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The Philippines really does suck.

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jpsmi...@yahoo.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 12:08:10 AM4/30/05
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In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.

I suppose I could eventually come to terms with the ridiculously high
cost of living, the poor quality and variety of goods available,
outrageous land prices, the unavailability of affordable financing, the
insect problem, the pollution, the lousy food and food quality, the
manifest corruption that just pervades every aspect of this society,
the rankness and ignorance of the people, and last but not least, the
bloody, never-ending violence.

What I cannot deal with in the Philippines is the gratuitous racism.

Filipinos can come to the U.S. and, without even becoming citizens, are
allowed to get jobs, send money back home, buy and own property, buy,
own and even carry firearms, etc. In fact, I've heard of rich Filipinos
buying large tracts of land in California, and then subdividing and
only selling to other Filipinos.

So I go to the Philippines and find out (after considerable
inconvenience and time spent, and letting the Philippine government
shake me down for hundreds of dollars for legal permanent residence
status), I can't even own property - not even a few hundred square
meters for a residence; nor am I even allowed to buy a gun to protect
myself and my family.

In a land where there are all kinds of rebels and moslem extremist
groups and criminals armed to the teeth with fully automatic weapons,
running around slaughtering and kidnapping people, and where
"foreigners" such as myself are a prime target, yet we are the ones
specifically denied any legal means to protect ourselves.

Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to escape
this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.

gr...@msn.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 1:35:28 AM4/30/05
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What is your point?

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 1:42:56 AM4/30/05
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In part to warn others not to come here, and in part to see if there's
anyone out there that will disagree.

g...@msn.com wrote:
> What is your point?

Chris Blunt

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Apr 30, 2005, 2:16:58 AM4/30/05
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On 29 Apr 2005 22:42:56 -0700, jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:

>In part to warn others not to come here, and in part to see if there's
>anyone out there that will disagree.

Well, I live in Manila, and I'm very happy with most aspects of life
here. Of course there are problems, but you can work around them with
a little effort. Perhaps you should have done more research about the
country before making the move so you'd know what your were going into
beforehand. With access to the internet, its not hard to find out
about local laws and just about everything else you need to know
before you leave home. Just because the law in the US allows
foreigners to do certain things, that doesn't mean that other
countries should follow them. The Philippines is an independent
country, not a colony of the US any more. Laws here are to benefit
local people, although I agree that for most part means for the
benefit of the rich an powerful locals. The law is not there to make
life convenient for every American who thinks things should be
arranged just to suit him.

I don't see how you can describe the cost of living as ridiculously
high. Most things cost a fraction of what they would in western
countries. I can live very well in Manila, whereas with the same money
in the west I'd have a very mediocre lifestyle.

For the most part, corruption hasn't been an issue for me. When I came
here, I bought a property, had it registered in my name, got my
permanent resident visa, bought a car and got my driving license, all
without any kind of bribery or corruption whatsoever. I don't doubt
that in big business circles corruption would be much more apparent,
but for the ordinary person it doesn't really have to affect them
personally in any significant way.

I find the key to most things here is the attitude you take. Filipinos
know only too well what the problems in the country are. The last
thing they want is some newly arrived foreigner thinking he knows it
all telling them what they should be doing. I see so many westerners
here going around with a superior attitude and a condescending
approach to the country, and they are generally the ones who end up
with problems.

I really don't know why you're had a problem with "never-ending
violence". In the six years I've spent in the country I've never once
had any act of violence committed against me. Thank goodness the law
doesn't allow you to own a gun here or you'd end up getting yourself
into even more trouble.

Perhaps you should buy yourself a ticket home.

Chris

Joseph Wind

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Apr 30, 2005, 2:41:23 AM4/30/05
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You can buy a condo or a share in a Master Plan community. As for the gun,
have someone buy it for you.

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114834090.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Joseph Wind

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Apr 30, 2005, 2:47:20 AM4/30/05
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Yeah, warn the other foreigners to stay away from the Philippines.

No one is holding a gun to your head to stay. IF YOU DON'T LIE IT GET THE
F*** OUT!

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114839776.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 4:42:41 AM4/30/05
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Chris Blunt wrote:
> On 29 Apr 2005 22:42:56 -0700, jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >In part to warn others not to come here, and in part to see if
there's
> >anyone out there that will disagree.
>
> Well, I live in Manila, and I'm very happy with most aspects of life
> here. Of course there are problems, but you can work around them with
> a little effort. Perhaps you should have done more research about the
> country before making the move so you'd know what your were going
into
> beforehand.

You know and I know that it is almost impossible to learn the details
of life somewhere without living there. Get real.


With access to the internet, its not hard to find out
> about local laws and just about everything else you need to know
> before you leave home.

Not true, Chris. Try finding any *detailed* online information about
legally buying a gun here; the *specifics*. After many hours of online
research, I concluded that, as draconian as the gun laws are, there
seemed to be no legal proscription against my buying and owning a
pistol over here.

Yet they refuse to sell me one because I'm a "foreigner"; and not even
Filipino gun shop owners and lawyers that I've talked to over here have
even been able to cite the statutes that ostensibly prevent me from
buying a pistol.

Just because the law in the US allows
> foreigners to do certain things, that doesn't mean that other
> countries should follow them.

Well of course. If Filipinos want to be racists in their own country,
who am I to disagree?

If they want to be hypocrites, who am I to oppose them?

If Filipinos want to discourage people who have some money to spend and
something to contribute to society from coming here, who am I to get in
the way?

Their country can continue going to hell without me.

The general Filipino mentality seems to be that I, as a white person,
am made out of money. You know it and I know it. And anyone who knows
anything about the gun laws over here knows that I cannot legally
defend myself. I'm therefore a prime target: identifiably "wealthy" and
legally defenseless.


The Philippines is an independent
> country, not a colony of the US any more.

LOL! The U.S. says "jump", and the "independent" Philippine government
says, how high? I got some news for you: The Philippines didn't send
troops to Iraq for domestic purposes (although to their credit they did
eventually pull them out).

Laws here are to benefit
> local people,

Are you being dishonest or just naive? Laws in most countries,
including the Philippines, are generally of, by and for elitists.

although I agree that for most part means for the
> benefit of the rich an powerful locals.

Well I guess so.

The law is not there to make
> life convenient for every American who thinks things should be
> arranged just to suit him.

So, here I am in a land where I live not very far from heavily armed
people who would probably kill me in an instant, for no other reason
than my national origin, yet I'm not even allowed to have a duly
registered pistol in my home? Even though the Filipino next door can,
just because he's Filipino. And I have the temerity to be angry? Why
how silly and selfish of me, to think I should value my life and that
of my family as much as the Filipino next door.

Thanks for pointing out my unreasonable selfishness, Chris.

> I don't see how you can describe the cost of living as ridiculously
> high. Most things cost a fraction of what they would in western
> countries.

I guess you never buy anything here? Go buy ANYTHING other than locally
produced food products, for example, and tell me how the price compares
to Wal-Mart for example.

And if the price for some particular item seems relatively cheap here,
you can bet the quality is horrible. I bought my kids bikes for about
the same price I would have paid at Wal-Mart. In six months time I've
replaced practically every part on each bike. I've got far more into it
than had I bought the bikes in the U.S.

That's just one small example, obviously.

I can live very well in Manila, whereas with the same money
> in the west I'd have a very mediocre lifestyle.

Depending on many factors, possibly that's true, but in general it's
bullshit.

For example, I live in an area where there's hydropower - that is, the
power company doesn't have to burn fuel, the energy is a gift from
nature. Yet my power bill here is significantly higher here than it was
in the U.S. (per kw/hour), where fuel was being burnt, high priced
unionized employees had to be paid, and costly safety and pollution
requirements had to be met.

I pay more for internet service (and it's terrible service) I pay more
for groceries and I pay more for any kind of hardware, electronics,
appliances, etc.

The rent is probably a little less than what I'd pay in the U.S., and
property owners pay less here obviously, but land is much more
expensive here.

>
> For the most part, corruption hasn't been an issue for me.

Not that you are aware of, at least.

When I came
> here, I bought a property, had it registered in my name,

As far as I know, you, as a permanent resident are not allowed to fully
own real property here. I know I am not, and I too am a permanent
resident.

got my
> permanent resident visa, bought a car and got my driving license, all
> without any kind of bribery or corruption whatsoever.

Or at least, none that you're aware of. But so what?

I don't doubt
> that in big business circles corruption would be much more apparent,
> but for the ordinary person it doesn't really have to affect them
> personally in any significant way.

It "doesn't really have to"?. I would say it is unfortunately largely
responsible for the sad state of the Philippines.

>
> I find the key to most things here is the attitude you take.

Thanks for that profound tidbit of information.

Filipinos
> know only too well what the problems in the country are.

Unfortunately, though, rather than trying to do anything about it, even
when they possibly can, they simply say: "Oh well, this is the
Philippines, and that's how it is here" or something like that.


The last
> thing they want is some newly arrived foreigner thinking he knows it
> all telling them what they should be doing.

So if I come along as a "newly arrived foreigner" and I say, gee, maybe
if you stop banging your head against the wall, maybe your headache
will go away, that makes me a "know it all"?

Sorry, but 2 + 2 = 4 no matter even if a "newly arrived foreigner" says
it.

As unpleasant and unfortunate as it may be, the fact of the matter is
that, compared to other countries in Asia, the Philippines is not
generally recognized as a successful society. So maybe it's time to
listen to the constructive criticism of others rather than merely
denigrate them.


I see so many westerners
> here going around with a superior attitude and a condescending
> approach to the country, and they are generally the ones who end up
> with problems.

ROTFLMAO! I'm told essentially that my life isn't worth as much as a
Filipino life, yet I'm the one with the "superior attitude"?

>
> I really don't know why you're had a problem with "never-ending
> violence".

I haven't yet. But I've come close. I missed an armed robbery by a few
minutes not long ago. There've been days when we didn't go far because
of bombing warnings.

And my wife has had a brother murdered in Manila, NPA in her house
(here in Mindanao) putting a hand grenade on the table, and has
personally witnessed two murders while working in a restaurant. Several
people that we both know here have also been kidnapped.

So don't lecture me about violence here, ok?

In the six years I've spent in the country I've never once
> had any act of violence committed against me.

Not even theft? You're either lucky, or perhaps you live such a
priveleged or sheltered life over here that your risk is very low.

Thank goodness the law
> doesn't allow you to own a gun here or you'd end up getting yourself
> into even more trouble.

Only terrorists and criminals should have guns, right Chris?

>
> Perhaps you should buy yourself a ticket home.

Perhaps.

>
> Chris

BTW, I'm curious, are you married to a Filipina, or are you gay or a
pedophile or sex-fiend of some kind? I actually don't mean to insult
you, but as it turns out, some of the "westerners" I've met here who
have attitudes similar to yours and have made statements similar to
yours turned out to be here for one reason: to satisfy their kinky
sexual appetite. They seem to have a psychological need to convince
themselves and others that they're here because of a better lifestyle
for a given income, or some such nonsense, when it's clear they're here
for something else entirely.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 4:59:51 AM4/30/05
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Joseph Wind wrote:
> Yeah, warn the other foreigners to stay away from the Philippines.

If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have come here.
So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've found, as
I know there are others contemplating moving here.

>
> No one is holding a gun to your head to stay.

How do you know what my situation is, you presumptuous bastard?

IF YOU DON'T LIE IT GET THE
> F*** OUT!

Fuck you, Joey. Crawl up your ass and disappear, moron.

Chris Blunt

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Apr 30, 2005, 6:17:38 AM4/30/05
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On 30 Apr 2005 01:42:41 -0700, jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:

>BTW, I'm curious, are you married to a Filipina, or are you gay or a
>pedophile or sex-fiend of some kind? I actually don't mean to insult
>you,

No, I don't fit into any of those categories, and you obviously are
trying to be insulting. I can see now why you're having such a hard
time living in the Philippines. No wonder you're so desperate to get
hold of a gun. I bet you've made a lot of enemies here.

If I were you I'd leave before you have to be sent home in a body-bag.
You're clearly very unhappy living in the country.

Chris

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 7:25:08 AM4/30/05
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Chris Blunt wrote:
> On 30 Apr 2005 01:42:41 -0700, jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >BTW, I'm curious, are you married to a Filipina, or are you gay or a
> >pedophile or sex-fiend of some kind? I actually don't mean to insult
> >you,
>
> No, I don't fit into any of those categories, and you obviously are
> trying to be insulting.

Sorry if you felt insulted. I'd love to be proven wrong, but it's
unfortunately been my experience that "westerners" (especially those
not married to a Filipina) who *really like it here*, and have few if
any complaints, are here to satisfy a perverse sexual appetite of some
kind. I'm glad to hear you don't fit into such a category.

I can see now why you're having such a hard
> time living in the Philippines.

I'm actually not having such a hard time living in the Philippines.

No wonder you're so desperate to get
> hold of a gun.

LOL! I'm "desperate"? I guess you can't read very well, or perhaps you
don't generally comprehend what you read?

Frankly, I could probably go buy a gun tomorrow, illegally of course,
but that's not the issue. The issue, all things considered, is the
racist ideology whereby only Filipinos, and not white people, are
allowed to have guns here.
You can call it whatever you want to, but basically it's a de facto
statement by the Philippine government that the life of a white person
simply is not worth as much as the life of a Filipino.

> I bet you've made a lot of enemies here.

Well, you've been wrong about everything else, so knock your socks
off...facts don't seem to matter much to you anyway.

>
> If I were you I'd leave before you have to be sent home in a
body-bag.

Given your hear-no-evil, see-no-evil attitude, I think you're actually
at greater risk than I am.

> You're clearly very unhappy living in the country.

Obviously.

carlosb...@aol.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 7:55:17 AM4/30/05
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haay buhay. calling dsp

carlosb...@aol.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 8:18:43 AM4/30/05
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bakit nandiyan pa ang damuhong ire kong siya ay asar na asar sa
pilipinas? kailangan niya bago pomunta riyan ay bumasa ng culture
shock. bakit ba niya kailangan ng baril kong nakatira siya sa isang
posh building ? sa pinto pa lang semplang na siya sa sikyo. reklamo
siya na mahal daw ang bilihin. say ko diyan siya bumibili sa alabang
at sa iba bang lugar na pinupugaran ng mga mayayaman ng pilipinas .
mahal doon chong parang dollars .puti kasi kaya hinde naghahalubilo
sa mga rabble man of the streets [ hinde alabang ha ]. yong kaibigan
kong puti mahilig maglakad sa mga eskenita ng indang para mag
exercise wala namang nangyari.


btw may racket o business proposal daw eto . isang kaibigan niya na
realtor naghahanap ng business partners para bumili ng mga apartments
dito sa san jose bay area . hinde ba ito gimmick lang or scam ? may
business proposal daw sa kanyang office sa monday para sa mga taong
sumali. who knows.

carlosb...@aol.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 8:41:01 AM4/30/05
to
this guy is not happy in the us and is not happy in the philippines.
where could he be happy with that sucky attitude?


here is what he says about the us

None of the evil the U.S. does surprises me. In fact, I moved out of
the country a few months ago because of it.


The rest of the world really needs to stop pretending that the U.S.
isn't the biggest threat to the world that ever existed, and instead
get together to find a way to stop it before it does anymore damage.

jpsmith...@yahoo.com Apr 22, 11:13 pm show options

Newsgroups: soc.culture.costa-rica
From: jpsmith...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 22 Apr 2005 23:13:36 -0700
Local: Fri,Apr 22 2005 11:13 pm
Subject: Is it legal to have an AR15 rifle in Costa Rica?
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

Can anyone tell me if an AR15 can be legally possessed in Costa Rica?
Or is there a list available somewhere which specifies which guns are
legal and/or which are not? Thank you.


Regards,
Joe

why would someone need a gun in peacenik costa rica? geeze. now what
kind of gun would he want in the philippines ? a bazooka?

Hello,


I'm wondering: Is there any country in the world where a U.S. citizen
can move to and bring their AR15?


Does anyone know?


Regards,
Joe


------------------------------

an ar15. i see. where would you buy that in the philippines? for the
common man its not easy to get that permit either especially for a
long one like an ar15 or an ak47. are you special? are you planning
to join the npa? if so they will give you a gun [ an m16 ] for free
but you cant leave.


as for owning land. lots of filipinos dont have the money to buy
any land . some of them become squatters or rent. chinese immigrants,
west indians there are supposed to be foreigners but a lot end up
becoming successful and own land and even own guns . so if you want
to get these its up to you . do it . it all depends on your talent,
perseverance and moxy. ask dsp, 88 , boracay bill etc for lessons.
if you need contacts in the underworld call me i mean call the
sepultorero . i dont know any of that . easy to get illegal guns in
the pinas but if you get caught its your ass

DirtySickPig

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Apr 30, 2005, 9:24:53 AM4/30/05
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carlosb...@aol.com wrote:
> haay buhay. calling dsp

got ya ,

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 9:29:14 AM4/30/05
to

carlosbongo...@aol.com wrote:
> this guy is not happy in the us and is not happy in the philippines.
> where could he be happy with that sucky attitude?

What "sucky attitude" are you referring to? As I stated, I can deal
with hardships here to a certain extent, but I have a very low
tolerance for racism.

>
>
> here is what he says about the us
>
> None of the evil the U.S. does surprises me. In fact, I moved out of
> the country a few months ago because of it.
>
>
> The rest of the world really needs to stop pretending that the U.S.
> isn't the biggest threat to the world that ever existed, and instead
> get together to find a way to stop it before it does anymore damage.

You would disagree with my assessment, Carlos?


>
> jpsmith...@yahoo.com Apr 22, 11:13 pm show options
>
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.costa-rica
> From: jpsmith...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
> Date: 22 Apr 2005 23:13:36 -0700
> Local: Fri,Apr 22 2005 11:13 pm
> Subject: Is it legal to have an AR15 rifle in Costa Rica?
> Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
> original | Report Abuse
>
> Can anyone tell me if an AR15 can be legally possessed in Costa Rica?
> Or is there a list available somewhere which specifies which guns are
> legal and/or which are not? Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,
> Joe
>
> why would someone need a gun in peacenik costa rica? geeze.

If you had read the rest of the thread, you would have found out why.

now what
> kind of gun would he want in the philippines ? a bazooka?

I merely want what everyone else has, that's all; or I want the
government to disarm everyone, including police. Either everyone should
be armed (or at least, have the right to be armed), or no one should be
armed. Anything in between is morally unacceptable, IMO. Simple
concept, no?

>
> Hello,
>
>
> I'm wondering: Is there any country in the world where a U.S. citizen
> can move to and bring their AR15?
>
>
> Does anyone know?
>
>
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> an ar15. i see. where would you buy that in the philippines?

Why ask me? (In any case, if you have to ask, I guess you don't know
that much about the Philippines).

for the
> common man its not easy to get that permit either especially for a
> long one like an ar15 or an ak47. are you special?

And as long as we're making up stories, and/or speculating wildly, why
do you want a 50 caliber Browning Machine gun, are you special?

are you planning
> to join the npa? if so they will give you a gun [ an m16 ] for
free
> but you cant leave.

You bothered to look up some of my other posts, too bad you apparently
didn't bother to take the time to understand what you read; if so,
maybe you'd see I'm opposed to violence, especially state sponsored
violence. In fact, at some level, I despise guns and I wish they were
never invented. But they are a fact of life, just like viruses and
parasites and fascism and statism, for example.

>
>
>
>
> as for owning land. lots of filipinos dont have the money to buy
> any land . some of them become squatters or rent.

Indeed.

chinese immigrants,
> west indians there are supposed to be foreigners but a lot end up
> becoming successful and own land and even own guns .

In theory, I could eventually become a citizen and then legally own
land or a gun, etc.

so if you want
> to get these its up to you . do it . it all depends on your
talent,
> perseverance and moxy.

I'm not inclined to stay here where the official position of the
government is that my life is worth less than that of a Filipino.

ask dsp, 88 , boracay bill etc for lessons.
> if you need contacts in the underworld call me i mean call the
> sepultorero . i dont know any of that . easy to get illegal guns
in
> the pinas but if you get caught its your ass

You've hit upon the problem from another angle. If I get caught doing
what everyone else is doing, i.e., wanting to protect my family and
myself, "it's [my] ass".

inko...@wongfaye.com

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Apr 30, 2005, 10:29:40 AM4/30/05
to
Just to be fair:

Yes Filipinos can buy property in the US and have all these rights,
etc. Provided they have the money.

But most cannot get a bloody visa to go to the US unless they marry a
Kano or a re rech or have a profession that is in demand.

The line to immigrate to the US at the embassy in Manila is backlogged
16 years!

That is why you see so many desperate Pinays with fat old American men
who are old enough to be not their father but their great-grandfather.

I saw some guys who were half paralyzed with beautiful young wives.

Second, most of "racism" you talk about is basically a problem of
citizenship, not race. It is not aimed at discriminating against white
people but at not granting certain rights to non-citizens. Most
countries do that. The US still bars non-citizens from certain jobs and
foreign-born citizens cannot pass many security clearances. That is a
fact of life.

Philippines has fewer restrictions on foreiners than many Asian
countries around. Your visa can be extended up to one year. In Thailand
you need to get out every two-three months and then they may refuse it
the third time. And permanent residency is also a big problem. There
have been stories of Thai women interrogated by the police as to why
they married a Farang - a whitey.

Before being granted a visa to come to the US a Filipino needs to
undergo an interview and many if not most are rejected. Only the rich
ones or critically needed people or those with US spouses are allowed
in.

There was a story of a Filipino whose father was dying in the US and
who was refused a visa by teh US consulate to go and attend to his
dying father. How cruel!

An American can just walk into the Philippines. He does not even need
to pay money for the visa- at least the first time.

Racism? If you are a Malaysian you would have the same problem of not
being able to own land or gun in the Philippines. And you would be of
the same race.

There is a provision in the constitution of the RP whereby you can
become a Filipino citizen. Then you will be able to own property.

And one more thing- if you compare the resisitance of society to you
marrying a Pinay to what you would experience in other Asian countries,
you would call the RP a paradise. Most Korean parents or Japanese
parents would not want their daugher to even be seen with a White
Devil. In the Philippines, it is quite normal and very much accepted
at least compared to other Asian societies.

Another thing- Mindanao is a critical area. Many Filipinos from Manila
would not even dream of going there. This is a place that is considered
dangerous and not very friendly.

Why are you in a place like that? You should be in Cebu or Manila or
Angeles City- very Westernized places with all the amenities and
conveniences of the West. Cebu is the place, actually.

Most immigrants who go to the US do not like to go go to live in the
South Bronx or S. Brooklyn- ghetto areas populated by many horrible
people who will shoot you if you are not of a certain race.

The also do not go to live in the Appalachians. A Filipino settling in
a small town in the Appalachia will probably be met with a welcome of a
few sawed off shotguns and a cross burnt on his doorstep.

Wanna hear about racism? Watch the movie "Alamo Bay" about the VNese
moving to Texas.

So, why did you go to Mindanao- an island known for kidnappings and
killings and all that?

I suggest you move to Cebu.

Prices?

I rented a condo in a hotel with a pool in Cebu- P22,000 a month. This
would be a daily rate in many places in the US.

In California some internet cafes are $10 an hour. In the RP it is
$0.50 an hour.

I went to buy some shirts while on the last trip in the US- the prices
are $39 while on sale!

But then again I was in Palm Springs.

The Philippines never promised you a rose garden. One should go there
with the attitude that the country has its good points and bad points.

Just like the US- it has great infrastructure but it is often a lonely
place to be- kids do not respect their parents, it takes months to make
friends in any new place, racial segregation - "you stay with your
people-I stay with mine", is so stark even today. A lot of gloomy
unhappy people on the streets, too.

It is not your paradise either.

It costs you only hundreds of dollars to get permanent residence? In
Indonesia it would cost you $20,000.

And how much does it cost to immigrate to the US? Most Filipinos cannot
afford it.

I would be nice if you could see it in perspective not from some
idealistic point of view.

I

inko...@wongfaye.com

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 10:38:06 AM4/30/05
to
And one more thing- "If you do not like it, get the fuck out" is a
response of an uneducated person. Please spare this line. This line is
being repeated by people everywhere. And it is a cruel and unfeeling
way to talk to other people.

People have their reasons to be where they are and sometimes they go
through difficulties so please magpakatao ka, do not be an asshole. And
it is not easy to just "get the fuck out" when you have a wife and kids
in school.

If you are a good person you can give advice on how to approach the
problem productively and how to minimize the hard times the person is
going through.

If you are a heartless individual, then I guess that is the only way
you can talk to other people.

The US can also be a jungle and many immigrants have to struggle with
all sorts of things. Advice and support is the best way one can help
them.

There is a bulletin board:

www.livingincebu.com ( often down) and
www.livinginthephilippines.com

Many expats talk to each other there. The person should join these BBS
and get advice. From a positive point of view.

It is not easy to be away from home in a foreign land. One gets
frustrated sometimes and pors his feelings out.

As the natives of the land, please offer some constructive and postive
advice.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 11:59:35 AM4/30/05
to

inkogn...@wongfaye.com wrote:
> Just to be fair:
>
> Yes Filipinos can buy property in the US and have all these rights,
> etc. Provided they have the money.

Money? What money? Everything's generally cheaper in the U.S., and it's
rather easy to get financing. You can practically work at Wal-Mart and
become a land baron.

>
> But most cannot get a bloody visa to go to the US unless they marry a
> Kano or a re rech or have a profession that is in demand.

Well, ok, now you're changing the subject.

>
> The line to immigrate to the US at the embassy in Manila is
backlogged
> 16 years!

Yes I know.

>
> That is why you see so many desperate Pinays with fat old American
men
> who are old enough to be not their father but their
great-grandfather.
>
> I saw some guys who were half paralyzed with beautiful young wives.

Indeed.

>
> Second, most of "racism" you talk about is basically a problem of
> citizenship, not race.

Since "citizenship" status per se, in this case, clearly has no
reasonable bearing on the issue of gun ownership (especially given the
other factors involved in the gun ownership process), I would argue
that it is in fact racist or at least, supremacist (if that's a
distinction worth making). IOW, in making "citizenship" a requirement
for gun ownersip, the government of the Philippines discriminates
against me for no good reason that I can see, except that I'm not
Filipino.

It is not aimed at discriminating against white
> people but at not granting certain rights to non-citizens.

I think you're confusing "means" and "ends". I guess you could make
that claim, but in order to be taken seriously, IMO, you'd have to show
that, in the case of say, defending my home from an armed intruder,
formal citizenship status would somehow make some kind of a reasonable
difference to some legitimate function of government, wouldn't you?

I could see certain rights, say, like voting, being withheld from legal
residents vis-a-vis citizens, something where you could make a
reasonable distinction between classes of people.

(Don't forget, too, that the Philippine Constitution has an "equal
protection clause", which should operate to prevent differential
treatment based on arbitrary classifications).

Most
> countries do that. The US still bars non-citizens from certain jobs
and
> foreign-born citizens cannot pass many security clearances. That is a
> fact of life.

Indeed. And it is quite reasonable. And if tested, it has to pass
Constitutional muster.

>
> Philippines has fewer restrictions on foreiners than many Asian
> countries around.

I'd say the Philippines really shakes down tourists, don't you think?
Is it twenty one days, and then a 2000 peso fee for a renewal, I think?
Whereas in Panama, for example, it's ninety days, with a $5.00 renewal.

Your visa can be extended up to one year. In Thailand
> you need to get out every two-three months and then they may refuse
it
> the third time. And permanent residency is also a big problem. There
> have been stories of Thai women interrogated by the police as to why
> they married a Farang - a whitey.

I believe it.

>
> Before being granted a visa to come to the US a Filipino needs to
> undergo an interview and many if not most are rejected. Only the rich
> ones or critically needed people or those with US spouses are allowed
> in.

Well sure. The government obviously has a duty to keep things balanced.
It's a complex legal, moral, and philosophical issue. I frankly don't
know enough about it to discuss it in any great detail, unfortunately.


>
> There was a story of a Filipino whose father was dying in the US and
> who was refused a visa by teh US consulate to go and attend to his
> dying father. How cruel!

On the face of it, I would agree completely. (The U.S. government has
become completely immoral, in my view, as have many other governments,
as well).

>
> An American can just walk into the Philippines. He does not even need
> to pay money for the visa- at least the first time.
>
> Racism? If you are a Malaysian you would have the same problem of not
> being able to own land or gun in the Philippines. And you would be of
> the same race.

Technically speaking, it would still be "racism". Look up the formal
definition of "racism".

>
> There is a provision in the constitution of the RP whereby you can
> become a Filipino citizen. Then you will be able to own property.

It is a theoretical possibility, but as a practical matter, it is
almost a moot point. Moreover, even if I wanted to do that, it would
take several years.

The issue is that I am here right now, living here with and among
everyone else. For purposes of wanting and needing to protect my
family, I am completely indistinguishable from the Filipino next door -
and therein lies the immorality of the differential treatment.

>
> And one more thing- if you compare the resisitance of society to you
> marrying a Pinay to what you would experience in other Asian
countries,
> you would call the RP a paradise. Most Korean parents or Japanese
> parents would not want their daugher to even be seen with a White
> Devil. In the Philippines, it is quite normal and very much accepted
> at least compared to other Asian societies.

Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the culture in those
countries.

Whew, this is getting long and it's getting late. I'll get the rest
tomorrow possibly.

<snip>

DJ k

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 3:21:30 PM4/30/05
to

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114834090.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.
>

>


> Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to escape
> this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.

= === =


You could help the people by sending them GUNS, RAT POISON
and info on how to ROB banks

LIBERATE THE COUNTRY FROM IDIOTS


kuraks


Nung nanu-nanu mu

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 4:23:31 PM4/30/05
to
So what is an anti-American like you doing in Mindanao? Why do you
ignore the travel advisory of your government?

Why did you bring your family with you in Mindanao? I don't believe
this and I think that this is just an alibi for buying a gun.

As for foreigners buying/bringing guns in the Philippines, this is a
matter of sovereignty and national security. Why should we make it easy
for foreigners like you to make a banana republic of the Philippines?

Which brings me back to my first question: why would an anti-American
tourist want to buy a gun in Mindanao?

BTW, regarding the cost of a tourist visa, you should compare the cost
of a Philippine visa issued in the USA to the cost of a US visa issued
in the Philippines. That's how countries reciprocate.

Message has been deleted

Sylvia Knörr

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 8:38:09 PM4/30/05
to

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1114851591.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Joseph Wind wrote:

> > Yeah, warn the other foreigners to stay away from the Philippines.

> If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have come here.
> So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've found, as
> I know there are others contemplating moving here.

> > No one is holding a gun to your head to stay.

> How do you know what my situation is, you presumptuous bastard?

> Fuck you, Joey. Crawl up your ass and disappear, moron.


Sorry to say that but my impression is that it didn´t come out of the blue
that you don´t feel comfortable in the Philippines. The way you resort to
name calling and your lack of patience must hurt the feelings of most of
your Filipino neighbors and everyone you have to deal with.
What do you expect when you call your host country a "pathetic excuse for a
country" and let everyone know that in your eyes the residents are all sorry
losers? Did you ever take into account that the local´s attitude might be a
reflection of *your* hostile attitude?
You don´t LOVE the Philippines, you are unable to respect their very own
ways, hence they will never love you back.
If I were you I would leave a place where I don´t feel welcome.

Deliberately Unarmed Piggy


jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 8:45:51 PM4/30/05
to

Nung nanu-nanu mu wrote:
> So what is an anti-American like you doing in Mindanao?

Sorry, but America is dead. I despise the abomination that has taken
her place.

Why do you
> ignore the travel advisory of your government?

My wife's family is here. (BTW, as far as I'm concerned, the U.S.
government is no longer "my government").

>
> Why did you bring your family with you in Mindanao?

See above.

I don't believe
> this and I think that this is just an alibi for buying a gun.

I guess you're free to think what ever you want.

>
> As for foreigners buying/bringing guns in the Philippines, this is a
> matter of sovereignty and national security.

ROTFLMAO! You're funny!


Why should we make it easy
> for foreigners like you to make a banana republic of the Philippines?


Do you know anything about the Philippines?

>
> Which brings me back to my first question: why would an anti-American
> tourist want to buy a gun in Mindanao?

Tourist? Who's a tourist? I live here.

>
> BTW, regarding the cost of a tourist visa, you should compare the
cost
> of a Philippine visa issued in the USA to the cost of a US visa
issued
> in the Philippines. That's how countries reciprocate.

Sorry, I don't know the costs. Please tell me what they are.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 9:43:05 PM4/30/05
to

Sylvia Knörr wrote:
> <jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:1114851591.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Joseph Wind wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, warn the other foreigners to stay away from the
Philippines.
>
> > If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have come
here.
> > So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've
found, as
> > I know there are others contemplating moving here.
>
> > > No one is holding a gun to your head to stay.
>
> > How do you know what my situation is, you presumptuous bastard?
> > Fuck you, Joey. Crawl up your ass and disappear, moron.
>
>
> Sorry to say that but my impression is that it didn´t come out of
the blue
> that you don´t feel comfortable in the Philippines.

You're right, it didn't. It started when the Philippine government told
me my life's not worth anything over here. That was the last straw, so
to speak. My patience has essentially run out.

The way you resort to
> name calling and your lack of patience must hurt the feelings of most
of
> your Filipino neighbors and everyone you have to deal with.

I don't just run around for no reason calling people names. In general,
I try to live my life according to the Christian doctrine of
reciprocity.

> What do you expect when you call your host country a "pathetic excuse
for a
> country"

I call it as I see it. Just like when a blood thirsty, fascist America
goes all over the world under the aegis of a fiction called "[T]he War
on Terror", murdering innocent people by the thousands, to advance its
immoral imperial agenda, I call that as I see it, too. And telling the
ugly truth has gotten me into trouble.

and let everyone know that in your eyes the residents are all sorry
> losers?

I didn't actually say that "the residents are all sorry losers". I
haven't been here long enough to have a valid opinion as to the extent
to which "the people are the government".

Did you ever take into account that the local´s attitude might be a
> reflection of *your* hostile attitude?

I don't necessarily have a problem with the locals' attitudes (to the
extent they've expressed them, that is). It's the official racism that
I cannot tolerate.

> You don´t LOVE the Philippines, you are unable to respect their very
own
> ways, hence they will never love you back.

I came over here with hope and an open mind. Then they told me that my
life's not worth that of a Filipino. That's a rather poor foundation to
build upon, don't you think?

> If I were you I would leave a place where I don´t feel welcome.

I'm working on it, but at this point it's a terrific practical hardship
to move again.

DirtySickPig

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 10:44:23 PM4/30/05
to
jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.

What was in your imagination before you boarded the aircraft to the
Philippines? Or did you come in steerage?

> I suppose I could eventually come to terms with the ridiculously high
> cost of living,

How much money did you bring for your stay?

> the poor quality and variety of goods available,

What kind of goods did you expect? Even in your imagination? The same
as the Chinese goods in the U.S.?

> outrageous land prices,

Did you go there with the thought of buying land?

> the unavailability of affordable financing,

Did you notice all those Filipino real estate owners?

> the insect problem,

Insects are a problem? Where else is this a problem in the tropics?

> the pollution,

You don't have to tell us this; we know.

> the lousy food and food quality,

What kind of foods did you expect? Even in your imagination?

> the manifest corruption that just pervades every aspect of this society,

"Manifest?" Kindly explain.

> the rankness

You think you smell good to Filipinos?

> and ignorance of the people,

On what subjects did you engage these ignorant people?

> and last but not least, the bloody, never-ending violence.

I know. Ever been to New York and Atlanta?

> What I cannot deal with in the Philippines is the gratuitous racism.

"Gratuitous?" Kindly explain.

> Filipinos can come to the U.S. and, without even becoming citizens, are
> allowed to get jobs, send money back home, buy and own property, buy,
> own and even carry firearms, etc. In fact, I've heard of rich Filipinos
> buying large tracts of land in California, and then subdividing and
> only selling to other Filipinos.

What is the land area of the United States? The Philippines?

> So I go to the Philippines and find out (after considerable
> inconvenience and time spent, and letting the Philippine government
> shake me down for hundreds of dollars for legal permanent residence
> status), I can't even own property - not even a few hundred square
> meters for a residence;

Aha! You did your homework! But on what country, though?

> nor am I even allowed to buy a gun to protect
> myself and my family.

Shades of New York and Chicago, eh? Not even TOY GUNS in these two places.

> In a land where there are all kinds of rebels and moslem extremist
> groups and criminals armed to the teeth with fully automatic weapons,
> running around slaughtering and kidnapping people, and where
> "foreigners" such as myself are a prime target, yet we are the ones
> specifically denied any legal means to protect ourselves.

The best protection for you and your family was to stay away. Go to the
Middle East, for example. Or Eastern Europe. Very safe, those places!

> Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to escape
> this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.

Are you stuck? Marooned? Can't get out of the shithole? That
permanent resident status doesn't mean you can't leave the country. Go
ahead and blame the Philippines, the people, their government, etc.,
etc., for your predicament.

Are you aware that you are the one who sucks? You went, without
researching, to a foreign land to live there permanently, expecting it
will bend over backwards to offer you Little USA. Then you come face to
face with a different people, culture, government, economy and set of
laws. Then you log on to soc.culture.filipino and say, "Boo hoo hoo!"

Yes, sir or madam as the case may be, WE WILL SOLVE ALL YOUR MENTAL
PROBLEMS FOR YOU here at SCF! Not. :D

Gago. Bobo. Plonkv.

Unsympathetic Pig
Laughing My Ass Off
Rolling On The Floor
Peeing In My Pants

Message has been deleted

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 11:03:50 PM4/30/05
to

I was referring to the "Golden Rule" (which is actually part of many
religions and philosophies
(http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm.

In other words, I try (even though I'm not always successful) not to do
to others what I wouldn't want done to myself.

Yak Rider wrote:
> In article <1114911785....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> jpsmi...@yahoo.com says...


> >
> >
> >
> >I don't just run around for no reason calling people names. In
general,
> >I try to live my life according to the Christian doctrine of
> >reciprocity.
> >
>

> There's no such thing. Christian doctrine requires you to turn your
cheek in
> the face of insults and love your neighbors as you love yourself.
Nothing about
> "reciprocity" in the Bible.
>
> Yak

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
Apr 30, 2005, 11:25:46 PM4/30/05
to
dood you complain about racism in the philippines when even poor
powerless filipinos are themselves descriminated againts by the
bourguouse pinoys . you got more plus than negatives in life coming
from a superpower nation so why bitch?

R. Cutter

unread,
May 1, 2005, 12:12:43 AM5/1/05
to
<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114911785....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Sylvia Knörr wrote:
> <jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:1114851591.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Joseph Wind wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, warn the other foreigners to stay away from the
Philippines.
>
> > If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have come
here.
> > So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've
found, as
> > I know there are others contemplating moving here.
>
> > > No one is holding a gun to your head to stay.
>
> > How do you know what my situation is, you presumptuous bastard?
> > Fuck you, Joey. Crawl up your ass and disappear, moron.
>
>
> Sorry to say that but my impression is that it didn´t come out of
the blue
> that you don´t feel comfortable in the Philippines.

>You're right, it didn't. It started when the Philippine government told
>me my life's not worth anything over here. That was the last straw, so
>to speak. My patience has essentially run out.

You may have been referring to a local Barangay Captain's outburst in
reaction to your cheery disposition.


>
>I don't necessarily have a problem with the locals' attitudes (to the
>extent they've expressed them, that is). It's the official racism that
>I cannot tolerate.

Again, you may have been referring to the same sixth-grade level education
Barangay Captain.


>I call it as I see it. Just like when a blood thirsty, fascist America
>goes all over the world under the aegis of a fiction called "[T]he War
>on Terror", murdering innocent people by the thousands, to advance its
>immoral imperial agenda, I call that as I see it, too. And telling the
>ugly truth has gotten me into trouble.

Now there's your problem right there. In your mind you know more than
everybody else. No wonder nobody can stand you.


dr ngo

unread,
May 1, 2005, 12:23:57 AM5/1/05
to

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114850561.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

[massive snip]


>> As unpleasant and unfortunate as it may be, the fact of the matter is
> that, compared to other countries in Asia, the Philippines is not
> generally recognized as a successful society. So maybe it's time to
> listen to the constructive criticism of others rather than merely
> denigrate them.

[further snip]


I've tried following this thread from a safe distance, but I must have
missed something. Can anyone else find where in the endless screeds of
"jpsmith123" he included any "_constructive_ criticism" of the Philippines?
Just curious.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 12:48:09 AM5/1/05
to
DirtySickPig wrote:
> jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.
>
> What was in your imagination before you boarded the aircraft to the
> Philippines?

I've been in other tropical third world countries. I was expecting
something similar.

>
> > I suppose I could eventually come to terms with the ridiculously
high
> > cost of living,
>
> How much money did you bring for your stay?

My "stay"? It was my intent to move here.

>
> > the poor quality and variety of goods available,
>
> What kind of goods did you expect?

Goods that aren't defective right out of the box, or that don't break
the first time you use them. Or at least goods that, if defective or
otherwise unsuitable, can be returned for my money back.

Even in your imagination? The same
> as the Chinese goods in the U.S.?

Yes, frankly.

>
> > outrageous land prices,
>
> Did you go there with the thought of buying land?

Well of course.

>
> > the unavailability of affordable financing,
>
> Did you notice all those Filipino real estate owners?

Well I should hope some Filipinos own some land, but what is your
point?

>
> > the insect problem,
>
> Insects are a problem? Where else is this a problem in the tropics?

I don't know. It's not as much of a problem in Panama, for example, I
can tell you that. I'm not "blaming" anyone for it; it's merely an
example of the type of hardship I can eventually cope with.

>
> > the pollution,
>
> You don't have to tell us this; we know.
>
> > the lousy food and food quality,
>
> What kind of foods did you expect? Even in your imagination?

Reasonably healthy food. Food with reasonable "value".

>
> > the manifest corruption that just pervades every aspect of this
society,
>
> "Manifest?" Kindly explain.

Clearly visible. That's what I mean.

>
> > the rankness
>
> You think you smell good to Filipinos?

Apparently not, but I was referring to people peeing in the middle of
the sidewalk, no soap in public bathrooms, uncovered food crawling with
flies, etc. That kind of rankness.

>
> > and ignorance of the people,
>
> On what subjects did you engage these ignorant people?

I'm talking about ignorance of basic manners; the type of ignorance
where someone jumps ahead of you in line, or refuses to let you out of
your seat on a bus, etc. I'm talking about unbelievable "pushiness" in
crowds, driving that goes beyond mere discourteousness to the point of
maliciousness, etc.

That sometimes happens in the U.S., obviously, but here it's the norm,
the way of life.

>
> > and last but not least, the bloody, never-ending violence.
>
> I know. Ever been to New York and Atlanta?

I'm not saying there's no crime in other places. But if you want to
compare overall numbers, the murder rate in the Philippines is
significantly higher than that of the U.S.

Taking another tropical 3rd world country with which I'm familiar, like
Panama, for example, and you'll see that murder rates are less than
half of those in the Philippines.

Moreover, the Philippine government seems to be more "tolerant" of
violent crime. And the gun laws, for example, aren't just restrictive
and discriminatory, but really incoherent.

>
> > What I cannot deal with in the Philippines is the gratuitous
racism.
>
> "Gratuitous?" Kindly explain.

I mean completely unnecessary...not even a pretense of legitimacy.
If you could show statistically for example that white people, when
allowed to have guns in the Philippines, commit far more crime with
guns than armed Filipinos, some may still call it racism, but I
wouldn't call it "gratuitous".

>
> > Filipinos can come to the U.S. and, without even becoming citizens,
are
> > allowed to get jobs, send money back home, buy and own property,
buy,
> > own and even carry firearms, etc. In fact, I've heard of rich
Filipinos
> > buying large tracts of land in California, and then subdividing and
> > only selling to other Filipinos.
>
> What is the land area of the United States? The Philippines?

Sheesh. What is the land area of Panama or Costa Rica?

>
> > So I go to the Philippines and find out (after considerable
> > inconvenience and time spent, and letting the Philippine government
> > shake me down for hundreds of dollars for legal permanent residence
> > status), I can't even own property - not even a few hundred square
> > meters for a residence;
>
> Aha! You did your homework! But on what country, though?

Try to find out about the *specifics* of land ownership or gun
ownership in the Philippines. (In all fairness however, the Philippines
isn't the only country which apparently doesn't make useful information
available online).

>
> > nor am I even allowed to buy a gun to protect
> > myself and my family.
>
> Shades of New York and Chicago, eh? Not even TOY GUNS in these two
places.

In some areas, gun laws are more restrictive, yes. But unless you're a
convicted felon, you can still have a gun, and, most importantly, there
is no distinction because an American and a "foreigner" there.

You, as a permanent resident in the U.S., have just as much right to
defend yourself and your family, as anyone else.

>
> > In a land where there are all kinds of rebels and moslem extremist
> > groups and criminals armed to the teeth with fully automatic
weapons,
> > running around slaughtering and kidnapping people, and where
> > "foreigners" such as myself are a prime target, yet we are the ones
> > specifically denied any legal means to protect ourselves.
>
> The best protection for you and your family was to stay away. Go to
the
> Middle East, for example. Or Eastern Europe. Very safe, those
places!

I don't necessarily have to live in a "very safe" place. I do, however,
demand my god given right to defend myself and my family, and I do
demand the "equal protection of the laws".

>
> > Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to escape
> > this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.
>
> Are you stuck? Marooned? Can't get out of the shithole?

You think it's easy to globe trot with 5 people (incl 3 kids.)?

That
> permanent resident status doesn't mean you can't leave the country.
Go
> ahead and blame the Philippines, the people, their government, etc.,
> etc., for your predicament.

Well who should I blame for their racism, the man in the moon?

>
> Are you aware that you are the one who sucks?

Coming from a moron like you, I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.

You went, without
> researching,

Not true.

to a foreign land to live there permanently, expecting it
> will bend over backwards

Valuing my life the same as everyone else somehow requires Filipinos to
"bend over backwords"?

Expecting the Philippine government to obey its own laws, for example,
is being unreasonable?

> to offer you Little USA.

That would be an insult. All I expected was reasonableness.

Then you come face to
> face with a different people, culture, government, economy and set of

> laws.

"Different" doesn't necessarily have to be racist or unfair or
illogical, does it? Maybe in your twisted mind it does.

Then you log on to soc.culture.filipino and say, "Boo hoo hoo!"

Sorry if by telling the truth I've offended your gentile sensibilities.

>
> Yes, sir or madam as the case may be, WE WILL SOLVE ALL YOUR MENTAL
> PROBLEMS FOR YOU here at SCF! Not. :D

Thanks for the thought, but maybe you should solve your own serious
mental problems first.

>
> Gago. Bobo. Plonkv.
>
> Unsympathetic Pig

Dirty, sick, pig isn't it? And apparently it fits.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 1:10:58 AM5/1/05
to

Huh?

>
>
> >
> >I don't necessarily have a problem with the locals' attitudes (to
the
> >extent they've expressed them, that is). It's the official racism
that
> >I cannot tolerate.
>
> Again, you may have been referring to the same sixth-grade level
education
> Barangay Captain.

And then what happened?

>
>
> >I call it as I see it. Just like when a blood thirsty, fascist
America
> >goes all over the world under the aegis of a fiction called "[T]he
War
> >on Terror", murdering innocent people by the thousands, to advance
its
> >immoral imperial agenda, I call that as I see it, too. And telling
the
> >ugly truth has gotten me into trouble.
>
> Now there's your problem right there.

You're right, it actually is a problem. Morally blind people and
statist apologists insult me for calling mass murder what it is, for
example.

In your mind you know more than
> everybody else.

Apparently I do. When the U.S. government slaughters 100,000 innocent
people that never attacked or threatened it in any way, I call it
murder. If that's not how you see it, then apparently I do know more
than you.

> No wonder nobody can stand you.

>From Galileo to Rev. Martin Niemöller to Martin Luther King, history
shows that those who have exposed unpopular truths, especially moral
truths, have always been hated. So, knock your socks off. Feel free to
hate me.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 1:35:01 AM5/1/05
to

We were both generalizing, I believe. And I admit my statements in this
thread reflect my anger and my accumulated frustration more than
anything else.

Since moving here, I have politely offered "constructive criticism" in
several areas, and it is usually politely rejected.

Chris Blunt

unread,
May 1, 2005, 3:10:45 AM5/1/05
to

What you say may be correct, but this guy didn't come here looking for
advice, he came looking for trouble.

If someone genuinely wanted help about living in the Philippines, who
in their right mind would start a thread entitled "The Philippines
really does suck" in a forum frequented mainly by Filipinos?

He then asked how other foreigners living here felt, and when I told
him I was happy in the country he concluded that I must be "gay or a


pedophile or sex-fiend of some kind"

Chris

inko...@wongfaye.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 5:02:59 AM5/1/05
to
.
>
> Money? What money?


You need money - property and all-to get a US visa. No poor people are
wanted in the US. You think a poor Filipino can just go to a US embassy
and apply for a visa?

>Everything's generally cheaper in the U.S.,

I don't know what state you are living in. In Palm Springs, CA where I
live everything is about 6 times more expensive in the Philippines.


and it's
> rather easy to get financing. You can practically work at Wal-Mart
and
> become a land baron.

And you can also lose your shirt in the US. If it were so easy why are
there so many foreclosures? Why are there so many poor people that do
not own their home?


>
> >
> > But most cannot get a bloody visa to go to the US unless they marry
a

> > Kano or are rich or have a profession that is in demand.


>
> Well, ok, now you're changing the subject.

I am not. This is how the unfairness balances itself out. Americans
cannot buy property in the Philippines but they can just walk into the
country. Filipinos can buy property there but unless they are rich or
with a special skill, most cannot even get into the country. For most
Filipinos immigrating to the US is very hard.


>
> > Second, most of "racism" you talk about is basically a problem of
> > citizenship, not race.
>
> Since "citizenship" status per se, in this case, clearly has no
> reasonable bearing on the issue of gun ownership (especially given
the
> other factors involved in the gun ownership process), I would argue
> that it is in fact racist or at least, supremacist

Maybe exclusivist. But they have the right to make the rules just like
the US has the right to make the rules on who to let into the US and
other such things. Recently they asked all citizens from Muslim
countries to register and things like that.

Anyway, in the Philippines you can become a citizen after a certain
period and own a gun. In many countries you cannot become a citizen at
all.


(if that's a
> distinction worth making).

It is. Because Filipinos are generally of mixed race and just about
every extended family has someone married to an American or some other
Westerner. Other Asians are not and there is a lot of racism against
Westerners there.

But they have a requirement that you need to be a citizen to own a gun.
It is their right.

It would be racist if the law was:" Only people with brown skin such as
Malaysians, Indonesians and Mexicans can own guns in the Philippines".
That would be based on race.


IOW, in making "citizenship" a requirement
> for gun ownersip, the government of the Philippines discriminates
> against me for no good reason that I can see, except that I'm not
> Filipino.

They do not want foreign citizens with guns in their country. It is
their right. The Us doe snot allwo tourists to own guns and get driver
licenses without a social security number or a valid stateside ID.


>
> It is not aimed at discriminating against white
> > people but at not granting certain rights to non-citizens.
>
> I think you're confusing "means" and "ends". I guess you could make
> that claim, but in order to be taken seriously, IMO, you'd have to
show
> that, in the case of say, defending my home from an armed intruder,
> formal citizenship status would somehow make some kind of a
reasonable
> difference to some legitimate function of government, wouldn't you?
>

It may be unfair in your opinion but as far as they are concerned they
do not want 50,000 Americans with guns in their country and another
20,000 Brits and some 10,000 Indians with guns. It is their right. But
do remember that you can become a citizen in the Philippines.

> I could see certain rights, say, like voting, being withheld from
legal
> residents vis-a-vis citizens, something where you could make a
> reasonable distinction between classes of people.
>
> (Don't forget, too, that the Philippine Constitution has an "equal
> protection clause", which should operate to prevent differential
> treatment based on arbitrary classifications).

>From this point of view it is unfair. But then most countries are
nationalistic and unfair to foreigners. Most aim at protecting thier
own from them. It is just a fact of life. We have to learn to live with
it and get around it.


>
> Most
> > countries do that. The US still bars non-citizens from certain jobs
> and
> > foreign-born citizens cannot pass many security clearances. That is
a
> > fact of life.
>
> Indeed. And it is quite reasonable.

Why is it reasonable for someone who came to the US at age 2 or 3 and
who does not rememember any other country to be dinied security
clearance. It is not his fault. He is a US citizen and has no other
citizenship. But many companies especially in the defense industry will
discriminate against that person. Why? I do not see why it is
reasonable. If the person had espionage convictions, then I would
understand.

And if tested, it has to pass
> Constitutional muster.

It probably did. Defense companies across the board discriminate
agaist foreign born citizens like there is no tomorrow.


> I'd say the Philippines really shakes down tourists, don't you think?
> Is it twenty one days, and then a 2000 peso fee for a renewal, I
think?
> Whereas in Panama, for example, it's ninety days, with a $5.00
renewal.

Again, it is their right to charge you whatever they want. At least
once you pay they give you the renewal. Other countries do not give you
any renewal even if you pay.

>
> Well sure. The government obviously has a duty to keep things
balanced.
> It's a complex legal, moral, and philosophical issue. I frankly don't
> know enough about it to discuss it in any great detail,
unfortunately.

Getting US visas is a nightmare. The immigration people in the US can
be as mean as junkyard dogs and very very rude and humiliating. Some
take sadistic pleasure in denying you visa in a very discretionary
manner. And if you look at all the immigrants in the US, you will only
see a tiny percentage of those who were allowed to get the visas. In
the Philippines you just walk in.


>
> On the face of it, I would agree completely. (The U.S. government has
> become completely immoral, in my view, as have many other
governments,
> as well).

Governments around the world do not care about their citizens. They are
there to protect large business interests. They form self-serving
cliques to enrich themselves. It's been like that since day 1.

The US embassy in RP cannot help you repatriate yourself if you are
robbed of all your money and are stuck there. They won't even give/loan
you $700 for your ticket home. You are on your own. But they happily
give millions in foreign aid to governments overseas as long as that
serves their interests. A small guy is of no concern to them. Starve,
die, for all they care.

Governments around the world suck. The only way to live is to be your
own government.


>
>
>
> Technically speaking, it would still be "racism". Look up the formal
> definition of "racism".
>

here it is:

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or
ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is this the case there? No it is not. Then they would be gladly selling
guns to fellow Asians- Japanese, Malaysians and the Koreans living
there. They would say something like- "White people are not allowed to
own guns but yellow and brown are". That is not the case, technically
or othewise. It is based on Filipino citizenship and they make the
rules because it is their country.

A bit off topic but still somewhat relevant. In the US foreign-born
people cannot become President. Even if they came to the country at the
age of 1 month and do not know any other country except the US. In the
media they will be called "immigrants" and the US will be called their
" adopted homeland" . Look at Irving Berlin. They still call him an
immigrant. You can't get more American than he. He came from Russia at
age 1. And he could never be president. This is discriminatory but it
is not "racism", it is "nativism". The US has its reasons to pass such
laws and there is still nothing you can do about that. They tried to
amend the constitution twice about that to no avail. I hope Arnold will
pave the way for other people who are not seen as 100% Americans.

How can a child who is a US citizen and who knows no country except the
US feel that the US is his country or be patriotic about it if he can
never hope to attain the highest office in the land?

I guess I am talking about different things here but what I am saying
is that the problem with citizenship is based on the gov't's
discretionary right to make laws. In the Philippines you * can* become
a citizen after some years and this is something you can change. It is
"citizenshipism" not racism. And you can change your citizenship in RP.

> >
> > There is a provision in the constitution of the RP whereby you can
> > become a Filipino citizen. Then you will be able to own property.
>
> It is a theoretical possibility, but as a practical matter, it is
> almost a moot point. Moreover, even if I wanted to do that, it would
> take several years.

So? In the US permanent residency takes two years. Citizenship -five
years. The US gov't makes the rules. RP gov't makes their rules. We
cannot control those. We can however find ways to legally circumvent
them at times.


>
> The issue is that I am here right now, living here with and among
> everyone else. For purposes of wanting and needing to protect my
> family, I am completely indistinguishable from the Filipino next door
-
> and therein lies the immorality of the differential treatment.

Such are the laws. If you want the gun then, you can ask your wife to
buy it and teach her how to use it.

> Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the culture in those
> countries.

It sucks. As a white man you are discriminated against 1000 times more
than in RP where you are mostly welcome and are given a high status in
many situations. Within the context of Asia RP is still the best.

inko...@wongfaye.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 5:17:16 AM5/1/05
to
>Please, rebut this guy if you must, but don't lay on >the bullshit the
way he
>did. A Filipino of Chinese ethnicity, even if third or >fourth
generation
>Philippine born, is still a Chinaman.

Informally but not by law. Does it say in his documents- citizenship :
"Chinese?" He will not be banned from owning property, guns, and not
need extensions to stay in the country. That is what I am talking
about. The Chinese won buldings and businesses in RP like you would not
believe.

Now in the informal level it does exist, I admit. But that is a social
problem not legal.

> He's barely tolerated and, if successful,
>a target by both the police and gangsters. He's not >accepted and he
never will
>be.

So, it is ethnic and social discrimination but not legal except when
trying to hold highest political office. It is the same with Jews,
Turks and Arabs in Europe.

>From what I know if you are mixed with the Malay population over the
generations you will be a full Filipino. The Chinese like to marry
their own to preserve the purity of the blood. So why do you move to
another country and do not mix? There are so many gorgeous girls who
will marry a Chinese guy. In Cebu many people are mixed with the
Chinese.

How can the Chinese stay in a country so full of attractive people and
keep marrying other pale Chinese?

Want your children to be accepted as full Filipinos? Start making
babies with those cute Filipina girls.

Boracay Bill

unread,
May 1, 2005, 6:37:05 AM5/1/05
to
You said:
<snip>

Try to find out about the *specifics* of land ownership or gun
ownership in the Philippines. (In all fairness however, the Philippines

isn't the only country which apparently doesn't make useful information

available online).
<snip>


Following is some info I posted here on 5 April:

Article XII Section 7 and 8 of the current RP constitution read as
follows:

Section 7. Save in cases of hereditary succession, no
private lands shall be transferred or conveyed except to
individuals, corporations, or associations qualified to
acquire or hold lands of the public domain.


Section 8. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 7 of
this Article, a natural-born citizen of the Philippines
who has lost his Philippine citizenship may be a
transferee of private lands, subject to limitations
provided by law.


That bit in Section 7 about "qualified to acquire or hold lands in the
public domain" refers back to language in Article XII Section 2 which
essentially excludes persons who are not RP citizens.


See http://www.chanrobles.com/phil­supremelaw1.htm


That bit about "a natural-born citizen of the Philippines who has lost
his Philippine citizenship" leads us to BP185 and RA7042....


Any natural-born citizen of the Philippines who has lost his/her
Philippine citizenship and who has the legal capacity to enter into a
contract under Philippine laws may be a transferee of a private land
up to a maximum area of one thousand square meters, in the case of
urban land, or one hectare in the case of rural land, to be used by
him as his residence. This comes from BATAS PAMBANSA BILANG 185. See
http://www.chanrobles.com/bata­spambansabilang185.htm


Any natural-born citizen of the Philippines who has lost his/her
Philippine citizenship and who has the legal capacity to enter into a
contract under Philippine laws may be a transferee of a private land
up to a maximum area of five thousand [5,000] square meters in the
case of urban land or three [3] hectares in the case of rural land, to
be used by him for business or other purposes. This comes from
Republic Act No. 7042. See
http://www.chanrobles.com/defa­ult8fia91.htm


Also, a person who was born an RP citizen and has lost RP citizenship
by reason of foreign naturalization can now easily reacquire RP
citizenship. Land acquired while the RP citizenship was not in effect,

however, might arguably be subject to the limitiations set out in BP185

and RA7042.


Regarding citizinship reacquisition, see
http://www.chanrobles.com/repu­blicactno9225.html
and
http://www.chanrobles.com/repu­blicactno9225rules.html


Standard disclaimer applies: I'm not a lawyer; if you want a more
informed opinion, consult a properly trained and licensed RP lawyer

Cheeze

unread,
May 1, 2005, 7:21:02 AM5/1/05
to

jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
> In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.
>
> I suppose I could eventually come to terms with the ridiculously high
> cost of living, the poor quality and variety of goods available,
> outrageous land prices, the unavailability of affordable financing,
the
> insect problem, the pollution, the lousy food and food quality, the

> manifest corruption that just pervades every aspect of this society,
> the rankness and ignorance of the people, and last but not least, the
> bloody, never-ending violence.
>

> What I cannot deal with in the Philippines is the gratuitous racism.
>
> Filipinos can come to the U.S. and, without even becoming citizens,
are
> allowed to get jobs, send money back home, buy and own property, buy,
> own and even carry firearms, etc. In fact, I've heard of rich
Filipinos
> buying large tracts of land in California, and then subdividing and
> only selling to other Filipinos.
>
> So I go to the Philippines and find out (after considerable
> inconvenience and time spent, and letting the Philippine government
> shake me down for hundreds of dollars for legal permanent residence
> status), I can't even own property - not even a few hundred square
> meters for a residence; nor am I even allowed to buy a gun to protect
> myself and my family.
>

> In a land where there are all kinds of rebels and moslem extremist
> groups and criminals armed to the teeth with fully automatic weapons,
> running around slaughtering and kidnapping people, and where
> "foreigners" such as myself are a prime target, yet we are the ones
> specifically denied any legal means to protect ourselves.
>
> Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to escape
> this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.

The no foreigner may own land rule, it was explained to me was a result
of the Mexico-Texas experience. Never studied american history, but
someone was owning foreign land and eventually took over the country.
That's about the gist of it that I'm aware of.

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 7:32:49 AM5/1/05
to
o you are talking about california, texas, new mexixo etc land that
mexico used to own then the american settlers came and bought land.
next thing you know those land became part of the us.

Cheeze

unread,
May 1, 2005, 7:57:11 AM5/1/05
to

Wow that's a lot of land... never realized.

So see, its not racism but the result of intense objective study.

As for the gun, if in a man's home, he sets a rule that you could not
come in with a gun, he would be completely within his rights to deny
entry. In fact legally speaking, any country allows a foreigner to
enter only on a mere whim.

The right to freedom of abode and travel, I'm happy to say are reserved
to people who have sworn allegiance to the country.

The rules are the same everywhere.

Mr. Smith, are you sure your name aint Bobby Fischer?

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 8:01:08 AM5/1/05
to
does boracay bill own guns? he got a resort thu .

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 8:04:17 AM5/1/05
to
if you really want to get a gun permit heres what you can do .
befriend a high ranking police or military type. buy him food , drink
etc... then tell him you want a gun permit. chances are you will get
it. other filipinos go to that route. but you better hide your
caustic attitude or they might kill you too. its a double edge sword
befriending the crocodiles. once you hatch on to them they will
stick with you like glue so be prepared to pay and feed em till they
retire but they can take care of you too .

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 8:09:51 AM5/1/05
to
Hello Boracay Bill,

I've been to the Chan Robles site before. Unfortunately, it seems to
have no search engine, which makes things more difficult.

While the information there is useful to an extent, what I obviously
want to see is comprehensive, practical information, spelled out in
plain language, regarding property ownership by "foreigners" in the
Philippines.

The only site I eventually found (but not until after I moved here), is
here: http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/42/Real_Estate_in_Asia.html

Apparently, a Filipino non-citizen can buy land, but a white person
non-citizen, even thought they may be a legal permanent resident,
married to a Filipina, can not. In my view, this obviously goes way
beyond "protecting" the Philippines from "predatory"
foreigners...unfortunately, I see it as simply another manifestation of
Filipino racism.

Regards,
Joe

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 8:23:53 AM5/1/05
to
Hello Carlos,

I've thought about doing what you suggest, or about simply arming
myself illegally, or even possibly trying to sue the government under
the equal protection clause, but I've become so disgusted, I'm probably
going to just to get out of here, as costly and inconvenient as it may
be.

Regards,
Joe

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 8:27:50 AM5/1/05
to
there you go. that way everybody is happy. you are happy. other
people are happy. all is well in this world. i suggest you go to
cancun mexico. you will like it there at this time of year.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 8:52:11 AM5/1/05
to

Cheeze wrote:
> carlosbongo...@aol.com wrote:
> > o you are talking about california, texas, new mexixo etc land
that
> > mexico used to own then the american settlers came and bought
land.
> > next thing you know those land became part of the us.
>
> Wow that's a lot of land... never realized.
>
> So see, its not racism but the result of intense objective study.
>
> As for the gun, if in a man's home, he sets a rule that you could not
> come in with a gun, he would be completely within his rights to deny
> entry.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. To the extent I
do understand, I believe your analogy which compares a home ownwer to a
government (especially a democratic republic), and a guest to a legal
permanent resident, is not very good.

In any case, your moral argument is that racism, as long as it involves
certain issues like gun ownership, is ok? In other words, the home
owner's "whim" to disallow gun posession based solely on national
origin, or skin color, for example, essentially outweighs my right to
defend my life and that of my family?

In fact legally speaking, any country allows a foreigner to
> enter only on a mere whim.

Depending on the definition of "foreigner", legally speaking, countries
that portray themselves as modern "democratic republics", especially
countries like the U.S. and the Philippines, which incorporate an
"equal protection clause" into their constitutions, cannot legally (or
morally, for that matter) discriminate against people within their
jurisdictions based solely on a "mere whim".

>
> The right to freedom of abode and travel, I'm happy to say are
reserved
> to people who have sworn allegiance to the country.

To the extent I understand what you're trying to say, I suppose I would
have to disagree with your statement.

>
> The rules are the same everywhere.

Huh?

>
> Mr. Smith, are you sure your name aint Bobby Fischer?

Quite sure. What does Bobby Fischer have to do with this subject
matter?

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 9:46:43 AM5/1/05
to
So, if a "foreigner" is allowed to buy a few hundred square meters of
land for a residence, the next thing you know, the Philippines will be
overrun by millions of "foreigners" who will then organize themselves
and take over the country by force? Would that necessarily be so bad
under the circumstances? LOL!

Hmmm...what if they come here and only rent, yet decide to take over
the country anyway? Or is there historical evidence that renters don't
have such tendendcies to "conquer" their host country?

Does that sound reasonable to you? It doesn't sound reasonable to me.
(Then again, we're talking about a country that, for example, makes a
significant legal distinction, penalty-wise, between carrying an
illegal 9mm pistol vs carrying an illegal 45 caliber pistol).

Anyway, I think maybe it's too late. It seems aliens from outer space
have already taken over the Philippines.

Cheeze wrote:

<snip>

inko...@wongfaye.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 11:43:22 AM5/1/05
to

> Apparently, a Filipino non-citizen can buy land, but a white person
> non-citizen, even thought they may be a legal permanent resident,
> married to a Filipina, can not. In my view, this obviously goes way
> beyond "protecting" the Philippines from "predatory"
> foreigners...unfortunately, I see it as simply another manifestation
of
> Filipino racism.
>

It does not have anything to do with being white or brown. It has to do
with nativism- being native-born. Itis not racism. It is
discrimination against people who are not born in the country. Many
colonial countries have that thing.

You obviously have not seen pure Spanish Filipinos- many of these are
blond - same as people in the North of Spain. Very very white. These
have been in the country for 400 years. You can occasionally see them
at the Manila airport. There is no provison that these cannot own
land.

America has a similar provision that non-natives cannot become
president and as I have mentioned before, many will be refused security
clearance for quite a few gov't jobs even if the arrived in the US at
age 1.

Their country, their rules.

tumbaga

unread,
May 1, 2005, 12:56:56 PM5/1/05
to

You don't really need a gun permit in the Philippines, just be ready
with cash when caught.

DirtySickPig

unread,
May 1, 2005, 1:04:24 PM5/1/05
to
Chris Blunt wrote:

> He then asked how other foreigners living here felt, and when I told
> him I was happy in the country he concluded that I must be "gay or a
> pedophile or sex-fiend of some kind"

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
Bwhihihihihihihihihihihihi!

Jack Pig Nicholson

DirtySickPig

unread,
May 1, 2005, 3:21:33 PM5/1/05
to
jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> DirtySickPig wrote:
>
>>jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.
>>
>>What was in your imagination before you boarded the aircraft to the
>>Philippines?
>
> I've been in other tropical third world countries. I was expecting
> something similar.

The Philippines is SUBTROPICAL. Surprise!

>>>I suppose I could eventually come to terms with the ridiculously
>>>high cost of living,
>>
>>How much money did you bring for your stay?
>
> My "stay"? It was my intent to move here.

How much money did you bring for your permanent stay?

>> > the poor quality and variety of goods available,
>>
>>What kind of goods did you expect?
>
> Goods that aren't defective right out of the box, or that don't break
> the first time you use them. Or at least goods that, if defective or
> otherwise unsuitable, can be returned for my money back.
>
> Even in your imagination? The same
>>as the Chinese goods in the U.S.?
>
> Yes, frankly.
>
>>>outrageous land prices,
>>
>>Did you go there with the thought of buying land?
>
> Well of course.

Aha! You did your research. Again: What country?

>>>the unavailability of affordable financing,
>>
>>Did you notice all those Filipino real estate owners?
>
> Well I should hope some Filipinos own some land, but what is your
> point?

That there is affordable financing.

>>>the insect problem,
>>
>>Insects are a problem? Where else is this a problem in the tropics?
>
> I don't know. It's not as much of a problem in Panama, for example, I
> can tell you that.
> I'm not "blaming" anyone for it; it's merely an
> example of the type of hardship I can eventually cope with.

>>>the pollution,
>>
>>You don't have to tell us this; we know.
>>
>>>the lousy food and food quality,
>>
>>What kind of foods did you expect? Even in your imagination?
>
> Reasonably healthy food. Food with reasonable "value".

You don't like fresh food? That's standard in the Philippines. Frozen
foods are laughed at.

>>>the manifest corruption that just pervades every aspect of this
>
> society,
>
>>"Manifest?" Kindly explain.
>
> Clearly visible. That's what I mean.

Thank you.

>>>the rankness
>>
>>You think you smell good to Filipinos?
>
> Apparently not, but I was referring to people peeing in the middle of
> the sidewalk, no soap in public bathrooms, uncovered food crawling with
> flies, etc. That kind of rankness.
>
>>>and ignorance of the people,
>>
>>On what subjects did you engage these ignorant people?
>
> I'm talking about ignorance of basic manners; the type of ignorance
> where someone jumps ahead of you in line, or refuses to let you out of
> your seat on a bus, etc. I'm talking about unbelievable "pushiness" in
> crowds, driving that goes beyond mere discourteousness to the point of
> maliciousness, etc.

Different culture. What would you think your wife's experience will be
in Japan, for example?

> That sometimes happens in the U.S., obviously, but here it's the norm,
> the way of life.

If you feel that it's the way of life, would you ride along or will you
fight it until Philippine society is finally bent to your liking?

>>>and last but not least, the bloody, never-ending violence.
>>
>>I know. Ever been to New York and Atlanta?
>
> I'm not saying there's no crime in other places. But if you want to
> compare overall numbers, the murder rate in the Philippines is
> significantly higher than that of the U.S.

Bad. But you found this out in your research, right?

> Taking another tropical 3rd world country with which I'm familiar, like
> Panama, for example, and you'll see that murder rates are less than
> half of those in the Philippines.

Been there. You're either blind or lying.

> Moreover, the Philippine government seems to be more "tolerant" of
> violent crime. And the gun laws, for example, aren't just restrictive
> and discriminatory, but really incoherent.
>
>>>What I cannot deal with in the Philippines is the gratuitous racism.
>
>>"Gratuitous?" Kindly explain.
>
> I mean completely unnecessary...not even a pretense of legitimacy.
> If you could show statistically for example that white people, when
> allowed to have guns in the Philippines, commit far more crime with
> guns than armed Filipinos, some may still call it racism, but I
> wouldn't call it "gratuitous".

It's not race. It's a matter of rights. Non-Filipinos have no right to
own firearms, among others. What does the Philippine constitution say
about firearm ownership?

>>>Filipinos can come to the U.S. and, without even becoming citizens,
>>>are allowed to get jobs, send money back home, buy and own property,
>>>buy, own and even carry firearms, etc. In fact, I've heard of rich
>>>Filipinos buying large tracts of land in California, and then
>>>subdividing and only selling to other Filipinos.
>>
>>What is the land area of the United States? The Philippines?
>
> Sheesh. What is the land area of Panama or Costa Rica?

I wouldn't buy land in Panama. Costa Rica makes catering to American
expatriates a national industry.

>>>So I go to the Philippines and find out (after considerable
>>>inconvenience and time spent, and letting the Philippine government
>>>shake me down for hundreds of dollars for legal permanent residence
>>>status), I can't even own property - not even a few hundred square
>>>meters for a residence;
>>
>>Aha! You did your homework! But on what country, though?
>
> Try to find out about the *specifics* of land ownership or gun
> ownership in the Philippines. (In all fairness however, the Philippines
> isn't the only country which apparently doesn't make useful information
> available online).

Talk to people. Talk to lawyers. You failed to talk to people who
could have provided you all the information YOU FAILED to obtain from
the Internet.

>>>nor am I even allowed to buy a gun to protect
>>>myself and my family.

Air rifles and pistols made in the Philippines are more powerful than
some powder arms. There is even a pneumatic bazooka that shoots several
crossbow bolts with one whoosh. Then there are bows, arrows, traps,
alarms, other noisemakers and dogs. Personal defense is not limited to
firearms. You just got to have a gun and you're using defense to
rationalize your craving.

>>Shades of New York and Chicago, eh? Not even TOY GUNS in these two
> places.
>
> In some areas, gun laws are more restrictive, yes. But unless you're a
> convicted felon, you can still have a gun, and, most importantly, there
> is no distinction because an American and a "foreigner" there.
>
> You, as a permanent resident in the U.S., have just as much right to
> defend yourself and your family, as anyone else.

Of course. I made sure I was born and bred in the U.S. I have 48
different firearms in my home armory. Full automatics too. :)

>>>In a land where there are all kinds of rebels and moslem extremist
>>>groups and criminals armed to the teeth with fully automatic weapons,
>>>running around slaughtering and kidnapping people, and where
>>>"foreigners" such as myself are a prime target, yet we are the ones
>>>specifically denied any legal means to protect ourselves.
>>
>>The best protection for you and your family was to stay away. Go to
>>the Middle East, for example. Or Eastern Europe. Very safe, those
> places!
>
> I don't necessarily have to live in a "very safe" place. I do, however,
> demand my god given right to defend myself and my family, and I do
> demand the "equal protection of the laws".

Nobody took those away from you. A Louisville Slugger can be deadlier
than a pistol.

>>>Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to escape
>>>this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.
>>
>>Are you stuck? Marooned? Can't get out of the shithole?
>
> You think it's easy to globe trot with 5 people (incl 3 kids.)?

I'm a military brat. That doesn't even raise a pimple with me.

>>That permanent resident status doesn't mean you can't leave the country.
>>Go ahead and blame the Philippines, the people, their government, etc.,
>>etc., for your predicament.
>
> Well who should I blame for their racism, the man in the moon?

Most people who perceive racism for other things are racists themselves.

>>Are you aware that you are the one who sucks?
>
> Coming from a moron like you, I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.

You're welcome. Compared to you, though, I'm a genius.

>>You went, without researching,
>
> Not true.

Bovine excrement. All your perceived troubles so far are the results of
ignorance, ignorance that could have been fixed with proper research.

>> to a foreign land to live there permanently, expecting itwill bend over backwards


>
> Valuing my life the same as everyone else somehow requires Filipinos to
> "bend over backwords"?

Ok. Tell me how many Filipino households have firearms.

> Expecting the Philippine government to obey its own laws, for example,
> is being unreasonable?

Have you tried suing the U.S. government? Do you want pointers?

>>to offer you Little USA.
>
> That would be an insult. All I expected was reasonableness.

Unreasonable people usually perceive unreasonableness in almost everything.

>>Then you come face toface with a different people, culture, government, economy and set of


>>laws.
>
> "Different" doesn't necessarily have to be racist or unfair or
> illogical, does it? Maybe in your twisted mind it does.

You expected to be understood by Filipinos. How far have you gone
trying to understand them?

>>Then you log on to soc.culture.filipino and say, "Boo hoo hoo!"
>
> Sorry if by telling the truth I've offended your gentile sensibilities.

So I'm Gentile, huh? How would you feel if I yell "anti-Semitism!"?

>>Yes, sir or madam as the case may be, WE WILL SOLVE ALL YOUR MENTAL
>>PROBLEMS FOR YOU here at SCF! Not. :D
>
> Thanks for the thought, but maybe you should solve your own serious
> mental problems first.
>
>>Gago. Bobo. Plonkv.
>>
>>Unsympathetic Pig
>
> Dirty, sick, pig isn't it? And apparently it fits.

It does. Keep going, bobo, and you will find out how well I wear it.

Unsympathetic Dirty Sick Pig
LOL! ROTFL! PIMP!

Double Eight

unread,
May 1, 2005, 6:28:57 PM5/1/05
to
Great post, Chris.

Double Eight

unread,
May 1, 2005, 6:34:02 PM5/1/05
to
Hmmm they already do. Except the Filipino-Chinese pairings are not the
"official" family of the Chinese guy. It happens quite frequently that
some Chinese men marry Chinese women for their "official" family and
have Filipina 'wives' for second family. It is not uncommon. I don't
think this is peculiar to chinese per se since many Filipino men
(mestizo or otherwise) do this as well.

Boracay Bill

unread,
May 1, 2005, 7:50:53 PM5/1/05
to
>It does not have anything to do with being white or brown. It has to
do
>with nativism- being native-born. Itis not racism. It is
>discrimination against people who are not born in the country. Many
>colonial countries have that thing.

Actually the question of having been born in the country has nothing
whatever to do with the question of RP citizenship.

For persons born between 1935 and 1973, the 1935 constitution applies:

ARTICLE IV
Citizenship
Section 1. The following are citizens of the Philippines:

(1) Those who are citizens of the Philippine Islands at the time of the
adoption of this Constitution.

(2) Those born in the Philippine Islands of foreign parents who, before
the adoption of this Constitution, had been elected to public office in
the Philippine Islands.

(3) Those whose fathers are citizens of the Philippines.

(4) Those whose mothers are citizens of the Philippines and, upon
reaching the age of majority, elect Philippine citizenship.

(5) Those who are naturalized in accordance with law.

For persons born between 1973 and 1987, the 1973 constitution applies:

ARTICLE III
Citizenship
Section 1. The following are citizens of the Philippines:

(1) Those who are citizens of the Philippines at the time of the
adoption of this Constitution.

(2) Those whose fathers and mothers are citizens of the Philippines.

(3) Those who elect Philippine citizenship pursuant to the provisions
of the Constitution of nineteen hundred and thirty-five.
<snip>
Section 4. A natural-born citizen is one who is a citizen of the
Philippines from birth without having to perform any act to acquire or
perfect his Philippine citizenship.

For persons born from 1987 onwards, the 1987 constitution applies:

ARTICLE IV
CITIZENSHIP
Section 1. The following are citizens of the Philippines:

Those who are citizens of the Philippines at the time of the adoption
of this Constitution;
Those whose fathers or mothers are citizens of the Philippines;
Those born before January 17, 1973, of Filipino mothers, who elect
Philippine citizenship upon reaching the age of majority; and
Those who are naturalized in accordance with law.

Section 2. Natural-born citizens are those who are citizens of the
Philippines from birth without having to perform any act to acquire or
perfect their Philippine citizenship. Those who elect Philippine
citizenship in accordance with paragraph (3), Section 1 hereof shall be
deemed natural-born citizens.

Actually, there is a bit of a disagreement there. The 1973
constitution specifies "fathers and mothers", and the 1987 constitution
seems to have loosened that to "fathers or mothers" for persons born
between 1973 and 1987.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 1, 2005, 11:06:07 PM5/1/05
to

From: "" <jpsmi...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: The Philippines really does suck.
Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 19:50:57 -0700


DirtySickPig wrote:
> jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > DirtySickPig wrote:
> >
> >>jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>In fact, it's worse than I ever could have imagined.
> >>
> >>What was in your imagination before you boarded the aircraft to the
> >>Philippines?
> >
> > I've been in other tropical third world countries. I was expecting
> > something similar.
>
> The Philippines is SUBTROPICAL. Surprise!

WOW! That is a surprise! So, now they moved the Philippines on me? Last
I knew, it was roughly between 4 and 21 degrees North latitude; and
therefore by definition "tropical", being between the Tropic of Cancer
and the Tropic of Capricorn as such.

>
> >>>I suppose I could eventually come to terms with the ridiculously
> >>>high cost of living,
> >>
> >>How much money did you bring for your stay?
> >
> > My "stay"? It was my intent to move here.
>
> How much money did you bring for your permanent stay?

Enough to get by on in the U.S.

>
> >> > the poor quality and variety of goods available,
> >>
> >>What kind of goods did you expect?
> >
> > Goods that aren't defective right out of the box, or that don't
break
> > the first time you use them. Or at least goods that, if defective
or
> > otherwise unsuitable, can be returned for my money back.
> >
> > Even in your imagination? The same
> >>as the Chinese goods in the U.S.?
> >
> > Yes, frankly.
> >
> >>>outrageous land prices,
> >>
> >>Did you go there with the thought of buying land?
> >
> > Well of course.
>
> Aha! You did your research. Again: What country?
>
> >>>the unavailability of affordable financing,
> >>
> >>Did you notice all those Filipino real estate owners?
> >
> > Well I should hope some Filipinos own some land, but what is your
> > point?
>
> That there is affordable financing.

I don't consider a 12 to 15% (adjustable upward) interest rate on a
mortgage to be affordable.
That's probably why you see stagnant, partially completed structures
all over the place here.

>
> >>>the insect problem,
> >>
> >>Insects are a problem? Where else is this a problem in the
tropics?
> >
> > I don't know. It's not as much of a problem in Panama, for example,
I
> > can tell you that.
> > I'm not "blaming" anyone for it; it's merely an
> > example of the type of hardship I can eventually cope with.
>
> >>>the pollution,
> >>
> >>You don't have to tell us this; we know.
> >>
> >>>the lousy food and food quality,
> >>
> >>What kind of foods did you expect? Even in your imagination?
> >
> > Reasonably healthy food. Food with reasonable "value".
>
> You don't like fresh food? That's standard in the Philippines.
Frozen
> foods are laughed at.

If you're used to the U.S., as I am, and you go into to a restaurant
here, you usually leave hungry.

In general (except maybe in the case of fresh fish) to get the same
amount of food you get in a U.S. restaurant, you pay more here. There
are some exceptions however.

Moreover, if you happen to get a piece of chicken in a restaurant here,
for example, that has literally no meat on it, and you complain and ask
for another one, they'll tell you "too bad".

I don't even eat in restaurants here anymore because you really don't
know what you're going to get, even at the same restaurant.

The general Filipino business philosophy seems to be: it's better to
lose you a customer than it is to address a valid complaint. Given such
attitudes and thinking here, it's not hard to see why the Philippines
is having problems.

It's really hard to excuse the kind of widespread, extreme impoliteness
I've seen here as a mere cultural difference.

>
> > That sometimes happens in the U.S., obviously, but here it's the
norm,
> > the way of life.
>
> If you feel that it's the way of life, would you ride along or will
you
> fight it until Philippine society is finally bent to your liking?

For example, I've tried to talk to Philippine Immigration Officers
about making some changes. I've tried talking to politicians about
making some changes. None of it to any avail. They don't even pretend
to listen. They apparently know best, about everything, always.

The thought did occur to try a lawsuit. I'm still looking into it.

>
> >>>and last but not least, the bloody, never-ending violence.
> >>
> >>I know. Ever been to New York and Atlanta?
> >
> > I'm not saying there's no crime in other places. But if you want to
> > compare overall numbers, the murder rate in the Philippines is
> > significantly higher than that of the U.S.
>
> Bad. But you found this out in your research, right?
>
> > Taking another tropical 3rd world country with which I'm familiar,
like
> > Panama, for example, and you'll see that murder rates are less than
> > half of those in the Philippines.
>
> Been there. You're either blind or lying.

Or possibly just mistaken, in which case I'll be glad to retract my
claim. Anyway, you did research on crime in Panama? Please post a link
to your credible documentation in support, upon seeing which I'll
retract my claim.

>
> > Moreover, the Philippine government seems to be more "tolerant" of
> > violent crime. And the gun laws, for example, aren't just
restrictive
> > and discriminatory, but really incoherent.
> >
> >>>What I cannot deal with in the Philippines is the gratuitous
racism.
> >
> >>"Gratuitous?" Kindly explain.
> >
> > I mean completely unnecessary...not even a pretense of legitimacy.
> > If you could show statistically for example that white people, when
> > allowed to have guns in the Philippines, commit far more crime with
> > guns than armed Filipinos, some may still call it racism, but I
> > wouldn't call it "gratuitous".
>
> It's not race.

Well sure it is, or at least, it's a matter of discrimination based on
national origin.

> It's a matter of rights.

LOL! Obviously. It's a matter of me being denied something routinely
given to others *FOR NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON*.

Non-Filipinos have no right to
> own firearms, among others.

Exactly! I think maybe you're starting to see it! Under the
circumstances, that's racism!

I live here in the Philippines, legally. I am not a tourist. It has
cost me about one thousand dollars (not including moving expenses) and
considerable inconvenience (including a criminal background check) to
become a legal permanent resident here. I have possessions here. I have
family here. For all practical purposes, I am indistinguishable from
the Filipino head of household next door.

I have the same right to protect my life, the lives of my family, and
my possessions, as anyone else here, unless the Philippine government
can come up with a damn good reason why not.
Just because "[I'm] not Filipino" doesn't quite cut it.

What does the Philippine constitution say
> about firearm ownership?

Nothing.

>
> >>>Filipinos can come to the U.S. and, without even becoming
citizens,
> >>>are allowed to get jobs, send money back home, buy and own
property,
> >>>buy, own and even carry firearms, etc. In fact, I've heard of rich
> >>>Filipinos buying large tracts of land in California, and then
> >>>subdividing and only selling to other Filipinos.
> >>
> >>What is the land area of the United States? The Philippines?
> >
> > Sheesh. What is the land area of Panama or Costa Rica?
>
> I wouldn't buy land in Panama.

Irrelevant. The point is that you could. And look at Panama today. I
believe it is the fastest growing economy in Central America. Money is
pouring into Panama from all over the world.
Unlike the Philippines, things are looking up there.

I suggested to Philippine officials that they consider creating some
incentives to entice retirees, especially Filipino retirees, to come
here LIKE PANAMA DOES. And in the typical Filipino way, my suggestions
were rejected out of hand.

It's sad, it really is.


Costa Rica makes catering to American
> expatriates a national industry.

Not as much as Panama does (for retirees at least). Panama has probably
the best incentive package in the world. They're smart. And it's paying
off, big-time.

>
> >>>So I go to the Philippines and find out (after considerable
> >>>inconvenience and time spent, and letting the Philippine
government
> >>>shake me down for hundreds of dollars for legal permanent
residence
> >>>status), I can't even own property - not even a few hundred square
> >>>meters for a residence;
> >>
> >>Aha! You did your homework! But on what country, though?
> >
> > Try to find out about the *specifics* of land ownership or gun
> > ownership in the Philippines. (In all fairness however, the
Philippines
> > isn't the only country which apparently doesn't make useful
information
> > available online).
>
> Talk to people. Talk to lawyers. You failed to talk to people who
> could have provided you all the information YOU FAILED to obtain from

> the Internet.

Yo, piggy, not even lawyers over here, lawyers over here who have
personally written books on the subject of gun ownership in the
Philippines, have been able to explain to me Philippine gun laws
relating to "foreigners".

>
> >>>nor am I even allowed to buy a gun to protect
> >>>myself and my family.
>
> Air rifles and pistols made in the Philippines are more powerful than

> some powder arms. There is even a pneumatic bazooka that shoots
several
> crossbow bolts with one whoosh. Then there are bows, arrows, traps,
> alarms, other noisemakers and dogs. Personal defense is not limited
to
> firearms. You just got to have a gun and you're using defense to
> rationalize your craving.

Look, I can probably go get a gun "illegally" tomorrow. That's really
not the point anymore.
The point is the racism. The very thought that the Philippine
government takes the position it does, that is, denying me my basic
right of self-defense and property ownership, has essentially ruined my
attempt to relocate here. I'm not going to stay where I'm not wanted.

>
> >>Shades of New York and Chicago, eh? Not even TOY GUNS in these two
> > places.
> >
> > In some areas, gun laws are more restrictive, yes. But unless
you're a
> > convicted felon, you can still have a gun, and, most importantly,
there
> > is no distinction because an American and a "foreigner" there.
> >
> > You, as a permanent resident in the U.S., have just as much right
to
> > defend yourself and your family, as anyone else.
>
> Of course. I made sure I was born and bred in the U.S.

LOL! Good for you. Most people don't have much choice over where
they're born and raised.
Having suffered the hardships you have, I guess you can really relate
to the Philippines.

I have 48
> different firearms in my home armory. Full automatics too. :)

Wow! I guess you would certainly know how if feels to be totally
disarmed.

>
> >>>In a land where there are all kinds of rebels and moslem extremist
> >>>groups and criminals armed to the teeth with fully automatic
weapons,
> >>>running around slaughtering and kidnapping people, and where
> >>>"foreigners" such as myself are a prime target, yet we are the
ones
> >>>specifically denied any legal means to protect ourselves.
> >>
> >>The best protection for you and your family was to stay away. Go
to
> >>the Middle East, for example. Or Eastern Europe. Very safe, those
> > places!
> >
> > I don't necessarily have to live in a "very safe" place. I do,
however,
> > demand my god given right to defend myself and my family, and I do
> > demand the "equal protection of the laws".
>
> Nobody took those away from you. A Louisville Slugger can be
deadlier
> than a pistol.

LOL! You're funny! Why not give up your home arsenal and get a good
Louisville slugger, then?

A typical home break-in in this part of the Philippines usually
involves 4 to 5 perpetrators. Did you know that?

>
> >>>Now I see why Filipinos are willing to do almost anything to
escape
> >>>this pathetic excuse for a country. It really does suck.
> >>
> >>Are you stuck? Marooned? Can't get out of the shithole?
> >
> > You think it's easy to globe trot with 5 people (incl 3 kids.)?
>
> I'm a military brat. That doesn't even raise a pimple with me.

ROTFLMAO! Well of course not. Your family didn't have to pay for a
thing.

And now it seems you're a civilian DOD employee, right?

So, you're a U.S. citizen (half-Filipino?) that merely comes here once
in a while to check-up on your business here? (And I hope you're at
least exporting something).

You're an "armchair" Filipino, criticizing me over here "in the
trenches" from the comfort of your plush U.S. DOD supported lifestyle.

I guess that's why you don't even know what a tropical country is.

>
> >>That permanent resident status doesn't mean you can't leave the
country.
> >>Go ahead and blame the Philippines, the people, their government,
etc.,
> >>etc., for your predicament.
> >
> > Well who should I blame for their racism, the man in the moon?
>
> Most people who perceive racism for other things are racists
themselves.

LOL! Well, I guess everybody's a racist to a certain extent (or more
precisely, a bigot), I won't deny that, since it seems to be a part of
human nature, but when it gets to the point it has over here, it's
really a problem.

>
> >>Are you aware that you are the one who sucks?
> >
> > Coming from a moron like you, I'll take that as a compliment.
Thanks.
>
> You're welcome. Compared to you, though, I'm a genius.

Well, I don't know about "genius", but certainly you're a legend in
your own mind, I can see that.

>
> >>You went, without researching,
> >
> > Not true.
>
> Bovine excrement. All your perceived troubles so far are the results
of
> ignorance, ignorance that could have been fixed with proper research.

Well, if Filipino lawyers that live here can't even explain the gun
laws relating to "foriegners", and you, apparently a self-proclaimed
expert on the Philippines, don't even know that the Philippines is a
tropical country, I don't see how I could have been expected to find
out.

>
> >> to a foreign land to live there permanently, expecting itwill bend
over backwards
> >
> > Valuing my life the same as everyone else somehow requires
Filipinos to
> > "bend over backwords"?
>
> Ok. Tell me how many Filipino households have firearms.

I have no idea. How's that relevant?

>
> > Expecting the Philippine government to obey its own laws, for
example,
> > is being unreasonable?
>
> Have you tried suing the U.S. government? Do you want pointers?
>
> >>to offer you Little USA.
> >
> > That would be an insult. All I expected was reasonableness.
>
> Unreasonable people usually perceive unreasonableness in almost
everything.

And if I got robbed, you'd say: well crime victims usually victimize
others, etc., right? LOL!

>
> >>Then you come face toface with a different people, culture,
government, economy and set of
> >>laws.
> >
> > "Different" doesn't necessarily have to be racist or unfair or
> > illogical, does it? Maybe in your twisted mind it does.
>
> You expected to be understood by Filipinos. How far have you gone
> trying to understand them?

I've been dealing with Filipinos for years. I'm married to one. And
I've been here many times. I probably know more about the Philippines
than you do.

>
> >>Then you log on to soc.culture.filipino and say, "Boo hoo hoo!"
> >
> > Sorry if by telling the truth I've offended your gentile
sensibilities.
>
> So I'm Gentile, huh?

Seems so. In any case, sorry for the typo.

How would you feel if I yell "anti-Semitism!"?

I'd probably think you're even more of a nutcase than I do right now.

>
> >>Yes, sir or madam as the case may be, WE WILL SOLVE ALL YOUR MENTAL
> >>PROBLEMS FOR YOU here at SCF! Not. :D
> >
> > Thanks for the thought, but maybe you should solve your own serious
> > mental problems first.
> >
> >>Gago. Bobo. Plonkv.
> >>
> >>Unsympathetic Pig
> >
> > Dirty, sick, pig isn't it? And apparently it fits.
>
> It does.

Wow! Possibly the first honest statement from you so far.

Keep going, bobo, and you will find out how well I wear it.

You expect to be taken seriously with a pseudonym like that? Maybe I'll
wait for you to grow up a little bit.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 12:03:19 AM5/2/05
to
inkogn...@wongfaye.com wrote:
> > Apparently, a Filipino non-citizen can buy land, but a white person
> > non-citizen, even thought they may be a legal permanent resident,
> > married to a Filipina, can not. In my view, this obviously goes way
> > beyond "protecting" the Philippines from "predatory"
> > foreigners...unfortunately, I see it as simply another
manifestation
> of
> > Filipino racism.
> >
>
> It does not have anything to do with being white or brown. It has to
do
> with nativism- being native-born.

Well I won't necessarily dispute your first statement, but it's still
racism.

Itis not racism. It is
> discrimination against people who are not born in the country.

That's racism. If you don't believe me, look up the definition of
racism. According to Wikipedia, for example, racism is defined as: "any
distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or
effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or
exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms
in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of
public life".

In any case, you're statement about being native born is incorrect. You
can be born to a Filipino overseas, and never set foot in the
Philippines until you come here to buy your land.

Many
> colonial countries have that thing.

I'm curious, can you cite some other examples?

>
> You obviously have not seen pure Spanish Filipinos- many of these are
> blond - same as people in the North of Spain. Very very white. These
> have been in the country for 400 years. You can occasionally see them
> at the Manila airport. There is no provison that these cannot own
> land.

Ok, but that doesn't really prove anything.

If the Philippines decided to put 98% of all Moslems over here in jail
tomorrow for no good reason, they couldn't defend against charges of
racism by pointing to the 2% that are still free, could they?

>
> America has a similar provision that non-natives cannot become
> president

You can't see any reasonable distinction between being president and
having a place to live, for example? Being president is not a
"fundamental freedom" is it?

and as I have mentioned before, many will be refused security
> clearance for quite a few gov't jobs even if the arrived in the US at
> age 1.

I don't think you can compare what is obviously a national security
issue to an issue as basic as owning residential property.

>
> Their country, their rules.

Well, yes. And Filipinos can run their country any way they want to.
They're free to think and act as they see fit, and free to suffer the
consequences. They can be racists and hypocrites if they want to. They
can go to other countries to try and make money while they deny to
others here what they expect for themselves abroad. They can be full of
vanity and reject criticism. Then they can come begging to "foreigners"
as they do, to bail them out, as their country dissolves into chaos.

Chris Blunt

unread,
May 2, 2005, 2:46:55 AM5/2/05
to

Wikipedia were quoting a United Nations definition of racism as stated
in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
Racial Discrimination, but they 'forgot' to include the succeeding two
paragraphs which qualify it. Read on, and you'll see that
discriminating between citizens and non-citizens is not interpreted as
racism.

2. This Convention shall not apply to distinctions, exclusions,
restrictions or preferences made by a State Party to this Convention
between citizens and non-citizens.

3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any
way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality,
citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not
discriminate against any particular nationality.

A foreigner can own certain types of residential property in the
Philippines. As I told you already, I do. You can't own land.

Chris

Boracay Bill

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:01:28 AM5/2/05
to
>It does not have anything to do with being white or brown. It has to
do
>with nativism- being native-born. Itis not racism. It is
>discrimination against people who are not born in the country. Many
>colonial countries have that thing.

Just to pick a nit, it doesn't have anything to do with location of
birth, it has to do with at least one birth parent being an RP ctizen.

Cheeze

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:13:20 AM5/2/05
to

I'm actually one of those Filipinos who disagree with the law on land
ownership restriction. But its definitely not racism that the law is
there. The lawmakers were trying to address an issue, taking in mind
events that actually happened, and not just unsupported irrational
fears. That would have been racism.


> In fact legally speaking, any country allows a foreigner to
> > enter only on a mere whim.
>
> Depending on the definition of "foreigner", legally speaking,
countries
> that portray themselves as modern "democratic republics", especially
> countries like the U.S. and the Philippines, which incorporate an
> "equal protection clause" into their constitutions, cannot legally
(or
> morally, for that matter) discriminate against people within their
> jurisdictions based solely on a "mere whim".
>

Don't tell me that you can enter the US without going through
immigration. And that all jurisdictions allow entry of non-citizens on
a mere whim is a necessity of national security. I extremely doubt
that there is any country in the world that does not look at it this
way.

If you've heard the words "persona non-grata" uttered about diplomats,
you know what I mean. Though diplomats are by agreement covered by
immunity, they can be removed on a mere whim.


> >
> > The right to freedom of abode and travel, I'm happy to say are
> reserved
> > to people who have sworn allegiance to the country.
>
> To the extent I understand what you're trying to say, I suppose I
would
> have to disagree with your statement.
>

Do you disagree that a non-citizen does not have these rights, or that
a non-citizen should not be given these rights, or that I am happy?


> >
> > The rules are the same everywhere.
>
> Huh?
>
> >
> > Mr. Smith, are you sure your name aint Bobby Fischer?
>
> Quite sure. What does Bobby Fischer have to do with this subject
> matter?

Nuthing.

Cheeze

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:18:14 AM5/2/05
to

jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
> So, if a "foreigner" is allowed to buy a few hundred square meters of
> land for a residence, the next thing you know, the Philippines will
be
> overrun by millions of "foreigners" who will then organize themselves
> and take over the country by force? Would that necessarily be so bad
> under the circumstances? LOL!
>
> Hmmm...what if they come here and only rent, yet decide to take over
> the country anyway? Or is there historical evidence that renters
don't
> have such tendendcies to "conquer" their host country?
>

How can they do that if they didn't have guns. Unless of course they
got it illegally. :-)

> Does that sound reasonable to you? It doesn't sound reasonable to me.
> (Then again, we're talking about a country that, for example, makes a
> significant legal distinction, penalty-wise, between carrying an
> illegal 9mm pistol vs carrying an illegal 45 caliber pistol).
>
> Anyway, I think maybe it's too late. It seems aliens from outer space
> have already taken over the Philippines.
>
> Cheeze wrote:
>

YOU DO sound like Bobby Fischer!

Joseph Wind

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:27:48 AM5/2/05
to
Sorry to disappoint you, but I never used the word you inferred. Any
adjective with an "F", could of been substituted. You just happen to pick
the one that showed your true feelings. Symantics? Hmm. Even educated
people have mouths like sons of two-bit whores, like yourself. Sorry for
calling you "a son of two-bit whore", but I just wanted to make a point.
It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Hello, kettle?

Those who criticize should look in the mirror first. Maybe you're the one
who is uneducated, hiding behind your "holier than thou" attitude. This
idiot is just fishing and you bit, hard. I don't take him seriously,
actually I don't anyone in this NG seriously.

Most Filipinos are "mayabang" by nature, I have met few who are humble. So
it's understandable for your statement. All show no, go. You talk, the
talk, but do you walk, the walk?

I'm still trying to figure out this "idiots" intent, other than to cause
civil unrest in SCF.

Good Day!

<inko...@wongfaye.com> wrote in message
news:1114871886.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> And one more thing- "If you do not like it, get the fuck out" is a
> response of an uneducated person. Please spare this line. This line is
> being repeated by people everywhere. And it is a cruel and unfeeling
> way to talk to other people.
>
> People have their reasons to be where they are and sometimes they go
> through difficulties so please magpakatao ka, do not be an asshole. And
> it is not easy to just "get the fuck out" when you have a wife and kids
> in school.
>
> If you are a good person you can give advice on how to approach the
> problem productively and how to minimize the hard times the person is
> going through.
>
> If you are a heartless individual, then I guess that is the only way
> you can talk to other people.
>
> The US can also be a jungle and many immigrants have to struggle with
> all sorts of things. Advice and support is the best way one can help
> them.
>
> There is a bulletin board:
>
> www.livingincebu.com ( often down) and
> www.livinginthephilippines.com
>
> Many expats talk to each other there. The person should join these BBS
> and get advice. From a positive point of view.
>
> It is not easy to be away from home in a foreign land. One gets
> frustrated sometimes and pors his feelings out.
>
> As the natives of the land, please offer some constructive and postive
> advice.
>


Joseph Wind

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:27:49 AM5/2/05
to
Nope, just fishing. Dude needs to get a life or a pastime. Maybe he needs
to take up Badminton or something. Happiness is not having what you want,
but wanting what you have.

"dr ngo" <ngo...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xRYce.2355$1z2.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>
> I've tried following this thread from a safe distance, but I must have
> missed something. Can anyone else find where in the endless screeds of
> "jpsmith123" he included any "_constructive_ criticism" of the
Philippines?
> Just curious.
>
>
>


Joseph Wind

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:27:48 AM5/2/05
to
F me? F YOU! dipwad!

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> manage to scribble with a crayon
news:1114851591.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Joseph Wind wrote:
> > Yeah, warn the other foreigners to stay away from the Philippines.
>
> If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have come here.
> So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've found, as
> I know there are others contemplating moving here.
>
> >
> > No one is holding a gun to your head to stay.
>
> How do you know what my situation is, you presumptuous bastard?
>
> IF YOU DON'T LIE IT GET THE
> > F*** OUT!
>
> Fuck you, Joey. Crawl up your ass and disappear, moron.
>
> >
> > <jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1114839776.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > In part to warn others not to come here, and in part to see if
> there's
> > > anyone out there that will disagree.
> > >
> > > g...@msn.com wrote:
> > > > What is your point?
> > >
>


Joseph Wind

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:27:49 AM5/2/05
to
Huh?

<carlosb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1114863523....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> bakit nandiyan pa ang damuhong ire kong siya ay asar na asar sa
> pilipinas? kailangan niya bago pomunta riyan ay bumasa ng culture
> shock. bakit ba niya kailangan ng baril kong nakatira siya sa isang
> posh building ? sa pinto pa lang semplang na siya sa sikyo. reklamo
> siya na mahal daw ang bilihin. say ko diyan siya bumibili sa alabang
> at sa iba bang lugar na pinupugaran ng mga mayayaman ng pilipinas .
> mahal doon chong parang dollars .puti kasi kaya hinde naghahalubilo
> sa mga rabble man of the streets [ hinde alabang ha ]. yong kaibigan
> kong puti mahilig maglakad sa mga eskenita ng indang para mag
> exercise wala namang nangyari.
>
>
> btw may racket o business proposal daw eto . isang kaibigan niya na
> realtor naghahanap ng business partners para bumili ng mga apartments
> dito sa san jose bay area . hinde ba ito gimmick lang or scam ? may
> business proposal daw sa kanyang office sa monday para sa mga taong
> sumali. who knows.
>


jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:12:32 AM5/2/05
to

First, I'm sure Wikipedia didn't "forget". Rather, the Wikipedia
definition, technically speaking, actually defines "racial
discrimination" which, depending on the context (and it seems also on
the perspective of the parties involved) may or may not technically
amount to "racism". I suppose I should have so qualified my statement.

That the UN Convention per se (obviously a "political" instrument which
includes a lot more than just a definition of racial discrimination),
ostensibly doesn't apply to non-citizens, doesn't mean that the
included definition of racial discrimination itself is useless.

Nor does it mean, I think, that it is impossible for racism to exist
regarding non-citizens - let's face it, under the terms of the UN
Convention, pre Civil War slavery in the U.S. would not have been
officially recognized as a form as "racism". LOL!

Second, since the Philippine constitution has, among other things, an
"equal protection clause", which apparently applies to me, as a
permanent resident, I obviously take the position that the Philippine
government cannot have it both ways. It must either accept a racist
label, amend the constitution, or stop the arbitrary discrimination.

>
> A foreigner can own certain types of residential property in the
> Philippines.

A condominium. A piece of a structure, but not the land it's on. Yes, I
know.

> As I told you already, I do.

You said you bought a "property". It wasn't clear to me what you were
referring to. When someone says "property" I think "real property", and
I don't think of a condominium as "real property", in part because it
is technically not fully yours to do with as you please.

> You can't own land.

Which is what matters.

>
> Chris

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:30:33 AM5/2/05
to

What events, specifically, are you talking about?

>
>
> > In fact legally speaking, any country allows a foreigner to
> > > enter only on a mere whim.
> >
> > Depending on the definition of "foreigner", legally speaking,
> countries
> > that portray themselves as modern "democratic republics",
especially
> > countries like the U.S. and the Philippines, which incorporate an
> > "equal protection clause" into their constitutions, cannot legally
> (or
> > morally, for that matter) discriminate against people within their
> > jurisdictions based solely on a "mere whim".
> >
>
> Don't tell me that you can enter the US without going through
> immigration.

I'm not.

And that all jurisdictions allow entry of non-citizens on
> a mere whim is a necessity of national security. I extremely doubt
> that there is any country in the world that does not look at it this
> way.

Huh?

It seems we may have a problem with definitions here. I am a "legal
permanent resident" here in the Philippines. I have already paid fees
to the government, had a background check, a medical check, a check on
my ability to support myself, an interview, etc. I live here now. I
have already entered the country. So we shouldn't be talking about
"entry". The Philippine constitution supposedly applies to me.

>
> If you've heard the words "persona non-grata" uttered about
diplomats,
> you know what I mean. Though diplomats are by agreement covered by
> immunity, they can be removed on a mere whim.
>
>
> > >
> > > The right to freedom of abode and travel, I'm happy to say are
> > reserved
> > > to people who have sworn allegiance to the country.
> >
> > To the extent I understand what you're trying to say, I suppose I
> would
> > have to disagree with your statement.
> >
>
> Do you disagree that a non-citizen does not have these rights,

Yes, obviously, since I am a non-citizen, yet I have a legal right to
live here.

<snip>

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:43:32 AM5/2/05
to

Cheeze wrote:
> jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > So, if a "foreigner" is allowed to buy a few hundred square meters
of
> > land for a residence, the next thing you know, the Philippines will
> be
> > overrun by millions of "foreigners" who will then organize
themselves
> > and take over the country by force? Would that necessarily be so
bad
> > under the circumstances? LOL!
> >
> > Hmmm...what if they come here and only rent, yet decide to take
over
> > the country anyway? Or is there historical evidence that renters
> don't
> > have such tendendcies to "conquer" their host country?
> >
>
> How can they do that if they didn't have guns. Unless of course they
> got it illegally. :-)

All I can say is, once I'm in power, I'll straighten this place out in
a hurry. I may even have a high level cabinet position open for you for
giving me the idea...

>
> > Does that sound reasonable to you? It doesn't sound reasonable to
me.
> > (Then again, we're talking about a country that, for example, makes
a
> > significant legal distinction, penalty-wise, between carrying an
> > illegal 9mm pistol vs carrying an illegal 45 caliber pistol).
> >
> > Anyway, I think maybe it's too late. It seems aliens from outer
space
> > have already taken over the Philippines.
> >
> > Cheeze wrote:
> >
>
> YOU DO sound like Bobby Fischer!

I actually do share his views on many things, especially the nature of
the U.S. government.

Cheeze

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:43:08 AM5/2/05
to

jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> First, I'm sure Wikipedia didn't "forget". Rather, the Wikipedia
> definition, technically speaking, actually defines "racial
> discrimination" which, depending on the context (and it seems also on
> the perspective of the parties involved) may or may not technically
> amount to "racism". I suppose I should have so qualified my
statement.
>
> That the UN Convention per se (obviously a "political" instrument
which
> includes a lot more than just a definition of racial discrimination),
> ostensibly doesn't apply to non-citizens, doesn't mean that the
> included definition of racial discrimination itself is useless.
>
> Nor does it mean, I think, that it is impossible for racism to exist
> regarding non-citizens - let's face it, under the terms of the UN
> Convention, pre Civil War slavery in the U.S. would not have been
> officially recognized as a form as "racism". LOL!
>

What race are you by the way? Jewish? Arab?


> Second, since the Philippine constitution has, among other things, an
> "equal protection clause", which apparently applies to me, as a
> permanent resident, I obviously take the position that the Philippine
> government cannot have it both ways. It must either accept a racist
> label, amend the constitution, or stop the arbitrary discrimination.
>

Do you think any country in the world gives equal protection to
foreigners as they do their own citizens?


> >
> > A foreigner can own certain types of residential property in the
> > Philippines.
>
> A condominium. A piece of a structure, but not the land it's on. Yes,
I
> know.
>
>

> You said you bought a "property". It wasn't clear to me what you were
> referring to. When someone says "property" I think "real property",
and
> I don't think of a condominium as "real property", in part because it
> is technically not fully yours to do with as you please.
>

A condominium unit is real property. What you thought he imagined it?

> > You can't own land.
>
> Which is what matters.
>

I can tell you how to own land. But you have to pay me. :-)

Cheeze

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:51:30 AM5/2/05
to

Mexico US texas and california. We were talking about it earlier.

As long as you are not a citizen, the Government can expel you on a
mere whim. This is not an opinion on some metaphysical right. I am
telling you as a matter of fact, that any foreigner, even if he were of
Filipino decent (and hence race is not an issue) may be removed from
the Philippines for whatsoever reason the Philippines sees fit. Why?
Because you do not owe allegiance to the country, and the country owes
no allegiance to you.

If you don't plan to leave, I'm advising you to get your citizenship as
soon as you can.

> >
> > If you've heard the words "persona non-grata" uttered about
> diplomats,
> > you know what I mean. Though diplomats are by agreement covered by
> > immunity, they can be removed on a mere whim.
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > The right to freedom of abode and travel, I'm happy to say are
> > > reserved
> > > > to people who have sworn allegiance to the country.
> > >
> > > To the extent I understand what you're trying to say, I suppose I
> > would
> > > have to disagree with your statement.
> > >
> >
> > Do you disagree that a non-citizen does not have these rights,
>
> Yes, obviously, since I am a non-citizen, yet I have a legal right to
> live here.
>
> <snip>

Again this is not an opinion but a matter of fact. You do not have a
right to be here. It doesn't matter that you got through legally. It
does not matter that you paid fees. It doesn't even matter who you are
married to. And it definitely does not matter what you think your
rights are.

What you need is to realize the difference between your rights and what
right you believe should be given to you.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 6:45:53 AM5/2/05
to
Cheeze wrote:
> jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > First, I'm sure Wikipedia didn't "forget". Rather, the Wikipedia
> > definition, technically speaking, actually defines "racial
> > discrimination" which, depending on the context (and it seems also
on
> > the perspective of the parties involved) may or may not technically
> > amount to "racism". I suppose I should have so qualified my
> statement.
> >
> > That the UN Convention per se (obviously a "political" instrument
> which
> > includes a lot more than just a definition of racial
discrimination),
> > ostensibly doesn't apply to non-citizens, doesn't mean that the
> > included definition of racial discrimination itself is useless.
> >
> > Nor does it mean, I think, that it is impossible for racism to
exist
> > regarding non-citizens - let's face it, under the terms of the UN
> > Convention, pre Civil War slavery in the U.S. would not have been
> > officially recognized as a form as "racism". LOL!
> >
>
> What race are you by the way? Jewish? Arab?

I'm Spanish and English.

>
>
> > Second, since the Philippine constitution has, among other things,
an
> > "equal protection clause", which apparently applies to me, as a
> > permanent resident, I obviously take the position that the
Philippine
> > government cannot have it both ways. It must either accept a racist
> > label, amend the constitution, or stop the arbitrary
discrimination.
> >
>
> Do you think any country in the world gives equal protection to
> foreigners as they do their own citizens?

Probably not, at least not of their own volition; although some
governments, like the U.S. (the model of perfect wickedness, IMO) at
one time in its history did at least try to establish the illusion that
it was doing so.

>
>
> > >
> > > A foreigner can own certain types of residential property in the
> > > Philippines.
> >
> > A condominium. A piece of a structure, but not the land it's on.
Yes,
> I
> > know.
> >
> >
> > You said you bought a "property". It wasn't clear to me what you
were
> > referring to. When someone says "property" I think "real property",
> and
> > I don't think of a condominium as "real property", in part because
it
> > is technically not fully yours to do with as you please.
> >
>
> A condominium unit is real property.

I concede that it technically is. I just subconsciously don't think of
it that way.

> What you thought he imagined it?

I thought maybe he bought a property (land) with someone else (and
failed to mention it), or found a loophole I don't know about, etc.
I've talked to "foreigners" over here who've claimed to "own property",
but on questioning, it always turns out that they meant to say they
co-own it.

>
> > > You can't own land.
> >
> > Which is what matters.
> >
>
> I can tell you how to own land. But you have to pay me. :-)

Well, when I establish good government here, your cabinet position will
pay well!

Cheeze

unread,
May 2, 2005, 7:08:18 AM5/2/05
to

jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Well, when I establish good government here, your cabinet position
will
> pay well!

JP, when you establish your "good government" here, I'll be looong
gone.

LeeBat

unread,
May 2, 2005, 8:56:50 AM5/2/05
to
jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:

>The point is the racism.

Why are you people bothering with this troll?

LeeBat
curious yellow .....

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 8:20:02 AM5/2/05
to

Cheeze wrote:
> jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Cheeze wrote:
> > > jpsmith...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > Cheeze wrote:
> > > > > carlosbongo...@aol.com wrote:

<snip>

>
> As long as you are not a citizen, the Government can expel you on a
> mere whim. This is not an opinion on some metaphysical right. I am
> telling you as a matter of fact, that any foreigner, even if he were
of
> Filipino decent (and hence race is not an issue) may be removed from
> the Philippines for whatsoever reason the Philippines sees fit. Why?
> Because you do not owe allegiance to the country, and the country
owes
> no allegiance to you.

If this is really true, then I infer that either: (a) the government
just completely ignores the "Bill of Rights", specifically the "due
process" clause of Art III Sec 1, or; (b) that Philippine courts have
held that a legal permanent resident here has no "property interest" in
his visa.

I might have at one time found it somewhat hard to believe that there's
no constitutionally mandated right to a hearing, etc., but not anymore.

This government is apparently capable of anything.

>
> If you don't plan to leave, I'm advising you to get your citizenship
as
> soon as you can.

I'm thinking I may try to hang out here and wait to see if the madmen
that rule the U.S. start WW3, which I believe is a distinct
possibility, or if another 911 type "opportunity" should happen, either
of which possibly resulting in martial law and/or the catastrophic
collapse of the U.S. dollar (hence the U.S. economy). Three and a half
years is a long enough time for a madman to finish the job he
started...but I digress...

>
> > >
> > > If you've heard the words "persona non-grata" uttered about
> > diplomats,
> > > you know what I mean. Though diplomats are by agreement covered
by
> > > immunity, they can be removed on a mere whim.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The right to freedom of abode and travel, I'm happy to say
are
> > > > reserved
> > > > > to people who have sworn allegiance to the country.
> > > >
> > > > To the extent I understand what you're trying to say, I suppose
I
> > > would
> > > > have to disagree with your statement.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Do you disagree that a non-citizen does not have these rights,
> >
> > Yes, obviously, since I am a non-citizen, yet I have a legal right
to
> > live here.
> >
> > <snip>
>
> Again this is not an opinion but a matter of fact. You do not have a
> right to be here.

As I mentioned above, I believe that depends on how this government
views the constitution.

It doesn't matter that you got through legally. It
> does not matter that you paid fees. It doesn't even matter who you
are
> married to. And it definitely does not matter what you think your
> rights are.

Constitutions are ultimately no more than "words on paper". So I don't
generally put much faith in them.

>
> What you need is to realize the difference between your rights and
what
> right you believe should be given to you.

You've hit upon a major problem. In my view, "rights" generally aren't
something that governments can "give", they are inherent or come from
God; "rights" are something that governments must always be forced to
acknowledge and uphold.

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 8:23:06 AM5/2/05
to

Where are you going?

Chris Blunt

unread,
May 2, 2005, 8:47:26 AM5/2/05
to
On 2 May 2005 02:12:32 -0700, jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:

>> A foreigner can own certain types of residential property in the
>> Philippines.
>
>A condominium. A piece of a structure, but not the land it's on. Yes, I
>know.
>
>> As I told you already, I do.
>
>You said you bought a "property". It wasn't clear to me what you were
>referring to. When someone says "property" I think "real property", and
>I don't think of a condominium as "real property", in part because it
>is technically not fully yours to do with as you please.

I wish the folks at Makati City Hall thought the same way as you. I
get this bill for Real Property Tax from them every year.

Chris

jpsmi...@yahoo.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 9:12:04 AM5/2/05
to
I suppose I should say that many, actually most, of the people I've met
over here are very nice, the gentle people, and they seem to have a lot
of good qualities.

The more I think about it, I probably haven't been here long enough to
have a valid opinion as to whether there is a general lack of manners
here, etc. so I should retract any statement I made to that effect and
apologize for it.

I have been frustrated to an extreme with the obstacles this government
has placed in front of me, and I think I was mainly only venting in
this thread.

In any case, I think the government here, like almost everywhere else,
is generally comprised of immoral elitists that ruin things for
everyone. It seems it is the very nature of government everywhere to
most attract those who are least morally suited to wield power.

One good thing I see here in the Philippines is healthy criticism of
the government. Moreover, at least Filipinos have a coup every so often
and shake things up, whereas the U.S. is in the final stages of rot
where more people worship the government than criticize it.

<snip>

RP_Joe

unread,
May 2, 2005, 10:08:25 AM5/2/05
to
You are whats known as an ugly american.

tumbaga

unread,
May 2, 2005, 12:07:10 PM5/2/05
to
jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> Well, when I establish good government here, your cabinet position will
> pay well!
>

Now we know what the real problem is:
Your own racist view and disgust created this insane problem you have,
chill out. Take it easy. Do not change the country in your image, help
it change in its own "Filipino" way.

inko...@wongfaye.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 12:46:22 PM5/2/05
to

>
> Well I won't necessarily dispute your first statement, but it's still
> racism.
>
> Itis not racism. It is
> > discrimination against people who are not born in the country.
>
> That's racism.

It is not. Race is something genetic you cannot change. Citizenship you
can. Now if they say to you- "White people cannot own guns", than it is
racism. But they tell you "non-filipino citizens cannot own guns". That
is something you can change.

An example of racism is Japan- they do not let you rent apartments or
let you inside a bar even after you have become a citizen. You are
still not Japanese- look at your face!

If you don't believe me, look up the definition of
> racism. According to Wikipedia, for example, racism is defined as:
"any
> distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
> colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose
or
> effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or
> exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental
freedoms
> in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of
> public life".

So, where does it say " citizenship"? For example if you become a
Filipino citizen and still cannot own land because you are white than
it would be discrimination. But that will not be the case.


>
> In any case, you're statement about being native born is incorrect.
You
> can be born to a Filipino overseas, and never set foot in the
> Philippines until you come here to buy your land.


Native born also includes children of Filipino parents. Same in the US.
If you are born on an American base in Japan or VN from American parent
(s) you are a native born citizen.


>
> Many
> > colonial countries have that thing.
>
> I'm curious, can you cite some other examples?


Sure. Anywhere in the immigrant-settled Americas , Spanis, British
colonies, once you are born in any country you automatically have the
citizenship/nationality of that country. Mexico, Argentina, Brazil,
Canada, Jamaica, anywhere in the new hemisphere. Australia and NZ are
also such countries. It is called in Latin "Jus Solis"- "the right of
the soil". Philippines falls under those colonial laws.

In Old Europe traditionally children of foreigners are foreigners. Your
children only become locals if you mix with the locals over two three
generations.

Why do you think the Holocaust happened? Where do you think all these
Jews were born? Not in Germany and Poland? Why do you think the
Armenian genocide happened? All the Armenians were born in Turkey. So ,
who killed them? The Turks. Being born on the territory of the Ottoman
Empire did not make them Turks. One and a half million people died-
killed, tortured and all. It makes no difference ( there). A dog born
in the stables does not become a horse because of that.

That is called Jus Sanguinis- "the right of the blood". And if you do
not have that right, you are screwed.

Same in Asia. In Japan, grandchildren of Korean and Taiwanese
immigrants are Koreans and Chinese and not Japanese. In China you do
not become Chinese just because your parents gave birth to you there.
Is your face Chinese? Is your name Lee Pang Pong?


In Germany ( Europe again) children and grandchildren of Turks only now
got German citizenship. The law was changed in the year 2000. But
socially and in daily lives they are still treated as Turks.

In Russia, children and great grandchildren of Germans may have
citizenship but they will never have the Russian *nationality* which is
a different concept- it is based on ethno-racial descent from the
original Slavic tribes. That cannot be acquired by anyone.


> >
> > You obviously have not seen pure Spanish Filipinos- many of these
are
> > blond - same as people in the North of Spain. Very very white.
These
> > have been in the country for 400 years. You can occasionally see
them
> > at the Manila airport. There is no provison that these cannot own
> > land.
>
> Ok, but that doesn't really prove anything.

It proves that you are not denied the purchase of land/gun because of
"race". They own land and guns. One of the richest families in the
Philippines is Ayala family- they are almost pure Spaniards. As white
as can be. Many Spaniards born in the country joined the Philippine
rebellion against the Spanish rule, too.These were as white as you can
get.


>
> If the Philippines decided to put 98% of all Moslems over here in
jail
> tomorrow for no good reason, they couldn't defend against charges of
> racism by pointing to the 2% that are still free, could they?

First, this is not racial but religious discrimination. Second,this is
hypothetical and irrelevant. False analogy, too. The white Spaniards in
the Philippines own the land not in contrast to some majority of other
white *citizens* who cannot not. All white Spanish decendants who have
been born in the country can own land and guns. All Filipino citizens
can own land.


>
> >
> > America has a similar provision that non-natives cannot become
> > president
>
> You can't see any reasonable distinction between being president and
> having a place to live, for example? Being president is not a
> "fundamental freedom" is it?

Granted it is not as basic but it is still discrimination against
non-natives. Granted, I am not giving you an equal analogy, I am
showing that the US has such a restriction. In the US all citizens
should be able to at least *aspire* to that. Have that dream, at
least.That dream shoudl be teh basic right of every American. But it is
not.

Think about how US citizen children ( born abroad and brought into the
country while young) who are taking a class in Civics cannot join
discussions as to " What would I do if I were President?" because they
are robbed of that right only because their non-American parents- not
them, gave birth to them in another country. Something that they
cannot even remember.


>
> and as I have mentioned before, many will be refused security
> > clearance for quite a few gov't jobs even if the arrived in the US
at
> > age 1.
>
> I don't think you can compare what is obviously a national security
> issue to an issue as basic as owning residential property.


You will not be sleeping on the street. You can own a condo. A big one.
A huge one. You can lease land for many many years and build a house on
it. You *will* have a place to live. You can rent for a few years until
you become a Filipino citizen. You can rent a huuuuge house for some
13,000 pesos a month and live like a bloody king.

To them it may be a security risk that they have hundreds of thousand
foreign citizen landowners in the country with guns. If they make a new
law, it will apply to other people. Next thing you know, you have a
Mohammad Bin Ali Bin Hattab Abdulrahman from Saudi Arabia who bought
half the Island of Mindanao and now it belongs to him, not to the
Filipinos. They do not like it. I wouldn't, either.

If I were a Filipino I would want that Mohammad to first:

Learn my language and history of my country and learn what it is like
to live like a Filipino.
Become a citizen of my country with full rights after he has lived in
RP for a few years and became acclimated, learned the culture and all.
Then, he could own land in my country.

Personally I also do not like that non-citizens own land in the US. But
American real estate agents just love all this money.

As far as being a non-native citizen in the US, you are denied many
many good jobs ( which you want to do and which will mean you cannot
get a good income they provide- which will enable you to buy a house,
etc- and instead you have to restrict yourself to other fields) for
which you are qualified for the simple reason of being born abroad even
if you came to teh US while very very small and are as patriotic as you
can get.

It is something that is not your fault and is not part of the
meritorious system that the US claims to espouse. You have been an
honest citizen, you love America and do not know any other country and
never showed any hostility towards it. If you had record engaging in
anti-American activities , then it is a different story. But say, you
were born in Canada and your parents immigrated to the US and you
cannot apply for this and that job because you are "not a real
American". Not born here. What security risk are you? What did you do?

How can you feel the US is your home after that?

If your parents came from Yugoslavia and brought you here at age 2, you
cannot apply for many many jobs. Why are you a security risk? You do
not even rememeber the old country. You left because your parents hated
Communism. You grew up in New York or LA. Is it fair?


>
> >
> > Their country, their rules.
>
> Well, yes. And Filipinos can run their country any way they want to.
> They're free to think and act as they see fit, and free to suffer the
> consequences. They can be racists

Which they mostly are not.

and hypocrites


Where is the hypocricy?


if they want to. They
> can go to other countries to try and make money while they deny to
> others here what they expect for themselves abroad. They can be full
of
> vanity and reject criticism. Then they can come begging to
"foreigners"
> as they do, to bail them out, as their country dissolves into chaos.

Well, this is an emotional outpouring. Every country you'd go to,
you'll find that they have their rules. The US has its rules for people
to get into the country for example.

You cannot hope to change them by yourself. Although you may. Thailand
for example abolished many restrictions on wives of foreigners not
being able to own property precisely because of that. There it used to
be that not only non-citizens could not won land but their Thai wives
could not. It was pretty bad there. Many foreigners were complaining.
And the law was changed. If enough foreigners in the Philippines
complain, then it may work. There are just not enough of them.

However, when you see Japanese, Koreans and Arabs buying huge tracts of
land next to you and real estate prices sky-rocketing, you may want the
old system back. When people from Mitsui Inc or Taiwanese millionaires
start buying up property and it houses around you start costing
millions of dollars, then Filipinos will not be able to afford anything
for themselves. Land speculation will start.

So, the system is probably in place because if non-citizens were
allowed to own land, the Japanese and Gulf Arabs and rich Americans
would buy up the whole country.

Houses and lots ( good ones) in, say, Leyte cost $6000. If foreigners
were allowed to own land, a few Japanese with permanent residences
would buy up the whole island. Before you know, the country would be
sold to just a few foreigners.And masses of people would have nothing
left. They would be renting from those foreigners.

In the US you can buy houses but they are expensive compared to
P300,000 houses in Mindanao- I saw such prices in s good subdivision in
Cagayan De Oro.

inko...@wongfaye.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 12:57:05 PM5/2/05
to
One more thing- you can buy the house in your wife's name. As long as
you are not getting an annulment there is no risk for you at all. You
will still be the king in the castle.

DirtySickPig

unread,
May 2, 2005, 2:15:21 PM5/2/05
to
Joseph Wind wrote:
> F me? F YOU! dipwad!

Please respect the holy alphabet, fkrs. Bwahahahahahahahaha! I'm
beginning to like this thread.

ObscenePig

Joseph Wind

unread,
May 2, 2005, 4:17:15 PM5/2/05
to
Sounds more like a Disenfranchised Democrat from a Red State.

"RP_Joe" <RP_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115042905.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

joek...@gmail.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:14:54 PM5/2/05
to
Apparently I do. When the U.S. government slaughters 100,000 innocent
people that never attacked or threatened it in any way, I call it
murder. If that's not how you see it, then apparently I do know more
than you.

Since that never happened it's obvious the rest of your post(s) are
just as delusional...
I may not like EVERYTHING about the Philippines but, I accept the fact
that it's their country and YOU need to adjust to their way.

Nung nanu-nanu mu

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:16:47 PM5/2/05
to
Does your wife's family include the Godfather? Is he the one keeping
you in Mindanao? Why is an amateur chemist like you experimenting with
methanol? What kind of a methlab are you running?

Are you under the protection of the local warlord there, the NPA or the
MILF? They sure don't like competition and they can get pretty racist
against foreign competition. A gun won't be enough against them, you'll
need your own private army.

joek...@gmail.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:31:30 PM5/2/05
to
Actually it goes back to the Spanish-American war- or it's aftermath
when rich Yankees came in and bought huge plantations etc And the
undue influence of foreign corporations etc...

joek...@gmail.com

unread,
May 2, 2005, 5:33:21 PM5/2/05
to
no he's what's known as an inbred retard 8 P

DirtySickPig

unread,
May 2, 2005, 7:45:09 PM5/2/05
to

After reading through the whole thread and subthreads, he gained just a
mite of respect from me because when he can no longer stand the U.S., he
took off for good, which is more than can be said for lots of big
mouthed movie stars and minor politicians of the
Democratic/socialist/leftist/communist/etc. persuassion.

And after letting go of some steam and lava, I feel from his words that
he is apologetic and may even start being a valuable regular here. Then
he can start receiving tips and tricks from the tipsters and tricksters
of SCF like Renowl.

Baboy Chin

Sylvia Knörr

unread,
May 2, 2005, 9:41:47 PM5/2/05
to

<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1114911785....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Sylvia Knörr wrote:
> <jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:1114851591.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


>> > If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have
>> > come here.
>> > So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've
>> > found, as
>> > I know there are others contemplating moving here.

>> Sorry to say that but my impression is that it didn´t come out of
>> the blue that you don´t feel comfortable in the Philippines.

>You're right, it didn't. It started when the Philippine government told
>me my life's not worth anything over here. That was the last straw, so
>to speak. My patience has essentially run out.

You are a foreigner, why should the Philippine government care too much
about you? Governments HAVE TO be biased towards their own native people.

>> The way you resort to
>> name calling and your lack of patience must hurt the feelings of most
>> of your Filipino neighbors and everyone you have to deal with.

>I don't just run around for no reason calling people names. In general,
>I try to live my life according to the Christian doctrine of reciprocity.

An eye for an eye? That´s not Christian.

>> What do you expect when you call your host country a "pathetic excuse
>> for a country"

>I call it as I see it.

Don´t let the things you don´t like paint everything black. And if you
really want to change something you should apply heaps of patience instead
of insulting criticism lest you turn everyone into an enemy.

Just like when a blood thirsty, fascist America
>goes all over the world under the aegis of a fiction called "[T]he War
>on Terror", murdering innocent people by the thousands, to advance its
>immoral imperial agenda, I call that as I see it, too. And telling the
>ugly truth has gotten me into trouble.

Although I share some of your criticism I don´t think that blind anger leads
anywhere. It´s not good to go with your head through the wall, better use
the door. :-)

>> and let everyone know that in your eyes the residents are all sorry
>> losers?

> I didn't actually say that "the residents are all sorry losers".

But it SOUNDS like that.

> I haven't been here long enough to have a valid opinion as to the extent
> to which "the people are the government".

Then better cool down and don´t run around like a missionary. Don´t get
fanatic.

>> Did you ever take into account that the local´s attitude might be a
>> reflection of *your* hostile attitude?

>I don't necessarily have a problem with the locals' attitudes (to the
>extent they've expressed them, that is). It's the official racism that
>I cannot tolerate.

You feel discriminated and throw a tantrum, but it won´t help. You are on
foreign soil and you have to live with THEIR rules. You don´t have any "God
given rights", that´s just an illusion. I know that most Americans feel that
way because they are used to be the top dogs. You have the rights which are
given to you by your host government, but you can only lease them, not
POSSESS them. You will sue the Philippine government because they treat you
wrong? May Don Quixote be with you! :-))

>> You don´t LOVE the Philippines, you are unable to respect their very
>> own ways, hence they will never love you back.

>I came over here with hope and an open mind. Then they told me that my
>life's not worth that of a Filipino. That's a rather poor foundation to
>build upon, don't you think?

No, it´s fair, because it is THEIR country you are living in now. I think
the experience to be second class is something new to you and along with
other things it hurt your ego. Take it as a chance to learn something about
yourself instead of taking it as a personal insult.

>> If I were you I would leave a place where I don´t feel welcome.

>I'm working on it, but at this point it's a terrific practical hardship
>to move again.


If you can´t go back to the USA you better adjust to your surrounding. Give
up your fixation on firearms. A little humility will serve you better than a
hundred machine guns.
If the mountain doesn´t come to the prophet, the prophet has to go to the
mountain.

Alternative Strategy Piggy

Cheeze

unread,
May 3, 2005, 12:02:16 AM5/3/05
to
I thought he said he was english?

And if there are two types of people I can't tolerate in this world are
people who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures, and the English.

:-D

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
May 3, 2005, 12:15:17 AM5/3/05
to
heres my tip the warriors would do good next year. ditto the raiders.

carlosb...@aol.com

unread,
May 3, 2005, 12:16:43 AM5/3/05
to
whatever joeker get back to sleep under your rock

Chris Blunt

unread,
May 3, 2005, 1:20:53 AM5/3/05
to
On Tue, 3 May 2005 03:41:47 +0200, "Sylvia Knörr"
<sylvia.kno...@t-online.de> wrote:

>
><jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:1114911785....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>Sylvia Knörr wrote:
>> <jpsmi...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:1114851591.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>> > If I had known two years ago what I know now, I may not have
>>> > come here.
>>> > So I think it's reasonable to let other people know what I've
>>> > found, as
>>> > I know there are others contemplating moving here.
>
>>> Sorry to say that but my impression is that it didn´t come out of
>>> the blue that you don´t feel comfortable in the Philippines.
>
>>You're right, it didn't. It started when the Philippine government told
>>me my life's not worth anything over here. That was the last straw, so
>>to speak. My patience has essentially run out.
>
>You are a foreigner, why should the Philippine government care too much
>about you? Governments HAVE TO be biased towards their own native people.

Unfortunately, the government of the Philippines cares nothing about
the welfare of vast majority of its own people either. All they're
interested in is making sure their rich business associates have
things working they way it best suits them. They're quite happy for
the poor to stay poor because that provides a pool of cheap labour for
the ruling classes to make use of.

Chris

Cheeze

unread,
May 3, 2005, 1:34:47 AM5/3/05
to

To enforce a criminal penalty, you will have a hearing. To enforce the
right of a nation to protect its borders from all outsiders, it does
not.

Let me test your understanding of the equal protection clause by asking
this question:

Do you believe children under five should be allowed to drive a car?


> This government is apparently capable of anything.
>
> >
> > If you don't plan to leave, I'm advising you to get your
citizenship
> as
> > soon as you can.
>
> I'm thinking I may try to hang out here and wait to see if the madmen
> that rule the U.S. start WW3, which I believe is a distinct
> possibility, or if another 911 type "opportunity" should happen,
either
> of which possibly resulting in martial law and/or the catastrophic
> collapse of the U.S. dollar (hence the U.S. economy). Three and a
half
> years is a long enough time for a madman to finish the job he
> started...but I digress...
>

Which begs the question why you are in the region labeled by the US as
the next Afghanistan.

What is it really?

> It doesn't matter that you got through legally. It
> > does not matter that you paid fees. It doesn't even matter who you
> are
> > married to. And it definitely does not matter what you think your
> > rights are.
>
> Constitutions are ultimately no more than "words on paper". So I
don't
> generally put much faith in them.

Do you or do you not give weight to the Constitution?

>
> >
> > What you need is to realize the difference between your rights and
> what
> > right you believe should be given to you.
>
> You've hit upon a major problem. In my view, "rights" generally
aren't
> something that governments can "give", they are inherent or come from
> God; "rights" are something that governments must always be forced to
> acknowledge and uphold.

God told you this huh? So in the end, the constitution does not matter
and all your arguments about what the Constitution says is actually
baseless. In the end we have to trust that God told you something that
he did not tell others.

Heres something for you, which you may or may not like. The notion of
God telling each one of us what our rights are have caused drastic
consequences in the world. No doubt the islamic militants are just as
certain of their Faith and in the inherent goodness of their actions
just as those who are backing Bush's efforts. The fact that they take
it on faith leaves no room for compromise, or dialogue. You were
better off reasoning with me. And if you are a reasonable man, the
debate would bear some fruit and understanding for both of us. But if
you're invoking God on me, then this is a useless exercise.

That said, I was telling you that you have misunderstood the equal
protection clause, and that its meaning is completely independent of
what you think it means.

Xianghua71

unread,
May 3, 2005, 2:28:07 AM5/3/05
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<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114860308.6...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Chris Blunt wrote:
> Frankly, I could probably go buy a gun tomorrow, illegally of course,
> but that's not the issue. The issue, all things considered, is the
> racist ideology whereby only Filipinos, and not white people, are
> allowed to have guns here.
> You can call it whatever you want to, but basically it's a de facto
> statement by the Philippine government that the life of a white person
> simply is not worth as much as the life of a Filipino.

It is a de facto statement by the US government that the life of a non-white
person is simply not worth as much as otherwise. this is just my opinion and
my point. lemme see if there is anyone out ther who will disagree.

X


Xianghua71

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May 3, 2005, 2:32:48 AM5/3/05
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<jpsmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114911785....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> I don't just run around for no reason calling people names. In general,
> I try to live my life according to the Christian doctrine of
> reciprocity.

Ack! Which bible did you get that? Does this mean i have been living my life
the wrong way all these time? The Golden Rule only applies to good things.
Help me understand or i may need to convert.

X


Just JT

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May 3, 2005, 4:08:40 AM5/3/05
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Sabi ni "dr ngo" <ngo...@nc.rr.com>:
>
> I've tried following this thread from a safe distance, but I must have
> missed something. Can anyone else find where in the endless screeds of
> "jpsmith123" he included any "_constructive_ criticism" of the
> Philippines? Just curious.
----------------
One word: TROLL.

--
DalubDon'tFeedTheTroll


DirtySickPig

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May 2, 2005, 2:18:26 PM5/2/05
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jpsmi...@yahoo.com wrote:

> I'm Spanish and English.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BPUA/ is the place for you to post your
experiences, both good and bad. Kindly tell them The Pig sent you and
misses them a lot. Thank you.

DSP

Boracay Bill

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May 3, 2005, 2:46:00 PM5/3/05
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Hmmmm.....

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

Seems that the doctrine is shared by many religions other than
christianity.

joek...@gmail.com

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May 3, 2005, 5:25:45 PM5/3/05
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you mean on top of your Mom.....

DirtySickPig

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May 3, 2005, 7:43:47 PM5/3/05
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Xianghua71 wrote:

> It is a de facto statement by the US government that the life of a non-white
> person is simply not worth as much as otherwise. this is just my opinion and
> my point. lemme see if there is anyone out ther who will disagree.

Fetus, newborn or toddler?

WireCoatHangerPig

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