VIVA ESPERANTO ? We Love Esperanto as second language for all?
Lee Lewis
Perdonu min, sed mi deziras dauxri tio cxi konversacion angle (ekde gxi estis komencata tiel). Kaj mian E-on (miopinie) ne estas suficxe flua.
___________
Regarding "Chinese." I have a problem with the reference to the language "Chinese." Saying one speaks Chinese is like saying one speaks European. There are at least four major languages in China; off the top of my head I can think of Mandarin, Cantonese, Pekinese and Hakaa. They are VERY different from one another. Just the other day I made the mistake of speaking Mandarin to this lady and she responded in English, "I don't speak that." Turns out she spoke Cantonese... well, I learned a new word at least!
Regarding Hindi and Spanish as the fastest grown languagues. That agrees with what I have seen/heard/experienced/read. I think that the dominance of English is lessening. I do not view it good or bad... just a trend and a fact.
I personally don't like to refer to E-o as a "second" language, but as an "auxilliary" language. The conotation is different - less hierarchical - and I feel, more accurate.
> That's exactly what I thought when I saw this. It's not English, but as a
> Creole or Pidgin it's great : I can understand it !
This bothers me. First, from the dictionary...
pidg·in (pîj¹en) noun
A simplified form of speech that is usually a mixture of two or more languages, has a rudimentary grammar and vocabulary, is used for communication between groups speaking different languages, and is not spoken as a first or native language.
cre·o·lized language (krê¹e-lìzd´) noun
A language derived from a pidgin but more complex in grammar and vocabulary than the ancestral pidgin because it has become the native tongue of a community.
Pidgin is definitely out. Though E-o *is* a mixture of "two or more languages," its grammar and vocabulary are fully developed. Tarzan saying, "Me Tarzan, you Jane!" is pidgin.
Creole is also wrong since E-o did not evolve from a pidgin (as referenced above).
"Artificial" is often used inaccurately to describe E-o, but this is wrong as well. An "artificial language" by its very nature has no etymology. E-o is a "derived" language, having roots in Latin and other indo-european languages.
It bothers me that even my dictionary has this Esperanto defined as artificial...
Es·pe·ran·to (ès´pe-ràn¹to, -rän¹-) noun
An artificial international language with a vocabulary based on word roots common to many European languages and a regularized system of inflection.
Yet the same dictionary contradicts itself with the word "derive" ...
de·rive (dî-rìv¹) verb
de·rived, de·riv·ing, de·rives verb, transitive
1. To obtain or receive from a source.
2. To arrive at by reasoning; deduce or infer: derive a conclusion from facts.
3. To trace the origin or development of (a word).
4. Chemistry. To produce or obtain (a compound) from another substance by chemical reaction.
To refer E-o to pidgin/creole indicates only a superficial understanding of the language. It is an amazingly flexible and in-depth language. Anything that one can say in one's native language can be said in Esperanto; but not everything that one can say in E-o can be said (correctly) in one's native languague! Let me see if I can think of an example (it will probably be a poor one... maybe someone else can help out here).
In E-o I might say "Angle parolanta..." which literally means "Englishly speaking..." This is not correct English, but might be correct in another language. I would have to say "Speaking English..." Yet in E-o I could also correctly say "Parolanta Anglo..." which is literally "Speaking English..." E-o was intentionally designed to be flexible, adaptable and above all else REGULAR. It is 100% regular, and as a result it is 3 to 4 times easier/faster to learn that any other national or ethnic language (this has been proven/documented).
Well, I've rambled on long enough. Hope I didn't step on any toes or offend in any way; but though I am not as fluent in E-o as I would like to be, I have been its staunch supporter for over 15 years.
Ah! Mi tre suficxa vagparolis!
Mis esperas ke mi ofendis neniu, aux sxtupi sur ies peidfingrojn! Kvankam mi ne estas komplete flua parolanta la E-on, mi estas fidela subtenanto de la lingvo por pli ol 15 jaroj.
_______________________________________________________________
Lee Lewis
City of Orlando, CSSA-II Urbo de Orlando, Florido, Usono
Computer Operations -- Help Desk Komputila Operacejo -- HelpCentro
<lle...@ci.orlando.fl.us>
IntraNet Help Desk Page... Intra-reto HelpCentro Pagxo...
<http://cityintra/intranet/helpdesk>
Visit Orlando's Home Page.. Vizitu la Hejmpagxon de Orlando...
<http://www.ci.orlando.fl.us>
Visit my personal Star Trek/ Vizitu mian propran Star Trek/
Klingon Oriented web page at... Tlingana retpagxo cxe...
<http://www.Geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1065>
Alternate e-mail: Alterna e-posxto:
<kp...@geocities.com>
Need Web Page design help? Cxu bezonas helpon kun retpagxa desegnado?
Meet Jack at... Renkontu Jack cxe...
<http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/1048/>
For Esperanto Info... Por E-a informo...
<http://www.webcom.com/~donh/esperanto.html>
----------
> From: Manuel M Campagna <ah...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA>
> To: esper...@netcom.com
> Subject: Re: VIVA ESPERANTO ? We Love Esperanto as second language for all?
> Date: Saturday, December 20, 1997 8:58 AM
>
>
> In Article 46439 "Terry Heath" (opus400...@opus400.com) recently typed :
>
>
> >> Now we know that no all people speaks English ,which are
> >> spoken by only
> >> 10% of World populations. Chineese are spoken by the 38% of World
> >> Populations.
> >> As we say which language is spoken the most we must use Chineese .
> > Yes, but if you take people's second language and add it to their mother
> > tongue, English is more widely spoken than any other language.
> >> Esperanto is easy langauge neutral , no eastern, no western
> > ... no one speaking it.
> > What language are you using now ? Why don't you try Esperanto or Chinese ?
>
> That's exactly what I thought when I saw this. It's not English, but as a
> Creole or Pidgin it's great : I can understand it !
>
> However, according to The World Almanac, Chinese is still the most spoken
> language in the world when you include second-language users (Chinese is a
> relatively widespread second language). As a mother tongue, Chinese is
> spoken by 15% of the world population (and that includes Cantonese, Amoy,
> Wu, and all the other 80 or so forms officially called "dialects" by the
> Chinese government but considered by most linguists as distinct
> languages). Chinese is threatened in its position _not_ by English, but by
> Hindi-Urdu (#2 mother tongue) and Spanish (#3 mother tongue) as well as by
> ascending Asian languages such as Malay-Indonesian and Arabic. By
> comparison the proportion of speakers of English as a mother tongue is
> still falling, now at around 6% of the world.
>
> Still according to The World Almanac, Esperanto is spoken by 2 million
> people in the world -- and they say they reach that number using the same
> method as for other languages. Esperanto is known to be used by people in
> at least 120 countries -- how many languages can boast that ?
>
> Manuel
>
> .
> Manuel-M. CAMPAGNA . . . . 1 613 789 21 11
> survey interviewer . . Ottawa ON Canada
> translator (En/It/Eo -> Fr) . . ah...@freenet.carleton.ca
Simon Payne
En artikolo <1997123120...@gatekeeper.ci. orlando.fl.us>
skribis
lle...@ci.orlando.fl.us (Lee Lewis) jene:
> >Perdonu min, sed mi deziras =
> dauxri tio cxi konversacion angle (ekde gxi estis komencata tiel). Kaj
> = mian E-on (miopinie) ne estas suficxe flua.
Mi tute ne pardonas. Do bonvolu uzu Esperanton, temas ja pri Esperanta
forumo.
Simono
--
TTT:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/simono/
Retposxto:
1001...@compuserve.com
PILCH Hartmut
>Regarding "Chinese." I have a problem with the reference to the language
>"Chinese." Saying one speaks Chinese is like saying one speaks European.
>There are at least four major languages in China; off the top of my head I
>can think of Mandarin, Cantonese, Pekinese and Hakaa. They are VERY
>different from one another. Just the other day I made the mistake of
Oni povas skribi chinlingvan tekston legeblan en chiuj chinaj
dialektoj. Chu vi povus skribi tekston legeblan ech en du tre proksimaj
europaj lingvoj kiel germanlingvo kaj nederlingvo?
>speaking Mandarin to this lady and she responded in English, "I don't speak
>that." Turns out she spoke Cantonese... well, I learned a new word at
>least!
Maybe she just pretended. Mi konas strangajn Chinojn kiuj parolas iom
(ne tre bone) angle kaj tuj misionadas por anglolingvo, rifuzante ech
paroli Chinlingvon kun Chinuloj. Singapura shtatestro Li Guangyao
(Lee Kuanyew) angligis la landon kiam nur anglolingvo shajnis profita
kaj tuj rechinigis ghin kiam ankaw chinlingvo ekshajnis profita (pro
la shancoj oferitaj de cheflanda Chinio). Multaj chinuloj (kaj ne nur
chinuloj) ghis nun pensas ke paroli chinlingve estas signo de malalta
statuso, speciale en kantonparolanta brita kolonejo Hongkongo.
Aliflanke multaj cheflandaj Chinuloj estas nomataj "nordaj moshtuloj"
(bei3 da4ren2) fare de la kantonlingvanoj char ili aroge pensas ke chiuj
Hongkonganoj devas paroli pekinlingvon, kiun fakte komprenas pli ol
90% de la Chinuloj.
+=========================================================================+
|PILCH Hartmut <p...@a2e.de> PEI2 , Han2mu4 |
|MA phil., shtatekzaminita tradukisto por la =||= ,---, | /__ |
|Germana, Japana kaj China (inkl. Kantona) lingvoj -||- ## /+-/ / |
|Adr: DE 80636 [Muenchen] Blutenburgstr 17 -*-- ---- | x |
|Tel: -49-89-1278960-8, fax -9, http://www.a2e.de /|\* / .\ /| / \ |
|ftp://ftp.lrz-muenchen.de/pub/culture/ostasien / \ / | \ |
+=========================================================================+
--
+=========================================================================+
|PILCH Hartmut <p...@a2e.de> PEI2 , Han2mu4 |
|MA phil., shtatekzaminita tradukisto por la =||= ,---, | /__ |
|Germana, Japana kaj China (inkl. Kantona) lingvoj -||- ## /+-/ / |
Lee Lewis
Avizon recevis, komprenis kaj savis por futura aludo.
Amike,
Lee Lewis
> > Perdonu min, sed mi deziras dauxri tio cxi
> > konversacion angle (ekde gxi estis komencata
> > tiel). Kaj mian E-on (miopinie) ne estas suficxe flua.
GuntersDX
Esperanto ne estas mi dua lingvo. La lingvo hispano estas mi dua lingvo.
Esperanto estas mi kvara lingvo kaj mi estas tamen lernanto.
Tim
Martin Wilke
On 4 Jan 1998 02:47:40 GMT, gunt...@aol.com (GuntersDX) wrote:
>Esperanto ne estas mi dua lingvo. La lingvo hispano estas mi dua lingvo.
>Esperanto estas mi kvara lingvo kaj mi estas tamen lernanto.
Esperanto estas mi sepa lingvo.
Magnulus
Esperanto estas mi kvara aux tria lingvo. Mi lernis la esperanton poste la
hispana.