Starship Troopers - Johnny Rico's race
Tangents
Jun Yan wrote:
>
> > There have been a lot of complaints about how Verhoven changed
> > Rico to a blond haired blue eyed aryan...but, I think Verhoven with his
> > typical tounge-in-cheek style, is trying to satirize the American war/action
> > hero in a subtle way. I dunno, that's my take.
>
> I'm not ready to give Verhoven that much credit. The casting choice
> bothered me A LOT. If they had to cast white actors, at least cast
> someone who look interesting rather than standard Melrose Place type ...
> Wait a minute, they ARE from Melrose Place. They're the Aaron Spelling
> kids! Just imagine how much fun it would be to cast interesting looking,
> nameless, unusual ethnic actors in this film.
>
> jun
You haven't seen the movie yet. If you do you'll notice a lot of
non-white faces. One of the things I noticed while waching the film was
that there are a some characters with names that don't seem to match
their race. My impression is that Verhoven is showing a truely
integrated society. Sure, it's a bit on the pasty side but you see a lot
of different races mixed up the the groups (hell, the Skymarshal is a
black woman) and the names are very ethnically diverse.
--
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Rich Rostrom
In article <63rhon$1lg4$1...@news.gate.net>, cas...@gate.net wrote:
> I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to himself.
> When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
>
> "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
> you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
> "But what language was it?"
> "Tagalog. My native language."
>
> So why does the actor playing his part look so Nordic? I know it's not a
> major plot point, but Heinlein didn't put it in there just to pad the book
> out.
No. He put it there as a acknowledgement of Filipino service in the US Navy,
which continued long after the independence of the Philippines.
.
> BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
> Who was he?
Ramon Magsaysay was President of the Philippines in 1956-1960.
Earlier, he served as Secretary of Defense, and is generally credited
with saving the country from the "Hukbalahap" rebels in 1950-53. When
Magsaysay was brought into the government, the fall of Manila was predicted
within three months. His military reforms not only turned back the rebels,
but virtually ended the rebellion within three years.
--
Rich Rostrom | You could have hit him over the head with it and he
| wouldn't have minded. He never did mind being hit
R-Rostrom@ | with small things like guns and axe handles.
neiu.edu | - Ellis Parker Butler, "That Pup of Murchison's"
Ralph Barbagallo
There have been a lot of complaints about how Verhoven changed
Rico to a blond haired blue eyed aryan...but, I think Verhoven with his
typical tounge-in-cheek style, is trying to satirize the American war/action
hero in a subtle way. I dunno, that's my take.
*Ralph Barbagallo http://www.cs.uml.edu/~rbarbaga *rbar...@cs.uml.edu*
"I have known many game designers; they encompass a broad range of
personalities. Yet all these disparate people share one common trait;
they all sport towering egos."--Chris Crawford, 1987.
cas...@gate.net
I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to himself.
When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
"Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
"But what language was it?"
"Tagalog. My native language."
So why does the actor playing his part look so Nordic? I know it's not a
major plot point, but Heinlein didn't put it in there just to pad the book out.
BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
Who was he?
Rick DeBay
www.gate.net/~casper
hoobeboo
Ramon Magsaysay was a Pilipino president responsible for quelling the HUK
(communist insurgents) rebellion in the Philippines largely through a
program of land reform. Tagalog is spoken by many pilipinos and is the
national language of the country.
cas...@gate.net wrote in article <63rhon$1lg4$1...@news.gate.net>...
> I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to
himself.
> When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
>
> "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
> you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
> "But what language was it?"
> "Tagalog. My native language."
> .......
hoobeboo
Ramon Magsaysay was a Pilipino president at the time of the HUK (communist
insurgents) rebellion. His policy of in particular took the wind out of
the rebellion. Tagalog is spoken by many Pilipinos and is the national
language of the country.
cas...@gate.net wrote in article <63rhon$1lg4$1...@news.gate.net>...
> I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to
himself.
> When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
>
> "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
> you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
> "But what language was it?"
> "Tagalog. My native language."
>
bgray
On 5 Nov 1997, Jun Yan wrote:
> Just imagine how much fun it would be to cast interesting looking,
> nameless, unusual ethnic actors in this film.
Yeah! And then watch as they get ripped apart by those alien insects, as
their guts get spilt all over, as their brains get sucked out... Cool!
John Moreno
In rec.arts.sf.written <cas...@gate.net> wrote:
] I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to
] himself. When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
]
] "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
] you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart
] is.'"
] "But what language was it?"
] "Tagalog. My native language."
]
] So why does the actor playing his part look so Nordic? I know it's
] not a major plot point, but Heinlein didn't put it in there just to
] pad the book out.
Marketing?
] BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
] Who was he?
Filipino stick fighter I believe.
--
John Moreno
Paul F Austin
John Moreno wrote:
> In rec.arts.sf.written <cas...@gate.net> wrote:
>
> ]] BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
>
> ] Who was he?
>
> Filipino stick fighter I believe.
>
He really _was_ the founder of his country. Magasasay fought the Japs
during WW-II and was the first president of the Republic after
independence.
--
Conscience is that quiet little voice that says "Someone may be
watching."
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
Jun Yan
Your point is?
jun
K. Hu
On Thu, 06 Nov 1997 17:41:18 -0500, guacamole
<ain...@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
>What was it that Johnny said to himself? (in filipino)
It's not specified.
Robert A. Woodward
In article <3462b575...@news.u.washington.edu>,
nospa...@u.washington.edu (K. Hu) wrote:
I belive that he translated it as "Home is where the heart is." But I
wonder why Heinlein didn't include the Tagalog original? It is not that
there were no speakers of Tagalog in USA in 1958 (even in Colorado I would
have thought).
Spooky Spook
On Wed, 05 Nov 1997 14:07:01 -0600, R-Ro...@neiu.edu (Rich Rostrom)
wrote:
#In article <63rhon$1lg4$1...@news.gate.net>, cas...@gate.net wrote:
#
#> I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to himself.
#> When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
#>
#> "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
#> you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
#> "But what language was it?"
#> "Tagalog. My native language."
#>
#> BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
#> Who was he?
#
#Ramon Magsaysay was President of the Philippines in 1956-1960.
#
#Earlier, he served as Secretary of Defense, and is generally credited
#with saving the country from the "Hukbalahap" rebels in 1950-53. When
#Magsaysay was brought into the government, the fall of Manila was predicted
#within three months. His military reforms not only turned back the rebels,
#but virtually ended the rebellion within three years.
#--
Correct me if I am wrong, but the HukBaLaHap was formed in order to
harras the Japanese army in the height of their conquest in Asia
including Philippines, the main purpose is to harass, assasinate top
official and guerilla warfare. Hukbalahap full word is Hukbo ng Bayan
Laban sa Hapon. After the war these hardened fighter disappear only to
re-appear later as an anti-government rebels.
Joseph Askew
Paul F Austin (pau...@digital.net) wrote:
: He really _was_ the founder of his country. Magasasay fought the Japs
: during WW-II and was the first president of the Republic after
: independence.
That's just a little harsh on all those other Philippinos who
fought for a free and independent Philippines. He is perhaps
the one that the US administration at the time liked to build
up as the founder of his country (so many other potential
founders of the country having fought the US or Spain or
both) but that doesn't mean he was the only candidate. The
founder of the modern Philippine state perhaps.
Joseph
--
Remember. This Election : Vote [1] The Death to Ray Martin Party
Dan Bongard
: cas...@gate.net wrote:
:> So why does the actor playing his part look so Nordic? I know it's not a
:> major plot point, but Heinlein didn't put it in there just to pad the book
:> out.
I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is well-established
in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned. The world
of "Starship Troopers" seems much more mixed than our own; Juan has a teacher
named Dubois and a best friend from childhood named Carl, after all.
Mind you, "nordic" doesn't seem very appropriate, but hey.
-- Dan
Doug Tricarico
>> On 5 Nov 1997, Jun Yan wrote:
>>
>> Just imagine how much fun it would be to cast interesting looking,
>> nameless, unusual ethnic actors in this film.
Haven't seen STARSHIP TROOPERS (nor will I, until a friend tapes it off
of HBO for free), but I was interested in seeing the special effects
work, so I watched a making-of show recently.
The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades." Seemed like each
actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
Doug
christian d. ninsananda
I thought the same thing about Gattaca.
Thunderballs
Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
:I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is well-established
: in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
IN ADDITION, I think it was in the afterwords of one of his books, but
I'm pretty sure that Samuel Delaney, the great science fiction writer who
was a contemporary of Heinlein (and is still alive today) talks about this
ethnicity issue of Starship Troopers in detail. Supposedly, Heinlein served
in the Navy in World War II, and was bothered by the fact that even though
Americans were fighting in the Phillipines against Japan, almost none of the
Filipinos in the US Navy were allowed to serve on battleships in any capacity
other than as cooks. And you can bet that they weren't bad-ass combat cooks,
like Steven Seagal. Also, at the time, Filipinos were called "blacks" by
mainstream Americans; I dunno the veracity of this, but Delaney claims it
was so.
NOT only this, but Heinlein also saw how many Japanese-Americans
who were fighting in the Pacific theater were not acknowledged in or by
the American public. So he wrote a book where the protagonist was a
Filipino from Buenos Aires, and another mobile infantry character is
clearly Japanese. Not only was the other character Japanese, but he is
the only recruit who is able to wrassle' with Sergent Zim which, given
post-World War II attitudes about Japanese men, is pretty revolutionary
for any American literary genre.
If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
type.
AY
: The world
: of "Starship Troopers" seems much more mixed than our own; Juan has a teacher
: named Dubois and a best friend from childhood named Carl, after all.
: Mind you, "nordic" doesn't seem very appropriate, but hey.
: -- Dan
--
-- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- --
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"Hold On." Next came their song "Release Me." It's like,
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--- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- ---
K. Hu
On Thu, 06 Nov 1997 21:57:35 -0800, robe...@halcyon.com (Robert A.
Woodward) wrote:
>In article <3462b575...@news.u.washington.edu>,
>nospa...@u.washington.edu (K. Hu) wrote:
>
>>guacamole <ain...@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
>> >What was it that Johnny said to himself? (in filipino)
>>
>> It's not specified.
>
>I belive that he translated it as "Home is where the heart is." But I
>wonder why Heinlein didn't include the Tagalog original? It is not that
>there were no speakers of Tagalog in USA in 1958 (even in Colorado I would
>have thought).
The phrase 'Home is where the heart is' occurs quite a bit after
Johnny 'mutters something' to himself. I'm not sure that it was
intended as a translation of the Tagalog phrase.
'Home is where the heart is' seems more like a reference to Johnny's
returning to the Rodger Young, since it is 'the Ballad of Rodger
Young' that is played as he says goodbye to Bennie Montez at the end
of that scene.
Chris Goodwin
In article <3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>,
Thunderballs <ajy...@unix.amherst.edu> wrote:
>Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>:I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is well-established
>: in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
>
> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
In the book, it was never stated that Johnny grew up in Buenos Aires.
--
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Ruud van de Kruisweg
On 6 Nov 1997 00:00:25 -0500, rbar...@cs.uml.edu (Ralph Barbagallo) wrote:
> There have been a lot of complaints about how Verhoven changed
>Rico to a blond haired blue eyed aryan...but, I think Verhoven with his
>typical tounge-in-cheek style, is trying to satirize the American war/action
>hero in a subtle way. I dunno, that's my take.
You've got a point here. Verhoeven has put a lot of Nazi-like paraphernalia in
the film: the banners, the military costumes, the lingo. At times it's almost
like he filmed Norman Spinrad's "The Iron Dream" instead of Heinlein's
"Starship Troopers".
Ruud
==
The Terratec EWS64XL Mailing List: http://www.flatearth.demon.nl/ews64xl.htm
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[Note: My email-address has been SPAM-proofed. Use the address in this sig.]
Fallout's Chris
Doug Tricarico (tr...@ix.netcom.com) probably wrote:
: Haven't seen STARSHIP TROOPERS (nor will I, until a friend tapes it off
: of HBO for free), but I was interested in seeing the special effects
: work, so I watched a making-of show recently.
: The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
: song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades." Seemed like each
: actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
: clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
I just got back from seeing it, and the movie is very diverse.
They at least make the attempt to racially balance the film. The three
(well four) leads are the same color, but it makes sense within the context
of the film.
I thought the point in the book (and they did a reasonable
good job in the movie, heck the military leader is a black female) was
that race did not matter. Service or no-service did.
pax,
--
"Wait, wait, just a second. Now we've got to think here. Now let's see.
What would Brian Boitano do?" - Stan
Send technical support questions to: sup...@interplay.com
Chris Taylor --- ana...@netcom.com --- http://www.interplay.com/fallout
Elisabeth Carey
"Thunderballs" <ajy...@unix.amherst.edu> wrote in article
<3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>...
> Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
> :I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is
well-established
> : in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
>
> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
> the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
> refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
> Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
Johnny Rico _didn't_ grow up in Buenos Aires, in the book; his mother was
_visiting_ Buenos Aires when the Bug attack pasted the city.
Lis Carey
Ron Christian
>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
Careful, Rico grew up in Buenos Aires in the *film* -- in the book,
he doesn't specifically state where he's from (the fact that Tagalog
is his native language is adequate indication that his filipino) but
he does specifically state (in the book) that he is *not* from Buenos
Aires and had no emotional attachment to the town. (At the time, he
didn't know that his mother was visiting there when the bugs smeared
it.)
You're right, a prominant character is Japanese, and other races are
indicated as well.
> If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
>Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
>sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
>type.
Sadly, from the cast lineup, this appears to be the case. This is another
reason I think that Verhoeven made the coed change for the gratuitous
possibilities. If he had really been interested in showing a mixed
military, he wouldn't have peopled all those ethnic roles with painfully
white actors.
Ron
--
"The problem with being the hatchet man is that you're so
often handed a two-edged hatchet." -- Oliver
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On 7 Nov 97 23:38:37 GMT, ajy...@unix.amherst.edu ("Thunderballs")
wrote:
> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
>refers to Tagalog as his native language.
Buenos Aires is in Argentina, not the Philippines. He didn't grow up
there.
> IN ADDITION, I think it was in the afterwords of one of his books, but
>I'm pretty sure that Samuel Delaney, the great science fiction writer who
>was a contemporary of Heinlein (and is still alive today) talks about this
>ethnicity issue of Starship Troopers in detail.
Delany's around thirty or forty years younger than Heinlein -- I
quibble with calling them contemporaries. I mean, their lives
overlapped, yeah, but that's a major generational difference there.
Sorry to nitpick.
--
TOUCHED BY THE GODS: Hardcover, Tor Books, now available! $24.95
The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Update in progress
Matt Hickman
In <640df5$t...@scel.sequent.com>, r...@sequent.com (Ron Christian) writes:
>
>Careful, Rico grew up in Buenos Aires in the *film* -- in the book,
>he doesn't specifically state where he's from (the fact that Tagalog
>is his native language is adequate indication that his filipino) but
>he does specifically state (in the book) that he is *not* from Buenos
>Aires and had no emotional attachment to the town. (At the time, he
>didn't know that his mother was visiting there when the bugs smeared
Actually there are other clues that Juan grew up in the Philippines.
E.g., he saw neo-dogs at the MacArthur (sp?) theater, Douglas MacArthur
having a significant impact on the history of the Philippines, I would
suspect that there were nearly as many buildings named after him in
the Philippines od _Starship Troopers_ as Magsaysay.
Matt Hickman
cas...@gate.net
In the few web pages not devoted to the current senator in the Phillipines
with his name, he is credited as being the seventh president (I may have
that wrong, but I never found a page claiming he was the first. Ah, to have
my parents encyclopedia brittanica...)
cas...@gate.net
I thought it was interesting how race wasn't mentioned much until
the end. At that point, you had to realign your images of all the
characters. The philosophy was all still garbage though, and it
got worse with every book he wrote :-(
In <3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>, ajy...@unix.amherst.edu ("Thunderballs") writes:
>Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>:I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is well-established
>: in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
>
> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
>
> IN ADDITION, I think it was in the afterwords of one of his books, but
>I'm pretty sure that Samuel Delaney, the great science fiction writer who
>was a contemporary of Heinlein (and is still alive today) talks about this
>ethnicity issue of Starship Troopers in detail. Supposedly, Heinlein served
>in the Navy in World War II, and was bothered by the fact that even though
>Americans were fighting in the Phillipines against Japan, almost none of the
>Filipinos in the US Navy were allowed to serve on battleships in any capacity
>other than as cooks. And you can bet that they weren't bad-ass combat cooks,
>like Steven Seagal. Also, at the time, Filipinos were called "blacks" by
>mainstream Americans; I dunno the veracity of this, but Delaney claims it
>was so.
>
> NOT only this, but Heinlein also saw how many Japanese-Americans
>who were fighting in the Pacific theater were not acknowledged in or by
>the American public. So he wrote a book where the protagonist was a
>Filipino from Buenos Aires, and another mobile infantry character is
>clearly Japanese. Not only was the other character Japanese, but he is
>the only recruit who is able to wrassle' with Sergent Zim which, given
>post-World War II attitudes about Japanese men, is pretty revolutionary
>for any American literary genre.
>
> If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
>Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
>sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
>type.
cas...@gate.net
In <3462478D...@wharton.upenn.edu>, guacamole <ain...@wharton.upenn.edu> writes:
>What was it that Johnny said to himself? (in filipino)
Heinlein never said. Just that it was close to "home is where the heart
is." Which isn't any Tagalog saying that I've heard (in my very limited
experience). Most of them are "pass me the BBQ." :-)
cas...@gate.net
I knew Tagalog (with about a billion dialects) was the language of the
Phillipines (see my web page) but for all my searching on Mr. Magsaysay,
all I could find out was that he was a fighter and the seventh president.
Most of the web hits found the college named after him, and this Phillipino
senator ranting about tourism.
In <01bcea7b$b5d2cf60$913b...@frank.globalpac.com>, "hoobeboo" <fr...@linkline.com> writes:
>Ramon Magsaysay was a Pilipino president at the time of the HUK (communist
>insurgents) rebellion. His policy of in particular took the wind out of
>the rebellion. Tagalog is spoken by many Pilipinos and is the national
>language of the country.
>
>cas...@gate.net wrote in article <63rhon$1lg4$1...@news.gate.net>...
>> I just reread the novel, and at the end Johnny Rico says something to
>himself.
>> When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
>>
>> "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
>> you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
>> "But what language was it?"
>> "Tagalog. My native language."
>>
>> So why does the actor playing his part look so Nordic? I know it's not a
>> major plot point, but Heinlein didn't put it in there just to pad the
>book out.
>>
>> BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
cas...@gate.net
In <R-Rostrom-051...@ip97-46.neiu.edu>, R-Ro...@neiu.edu (Rich Rostrom) writes:
>In article <63rhon$1lg4$1...@news.gate.net>, cas...@gate.net wrote:
>
>> When Bernardo asks him what he said, Johnny replies:
>>
>> "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
>> you could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.'"
>> "But what language was it?"
>> "Tagalog. My native language."
>>
>> So why does the actor playing his part look so Nordic? I know it's not a
>> major plot point, but Heinlein didn't put it in there just to pad the book
>> out.
>
>which continued long after the independence of the Philippines.
Yah. I have a cousin-in-law serving on a carrier. My sisters ex-boyfriend
was a third generation marine.
>> BTW, Johnny also mentions Ramon Magsaysay in the same conversation.
>> Who was he?
>
>Ramon Magsaysay was President of the Philippines in 1956-1960.
>
>Earlier, he served as Secretary of Defense, and is generally credited
>with saving the country from the "Hukbalahap" rebels in 1950-53. When
>Magsaysay was brought into the government, the fall of Manila was predicted
>within three months. His military reforms not only turned back the rebels,
>but virtually ended the rebellion within three years.
>--
>Rich Rostrom | You could have hit him over the head with it and he
> | wouldn't have minded. He never did mind being hit
>R-Rostrom@ | with small things like guns and axe handles.
>neiu.edu | - Ellis Parker Butler, "That Pup of Murchison's"
Manil...@nospam_prodigy.net
Doug Tricarico wrote:
>
> Haven't seen STARSHIP TROOPERS (nor will I, until a friend tapes it off
> of HBO for free), but I was interested in seeing the special effects
> work, so I watched a making-of show recently.
>
> The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
> song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades." Seemed like each
> actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
> clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
>
I rarely reply to posts like these but it just cracked me up so much.
Are you talking about Gary Busey?
On the serious side I think casting directors choose actors they think
the targeted audience will relate to. I think the only time ethnic
actors are choosen for lead characters are when they're well known or
have a lot of pull in Hollywood. For example Wil Smith from Independence
Day and Men In Black. If you are wondering about Filipino actors
specifically (all this talk about the original character in the book is
a Filipino), I don't think there is a Filipino actor in Hollywood yet,
(maybe in the future), who can fit the character. I could be wrong, can
you name someone?
Tikbalang
>Manila_Girl@NOSPAM_prodigy.net
>Date: Sat, Nov 8, 1997 05:12 EST
>Message-id: <34643B03.2EB0@NOSPAM_prodigy.net>wrote:
>
>Doug Tricarico wrote:
>
> If you are wondering about Filipino actors
>specifically (all this talk about the original character in the book is
>a Filipino), I don't think there is a Filipino actor in Hollywood yet,
>(maybe in the future), who can fit the character. I could be wrong, can
>you name someone?
>
>
>
Filipinos and their names are already established in the silver screen.
Adrian Penalo
I agree with the sarcasm of this thread's title! Although, to be
Hispanic or Anglo doesn't necessary indicate your race (they both have
white, black, asian-like members), they could choose more actual
Hispanic actors for main roles. After all, the protagonist are
Hispanic/Filipino Argentinians!
--
Adrian Penalo
Miami, FL (USA)
Plain and Simple Cronan
Fallout's Chris wrote
> I just got back from seeing it, and the movie is very diverse.
>They at least make the attempt to racially balance the film. The three
>(well four) leads are the same color, but it makes sense within the context
>of the film.
Bullshit. Nearly everyone in the background is white as snow. There are
token pblacks placed here and there throughout the film but the damn thing
is about as racist as you can get.
> I thought the point in the book (and they did a reasonable
>good job in the movie, heck the military leader is a black female) was
>that race did not matter. Service or no-service did.
Bullshit. Token niggers don't impress this negro.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
on the universe
Elisabeth Carey
Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote in article
<641rkp$l...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
>
> "Thunderballs" wrote
> > If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
> >Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the
movie
> >sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
> >type.
> > AY
>
> likely you are to die a horrible death.
Yeah, that explains why the two guys that get their brains sucked out are
white.
Lis Carey
Plain and Simple Cronan
Doug Tricarico wrote
>Haven't seen STARSHIP TROOPERS (nor will I, until a friend tapes it off
>of HBO for free), but I was interested in seeing the special effects
>work, so I watched a making-of show recently.
>
>The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
>song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades." Seemed like each
>actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
>clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
Yes, but they all DIE!!! I am not kidding and it pissed this negro off
something fierce
J Ganaposki
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> "Thunderballs" wrote
> > If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
> >Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
> >sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
> >type.
> > AY
>
> It is worse than that friend. The darker you are in this movie the more
> likely you are to die a horrible death.
ignored by a CHROMO-RACIST like yourself.
> -- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
> Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
> place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
> http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
> on the universe
--
===========================================================
<> Rt.Rev.Dr.Jeff Ganaposki
<_>mailto:jgm...@bellsouth.net [attachments & HTML]
<__>mailto:livin...@freeyellow.com
<___>mailto:living...@juno.com [ASCII Text only]
<____>http://www.freeyellow.com/members/living-word
<______>Warning: Socialists may be offended by contents
Geoffrey C Marshall
guacamole wrote:
>
> Can anyone guess what it might be?
>
Guesses ?
Accenting, possibly.
Character set, maybe...
Could be it would have added to printing complexity...
Geoff....
> Robert A. Woodward wrote:
>
> > In article <3462b575...@news.u.washington.edu>,
> > nospa...@u.washington.edu (K. Hu) wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 06 Nov 1997 17:41:18 -0500, guacamole
> > > <ain...@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
> > > >What was it that Johnny said to himself? (in filipino)
> > >
> > > It's not specified.
> >
> > I belive that he translated it as "Home is where the heart is." But I
> > wonder why Heinlein didn't include the Tagalog original? It is not
> > that
> > there were no speakers of Tagalog in USA in 1958 (even in Colorado I
> > would
> > have thought).
> >
> > --
> > rawoo...@aol.com
> > robe...@halcyon.com
> > cjp...@prodigy.com
>
> --
> ainsley
> http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~ainsle17
>
> If an unfriendly foreign power had attempted to impose on
> America the mediocre educational performance that exists
> today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.
>
> -- National Commission on Excellence in Education
Justin T. Broderick
Jim M. Pierce wrote:
[...]
> The Filipinos in the USN during WW 2 mostly worked in the wardroom
> as cooks and food servers. The wardroom is the officers' dining
> area.
>
> If any of you see Tora ! Tora ! Tora ! there might still be a
> scene in there that shows an African-American messcook operating a
> 20 mm anti-aircraft gun during the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was
> kiled, and didn't get a medal. Other crew in the same situation did
> receive medals. [...]
Officer's Steward 2nd Class Doris C. Miller of the USS West Virginia was
not killed, and was awarded the Navy Cross on May 27, 1942.
JTB
Rich Rostrom
ajy...@unix.amherst.edu ("Thunderballs") wrote:
> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires...
There is no evidence that Rico lived in Buenos Aires at any time.
It came as a total surprise to him that his mother was killed in the
bombing of Buenos Aires by the Bugs. She was on a trip; Johnny's Aunt
Eleanora seemed to think that if he'd been home his mother would not
have made the trip to Buenos Aires. A long trip - Johnny assumed his
father was also dead, because he would never have sent his wife on
such a long trip by herself. Which was true, except that he'd been
forced by circumstances to leave a day later.
There is no evidence that he lived in any particular place, but
the one place we _know_ didn't live was Buenos Aires.
Unfortunately, the semiliterate producers of the movie didn't
understand this - one them stated that _according_ _to_ _the_
_book_, Johnny is from Buenos Aires.
hoobeboo
I speak tagalog myself and its true that it borrowed several words from
spanish but not its structure. Mabuti for example means good whereas its
equivalent in spanish is bien. Tagalog as a native language is only spoken
in the Philippines.
Iron Czar <iron...@erienet.SUBTRACT-xx-TO-xx-REPLY.net> wrote in article
<641043$mae$1...@nerd.apk.net>...
> In rec.arts.sf.written, arc...@kira.peak.org (Chris Goodwin) spoke
> thusly:
>
> >In article <3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>,
> >Thunderballs <ajy...@unix.amherst.edu> wrote:
> >>Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
> >>
> >>:I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is
well-established
> >>: in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
> >>
> >> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
> >>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when
he
> >>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?"
Either
> >>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
>
> >In the book, it was never stated that Johnny grew up in Buenos Aires.
>
> Tagalog has many Spanish elements in it. The Phillipines were
> controled by the Spanish for around 300 years.
>
> Iron Czar
> iron...@erienet.net
> http://www.erienet.net/~ironczar
>
>
Jo Walton
In article <640us4$pva$1...@kira.peak.org>
arc...@kira.peak.org "Chris Goodwin" writes:
>
> In the book, it was never stated that Johnny grew up in Buenos Aires.
In the book it was really clear that he _didn't_ grow up there, that
his mother was _visiting_ there when it was destroyed as a big surprise
to him later.
--
Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Blue Jo Web Page - Blood of Kings Poetry, Reviews, Interstichia
20 poems by me, 11 poems by Graydon, Momentum Guidelines,
storytelling card games... all at http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
Plain and Simple Cronan
"Thunderballs" wrote
> If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
>Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
>sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
>type.
> AY
It is worse than that friend. The darker you are in this movie the more
likely you are to die a horrible death.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
Richard Alesna
Manila_Girl@NOSPAM_prodigy.net wrote:
> If you are wondering about Filipino actors
> specifically (all this talk about the original character in the book
> is
> a Filipino), I don't think there is a Filipino actor in Hollywood yet,
>
> (maybe in the future), who can fit the character. I could be wrong,
> can
> you name someone?
Perhaps Lou Diamond Philips?
J Ganaposki
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
>
> > I just got back from seeing it, and the movie is very diverse.
> >They at least make the attempt to racially balance the film. The three
> >(well four) leads are the same color, but it makes sense within the context
> >of the film.
European, and Black.
Of course, in the book, Carmencita, Carlos, and Juanito were Filipinos!
> Bullshit. Nearly everyone in the background is white as snow. There are
> token pblacks placed here and there throughout the film but the damn thing
> is about as racist as you can get.
Sure, like the black instructor named "Bronski" - he's got a damn WHITE
name! [Poles take note! Ain't no Polish slave holders in the South to
give THAT name to their slaves...]
> > I thought the point in the book (and they did a reasonable
> >good job in the movie, heck the military leader is a black female) was
> >that race did not matter. Service or no-service did.
>
> Bullshit. Token niggers don't impress this negro.
Are you sure you're a negro? Or are you a "Bronski?"
> -- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
> Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
> place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
> http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
> on the universe
--
Chris Goodwin
In article <878975...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>,
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <640us4$pva$1...@kira.peak.org>
> arc...@kira.peak.org "Chris Goodwin" writes:
>>
>> In the book, it was never stated that Johnny grew up in Buenos Aires.
>
>In the book it was really clear that he _didn't_ grow up there, that
>his mother was _visiting_ there when it was destroyed as a big surprise
>to him later.
You're right. I was a bit tired when I posted that, and while I have a
photographic memory I most certainly do not have an eidetic memory; I
couldn't remember where in the book (as in, approximately how far in and
which side and where on the page) and decided not to stick my foot in my
mouth. :)
>
>--
>Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Blue Jo Web Page - Blood of Kings Poetry, Reviews, Interstichia
>20 poems by me, 11 poems by Graydon, Momentum Guidelines,
>storytelling card games... all at http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
>
--
arc...@peak.org <*> http://www.peak.org/~archer
Libertarian Fiction, Jack Chalker, Corvallis Gamers mailing lists.
* * * http://www.peak.org/~archer/maillist.html * * *
E-Gold transactions accepted! http://www.e-gold.com/
Paul Kekai Manansala
In article <641rkp$l...@camel21.mindspring.com>,
"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>
>"Thunderballs" wrote
>> If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
>>Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
>>sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
>>type.
>> AY
>
>It is worse than that friend. The darker you are in this movie the more
>likely you are to die a horrible death.
>
Assuming that you paid to see the movie, wouldn't it be better not to patronize
such flicks seeing that we knew it advance it was blanco-cized. For
those who really want to see the special effects they could follow the
path of a previous poster who waits for the movie to come out on cable
or satellite and tapes it for friends.
Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
bruce h. nagel
On Fri, 07 Nov 1997 19:11:54 -0800, "christian d. ninsananda"
<f...@leo.infi.net> wrote:
>Doug Tricarico wrote:
>>
>> >> On 5 Nov 1997, Jun Yan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just imagine how much fun it would be to cast interesting looking,
>> >> nameless, unusual ethnic actors in this film.
>>
>> Haven't seen STARSHIP TROOPERS (nor will I, until a friend tapes it off
>> of HBO for free), but I was interested in seeing the special effects
>> work, so I watched a making-of show recently.
>>
>> The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
>> song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades." Seemed like each
>> actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
>> clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
>>
>> Doug
>
>I thought the same thing about Gattaca.
I saw Gattaca last night, and I think that was something of a subtle
point to the film. The characters are the result of a society which
manipulates its genetic line. Since the society is also pretty
conformist, you'll see certain trends become the very dominant norm.
Iron Czar
>In article <3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>,
>Thunderballs <ajy...@unix.amherst.edu> wrote:
>>Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
>>
>>:I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is well-established
>>: in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
>>
>> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
>>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
>>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
>>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
>In the book, it was never stated that Johnny grew up in Buenos Aires.
Tagalog has many Spanish elements in it. The Phillipines were
John Latala
Doug Tricarico wrote:
>
> The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
> song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades." Seemed like each
> actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
> clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
Wasn't it:
"The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."
... or at least that's how I remember it anyway. I remember this
because one of my co-workers admitted to tinking the line was actually
something like thought the line was "The teacher's so bright, I gotta
wear shades." which
[ This space for hire ]
Kelly W. West
> Iron Czar <iron...@erienet.SUBTRACT-xx-TO-xx-REPLY.net> wrote in article
> <641043$mae$1...@nerd.apk.net>...
> > In rec.arts.sf.written, arc...@kira.peak.org (Chris Goodwin) spoke
> > thusly:
> >
> > >In article <3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>,
> > >>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?"
> Either
> > >>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
> >
> > >In the book, it was never stated that Johnny grew up in Buenos Aires.
Johnny never refers to his languange as Tagalog. The only refernece to
tagalog was in speaking about another recruit or infantryman having
trouble with federation standard language.
--
Kelly W. West
Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor,
make him pay cash. R. A. Heinlein
Replace The_Spaminator with kellyw when replying by mail.
Tansong Isda
cas...@gate.net wrote:
> In the few web pages not devoted to the current senator in the Phillipines
> with his name, he is credited as being the seventh president (I may have
> that wrong, but I never found a page claiming he was the first. Ah, to have
> my parents encyclopedia brittanica...)
>
> In <63udte$2fk$3...@towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au>, jas...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes:
> >Paul F Austin (pau...@digital.net) wrote:
> >
> >: He really _was_ the founder of his country. Magasasay fought the Japs
> >: during WW-II and was the first president of the Republic after
> >: independence.
He was not the first president of the Republic, he was the seventh president after Quezon, he was the
second after the Americans gave the Philippines independence, Huks are Hukbo(Army)ng Alsa Laban sa
Hapon(Uprising Against the Japanese). Four uncles and three aunts of mine fought with them. Their
ideologue to Americans in the 1950s is clashing with McCarthyism and the CIA. Magsaysay, made peace
with them and he was rubbed out.
>
>
> >That's just a little harsh on all those other Philippinos who
> >fought for a free and independent Philippines. He is perhaps
> >the one that the US administration at the time liked to build
> >up as the founder of his country (so many other potential
> >founders of the country having fought the US or Spain or
> >both) but that doesn't mean he was the only candidate. The
> >founder of the modern Philippine state perhaps.
> >
> >Joseph
> >
> >--
> >
> > Remember. This Election : Vote [1] The Death to Ray Martin Party
> >
Tansong Isda
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> Fallout's Chris wrote
>
> > I just got back from seeing it, and the movie is very diverse.
> >They at least make the attempt to racially balance the film. The three
> >(well four) leads are the same color, but it makes sense within the context
> >of the film.
>
> Bullshit. Nearly everyone in the background is white as snow. There are
> token pblacks placed here and there throughout the film but the damn thing
> is about as racist as you can get.
>
> > I thought the point in the book (and they did a reasonable
> >good job in the movie, heck the military leader is a black female) was
> >that race did not matter. Service or no-service did.
>
> Bullshit. Token niggers don't impress this negro.
>
> -- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
> Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
> place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
> http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
> on the universe
Token dont impress me either, good thanx for your reply man.
cas...@gate.net
In <640qqm$63s$1...@thorn.cc.usm.edu>, jmpi...@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce) writes:
[snip]
> If any of you see Tora ! Tora ! Tora ! there might still be a
>scene in there that shows an African-American messcook operating a
>20 mm anti-aircraft gun during the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was
>kiled, and didn't get a medal. Other crew in the same situation did
>receive medals. Why did he fire the gun ? The regular gun crew were
>killed during a strafing run by Japanese aircraft. He ran out and
>fired to gun to defend his ship and his shipmates.
I don't know if this is the same guy, but a black gun crew was decimated by
a kamikaze attack on a carrier. They stayed at their post until the plane
hit, and are credited with shooting down a few planes. None of them got
a medal even though the captain of the carrier recommended them.
Just recently the last surviving member got a medal, the navy cross I think.
Rick
>JimP.
>--
> Jim
>"If you didn't want grits, how come you ordered breakfast ?" Jake Vest.
Scott Fluhrer
In <The_Spaminator-...@sl-041.sl.cybercomm.net>
The_Spa...@raven.cybercomm.net (Kelly W. West) writes:
>Johnny never refers to his languange as Tagalog. The only refernece
>to tagalog was in speaking about another recruit or infantryman having
>trouble with federation standard language.
Wrong. Quote from page 205 of my copy (very near the end):
Johnny: "Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I
suppose you could translate it, more or less, as; `Home is
where the heart is.'"
Bernardo: "But what language was it?"
Johnny: "Tagalog. My native language."
>Kelly W. West
poncho
Evelyn C. Leeper
In article <The_Spaminator-...@sl-041.sl.cybercomm.net>,
Kelly W. West <The_Spa...@raven.cybercomm.net> wrote:
> Johnny never refers to his languange as Tagalog.
Yes, he does. Page 205.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper | ele...@lucent.com
+1 732 957 2070 | http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4824
"Those who do not learn from the future are destined to make mistakes in it."
--Warren Miller (New Yorker)
Manil...@nospam_prodigy.net
Tikbalang wrote:
>
> Why not look at Dante Basco or Efren Reyes Jr. These two guys are pure blooded
> Filipinos and their names are already established in the silver screen.
You will have to inform me as I don't know who these actors are. Can
you name some movies they have been in. If they are mainly on Filipino
movies then I probably haven't seen them. I very rarely watch Filipino
movies. I find their quality (not to offend anyone) not that high.
Jim M. Pierce
Rick cas...@gate.net wrote:
[] hit, and are credited with shooting down a few planes. None of
[] them. Just recently the last surviving member got a medal, the
[] navy cross I think.
Yeah. I do believe this is the one I remember, not the one mess
cook.
The survivor appeared on a program on History Channel about the
attack on Pearl Harbor. It was probably last year.
There is one program on History Channel that has lots of bull in
it. 'Victory at Sea' has a number of inaccuracies, even though the
information some are based on was known to be inaccurate. Like
Japanese-Americans firing at the B-17s landing at the emergency
fields during the attack that December morning. No such firings by
Japanese-Americans ever took place, and this was known by the folks
who put together that series of films.
JimP.
--
Jim jmpi...@medea.gp.usm.edu Disclaimer: Standard.
Video: The Breeders 'Cannonball'
Peter Choi
On 10 Nov 1997 03:23:16 GMT, sflu...@ix.netcom.com(Scott Fluhrer)
wrote:
But is there any possibility that Johnny is a Filiphino-American
(Family moved to US...)
cas...@gate.net
Probably.
Bernardo: "Don't they talk Standard English where you come from?
Johnny: "Oh, certainly. For business and school and so forth. We just
talk the old speech around home a little. Traditions. You know."
Rick DeBay
Manil...@nospam_prodigy.net
Richard Alesna wrote:
>
> Perhaps Lou Diamond Philips?
Yes, I thought of him too but I still have a hard time picturing him
in a sci-fi movie. I've seen some of the movies he did that had
supernatural qualities and I can tell you it wasn't pretty.
eda...@cts.com
In <R-Rostrom-081...@ip97-63.neiu.edu>, R-Ro...@neiu.edu (Rich Rostrom) writes:
>ajy...@unix.amherst.edu ("Thunderballs") wrote:
>
>> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires...
>
>There is no evidence that Rico lived in Buenos Aires at any time.
Better yet Page 106 of the Ace paperback ISBN 0-441-78358-9 has the
line:
I remember thinking "Gosh, That's terrrible!" and feeling sorry for
the one Porteno in the ship. But B.A. wasn't my home.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It can't be made any simpler.
--
Show me a cultural relativist at thirty-thousand feet
and I'll show you a hypocrite -- Richard Dawkins
Edmond Dantes eda...@cts.com
http://www.users.cts.com/crash/e/edantes
Matt Hickman
In <3466afc6...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, shin...@hotmail.com (Peter Choi) writes:
>
> But is there any possibility that Johnny is a Filiphino-American
>(Family moved to US...)
Magsaysay is not a national hero anywhere in the Americas.
Matt Hickman
Tikbalang
> Manila_Girl@NOSPAM_prodigy.net
>Date: Mon, Nov 10, 1997 04:41 EST
>Message-id: <3466D6D1.2ABA@NOSPAM_prodigy.net>wrote:
Dante Basco was in the movie "Hook" with William Robin. He played the villain
of Robin (Peter Pan) and was eventually killed by Dustin Hoffman (Hook). I had
seen him also of several movies as a supporting actor of big stars like Steven
Seagall.
I could not understand why you don't know also about Reyes, Jr. for he is very
popular. He was in the movie "Ninja Turtle" and "My bodyguard" a TV Disney
series. He is really good in Karate and Arnis (Filipino martial art).
Tereza Snyder
In article <346167...@ktb.net>, jay...@ktb.net wrote:
>You haven't seen the movie yet. If you do you'll notice a lot of
>non-white faces. One of the things I noticed while waching the film was
yes, but where are the asians? I didn't see even one asian face and
something like 1 out of 4 humans are asian...
ARTIFEX
Act Against Entropy!
R. Tang
In article <6417p5$iec$3...@news.gate.net>, <cas...@gate.net> wrote:
>In <3462478D...@wharton.upenn.edu>, guacamole <ain...@wharton.upenn.edu> writes:
>>What was it that Johnny said to himself? (in filipino)
>
>Heinlein never said. Just that it was close to "home is where the heart
>is." Which isn't any Tagalog saying that I've heard (in my very limited
>experience).
But it is the title of a book by Filipino American author Carlos
Bulosan.
Wonder if Heinlein was aware of Bulosan; there was a bare
possibility as I believe Bulosan had published in the slicks....
Most of them are "pass me the BBQ." :-)
>
--
Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL]
http://www.abcflash.com/arts/r_tang/AATR.html
Declared 4-F in the War Between the Sexes
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:56:02 -0600, ter...@califex.com (Tereza Snyder)
wrote:
1 out of 4? No, it's more than that. 1 out of 4 humans are Chinese;
add in the rest of Asia and it's obviously going to be significantly
more.
--
TOUCHED BY THE GODS: Hardcover, Tor Books, now available! $24.95
The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Last update 11/9/97
Michael Higuchi
Coming in late on this one, but one point of clarification to follow:
ajy...@unix.amherst.edu ("Thunderballs") wrote:
>Dan Bongard (dbon...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>:I would liek to point out that, while Rico's _nationality_ is well-established
>: in the book, his RACE is, so far as I read, never once mentioned.
>
> Yes, but given that he grew up in Buenos Aires, I think you can make
>the reasonable conclusion that he means he is ethnically Filipino when he
>refers to Tagalog as his native language. C'mon, Johnny "Rico?" Either
>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
>
> IN ADDITION, I think it was in the afterwords of one of his books, but
>I'm pretty sure that Samuel Delaney, the great science fiction writer who
>was a contemporary of Heinlein (and is still alive today) talks about this
>ethnicity issue of Starship Troopers in detail. Supposedly, Heinlein served
>in the Navy in World War II, and was bothered by the fact that even though
>Americans were fighting in the Phillipines against Japan, almost none of the
>Filipinos in the US Navy were allowed to serve on battleships in any capacity
>other than as cooks. And you can bet that they weren't bad-ass combat cooks,
>like Steven Seagal. Also, at the time, Filipinos were called "blacks" by
>mainstream Americans; I dunno the veracity of this, but Delaney claims it
>was so.
>
> NOT only this, but Heinlein also saw how many Japanese-Americans
>who were fighting in the Pacific theater were not acknowledged in or by
>the American public. So he wrote a book where the protagonist was a
>Filipino from Buenos Aires, and another mobile infantry character is
>clearly Japanese. Not only was the other character Japanese, but he is
>the only recruit who is able to wrassle' with Sergent Zim which, given
>post-World War II attitudes about Japanese men, is pretty revolutionary
>for any American literary genre.
Americans of Japanese ancestry were not generally allowed to serve in the
Pacific, not even in the Hawaiian home defense forces. Those who
volunteered (my grandfather, for one) fought exclusively in Europe. Some
few others (my great aunt, for one) served in the Pacific in intelligence,
interrogation, interpretation, and interpretation roles.
>
> If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
>Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
>sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
>type.
> AY
>
>
>: The world
>: of "Starship Troopers" seems much more mixed than our own; Juan has a teacher
>: named Dubois and a best friend from childhood named Carl, after all.
>: Mind you, "nordic" doesn't seem very appropriate, but hey.
>
>: -- Dan
- __o Michael Higuchi
- _-\<,_ mhig...@NOSPAMibm.net
- (*)/ (*) Key ID: 0x4AECA14D
Key FP: 31 EE 11 32 B1 9D 85 59 23 A3 6D 70 09 8E 60 8D
Bob Goudreau
John Latala (jla...@humpty.waterloo.attgis.com) wrote:
: Doug Tricarico wrote:
: >
: > The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
: > song... "The future's so white, I gotta wear shades."
: Wasn't it:
: "The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."
Well, sure. That's probably why Doug said that the line with "white"
instead of "bright" is a *take-off* on the original lyrics of the song.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau Data General Corporation
goud...@dg-rtp.dg.com 62 Alexander Drive
+1 919 248 6231 Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA
Elisabeth Carey
Kelly W. West <The_Spa...@raven.cybercomm.net> wrote in article
<The_Spaminator-...@sl-041.sl.cybercomm.net>...
>
> > Iron Czar <iron...@erienet.SUBTRACT-xx-TO-xx-REPLY.net> wrote in
article
> > <641043$mae$1...@nerd.apk.net>...
> > > In rec.arts.sf.written, arc...@kira.peak.org (Chris Goodwin) spoke
> > > thusly:
> > >
> > > >In article <3463a...@amhnt2.amherst.edu>,
> > Either
> > > >>Filipino or some other Spanish-language based ethnicity.
> > >
Aires.
>
> tagalog was in speaking about another recruit or infantryman having
> trouble with federation standard language.
"I'm sure of it." I added something to myself and Bennie said, "What did
you say?"
"Sorry, Bernado. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose you
could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.' "
"But what language was it?"
"Tagalog. My native language."
[p.205]
Lis Carey
Thunderballs
Manila_Girl@NOSPAM_prodigy.net wrote:
: Doug Tricarico wrote:
: a Filipino), I don't think there is a Filipino actor in Hollywood yet,
: (maybe in the future), who can fit the character. I could be wrong, can
: you name someone?
Joel de la Fuente, who was in the sci-fi series "Space: Above and
Beyond," and who is currently on "ER." Watch him - he's getting hotter -
though I don't know if he'll have the same pull as a Will Smith someday. I'll
be pulling for him though.
AY
--
-- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- --
In their first release, Wilson Phillips sang
"Hold On." Next came their song "Release Me." It's like,
damnit woman, make up your mind, you can't have it both ways.
--- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- --- -- ---
Tangents
Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:56:02 -0600, ter...@califex.com (Tereza Snyder)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <346167...@ktb.net>, jay...@ktb.net wrote:
> >>You haven't seen the movie yet. If you do you'll notice a lot of
> >>non-white faces. One of the things I noticed while waching the film was
> >
> >yes, but where are the asians? I didn't see even one asian face and
> >something like 1 out of 4 humans are asian...
>
Well, off hand I can remember seeing an asian couple kissing outside of
Rico's History & Moral Philosophy class. Of course, I wasn't really
scanning the extras for racial diversity.
--
TANGENTS
Your US Source for:
Sci-Fi & Fantasy Models Magazine
Science Fiction Modeller
http://www.ktb.net/~jayadan/tangent.htm
bla...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
J Ganaposki (jgm...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: Sure, like the black instructor named "Bronski" - he's got a damn WHITE
: name! [Poles take note! Ain't no Polish slave holders in the South to
: give THAT name to their slaves...]
How do you know he's 100% black? He could well be part white, and that
white part at least part Polish. That could suggest, within the time
period of _Troopers_, significant inter-racial mixing.
How do you know he couldn't also have been adopted by parents of Polish
ancestry?
===================== ====================================
BLAINE GORDON MANYLUK email: bla...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
EDMONTON, AB
Paul Kekai Manansala
In article <tereza-1011...@192.168.10.13>,
ter...@califex.com (Tereza Snyder) wrote:
>In article <346167...@ktb.net>, jay...@ktb.net wrote:
>>You haven't seen the movie yet. If you do you'll notice a lot of
>>non-white faces. One of the things I noticed while waching the film was
>
>yes, but where are the asians? I didn't see even one asian face and
>something like 1 out of 4 humans are asian...
>
If you consider Indians as Asians, here are over 2 billion Chinese and
South Asians alone. That's about 1 in every 2.5 people. Then you still
have to throw in SE Asians, Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Central Asian
Turks, etc. And the demographic trends forecast greater percentages
of both Africans and Asians in the near future.
Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Fish!
In article <3463D8...@leo.infi.net>, f...@leo.infi.net says...
> Doug Tricarico wrote:
> >
> > >> On 5 Nov 1997, Jun Yan wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Just imagine how much fun it would be to cast interesting looking,
> > >> nameless, unusual ethnic actors in this film.
> >
> > Haven't seen STARSHIP TROOPERS (nor will I, until a friend tapes it off
> > of HBO for free), but I was interested in seeing the special effects
> > work, so I watched a making-of show recently.
> >
> > The first thing that came to mind was a take-off of the Timbuk-3
> > actor was whiter than the last until they got to Busey who's nearly
> > clear. Is there no other ethnicity in the future?
> >
>
> I thought the same thing about Gattaca.
>
who gives a rats arse?
eda...@cts.com
In <tereza-1011...@192.168.10.13>, ter...@califex.com (Tereza Snyder) writes:
>In article <346167...@ktb.net>, jay...@ktb.net wrote:
>>You haven't seen the movie yet. If you do you'll notice a lot of
>>non-white faces. One of the things I noticed while waching the film was
>
>yes, but where are the asians? I didn't see even one asian face and
>something like 1 out of 4 humans are asian...
If it were a conscript millitary that might be a valid point. I spent
six years in the navy and met only two Asian Americans. It is
mentioned in the book that some countries have very high enlistment
rages and others a very low one. I seriously doubt that Veerhoven
thought that through, but it is a plausable explanation.
Kevin Bratager
In article <34643B03.2EB0@NOSPAM_prodigy.net>
Manila_Girl@NOSPAM_prodigy.net writes:
> On the serious side I think casting directors choose actors they think
> the targeted audience will relate to. I think the only time ethnic
> actors are choosen for lead characters are when they're well known or
> have a lot of pull in Hollywood. For example Wil Smith from Independence
> Day and Men In Black. If you are wondering about Filipino actors
> specifically (all this talk about the original character in the book is
> a Filipino), I don't think there is a Filipino actor in Hollywood yet,
> (maybe in the future), who can fit the character. I could be wrong, can
> you name someone?
Can you imagine how much people would be screaming about racism in the
film if it had been a Filipino actor being flogged instead of a white
actor?
--Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------
"If the Good Lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have
invented roller skates." --Willy Wonka
------------------------------------------------------------
My e-mail address has been altered to fustrate spammers.
Please replace the "no.spam" with "earthlink" to reply.
------------------------------------------------------------
James Sanchez
Elisabeth Carey wrote:
> Kelly W. West <The_Spa...@raven.cybercomm.net> wrote in article
>
> "I'm sure of it." I added something to myself and Bennie said, "What did
> you say?"
> "Sorry, Bernado. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose you
> could translate it, more or less, as: 'Home is where the heart is.' "
> "But what language was it?"
> "Tagalog. My native language."
> [p.205]
>
> Lis Carey
Also, early in the book (initial federal service physical exam) the doctor
uses the expression "not worth a centavo"--centavo is a unit of filipino
currency (100 centavos = 1 Peso).
And when Rico gets to boot camp he mentions adjusting to the time zone
difference. Since Camp Currie is in the "Northern Prairie" (assumed to be in
North America) which also tends to eliminate Buenos Aires as Rico's hometown.
I don't think there's any doubt that the Rico character is filipino and lived
in the Philippines.
--
*************
James Sanchez
san...@null.net
http://home.interpac.net/~sanchez
Matt Hickman
In <346b6746...@news.clark.net>, lawr...@clark.net (Lawrence Watt-Evans) writes:
>On Tue, 11 Nov 1997 01:19:56 -1000, James Sanchez <san...@null.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Also, early in the book (initial federal service physical exam) the doctor
>>uses the expression "not worth a centavo"--centavo is a unit of filipino
>>currency (100 centavos = 1 Peso).
>
>also a lot of other things, and to a typical American reading ST when
>it first came out, "centavo" would imply Mexico, not the Philippines.
Combine this with the MacArthur theater reference (where Juan saw a
neodog) and it does point to the Philipines and not to Mexico.
I wonder if Heinlein is also implying the individual states making up
the Terran Federation have enough autonomy to keep their own currencies?
But I doubt that, probably just a saying that stayed in the language long
after Federation currency came into being. In the U.S. we still talk about
bits and its been a while since we cut up Spanish coins as common practice.
Matt Hickman
Tansong Isda
> A centavo is also a unit in at least a dozen other currencies -- or it
> was at the time; some have changed since the book was published.
> (When I was last in Mexico there were no centavos, because at 2800
> pesos to the dollar they didn't need 'em. Since they've revalued they
> may have revived the centavo.)
>
> Anyway, my point is that while centavos are indeed Filipino, they're
> also a lot of other things, and to a typical American reading ST when
> it first came out, "centavo" would imply Mexico, not the Philippines.
Mexico call their 'pennies' centimes', not centavos. I got some at home.
Bob Goudreau
James Sanchez (san...@null.net) wrote:
: Also, early in the book (initial federal service physical exam) the doctor
: uses the expression "not worth a centavo"--centavo is a unit of filipino
: currency (100 centavos = 1 Peso).
But that in itself doesn't identify the currency as exclusively
Filipino, since pesos and centavos are used and have been used
in *lots* of other Spanish-speaking countries as well, including
today's Argentina.
John M. Gamble
In article <3463dd8...@news.demon.nl>,
Ruud van de Kruisweg <kruisweg@_NOSPAM_flatearth.demon.nl> wrote:
>On 6 Nov 1997 00:00:25 -0500, rbar...@cs.uml.edu (Ralph Barbagallo) wrote:
>
>> There have been a lot of complaints about how Verhoven changed
>>Rico to a blond haired blue eyed aryan...but, I think Verhoven with his
>>typical tounge-in-cheek style, is trying to satirize the American war/action
>>hero in a subtle way. I dunno, that's my take.
>
>You've got a point here. Verhoeven has put a lot of Nazi-like paraphernalia in
>the film: the banners, the military costumes, the lingo. At times it's almost
>like he filmed Norman Spinrad's "The Iron Dream" instead of Heinlein's
>"Starship Troopers".
>
According to Micheal Wilmington, movie reviewer for the Chicago Tribune,
Verhoeven refered to Starship Troopers's society as Fascist Utopia.
Which is probably why you see those Nazi trappings.
-john
February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>Also, early in the book (initial federal service physical exam) the doctor
>uses the expression "not worth a centavo"--centavo is a unit of filipino
>currency (100 centavos = 1 Peso).
A centavo is also a unit in at least a dozen other currencies -- or it
was at the time; some have changed since the book was published.
(When I was last in Mexico there were no centavos, because at 2800
pesos to the dollar they didn't need 'em. Since they've revalued they
may have revived the centavo.)
Anyway, my point is that while centavos are indeed Filipino, they're
also a lot of other things, and to a typical American reading ST when
it first came out, "centavo" would imply Mexico, not the Philippines.
AC21209
After reading much of the dismay on Starship Troopers, I trooped on down to the
local cineplex and caught a screening today.
First off, I must admit that the prior knowledge (from posts on here) about the
original heritage of Juan Rico certainly took away from my enjoyment of the
film.
However, society in those times certainly did seem very mixed to me. With the
exception of the lead actors (and a good number of the principals) the crowd
was rather diverse. I was rather pleased to see that the producers decided to
keep the rather Hispanic-sounding names like Rico and Carmen Ibanez (Denise
Richards- who I thought was rather good-looking).
Interesting movie that I thought was fantastically great (but my definition
goes beyond most people), and has sparked enough interest for me to go out and
seek the book for more.
***********************************
You Know Who
Motion Picture Production Manager
ac2...@aol.com
AC21209
Manila Girl was writing about Casting Directors...
Casting Directors are not typically worried about choosing actors they think
target audiences will relate to. That's not the job of the Casting Director.
Moreover, the Casting Director is interesting in satisfying the desires and
visions of the Director (first and most importantly) and the Producer, then
the Studio.
The whitening of the main cast of Starship Troopers may have been the decision
of Paul Verhoeven (the director), the producer or the studio. Actually
figuring out exactly who made these choices is the most difficult task of all.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Tim McGaughy wrote
>: It is worse than that friend. The darker you are in this movie the more
>: likely you are to die a horrible death.
>
>errrrm....
>
>Did we see the same movie?
Probably not.
>Apart from the fact that the three main characters are all disgustingly
>white, and survived....
>
>Damn near EVERYONE else died, REGARDLESS of skin color.
Nope. You will notice that everyone in the Roughnecks who was darker than a
bedspread died, extremely painfully while several lighter characters, within
feet of thme sometimes, managed to walk away unscathed.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
"I got so many lawyers lining up to see me you'd think that I
had tobacco leaking from my breast implants" - NewsRadio
http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm
Geoffrey C Marshall
Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 Nov 1997 01:19:56 -1000, James Sanchez <san...@null.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Also, early in the book (initial federal service physical exam) the doctor
> >uses the expression "not worth a centavo"--centavo is a unit of filipino
> >currency (100 centavos = 1 Peso).
>
> A centavo is also a unit in at least a dozen other currencies -- or it
> was at the time; some have changed since the book was published.
> (When I was last in Mexico there were no centavos, because at 2800
> pesos to the dollar they didn't need 'em. Since they've revalued they
> may have revived the centavo.)
>
> Anyway, my point is that while centavos are indeed Filipino, they're
> also a lot of other things, and to a typical American reading ST when
> it first came out, "centavo" would imply Mexico, not the Philippines.
>
Not just Americans. I read Starship Trooupers first in
(I think) 1966. At that time, I didn't know of Magasay
and when I read the book, the centavo made *me* assume
Mexican. I got to the end of the book, came across the
Tagalog reference, and just assumed an inconsistency or
error (didn't know about the Philipine centavo at the time).
Given an American author and a centavo, Mexico was
a natural assumption. Not just for Americans.
Geoff...
Tim McGaughy
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: "Thunderballs" wrote
: > If you look at the book from this perspective, then you can see that
: >Heinlein is trying to make a very powerful point. And, frankly, the movie
: >sorta washed it away by making the main character a Hitler's-wet-dream
: >type.
: > AY
: It is worse than that friend. The darker you are in this movie the more
: likely you are to die a horrible death.
errrrm....
Did we see the same movie?
Apart from the fact that the three main characters are all disgustingly
Francis Matsutoya Ramos
The movie was pretty entertaining. The effects were good. The movie
also had the usual Verhoeven(?) irreverence to violence and gore.
Hmmmm...it would have been more interesting if there had actually been
mention of him being of Filipino descent.
Did anyone see the Cinderella made by Whitney Houston? It had a Filipino
for a prince. Interesting.......
FM Ramos
nos...@ix.netcom.com
Starship troopers is suppose to be a parody/tributeto the old 50's sci
fi B movies. Similar to ID4 except that ST is less serious about it
and has a running joke throughoutthe movie. The characters are
supposed to reflect those movies and thats why everyone looks like
they came from Iowa...because evryone from those B movies looked like
that. The lines are SUPER cheesy and they are suposed to be that way.
Even doogie houser was supposed to be that Geeky smart kid in every
old sci fi movie. ST is basically an old B movie from the 50's with
great specialeffects and excellant production and direction. It is
very very sucessful at what it tries to do. If you doubt this
remember the line..
"We think there is a bug no one has ever seen..we call it...the brain
bug"
>
>>
>>Hmmm.....
>>
>>I haven't seen it yet. May not after all this, but can someone
>>tell me what race the person giving the flogging was ?
>>
>>That could have had some interesting ramifications and reactions.
>>If they had ebough "courage" to make it a black flogging a white,
>>then that would be justification for making Rico white....
>>
>>Depending on how you interpret it of course...
>>
>>
>>Geoff...
>>
>
>You've gotta be kidding! Giving such serious social and political
>implications, to a scene in an inane and vapid film like "Starship
>Troopers," borders on the ridiculous.
>
>T.Cruise
(my sig) In reality I like the luncheon meat spam as well as treat and various store brands as well as souse, scrapple, and dinty moors beef stew. I just dont like the intrusive off topic scam posts.
Manil...@prodigy.net
Tikbalang wrote:
>
> Dante Basco was in the movie "Hook" with William Robin. He played the villain
> of Robin (Peter Pan) and was eventually killed by Dustin Hoffman (Hook). I had
> seen him also of several movies as a supporting actor of big stars like Steven
> Seagall.
>
The name sounds familiar but I really can't recall who he is.
> I could not understand why you don't know also about Reyes, Jr. for he is very
> popular. He was in the movie "Ninja Turtle" and "My bodyguard" a TV Disney
> series. He is really good in Karate and Arnis (Filipino martial art).
Ok I think I know who you're talking about. If he is who I think he
is, he still doesn't fit the sci-fi character.
Manil...@prodigy.net
Thunderballs wrote:
>
> Manila_Girl@NOSPAM_prodigy.net wrote:
> : Doug Tricarico wrote:
>
> : (maybe in the future), who can fit the character. I could be wrong, can
> : you name someone?
>
> Beyond," and who is currently on "ER." Watch him - he's getting hotter -
> though I don't know if he'll have the same pull as a Will Smith someday. I'll
> be pulling for him though.
>
> AY
I know who you're talking about. I watched him in Space: Above and
beyond and actually thought he was pretty good in it. Maybe I'll see him
in more tv roles. Haven't seen him on ER but I haven't watched ER for a
long time.
Manil...@prodigy.net
Kevin Bratager wrote:
>
> Can you imagine how much people would be screaming about racism in the
> film if it had been a Filipino actor being flogged instead of a white
> actor?
> --Kevin
Forgot to mention on first reply. I don't think people a complaining
because of scenes in the movie. I think people are upset because they
changed the race of the character in the movie. I guess we or at least
I'm so earnest in wanting to see Filipino characters on American movies
that when a character originally Filipino (or part Filipino), is changed
to a different race, I can get annoyed. I wasn't saying the movie Star
troopers is racists. I hope this thread doen't become a white/black
issue. Because I would also be complaining if the race of Juan Rico was
chaged to black or any other race. I merely want my representation in
the movies. Bring on those good juicy Filipino actors and actresses.
Ron Christian
In article <346A2225...@ozemail.com.au>,
Geoffrey C Marshall <co...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>I haven't seen it yet. May not after all this, but can someone
>tell me what race the person giving the flogging was ?
You guessed it.
>That could have had some interesting ramifications and reactions.
>If they had ebough "courage" to make it a black flogging a white,
>then that would be justification for making Rico white....
Or it might be an obvious emotional cheap trick.
>Depending on how you interpret it of course...
Of course. For the scene to have shock value, you have to assume a
certain audience mind set. The scene didn't do anything for me,
but maybe Verhoeven thinks it'll cause some controversy in the deep
south, or something.
Ron
--
"The problem with being the hatchet man is that you're so
often handed a two-edged hatchet." -- Oliver
Mike Colena
AC21209 wrote:
>
> Manila Girl was writing about Casting Directors...
>
> of Paul Verhoeven (the director), the producer or the studio. Actually
> figuring out exactly who made these choices is the most difficult task of all.
>
I thought Aaron Spelling did the casting. They all looked like
90210/Melrose rejects. It was quite sad.
Joshua Jasper
In article <346A2080...@ozemail.com.au>,
reference. The geography being tought in schools today is pathetic.
Sinboy
Yak
Paul Kekai Manansala wrote:
>
> In article <tereza-1011...@192.168.10.13>,
> ter...@califex.com (Tereza Snyder) wrote:
> >In article <346167...@ktb.net>, jay...@ktb.net wrote:
> >>You haven't seen the movie yet. If you do you'll notice a lot of
> >>non-white faces. One of the things I noticed while waching the film was
> >
> >yes, but where are the asians? I didn't see even one asian face and
> >something like 1 out of 4 humans are asian...
> >
>
> South Asians alone. That's about 1 in every 2.5 people. Then you still
> have to throw in SE Asians, Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Central Asian
> Turks, etc. And the demographic trends forecast greater percentages
> of both Africans and Asians in the near future.
>
> Regards,
> Paul Kekai Manansala
heh, its an american movie
made with americans
Tansong Isda
> Ok I think I know who you're talking about. If he is who I think he
> is, he still doesn't fit the sci-fi character.
Just what is the sci-fi character in your point of view? Describe it.
Manil...@prodigy.net
AC21209 wrote:
>
> Manila Girl was writing about Casting Directors...
>
> target audiences will relate to. That's not the job of the Casting Director.
>
> Moreover, the Casting Director is interesting in satisfying the desires and
> visions of the Director (first and most importantly) and the Producer, then
> the Studio.
Even so, from what you are saying casting directors still gather a
list of actors/actresses from which the director or studio can choose.
Which brings up another race thread, the multi ethnic Cinderella remake
of the musical shown by ABC network. Just goes to show that if the
studio wants to make a multi ethnic show they can do it.
>
> The whitening of the main cast of Starship Troopers may have been the decision
> of Paul Verhoeven (the director), the producer or the studio. Actually
> figuring out exactly who made these choices is the most difficult task of all.
I wasn't putting the blame on casting directors. I know that directors
and producers also have an input on who they want (again Spielberg hand
picked Will Smith for the Men in Black movie).