Americans and Other Foreigners in Germany
Wayne Brown
about the number of Americans from the United States who live in Germany.
That needs to be corrected for the record. A US participant put the figure
at "approximately 10,000 American expats." The true figure is more than 10
times that amount! The statistics include only US civilians, not US military
personnel and their dependents in Germany.
The Statistisches Bundesamt Deutschland (Statistical Federal Office of
Germany), the German official statistics agency, says 112,900 Americans
from the United States were living in Germany as of the year 2003. The
statistics are easy to compile because foreigners have to apply to the
authorities for permission to live in Germany and the authorities issuing
residency permits supply the figures. Some of the Americans have an
interesting story to tell, especially the ones who have lived in Germany
more than 50 years. One American woman, speaking from her home in Germany,
once told her story to the nation on the well-known American morning TV show
"Good Morning America." She was a tourist just passing through Germany when
she met her husband, a handsome and affluent young German farmer. She
succeeded in talking him into marrying her and she never left.
Germany has a population of a little over 82 million people. The number of
foreigners in the country totals a little over 7 million, among whom Turks
form the largest single group with 1,877,700 people. No other group comes
anywhere near the Turkish majority. Americans from the United States take
ninth place among the foreigners listed by the statistics agency according
to their numbers, with the largest group at the top.
There's a moral to this story: first, about yet another American without the
brains to use Internet resources to provide exact figures who waffles on
about some subject he's totally ignorant of -- this time it's how many
Americans he thinks might live in Germany; second, about the significance of
the information per se. If an American doesn't even know about the horde of
Americans abroad, how can he understand reports in his own newspapers?
You see, American mainstream newspapers have reported that the US government
recently undertook an initiative to urge US citizens abroad to sign up as
absentee voters for the US presidential election in the autumn. The
government kicked off its campaign by first signing up an American woman who
has lived in Mexico since 1936 (no, it wasn't Elisabeth Borton de Treviño).
Washington says it doesn't know exactly how many Americans reside outside
the United States but estimates the figure at well over one million people
(that inspired the _Washington Post_ to write about the 51st US state). The
figure includes American families like the one that has lived in France for
several generations and has traditionally sent their children to the College
of William and Mary for their higher education.
My God, American turkeys don't even have an intimate knowledge of their own
history (unless Walt Disney made a cartoon film about it), of their own
culture and their own countrymen! How in the world does anyone in the German
culture news group ever expect them to know anything about German culture
or, in view of their national arrogance, even to have the humility to learn?
Regards, ----- WB.
Richard J
"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:cgch3h$uai$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> Egregiously false information was recently set afloat in these news groups
> about the number of Americans from the United States who live in Germany.
> That needs to be corrected for the record. A US participant put the figure
> at "approximately 10,000 American expats." The true figure is more than 10
> times that amount! The statistics include only US civilians, not US
military
> personnel and their dependents in Germany.
You speak of two different things. U.S. military personnel and their
dependents are not expatriates,especially if they live on a US military
base. Expatriates are considered to have permamently moved to another
nation. Military personnel and their dependents are temporarily in Germany
on job assignment. In any event, those who live on base actually live on US
territory.
expatriate (čk-spā´trź-āt´) verb
expatriated, expatriating, expatriates verb, transitive
1. To send into exile. See Synonyms at BANISH.
2. To remove (oneself) from residence in one's native land.
verb, intransitive
1. To give up residence in one's homeland.
2. To renounce allegiance to one's homeland.
noun (-īt, -āt´)
1. One who has taken up residence in a foreign country.
2. One who has renounced one's native land.
adjective (-īt, -āt´)
Residing in a foreign country; expatriated.
[Medieval Latin expatriāre, expatriāt- : Latin ex-, ex- + Latin patria,
native land (from patrius, paternal, from pater, father).]
- expa´tria´tion noun
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition
copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
112,000 might seem a horde to you, but it is a drop in the bucket to those
of us whose nation has 270,000,000 citizens living in it. Yes, there is
well over a milliom Americans working and living abroad, and a good many of
them are in Europe. That's no surprise. After all, there are a good number
of German nationals at any one time living and working in the US.
>
> You see, American mainstream newspapers have reported that the US
government
> recently undertook an initiative to urge US citizens abroad to sign up as
> absentee voters for the US presidential election in the autumn. The
> government kicked off its campaign by first signing up an American woman
who
> has lived in Mexico since 1936 (no, it wasn't Elisabeth Borton de
Trevińo).
> Washington says it doesn't know exactly how many Americans reside outside
> the United States but estimates the figure at well over one million people
> (that inspired the _Washington Post_ to write about the 51st US state).
The
> figure includes American families like the one that has lived in France
for
> several generations and has traditionally sent their children to the
College
> of William and Mary for their higher education.
>
> My God, American turkeys don't even have an intimate knowledge of their
own
> history (unless Walt Disney made a cartoon film about it), of their own
> culture and their own countrymen! How in the world does anyone in the
German
> culture news group ever expect them to know anything about German culture
> or, in view of their national arrogance, even to have the humility to
learn?
And how can we ever expect people like you who display such arrogance as to
judge all Americans by so few as you see on this news group to really learn
about us? Have you ever traveled to the US? I've seen many Germans
traveling in the US, especially in the Western states. Most of them stay
with their own travel groups and will not exchange the simplest greeting in
passing. Travel to the Grand Canyon's south rim to see many of them.
Teflon
Teflon
>
> Regards, ----- WB.
>
>
Paul
"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:cgch3h$uai$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> about the number of Americans from the United States who live in Germany.
> That needs to be corrected for the record. A US participant put the figure
> at "approximately 10,000 American expats." The true figure is more than 10
> times that amount! The statistics include only US civilians, not US
military
> personnel and their dependents in Germany.
Well if that's so, doesn't that make you look even worse - if what is
claimed is true? I'm not all that familiar with your posting history but I
did find the post in question on the nasty side.
Paul
Oliver Gassner
>My God, American turkeys don't even have an intimate knowledge of their own
>history (unless Walt Disney made a cartoon film about it), of their own
>culture and their own countrymen! How in the world does anyone in the German
>culture news group ever expect them to know anything about German culture
>or, in view of their national arrogance, even to have the humility to learn?
Well, actually I don't ;)
Anyone?
OG
--
oliver gassner - radbrunnengasse 1/2 - D-71665 vaihingen an der enz
o...@carpe.com - mobil 0179 297 234 2 - http://www.oliver-gassner.de/
literatur: http://www.carpe.com/
content -- rezensionen: http://carpe.com/buch/
Oliver Gassner
>The
>statistics are easy to compile because foreigners have to apply to the
>authorities for permission to live in Germany and the authorities issuing
>residency permits supply the figures.
Yep, but no fingerprinting (yet) and no radio tagging. ;)
>She was a tourist just passing through Germany when
>she met her husband, a handsome and affluent young German farmer. She
>succeeded in talking him into marrying her and she never left.
Weeel, I guess it was less the talking; what do you think?
scnr
Oliver Gassner
>
>"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>news:cgch3h$uai$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
>> Egregiously false information was recently set afloat in these news groups
>> about the number of Americans from the United States who live in Germany.
>> That needs to be corrected for the record. A US participant put the figure
>> at "approximately 10,000 American expats." The true figure is more than 10
>> times that amount! The statistics include only US civilians, not US
>military
>> personnel and their dependents in Germany.
>
>You speak of two different things. U.S. military personnel and their
>dependents are not expatriates,especially if they live on a US military
>base. Expatriates are considered to have permamently moved to another
>nation. Military personnel and their dependents are temporarily in Germany
>on job assignment. In any event, those who live on base actually live on US
>territory.
a) This is why they are not in the numbers, right?
b) Some of them stay...
Blake Dodson
I must say Wayne, that you are a huge stumbling block *for those* who
desire to learn. You act as an immature child jealous of those *who
do* try to learn about themselves and others. Are you afraid? Tsss.
I remember writing e-mails to you and in every single reply you had
some prepubertal sneaky remark that I simply overlooked. Why did I?
Because I simply thought that it was a language issue. But you proved
me wrong, you proved to me that your education was a waste and that
you are no better than a bag of fetzen. You attacked my religion, you
attacked my country, you mocked me, and this is how you represent
Germany? And all I ever offered you was friendship. I cant believe
that I even looked up to you at one time.
No matter what Wayne, you *are* the very much like the Americans you
dispise...how ironic. I am saddened at your lack of wisdom and your
efforts here have been that of destructive diplomat. And you said
that you help and study the great contributors to mankind...whatever!
You have chosen a primordial level and not the level of those whom you
study.
You are a hair splitter, a hatemonger, and an utter waste of a great
ability. I cannot believe my eyes...you are trolling. But somehow I
still respect you, I still remember that once you were friendly and
decent to me; where is *this* Wayne Brown? You have proven that
intelligence was never wisdom. You lack humility and someday it will
smack you in the face.
A real man will stay and fight for the improvement of ones country; a
coward does nothing but runaway and betray/dis-own... what are you?
Hmm Mr. Braun?
Your dearest American/Cherokee/Dutch/Norman/French friend,
Blake
"Those who know and respect their lineage will be truly blessed."
Stefan Doll
> My God, American turkeys don't even have an intimate knowledge of their
> own history (unless Walt Disney made a cartoon film about it), of their
> own culture and their own countrymen! How in the world does anyone in the
> German culture news group ever expect them to know anything about German
> culture or, in view of their national arrogance, even to have the humility
> to learn?
There are many people in the US, and their attitudes, education and
interests vary widely. I do have the impression that in the US idiots are
more outspoken than idiots in other countries are. That's a shame, but not
representative for the people as a whole, I know many friendly, educated,
thoughtful and intelligent people in the US. As for the numbers of
Americans living in Germany - I doubt many Germans know the number of
Germans living in the US. (But yes, I concede it would be easy to find
out.)
Cheers
Stefan
Blake Dodson
> "Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:cgch3h$uai$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> > Egregiously false information was recently set afloat in these news groups
> > about the number of Americans from the United States who live in Germany.
> > That needs to be corrected for the record. A US participant put the figure
> > at "approximately 10,000 American expats."
>
> dependents are not expatriates,especially if they live on a US military
> base. Expatriates are considered to have permamently moved to another
> nation. Military personnel and their dependents are temporarily in Germany
> on job assignment. In any event, those who live on base actually live on US
> territory.
>
You did it again! My God man your comprehension is embarassing to
Americans. Oh wait! I meant its so common from Americans.
Let me point you to something Wayne perfectly explained....
<begin>
The true figure is more than 10
> > times that amount! The statistics include only US civilians, not US
> military
> > personnel and their dependents in Germany.
<end>
Do you see that? It said no military or their dependents. There is
only one definition for that.
Grats,
B.D.
inge
>
>
> There are many people in the US, and their attitudes, education and
> interests vary widely. I do have the impression that in the US idiots are
> more outspoken than idiots in other countries are.
I blame that on widespread internet access and the fact than English is
a common second language worldwide. American village idiots have an
easier time being heard and understood in a global village than those
from other countries.
inge
--
It is easier to stay out than get out.
- Mark Twain
===
<http://home.foni.net/~lyorn> -- Stories, RPG & stuff.
===
To send me priority mail, replace 'wildwusel' with 'lyorn'.
Richard J
"Oliver Gassner" <oli-...@web.de> wrote in message
news:r00ki099slg3m5ajr...@4ax.com...
No, the statement originally replied to spoke only of expartiate Americans.
US military personel and their families no more fit the definition of
'expatriate' than do German nationals working in German Embassies or
Consulates around the World. Had the statement said there were only 12,000
Americans living in Germany I would have disagreed with it as well. That
isn't what it said.
Teflon
Richard J
"Blake Dodson" <diein...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3c3d752f.04082...@posting.google.com...
> "Richard J" <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2ou3u2F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> > "Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> > news:cgch3h$uai$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> > > Egregiously false information was recently set afloat in these news
groups
> > > about the number of Americans from the United States who live in
Germany.
> > > That needs to be corrected for the record. A US participant put the
figure
> > > at "approximately 10,000 American expats."
> >
> > You speak of two different things. U.S. military personnel and their
> > dependents are not expatriates,especially if they live on a US military
> > base. Expatriates are considered to have permamently moved to another
> > nation. Military personnel and their dependents are temporarily in
Germany
> > on job assignment. In any event, those who live on base actually live
on US
> > territory.
> >
>
> You did it again! My God man your comprehension is embarassing to
> Americans. Oh wait! I meant its so common from Americans.
> Let me point you to something Wayne perfectly explained....
It was not my conprehension at fault. The statement spoke to 'expatriate'
Americans which as a good deal different from what Wayne spoke about. I
have no doubt there are, at any one time, more than 120,000 Americans in
Germany. Not all of those are 'expartiate', however. Many are working for
various companies with offices in Germany, some German and some American.
Most of those are not expatriate, but plan to return to their nation of
birth when the assignment ends or they retire.
Shall we examine how many Germans left Germany to come and live in the US
over the last century and how many German 'expatriates' live here now? I
have a feeling the numbers are quite a bit larger than the 10,000 number.
Teflon
E.F.Schelby
>Stefan Doll wrote:
>> There are many people in the US, and their attitudes, education and
>> interests vary widely. I do have the impression that in the US idiots are
>> more outspoken than idiots in other countries are.
I agree with you, except for the fact that I have never met an
American village idiot. From the perch where I sit, the Internet
noise in American English looks and sounds like a giant focus group.
It reflects what has been pounded into a relatively captive public
mind for a long time. The chance to read the foreign press online
is of rather recent vintage -- and most working Americans do not
have the time to do that anyway. They work long hours.
>I blame that on widespread internet access and the fact than English is
>a common second language worldwide. American village idiots have an
>easier time being heard and understood in a global village than those
>from other countries.
Heard yes. But understood? As an American, you are entitled to your
daily dose of government-sponsored self-esteem. Bright kids in
school may not learn to read and write properly, but they will be
put on a diet of self-esteem. It's like the taking of Soma in
Huxley's Brave New World. You come to depend on it. Now imagine the
shock of a sudden encounter with strange alien persons in the global
village who see things differently. They tell you all kinds of
things. Wouldn't you get defensive?
ES
Watson & Parisi
news:a64li0pvg5c8lh7p6...@4ax.com...
[...]
> Heard yes. But understood? As an American, you are entitled to your
> daily dose of government-sponsored self-esteem. Bright kids in
> school may not learn to read and write properly, but they will be
> put on a diet of self-esteem. It's like the taking of Soma in
> Huxley's Brave New World. You come to depend on it. Now imagine the
> shock of a sudden encounter with strange alien persons in the global
> village who see things differently. They tell you all kinds of
> things. Wouldn't you get defensive?
IMHO your insight here borders on genius.
Robert.
Christian Roessler
> "E.F.Schelby" <sch...@swcp.com> wrote in message
> [...]
>> Heard yes. But understood? As an American, you are entitled to your
>> daily dose of government-sponsored self-esteem. Bright kids in
>> school may not learn to read and write properly, but they will be
>> put on a diet of self-esteem. It's like the taking of Soma in
>> Huxley's Brave New World. You come to depend on it. Now imagine the
>> shock of a sudden encounter with strange alien persons in the global
>> village who see things differently. They tell you all kinds of
>> things. Wouldn't you get defensive?
> [...]
>
> IMHO your insight here borders on genius.
In der Tat; sehr lehrreich!
Viele Grüße,
Christian
Blake Dodson
I deeply agree with you.
Regards,
B.D.
Bruce Scott TOK
|> Egregiously false information was recently set afloat in these news groups
|> about the number of Americans from the United States who live in Germany.
[...]
[number a bit more than 100,000]
That's about what I thought it was. I'd like to know when we cracked
the top ten here... when I first moved here (1988) the number was
slightly less and we were about 12th or 14th.
But you were saying something about wild ass guesses in data, and then
this...
|> Washington says it doesn't know exactly how many Americans reside outside
|> the United States but estimates the figure at well over one million people
|> (that inspired the _Washington Post_ to write about the 51st US
|> state).
[...]
The number is much higher than that... Americans Abroad estimated it
then as in the neighborhood of 4 million, more than several states. At
the time they were campaigning for representation, since (as is obvious
to any of us living abroad for more than a year or two) there is no one
looking after our interests in any serious way. Many states do not
respect our voting rights as real residents for example. Well, I agree
I am not the resident of any particular state, but then why do I have to
go through a state in order to vote?
For voting purposes we should not be simply divided among the states...
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Wayne Brown
[...]
> Heard yes. But understood? As an American, you are entitled to your
> daily dose of government-sponsored self-esteem. Bright kids in
> school may not learn to read and write properly, but they will be
> put on a diet of self-esteem. It's like the taking of Soma in
> Huxley's Brave New World. You come to depend on it. Now imagine the
> shock of a sudden encounter with strange alien persons in the global
> village who see things differently. They tell you all kinds of
> things. Wouldn't you get defensive?
That quite nicely puts the situation in a nutshell. But Huxley's Soma was an
anti-depressant. If it's mentioned in the context of "government-sponsored
self-esteem," it might be worth noting that the Soma of ancient India, where
Huxley got the idea, also caused hallucinations. It's a shame that
historical accounts don't say whether those were 'hallucinations of
grandeur.'
The "global village"? Someone once said the news groups were the 'Wild West'
of the Internet, no place for the faint of heart. If that's true, then this
particular global village should be named Tombstone. Not only is German
culture a no-starter here; ad hominem attacks are the order of the day (draw
your six-shooter, Jack, and plug the poster!). Nothing is so tedious as the
degeneration of a topic into a discussion of the author. God, that's even
more boring than the long diatribe on Cuba in French!
How come criticism of the United States runs through the news groups like a
red thread? The answer is its lone superpower status and the spread of its
culture throughout the world. People in practically every country on the
globe also have long been getting regular doses of speeches by US leaders
talking about 'American values' and about carrying them out into the world
to make the world a better place to live in. Well, then, if that's the case,
let's have those American values out in the open and let's shine a bright
light on them to see exactly what it is the Americans want to shove down
everybody's throat. In the process, Americans are going to have to take
criticism in their stride.
Why do Americans from the United States seem so sensitive to criticism? Do
they really take their regular diet of Soma seriously? You bet your sweet
petutie they do! At least broad strata of the population. When a US leader,
addressing a crowd of fellow Americans, suddenly says American soldiers in
Iraq are protecting "freedom and democracy," and a deafening roar goes up
from the crowd, is there anyone among the screamers who would ever stop and
analyze those words? The answer to that has to wait until November 2, 2004.
As newcomers to the US have found out, for most Americans anything over the
border might as well be on Mars, despite the fact that the US was settled by
immigrants. Learning how that works is learning to understand America. Long
before Allan Bloom wrote _The Closing of the American Mind_ in 1988, many an
American mind already had a padlock on it. Admittedly, there's a highly
educated elite in the United States, Americans who are just as much at home
in the culture of Paris, Berlin or Madrid as they are at home; many of them
know the score, but they don't stick out in the United States and they
certainly aren't to be found in the news groups.
Many an American among the common people is convinced that the people of the
world are standing outside beating on America's gates to get in because
their own countries are just pitiful little areas where their own citizens
don't even want to live. Unfortunately, the many millions of Germans who
have chosen the United States over their own native country have also
contributed to that myth.
German newcomers to the United States who think they've arrived and have
been gratified by American compliments about Germany should have heard
American anti-Germans comments throughout the United States when Germany
announced it wouldn't take part in any US invasion of Iraq. Or long before
that, when plans for German reunification were announced. Watching Germans
suck up to Americans in the United States is one of the biggest turnoffs I
personally have witnessed. On the other hand, I understand Germans' dilemma.
Many a German immigrant gets tired of hearing, "Love it or leave it." And
what German wants to be asked by an angry American: "What did you say the
capital of your country was? Auschwitz?"
Is the United States a legitimate topic of discussion for this news group?
You bet it is. German culture has been subjected to many strong foreign
influences over the centuries, and the strongest one in the past few decades
has come from the United States. Analyzing that influence on German culture,
language, etc., praising it, condemning it or providing all the shades of
comment in between should have produced interesting threads here in
Tombstone.
Regards, ----- WB.
inge
>
> inge <wild...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
> I agree with you, except for the fact that I have never met an
> American village idiot.
We're operating on what we hear of them, here... ;-)
> the chance to read the foreign press online
> is of rather recent vintage -- and most working Americans do not
> have the time to do that anyway. They work long hours.
I wonder how much this plays a part in making ignorance a virtue.
>
> >I blame that on widespread internet access and the fact than English is
> >a common second language worldwide. American village idiots have an
> >easier time being heard and understood in a global village than those
> >from other countries.
>
> Heard yes. But understood?
"Understood" in a purely "having parsed words and grammar" sense.
>
> As an American, you are entitled to your
> daily dose of government-sponsored self-esteem. Bright kids in
> school may not learn to read and write properly, but they will be
> put on a diet of self-esteem.
<g> I read some online amateur literary communities. No shortage of 15
year olds who believe they are the next Joanne Rowling or (possibly)
Barbara Cartland, can't write a grammatically correct English sentence
to save their life and scream bloody murder about critics attacking
their first amendment rights when said critics dare to call a load of
semiliterate BS by name. Even if they try to use euphemistic names.
Nothing less then all-out worship will do.
inge
>
> E.F.Schelby wrote:
>
>
> Why do Americans from the United States seem so sensitive to criticism?
Popular psychology would look for the deep underlying insecurity.
However, unless I missed something, that angle does not seem to apply.
Ideas?
>
>
> Many an American among the common people is convinced that the people of the
> world are standing outside beating on America's gates to get in because
> their own countries are just pitiful little areas where their own citizens
> don't even want to live.
Just a few hours ago I read on a forum: "If you don't like my writing
['writing' as in 'literary aspirations'], get out of America! Where are
you from, Iraq?"
Needless to say, much hilarity ensued.
Delila
see inside...
"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:cgis13$8su$00$1...@news.t-online.com...
> E.F.Schelby wrote:
>
> How come criticism of the United States runs through the news groups
like a
> red thread? The answer is its lone superpower status and the spread of
its
> culture throughout the world. People in practically every country on the
> globe also have long been getting regular doses of speeches by US
leaders
> talking about 'American values' and about carrying them out into the
world
> to make the world a better place to live in.
The Americans should keep their <cough> American values in America, and
leave other countries alone, unless there's a very good reason to intervene.
Well, then, if that's the case,
> let's have those American values out in the open and let's shine a
bright
> light on them to see exactly what it is the Americans want to shove down
> everybody's throat. In the process, Americans are going to have to take
> criticism in their stride.
Exactly. Just like a celebrity has to put up with tabloids writing silly
stories about them and generally living in a fishbowl.
>
> Why do Americans from the United States seem so sensitive to criticism?
Do
> they really take their regular diet of Soma seriously? You bet your
sweet
> petutie they do! At least broad strata of the population. When a US
leader,
> addressing a crowd of fellow Americans, suddenly says American soldiers
in
> Iraq are protecting "freedom and democracy," and a deafening roar goes
up
> from the crowd, is there anyone among the screamers who would ever stop
and
> analyze those words?
No, because they're sheep.
>
> As newcomers to the US have found out, for most Americans anything over
the
> border might as well be on Mars, despite the fact that the US was
settled by
> immigrants.
I've noticed that, too.
>
> German newcomers to the United States who think they've arrived and have
> been gratified by American compliments about Germany should have heard
> American anti-Germans comments throughout the United States when Germany
> announced it wouldn't take part in any US invasion of Iraq. Or long
before
> that, when plans for German reunification were announced. Watching
Germans
> suck up to Americans in the United States is one of the biggest turnoffs
I
> personally have witnessed. On the other hand, I understand Germans'
dilemma.
> Many a German immigrant gets tired of hearing, "Love it or leave it."
And
> what German wants to be asked by an angry American: "What did you say
the
> capital of your country was? Auschwitz?"
I have never heard that question.
Delila
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Lou Minatti
> German newcomers to the United States who think they've arrived and have
> been gratified by American compliments about Germany should have heard
> American anti-Germans comments throughout the United States when Germany
> announced it wouldn't take part in any US invasion of Iraq.
I hate to break this to you, but the streets in America weren't
exactly buzzing with hatred towards Germany over this. You are
confusing loudmouths on the Internet with regular average folks. 99%
of us just want to go to work, spend time with our families, and maybe
go see a movie once in a while. Really. It's boring, but that's what
we do. We don't sit around discussing how much we hate Europe.
> Or long before
> that, when plans for German reunification were announced.
Huh? I've seen a lot of nonsense from the loudmouths, but I have never
heard anyone making anti-German comments due to German reunification.
What would possibly be objectionable about German reunification?
This constant country-bashing is stupid. I don't like the minority of
Americans that do it, nor do I like the (I hope) minority of Europeans
that do it. What are the bashers trying to accomplish? Other than to
make themselves look like walking rectums.
I mean, really. Bashers, make up your minds. Americans are supposed to
be stupid and know nothing about geography, so how can we even know
where Germany is, much less know anything about German reunification?
Blake Dodson
> ad hominem attacks are the order of the day (draw
>your six-shooter, Jack, and plug the poster!)
Well sometimes the poster has trully earned his reward. May it be on
Usenet or in personal e-mails. Hatred is simply hatred no matter how
intelligent or convoluted a text is.
BTW: Shall I post your ad hominem attacks you emailed me in the past?
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
loumi...@myway.com (Lou Minatti) writes:
> Huh? I've seen a lot of nonsense from the loudmouths, but I have never
> heard anyone making anti-German comments due to German reunification.
> What would possibly be objectionable about German reunification?
Perhaps it wasn't the majority, and it was unfounded, BUT there was A
LOT of opposition to German reunification among politically influential
people, such as Margaret Thatcher. There was a fear (real or imagined
or used as a bargaining instrument) that Germany would become too
powerful, militarily and/or economically. Militarily, the same folks
who opposed German unification for this reason are now saddened because
Germany is not more gung-ho to support W. Economically, Germany has
been crippled by the costs of unification. (The domestic economic
aspects of unification could have been handled much better.)
Kohl really botched the domestic economic aspects of reunification, but
it is quite respectable that he was able to organise it with regard to
foreign policy. Germany did have to agree to some compromises, though
(officially or inofficially): for instance, unification would not have
been allowed if there were a plebiscite as to whether unified Germany
would be in NATO, or the EU, or join the common currency. I'm not sure
about NATO or the EU, but a plebiscite would definitely have rejected
the common currency.
Wayne Brown
> Perhaps it wasn't the majority, and it was unfounded, BUT there was A
> LOT of opposition to German reunification among politically
> influential people, such as Margaret Thatcher. [...]
Helmut Kohl has said publicly that all the leaders of the NATO countries,
including the United States, were opposed to German reunification when he
called them one by one on the telephone and broached the subject to them.
Margaret Thatcher was said to have been adamantly opposed to it. Kohl said
only one single leader of a NATO country, Felipe González of Spain, said
right off the bat: "Why, yes, of course!"
Regards, ----- WB.
Wayne Brown
>
> I hate to break this to you, but the streets in America weren't
> exactly buzzing with hatred towards Germany over this. You are
> confusing loudmouths on the Internet with regular average folks. 99%
> of us just want to go to work, spend time with our families, and maybe
> go see a movie once in a while. Really. It's boring, but that's what
> we do. We don't sit around discussing how much we hate Europe.
With all due respect, I don't believe that either of us knows what 99% of
Americans do or think. Moreover, I'm not aware that any American has been
empowered with a mandate to use "We" to speak on behalf of the nation.
Professional pollsters spend a great deal of time and money trying to
understand public opinion and for all their care even they have to allow for
margins of error. At best, the *individual* can merely say "I think...," "my
personal experience has been...," "my relatives, friends and neighbors all
tell me they think..." and "my co-workers seem to believe...," but that
unfortunately still doesn't add up to 99%. I agree with you wholeheartedly
about the Internet. When I first discovered it, the level of hatred in the
news groups was a surprise.
> Huh? I've seen a lot of nonsense from the loudmouths, but I have never
> heard anyone making anti-German comments due to German reunification.
> What would possibly be objectionable about German reunification?
When demonstrators in Berlin started chipping away on the Berlin Wall, I was
on a brief vacation in the United States and immediately turned on the live
TV reports to watch. The major networks also had discussions with 'experts'
to discuss the events. One such program featured a man who had fled from
Germany in 1938. He had been seated in front of a studio monitor in order to
be able to comment on the live feed from Germany. "Yes," he said sadly as he
looked up from the monitor, "those are the voices of the Brown Shirts, the
voices of 1938." The entire program continued in that vein.
A few hours later I turned on a panel discussion of 'experts' on American
national TV who were discussing the possibility of German reunification if
the Berlin Wall came down, how quickly the East German National People's
Army might be integrated into the West German Bundeswehr and how soon the
German government might be able to declare a general mobilization to
implement revengist goals like marching into the Sudetenland.
American Friends and acquaintances who had watched similar programs and had
heard similar comments asked me whether I thought Germany was going to
unleash the Third World War. My comments that there was a greater chance
that Martians were going to land and start taking the orders over the
counter at Starbucks didn't seem to convince them.
[...]
Regards, ----- WB.
Wayne Brown
[...]
> The number is much higher than that... Americans Abroad estimated it
> then as in the neighborhood of 4 million, more than several states.
> At the time they were campaigning for representation, since (as is
> obvious to any of us living abroad for more than a year or two) there
> is no one looking after our interests in any serious way. Many
> states do not respect our voting rights as real residents for
> example. Well, I agree I am not the resident of any particular
> state, but then why do I have to go through a state in order to vote?
>
> For voting purposes we should not be simply divided among the
> states...
The US Constitution provides for elections to be the prerogative of the
states. That could be altered by an amendment creating a new legal mechanism
for Americans living abroad; however, that would entail a number of
problems. The government would have to establish the exact number of
Americans outside the country with foreign residence status for the purpose
of determining how many representatives they would get in the House of
Representatives, just as the Census Bureau does it for the states. Do think
an initiative to do that would get very far with Americans living in the
United States?
Regards, ----- WB.
Lou Minatti
> In article <fc2fd83e.0408...@posting.google.com>,
> loumi...@myway.com (Lou Minatti) writes:
>
> > Huh? I've seen a lot of nonsense from the loudmouths, but I have never
> > heard anyone making anti-German comments due to German reunification.
> > What would possibly be objectionable about German reunification?
>
> Perhaps it wasn't the majority, and it was unfounded, BUT there was A
> LOT of opposition to German reunification among politically influential
> people, such as Margaret Thatcher.
Thatcher is not an American. Wayne specifically claimed that Americans
were the ones making anti-German comments over German reunification.
I have never heard Americans make any such comments. For what possible
reasons would Americans object to this? Reunification meant we could
finally send our boys home.
> There was a fear (real or imagined
> or used as a bargaining instrument) that Germany would become too
> powerful, militarily and/or economically.
Perhaps there was fear in Europe, for understandable reasons, at least
to the older people who remember the war. I have never heard of any
such fear in the US.
> Militarily, the same folks
> who opposed German unification for this reason are now saddened because
> Germany is not more gung-ho to support W.
Who are these American "folks who opposed German unification" you and
Wayne keep referring to? Are they part of the sinister American cabal
that planned the 9/11 attacks?
> Economically, Germany has
> been crippled by the costs of unification. (The domestic economic
> aspects of unification could have been handled much better.)
In hindsight perhaps, but the task was and remains enormous. The FRG
assumed responsibility for an extra country saddled with a mediocre
infrastructure and inefficient state-owned industries. More important,
there were millions of emotional cripples that had to be cared for.
I suspect Germany will have their own version of Appalachia for many
years to come.
wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
>>..there was A LOT of opposition to German reunification among
>> politically influential people, such as Margaret Thatcher...
> Helmut Kohl has said publicly that all the leaders of the NATO countries,
> including the United States, were opposed to German reunification when he
> called them one by one on the telephone and broached the subject to them.
please provide a definite reference as to what was said, by whom, when...
...and if Kohl had called you (or me), what would we have said?
we would have been very worried about *what* to do *when* (how fast) and
would have counseled caution, and slow action -- certainly would not have
signed off at what Kohl ended up doing (I doubt he knew that himself at
the time of those initial contacts)...
> Margaret Thatcher was said to have been adamantly opposed to it.
> Kohl said only one single leader of a NATO country, Felipe González
> of Spain, said right off the bat: "Why, yes, of course!"
my take on this is that it must be thought about in the context of how the
translator is likely to have phrased the question (impossible to know, of
course, as such things aren't made public) Kohl being helpless without one,
and the cultural context and personal relationships between the politicians
...and the Spaniard's reaction puts a smile on my face, because it sounds
as if it whole-heartedly supported "the idea" while putting the concern
"and what, exactly, is your plan and how do you intend to go about it?"
aside for the moment, taking a supportive and friendly stance toward a
nation and a people considered "friends"...
that leaders of other countries, after decades of worries of having to
fight ww3 on German soil (and having had to fight ww1 and ww2) would not
react quite that way doesn't surprise me at all...
...and I don't take Kohl's -- or rather I should say, Wayne's-- simplistic
categorization of their reaction at face value at all, consider it nothing
more than a "sound bite" stated for sensational effect rather than as
insightful commentary on what such conversations were all about and like.
--
/"\ ASCII... ._. ||--> EscapeCellHell.org (Consumers Union) <--
\ / on Usenet /v\ || If you're not pissed off at the world yet
X ANYTHING ELSE /( )\ || then you're just not paying attention.
/ \ IS BLOAT !! ^^ ^^ || --Kasey Chambers
E.F.Schelby
>"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message news:<cgis13$8su$00$1...@news.t-online.com>...
>We don't sit around discussing how much we hate Europe.
That's true. Rush, Fox, and herds of various opinion-makers do it
for you.
>I mean, really. Bashers, make up your minds. Americans are supposed to
>be stupid and know nothing about geography, so how can we even know
>where Germany is, much less know anything about German reunification?
Ah well.Anyway, you work, spend time with your family, and let the
world go round. That's what I have been saying: most Americans don't
have the leisure to read books like _The Sorrows of Empire_, or the
foreign press, or even their own. Accordingly, it's easy to miss the
negative and even hateful stuff about unification. Somewhere I have
the clippings. But I will not dig them out. What for? I wasted time
by writing a letter-to-the editor just last week. The chairman of
our state's Republican Party, John Dendahl, who is presumably not a
troll, published a column in which he justified the mess in Iraq by
declaring that:
"as in Iraq today, for example, insurgency in
Germany remained a nasty, deadly problem for the
occupying forces and German citizens alike
long after VE Day, May 8, 1945."
He insists that thousands of Werewolf murderers and trouble makers
terrorized the country, thereby sabotaging reconstruction. It's pure
invention. The Werewolves didn't amount to anything. Germany was
down and out.Silent.
Well, my stomach churned once again. I asked the paper's editor to
consider hiring an ombudsman like the New York Times has done it, so
that someone can help out with separating fact from fiction. Not
surprisingly, he didn't print my letter. However, several others
(some written by ex-servicemen, bless their hearts) were published,
also stating that the story was false. Fiction. A lie.
So no, Lou. It's not you and the majority of your fellow Americans
who create this climate. The stuff has been seeping down from the
roofs for years. It breeds trolls. And sadly, you let it happen and
do nothing. Rings a bell?
Take care,
E.
P.S. Indeed, country-bashing is stupid. Someone should let the
gentlepersons inside the Beltway and their groupies in on the
secret. Maybe a Dale Carnegie Course? On how to win friends?
Lou Minatti
> Lou Minatti wrote:
> >
> > I hate to break this to you, but the streets in America weren't
> > exactly buzzing with hatred towards Germany over this. You are
> > confusing loudmouths on the Internet with regular average folks. 99%
> > of us just want to go to work, spend time with our families, and maybe
> > go see a movie once in a while. Really. It's boring, but that's what
> > we do. We don't sit around discussing how much we hate Europe.
>
> With all due respect, I don't believe that either of us knows what 99% of
> Americans do or think. Moreover, I'm not aware that any American has been
> empowered with a mandate to use "We" to speak on behalf of the nation.
> Professional pollsters spend a great deal of time and money trying to
> understand public opinion and for all their care even they have to allow for
> margins of error. At best, the *individual* can merely say "I think...," "my
> personal experience has been...," "my relatives, friends and neighbors all
> tell me they think..." and "my co-workers seem to believe...," but that
> unfortunately still doesn't add up to 99%. I agree with you wholeheartedly
> about the Internet. When I first discovered it, the level of hatred in the
> news groups was a surprise.
I see. Well, that certainly sounds different from your original claim,
which was that there were "anti-Germans comments throughout the United
States". Perhaps you should have couched your opinion with the two
words "I think".
> > Huh? I've seen a lot of nonsense from the loudmouths, but I have never
> > heard anyone making anti-German comments due to German reunification.
> > What would possibly be objectionable about German reunification?
>
> When demonstrators in Berlin started chipping away on the Berlin Wall, I was
> on a brief vacation in the United States and immediately turned on the live
> TV reports to watch. The major networks also had discussions with 'experts'
> to discuss the events. One such program featured a man who had fled from
> Germany in 1938. He had been seated in front of a studio monitor in order to
> be able to comment on the live feed from Germany. "Yes," he said sadly as he
> looked up from the monitor, "those are the voices of the Brown Shirts, the
> voices of 1938." The entire program continued in that vein.
Assuming you remember verbatim a quote from a guy on a television show
after 15+ years, this admission of yours quite changes things. Your
original comment was that Americans made anti-German comments due to
reunification. Period. Now you admit that the guy who made the
anti-German comment had to flee Nazi Germany for his life.
That small fact quite changes the discussion, don't you think?
> A few hours later I turned on a panel discussion of 'experts' on American
> national TV who were discussing the possibility of German reunification if
> the Berlin Wall came down, how quickly the East German National People's
> Army might be integrated into the West German Bundeswehr and how soon the
> German government might be able to declare a general mobilization to
> implement revengist goals like marching into the Sudetenland.
I detect a strong unpleasant odor.
> American Friends and acquaintances who had watched similar programs and had
> heard similar comments asked me whether I thought Germany was going to
> unleash the Third World War. My comments that there was a greater chance
> that Martians were going to land and start taking the orders over the
> counter at Starbucks didn't seem to convince them.
I've never heard such comments until your post. I've asked around, my
friends and co-workers have never heard such comments. I recall no
such "serious" discussions on television about Germany rearming to
exact "revenge". All I heard was relief and a sense of wonder because
after 30+ years the bull**it was over.
I can certainly understand why surviving victims of Nazi persecution
would be frightened by German reunification. I suspect that you heard
such people speak in fear, and after 15 years you chose to insert it
into the "America sucks" thread you began without fully explaining the
who's and why's.
Frank Feger
> I mean, really. Bashers, make up your minds. Americans are supposed to
> be stupid and know nothing about geography, so how can we even know
> where Germany is, much less know anything about German reunification?
LOL - cool comment! :-)
Regards,
F^2
Lou Minatti
> loumi...@myway.com (Lou Minatti) wrote:
>
> >"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message news:<cgis13$8su$00$1...@news.t-online.com>...
>
> >We don't sit around discussing how much we hate Europe.
>
> That's true. Rush, Fox, and herds of various opinion-makers do it
> for you.
>
> >I mean, really. Bashers, make up your minds. Americans are supposed to
> >be stupid and know nothing about geography, so how can we even know
> >where Germany is, much less know anything about German reunification?
>
> Ah well.Anyway, you work, spend time with your family, and let the
> world go round. That's what I have been saying: most Americans don't
> have the leisure to read books like _The Sorrows of Empire_, or the
> foreign press, or even their own.
I apologize for not having the time or money to use my passport
anymore, E.F. It is selfish of me to instead spend my leisure time
with my family and my young children. I've had the fortune to visit
Europe a few times, but since the kids were born I just don't have the
money for overseas travel. Nor do I have the leisure time to read
Important Books or the foreign press.
I would like to go back though, E.F. Now that my son is old enough,
I'd like to visit Munich again and this time take him with me. For
instance, I think he'd really like the Deutsche Museum. He's into
planes and ships and all that technology stuff.
Perhaps you have some extra cash, E.F. It would be swell of you to buy
my son and I some plane tickets for Munich this fall. This way you
could do your own small part to make Americans as enlightened as you
are. As a bonus, I would have the time on the flight over to read
Important Books AND the foreign press.
Again, my apologies for being an ignorant uncultured American.
Best regards,
Lou
Frank Feger
> I would like to go back though, E.F. Now that my son is old enough,
> I'd like to visit Munich again and this time take him with me. For
> instance, I think he'd really like the Deutsche Museum. He's into
> planes and ships and all that technology stuff.
If you really should visit Germany, try visiting the "Technik Museum
Speyer" and the "Auto und Technik Museum Sinsheim". In both of them,
many planes are displayed. Speyer shows submarines, including one
which was active until a few years ago. In Sinsheim, there are more
cars, "The Blue Flame" for example.
Regards,
F^2
C.Brady
wrote:
One can only marvel at such deep perception and your aptitude to
identify the cause for unawareness among the general public.
Complimentary plane tickets or the lack there of, has always been a
serious deterrence to gain insight into historical/current political
events.
Fortunately, there are some remedies available to resolve this/your
particular predicament without resorting to solicitation for
hand-outs…..
Have you considered joining the US military? Thousands of Americas
finest annually sign up to gain access to free travel arrangements
while simultaneously benefiting from the personal satisfaction in
defending/spreading Americas virtues around the globe.
The recent Europe troop reduction announcement won't take place for
quite some time, allowing for ample time to visit various museums,
always a favorite pastime of American GI's (Unlike getting inebriated
in the local bars). Another reason why the arts and cultural
establishments will bare the brunt in terms of financial loss when US
troops are eventually withdrawn. Oh well, they too will have to
figure out a way to deal with this….
>
>Again, my apologies for being an ignorant uncultured American.
Apologies excepted. ;-)
Christa
>
>Best regards,
>Lou
E.F.Schelby
>E.F.Schelby wrote:
>>
>> inge <wild...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I agree with you, except for the fact that I have never met an
>> American village idiot.
>
>We're operating on what we hear of them, here... ;-)
I accept that ;-).
>> the chance to read the foreign press online
>> is of rather recent vintage -- and most working Americans do not
>> have the time to do that anyway. They work long hours.
>
>I wonder how much this plays a part in making ignorance a virtue.
You heard our good friend Lou. He's thinks that he's the only one
who raises kids and earns a living. He wrote cute stuff to paint
book readers as snobs who have nothing better to do and must have
been born with silver spoons in their mouths. Anyway, I suspect that
it doesn't take more time to scan some foreign papers online than it
does to visit scg. As for reading books, well, what can I say. About
50 percent of Americans do it (at least once per year), and the
other 50 percent do not. It's almost the same with voting.
The question of making ignorance a virtue is a tricky one. Someone
once said America is a construction of the mind. Accordingly,
Americans may see themselves as a nation of doers.I love to go to
Home Depot (where we buy our plants and gardening stuff) on a
Saturday morning and watch lots of men buy hardware and such.There
they are, in their element. Professionals, guys who work on desks or
computers all day -- you should see them. They are completely
absorbed, and they look happy. They will soon work with their hands
using tools, stone, wood, or wire. They know how to do anything. And
quite frankly, I appreciate these abilities. You watch them, and you
get an inkling how this 'immense wilderness' was settled, hook and
crook.
[....]
>> As an American, you are entitled to your
>> daily dose of government-sponsored self-esteem. Bright kids in
>> school may not learn to read and write properly, but they will be
>> put on a diet of self-esteem.
>
><g> I read some online amateur literary communities. No shortage of 15
>year olds who believe they are the next Joanne Rowling or (possibly)
>Barbara Cartland, can't write a grammatically correct English sentence
>to save their life and scream bloody murder about critics attacking
>their first amendment rights when said critics dare to call a load of
>semiliterate BS by name. Even if they try to use euphemistic names.
>Nothing less then all-out worship will do.
Perhaps that's the flip side of the legendary American optimism.
(Eine kleine Prise Groessenwahn schmeckt ganz gut).
Greetings,
E.
Lou Minatti
I am glad that you agree with me. There have been many articles
critical of Americans because not enough of us have passports. One
clear reason Americans are ignorant fools who don't understand the
world is because they haven't been to Europe. Free plane tickets
should resolve this problem.
This does lead to a quandry, however. Americans are hated because we
are ignorant stupid fools and usually obese. Plus, we dress like
slobs. Why would anyone outside of the US criticize Americans for not
having passports? Having fewer passports is a GOOD thing. Americans
are a horrible people, so perhaps it would be a bad idea to pollute
any more nice pristine European cities with them.
> Fortunately, there are some remedies available to resolve this/your
> particular predicament without resorting to solicitation for
> hand-outs?..
Why is this a handout? This is an educational program.
> Have you considered joining the US military? Thousands of Americas
> finest annually sign up to gain access to free travel arrangements
> while simultaneously benefiting from the personal satisfaction in
> defending/spreading Americas virtues around the globe.
Well, there are two problems with this. First, the military doesn't
usually accept guys who are closing in on 40. Second, if I can't
afford to travel to Europe with my family now, I certainly won't be
able to afford to have my family there with me on a typical Army pay
grade.
> The recent Europe troop reduction announcement won't take place for
> quite some time, allowing for ample time to visit various museums,
> always a favorite pastime of American GI's (Unlike getting inebriated
> in the local bars).
Yes, and that will be a good thing. As we all know, Ugly American
young men prefer to get drunk and obnoxious when they are 20 years old
and thousands of miles away from home and without the company of women
for weeks at a time. In the rest of the world, young single men are
more cultured and prefer fine art museums.
> Another reason why the arts and cultural
> establishments will bare the brunt in terms of financial loss when US
> troops are eventually withdrawn. Oh well, they too will have to
> figure out a way to deal with this?.
Since the American slobs don't go for this sort of thing, it really
shouldn't make a difference one way or the other.
> >Again, my apologies for being an ignorant uncultured American.
>
> Apologies excepted. ;-)
Your English is fine, except "excepted" should be "accepted". Please
accept my apologies for pointing this out.
Best regards,
Lou
C.Brady
wrote:
>C.Brady <ch.b...@c0mcast.net> wrote in message news:<h2e4j0184qrd0q10q...@4ax.com>...
>> On 28 Aug 2004 14:10:59 -0700, loumi...@myway.com (Lou Minatti)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >E.F.Schelby <sch...@swcp.com> wrote in message news:<57pui0ldi39pg6rm3...@4ax.com>...
>> >> loumi...@myway.com (Lou Minatti) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >"Wayne Brown" <Wayne.Brow...@t-online.de> wrote in message news:<cgis13$8su$00$1...@news.t-online.com>...
[...]
Try your local library instead. Perhaps they provide free
transportation….?!
>
>This does lead to a quandry, however. Americans are hated because we
>are ignorant stupid fools and usually obese.
Not according to Dubya: "They Hate Us for our Freedom".
So which is it?
>Plus, we dress like slobs. Why would anyone outside of the US criticize Americans for not
>having passports? Having fewer passports is a GOOD thing. Americans
>are a horrible people, so perhaps it would be a bad idea to pollute
>any more nice pristine European cities with them.
I doubt that many Europeans loose any sleep over how poorly you dress
or the obesity epidemic in the US. Only your own inflated ego would
have you believe otherwise.
>
>> Fortunately, there are some remedies available to resolve this/your
>> particular predicament without resorting to solicitation for
>> hand-outs?..
>
>Why is this a handout? This is an educational program.
Again, If you're looking for free educational programs consult your
local library and find out your eligibility status.
>
>> Have you considered joining the US military? Thousands of Americas
>> finest annually sign up to gain access to free travel arrangements
>> while simultaneously benefiting from the personal satisfaction in
>> defending/spreading Americas virtues around the globe.
>
>Well, there are two problems with this. First, the military doesn't
>usually accept guys who are closing in on 40.
Hang in there; with the way things are going in Iraq (Quagmire),
pretty soon anyone will be eligible to join in the effort to fight the
evil doers.
>Second, if I can't afford to travel to Europe with my family now, I certainly won't be
>able to afford to have my family there with me on a typical Army pay
>grade.
That's a problem (low military wages) you need to take up with your
respective political representatives.
[...]
>
>> Another reason why the arts and cultural
>> establishments will bare the brunt in terms of financial loss when US
>> troops are eventually withdrawn. Oh well, they too will have to
>> figure out a way to deal with this?.
>
>Since the American slobs don't go for this sort of thing, it really
>shouldn't make a difference one way or the other.
>
>> >Again, my apologies for being an ignorant uncultured American.
>>
>> Apologies excepted. ;-)
>
>Your English is fine, except "excepted" should be "accepted". Please
>accept my apologies for pointing this out.
No need to apologize! If my spelling error enabled you for a brief
moment to feel less ignorant, then it was all for a good cause…
Christa
>
>Best regards,
>Lou
E.F.Schelby
>E.F.Schelby wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> It's like the taking of Soma in Huxley's Brave New World. You come
>> to depend on it. Now imagine the shock of a sudden encounter with
>> strange alien persons in the global village who see things differently.
>> They tell you all kinds of things. Wouldn't you get defensive?
>But Huxley's Soma was an anti-depressant.
Yes, it was a happy-pill. A few years ago someone wrote a book about
the US as the Prozac Nation.
>If it's mentioned in the context of "government-sponsored self-esteem,"
>it might be worth noting that the Soma of ancient India, where Huxley
>got the idea, also caused hallucinations. It's a shame that historical
>accounts don't say whether those were 'hallucinations of grandeur.'
Indeed. Incidentally, Huxley visited New Mexico and used a composite
of our landscapes as his model for the savage reservation. I am
rather glad to live here ;-).
>The "global village"? Someone once said the news groups were the 'Wild West'
>of the Internet, no place for the faint of heart. If that's true, then this
>particular global village should be named Tombstone.
Have you ever seen the German broadsides from -- let's say the
period of the Reformation? Or the outrageous caricatures of 18th
century England? People used them to vent their spleen, their anger,
and their mockery. Nothing for the faint of heart either. This was
prior to the manipulated mass media who controlled, filtered, and
sterilized as they saw fit. There was no marketplace for ordinary
voices left -- until the Internet restored a global Hyde Park where
everyone can stand on a soapbox and proclaim, or insult, etc.etc.
Despite all its pit falls, I still think the cacophony is healthy.
At least it's a release into the open. There, one hopes, it can do
less damage.
[...]
Regards,
ES