Kabayan: Are You Offended When Called a Flip or Pinoy?????
Enteng Batengteng
Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
Lemme know........
Ka Enteng
Alibis
It's not the words "Flip or Pinoy" that make it offensive. It's how one uses it. I
personally take no offense to being called a flip or a pinoy, as long as it's not used
in a racial or rude manner. As for the F or the P who really minds. At least we're now
a group onto ourselves. No longer lumped into that vast Asian category.
CB
A proud member of skaholics anonymous
pedro
ent...@batengteng.com (Enteng Batengteng) writes:
> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
> Lemme know........
>
> Ka Enteng
((((((((((((((((((((((((((+)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Well as for me, I hate it when they call me Pinay or worst
Finoy. I was in Las Vegas once and I saw this Filipino band playing
in a small club, yes, they called themselves, "the Flip Sides".
No kidding!
pedro
Dale Borja
In <3180732c...@news.alt.net>, ent...@batengteng.com (Enteng Batengteng) writes:
>Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
>Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
>Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
>in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
>Lemme know........
>
>Ka Enteng
I'm not offended at all by Flip or Pinoy. Filipino is used by other
cultures to refer to people of Philippine heritage and Pilipino is
the proper Tagalog term to refer to ourselves as far as I know. At
some point Flip was considered derogatory but I think it's become a
"nickname" for Filipino. Didn't we coin Pinoy ourselves?
Felimar M Blanco
In <3180732c...@news.alt.net> ent...@batengteng.com (Enteng
Batengteng) writes:
>
>Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
>Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
>Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
>in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
>Lemme know........
>
>Ka Enteng
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ummm, got used to it. But seems to me like we are degrading
ourselves using the word 'Pinoy'. Salitang kanto.
I use 'Pilpino' when I am writing in Tagalog, 'Filipino' when
writing in English. This is the proper way of using the terms.
rsl
Enteng Batengteng wrote:
>
> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
> Lemme know........
>
> Ka Enteng
I have no trouble being called "Pinoy". In fact, talagang Pinoy ako.
However I would resent to be called "Flip". Parang sinasabing nag "flip" ka
eh. :)
Geny Toribio
Enteng Batengteng wrote:
>
> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
> Lemme know........
>
> Ka Enteng
I have it from good source that "F" is now a legit letter in the Filipino
alphabet, and "F"ilipino is now a perfectly accepted spelling for Filipino.
Anyway, maybe somebody else can confirm this so we can end this debate once and
for all.
--
Geny Toribio < gtor...@interlog.com >
Markham, Ontario, Canada
http://www.interlog.com/~gtoribio/home.htm
Almacen
rsl <rsl...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Enteng Batengteng wrote:
>>
>> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
>> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
>> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
>> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>>
>> Lemme know........
>>
>> Ka Enteng
>I have no trouble being called "Pinoy". In fact, talagang Pinoy ako.
As one who grew up in the States and then going off to university in
the Philippines, I don't think 'Flip' or 'Pinoy' are derogatory in any
way. If ever, I thought 'Pinoy' was just a carry over from the 70's.
>However I would resent to be called "Flip". Parang sinasabing nag "flip" ka
>eh. :)
With, 'Flip,' I was always under the impression it was an American -
English term that other Filipinos called themselves. Like a shorter
way of saying 'Filipino'.
The only way I could think of these terms being offensive (as was said
in a preious posting), would be if SOMEONE else who wasn't Filipino
used the words in a negative and racial manner. (i.e. spick, nigger,
or even 'cracker' for that matter).
just my 2 cents worth......
-mike
Jose M. Montano
: > Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
: > Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
: > Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
: > in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
Preference, respect, context and intent are all considerations.
Personally, most of time I don't mind being called "pinoy" or "flip".
However, I respect others' preferences and would not refer to them as
either if they didn't want me to. If the intent was to insult and attack
me or others than I would take exception to the use of those words.
There was an article in the premiere edition of "GO" (tracking the Asian
American music scene) which was about how Filipino/Filipino American disc
jockeys were winning a lot of U.S. national and international dj
competitions. Their unique style includes not only "scratching" and
"sampling" music, but includes sounds and noises, too. One dj referred
to their practice by saying they "could take any sound and 'flip it'." I
guess there are two contexts in which this can be taken. The first is
that they can take any sound and manipulate it to develop a different
sound. The second is that they as Filipinos/Filipino Americans have
created a new and unique style of dj-ing. The context here is one of
identifying something popular or good as a flip or Filipino thing. To me
the term flip is positive in this particular context.
Now to share with you an experience I had with a friend of mine whom I
grew up with. We were at a party in which a lot of the attendees were
either Filipino Americans or Asian Americans and he said "Wow, this is a
pretty big "gook" party". Although he is Filipino American, too, he
wasn't disturbed by the connotation of that word. I asked him why he
could use a term that is so commonly deragatory and hurtful. He replied
that his friends in high school (mostly whites) would call him that all
the time and that he didn't think anything was wrong with it. I told him
that there were people at the party who might not be as comfortable with
"gook" as he was. I also let him know that I was one of those people who
would not appreciate it.
Back then I thought that what caused him to feel the way he did and use
terms like that as freely as he did fell under "internalized oppression."
Now I wonder, because I use the word "flip" which I have no problem
with, but others adamantly detest. Maybe because I was never attacked
with the word "flip" but I was with the word "gook".
Suzanne R Aquino
ent...@batengteng.com (Enteng Batengteng) writes:
> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
>
> Ka Enteng
((((((((((((((((((((((((((+)))))))))))))))))))))))))
It doesn't really bother me. "Flip" or "Pinoy"/"Pinay" is just sort of
a shortened version of the two. I guess it's sort of two sided, because
kung kababayan ang nag-sasabi, okay lang, and more often than not, it
isn't meant to be derogatory. If it is someone else however, okay rin,
per as long as it's not meant in a derogatory way.
=)
Suzanne ->
Strubie - Tweedle-dum (Oozie) - Suzi-bear - Uzanne - Suz - rj
=) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =) =)
"Um, you have to be close enough to hit me." - M3
ben@primenet.com Benjamin L. Guadiz
Mang Enteng,
NO, not at all ...
Not even by a long shot ... !!!
benjamin
bl...@ix.netcom.com
bl...@primenet.com
Southern CA 92324
Licensed For Portico Use
I as far as I know Flip means SIRA ULO, so i don't want to be
called Flip. I guessed they just abbrebriate the word Filipino.
Primo
n article <3180732c...@news.alt.net>, Enteng Batengteng
Radam
There's an F in the new Alpabetong Filipino which now consists of 28
letters. The new alphabet was implemented in 1987 yet through DECS Memo
No. 81 s. 1987. The new letters? The 26 letters in the English alphabet
plus the Spanish n (enye) and ng (enji).
Aurora E. Batnag
Eric/Genny
Back home in Manila, my brothers would call each other 'flip'
during their bickerings. So imagine how I felt when, during my second
day in the US ( NY, at that) a store clerk called out to his friend
that "'a flip here needs an extra fork".
Yes, I find the word offending because it means something else to me.
But if you have been told and conditioned to take "flip" to mean
"filipino", then who am I to argue?
'Pinoy' is a different story. In high school that was how we call
our Pilipino Language subject. And that's also how we Pinoys call
each other. Come to think of it, how often do you tell a foreigner
that you are "Pinoy"? Usually we will say 'Filipino'.
Ryan Quezon
Enteng Batengteng wrote:
>
> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>
> Lemme know........
>
> Ka Enteng
I really don't consider either terms to be derogatory. To me, it's been
intergrated into my everyday life, which, with time, I've gotten used to
it. What I consider derogatory is that some people call me something that
I'm not--Chinese, Japanese, etc. I usually correct them, but they
continue anyway. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), Flip and Pinoy (if you
consider them to be derogatory) is just part of Racist America.
Felimar M Blanco
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who's idea is it again, screwing up our official Filipino
alphabets? They call themselves 'educators' ... right?
On the issue of 'F', go out there anywhere in the Philippines
and observe, how many percent of people you will meet who
pronounces 'f' even though the word really contains the 'f'
sound. My first name has 'F' but almost all of my friends
who knows me for years still pronounces it with 'P' sound.
Historically, we used names with 'F', when we adopted Spanish
names. Spaniards does clearly pronounce their 'F'. We never
did.
Will the people change their pronounciation now that we
have the official "F" included in the alphabet?
Remember, Pilipinos doesn't 'f'uck, we only ... puck. Are
our educators puck-up?
Sal Estrada
In article <3183B0...@smtp.erols.com>, Ryan Quezon
<nu...@smtp.erols.com> says...
>
>I really don't consider either terms to be derogatory. To me, it's been
>intergrated into my everyday life, which, with time, I've gotten used to
>it. What I consider derogatory is that some people call me something that
>I'm not--Chinese, Japanese, etc. I usually correct them, but they
>continue anyway. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), Flip and Pinoy (if you
>consider them to be derogatory) is just part of Racist America.
I don't understand why you should feel belittled if you are mistaken to be
Chinese or Japanese, unless of course you look at these nationalities as
being something less than what you think you are (in which case you are
being racist). It is easy for us pinoys to also mistake a Spaniard to be
British or an Iranian to be a Palestinian, etc. Hindi ba?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the terms "flip" and
"pinoy" were coined by Filipinos, not by Americans. As such, these terms
are not really part of American heritage.
As for me, I have no problems being referred to as a flip, pinoy, noy-pi,
asian, oriental, pacific islander, Tagalog, Manilen~o, or just plain Joe
Blow. Then again, I don't have any hangups about terms since I put more
meaning to the spirit of the message than the words being used. I could
be called pogi and still I might take umbrage to it if it is used to
disparage me in some way. -Sal
Enteng Batengteng
On 28 Apr 1996 09:00:48 GMT, Radam <ra...@tridel.com.ph> wrote:
>There's an F in the new Alpabetong Filipino which now consists of 28
>letters. The new alphabet was implemented in 1987 yet through DECS Memo
>No. 81 s. 1987. The new letters? The 26 letters in the English alphabet
>plus the Spanish n (enye) and ng (enji).
>
>Aurora E. Batnag
>
Thanks much for this info.
If I hadn't asked, I wouldn't have known that "efe"
is officially in the "F"ilipino alphabet.
So is it a ba ka da e ga "fa" ha? or, a ba ka da e ga "efe" ha? or, a
ba ka da e ga fe ha? ;-))
Ka Enteng
Andy Aganad
For my two cents worth, a Filipino friend of mine, born and raised in
Hawaii, told me that "flip" is considered a derogatory term in Hawaii.
Based on this I can understand how people may not like it. When I was a
kid growing up in San Jose, CA, I though it was a cute term, now I
myself don't like to hear it anymore.
Dave Ong
sest...@ix.netcom.com (Sal Estrada) wrote:
>
>As for me, I have no problems being referred to as a flip, pinoy, noy-pi,
>asian, oriental, pacific islander, Tagalog, Manilen~o, or just plain Joe
>Blow. Then again, I don't have any hangups about terms since I put more
>meaning to the spirit of the message than the words being used. I could
>be called pogi and still I might take umbrage to it if it is used to
>disparage me in some way. -Sal
>
raiden
Radam wrote:
>
> There's an F in the new Alpabetong Filipino which now consists of 28
> letters. The new alphabet was implemented in 1987 yet through DECS Memo
> No. 81 s. 1987. The new letters? The 26 letters in the English alphabet
> plus the Spanish n (enye) and ng (enji).
>
> Aurora E. Batnag
What would they think of next !!!!!
I still remember a previous newsgroup post that pronounced
the letter "A" as ey and "I" as ay.
So the phrase " Akoy nalilito " would sound like
"Eykoy neylaylayto !"
I hope when I get back home my country men wont be speaking like this !
The Filipino accent is a unique accent . Many westerner admired the way
we speak . A lot of people can identify us because of the way we
pronounce , They like the way we speak english better other
nationalities( no offense ment ) because we pronounce our worlds clearly
and distinctly without omitting any sound.
Who do we want to satisfy by changing this . So we can pronounce
eypol ?
I wonder how the nationalist and the purista's would see this ?
Any comment from Ka Luis , or Soc ?
Maybe we need to study this further ?
--
Lord Raiden
Thunder Deity
It is not the weapon that makes a warrior ........
But it is the spirit by which he wields it ........
Your spirit is your true shield ...................
O-Sensei
Totoy Bato
In article <3183B0...@smtp.erols.com>, nu...@smtp.erols.com says...
>
>Enteng Batengteng wrote:
>>
>> Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
>> Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
>> Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
>> in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>>
>> Lemme know........
>>
>> Ka Enteng
>
>intergrated into my everyday life, which, with time, I've gotten used to
>it. What I consider derogatory is that some people call me something that
>I'm not--Chinese, Japanese, etc. I usually correct them, but they
>continue anyway. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), Flip and Pinoy (if you
>consider them to be derogatory) is just part of Racist America.
I don't get offended when calleda flip, in fact I like using the term,..
it rolls easy off the tongue when used in English conversation. Somebody
told me that the term is derogatory and is an acronym for "fucking little
island people". Is this true?
Anyway, when I use the term and everytime I hear it, it's not used in a
derogatory manner at all. Its a bit like the term used for the English
people here. Almost everyone (including the Englishmen themselves) refer
to them as POME's. or Poms. It started as a derogatory term meaning
"Prisoners of Mother England" (I think as a reference to the early
convicts shipped to Australia).
Romy Rodriguez
Butch Denoga
Flip??...parang kulang as in "siraulo"
Hindi tuloy alam kung matatawa o magagalit..
.....Flip ka ba???.....
Pinoy...pwede pa, nakasanayan na at talagang slang.
Pinoy ka ba??
my mamera's worth
Butch Denoga
GREG VALERA
In <1...@andro.mlnet.com> pde...@andro.mlnet.com (Licensed For Portico
Use) writes:
>
>I as far as I know Flip means SIRA ULO, so i don't want to be
>called Flip. I guessed they just abbrebriate the word Filipino.
>
>Primo
>
>
>>Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no
F
>>in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>>
>>Lemme know........
>>
>>Ka Enteng
>>
>
I have no problem with the word Pinoy, but if somebody i don't know
calls me a flip and then laughs would better be his last laugh.
When I was living in San Francisco, during 1979 and early 80's some
Latino's would call some pinoys Flips, then a shouting match and
taunting would ensure between these groups.
After moving to Dallas twelve years ago, I'm surprise that our younger
kababayans in the west coast, and even in this newsgroup are accepting
being branded like this and even promoting it.
~ArroyoAlvinA~
Felimar M Blanco wrote:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Ummm, got used to it. But seems to me like we are degrading
> ourselves using the word 'Pinoy'. Salitang kanto.
Not really. The word "Pilipino" is too long to pronounce that's why the word
"Pinoy's" chronically expressed by some Filipinos as a "slang" term and never
was a 'salitang kanto' unless if you mean it towards others.
Flip? A sort of "pabiro" or expressively a jerk by joke. You kno'...
I may be altruistic to that but plees, correct me if I'm RwOgN.
--
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A.Jante
fbl...@ix.netcom.com(Felimar M Blanco) wrote:
>In <3180732c...@news.alt.net> ent...@batengteng.com (Enteng
>>
>>Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
In Manila calling someone Flip means he's crazy or he lacks common
sense (yes, it is derogatory), so unless you're a close friend and
use it in a joking context, I would find it objectionable.
Pinoy, otoh, has been adopted by Pilipino media and gov't to such
an extent that it merely stands for a contraction of Pilipino, without
negative connotations.
>>Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
>>Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no F
>>in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
As another poster pointed out, DECS has recently revised our alphabet
to include F (and other English letters). I find this objectionable
as well, not becasue I'm a purist (I believe language should evolve)
but because, <vent on>, what gives them the right?!!!
Have they taken over the role of Spanish conquistadors and prayle's -
"improving" the language so it can better accomodate foreign words?
The english alphabet is perfectly capable of handling english words,
and the pilipino language is perfectly capable of handling pilipino
words.Why are they trying to turn pilipino into a liguistic Digman
halo-halo?! Leave well enough alone, and stop trying to destroy
Pilipino cultural heritage!!! Grrrrr <vent off>
Sorry, but I just very strongly disagree with DECS on this.
Alyn
Licensed For Portico Use
Me too...
ANDRO
In article <4m8aib$o...@phunn1.sbphrd.com>, "A.Jante"
(alyn_n...@sbphrd.com) writes: >fbl...@ix.netcom.com(Felimar M
Mark A Vivino
In article <4m0kb9$j...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, sest...@ix.netcom.com
(Sal Estrada) wrote:
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the terms "flip" and
> "pinoy" were coined by Filipinos, not by Americans. As such, these terms
> are not really part of American heritage.
I have often wondered who coined all the phrases refering to those
individuals from the Philippines. In our engineering lab we have a
cambodian, who is married to a cambodian and is from cambodia. We have a
vietnamese from vietnam, several chinese from china. But if somebody
happens to be from the Philippines they can be a Filipino, Filipina,
Pilipino, Pilipina (?), Flip, Pinoy, Pinay, etc. I find it hard to believe
that the terms came from America since it is just too confusing to most
Amerikanos here to understand all these terms. Oh well, the right term to
use is the one nobody is offended at, whatever it happens to be.
--
Mark Vivino National Institutes of Health
Biomedical Engineer DCRT/CBEL/IPRS, 12A/2033
mvi...@helix.nih.gov Bethesda, MD 20892-5624
Jesie Tabilangan
mvi...@helix.nih.gov (Mark A Vivino) wrote:
>
> In article <4m0kb9$j...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, sest...@ix.netcom.com
> (Sal Estrada) wrote:
>
> > Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the terms "flip" and
> > "pinoy" were coined by Filipinos, not by Americans. As such, these terms
> > are not really part of American heritage.
>
Ask any Filipinos who've been in the navy and they will tell you
that "Flip" is sometimes used as a racial slur. The last three letters
stand for "Little Island People". The first one stands for a word that
I prefer not to use even when I get mad. At least, I try not to!
Ron Calderon
On Fri, 3 May 1996, Jesie Tabilangan wrote:
> Ask any Filipinos who've been in the navy and they will tell you
> that "Flip" is sometimes used as a racial slur. The last three letters
> stand for "Little Island People". The first one stands for a word that
> I prefer not to use even when I get mad. At least, I try not to!
Who cares what the "F" originally stood for, let's come-up
with new positive meanings for it -- what better way to
desroy a slur than to turn it to something to be proud of?
let us begin:
F L I P
Fascinating Little Island People
Fun Loving Island People
Fantastic Little Island People
Fabulous Little Island People
Filipinos (are) Loyal Interesting & Pogi
Filipinas (are) Lovely Intelligent & Pretty
Funtobewith Lighthearted Incredible People
any more???
--
Ron
,-===========================---=====================-.
,, /~~~ /~~~~~/ / /\ / <> `\,--------------------. \
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,, _________________________/' * * / .~`````~. [\|
,, [| Netsurfer's License * * / ./""'---'\. [|
,, [| -<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>/~ * * / .\__ _ __/, [/
,, [|name: Ronald R. Calderon * * / (:(_)~(_):) [|
\__[|age : 22.036138009999 * * / | `~' .| [/
[|eyes: two * / \`~-~ / [|
[|hair: too many to count | .i`---i. [/
[|http://www.csun.edu/~hbcsc288 | .,--""::`` ..::-,. [|
`\______________________ N C C \`: :: :: ``, [/
`\ 1701D \____________________[/
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Juan Valdez
Mark A Vivino wrote:
>
> In article <4m0kb9$j...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, sest...@ix.netcom.com
> (Sal Estrada) wrote:
>
> > Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the terms "flip" and
> > "pinoy" were coined by Filipinos, not by Americans. As such, these terms
> > are not really part of American heritage.
>
> individuals from the Philippines. In our engineering lab we have a
> cambodian, who is married to a cambodian and is from cambodia. We have a
> vietnamese from vietnam, several chinese from china. But if somebody
> happens to be from the Philippines they can be a Filipino, Filipina,
> Pilipino, Pilipina (?), Flip, Pinoy, Pinay, etc. I find it hard to believe
> that the terms came from America since it is just too confusing to most
> Amerikanos here to understand all these terms. Oh well, the right term to
> use is the one nobody is offended at, whatever it happens to be.
>
> --
> Mark Vivino National Institutes of Health
> Biomedical Engineer DCRT/CBEL/IPRS, 12A/2033
> mvi...@helix.nih.gov Bethesda, MD 20892-5624
Mayabang ka ata! heh!
Ireneo Peregil
In a previous article, gva...@ix.netcom.com (GREG VALERA) says:
>In <1...@andro.mlnet.com> pde...@andro.mlnet.com (Licensed For Portico
>Use) writes:
>>
>>I as far as I know Flip means SIRA ULO, so i don't want to be
>>called Flip. I guessed they just abbrebriate the word Filipino.
>>
>>Primo
>>
>>
>>n article <3180732c...@news.alt.net>, Enteng Batengteng
>>(ent...@batengteng.com) writes:
>>>Is Flip derogatory? How about Pinoy?
>>>Also, should it be Filipino or Pilipino?
>>>Filipino is widely used although there is no F in Philippines and no
>F
>>>in the Pilipino alphabet. :-))
>>>
>>>Lemme know........
Filipinos are the people of the Philippines and
Pilipino is the language spoken by Filipinos.
I have quite a number of Canadian friends, who from time to time joke
around with me by calling me a flip, I am not offended at all. I guess
it's up to the person itself, how you would look at it.
If someone, who for that matter is not known to me and address me as a
flip, then I will took offence to that!
Geny Toribio
Juan, wala naman akong makitang kayabangan sa isinulat ni Mark. Care to explain?
Anyway, following the original thread:
I have always considered the word "Flip" as just a contraction of Filipino, and in some
instances even used in an endearing way by our own people when referring to our ethnic
community.
I agree with most, however, that any name other than the properly accepted term for a people
can be offensive, depending on the manner and context in which it is used.
--
Geny Toribio < gtor...@interlog.com >
Markham, Ontario, Canada
http://www.interlog.com/~gtoribio/home.htm
John F. Bowman
Ron Calderon wrote:
>
> Who cares what the "F" originally stood for, let's come-up
> with new positive meanings for it -- what better way to
> desroy a slur than to turn it to something to be proud of?
>
> let us begin:
>
> F L I P
>
> Fascinating Little Island People
>
> Fun Loving Island People
> I thot it was:
Fine Looking Island People
At least that's what all the Filipino members of QPhil tell me!
John Bowman
Treasurer and Webslinger
Queen's University
Philippine Cultural Association
http://www.ams.queensu.ca/qpca
GREG VALERA
In <DquMM...@ccc.amdahl.com> Jesie Tabilangan
<jg...@amail.amdahl.com> writes:
>mvi...@helix.nih.gov (Mark A Vivino) wrote:
>>
>> In article <4m0kb9$j...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
sest...@ix.netcom.com
>> (Sal Estrada) wrote:
>>
>> > Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the terms
"flip" and
>> > "pinoy" were coined by Filipinos, not by Americans. As such,
these terms
>> > are not really part of American heritage.
>>
>
>
>that "Flip" is sometimes used as a racial slur. The last three letters
>stand for "Little Island People". The first one stands for a word that
>I prefer not to use even when I get mad. At least, I try not to!
You said it right, Ride on Navy...
David Baltazar
how about "funky"?
Ron Calderon (hbcs...@email.csun.edu) wrote:
: On Fri, 3 May 1996, Jesie Tabilangan wrote:
: > Ask any Filipinos who've been in the navy and they will tell you
: > that "Flip" is sometimes used as a racial slur. The last three letters
: > stand for "Little Island People". The first one stands for a word that
: > I prefer not to use even when I get mad. At least, I try not to!
: Who cares what the "F" originally stood for, let's come-up
: with new positive meanings for it -- what better way to
: desroy a slur than to turn it to something to be proud of?
: let us begin:
: F L I P
:
: Fascinating Little Island People
: Fun Loving Island People
: Fantastic Little Island People
: Fabulous Little Island People
: Filipinos (are) Loyal Interesting & Pogi
: Filipinas (are) Lovely Intelligent & Pretty
: Funtobewith Lighthearted Incredible People
: any more???
: --
: Ron
: ,-===========================---=====================-.
: ,, /~~~ /~~~~~/ / /\ / <> `\,--------------------. \
: ,, /________/ /___/_/ `\/ <> /' /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[\ \
: ,, _________________________/' * * / .~`````~. [\|
: ,, [| Netsurfer's License * * / ./""'---'\. [|
: ,, [| -<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>/~ * * / .\__ _ __/, [/
: ,, [|name: Ronald R. Calderon * * / (:(_)~(_):) [|
: \__[|age : 22.036138009999 * * / | `~' .| [/
: [|eyes: two * / \`~-~ / [|
: [|hair: too many to count | .i`---i. [/
: [|http://www.csun.edu/~hbcsc288 | .,--""::`` ..::-,. [|
: `\______________________ N C C \`: :: :: ``, [/
: `\ 1701D \____________________[/
: `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
/ ' /
On The Internet / ' / David Joseph Baltazar
Road To / ' / dbal...@diamond.tufts.edu
Nowhere / ' / t...@terra.igcom.net
/ ' / I Live at http://www.igcom.net/~taz/mypage
tom choy
In article <4mj5lo$g...@d2.tufts.edu>, dbal...@diamond.tufts.edu (David Baltazar) says:
>
> how about "funky"?
>
I prefer Pinoy over Flip. Flip connotes mentally going berserk.
tom=)
*********************
tom choy, ba economics
sutton group seafair
vancouver, bc, canada
604-273-3155(24 hours)
gri...@vcn.bc.ca,
tc...@helix.net
http://www.aspac.com/
realty/choy/
********************
Butch Denoga
Ron Calderon <hbcs...@email.csun.edu> wrote:
[cut]
> Who cares what the "F" originally stood for, let's come-up
>with new positive meanings for it -- what better way to
>desroy a slur than to turn it to something to be proud of?
we can always turn the other cheek too...but when it comes to name
calling in the negative sense it would be hard to tell what the
"horse" is really trying to say....also trying to figure out the
big grin as the horse shows his teeth.
Trying to think positive about it would just calm down a person
when he/she should be mad.....and then be concluded to be "soft."
Flip = Sira-ulo.
I get offended and that's my opinion.
Pinoy is more traditional...I accept this.
Butch Denoga
mikeb
Enteng Batengteng wrote:
>
> On 28 Apr 1996 09:00:48 GMT, Radam <ra...@tridel.com.ph> wrote:
>
> >There's an F in the new Alpabetong Filipino which now consists of 28
> >letters. The new alphabet was implemented in 1987 yet through DECS Memo
> >No. 81 s. 1987. The new letters? The 26 letters in the English alphabet
> >plus the Spanish n (enye) and ng (enji).
> >
> >Aurora E. Batnag
> >
>
> If I hadn't asked, I wouldn't have known that "efe"
> is officially in the "F"ilipino alphabet.
>
> So is it a ba ka da e ga "fa" ha? or, a ba ka da e ga "efe" ha? or, a
> ba ka da e ga fe ha? ;-))
>
> Ka Enteng
Oo nga, paano na binibigkas ang abakada? Medyo nalito na ata ako doon ah.
mikeb
Enteng Batengteng
Pareng Butch,
I agree with what you have stated. Making a joke of a slur or turning
the other cheek is not always the answer.
Once established that it is acceptable for someone to be nicknamed a
slur, things can only get worse from there. These same people will
then address other Filipinos as such, thinking it is OK because of the
response they got from the "softie" Filipino, which is, to say the
least, nothing.
I asked the question that started this thread but I neglected to state
my own point of view on this matter. For this, I am sorry.
I too, gets offended when called a "Flip", irregardless of the
intent. One thing I don't do though is jump up and down nor get
hostile about it. Rather, I try to explain it in a firm manner that
the word Flip is offensive to every Filipino and is tantamount to
calling a black person a "nig**r". It never fails to get their
attention when the "n" word is involved, hence I use it to let them
know how much I take offense to being called a "flip".
I believe it is up to all of us to educate the ignorant if we are to
maintain our Pinoy pride.
Did I say Pinoy??? :-))
Pinoy is OK!!!
Regarding the alphabet, the Hawaiians uses fewer letters, but they are
doing just fine. Now why can't we just stick to what we had? It was
what is original, part of our Pilipino identity, and now it is all
mucked up! No thanks to our pulitikos, the sena-tongs, and the
tong-ressmen, who were responsible, directly or indirectly.
Ka Enteng
Ramon Lagman
This is weird...when I came here in the US back in '85, Filipinos born
in the US while I was in High School enjoyed and seemed to be proud to
call themselves Flips...they even spread graffiti over my old school
with the words "Flips Rule"...this gave me the impression that they
coined the term themselves. I figured since these American Bornes just
have a hard time pronouncing Filipino when someone aske them where
they are from...so they just say Filip or shortened Flip...
Ramon Lagman
Ron Calderon <hbcs...@email.csun.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 3 May 1996, Jesie Tabilangan wrote:
>> Ask any Filipinos who've been in the navy and they will tell you
>> that "Flip" is sometimes used as a racial slur. The last three letters
>> stand for "Little Island People". The first one stands for a word that
>> I prefer not to use even when I get mad. At least, I try not to!
> Who cares what the "F" originally stood for, let's come-up
>with new positive meanings for it -- what better way to
>desroy a slur than to turn it to something to be proud of?
>let us begin:
>F L I P
>
>Fascinating Little Island People
>Fun Loving Island People
>Fantastic Little Island People
>Fabulous Little Island People
>Filipinos (are) Loyal Interesting & Pogi
>Filipinas (are) Lovely Intelligent & Pretty
>Funtobewith Lighthearted Incredible People
>any more???
Fine Looking Island People
K. Trout
> In article <4m8aib$o...@phunn1.sbphrd.com>, "A.Jante"
>(alyn_n...@sbphrd.com) writes:
>>
>>As another poster pointed out, DECS has recently revised our alphabet
>>to include F (and other English letters). I find this objectionable
>>as well, not becasue I'm a purist (I believe language should evolve)
>>but because, <vent on>, what gives them the right?!!!
I suppose you can say that monumental decisions like the inclusion of the
letter "F" in the alphabet should be agreed upon by the Filipino population.
Since is this not practical, reasonable, or desirable, we look the government
to make such decisions for the Filipino people. Therefore, DEC eminently HAS
the right to do this.
>The english alphabet is perfectly capable of handling english words,
>and the pilipino language is perfectly capable of handling pilipino
>words.Why are they trying to turn pilipino into a liguistic Digman
>halo-halo?! Leave well enough alone, and stop trying to destroy
>Pilipino cultural heritage!!! Grrrrr <vent off>
It is futile to resist the infusion of English words into the Filipino
language. Or you could end up with monstrosities like "sinturong
pangkaligtasan" (seatbelt). I say let the language evolve normally. DECs
decision is just to formalize something that is already happening by itself.
It is a good decision on DEC's part, and eminently reasonable.
Orion Perez Dumdum
tr...@mckinney.edu (K. Trout) wrote:
>> In article <4m8aib$o...@phunn1.sbphrd.com>, "A.Jante"
>>(alyn_n...@sbphrd.com) writes:
>>>
>>>As another poster pointed out, DECS has recently revised our alphabet
>>>to include F (and other English letters). I find this objectionable
>>>as well, not becasue I'm a purist (I believe language should evolve)
>>>but because, <vent on>, what gives them the right?!!!
Noong~ unang~ panajon, ang~ dating~ guinagamit na alfabeto nang~
mang~a Tagalog, at pati na rin nang~ mang~a Cebuano ay yaong~
alfabeto nang~ uicang~ Espan~ola... Iyan ang~ ortografi'ang~
guinamit noong~ panajon nina Balagtas at pati na rin sa panajon nina
Rizal. Jindi po maaarring~ sabijin natin na mali ang~ pagsasali
nang~ letrang~ <<f>>.
Aco na rin ang~ sasabi sa iyo na jindi mali ang pag-gamit
nang~ ortografi'ang ini... (Jindi pa uso ang~ salitang <<ito.>>)
(OK, tell me if what I wrote above isn't Tagalog?
That's the orthography of Tagalog during the
Spanish occupation, and it's a lot older than the
ridiculous ABAKADA that we were taught in grade
school. (ABAKADA was another Government decree,
by the way) That Spanish-style orthography included
the letters C, F, Z, etc., since most Spanish words that
were incorporated into Tagalog/Cebuano/other Pinoy
languages were made to retain their original Spanish
spellings... The "ng" is pronounced as "ngg" as in
"mangga," while the "ng~" is pronounced as in the
"ng" in "mga.")
Besides, the Spanish language doesn't use the
letter W or the letter K, but retains those letters
in its alphabet, so that foreign words can be
accomodated. It doesn't even pronounce the <<H>>
as in "hasta la vista," but it still retains it. Spaniards say
"ASTA la BVISTA!"
>I suppose you can say that monumental decisions like the inclusion of the
>letter "F" in the alphabet should be agreed upon by the Filipino population
>Since is this not practical, reasonable, or desirable, we look the government
>to make such decisions for the Filipino people. Therefore, DEC eminently HAS
>the right to do this.
That's quite right!
>>The english alphabet is perfectly capable of handling english words,
>>and the pilipino language is perfectly capable of handling pilipino
>>words.
Filipinos are generally bilingual (or in most cases, even tri or
tetra-lingual) in English and their native language (be it Tagalog or
some other language) and have a tendency to use English words in
their native speech. This is especially when they talk about work in
the office, work with electronic stuff, school, and other scientific
or technical fields... The heavy borrowing of these words makes the
use of the original orthography of the borrowed words necessary, and
therefore makes it more practical to use a complete ABCD...Z alphabet
without removing certain letters.
>> Why are they trying to turn pilipino into a liguistic Digman
>>halo-halo?! Leave well enough alone, and stop trying to destroy
>>Pilipino cultural heritage!!! Grrrrr <vent off>
Believe it or not, the heritage of a majority of lowland Filipinos
is that of an "EAST-WEST" mix, and among the WESTern half, it's
a further mix between HISPANIC and ANGLO-SAXON... You can't
deny that the Filipino musical heritage embodied in the kundimans
are heavily Hispano-Italic inluenced... (You can hear strains of
O Sole Mio, and Torna a Sorrento in them as there was a heavy
influx of Italian Opera during the latter Spanish period and even
until the American times) So it is also with LANGUAGE... We
use a lot of Spanish derived words, and presently, pepper our
casual and everyday speech with English words... To some extent,
it is slowly becoming part of our heritage, just as the words
"BALISONG" and "Bundok" (Boondocks) have infiltrated American
English. You can't fight it. And for your information, a lot of
Filipinos can already pronounce the "V" and "F" correctly, and so
there is less need to convert them into B's and P's...
Besides, as for the Spaniards, Spanish heritage is heavily
Roman-Latin influenced, and for the Americans, it's Anglo-Saxon
(English) heritage. For the Japanese, their culture is a borrowing
from that of the Chinese... For the Thais it's a mix of Sinhalese
Indian and Chinese... For the Russians, it's a mix of Slavic and
Greco-Byzantine culture... So you see, everybody does some
borrowing and exchanging somewhere. Let's not fall trap to the
xenophobic disease that some idiots and ignoramuses try to
diffuse.
>It is futile to resist the infusion of English words into the Filipino
>language. Or you could end up with monstrosities like "sinturong
>pangkaligtasan" (seatbelt). I say let the language evolve normally. DECs
>decision is just to formalize something that is already happening by itself.
I AGREE.
Orion Perez Dumdum
BS Computer Science Graduate 1995
BS Management Information Systems 1996 (in October)
Ateneo de Manila University
Philippines
Jonathan
On Wed, 08 May 1996 16:10:41 GMT, Baten...@kuleleng.com
(Enteng Batengteng) wrote:
>hostile about it. Rather, I try to explain it in a firm manner that
>the word Flip is offensive to every Filipino and is tantamount to
>calling a black person a "nig**r". It never fails to get their
>attention when the "n" word is involved, hence I use it to let them
>know how much I take offense to being called a "flip".
dont refer to me as "white boy", I wont refer to you as
"flip" or "nigger". If I dont take offense at being called
"white boy", "whitey", you shouldnt take offense at being
called "flip" or "nigger". is that clear?
Cam d'Leon
Enteng Batengteng
On Sat, 11 May 1996 16:12:33 GMT, jwal...@smartt.com (Jonathan)
wrote:
>On Wed, 08 May 1996 16:10:41 GMT, Baten...@kuleleng.com
>(Enteng Batengteng) wrote:
>>hostile about it. Rather, I try to explain it in a firm manner that
>>the word Flip is offensive to every Filipino and is tantamount to
>>calling a black person a "nig**r". It never fails to get their
>>attention when the "n" word is involved, hence I use it to let them
>>know how much I take offense to being called a "flip".
>
>dont refer to me as "white boy", I wont refer to you as
>"flip" or "nigger".
Where in the hell did you see on my post where I called you a "white
boy"???
Better clean your glasses kid, if you wear one. If you don't, then I
suggest wiping that smut off your 'ol blue, green, or brown eyes.
Besides, if I were to address you in a derogatory manner, I know of a
lot more vulgar description of a white man than "whitey" or
"white boy".
> If I dont take offense at being called
>"white boy", "whitey", you shouldnt take offense at being
>called "flip" or "nigger". is that clear?
>Cam d'Leon
No, that is not clear Cam. If you don't mind being called a "white
boy" then that is your prerogative, but you must not assume that I
won't or I shouldn't take offense to being referred to as "flip",
because the fact is, I do, and there's not a damn thing you can do to
change that.
Ka Enteng
Jonathan
>Where in the hell did you see on my post where I called you a "white
>boy"???
>Better clean your glasses kid, if you wear one. If you don't, then I
>suggest wiping that smut off your 'ol blue, green, or brown eyes.
you personally, did not. I have been on the receiving end
when that has been said in a derogatory way many times
though. you cant ignore that it happens. its just as
hurtful.
Cam
A.Jante
tr...@mckinney.edu (K. Trout) wrote:
>I suppose you can say that monumental decisions like the inclusion of the
>letter "F" in the alphabet should be agreed upon by the Filipino population.
>Since is this not practical, reasonable, or desirable, we look the government
>to make such decisions for the Filipino people. Therefore, DEC eminently HAS
>the right to do this.
I disagree ... perhaps if the decision had been voted upon by Congress
(our elected representatives, theoretically), or if the question had
been put to plebiscite. (Of course, if someone tells me that it _was_
voted upon by Congress, I'll just shut up :-) My point being that
the appointive gov't body of education, culture & sports seems to be
over-reaching itself (I thought is was there to promote & preserve
culture, not to dictate it).
>It is futile to resist the infusion of English words into the Filipino
>language. Or you could end up with monstrosities like "sinturong
>pangkaligtasan" (seatbelt). I say let the language evolve normally. DECs
>decision is just to formalize something that is already happening by itself.
I love it when someone tells me that resistance is futile ;) Sometimes
one resists on principle, you know. Unlike a particular appointed
ex-govt official, I don't believe that "if rape is inevitable one
should sit back and enjoy it".
I'm all for letting the language evolve naturally, but adopting the
English alphabet wholesale is stacking the deck, IMO. There's a
fine line between adopting foreign words and speaking pidgin.
(But don't ask me where that line lies - I'm no linguist).
>It is a good decision on DEC's part, and eminently reasonable.
You may be right - it might be a good decision. I still think the
decision was not DECS' to make (possibly to implement, but not
to make).
Anyway, thanks for sharing your views with me. I still stand by my
opinion, but I don't expect everyone/anyone to agree with me.
Alyn (isang _P_ilipino).
A.Jante
An impressive post, especially the sections written in "old tagalog
spelling". I'd like to point out, however, that the adoption of the
Spanish alphabet was during the time when Pilipinos still had no
concept of themselves as a nation. A colony is expected to do
colonial things, isn't it? The "ridiculous ABAKADA" was part of an
attempt of to foster the nascent national identity of a newly
supposedly independent state. An independent nation is hoped to
be independent in thought and identity as well.
As to gov't decrees, well my recent post covers my thoughts on that.
The main reason we use so many English words is that our whole
education system is based in English. I'm not saying this is a bad
thing - it gives us an edge in the international market, after all.
But one has to admit that it has been to the detriment of our
native languages. Since no attempt is made to translate curricula
in Math, Science, Psychology, Computer Science Engineering, etc.
into Pilipino, the words don't exist (hence sinturong pangkaligtasan).
Japan, Malaysia, etc etc don't have the same problem. Orion, if
Philosophy courses were not offered in Pilipino in Ateneo, would
you know what "pagmemeron" meant? Would the word even exist? So
where the attempt is made, new words are created, and used.
Anyway, it may be, as both of you say, inevitable. That does not
make it good. My objection stands.
Btw, I like your name - did you know that the constellation Orion
corresponds to the ancient Egyptian constellation of Osiris?
(Changing the subject as a polite way to turn to less debatable
topics).
Alyn
======================================================
Francisco Castro
Butch Denoga <bde...@diva.com> writes:
>
> I get offended and that's my opinion.
>
> Pinoy is more traditional...I accept this.
>
> Butch Denoga
>
Well, I personaly call myself and my other Pinoy friends
"Flips". It has nothing to do with being "sira-ulo" (although
at times we act the part).
It's a term we use to denote a filipino, and that's the end of
it. Why are some people so sensitive? I have always thought that
the PC (politically correct) movement, has gone overboard.
However, up to this point, I have always assumed that it was just
oversealous Americans who can be so trivial. I now see that it,
like so many other things, trancend political and ethnical
boundaries.
Rey Andrada
Francisco Castro <ak...@lafn.org> wrote:
>Butch Denoga <bde...@diva.com> writes:
>>
>> I get offended and that's my opinion.
>>
>> Pinoy is more traditional...I accept this.
>>
>> Butch Denoga
>>
>
>Well, I personaly call myself and my other Pinoy friends
>"Flips". It has nothing to do with being "sira-ulo" (although
>at times we act the part).
>
>It's a term we use to denote a filipino, and that's the end of
>it. Why are some people so sensitive? I have always thought that
>the PC (politically correct) movement, has gone overboard.
>
being flip has nothing to do with being PC (politically correct) movement . like you said above
-"It has nothing to do with being "sira-ulo""- this is the very reason why I don't want to be
called a flip.
Pinoy is a slang for Filipino and is far better than being called a flip. If you wanna call your-
self a flip hey be my guest, maybe you are a flip.
>However, up to this point, I have always assumed that it was just
>oversealous Americans who can be so trivial. I now see that it,
>like so many other things, trancend political and ethnical
>boundaries.
Rey
Enteng Batengteng
On 13 May 1996 00:22:40 GMT, Francisco Castro <ak...@lafn.org> wrote:
>Butch Denoga <bde...@diva.com> writes:
>>
>> I get offended and that's my opinion.
>>
>> Pinoy is more traditional...I accept this.
>>
>> Butch Denoga
>>
>
>Well, I personaly call myself and my other Pinoy friends
>"Flips". It has nothing to do with being "sira-ulo" (although
>at times we act the part).
>
>It's a term we use to denote a filipino, and that's the end of
>it. Why are some people so sensitive? I have always thought that
>the PC (politically correct) movement, has gone overboard.
>
>However, up to this point, I have always assumed that it was just
>oversealous Americans who can be so trivial. I now see that it,
>like so many other things, trancend political and ethnical
>boundaries.
Hey Flip,
So what's up flip? How's your flip family and all your flip friends?
'Hope they're all doing OK.
Pls. say hi to all them flips, OK?
Later flipper!
Ka Enteng
Jonathan A. Frater
My sister-in-law is a filipino lady. My brother calls her side of the
family "flips" all the time. They in turn, call us the "round eyes."
It's been a long standing joke, (and don't try to tell me that my brother
does not respect or love his wife.) Some people choose to take the hate
out of slurs by using them with humor. Hey, if someone calls you that
with hate, you punch them out, sure, but some people use it "in the
family." I only post this in hopes that you will keep this alternative
method of dealing with slurs in mind.
XXX-Madison
Orion Perez Dumdum
"A.Jante" <alyn_n...@sbphrd.com> wrote:
>tr...@mckinney.edu (K. Trout) wrote:
>>I suppose you can say that monumental decisions like the inclusion of the
>>letter "F" in the alphabet should be agreed upon by the Filipino population.
>>Since is this not practical, reasonable, or desirable, we look the government
>>to make such decisions for the Filipino people. Therefore, DEC eminently HAS
>>the right to do this.
>I disagree ... perhaps if the decision had been voted upon by Congress
>(our elected representatives, theoretically), or if the question had
>been put to plebiscite. (Of course, if someone tells me that it _was_
>voted upon by Congress, I'll just shut up :-) My point being that
>the appointive gov't body of education, culture & sports seems to be
>over-reaching itself (I thought is was there to promote & preserve
>culture, not to dictate it).
Well, well, well... Where'd the ABAKADA come from?
The ABAKADA, the ridiculous alphabet that we are now
replacing was itself an arbitrarily concocted alphabet by the
Institute of National Language. Before it, the alphabet we
used before was an old Spanish-derived alphabet which considered
certain consonantal combinations to be separate letters in
themselves. During that time, the 'F' was already part of the
alphabet used during Balagtas' and Rizal's time. Only after
the creation of the INL (Inst. for Nat. Lang) was the ridiculous
ABAKADA invented, and new spellings used. During the
Spanish times, "Ako ay Pilipino" was written as "Aco ay
Filipino." "Ginagago mo naman ako..." was written as
"Guinagago mo naman aco..." Now, the use of many foreign
words is inevitable, just as other languages borrow words from
others too. The return of certain useful letters like the "F" and
"V" which many Filipinos can now pronounce correctly without
confusing them with P's and B's is not an act of "replacing our
original alphabet," because our original orthography in the Latin
script, which is the old Spanish-style Tagalog alphabet which had
F's and V's, is more "original" than the ABAKADA.
>>It is futile to resist the infusion of English words into the Filipino
>>language. Or you could end up with monstrosities like "sinturong
>>pangkaligtasan" (seatbelt). I say let the language evolve normally. DECs
>>decision is just to formalize something that is already happening by itself.
>I love it when someone tells me that resistance is futile ;) Sometimes
>one resists on principle, you know. Unlike a particular appointed
>ex-govt official, I don't believe that "if rape is inevitable one
>should sit back and enjoy it".
>I'm all for letting the language evolve naturally, but adopting the
>English alphabet wholesale is stacking the deck, IMO. There's a
>fine line between adopting foreign words and speaking pidgin.
>(But don't ask me where that line lies - I'm no linguist).
It's not the English alphabet we're adopting...
It's the LATIN/ROMAN alphabet which we are
adopting in its entirety, the way it should have
always been. The ABAKADA was far too
restrictive and inadequate to fill in our
modern needs. Besides, if a Pinoy typewriter
were made, with only ABAKADA letters in them,
then you'd have had a totally inutile keyboard,
disallowing you from even SPELLING YOUR
NAME... Most Filipinos, remember, have
either English or Hispanic names, like
"Juan de la Cruz." A purely ABAKADA keyboard/
typewriter would have forced anyone with that
name to write: "Huan de la Krus."
... SILLY, AIN'T IT?
>>It is a good decision on DEC's part, and eminently reasonable.
>You may be right - it might be a good decision. I still think the
>decision was not DECS' to make (possibly to implement, but not
>to make).
Well, then maybe the Institute of National Language
didn't have the right to change the whole Tagalog
orthography from the elegant-looking one we already
had in the first place.
... Nang~ aco'y lumacbay sa may baybaying~-
dagat, aco'y nacaquita nang~ magandang~
dilag na ualang~ pa-a, cong~ jindi, !buntot
nang~ isda! ?Naquita mo na ba siya? ...
(It looks more exotic and more antique
{evoking respect for history} to me than
does the ABAKADA version of it, which
looks like the text written in ABANTE,
BANDERA, and all those trash tabloids,
if you ask me...)
>Anyway, thanks for sharing your views with me. I still stand by my
>opinion, but I don't expect everyone/anyone to agree with me.
It's been nice sharing some facts and views, too.
I hope that puts a new perspective to the issue...
>Alyn (isang _P_ilipino).
I just wanted to make it clear that the alphabet that
we choose to use must allow us to spell our very names
using it. It would have been useless to declare the
ABAKADA as the proper Filipino alphabet, if the majority
of the people won't be able to spell their names using the
ABAKADA.
(Hose Risal, Manwel Keson, Hwan Luna...
pwes, medyo nagmukhang Lee Kuan-Yew na yung
mga pangalan nila, ano?)
ORAYON PERES DUMDUM
LOYOLA HAYTS, KESON SITY
PILIPINS
... hindi yata bagay, ano?
Orion Perez Dumdum
BS Computer Science Graduate 1995
BS Management Information Systems 1996 (October)
Ateneo de Manila University
Philippines
Villa Victoria, J. Adlawan St., Linao (Provincial Address)
Minglanilla, Cebu
Philippines
Orion Perez Dumdum
"A.Jante" <alyn_n...@sbphrd.com> wrote:
Dear Alyn,
Hi! I see that there've been a lot of exchanges on this
particular topic... Anyway, before I begin, I just wanted to make
sure that I knew your gender. I had presumed that you are female...
I hope I'm not mistaken :)
>An impressive post, especially the sections written in "old tagalog
>spelling". I'd like to point out, however, that the adoption of the
Thank you. I always make sure that certain relevant facts that
haven't surfaced are made known so that all of us could arrive at
appropriate opinions which aren't based on ignorance or plain
gut-feel.
>Spanish alphabet was during the time when Pilipinos still had no
>concept of themselves as a nation.
I also wanted to point out that the proper term now is
"Filipinos," and not "Pilipinos." About the concept of nation...
Even until now, culturally speaking, the Philippines still isn't a
single nation. We aren't homogeneous like the Japanese and
the Germans whose countries are prime examples of Nation-States.
> A colony is expected to do
>colonial things, isn't it?
Just as all Western European countries which were colonies of the
Roman Empire use the Roman/Latin alphabet, and do not leave out
certain letters even if they don't use them in their language. Be
aware of the fact that practically all the Romance languages like
Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Italian, and French do not use the
letters K and W in their words, but still retain them in their
alphabet, so that foreign names of people and places and foreign
words they borrow can still be 'recognized.'
> The "ridiculous ABAKADA" was part of an
>attempt of to foster the nascent national identity of a newly
>supposedly independent state. An independent nation is hoped to
>be independent in thought and identity as well.
But I thought you said (in your earlier posts) that you didn't like
government departments who took matters into their own hands like what
DECS did when it chose to use the complete Roman-Latin alphabet...
The adoption of the ABAKADA was itself an arbitrary decision by the
Institute of National Language and didn't hold a plebiscite or a
Congressional hearing in order to arrive at that decision. I'm sure
you didn't mean to contradict yourself, but really, that's what you've
already done... As it turns out, the ABAKADA was a mistake because
Filipinos can't spell their names using it... so the government has
the right to rectify it by adopting the more practical complete
Roman-Latin alphabet.
>As to gov't decrees, well my recent post covers my thoughts on that.
>The main reason we use so many English words is that our whole
>education system is based in English. I'm not saying this is a bad
>thing - it gives us an edge in the international market, after all.
>But one has to admit that it has been to the detriment of our
>native languages. Since no attempt is made to translate curricula
>in Math, Science, Psychology, Computer Science Engineering, etc.
>into Pilipino, the words don't exist (hence sinturong pangkaligtasan).
>Japan, Malaysia, etc etc don't have the same problem.
Sure they don't...The Japanese are trying to learn English left
and right, and still feel they always lag in terms of information,
since most new books are in English... They make up for this lag with
their DISCIPLINE in whatever they do. (In many universities, there are
student-apprentices who do duty as English to Japanese book
translators, and do it out of a sense of Samurai-like feudal loyalty
to their 'Nihon.' The translations aren't always very good, but many
say that it's better than nothing...) Oh, and be aware of the fact
that so many hi-tech words and even non-hightech words in modern
Japanese come from English... ZAITEK means "high-tech..." And
"Merikurisumasu" means "Merry Christmas" just to show a few of the so
many examples.
As for Malaysia, read the multitudes of back issues on Malaysia's
language policy... Dr. Mahathir Mohammed has decided to allow
students to learn technical subjects using English, starting in the
secondary level because of the lack of books and the inadequacy of
Bahasa Malaysia to carry the subject matters. Besides, the
performance of the Malaysian Economy is not in anyway a result of the
country's fake Nationalism as pushed by the Bumiputras when they force
everyone to use Bahasa... The Malaysian Economy performs well because
of the existence of two minority groups who dominate the science and
technology, business, and academic fields... I'm refering to the
Indians and Chinese in Malaysia who together form some 30% of the
total Malaysian population... Those two minority groups also happen to
despise the use of Bahasa and would rather use ENGLISH...
> Orion, if
>Philosophy courses were not offered in Pilipino in Ateneo, would
>you know what "pagmemeron" meant? Would the word even exist?
To tell you the truth, I even think the orthography is wrong...
If they really wanted to be purist, they should have said
"Pagmamayroon" instead of "pagmemeron." Reason for the dearth:
There is no real Tagalog word for BEING, since there isn't any verb
for 'TO BE.' To say "I'm a human being," we say, "TAO AKO."
Where's the verb? You can't even say "Ako ay tao," and point to
"ay" as being the verb, since "ay" is grammatically a connective, and
not a verb.
> So
>where the attempt is made, new words are created, and used.
>Anyway, it may be, as both of you say, inevitable. That does not
>make it good. My objection stands.
Well, I'm sure that you'd agree with us that the ABAKADA
is ridiculous anyway, since you won't be able to write your name
using an ABAKADA typewriter...
"Alyn Hante?" ... I'm sure you'd want the J for
Jante included in the keyboard.
... and for Felipe de Guzman (theoretical
name), without the 'F' and 'Z', he'd
be forced to mutilate his own name...
>Btw, I like your name
Thanks! That's very nice of you... :)
>- did you know that the constellation Orion
>corresponds to the ancient Egyptian constellation of Osiris?
>(Changing the subject as a polite way to turn to less debatable
>topics).
I somehow read that somewhere, but I was
a lot more interested in the Mythology side
rather than the Astronomy side of my name's
origin.
Orion Perez Dumdum
BS Computer Science Graduate 1995
BS Management Information Systems (October 1996)
Ateneo de Manila University
Philippines
Orion Perez Dumdum
BS Computer Science Graduate 1995
BS Management Information Systems 1996 (October)
Ateneo de Manila University
Philippines
Villa Victoria, J. Adlawan St., Linao (Provincial Address)
Minglanilla, Cebu
Philippines
A.Jante
mi...@pworld.net.ph (Orion Perez Dumdum) wrote:
>"A.Jante" <alyn_n...@sbphrd.com> wrote:
>Anyway, before I begin, I just wanted to make
>sure that I knew your gender. I had presumed that you are female...
>I hope I'm not mistaken :)
Not to be snippy, but why do you think that's relevant?
> "Alyn Hante?" ... I'm sure you'd want the J for
> Jante included in the keyboard.
At least if it were spelled Hante I wouldn't have people here always
calling me Ms. Dyante? Ms. Janite? Ms. Janet? :)
Anyway, I think we've exhausted the alphabet topic, IMHO.
>>- did you know that the constellation Orion
>>corresponds to the ancient Egyptian constellation of Osiris?
> I somehow read that somewhere, but I was
> a lot more interested in the Mythology side
> rather than the Astronomy side of my name's
> origin.
It's been a while, so all I recall is that Orion was a great hunter,
favoured of Artemis, and, like her, despised marriage. He somehow
offended another god/dess? and even Artemis could not save him from
death. But because he was so special to her she placed him among
the stars, to hunt forever across the skies.
Do you remember the details?
Alyn
DJBayona
As long as we fronounce our f's froferly , I think there's no
froblem with that....
Andy Aganad
Jonathan A. Frater wrote:
>
> I only post this in hopes that you will keep this alternative
> method of dealing with slurs in mind.
eliminate the use of Flip from their environment. One persons use of it
in humor is another person's justification for using it in any other way
they want to use it.
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo
Andy Aganad <aag...@unix.sri.com> warbled:
Some young people of most racial groups take racial slurs and turn it,
within their community, into something positive. It's called
empowerment.
However, it is still not acceptable as a racial slur from someone
either outside of their community or from someone using it as such.
I first heard the term "flip" as a positive thing, from Americans who
take pride in their Pinoy heritage. Of course, if someone calls me a
"flip" in a negative manner, I will be the first to pity them for
their ignorance.
-joanna
--
]:o_ o/
|O = joanna l. salgado __ computer greek (delta gamma) ___|--
|_o= shower philosopher call...@leland.stanford.edu \
@ `
Enteng Batengteng
On 17 May 1996 16:47:52 GMT, DJBayona <10026...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>As long as we fronounce our f's froferly , I think there's no
>froblem with that....
Iksyusmi,
Did yu jas sey "ep" ??
Ka Enteng
Mark Framness
In message <4niajo$sa1$2...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> - DJBayona
<10026...@CompuServe.COM>17 May 1996 16:47:52 GMT writes:
MAF>
MAF>As long as we fronounce our f's froferly , I think there's no
MAF>froblem with that....
What is the big deal? If the populace wants Fs & Vs in the alphabet they will
be there if not no amount of govt. meddling will be able to force it on the
people. Look at the metric system in the USA. Our govt. has been trying to
force it on the USA for a long time now but no one is buying.
My guess is that Fs & Vs will be accepted as isn't your president named with
an F and a V? Fidel Villamor Ramos (Is this completely correct? I mean the
Villamor part).
--
From: Mark Allen Framness
Home: fram...@EMIRATES.NET.AE
Work: m4...@ugru.uaeu.ac.ae
All standard disclaimers apply. Anyone who says likewise is itching
for a fight!
Kathleen Bell
The Misericordia Foundation
"For the Preservation and Advancement of Catholic Culture"
PRESS RELEASE
"Holy Father Receives World Youth Day, 1995 CD-ROM"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
Milan, Italy, March 13,1996 -
Mabuhay ang Papa! -- the Philippine-produced interactive CD-ROM about
World Youth Day, 1995 -- presented to Pope John Paul II
A UNIQUE GIFT
Bearing a unique gift from the Filipino people, His Eminence, Jaime
Cardinal Sin, and Wilfredo Lao, President of Distributed Processing
Systems, Inc.(DPSI) recently visited Vatican City and His Holiness,
Pope John Paul II. Together, they presented Holy Father with his own
copy of Mabuhay ang Papa!, ("Welcome, Holy Father!") the first
Philippine-made CD-ROM on the historic Papal Visit of 1995, during the
celebration of World Youth Day.
AN HISTORIC EVENT
In a private audience with the Pontiff and the entire Pontifical
Council, Cardinal Sin and Mr. Lao, whose company produced the
documentary, handed over the Pope's own copy of Mabuhay ang Papa!.
Upon previewing the special CD-ROM documentary, which highlights the
sounds and images of the historic Papal Visit and World Youth Day
Celebration in January, 1995, the Pope had nothing but praise for the
project. The celebrations in Manila were an historic event - drawing
over five million faithful, the largest gathering in Pope John Paul
II's storied Pontificate. His Holiness also received a Power
Macintosh, donated by Apple Computer for his own personal use.
CAPTURED ON STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY
Made by DPSI and its affiliate, Apple Image Factory, Mabuhay ang Papa!
was sponsored by the Archdiocese of Manila.
Using the advances of the latest computer technologies, the Mabuhay
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print, audio and video recorded during the Papal visit. Composed of
five sections, Mabuhay ang Papa! incorporates movies, photographs,
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Currently available in English, in a Macintosh/PC version, Mabuhay ang
Papa! is expected to be released in many foreign languages and gain
worldwide distribution.
NOW AVAILABLE IN THE U.S.!
Now you can order this inspirational interactive documentary, a copy
of which Holy Father himself has. In the U.S., Mabuhay ang Papa! is
available from The Misericordia Foundation (TMF), a California non-
profit corporation dedicated to the preservation and advancement of
Catholic culture.
Mabuhay ang Papa! CD-ROM, Macintosh/Windows 3.1 $39.95 postage paid
To order by credit card send an e-mail message to:
miseri...@ewtn.com
or, FAX: 619-549-3802
(Please remember to give full name, type of credit card, card #,
expiration date, and billing address.)
By check or money order, send to:
The Misericordia Foundation
9336 Twin Mt. Circle
San Diego, CA 92126
(619) 689-2826 (after 5/23/96)
Please allow 2-4 weeks for delivery.
All TMF profits go to fund its ongoing charitable activities.
Orion Perez Dumdum
fbl...@ix.netcom.com(Felimar M Blanco) wrote:
>In <4lvc40$c...@mayumi.iphil.net> Radam <ra...@tridel.com.ph> writes:
>>
>>There's an F in the new Alpabetong Filipino which now consists of 28
>>letters. The new alphabet was implemented in 1987 yet through DECS
>Memo
>>No. 81 s. 1987. The new letters? The 26 letters in the English
>alphabet
>>plus the Spanish n (enye) and ng (enji).
>>
>>Aurora E. Batnag
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Who's idea is it again, screwing up our official Filipino
> alphabets? They call themselves 'educators' ... right?
But then again, the ABAKADA itself was
also a stupid idea by the Institute of
National Language... In short, it was
only a recent concoction. The new
28-letter alphabet seeks to remedy
problems of using an alphabet like the
ABAKADA which doesn't allow
Filipinos to even spell their names
correctly. Before the ABAKADA, there
already was a Roman-based alphabet
being used, and it was a modified version
of the Spanish alphabet.
... This decision to shift from ABAKADA
to the new one isn't in any way like the
decision of China and Singapore to
adopt a radically simplified form of Chinese
characters, thus virtually doing away with
the old characters which have been in use
for centuries and centuries, much longer than
Kong Tze's (Confucius') time. The ABAKADA
is itself a very YOUNG alphabet, which many
educators, teachers, and Filipino citizens found
to be very ridiculous, as it prevents them from
writing their own names, their street names, their
cities' names, their provinces' names, etc...
Davao is Davao, Cebu is Cebu,
Bacolod is Bacolod, and Bulacan is
Bulacan...
NOT
Dabao, Sebu, Bakolod, and Bulakan
... Besides, what ABAKADA did was to
replace the original Romanized alphabet which we
had been using for some 300 years after Spanish
missionaries translated religious texts into the
indigenous languages of the Philippines by inventing
an alphabet based on Spanish...
Here's a sample of what you might read
in old Tagalog texts...
?Sino ca ba? ?Quinain mo ba ang~
manoc nang~ capit-bajay co?
Jindi quita maa-aring~ patauarrin...
Guinagago mo naman aco...
Minamajal quita... Aauitan quita...
(ng~ refers to the 'ng' sound in "tanga..." if
the tilde {~} were removed, the pronunciation
would have been "tangga")
>
> On the issue of 'F', go out there anywhere in the Philippines
> and observe, how many percent of people you will meet who
> pronounces 'f' even though the word really contains the 'f'
> sound. My first name has 'F' but almost all of my friends
> who knows me for years still pronounces it with 'P' sound.
who've known me for years still pronounce it with a 'P' sound
> Historically, we used names with 'F', when we adopted Spanish
> names. Spaniards does clearly pronounce their 'F'. We never
> did.
>
The Spaniards do pronounce their F's clearly, albeit with a little
more air than do the English and the Americans... The Spanish
F-sound is a mixture of the dominant F sound and the slight H sound
in English.
> Will the people change their pronounciation now that we
> have the official "F" included in the alphabet?
Would you rather use an alphabet that forces you to spell your
name "Pelimar Blangko?"
> Remember, Pilipinos doesn't 'f'uck, we only ... puck. Are
don't
> our educators puck-up?
(sounds like the old Apple II game "Puckman"
instead of PACMAN)
The educators who first invented the ABAKADA in the
years after the 1920's were the "pakt-ap wans,"
I showed the following in another posting on the same topic:
Hose Risal, Klaro M. Rekto, Hulyan Pelipe, A. Bonipasyo,
Hwan Luna....
...how's that to you?
...a perfect ABAKADA spelling of their
names... no F's no J's no C's, etcetera...
... sounds like SACRILEGE to ME!!!!
... no to the ABAKADA!
Wilson TAN-HO
Enteng Batengteng (Baten...@kuleleng.com) wrote:
: On 17 May 1996 16:47:52 GMT, DJBayona <10026...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
: >As long as we fronounce our f's froferly , I think there's no
: >froblem with that....
: Iksyusmi,
: Did yu jas sey "ep" ??
: Ka Enteng
Beri gud ka pa sa olrayt, Ka Enteng,
Ang "P" ay ipo-pronawns mo as "PEE"; ang "F" naman ay "EFF" ---
Did you get my foint?
...bistik
------------
EJFantone
I think it should be there....all languages are progressive and in a state
of constant change...the letter F should be in our language or I'll lose
my identity....my last name starts with it......:-)
jeff
