Why Don't Filipinos Born or Raised in the US Know How To Speak Tagalog?
XGuyJ
Rick Gonzalez
Panggalatog, Bicol, etc. etc.
Tagalog is not the only Filipino language.
"XGuyJ" <john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1f8e3576.01083...@posting.google.com...
Luigi de Guzman
street, etc. every day.
Because all the voices on our radios and televisions speak English.
Or perhaps because it's not considered a 'prestige' language. You don't get
any extra respect from your friends (if you're in a largely anglo
environment) by knowing Tagalog.
In my case, my Tagalog is horribly accented and broken--but this is for a
very odd reason. When I was a little boy, before we left the Philippines,
my mother and father spoke English to me almost exclusively, seeking to get
me 'native' in the language. They didn't want me carrying the stigma of a
heavy Tagalog accent in my English, and figured that my Tagalog would come
naturally once I'd started going to school. It might have done, but we left
the Philippines when I was four years old, and I've been 'abroad' ever
since. I picked up my tagalog slowly (mostly through my lolo & lola and
trying to overhear my mother and father talking), and I'm happy that I have
what I have--I can follow tagalog tv and radio but I can't read the
papers...
Luigi
eternal expat
Novus Ordo Seclorum Signum de Volpus Marina
> Why don't US Born Filipinos know how to speak Tagalog?
Ang iba alam na ...Pero yung, *generalization* mo, ob
US Born Filipinos is, how do I say? A non-issue, and
nothing but a troll, troll : )
- Dominic
--
Copyright © 2001 Category Five Global Publications
All Rights Reserved
Chris S.
Para bang nakita ko itong tanong dati... ba't paulit-ulit ka? :)
Anyway.. Simple answer - exposure.
--Chris
Novus Ordo Seclorum Signum de Volpus Marina
> Cause maybe their families speak Sugbuanon, Hiligaynon, Ilocano,
> Panggalatog, Bicol, etc. etc. Tagalog is not the only Filipino
> language.
True. When I was young and when listening to the elders speaking
Togalog, which was usually the case and to which point I understood
word-for-word, I noticed that they would purposely switch dialects
(Cebuano, Ilonggo, or Waray-Waray) to throw me off when the conversation
came to a point where they didn't want me to hear something - Later
it reinforced my resolve to understand what at least the expletives
were : )
l8R
- DomBornInManilaRaisedFilipino
--
Copyright Š 2001 Category Five Global Publications
All Rights Reserved
LeeBat
>Why don't US Born Filipinos know how to speak Tagalog?
My generation simply wasn't taught to speak the language. I've never met a
Pinoy of my age group who knew more than few words ..... and mostly cuss words
at that.
The prevailing thoughts of our parents were hey, we're here now, this is where
we're staying, this is where our kids will spend their lives. Why bother
teaching them Tagalog/Cebuano/whatever?
This was also still a time when people were very patriotic about being
Americans .... unlike now. Immigrants wanted to become Americanized as soon as
possible and wanted their kids to grow up in that manner. This was true not
only for Pinoys in that era but most other immigrant groups as well.
LeeBat
still, all us kids could do (and frequently did) a *great* Filipino accent
MariaClara
>My generation simply wasn't taught to speak the language. I've never met a
>Pinoy of my age group who knew more than few words ..... and mostly cuss words
>at that.
>
>The prevailing thoughts of our parents were hey, we're here now, this is where
>we're staying, this is where our kids will spend their lives. Why bother
>teaching them Tagalog/Cebuano/whatever?
>
>This was also still a time when people were very patriotic about being
>Americans .... unlike now. Immigrants wanted to become Americanized as soon as
>possible and wanted their kids to grow up in that manner. This was true not
>only for Pinoys in that era but most other immigrant groups as well.
you know leebag, some people just don't have a clue on what's it like to raise
filipino kids in america... my parents did try to make me speak back in
tagalog, but i refused... i wanted to learn to speak english so i could fit in
with my new friends and classmates... yeah, i simply refused... imagine, you
have this 8 year old kid entering a school full of white folks whom you barely
understand... i mean it's traumatic enough for an american kid entering a new
american school, what more for a poor little cute, sweet, cuddly, innocent, did
i mention ghhorgeous--- immigrant kid entering a new school in a new country who
barely can communicate with anybody!! speaking tagalog to my parents was the
LAST thing on my list tenkyuberrrrrimats!!... my focus was on how fast i can
learn english so i can belong... my parents finally gave up... the only control
they had was to continue speaking to me in tagalog so that i would at least
understand it... can you blame us?? for those people making negative remarks
about filipino kids not speaking their language, try raising one yourself before
judging others... otherwise, shove your comments up your tagalog-speaking
pwets! ;)
mc
pms-ing
Jessica
you know, the kids here in europe, the filipino kids born and raised here, they
all speak the european languages of their adopted country AND tagalog with their
parents. it's not an issue like it is in the states, in fact, it's rather quaint
to hear a filipino boy of 8 speak french or italian or spanish or german ...
then switch rapidly to tagalog when his lola asks him a question.
and, noticing how the subject is just focused on "filipinos ... <yada yada yak>
.. in the u.s. ... <blah blah bleh>" could we just move away from being too
u.s.-centric? i don't tend to relate to some of the issues raised in the states,
and i'm sure those from down-udder would feel the same way too.
i like that we're getting a diversity of filipinos from all over in scf now!
--wabbit
s&m-ing ;b
Chris S.
>to hear a filipino boy of 8 speak french or italian or spanish or german ...
>then switch rapidly to tagalog when his lola asks him a question.
>
Do you consider it rather quaint if a *21* year old does it? :)
--Chris :) :) :)
MariaClara
> yeah! you go girl!
>
> you know, the kids here in europe, the filipino kids born and raised here,
they
> all speak the european languages of their adopted country AND tagalog with
their
> parents. it's not an issue like it is in the states, in fact, it's rather
quaint
> to hear a filipino boy of 8 speak french or italian or spanish or german
...
> then switch rapidly to tagalog when his lola asks him a question.
****************
my hubby has relos in germany who speak german, tagalog, kapampangan and
english! and you know, come to think of it, if my parents raised me in
germany, i'm pretty sure i'd know how to speak tagalog right now... i don't
think they'd easily let it go as they did here in u.s... can't exactly
explain why at the moment... maybe someone could explain it for me cause i'm
just too sleepy right now... ;)
i'm curious about the filipino families living in europe... are the working
filipinos all required to speak the adopted country's language in order to
get a job? do all filipinos speak french, german, italian or other foreign
languages fluently? how do they communicate with their employers?
mc
CuriousInTheMiddleOfTheNight
Chris S.
>think they'd easily let it go as they did here in u.s... can't exactly
>explain why at the moment... maybe someone could explain it for me cause i'm
>just too sleepy right now... ;)
When your parents moved to the US, they probably had a knowledge of English
already since it was taught in the PI.. di ba? Well, if they had gone to
Germany, they wouldn't have had the knowledge of German.. so maybe .... oh
forget it i have no idea what i'm talkign about.. it's 2AM.. heh
Just JT
>
> Why don't US Born Filipinos know how to speak Tagalog?
>
In light of the answers given as to why foreign-born Flips don't speak
Tagalog, it is my duty to translate the traditional song Bahay Kubo:
Bahay Kubo
kahit munti
Ang halaman doon
Ay sari-sari
Hunchback house
Even though in the National Penitentiary
The plants over there
is a mum 'n' pop store
Singkamas at talong
Sigarillas at mani
Sitaw, bataw, patani
Turnips and trousers
Female cigarettes and female <ahem>
Beans: small (Ate V), medium (Ate Ros), large (Ate MC)
Kundol, patola
Upo't kalabasa
At saka mayroon pa
Labanos, mustasa
Earthquake, female mosquito coil
Class idiot sitting down
And then there are more
Washings and "how are you"
Sibuyas, kamatis
Bawang at luya
Sa paligid-ligid
ay puro linga
Onions, tomatoes
Firecrackers and spit
And around and around
is pure snort
--
Just JT
Johnn...@Hotmail.Com
AngDiMarunongMagmahalSaSarilingWika
SanaMagkaHika
MaihianNgPalaka
AtMalunodSaSapa
Chris S.
From: "Just JT"
>Hunchback house
>Even though in the National Penitentiary
>The plants over there
>is a mum 'n' pop store
[snip]
Ihihihihihihihi.. BWAHAHAH..
Elson
Because Tagalog is not widely-spoken in the US.
Jessica
says...
>
>"sabi ni Jessica"
>
>> yeah! you go girl!
>>
>> you know, the kids here in europe, the filipino kids born and raised here,
>they
>> all speak the european languages of their adopted country AND tagalog with
>their
>> parents. it's not an issue like it is in the states, in fact, it's rather
>quaint
>> to hear a filipino boy of 8 speak french or italian or spanish or german
>...
>> then switch rapidly to tagalog when his lola asks him a question.
>****************
>my hubby has relos in germany who speak german, tagalog, kapampangan and
>english! and you know, come to think of it, if my parents raised me in
>germany, i'm pretty sure i'd know how to speak tagalog right now... i don't
>think they'd easily let it go as they did here in u.s... can't exactly
>explain why at the moment... maybe someone could explain it for me cause i'm
>just too sleepy right now... ;)
i think the u.s.'s history has something to do with it. to belong, you had to
abandon your connexion to your past and your former country. you also can't
maintain your culture as it tends to get sucked into a mixture with the rest of
the nationalities who come to the states ... and the mixture tends to produce
and spit out a state-side mixed-up version of "culture".
in order not to stand out as a foreigner in the great u.s. of a., you had to
adopt the all-american way of life and living and speaking.
here in europe, and africa really is far closer to europe than the states ...
you get black people. these real africans maintain their individuality and
culture, walking all over paris sporting their african headgear and colourful
khaftan proudly. speaking their native language without resorting to french
everywhere they go. and of course, you'll get the blacks who adapt to the french
lifestyle and end up dressing in western gear ... several nationalities manage
to co-exist well and integrate.
the french appreciate and value culture, and here it's allowed to florish.
one interesting observation is the french would readily speak to an asian person
who profess to not speaking french well, and they'll try their best to
accommodate the person and speak in english or explain themselves in simple
french. they would not do that readily for a british person - who they insist
will have to speak french in order for them to communicate.
there is this thing with the french and the british ... in fact, with all the
european nationalities, one to the other. they all remember their history well,
and the wars that was fought amongst them.
>
>i'm curious about the filipino families living in europe... are the working
>filipinos all required to speak the adopted country's language in order to
>get a job?
yes, they all try to, but it isn't a necessity when they work. let me explain a
bit ... the filipino community here in europe tends to generally be either
domestic helpers or kitchen/restaurant helps, construction workers, newspaper
delivery guys, etc. if they work in a domestic environment, they'd usually have
employers who can afford their salary, and who tend to belong to the
upper-income bracket of society. these employers will usually have a good grasp
of the english language as most europeans (other than the idiotic brits even
though they're TAUGHT FRENCH in school) will learn the language in school. the
filipinos working for these type of upper management or upper class employers
won't have a difficult time communicating with them.
however, once they're tasked with running errands, like going to the market,
making general purchases, commuting from one place to another and trying to get
their bearings, they will have to at least learn the basics of the language.
you cannot avoid picking up some understanding of the language here.
>do all filipinos speak french, german, italian or other foreign
>languages fluently?
the first generation filipinos will speak it fairly. when their children enter
school, they're somewhat "forced" to learn the language as they help their kids
with their homework. the second generation filipinos are amazingly fluent, and
natural.
>how do they communicate with their employers?
in english. or french. generally, it'll also be a mix of the both.
now, here's where i get to explain something interesting. i have a room-mate and
the househelp for my apartment isn't a filipina but a romanian lady who speaks
terrible french and no english at all. most of the time, as i'm generally left
with telling her what to do, i end up speaking to her in very bad french and
when that fails, resorting to sign language and smiles.
i tell you, there must be something incredible about the way we filipinos
communicate because it's like magic! she tends to understand me far better than
my room-mate who speaks to her in fluent french! neither of them end up
understanding each other at all.
>
>mc
>CuriousInTheMiddleOfTheNight
>
just don't go touching anything i wouldn't.
--wabbit ;{
Jessica
--wabbit
giggling like crazy ;b
Renowl
understand tagalog, cebuano and illongo. Cousins who were born here could
understand it too.
Ryan
If we need to get technical here...
Tagalog is a language. The others were dialects. So, your statement would
have to be false.
And I think you knew what he was alluding to...
"Rick Gonzalez" <rick...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9mogro$er6$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
Ryan
get
> any extra respect from your friends (if you're in a largely anglo
> environment) by knowing Tagalog.
whaaaat? And i guess knowing any other language other than your own would
constitute respect. That makes sense.
Please. Pure anglo-saxon peeps would be surprised that you know any language
other than english anyway. They insult you by saying: "Oh, but you speak
english so well!" Well, yeah, and i can talk and chew gum at the same time,
too. wtf?
> me 'native' in the language. They didn't want me carrying the stigma of
a
> heavy Tagalog accent in my English, and figured that my Tagalog would come
> naturally once I'd started going to school.
stigma? what stigma? It's cute to have a british accent but it's capital
punishment if you roll your r's? "yes, ma'm it's tree o'clock." geeez.
"Luigi de Guzman" <Luigi...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9RPj7.211688$J37.53...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Ryan
else's fault, right?
"MariaClara" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:y3Uj7.118$4z....@www.newsranger.com...
Tansong Isda
> If we need to get technical here...
>
> Tagalog is a language. The others were dialects. So, your statement would
> have to be false.
Nope. it can be called dialect if they can understand each other, like
Bulaceños can understand Batangueños..two dialects of Tagalog. Otherwise, it
is language...to be technical.
Ryan
"Just JT" <Johnn...@Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:3b90...@news.microsoft.com...
Jessica
says...
>
>> Or perhaps because it's not considered a 'prestige' language. You don't
>get
>> any extra respect from your friends (if you're in a largely anglo
>> environment) by knowing Tagalog.
>
>
>whaaaat? And i guess knowing any other language other than your own would
>constitute respect. That makes sense.
>
>Please. Pure anglo-saxon peeps would be surprised that you know any language
>other than english anyway. They insult you by saying: "Oh, but you speak
>english so well!" Well, yeah, and i can talk and chew gum at the same time,
>too. wtf?
i used to get that all the time when i was in england, and i would throw back
this patronizing line and say snobbishly, "your english isn't bad either ..." ;b
>
>> me 'native' in the language. They didn't want me carrying the stigma of
>a
>> heavy Tagalog accent in my English, and figured that my Tagalog would come
>> naturally once I'd started going to school.
>
>stigma? what stigma? It's cute to have a british accent but it's capital
>punishment if you roll your r's? "yes, ma'm it's tree o'clock." geeez.
you should hear how the french massacre the english language :D))))))
just last night ... going through one of paris's numerous parks ... french buddy
says to me ... "zare are many mosticos here, be careful." i'm like, what the
hell is mosticos? a flower? a plant? a tree? "really? where are they?" i ask ...
"you cannot see zhem, but you vill feel zhem soon." i stay quiet pondering this
bit of information, and he continues, "do you get mosticos in asia?" "mosticos?
i don't know. what are they like exactly? can you describe one to me?" "oh, zay
are verrri leetle zhen zay bit. zhen you are verrri ... comment?" and proceeds
to scratch himself. that gave the whole thing away! "MOSQUITOES?!!!!" "yes!
MOSTICOS!" ... "no, MOS-QUI-TOS." ... "MOS-TI-COS!" "nooo. MOS.KEY.TOES." i
repeat slowly, "zis fucking english language!" he responds back absolutely
frustrated and disgusted with speaking english, "we speak french NOW!"
--wabbit ;b
Chris S.
>have to be false.
NGEEEEEK!! NGEEEEEK!!!
Stop that foolish thinking now!!! I mean it!!!
Tagalog is a language!!! So are Bikol, Cebuano, Ilocano, Hiligaynon,
Kapampangan.. etc.!
See, this is dialect:
American: Where's da fuckin' elevator?
British: Where's the bloody lift?
Australian: (uh.. care to fill it in, JT?)
or:
Naga Bikol: Nagkakan ako nin manok asin tinapay.
Legazpi Bikol: Nagkaon ako ki manok buda pan.
And this is language:
Bikol: Siisay an nagduman sa sakong harong ?
Tagalog: Sino ang pumunta aking bahay ?
Cebuano: Kinsay miadto sa akong balay?
Ilocano: Asino ti mapanto iti balayko?
Japanese: Dare ga boku no uchi ni itta no?
French: Qui est allé à ma maison?
Korean: Nuga ne chibe kagesseo?
Get it? :) An American and Brit or a resident of Legazpi and Naga would
understand each other.. but not those from Paris, Seoul, Tokyo, Naga, Manila,
Cebu City, and Vigan! :)
The languages of the Philippines are languages by every criterion except that
they have neither an army nor navy!
I rest my case, your honor.. heheeh.
--Chris
MariaClara
> so it's the parent's fault? well, that's typical. it's always somebody
> else's fault, right?
no ryan, they're not to blame.. i even wrote "can you blame us?" meaning,
in my particular case, can you blame my parents for giving up on me and can
you blame me for refusing as a kid? no you can't... there's no one to
blame... it may not be much to you, but hey i learned to eat all filipino
food, i understand tagalog, i hang out with filipinos, i married a filipino
so i have filipino kids, i revisited the philippines, i even watch those
korny filipino movies, heck i play "tinikling" on my piano, i've read
different filipino books.. but just because i can't speak tagalog, you
think i don't deserve to call myself a filipino?
okay, let me ask you about a different case... i knew a filipina whose
parents brought her up in a white neighborhood... she didn't eat filipino
food, wasn't taught to speak or understand tagalog... she knew nothing about
the philippines... only as an adult, she began to take interest in her
culture but it's too late for her taste buds-- she can't even stand the
smell of fish or patis... who do you think is responsible for not exposing
her to her culture? would you say she or her parents?
mc
PeelingPilosopa
Chris S.
>smell of fish or patis...
I'm in the same boat with this woman. I don't eat most Filipino foods.. heh
--Chris
MariaClara
you know... you're in the right track... i was thinking the same thing...
let's try this again during the day and maybe we'd be able to complete our
thoughts.. ;)
mc
Ina-antokNanaman
>
>
MariaClara
>
> i think the u.s.'s history has something to do with it. to belong, you had
to
> abandon your connexion to your past and your former country. you also
can't
> maintain your culture as it tends to get sucked into a mixture with the
rest of
> the nationalities who come to the states ... and the mixture tends to
produce
> and spit out a state-side mixed-up version of "culture".
okay, now you're making me think... my gulay...i don't have time to think!
;) see, my thinking was more simple like what chris had mentioned at 2
o'clock in the morning... that i probably would know how to speak tagalog
now if i were raised in germany because my parents didn't speak or
understand german at all. and i'd probably end up naturally choosing
tagalog over german to communicate with them simply because it's easier for
us...whereas here in u.s., my parents already knew how to speak and
understand english before we arrived in america, so it was easier for me to
abandon my tagalog and communicate with them in english... i think if my
parents didn't know how to speak or understand english at all, i'd still be
speaking tagalog.... oh hey, so i blame the philippines for my not knowing
how to speak tagalog... i blame them for teaching filipinos the english
language <wink>... ;)
mc
tobecontinued... ;)
Chris S.
>> When your parents moved to the US, they probably had a knowledge of
>English
>> already since it was taught in the PI.. di ba? Well, if they had gone to
>> Germany, they wouldn't have had the knowledge of German.. so maybe .... oh
>> forget it i have no idea what i'm talkign about.. it's 2AM.. heh
>*************
>you know... you're in the right track... i was thinking the same thing...
>let's try this again during the day and maybe we'd be able to complete our
>thoughts.. ;)
Ok it's around 11:30PM and I feel more alert than I will in 3 hours.. hehe
Ok.. hum......my point. What's my point? My point is that if your parents
already learned English in a country where English is the medium of instruction
(i.e. the PI) and they moved to a place that speaks English - then they will
probably speak it!
But say your parents moved to Germany...or Japan... In those places English
isn't spoken as much and not those languages... so they'd probably use Tagalog
more with you. and perhaps English. It depends on how fluent they are in it.
That could be an explanation why 2nd generation Koreans & Hispanics seem to
speak their parents' tongue better than Filipinos do theirs, no?
Just my 2 cents...
--Chris
LeeBat
>"tinanong ni Ryan"
>> so it's the parent's fault? well, that's typical. it's always somebody
>> else's fault, right?
>*************
>no ryan, they're not to blame.. i even wrote "can you blame us?" meaning,
>in my particular case, can you blame my parents for giving up on me and can
>you blame me for refusing as a kid? no you can't... there's no one to
>blame...
Well said, MC. That's about what my response was gonna be. You just saved me
the trouble by answering first (there are advantages to logging on late at
nite).
I only mentioned that Fil-Ams of my generation weren't taught. I don't consider
it anyone's "fault" ..... was merely pointing out those were the prevailing
attitudes of the day.
Somehow, we all seemed to survive. Well, so far anyway.
I don't know that any of us were horribly scarred by not learning the lingo;
thus living the intervening years in abject misery, total poverty and a
complete lack of happiness and fulfillment.
Then again, I would have liked to have gotten laid a little more often but I'm
not sure there's any connectivity here .......
LeeBat
we all have our priorities
Just JT
"LeeBat" <lee...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010903040628...@mb-cg.aol.com...
>
> I only mentioned that Fil-Ams of my generation weren't taught. I don't
consider
> it anyone's "fault" ..... was merely pointing out those were the
prevailing
> attitudes of the day.
The last sentence for the Panatang Makabayan (Oath of Allegiance) reads:
"Sisikapin kong maging isang tunay na Pilipino: sa isip, sa salita, at sa
gawa."
(I will strive to remain a true Filipino: in thoughts, in words and in
deeds.)
Speaking alone does not make one a true Filipino. You gotta think and act
Filipino, too. So what if you ain't fluent with Tagalog. There are other
languages, too. I know a lot of Fil-Ams who are MORE FILIPINO than the
PI-based Flips based on thoughts, words and deeds.
--
Just JT
Johnn...@Hotmail.Com
HowManyOfYouStillRememberTheWholePanatangMakabayanThingy?
Jessica
says...
>
>"sabi ni Jessica"
>>
>> i think the u.s.'s history has something to do with it. to belong, you had
>to
>> abandon your connexion to your past and your former country. you also
>can't
>> maintain your culture as it tends to get sucked into a mixture with the
>rest of
>> the nationalities who come to the states ... and the mixture tends to
>produce
>> and spit out a state-side mixed-up version of "culture".
>************
>okay, now you're making me think... my gulay...i don't have time to think!
>;)
oh but for a moment of peace! i tend to think too much. my mind's like a bloody
washing machine, i've got so much in it and i need to wait till it stops, take
the bits and pieces out, and iron and organise them neatly. don't you hate
chores!
>see, my thinking was more simple like what chris had mentioned at 2
>o'clock in the morning...
seems we're all posting late, eh? i stopped writing this morning at 7, and mind
you, i tend to multi-task, so there's usually 5 things i'm working on
simultaneously.
>that i probably would know how to speak tagalog
>now if i were raised in germany because my parents didn't speak or
>understand german at all. and i'd probably end up naturally choosing
>tagalog over german to communicate with them simply because it's easier for
>us...whereas here in u.s., my parents already knew how to speak and
>understand english before we arrived in america, so it was easier for me to
>abandon my tagalog and communicate with them in english... i think if my
>parents didn't know how to speak or understand english at all, i'd still be
>speaking tagalog.... oh hey, so i blame the philippines for my not knowing
>how to speak tagalog... i blame them for teaching filipinos the english
>language <wink>... ;)
let's see, i grew up in hong kong, my dad spoke to me in english because he
learnt it in the philippines and as we were out of the philippines, and the
lingua franca in asia tends to be english, he resorted to talking to us in that
language to condition us. my mother refused to speak to us in english, and would
speak tagalog to us and my dad. to others, she would speak in english, but she
was really more comfortable with the tagalog language.
we went to school and had to mix with kids from all over asia, but our teachers
spoke to us in english and cantonese. and we had to learn portuguese and french
at the same time (school requirement).
in the playgrounds we had playmates who spoke to us in cantonese and english. we
watched television with programmes dubbed in cantonese, and some american and
british programmes.
we spoke to each other in english, sometimes in cantonese, although my two
younger sisters conversed in nothing but cantonese to each other, and to us
older girls in english.
i generally speak tagalog when i'm with my maid or the yayas, or when i'm with
filipino friends.
you end up learning and speaking the local lingo, but english and tagalog still
plays a dominant role in our lives.
the filipino children here in europe, it's very interesting but you'll see how
their environment conditions them too. when i had the filipino children from
spain on one side, another batch from italy on the other and a third from
france, you could see how they were all inter-acting with each other, and how
they tend to display the traits of the country and the nationality they've
adopted.
the french kids would be very vocal and cerebral ... the spanish ones would be
more fun and into song and dance ... the italians would be taken aback by
everyone and would just sit and watch the french and spanish kids entertain
everyone. it's very interesting to observe. they're so adorable too! i couldn't
stop laughing throughout and we had to go through several takes!
>
>mc
>tobecontinued... ;)
>
--wabbit ;b
by all means, continue please :)
Jessica
>
>From: "MariaClara" ma_c...@yahoo.comCornbee
>
>
>>> When your parents moved to the US, they probably had a knowledge of
>>English
>>> already since it was taught in the PI.. di ba? Well, if they had gone to
>>> Germany, they wouldn't have had the knowledge of German.. so maybe .... oh
>>> forget it i have no idea what i'm talkign about.. it's 2AM.. heh
>>*************
>>you know... you're in the right track... i was thinking the same thing...
>>let's try this again during the day and maybe we'd be able to complete our
>>thoughts.. ;)
>
>Ok it's around 11:30PM and I feel more alert than I will in 3 hours.. hehe
>
>Ok.. hum......my point. What's my point? My point is that if your parents
>already learned English in a country where English is the medium of instruction
>(i.e. the PI) and they moved to a place that speaks English - then they will
>probably speak it!
exactly.
>
>But say your parents moved to Germany...or Japan... In those places English
>isn't spoken as much and not those languages... so they'd probably use Tagalog
>more with you. and perhaps English. It depends on how fluent they are in it.
quite right.
>
>That could be an explanation why 2nd generation Koreans & Hispanics seem to
>speak their parents' tongue better than Filipinos do theirs, no?
oh, you threw me here, chris, you mean to tell me that second generation koreans
and hispanics born and bred in the states speak their parents' language better?
that's interesting.
>
>Just my 2 cents...
>
>--Chris
>
throw in my centimes as well ;b
--wabbit
Chris S.
>oh, you threw me here, chris, you mean to tell me that second >generation
koreans and hispanics born and bred in the states speak >their parents'
language better?
Yes, because their parents speak only Korean and Spanish! So there is a REASON
to speak those languages. And not just those, but Russians, Vietnamese,
Cambodians, and whatever else we have here.
With Filipinos, they see that their parents use English extensively, so they
think "Oh, my parents speak English anyway, my classmates speaks English, the
TV speaks English... so I'll just speak English!" There's no reason for them
to use Tagalog.
And this is one of the elements in having your child be bi or multilingual-
give them a reason to speak the language.
For me, my parents came to the states when they were around 10 years old... So
they speak Tagalog and English (non-Pinoy accented) fluently. They use English
a lot, which is why for the first 18 years of my life balubaluktot ang Tagalog
ko... hehe.. I had no reason to speak straight-out Tagalog to my parents, and
still don't... though I use it sometimes. I use it now with older relatives a
lot, however.
It's 11:51AM .. and I'm thinking much clearly.. so HAH. ;)
--Chris
MariaClara
>
>don't you hate
> chores!
oh don't mention chores... if i only had a maid or yaya for my kids... make
that hubby too! :).. i could just imagine all the things i would be doing
right now... ;)
> seems we're all posting late, eh? i stopped writing this morning at 7, and
mind
> you, i tend to multi-task, so there's usually 5 things i'm working on
> simultaneously.
************
so i noticed... i'm usually in bed no later than 10pm... i must haveat
least 8 hrs of byuti sleep... otherwise, i won't be able to function the
next day.. ;)
>
> you end up learning and speaking the local lingo, but english and tagalog
still
> plays a dominant role in our lives.
************
yeah it's just the natural thing to do... speak what you're most comfortable
with... growing up, i felt more comfortable speaking english cause everyone
around me spoke english... my cousins, friends, school, tv programs,
everything's in english... my parents were more comfortable speaking in
tagalog so they did... same with my relatives... no one really pushed us to
speak tagalog... they understood our english and it was fine if we spoke
back in english... it seems to be the norm here with filipino families...
some made comments here and there but they didn't really push further...
like leebag wrote, there wasn't a great need to learn to speak tagalog...
but i think it would help if the kids at least understood it... that way,
they won't feel left out if they're with a group of rude tagalog speakers...
;)
most mexican, vietnamese and chinese kids here all grow up speaking their
languages to their parents... there goes one advantage of not being
required to learn english in their countries... kids end up retaining their
language while they live in other countries... but the 2nd generation might
be another story... i studied spanish for several years and i'm sure if i
hung out with latinos i'd be fluent in spanish right now.. but i didn't... i
hung out with filipinos... and even my tagalog-speaking friends didn't mind
me replying in english while they spoke to me in tagalog and english... it's
something that's accepted by most filipinos here... it just happens
naturally, not intentionally... with my spanish, unfortunately, i've
forgotten most of it due to lack of practice... the high schools offered
japanese, french, cantonese, spanish but they didn't offer tagalog which is
unfortunate 'cause then i wouldn't have wasted all those years studying
spanish... tagalog would have been more useful for me... they only offered
tagalog in some colleges....
>
> the filipino children here in europe, it's very interesting but you'll see
how
> their environment conditions them too. when i had the filipino children
from
> spain on one side, another batch from italy on the other and a third from
> france, you could see how they were all inter-acting with each other, and
how
> they tend to display the traits of the country and the nationality they've
> adopted.
*************
here kids tend to segregate, not so much in grade school but as they reach
jr or high school... you see groups of blacks, filipinos, mexicans, whites,
chinese... sometimes you'll see some integration but generally, they tend to
separate themselves from other groups...
>
> the french kids would be very vocal and cerebral ... the spanish ones
would be
> more fun and into song and dance ...
**************
i live in a predominantly white city but my block seems to be a good mixture
of everything... when my spanish neighbors would hold parties in their
backyard.. oh it's like a big fiesta... loud spanish music, loud singing,
talking and laughter... they know how to hold a party! and then there's my
filipino neighbors... when they hold parties you see tons of cars parked
outside, you can hear their trying-hard-to-sing voices echo from their
karaokes machines.. and then they'll have their garage door halfway open and
you can see several square tables set up for their majhong sessions and this
would last through the night... you'll see them in the same exact postion
the following morning... ;) our vietnamese neighbors are a little more
quiet when they hold parties--- the adults, i mean.. but their kids, oh my
gulay there would be a gazillion kids playing in their front yard.. and
they're all first cousins! now our black neighbors, when they hold parties
they're pretty quiet... only one time when their teenager held a grad party
that it got a little noisy outside with the teenagers... but that seems
almost expected... and then we have a middle eastern family who never seems
to have parties now that i think of it... wonder why.. ;) so my kids
plays outside with a good mix of people in the neighborhood... but outside
my block is a different story... ;)
mc
LoveThisDayOff
MariaClara
> >Ok it's around 11:30PM and I feel more alert than I will in 3 hours..
hehe
good thing jessica replied to your post or i would have never found out that
i accidentally killfiled you :( and by trying to unkillfile you, i
accidentally killfiled jessica.. grrrr... and yes, i slept good last night
so it ain't that awright.. ;) i finally got it straightened out so...
welcome back... ;)
> >
> >But say your parents moved to Germany...or Japan... In those places
English
> >isn't spoken as much and not those languages... so they'd probably use
Tagalog
> >more with you. and perhaps English. It depends on how fluent they are in
it.
***********
exactly what i was thinkin'... and thank gawd i didn't need history to
explain that one... but hey, i'm relearning my history from my kids'
homework so give me time.. ;)
> >That could be an explanation why 2nd generation Koreans & Hispanics seem
to
> >speak their parents' tongue better than Filipinos do theirs, no?
>
> oh, you threw me here, chris, you mean to tell me that second generation
koreans
> and hispanics born and bred in the states speak their parents' language
better?
************
better than the 2nd generation filipinos can speak theirs...yeah.... it's
true... and it makes sense why...
mc
Jessica
says...
>
>"sabi ni Jessica"
>>
>>don't you hate
>> chores!
>*********
>oh don't mention chores... if i only had a maid or yaya for my kids... make
>that hubby too! :).. i could just imagine all the things i would be doing
>right now... ;)
i have to say i was thoroughly spoilt in asia. never had to do the dishes there
and could just focus on my work. here, help comes twice a week. the rest of the
days, i try to keep everything in order :) and i'm so thingy about keeping
everything in its place, neat and orderly.
it's really funny because no one believes i can actually do housework as they
think i wouldn't do anything to break a manicured nail (flaming deep hot red and
dangerous is how i'm keeping it these days), but my lola taught me well.
i tell you, a woman's work is really never done! time is such a precious
commodity. to unwind
>
>> seems we're all posting late, eh? i stopped writing this morning at 7, and
>mind
>> you, i tend to multi-task, so there's usually 5 things i'm working on
>> simultaneously.
>************
>so i noticed... i'm usually in bed no later than 10pm... i must haveat
>least 8 hrs of byuti sleep... otherwise, i won't be able to function the
>next day.. ;)
>>
i tend to sleep an average of 2-4 hours. i get to indulge some days, and then
i'm out for at least 8 hours.
>
>> you end up learning and speaking the local lingo, but english and tagalog
>still
>> plays a dominant role in our lives.
>************
>yeah it's just the natural thing to do... speak what you're most comfortable
>with... growing up, i felt more comfortable speaking english cause everyone
>around me spoke english... my cousins, friends, school, tv programs,
>everything's in english... my parents were more comfortable speaking in
>tagalog so they did... same with my relatives... no one really pushed us to
>speak tagalog... they understood our english and it was fine if we spoke
>back in english... it seems to be the norm here with filipino families...
it was the same for us in hong kong. my mother spoke to us in tagalog but we
answered her in english. my mom's quite comfortable conversing with us in
english, but she prefers the familiarity of our language. and i'm thankful she
spoke it to us. i understand tagalog far better than i speak or write it.
>some made comments here and there but they didn't really push further...
>like leebag wrote, there wasn't a great need to learn to speak tagalog...
>but i think it would help if the kids at least understood it... that way,
>they won't feel left out if they're with a group of rude tagalog speakers...
>;)
all my life i have to honestly say i've never come across a rude filipino unless
that person was really angry and ready to fight. then you'd hear all the swear
words come out.
>
>most mexican, vietnamese and chinese kids here all grow up speaking their
>languages to their parents... there goes one advantage of not being
>required to learn english in their countries... kids end up retaining their
>language while they live in other countries... but the 2nd generation might
>be another story... i studied spanish for several years and i'm sure if i
>hung out with latinos i'd be fluent in spanish right now.. but i didn't... i
>hung out with filipinos...
i never hung out with filipinos until i was much older. i was always with a mix
of asian, mainly chinese, and brits, but usually the eurasian ones.
>and even my tagalog-speaking friends didn't mind
>me replying in english while they spoke to me in tagalog and english... it's
>something that's accepted by most filipinos here... it just happens
>naturally, not intentionally... with my spanish, unfortunately, i've
>forgotten most of it due to lack of practice...
that's an important factor. practice does make perfect. don't you hate cliches!
:D
>the high schools offered
>japanese, french, cantonese, spanish but they didn't offer tagalog which is
>unfortunate 'cause then i wouldn't have wasted all those years studying
>spanish... tagalog would have been more useful for me... they only offered
>tagalog in some colleges....
no kidding! you get tagalog taught in an american college! that's amazing.
>
>>
>> the filipino children here in europe, it's very interesting but you'll see
>how
>> their environment conditions them too. when i had the filipino children
>from
>> spain on one side, another batch from italy on the other and a third from
>> france, you could see how they were all inter-acting with each other, and
>how
>> they tend to display the traits of the country and the nationality they've
>> adopted.
>*************
>here kids tend to segregate, not so much in grade school but as they reach
>jr or high school... you see groups of blacks, filipinos, mexicans, whites,
>chinese... sometimes you'll see some integration but generally, they tend to
>separate themselves from other groups...
>
that generally happens to children. i was too much of a bookworm to really
belong to any "group" ... and would flit from one to another easily. i think i
was the only one accepted that way :)
>>
>> the french kids would be very vocal and cerebral ... the spanish ones
>would be
>> more fun and into song and dance ...
>**************
>i live in a predominantly white city but my block seems to be a good mixture
>of everything... when my spanish neighbors would hold parties in their
>backyard.. oh it's like a big fiesta... loud spanish music, loud singing,
>talking and laughter... they know how to hold a party! and then there's my
>filipino neighbors... when they hold parties you see tons of cars parked
>outside, you can hear their trying-hard-to-sing voices echo from their
>karaokes machines.. and then they'll have their garage door halfway open and
>you can see several square tables set up for their majhong sessions and this
>would last through the night... you'll see them in the same exact postion
>the following morning... ;) our vietnamese neighbors are a little more
>quiet when they hold parties--- the adults, i mean.. but their kids, oh my
>gulay there would be a gazillion kids playing in their front yard.. and
>they're all first cousins! now our black neighbors, when they hold parties
>they're pretty quiet... only one time when their teenager held a grad party
>that it got a little noisy outside with the teenagers... but that seems
>almost expected... and then we have a middle eastern family who never seems
>to have parties now that i think of it... wonder why.. ;) so my kids
>plays outside with a good mix of people in the neighborhood... but outside
>my block is a different story... ;)
>
i think the kids here tend to segregate according to "social" status. or at
least the parents "organize" it that way. it's very subtle, but you hear of it
from the children themselves.
>
>mc
>LoveThisDayOff
>
--wabbit :)
could do with at least a holiday this year! but no. <sigh>
Chris S.
>i accidentally killfiled you :(
Gee whilikers... at what time of day was this tomfoolery committed!?!? hehehe
--Chris
Kano
> Why don't US Born Filipinos know how to speak Tagalog?
What is your point? Your question answered itself. They are
Americans thus speak English. Next I suppose you are going to ask why
I don't speak German even though I was born in the U.S. How long does
it take until they stop being Filipinos? Why are you expecting
something from ethnic Filipinos that you wouldn't expect from others.
Kano
Seven generations in America has something to do with it too.
Rick Gonzalez
the difference between Portugese and Spanish or between Tagalog and
Sugbuanon. Or between Cantonese and Mandarin. I can.
And yes I do know what other reasons he is after, and there are tons of
replies that will answer that better than I.
"Ryan" <rjz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:y0yk7.2490$ln4.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Viktoro
> my parents did try to make me speak back in
> tagalog, but i refused... i wanted to learn to speak english
> so i could fit in
> with my new friends and classmates... yeah, i simply refused
Bata pa ako noong dumating kami ng pamilya ko dito sa malayong bansa
ng Kanada. Ngayon balubaloktot na ang Tagalog ko kasi
pa-ingles-ingles ako e. Parang may kalawang ang pagka-Pilipino ko.
Parang ibang tao na ako ngayon.
Iyan ang kalawang. Sa katotohanan hindi na ako nagsasalita ng
Tagalog, puro Ingles na. Ganoon din ako pagnagsasalita ako sa mga
magulang ko. Ang mga kapatid ko ay pa-ingles-ingles din. Nasanay na.
Bakit kaya ganoon ang mga bagong henerasyon na Pinoy sa dayuhang
bansa; nawawala ang pagka-Pilipino at hindi na nag-tatagalog. Ang
pananagalog ba ay Pilipino? Parang ang pagtingin ko sa mundo ay hindi
na Pilipino. Aywan ko ba.
--Viktoro
Pei Qi Xu
"Jessica" <jessica...@altavista.fr> wrote in message
news:BXck7.837$4z....@www.newsranger.com...
| In article <VT0k7.36882$sa.19...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>, MariaClara
| says...
| >
| >"sabi ni Jessica"
| >
| >> yeah! you go girl!
| >>
| >> you know, the kids here in europe, the filipino kids born and raised
here,
| >they
| >> all speak the european languages of their adopted country AND tagalog
with
| >their
| >> parents. it's not an issue like it is in the states, in fact, it's
rather
| >quaint
| >> to hear a filipino boy of 8 speak french or italian or spanish or
german
| >...
| >> then switch rapidly to tagalog when his lola asks him a question.
| >****************
| >my hubby has relos in germany who speak german, tagalog, kapampangan and
| >english! and you know, come to think of it, if my parents raised me in
| >germany, i'm pretty sure i'd know how to speak tagalog right now... i
don't
| >think they'd easily let it go as they did here in u.s... can't exactly
| >explain why at the moment... maybe someone could explain it for me cause
i'm
| >just too sleepy right now... ;)
|
to
| abandon your connexion to your past and your former country. you also
can't
| maintain your culture as it tends to get sucked into a mixture with the
rest of
| the nationalities who come to the states ... and the mixture tends to
produce
| and spit out a state-side mixed-up version of "culture".
|
to
| adopt the all-american way of life and living and speaking.
|
| here in europe, and africa really is far closer to europe than the states
...
| you get black people. these real africans maintain their individuality and
| culture, walking all over paris sporting their african headgear and
colourful
| khaftan proudly. speaking their native language without resorting to
french
| everywhere they go. and of course, you'll get the blacks who adapt to the
french
| lifestyle and end up dressing in western gear ... several nationalities
manage
| to co-exist well and integrate.
|
| the french appreciate and value culture, and here it's allowed to florish.
|
| one interesting observation is the french would readily speak to an asian
person
| who profess to not speaking french well, and they'll try their best to
| accommodate the person and speak in english or explain themselves in
simple
| french. they would not do that readily for a british person - who they
insist
| will have to speak french in order for them to communicate.
|
| there is this thing with the french and the british ... in fact, with all
the
| european nationalities, one to the other. they all remember their history
well,
| and the wars that was fought amongst them.
|
| >
| >i'm curious about the filipino families living in europe... are the
working
| >filipinos all required to speak the adopted country's language in order
to
| >get a job?
|
| yes, they all try to, but it isn't a necessity when they work. let me
explain a
| bit ... the filipino community here in europe tends to generally be either
| domestic helpers or kitchen/restaurant helps, construction workers,
newspaper
| delivery guys, etc. if they work in a domestic environment, they'd usually
have
| employers who can afford their salary, and who tend to belong to the
| upper-income bracket of society. these employers will usually have a good
grasp
| of the english language as most europeans (other than the idiotic brits
even
| though they're TAUGHT FRENCH in school) will learn the language in school.
the
| filipinos working for these type of upper management or upper class
employers
| won't have a difficult time communicating with them.
|
| however, once they're tasked with running errands, like going to the
market,
| making general purchases, commuting from one place to another and trying
to get
| their bearings, they will have to at least learn the basics of the
language.
|
| you cannot avoid picking up some understanding of the language here.
|
| >do all filipinos speak french, german, italian or other foreign
| >languages fluently?
|
| the first generation filipinos will speak it fairly. when their children
enter
| school, they're somewhat "forced" to learn the language as they help their
kids
| with their homework. the second generation filipinos are amazingly fluent,
and
| natural.
|
| >how do they communicate with their employers?
|
| in english. or french. generally, it'll also be a mix of the both.
|
| now, here's where i get to explain something interesting. i have a
room-mate and
| the househelp for my apartment isn't a filipina but a romanian lady who
speaks
| terrible french and no english at all. most of the time, as i'm generally
left
| with telling her what to do, i end up speaking to her in very bad french
and
| when that fails, resorting to sign language and smiles.
|
| i tell you, there must be something incredible about the way we filipinos
| communicate because it's like magic! she tends to understand me far better
than
| my room-mate who speaks to her in fluent french! neither of them end up
| understanding each other at all.
| >
| >mc
| >CuriousInTheMiddleOfTheNight
| >
| just don't go touching anything i wouldn't.
| --wabbit ;{
|
WOW, that means that she's gonna be touching everything!!!!!!!!
Pei Qi Xu
WOW, you're even cheaper then they said you were. I was told that you'd do
anything for a peso.
| --wabbit
|
|
Luigi de Guzman
>
> Please. Pure anglo-saxon peeps would be surprised that you know any
language
> other than english anyway. They insult you by saying: "Oh, but you speak
> english so well!" Well, yeah, and i can talk and chew gum at the same
time,
> too. wtf?
But it's no great plus to them that you speak anything else other than
English. If you conduct most of your life with them, then you begin to lose
Tagalog, as the need for it diminishes. If you're more comfortable in
English anyway, and only your folks speak Tagalog, why keep the language up
at all?
Think about it--why don't many Italian-Americans speak Italian anymore?
>
> > me 'native' in the language. They didn't want me carrying the stigma of
> a
> > heavy Tagalog accent in my English, and figured that my Tagalog would
come
> > naturally once I'd started going to school.
>
> stigma? what stigma? It's cute to have a british accent but it's capital
> punishment if you roll your r's? "yes, ma'm it's tree o'clock." geeez.
Like it or not, it is.
My accent is (was?) mostly Filipino, anyway, but milder than that of my
cousins. For my parents it was important that I get my English right, so
that's what I got from them--most of the time. I knew I was in trouble for
sure when I got told off in Tagalog.
I would say that English (American or British, depending on the person with
whom I'm speaking) is my primary language, Spanish my second (formative
years in Guatemala and Honduras, and an atrociously *promdi* Honduran accent
in Spanish), Tagalog a distant third, and Latin a fourth. That ranking is
based on how many of my friends (not family) speak it with me.
I don't know how else to explain myself, my life, or my upbringing. I am in
the limbo of being the perpetual expatriate. I can't apologise for it, nor
can I atone for it.
-Luigi
MariaClara
> Bata pa ako noong dumating kami ng pamilya ko dito sa malayong bansa
> ng Kanada. Ngayon balubaloktot na ang Tagalog ko kasi
> pa-ingles-ingles ako e. Parang may kalawang ang pagka-Pilipino ko.
***********
biktor, kung kinakalawang ka bumalik ka sa pinas at baka matetano pa kami
dito <kindat>....
you know bik, that's the life of immigrants... it is an advantage to
assimilate into the majority culture... learn how to speak their language or
else settle for entry-level menial jobs...
kids are faced with difficult choices... either maintain their native
culture or abandon it for the new host culture in order to avoid
discrimination in school... like it or not, when you enter a foreign
school, your looks alone becomes your handicap, next is your accent... get
rid of it and you become one of the boys... ;)
> Parang ibang tao na ako ngayon.
**********
compared to when?? how were you before? who knows, you might have turned
out a
better person than if you were raised in the philippines... but why dwell on
the unknown... me personally, i think i would have been totally screwed up
in the philippines.. for one, i hated all my teachers... favoritism was so
apparent towards the kano kids it was sickening... at least here in america,
teachers treat students a little more fairly...
>
> Iyan ang kalawang. Sa katotohanan hindi na ako nagsasalita ng
> Tagalog, puro Ingles na. Ganoon din ako pagnagsasalita ako sa mga
> magulang ko. Ang mga kapatid ko ay pa-ingles-ingles din. Nasanay na.
> Bakit kaya ganoon ang mga bagong henerasyon na Pinoy sa dayuhang
> bansa; nawawala ang pagka-Pilipino at hindi na nag-tatagalog.
**************
uhh because the majority speaks english?? my dear, you are stressing over
something that our environment dictates and have no control of... maybe it
would help if
you visit the philippines for several months or so para hindi ka na
kalawangin.... that's probably the only solution i'm afraid...
> Ang
> pananagalog ba ay Pilipino? Parang ang pagtingin ko sa mundo ay hindi
> na Pilipino. Aywan ko ba.
***********
okay, why don't we reverse this... what if a filipino asks "are you a
filipino?" and i answer "no, i'm not filipino, i'm american"... oh boy, i
could just see the pinoys' eyebrows rise above their heads! they won't
accept that either... heck are we or aren't we??
mc
TobeOrTutubi
>
> --Viktoro
Viktoro
>
> you know bik, that's the life of immigrants... it is an advantage to
> assimilate into the majority culture... learn how to speak their language or
> else settle for entry-level menial jobs...
>
> kids are faced with difficult choices... either maintain their native
> culture or abandon it for the new host culture in order to avoid
> discrimination in school... like it or not, when you enter a foreign
> school, your looks alone becomes your handicap, next is your accent... get
> rid of it and you become one of the boys... ;)
>
Well, MC, there are some decent Chinese and East Indians, with heavy
accents and very foreign looks, who make it in mainstream North
American society as great engineers, doctors, et cetera. In locales
with heavy immigrant populations, foreign accents and looks are
"normal." Anyway, I think an accent is cool... Being different is
cool...
The question is one's esteem about one's own culture. Do we all turn
into conformists? We can look at East Indians who still don their own
traditional costumes with pride. We can see the Chinese and Hispanics
creating a snowballing effect in their insistence to use their
language against the ocean of English-speakers. They are robust
cultures. Ang Pinoy ay masyadong conformist... este, "accomodating"
pala.
--Viktoro
Ferdinand Solis
> accents and very foreign looks, who make it in mainstream North
> American society as great engineers, doctors, et cetera.
They make it only as professionals. Outside of their profession
they're not as accepted, kind of like when Nat King Cole became the
devil himself after a show has ended. At least this is what I see in
academia.
>In locales
> with heavy immigrant populations, foreign accents and looks are
> "normal." Anyway, I think an accent is cool.
What I see all the time is that accent is "cool" as long as it's
Scandinavian accent or French or German or Irish. Spanish accent is
cool only when the speaker looks like what's his name Melanie
Griffith's husband Antonio Bandonado.
It's easy for you to say that accent is cool b/c you've never had it.
You think East Indians think it's cool when they see Abu do his thing
in "The Simpsons," a mainstream TV show?
Onkel Petey
> i think the u.s.'s history has something to do with it. to belong, you had to
> abandon your connexion to your past and your former country. you also can't
> maintain your culture as it tends to get sucked into a mixture with the rest of
> the nationalities who come to the states ... and the mixture tends to produce
> and spit out a state-side mixed-up version of "culture".
That is what makes the US a superpower. Where else can you take every language on
the face of the planet, throw them together, mix them around over a course of a
little over 200 years and call it "English"?
--
"There are two sides to every story ... and then there is the Truth." - Court T.V.
MariaClara
> Well, MC, there are some decent Chinese and East Indians, with heavy
> accents and very foreign looks, who make it in mainstream North
> American society as great engineers, doctors, et cetera.
okay... let's take a look at the east indians... i've noticed that you'll
usually find the heavy-accented ones in a technical environment... they're
either some hard core engineers or scientists... they are hired for their
brains--- not so much on how they can effectively communicate (and hired
only because they are cheaper than the locals)... their work or technical
data or drawings or prototypes or what have you speak for themselves... they
don't need to speak much... they're not usually exposed to clients or
heck---ANYbody for that matter unless they're also engineers and they have
all these numbers to throw around to get their points across... have you
ever heard a technical presentation from an east indian engineer? the first
time i met one of our clients who was an indian scientist, i swear, the
whole hour all i heard was "krrrreprrrrrri krrrrrokrrrrra prrrra prrrrrri
prrra krrrrrrrre" luckily he was pointing at the drawings and i managed to
figure out what he was trying to say... but the japanese engineers next to
me just stared at him with their mouths open... didn't catch one word... i
had to give them my written report to take back with them to japan... now i
wonder what other high paying jobs american companies would offer them? it
seems that the non-technical indians who speak little or no english are
forced to become self-employed... you'll see a lot of indians owning hotels,
restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, 7-11s :) etc.. they are
discriminated in the american workplace so they become their own boss... and
same thing with the chinese, vietnamese and mexicans... if they want to earn
more, the only choice they seem to have is to open their own business...
>In locales
> with heavy immigrant populations, foreign accents and looks are
> "normal." Anyway, I think an accent is cool... Being different is
> cool...
**************
try convincing the americans... i have a friend who wasn't hired because
the interviewer told a 2nd interviewer that "his accent would be a
problem".... the 2nd interviewer was a friend of his and told him about the
comment... oh i have more stories...the americans tend to target mostly
asians with heavy accents... but i think they find thick filipino accent a
lot more pleasant sounding than other heavy asian accents... because they
can actually understand them... ;)
>
> The question is one's esteem about one's own culture. Do we all turn
> into conformists? We can look at East Indians who still don their own
> traditional costumes with pride.
*************
costumes... i don't think being in america has anything to do with this...
let's go back to their native roots... in india, what clothes do they
normally wear? most women wear colorful saris complete with huge fancy
jewelries and tilak on their foreheads and hindu men wear their turbans...
this is the norm for them... now let's fly over to the philippines? what
do most filipinos wear? you don't see women walking around with maria clara
dresses and men donning barong tagalogs when they buy suka in the sari-sari
store... they prefer to wear clothes "meyd en da yu es ey"! or fake european
designer brands ;) so when they migrate to other countries and they bring
along their traditions... you'll see indian women in saris and pinoys in---
nikes! :) so before you question the filipinos' "pagka-pilipino" in
america, you should start questioning the traditions they practice in the
philippines first... that's where the assimilation begins, not here in
america....
>We can see the Chinese and Hispanics
> creating a snowballing effect in their insistence to use their
> language against the ocean of English-speakers. They are robust
> cultures.
*************
only the 1st and 2nd generation... the 3rd you'll notice have assimilated...
> Ang Pinoy ay masyadong conformist... este, "accomodating"
> pala.
*************
well i always see the advantages in it... i'd rather look at the glass half
full than half empty...
mc
PreferGlassFullofHaloHalo
>
> --Viktoro
Just JT
>
> Bata pa ako noong dumating kami ng pamilya ko dito sa malayong bansa
> ng Kanada. Ngayon balubaloktot na ang Tagalog ko kasi
> pa-ingles-ingles ako e. Parang may kalawang ang pagka-Pilipino ko.
> Parang ibang tao na ako ngayon.
You young expats make a big a deal of nothing. When you move, you acquire
new knowledge and you lose old traditions. Such is a fact of life.
When my grandfather moved to Manila from Abra province, he expected his
descendants to lose some of their Ilocano-ness. When my mum migrated to
Manila from Pampanga, she expected her kids to lose some of their
Kapampangan-ness. Here I am, born and raised in QC and could hardly speak
Kapampangan nor Ilocano. I am fluent in Tagalog 'cause laking QC si aqui.
I can always learn more Kapampangan tacshapu or Ilocano Ukininana if I want
to. It's really no big deal. But I still enjoy Ilocano cuisine as much as
Kapampangan cuisine. Hey, if it's free, I'll eat it.
--
Just JT
Johnn...@Hotmail.Com
Doesn'tMakeMolehillsIntoMountainProvinces
Clueless Joe
ma_c...@yahoo.comCornbeef says...
No worse than any other immigrant group. A heavy accent is a hinderance no
matter where and what the language. The impression people get is that someone
is not particularly bright if they can't speak the lingo. Look at Dubya.
I once knew a lovely Korean woman with several advance degrees who, in Korean,
was quite well spoken. Unfortunately in English she sounded more like "...me
love you long time." It's sad when you think about it but the U.S. is a
marketing culture and image is king.
One of my customers rejected their previous engineer because he was East Indian
and his accent was too thick for them to understand. He's a helluva nice guy
and knows his stuff but they couldn't get beyond his accent (and this isn't in
the U.S. of A.). Now they have me...mediocre, speak their language somewhat,
but hey...I have that 'merikun twang...
>>In locales
>> with heavy immigrant populations, foreign accents and looks are
>> "normal." Anyway, I think an accent is cool... Being different is
>> cool...
>**************
>try convincing the americans... i have a friend who wasn't hired because
>the interviewer told a 2nd interviewer that "his accent would be a
>problem".... the 2nd interviewer was a friend of his and told him about the
>comment... oh i have more stories...the americans tend to target mostly
>asians with heavy accents... but i think they find thick filipino accent a
>lot more pleasant sounding than other heavy asian accents... because they
>can actually understand them... ;)
>
That's cuz Filipinos sound so cute with that sing-songy accent! And the ones
from the deep provinces sound kinda Puerto Rican and we're already used to
them! I really think it depends on one's native language as to which accents
sound 'cool'. Me, for one, get an immediate 'rise' whenever I hear a French
girl speaking English with that oh-so-cute French accent. Thai women, on the
other hand, almost give me a headache with their accents and I don't know why.
Clueless
MariaClara
>
>I once knew a lovely Korean woman with several advance degrees who, in Korean,
>was quite well spoken. Unfortunately in English she sounded more like "...me
>love you long time." It's sad when you think about it but the U.S. is a
>marketing culture and image is king.
oh yeah.. they won't hire you because of your thick accent but if you're their
customer, mama mia they go through great lengths in providing you applications
or forms and brochures in tagalog, spanish, japanese, russian etc... oh they're
VERY accomodating to non-english speakers when it comes to profits... ;)
>
>One of my customers rejected their previous engineer because he was East Indian
>and his accent was too thick for them to understand. He's a helluva nice guy
>and knows his stuff but they couldn't get beyond his accent (and this isn't in
>the U.S. of A.). Now they have me...mediocre, speak their language somewhat,
>but hey...I have that 'merikun twang...
****************
there was a point when all my clients specified that all communications go
through me... they'd rather not speak to the japanese engineers directly unless
it was absolutely necessary... imagine, without me the pentium chips wouldn't
exist <wink><wink>....
>
>That's cuz Filipinos sound so cute with that sing-songy accent! And the ones
>from the deep provinces sound kinda Puerto Rican and we're already used to
>them! I really think it depends on one's native language as to which accents
>sound 'cool'. Me, for one, get an immediate 'rise' whenever I hear a French
>girl speaking English with that oh-so-cute French accent. Thai women, on the
>other hand, almost give me a headache with their accents and I don't know why.
***********
i like the french accent but not the men... there's something dooffus abt
them... ;) but i like listening to the spanish accent of penelope cruz or
antonio banderas or people from spain... it sounds kinda sexy me thinks...
mc
MarkedByZorro
Clueless Joe
says...
>
>"sabi ni Clueless Joe:"
>>
>>I once knew a lovely Korean woman with several advance degrees who, in
Korean,
>>was quite well spoken. Unfortunately in English she sounded more like "...me
>>love you long time." It's sad when you think about it but the U.S. is a
>>marketing culture and image is king.
>****************
>oh yeah.. they won't hire you because of your thick accent but if you're their
>customer, mama mia they go through great lengths in providing you applications
>or forms and brochures in tagalog, spanish, japanese, russian etc... oh
they're
>VERY accomodating to non-english speakers when it comes to profits... ;)
>
Yep. That 'bout sums it up. The Korean woman was the first time I had run
across it (that I knew of). Her ex-husband (a Kano) was a total shit to her
too and mostly because of her accent. Some friends were trying to hook us up
but it didn't work out. Oddly enough if her ex would have worked with her a
bit to get a better handle on the language and shelled out for a speech
pathologist she could have lost the accent if she had wanted to. A friend of
mine married a well educated Panamanian and she went to a speech pathologist to
lose the accent.
>>
>>One of my customers rejected their previous engineer because he was East
Indian
>>and his accent was too thick for them to understand. He's a helluva nice guy
>>and knows his stuff but they couldn't get beyond his accent (and this isn't
in
>>the U.S. of A.). Now they have me...mediocre, speak their language somewhat,
>>but hey...I have that 'merikun twang...
>****************
>there was a point when all my clients specified that all communications go
>through me... they'd rather not speak to the japanese engineers directly
unless
>it was absolutely necessary... imagine, without me the pentium chips wouldn't
>exist <wink><wink>....
>
My raptop thanks you. ;-) Actually I'm ready to punt the thing but it has
more to do with Toshiba and Microsoft than the Pentium chip inside.
>>
>>That's cuz Filipinos sound so cute with that sing-songy accent! And the ones
>>from the deep provinces sound kinda Puerto Rican and we're already used to
>>them! I really think it depends on one's native language as to which accents
>>sound 'cool'. Me, for one, get an immediate 'rise' whenever I hear a French
>>girl speaking English with that oh-so-cute French accent. Thai women, on the
>>other hand, almost give me a headache with their accents and I don't know
why.
>***********
>i like the french accent but not the men... there's something dooffus abt
>them... ;) but i like listening to the spanish accent of penelope cruz or
>antonio banderas or people from spain... it sounds kinda sexy me thinks...
>
Funny, French men sound so "fru-fru" but the women sound so nice. Spanish men,
on the hand sound so masculine and the women sexy. And I love real Spanish
names. It's like a whole sentence. Sounds so aristocratic. When I found out
my wifes full name (on her NBI clearance) I was ready to change mine. She, on
the other hand, hates it and swore if I ever called her by it...
On days when I'm feeling ornery, I threaten to legally change my family name to
Graf von Neuenhain just to piss off the Germans. (A Graf is a count.) Even
though there is no royalty here as such, they just revere those titles.
Clueless
Keith Wood
MariaClara wrote:
> there was a point when all my clients specified that all communications go
> through me... they'd rather not speak to the japanese engineers directly unless
> it was absolutely necessary... imagine, without me the pentium chips wouldn't
> exist <wink><wink>....
So, it's YOUR fault?!
I'm old enough to remember when "Intel Inside" wasn't a WARNING label.
Kano
> i like listening to the spanish accent of penelope cruz or
> antonio banderas or people from spain... it sounds kinda sexy me thinks...
>
Sometimes it is hard to understand them in English (I'm sure they say
the same about my Spanish =0) but it is kewl, almost like being in a
movie all the time. I wonder when/where our American accents are
considered sexy or cute -- and is it that way speaking English, or
another language (and which one)
Kano
Taking notes
LeeBat
>I wonder when/where our American accents are
>considered sexy or cute
Australia.
I had numerous sweet young things flirtingly tell me they just loved my Yank
accent. Even male Aussies, upon hearing me speak, would often come over and
initiate friendly conversations.
Nice people, them Ozzites. (Don't tell JT, I don't want him gettin' all
bigheaded and stuff.)
Dunno if that has changed with increased US tourism. My experiences were in the
80s when Americans were a relatively rare commodity over there.
LeeBat
Ana Princess
Just JT wrote:
>
> Paulit nagtanong si XGuyJ:
> >
> > Why don't US Born Filipinos know how to speak Tagalog?
> >
> ---------------
> In light of the answers given as to why foreign-born Flips don't speak
> Tagalog, it is my duty to translate the traditional song Bahay Kubo:
>
> Bahay Kubo
> kahit munti
> Ang halaman doon
> Ay sari-sari
>
> Hunchback house
> Even though in the National Penitentiary
> The plants over there
> is a mum 'n' pop store
>
> Singkamas at talong
> Sigarillas at mani
> Sitaw, bataw, patani
>
> Turnips and trousers
> Female cigarettes and female <ahem>
> Beans: small (Ate V), medium (Ate Ros), large (Ate MC)
>
> Kundol, patola
> Upo't kalabasa
> At saka mayroon pa
> Labanos, mustasa
>
> Earthquake, female mosquito coil
> Class idiot sitting down
> And then there are more
> Washings and "how are you"
>
> Sibuyas, kamatis
> Bawang at luya
> Sa paligid-ligid
> ay puro linga
>
> Onions, tomatoes
> Firecrackers and spit
> And around and around
> is pure snort
>
> --
> Just JT
> Johnn...@Hotmail.Com
> AngDiMarunongMagmahalSaSarilingWika
> SanaMagkaHika
> MaihianNgPalaka
> AtMalunodSaSapa