Is Emilio Aguinaldo a heroe???
Bgdomingo
What I understand in Philippine history is that General Emilio Aguinaldo
sold the Philippines to the U.S. for $500,000.00. I don't know where the
money went, but considering his actions, I think he does not deserve to be
a Philippine heroe.
Also, he is the one who ordered the execution of Supremo Andres Bonifacio,
who is the head of the Katipunan.
Comments?
Bong D
Fred Amores
--
Fred Amores
amo...@ix.netcom.com
Silicon Valley, USA
Bgdomingo <bgdo...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970304232...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
===========================================================================
In case the above statement is true: In what authority then that General
Aguinaldo allegedly " sold" the Philippines to the U.S.? On the other hand,
it could be a pension plan given by the Americans to silence him. General
Emilio Aguinaldo made an important role in the Philippine independence
movement.
=========================================================================
Bgdomingo
I don't think General Aguinaldo contributed to the independence of the
country. I think he is just a sell-out.
Jvirata
Before you psot what you "hear" I think that you need to reread your
history regarding Emilio Aguinaldo.
Bomboy Yakal
Bgdomingo wrote:
>
> I don't think General Aguinaldo contributed to the independence of the
> country. I think he is just a sell-out.
I don't know if I'm reading the right history book. General Emilio
Aguinaldo is identified with the Malolos Republic or the declaration of
Philippine independence in June 12, 1898 as seen in our five peso bill.
BTW, what makes a man a hero? I believe Gen. Aguinaldo risked his life
in the quest for freedom. For this reason alone you can not deny his
heroism or his contribution in the independence movement.
Tikbalang
jvi...@aol.com (Jvirata)
Date: 6 Mar 1997 23:19:41 GMT
Message-ID: <19970306231...@ladder01.news.aol.com>wrote:
>Before you psot what you "hear" I think that you need to reread your
>history regarding Emilio Aguinaldo.
I noticed that your last name is Virata. Are you the former Minister of
Finance, Mr. Cezar Virata? Or, you are his sibling. Sorry, for that
posting really for me too have a high regard to Gen. Aguinaldo. I know
that the family of Virata are from Cavite province and close relative of
Aguinaldo...right?
Name
>>What I understand in Philippine history is that General Emilio Aguinaldo
>sold the Philippines to the U.S. for $500,000.00. I don't know where the
>money went, but considering his actions, I think he does not deserve to be
>a Philippine heroe.
AGREE. BTW, DAN QUAYLE WOULD BE EXTREMELY PROUD.
antonqui
On 4 Mar 1997 23:26:51 GMT, bgdo...@aol.com (Bgdomingo) wrote:
>What I understand in Philippine history is that General Emilio Aguinaldo
>sold the Philippines to the U.S. for $500,000.00. I don't know where the
>money went, but considering his actions, I think he does not deserve to be
>a Philippine heroe.
>Also, he is the one who ordered the execution of Supremo Andres Bonifacio,
>who is the head of the Katipunan.
>Comments?
>Bong D
Yeah, Emil is not a hero with an E, he's a hero WITHOUT an E.
Are you the guy who started this "it is rude to post in tagalog..."
thread, and tells this NG that it is more appropriate to post in
English? Man, you cannot even spell hero. Even your grammar doesn't
sound right.
Mabuti pa kapampanganin mo na lang, iho.
TatieA
Is Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo a hero ? No, I considered him an anti hero!
He was the First president not elected by the people. Power grabber , full
of betrayal ang gobyerno n'ya!
Bgdomingo
Not only that, he went into hiding or exile in Hong Kong while the rest of
his men fought the Spaniards to the death. The only time he had the chance
to return back home was when he was escorted by the Americans. He is also
responsible for the execution of Supremo Andres Bonifacio. I think he is a
traitor, and a coward.
Bong D
Rhett Valino Pascual
While i appreciate your attempt to write an interesting article which
would begin a thread, I must say that your efforts fall below the required
mark for a decent article.
I have several suggestions:
1. for every accusation, why don't you spend some time discussing the
pros and cons. for example, when you say he was not elected by the
people, why don't you discuss with us the relevance of being elected by
the people. Marcos in his initial elections was elected by the people.
Would this make him a hero? I'm sure that now you can see my point.
2. Your reference to power grabber illustrated the main characteristic of
anyone in politics. why was aguialdo different from ramos? Wasn't ramos
a part of the marcos government? Wasn't he responsible for the injustices
which accumulated during the 70's and 80's?
3. As for betrayal, how many levels of betrayal are there? what are some
specific betrayals that the government did under aguinaldo.
i'm sure that if you follow this simple rule, that you would be able to
conjure a fantastic thread starter.
REtongGuideToSCF
In article <19970320002...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
--
Tikbalang
He might be a controversial hero but to fight against Spaniards and
Americans is a great achievement that could not be denied. Without
Aguinaldo, what would be the History of the Philippines would be in the
minds of Western Historians? Would they describe the Philippines as an
islands that is inhabited by brainless people or whatever. I think one
should read his biography and past history of the Philippine-American War
and the Spanish-American war.
Jvirata
OH MY GOD REtong is back or did he just lurk for a while? I can only agree
with master REtong on his suggestions. People need to reassess their
revisionist history before opening their mouths, (and little minds) to
SCF.
J BAUTISTA VIRATA.
And yes, I believe Aguinaldo was and always will be a hero. LONG LIVE THE
5 PESO BILL!
Mat R. Vasquez
Yes, to fight foreign invaders is indeed heroic thing to do. To put oneself in such a powerful position,
however, carries some baggage. A few of these are to be loyal to your cause and your country, look after the
welfare of your men, and to be a role model to your fellow citizens (the present and future). There are
questions about whether Gen. Aguinaldo was loyal to his cause, but I would certainly give him the benefit of
the doubt. He lived in a different time with different values. If he accepted those payments to buy arms and
strengthen his position (in other words, cheat his enemies), then he is a smart man and a wise leader.
It is very difficult to judge a man for some things that he did simply because we don't know what
pressure/choices he was under when he made these controversial decisions. All we see is the two dimensional
picture. I do credit him for leading the Filipinos to assert their independence. It is not an easy thing to
do. In addition, any Filipino who risks his life for his country and did his best under difficult conditions
(which Aguinaldo was in) deserves some respect.
Remember that despite his popularity, Aguinaldo did not became a dictator and did not plunder the country.
bRAM
Jvirata <jvi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970321213...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Generalissimo Emilio Aguinaldo won an election held in his backyard
against Supremo Gat. Andres Bonifacio. The latter cried election fraud. He
was branded a traitor after an attempt to establish a rival rebel
government. Generalissimo Aguinaldo ordered his arrest and execution.
Bonifacio had long resided on the 5 PESO BILL, honored a hero by the
Republic of the Philippines since gaining independence from U.S. of A.
Marcos era--Finance Minister Cesar Virata of Cavite, a decendant of
Generalissimo Emilio Aguinaldo, had Bonifacio removed from the 5 PESO BILL
and replaced by... who else? Emilio Aguinaldo!
Mr. J BAUTISTA VIRATA, are you related to x-Minister Cesar Virata of
Cavite?
LONG LIVE THE 5 PESO BILL, for whatever it is worth!
Szu-Wen Huang
jes...@echo-on.net wrote:
[...]
: In the case of Emilio Aguinaldo, discretion was the better part of
: valor. You have to give him credit for recognizing that he was
: overmatched and outgunned by the Americans, that a live representative
: of the Rebellion was better than a dead one. To paraphrase an old
: saying, "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day."
In this case we'll never know. Emilio Aguinaldo did not appear to have
fought in any other day. This is always the problem with history. We
know Aguinaldo surrendered to the Americans as historical fact.
Conventional wisdom calls that traitorous cowardice, yet a perfectly
plausible opinion is that cooperating with the Americans was better for
the Filipinos.
Later, the United States granted Philippine independence without the
Philippines having to fight for it (I might add, unlike *many* former
British colonies, including the US). What would have happened if more
Filipinos fought the Americans to the death? If the Philippines
inflicted losses on America the way Japan or Vietnam did, would the
eventual transfer of power be as peaceful?
We don't know. Shall we let history rest in peace? We know that
Aguinaldo, for reasons he carried with him to his grave, surrendered
to the Americans. It is factual that as self-proclaimed leader of
the Filipinos, he *failed* to resist the Americans. (Whether he
surrendered in cowardice or to preserve lives in a futile war does
not change this fact.)
I think we can still learn lessons from history without having to come
to conclusions as to why people did what they did.
jes...@echo-on.net
In the case of Emilio Aguinaldo, discretion was the better part of
ngo...@hkucc.hku.hk
In article <5h9ein$h...@news1.mnsinc.com>, hu...@mnsinc.com (Szu-Wen Huang) writes:
> jes...@echo-on.net wrote:
> [...]
> : In the case of Emilio Aguinaldo, discretion was the better part of
> : valor. You have to give him credit for recognizing that he was
> : overmatched and outgunned by the Americans, that a live representative
> : of the Rebellion was better than a dead one. To paraphrase an old
> : saying, "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day."
>
> fought in any other day. This is always the problem with history. We
> know Aguinaldo surrendered to the Americans as historical fact.
Not exactly. After fighting the Americans for more than two years, he
was _captured_ by American troops who had gotten into his Palawan hideout by a
ruse. He only "surrendered" at gunpoint; the alternative would have been
instant death. If this makes him a "coward," so is everyone who gives up his
watch or wallet to a mugger.
> Conventional wisdom calls that traitorous cowardice, yet a perfectly
> plausible opinion is that cooperating with the Americans was better for
> the Filipinos.
>
> Later, the United States granted Philippine independence without the
> Philippines having to fight for it (I might add, unlike *many* former
> British colonies, including the US). What would have happened if more
> Filipinos fought the Americans to the death? If the Philippines
> inflicted losses on America the way Japan or Vietnam did, would the
> eventual transfer of power be as peaceful?
>
> We don't know. Shall we let history rest in peace? We know that
> Aguinaldo, for reasons he carried with him to his grave, surrendered
> to the Americans. It is factual that as self-proclaimed leader of
> the Filipinos, he *failed* to resist the Americans. (Whether he
> surrendered in cowardice or to preserve lives in a futile war does
> not change this fact.)
Again, this is _not_ "factual." He *did* resist the Americans, from
early 1899 until his capture in 1901.
>
> I think we can still learn lessons from history without having to come
> to conclusions as to why people did what they did.
The problematic behavior -- from a nationalist perspective -- is that
_after_ he was captured he agreed to take the oath of allegiance to the US, and
to call upon the remaining revolutionaries in the field to surrender. This he
did not have to do. If he had refused, he would have been imprisoned, or
perhaps exiled (to Guam, like Mabini), but he would not have been killed.
Was this wrong? Does this cancel his earlier bravery, when he did
fight the Americans? That is for Filipinos to discuss and decide, not for an
outsider like myself. All I'm trying to do here is get the facts straight.
Norman Owen
ngo...@hku.hk
Tikbalang
hu...@mnsinc.com (Szu-Wen Huang)
Date: 25 Mar 1997 21:03:19 GMT
Message-ID: <5h9ein$h...@news1.mnsinc.com>
>We don't know. Shall we let history rest in peace? We know that
>Aguinaldo, for reasons he carried with him to his grave, surrendered
>to the Americans. It is factual that as self-proclaimed leader of
>the Filipinos, he *failed* to resist the Americans. (Whether he
>surrendered in cowardice or to preserve lives in a futile war does
>not change this fact.)
Gen. Aguinaldo did not surrender to the Americans but was betrayed by
another ethnic group. It was reported that the Americans made a scheme of
trapping him and they were successfull. This was stated in the biography
of Col. Frederick Funston, another American hero.
Ted R
jes...@echo-on.net wrote:
>
> On 20 Mar 1997 15:12:28 GMT, bgdo...@aol.com (Bgdomingo) wrote:
>
> >Not only that, he went into hiding or exile in Hong Kong while the rest of
> >his men fought the Spaniards to the death. The only time he had the chance
> >to return back home was when he was escorted by the Americans. He is also
> >responsible for the execution of Supremo Andres Bonifacio. I think he is a
> >traitor, and a coward.
> >
> >Bong D
This reminds me of another leader who betrayed the
Filipinos and also caused the death of many. He was
also exiled but he returned back home in a casket, dead.
> In the case of Emilio Aguinaldo, discretion was the better part of
> valor. You have to give him credit for recognizing that he was
> overmatched and outgunned by the Americans, that a live representative
> of the Rebellion was better than a dead one. To paraphrase an old
> saying, "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day."
Aguinaldo may have been one smart and crafty dude,
but he sure wasn't a leader to his men. When things
got hot in the kitchen, he told his grunts to put the
fire out while he quietly slipped out the back door
to save his own skin. To paraphrase an old saying
'Matagal mamatay ang masamang damo'.
Ted R
Bgdomingo
It is proper then to remove General Aguinaldo's status as national hero.
He does not belong with the likes of Dr. Jose Rizal, Andres Bonifacio,etc.
He did nothing for the benefit of the nation.
Bong D
Bgdomingo
General Aguinaldo indeed surrendered to the Americans for the benefit of
the people. But during the Spanish time, he went into exile in Hong Kong
and also was responsible for the execution of Supremo Andres Bonifacio.
While he is sitting pretty in Hong Kong, his men fought the Spanish army
to the death. We should honor his men rather than Aguinaldo. The only
reason he was able to return back home was because he was escorted by
General Dewey onto Manila Bay. Aguinaldo does not deserve to be considered
as a hero, the nation should take away that status from him.
Bong D
Ted R
Szu-Wen Huang wrote:
> We don't know. Shall we let history rest in peace? We know that
> Aguinaldo, for reasons he carried with him to his grave, surrendered
> to the Americans. It is factual that as self-proclaimed leader of
> the Filipinos, he *failed* to resist the Americans. (Whether he
> surrendered in cowardice or to preserve lives in a futile war does
> not change this fact.)
>
> I think we can still learn lessons from history without having to come
> to conclusions as to why people did what they did.
You can let the dead rest in peace but not history. As long
as certain individuals make it their business to alter and distort
history, it is also our business to expose these malicious attempts.
You can cast as much doubt as you want around Aguinaldo's movites
but the facts remain the same - his actions were never fully
explained to everyone's satisfaction, he plotted the execution
of Andres Bonifacio, and he clearly became a beneficiary after his
surrender to the Americans.
Conclusions about a person's deeds can make a hero or a traitor
out of him. This will be demonstrated once more when another
so-called leader is accorded the honor of heroism by his residence
in the Hero's Cemetery. So have we learned our lessons yet?
Ted R
Ted R
Bgdomingo wrote:
>
> It is proper then to remove General Aguinaldo's status as national hero.
> He does not belong with the likes of Dr. Jose Rizal, Andres Bonifacio,etc.
>
> Bong D
Sure, but first you have to convince a few historians
and politicians that Aguinaldo is not a hero.
Ted R
James Shelledy, III
Andrew E is the true Filipino hero!
unk...@pacbell.net
In article <5he7dt$bei$1...@nnrp-101.bryant.webtv.net>, James Shelledy, III
<Jem...@webtv.net> wrote:
> Andrew E is the true Filipino hero!
Free trial on Web TV???
Why dont you just watch TV instead of making stupid comments???
Hmm...I wonder if viruses can affect your signal....I know it has
already affected your brain.
Tange!
Simon Foley
Szu-Wen Huang wrote:
>
>
> Later, the United States granted Philippine independence without the
> Philippines having to fight for it (I might add, unlike *many* former
> British colonies, including the US). What would have happened if more
> Filipinos fought the Americans to the death? If the Philippines
> inflicted losses on America the way Japan or Vietnam did, would the
> eventual transfer of power be as peaceful?
>
The US may have granted the Philippines independence fairly peacefully,
but you
seemed to have missed the fact that US troops in Philippines during the
Philippine American War after Aguinaldo surrendered slaughtered many
men,
women and children. That the Americans bought the Philippines from the
Spanish when
the people of the Philippines had declared independence, and the US
pursued a war
of conquest against a foreign sovereign country for economic gain. The
US goverment
hoped to gain access to the Chinese markets via Manila, and had to
expend a great deal
of effort keeping the details of the war in Philippines from the public.
If you haven't read any of the eyewitness accounts of the US soldiers'
actions you
should, it will open your eyes. Total annihilation of entire villages
was considered
reasonable tactics by the US generals.
regards, Simon.
Mat R. Vasquez
Simon Foley wrote:
>
> Szu-Wen Huang wrote:
> The US may have granted the Philippines independence fairly peacefully,
> but you
> seemed to have missed the fact that US troops in Philippines during the
> Philippine American War after Aguinaldo surrendered slaughtered many
> men,
> women and children. That the Americans bought the Philippines from the
> Spanish when
> the people of the Philippines had declared independence, and the US
> pursued a war
> of conquest against a foreign sovereign country for economic gain. The
> US goverment
> hoped to gain access to the Chinese markets via Manila, and had to
> expend a great deal
> of effort keeping the details of the war in Philippines from the public.
>
> If you haven't read any of the eyewitness accounts of the US soldiers'
> actions you
> should, it will open your eyes. Total annihilation of entire villages
> was considered
> reasonable tactics by the US generals.
>
> regards, Simon.
I have read accounts about how American troops pacified many villages in the Philippines during the
Fil-Am war. One technique that was described in detail by an American was the water torture. They fill up a
man's stomach, stomp on him (literally) until all the water is vomited out, then they fill him up again. This
is only one of many inhumane ways that they deal with Filipinos. There was a book that I checked out from a
community college a couple of years ago. It was written by an American, and was well researched. I forgot
the title, but I don't think it will be hard to find this book.
REad on,
Mat
User
ngo...@hkucc.hku.hk wrote:
> > I think we can still learn lessons from history without having to come
> > to conclusions as to why people did what they did.
>
> The problematic behavior -- from a nationalist perspective -- is that
> _after_ he was captured he agreed to take the oath of allegiance to the US, and
> to call upon the remaining revolutionaries in the field to surrender.
> Norman Owen
> ngo...@hku.hk
Nobody has yet mentioned that Aguinaldo was responsible for the murder of the
real Philipino patriot, Andres Bonifacio. IMO, it is this action that
settles the debate about his place in history.
Vicluzon
Read David Haward Bain's Sitting in Darkness: Americans in the
Philippines, for a sympathetic portrayal of Aguinaldo's rise, the death of
Bonifacio he says (the Supremo had abused his power and had proved inept
militarily; however, his court-martial was a sham and his execution was
done in a cowardly style); the death of Luna (which Bain blames mostly on
Buencamino, an ilustrado official in Aguinaldo's cabinet who later turned
americanista; however, he recognizes that Aguinaldo did not punish the
Cavite soldiers who killed General Luna); the rise of Frederick Funston to
general officer in the US Army despite having attended no military school
and not having gone up through the ranks (he was commissioned as a
colonel, right below general, after service as as an artillery officer in
the Cuban rebel army); Aguinaldo's trek through Northern Luzon to Palanan;
Funston's trek through the beach of east Luzon to Palanan, with the
Macabebe Scouts (from Pampanga; the Macabebes hated the other ethnic
groups and served Spain as colonial troops -- this is not to say that only
Pampangans served in the Spanish colonial army: probably all ethnic
groups except the mountaineers and the Muslims did).
For a portrayal of US military atrocities, a good book is Stuart Creighton
Miller's "Benevolent Assimilation" -- especially the part about the
massacres on Samar (both done by US and Filipino forces) and the
concentration camps in Batangas.
Bong "Tio Paeng" Reyes
But his exile was not really a choice. It was one of the agreements he
made together with Gregorio del Pilar with the Spaniards in the "Pact of
Biak na Bato". To consider/unconsider him from being a hero for
something
he does not have any control of might be a little infair.
It is true that he ordered Bonifacio's end but does anybody know the
real
reason for this? He might have had a valid reason for doing so.
Tio Paeng
ASFT
Common guys, did you read Zaide? It was Magsaysay who killed Bonifacio...
Read your book again...
--
What was Einstein's greatest mistake?
Find out in http://home.netvigator.com/~acidbent/index.htm
User <j.d....@open.ac.uk> wrote
>
> > > I think we can still learn lessons from history without having to
come
> > > to conclusions as to why people did what they did.
> >
>
Albert Yan
ASFT wrote:
>
> Common guys, did you read Zaide? It was Magsaysay who killed Bonifacio...
> Read your book again...
>
AFTER Bonifacio was executed (1897).
Albert
Sun Dutan
It doesn't matter when he was born. Magsaysay found
a time machine inside one of the tunnels in Corregidor
and he used that to kill Magellan, Bonifacio, and Aquino.
So now the secret is out - it was Magsaysay, not Galman.
Sun Dutan
Tikbalang
Sun Dutan <sdu...@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 21:06:21 -0800
Message-ID: <3345D...@aol.com> wrote:
> It doesn't matter when he was born. Magsaysay found
>a time machine inside one of the tunnels in Corregidor
>and he used that to kill Magellan, Bonifacio, and Aquino.
>So now the secret is out - it was Magsaysay, not Galman.
And what happen to the time machine?
Joey Cruz
In article <01bc410b$a69bb800$0100007f@jbfn>,
ASFT <acid...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>Common guys, did you read Zaide? It was Magsaysay who killed Bonifacio...
>the
>>
It was MACAPAGAL under order from E. Aguinaldo...
Alan
Who/what is Zaide? I just finished "Sitting In Darkness" (David Bain)
which covers some of the same Philippine-American war period, and I would
like to learn more.
Sun Dutan <sdu...@aol.com> wrote in article <3345D...@aol.com>...
> Albert Yan wrote:
> >
> > ASFT wrote:
> > >
> > > Common guys, did you read Zaide? It was Magsaysay who killed
Bonifacio...
> > > Read your book again...
> > >
> > I wonder how Magsaysay did that? He (Magsaysay) was born 1907, 10 years
> > AFTER Bonifacio was executed (1897).
>
> It doesn't matter when he was born. Magsaysay found
> a time machine inside one of the tunnels in Corregidor
> and he used that to kill Magellan, Bonifacio, and Aquino.
> So now the secret is out - it was Magsaysay, not Galman.
>
> Sun Dutan
>
Veltisezar B. Bautista
Dear Ted,
I would like to post a message to the soc.culture.filipino newsgroup.
Can you email me the newsgroup's address?
Thanks a lot.
Veltisezar "Velty" B. Bautista
book...@mich.com
Sun Dutan
Simon Foley wrote:
>
> The US may have granted the Philippines independence fairly peacefully,
> but you seemed to have missed the fact that US troops in Philippines
> during the Philippine American War after Aguinaldo surrendered
> slaughtered many men, women and children. That the Americans bought
If Aguinaldo had a lot of his men killed by the Americans before he
surrendered and scores innocent civilians after he did, I wonder what
terms of surrender was imposed upon the Filipinos at that time? Did
Aguinaldo attempt to prevent the mass slaughter? What kind of leaders
did the Filipinos have at that time?
> the Philippines from the Spanish when the people of the Philippines
> had declared independence, and the US pursued a war of conquest against
> a foreign sovereign country for economic gain. The US goverment
> hoped to gain access to the Chinese markets via Manila, and had to
> expend a great deal of effort keeping the details of the war in
> Philippines from the public.
>
> If you haven't read any of the eyewitness accounts of the US soldiers'
> actions you should, it will open your eyes. Total annihilation of
> entire villages was considered reasonable tactics by the US generals.
Seems the Americans had gained a lot of experience when they were
exterminating the American Indians.
Sun Dutan
> regards, Simon.
Khan
There weren't many heroes to be found in this time period. Almost every
player had some selfish objective in mind. But our (American) acts in this
war were really, really atrocious. And believe me, I'm not an American
basher, it's just the simple truth. Our own congressmen of the time found
the war to be more of a slaughter, and the American people were against
annexation from the start. Consider that orders of General Jacob Smith on
Samar Island, to his troops: "I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and
burn, and the more you kill and burn the more you will please me." He went
on to say that he wanted every Filipino dead who was ten years old or
older, and that the island was to be made into a "howling wilderness." It
simply amazes me that we are taught nothing about the Philippine
"Insurrection" in school - it's almost impossible to find books on it.
Though most Americans were completely against annexation, it only takes a
few in Washington to make things like this happen, and to tarnish our
history.
Sun Dutan <sdu...@aol.com> wrote in article <335181...@aol.com>...
Jvirata
Marcos got the time machine and put it in a vault in his swiss bank.
Asoft
The problem is that this person thinks this is a joke that Magsaysay killed
Bonifacio.
It shows complete ignorance of history. In fact I used to argue with
history professors on this during parties. They really thought I was crazy.
But always the Zaide book proves them wrong.
In fact one professor included this question in his exams... always nobody
gets the exact answer.
I have requested so many times for them to look up at the history book by
Zaide. Just humor me. Look at the exact sentence on who actually killed
Bonifacio. If you rely only on your incomplete assessment, that's not good.
--
Who's top of mind for customized programming?
http://home.netvigator.com/~acidbent/index.html
Jvirata <jvi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970414235...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
ngo...@hkucc.hku.hk
In article <01bc4a1a$7078c7a0$0100007f@jbfn>, "Asoft" <acid...@netvigator.com> writes:
> The problem is that this person thinks this is a joke that Magsaysay killed
> Bonifacio.
> It shows complete ignorance of history. In fact I used to argue with
> history professors on this during parties. They really thought I was crazy.
> But always the Zaide book proves them wrong.
>
> In fact one professor included this question in his exams... always nobody
> gets the exact answer.
>
> I have requested so many times for them to look up at the history book by
> Zaide. Just humor me. Look at the exact sentence on who actually killed
> Bonifacio. If you rely only on your incomplete assessment, that's not good.
My sources indicate that the officer in charge of Bonifacio's execution
was Lazaro MAKAPAGAL, not Magsaysay. Sounds like the same joke (= "funny"
truth), different punchline. What does Zaide say? (And, by the way, he wrote
dozens of "history books," so I don't know which one you're referring to.)
Norman
Bgdomingo
The officer who ordered the execution of Supremo Bonifacio is none other
than the traitor and coward, General Aguinaldo (self proclaimed general).
He even flee to Hong Kong and let his men die fighting the Spanish forces.
Aguinaldo doe not have any nuts hanging between his legs at that time.
Bong D
"The Deep South"
Pedro Penduko
Magsaysay killed
> Bonifacio.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They were not even in the same generation.! Please enlighten us on your
theory.
--
Pedro Penduko
^ ________^
^ ^
^ " Subukan pamu, para mabalu ! "
Asoft <acid...@netvigator.com> wrote in article
<01bc4a1a$7078c7a0$0100007f@jbfn>...
> The problem is that this person thinks this is a joke that > It shows
complete ignorance of history. In fact I used to argue with
> history professors on this during parties. They really thought I was
crazy.
> But always the Zaide book proves them wrong.
>
> In fact one professor included this question in his exams... always
nobody
> gets the exact answer.
>
> I have requested so many times for them to look up at the history book
by
> Zaide. Just humor me. Look at the exact sentence on who actually killed
> Bonifacio. If you rely only on your incomplete assessment, that's not
good.
>
Sun Dutan
ngo...@hkucc.hku.hk wrote:
>
> In article <01bc4a1a$7078c7a0$0100007f@jbfn>, "Asoft" <acid...@netvigator.com> writes:
> > Bonifacio.
> > It shows complete ignorance of history. In fact I used to argue with
> > history professors on this during parties. They really thought I was crazy.
> > But always the Zaide book proves them wrong.
Hey Asoft, not only is your asshole soft but your brain has not been
born yet.
> > In fact one professor included this question in his exams... always nobody
> > gets the exact answer.
> >
> > I have requested so many times for them to look up at the history book by
> > Zaide. Just humor me. Look at the exact sentence on who actually killed
> > Bonifacio. If you rely only on your incomplete assessment, that's not good.
Hahahaha! I'm laughing now, ok? Your ass-ess-ment really stinks!!!
> My sources indicate that the officer in charge of Bonifacio's execution
> was Lazaro MAKAPAGAL, not Magsaysay. Sounds like the same joke (= "funny"
> truth), different punchline. What does Zaide say? (And, by the way, he wrote
> dozens of "history books," so I don't know which one you're referring to.)
> Norman
Filipinos are very good at forgery!! Beware of imitations and fakes!!
Very few historical records about the Philipines can be trusted!! The
only
person who always told the truth was Marcos!!
> > Who's top of mind for customized programming?
> > http://home.netvigator.com/~acidbent/index.html
> >
> > Jvirata <jvi...@aol.com> wrote in article
> > <19970414235...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> > Marcos got the time machine and put it in a vault in his swiss bank.
Meanwhile, Imelda took the plans to DeLorean and sold it for a few
million
bucks to finance her dream of the world's most decadent shoe
collection!!
Sun Dutan
bon...@geocities.com
In article <01bc4a1a$7078c7a0$0100007f@jbfn>,
"Asoft" <acid...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
>
> The problem is that this person thinks this is a joke that Magsaysay killed
> Bonifacio.
Would you blame him/her for thinking this way?
> It shows complete ignorance of history. In fact I used to argue with
> history professors on this during parties. They really thought I was crazy.
> But always the Zaide book proves them wrong.
Your basing your facts on what **ONE** person said. Have you taken the
incentive of reading other history books, diaries, articles, etc. that
pertains to this subject? Did another author back up this claim? I don't
know if you've noticed that in every chapter of history books that there
are listings(with emphasis to "s") of references as to where the
information was gathered. You on the other hand...has managed to provide
ONE reference and to which I might add, the author has a reputation of
being biased towards the americans.
> I have requested so many times for them to look up at the history book by
> Zaide. Just humor me. Look at the exact sentence on who actually killed
> Bonifacio. If you rely only on your incomplete assessment, that's not good.
I am sorry Asoft --but the world doesn't seem to work that way. You
are in the minority regarding this issue...therefore the burden of
proof lies in your hands. Did Christopher Columbus ask the world to
prove that the world isn't round?
I am not questioning that Zaide did claims this. Can this claim
be proven from other historical documents? Asoft, you need more
information than just "Zaide said so" --to convince others of what
you claim is the truth. I now what youre going to say.."You can't
handle the truth!!".
Happy hunting.
===================================================
Bong Reyes
e-mail: bon...@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/6781/index.html
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