course for the left there are never enough "effective social programs"
until
they reach the point of "From each according to his ability and to each
according
to his need".
>I suppose that means you too must be a Republican.
Yes, and happy to be one. You are a real Sherlock Holmes.
Eurosocialism in action:
From Britian:
A farmer named Tony Martin made headlines when he shot a burglar who had
broken into his remote farmhouse. He received a five-year sentence for
manslaughter, and was recently denied parole. The reasons?
a.. He was deemed “a danger to burglars.”
b.. He refused to express remorse for defending himself.
c.. The board felt that he was not “up to speed with the 21st century and
of thinking things were better 40 years ago”.
From Norway:
In 2002, the Norwegian government approved measures to increase the number
of women on the executive boards of both state-owned and private companies.
Within one year, the government will ensure that at least 40% of the members
of the boards of state-owned enterprises are women. Private companies have
until 2005 to increase their share of women on their boards to an acceptable
level - ie at least 40%. If this goal is not achieved, regulations setting
quotas will come into force in the private sector. If, however,
satisfactorily levels of women's participation are reached, the regulations
will not take effect.
From Italy:
April 8 2002
Now the country's highest court has confirmed the importance of family bonds
by ordering a father to continue maintaining his adult son until he is able
to find a job that satisfies his aspirations.
The loser in the maintenance battle is Giuseppe Andreoli, an anatomy
professor at Naples University and a former MP.
The Court of Cassation has ruled that he must continue to pay his
29-year-old son 775 euros ($1,285) a month until he can find himself
satisfactory employment. The victor is Marco, a law graduate who lives with
his mother and appears to be in no rush to flit the nest.
Mr Andreoli told the court that his son had a law degree, a house on one of
Naples's most elegant streets, and was joint owner of an investment fund
worth more than $A800,000. "How can you justify a decision like that?"he
asked.
http://thereactionary.home.mindspring.com/id7.html
TR
> Hm... communism grew out of the excesses of Victorian capitalism, and
> its appeal to workers with little left to lose scared the powers that
> were enough to start implementing social programs and created a social
> democratic movement willing to make deals instead of just finding
> suitable lampposts and some rope. It seems that the wheel is turning
> again.
>
> inge
>
I decided a long time ago that there was no possiblility of a
communist state ever being anything other than a police state. I think that
this idea is born out by both reason and experience. Here I will assume that
the experiential evidence speaks for itself for anyone who wishes to look at
how communism has worked in the real world. I will therefore concentrate on
the logic of why the communist state must always end up in being a police
state.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs". These are magic words; just words; inspirational words. And there
must surely be a race of aliens somewhere in the Universe that could apply
those words successfuly. But the individuals that believed that these words
could be made to work for man were drunk on their own idealism and blind to
the reality of the nature of man. Today this attitude of arrogant
ultrahumanism still reigns in academic circles and among the sanctimonious
pseudo intellectuals who call themselves liberals, leftists, and socialists.
In their zeal to accomplish this they feel certain that any means will be
justified by such a nobel end. All the failed attempts to bring about this
high ideal in the past have only been due to misunderstanding, corruption
and the failings of man. If man could be properly educated and if the right
implementation is followed, then the communist utopia is still possible. In
fact, not only is it possible, but it is the only acceptable destiny for
mankind.
The transparent and even obvious failings of Marx's ideal never
crosses the dogmatically rigid mind of the communists and their little
brothers on the left. The full impact of the term "From each" is never
inspected to see what it can possibly mean in the real world.
In the early years of the communist revolution the "From each" is not
according to his abilities, but rather "From each" according to his wealth.
The state appropriates the property of the wealthy and distributes it to the
poor. The result is a boon for the poor, but a very shorted sighted one.
Wealth is not a static entity and the wealth that is distributed to the poor
will not raise their living standard except for a short period of time.
After the wealth is consumed, whether it be in a year or in twenty years,
they will return to being poor. The process of appropriating the property of
the wealthy cannot be repeated because the wealthy were made poor by the
initial appropriation and they have absolutely no motivation to reaquire
wealth. Not only do they have no motiviation, but the communist system will
not allow it to happen. So the revolution results in a one time windfall for
the poor that can never be repeated. In any case, the appropriation of
personal wealth is always the first action of the police state, setting the
groundwork for the police state that must always be there after the
appropriation phase.
After the property of the wealthy has been distributed, the "From
each" takes on a new meaning. Now the property of every individual must be
continously appropriated so that the state can redistribute it according to
how it determines everyones needs. Man being man, he does not volunteer his
property. In fact he will make every effort to hide as much of it from the
state as possible. So now the "From each" requires a huge and repressive
police state to insure that those two little words are accomplished. A
network of spies must exist in all communities to insure that no one can
refuse to give up the fruits of their labor. Since the entire fabric of the
political system depends on the state being able to take everyones property,
the punishment for having the gall to try to keep your property must be
high. Why, then, is it not obvious to the most casual observer of human
beings that "From each" of neccessity requires the establishment of a
pervasive and intimidating police state. Why is it not obvious that the
individual must be forced to give up the product of his labor and therefore
must even be forced to do that labor.
Man from birth seems to have a feeling of personal property that is
never taught, but is simply innate to the animal. When my 2 year old plays
with other 2 year olds she shows jealous ownership of her own toys when
playing at her own home. And the other children show jealous ownership of
their property when she is playing at their homes. I have never made any
effort to teach her this characteristic. Since this feature of mankind is
anithetical to the communist ideal, the individual in the communist state
must be subjected to a life long regimen of propaganda in order to get him
to belive and act in opposition to his natural characteristics. As far as I
have been able to determine the propaganda effort is never more than
partially convincing. As the Soviet Union has shown, the transition from
decades of communist propaganda to a new believe in capitalism took
absolutely no propaganda at all.
The natural result of the communist philosophy is that the "From each"
requires a repressive police state that is able to extract only a paltry
amount of wealth from it's unwilling participants. And that paltry amount
will then become a "to each" that gives all a share of a small appropriation
and leaves the entire state in a condition of poverty. The state is capable
of making everyone equally poor. But it is not capable of making everyone
rich, or even of making everyone middle class.
Frank Feger
> Maybe speaking German natively primes the mind for the
> kind of intricate interlocking 'wheels within wheels' structure that makes
> music symphonic. I doubt there could ever be a way to confirm this
> speculation
Maybe statistics could help.
F^2
Frank Feger
> > Btw., there are Germans whose dialect sound like American accented
> > German to many Germans; they are called Siegerländer and live (duh!)
> > in the region near Siegen.
>
>
> Where is that? I've never heard of it?
Siegen is located about 60 or 70 km east of Cologne. A zip-archive
containing three Mp3 files in "Siegerländer Platt", spoken by someone
not from there (me :-), from Olpe), can be found on a link on
http://astro1.physik.uni-siegen.de/users/frank/files/siegerland.html
Enjoy, if possible. ;-)
Regards,
F^2
E.F.Schelby
This seems to fit into the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, or the theory of
Linguistic Relativity. The followers of Chomsky have opposed it but
it refuses to go away. Sapir was German and Jewish. He studied under
Franz Boas, sometimes called the (likewise German & Jewish) founder
of American anthropology. Whorf, a MIT trained chemist, eventually
worked with Sapir. Both were aware of tracks that go back to
Leibniz, Kant, Herder, Wilhelm von Humboldt and others.
http://worldhistory.com/wiki/S/Sapir-Whorf-Hypothesis.htm
I became interested in the hypothesis through Whorf's work with the
Hopi Indians here in the Southwest. He found that the Hopi language
has a natural affinity to the most complex aspects of modern
physics. There is also a Navajo physicist at Los Alamos who has
written on the topic in local papers. Google has many pages on
Sapir-Whorf.
Is there a link to music? Sapir was, and other scientists are
interested in it. Sapir's book _Culture, Language and Personality_
(Amazon) discusses music but I have not read it.
And this abstract of a Linguistics/Neuroscience paper titled
"Empirically-oriented comparative studies of language and music:
syntax and prosody."
states that "The relationship between language and music has long
engaged thinkers from a wide range of scientific and humanistic
disciplines."
http://www.wcas.northwestern.edu/linguistics/happening/patel.html
Regards,
E.
Till Poser
> "Frank Feger" <fr...@astro1.physik.uni-siegen.de> wrote in message
> news:413b...@si-nic.hrz.uni-siegen.de...
> >
> > Btw., there are Germans whose dialect sound like American accented
> > German to many Germans; they are called Siegerländer and live (duh!)
> > in the region near Siegen.
>
>
> Where is that? I've never heard of it? I think there is a difference
> between someone from, say, Nuernberg, speaking English and someone from
> Berlin. The Nuernberger's English will be softer.
The Dillenburg area in Hessia. Instant American pronunciation.
Try pronouncing "Die Apparatur ist in der Reparatur" with US
"R"-consonant, soft "P"'s, but German vowels.
--
Till
Frank Feger
> Try pronouncing "Die Apparatur ist in der Reparatur"
Hey, I didn't know this example!
Regards,
F^2