Appeal to Tarik and Haileselassie
SosenaTola
for news, civilized discourse on matters relevant to our home land. Please
restraine yourself from making it a forum for exchanging insults. In this
respect, I found Ato Haileselassies title addressing to "mother Fu--ers"
unfortunate. Ato Tarik's vendeta against Ato Haileselassie is equally
unfortunate.
As a follower of this forum, I found Ato Haileselassies cheap shots against
Koki beneath contempt. In all his postings he has not challenged her views.
Ato Haileselassie's attempt to portray Koki as anti-Ethiopian is no more than a
personal vendeta. Her views are clear to her readers. She had siad time and
again that our first choice is to work with a reformed TPLF. This is made
clear in her writings. I don't understand why Ato Haileselassie continues to
accuse her of selling her service and body to Isayas without substantiating his
allegation. For many Ethiopians Koki is as Ethiopian as one can get. Some of
her views may be contrary to popular opinion. But that does not make her
anti-Ethiopian. In all her writings Koki has been very critical of EPLF and
Isayas.
Her views are different from some of the vocal participants of this forum (eg.
Yeshi, Mesgena, Belete, Dagmawi, etc) None of thses call her anti-Ethiopian.
Haileselassie Girmay
egregious enough to rally support against me, I have never said KOKi is a
prostitute, if at all I have mentioned the words, bodily service, I meant
it those who intend to serve as foot soldiers posed by the side of Isayase
to fight against Ethiopians.
The word mother-fuckers was not also intended to KOki. Again you are
twisting and rending the context to fit your hate campaign against me. The
woman has not engaged herself in a debate with me and I know that much of
A<B>C code of debate not to talk to a phantom, who is not around. It was not
even intended against Tarik who recited verses after verse of insult
referring to me. Mother fucker was intended for the Hawks living at the edge
of this forum and calling me Agame { little did they know I call myself
agame and feel no shame], skunk, tribalist, racist, beggar etc. etc., etc..
If yoou can recall the tiltle it says, Not for the Benefit of the
mother-fucker. How can it not be for the benefit of Tarik when it is written
in response to his article for you to come out to accuse that I insulted
Tarkit or for that matter the person behind Tarik - Koki? For any one, I
know there are few exception who took offence and staved them off, but the
rest of you who felt offended by words you got whose target you got them
wrong, not a word was raised against what transpired was coming form
Eritreans EPLFties and their friends. Do you call this impartial.
Fasil Nega wrote in message
<199807150541...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>I have been an admirer of Koki and her writings for some time. She is no
doubt
>an articulate person and an independent thinker. Her vocal critics include
>Professor Tilahun Yilma, Ato Haileselassie Girmay, House Speaker Dawit
>Yohannes, Professor Habte Churenet, etc. Her admirers also come from
across
>the political spectrum. This much is not surprising. Haileselassie's
>reference to her as "Mother fucker" and "a woman who sells her flesh to
>Isayas", however, is difficult to comprehend.
>
>In order to avoid such an unfortunate situation, I would like to propose a
>moderated debate between Koki, Teka, Tarik etc on the one hand and
>Haileselassie, Belete, Yeshi, Mesgana etc on the other hand. The first
group
>will obviously argue why we should not side with unreformed TPLF. The
second
>group will debate why it is critical to support TPLF to wage war against
EPLF's
>aggression without any condition.
>
>In my opinion, if we used a moderated forum none of Koki's articles would
have
>been rejected. On the contarary none of Ato Haileselassie's articles
targeting
>Koki would have been accepted for posting.
SosenaTola wrote in message
<199807150429...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Haileselassie Girmay
they could do so in an inexpensive way. They could go to Plazza Indepenecia,
in Rome if they are tried of Endaba Sahwel rather than to have to take a
long trip to the USA in search of someone who might have her own demands.
No I would not have thought so and I would not spent time conjuring up the
unworkable. What has prostitution got to do with an issue revolving about
war and recurtment of soldiers. Bodily servese unless for those who do not
want to tax their minds to searh the actual meaning could not be meant the
sell of flesh for pleasure but the other things.
Haileselassie Girmay wrote in message <6oi0s9$a65$2...@heliodor.xara.net>...
Fasil Nega
:Few point that needs to be clarified. Unless :you wanted it to sound
:egregious enough to rally support against me, :I have never said KOKi is a
:prostitute, if at all I have mentioned the :words, bodily service, I meant
:it those who intend to serve as foot soldiers :posed by the side of Isayase
:to fight against Ethiopians.
What you said was not bodily service You said selling her flesh. This in my
opinion and in the opinion of many others implies prostitution.
:The word mother-fuckers was not also :intended to KOki. Again you are
:twisting and rending the context to fit your :hate campaign against me. The
:woman has not engaged herself in a debate :with me and I know that much of
:AC code of debate not to talk to a phantom, :who is not around. It was not
:even intended against Tarik who recited :verses after verse of insult
:referring to me. Mother fucker was intended :for the Hawks living at the edge
:of this forum and calling me Agame
In rereading your posting I now believe the reference was not to Koki. I
apologize for my error. I have nothing against you. What I don't like is your
personal attack of those who do not share your views.
Haileselassie Girmay
is you, but those men, including women critics, have a mindset that always
point a fingure that any interaction between man and a woman has to be only
in sexual sense. As I said whether it was bodily service oras you have now
put it, sell of flesh , I meant serving in psychical presence as a soldier
to the Army of what I regard mas an aggressor. I do not attack people
with different views , in fact I am all for people to have differing views.
What I do not like is characterisation of a whole lot of people and and bash
them in one basket as in the words of the critics for example, tribalist,
tribal land etc.. Give you an example Tigray got a donation of hundreds of
thousands or even close to billions during the famine. It went through,
inter alia, TPLF (REST) and after seventeen years of bloodshed the TPLF put
some millions worth of projects in Tigray and the whole Tigray that lost
the money donated began to receive the beating end as one targeted for
progress when in fact some projects were put from embezzled wealth of Tigray
by TPLF to make profit for themselves. How can one say a nation that fought
for so long is benefiting from TPLF when in fact it was only defended by
some militia men when invaded. A nation who should have tanks and missiles
and experienced fighters as its defence exposed to swift occupation, and
these they call Tigray come out as benefactor from TPLF. The critics has
lost their head and it is because of their Tigrayan hatred. Anyone who has
visted Tigray would defend such allegation of Tigray marching in the road of
progress at a startk speed compared to the rest. Some TPLF businesses have
mashroomed but an economist can figure out why the TPLF chose Tigray to open
its teashops and trading trading centres.
Fasil Nega wrote in
message<199807151407...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
SosenaTola
In my opinion the above is not right. What we are seeing in Ethiopia now
is an open resource transfer from the rest of Ethiopia to Tigray by TPLF. The
donation that TPLF got during its gorilla war time was strictly humanitarian
help, at most hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your figure billions is too
inflated and fiction.
Meles himself has admitted in a public interview that TPLF/EPRDF has given seed
money to REST. You may read independent observers such as the Economist, LA
Times, the Financial Times, and Indian Ocean News Letter. They all have
indicated with corroborating evidence the level of resource transfer from the
rest of Ethiopia to benefit Tigray. TPLF's policy is clearly: "develop Tigray
at the expense of Ethiopia." This is no news. I am surprised you failed to
see this.
The Economist called Ethiopia's tribal homelands as scham federalism, which is
designed to divide and rule. And to facilitate the looting of the rest of
trabal homelands to benefit Tigray.
The Financial Times made it clear that the level of resource transfer under
TPLF is stagering.
Haileselassie Girmay
they could do so in an inexpensive way. They could go to Plaza Indepenecia,
in Rome if they are tried of Endaba Sahwel rather than to have to take a
long trip to the USA in search of someone who might have her own demands.
No I would not have thought so and I would not spent time conjuring up the
unworkable. What has prostitution got to do with an issue revolving about
want to tax their minds to search the actual meaning could not be meant
the
sell of flesh for pleasure but the other things.
Haileselassie Girmay wrote in message <6oi0s9$a65$2...@heliodor.xara.net>...
>egregious enough to rally support against me, I have never said KOKi is a
>prostitute, if at all I have mentioned the words, bodily service, I meant
>it those who intend to serve as foot soldiers posed by the side of Isayase
>to fight against Ethiopians.
>twisting and rending the context to fit your hate campaign against me. The
>woman has not engaged herself in a debate with me and I know that much of
not
>even intended against Tarik who recited verses after verse of insult
>referring to me. Mother fucker was intended for the Hawks living at the
edge
>agame and feel no shame], skunk, tribalist, racist, beggar etc. etc., etc..
>If yoou can recall the tiltle it says, Not for the Benefit of the
>mother-fucker. How can it not be for the benefit of Tarik when it is
written
>in response to his article for you to come out to accuse that I insulted
>Tarkit or for that matter the person behind Tarik - Koki? For any one, I
>know there are few exception who took offence and staved them off, but the
>rest of you who felt offended by words you got whose target you got them
>wrong, not a word was raised against what transpired was coming form
>Eritreans EPLFties and their friends. Do you call this impartial.
>Few point that needs to be clarified. Unless you wanted it to sound
>egregious enough to rally support against me, I have never said KOKi is a
>prostitute, if at all I have mentioned the words, bodily service, I meant
>it those who intend to serve as foot soldiers posed by the side of Isayase
>to fight against Ethiopians.
>twisting and rending the context to fit your hate campaign against me. The
>woman has not engaged herself in a debate with me and I know that much of
not
>even intended against Tarik who recited verses after verse of insult
>referring to me. Mother fucker was intended for the Hawks living at the
edge
>agame and feel no shame], skunk, tribalist, racist, beggar etc. etc., etc..
>If yoou can recall the tiltle it says, Not for the Benefit of the
>mother-fucker. How can it not be for the benefit of Tarik when it is
written
>in response to his article for you to come out to accuse that I insulted
>Tarkit or for that matter the person behind Tarik - Koki? For any one, I
>know there are few exception who took offence and staved them off, but the
>rest of you who felt offended by words you got whose target you got them
>wrong, not a word was raised against what transpired was coming form
>Eritreans EPLFties and their friends. Do you call this impartial.
>
Haileselassie Girmay wrote in message <6oih5p$lri$1...@heliodor.xara.net>...
YESHI22
> Give you an example Tigray got a donation of hundreds of
>thousands or even close to billions during the famine. It went through,
>inter alia, TPLF (REST) and after seventeen years of bloodshed the TPLF put
>some millions worth of projects in Tigray and the whole Tigray that lost
>the money donated began to receive the beating end as one targeted for
>progress when in fact some projects were put from embezzled wealth of Tigray
>by TPLF to make profit for themselves. How can one say a nation that fought
>for so long is benefiting from TPLF when in fact it was only defended by
>some militia men when invaded. A nation who should have tanks and missiles
>and experienced fighters as its defence exposed to swift occupation, and
>these they call Tigray come out as benefactor from TPLF. The critics has
>lost their head and it is because of their Tigrayan hatred. Anyone who has
>visted Tigray would defend such allegation of Tigray marching in the road of
>progress at a startk speed compared to the rest. Some TPLF businesses have
>mashroomed but an economist can figure out why the TPLF chose Tigray to open
>its teashops and trading trading centres.
Selam Haileselassie,
The silence of Tigreans by not sharing the truth such as in your
example in the past IMHO, contributed more to the "critics of Tigrai"
than the what you called "Tigrean hatred."
This conflict has opened the communication line between Ethiopians
more than ever. If we use it as a lesson, we may be able to avert
other regional divisions by conducting civil discourse. Let us not
all hide under the disguises of Ethnic Liberation Movements burying
our independent views of the issues until a major conflict erupts.
With best regards
Yeshi
Fasil Nega
What Haileselassie wrote under the topic above is pure fiction that
TPLF has been fabricating to hide its looting endeavor. What billions of
dollars was he talking about. What TPLF got was at most hundereds of thousands
of dollars for humaniterian aid.
I fail to understand your message. Are you saying that TPLF is hated because
people like
Haileselassie were not telling the truth. The truth being what TPLF fabricated
and Haileselassie articulated.
Showinf solidarity in time of crisis may be understandable. But Yeshi, you are
bending backward to be friendly.
bfa...@my-dejanews.com
For Haileselassie anything anti TPLF is anti Tigrayan and hence, he labels
them anti Ethiopian or pro Eritrean. This is one of the guys who invited the
the UN and the OAU to conduct the so-called referundum and put the people who
worked hard to the unity of Ethiopia in jail. Now, to save his Tigray and the
tribalist organization, he shouts harder than everybody as if he loves
Ethiopia and the Ethiopians. Everyone knows him, how an old chamelione he is.
Because of his venome some of us including me have resorted to bad words. He
just fits "...bekfat lai kfat::" sosen...@aol.com (SosenaTola) wrote:
> This is one forum that many Ethiopians as well as non-Ethiopians freely
consult
> for news, civilized discourse on matters relevant to our home land. Please
> restraine yourself from making it a forum for exchanging insults. In this
> respect, I found Ato Haileselassies title addressing to "mother Fu--ers"
> unfortunate. Ato Tarik's vendeta against Ato Haileselassie is equally
> unfortunate.
>
> As a follower of this forum, I found Ato Haileselassies cheap shots against
> Koki beneath contempt. In all his postings he has not challenged her views.
> Ato Haileselassie's attempt to portray Koki as anti-Ethiopian is no more than
a
> personal vendeta. Her views are clear to her readers. She had siad time and
> again that our first choice is to work with a reformed TPLF. This is made
> clear in her writings. I don't understand why Ato Haileselassie continues to
> accuse her of selling her service and body to Isayas without substantiating
his
> allegation. For many Ethiopians Koki is as Ethiopian as one can get. Some of
> her views may be contrary to popular opinion. But that does not make her
> anti-Ethiopian. In all her writings Koki has been very critical of EPLF and
> Isayas.
> Her views are different from some of the vocal participants of this forum (eg.
> Yeshi, Mesgena, Belete, Dagmawi, etc) None of thses call her anti-Ethiopian.
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Haileselassie Girmay
carry an article about African/Ethiopia that tells the truth. They sway and
blow with the wind making sure the prevailing wind swept most of its cargo
to the west. Your figure of donation as a couple of hundred thousand is
amazing to hear to say the least , one evening concert in London run by Bob
Geldof had 46 million pounds in its coffer in a matter of few hours most of
which went to REST. Since you are not prepared to learn with open mind on
this issue I wont spent my time. You have to have a mechanism put in place
to loot in the magnitude you wanted us to believe had taken place from the
rest of Ethiopia to build Tigray's progress. The GDP/tax/Revenue of the
Government are known to to the parliament and it is allotted publicly to
different federated regions. Thus Central gov. money cannot be argued is
transferred to Tigray beyond what is allotted to the region. One way that
can be argued that resources have been transferred is by means of trade
engaged in favour of Tigray using the capital TPLF had obtained from the
donations, I refereed earlier on, but then it was the ERitreans who were
mostly doing the transferring and TPLF were only busy setting up some
projects to do such kind of business of transferring
If you do not believe what I say make a trip to Tigray and you will still
find it a dusty place contrary to what you heard, I have not had the
opportunity to visit Tigray/Ethiopia and I cannot be a witness, but I know I
have heard and the dust so strong I can smell it from my living room of the
West. That is not to say no change has not taken place and some people loyal
to TPLF have not grown better off.
SosenaTola wrote in message
<199807151910...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Haileselassie Girmay
the point. TPLF may have been looting Ethiopia. And if they did I am not
surprise. Which ruler in Ethiopia since the introduction of capitalist
economy have save Ethiopia from looting. Haileselassie, The Derg???? But to
confuse TPLF's looting, [if you can back it up by locating the hidden bank,
like the one Taamrat hid, please expose them by all by all
means].WithTigray being the one benefiting you are getting things out of
proportion . As every looter has to have a home base to help the looting,
by a twist of irony Tigray may be used, may have been used as the springing
board for such purpose, just as Shoa/Addis Ababa was used by the rulers of
the past to make themselves richer. But I personally have not accused the
Amharas lot as benefactors of the looting conducted in the past, although I
am aware that elites of the nationalities rulers happen to come were/and
still are often chosen to offices to facilitate the rulers mission.
So I am not fabricating nor articulating fabrication but helping you to
dissociate your mind from slippery thinking.
Please do not underestimate the TPLF/REST organisation it had millions and
millions of dollars even before it reach Addis Ababa. It is the riches
organisation next to the EPLF similar organisation that was collecting money
by sacks in the streets/parks of the cities of the West. Any body who had
witnessed Bologna, A city in Italy gathering of Eritreans in the 70s, 80s
could witnessed as I did money packed not in bags but in burlap sacks and
"Jonia"
Fasil Nega wrote in message
YESHI22
>Date: 7/15/98 12:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <199807151950...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>Yeshi,
>
> What Haileselassie wrote under the topic above is pure fiction that
>TPLF has been fabricating to hide its looting endeavor. What billions of
>dollars was he talking about. What TPLF got was at most hundereds of
>thousands of dollars for humaniterian aid.
I am not sure to what extent but, I've heard similar explanations in the
past where E/TPLF is accused of making big business out of
Humanitarian aid. They were running businesses with hundreds of
trucks in the region, etc. So, Haileselassie has a point there. You may
argue that TPLF added a huge amount to the pot, etc. I've no objection
there however, today's TPLF stand on Ethiopia is a big change of
attitude, I don't see them going back to their sectarian politics and
continue to play a major role in the country.
>I fail to understand your message. Are you saying that TPLF is hated >because
people like
>Haileselassie were not telling the truth. The truth being what TPLF
>fabricated and Haileselassie articulated.
The fact that Haileselassie and others are coming to the open and
stating their opinion on the issues has made sectarian politicians to
have no future in our country.
>Showinf solidarity in time of crisis may be understandable. But Yeshi, >you
are bending backward to be friendly.
I am only being supportive of attitudes beyond narrow ethnic enclave.
Haileselassie not only apologized for his comments on Koki but, has
helped us see the other side of the story. That, I think is worth being
friendly to the individual.
Sincerely,
Yeshi
abugeda
It is well and good that you are explaining to us that there has not been
massive transfer of national assets to Tigrai. Personally, I think significant
asset transfer does take place and has taken place in many ways. This can be
actual appropriation of existing resources. As an example, I can tell you that
I was told by a hospital staffmembers at one of the Addis hospitals who was told
to go home early, to come back the next morning to find whole wards missing
equipment and facilities. This happened right after May 1991, so one never
knows if the looters were the EPLF or TPLF. Another method the TPLF uses is the
direction of or a monopoly on access to foreign investment or aid to Tigrai.
One can use as examples the fact that TPLF attached institutions like REST and
EFFORT have clearly preferential access to international financial and aid
institutions that no other "NGO's" have.
Be that as it may, you and I, as private citizens, (I think) need not be
throwing conjectures at each other. The point that is being lost here is that,
if the TPLF government was inclusive and transparent, these sorts of questions
would not have to be raised. It is the very nature of the TPLF administration
that breeds mistrust in anything it does. As Ethiopians, we should feel that we
can trust our government to be able to open it's records and tell us the
truth. It must be remembered that politics is primarily about perception.
Thus as long as the perception exists that the TPLF is transferring national
assets, then the political reality is that TPLF IS transferring national
assets. Period.
The sad thing is, any democratic Ethiopian government would have responded to
the needs of Tigray, and quite a bit of the investments that is now flowing into
Tigrai may still have found it's way there. After all, money finds a way where
it can maximize it's return, and if these factories, etc.. are located where
they make the best economic sense, they would be there. And this could have
been done without any resentment against Tigrayans.
To those EPLF parrots who might take this as singing to their tunes, I just want
to say that every Ethiopian knows that the master looters are the EPLF. As long
as the TPLF was holding the gravy train, the pig called EPLF sucked on it into a
stupor.
So much so that it lost it's mind. Even those who hate the TPLF see it's
divorce from the EPLF as THE monumental achievement of this war. There is
nothing that the EPLF has brought for Ethiopia, and it only promises worse. If
you jerks believe that Ethiopians will abandon Tigrayans to the jackals such as
yourselves who have no inkling of human decency, then you are dreaming.
Tigrayans are people and comparing them to animals etc.. only shows what evil
lurks in your hearts.
ANOTHER AGAMIE,
abugeda
Fasil Nega
says Ato Haileselassie. This must be the most sucessful concert in the history
of the world. Jsut simple artimethic says if one pound = 1.5 US$ and 100,000
attended this wonderful event, each person must have paid us$ 690 to attend
this wonderful concert that Haileselassie talks about. Most of it went to REST
suggests Haileselassie.
Haileselassie can you refer us to any independent international paper that
gives us this figures.
Teka AbaMacha
This posting of yours is the inquiry of a 'restless' soul, courageous
and bold, frank and forthright, promising and challenging; simply put,
it is Excellent from beginning to END.
Regards,
Teka AbaMacha
+++++++++ abugeda wrote: ++++++++++++++++++
Selam Hailesellasie,
ANOTHER AGAMIE,
abugeda
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dahlak Reality Hanish
>To those EPLF parrots who might take this as singing to their tunes, I just
>want to say that every Ethiopian knows that the master looters are the EPLF.
Sherlock Holmes said in solving a crime:
"When you eliminate all suspects, those remaining
however how improbable, are the criminals." something to that line.
So don't blame us post-E/TPLF. And while you are at it,
draw the line on the ground, so that we will stay on
our side, and you yours... then we can be on our own....
>As long as the TPLF was holding the gravy train, the pig called EPLF sucked
>on it into a stupor. So much so that it lost it's mind. Even those who hate
>the TPLF see it's divorce from the EPLF as THE monumental achievement of
>this war.
I hope you'll have a nice marrige with TPLF after our divorce.
Only time will tell how your honeymoon lasts. I wish you with
all my heart--happiness and marital bliss.
>There is nothing that the EPLF has brought for Ethiopia, and it only
>promises worse. If you jerks believe that Ethiopians will abandon
>Tigrayans to the jackals such as yourselves who have no inkling of human
>decency, then you are dreaming.
((((Delete)))
>ANOTHER AGAMIE,
>abugeda
Decendant of Agame(?)/or Agame's Brother
~R
Haileselassie Girmay
,went
as fa as as and well over 100 million Starling and the maverick Bob Geldof
was knighted as
Sir Bob Geldof thereafter by the English Establishment The fund raised is
known the world over to any child born yesterday, the at least in the UK
and possibly in Tigray, and they can tell you who Bob Geldof is.
I f children born yeasterdaay [exgaggeration mine] are awre of the role of
Bob, Fasil are you a political
child born this mid-night or a troglodyte in an unaccessable depth
of the womb of the earth kept unaware?.
The Bob Geldof is a small part of thestory. The fact of the matter is that
TPLF and EPLF/OLF have finanical (shares in
companies) and real assets through out the world , envitably making more
money from their wealth just like anybody would have done with such
magnitude of money . How and when they got this money from different corners
of the world is a differnt matter but it is not surprising or
wrong to engage in money making processes once you have the capital to do
so, for it is in the logics of money economy to do so unless one chooses to
faace ones own dimaisein fanancial terms. Any economist will attest to the
fact.
I am not, have never been part of the TPLF and therefore cannot tell
internal affairs but I do believe there should be a time when REST/TPLF
should come clean and tell Ethiopians how it had managed to get and how it
is being used to war off fear and suspicion among Ethiopians.
Fasil Nega wrote in message
<199807160435...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
men...@my-dejanews.com
"Haileselassie Girmay" <sag...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Thank you for the measured response. But I do feel, and it does not mean it
> is you, but those men, including women critics, have a mindset that always
> point a fingure that any interaction between man and a woman has to be only
> in sexual sense. As I said whether it was bodily service oras you have now
> put it, sell of flesh , I meant serving in psychical presence as a soldier
> to the Army of what I regard mas an aggressor. I do not attack people
> with different views , in fact I am all for people to have differing views.
> What I do not like is characterisation of a whole lot of people and and bash
> them in one basket as in the words of the critics for example, tribalist,
> thousands or even close to billions during the famine. It went through,
> inter alia, TPLF (REST) and after seventeen years of bloodshed the TPLF put
> some millions worth of projects in Tigray and the whole Tigray that lost
> the money donated began to receive the beating end as one targeted for
> progress when in fact some projects were put from embezzled wealth of Tigray
> by TPLF to make profit for themselves. How can one say a nation that fought
> for so long is benefiting from TPLF when in fact it was only defended by
> some militia men when invaded. A nation who should have tanks and missiles
> and experienced fighters as its defence exposed to swift occupation, and
> these they call Tigray come out as benefactor from TPLF. The critics has
You've got it wrong Haile. If Ethiopia has got any generals they are
Tigreans. If Ethiopia has got any jets, missiles, name any sophisticated
weopon, it is of the TPLF. Tigray was defended only by militias becuase TPLF
didn't expect any threat from Shabiya and had all its servicemen in the
capital, where there is a real threat for its power grip. It may apear to you
racism when people bash Tigreans but almost all Tigreans have rallied
behind the plunderer TPLF and people are left with no choice but to call them
all robbers because it is a fact.
Mengesha
> lost their head and it is because of their Tigrayan hatred. Anyone who has
> visted Tigray would defend such allegation of Tigray marching in the road of
> progress at a startk speed compared to the rest. Some TPLF businesses have
> mashroomed but an economist can figure out why the TPLF chose Tigray to open
> its teashops and trading trading centres.
>
> Fasil Nega wrote in
> message<199807151407...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> >Ato HaileSelassie wrote:
> >
> >:Few point that needs to be clarified. Unless :you wanted it to sound
> >:egregious enough to rally support against me, :I have never said KOKi is a
> >:prostitute, if at all I have mentioned the :words, bodily service, I meant
> >:it those who intend to serve as foot soldiers :posed by the side of
> Isayase
> >:to fight against Ethiopians.
> >
> >What you said was not bodily service You said selling her flesh. This in my
> >opinion and in the opinion of many others implies prostitution.
> >
> >:The word mother-fuckers was not also :intended to KOki. Again you are
> >:twisting and rending the context to fit your :hate campaign against me.
> The
> >:woman has not engaged herself in a debate :with me and I know that much of
> >:AC code of debate not to talk to a phantom, :who is not around. It was not
> >:even intended against Tarik who recited :verses after verse of insult
> >:referring to me. Mother fucker was intended :for the Hawks living at the
> edge
> >:of this forum and calling me Agame
> >
> >In rereading your posting I now believe the reference was not to Koki. I
> >apologize for my error. I have nothing against you. What I don't like is
> your
> >personal attack of those who do not share your views.
> >
> >
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
BEN GABRIEL
a hugely succesful concert to raise money for the famine in Ethiopia.
Are you saying that the TPLF used this money for rebuilding Tigray? Or
for their war efforts? How did they get their hands on money slated for
humanitarian purposes?
Haileselasie.. I await your reply.
Cheers.. :)
Benny G.
> Fasil Nega wrote in message
Haileselassie Girmay
point fund given by Band Aid, etc to help allivate the famine which did not
only go to do the job intended but also there was enough sruplus, albeit
denied to the victims that the REST brough with it when it Officially
entered TIGRay/Ethiopia. In a nut shell whatever poject TPLF has set in
TIGray was largely done by the money it belonged to the people of Tigray
donated but , if you r my remeber my earlier discussions of
misappropraited, in the first place.
BEN GABRIEL wrote in message <35AE6DD9...@home.com>...
Araya Amsalu
Perhaps we all should set this topic aside as it is not the time for such an
argument.
But when you expect an open mind from the other side, you need to approach the
table with your mind open. You seem to be locked in your imagination of
Tigray's old state you can "smell the dust from your living room of theWest."
> You have to have a mechanism put in place
> to loot in the magnitude you wanted us to believe had taken place from the
> rest of Ethiopia to build Tigray's progress.
>
There are two such mechanisms EFFORT-REST and the Federal goverment. Please see
explanation below.
> The GDP/tax/Revenue of theGovernment are known to to the parliament and it is allotted publicly to
> different federated regions. Thus Central gov. money cannot be argued is
> transferred to Tigray beyond what is allotted to the region.
>
I advise you to get a copy of the yearly capital and administrative budget
allocation from the central goverment to the regions for the last few years.
(Ask Ato Dawit Yohannes to post that on Pol.Ethiopia) I remember Dagmawi posted
last years allocation here. It revealed per capita the Federal goverment spends
more than 3.5 times on each person in Tigray comapred to each person in the
Amhara, Oromo and Southern States. Addis Ababa is the only state that
subsidizes the Federal Government. On the Capital budgets it was very skewed
towards Tigray though I do not remember the
number. But the original numbers are misleading, as the actual numbers on
capital budget are drastically different because of the goverment's policy of
allowing Regions that utilize their budget by the second half to claim unused
Capital budget from other states.
One ironic incident is the following. TPLF scrapped the project to build an
80,000 person stadium in Addis Ababa saying that it is not apriority. Few
months ago Tigray State revealed it is going to build an 80,000 person stadium
in Mekelle. Mind you Addis subsidizes the Federal government and is the capital
of Ethiopia.
> One way that
> can be argued that resources have been transferred is by means of trade
> engaged in favour of Tigray using the capital TPLF had obtained from the
> donations, I refereed earlier on, but then it was the ERitreans who were
> mostly doing the transferring and TPLF were only busy setting up some
> projects to do such kind of business of transferring
EFFORT set up many corporations including those that are building the
industries in Tigray. EFFORT was created by REST which is a wingof TPLF. These
corporations got many governemnt industries etc for small change-case in point
Mega corporation- that is monopolizing the Media/publishing industry, bought
Kuraz for a change, got the equipment of Admas Productions(a WPE Media Outfit)
for free. Assets other than REST's were directly transferred to EFFORT-example
government vehicles taken by TPLF from all over Northern Ethiopia before May
27, 1991 were considered war booty. Some of those were auctioned and some were
taken to Tigray.
What was more devastating was TPLF's acting as a pipeline to EPLF's looting.
This conflict has put an end to it. (I think it was COEDF that titled its press
release on the current conflict "lEboch yemiTalut siserqu sayhon yeserequtn
sikafelu new" which tralslates "thieves fight not while stealing but while they
are dividing the loot!!" )
I would like to caution all Ethiopians not to allow such passionate issues as
the issue of resource allocation to defocus us from the defense of the
soverginity and territorial integrity of our motherland. We should focus on
and support the defense effort while asserting the need for a national
reconciliation. The TPLF should realize the only way to safeguard a united
front against aggression is by initiating the process of national reconcilition
to put back in track the democratic process that was derailed by its
heavyhanded policies. All pertinent issues should be out on the table in
this process. Releasing prominent leaders of political parties, trade unions
and journalists of the free press will be a step in the right direction.
We shall build a united democratic Ethiopia!
Araya Amsalu,
Araya....@SDRC.com
Ohnone
> If Ethiopia has got any generals they are
> Tigreans. If Ethiopia has got any jets, missiles, name any sophisticated
> weopon, it is of the TPLF. Tigray was defended only by militias becuase TPLF
> didn't expect any threat from Shabiya and had all its servicemen in the
> capital, where there is a real threat for its power grip. It may apear to you
> racism when people bash Tigreans but almost all Tigreans have rallied
> behind the plunderer TPLF and people are left with no choice but to call them
> all robbers because it is a fact.
>
> Mengesha
That is a wonderful analysis of the current situation in
Ethiopia. It also explains why TPLF do not want a peaceful
solution of the border dispute in what is today Eritrea-Tigray
border.
At this time I believe what the Tigray people need is peace.
But, it is also understandable and difficult to isolate Tigreans from
TPLF's administration. In other words, the people of Tigray, as they have
been doing, will keep following TPLF and neither you nor any power will
stop them from doing so, atleast for some period of time in the future.
On the other hand, since TPLF knows this, it will keep using the Tigray
people for its clear agenda. That is exactly what had happened in Germany
arround 1945, during the time of Hitler. Currently, people are
deliberately made to concentrate at the war with Eritrea. The reality is,
there was already a war from the other three corners(south,
East,
West) of Ethiopia, all because they can not tolerate anymore TPLF
and Meles' unwavering dedication to
build
tigray at the expense of their people treasure and money. Few weeks ago,
Eritrea's Isayas had been blamed as the agressor,
since he wanted to take on Yemen, Sudan, Djibuti then Ethiopia.
If that is the criterion to evaluate agression, I see no difference
between Meles and Isayas at that time, considering where Ethiopia is
today(all out war in the four corners). Infact, since Isayas is already
calling for a peaceful solution and
since Meles is out for war in all the four corners, he is already losing
and is the agressor..
d.
p.s. I know this will annoy Belete Muturo, but
calling for war is rather not a solution.
I am not for a war like he is. Let there be a peaceful solution.
There are many options for a peaceful agreement and commen development
without one parasiting on the other.
An iM
Haileselassie Girmay kirjutas neljapΓ€ev, 16. juuli 1998 kl 10:00:00 UTC+3: