Why don't Filipino parents teach their children to speak Tagalog?
MAN...@webtv.net
What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
Pilipino or Tagalog? Mexican children can speak Spanish fluently,
Russian children speak Russian, Laotian children speak Laos, Hmong
children speak Hmong, respectively. The Filipino child can only speak
English. What is going on here? Is it to say that Mexicans, Russians,
Laotians, Hmongs are better than Filipinos.
I was born in the Philippines but came to America when I was two and a
half years old. I lived with my adopted parents my father an Ilokano my
mother an American. I did not have the chance to learn our language or
even my own dialect Ilokano while growing up since English was the
household language. That's my reason why I didn't learn at home.
What about those children raised by Filipino parents where the mother
and father can both speak Tagalog? What is the excuse of the parents?
Is it your child is not intelligent to learn? Perhaps maybe you fear
that your child will develop the Filipino "accent" or have problems with
the English language and have trouble being assimilated into American
culture. Or is it you are ashamed of your language and culture and do
not wish to pass it down to your children since you are no longer in the
Philippines? Do I need to remind you that language is a very important
part of any culture because it is the means by which an ethnic group
communicates with one another.
I congratulate the parents that at least speak Tagalog to their
children. I know some children of Filipino parents that say, "well I
can understand but I can't speak." For you parents like that I
ENCOURAGE you to encourage your children to try to speak back to you in
Tagalog even if it's not 100% correct or the stress or accent is not in
the correct place. Those things can be corrected!!! At least they will
learn how to speak unlike the ones that have not been taught by their
parents and the only words in their Tagalog vocabulary are words such as
tae, ihi, tanga, and other words I do not wish to add.
Some of you may be thinking who am I talk since your parents did not
teach you either and you cannot speak Tagalog either. To answer your
question yes it is true that my parents did not teach me but yes I can
speak Tagalog and Ilokano.
I started learning in 1991 from a teacher in my highschool how to speak
by being her asistant. I learned from speaking with other Filipinos. I
practiced and even went home to the Philippines and learned more there.
True, when I speak Tagalog or Ilokano I may not always be gramatically
correct and I do not have a Filipino accent. Usually the people that I
speak to are proud tt I can speak what I can and encourage me to learn
more. In the Philippines they told me kahit wrong grammer basta
maintindihan kita or in Iloakano uray wrong grammer basta agsarita tayo.
So, please parents of Filipino children here in the United States I urge
you to teach your children our native language because if you do not
that part of our Philippine culture will not be passed on down and that
would be such a shame. (Sayang!!!)
Joel
ELBIS IPIS
Manong2 wrote:
>What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
>cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
>Pilipino or Tagalog?
Every American you meet is either a Filipino-American, Italian-American,
Irish-American, Chinese-American, German-American, etc., etc., etc.
Now, does EVERY Italian-American speak Italian? Does EVERY Chinese-American
speak Chinese? Etc., etc. Of course not. Therefore, in the same way, you
are not going to find every Filipino-American able to speak tagalog. By the
same token, of course there ARE also those Filipino-Americans who DO know how
to speak Tagalog. There ARE those Italian-Americans who DO know how to speak
Italian. Etc., etc. But, come on......you can't expect EVERY
Filipino-American or EVERY _______-American to be able to speak their parents
and grand-parents language.
Timothy Joseph Harvey
Agreed. This sort of post has been a staple here since day one. It's
hard for Fil-Ams to discover their heritage without understanding the
language.
It's interesting to note what has happened to the decendents of the many
European immigrants - you see them express there "I'm just an individual
like everyone else" point of view here all the time. That is one of the
unfortunate side-effects of the American "melting pot" - replacement of
one's cultural heritage with Mickey Mouse thinking and cultural arrogance
(why should I be interested in any other culture when mine is the best -
everyone wants to be American anyway).
To MANONG2. In our house, our daughter will grow to know Bisaya as well
as English. Both are her heritage, and as her parents, we'll not deny
her what should be a source of pride. . . just to satisfy American demands
for cultural sameness.
Thanks for an excellent post.
Tim
MarcL <m...@gsb.curtin.edu.au> wrote:
: Arguably, one of the best posts here in SCF in years.
: MAN...@webtv.net wrote:
: > So, please parents of Filipino children here in the United States I urge
: > you to teach your children our native language because if you do not
: > that part of our Philippine culture will not be passed on down and that
: > would be such a shame. (Sayang!!!)
: >
--
Tim Harvey rightWrite, Incorporated r...@teleport.COM (503) 977-3627
Rick Parker
Interesting subject. I am an american getting ready to hopefully get
married to my Filipina girlfriend. I have talked several times about
wanting her to teach me and our children Tagalog. Her answer at least when
I ask her to teach me, is that she is not a good teacher. Maybe it is just
easier to teach their chidren one language. I am definitely going to
encourage my girlfriend to teach our children Tagalog as well as about the
culture and history of the Philippines. Of course the other excuse she uses
not to teach me is that if I learn Tagalog too well, she won't be able to
talk on the phone with her mom about me because I will know what she is
saying. She also doesn't want me to know what she is saying when we have a
fight or something. Ha. Ha. Ha. In summary, if I have anything to do
with it, our children will learn the language and history of the US, but of
the Phillipines as well. I want them to be well informed about both of
their heritages.
------------------------------Part of Original Message
follows----------------------------
>What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
>cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
>Pilipino or Tagalog? ................ The Filipino child can only speak
>English.
Azmik
im 3/4 Ilocano and my parents didnt teach me either save the essential
Tagalog and Ilocano for "small talk".
One reason is that my parents didn't want me to have an accent. Whether or
not I would have had an accent if I learned more Tagalog or Ilocano is
beyond me. and why should we speak the national language? why not Ilocano,
Cebuano, Ilongo, Kapampangan, Pangasinan, etc.?
AZMIK
MarcL
rycong
AZMIK
Well I think they made TAGALOG as our national language because it's
pretty cool and it is also easy to say and understand.
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo
And MAN...@webtv.net said 'Let there be words!' and there were plenty:
>I congratulate the parents that at least speak Tagalog to their
>children. I know some children of Filipino parents that say, "well I
>can understand but I can't speak." For you parents like that I
>ENCOURAGE you to encourage your children to try to speak back to you in
>Tagalog even if it's not 100% correct or the stress or accent is not in
>the correct place. Those things can be corrected!!! At least they will
>learn how to speak unlike the ones that have not been taught by their
>parents and the only words in their Tagalog vocabulary are words such as
>tae, ihi, tanga, and other words I do not wish to add.
I'm one of those people who can understand but can't speak. It's sad,
really. I started growing up speaking both English and Tagalog
fluently, but when I started school, English became my more
predominant language. My Tagalog started having an American accent in
it, and the adults in my family would tease me about it. (I'm all for
respecting your elders, but honestly, my dad's family can be real
assholes sometimes.) Now, at those tender ages, teasing children is
VERY VERY BAD. I refused to speak Tagalog thereafter, and now I
probably couldn't, even if I tried.
-joanna
--
"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich."
-- "Ali Baba Bunny" [1957, Chuck Jones]
Leon Kilat
I hope you're not one of those Pinays who cannot communicate in Pilipino
but is relatively fluent in Spanish and French. If you are, I may just
give myself a papercut and pour lemon juice all over it. I just know too
many of those wimmen.
Phil Gothro
ELBIS IPIS wrote:
>
> Manong2 wrote:
>
> >What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
> >cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
> >Pilipino or Tagalog?
>
> Irish-American, Chinese-American, German-American, etc., etc., etc.
>
> Now, does EVERY Italian-American speak Italian? Does EVERY Chinese-American
> speak Chinese? Etc., etc. Of course not. Therefore, in the same way, you
> are not going to find every Filipino-American able to speak tagalog. By the
> same token, of course there ARE also those Filipino-Americans who DO know how
> to speak Tagalog. There ARE those Italian-Americans who DO know how to speak
> Italian. Etc., etc. But, come on......you can't expect EVERY
> Filipino-American or EVERY _______-American to be able to speak their parents
> and grand-parents language.
(Americans) togeather... We should have something in common....
Elizabeth Hildegard Pisares
My parents did not teach me or my siblings Tagalog or Ilokano
because in light of their experiences with racism, severe and subtle,
and of their living in a predominantly white city, they did not want
their children to be discriminated against because of accents. According
to my mom, when I was in elementary school, the school would bus out
of the area "non-english speaking" students. In graduate school I
learned Tagalog eventually. But since me/my siblings inability to speak
a Philippine language was a consequence of my parents' reaction to
white American racism, I'd say our English-only misfortune makes me just
as Filipino American as a US-born Pinay or Pinoy who can speak Tagalog,
Ilokano, etc., Besides, all just "real" or "authentic" Filipino
posturing does not help me understand Filipino or Filipino American
identity, culture, problems in the US, etc., It just makes me sad to
watch Filipinos who are just as closed-minded as "English-only" white
Americans.
Elizabeth Pisares
D
posturing doesnt'
Tansong Isda
Elizabeth Hildegard Pisares wrote:
My experience as a Tagalog speaking parent was different. As my children
started school, I received a questioner about us. Do we speak another
language at home? was one of the question.I answered yes and it is Tagalog.
This answer must trigered something, because a few days later, a school
official came to my home telling me not to speak Tagalog to my children,
their rationale is to encourage and teach my kids to communicate better in
English. Communicate? I got mad and explained that my Father was American
and we speak American English at home, and this experience did not stop me
from communicating properly with kids my age. I am not going to stop
reminding my children from where our blood lines and culture and they should
be brought up this way in my point of view.
The lady(it was a woman) was surprised at my answer and don't know what to
say. I added that most first generation immigrant did the same and this did
not make their children ignorant of the world.
Sadly though, I got got divorced and now, my children from this other 'wife'
could not speak Tagalog.
My children with this new wife speaks Taglish, and I'm at the point that I
should start instructing this kids the proper use of the language.
Unfortunately, since I'm bi-lingual, and my Tagalog is mixed with 'Street'
Tagalog, a lot of 'namo naman' proper Tagalog is difficult for me. But my
speaks proper Tagalog so, no problem.
Timothy Joseph Harvey
Your "sadness" is mighty white of you Elizabeth. I think your parent's
plan to spare you racism worked far better than even they imagined. . .
your attitude is like those who inflicted racism on your parents.
I could give you a long explanation, but let me ask you this. How likely
is it that those Pinoys/ays who you complain about will bus whites out of
public schools to maintain "Filipino purity?"
If you're honest, perhaps you'll understand that it's a white trick to
hold the posturing of powerless Filipinos the same as the racist actions
of American culture. In fact, if you can shake your white brainwashing
for a second, you'd understand that such posturing is an attempt to hold
on to Filipino identity in a culture that would whitewash it away.
I wouldn't expect you to "go Pinay", but I would expect you to develop
some sympathetic understanding of those who do, and resist the urge to
side with the white racist thread of American culture.
Tim
Elizabeth Hildegard Pisares <el...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
<SNIP>
: Ilokano, etc., Besides, all just "real" or "authentic" Filipino
: posturing does not help me understand Filipino or Filipino American
: identity, culture, problems in the US, etc., It just makes me sad to
: watch Filipinos who are just as closed-minded as "English-only" white
: Americans.
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo
Why? I had to learn French in school. After six years of French in
junior high and high school, I'd BETTER be relatively fluent. I got
good grades in French. Unfortunately, my second-rate public school
didn't offer classes in Pilipino. Are there ANY high schools in the
United States that offer at least 4 levels of Pilipino classes? But
if you'd like to give yourself a paper cut and rub lemon juice all
over it, that's your prerogative. I think you'd be very silly to do
it, though.
"I know too many of those wimmen"??? What's wrong with pinays who had
to learn another language in school and were traumatized in childhood
when they attempted to speak Tagalog? Give me a break!
I know too many men with penises. I hope you don't have one. If you
do, I'll hop on one foot around my living room.
-joanna
And Leon Kilat <ki...@pasil.com> said 'Let there be words!' and there were plenty:
--
___________________ I'm just a dream on a lonely night...___________________
Thisisasubliminalmessage:ReadFoolontheHillbyMattRuffAtlanticMonthlyPress1988
John J. Cristobal
*sigh* It's just too darn bad that I don't have the time given my very
busy sched...For a while now I've had this desire to teach Pilipino
classes (informally--don't have PhD :) esp. to those Pinoys who were
born/raised here in the US. Often I take it for granted that I speak it
fluently. I guess it's the satisfaction of imparting and sharing a part
of your culture to others that motivates me. It's really something
fascinating to study and learn.
Oh well, I hope I find the time one of these days...
--John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John J. Cristobal jcris...@digitalmarket.com
udu0...@email.sjsu.edu www.mathcs.sjsu.edu/student/cris1154
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tansong Isda
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo wrote:
> Why? I had to learn French in school. After six years of French in
> junior high and high school, I'd BETTER be relatively fluent. I got
> good grades in French. Unfortunately, my second-rate public school
> didn't offer classes in Pilipino. Are there ANY high schools in the
> United States that offer at least 4 levels of Pilipino classes? But
> if you'd like to give yourself a paper cut and rub lemon juice all
> over it, that's your prerogative. I think you'd be very silly to do
> it, though.
>
> "I know too many of those wimmen"??? What's wrong with pinays who had
> to learn another language in school and were traumatized in childhood
> when they attempted to speak Tagalog? Give me a break!
>
> I know too many men with penises. I hope you don't have one. If you
> do, I'll hop on one foot around my living room.
>
> -joanna
>
> >> My Tagalog started having an American accent in
> >> it, and the adults in my family would tease me about it. (I'm all for
> >>
> >> respecting your elders, but honestly, my dad's family can be real
> >> assholes sometimes.) Now, at those tender ages, teasing children is
> >> VERY VERY BAD. I refused to speak Tagalog thereafter, and now I
> >> probably couldn't, even if I tried.
> >>
> >> -joanna
I can be like that among my kids(asshole, it's my job as a Dad, my kid's job is to
figure out why and I let them know it), you can still learn Tagalog or other languages
if you want. Mr. kilat just knows too many Filipinas with noses turned upwards, and
probably most of them are raised or were birthed here. Since he probably didn't
couldn't understand.
Anyway, if you refused to learn Tagalog, maybe that's why you never understood why
your elders are such assholes.
Rhett Valino Pascual
>remenber this it is the English language that tie's all of us
>(Americans) togeather... We should have something in common....
i believe you misunderstood the question. the question asked why
filipinos don't teach their children tagalog. the question did not ask
for parents to only teach tagalog and not english.
it seems that even writing in english is not enough to make people
understand each other even though english makes us have something in
common. this is probably another reason to learn another language.
REtong
--
*******************************************************************
http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/ginza/4890/index.html
Leon Kilat
Well, I decided not to give myself a papercut. When I first saw your
post, it gave me the impression that you're a white girl trapped inside
a Filipina's body. Then I saw your webpage and previous posts in Deja
News. I can see where you're coming from. You're all right. You didn't
need to bring my penis into this discussion.
Tikbalang
The reason there is that English is the lingua franca in the Philippines and
not the National Language that is Filipino. In the Philippines, if you talk a
perfect or fluent English you will be highly regarded. In fact, even the
Tagalog people hate to speak in Tagalog and so with other ethnic groups in the
Philippines. That is the reason also why the Tagalog movie industry there can
not make money in making pictures unless the movie has sex appeal. To those
kids who could not speak any dialects in the Philippines, don't worry and be
happy for every Filipino can speak the American English.
Eric J. Liwanag
On 10 Nov 1997, Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo wrote:
> And MAN...@webtv.net said 'Let there be words!' and there were plenty:
<snip>
> >ENCOURAGE you to encourage your children to try to speak back to you in
> >Tagalog even if it's not 100% correct or the stress or accent is not in
> >the correct place. Those things can be corrected!!! At least they will
> >learn how to speak unlike the ones that have not been taught by their
> >parents and the only words in their Tagalog vocabulary are words such as
<snip>
> fluently, but when I started school, English became my more
> predominant language. My Tagalog started having an American accent in
> it, and the adults in my family would tease me about it. (I'm all for
> respecting your elders, but honestly, my dad's family can be real
> assholes sometimes.) Now, at those tender ages, teasing children is
> VERY VERY BAD. I refused to speak Tagalog thereafter, and now I
> probably couldn't, even if I tried.
I can't form sentences in tagalog or understand much, either. As far as
I can remember, my parents didn't try to teach me any. I think I may have
created some sort of mental block to foreign languages as a child. I took
french in HS and spanish in college and never got the hang of either. As
a child, I was perfectly content with blocking out all speech going on
around me that wasn't english. I regret it now. I'd like to be able to
understand and speak tagalog well.
The teasing by adults to children doesn't help kids learn. We had this
book in tagalog and me and my sister were reading from it to our parents
one time. (one of those long car ride vacations from what I remember). We
would read and ask for translations and they would laugh and make fun.
Brutal. I may not have made much of an effort to learn back then, but they
didn't make much of an effort to teach.
A few months back, I was over at my parents house for dinner. We had
relatives over and were having dinner. They were speaking tagalog, I was
trying, not quite successfully, to follow along. In one of the
conversation lulls, my dad turns to me and asks if I know what they're
talking about. I tell him the truth. No. He gives me one of those
disapproving dad looks, shakes his head and tells me, "You should
have learned how to speak tagalog." Let me tell you, that really steamed
me. Good thing something that I did learn was respect for elders because I
wanted to tell him off because he didn't even attempt to teach me before.
Why should he expect me to know now?
-eric
___________________________
Eric J. Liwanag
er...@shore.net
http://www.shore.net/~ericl
MariaClara
Eric J. Liwanag wrote:
>
>
> I can't form sentences in tagalog or understand much, either. As far as
> I can remember, my parents didn't try to teach me any. I think I may have
> created some sort of mental block to foreign languages as a child. I took
> french in HS and spanish in college and never got the hang of either. As
> a child, I was perfectly content with blocking out all speech going on
> around me that wasn't english. I regret it now. I'd like to be able to
> understand and speak tagalog well.
>
> The teasing by adults to children doesn't help kids learn. We had this
> book in tagalog and me and my sister were reading from it to our parents
> one time. (one of those long car ride vacations from what I remember). We
> would read and ask for translations and they would laugh and make fun.
> Brutal. I may not have made much of an effort to learn back then, but they
> didn't make much of an effort to teach.
>
> A few months back, I was over at my parents house for dinner. We had
> relatives over and were having dinner. They were speaking tagalog, I was
> trying, not quite successfully, to follow along. In one of the
> conversation lulls, my dad turns to me and asks if I know what they're
> talking about. I tell him the truth. No. He gives me one of those
> disapproving dad looks, shakes his head and tells me, "You should
> have learned how to speak tagalog." Let me tell you, that really steamed
> me. Good thing something that I did learn was respect for elders because I
> wanted to tell him off because he didn't even attempt to teach me before.
> Why should he expect me to know now?
********************
i don't think it's too late to learn tagalog. my husband's family
speaks kapangpangan and just by being around them, i am slowly learning
kapangpangan as well. what i do is ask them to repeat it in
kapangpangan, break it down and translate it. they're all very willing
to teach me. i didn't realize i started understanding the dialect until
my sister was over one day and my in-laws were speaking kapangpangan and
i had responded back in english. my sis asked me what did they say?
you understood all that? i actually started to understand them without
even realizing it! also, just reading tagalog in this ng has helped me
brush up on my tagalog. i'm still writing in taglish but give me a few
more years...
about your comment on respecting the elders. i'm having difficulty
with that filipino tradition. teaching my kids not to be rude is one
thing but i also teach my kids to speak out when they feel a person is
wrong whether they are young or old--- in a nice way of course! there
were many occasions when i've heard filipino elders tell my kids that
they shouldn't talk back to them simply because my kids had disagreed
with them. my kids weren't being rude about it. i really feel that
sometimes the elders abuse this tradition! since i'm not around all the
time to protect them, i tell my kids to remember that adults can be
corrected also! i also teach my kids to question their teachers---- or
ANYbody else for that matter, about anything adults might say or do that
would make my kids feel bad or uncomfortable in any way (unless they
know it's their fault!). if they get brushed off or ignored, let me
know and i will call the teacher or whoever (i've done this a few times
and believe me, they start paying attention!). too many times, adults
brush kids off as if their opinions or feelings don't count. and soon
kids will believe that they don't count. i tell my kids that they are
human and that they have the right to be heard just as much as adults!
i tell them NOT to believe adults when they accuse them of being
disrespectful or too "americanized" or whatever for simply trying to
express their views. they must speak their minds and not succumb to
their stupid mentality. being dark DOESN'T mean ugly, being light
DOESN'T mean pretty, gays are NOT weird, it's OK to have an african
american friend, and in the work place they CAN excel as far---if not
farther than a blonde and blue eyed man----- i am here to make sure they
don't acquire the "elder" mentality!
whew! that was long! excuse me but my kids are calling me... ;-)
RDL
On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 18:34:27 -0800, MAN...@webtv.net wrote:
>What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
>cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
>Pilipino or Tagalog? Mexican children can speak Spanish fluently,
You want the truth?
You answered it already.
> Perhaps maybe you fear
>that your child will develop the Filipino "accent" or have problems with
>the English language and have trouble being assimilated into American
>culture. Or is it you are ashamed of your language and culture and do
>not wish to pass it down to your children since you are no longer in the
>Philippines?
<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>
RDL
replace "cool" with "hot" to reply
Tansong Isda
Eric J. Liwanag wrote:
> On 10 Nov 1997, Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo wrote:
>
> I can't form sentences in tagalog or understand much, either. As far as
> I can remember, my parents didn't try to teach me any. I think I may have
> created some sort of mental block to foreign languages as a child. I took
> french in HS and spanish in college and never got the hang of either. As
> a child, I was perfectly content with blocking out all speech going on
> around me that wasn't english. I regret it now. I'd like to be able to
> understand and speak tagalog well.
>
> The teasing by adults to children doesn't help kids learn. We had this
> book in tagalog and me and my sister were reading from it to our parents
> one time. (one of those long car ride vacations from what I remember). We
> would read and ask for translations and they would laugh and make fun.
> Brutal. I may not have made much of an effort to learn back then, but they
> didn't make much of an effort to teach.
>
> A few months back, I was over at my parents house for dinner. We had
> relatives over and were having dinner. They were speaking tagalog, I was
> trying, not quite successfully, to follow along. In one of the
> conversation lulls, my dad turns to me and asks if I know what they're
> talking about. I tell him the truth. No. He gives me one of those
> disapproving dad looks, shakes his head and tells me, "You should
> have learned how to speak tagalog." Let me tell you, that really steamed
> me. Good thing something that I did learn was respect for elders because I
> wanted to tell him off because he didn't even attempt to teach me before.
> Why should he expect me to know now?
>
> -eric
> ___________________________
> Eric J. Liwanag
> er...@shore.net
> http://www.shore.net/~ericl
Most Filipino parents doesn't want to force the kids to learn Tagalog, seeing that most
Hispanic kids are being forced by their parents to speak Spanish and like me it looks
sad, because I want my kids to be able to converse(switch back and forth comfortably) in
both languages.
Most hispanic kids aren't respected by other Hispanics if they couldn't speak English,
for me just the idea of forcing the kids is an distasteful.
We speak Tagalog at home and I don't speak English with my kids and still they forget, I
tell them they'll be sorry and I am right about this.
Perception, you misunderstood your Dad, his look means "HesusMariaHosep, ewan ko ba kung
papaano ang gagawin ko?".
Unlike Hispanics, Filipinos have so many dialects, uncommon to each other and some
husband and wives speak different tounges.
And some Filipinos who came here(first generation) speaks Taglish, enough to confuse the
next generation. And some(the way I heard some people do) speaks Tagalog only when
speaking with maids(chimays).
When my kids start to like hamburgers better than tuyo, I knew that there will be a
struggle.
AC21209
Uh, Tik-
What are you talking about?
While there may be something to be said about some Filipinos (including
Tagalogs) that prefer english over their dialect, this seems to be limited to
the more "sosyal" type of Filipino. The younger generation that you find in
Ayala-Alabang, Makati, Forbes or other, similar, wealthy areas. The greater
majority of Filipinos, while being able to understand and communicate if they
absolutely have to in English, much prefer and speak their dialect. Your
statement is absurd.
Continuing on: the Philippine movie industry cannot make money without the sex
appeal aspect- and this is because of language??? Are you confused, because I
am. While production houses do produce TF movies, there is still a plethora
of dramas, comedies and action films to satiate the viewing desires of the
public. You are in FantasyLand if you believe for a moment that Neo, Viva,
Regal, Seiko and the others are not making money in their business. While it
is no doubt that the production quality of RP films is not to the level of US
films, they are designed specifically for the tastes of the "masa" and provide
a good deal of entertainment in that respect. On top of all that, the average
budget is US$130,000 per picture.
Possibly, you should re-think whatever it is that you are trying to say,
because what you have said is rather confusing.
***********************************
You Know Who
Motion Picture Production Manager
ac2...@aol.com
Bgdomingo
Why would I teach my children our National Language??? They were born here in
America...then might as well let speak American language. Why make things
hard for them??? There is no use for them to learn the parents language.
That's my opinion. No offense.
================================================================
Bong D
"The Deep South"
John J. Cristobal
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Eric J. Liwanag wrote:
> The teasing by adults to children doesn't help kids learn. We had this
> book in tagalog and me and my sister were reading from it to our parents
> one time. (one of those long car ride vacations from what I remember). We
> would read and ask for translations and they would laugh and make fun.
> Brutal. I may not have made much of an effort to learn back then, but they
> didn't make much of an effort to teach.
There's a whole lot of truth in this. Not a few times have I heard
of parents who, instead of patiently and properly correcting their
children's grammatical structures, would instead poke fun at them
and their funny accents. Even worse, they would even make their kids
the butt of jokes during family get-togethers. I think some parents
should realize what they're doing. Some children will exhibit interest
in learning the language even at a young age, but with this type of
"support" from mom and dad, how can they ever be motivated and encouraged
to persevere?
There's one of these incidents that brings a smile to my lips. I recall
an acquaintance of mine, a Pinay who was raised here in the US. She
initially did not speak any (or just a little) Pilipino, but during
high school and afterwards, she had a bf who spoke it fluently. He
diligently taught her the language, and in a matter of time, she spoke
it like a native. They have since broken up, but she still speaks it
very well. The moral: Have your Pilipino-speaking bf/gf teach you!!
> A few months back, I was over at my parents house for dinner. We had
> relatives over and were having dinner. They were speaking tagalog, I was
> trying, not quite successfully, to follow along. In one of the
> conversation lulls, my dad turns to me and asks if I know what they're
> talking about. I tell him the truth. No. He gives me one of those
> disapproving dad looks, shakes his head and tells me, "You should
> have learned how to speak tagalog." Let me tell you, that really steamed
> me. Good thing something that I did learn was respect for elders because I
> wanted to tell him off because he didn't even attempt to teach me before.
> Why should he expect me to know now?
To some extent, I would have to call that righteous anger. Your dad
possibly was never aware of his shortcomings, and simply threw the blame
on you. Presumptions and misguided intentions (no matter how good they
may be) sometimes become a part of the picture. Though, your parents
didn't totally fail in their pedagogy, as you do know well enough to
respect your elders as you say. Just brush off that chip on your shoulder,
and let that be. It's not too late to learn any foreign language (let
alone Tagalog, in your case); it just takes a sprinkling of earnest and
perseverance. Who knows? Maybe you'll be eloquent enough someday to
visit the PI and haggle at the Divisoria Flea Market :)
--John
>
> -eric
> ___________________________
> Eric J. Liwanag
> er...@shore.net
> http://www.shore.net/~ericl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rhett Valino Pascual
In article <19971115165...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
Bgdomingo <bgdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>Why would I teach my children our National Language??? They were born here in
> America...then might as well let speak American language. Why make things
> hard for them??? There is no use for them to learn the parents language.
bong, do you know rcwarrior? as i remember, he's from the south and also
was not taught any of the filipino culture. do you enjoy the material
that rc manages to scrawl off from his mind? well if you do, i guess you
are on your way to making another rc. can you mind keeping them in your
state? don't let them travel to california as we have enough rc's to last
a lifetime.
Bgdomingo
>BTW, no offense taken. You probably represent a majority of Filipino
>parents in the US.
>There's nothing wrong with Filipino-Americans who cannot speak
>Pilipino. But children will not find it difficult to learn to speak
>more than one language.
>
>What I'm trying to say is: if Filipino-Americans learn their parent's
>language, they will be as thoroughly familiar with the Filipino culture
>just as well as the mainstream American culture.
>
>
For one thing, I don't want my children to learn about our culture. Out culture
or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and raised in
Manila...is purely a backward culture. If they want to learn our native
language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn it....why force
them???
*kama...@kurokuro.net
Perseus wrote:
>
> *kamagong*@kurokuro.net <*kamagong*@kurokuro.net> wrote in message
[cut]
> >I would add....go rent some Taglog movies!!!
> >View the Pinoy...Fil-Am news reports if available in your area.
>
> On the Tagalog movies, my nephews and nieces comments inlcude among
> others: Too Long !! Tedious !! Dumb !!
Then there is attitude....if you rent movies for entertainment, well
if one is used to seeing a Hollywood flavor, Tagalog movies
may be as you describe. It is different.
But if you rent it to find out through actions what the language means
than maybe there is a possibility of learning.
For a slower pace to learn the language, one can try komik books.
It's hard for anyone to learn if there is no "CAN DO" attitude.
[cut]
> all. I'm gearing them towards other languages, and surprisingly,
> they're more interested, than in learning pilipino or some other local
> dialect -- which I think is preferrable.
Because??? Someday I hope those kids you have wont regret not having
learned pilipino. If you are comfortable that they won't then that's
your call as a parent.
> I think that we should not confuse language with culture -- if
> teaching the kids to speak means preservation of the culture. God
> forbid, but, that can be a scary thought -- passing filipino culture.
Again...why??? every culture has it's bad side. I hope you can find
the good ones. You are here (SCF), so obviously you find or are trying
to
find some redeeming traits.
> I'd rather leave it that way. Chances are, they won't be blaming us for
> not insisting that they learn the language or absorb the culture.
Hmmm, you are not another one of those fortune tellers, are you??
Melenin(?) skin color is hard to change. It takes $$$$ just like
Michael J. unless of course your kids do not have that problem.
In case you can tell fortune, any tips on the next CA lottery?
> Raising the kids properly, with the right values is enough. Caring and
> tending them to acquire positive values and developing that self-esteem
> is more important than worrying about our kid's ability to speak native.
I agree...although I never worry about any kids ability to learn native
languages. You got your values from your native land...passed on through
generations, the native language somehow got you there although it is
not
necessary but it is instrumental.
> There's the tendency in many of us to think that the kids should be like
> us.
It can be good, and it can be bad. Only time will tell how the parents
fared in their duties. Awareness of this is will be a big help.
*kama...@kurokuro.net
John J. Cristobal wrote:
>
> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Eric J. Liwanag wrote:
>
> > The teasing by adults to children doesn't help kids learn. We had this
>
> There's a whole lot of truth in this. Not a few times have I heard
I agree with both points but everyone should bear in mind that there is
some Pinoy style humor when some "teasing" is being made. It is
inconsiderate
of the person trying to learn but if you are familiar with the humor, as
typified by Filipino jokes...consider this teasing a harmless thing.
Almost surely deep inside the parents minds is that THEY ARE GLAD you
are trying to learn.
> very well. The moral: Have your Pilipino-speaking bf/gf teach you!!
I would add....go rent some Taglog movies!!!
View the Pinoy...Fil-Am news reports if available in your area.
If anything it is a change from whats available in the theaters.
When possible...we do this just so the young ones get exposure to
it. The other is go to school in the RP for summer, even if its just
for a vocational training like learning to fix TV's or even joining
non-profit organizations when they have RP projects. These things can
be mutually beneficial...its what you make of it.
[cut]
> > disapproving dad looks, shakes his head and tells me, "You should
> > have learned how to speak tagalog." Let me tell you, that really steamed
> > me.
[cut]
You are in a difficult situation when faced by this. A BIG problem here
is
the necessity of parents to EARN that money. Generally for the GOOD of
the
whole family. No time to teach the language when the focus is to put
food on the table and pay those bills. Most Filipinos in a foreign
country
DO need to exert a LOT more effort and time to earn than others.
Your response really depends on how open your dad is. But if you don't
explain he may never know why you have difficulty in learning the
language.
or maybe go to a higher authority...like your lola :o), or even your
MOM!!
Leon Kilat
Bgdomingo wrote:
> For one thing, I don't want my children to learn about our culture.
> Out culture
> or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and
> raised in
> Manila...is purely a backward culture. If they want to learn our
> native
> language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn
> it....why force
> them???
>
> ================================================================
> Bong D
>
> "The Deep South"
I'm sorry you feel that way. Could you elaborate on why you think
the Filipino culture is "backward"?
*kama...@kurokuro.net
Fred Amores wrote:
>
> I don't know what you mean by *backward culture*?? I was raised and born
Oo nga naman Bong....what do you mean about backward.... don't you
remember
that the *culture* you grew up with, made you what you are now.
You can walk, talk, sing, values, etc. what more do you want.
And how about your kids...excelling beyond compare I hope.
> Bgdomingo wrote:
>
> > For one thing, I don't want my children to learn about our culture. Out culture
> > or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and raised in
> > Manila...is purely a backward culture.
Bong....how about their lolo and lola? ... pinsan... your ate, kuya...
Some of them are still in that culture that you call backward.
How about skin color...surely, someday they'll figure out that they
are different and came from somewhere, what would be your answer?
Anyway, culture is beyond the scope of the Tagalog teaching question.
> > If they want to learn our native
> > language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn it....why force
> > them???
The question was "Why don't Filipino parents teach their children to
speak
Tagalog?"
Was there another comment mentioning forcing children to speak Tagalog?
That's what I get from taking a vacation :o<
If it's forcing....maybe its like forcing the child to drink milk from
the glass instead of the bottle when the time comes. These are growing
up issues that is under Parental Guidance. Purely descretionary on the
part of the parent, not necessarilly mandatory.
So if you don't teach...why?? I do, so it does not apply to me or
my better half. When kids have enough sense to decide for themselves,
then they can choose to learn, this parent will neither keep it from
them
nor force it.
...babalik....babalik.....at babalik ka rin.....
John J. Cristobal
On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Fred Amores wrote:
> I don't know what you mean by *backward culture*?? I was raised and born
> in the Philippines, but, I don't see backwardness or primitiveness of
> our Filipino culture compared to other countries including the U.S.A. I
> worked with different races and cultures. It seems to me they are unique
> to each other. Does it means, if you eat with your bare hands be
> considered a *backward culture*?
>
> Ka Freddie
By the way, is there a Kamayan restaurant here in Calif.?
Just wondering...
--John
Perseus
Rhett Valino Pascual wrote in message
<64o5rs$c81$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
>In article <64o3ul$o...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, Perseus <NOSPAM>
wrote:
>i think to be more correct, you need to say that most movies which you
>have reneted have sucked. This of course brings into question your
taste
>in films and the method through which you choose to rent films. Do you
>ask the rental company for good filipino films or do you rent by
looking
>at the box or do you rent by looking at the title alone? i believe
that
>quality pinoy films are present. it's just that you have to look for
>them.
Rhett, your first statement is correct. All, besides a very few, stunk.
I beg your pardon, but your conclusion as to my taste of movies has the
least to do with the shallowness of filipino movies. I don't make the
films, I only rent them (use to). And when I rent films, I take some
time to go through the titles and synopses searching for quality
products that all of us in the family can watch. And the best among the
lot really sucks ! I have to live with that, as if I had a choice to
bleed dry the best any more and ask for something better than the best
that I could find. I will agree with your term "quality pinoy films"
but that is not good enough. What "quality" are you referring to? I
hope you mean quality in the thread and content, and not just on the
technical aspects of the film. Haven't you ever noticed how the story
line of filipino movies follow a predictable thread -- meaning they have
the same/similar causes and effects, beginnings and endings, with
difference only in the where, and why, and who? Is there a need to list
down filipino movie categories?
>in the graduating class at berkeley, the majority of the pinoy-amer
>students felt regret that they don't speak tagalog or any dialect. the
>ones who can speak or understand show pride in doing so. I think you
need
>to talk to more 21-24 year olds who grew up here in the US instead of
>assuming what they are going to think or how they will react.
If they do regret not being able to, then why didn't they do something
in the first place. I know -- it's because the parents did not take the
time to teach them pilipino or some other dialect !! Rhett, do you
honestly believe that the answer is as simple as that? There are many
reasons for the regret; and it is not only because others can speak
while others can't. I have no quarrel with those who can and then show
pride for it. Those who can't should not feel that those who can speak
are far better than them, neither should the pride of latter diminish
the pride of the former. Or should I accept as fact based from your
premise, that the non-filipino-speaking decendant is less capable than
the filipino-speaking one?
>Look at what you wrote. if they are disconnected by language, is that
a
>problem? When you meet pinoys here in the us, do you speak in a
>particular dialect or do you always stick to english? do you feel a
sense
>of closeness when speaking filipino dialects? part of this obviously
is
>personal evaluation. however, i find that there is greater camaraderie
if
>one speaks or understands the language.
To be honest, generally no. I only switch to the vernacular when I
sense or perceive the other party to be uncomfortable with english due
to usage difficulties. Me and my friends communicate in english -- a
switch happens occasionally, not the other way round. Here's more that
may shock other people out there: We get that uncomfortable feeling
when we start using tagalog, and that when we get into it, it gets kinda
short-lived. Somebody always switches back to english and everybody
else follows the lead.
There is a difference though between the older and the younger set of
people that I know of. The older ones are more comfortable using the
dialects that the younger ones. I have observed family men and women
addressing their parents in the vernacular, while they switch back and
forth when talking to their spouses, and then using plain english when
addressing the children. Here is another observation I have made: an
older person addressing the child with tagalog, all beaming up,
expecting the child to respond or appreciate the recognition. However,
the child simply looks at the older person with a big question on his
face, before responding in english -- a seeming rebuff of the older
person's attempt to draw out the filipino from the child.
>but these characteristics are defining traits of what makes one
filipino.
>try this.. define for yourself what you consider makes you filipino.
>it's not that easy to write down.
That is where we have fall away from each other -- these children are no
longer filipinos. These children that I am dealing with are mostly
second generation children, and are american. The problem of making
sure that they know the language and to take pride in it, plus the
adoption filipino values may seem bothersome to a lot of us at this
time. But with the next generations, when we're all dead and gone, this
problem will not be like what it appears to be with us who think that we
have to perpetuate the culture in some way or another. "Being filipino"
should be viewed in a different light -- but first, they are americans,
with a filipino nationality. This concern will ultimately wane as the
generation line continues.
>Unless the person who grows up begins asking about his/her identity.
Of
>course, very few people ever reach that pinnacle of self-assessment.
>However, I would hope that given an opportunity, any pinoy-amer can
find
>himself easily because he knows the language and can interact with the
>filipino society at a deeper level.
Identity -- that sounds so negative as I read it. Let me me answer
you in this way -- Who are having all the problems from educational,
work, and other preferences in our society? I submit -- those who have
a strong perchance for "identity." Why can't they get out of the pit
fall these people have fallen into? Because they're pulled back by
"identity." Why is there too much divisiveness in our society? It's
because of "identity!" We seem to get all wrapped up in "identity" and
just see where it has lead us to, and other groups for that matter?
I feel so frustrated battling terms like "filipino-american,"
"native-american," "african-american," "jewish-american," and so on and
so forth. I have a belief that people who propagate these differences
between americans to be the current-day catalysts of the unsolveable
issue of race discrimination. Discrimination of yesterday was
translated in terms of slavery, colonialism, imperialism, and then all
other forms of control over a race or a people. Today's discrimination
is manifested in terms like "filipino-american," educational and job
preferences, quotas, and the insistence that the sins of the fathers are
sins of the sons.
How deep do WE expect others to interact with other filipinos? If
"deep" means recognition of separateness from the bigger populace, then
I pray my nephews and neices don't grow up that way. The race card is
still being played and I do not want them to be part of a practice or
behavior many of us, filipinos and other groups, consider to be
"cultural-bonding."
>>The color of the skin has nothing to with it. I'm one of those who
>>believe that the gap between the races will sooner or later close up.
>hope you're right. right now, it sure doesn't look like it.
Yeah, it sure doesn't look like it right now. And entertaining ideas
that seem to be good at the surface, makes that gap even wider. A 20-20
vision sometimes get distorted when we view society and events from
within, and not from without. And like I said, I'd rather we lead
people out of the trap, rather that entangle them more. Intelligent and
smart people are of short supply when "race" and "identity" are at
issue. I hope that a falling away from these chips will happen more and
more as we educate our children.
>i guess that is why the irish celebrate st. patrick's day, why we have
>chinatown, koreatown, and all other towns. why america has so many
>parades celebrating cultural diversity should be a mystery to us all if
we
>followed your reasoning.
Exactly my point -- On the surface, these manifest culture, heritage,
pride. That is great ! Nothing wrong with that ! Isn't america
supposed to be a melting pot of diverse races, heritages and cultures?
However, under the surface runs the feeling that an ethnic group is
still separate from the whole. The celebration of diverse practices
should break racial lines. Take Saint Patrick's for example -- it has
transcended race, and in my opinion, now a true american celebration.
The green and the clover is not only sported by the irish on that day.
Even the non-irish do. Even I do ! This assimilation will be more
difficult for us the older, and easier of the younger, UNLESS, we impede
them by our "good intentions."
>let me ask you a rather simplistic question. do you believe that your
>children have the capacity to reason? how far can you trust them with
>reason? can they differentiate between good and bad? how about
complex
>ideas of white lies? how about even more complex ideas of social
>obligation and democracy? have you taught them the fourth amendment
and
>what it means? my point is that they learn. Until they have reached
21
>years old, children need to be taught. to simply believe that they
will
>not need something because they are in a particular situation is wrong.
No they do not. There is an extent where we can trust a child to think
and decide, and that does not mean lack of parental guidance. And they
learn as they grow. I would go further to say that teaching and
advising by the elders go on forever, if requested for or when
warranted. But guiding and parenting does not mean deciding for the
child what he or she would turn out to be. I've seen parents who are on
that mode -- under the very same reason that it is a parental duty to
guide and teach. They miss the point entirely when they mold their
children into someone created in their minds, based on their own
experiences. And I think that is wrong. Guide the child, but again,
like I said, let us not clone them.
>This is the wrong message which first generation parents always assume.
>Learn this from someone who has seen what happens when students don't
>learn tagalog or a filipino dialect. they go to college, see the
filipno
>organizations, joine them because they want to learn their culture and
>then the students realize how much of the culture they lost or never
>learned. the resulting questions about identity are difficult to
answer
>because they have to ask and answer those questions on their own. they
>won't ask you, the parent, because you will brush them off (probably
>because you don't even know what makes you filipino. and if you think
this is
>easily answered, try giving me the answer in a logical essay.)
If at that point in time he finds out that he has missed a lot, then he
should do something about it and not look back and dwell on the idea
that his parents were remisce in sharing these to him during his early
years. I suppose you have done something about it when you found out
that you needed to. I assume you are referring to yourself above --
but then, who would have said that this is what you would have wanted
later on in life. While others tend towards your interests, others do
not. While others have problems with identity, others do not. I really
can't say much, but if I were in the same situation, I would have been
swept myself to search for an identity, but I hope that by shielding the
children at their formative years from differences, they would avoid the
experience of a crisis in identity in their adult life.
>to filipino immigrants, the question of identity with respect to being
>filipino is easily dismissed. but just try defining it to your
children
>and let them ask you questions and you will see that it is harder to
>define than you think.
It will be difficult for the children. It won't be for us -- we have a
mind-set. They do not. I'd rather not pass along my questions and
difficulties in tryting to cope to the children who should not
experience the trauma of "conscious assimilation" into the society they
are growing up into.
Rhett Valino Pascual
>story lines, same styles.\
i think to be more correct, you need to say that most movies which you
have reneted have sucked. This of course brings into question your taste
in films and the method through which you choose to rent films. Do you
ask the rental company for good filipino films or do you rent by looking
at the box or do you rent by looking at the title alone? i believe that
quality pinoy films are present. it's just that you have to look for
them.
as for attitutde, you could try to explain to them why the videos are so
"stupid". Unless of course, you don't know anything about pinoy culture.
But that is unrealistic because you found them entertaining at one time.
Thus, you must have something in common with pinoys in the phil.
>
>>Because??? Someday I hope those kids you have wont regret not having
>>learned pilipino. If you are comfortable that they won't then that's
>>your call as a parent.
>
>I assure you, they won't. Of course there are some out there who feel
>cheated by not learning the language. But, how many do you think really
>care that much ? Those who never learned it do not feel incapacitated
in the graduating class at berkeley, the majority of the pinoy-amer
students felt regret that they don't speak tagalog or any dialect. the
ones who can speak or understand show pride in doing so. I think you need
to talk to more 21-24 year olds who grew up here in the US instead of
assuming what they are going to think or how they will react.
>at all I would think. And if they're disconnected from philippine
>culture - via language (as some others tend to think so), is that going
>to be a problem?
Look at what you wrote. if they are disconnected by language, is that a
problem? When you meet pinoys here in the us, do you speak in a
particular dialect or do you always stick to english? do you feel a sense
of closeness when speaking filipino dialects? part of this obviously is
personal evaluation. however, i find that there is greater camaraderie if
one speaks or understands the language.
>Sure there are good ones, but filipino values are not the mother of good
>values. And niether does filipino culture have a monopoly of good
>values. In fact, our so-called good values are shrouded and trailed by
but these characteristics are defining traits of what makes one filipino.
try this.. define for yourself what you consider makes you filipino.
it's not that easy to write down.
>I'm no seer, but I simply leave that up for the future to take care of.
>Between filipino and another foreingn language like french or spanish,
>the latter is preferrable. The kids will do better in the future.
>What has the language done to put someone at an advantage over another ?
>In my place of work, we add more points to someone who could speak
>spanish than filipino. Filipinos understand english enough anyway.
Unless the person who grows up begins asking about his/her identity. Of
course, very few people ever reach that pinnacle of self-assessment.
However, I would hope that given an opportunity, any pinoy-amer can find
himself easily because he knows the language and can interact with the
filipino society at a deeper level.
>The color of the skin has nothing to with it. I'm one of those who
>believe that the gap between the races will sooner or later close up.
hope you're right. right now, it sure doesn't look like it.
>sense of belongness to some culture besides the culture they are now
>growing up to. That's plain perpetuation of segregation that breeds
>ideas of racism and divisiveness. I say, let them be assimilated true
>and true, and not further confuse them.
i guess that is why the irish celebrate st. patrick's day, why we have
chinatown, koreatown, and all other towns. why america has so many
parades celebrating cultural diversity should be a mystery to us all if we
followed your reasoning.
>is where I grew up. The children here are different -- they're growing
>up in America, and they can make the choice of learning the language
>later on if they choose to.
let me ask you a rather simplistic question. do you believe that your
children have the capacity to reason? how far can you trust them with
reason? can they differentiate between good and bad? how about complex
ideas of white lies? how about even more complex ideas of social
obligation and democracy? have you taught them the fourth amendment and
what it means? my point is that they learn. Until they have reached 21
years old, children need to be taught. to simply believe that they will
not need something because they are in a particular situation is wrong.
>
>Parents should not be blamed if their children wonders one day why they
>never learned filipino. It's not the end of the world. Parents should
>rather rejoice that their children are adopting better, and being
>assimilated into a society where divides are being gapped. WE should be
This is the wrong message which first generation parents always assume.
Learn this from someone who has seen what happens when students don't
learn tagalog or a filipino dialect. they go to college, see the filipno
organizations, joine them because they want to learn their culture and
then the students realize how much of the culture they lost or never
learned. the resulting questions about identity are difficult to answer
because they have to ask and answer those questions on their own. they
won't ask you, the parent, because you will brush them off (probably
because
you don't even know what makes you filipino. and if you think this is
easily answered, try giving me the answer in a logical essay.)
to filipino immigrants, the question of identity with respect to being
filipino is easily dismissed. but just try defining it to your children
and let them ask you questions and you will see that it is harder to
define than you think.
REtong
--
*******************************************************************
http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/ginza/4890/index.html
Spooky Spook
The probable advantages of learning tagalog are;
- soften your tongue, which makes learning other language far easier,
such as spanish, french etc...
- it will be easier to pick spanish language later
- you can converse with a filipino speaking person and discuss very
private mater without the american guy figuring out what the heck are
you talking.
On 8 Nov 1997 09:08:09 GMT, Timothy Joseph Harvey
<r...@user2.teleport.com> wrote:
#Agreed. This sort of post has been a staple here since day one. It's
#hard for Fil-Ams to discover their heritage without understanding the
#language.
#
#It's interesting to note what has happened to the decendents of the many
#European immigrants - you see them express there "I'm just an individual
#like everyone else" point of view here all the time. That is one of the
#unfortunate side-effects of the American "melting pot" - replacement of
#one's cultural heritage with Mickey Mouse thinking and cultural arrogance
#(why should I be interested in any other culture when mine is the best -
#everyone wants to be American anyway).
#
#To MANONG2. In our house, our daughter will grow to know Bisaya as well
#as English. Both are her heritage, and as her parents, we'll not deny
#her what should be a source of pride. . . just to satisfy American demands
#for cultural sameness.
#
#Thanks for an excellent post.
#
#Tim
#
#
#MarcL <m...@gsb.curtin.edu.au> wrote:
#: Arguably, one of the best posts here in SCF in years.
#
#: MAN...@webtv.net wrote:
#
#: > So, please parents of Filipino children here in the United States I urge
#: > you to teach your children our native language because if you do not
#: > that part of our Philippine culture will not be passed on down and that
#: > would be such a shame. (Sayang!!!)
#: >
#
#--
#Tim Harvey rightWrite, Incorporated r...@teleport.COM (503) 977-3627
bRAM
Fred Amores <amo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<346F99...@ix.netcom.com>...
: I don't know what you mean by *backward culture*??
------------------
Mahilig kasing lumingon ng "lumingon sa sa pinangalingan"!
--
"Insanity is doing things over and over again,
expecting a different result."
---Rita Mae Brown
isart
how true spooky. i was just wondering about how to keep promoting or
living the philippine culture, being so far away from the philippines!
often, it's tempting to have myself mistaken for some other dark-haired
mediterranean, hispanic or asian group. but, variety is the spice of
life and learning pilipino is just part of the stew of languages.
whether there is any benefit from speaking it here where it isn't
necessary for work or school or most business, who can say? if you like
the taste and flavour of pilipino and the people who speak it, learn it.
that's all we did with the english-american language.
is
rj...@usa.net (Spooky Spook) writes: > On 8 Nov 1997 04:44:32 GMT, elbi...@aol.com (ELBIS IPIS) wrote:
>
> #Manong2 wrote:
> #
> #>What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
> #>cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
> #>Pilipino or Tagalog?
> #
> #Every American you meet is either a Filipino-American, Italian-American,
> # Irish-American, Chinese-American, German-American, etc., etc., etc.
> #
> #Now, does EVERY Italian-American speak Italian? Does EVERY Chinese-American
> # speak Chinese? Etc., etc. Of course not. Therefore, in the same way, you
> # are not going to find every Filipino-American able to speak tagalog. By the
> # same token, of course there ARE also those Filipino-Americans who DO know how
> # to speak Tagalog. There ARE those Italian-Americans who DO know how to speak
> # Italian. Etc., etc. But, come on......you can't expect EVERY
> # Filipino-American or EVERY _______-American to be able to speak their parents
> # and grand-parents language.
> #
>
> Some example that can probably explain the whole thing.
>
> A filipino-chinese couple from Manila, both speak fluent tagalog,
> fukienese and mandarin, with their fellow filippino-chinese friends,
> they speak multi-lingual, a conversation sometimes can be in fukien
> mix with mandarin and suddenly converse in pure tagalog, then switch
> back and forth between different language.
>
> Now they have a son and a daughter, what happen at their home was,
> both husband and wife speaks multi-lingual, but with their kids, they
> emphasize more on mandarin because (1) they are in Taiwan and people
> here speaks mandarin, (2) most of the TV program seen by the kids is
> in mandarin, (3) other friends who are non filipino-chinese drop by
> and speak mandarin with the kids, the children ends up speaking fluent
> mandarin, followed by fukien since its almost related. Whereas the
> kids can understand a word or 2 of tagalog.
>
> In short they are not expose to a fluent tagalog conversation and it
> is seldomly use (except with their parents and a few real close
> friends like us).
>
> This scenario is the same as anywhere else. An environment that does
> not call for more tagalog speaking will naturally makes tagalog a poor
> choice of language to learn or for communication. So you cannot expect
> a filipino or part filipino parents to teach the tagalog to their
> kids. Sometimes they don't need them.
>
> Just my opinion.
Fred Amores
Tila walang Kamayan Restaurant dito sa Bay Area. "Backward culture"
kasi kapag tayo'y magkamayan dito sa Istate.(-:)
Apo Predo
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo
And "John J. Cristobal" <udu0...@email.sjsu.edu> said 'Let there be words!' and there were plenty:
>By the way, is there a Kamayan restaurant here in Calif.?
>
>Just wondering...
And if not, are there any enterprising (rich) pinoys on the newsgroup
who would like to open one? I'd go. I'm sure John J. Cristobal would
go. Maybe we should have another SCF gathering at some restaurant,
even if it isn't kamayan, and eat with our hands.
-joanna
not that I've been to any of the past SCF gatherings, but still...
--
]:o_ o/
|O = joanna l. salgado __ computer greek (delta gamma) ___|--
|_o= shower philosopher call...@rescomp.stanford.edu \
@ `
MarcL
Bgdomingo wrote:
>
> >BTW, no offense taken. You probably represent a majority of Filipino
> >parents in the US.
> >There's nothing wrong with Filipino-Americans who cannot speak
> >Pilipino. But children will not find it difficult to learn to speak
> >more than one language.
> >
> >What I'm trying to say is: if Filipino-Americans learn their parent's
> >language, they will be as thoroughly familiar with the Filipino culture
> >just as well as the mainstream American culture.
> >
> >
> or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and raised in
> language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn it....why force
> them???
>
honest assesment
of the pros and cons of learning tagalog. Even as a father you can't
make that
decision for them.
As to your claim that our culture or traditions is backward, hhhmmm ...
I hope
your mind is not lead poisoned from the pollution in Manila.
AC21209
Filipinos have a backwards culture?
Because we can eat with our hands???
What about those Americans (whites) that I know who try to eat with their hands
and the rice and stuff gets scooped into their palms and they make a whole
mess of themselves trying to feed it into their mouths???
That's not backwards????
Hmmm, maybe it could be a "gene" thing? Paul?
*kama...@kurokuro.net
bRAM wrote:
> Mahilig kasing lumingon ng "lumingon sa sa pinangalingan"!
Kung nagpapatawa ka ... ok lang tatawa ako pero kung seryoso ka
baka pwede mong ipaliwanag. May narinig na kasi ako na malapit
sa sinabi mo....na ganito "nasa Amerika na hindi pa mabitiwan ang
ugaling Pilipino"
May masama at may mabuti na ugali...
... ako ay nagtatanong lang.
*kama...@kurokuro.net
Perseus wrote:
*kamagong*@kurokuro.net wrote in message:
P> On the Tagalog movies, my nephews and nieces comments inlcude among
P> others: Too Long !! Tedious !! Dumb !!
*k>>Then there is attitude....if you rent movies for entertainment,
well
*k>>if one is used to seeing a Hollywood flavor, Tagalog movies
*k>>may be as you describe. It is different.
P> I disagree. I for one find those movies exactly like what those
kids
P> say they are -- dumb !!
If you felt that way in the first place, why did you rent it?
You had an expectation but somehow it did not turn out quite
the way you expected.
P> I always though otherwise, but again, that was
P> because I've been exposed to these kinds of films from a young age.
So you know what to expect but your kids don’t. So isn’t some hands-on
tutorial (explanation)in order….I know, I know you don’t have time.
You are not a teacher, I understand. But they are kids, learning
on their own may not do it. How will they make biko or sapin-sapin
if you don't show them how. Paano naman malalasap iyong halu-halo ni
Aling Maring kung hindi mo sasabihin na baka kailangan ng asukal
at gatas. Na masarap ang pritong baboy sa suka at bawang.
That there is also such a thing as buko pie.
P> these kids who view these films without preconception, their
judgement
P> is purely an honest reaction.
Their preconception is what they are used to (hollywood)…just like not
knowing
bagoong, dilis, dinuguan, etc.. There isn’t too many people that would
eat
foreign food that looks different without asking or without some sort
of
explanation. Ube ice cream anyone?
P> Now, why do I agree with them? That is
P> because that's how I see them now -- after a long period of not
watching
P> filipino movies, and then deciding to watch some, I did find them
P> dragging, too long, shallow, and lacking and stupid -- same plots,
same
P> story lines, same styles.
Guess what, the audience may not be meant to be foreigners (by
foreigners, I
mean those that don’t know a filipino joke when they hear one or a
filipino
plot when they see one).
After a long period, one can even forget who were their former
classmates.
P> And so, it's not attitude -- they're just being honest. Pilipino
films
P> suck !!
Honesty is good. Maybe you just need to choose your films.
My American born kids SELECT their Pilipino movies ON THEIR OWN.
They get a kick out of Shake Rattle and Roll. But I attribute the
explanation to my better half who is a good teacher.
*k>>It's hard for anyone to learn if there is no "CAN DO" attitude.
P> I really don't think that is the problem. Children can
discriminate,
P> and they know when a movie they're watching sucks.
I was talking about trying to learn the language by watching movies.
If they want something else besides this, well….. you have the answer!!
I can still picture in my mind an American born trying to learn the
language by reading komiks while riding the train. It's on her own
no forcing...just the shear interest to learn is the driving factor.
I am amused when I see my better half watching Japanese soaps and
understanding it. It's getting to be so regular that I miss my own
shows. I think even my youngest now knows Japanese.
[cut]
P> at all I would think. And if they're disconnected from philippine
P> culture - via language (as some others tend to think so), is that
going
P> to be a problem?
Time will tell. Again it's your call as a parent. YOU will have to live
the results....
[cut]
P> the undesirable values, if you only think about it. Nah, I lurk and
P> post to SFC only because I'm different from the kids who were either
P> born here, or who have migrated as babes and have grown here. I
have
P> more of the filipino left in me than they will ever have.
And what makes you think you have more of a filipino in you (not a
flame).
What do you believe are these filipino traits? Pare, hindi kita
inaasar.
What is in you that makes you different from those that have grown
here.
You may have the answer in you after all.
[cut]
*k>>Hmmm, you are not another one of those fortune tellers, are you??
P> I'm no seer, but I simply leave that up for the future to take care
of.
P> Between filipino and another foreingn language like french or
spanish,
P> the latter is preferrable. The kids will do better in the future.
P> What has the language done to put someone at an advantage over
another ?
P> In my place of work, we add more points to someone who could speak
P> spanish than filipino. Filipinos understand english enough anyway.
If it's material money we are talking about, then it is different.
I sure wish someday though, that the RP would mandate native
speakers to do business in the RP.
Other countries do it, why not the RP?
In France a billboard post says:
"No job for you if you don't speak the language"
ANYBODY LISTENING????
One thing though, if a lot more people DO NOT VALUE the language
whatever it is, it WILL BE LOST. Just like ATT bilingual operators,
if there is no need for them why employ them?
P> The color of the skin has nothing to with it. I'm one of those who
The point was, no matter what you say, you will be faced with reality.
Your heritage and your kids are filipino. Language is part of this
heritage.
If you try to forget it, rest assured SOMEBODY ELSE WILL remind you.
Unfortunately, the human race has not progressed enough to forgo the
last
prejudice (appearance). That's reality, don't kid yourself.
P> The kids are comfortable enough as
P> they are right now for us to screw them up by making them feel some
P> sense of belongness to some culture besides the culture they are now
P> growing up to.
Now that's a BIG statement. This is subjective. I don't believe that
having a sense of belongingness to their heritage will screw them up.
P> That's plain perpetuation of segregation that breeds
P> ideas of racism and divisiveness. I say, let them be assimilated
true
P> and true, and not further confuse them.
OTOH, there will be occassions where one will try to belong but there
will
be an obvious difference. There will be things beyond anybody's
control.
Besides how will NATIONS understand each other if one does not
understand
the other culture?
P> As for the lottery, just get those quick picks. And by the way, I
hope
P> you don't let your kids see you getting to addicted to it. That's
not a
P> good value to pass on to them.
Actually, my lottery purchases are probably $5 per year. That's how
addicted
I am to it. But if you have a sure win....heyyyy why not go for it.
I thought Perseus had a certain mystique to it.
If I win I promise to invest in the RP!!
John J. Cristobal
On 19 Nov 1997, TatieA wrote:
> Nope, I will not surrender, I have grand plans for my children! I will
> send them back in the Philippines to study when they reach college. For
> sure they will be forced to learn to speak Pilipino back there and that
> will make me feel better.
NO RETREAT, NO SURRENDER!! (Remember that movie, Mang Tatie?)
I suppose it was quite the opposite for me and my siblings. When I
was around seven, my father already had designs on bringing us, the
whole family here, in the US. However, he changed his mind and rather
decided that we grew up there, possibly so that we not only knew the
language but also be immersed in the culture as well. I'm sure as
heck certain that I won't be as fluent now had he went ahead with
what he had in mind before.
NO RETURN, NO EXCHANGE!! :)
John J. Cristobal
On 17 Nov 1997, Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo wrote:
> And if not, are there any enterprising (rich) pinoys on the newsgroup
> who would like to open one? I'd go. I'm sure John J. Cristobal would
> go. Maybe we should have another SCF gathering at some restaurant,
> even if it isn't kamayan, and eat with our hands.
>
> -joanna
> not that I've been to any of the past SCF gatherings, but still...
That would be a novel idea--perhaps we can encourage some affluent
venture capitalists (it's Silicon Valley, after all) and sell them
on the concept. The name itself, "Kamayan," has often elicited some
chuckles from me. I've always wondered if somebody, someday might
tool with the notion and extend it to that of a "Paahan." Now, talk
about raising the bar in avant-garde dining! It'll truly be a unique
"experience." Couple that with unmatched guest service, where the
waiters and waitresses literally "put their best feet forward."
Though, I honestly doubt if it'll catch on :)
TatieA
On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 18:34:27 -0800, MAN...@webtv.net wrote:
>What is wrong with Filipino parents in America? Why is it that they
>cannot teach their children how to speak our country's national language
>Pilipino or Tagalog? Mexican children can speak Spanish fluently,
One of the most popular language in the world is Spanish. If I'm not mistaken
Spanish is the third largest language spoken in the world. It is also one of
the languages used in the United Nations. During my college years in the
Philippines Spanish subjects are included in the curriculum and required to
obtain a degree. If you're the Spanish speaking person, aren't you proud of
it?
I think the root cause of this problem is not the parents of Filipino children
here in America but the system in the Philippines. As you can see,most of our
leaders are eloquent and at ease in English, especially when these people are
being interviewed by the media. This kind of scenario are broadcasted in TVs
and radios, printed in leading newspapers and magazines. In school, English is
an integral part of information and it used as medium of instruction. In
entertainment, TV hosts and anchors use English language most of the time
during their shows. Students use textbbooks written in English. Look at the
street signs,TV commercials, jingles and posters - all of these are also
dominated by English Language. Even in the workplace the English language is
very important ! Not to mention the tomadors(drunkards) in the street corners
- they will talk to you in English when they're already drunk!
Evidently, cases like these were experienced and witnessed by everybody
including children in their everyday lives.
We've been in the US for almost four years and we converse with our children in
pure Pilipino (tagalog) until now, I never talked in English to them, but
believe me,we now have a big gap in communication which sometimes makes me
mad. I have to repeat what I said two or three times before they can
understand and they answered back in English. It's unbelievable that just for
a short period of time they can't speak Pilipino anymore.
This led me to conclude that some Filipino parents here in the US cannot be
entirely blamed for it.
TatieA
Tansong Isda
Bgdomingo wrote:
> For one thing, I don't want my children to learn about our culture. Out culture
> or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and raised in
> Manila...is purely a backward culture. If they want to learn our native
> language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn it....why force
> them???
>
> ================================================================
> Bong D
>
> "The Deep South"
uhmmmm... doesn't seem to be backwards from my point of view. Just different,
nothing to be ashamed of.
Perseus
TatieA wrote in message <19971119002...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
So, is that it? To make you feel better? I've thought about the same --
get them kids back and study there for a while -- but again, why feel
terrible or guilty when they don't speak the language?
*caissa*
On 21 Nov 1997, Rhett Valino Pascual wrote:
> Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo <call...@rescomp.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> >go. Maybe we should have another SCF gathering at some restaurant,
> >even if it isn't kamayan, and eat with our hands.
> >-joanna
> >not that I've been to any of the past SCF gatherings, but still...
>
> Tikki-Tikki:
>
> Would you want to host the next gathering? The job is really reasonable.
> You set the date and the time of the gathering. You make a reservation
> for so many people. And that's about it since it's not a picnic. How
> about it? We haven't had our Fall Gathering and it's already December.
> We can maybe set this thing for January?
>
> Well, it's up to you. send me e-mail as to what you decided.
>
> Everyone Else: ARe you guys interested in going or is everyone pretty
> busy. Reply if you are interested.
Work is starting to wind down a bit so I probably have some ample time
during our usual December shutdowns. BTW, we got to checked out Tito Rey's
a few weeks ago when J. Curammeng (an old time SCFer from New Jersey) was
in town recently. I thought the food was really excellent -- especially
their pansit dish which was really good. They also had a jazz singer
entertaining the cocktail lounge next door that night and she seemed
pretty good; I actually listened in to some of her bossa-nova renditions.
Not bad I must say.
OK, so do I sound like I'm suggesting a Tito Rey get together? I guess I
do. :-)
ed
http://www.wenet.net/~caissa - digital gallery
http://www.wenet.net/~caissa/scfjpgs/picnic97 - SCF Picnic pictures
Manny Valencia
Top 3 Reasons:
1. They're too busy working on 2 jobs. Many Filipinos makes little money
even if they work a lot.
2. Everytime they talk to you in Pilipino, you say, "Ehhh???". And
they're tired of explaining it to you again.
3. When they ask you to say, "Ano'ng pangalan mo?", you sound, "Eno'ng
pengelen mo". They laugh hard because it reminds them of Keleng in
Liwayway magazine. They get stomach ache for laughing and been farting
the whole day for that.
- Manny
> Learning to speak Tagalog doesn't mean you'll have an accent. I
> arrived in America at a very young age, I speak both English and
> Tagalog with no accents. Because of my Tagalog background, I was
> easily able to learn Spanish and speak it with no accent as well.
>
Rhett Valino Pascual
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo <call...@rescomp.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>go. Maybe we should have another SCF gathering at some restaurant,
>even if it isn't kamayan, and eat with our hands.
>-joanna
>not that I've been to any of the past SCF gatherings, but still...
Tikki-Tikki:
Would you want to host the next gathering? The job is really reasonable.
You set the date and the time of the gathering. You make a reservation
for so many people. And that's about it since it's not a picnic. How
about it? We haven't had our Fall Gathering and it's already December.
We can maybe set this thing for January?
Well, it's up to you. send me e-mail as to what you decided.
Everyone Else: ARe you guys interested in going or is everyone pretty
busy. Reply if you are interested.
REtongSCFCalendarBoy
--
*******************************************************************
http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/ginza/4890/index.html
Manny Valencia
Eric J. Liwanag wrote:
> I can't form sentences in tagalog or understand much, either. As far
> as
> I can remember, my parents didn't try to teach me any. I think I may
> have
> created some sort of mental block to foreign languages as a child. I
> took
> french in HS and spanish in college and never got the hang of either.
> As
> a child, I was perfectly content with blocking out all speech going on
>
> around me that wasn't english. I regret it now. I'd like to be able to
>
> understand and speak tagalog well.
I couldn't blame your parents. In my opinion, learning Tagalog is a
second priority because I'd rather have my kids be able to concentrate
more on their studies. That mental block is just fine, you can only do
one thing at a time. You could never do them all.
> The teasing by adults to children doesn't help kids learn. We had this
>
> book in tagalog and me and my sister were reading from it to our
> parents
> one time. (one of those long car ride vacations from what I remember).
> We
> would read and ask for translations and they would laugh and make fun.
>
> Brutal. I may not have made much of an effort to learn back then, but
> they
> didn't make much of an effort to teach.
I suppose I do the same with my kids, although I explain to them that it
is not a serious flaw. Nobody is perfect. Just try your best. We laugh
because to ourselves it sounds funny, but I tell them, ignore me and try
your best.
> A few months back, I was over at my parents house for dinner. We had
> relatives over and were having dinner. They were speaking tagalog, I
> was
> trying, not quite successfully, to follow along. In one of the
> conversation lulls, my dad turns to me and asks if I know what they're
>
> talking about. I tell him the truth. No. He gives me one of those
> disapproving dad looks, shakes his head and tells me, "You should
> have learned how to speak tagalog." Let me tell you, that really
> steamed
> me. Good thing something that I did learn was respect for elders
> because I
> wanted to tell him off because he didn't even attempt to teach me
> before.
> Why should he expect me to know now?
Well, no one is perfect. Tell your dad that you really wanted to speak
the language though you would rather concentrate in your studies that
will land you a better future than learning Tagalog. In terms of
learning Tagalog, since you could already hear them and kind of
understand them, I have proven that if you have a 3-month vacation in
the Philippines and ask someone to teach you Tagalog, you will come back
here talking in fluent Tagalog. Trust me, I would bet you with my
neighbors house.
- Manny
>
>
> -eric
> ___________________________
> Eric J. Liwanag
> er...@shore.net
> http://www.shore.net/~ericl
John J. Cristobal
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Jun Baisas wrote:
> Wow. I take an unscheduled vacation and how much things have changed.
>
> First of all, thank you to Aling MariaClara for taking over as sentry.
> As it is, I won't be able to hang around SCF for much longer now, much
> less lurk and post.
[kaltas]
Ka Jun!! Ano ba't saan ka nagsuot?? Ikaw, pabakasyon-bakasyon ka na lang
diyan, ni walang kang pahintulot sa amin ni Aling Maring. O mawawalan
ka ba ng ISP? Tila marami naman diyan sa Toronto, 'di ba?
*kama...@kurokuro.net
Jun Baisas wrote:
[cut]
> As it is, I won't be able to hang around SCF for much longer now, much
> less lurk and post.
Jun B. busy....well Jun sana ay magtagumpay ka sa ano mang kailangan
mong asikasuhin. Pabisita-bisita ka paminsan-minsan pare.
Live long and prosper Number 1, may you someday command your own
starship and help search for Genesis outside the SCF sector.
isang kaibigan :-)
Jun Baisas
> To some extent, I would have to call that righteous anger. Your dad
> possibly was never aware of his shortcomings, and simply threw the blame
> on you. Presumptions and misguided intentions (no matter how good they
> may be) sometimes become a part of the picture. Though, your parents
> didn't totally fail in their pedagogy, as you do know well enough to
> respect your elders as you say. Just brush off that chip on your shoulder,
> and let that be. It's not too late to learn any foreign language (let
> alone Tagalog, in your case); it just takes a sprinkling of earnest and
> perseverance. Who knows? Maybe you'll be eloquent enough someday to
> visit the PI and haggle at the Divisoria Flea Market :)
Wow. I take an unscheduled vacation and how much things have changed.
First of all, thank you to Aling MariaClara for taking over as sentry.
As it is, I won't be able to hang around SCF for much longer now, much
less lurk and post.
Secondly, I agree with MC that he should have at least respectfully told
his Dad off regarding the "not learning Tagalog" bit. If indeed Eric
made the effort, and his parents (while not meaning to) denigrated his
attempts to the point where he decided that learning Tagalog was not
worth the bother, then more of the blame will be on his folks -- who are
there to teach and guide him. Secondly, we really should give our
parents more credit about treating us like adults (esp. if you are
already an adult and act maturely). I get along with my Dad quite well,
and while we never argued, we did have friendly (but pointed)
discussions on many topics. I was never afraid to RESPECTFULLY express
my opinions to my Dad, who took it graciously and discussed things with
me reasonably, according me the respect I deserved. Do realize however,
that there will come a point when one will have to back off, and that we
should also respect our folks enough to leave an issue alone if they
feel too strongly about it, for it might only get ugly if we press on.
However, Eric, Ka Juan is right. If you really want to learn Tagalog,
it is never too late. It may take longer as you get older, but it is
possible. If you do decide to go on, I wish you good luck on your
exploration of the Filipino language and culture.
See ya all later!
------------------------
Jun B.
bai...@interlog.com
TatieA
Perseus wrote:
<<So, is that it? To make you feel better? I've thought about the same --
get them kids back and study there for a while -- but again, why feel
terrible or guilty when they don't speak the language?>>
Mr.Perseus, we are on very different perspectives in terms of being Filipino.
We came here in America to have better opportunities and not to become
Americans. We talked to our kids and asked them if they want to be Americans
and they replied with the big "NO" . So, to answer your question above, yes,
that's it!
I am just wondering, if the Filipino language is popular and being used by the
(white) Europeans,would you set it aside and still think it's okay not to try
to learn it? I don't think so.....
lemonhead
TatieA wrote:
>
> Mr.Perseus, we are on very different perspectives in terms of being Filipino.
> We came here in America to have better opportunities and not to become
> Americans. We talked to our kids and asked them if they want to be Americans
> and they replied with the big "NO" . So, to answer your question above, yes,
> that's it!
so if a big war breaks out and you will be asked to contribute to the
war effort directly or indirectly you will not help at all because your
loyalty is to the philippines and not to the united states of america, i
suppose. you commie bastage, you have no right to be a resident of this
great country. go back to the philippines and take your poor brainwashed
kids with you.
Perseus
TatieA wrote in message <19971122182...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>Perseus wrote:
><<So, is that it? To make you feel better? I've thought about the same --
>get them kids back and study there for a while -- but again, why feel
>terrible or guilty when they don't speak the language?>>
>
Filipino.
>We came here in America to have better opportunities and not to become
>Americans. We talked to our kids and asked them if they want to be
Americans
>and they replied with the big "NO" . So, to answer your question above,
yes,
>that's it!
I see that we do differ -- I and my kin have given up our filipino
citizenship (save for one sister who's still working on it), and we are not
only for better opportunities as it is. That's mute as it were -- it's
part of being an american. I do hope you reconsider your idea of being
here, and in case you have adopted american citizenship, then you're not
being true to yourself. I hope you've not given up your immigrant status as
yet, with that kind of perspective. Anyway, if you wish to entertain guilt
as a parent, then feel free to do so -- it's your life, not mine. And if
your kids have such expectations from you, then feel obligated. And if they
ever came up with that idea, I can only assume that you had something to do
with it. I am glad that not all americans with a filipino nationality feel
like you do. They're quite content, and just like me, believe that the kids
should be allowed to grow up without scrupples about his nationality, and
allow them to blend in with the rest in the easiest way possible, without
parents introducing ideas that could possibly make them insecure about
themselves, and feel at a disadvantage starting off life with an idea that
they're always be on the defensive. You kids I suppose are young not to
know why they choose not to be americans. But just in case they on a
majority age to make that decision, then, I do not see any reason why they
should still be here in the united states.
>I am just wondering, if the Filipino language is popular and being used by
the
>(white) Europeans,would you set it aside and still think it's okay not to
try
>to learn it? I don't think so.....
If the case were so, then I would think otherwise. Unfortunately, it is
not. So, there's no point in assuming on that route, is there?
Perseus
lemonhead wrote in message <657as7$8...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>TatieA wrote:
>>
>> Mr.Perseus, we are on very different perspectives in terms of being
Filipino.
>> We came here in America to have better opportunities and not to become
>> Americans. We talked to our kids and asked them if they want to be
Americans
>> and they replied with the big "NO" . So, to answer your question above,
yes,
>> that's it!
>
>war effort directly or indirectly you will not help at all because your
>loyalty is to the philippines and not to the united states of america, i
>suppose. you commie bastage, you have no right to be a resident of this
>great country. go back to the philippines and take your poor brainwashed
>kids with you.
I haven't asked TatieA to go that far, because I have given him/her the
benefit of the doubt. I do not even know if he/she is american. If that
were so, he/she better give the citizenship up and pack up and go home to
the philippines. As afor his/her children, if they were minors, they might
still change their mind. But I hope they don't get brain-washed to think
that they can leech all their lives. This country is overflowing with
leeches -- and I hope TatieA is not one of them, and that her/his kids
don't turn out to be major.
merlito
Bgdomingo wrote:
> >BTW, no offense taken. You probably represent a majority of Filipino
> >parents in the US.
> >There's nothing wrong with Filipino-Americans who cannot speak
> >Pilipino. But children will not find it difficult to learn to speak
> >more than one language.
> >
> >What I'm trying to say is: if Filipino-Americans learn their parent's
> >language, they will be as thoroughly familiar with the Filipino culture
> >just as well as the mainstream American culture.
> >
> >
> For one thing, I don't want my children to learn about our culture. Out culture
> or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and raised in
> Manila...is purely a backward culture. If they want to learn our native
> language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn it....why force
> them???
>
> ================================================================
> Bong D
>
> "The Deep South"
Isa ka pang MORON !
Edukasyon Pare KO ! EDUKASYON!
Palibhasa kaya ka lamang natutong umingles ay pinagpraktisan mo lamang
ang mga anak mo, eh hindi tuloy silang natutong tumagalog sa Amerika!
NO OFFENSE
CRESPO
merlito
Bgdomingo wrote:
> Why would I teach my children our National Language??? They were born here in
> America...then might as well let speak American language. Why make things
> hard for them??? There is no use for them to learn the parents language.
>
> That's my opinion. No offense.
>
> ================================================================
> Bong D
>
> "The Deep South"
MORON!
Hindi mo alam ang kaimportantehan nang edukasyon !
Victor Medrano
John J. Cristobal <udu0...@email.sjsu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.95.971118...@athens.sjsu.edu>...
| On 17 Nov 1997, Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri
pembo wrote:
|
| > And if not, are there any enterprising (rich) pinoys on the newsgroup
| > who would like to open one? I'd go. I'm sure John J. Cristobal would
| > go. Maybe we should have another SCF gathering at some restaurant,
| > even if it isn't kamayan, and eat with our hands.
| >
| > -joanna
| > not that I've been to any of the past SCF gatherings, but still...
|
| That would be a novel idea--perhaps we can encourage some affluent
| venture capitalists (it's Silicon Valley, after all) and sell them
| on the concept. The name itself, "Kamayan," has often elicited some
| chuckles from me. I've always wondered if somebody, someday might
| tool with the notion and extend it to that of a "Paahan." Now, talk
| about raising the bar in avant-garde dining! It'll truly be a unique
| "experience." Couple that with unmatched guest service, where the
| waiters and waitresses literally "put their best feet forward."
|
| Though, I honestly doubt if it'll catch on :)
|
| --John
|
You guys should seriously try Ethiopian food. It sounds rather
adventurous, but one uses hands for that too, so it's probably similar to
"Kamayan," which I've only tried once before. Ethiopian food is fantastic.
One uses a piece of floppy bread, for which there is a special exotic term
that slips my mind, to scoop the diced meat and vegetables. I've never
heard of "Paahan" though, except maybe for making wine...
Vic
--------
<http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/9798/>
"Life in plastic;
it's fantastic..."
--Barbie Girl, AQUA
*kama...@kurokuro.net
hey posters.....ATTENTION!!
Lets not connect learning a second language with citizenship or being
more or
less a citizen of any country.
It's a ridiculous and foolish connection.
Knowing or teaching or accepting or speaking a second language DOES NOT
mean being
less of a citizen.
If you ran out of valid arguements, let it be. No need to resort to
questioning
the loyalty of a poster in a Filipino NG.
.....American .....get it out of your system.....American...., it's
Pidro not
Pedro, epol not Apple....
I'm just singing to myself by the way, just remembered that song by
APOHS.
No offense meant.
Perseus
*kamagong*@kurokuro.net <*kamagong*@kurokuro.net> wrote in message
<347865...@kurokuro.net>...
>Lets not connect learning a second language with citizenship or being
>more or less a citizen of any country.
>It's a ridiculous and foolish connection.
>Knowing or teaching or accepting or speaking a second language DOES NOT
>mean being less of a citizen.
You are right -- learning a second language does not mean disloyalty to a
country and a people that has accepted us. However, when somebody says that
he or she is only here to make a living, while migrating everyone in his or
her family, then it should be pointed out that the spirit of immigration
does not simply end there. The interests of this country has become prime
for all of us, regardless of nationality, who have adopted it and been
adopted by it.
Pedro
uhhmmm...never mind i thought you were calling me..but since i'm here i
might as well give .02 cents. I agree there's no need to question one's
sense of nationalism in this NG. gotta go, i got a bet with Perseus on
that Villanueva vs. Totoy Tigas rumble.
....american stuff, get it out of blood striiiim, american stuff, get it
out of my systiiim, american stuff, take me back to where who i am.....
*kamagong*@kurokuro.net wrote:
> hey posters.....ATTENTION!!
>
> Lets not connect learning a second language with citizenship or being
> more or
> less a citizen of any country.
>
> It's a ridiculous and foolish connection.
>
> Knowing or teaching or accepting or speaking a second language DOES
> NOT
> mean being
> less of a citizen.
>
Victor Medrano
Victor Medrano <vmed...@direct.ca> wrote
in article <01bcf7e1$d12079c0$3df5aecc@victor-home>...
I recall the name of that bread; it's called "Ingera." There's some
interesting articles on Ethiopian cuisine and recipes on the following URL:
http://www.belgium-emb.org/nacoej/13.html
--------
<http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/9798/>
"Life is plastic - it's fantastic!"
--Barbie Girl, AQUA
John J. Cristobal
On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 *kamagong*@kurokuro.net wrote:
> hey posters.....ATTENTION!!
>
> Lets not connect learning a second language with citizenship or being
> more or
> less a citizen of any country.
> less of a citizen.
[snipped]
> .....American .....get it out of your system.....American...., it's
> Pidro not
> Pedro, epol not Apple....
Hehehhehe...you're being mild there, Mang Kamagong. It goes like
..."American junk"....git it awt op mi sistem.... :)
John J. Cristobal
On 23 Nov 1997, Victor Medrano wrote:
> You guys should seriously try Ethiopian food. It sounds rather
> adventurous, but one uses hands for that too, so it's probably similar to
> "Kamayan," which I've only tried once before. Ethiopian food is fantastic.
> One uses a piece of floppy bread, for which there is a special exotic term
> that slips my mind, to scoop the diced meat and vegetables. I've never
> heard of "Paahan" though, except maybe for making wine...
>
> Vic
Hey Ka Vic! I believe I've tried that bread and meat stuffing combo
before. A friend took me to one of those restaurants for lunch one
time. Didn't know what kind of food they had--turned out to be the
one you described above, also with some kind of sauce.
It was sumptuous!
JonZ93111
"Victor Medrano" <vmed...@direct.ca> writes:
>Victor Medrano <vmed...@direct.ca> wrote
>in article <01bcf7e1$d12079c0$3df5aecc@victor-home>...
>|
>| John J. Cristobal <udu0...@email.sjsu.edu> wrote in article
>| <Pine.GSO.3.95.971118...@athens.sjsu.edu>...
>| | On 17 Nov 1997, Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri
>| pembo wrote:
>| |
>| | > And if not, are there any enterprising (rich) pinoys on the newsgroup
>| | > who would like to open one? I'd go. I'm sure John J. Cristobal
>would
>| | > go. Maybe we should have another SCF gathering at some restaurant,
>| | > even if it isn't kamayan, and eat with our hands.
>| | >
>| | > -joanna
>| | > not that I've been to any of the past SCF gatherings, but still...
>| |
>| | That would be a novel idea--perhaps we can encourage some affluent
>| | venture capitalists (it's Silicon Valley, after all) and sell them
>| | on the concept. The name itself, "Kamayan," has often elicited some
>| | chuckles from me. I've always wondered if somebody, someday might
>| | tool with the notion and extend it to that of a "Paahan." Now, talk
>| | about raising the bar in avant-garde dining! It'll truly be a unique
>| | "experience." Couple that with unmatched guest service, where the
>| | waiters and waitresses literally "put their best feet forward."
>| |
>| | Though, I honestly doubt if it'll catch on :)
>| |
>| | --John
>| |
>|
>| adventurous, but one uses hands for that too, so it's probably similar to
>| "Kamayan," which I've only tried once before. Ethiopian food is
>fantastic.
>| One uses a piece of floppy bread, for which there is a special exotic
>term
>| that slips my mind, to scoop the diced meat and vegetables. I've never
>| heard of "Paahan" though, except maybe for making wine...
>|
>| Vic
>|
>
>interesting articles on Ethiopian cuisine and recipes on the following URL:
> http://www.belgium-emb.org/nacoej/13.html
I remember taking Lola to an Ethiopian restaurant in Santa Monica, but she
wouldn't eat anything since the rice was not white. I just thought I mention
this so nobody gets scared of yellow rice ;)
Jon Zimmermann
http://members.aol.com/jonz93111
Jun B.
John J. Cristobal wrote:
> Ka Jun!! Ano ba't saan ka nagsuot?? Ikaw, pabakasyon-bakasyon ka na lang
> diyan, ni walang kang pahintulot sa amin ni Aling Maring. O mawawalan
> ka ba ng ISP? Tila marami naman diyan sa Toronto, 'di ba?
Wala naman. Medyo pahinga lang ng konti.
Medyo hindi na nga ako masyadong makakatambay dito, eh; paminsan-minsan
na lang. Buti na lang inako ni Aling Maring ang tungkulin bilang bantay
ng SCF laban sa mga "pen-pal seekers". Siyanga pala, may isang
umaaligid-aligid na <micky...@aol.com> yata. Nandidito pa rin ba
siya?
-------------------
Jun B.
bai...@interlog.com
Perseus
TatieA wrote in message <19971125023...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Perseus wrote:
><<I haven't asked TatieA to go that far, because I have given him/her the
>benefit of the doubt. I do not even know if he/she is american. If that
>First of all Mr.Perseus, machong-macho ako ( pambulog), barako(stud).
>Secondly, we're not citizens of this country yet, we(me and my wife) are
>Filipinos who are working hard here to have a better life. I will go back
to
>the my counrty when it's time.
Well that clears it out. I wasn't sure if you were male of female - no
indication in the name whatsoever, like Peter or Rebecca would have clued me
out. When you say, ".....not citizens...yet.." then that leaves some room.
I hope you reconsider. Let me say that I had the same sentiments when first
came here. I was and will always be a filipino -- not giving up the
citizenship, and having the goal to return home intact someday. My friends
accepted me and gracefully tolerated my pro-filipino sentiments, while
laughing at me, and saying that i sounded just like them at the start, and
that I would be changing my mind later on. I would have bet everything I
owned at that time to prove them wrong. Fortunately, I did not -- coz now,
I think and feel like them. Now, I only entertain thoughts of going home
for a visit or for retirement.
>Finally, the US govt. is the one who are
>leeching our resources - beside the enormous amount of taxes that we pay
>yearly, my children are not entitled to any school discounts (such as
lunches
>in the school cafeteria ) because of our so-called "above the level"
income. We
>cannot avail of services in govt.hospitals for free though we have Filipino
>friends who are doctors in this hospital for the same reason that I have
>mentioned above. Fortunately, our health insurance is provided by my
company.
>Pero mas "HIYANG" ako pag Filipino ang duktor...
It is plain tit for tot. Everybody pays taxes, citizen or immigrant. In
your case, you still avail of the benefits of a freer society, higher wages
and returns for your efforts, which you could not have even if you literally
break your back in the philippines. That you do not enjoy the benefits of
selected services is understandable. This country could hardly keep up with
its own. Even americans are subjected to "abilility to pay" when requesting
for benefits from government, educational lending institutions, and
insurance coverage. That you have friends who will help you out is a boon.
You say that you have health insurance -- I wonder how you could not opt
for a doctor of your choosing. Perhaps you're with an HMO, but still, a
lot of filipino doctors participate in HMOs. I see a filipino doctor, and
I'm enrolled in an HMO.
>Oh, btw, these doctors keep coming back in the Philippines every year to
render
>their services in some remote areas for free of charge. They still do not
>forget our countrymen and they try to give back a small part of their good
>fortune to the less fortunate in the Philippines. I bet you miss these kind
of
>Filipinos in your neighborhood,eh?
We have those kinds of people in our neighborhood. They are most helpful -
a filipino doctor attended to my uncle, not considering the fact that my
uncle did not have health insurance. As to the type of filipinos in my
neighborhood ? We've got both kinds -- the goods ones and the scum of the
lot. We've got organizers, and we've got the gossips and the
intrigeros-intrigeras. We have the do-gooders and then those who create
division in the community. We've got multiple organizations that fight with
each other. We've got filipinos those who don't bother joining them
organizations due to all the bull and crap. We have the old as well as the
young. If you say you value being a filipino, and you only have one kind of
people in your neihborhood, then you're missing the true filipino
atmosphere.
MariaClara
*********************
well hello ka junb! here's your throne back! ako naman ang
magbabakasyon! ba't ang daming umaalis ngayon. ina-atake ba kayo ng
rayuma? ;-) just don't leave before i get back okay! i'm just gonna
get more snow for my halo-halo stand--- be back....
TatieA
Ferdinand C. Solis aka lemonhead wrote:
<<so if a big war breaks out and you will be asked to contribute to the
war effort directly or indirectly you will not help at all because your
loyalty is to the philippines and not to the united states of america, i
suppose.>>
Last thing I want to think about is another big war in this world. Only the
weak, children, women and the aged suffer most in the outcome of the atrocities
of war.
My loyalty will always remain to my country (Philippines). Just look at the
Filipino veterans who fought gallantly in favor of Americans during WW II, very
few got good benefits and recognized and the rest are weak and aged and are
still fighting for their rights and looks like they are still begging to the
American govt. Most of them will die unremembered and without dignity.
<< you commie bastage, you have no right to be a resident of this
great country.>>
Since when did you become an Immigration Officer to tell me that? Bring me to
Congress to prove that I am a commie!
<<go back to the philippines and take your poor brainwashed
kids with you.>>
My kids have better IQ's than you do. You always think that you are an American
but you're still here in this newsgroup where people are discussing their
heritage and exploring the filipino culture. What are you doing here?!? I will
believe in you if you leave this place and post your articles to those
newsgroups where you think you belong.
TatieA
Perseus wrote:
<<I haven't asked TatieA to go that far, because I have given him/her the
benefit of the doubt. I do not even know if he/she is american. If that
the philippines. As afor his/her children, if they were minors, they might
still change their mind. But I hope they don't get brain-washed to think
that they can leech all their lives. This country is overflowing with
leeches -- and I hope TatieA is not one of them, and that her/his kids
don't turn out to be major.>>
First of all Mr.Perseus, machong-macho ako ( pambulog), barako(stud).
Secondly, we're not citizens of this country yet, we(me and my wife) are
Filipinos who are working hard here to have a better life. I will go back to
the my counrty when it's time. Finally, the US govt. is the one who are
leeching our resources - beside the enormous amount of taxes that we pay
yearly, my children are not entitled to any school discounts (such as lunches
in the school cafeteria ) because of our so-called "above the level" income. We
cannot avail of services in govt.hospitals for free though we have Filipino
friends who are doctors in this hospital for the same reason that I have
mentioned above. Fortunately, our health insurance is provided by my company.
Pero mas "HIYANG" ako pag Filipino ang duktor...
midnight...@mailexcite.com
Shit. If war breaks out, I'm getting myself stationed in Canada. Uncle
Sam won't be ordering this little brown guy to kill other little brown
guys. You probably would volunteer at "point".
TatieA's primary reason for living in the U.S. is economic advancement.
That does not make this person a commie!
In article <657as7$8...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
lemonhead <cdcd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> TatieA wrote:
>
> >
> > Mr.Perseus, we are on very different perspectives in terms of being
Filipino.
> > We came here in America to have better opportunities and not to become
> > Americans. We talked to our kids and asked them if they want to be Americans
> > and they replied with the big "NO" . So, to answer your question above, yes,
> > that's it!
>
> so if a big war breaks out and you will be asked to contribute to the
> war effort directly or indirectly you will not help at all because your
> loyalty is to the philippines and not to the united states of america, i
> suppose. you commie bastage, you have no right to be a resident of this
> great country. go back to the philippines and take your poor brainwashed
> kids with you.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Tony Castillo
merlito wrote:
>
> Bgdomingo wrote:
>
> > >BTW, no offense taken. You probably represent a majority of Filipino
> > >parents in the US.
> > >There's nothing wrong with Filipino-Americans who cannot speak
> > >Pilipino. But children will not find it difficult to learn to speak
> > >more than one language.
> > >
> > >What I'm trying to say is: if Filipino-Americans learn their parent's
> > >language, they will be as thoroughly familiar with the Filipino culture
> > >just as well as the mainstream American culture.
> > >
> > >
> > For one thing, I don't want my children to learn about our culture. Out culture
> > or traditions, in my own opinion and experience since I was born and raised in
> > Manila...is purely a backward culture. If they want to learn our native
> > language, so be it. But as long as they don't desire to learn it....why force
> > them???
> >
> > Bong D
> >
> > "The Deep South"
>
> Edukasyon Pare KO ! EDUKASYON!
> Palibhasa kaya ka lamang natutong umingles ay pinagpraktisan mo lamang
> ang mga anak mo, eh hindi tuloy silang natutong tumagalog sa Amerika!
>
> NO OFFENSE
> CRESPO
I don't think that our culture is the one that is backward... I believe
it is the state of mind of some of our 'kababayan'. Sabi nga eh,
nakatuntong
ka lang sa Amerika (sa Australia in my case), nag-iba ka na.
Mas mabuti sigurong lumaki itong anak ko na may pag-galang sa akin at
pati
na sa mga nakakatanda hindi katulad ng ibang pinoy na sinisipa ang
kanilang
sariling magulang sa sariling pamamahay.... Well, it is a cult thing.
Just my Australian 2cents....
regards,
tony
BULACAN MAN!
midnight...@mailexcite.com wrote:
>
> Shit. If war breaks out, I'm getting myself stationed in Canada. Uncle
> Sam won't be ordering this little brown guy to kill other little brown
> guys. You probably would volunteer at "point".
>
>
Come to Canada, Canada like the Philippino people!!
Bulacan Man!
Jun B.
MariaClara wrote:
> well hello ka junb! here's your throne back! ako naman ang
> magbabakasyon! ba't ang daming umaalis ngayon. ina-atake ba kayo ng
> rayuma? ;-) just don't leave before i get back okay! i'm just gonna
> get more snow for my halo-halo stand--- be back....
Aling Maring, I won't be hanging around SCF much longer. So if you can
act as senrty from behind the halo-halo stand, that would be great.
Sige, aalis na ako. Uulan yata, dahil sumasakit na naman ang tuhod ko.
--------------------
Jun B.
bai...@interlog.com
MariaClara
Jun B. wrote:
>
>
> Aling Maring, I won't be hanging around SCF much longer.
**************************
that's what they all say.... you'll leave and in the beginning you'll
be fine and forget about us--- for a little while... then something will
keep nudging you in your sleep... you'll have nightmares and wake up in
cold sweat screaming "i am pilipino!!!"... your eyes would pop wide
open, you'd turn to your side and realize your wife is still sound
asleep... you'll then hear soft whispers ---- "kahhh junbeeehhh...
kahhhh junbeeehhhhhh". and in a zombie state, you'd drag one leg and
slowly walk into the next room. you'd turn your pc on and you'll be
right back where you've started... oh yeah... you got the bug!....
hhhhyou're one of usssssaahhhhhhh...
>So if you can
> act as senrty from behind the halo-halo stand, that would be great.
********************
i'll try but i won't be as good... i just cut and paste...
>
> Sige, aalis na ako. Uulan yata, dahil sumasakit na naman ang tuhod ko.
> --------------------
>
> Jun B.
> bai...@interlog.com
*********************
hhhyyooou'llll beeeeee bhhhhaaackkkkk....... ;-)
John J. Cristobal
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, MariaClara wrote:
> Jun B. wrote:
> >
> > Aling Maring, I won't be hanging around SCF much longer.
>
> **************************
> that's what they all say.... you'll leave and in the beginning you'll
> be fine and forget about us--- for a little while... then something will
> keep nudging you in your sleep... you'll have nightmares and wake up in
> cold sweat screaming "i am pilipino!!!"... your eyes would pop wide
[putol]
Babalik...at babalik ka rin, Ka Jun.
Hindi mo matatanggihan ang tawag ng tanghalan...
> hhhyyooou'llll beeeeee bhhhhaaackkkkk....... ;-)
--John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John J. Cristobal jjcri...@hotmail.com
udu0...@email.sjsu.edu www.mathcs.sjsu.edu/student/cris1154
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikbalang
>tat...@aol.com (TatieA)
>Date: Mon, Nov 24, 1997 21:34 EST
>Message-id: <19971125023...@ladder01.news.aol.com>wrote:
>
>Oh, btw, these doctors keep coming back in the Philippines every year to
>render
>their services in some remote areas for free of charge. They still do not
>forget our countrymen and they try to give back a small part of their good
>fortune to the less fortunate in the Philippines. I bet you miss these kind
>of
>Filipinos in your neighborhood,eh?
>
>
Maala ala ko pala, wala bang Filipino-American Politician na mag volunteer
upang tulungan ang mga politician sa atin?
midnight...@mailexcite.com
In article <347AC1...@netcom.ca>,
Philippino people? You're not from Bulacan!!! You're Chinese who's been to
Bulacan once. Am I right?
Rhett Valino Pascual
In article <657ccd$g...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
>like you do. They're quite content, and just like me, believe that the kids
>should be allowed to grow up without scrupples about his nationality, and
>allow them to blend in with the rest in the easiest way possible, without
>parents introducing ideas that could possibly make them insecure about
>themselves, and feel at a disadvantage starting off life with an idea that
>they're always be on the defensive. You kids I suppose are young not to
If the children were born in the US, they are Americans. If they grew up
here for the most part, they are Americans. They can never escape that
fact. Test that hypothesis by sending children out of the US. They will
be identified as Americans. This non-sense about children not being able
to understand concepts of individuality and self is the biggest load of
crap i have ever heard from many immigrant parents.
Ask yourself what a child goes through when it is growing up. The child
is learning and identifying family and self at the age of 3-6 years old.
The idea of being an American is a simple extension of group
identification, although, most people probably have never heard about it
in this sociological point of view.
For crying out loud, children are doing fractions and concepts of sets and
zero when they are 8-9 years old. do we really think that they will be
confused if you explain it well to them?
what you will find is that children will get confused when they look at
themselves and they don't see something which looks like them in the
television. Look at sportscasters, newscasters, CNN, etc, etc, and you
will see some filipinos. But then, look at other areas and you will not
see filipinos (football, basketball, fashion magazine, corporate america).
this will lead them to question who they are and what they are. Questions
about identity always arise.
>know why they choose not to be americans. But just in case they on a
>majority age to make that decision, then, I do not see any reason why they
>should still be here in the united states.
for someone who insists that he is an american, you certainly espouse
ideas and concepts which are distinctly un-american. perhaps, you forgot
that tolerance of differing points of views is a hallmark of being an
american. your statement to exclude those who don't think they are
ameriocans is very intolerant.
perhaps a more deep analysis and reflection on the freedom of others
should be your next task in the hope of gaining your valued americanship.
REtongAmerikanski
--
*******************************************************************
http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/ginza/4890/index.html
Tikbalang
Why should we worry? Look!
The blacks claim that they are African-American but they can not speak any
African languages.
The Irish has their St. Patrick day but they could not speak Celtics.
The Hispanic-American can talk Spanish but actually they are not Spanish but
native Indians subjugated by the Spaniards.
The WASP claims that they are the descendants of Anglo-Saxons but actually they
are not but people who were suppressed by the Anglo-saxons who forced them to
flee to America.
So why we Filipino worry? Do you understand the happenings here? So forget
about that craps of speaking Tagalog or whatever. Why not invest your time to
make these kids more knowledgeable and let them do what the other Americans
kids are doing such as not to be dependent from their parents. That is one
thing wrong with us Filipinos is we have a lot of sentimental values that
destroy the progress of our nation. We are here already in America so stop of
whining and let us be Americans!
John J. Cristobal
On 27 Nov 1997, Tikbalang wrote:
> The Irish has their St. Patrick day but they could not speak Celtics.
Mang Tik, kaunting puna lang...baka ang itinutukoy ninyo ay "Gaelic."
Yung "Celtics" ay ang dating sinalihan ni Larry Bird. :)
Azmik
Tiklabang, I agree with you wholeheartedly!
>thing wrong with us Filipinos is we have a lot of sentimental values that
>destroy the progress of our nation. We are here already in America so stop
of
>whining and let us be Americans!
---------------here goes:
ive heard among some young Pinoys that if you can't speak Tagalog, then
you're a "sell-out". this is mainly coming from the young Pinoys who came
from the Philippines. Where does that put someone like me (and there are A
LOT of us around), a Filipino American, 1st generation American from the 3rd
wave of Filipinos who decided to come to the USA post-1965, grew up among
other Filipino youths with the same background, spoke "some" Tagalog or
Ilocano? My cousin looks more Filipino than myself but he doesn't know the
difference between "Ganito/Ganyan and Kasjai/Kastui" and he even took a
college Tagalog course in San Diego. You can even say he talks more "white"
than most. I maybe more culturally aware than him but that doesn't make me
any more Filipino than him.
the language thing is very divisive. you have your native speakers, the
ones who want to learn/trying to catch up (hell, I didn't even know what
"KANO" was until I started this SCF thing months ago! :) ), the Pinoys who
USED to speak the language but won't, the Pinoys who refuse to learn, and
every combination possible.
my point is NO it is not a shame that some Filipinos can't speak the native
language (by choice or by circumstance). everyone is entitled to their own
desire (or lack of it) to know the language. For me I am a little embarrased
when spoken to in Tagalog and I have to mention that I can't speak it
(that's just me). When I worked in a department store in CA a caucasian
guy even schooled me with how to say "take care" in Tagalog
(Ingat).....amazing! i think the real shame is when a few Filipinos totally
disassociate themselves from Filipinos altogether for whatever reason (thats
another story).
AZMIK
Tansong Isda
Tikbalang wrote:
> Why should we worry? Look!
>
> The blacks claim that they are African-American but they can not speak any
> African languages.
Not true, African-Americans, because there are words in their English, and the
so-called Ebonics have roots in Africa(eg., ax instead of ask, the lack of sounds
like 'sk', so it becomes 'x') and the dances, some aspects of the music. Among
other things.... if you go to New Orleans, some parts of the Carolinas & Virginia
where towns are 90% Blacks.
> The Irish has their St. Patrick day but they could not speak Celtics.
The language is Gaelic, and very few Irish speaks that language(it is one of the
rarest language, by the way, Gaelic is spoken in Scotland as well although it is
one of the dialects, Catalan in Spain is Gaelic in origin, so is Basque).
> The Hispanic-American can talk Spanish but actually they are not Spanish but
> native Indians subjugated by the Spaniards.
Southwestern Indians speak a mixture of Spanish and whatever their dialect is,
Mexican-Americans are what you are talking about here. Hispanic only because of the
language(much easier grouping than CubanXX, Mex-XX,etc..etc..).
> The WASP claims that they are the descendants of Anglo-Saxons but actually they
> are not but people who were suppressed by the Anglo-saxons who forced them to
> flee to America.
Not all, some actually came here to make money out of this country and they somehow
did gain control of the power early, because the English Crown gave them all the
governorships and the powers here in the colonies.
> So why we Filipino worry? Do you understand the happenings here? So forget
> about that craps of speaking Tagalog or whatever. Why not invest your time to
> make these kids more knowledgeable and let them do what the other Americans
> kids are doing such as not to be dependent from their parents. That is one
> thing wrong with us Filipinos is we have a lot of sentimental values that
> destroy the progress of our nation. We are here already in America so stop of
> whining and let us be Americans!
The Irish who is losing their understanding of the language of their people, IMHO,
this thread started because of the fear of seeing a language die, like the Hawaiian
language, which is recovering only by Samoan speakers (whose Poelynesian dialect is
actually different), who is teaching the language and reconstruct, imagine this it
doesn't take long to kill a language.
Perseus
Rhett, a side comment: It's a learning process. If I can appreciate so
much (with all the baggage I carry), then I have made the grade. Those who
will follow after me will do better. I don't have to pass on my baggage to
them. That's not fair, and that's not right either. Forgetting and leaving
the past may sound too radical, but it hastens the process and preserves the
younger gen from cultural shock -- my opinion.
Rhett Valino Pascual wrote in message <65qdk8$frn$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
|Tikbalang <tikb...@aol.com> wrote:
|>So why we Filipino worry? Do you understand the happenings here? So forget
|>about that craps of speaking Tagalog or whatever. Why not invest your time
to
|>make these kids more knowledgeable and let them do what the other
Americans
|>kids are doing such as not to be dependent from their parents. That is one
|
|tik, since you are so bold in stating that filipinos should just leave and
|forget their past, i would like you to tell us just exactly what being an
|american means. can you define for us just what you mean when you say you
|are an american?
|
|i ask because before i follow your advice, i'd like to know if you know
|anything about what you speak of.
|
|REtongUnbeliever&NonFollowerOfTik
|
|--
|
|
|*******************************************************************
|http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/ginza/4890/index.html
Perseus
Rhett Valino Pascual wrote in message <65hf6h$73j$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
|In article <657ccd$g...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
|Perseus <perseu...@earthling.net> wrote:
|> -- it's
|>part of being an american.
|
|here for the most part, they are Americans. They can never escape that
|fact. Test that hypothesis by sending children out of the US. They will
|be identified as Americans. This non-sense about children not being able
|to understand concepts of individuality and self is the biggest load of
|crap i have ever heard from many immigrant parents.
This nonesense can turn out to be crap if parents rib their children of
their filipino-ness. Children understand concepts -- but they build from
simple to complicated. And they too can get confused. Why should we
confuse them at a stage when they try to connect concepts together ? Why
not allow them to make themselves strong in their assimilation first and
then entertain the subject of "who is a filipino" when they bring this up on
their own? Chances are that they won't. My neices and nephews demonstrate
to me that they are not so concerned with it right now. So why should I
raise the issue up? I don't think parents should plant seeds, with all
their good intentions, while at the same time creating a maze up the child's
mind.
|The idea of being an American is a simple extension of group
|identification, although, most people probably have never heard about it
|in this sociological point of view.
This simple extension of group identification is not as simple as it sounds.
It is a building block -- which we as parents should strive to strengthen by
encouragement when it is required and our silence when things are working on
proper phasing and development. I do not think it wise to meddle at a time
when we can only create multiple branches within a child's thoughts when he
has not completed a concept.
|For crying out loud, children are doing fractions and concepts of sets and
|zero when they are 8-9 years old. do we really think that they will be
|confused if you explain it well to them?
How well is well ? Can we look at ourselves, be as fair as possible, and
ask ourselves if we are ruled by bias ? Do we have personal inclinations
that we wish to propagate with our children? Should we raise the issue when
not solicited or asked for? Is it self-seving? If I were to explain to
them that we are immigrants, from a country from the east, and that we are
immigrats like most americans in this country, WITHOUT emphasizing how
important is it not to forget that we are filipino, then why not ? I can
tell them stories about christmas and lent in the philippines, but I will
not attempt to make them feel proud to be a filipino -- but rather to feel
proud to be american.
|what you will find is that children will get confused when they look at
|themselves and they don't see something which looks like them in the
|television. Look at sportscasters, newscasters, CNN, etc, etc, and you
|will see some filipinos. But then, look at other areas and you will not
|see filipinos (football, basketball, fashion magazine, corporate america).
|this will lead them to question who they are and what they are. Questions
|about identity always arise.
They will indeed, but we should answer them when they ask those questions.
I do not think that we should pre-empt. In the case of my household, the
kids don't watch those shows. They watch Disney Channel -- have you seen
the make up of kids at the Disney Channel lately ?
|for someone who insists that he is an american, you certainly espouse
|ideas and concepts which are distinctly un-american. perhaps, you forgot
|that tolerance of differing points of views is a hallmark of being an
|american. your statement to exclude those who don't think they are
|ameriocans is very intolerant.
First, I don't believe my thoughts are un-american. Un-american is
confusing american children to think that they are something else.
Un-american is to believe that we cannot do better, and that we should
continue depend on others to fill in for us. Un-american is tolerating
immigrants to avail of benefits while many true americans are passed up.
Un-american is giving preferences to a group because of skin color or
nationality. Intolerance is not inherent among us who are immigrants. It
is the last trait that an immigrant like myself would ever entertain.
Intolerance only sets in when a system we thought to be most humanitarian
has reached a point that it no longer helps but breeds suckers and
dependents. Next, to be american is to be true to one's chosen citizenship
and then looking forward for completeness. Being american is building our
children on his citizenship and not confusing him. Being american is
pointing out the defects, striving to solve problems, and fixing a broken
system. Being american is to treat fellow americans as equals and those who
came here ahead not as betters. Being american, is to put americans first.
The past are memories and treasures which should not be used to burden the
new generations of americans -- let these be ours to bear, not our
children.
|perhaps a more deep analysis and reflection on the freedom of others
|should be your next task in the hope of gaining your valued americanship.
|REtongAmerikanski
You do not possess sole authority or sole truth or prime analysis. Each one
has his own way of seeing things - I do see things differently and so do
you. My reflection of freedom and liberty are as good as anybody else's.
IO am good as an american as you will ever be. I value my citizenship my
way, and you value yours your way. Please cease raising your opinion as
superior to others -- yours is as good as all the rest. The difference
lies in agreement and disagreement by proponents, and not in truth --
anyway, opinions are what they are -- opinions.
Perseus
si...@banaag.ma wrote in message <34810120...@banaag.ma>...
|Magtatanong lang, bakit sa palagay ninyo pinilit ni Rizal sumulat ng
nobelang
|tagalog?
That was Rizal -- he was trying to make a political statement I suppose?
Where I'm not.
Rhett Valino Pascual
si...@banaag.ma
Magtatanong lang, bakit sa palagay ninyo pinilit ni Rizal sumulat ng nobelang
tagalog?
Pulitikero
====================================================
Tikbalang
>gldn...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Rhett Valino Pascual)
>Date: Sat, Nov 29, 1997 19:56 EST
>Message-id: <65qdk8$frn$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>wrote:
>
>
>tik, since you are so bold in stating that filipinos should just leave and
>forget their past, i would like you to tell us just exactly what being an
>american means. can you define for us just what you mean when you say you
>are an american?
>
>i ask because before i follow your advice, i'd like to know if you know
>anything about what you speak of.
>
>REtongUnbeliever&NonFollowerOfTik
>
May kariharapan din na sagutin iyan kung iyan ang tanong dahil ang worldwide na
pagka intindi ng tao tungkol sa Amerikano ay isang Caucasian, Anglo-Saxon
surname, English speaking, at matangkad. These identities are also similar to
the people from New Zealand and Australia who are also mistaken as Americans
due to their similarity. Generally speaking , these are always the
perception of people who live outside the border pertaining to a typical
American.
Ang tanong mo ngayon kung paano ang Filipino maging Amerikano? Aba, unang una
ay umalis kana sa Pilipinas, tumira dito as Green Card holder primero, at hindi
naglaon ay citiizen ka na. Sumusumpa ka sa Court as a Citizen at sumusunod sa
Constitution ng Amerikano. Malinaw na inaayawan mo na ang pagka Pilipino mo at
Amerikano ka na. Ngayon pagka may anak ka na, bakit ipipilit mo pa sa anak mo
na marunong kang magtagalog or whatever dialect you have na Amerikano naman
iyang anak mo. Hindi ba kalokohan iyan.
Okey at bumalik tayo sa ating inang bayan. Ang sabi daw na ang pinangalingan
natin ay sa Malaysia at Indonesia at ang mga egoy sa atin ay galing sa Africa.
Nasaan ang tanong na katulad nito? Mayroon bang nagtuturo sa atin kung ano ang
lenguawahe ng Sawili, Malaysia o Indonesian? Mayroon bang nakaisip na dumalaw
ng kanilang mga kamag anak dito? Bakit nga ba?
antonqui
I don't understand why people keep moving away from the obvious
and rather resort to complicated rhetorics. This thread seemed to
have gone too far from its original intent. It is an established
fact that a child could absorb multiple languages at the same
time. At this stage it is within your power as a parent to add
your own language/s to your child's tongue other than English by
merely speaking to him/her -- in your own language. As Jon Z.
pointed out it is not a question of how many but which. You chose
to pick one and made a big deal out of it by pointing out about
this assimilation nonsense. Assimilation to whom? To be able to
speak two to three languages is not assimilation? The fact that
he was born and raised in the US is enough guarrantee that he/she
will speak the mainstream language in the glorious American
accent. It seemed to me that we are trying to subvert
incontrovertible facts:
1. The US is a multi-cultural society
2. Blood is thicker than water, meaning:
3. Birds of the same feather sticks together. Hispanics stick
with Hispanics, Europeans stick with Europeans, Chinese stick
with Chinese, etc. To go a little bit further, athletes stick
with athletes, chess players stick with chessplayers,
intellectuals stick with intellectuals, bums stick with bums...
Now, if you think that assimilation is to be able to stick with
white Americans only then you might as well burn Chinatown,
prevent Mexicans from singing Spanish songs, Indians from dancing
the Indian dance, etc.
si...@banaag.ma
Aside the political intention of Rizal, why would he write in Tagalog
when he was so successful writing political statements in his Noli and Fili,
surely he has more reason to do so. So let me put it straight back to
anyone who will care: What is the significance of speaking and writing in
our tounge--- yep, my tounge... mangyari, nadadapa pa rin ako sa pagsasalita
ng inglis... at nagsisimula na ring mamaluktot ang tagalog ko.
===================
Perseus wrote:
> si...@banaag.ma wrote in message <34810120...@banaag.ma>...
> |Magtatanong lang, bakit sa palagay ninyo pinilit ni Rizal sumulat ng
> nobelang
> |tagalog?
>
Perseus
Obviously, you expect a different answer -- and much more, you expect a
particular answer-significance akin to your own. So why not simply state
your position and let's pick it up from there ? Caring or non-caring does
not depend on agreement with what is in your mind.
si...@banaag.ma wrote in message <34817656...@banaag.ma>...
Perseus
antonqui wrote in message <34812ff8...@news.axionet.com>...
>have gone too far from its original intent. It is an established
>fact that a child could absorb multiple languages at the same
>time. At this stage it is within your power as a parent to add
>your own language/s to your child's tongue other than English by
>merely speaking to him/her -- in your own language.
Exactly my point - speak to kids in filipino if you think it that is fit.
They will learn, understand, and will respond. However, if children choose
to ignore or do not respond as expected, we should not feel that we have
betrayed the native country, and neither should we entertain any parental
guilt for it. Insistenting that our children should be able to speak the
language is another crap of our of devises.
>As Jon Z.
>pointed out it is not a question of how many but which. You chose
>to pick one and made a big deal out of it by pointing out about
>this assimilation nonsense. Assimilation to whom? To be able to
>speak two to three languages is not assimilation?
The introduction of assimilation into the original intent of the post comes
up only when another insists that teaching the language is a "must" and a
means to make a child feel more filipino than american. That is where I
strongly disagree with the others -- attempting to make children feel that
they are filipino first.
>The fact that
>he was born and raised in the US is enough guarrantee that he/she
>will speak the mainstream language in the glorious American
>accent. It seemed to me that we are trying to subvert
>incontrovertible facts:
Growing here is a guarantee that a child will learn the language, and
further more, twiddling with his filipino identity at this time will also
guarantee that a child will develop an imbedded idea of separation,
segregation, and differentness -- a sense that he is half of something and
half of another -- that's not an intact identity. Sure, talk to them in
filipino, but please let us not force "the filipino culture" down our kid's
throats.
>1. The US is a multi-cultural society
>2. Blood is thicker than water, meaning:
>3. Birds of the same feather sticks together. Hispanics stick
>with Hispanics, Europeans stick with Europeans, Chinese stick
>with Chinese, etc. To go a little bit further, athletes stick
All true, but if we can get our kids to blend in comfortably with family,
neighbor, and other cultures, that would be better than getting stuck with
one particular group. Those stereotypes are a result of some sense of
loyalty, but again, it also serves as a stumbling block, and many are so
stubborn to accept that.
>Now, if you think that assimilation is to be able to stick with
>white Americans only then you might as well burn Chinatown,
>prevent Mexicans from singing Spanish songs, Indians from dancing
>the Indian dance, etc.
That thought is defective by itself --- assimilation is not sticking with
whites americans alone. Partly, it is comfortable blending into a society
of different cultures without a sense of superiority, rather respect for
another. Assimilation is transcending race and color and creed, and
identifying oneself to be undoubtedly "american" in the right sense of the
word. See how the "white" term enters the rhetorical question presented
above ! Assimilation is thought of as a racial thing -- expand the
thought if you will, if you expect something beautiful and productive to
come out of this. See how this turns into a race issue -- on the surface
is the simple speaking of a language -- scratch down deeper, and the ugly
face of racism emerges. So, is simply speaking a language just that, or is
there something deeper than that?
Icnclst922
peerseus wrote:
>>The introduction of assimilation into the original intent of the post comes
up only when another insists that teaching the language is a "must" and a
means to make a child feel more filipino than american. That is where I
strongly disagree with the others -- attempting to make children feel that
they are filipino first.<<
It's about being proud and not being ashamed of their identity and heritage.
It's not about being Filipino first or American first. Learning the native
language and and their cultural heritage contributes to appreciation and pride
of one's heritage. It would be really difficult to learn about your parents or
homeland's culture and history without knowing their language. Anyway, what's
so hard about teaching children another language? Most likely, it will not be
too difficult for children to learn several languages if they start a young
age. It's not required that they have to master the language, either. If they
can converse or understand, that's probably enough. It will not be a
disadvantage to them to speak several languages, especially in an increasingly
multicultural and global society. Let's have more classes offering Philippine
languages and cultural studies.