Philippines 200 and Mr Pining Garcia
damo...@desire.wright.edu
as contribution, heto yong comments ko sa "debate" on "idealism", Inang
Bayan, "uuwi ba o hindi", at "hoy, magserbisyo naman kayo sa Pinas for
Philippines 2000"
a. Tama na nga kayo. Sa mga nandito, aminin nating lahat, mga oportunista tayo.
This applies lalong lalo na sa mga taga-UP (to be more precise yong mga taga-
PGH). Nakamura na nga tayo ng edukasyon (subsidized yong UP ng taxes ng mga
Pinoy, or to be more precise, yong mga middle at lower class Pinoys dahil
as economists would point out, regressive at highly anti-poor yong tax system
natin) dahil nasa UP tayo (top school of the nation, kuno; I doubt it today).
Mahusay yong diploma at - aminin na natin - ginamit natin heto para makapasok
sa American market. Yong ibinayad ng mga med students sa PGH wala sa katiting
ng tunay na cost ng edukasyon. Nandito karamihan sa kanila dahil nandito ang
pera. Yong nasyonalismo at "pag-ibig sa inang bayan," panakip-butas na lang
yan sa simpleng oportunismo.
The sooner we admit this, I think the less the "debate" over who can contribute
or who contributes better to Philippines 2000 will be steered along more
fruitful lines
b. But this does not only apply to Pinoys in Amerika. J. Ayson can indeed be
critical of people here, but he also should be aware as to where he is. Yong
Manila, hindi Pilipinas; yong Asian Development Bank, hindi Divisoria. Hindi
lahat makapasok at makapag-enjoy sa luxuries na ini-enjoy ni Mr. Ayson (which
I suspect includes access to e-mail networks, no? Dahil hindi naman siguro
makabayad si Mr. Ayson, or for that matter si R. Feria mula sa kanilang bulsa
sa cost of phone/satellite lines, etc. Charge sa ADB siguro? Which in turn
charge sa mga hampas-lupang Asyano na pinilit ng kanilang mga gobyerno na
mag-bayad ng buwis, parte nito papunta sa pag-subsidize ng high lifestyle ng
mga taga-ADB na kagaya ni Mr. Ayson. Yong perch ni Mr. Ayson, hindi talagang
perch yon, dahil parang 1st world island yang ADB HQ sa slum that is Manila;
at saka yong Manila, malaking parasite na naka-kontrol sa ibang parte ng
Pilipinas. Mr. Ayson can wax high-and-mighty that he is "serving" the
Inang Bayan; pero I doubt if he really knows his "Inang Bayan". Can he survive
Mindanao? I doubt it.
So, tama na yang daldal ng daldal about sino ang tama. Tama na rin itong
guilt-trip at pakosensyahan. Lahat tayo - let me reiterate - may mga skeletons
sa closet. Lahat tayo mga oportunista.
P. Abinales
Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
P.S.
Yong nagpapadala ng sex jokes at yong nag-sign ng pangalan niya, "Pining
Garcia." I did not know that a sex pervert and a male chauvinist pig graces
this "lane." If you recall the 70s, "Pining Garcia" is derivative from
"Pininger ko siya," i.e., I attached my finger into her vagina. A true
sexist and possibly a woman beater here, folks. Siguro maliit ang titi.
Deer Hunter
>Kasasali ko lang dito sa newsgroup (after weeks of trying to get into it) at
I don't like flaming people for the most part, but this one really got me:
WHO IN THE DARN BLAZES DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Kasasali mo lang pala
e bakit ang taas mo nang magsalita? Who died and made you god of scf?
You obviously haven't done your homework and along the lines of
netiquette, which you so flippantly ignored, waxed your oh-so-almighty
judgments on scf "old-timers" you don't even know. "MR" Pining Garcia?
She's female, for goodness' sake! And she can use whatever alias she
wants - that's not for you to judge. Besides, speak for yourself.
You can't come in here and make sweeping conclusions about people here.
I'm from UP, but I didn't graduate from there - I'm actually a
Wright State University graduate and I'm ashamed to note that that's
where you're even posting your big-mouthed-and-no-brainer-of-a-post!
Joyce T.
--------
joy...@netcom.com
Jim Ayson
Folks, I'm not usually the flaming kind, and in fact I've flunked out of
the Rhett Pascual correspondence school of creative flaming (Tata
Retong, I promise to enroll again). I haven't climbed aboard the "let's
dump on the newbies" trend either. I actually like newbies, it's fun to
show them around. I believe it's always a good thing to have new people
on the Net, and in SCF in particular. But I'll have to cross the line
once in a while. There's this new asshole in our virtual community
sneaking in on his wife's university account who has decided to jump in
without following the basic rules of Netiquette and has made it a specific
point to piss me off. And some others as well. Masama talaga ang dating
niya. Worse than the B.O. of Gorgeous' beloved Frenchies. So FLAME ON.
No more mister nice guy. Abinales, this one's for you.
damo...@desire.wright.edu babbled mindlessly....
>But this does not only apply to Pinoys in Amerika. J. Ayson can indeed be
>critical of people here, but he also should be aware as to where he is. Yong
>Manila, hindi Pilipinas; yong Asian Development Bank, hindi Divisoria. Hindi
You know folks, this is one of the reasons I don't like posting with
that asiandevbank.org domain, especially on SCF, and why I would rather
use my other accounts. Alam ko kasi na maraming mga gago diyan, katulad
nitong Abinales, who will take one look at the domain and forumulate
all sorts of assumptions about it and the owner of the account based on
their impressions of the Bank during their aktibista heydays where they
ranted against the "WorldBank-IMF-ADB conspiracy" against the R.P., or
when they would see some blonde expat in a BMW with an ADB plate zoom
past and associate the bank with first world salaries and lifestyles.
This is the same kind of pea-brained idiot on an os.advocacy group who
would flame people with microsoft.com domains because they don't
particularly like Bill Gates' billions or Microsoft operating systems.
Or assumes everyone with an ibm.com domain wears a blue pin-striped suit.
Or assumes everyone with an aol.com has no idea what's going on. Or
thinks someone from worldbank.org is automatically a third world
oppressor. One of these days, I swear, I'll register the "Inamo.com"
domain with the InterNIC for appropriate replies to turds like Abinales.
Standard disclaimers apply. Whatever opinions, I post on this newsgroup
are mine and mine alone. My employer has nothing to do with them. And
where I work or what I do has nothing to do with them either. I make it
a point to refrain from commenting on organizational policies here. I
had assumed that much was clear to everyone so I don't have a .sig
saying that, there are enough sigs around mentioning that. Well, clear
enough except to ignorant lunkheads the likes of Abinales.
>lahat makapasok at makapag-enjoy sa luxuries na ini-enjoy ni Mr. Ayson (which
>I suspect includes access to e-mail networks, no? Dahil hindi naman siguro
>makabayad si Mr. Ayson, or for that matter si R. Feria mula sa kanilang bulsa
>sa cost of phone/satellite lines, etc. Charge sa ADB siguro? Which in turn
>charge sa mga hampas-lupang Asyano na pinilit ng kanilang mga gobyerno na
O-ver! First of all, what does access to an e-mail account have to do
with anything? E-mail here is available to every employee. Everyone from
a data entry operator to a file clerk to a secretary right up to the
president has access to an e-mail account. This is used for internal
communications, and the network just happens to have a gateway to the
Internet as well. So a data entry clerk earning P5,000 a month can flame
Abinales and get a reply back from the turd about his high-flying
lifestyle.
Secondly, Abinales must have been hiding his miniscule brain under a
rock for the past year because he still thinks that Net access from the
R.P. involves expensive "phone/satellite lines" and that somehow I'm
frivolously frittering away the tax money of some grocer in Nepal by
posting some tsismis about Kris Aquino during my lunch break. The
connection from this network to the Internet is done via PHnet,
originally intended to be an academic/research network. The initial
funding was provided by the Department of Science and Technology using
some of my tax pesos. To be self-sustaining, the network has signed up
various corporations and organizations who pay for a connection. The
connection from a network of our size to the Net is a fixed fee,
somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,000/a month. Fixed, meaning if I
send two e-mails a month, or 200, the connection cost is the same. Other
organizations can get connected for as low as P3,000/month. The fees
collected by PHnet from corporate customers are used for the maintenance
amd expansion of the Philippine link to the Net, so that universities in
Manila, Baguio and Cebu (expanding in the south) can connect to the
Internet without bleeding them dry. So no, I don't pay for my Net
access. Does someone who works at Sun.com, microsoft.com, spss.com,
hp.com, AMD or SGI pay for his or her access as well? What about
universities? Or your wife's account for that matter? It comes with the
job, and it's part of my job to use this facility to communicate with
technology vendors or ferret out patches and utilities for our systems
here. I do quite a bit of work on the Net as well.
If I'm at home and I want to access SCF, I dialup a BBS and read the
posts from there. I also have an Internet e-mail account there. The BBS
is free. I don't know why... trip lang siguro ng system operator! I also
have access to a global BBS network called FidoNet from home. This is a
completely amateur all-volunteer run network, with gateways to the
Internet. I can flame you from there too. No, it's not completely free.
For the International access we each pay the princely sum of P600 a
YEAR, which we use as a pool for telecoms charges. Our goal is to spread
the network to other parts of the Philippines, get cities wired. Build
active local virtual communities. I hear from the Cebu operators that
Bacolod and Davao might be coming aboard soon. If we can't all have
Information highways, maybe we can have some information eskinitas. So
in the future I can flame Abinales from a PC in Davao as well.
I'm also involved in a project to put up a Philippine Internet
Cooperative, to set up a site and offer full Net access via PHnet to
members at cost, for individuals without access to universities or
organizations on the Net. Less expensive than a commercial service. The
idea is once we can get a model Internet coop running, other coops
around the country can get up and running as well. We don't have to do
this. Trip lang namin for whatever obscure reason.
It's really too bad you lumped in Rommel Feria in your diatribe. Rommel
is an earnest young man taking grad studies in U.P. and teaches
computers to High School kids at the Ateneo. He also administers the
network at the U.P. college of engineering. This explains his numerous
e-mail accounts. No, he doesn't pay for his Net access either. He also
has an account in SCAN and posts to SCF from there. For free. He's also
part of another all-volunteer BBS network that is supposed to be giving
Internet e-mail access soon either for free or at a very low cost. But
of course, if you'd take the time to read his .sig, you'd know all this
already and stop wasting my time.
There's also a volunteer network called Philippine Freenet that has a
special deal with De La Salle's network adminstrators to offer e-mail
and Usenet access for free. Just get a modem and log in. You see their
postings here. Cholo Gino, Aeneas Acu, eric pareja, etc. are part of
this.
>mag-bayad ng buwis, parte nito papunta sa pag-subsidize ng high lifestyle ng
>mga taga-ADB na kagaya ni Mr. Ayson. Yong perch ni Mr. Ayson, hindi talagang
Now that we've demolished Abinales' ridiculous notion that Internet
access is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, I'd really like
to know what the hell is this high lifestyle Abinales talks about and
how can I get in? I'd like to play polo in Forbes and have a yacht
docked at the Manila Yacht club too.
Or drive a BMW. Or earn a dollar salary. That way, I don't have to panic
during a devaluation or pay taxes. Unfortunately, as a tech support type
grunt in the computer services group, our salaries are pegged to our
counterparts in local comparator organizations like BPI, PCI Bank,
Citibank etc. So yes, we earn in pesos, and based on what I know from my
fellow computer professionals here, we earn at industry-standard rates
for the MIS field. And as you know, one of the reason the Philippines is
so attractive for foreign investors today are the low salaries compared
to say, Singapore or Taiwan, or definitely the US and Canada. So tell me
more about that lifestyle again, mukhang masarap yan, ah! I don't
generally talk about my job on this newsgroup. It can be fun in a nerdy,
tech-oriented sort of way, but I don't see booze and babes and champagne
around my workstation.
>perch yon, dahil parang 1st world island yang ADB HQ sa slum that is Manila;
>at saka yong Manila, malaking parasite na naka-kontrol sa ibang parte ng
>Pilipinas.
Aba, mukhang matagal ka nang wala dito. The ADB HQ is in an island of
shoppers! The bank moved to the Ortigas Center about two years ago down
the road from Benguet Consolidated and San Miguel Corporation's
corporate headquarters. Since then, this area has mushroomed with high
rise office buildings and condominiums, including the home of the new
Philippine Stock Exchange, not to mention the presence of three
gargantuan havens of decadence and hedonism: shopping malls!!! Getting
in and out of this area during a midnight sale is maddening! If Ortigas
Center is an island in a slum (more accurately, an island separated from
the Greenhills area by flyovers), it's more like a continent. And of
course it has thousands of people from all walks of life who work
elsewhere and commute to the area to work everyday. We don't live here.
What I really want to do is give each of them from security guards,
salesgirls, to corporate execs, an e-mail account so that Abinales can
write to them about their high-flying lifestyles and they can mail-bomb
him right back. So he can learn to distinguish the individual's ideas
from the employer. No, Ortigas Center is not the Philippines, but it
doesn't pretend to be, either. It's a place to work, as far as I'm
concerned.
>Mr. Ayson can wax high-and-mighty that he is "serving" the
>Inang Bayan; pero I doubt if he really knows his "Inang Bayan".
>Can he survive Mindanao? I doubt it.
You know that sounds a lot like basic U.P. aktibista rhetoric from the
70's, that "serving the Inang Bayan" line. I've never used that phrase.
No, I went to that burgis Jesuit-run school down Katipunan. Instead we
learned other phrases like "Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam", "Man for Others",
"Para sa Diyos at Bayan", "Tulong Dunong"... and other top 40 tunes.
Abinales, you want to flame that institution? Be my guest. See if you
survive the reaction.
As for Mindanao, I wouldn't know, I've never been there, so how would
you know? Well if I take a trip there, I'll prepare first. I'm sure
I'll manage.
>P. Abinales
>Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
You pathetic Parasite! Get your own account with a commercial provider!
Think of all those student fees that subsidize your high-flying
lifestyle manifested in your wife's university Internet account! Pay
your way!!!!
>P.S.
Bah, more like B.S.... watch closely, kids, this is where Abinales shoots
himself in the foot. This is too good to be true. Parang Punch-Line ng
joke.
>Yong nagpapadala ng sex jokes at yong nag-sign ng pangalan niya, "Pining
>Garcia." I did not know that a sex pervert and a male chauvinist pig graces
>this "lane." If you recall the 70s, "Pining Garcia" is derivative from
>"Pininger ko siya," i.e., I attached my finger into her vagina. A true
>sexist and possibly a woman beater here, folks. Siguro maliit ang titi.
Hahahaha!!!!!! GAGO!!!!!!! If you took the time to read the postings on
this newsgroup first, so you could learn the culture here, as is
standard Usenet Netiquette, you would see from the signatures on the
message that Pining Garcia, Marian Nebriaga, and Gorgeous are one and
the same. Hindi lang maliit ang titi, wala siyang titi!!! Oh, such
language. But Marian has more balls and brains than you'll ever have,
Abinales. For one thing, she would never write a message like yours on
her first foray into a newsgroup.
You know, this is going to sound corny, but I've grown to care about
this newsgroup and its denizens. For what it's worth, this is *my*
virtual community, my home away from home on the Net, my tambayan on the
InfoBahn. I give it what I can. Ordinarily I'd encourage every Pinoy in
cyberspace to come here at least once and log in, just to see what it's
like. It can be quite mind boggling to swap Erap jokes with a fellow in
Sydney or read about the adventures of a girl running over a deer in her
car in the U.S. (walang deer sa mga kalye ng Manila). And of course,
discuss those time-honored Pinoy staples, politics and showbiz. Of
course there will be disagreements sometimes. But this is our global
virtual barakada, and though it is not an exclusive one, Abinales, you
have a lot of work ahead of you to make up for that obnoxious first
impression you made on your trial post to SCF before you can ever feel
comfortable or at home here. So either shape up, Abinales, or get the
hell out.
- end of RANT -
Ah, but it feels good to get that off my chest!!!!!
Tata Retong, how'd I do this time? A review would be most appreciated.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
jim ayson
somewhere in metro manila, philippines
fj...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Jim Ayson
About two minutes after I sent off the post, I just realized
that "P. Abinales" could just as well be a woman riding on
her husband's account. Well whether that's a "he" or "she"
or whatever, the flame stays.
Bobby Factura
|> Kasasali ko lang dito sa newsgroup (after weeks of trying to get into it) at
< stuff deleted - some good points in there >
|>
|> P. Abinales
|> Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
|>
|> Yong nagpapadala ng sex jokes at yong nag-sign ng pangalan niya, "Pining
|> Garcia." I did not know that a sex pervert and a male chauvinist pig graces
|> this "lane." If you recall the 70s, "Pining Garcia" is derivative from
|> "Pininger ko siya," i.e., I attached my finger into her vagina. A true
|> sexist and possibly a woman beater here, folks. Siguro maliit ang titi.
|>
|>
Hold your fire kapwa SCFers. The best way to approach this is to send him/her
e-mail which I already did or else you might scare off a kapwa pinoy.
As mentioned before, nooobeees will always be part of netlife, after all
we once were one. At least, he/she didn't question Lea's identity.
To douse the fire, here's a poem
Ang Talong (bow)
Ang talong
Pag wala si mister
Ang talong
Ang Ampalaya (bow)
Ang ampalaya
Pag wala si lolo
Ang ampalaya
(bow)
Does this qualify for inclusion in Phoebe's web page?
- Bobby
--
bfac...@aol.com
bo...@ritz.mordor.com
bfac...@server4.bell-atl.com
Mihali Felipe
Ano ba 'tong Prop 187 na 'to?! Will somebody please give me the gist of
it! I used to be aware of such things... until I got here.
Our dailies back home have more stuff in it.
Like the Manila Bulletin... O kaya the Philippine Daily
Inquirer. All we get here is this jejune Times Picayune na walang
laman. Blecch! I could get the New York times pero medyo mahal.
Weekly World News na lang kaya? May babaing nanganak ng dalag kaya
duon? Matignan nga, hehehe.
- Mihali
"My roommates are kind of OK, they just get to my nerves whenever
they're awake."
Pining Garcia
>
> Kasasali ko lang dito sa newsgroup (after weeks of trying to get into it) at
> as contribution, heto yong comments ko sa "debate" on "idealism", Inang
> Bayan, "uuwi ba o hindi", at "hoy, magserbisyo naman kayo sa Pinas for
> Philippines 2000"
O loko - nakatikim ka ng plems galore, ano? Bagong bago ka lang dito ang
yabang ng dating mo - ULUL! Kulang pa yung natikman mo. Here's more for
you!
+** + *
,,,_ ++* + + +* +* *
[_+__>======+++ *+ *++ + +*+ +
/~~~~~~\__ + *+ *+*+ *+* +
/__________\ * +*+
(OoooooooooO) +** + *
~~~~~~~~~~~ ,,,_ ++* + + +* +* *
,,_ * + + _ <_+__>======+++ *+ *++ + +*+ +
___>=====+ * ++++ /~~~~~~~~~~~\ * +*+
~~~~~\ * + * (OooOooOooOooO)
oooooO) ,,,_ ++* + + +* +* *~~~~~~
~~~~~~ [_+__>======+++ *+ *++ + +*+ +
/~~~~~~\__ + *+ *+*+ *+* +
/__________\ * +*+
(OoooooooooO) +** + *
~~~~~~~~~~~ ,,,_ ++* + + +* +* *
[_+__>======+++ *+ *++ + +*+ +
/~~~~~~\__ + *+ *+*+ *+* +
/__________\ * +*+
(OooooooooO)
~~~~~~~~~~
> a. Tama na nga kayo. Sa mga nandito, aminin nating lahat, mga oportunista tayo.
Oy puwede ba - huwag kang mandamay! Who gave you the permission to include
us - IKAW LANG ANG OPORTUNISTA! Gung-gong! Tignan mo nga and you even made
a declaration that you were riding on your spouse's account...di ba yan ang
obvious case na opportunista! Pati asawa mo idinamay mo sa kapal mo!
> P. Abinales
> Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
>
>
> P.S.
>
> Yong nagpapadala ng sex jokes at yong nag-sign ng pangalan niya, "Pining
> Garcia." I did not know that a sex pervert and a male chauvinist pig graces
> this "lane." If you recall the 70s, "Pining Garcia" is derivative from
> "Pininger ko siya," i.e., I attached my finger into her vagina. A true
> sexist and possibly a woman beater here, folks. Siguro maliit ang titi.
You just made a complete fool of yourself. You just waltzed in here
without doing your assignment. As my SCF friends have earlier posted, I am
Woman, hear me roar! "Miss pa po ako!" (prom di Pinoy commercial so many
years ago). Ibig mong sabihin bastos pala ang ibig sabihin ng alias ko?
OH NO! Seriously, hindi ka lang pala bobo at judgmental kundi prude at
hypocrite pa!!! Kung nababastusan ka sa alias ko, that's your problem
dahil makitid ang utak mo - utak ipis!!!
Again, kung ginawa mo ang assignment mo bago ka umappear dito, hindi sa
akin galing yung mga sex jokes ano? Ha! ha! ha! Kawawa ka naman. Sa
tingin mo ba may papansin sa iyo dito next time pag sali mo? Siguro pati
asawa mo mahihirapan dahil binaboy mo ang account niya. Sino ngayon ang
hibang? Ha? Magsalita ka????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A.K.A. "Gorgeous"
O ayan ha, balik Pining na naman ako due to popular demand (naku ha!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rhenee M Blanco
>In article <1994Nov9.181300.27889@desire>, damo...@desire.wright.edu writes:
>|> Kasasali ko lang dito sa newsgroup (after weeks of trying to get into it) a
t
>
>< stuff deleted - some good points in there >
>
Oo nga, sa halip na Development in 2000 years, inabante pa nga sa 200. :)
>|>
>|> P. Abinales
>|> Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
^^^^^^^^^^ Naku pataykambataka sa sysAd diyan. Subukan mo kaya ang
Youngstown Freenet. Kung kapareho sila ng Columbus freenet
ay library card lamang ang kailangan basically para sa email
access atbp (pero walang telnet). Magwalk in ka lang sa public
library diyan para magtanong, at pati terminal meron doon.
[...]
>Hold your fire kapwa SCFers. The best way to approach this is to send him/her
>e-mail which I already did or else you might scare off a kapwa pinoy.
>As mentioned before, nooobeees will always be part of netlife, after all
>we once were one. At least, he/she didn't question Lea's identity.
>
Actually flaming newbies is a sport in itself, specially in the summer/fall.
>To douse the fire, here's a poem
>
[...Bakit ang dami-daming bastos na posts? Ano na ang hitsura ng scf
pagdating ng spring?]
Happy weekend,
-Rhenee
Deer Hunter
>
>[Sorry, folks; I'm not in the habit of flaming people, but this shithead
>was really, really, REALLY asking for it. Please pardon this (rare)
>outburst from me.]
I don't think you even need to apologize. If anybody should be apologizing
around here, it's this...MPHMMMMMPPPPH (<--that does not stand for anything;
just trying to control myself). It's very rare that anybody can get
a rise out of me around here on the net, but this one definitely
succeeded.
Mamaya, kilala ko pa 'to from the Dayton community. Ay naku, hindi
na ako mag-a-attend ng party doon.:)
Joyce T.
---------
joy...@netcom.com
Dave Flewitt
included here (*Just call it the *condensed version*).
In article 5...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, fj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jim Ayson) writes:
>once in a while. There's this new asshole in our virtual community
>sneaking in on his wife's university account who has decided to jump in
>damo...@desire.wright.edu babbled mindlessly....
>>But this does not only apply to Pinoys in Amerika. J. Ayson can indeed be
>This is the same kind of pea-brained idiot on an os.advocacy group who
>domain with the InterNIC for appropriate replies to turds like Abinales.
>enough except to ignorant lunkheads the likes of Abinales.
>Secondly, Abinales must have been hiding his miniscule brain under a
>rock for the past year because he still thinks that Net access from the
>>P. Abinales
>>Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
>You pathetic Parasite! Get your own account with a commercial provider!
>the same. Hindi lang maliit ang titi, wala siyang titi!!! Oh, such
>language. But Marian has more balls and brains than you'll ever have,
>Abinales.
>Abinales, you
>have a lot of work ahead of you to make up for that obnoxious first
>impression you made on your trial post to SCF before you can ever feel
>comfortable or at home here. So either shape up, Abinales, or get the
>hell out.
>- end of RANT -
Come on Jim, don't hold back.
Tell us what you really think about the guy.
I don't know about Rhett, but I liked it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Flewitt | If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love
df...@hcsd.hac.com | you; but if you really make them think they'll hate you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Dumas
da> From: damo...@desire.wright.edu
da>
da> Kasasali ko lang dito sa newsgroup (after weeks of trying to get into
da> it) at as contribution, heto yong comments ko sa "debate" on
da> "idealism", Inang Bayan, "uuwi ba o hindi", at "hoy, magserbisyo naman
da> kayo sa Pinas for Philippines 2000"
[snip]... [snip]...
Wow.. very touching.... NOT!
Hindi ko na hahabaan dahil alam kong marami kang replies/flames na mata-
tanggap sa katarantaduhang sulat mo.
Now back to your hole...
Pining Garcia
A. Nunez) wrote:
> Come on, folk! Everyone's entitled to his opinion. If you think that his views
> are not acceptable then ignore it or if you want, flame him, as you did. But >
Come on, Jon!
You chose to take an unpopular stance and that's your prerogative. You
mentioned that you might know him but that's not the reason you were siding
with him... you'll have to make yourself more convincing! My foot! Yeah,
sure! Let's face it, he was very offensive! That's no way to join a
community. Let's say you were in your living room with some friends, chit
chatting, merry making, then someone barges in and starts hurling insults
at everyone. Would you welcome him? I don't think so!!! If some of his
attacks were directed at you personally, your post would have carried a
very different tone. It's easy for you to say ignore his views if they are
not acceptable simply because he did not include you!
> Aray! 8) Anyway, as I told Marian Nebriaga (if this is her real name),
> magbalik-Gorgeous na lang sya, and I think after knowing this derivative
> I was right. O ano Marian, balik-Gorgeous ka na?
I know I will (again) - I just like he flexibility & variety of having 2
different aliases.
> In closing, let me welcome P. Abinales back to SCF.
Jon, I don't know if you've noticed my past posts but I'm one of those who
go out of my way to welcome new comers - that's typically Pinoy
hospitality. Pero with Abinales??? Naaah!!! This is like telling an
intruder - please come to my home again in the presence of my friends and
embarrass me with your offensive behavior! I don't welcome his likes to
SCF; after all, who's going to prevent or stop him from lurking or posting
here? For someone who had the nerve to do what he did, he'll be just as
thick skinned coming back here! Welcoming him is a total waste of time &
energy!
Jon A. Nunez
fj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu says...
>
>on the Net, and in SCF in particular. But I'll have to cross the line
>sneaking in on his wife's university account who has decided to jump in
>point to piss me off. And some others as well. Masama talaga ang dating
>niya. Worse than the B.O. of Gorgeous' beloved Frenchies. So FLAME ON.
>No more mister nice guy. Abinales, this one's for you.
Come on, folk! Everyone's entitled to his opinion. If you think that his views
are not acceptable then ignore it or if you want, flame him, as you did. But to
call him an "asshole," "worse than B.O.," gago, turds, etc., you're breaking your
own citation of the Netiquette. If you [I'm not referring to you alone, Mr. Ayson
-- "you" could be you, me, my wife (who has an account also and reads SCF) and the
rest of the SCFers] find another person's opinion offensive, I think it doesn't
give you the right to call him names. Calling him names and rebutting his
opinions are two different things. Netiquette? I know from experience that you break
some Netiquette sometimes. Who doesn't?
>damo...@desire.wright.edu babbled mindlessly....
Please spare her wife. damoroso is not equal to Abinales!
>>lahat makapasok at makapag-enjoy sa luxuries na ini-enjoy ni Mr. Ayson (which
>>I suspect includes access to e-mail networks, no? Dahil hindi naman siguro
>>makabayad si Mr. Ayson, or for that matter si R. Feria mula sa kanilang bulsa
>>sa cost of phone/satellite lines, etc. Charge sa ADB siguro? Which in turn
>>charge sa mga hampas-lupang Asyano na pinilit ng kanilang mga gobyerno na
>
>O-ver! First of all, what does access to an e-mail account have to do
>with anything? E-mail here is available to every employee. Everyone from
>a data entry operator to a file clerk to a secretary right up to the
>president has access to an e-mail account. This is used for internal
>communications, and the network just happens to have a gateway to the
>Internet as well. So a data entry clerk earning P5,000 a month can flame
>Abinales and get a reply back from the turd about his high-flying
>lifestyle.
But then, your network is there primarily for ADB business, not for surfing
the Net, just because you or the clerk have access to it. BTW, does ADB allow
its employees with accounts to use it for personal business, like surfing the
Net, even during lunch time?
>Secondly, Abinales must have been hiding his miniscule brain under a
>rock for the past year because he still thinks that Net access from the
>R.P. involves expensive "phone/satellite lines" and that somehow I'm
To you, it may not be expensive, but for many, it still is!
>frivolously frittering away the tax money of some grocer in Nepal by
>posting some tsismis about Kris Aquino during my lunch break. The
>connection from this network to the Internet is done via PHnet,
>originally intended to be an academic/research network. The initial
>funding was provided by the Department of Science and Technology using
It's good for the DOST to extend this to ADB. But for the most of the
organizations in the Philippines, this is still a dream.
>some of my tax pesos. To be self-sustaining, the network has signed up
I thought ADB employees' salaries are tax-free.
>job, and it's part of my job to use this facility to communicate with
>technology vendors or ferret out patches and utilities for our systems
>here. I do quite a bit of work on the Net as well.
Yes, but for reading and posting in SCF? This (system administration, etc.)
does not justify your use of your ADB account for other than what you are
expected to do with it.
>[SNIPPED: Access to BBS with Internet connection, etc.]
>Internet. I can flame you from there too. No, it's not completely free.
>For the International access we each pay the princely sum of P600 a
>YEAR, which we use as a pool for telecoms charges. Our goal is to spread
Princely? Wait till you hear about how much they are charging in the U.S., or
here in Taiwan!
>the network to other parts of the Philippines, get cities wired. Build
>active local virtual communities. I hear from the Cebu operators that
>Bacolod and Davao might be coming aboard soon. If we can't all have
>Information highways, maybe we can have some information eskinitas. So
>in the future I can flame Abinales from a PC in Davao as well.
This is commendable, that is, trying to build virtual communities. But to
say that you're going to use it for flaming Abinales, I'm anot sure about that.
I thought your aims are noble, but it seems it's not. You just want to use
it for flaming people who goes against your ideals or opinions.
>I'm also involved in a project to put up a Philippine Internet
>Cooperative, to set up a site and offer full Net access via PHnet to
>members at cost, for individuals without access to universities or
>organizations on the Net. Less expensive than a commercial service. The
>idea is once we can get a model Internet coop running, other coops
>around the country can get up and running as well. We don't have to do
>this. Trip lang namin for whatever obscure reason.
Again, commendable. I might want to be a part of this. In fact, this has
been one of my impossible dream (impossible because I couldn't do it alone),
that is, making available Internet access to all.
>It's really too bad you lumped in Rommel Feria in your diatribe. Rommel
>is an earnest young man taking grad studies in U.P. and teaches
>[SNIP ... SNIP]
I agree with you on this. Poor Rommel. (Tuloy pa ba ang get together?)
>>mag-bayad ng buwis, parte nito papunta sa pag-subsidize ng high lifestyle ng
>>mga taga-ADB na kagaya ni Mr. Ayson. Yong perch ni Mr. Ayson, hindi talagang
>
>Now that we've demolished Abinales' ridiculous notion that Internet
>access is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, I'd really like
>to know what the hell is this high lifestyle Abinales talks about and
>how can I get in? I'd like to play polo in Forbes and have a yacht
>docked at the Manila Yacht club too.
It still is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, at least, in the
Philippines. What you're saying about reaching maybe to the grassroots level is
still far away. Ridiculous notion? I'm afraid not.
>during a devaluation or pay taxes. Unfortunately, as a tech support type
>grunt in the computer services group, our salaries are pegged to our
>counterparts in local comparator organizations like BPI, PCI Bank,
>Citibank etc. So yes, we earn in pesos, and based on what I know from my
>fellow computer professionals here, we earn at industry-standard rates
>for the MIS field. And as you know, one of the reason the Philippines is
Come on! Your earning the same as the other poor guys in Makati? Probably
not the same as the MIS staff, probably for MIS officers or VPs. 8)
>so attractive for foreign investors today are the low salaries compared
>to say, Singapore or Taiwan, or definitely the US and Canada. So tell me
>more about that lifestyle again, mukhang masarap yan, ah! I don't
>generally talk about my job on this newsgroup. It can be fun in a nerdy,
>tech-oriented sort of way, but I don't see booze and babes and champagne
>around my workstation.
Bawal dito ang babes and champagne during work, so I don't know this. 8)
>>perch yon, dahil parang 1st world island yang ADB HQ sa slum that is Manila;
>>at saka yong Manila, malaking parasite na naka-kontrol sa ibang parte ng
>>Pilipinas.
>
>Aba, mukhang matagal ka nang wala dito. The ADB HQ is in an island of
>shoppers! The bank moved to the Ortigas Center about two years ago down
>[SNIPPED: Blah, blah about ADB and Ortigas ...]
I think Abinales was not talking literally about ADB being in Manila or what.
Manila symbolizes much of the Philippines, and I think he meant that. ADB indeed
can symbolize the 1st World.
>What I really want to do is give each of them from security guards,
>salesgirls, to corporate execs, an e-mail account so that Abinales can
>write to them about their high-flying lifestyles and they can mail-bomb
>him right back. So he can learn to distinguish the individual's ideas
>from the employer. No, Ortigas Center is not the Philippines, but it
>doesn't pretend to be, either. It's a place to work, as far as I'm
>concerned.
Eto ka na naman. Abinales did not mention anything about high flying lifestyles,
he mentioned only about the email access that we all have as "luxuries", which is
in some ways true. This doesn't mean that Abinales will write about/against them,
if he sees the number of email accounts on their .sigs. Are we not Asians supporting
your salaries?
>>Mr. Ayson can wax high-and-mighty that he is "serving" the
>>Inang Bayan; pero I doubt if he really knows his "Inang Bayan".
>>Can he survive Mindanao? I doubt it.
>
>You know that sounds a lot like basic U.P. aktibista rhetoric from the
>70's, that "serving the Inang Bayan" line. I've never used that phrase.
>No, I went to that burgis Jesuit-run school down Katipunan. Instead we
>learned other phrases like "Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam", "Man for Others",
>"Para sa Diyos at Bayan", "Tulong Dunong"... and other top 40 tunes.
>Abinales, you want to flame that institution? Be my guest. See if you
>survive the reaction.
Eto ka na naman (to the tune of the APO Hiking Society whatever). BTW, I
know some Ateneans who are aktibista, also. Were you not one of them?
>As for Mindanao, I wouldn't know, I've never been there, so how would
>you know? Well if I take a trip there, I'll prepare first. I'm sure
>I'll manage.
Are you sure? I'm from Mindanao and I'll never forget the horrors that I
hear of people getting killed. Or going without electricity for days. Or
hear the sufferings. And more. BTW, if you're going to Mindanao, don't stay
at hotels, stay in the barrios, with some of the rural folk, near some rebel-
infested area, and let's see if you can manage. 8)
>>P. Abinales
>>Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
>
>You pathetic Parasite! Get your own account with a commercial provider!
>Think of all those student fees that subsidize your high-flying
>lifestyle manifested in your wife's university Internet account! Pay
>your way!!!!
Calling names, again! Besides, we're not even sure if the wife is really
a university staff. I think they're grad students.
BTW, I have a feeling I know Abinales. And it is not because of this
that I "sound" like defending him. It's just that I want to be fair.
He gave his opinion, so let's respect it. You, she, they, I gave your/her/their/my
opinion, so let's respect each other's opinion and be civilized. I hate calling
names because it is not only bad Netiquette, but bad etiquette, in general.
Likewise, to say (not you Mr. Ayson) that newbies on SCF cannot pass judgments on
SCF old-timers is being "oh-so-almighty" (from Joyce T. <joy...@netcom.com>). I
consider myself a newbie here on SCF, and to talk about seniority here is beyond
my understanding of the concept behind Internet (as I know it today) or SCF for
that matter. I share/give my ideas to several groups on the Internet, and never
in my years on the Net have I been told that I could not give advice to an oldtimer
just because I'm a newbie.
>>this "lane." If you recall the 70s, "Pining Garcia" is derivative from
>>"Pininger ko siya," i.e., I attached my finger into her vagina. A true
Aray! 8) Anyway, as I told Marian Nebriaga (if this is her real name),
magbalik-Gorgeous na lang sya, and I think after knowing this derivative
I was right. O ano Marian, balik-Gorgeous ka na?
>>sexist and possibly a woman beater here, folks. Siguro maliit ang titi.
>
>Hahahaha!!!!!! GAGO!!!!!!! If you took the time to read the postings on
>this newsgroup first, so you could learn the culture here, as is
>standard Usenet Netiquette, you would see from the signatures on the
>message that Pining Garcia, Marian Nebriaga, and Gorgeous are one and
>the same. Hindi lang maliit ang titi, wala siyang titi!!! Oh, such
>language. But Marian has more balls and brains than you'll ever have,
>Abinales. For one thing, she would never write a message like yours on
>her first foray into a newsgroup.
Again, Mr. Ayson, eto ka na naman (hmm, hmm, hmm ... APO). He may be wrong
on his assumption about "Pining Garcia", nevertheless to say that Marian has
more balls and brains than Abinales just because he was being controversial
(Inday Badiday, nasaan, ka?) on his inaugural posting was just beyond my
understanding. Are controversial opinions only for "old timers" like you or
Marian or Joyce? When can I, being a newbie here, post such opinions. After
1 year, 2 years, or more? I think I'm doing it now, so do I get your flames
now? BTW, you may send directly you flames to either of my two addresses: see
below for details. If you want, you may call me long distance -- but no collect
calls or reverse charges, please. 8)
>{SNIPPED: SCF being Ayson's tambayan, home away from home, etc.]
>And of course, discuss those time-honored Pinoy staples, politics and showbiz.
>Of course there will be disagreements sometimes. But this is our global virtual
>barakada, and though ti is not an exclusive one, Abinales, you have a lot of
>work ahead of you to make up for that obnoxious first impression you made on
>your trial post to SCF before you can ever feel comfortable or at home here. So
>either shape up, Abinales, or get the hell out.
Aha, the "old timer" showing his weight around. Since I'm a newbie here, are you,
Ayson, the duly elected spokesperson here? I'm asking you this because it seems
that you're telling Abinales that he cannot be here on SCF unless he shapes up.
And I thought SCF is our global virtual barkada. Barkadas are supposed to help
each other. Why don't we instead guide him about the so-called Netiquette or the
ins-and-outs of SCF, instead of threatening him outright.
O, baka kaya ganito ang reaksyon natin dahil may natamaan sa sinabi nya tungkol
sa pagiging oportunista natin. Ako, oportunista? Maaari.
In closing, let me welcome P. Abinales back to SCF.
>- end of RANT -
Whew! 8) Ako rin ...
Jon A.N. 8-)
--
><> ><> ><> ><> Jonathan VA A. Nunez <>< <>< <>< <><
Keelung, Taiwan 202 ROC <> disclaimer: standard...
+886-2-462-8283/-9388 fax <> jan...@tpts1.seed.net.tw
http://www.????.???.??/ <> gov...@twnmoe10.edu.tw
------------------------------------------------------
Copyleft (c) 1994. NewNews & Co. All lefts reserved.
Rhett Valino Pascual
JJJJJJJJJJIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I knew you could do it!!! Just Flame Baby!!! I only wish that I could
have posted whatever that person posted so I could have said that I made
Jim Ayson flame me!!!
Hear Yee! Hear Yee!!! TO ALL DENIZENS AND INHABITANTS OF THE SCF
COMMUNITY: I hereby announce that Jim Ayson has completed a Bachelor's
Degree (with High Honors) from the Tatang Retong Correspondence School of
Flaming.
Jim's Oral examination consisted of flaming a clueless newbie. Though
the flame was long, it was quite mind-numbing in detail. Generally,
flames consist of more bile, but Jim showed his true emotion which is the
core of any real flame.
Tatang Retong
Pee-Hach-D in Plaming.
--
****If you are an alum from Berkeley, e-mail me for info about the informal
directory for alums. If you are from the Class of 1990, e-mail me to be
included in the Keeping In Touch section of the Cal Monthly.
gldn...@uclink.berkeley.edu
Rhett Valino Pascual
Ok, P. Abinales was quite offensive. However, I urge scf to give this
person (male/female can't be determined) a chance. You all might have
forgotten that I was a major prick and it took about two years for that
to end. With age comes wisdom. Pero ako, "W" pa lang. :-)
Furthermore, though the tone was mean, it was posted from a deep truth.
We can't ignore that. BTW, not all of it was true (see Jim's rebuttal).
Lastly, this was the most exciting post I have seen this Saturday!!!
Come on guys! We haven't had this much kagulohan since a while back.
Tatang Retong
VERANO, JOSE VICTOR
>In article <nebriaga-1...@gim-mac-107.stanford.edu> dated 11 Nov 1994 21:12:45
>GMT, nebr...@camis.stanford.edu says...
Abinales may have posted his opinion pero bastos parin siya.
Okay naman kahit na conflicting ang opinion niya eh pero
wag siyang bastos. He has the right to voice out his opinion
but he can't step on other people, wala siyang karapatan.
Para siyang bata eh.
Pining Garcia
Jose,
Paano mo ginawa yon? Pagkahaba haba nung explanation ko kay Jon Nunez & P.
Abinales, e puwede mo palang i-explain in 5 lines lang (grin). Bow na ako
sa iyo.
Mihali Felipe
>Come on, folk! Everyone's entitled to his opinion. If you think that his views
>are not acceptable then ignore it or if you want, flame him, as you did.
>
>call him an "asshole," "worse than B.O.," gago, turds, etc.,
>
>opinions are two different things.
>
I confess, I confess. I called him names and it was wrong. I got
emotional and carried away. My apologies.
What really pissed me off with what he said was his premise, that all
filipinos in the US are opportunists. Well there may be some, there is
at least one - a certain P Abinales who is a self proclaimed oportunista.
No, I think this is what REALLY pissed me off: that
I've met an honest to rottenness filipino oportunista who boldly declares
he is one, with no compunction whatsoever. AND that he's from UP. Grrr.
Nevertheless, I hereby retract some of the things that I've said, which
are listed in column I, and replace them with those listed in column II.
Column I Column II
"Kung hindi ka ba naman isang "Kung hindi ba naman isang malaking
malaking tanga..." katangahan itong pinagsasabi mo..."
"Tanga.." "Katangahan..."
"Gago..." "Kagaguhan..."
- Trying to direct the rebuke on the action and not on the doer.
> in the closing, let me welcome P. Abinales back to SCF.
>Jon A.N. 8-)
He's welcome, more than welcome. We've got napalm bombs in stock for
more than 500 "P. Abinaleses"!
- Mihali
***************************************************
Q. Ano sabi ng nurse kay Mr. Matchstick na naghihintay ng news mula sa
delivery room.
A. It's a-poy!
Unknown
A. Nunez) wrote:
>
> I am not defending him. If it sounds like I am defending it's not because
> I know him but because I believe in each individual's right to voice his
> opinion. It could be you making that posting and me flaming you to high heavens.
> I could not find any offensive remarks in his main postings (points a & b). The
You claim you don't see anything wrong with his post. For the umpteenth
time, let me repeat: that is your prerogative; a good number of us saw the
offensiveness in his post - that's our prerogative too! HE decided to
leave this group & said his good bye. Where does that leave you now - his
cheap shots left you here to face the consequences!!! Some friend he is,
huh?
> only offensive remark that I could find is his postscript (P.S.), although not
> totally. May I ask you, Marian, why you chose "Pining Garcia" as your alias when
> you could have chosen several others that are not as offensive as this. Especially
> now that the derivative of your alias has been brought to our attention. Don't tell
> me that you were unaware of this derivative. If you enjoy using it, certainly I don't
> enjoy seeing or hearing it.
If you don't see anything offensive with his posts which were directed at
EVERYBODY when he said "lahat tayo oportunista, blah, blah, blah," along
the same line of mentality, why are you so offended with my alias? I chose
it because I found it naughty and that's one side of my personality. It's
all done in the spirit of fun, not malice! You didn't think I was too
naive to know its meaning, did you really? I grew up in a predominantly
male family kaya siguro pilya ako. Is that so bad? Pilya is different
from being obnoxious. I've gotten private messages from SCF folks who
liked it. Why should I change it now just because YOU and your buddy
Abinales dislike it?
> The only section your name was included was in the P.S. I believe he had some
> valid points when he brought to our attention (at least to me) the derivative.
> As a woman, you should have been "flattered" with his disgust of the use of
> "Pining Garcia." He thought it was a male behind that alias, and as any gentle-
> man would react to such situations, he calls you (remember, he thought you were a
> male) a sexist and woman beater. His disgust is manifested with his use of foul
> language. Did you see any foul language anywhere in his posting? You and the rest
> who joined the bandwagon of flaming him were the ones who used foul and offensive
> language!
Flattered? Puwede ba, prudes are one of my pet peeves. Sorry na lang kayo
kung na shock kayo!! Kung nasisilaw kayo sa alias ko, then dark glasses
kayo or ignore my posts. One does not need to use foul language to be
offensive - a classic example was that of your friend's post.
> >> Using your analogy, it's like somebody barging in to
> >> say that he does not agree of what you said about during that merry gathering.
> >> Would you throw him away just because he doesn't agree that, for example, the
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Siguro, if he didn't post that P.S., his dating would not be so unpleasant.
> It would have been taken as yet another of those postings. As I said, I didn't
> find any offensiveness in his a & b postings. Show me an offensive line and
> you have your case.
You just don't get it, do you? Read my lips again: his entire post was
offensive EVEN WITHOUT the P.S. portion of it And even if it did not
involve my alias, I would have also said my two cents worth when he started
lashing out at EVERYONE undeservingly!
> Bayan." Did I feel insulted? No, but I felt more ashamed for being where I am now,
> high above on my tall perch. After being here, I'm not sure whether I can survive even
> in Manila now (that is, work and live there with the salary that I'll probably be
> getting), let alone in Mindanao, where I was born.
>
You did not feel insulted because you admitted guilt to his allegations.
Why should we all go on a guilt trip just because you did? Somehow, for a
lot of us, he just did not drive his point home.
> Ikaw, hindi? Why are you still in the U.S.? Because the opportunity is outside the
> Philippines, that's why!
HINDI! I am in the U.S. for tons of reasons, none of which are any of your
business. I don't owe you nor your friend, Abinales, any explanations. And
if there were indeed opportunites outside the Philippines as is the case
with most of us, what's wrong with that? That does not make us oportunistas
because the word has a negative connotation, in case you didn't know.
> Why, did I say he was not offensive? Refresh my mememort but I am forgetful (really!)
> and I couldn't remember saying he was not offensive.
Read his post again - and don't forget to read between the lines. Hindi ka
lang pala ulianin e - malabo rin pala ang mata mo. Read your post that I
responded to. You said "he may be offensive, but still a Filipino." Duh!
> It's OK with "old timers", it's not OK with newbies and the
> rest of SCFers who do not belong to your circle? Is that it?
This is really getting to be very frustrating - I'm just going in circles
with you. It's not okay to be offensive for ANYONE in this group...PERIOD!
> Does this mean that I'm not welcome here anymore?
Who or what can prevent you from this group? Only you, yourself, so that's
entirely up to you.
> BTW, you kept on mentioning that "unsolicited offensiveness/insults" are not welcome.
> Have you stopped to ponder that the so-called "offensiveness/insults" of Abinales were
> in fact brought about (solicited) by the views he read in previous postings? Is there
> such an "unsolicited" response?
See what a selective judgment you have? Abinales can express offensive
views at EVERYBODY and that's perfectly acceptable with you. But most of
us who were simply reacting to his offensive post did not have any right to
feel hurt nor angry. Ano ba yan????
> Basahin mo rin and posting ko. I said newsgroups are for everyone! I agree with you
> that "nobody in his right mind would welcome personal insults and unsolicted
> offensiveness" but to throw him out, as you did, from any future discussions is
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> not just right.
Ha! ha! ha! Who threw him out??? Didn't he take it upon himself to leave
when he posted the thread "I'm Out of Here?" He couldn't take the heat
generated by his negative behavior.
> I read several newsgroups, with more heated discussions than what
> we recently are doing, but never have I seen such a seemingly orchestrated throwing
> out of a poster or seemingly orchestrated bombing of a poster! It seems that everyone
> who cared to make some comments against Abinales (or me?) are from the same boat.
Orchestrated??? Didn't he deserve it after attacking EVERYONE here??? He
brought it upon himself - he made himself a moving target for flames...tsk!
tsk! tsk!
> BTW, you don't have to shout at me to make your point. Although I have a poor hearing,
> I can hear enough to understand what you want to say.
Have you ever considered enlisting sa Philippine Ngebi (was "Navy" - grin)
Mihali Felipe
Pinahirapan mo pa 'kong hanapin ang original post mo....
Isa lang masasabi ko sa 'yo, damoroso@ desire.wright.edu.
Hoy ungas. Ungas ka!
In article <1994Nov9.181300.27889@desire> damo...@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Kasasali ko lang dito sa newsgroup (after weeks of trying to get into it) at
>as contribution, heto yong comments ko sa "debate" on "idealism", Inang
>Bayan, "uuwi ba o hindi", at "hoy, magserbisyo naman kayo sa Pinas for
>Philippines 2000"
Sana hindi ka na lang muna sumali
>a. Tama na nga kayo. Sa mga nandito, aminin nating lahat, mga oportunista tayo.
>This applies lalong lalo na sa mga taga-UP (to be more precise yong mga taga-
>PGH). Nakamura na nga tayo ng edukasyon (subsidized yong UP ng taxes ng mga
>Pinoy, or to be more precise, yong mga middle at lower class Pinoys dahil
>as economists would point out, regressive at highly anti-poor yong tax system
>natin) dahil nasa UP tayo (top school of the nation, kuno; I doubt it today).
>Mahusay yong diploma at - aminin na natin - ginamit natin heto para makapasok
>sa American market. Yong ibinayad ng mga med students sa PGH wala sa katiting
>ng tunay na cost ng edukasyon. Nandito karamihan sa kanila dahil nandito ang
>pera. Yong nasyonalismo at "pag-ibig sa inang bayan," panakip-butas na lang
>yan sa simpleng oportunismo.
Kung hindi ka ba naman isang malaking tanga. Hindi mo ba alam na karamihan
sa tumutulong magpaunlad sa Pilipinas ay nag-aral sa ibang bansa?!! Ilan sa
mga PhD sa UP ang nagaral sa Estados Unidos. Bibigyan kita ng halimbawa ha
Sa UP-NIGS (Nat'l Inst. of Geol. Sci.)
Dr. Graciano Yumul -- Tokyo University
Dr. Emmanuel Tamesis -- Stanford University
Dr. Priscilla Matias -- Stanford University
Dr. Ernesto Sonido -- Washington University
Dr. BEnjamin Austria -- Harvard University
Dr. Teodoro Santos -- Penn State University
Dr. Rogelio Datuin -- Tokyo University
Dr. John Encarnacion -- University of Michigan
Dr. Fernando Siringan -- Rice University
Dr. ... atbp etc. etc.
'Di para sa 'yo naging opportunista sila lahat? Tanga. Hindi mo nakikita
ang malasakit ng ibang tao. Gago masakit ang sinabi mo.
>The sooner we admit this, I think the less the "debate" over who can contribute
>or who contributes better to Philippines 2000 will be steered along more
>fruitful lines
Ganitong mga discussion ang mga malalabo. Yung mga sweeping generalities.
walang namang substance ang pinagsasasabi mo.
>b. But this does not only apply to Pinoys in Amerika. J. Ayson can indeed be
>critical of people here, but he also should be aware as to where he is. Yong
>Manila, hindi Pilipinas; yong Asian Development Bank, hindi Divisoria. Hindi
>lahat makapasok at makapag-enjoy sa luxuries na ini-enjoy ni Mr. Ayson (which
>I suspect includes access to e-mail networks, no? Dahil hindi naman siguro
>makabayad si Mr. Ayson, or for that matter si R. Feria mula sa kanilang bulsa
>sa cost of phone/satellite lines, etc. Charge sa ADB siguro? Which in turn
>charge sa mga hampas-lupang Asyano na pinilit ng kanilang mga gobyerno na
>mag-bayad ng buwis, parte nito papunta sa pag-subsidize ng high lifestyle ng
>mga taga-ADB na kagaya ni Mr. Ayson. Yong perch ni Mr. Ayson, hindi talagang
>perch yon, dahil parang 1st world island yang ADB HQ sa slum that is Manila;
>at saka yong Manila, malaking parasite na naka-kontrol sa ibang parte ng
>Pilipinas. Mr. Ayson can wax high-and-mighty that he is "serving" the
>Inang Bayan; pero I doubt if he really knows his "Inang Bayan". Can he survive
>Mindanao? I doubt it.
Isa sa masamang kaugalian ng iba nating mga kababayan ay yung pagiging
inggitero. Kung matagumpay sa buhay ang kababayan mo, huwag mong
sikaping pasamain ang loob niya dahil dito, tanga.
>So, tama na yang daldal ng daldal about sino ang tama. Tama na rin itong
>guilt-trip at pakosensyahan. Lahat tayo - let me reiterate - may mga skeletons
>sa closet. Lahat tayo mga oportunista.
Ikaw siguro.
>P. Abinales
>Nakikisakay lang ako sa e-mail ng asawa ko
>P.S.
[deleted stuff dahil green. Hindi ka lang pala tanga, madumi pa isip mo]
- Mihali
Wala kang joke kasi ginalit mo 'ko. Belat.
Jon A. Nunez
says...
>In article <3a1ppb$j...@aladdin.iii.org.tw>, jan...@tpts1.seed.net.tw (Jon
>A. Nunez) wrote:
>> In article <nebriaga-1...@gim-mac-107.stanford.edu> dated 11 Nov 1994
21:12:45
>> GMT, nebr...@camis.stanford.edu says...
>> >A. Nunez) wrote:
>> >> Come on, folk! Everyone's entitled to his opinion. If you think that his views
>> >> are not acceptable then ignore it or if you want, flame him, as you did. But >
>> >Come on, Jon!
>> >You chose to take an unpopular stance and that's your prerogative. You
>> >mentioned that you might know him but that's not the reason you were siding
>> >with him... you'll have to make yourself more convincing! My foot! Yeah,
>>
>> make me less an SCFer. Anyway, I was right. As you may have read already in his
>> farewell posting, he teaches at U.P. That's why his name was familiar, among
>> other things.
>Jon,
>
>Hinay hinay ka lang muna. You're missing a lot of points here. READ MY
>LIPS - nobody said you were less of an SCFer just because you chose to
>defend him. If you read my message AGAIN above, I even said THAT IS YOUR
>PREROGATIVE!!! In the same manner, it is also our prerogative to dislike
>him. After all, we're normal human beings who dislike UNSOLICITED &
>UNDESERVED insults! Kilala mo siya kaya dinifensahan mo siya - that's
>cool! I personally have no problem with that. Why is it so difficult for
>you to understand that the several SCFers here who have chosen to flame him
>found him offensive? Kami ang nilait niya, pero kami ang jina-judge mo? E
>bagay nga kayong magsama!
I am not defending him. If it sounds like I am defending it's not because
I know him but because I believe in each individual's right to voice his
opinion. It could be you making that posting and me flaming you to high heavens.
I could not find any offensive remarks in his main postings (points a & b). The
only offensive remark that I could find is his postscript (P.S.), although not
totally. May I ask you, Marian, why you chose "Pining Garcia" as your alias when
you could have chosen several others that are not as offensive as this. Especially
now that the derivative of your alias has been brought to our attention. Don't tell
me that you were unaware of this derivative. If you enjoy using it, certainly I don't
enjoy seeing or hearing it.
>> >sure! Let's face it, he was very offensive! That's no way to join a
>> >community. Let's say you were in your living room with some friends, chit
>> >chatting, merry making, then someone barges in and starts hurling insults
>> >at everyone. Would you welcome him? I don't think so!!! If some of his
>> Maybe so. I found his post not so insulting. I saw it as someone who gave his
>> opinion on something.
>Of course!! What do you care - I did not see your name included when he
>posted his attacks!!! And yes, you see it BLINDLY as a MERE opinion on
>something - when in fact it is something very offensive and uncalled for,
>better known as a CHEAP SHOT!!!
The only section your name was included was in the P.S. I believe he had some
valid points when he brought to our attention (at least to me) the derivative.
As a woman, you should have been "flattered" with his disgust of the use of
"Pining Garcia." He thought it was a male behind that alias, and as any gentle-
man would react to such situations, he calls you (remember, he thought you were a
male) a sexist and woman beater. His disgust is manifested with his use of foul
language. Did you see any foul language anywhere in his posting? You and the rest
who joined the bandwagon of flaming him were the ones who used foul and offensive
language!
>> Using your analogy, it's like somebody barging in to
>> say that he does not agree of what you said about during that merry gathering.
>> Would you throw him away just because he doesn't agree that, for example, the
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> grocer around the corner is enriching himself?
>You missed my point again. I know I can easily discern a disagreement from
>an offensive insult; pathetically, you don't!!! If you've lurking around
>here "long enough," you wouldn't even say what you just said above. A lot
>of us have been involved in HEALTHY exchanges of opinions here. Through
>the times, we've graciously accepted opinions that were different for ours.
> However, we do not tolerate the likes of Abinales nor his advocates who
>supports unsolicited offensiveness. Kung unpleasant ang dating mo dito sa
>group, then prepare to be counter attacked too! Take the consequences of
>your actions!!! Abinales just made himself a moving target!! Is that
>stupid or what? He asked for it, he got it!
Siguro, if he didn't post that P.S., his dating would not be so unpleasant.
It would have been taken as yet another of those postings. As I said, I didn't
find any offensiveness in his a & b postings. Show me an offensive line and
you have your case.
BTW, does offensiveness have to be solicited before it can be accepted in SCF? 8)
I too do not support offensiveness, that is why, I came back when I read the postings
or flames against Abinales. I found many of your (not specifically you, Marian)
response
very offensive. You can flame a guy without resorting to name calling.
>> We should not talk only about good things. We should be open about the dark
>> side of things, too.
>Duh! H-E-L-L-O!!???!! Where have you been? Have you been reading the posts
>in this group?
You don't have to knock on my skull that hard! 8) Yes, I've been reading and it
seems more good than bad in here. This is understandable, fun loving we Filipinos are.
>> He says we are oportunista, let him say that! But to say that he is not
>> welcome because he threathens us with this, then the spirit of the Net is lost
>> somehow.
>Again, let me reiterate my point. Anyone can say whatever they want in
>this group - we all know that (thanks but no thanks for the lecture)
>PROVIDED it's said in the spirit of this newsgroup and PROVIDED, it
>conforms to the ground rules of Netiquette. If he were civilized, he could
>have expressed all his disagreements, sans insults!
Again, where are the insults? Point B? It could be anyone else, instead of Ayson,
although Abinales chose to name Ayson. Although I don't work with ADB or WB, I'm
connected with a project funded by a 1st world organization. I also have free access
to email/Internet (see my .edu account?), one of the luxuries that Abinales so
mentioned. I've been to rallies, demos and kicked at and "invited" by the military
for my activities during my university days, and I still think I don't know my "Inang
Bayan." Did I feel insulted? No, but I felt more ashamed for being where I am now,
high above on my tall perch. After being here, I'm not sure whether I can survive even
in Manila now (that is, work and live there with the salary that I'll probably be
getting), let alone in Mindanao, where I was born.
>> BTW, I think I'm an oportunista in some ways because I'm working here,
>> taking advantage of the opportunities here, while Filipinos back home suffer.
>Small wonder Abinales' post did not offend you - you just admitted na
>oportunista ka. Kaya pala!
Ikaw, hindi? Why are you still in the U.S.? Because the opportunity is outside the
Philippines, that's why!
>> Offensive but still Filipino. We cannot alienate someone just because he's
>> offensive. As I said, he's entitled to his opinion. SCF is unlike our home, where
>> we can choose who we want to welcome. SCF is a public forum, a public newsgroup,
>> and such we cannot ban anyone, just because he is offensive. Usenet is for everyone.
>There you go - straight from the horse's mouth! You just said it yourself
>- you just admitted his offensiveness. Ha! ha! ha! You don't want to
>alienate anyone even if he/she is offensive as long as he/she is
>Filipino??? What kind of mentality is that? You're losing me here! There
>are quite a few non-Filipino but PLEASANT, CIVILIZED, SCFers here - Nick
>Jay, Chuck Gardner, Phil Finch, Scott Morrical, Paul Kelley, etc., etc.,
>etc. They are not Pinoys, but we share a common interest with them - i.e.
>the Filipino heritage. They are just as welcome here! In fact, they have
>contributed a lot of positive & constructive efforts to this group, in case
>you missed that too!! Most SCFers will agree with me that this group is not
>off limits to anyone. If they can hop in on the discussions, why not? But
>just keep in mind that we don't tolerate unsolicited
>offensiveness/insults!!!
Why, did I say he was not offensive? Refresh my mememort but I am forgetful (really!)
and I couldn't remember saying he was not offensive. Anyway, when I said "offensive
but still Filipino," I didn't mean to say that it's OK to be bad on SCF as long
as you're Filipino. What I meant to say that he's welcome to post on SCF particularly
because he's Filipino. As you can see in the following sentences, I said that Usenet
is for everyone. You said that you don't tolerate offensiveness/insults but you along
with several others were also throwing offensive language and insults to show your
disgust for Abinales. It's OK with "old timers", it's not OK with newbies and the
rest of SCFers who do not belong to your circle? Is that it? Does this mean that I'm
not welcome here anymore?
BTW, you kept on mentioning that "unsolicited offensiveness/insults" are not welcome.
Have you stopped to ponder that the so-called "offensiveness/insults" of Abinales were
in fact brought about (solicited) by the views he read in previous postings? Is there
such an "unsolicited" response?
>> I reiterate again, I welcome anyone's comments or posts in SCF or any newsgroup for
>> that matter, Abinales or not. You have the right to ignore his postings, if you
>> see his name next time. Or you can disagree. But please, let us not be censors.
>Bottomline: Read my lips bago kung saan saan na naman mapunta ang
>interpretation mo, okay? ANY comments or posts FROM ANYONE (you've
>actually limited it to Filipinos, but we don't) have always been welcome to
>this group. But if you know this newsgroup well enough (or any newsgroup
>for that matter!), NO ONE IN HIS RIGHT MIND WOULD WELCOME PERSONAL INSULTS
>& UNSOLICITED OFFENSIVENESS. Intiendes?
Basahin mo rin and posting ko. I said newsgroups are for everyone! I agree with you
that "nobody in his right mind would welcome personal insults and unsolicted
offensiveness" but to throw him out, as you did, from any future discussions is
not just right. I read several newsgroups, with more heated discussions than what
we recently are doing, but never have I seen such a seemingly orchestrated throwing
out of a poster or seemingly orchestrated bombing of a poster! It seems that everyone
who cared to make some comments against Abinales (or me?) are from the same boat.
BTW, you don't have to shout at me to make your point. Although I have a poor hearing,
I can hear enough to understand what you want to say.
Jon A.N. 8-)
James_R...@mail.asiandevbank.org
>Come on, folk! Everyone's entitled to his opinion. If you think that his
>views are not acceptable then ignore it or if you want, flame him, as
>etc., you're breaking your own citation of the Netiquette. If you [I'm
Y'know Jon, I did write a brief intro explaining that I don't like
flames. Nor do I engage in newbie-bashing as a rule. Abinales however,
had the unusual talent of motivating me to practice some basic Usenet
flaming skills. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. If that opinion
however includes specific references to your name and your employer in a
slanderous light, well then, that may be enough reason for one to cross
the line, however reluctantly. As for the name calling, Abinales had
demonstrated a glimpse of the crudeness of his own language with his
final paragraph, and indeed his final sentence ("... siguro maliit ang
t*t* niya") which would give the right clues as to what language would
be appropriate for this bounder who was practically begging for it.
At any rate, with the exception of "asshole", (in retrospect, I really
should have said "jerk") I hope you noticed that much of the cussing was
very much rated "P.G." by Usenet standards. No obscene four letter words
here. Instead I dug up memories of years of Three Stooges reruns on
Ch.13 for inspiration. I did get to use "lunkhead" although I resisted
the temptation to use "knucklehead" and "numbskull". :) If you go
through the message again, you'll see it intentionally reads very much
like a parody of a Usenet flame. I suppose I was still pulling punches.
Hindi ako talaga sanay, e.
It was also extremely irritating to listen to Abinales cast a dubious
light on my opinions simply based on my employer (which he picked up
through my domain) and his preconceived notions of employees of that
organization, which just happen to be totally off the mark. Whatever
happened to "all standard disclaimers apply...all opinions are mine
alone and do not represent my employer, etc etc"?
And no, I don't take pleasure in newbie-bashing. I understand there's a
lot of bashing going around Usenet of newbies from commercial services
and from new university accounts. I always remember what my own newbie
days on SCF were like. In two weeks, I was savagely flamed by Mhike
Santos! This was quite traumatic at first, since I had just come from
the very moderated, very civilized FidoNet echoes and Compuserve forums,
where flames are verboten. Usenet by comparison is a savage jungle. But
after a while you get used to it. Everyone gets flamed eventually, even
Lea Salonga. :) Newbies could always benefit from more humane treatment.
However, Abinales got what he got by being a jerk, not a helpless newbie.
>> damo...@desire.wright.edu babbled mindlessly....
>Please spare her wife. damoroso is not equal to Abinales!
Well, I was referring to the account, not the person. The account
babbled mindlessly. :)
>> O-ver! First of all, what does access to an e-mail account have to do
>> with anything? E-mail here is available to every employee. Everyone from
>But then, your network is there primarily for ADB business, not for
>surfing the Net, just because you or the clerk have access to it. BTW,
Touche. Ok, all you people accessing SCF at work, the party's over now.
Still, I wouldn't call it a luxury befitting a high-flying lifetyle
as Abinales mentioned.
>does ADB allow its employees with accounts to use it for personal
>business, like surfing the Net, even during lunch time?
Actually, yes, we all do send quite a lot of personal mail during lunch
break. Using computers are not verboten during lunch. What is definitely
not allowed is playing DOOM over the network like what is done in other
offices. :)
>> Secondly, Abinales must have been hiding his miniscule brain under a
>> rock for the past year because he still thinks that Net access from the
>> R.P. involves expensive "phone/satellite lines" and that somehow I'm
>To you, it may not be expensive, but for many, it still is!
It may be, but check where I put the quote marks. "Phone/Satellite"
lines are expensive, but they don't have much to do with an individual
accessing the Net from here. It's a local call, and as you know local
PLDT calls are not yet metered. On a network, we just send e-mail
through our LAN normally or connect to a Internet gateway via tcp/ip. I
think Abinales had the idea I had to call the US long distance to plug
into the Net and was therefore wasting money. That's where that
ludicrous "Charge to ADB" line came from. But it's really none of his
business anyway.
>It's good for the DOST to extend this to ADB. But for the most of the
>organizations in the Philippines, this is still a dream.
A correction there, the contract does not involve DOST. It involves
PHnet, who approached various possible corporate clients in the hope of
obtaining income to subsidize the connection to the Universities after
DOST withdraws its subsidy of PHnet after the initial two-year period.
Net connectivity need not be a dream for Philippine organizations,
mostly what has to be done is to contact PHnet to discuss how they can
best connect. I would say, it's not really a question of affordability,
it's more of a lack of awareness of the Net itself and what are the
technical considerations for hooking up. A connection for a commercial
organization to PHnet would cost P7,000/month, which is about probably
less than what they pay PLDT for IDD charges. For non-profit groups and
NGOs, it goes down to P5,000, for academic orgs it goes down to
P3,000/month. For individuals, you have a choice of local commercial Net
providers or go with non-profit groups offering limited Net access.
>I thought ADB employees' salaries are tax-free.
Urban legend, Jon. I pay my income taxes.
>> here. I do quite a bit of work on the Net as well.
>Yes, but for reading and posting in SCF? This (system administration, etc.)
>does not justify your use of your ADB account for other than what you are
>expected to do with it.
We had an initial meeting on Internet policy here some time ago. The
question was, should the organization impose restrictions on Internet
e-mail usage by employees? That is, should we place a strict demarcation
line between "personal" and "official" mail? But how would we monitor
what is official and what is not except by actually monitoring the
content of e-mail? That idea proved to be distasteful and an invasion of
privacy. So we did away with that idea and in no way do we monitor the
"quality" of Internet e-mail. Apart from monitoring data volume that is.
Anyway, if you take a look at the domains in this newsgroup alone,
you'll see that majority of domains are from universities and
corporations all doing extremely "non-official" postings. Users of
commercial services are still in the minority. But if you want to tell
Sonny D. that he shouldn't be posting on SCF from his sun.com account,
or Humphrey A. that tandem.com wouldn't like what he says, you're free
to do that of course. :)
>> For the International access we each pay the princely sum of P600 a
>> YEAR, which we use as a pool for telecoms charges. Our goal is to spread
>Princely? Wait till you hear about how much they are charging in the U.S.,
or
>here in Taiwan!
"Princely" was satire, Jon. The P600/year donation is less than
$20/year, which is around the average monthly cost of a connection to a
provider in the U.S... Of course, the connection via FidoNet is limited
to e-mail.
>This is commendable, that is, trying to build virtual communities. But to
>say that you're going to use it for flaming Abinales, I'm not sure about that.
>I thought your aims are noble, but it seems it's not. You just want to use
>it for flaming people who goes against your ideals or opinions.
I could indeed do that, but I probably won't since as I said, I don't
autmatically flame people who just disagree with my opinions. On
occassion, I have sent posts that could fall under that category to
those that have sent personally insulting posts, as our good friend has
done. For the record, our local virtual communities don't follow the
Usenet model. They are almost always moderated, and public flames are
simply not allowed. A Prop 187 tempest like what we have here would
simply not do. Private e-mail of course, is another matter.
>> Now that we've demolished Abinales' ridiculous notion that Internet
>> access is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, I'd really like
>It still is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, at least, in the
>Philippines. What you're saying about reaching maybe to the grassroots level is
>still far away. Ridiculous notion? I'm afraid not.
Ok, let me modify that. "Lifestyles of the middle class and obscure." :)
You don't have to be Jaime Zobel de Ayala to own a PC and a modem to
hook up with a free-access BBS to send e-mail. Hobbyists have been doing
this for years. If you're resourceful you can pay a quarterly fee of
about P1,800 to some universities for network access that could include
full Internet access (well via a Unix shell account at least). There are
also commercial services, which though expensive by US standards, are
far cheaper than dialing up the USA via PLDT just to log in. What makes
it inaccessible for most is lack of knowledge about the Net, what are
the local options, and what it can do. So it's still a techie culture
here, though with all the publicity surrounding the info highway, a lot
of non-techies who have been been nosy enough to ask the right questions
are merrily surfing along.
As for the grassroots... there are NGO e-mail networks based on BBS
technologies. These organizations believe that e-mail networks can be
quite empowering for achieving their goals. So while it may be
surprising to see an old 386 and a modem set up in what looks like a run down
shack, it does happen, I can assure you (I have some friends in these NGOs.)
What prevents its spread is mainly lack of phone lines, but
as you know with the dismantling of telephone monopolies and the influx
of more telecoms players, this is slowly being remedied. Emphasis on
slowly, though . :(
>> fellow computer professionals here, we earn at industry-standard rates
>> for the MIS field. And as you know, one of the reason the Philippines is
>Come on! Your earning the same as the other poor guys in Makati? Probably
>not the same as the MIS staff, probably for MIS officers or VPs. 8)
Another urban legend, Jon. Personnel has compensation analysts who
compare salaries of technical support staff based on their counterparts
in local comparator organizations that particpate in local salary
surveys. So that while they may be in the upper bracket, they are never
the highest. MIS staff are compared to other MIS staff, not to
stockbrokers at Tektite Towers. :)
>Bawal dito ang babes and champagne during work, so I don't know this. 8)
It would not be a bad idea during the Christmas party though. :)
>I think Abinales was not talking literally about ADB being in Manila or what.
>Manila symbolizes much of the Philippines, and I think he meant that. ADB
>can symbolize the 1st World.
All the same, I'd thank Abinales to leave my employer out of the
discussion.
>Eto ka na naman. Abinales did not mention anything about high flying
>lifestyles, he mentioned only about the email access that we all have as
>"luxuries", which is
Correction. Actually Abinales *did* use the term "high flying
lifestyles." That's what annoyed me. I would associate that with a Robin
Leach TV show.
>Are we not Asians supporting your salaries?
In much the same way that all taxpayers help pay the foreign debt, I
don't expect to start poking my finger at some World Bank programmer in
Washington and say, "... and by the way buddy, *I* pay your salary! So
stop slacking off and get back to work". hoho!
>Eto ka na naman (to the tune of the APO Hiking Society whatever). BTW, I
>know some Ateneans who are aktibista, also. Were you not one of them?
The Apo line is EtoNaPoSila by the way. Eto Nanaman is by Gary V. <g> No
I wasn't an aktibista like Ed Jopson for one. I did know some people who
were though.
>> you know? Well if I take a trip there, I'll prepare first. I'm sure
>> I'll manage.
>hear the sufferings. And more. BTW, if you're going to Mindanao, don't stay
>at hotels, stay in the barrios, with some of the rural folk, near some rebel-
>infested area, and let's see if you can manage. 8)
Well we'll have to see. Neither one of us really knows. I enjoy roughing
it though. Let it not be said that all MIS people are wimps. (oops, on
the other hand...)
>> Think of all those student fees that subsidize your high-flying
>> lifestyle manifested in your wife's university Internet account! Pay
>> your way!!!!
>Calling names, again! Besides, we're not even sure if the wife is really
>a university staff. I think they're grad students.
Whatever. That was tongue-in-cheek by the way. He did say that my e-mail
account was a luxury that was proof of enjoying a high-flying lifestyle
so I thought it would be nice to turn the tables around on this guy.
>opinion, so let's respect each other's opinion and be civilized. I hate
>calling names because it is not only bad Netiquette, but bad etiquette,
>in general.
You're right of course. Name calling is not a good thing in general, no
matter how often it is practiced in Usenet. Good thing I only step out
of line once every 6 months under extra special circumstances. It was
bad enough I was steamed up because of that "high-flying ADB lifestyle"
crock, but I suppose reading his final paragraph about some people
having tiny penises would be the virtual equivalent of stubbing one's
toe and letting loose a stream of expletives. :) Ok. I will *never* call
anyone a "lunkhead" again. :)
>share/give my ideas to several groups on the Internet, and never in my
>years on the Net have I been told that I could not give advice to an
>oldtimer just because I'm a newbie.
Anyone can give advice, Jon. What ticked me off was his assumption that
he could tell me what I was all about on the basis of my domain name
alone. And that he would do so publicly naturally would undermine my own
credibility to state certain opinions. Read his post again and tell me
that I should not have reacted. That's what I took him task for. He's
free to give his own 25 centavos, and so am I. He could have replied, I
suppose. But maybe the embarassment of the "Pining Garcia" fiasco was a
little too much.
>> message that Pining Garcia, Marian Nebriaga, and Gorgeous are one and
>> the same. Hindi lang maliit ang titi, wala siyang titi!!! Oh, such
>> language. But Marian has more balls and brains than you'll ever have,
>> Abinales. For one thing, she would never write a message like yours on
>> her first foray into a newsgroup.
>Again, Mr. Ayson, eto ka na naman (hmm, hmm, hmm ... APO). He may be
>wrong on his assumption about "Pining Garcia", nevertheless to say that
>Marian has more balls and brains than Abinales just because he was being
>controversial (Inday Badiday, nasaan, ka?) on his inaugural posting was
No, actually I thought it was a clever play of words. He accused Marian
of having a tiny penis, when in fact she had none <g>, but I would say
that Marian had more balls than most. As to having more brains, I was
stating my observation in that he didn't do enough homework on Pining
Garcia's identity before hurling that flame of his own. That was *the*
controversial opinion I was referring to. It turned out to be quite a
hilarious one actually. :)
>just beyond my understanding. Are controversial opinions only for "old
>timers" like you or Marian or Joyce? When can I, being a newbie here,
>post such opinions. After 1 year, 2 years, or more? I think I'm doing it
>now, so do I get your flames now? BTW, you may send directly you flames
>to either of my two addresses: see below for details. If you want, you
>may call me long distance -- but no collect calls or reverse charges,
>please. 8)
No Jon, you can say anything you want whether you've been on-line for
six days or six years, as long as it doesn't involve tiny or
non-existent penises. :) Besides, with all those APO jokes, you appear
to be a congenial sort, and you haven't said anything so far deserving
one of my rare forays into flames. Maybe after I finish my lessons with
Rhett. :)
For the record, I don't subscribe to the idea of there being such a
thing as SCF "old timers" having more power and authority than most.
That is ridiculous, this notion of seniority... it smacks of a lot of
Usenet snobbishness. If it does exist, I don't agree with it. Why if
that were true Alan Horowitz would be a god, he's been here for some
time. <g> There was a discussion by Dean Velasco recently lamenting the
loss of some SCF old-timers and the declining quality of the postings
from more recent arrivals. I actually squirmed when I heard that one. My
own track record is I've been lurking here for a year. Not long. In many
respects I still consider *myself* a newbie to the Net. And I resent
being labelled an "old-timer"!! sheesh! :)
I think what some people are trying to say is the equivalent of saying
"I don't agree with your accusation of so-and-so. I have known this
person for some time, and I know his/her reputation." It's more of a
familiarity with some personalities over a period of time rather than
any "superiority" of anyone being here the longest.
>Aha, the "old timer" showing his weight around. Since I'm a newbie here,
>are you, Ayson, the duly elected spokesperson here? I'm asking you this
Why no, SCF is unmoderated. Seems to me though that this usually leads
to a lot of people scrambling after offensive posters on their own
anyway.
>because it seems that you're telling Abinales that he cannot be here on
>SCF unless he shapes up. And I thought SCF is our global virtual
Actually I was advising him that unless he took steps to remedy the
situation on his own, it would be difficult for some to forget his
initial posting and it would take some time as well to feel comfortable.
Shape up or ship out. As I said, I don't do newbie-bashing. Locally I
even moderate a forum for Internet newbies. But excuse me if I don't
exactly extend my hand to someone who just steps in and tells me off
immediately. I'd probably just step back and let him struggle on his own
as a result of his actions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* all opinions expressed are my own and have nothing to with my employer *
** ok? **
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.L.Hipolito
>fj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu says...
>>
>>point to piss me off. And some others as well. Masama talaga ang dating
>>niya. Worse than the B.O. of Gorgeous' beloved Frenchies. So FLAME ON.
>>No more mister nice guy. Abinales, this one's for you.
>
>are not acceptable then ignore it or if you want, flame him, as you did. But to
>call him an "asshole," "worse than B.O.," gago, turds, etc., you're breaking
And who gave P. Abinales the right to burst in here and call practically
everybody here oppurtunists because of where they live, single-out Jim
as a high-living, hypocritical freeloader because of where he works,
and abuse Marian as a male chauvinist pig, sex pervert, sexist, and
woman beater because of her alias? A guy who gives out opinions with
obviously no basis, and without doing his homework, and arrogantly to boot
deserves no respect.
And there is name-calling and there is name-calling. When used to
emphasize well-made points like Jim did, it is an effective rhetorical
device and it went very well with the indignant tone he was using. Without
them, the flame just wouldn't have the same effect (and wouldn't be as
hilarious). But since you have this aversion to name-calling, I will try
hard not to call you one in this follow-up.
...
>>damo...@desire.wright.edu babbled mindlessly....
>
>Please spare her wife. damoroso is not equal to Abinales!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I wonder what damoroso has to say about that. Oh sorry, I guess
you meant "is not the same person as." Well, we all know that already.
It was Abinales who dragged his wife into this, using her account
to give that thoughtless lecture. I have nothing against spouses
sharing accounts but I think that if a husband does, he should at least
be considerate enough to use it responsibly and carefully.
...
>>communications, and the network just happens to have a gateway to the
>>Internet as well. So a data entry clerk earning P5,000 a month can flame
>>Abinales and get a reply back from the turd about his high-flying
>>lifestyle.
>
>But then, your network is there primarily for ADB business, not for surfing
>the Net, just because you or the clerk have access to it. BTW, does ADB allow
>its employees with accounts to use it for personal business, like surfing the
>Net, even during lunch time?
You have something against calling names but you obviously have no
qualms about taking cheap shots. Excuse me, but have you ever wondered why
you sometimes see the Standard Disclaimer (tm) in people's .sigs? Is it
because employees, students, professors, staff, etc. routinely use their
accounts for surfing the Net? Of course, they sometimes use it for work
too, but that's beside the point.
...
>To you, it may not be expensive, but for many, it still is!
>
...
>>connection from this network to the Internet is done via PHnet,
>>originally intended to be an academic/research network. The initial
>>funding was provided by the Department of Science and Technology using
>
>It's good for the DOST to extend this to ADB. But for the most of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You really shouldn't say anything about stuff you know nothing about.
...
>>some of my tax pesos. To be self-sustaining, the network has signed up
>
>I thought ADB employees' salaries are tax-free.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ditto.
...
>>here. I do quite a bit of work on the Net as well.
>
>Yes, but for reading and posting in SCF? This (system administration, etc.)
>does not justify your use of your ADB account for other than what you are
>expected to do with it.
I see that you like to repeat cheap shots as well. If you really
want to push this point, why don't you post this message to all the
rec.* newsgroups in your .newsrc file: "Why are you guys reading
Usenet? Don't you have work to do on your computer? Get off your
butts and do what you are expected to do with it!"
>>[SNIPPED: Access to BBS with Internet connection, etc.]
>>Internet. I can flame you from there too. No, it's not completely free.
>>For the International access we each pay the princely sum of P600 a
>>YEAR, which we use as a pool for telecoms charges. Our goal is to spread
>
>Princely? Wait till you hear about how much they are charging in the U.S., or
>here in Taiwan!
Didn't they teach you "irony" in school? Here's a clue: Abinales
implied that Jim was enjoying "luxuries" which "includes access to
e-mail networks" and the princely sum of P600 a YEAR is certainly enough
for a king's ransom.
...
>>Bacolod and Davao might be coming aboard soon. If we can't all have
>>Information highways, maybe we can have some information eskinitas. So
>>in the future I can flame Abinales from a PC in Davao as well.
>
>This is commendable, that is, trying to build virtual communities. But to
>say that you're going to use it for flaming Abinales, I'm anot sure about
>that. I thought your aims are noble, but it seems it's not. You just want to
>use it for flaming people who goes against your ideals or opinions.
I see you missed your "tongue-in-cheek" lesson in school as well.
...
>>Now that we've demolished Abinales' ridiculous notion that Internet
>>access is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, I'd really like
>>to know what the hell is this high lifestyle Abinales talks about and
>>how can I get in? I'd like to play polo in Forbes and have a yacht
>>docked at the Manila Yacht club too.
>
>It still is part of the lifestyles of the rich and famous, at least, in the
>Philippines. What you're saying about reaching maybe to the grassroots level
>is still far away. Ridiculous notion? I'm afraid not.
Rich and famous!?! Having a measly XT, a 2400 baud modem, a phone
line, and P50 ($2) a month for a FidoNet link is being rich and famous?
Next time you'll claim the UP residential areas as the Forbes Park of
Diliman.
>>What I really want to do is give each of them from security guards,
>>salesgirls, to corporate execs, an e-mail account so that Abinales can
>>write to them about their high-flying lifestyles and they can mail-bomb
>>him right back. So he can learn to distinguish the individual's ideas
>>from the employer. No, Ortigas Center is not the Philippines, but it
>>doesn't pretend to be, either. It's a place to work, as far as I'm
>>concerned.
>
>Eto ka na naman. Abinales did not mention anything about high flying lifestyles, ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
Yes he did. Go read the article again or have your editor search the
words I marked in it.
...
>>>Mr. Ayson can wax high-and-mighty that he is "serving" the
>>>Inang Bayan; pero I doubt if he really knows his "Inang Bayan".
>>>Can he survive Mindanao? I doubt it.
>>
...
>>As for Mindanao, I wouldn't know, I've never been there, so how would
>>you know? Well if I take a trip there, I'll prepare first. I'm sure
>>I'll manage.
>
>Are you sure? I'm from Mindanao and I'll never forget the horrors that I
>hear of people getting killed. Or going without electricity for days. Or
>hear the sufferings. And more. BTW, if you're going to Mindanao, don't stay
>at hotels, stay in the barrios, with some of the rural folk, near some rebel-
>infested area, and let's see if you can manage. 8)
I see you're not averse to copying other people's cheap shots as well.
>BTW, I have a feeling I know Abinales. And it is not because of this
>that I "sound" like defending him. It's just that I want to be fair.
>He gave his opinion, so let's respect it. You, she, they, I gave your/her/
>their/my opinion, so let's respect each other's opinion and be civilized. I
>hate calling names because it is not only bad Netiquette, but bad etiquette,
>in general.
>
>Likewise, to say (not you Mr. Ayson) that newbies on SCF cannot pass judgments
>on SCF old-timers is being "oh-so-almighty" (from Joyce T. <joy...@netcom.com
>). I
Can you read this last statement of yours again to see if it makes any
sense? Anyway, you attributed something to Joyce that you didn't quote
but certainly misrepresented, which was
"You (P. Abinales) obviously haven't done your homework and
along the lines of netiquette, which you so flippantly ignored,
waxed your oh-so-almighty judgments on scf "old-timers" you don't
even know."
You seem to be saying that Joyce was implying that "old-timers" should
be untouchable in SCF but there just was nothing like that in her message.
>consider myself a newbie here on SCF, and to talk about seniority here is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>beyond my understanding of the concept behind Internet (as I know it today)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Seems to be a lot of these things beyond your understanding. Seniority
is a fact of life, especially in Usenet. That's why there are terms like
"newbies" and "net-gods." Get used to it. If you want to be a maverick
upstart, you have to do better than this.
>or SCF for that matter. I share/give my ideas to several groups on the
>Internet, and never in my years on the Net have I been told that I could not
>give advice to an oldtimer just because I'm a newbie.
So who in SCF said a newbie can't give oldtimers advice?
...
>>language. But Marian has more balls and brains than you'll ever have,
>>Abinales. For one thing, she would never write a message like yours on
>>her first foray into a newsgroup.
>
>Again, Mr. Ayson, eto ka na naman (hmm, hmm, hmm ... APO). He may be wrong
>on his assumption about "Pining Garcia", nevertheless to say that Marian has
>more balls and brains than Abinales just because he was being controversial
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He was not just being controversial, he was being offensive.
>(Inday Badiday, nasaan, ka?) on his inaugural posting was just beyond my
>understanding. Are controversial opinions only for "old timers" like you or
>Marian or Joyce? When can I, being a newbie here, post such opinions. After
You can make a fool of yourself like he did and call yourself
controversial anytime you like.
>1 year, 2 years, or more? I think I'm doing it now, so do I get your flames
Well you asked for it. Note that I deleted some of what you wrote
not just for brevity but also because for most of them, only one
word comes up as an appropriate reply and I promised not to call names.
I could have called you CLUELESS lots of times but I didn't, so be
grateful for that.
...
>>barakada, and though ti is not an exclusive one, Abinales, you have a lot of
>>work ahead of you to make up for that obnoxious first impression you made on
>>your trial post to SCF before you can ever feel comfortable or at home here.
>>So either shape up, Abinales, or get the hell out.
>
>Aha, the "old timer" showing his weight around. Since I'm a newbie here, are
>you, Ayson, the duly elected spokesperson here? I'm asking you this because it
>seems that you're telling Abinales that he cannot be here on SCF unless he
>shapes up. And I thought SCF is our global virtual barkada. Barkadas are
>supposed to help each other. Why don't we instead guide him about the
>so-called Netiquette or the ins-and-outs of SCF, instead of threatening him
>outright.
Those who knock on the door and say "Tao po?" are very much welcome.
Those who barge in, put their feet up the table, grab the remote, yell for
beer, and insult the host deserve to be told to shape up or get out (and
more besides).
>
>O, baka kaya ganito ang reaksyon natin dahil may natamaan sa sinabi nya
>tungkol sa pagiging oportunista natin. Ako, oportunista? Maaari.
Calling yourself names I see. Is this in self-deprecation or
self-importance? Well here's the dictionary meaning of the label
you're pinning yourself with:
op*ppor*tun*ist, (noun) one who takes advantage of any
opportunity to achieve an end, OFTEN WITH NO REGARD FOR
PRINCIPLES OR CONSEQUENCES (underscoring supplied).
From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English
Language (3ed; CompuServe online version).
For other people here, being called "walang prinsipyo" is a serious
matter. Not for you it seems.
-Alex (an old-timer who often just lurks unless provoked by clueless newbies)
--
a.l.hi...@math.tudelft.nl Tel: (+31-15) 78 25 47
Standard Net disclaimer: views here are my own, not my Internet provider's.
Benito Vergara
Abinales (though he and his wife are good friends of mine): his posting was
deliberately provocative, and quite out of line, especially for a newbie.
But flaming clueless newbies is similarly reprehensible, don't you think?
Granted, those of you who were personally singled out certainly had the
right to flame him, but... At least people met him head-on, instead of
conducting some silly stealth campaign like the one against Alan Horowitz (
at least the Tagalog parts, anyway).
But Abinales does have a point, okay? I'm not saying I'm an opportunist, but
I do feel equally guilty. And I'm not saying that everyone else should feel
guilty too, but think about it. Anyway, Abinales and I can wallow in our
guilt trip, and no, you don't have to wade in with us.
Oh, yeah, a message for Marian N.: I understand perfectly why you were
offended, but why can't you grant him the right to be offended too? I mean,
let's face it, "Pining Garcia" is rather tasteless, no? If I posted
messages under the name "Mike Hunt," for instance, I'd be very quickly
booted off. And it has nothing to do with prudery, either; it's just being
tasteless. But no, I'm not asking you to change your name; how could I?
Sunny
bv...@cornell.edu
alba_humphrey
>What really pissed me off with what he said was his premise, that all
>filipinos in the US are opportunists. Well there may be some, there is
>at least one - a certain P Abinales who is a self proclaimed oportunista.
not all filipinos. all daw, e, all.
>a. Tama na nga kayo. Sa mga nandito, aminin nating lahat, mga oportunista tayo.
hey, hindi ako. wala akong nakuhang pera na galing sa
gobyerno ng pilipinas.
>This applies lalong lalo na sa mga taga-UP (to be more precise yong mga taga-
>PGH). Nakamura na nga tayo ng edukasyon (subsidized yong UP ng taxes ng mga
>Pinoy, or to be more precise, yong mga middle at lower class Pinoys dahil
>as economists would point out, regressive at highly anti-poor yong tax system
>natin) dahil nasa UP tayo (top school of the nation, kuno; I doubt it today).
>Mahusay yong diploma at - aminin na natin - ginamit natin heto para makapasok
>sa American market. Yong ibinayad ng mga med students sa PGH wala sa katiting
>ng tunay na cost ng edukasyon. Nandito karamihan sa kanila dahil nandito ang
>pera. Yong nasyonalismo at "pag-ibig sa inang bayan," panakip-butas na lang
>yan sa simpleng oportunismo.
hindi ako sa U.P.
kaya hindi gobyerno ang nag-paaral sa akin. ang nag-bigay sa akin
ng scholarship when i was still studying ay yong escuelahan
ko, saint louis university. walang nag-paaral sa akin sa abroad.
ako'y nagkayod. at marami dito sa america ang nag-kakayod.
hindi po uso ang idealism dito. ang importante ay kung paano
mabuhay ng tama. alam ng lahat na mayroong mabait at masamang
filipino kahit saan.
>Kung hindi ka ba naman isang malaking tanga. Hindi mo ba alam na karamihan
>sa tumutulong magpaunlad sa Pilipinas ay nag-aral sa ibang bansa?!! Ilan sa
>mga PhD sa UP ang nagaral sa Estados Unidos. Bibigyan kita ng halimbawa ha
>Sa UP-NIGS (Nat'l Inst. of Geol. Sci.)
karamihan. salamat. pero hindi lahat. mayroong din nangungurakot
ng pera, at dapat ikulong ang mga iyan.
>The sooner we admit this, I think the less the "debate" over who can contribute
>or who contributes better to Philippines 2000 will be steered along more
>fruitful lines
those who are good/honest and able whether in the phil. or abroad.
whether fil citizen or not. those who are corrupt ay hindi nakakatulong
at sana maging pobre lalo sila kasama ang mga kamag-anak.
at sana ang mga anak ng masasamang politician ay hindi na
sumali sa politiko, para mabago naman ang bansa.
>b. But this does not only apply to Pinoys in Amerika. J. Ayson can indeed be
>critical of people here, but he also should be aware as to where he is. Yong
>Manila, hindi Pilipinas; yong Asian Development Bank, hindi Divisoria. Hindi
>lahat makapasok at makapag-enjoy sa luxuries na ini-enjoy ni Mr. Ayson (which
>I suspect includes access to e-mail networks, no? Dahil hindi naman siguro
>makabayad si Mr. Ayson, or for that matter si R. Feria mula sa kanilang bulsa
>sa cost of phone/satellite lines, etc. Charge sa ADB siguro? Which in turn
>charge sa mga hampas-lupang Asyano na pinilit ng kanilang mga gobyerno na
>mag-bayad ng buwis, parte nito papunta sa pag-subsidize ng high lifestyle ng
>mga taga-ADB na kagaya ni Mr. Ayson. Yong perch ni Mr. Ayson, hindi talagang
>perch yon, dahil parang 1st world island yang ADB HQ sa slum that is Manila;
>at saka yong Manila, malaking parasite na naka-kontrol sa ibang parte ng
>Pilipinas. Mr. Ayson can wax high-and-mighty that he is "serving" the
>Inang Bayan; pero I doubt if he really knows his "Inang Bayan". Can he survive
>Mindanao? I doubt it.
good said. but i don't think you need to mention mr. ayson or feria's
name.
>>So, tama na yang daldal ng daldal about sino ang tama. Tama na rin itong
>>guilt-trip at pakosensyahan. Lahat tayo - let me reiterate - may mga skeletons
>>sa closet. Lahat tayo mga oportunista.
>Ikaw siguro.
opportunista. is that good or bad. if you have a good opportunity
to succeed without hurting other people, go for it.
if you'll do anything just to succeed at walang pakialam kung
sino ang masaktan, i say that's bad.
Unknown
Vergara) wrote:
> Oh, yeah, a message for Marian N.: I understand perfectly why you were
> offended, but why can't you grant him the right to be offended too? I mean,
> let's face it, "Pining Garcia" is rather tasteless, no?
You find it tasteless, I find it "pilya." Does that make you right?
That's a difference of opinions there, so it depends on who's looking at
it. For the most part, I know that a lot of SCFers were amused by it -
they told me so!
> If I posted
> messages under the name "Mike Hunt," for instance, I'd be very quickly
> booted off. And it has nothing to do with prudery, either; it's just being
> tasteless. But no, I'm not asking you to change your name; how could I?
>
You're exaggerating! Get real! I never got flamed for it until Abinales
waltzed in here, supported by Nunez & yourself and neither was Ping
Guerrero, so why should you be if you chose Mike Hunt? Fortunately, this
group just let us be. Live & let live. People in this group have learned
to know who I am and have learned to accept me for who I am, not for one of
the aliases that I use. Kanya kanyang trip lang yan. Again if you find it
tasteless, that's your problem, Sunny!
Virgilio Dean B. Velasco Jr.
SCF for a while and peek at some articles. This one I just
had to react to.
In article <9410147848....@mail.asiandevbank.org> James_R...@mail.asiandevbank.org writes:
>
>For the record, I don't subscribe to the idea of there being such a
>thing as SCF "old timers" having more power and authority than most.
>That is ridiculous, this notion of seniority... it smacks of a lot of
>Usenet snobbishness. If it does exist, I don't agree with it. Why if
>that were true Alan Horowitz would be a god, he's been here for some
>time. <g> There was a discussion by Dean Velasco recently lamenting the
>loss of some SCF old-timers and the declining quality of the postings
>from more recent arrivals. I actually squirmed when I heard that one. My
>own track record is I've been lurking here for a year. Not long.
Jim is, of course, encapsulating my remark -- not an unfair act by
any means. As a result though, I think a little exposition is in
order, since some are bound to misconstrue the sentiments therein.
I heartily agree that old-timers do NOT have more power and authority.
We all start out as newbies, although some handle themselves better
than others (the notorious Lea S. being one example). I only lamented
the loss of certain old-timers because of their consistently valuable
contributions, not because they had seniority.
I did lament the declining quality of posts from relative newbies. That,
however, referred mostly to their crudeness and lack of respect. (The
post from Abinales, the one to whom Jim responded, is one such example.)
There was just no denying that the quality of SCF traffic in this sense
had gone down dramatically.
Fortunately, not all the newbies are like that. Jim Ayson has just
confessed to being a relative newbie, and his contributions are always
valuable -- even in his caustic reply to Abinales' dangerous and false
accusations, and his rebuttal of Mr. Nun~ez' reply.
Jim, you may call yourself a newbie, but you certainly don't act like
one. :-) I doubt that you misconstrued my sentiments when I lamented
the quality of postings from *certain* new SCFers (not all, and probably
not even most). Still, I want to emphasize that there was no need for
you to squirm. Your net-conduct has been beyond reproach.
--
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng'g and Applied Physics
graduate student slave, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabe
Beam me up, Scotty. |I practice the safest form of sex| Why did the chicken
It ate my phaser. | known. It's called abstinence. | cross the Mobius strip?
Butch Bandong
: Furthermore, though the tone was mean, it was posted from a deep truth.
This is the kind of truth that hurts the most. The one that goes
deep into the essence of being. Abinales assertion is really nothing
new. It has been studied for thousands of years, from Plato, to St.
Augustine, to Shakespeare, and now to P. Abinales in scf. The question
is: what is the basic nature of man? Are we good, or are we bad to begin
with? Is conscience inborn or is it learned?
P. Abinales was, to be sure, ill-advised in citing his nearest experience
as example for his declaration and naming names to boot. He called it
opportunism. He called it perverted. Loaded terms with different
meanings to different people. But he called it. In the context of the
discussion, it was core, dead center.
He could have termed it self-interest, and there might have been two or
three less flames. He put up a lightning rod of an article; due perhaps
to more than just the obvious reason, another one being a lot of pent-up
energy.
My teacher's answer to the question of man's nature was: No one knows
for sure. But what counts is that one tries to distinguish between good
and bad, and lives a life that tries to do the better. That is the true
nature of the beast.
Erap's parting words were something to the effect that it was as if he
felt the amihan, a warm and gentle Philippine breeze after reading in
scf. I wonder what he would feel after what we've done to P. Abinales.
Butch Bandong
C.E. Gardner
> In article <3a5h20$h...@aladdin.iii.org.tw>, jan...@tpts1.seed.net.tw (Jon
> A. Nunez) wrote:
> >
> > I am not defending him. If it sounds like I am defending it's not because
> > I know him but because I believe in each individual's right to voice his
> > opinion. It could be you making that posting and me flaming you to
high heavens.
> > I could not find any offensive remarks in his main postings (points a
& b). The
>
> You claim you don't see anything wrong with his post. For the umpteenth
> time, let me repeat: that is your prerogative; a good number of us saw the
> offensiveness in his post - that's our prerogative too! HE decided to
> leave this group & said his good bye. Where does that leave you now - his
> cheap shots left you here to face the consequences!!! Some friend he is,
> huh?
>
Let the idiots of the world go their way in peace.
I usually bid them goodbye with the homily, "Peace on you."
;-)
+=========================+========================+================+
: Charles E. Gardner : Like a lampost, the Internet provides :
: American Embassy - RSC : both support and illumination. Support :
: APO AP 96440 : and enlighten me and I'll do my best to:
: Fax: 00-632-833-5747 : pass the knowledge on to others. :
+==================================================================+
: cgar...@mozcom.com (if it bounces send to: cgar...@admu.edu.ph) :
: WWW Home Page: http://www.mozcom.com/user/ceg/home.html :
: Soc.Culture.Filipino: http://www.mozcom.com/SCF/SCF.html :
+===================================================================+
Unknown
>
> Well, I'll try to keep this short. I won't try to completely defend Jojo
Yeah, another friend defending him - how predictable. How can you deny
defending him when you attacked my alias on his account? (See your tactless
message below.)
> Oh, yeah, a message for Marian N.: I understand perfectly why you were
> offended, but why can't you grant him the right to be offended too?
Why should he be? He PERSONALLY attacked me - I didn't. My usage of
Pining Garcia is not a PERSONAL attack on him but he chose to be offended
by it. I have no control over the kind of mentality that he (including you
and Nunez) have. Move over, Righteous Brothers!! :D :D :D
>
> I mean, let's face it, "Pining Garcia" is rather tasteless, no?
Tasteless???? Oh yeah, BENITO, and your name is classy and full of
pizzazz? Pining Garcia is only my alias - I don't have to live with it for
the rest of my life. Hyuk! yuk! yuk! yuk! ROTFL! So before you pass on
judgments about my alias, take a look at your own first, BENITO!!! ha! ha!
ha! ha! ha!
> If I posted
> messages under the name "Mike Hunt," for instance, I'd be very quickly
> booted off. And it has nothing to do with prudery, either; it's just being
> tasteless. But no, I'm not asking you to change your name; how could I?
You can't even be honest about your feelings! Don't put on this front at
my expense that you're chaste because you've enjoyed green jokes posted
here in the past. You've sent me private message to this effect, so don't
even bother denying it.
(Please play Didith Reyes' song in the background: "Sino ang Baliw?" :D
)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A.K.A. Gorgeous
Sana manahimik na yung mga ........ ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fmat...@altair.selu.edu
Well! well, well... Ano ba naman 'yan, Pining! Napakasosyal mo
talaga. Aba'y pati pangalan mo eh, pinagkakaguluhan. Inggit siguro
ang iba dahil wala silang guts na kumuha ng pangalang katulad ng
sa 'yo. What's in a name, anyway? Mike Hunt, Mhike Kant, Mei Kent.
Naaalala ko tuloy ang isa kong kaibigan -- o baka naman sa pelikula
ko napanood ito (sorry, tumatanda na kasi ako kaya nagiging ulyanin
na!) -- eh tipong banal na banal s'ya. 'Yong isa naman naming
kaibigan, tipong bulgar na bulgar. Tinuturuan ni Bulgar si Banal
na magmura -- para naman malabanan ni Banal ang mga demonyong
nasa paligid n'ya; at ng ang mga mata n'ya'y mamulat sa katotohanan.
"Ulit-ulitin mo," 'ika ni Bulgar kay Banal, "Putang-ina! Putang-ina!
Putang-ina!" My point is this: bakit nagiging tasteless ang isang
bagay? Sino ka namang nagdikta ng "taste"? Ano 'yan, may "taste
meter" -- oops! that one landed on the wrong side of the scale...
Ang problema mo lang siguro ay hindi ka na-expose sa mga ganitong
sitwasyon. Kaya sinuka man, ulit-ulitin mo sa sarili:
"Pining Garcia! Pining Garcia! Gorgeous!"
Labs gid (para kay Pining o Fanny),
--Dennis--
Eric A. Gutierrez
alba_humphrey <al...@tower.tandem.com> wrote:
>
>wow, flaming. serious flaming. wow.
I like that part with the Pining Garcia lines... :)
--
Eric A. Gutierrez
SVIC Manila