Moving to Deutschland
Rob Strickland
I'm thinking of re-locating to Bonn, Germany next Spring after graduation
(bachelor's in philosophy) to attend a German university for a couple of
years . What I'm wondering, is if there are any American ex-patriates out
there who have done this sort of thing and would be willing to give me some
pointers in how to manage the move. I'll be moving with my fiancée, who
speaks little or no German and want to make the transition for her as
stressless as possible. I spent a semester in Bonn, so I have some idea what
I'm in for, but relocation for a few years is a little more major. Thanks
for any help in advance.
--
Robert Strickland
DePaul University
E-Mail: rstr...@shrike.depaul.edu
robertst...@hotmail.com
If you have ICQ, contact me
by using my ICQ#: 8721467
If you don't have ICQ, contact me
by using my EmailExpress: 872...@pagermirabilis.com
Juergen Hubert
I'm not an expatriate, but here is an URL that can point you to some of
them:
http://pages.vossnet.de/aussies/index.htm
And as for your wife: The best thing for her would be if she attended
some "Deutsch als Fremdsprache" courses, which are offered at the
"Volkshochschulen" - institutes which can be found in all German cities.
The URL for the Volkshochschule in Bonn can be found at
Sure, the course will cost some money, but on the other hand, she will
have something to do, learn German, and meet a lot of people who have
the same problems as she does - living in a strange country without
knowing much of the language...
- Juergen Hubert
dibley
proud of your heritage.
Rob Strickland wrote in message <378e...@news.depaul.edu>...
Peter Haefner
>Why do you have to be an American EX-patriot to move to Bonn? You should be
>proud of your heritage.
>Rob Strickland wrote in message <378e...@news.depaul.edu>...
>>years . What I'm wondering, is if there are any American ex-patriates out
>>there who have done this sort of thing and would be willing to give me some
He was looking for expatriAtes. You might wish to endeavour a dictionary.
Peter
--
due to unrelenting spam, use the following for
email-replies: peter dot haefner at iname dot com
Rob Strickland
connotation of being ashamed of one's heritage. I am, however, no prouder of
my heritage, than my hair color as I had very little (or rather nothing) to
do with choosing them. They're historical, something that I cannot imagine
being without and still being myself, but nothing that I take pride in. I
take pride in my actions and choices, not in states of affair that are
beyond my control. Nietzsche wrote, "For, even if I should be a bad German,
I am at all events a very good European," stressing that provincialism and
patriotism are often the very hurdles that prevent a greater cosmopolitanism
from taking hold. This newsgroup sees enough of people speaking from 'blind'
pride as it is and I choose not to get involved in some pathetic nationalist
name-calling that should have been left behind on the playground. I didn't
ask for your suggestions on what I should or shouldn't be proud of in my
life. Keep your opinions on that matter to yourself. I did ask for educated
opinions on other matter and would like to finish by thanking those who have
offered help. I only wish there were more like them taking part in this
newgroup.
Robert Strickland
Stefan Doll
> > I'm thinking of re-locating to Bonn, Germany next Spring after
> > graduation (bachelor's in philosophy) to attend a German university
> > for a couple of years .
A question somewhat related to this. Attending university is
basically free for Germans - how does this work for foreigners?
Is there a fee you have to pay?
Cheers
Stefan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Juergen Hubert
>
> > > I'm thinking of re-locating to Bonn, Germany next Spring after
> > > graduation (bachelor's in philosophy) to attend a German university
> > > for a couple of years .
>
> A question somewhat related to this. Attending university is
> basically free for Germans - how does this work for foreigners?
> Is there a fee you have to pay?
>
> Cheers
>
> Stefan
I'm not sure, but I don't think so. After all, our politicians
continually say that they want to "attract" foreign students, and not
scare them away...
- Juergen Hubert
Rob Strickland
examination (formerly the PNDS). Once you've passed it (you get 3 tries
during your life) you may attend a university at any time during your life
just as if you're a German student. Tuition runs about 180DM. That's why I'm
moving there.
Robert Strickland
Juergen Hubert
Not to mention the current dollar-DM exchange rate... ;-)
- Juergen Hubert
dbf
> > moving there.
Did you say 180, as in one hundred and eighty DM???????
Hmmm, maybe I'll move there tooo!
--
Remove SPAMSUX from Reply address
Stefan Doll
> In order to attend a German university one must pass the DSH language
> examination (formerly the PNDS). Once you've passed it (you get 3
> tries during your life) you may attend a university at any time during
> your life just as if you're a German student. Tuition runs about
> 180DM. That's why I'm moving there.
Thanks that's exactly the sort of info I was looking for.
I'm getting asked about this a lot, but since I'm German I had
no idea whether foreigners get the same conditions as nationals.
How difficult is the DSH? Did you have to study for it a lot?
Peter Alfke
Stefan Doll wrote:
> Hi Robert,
> <snip>Tuition runs about
> > 180DM. That's why I'm moving there.
>
> Thanks that's exactly the sort of info I was looking for.
> I'm getting asked about this a lot, but since I'm German I had
> no idea whether foreigners get the same conditions as nationals.
> How difficult is the DSH? Did you have to study for it a lot?
Before everybody gets excited about the low tuition in Germany, take a closer
look at the situation at many German universities.
They are overcrowded, many professors are arrogant and not approachable, the
facilities like libraries are closed at the worst times, the universities have
no regard for the student's need to complete his/her studies in a reasonable
time, the cost of living in Germany is one of the highest in the world (
definitely higher than in the US) etc.
So before you go, read up on the situation. Even popular magazines like STERN,
SPIEGEL, and FOCUS had critical and reasonably thorough reports recently.
Cheap is not always the best buy.
There are lots of better reasons to go to and enjoy Germany !
Peter Alfke, Los Altos Hills.
Rob Strickland
> > I'm getting asked about this a lot, but since I'm German I had
> > no idea whether foreigners get the same conditions as nationals.
> > How difficult is the DSH? Did you have to study for it a lot?
Stefan,
I haven't taken the DSH yet, however, when I spent a semester studying in
Bonn last year a number of my fellow students took it and all passed.
Although their reports differed somewhat, they all seemed to agree that it
was not as grueling as they expected. Take that with a grain of salt though
because each University in Germany is more or less autonomous and it may be
that the exams will differ in content and difficulty. From what I understand
it is not standardized in the way that American testing is, especially if
there is an oral component.
I would also agree with Peter's cautionary statements. I'm sure you're aware
of this Stefan, but I would point out for the benefit of others that the
German University system is quite different from the American in a number of
ways and is not for everyone. The average German student spends almost twice
as long in school as the average American student, in part because the
University is not concerned with getting students in and out in a 'timely'
manner. This is because there is no profit motive to do so in an almost
completely socially subsidized system like the one in Germany. I would not
recommend that someone go to school in Germany without first looking into
what they are getting into. A semester or year study abroad program is a
good way to get a first hand look at the system to see if it will work for
your particular situation. The price (and I apologize for having jokingly
suggested otherwise) should not be your first consideration. Especially when
you add in the fact that earning a living as a student in a foreign country
can be difficult or impossible to do. 180 DM/semester is not a lot but it's
a fortune if you don't have a work permit.
Rob Strickland
cars...@webtv.net
working for the american armed forces. It doesn't matter what she does,
as long as she gets a Nato stamp in her passport and a civilian military
ID card. If she has one of these blessed documents, (and if you are
married to her you would get one too), she doesn't have to pay the TV
tax, no road tax, no need for a work permit, even if the ID card holder
gets a part time job "on the economy", ie for a german firm, tax free
cigs and booze, PX privelages, etc.
I went to germany originally as a tourist. I decided that I wanted to
stay and found a job at the american army base in Munich. Slowly but
surely I "lived myself in (mich eingelebt habe)" to the german community
until I eventually gave up my ties to the military. It gave me time to
set up and the time that I was on base counted towards my time for
getting an unrestricted residence permit.
There are not so many possibilities now as then, since the US armed
forces in germany have downsized, but there are still some
possibilities, and she probably won't have much chance on the german
work market anyway, with very little german and the fact that it is very
hard to get a first time work permit for a job that anybody already
there would want. If you want to wash dishes, you can always find a job
since nobody wants to do it, and that is a well known starting point for
foreigners in germany. My own first job on the GERMAN economy was
washing dishes. But interesting jobs are usually wanted by germans or
resident foreigners with unrestricted work permits.
Gute Reise
Carsten
Trevor Smithson
wrote:
>
>
>Stefan Doll wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>> <snip>Tuition runs about
>> > 180DM. That's why I'm moving there.
>>
>> Thanks that's exactly the sort of info I was looking for.
>> I'm getting asked about this a lot, but since I'm German I had
>> no idea whether foreigners get the same conditions as nationals.
>> How difficult is the DSH? Did you have to study for it a lot?
>
>Before everybody gets excited about the low tuition in Germany, take a closer
>look at the situation at many German universities.
>They are overcrowded, many professors are arrogant and not approachable, the
>facilities like libraries are closed at the worst times, the universities have
>no regard for the student's need to complete his/her studies in a reasonable
>time, the cost of living in Germany is one of the highest in the world (
>definitely higher than in the US) etc.
>So before you go, read up on the situation. Even popular magazines like STERN,
>SPIEGEL, and FOCUS had critical and reasonably thorough reports recently.
>Cheap is not always the best buy.
>There are lots of better reasons to go to and enjoy Germany !
>
>Peter Alfke, Los Altos Hills.
Peter makes a very goof point, low price should not be the deciding
factor. You could enroll at the University of Mexico in Mexico City;
you know, the one with 300,000 students that is so bad employers
specifically state in job ads that they don't accept students from
there!
Thomas Boroske
Hello,
just wanted my to add my 2pence ...
BTW, I惴 studying computer science in Braunschweig.
trevor_...@yahoo.com (Trevor Smithson) writes:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:19:09 -0700, Peter Alfke <pe...@xilinx.com>
> wrote:
> >Before everybody gets excited about the low tuition in Germany, take a closer
> >look at the situation at many German universities.
> >They are overcrowded,
That depends on what you study and where. CS student numbers have been
below the number of available places for years.
> many professors are arrogant
Hmmm ? Depends on the professor...
> and not approachable, the
> >facilities like libraries are closed at the worst times,
This depends on the uni. I know university libraries that have open
all night, in Hannover you have access to computer rooms and such
24hours a day. Our library is only open until 19h, computing centre
until 22h (reduced on saturday/sunday).
> the universities have
> >no regard for the student's need to complete his/her studies in a reasonable
> >time,
No regard ?
> the cost of living in Germany is one of the highest in the world (
> >definitely higher than in the US)
Guess so.
> >So before you go, read up on the situation. Even popular magazines like STERN,
> >SPIEGEL, and FOCUS had critical and reasonably thorough reports
> recently.
My impression is there愀 very little useful information to be had
from those articles. YMMV.
> >Cheap is not always the best buy.
There seems to be a misconception that the 180 DM (or so, it愀 216
here) you pay to the uni twice a year are used to pay for your
education. That is not so, the money goes for various things like
1) You get a ticket for public transport
2) Some money goes to various student organizations ("Asta" and such)
3) Since last year, some unis request some money for "Administration"
(keep your file updated or whatever). This is 100 DM here...
The unis are public, so are totally funded by the state/the county.
Regarding going there if you are from America: That愀 theoretically
possible, there are several student-exchange programs in place.
If you愉e from an EC member country, it愀 of course easier.
Kind regards,
--
Thomas Boroske
Juergen Hubert
>
> Hello,
>
> just wanted my to add my 2pence ...
>
> BTW, I惴 studying computer science in Braunschweig.
>
> trevor_...@yahoo.com (Trevor Smithson) writes:
>
> > On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:19:09 -0700, Peter Alfke <pe...@xilinx.com>
> > wrote:
> > >Before everybody gets excited about the low tuition in Germany, take a closer
> > >look at the situation at many German universities.
> > >They are overcrowded,
>
> That depends on what you study and where. CS student numbers have been
> below the number of available places for years.
The same goes for most of the natural sciences. Granted, I would advise
against studying Law or Business here - these courses are overcrowded,
there is lots of competition between the students, and one of the awowed
goals of many tests is to weed out the students. But if you're into
fields like physics, computer science, or engineering, it is different -
those fields have very few students at the moment. The only thing to
watch out for are professors who might want you to do your thesis
project in their department... ;-)
> > many professors are arrogant
>
> Hmmm ? Depends on the professor...
True. Although it must be said that, because virtually all of the
professors have tenure, finding good ones is really hit-or-miss...
> > the universities have
> > >no regard for the student's need to complete his/her studies in a reasonable
> > >time,
>
> No regard ?
Again, that depends on the department. In some courses, there is an
upper limit to the number of students that can be in it, and so it is
hard to complete your studies in time if you can't get into those
courses. Thankfully, that is mostly limited to the fields that are
overcrowded anyway (like Law and Business...)
> > >So before you go, read up on the situation. Even popular magazines like STERN,
> > >SPIEGEL, and FOCUS had critical and reasonably thorough reports
> > recently.
>
> My impression is there愀 very little useful information to be had
> from those articles. YMMV.
Mine, too. From what I've heard about the "research" done by those
magazines, their results should be taken with a huge grain of salt...
> > >Cheap is not always the best buy.
>
> There seems to be a misconception that the 180 DM (or so, it愀 216
> here) you pay to the uni twice a year are used to pay for your
> education. That is not so, the money goes for various things like
> 1) You get a ticket for public transport
> 2) Some money goes to various student organizations ("Asta" and such)
> 3) Since last year, some unis request some money for "Administration"
> (keep your file updated or whatever). This is 100 DM here...
At my university (Erlangen-Nuernberg) it's 45DM per term for the
Students' Union (Asta is outlawed in Bavaria...). We don't get tickets
for public transport, but here in Erlangen you need to use a bicycle
anyway...
- Juergen Hubert