The Crab Mentality

[Agapito Flores]

Ano ang ibig sabihin ng taong may talangkang pagiisip? At bakit
ito laganap sa ating kapaligiran? Bakit kahit yung ibang mga
Pilipino na nangibang bansa na ay may ganito pa ring pagiisip?
Mahirap ba talaga ito mawala?

Nagtatanong lang po,
Aga Flores

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

[dev...@lycos.co.uk]

This rather demeaning Pinoy trait is one thing that has to be changed.
Ewan ko kung bakit may mga Pinoy na ganyan ang pag-iisip. Mas
nakakagulat kung ika'y nasa ibang bansa dahil mas "exposed" ka sa mga
kulturang walang ganitong mentalidad.

Mahirap ata itong mawala - dapat ang mga kabataan ang turuan na ito ay
masama. Mahirap na turuan ang mga matatanda. <g>

[Jimi]

Plis lang po, sa tagal ko ng nawala sa Pilipinas ay maramin na akung
nakalimutan. Paki explica lang ho ang ibig sabihin ng talankang
pagiisip.

In article <91rqtf$76t$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

--
--- ___
/\ \ /| |
/__\(_)|___|

[AJ Pascual]

Iyan ang pag-uugali na ayaw ng isang tao na umunlad ang kaniyang kapuwa. Ano
ang dahilan?
Hindi ko alam. Sa palagay ko economic.

Siguro INGGIT, siguro ayaw maiwanan sa progreso ng kapuwa, siguro MARAMOT.
Baka rin insecure. O dahilan na siguro sa kahirapan, kakulangan o maari din
na
apathy o hopelessness.

Kaya ang ginagawa eh MANULOT at MANIRA. Ano man ang dahilan sa palagay ko
ay hindi nila ito kasalanan. Kasalanan ito ng mga PUTANG INANG hudas na
politiko at
mga byurukrats na walang ginawa kundi magyabang at mangurakot.

Kaya nagkaka-ganyan ang ating mga kababayan ay dahilan sa mga KALINTIKAN at
KASUWAPANGAN ng ating leadership sa public at private sectors.

"Jimi" <jnh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:91t4iv$5nm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Jimi]

Wala akong napapansin na ganyan dito sa mga Amer-Pinoys. Pero merong mga
nagkukwento na sinisiraan sila ng mga kamaganak nila sa Pilipinas. And
napansin ko rin noong una akong napadpad dito sa US ay kung saan
maraming matatandang Pilipino, ay mara ding talanka.

Siguro ganyan talaga ang mga matatandang ugali. Hindi sila kontento sa
sarili nilang buhay at kailangan silang mandamay. Kahit anong bigat ay
bubuhatin nila para lang maibaba nila ang kanilang kapwa Pilipino.

Buti na lang at batang-isip ang aking barkada.

.
.
.

Ang hirap magsulat ng wikang Pilipino. Hindi ko na alam kung tama ang
aking... uh... grammar. Makikinig ako ng Asin at Rey Valera mamaya. Baka
gumanda ang aking pananalita.

In article <d8s06.67347$df5.2...@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com>,

[expatau...@my-deja.com]

Climatic and historic reasons. When a nation is at a communal
/tribal stage of its development, particularly a tropical nation, there
is a community that helps you and people live in such communes where
everyone is friendly and helpful towards each other. However there is a
toll...you need to behave like everyone else or else.... Self reliance
is not fostered; reliance on the group and family is paramount. If you
try to be different, you will be ostracized and told that you are too
ambicioso...if you fall down, they will pull you up and vice versa...
Americans are from mainly England and Germany, countries with few
natural resources that were past the tribal stage when America was
built...Britain has so many people and so few resources to go around
that competition became the norm...that same spirit was transferred to
the US-take care of yourself, don't trust anybody, compete or die...

The filipinos are not alone in the crab mentality 'spirit'. Go to
Mexico and the same thing prevails. The problem is that whenever Pinoys
mag-abroad, few go to Mexico or Peru or other such countries...

So there is always this comparison-us 'crab' Pinoys vs. them, the
non-crab foreigners...Foreigners are invariably the rich Westerners and
the Japanese...go to Indonesia and live there or any other developing
country and see how things are there...the same thing...even worse...

[Gen Artemio Ricarte]

Easy, easy lang mga kabayan. Mahirap na ang narinig natin ay kailangang
paniwalaan kaagad natin. Hindi ako naniniwala na ang ganitong mentalidad e
gawain ng maraming Pilipino. Marami na akong lugar na napuntahan at ang
naniniwala lang dito sa kasabihang ito e ang mga taong sila mismo e ganito ang
pag-uugai.

Matagal akong nasa US Military (30 years) at masasabi kong ang mga Pilipinong
nakasama ko sa US Military e hindi ganito ang pag-uugali. Katunayan kami ay
nagtutulungan para sa ika-uunlad ng isa't-isa. Kapag may nakakuha ng ganoong
ranggo, maligaya kaming lahat dahil at least dalawa o tatlo sa amin e nakaabot
ng ganoon.

Noong nasa labas na ako at Civilian na e ganoon din ang nakita ko sa County
Government. Ang mga Pilipino e nagkaka-isa at nagtutulungan para sa ikauunlad
ng isa't-isa. Malayo sa mga sinasabi sa posteng it.

Sa Pilipinas naman e marami ang ganito (kakarampot kung ikukumpara sa tutal na
populasyon). Pero hindi sapat para sabihin na ang mga Pilipino e may mentalidad
na ganito. No sir, hindi ako mapapaniwala ng kahit sino na ganito ang mga
Pilipino. Bilangin ninyo lahat ng inyong kakilala at sabihin ninyo kung sino sa
kanila ang ganito. Ngayon kung ang bilang ninyo e mahigit sa nakakarami,
marahil pati kayo e ganito ang pag-uugali dahil may kasabihan na ang "Ang kuwago
e kasama din ng ibang mga kuwago".

Bato-bato sa langit tamaan huwag magagalit.

[Romy Abacan]

Ang mga dinatnan naming mga "old-timer" na Pilipino sa US Military ay may
mga "talangka mentality" dahil sila ay aral sa mga "Itim" na pinalitan nila
sa Kusina. Kung hindi ka mag-tatago ng nalalaman mo sa kapwa mo e hindi ka
mapo-promote. Nang generation na namin ang nag-take-over sa military (sa
mga specialty na maraming Pinoy) at wala ng "itim" o "old-timer" na mga
supevisor e nagtulung-tulungan na kaming mga Pinoy para kami ang manguna sa
promotion. Kaya ang "talangka mentality" ay hindi natin tunay na kaugalian
kung hindi ito e "reaction" lamang sa ating kapaligiran (environment) dahil
nakataya ang kabuhayan natin kung hindi tayo magkakaroon ng ganitong
pag-uugali. Pero ang sabihing ito e "natural" nating ugali e ilalaban ko ng
patayan iyan, dahil hindi totoo.

[AJ Pascual]

Pare, sana tama kayo ni General but I think si
Expat eh hindi lang tama kundi BULLSEYE.

"Romy Abacan" <rab...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3A42D422...@prodigy.net...

[ASmileInTheDark]

Agapito Flores <aga_f...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:91rqtf$76t$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> Ano ang ibig sabihin ng taong may talangkang pagiisip? At bakit
> ito laganap sa ating kapaligiran? Bakit kahit yung ibang mga
> Pilipino na nangibang bansa na ay may ganito pa ring pagiisip?
> Mahirap ba talaga ito mawala?

I don't think so and never do I have such rockspider's point of view. What
made you think that it was great to post such rubbish got me in the panic
mode. Is this newsgroup frequented by lunatics with the crab mentality like
you? I want to know.

[Agapito Flores]

In article <ppO06.2108$lE6....@ozemail.com.au>,

"ASmileInTheDark" <adn...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> I don't think so and never do I have such rockspider's point
> of view. What made you think that it was great to post such
> rubbish got me in the panic mode.

What are you talking about?! What panic mode are you referring
to? Your reading comprehension button? Can you understand
Tagalog, hijo? Do you need a translation?

> Is this newsgroup frequented by lunatics with the crab mentality
> like you? I want to know.

You should know. You've been here longer than I have.

[Agapito Flores]

Thanks for your very interesting exposition about your idea on
the origin of this kind of mentality. I must say I'm impressed
because I posted my questions in Tagalog and here you are,
trying to answer those questions. However, I don't think you
got the point of my post - which is understandable and is not
meant to offend you. I'll tell you more about this below...

In article <91u04k$ui6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

expatau...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Climatic and historic reasons. When a nation is at a communal
> /tribal stage of its development, particularly a tropical nation,
> there is a community that helps you and people live in such
> communes where everyone is friendly and helpful towards each
> other. However there is a toll...you need to behave like everyone
> else or else.... Self reliance is not fostered; reliance on the
> group and family is paramount. If you try to be different, you
> will be ostracized and told that you are too ambicioso...if you
> fall down, they will pull you up and vice versa... Americans are
> from mainly England and Germany, countries with few natural
> resources that were past the tribal stage when America was
> built...Britain has so many people and so few resources to go
> around that competition became the norm...that same spirit was
> transferred to the US-take care of yourself, don't trust anybody,
> compete or die...

Your statements about the West being very competitive societies
are certainly true. However, I'm not so sure about your idea on
Filipinos being tribal/clanish nowadays. I don't think we are
that backwards. We are sometimes very regionalistic but I don't
think that is the same as clanish (small group of people helping
only each other).

I am more inclined to think that this kind of mentality is a
leftover from the time when the Spanish ruled the country (as
well as Mexico and Peru and all the other previous Spanish
colonies). My current opinion is that the Spanish were lousy
colonizers. They were not forward looking. All they thought of
was the present, i.e., get as much as they can from their
colonies and subjugate the people so they won't develop. A
practice that was doomed to fail. If only they were more
progessive, I'm not sure if most of their colonies would've
rebeled against them.

So, the mentality came from the subjugation of the people. When
a mestizo begins to achieve little things, the authorities would
discourage the progress. And when an indio also starts to achieve
little things, the mestizos will discourage the progress. A way
of thinking that trickled down from the above down towards the
little indio people.

But that was centuries ago. Now, it does not anymore matter if
you're either a mestizo or an indio or whatever. Somehow, the
thinking evolved into a way of life for some Filipinos.

However, and this is a big however, one should not generalize this
way of thinking to exist in every Filipino. I know there are great
Filipinos out there who would help their fellow Filipinos achieve
something without asking anything in return.

> The filipinos are not alone in the crab mentality 'spirit'. Go to
> Mexico and the same thing prevails. The problem is that whenever
> Pinoys mag-abroad, few go to Mexico or Peru or other such
> countries...

That might be true and would just add to my hypothesis that the
origin might be because of the way the colonizer of these countries
handled its colonies.

> So there is always this comparison-us 'crab' Pinoys vs. them, the
> non-crab foreigners...Foreigners are invariably the rich Westerners
> and the Japanese...go to Indonesia and live there or any other
> developing country and see how things are there...the same
> thing...even worse...

Ok, so what was my main point? My point was NOT to accuse every
Filipino to have this kind of thinking. Some people somehow took
offense in this but if they read my posting again, and without
emotions this time, it will be very clear that I was not generalizing.
We must acknowledge that that way of thinking does exists in SOME of
us (even in this NG recent postings reminded me that it does
exist) and my only intention was to ask HOW WE COULD GET RID OF IT.
Something that Rommel immediately understood and consequently gave
suggestions.

The crab mentality way of thinking and behaving hinders our progress
as a nation, particularly when a person in power is involved.

Regards,
Aga Flores

[fred...@my-deja.com]

> Ang hirap magsulat ng wikang Pilipino. Hindi ko na alam kung tama ang
> aking... uh... grammar. Makikinig ako ng Asin at Rey Valera mamaya. Baka
> gumanda ang aking pananalita.

Ganon din ako. Kasi automatic na ang ingles sa ating isip. Dahil sa ingles
sira tuloy ang ating wikang pambansa. Taglish ang labas.

Kailan ba ihinto ang paggamit ng ingles sa Pilipinas?

Aba, sori, hindi na crab mentality ang thread.

[expatau...@my-deja.com]

Perhaps the wording was wrong. I guess instead of "tribal', one can
use" agricultural". As far as generalizing there are such things as
prevailing attitudes...common attitudes vs less common
attitudes...general national character..etc...I am sure that if you
make an appointment with 10 Germans 9 will come on time...If you make
appointments with 10 Spaniards, most will show up late...

I remember my Filipina girlfriend coming to a date 2 hours
late...and my Puerto Rican girlfriend once showed up 3 hours late! and
my American girlfriend only 10 minutes late...and she would call...not
everybody is like that but percentagewise, Southern peoples are less
punctual becuase the agriculture is more abundant there and people do
not need to rush rush rush and use time efficiently to plant and reap
harvest in 2-3 months, see?

In warmer countries people are generally more lax...So these warm, lax,
agricultural people colonized you guys...so what do you expect?...Had
the more indistrialized Nordic Brits done that, things could have been
different...but again, there has to be a group that responds to
colonization...The Chinese and the Brits made a good
pair..cold+cold=steely efficiency..;Spaniards+Pinoys=warm+warm=what you
have now...

Pinoy+American creates more "colder, efficient points but does not
completely kill out the Southern laxity...

So sorry about the tribal part, I meant...Southern relaxed agricultural
vs. Northern , tense, industrial mentalities...

[bala...@my-deja.com]

You know, pinoys have the crab mentality because this little crustacean
is one delicious meal. Where else can you find something so ugly, so
nasty but yet so tasty???? I ask you and i bet you can't answer that
little questrion.

have you ever tasted burong talangka? dang, that is another tasty
concoction by them pinoys. whoweeee!!!! can i get some buro with some
rice? and if i'm lucky, maybe some tuyo.

asukal

[Tansong Isda]

bala...@my-deja.com wrote:

I used to trap little talangka in fresh water streams (yes, small soft
shelled talangka are of the fresh water variety) then burro them....Yum!

[AJ Pascual]

Showing up late in appointments does signifies importance....I don't know
why...

<expatau...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93qd01$46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Congenital Kano]

"AJ Pascual" <lima...@home.com> wrote in message
news:LGP86.107423$df5.3...@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com...

> Showing up late in appointments does signifies importance....I don't know
> why...

I believe the idea is that you are so busy with other important matters that
you are late to the "unimportant" ones. It's probably more often a matter
of poor time management...

Randy

[Alan Stepney]

--

"AJ Pascual" <lima...@home.com> wrote in message
news:LGP86.107423$df5.3...@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com...

> Showing up late in appointments does signifies importance....I don't know
> why...
>
>

Showing up late indicates poor travel planning / time management, and IS THE
HEIGHT OF BAD MANNERS.

Al...@alanjstepney.free-online.co.uk

[michael farris]

Alan Stepney wrote:

> --
>
> "AJ Pascual" <lima...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:LGP86.107423$df5.3...@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com...
> > Showing up late in appointments does signifies importance....I don't know
> > why...
>
> Showing up late indicates poor travel planning / time management, and IS THE
> HEIGHT OF BAD MANNERS.

In your culture, which is not universal.
Interestingly I remember at a US university I knew a lot of people from Latin
America (widely known for being lax about exact appointment times) and alot of
Anglos who were majoring in Latin American Studies (on the fringe of what I was
interested in at the time).
Often the roles were reversed, the Anglos would show up a half-hour or so late
for an appointment with a Latino only to find that the Latino had waited
precisely 15 minutes and left (obviously the Latinos' English classes had
stressed the 15-minute rule for US culture, while the Anglos, many of whom had
spent a lot of time in Latin America found more lax times habits less stressful
than compulsive US punctuality). To their credit, the Latino's were never upset
that the Anglos violated the 15 minute rule. Often in making cross-cultural
appointments the parties would establish whether they would use US time or 'hora
latina', which made things go more smoothly.

-mike farris

[Alan Stepney]

"michael farris" <m...@amu.edu.pl> wrote in message
news:3A64283F...@amu.edu.pl...

> In your culture, which is not universal.
>

I have been doing business in the Philippines for many years. If I can
travel half-way round the world to keep an apointment, usually travelling
the day before to ensure I am not late, I cannot view the late arrival of
the person I am meeting as anything other than bad manners, or lousy
organisation.
In either event I prefer to take my business elsewhere. There are planty of
people in numerous countries who want business enough to turn up on time.

[AJ Pascual]

In another case, unannounced visitation provides the host some alibis for
not being culinary prepared....Thus, it is normal for some not to make
scheduled appointments..

This scenario may not work very well in the west..

"Congenital Kano" <jrs...@home.com> wrote in message
news:BOQ86.130225$A06.4...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...

[AJ Pascual]

I agree with you.

But that's Western perspective..

"Alan Stepney" <al...@alanjstepney.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XaS86.2055$I5.29344@stones...

[Chris Blunt]

Not really just a western perspective. Punctuality is important in
Japanese and many other cultures.

"AJ Pascual" <lima...@home.com> wrote:

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

[ren...@aol.com]

What crab mentality? its more like cannibalism We filipinos eat our
fellow filipinos thats why our president gets the mad cow desease.

In article <3A6109AF...@hindiginto.ito>,

[Foolish Mortal]

I'm late for meetings all the time. It says a lot about me. I'm very busy.
All the things you need to tell me in a meeting, I find, could've been typed
up and e-mailed to me or held online.

But I get it. I'm not dumb. We "have" to make use of the large conference
room at least once or twice a week or else the money we're paying for square
feet will just have been wasted. And we don't want to be wasteful.

Riiiiiiiight.

"AJ Pascual" <lima...@home.com> wrote in message

news:bc696.110130$df5.3...@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com...

[Viktoro]

"AJ Pascual" <gold...@apexmail.com> wrote:

>
> But that's Western perspective..
>

Sometimes I think that the Philippines is a Western country; at least
it's highly Westernized in the same sense that Latin America
is "Western." It's partly to do with the Roman Catholic world
perspective and affinity with Western languages like Spanish and
English. I was visiting Thailand and I was in my Filipina aunt's hotel-
apartment which she shared with her Aussie woman boss. The Aussie, who
once lived in the Philippines, remarked that the Philippines is
a "Western" country. I was initially struck by that assertion. But I
suppose that she was right that the Philippines certainly is "Western"
compared with Thailand.

--
Viktoro

http://homestead.deja.com/user.viktoro/

[LeeBat]

Foolish Mortal Wrote:

>I'm late for meetings all the time. It says a lot about me. I'm very busy.
>All the things you need to tell me in a meeting, I find, could've been typed
>up and e-mailed to me or held online.

Ha, I worked for a large corp and spent far too much time in meetings.

Finally, every time I left for a meeting I'd tell my secretary to page me in 15
mins (we had a PA system). When the page came, I'd call her to get the message.

If it was a *good* meeting, I'd say "Well, tell them I'll get back to them
ASAP.", hang up and return to my seat. If it was a *bad* meeting, I'd say
"Sorry, guys, client has a big problem. Gotta run."

Not only did I get out of a lot of BS meetings but got the companywide rep as
being Very Important since I was paged so frequently.

LeeBat
a man does....

[Bill and Lorna]

Even though I know Michael's right about doing business in the Philippines I
must say that business for business sake is probably better done in
Indonesia for similiar product lines. But doing business also includes the
pleasure of visiting another country and it's hard to find a more enjoyable
place to enjoy your visit. It's another reason why so many pinoys also leave
the country to make money, come home and enjoy life until they spend it and
leave the country again. It seems far fewer Filipinos than, for example,
Chinese can be successful in business. But the same is true for many other
nationalities also. Business success seems to include certain of the older
cultures of people like the Jewish, Chinese, Koreans, Moslems and Italians.

"Alan Stepney" <al...@alanjstepney.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2i096.2413$I5.34479@stones...

[Dirty Sick Pig]

expatau...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> So sorry about the tribal part, I meant...Southern relaxed agricultural
> vs. Northern , tense, industrial mentalities...

What the fuck are you talking about, ExFart? What are your points of
reference for your fucking north and south?

EmbalmerPig
Formalin, anyone?