Tagalog vs Filipino
James A. Houchens
>I know this came up at one time or another, but can someone tell
>me if there is a difference between the two. I always thought that
>speaking tagalog was the same as speaking filipino? Someone
>asked me this recently, and his questioning me made me unsure.
Technically, Filipino (was: Pilipino) is a synthetic language (Phils.'
version of esperanto) which is based on Tagalog, but simplifies the
grammar and borrows words from many dialects. I believe an official,
government endorsed dictionary exists which specifies the language in
the same way computer languages are specified. In practice, however,
Tagalog is used.
BTW, in Negros (in the mid-80's at least) many people were against the
idea of mandating Pilipino nationwide, because it was perceived as
imposing Manila's culture on the provences. I think people prefered
the idea of using English as the official language over Pilipino,
although there Tagalog skills were clearly better than there English
skills.
-- Jim
Ken Ilio
>In article <10...@spim.mips.COM> ai...@mips.com (Aimee Manosa) writes:
>>
>
>They were attempting to replace English which was then the official language.
>Unfortunately, Tagalog was not as "rich." In creating Filipino, they began
>coining such words as "salungpuwit" (literally ass-catcher; translated as
>chair; do any of you remember other amusing words?). Note that they could
>have easily used the Spanish form "silla" but they wanted a 100% Filipino
>language with no colonial influence whatsoever (our Malay forbears had no
>concept of chairs as they just squat on the ground to sit, eat, and sh*t).
Aha!
We did in fact some time or another list some of those coined words
in our Filipino list of slang words (December-January).
Here are some of those 'amusing' words they have coined:
gamutab - molecule
salipawpaw - airplane
hapag-kainan - table
salumbola - (from salong bola) - jockey shorts (literally, ball catcher)
a better word I think is salungganisa (longanisa catcher)
BTW, silya (from the Spanish cilla (?) is an accepted Filipino word ...
To illustrate Louie's points regarding heavy vs. non-heavy words (Tagalog
vs. Filipino), here are several examples:
problem: problema vs suliranin
feelings: feeling vs damdamin
but: pero (from Spanish) vs. datapwa't, subalit, ngunit, and
their ilk
Also, when Filipinos (especially Tagalogs) try to express what they feel
they express them in heavy Tagalog but in general conversations, they
talk in Filipino.
That is all ....
Aimee Manosa
I know this came up at one time or another, but can someone tell
me if there is a difference between the two. I always thought that
speaking tagalog was the same as speaking filipino? Someone
asked me this recently, and his questioning me made me unsure.
This is embarassing, but I need to know.
Aimee
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Opinions are my own...
Luis Ramos
>me if there is a difference between the two. I always thought that
>speaking tagalog was the same as speaking filipino? Someone
>asked me this recently, and his questioning me made me unsure.
I have always wondered about this too. I hope my memory serves me right.
Sometime in the early 50s/60s, the Philippine government decided to
have a national language (called Filipino). At that time, there was no
language commonly spoken throughout the archipelago (except maybe for English
since it was required in all schools!). Their strategy then was to take one
major dialect (e.g., Ilocano, Kapangpangan, Tagalog, Waray, Ilongo, Cebuano,
etc.) and *augment* it with words rather than taking words from each dialect
in "equal" proportions. Of course they chose Tagalog (despite the fact that
there were more people who spoke Cebuano and that it was spoken over a larger
area-parts of Visayas and Northern Mindanao).
They were attempting to replace English which was then the official language.
Unfortunately, Tagalog was not as "rich." In creating Filipino, they began
coining such words as "salungpuwit" (literally ass-catcher; translated as
chair; do any of you remember other amusing words?). Note that they could
have easily used the Spanish form "silla" but they wanted a 100% Filipino
language with no colonial influence whatsoever (our Malay forbears had no
concept of chairs as they just squat on the ground to sit, eat, and sh*t).
You could imagine how receptive the general population was with regards to
these coined words. It became a joke. Nothing else came out of it so right
now, Filipino is effectively Tagalog. For those of you who studied this
language in grade school and high school (until the time that I graduated in
college, Filipino was not a required course!! but English was) it was called
Filipino (rather than Tagalog) but how else different is it from Tagalog?
The government recognizes Filipino as the national language but English is
still the preferred language in its day to day communications. This is
because we were trained in schools where English was the medium of instruction
and most importantly because society dictates that the usage of English
emotes a reputation of being educated (What newspaper do you prefer to
read--Times Journal/Bulletin or Taliba?). "Self image" has always been a
priority among Filipinos (is that why we buy so much shoes?)
As years passed, the Filipino language began taking an identity on its own
(an interesting concept since they are really one in the same). In a typical
conversation, participants can usually distinguish between Filipino and
Tagalog. If really "heavy" words are used in the conversation (I can't even
think of an example, Benjoe help me), it is more suitably labeled Tagalog. On
the other hand, if "non-heavy" words are used, it is Filipino.
Aimee, I hope this helped.
Louie
Luis Ramos
English sentences having direct Tagalog translations. Does anyone know
of Tagalog sentences that don't have direct English translations? Here is
one example:
"Ika-ilang Presidente ng bansang Pilipinas si Presidente Corazon
Aquino?"
How do you translate this to English?
Louie
Richard Sucgang
derived words in Filipino you know? Some of these words are extremely
amusing because of the forced derivation, and the reflection of the
Catholic puritanicism that seems to pervade a lot of everyday
life.
Here are my contributions, from the attempts of UP to convert
the science curricula to Filipino:
Chemistry - Kapnayan : 'sangkap hanayan'-ingredient study
Biology - Haynatan : 'buhay hanayan' - life study
Cell - Sidhay : 'silid (ng) buhay' -room (of) life
Richard Sucgang
geometry - munsukat : 'mundo sukat' - measure world (wow, taking
from the greek!)
semen - 'katas ama': literally, juice or sap of the father
agham - science. i am unsure of the derivation. anybody know?
does "Subukang takbo ng programa" compute to anyone?
benjoe juliano
>
> If really "heavy" words are used in the conversation (I can't even
> think of an example, Benjoe help me), it is more suitably labeled Tagalog.
> On the other hand, if "non-heavy" words are used, it is Filipino.
>
Pareng Luis! Susubukan kong makatulong sa pagdulot ng mga halimbawa ng mga,
ika nga, mabibigat na salitang Tagalog at ang kanilang katumbas na salitang
Filipino. Kaunting dagdag lamang ito sa mga binigay ni Pareng Ken ...
Ipagpaumanhin mo lamang ang aking Lagunenseng (taga-Laguna) Tagalog; baka
may Batanggenyo sa "netnews" na higit na makatutulong sa iyo?
[Translation: My friend, Louie! I will try to help out by giving you some
examples of, as you call them, "heavy" Tagalog words and their equivalent
"non-heavy" Filipino words. I will merely add a few more to what Ken has
listed ... Pardon my Tagalog as spoken in Laguna; perhaps there someone
in the network from Batanggas may be of better help?]
In article <1991Mar16.2...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kyig...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Ilio) writes:
>
> Here are some of those 'amusing' words they have coined:
>
> gamutab - molecule
> salipawpaw - airplane
> hapag-kainan - table
> salumbola - (from salong bola) - jockey shorts (literally, ball catcher)
> a better word I think is salungganisa (longanisa catcher)
>
I don't know if "salumdyoga" (from salong dyoga) is the female counterpart of
the "salo" (catch/hold) series --- "amusing" word for brassiere.
>
> problem: problema vs suliranin
> feelings: feeling vs damdamin
> but: pero (from Spanish) vs. datapwa't, subalit, ngunit, and
> their ilk
>
>
>Also, when Filipinos (especially Tagalogs) try to express what they feel
>they express them in heavy Tagalog but in general conversations, they
>talk in Filipino.
>
Some examples: A B
1) heat: init vs banas
2) cold: lamig vs ginaw
3) nervous: nerbyos vs kaba
Words (1) and (2) illustrate the difference Ken pointed out. For example,
those in column A express a feeling of touch as opposed to a general feeling
(not just touch) expressed by the corresponding words in column B:
"Mainit ang bata"
for "The child is hot" or "The child has a high temperature"
"Masarap ang mainit na kape"
for "A cup of hot coffee is good"
"Ang banas!"
for "It's hot" or "I feel hot/humid" (also slang for developing
a temper when someone gets annoying)
"Giniginaw ka ba?"
for "Are you (feeling) cold?".
The third word is an example of a "Taglified" English word, commonly used
in everyday conversation. Of course, the correct Filipino form is that in
column B (remember "Kakabakaba ka ba?" --- Reminds me of a "crude" conver-
sation between two Pinoys in an elevator; see below ...).
Sad to say that everyday conversation doesn't necessarily mean Tagalog ...
it has become more of "Taglish" or "Engalog" (slang for Tagalog-English
mixes). I guess this is because some Tagalog words are just plain diffi-
cult either to pronounce or they are too long. For example, when inviting
people for a group picture, would you say "Magkuhanan tayo ng litrato" or
"KODAK-an tayo!" (8= Pinoys are "kalog", too!
As for the "crude" conversation that shocked the third (American) person
in an elevator:
Pinoy 1: "Bababa ba?" (Going down?)
Pinoy 2: "Bababa ..." (Going down ...)
D'Onaks: (Cavemen, huh?)
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% BENJOE A. JULIANO / jul...@nu.cs.fsu.edu %
% Department of Computer Science /_ _ ` _ _ (904) 644-2296 %
% The Florida State University / ) /__) /- ) / / ) /__) f a x 644-0058 %
% Tallahassee, FL 32306-4019 /__/ (__. / / / (__/ (__. machine 575-7331 %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% .__/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
benjoe juliano
A Pinoy friend of mine and I got a kick out of translating Sharon Cuneta's
song, "Tubig at Langis" (Water and Oil) while running! We were at it for
a while during our routines, laughing like crazy ... it's a fun way to run!
No, we're not Sharon fans )8= ... just having fun!
Aimee Manosa
Thanks for the response to the original question and an even greater
"thank you" for the responses from Ken and Benjoe.
I went through the day laughing with the elevator conversation and
the "salung---" in my mind constantly. This is quite hilarious!!!
salung-dyoga?!? salung-bola!?! I was never taught this at school.
Must not have been part of the nun language.
Are there anymore of these...?
Thanks again!
Aimee Manosa
|
|> "Ika-ilang Presidente ng bansang Pilipinas si Presidente Corazon
|> Aquino?"
An attempt:
What numbered president of the Philippines is Corazon Aquino?
Naks!!!
Aimee
Manuel A. Lopez
In one of my moments of complete boredom, I was watching a match-and-date
type telly program (several months ago). To determine the compatibility
of the contestants, the presentor had to ask some familiar (familial) questions
to each. One of the questions went along Louie's question. If I remember it
correctly now, the question asked was
What is Ian's number in the family?
I just wouldn't know whether this goes for the entire UK or whether it is
just a flavor present in Glasgow.
Being a renegade mathematician, I usually have two translations to the
question.
1. Cory Aquino is the nth president. Find n.
Yes, a wee bit dodgy and bit too pragmatic. So, I would readily come back
with a second translation.
2. What is the ordinal of Cory as the president of the Philippines?
I suppose that there are better translations ...
... Lito
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Manuel A Lopez Department of Computer Science
man...@uk.ac.strath.cs (JANET) University of Strathclyde
manuel%cs.stra...@nsf.ac.uk Glasgow, United Kingdom
(INTERNET) (041) 552 4400 (x2952)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Manuel A Lopez Department of Computer Science
man...@uk.ac.strath.cs (JANET) University of Strathclyde
manuel%cs.stra...@nsf.ac.uk Glasgow, United Kingdom
(INTERNET) (041) 552 4400 (x2952)
Ken Ilio
In an article whatever number it was, Benjoe Juliano writes:>
>Sad to say that everyday conversation doesn't necessarily mean Tagalog ...
>it has become more of "Taglish" or "Engalog" (slang for Tagalog-English
>mixes). I guess this is because some Tagalog words are just plain diffi-
>cult either to pronounce or they are too long. For example, when inviting
>people for a group picture, would you say "Magkuhanan tayo ng litrato" or
>"KODAK-an tayo!" (8= Pinoys are "kalog", too!
>
a picture as in kodakan is an acceptable word. Other American brandnames
which have crept up into Filipino language including Kodak:
Frigidaire (or pridyidir) - to mean refrigerator, ice box
Colgate - to mean toothpaste
Gillette - to mean razor blade
Coleman, or Petromax (depending on which region you come from,
Coleman - pronounced as Ku-lee-man if you are from the north,
and Petromax if you're from the Visayas) - to mean storm lamp
Coke - to mean any cola drink
Endrin - to mean any kind of pesticide
Aladdin - to mean storm lamp
Jeep (dyip) - you know what this means, don't you?
Briggs and Stratton - sometimes to mean motor for motor boat
And who says that English as was introduced by Americans did not advertize
American products?
One more word which crept up into our language which was derived from
an English expression: Arya as in arya na ... a corruption of Hurry up ...
Hurryup ... Aryap .. Arya! :-)
Ken I.
Rey Paulo
>English sentences having direct Tagalog translations. Does anyone know
Yes, indeed. Consider the meaning of the following sentence if directly
translated to Tagalog.
"All frozen assets must be withdrawn."
There appears to be a shift in meaning in the translation.
--
Rey V. Paulo | "I am Iraq, I am an island
r...@csc.canberra.edu.au | And Iraq feels no pain, and an island never cries."
AUSTRALIA | - P. Simon & A. Garfunkel
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
benjoe juliano
You're much welcome, Aimee! Weird things tend to happen (as in clog the
mind --- at least in my case) when one craves for a temporary escape from
work, huh? It really is fun recalling all these "kalokohan"s, moreso in
sharing it with my kababayans ...
Anyway, an additional "salo" word a friend of mine coined is "salong-
poopoo" for diaper! At that time, she was telling me how thankful she
was for the disposable diapers --- most of us were subject to the "lampen"
which is no comparison to the "salo" characteristics of the disposables;
not to mention the "labada blues" ...
`Just thought I'd add that to the one I e-mailed you earlier ... I hope
you enjoyed that one, too!
benjoe juliano
In article <1991Mar19.0...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kyig...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Ilio) writes:
>>
>In an article whatever number it was, Benjoe Juliano writes:>
>> For example, when inviting
>> people for a group picture, would you say "Magkuhanan tayo ng litrato" or
>> "KODAK-an tayo!" (8= Pinoys are "kalog", too!
>>
>
>
>And who says that English as was introduced by Americans did not advertize
>American products?
>
>One more word which crept up into our language which was derived from
>an English expression: Arya as in arya na ... a corruption of Hurry up ...
>Hurryup ... Aryap .. Arya! :-)
>
What about our famous "bistik" derived from the English
phrase "beef steak"? I could go for that anytime ... !
Luis Ramos
> What about our famous "bistik" derived from the English
> phrase "beef steak"? I could go for that anytime ... !
Which reminds me, does anyone have a recipe for bistek?
Louie
(I just knew this thread on Tagalog vs Filipino will eventually end up
in food)
Roemer Alfelor
When I was in high school my Pilipino teacher told us that
the Tagalog word for bra is 'saluso' and he explained to us
why (I guess I need not explain it here). After the class
a classmate came to me and said: "Do you know what the
Tagalog word is for panty?........salungguhit" (I guess
I need not explain it here!).
Roemer Alfelor
CMU
cad...@csgrad.cs.vt.edu
Question: Filipino = Tagalog?
>I have always wondered about this too. I hope my memory serves me right.
>Sometime in the early 50s/60s, the Philippine government decided to
>have a national language (called Filipino).
I think it was the Commonwealth which called for the creation of
a national language. Clearly, though, the awakening of nationalism
in the 60's was a great impetus to be more serious with it.
During the commonwealth period, Tagalog became equated with the
national language. It is debatable whether equating Tagalog
with the natioanl language was by design or whether it just became that
way in practice. Be that as it may, the 1986 ConCon definitely steered
away from equating Tagalog with Filipino. Hence, I don't think it is right
to say that Tagalog is the same as Filipino. I think Filipino must be
thought of as a developing language which is open to the influences of all
the other dialects.
[ stuff deleted ]
- Bombim Cadiz
Ken Ilio
>> What about our famous "bistik" derived from the English
>> phrase "beef steak"? I could go for that anytime ... !
>
>Which reminds me, does anyone have a recipe for bistek?
>
>
>Louie
Here's a simple one - and it really is delicious (so says my roommate):
This is especially a quick way of cooking bistek for a lazyhead like me.
And cheap too, it really fits the budget of a grad student.
Ingredients
1 lb beef - any cut, although any loin cut is better, cut thin
1 medium sized onion
soy sauce
pepper
1 clove garlic
1 lemon
cooking oil
1. Slice beef into strips, or whatever bite size you want it to be.
Make sure that the meat is also cut thin (hindi makapal).
If you really want the beef to be tender, pound the beef with a
mallet or something, but you don't have to if your are in a hurry.
2. Marinate sliced beef in soy sauce (be generous!), lemon juice and
pepper. Let stand at least 30 mins (this is also optional, you
really don't have to marinate it for 30 mins. Sometimes my
marinading time is equal to the time I would have done the next
steps ...I told you this recipe is for lazyheads.).
3. Heat oil in skillet, while the oil is heating, press garlic and
slice onion - again whatever shape you want it to be - rings,
cubes, etc.
4. Sautee onion and garlic.
5. When the onion turns transparent (THIS IS IMPORTANT for some reason),
add meat including marinade if you want your bistek a little bit
wet. The marinade is actually delicious, so you better include it
too.
6. Sautee the whole caboodle until meat is brown or tender, whatever.
(Depends really on how you want the meat cooked. Since Filipino
bistek is well done, well, cook longer than three minutes. That
should do it.)
7. Serve over rice, enjoy, eat slowly. Do justice to what you cooked.
It probably took you 20 minutes to cook it, so take at least another
20 minutes to eat it
8. Better still, invite company over, and let them taste how wonderful
your cooking is.
BTW, bistek is also a Mexican dish, and they call it bistek too!
That is all.
Ken
Edgar Gorres
And guess what a salu-word for "chair" is. Sirret?
It's salumpwet :)
Luis Ramos
>
> 1. Cory Aquino is the nth president. Find n.
>
value of n).
Louie
cad...@csgrad.cs.vt.edu
>
>
> What about our famous "bistik" derived from the English
> phrase "beef steak"? I could go for that anytime ... !
>
I had the impression that 'bistek' was derived from the phrase 'beef steak'
until I discovered something in Florida.
There I was enjoying the warm weather in Tampa, saying to myself how
vey similar its atmosphere was to Manila. I was congratulating myself on
my good fortune in being able to feel the sun and walk around town wearing
shorts and tees. The girls in bikinis were..... Oops, I digress. Ah, yes,
I was talking about 'bistek.'
Just before we left for Virginia, my friends and I went for lunch in
a Spanish restaurant. The restaurant had 'Bistec' in their menu. It was beef
with onions, according to the waitress. I should have ordered it just
to verify whether this was the 'bistek' my family cooks. Now, I just have to
keep wondering whether 'bistek' is actually 'beef steak' or it is the Spanish
dish 'bistec.' Another possibility is that the restaurant had a Batanggueno
cook who introduced 'bistek' to the restaurant. I'm thinking of going back
to Florida just to get an answer, once and for all.
- Bombim Cadiz
Aimee Manosa
|> `Just thought I'd add that to the one I e-mailed you earlier ... I hope
|> you enjoyed that one, too!
Ah did! Ah did! 8^o That was funny! In fact, a whole bunch of you
e-mailed me this one "salung--" word. I still think that I must have
been brought up too "cloistered"... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Aimee
perci
> I went through the day laughing with the elevator conversation and
> the "salung---" in my mind constantly. This is quite hilarious!!!
> salung-dyoga?!? salung-bola!?! I was never taught this at school.
> Must not have been part of the nun language.
I can imagine Aimee going around all day with this silly grin on her
face.
- perci
Aimee Manosa
Well, as far as my grandma was concerned, she always served as bistec
and paella for our every sunday family gathering. So, bistec has always
been a part of my life. Except we do not cook it with onions, just garlic,
butter or olive oil, soy and pounded, thin, beef tenderloin.
I believe bistec (bisteca) is exactly what you all think and most likely
the pinoy bistek comes from the spanish bistec.
Aimee
Aimee Manosa
|
|> I can imagine Aimee going around all day with this silly grin on her
|> face.
|>
|> - perci
Silly grin?????? Silly GRIN???? It was more like an idiotic person grin!
I would start laughing and people would ask me why and I found I could
not explain why..."line catcher"?!?!? This just doesn't cut it...!
Aimee
Alan Angeles
Here's a wild guess(not in order):
1) Quezon
2) Osmena
3) Roxas
4) Quirino
5) Magsaysay
6) Garcia
7) Macapagal
8) Marcos (Barf me out, dude...sorry to all McCoy
followers)
9) Aquino
So, Alec Trebec....am I right?
Vegas Pinoy,
Alan
Danilo M Guinto
...............................................................................
. ang hindi magmahal sa sariling wika, ay higit pa sa malansang isda .
...............................................................................
Alex....@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Salungguhit - panty (or as they say in these parts, knickers).
--
Alex Valdez
MARCOS, VJ
>In article <15...@chaph.usc.edu> ra...@aludra.usc.edu (Luis Ramos) writes:
>>In article <61...@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> man...@cs.strath.ac.uk (Manuel A. Lopez) writes:
>>>
>>> 1. Cory Aquino is the nth president. Find n.
>>>
>>Nice translation. But does anyone know the answer to the question (i.e., the
>>value of n).
>>
>
> Here's a wild guess(not in order):
> 1) Quezon
> 2) Osmena
> 3) Roxas
> 4) Quirino
> 5) Magsaysay
> 6) Garcia
> 7) Macapagal
> 8) Marcos (Barf me out, dude...sorry to all McCoy
> followers)
i hope you're not referring to all the McCoys out there :)
Marcos, VJ>