The Esperanto congress in Veszprem (Hungary)/La Esperanta kongreso en Veszprem (Hungario)
Hans Kamp
The last week I had been at an international youth congress where Esperanto
is spoken. I feel much less shy than outside the congress. I know a pretty
lot of people there, and I feel being accepted. On that congress I tend to
make less difference between men and women. I have met 2 Bulgarian women
there, but with them I spoke English because they were Esperanto-beginners.
I helped them with using the Internet and with the Esperanto grammar. I know
it is strange, but I find two women less threatening than one woman. One of
them is pretty attractive, although I think that she is too young for me
(she is 18 years old). Although less shy, I don't tend to show a woman that
I have feelings for her, because I still shame for it. I wouldn't know how
she would react to it. So, I just don't show them. At the end of the
congress week we took some photographs from each other, and we exchanged
addresses. I think they like me, but I am still not sure. We often greet
each other.
I wish I were less shy and feel more accepted outside the congress... :-(
----------
Esperanto:
La lasta semajno mi estis che internacia junulara kongreso, kie oni parolas
Esperante. Mi sentas min multe malpli singhena ol ekster la kongreso. Mi
konas sufiche multajn homojn tie, kaj mi sentas min akceptata. Che tiu
kongreso mi faras malpli da diferenco inter viroj kaj virinoj. Mi renkontus
2 bulgarajn virinojn tie, sed mi parolis angle kun ili, char ili estis
komencantoj. Mi helpis ilin uzi Internet kaj pri la Esperanta gramatiko. Mi
opinias, ke estas strange, sed mi trovas du virinojn malpli minacaj ol unu.
Unu el ili estas sufiche alloga, kvankam mi pensas ke she tro juna por mi
(shi estas 18-jara). Kvankam malpli singhena, mi ne montras al virino, ke mi
havas enamighajn sentojn relate al shi, char mi chiam hontas pro tio. Mi ne
scius, kiel shi reagus al tio. Do, mi simple ne montras ilin. Che la fino de
la kongresa semajno, ni iomete fotis unu la aliajn, kaj ni intershanghas
adresojn. Mi pensas, ke ili shatas min.
Mi nur dezirus ke mi estus malpli singhena kaj sentus pli akceptata ekster
la kongreso :-(
Hans Kamp.
scroker
feelings to the group, but it sounds like you need a bit of confidence. You
need to have confidence in yourself for others to like you. It is usually
the men that are too confident and snobby that are the most insecure, not
the shy ones!! I know this for a fact because I am a hairdresser and they
are the ones that make sure every hair is in place and have to ask you a
million times if they look good!!! If you have a female hairdresser, you can
practice kidding around with her. Alot of times that is a good ice breaker
for being shy around women. The more you flirt, the more comfortable you
will feel around women.. Sometimes the guys at the hair salon would get a
little out of hand with rude and obscene comments , but I would always tell
them if their behavior was inappropriate or not..
Getting back to the girl that you found attractive, you should write her a
letter expressing your feelings that you would like to get to know her
better and take her out to dinner or somewhere.. It seems harmless enough
and doesn't sound like you are being too pushy.. You can even tell her to
call you if she is interested in going out to dinner... This way you don't
have to rely on a returned letter... Hope things work out!!! Chrissy-NJ
Hans Kamp <hans...@introweb.nl> wrote in message
news:93490933...@tbird.introweb.nl...
Hans Kamp
scroker <scr...@csionline.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
0nNu3.3165$1B5.2...@monger.newsread.com...
> Hans, You don't seem very shy in expressing
your
> feelings to the group, but it sounds like you need a bit of confidence.
You
> need to have confidence in yourself for others to like you. It is usually
> the men that are too confident and snobby that are the most insecure, not
> the shy ones!!
That is true, but I am shy if I don't feel security. In this newsgroup there
is security, and in dancings there is a lack of it. Feeling secure decreases
shyness.
> I know this for a fact because I am a hairdresser and they
> are the ones that make sure every hair is in place and have to ask you a
> million times if they look good!!! If you have a female hairdresser, you
can
> practice kidding around with her.
Yes, I have a female one. Sometimes a male dresses my hair, when all female
hairdressers are busy. And I do talk about lot of stuff. Sometimes I am
serious and sometimes I make jokes. Sometimes going out is also discussed,
and getting a girl-friend: "Do you have a girl-friend?" When I say no, they
ask: "Don't you want to have one?"
> Alot of times that is a good ice breaker
> for being shy around women. The more you flirt, the more comfortable you
> will feel around women..
I am not a good flirter. Flirting means: showing interest in a subtle way.
And girls taught me: don't ever show interest in us, otherwise you will be
our victim. I am almost 33 years old (tomorrow (20th of August) I have my
birthday) and even the staff of my group home - most of them are females
between 20 and 30 years old - doesn't know how to teach me that, and many of
them have a boy-friend. There is something definitely wrong about sexual
education in the Netherlands...
> Sometimes the guys at the hair salon would get a
> little out of hand with rude and obscene comments , but I would always
tell
> them if their behavior was inappropriate or not..
Of course... you can throw them out.
> Getting back to the girl that you found attractive, you should write her a
> letter expressing your feelings that you would like to get to know her
> better and take her out to dinner or somewhere..
Writing a letter wouldn't be that big problem, but the problem is that she
lives in Bulgaria and I live in the Netherlands. It would be a good idea to
invite her, but during the congress I didn't dare to invite her to eat in a
restaurant in Veszprem, or I should invite also her girl-friend. Then it is
easier to hide my sexual interest in her, and I don't discriminate her
girl-friend. By the way, I don't know how different Bulgarian women would
react from Dutch women. I even try to get the idea of the differences
between Dutch women and women of the United States.
> It seems harmless enough
> and doesn't sound like you are being too pushy.. You can even tell her to
> call you if she is interested in going out to dinner... This way you don't
> have to rely on a returned letter... Hope things work out!!! Chrissy-NJ
It would be a good idea if she and I would live in the same country.
Hans Kamp.
Bakha Olimpo
scroker
computer, you can keep in touch that way. I just found out that some
(Libraries that have computers in them) , you can get your own mailbox just
like the one you have for your computer, and she could get the letters
printed out at the Library for a small fee of sometimes 10cents per page..
That is one way to get to know her without spending alot of money on
visiting her country.. Then if things work out on computer talking, then you
might want to visit her country or move there.. After all, I live in the
United States, and we are in touch with the Autism group... You should call
her and ask if you could write letters to get to know her better( like what
is her favorite things that she likes and her hobbies).. It's worth a try..
But to be honest, a long distance relationship takes alot of effort and
most of all trust.. I know that long distance relationships don't always
work because I dated a guy that moved away and he didn't trust me , but he
was the one that cheated on me with another woman... I on the other hand
never cheated on him, so it was hard for me to trust other people after
that.. Good Luck !! Chrissy-NJ.
Hans Kamp <hans...@introweb.nl> wrote in message
news:93506021...@tbird.introweb.nl...
Winifred Ellsworth, RN
Felichan Nasktagon! (unu tago malfrue)
>> Writing a letter wouldn't be that big problem, but the problem is that she
>> lives in Bulgaria and I live in the Netherlands.
Mi loghas sudokcidente en Usono. Antauh du kaj duono jaroj mi vizitis
viro en Bulgario
kiun mi estis ege interesita. Fakte, pro tio mi lernis Esperanto. NL is not
as far away as Arizona from BG.
Let me just tell you that my experience of Bulgarians is that they are very
welcoming
and kind people.
>> girl-friend. By the way, I don't know how different Bulgarian women would
>> react from Dutch women. I even try to get the idea of the differences
>> between Dutch women and women of the United States.
I think they may be or probably are more proper in behavior and have not
been exposed to as much.
They are definitely interested in the world around them. Don't forget
there is a
terrible crisis and the leva is not strong at all. If you all end up
liking each other a lot,
she may be interested in coming to NL. Many BG's are desperately wanting
to get out of there,
only because of the poorness the country suffers at this time.
Please don't agonize too much about your shyness. I can tell you that it
is charming
and speaking for myself, I am usually attracted to the shy ones.
Elkore,
Winnie
"ne gravas kion mi jam atingis, gravas kion mi atingas nune" -Winnie
"Kapablo estas sia propra motivo" -David Wolff
Esperanto, la amikema lingvo por ni
Elkore de Winnie <night...@theriver.com>
Nenad Aliiç - urbejia esperantparolanto
skribis :
> Hans, Even if this girl you are interested in has a
>computer, you can keep in touch that way. I just found out that some
humans aren't only mental existing beings like angels ;
humans have a body and you can't satisfact another bodies needs
by e-mail .
if we all had no body we all would be a little happier .
homoj ne estas nur mense ekzistantaj uloj kiel angxeloj ;
homoj havas korpon kaj oni ne povas satigi bezonojn de alia korpo
per retposxto .
Hans Kamp
"Winifred Ellsworth, RN" <night...@theriver.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
3.0.1.16.1999082...@theriver.com...
> Hans,
> Felichan Nasktagon! (unu tago malfrue)
>
> >> Writing a letter wouldn't be that big problem, but the problem is that
she
> >> lives in Bulgaria and I live in the Netherlands.
> Mi loghas sudokcidente en Usono. Antauh du kaj duono jaroj mi vizitis
> viro en Bulgario
> kiun mi estis ege interesita. Fakte, pro tio mi lernis Esperanto. NL is
not
> as far away as Arizona from BG.
> Let me just tell you that my experience of Bulgarians is that they are
very
> welcoming
> and kind people.
Indeed. The same experience I had with the two Bulgarian women at the
congress in Veszprem.
> >> girl-friend. By the way, I don't know how different Bulgarian women
would
> >> react from Dutch women. I even try to get the idea of the differences
> >> between Dutch women and women of the United States.
> I think they may be or probably are more proper in behavior and have not
> been exposed to as much.
> They are definitely interested in the world around them. Don't forget
> there is a
> terrible crisis and the leva is not strong at all.
That is definitely true, because I also visited the IJK in Vraca, in
Bulgaria. The biggest problem - especially outside the congress - is the
language problem. I like the Bulgarian Esperantists, but the Loka Kongresa
Komitato has a bad organization.
> If you all end up
> liking each other a lot,
> she may be interested in coming to NL. Many BG's are desperately wanting
> to get out of there,
> only because of the poorness the country suffers at this time.
Indeed. In the past many East European women approached me, but because of
my youth - also of my autism - I thought that they were just teasing or
bullying me.
> Please don't agonize too much about your shyness. I can tell you that it
> is charming
> and speaking for myself, I am usually attracted to the shy ones.
But shyness is a problem for the people that are shy. Therefore
news:alt.support.shyness exists. Maybe women are attracted to shy men, but
generally they are not attracted to autistics, even when they say that they
are interested in me. In the past I rejected many girls and women. Now I
regret that.
Hans Kamp.
Bloody Viking
: The last week I had been at an international youth congress where Esperanto
: is spoken. I feel much less shy than outside the congress. I know a pretty
: lot of people there, and I feel being accepted. On that congress I tend to
: make less difference between men and women. I have met 2 Bulgarian women
: there, but with them I spoke English because they were Esperanto-beginners.
Sounds like me and intentional accent use! :) If you feel less shy being
at the Esperanto meets, go for it. You probably feel less shy becuse you
know there's no native users and as a result, imperfection is acceptable.
It's like when I use an accent around native users, when they know I'm not
a native user myself. I simply have a good accent, but not perfect.
Too bad for me that Esperanto doesn't have any cool properties while
naturally-occuring languages do. A language with a cool attribute that
comes to mind is svenska. (Swedish) This language is useful for global
warming -related real estate investment. The accent is useful for that
too, even without the language. Old Norse would be good for the SCA types
who impersonate Vikings. :) Deutsche (German) is useful for neo-nazi
types. Oops, Godwin's Law invoked!
A cool artificial language is Klingon. This is most useful for the Star
Trek fan meets. A Klingon accent would be useful too, among Star Trek fans
who don't speak Klingon. Imagine how funny it would be to have a Klingon
drinking accent. NOBODY would ever know where you're from! In the mean
time, I'll stick with Aussie as a drinking accent.
--
CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680
First Law of Economics: You can't sell product to people without money.
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Nenad Aliiç - urbejia esperantparolanto
skribis :
>generally they are not attracted to autistics, even when they say that they
>are interested in me. In the past I rejected many girls and women. Now I
>regret that.
dies waren die Worte von Hans Kamp - holla:ndischer Komplexler und
Schwarm aller Frauen
estas ja interesa ke ekzistas viro kiun la inoj kvazaw
seksumperfortigas kaj li tamen restas virgo .
Hans Kamp
Nenad Aliiç - urbejia esperantparolanto <nenad....@gmx.li> schreef in
berichtnieuws 37c01db7...@news.uta.at...
[It is an interesting fact that there exists a man that women would make to
rape them, and he keeps on being a virgin.
Mi ne scias kion vi celas diri per chi tio.
[I don't know what you mean to tell with this]
Hans Kamp.
Hans Kamp
Bloody Viking <nos...@miles.wwa.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
weTA3.1933$Hk7....@ord-read.news.verio.net...
> In alt.support.shyness Hans Kamp <hans...@introweb.nl> wrote:
>
> : The last week I had been at an international youth congress where
Esperanto
> : is spoken. I feel much less shy than outside the congress. I know a
pretty
> : lot of people there, and I feel being accepted. On that congress I tend
to
> : make less difference between men and women. I have met 2 Bulgarian women
> : there, but with them I spoke English because they were
Esperanto-beginners.
>
> Sounds like me and intentional accent use! :) If you feel less shy being
> at the Esperanto meets, go for it. You probably feel less shy becuse you
> know there's no native users and as a result, imperfection is acceptable.
Not only that. Zamenhof has mentioned the "interna ideo" (internal idea), in
which everyone should have respect towards other people. It is not just
about lingual and cultural differences, but also about handicapped people:
autistics, AS people, blind people, deaf people, everyone... I did see
autistics and people with Asperger's Syndrome that spoke Esperanto. I
remember that in this thread parents say that some autistics invented their
own words. Well, in Esperanto every combination of word-parts (radikoj) is
possible, only if it has sense. Sometimes I have a word, that should be
translated with a whole description in English and even in my native
tongue - Dutch.
> It's like when I use an accent around native users, when they know I'm not
> a native user myself. I simply have a good accent, but not perfect.
Nor am I. My speech might be partly influenced by my autism, but also by the
dialect that is spoken in my region.
> Too bad for me that Esperanto doesn't have any cool properties while
> naturally-occuring languages do. A language with a cool attribute that
> comes to mind is svenska. (Swedish) This language is useful for global
> warming -related real estate investment. The accent is useful for that
> too, even without the language.
I am not quite sure what you mean by this: "language/accent is useful for
global warming or other facts"...
> Old Norse would be good for the SCA types
> who impersonate Vikings. :) Deutsche (German) is useful for neo-nazi
> types. Oops, Godwin's Law invoked!
Ah, I see... Stereotype thoughts... And autistics are rocking on their
chair, not wanting to talk with others.. and playing with saucers, cups,
spoons, coins, etc... ;-)
> A cool artificial language is Klingon. This is most useful for the Star
> Trek fan meets. A Klingon accent would be useful too, among Star Trek fans
> who don't speak Klingon. Imagine how funny it would be to have a Klingon
> drinking accent. NOBODY would ever know where you're from! In the mean
> time, I'll stick with Aussie as a drinking accent.
"A drinking accent"... Again I am not sure what you mean by all this... :-(
Well, watching Star Trek, I tend to think that the Klingon language sounds
rough, as rough as the Klingons themselves are... When you ask them
something in a friendly way, they don't react... I think that a Klingon word
for "friendliness" doesn't exist... :-)
Hans Kamp.
N.Aliic' ~{3I9zJ@=gSoU_!!~}
>[It is an interesting fact that there exists a man that women would make to
>rape them, and he keeps on being a virgin.
>Mi ne scias kion vi celas diri per chi tio.
>[I don't know what you mean to tell with this]
Kaum zu glauben ist es , daß es da einen Mann gibt , den die Frauen
fast vergewaltigen wollen und der trotz allem Jungfrau bleibt .
Vielleicht verstehst es jetzt besser .
eble , oni povas faciligi tion fari kaj diri " VI ESTAS MIRO " .
cxu vi konas tion kanton " i bin a wunda , i kau nix ,
i bin a wunda , i wü nix , i bin a wunda , i mog nix ... " .
la titolo de tio rusa sciencfikcia romano "ne estas facila esti dio"
sonas ankaw pli bone ol la libro estas .
---
na iso 8859-3 , kurařu kaj uzu řin ankaý
ćar řis nun la reto ne estas preta por unikodo
germana esp-klavaro : x=ć q=ř y=ź w=ý #=ţ $=ś
Yury Finkel
> la titolo de tio rusa sciencfikcia romano "ne estas facila esti dio"
> sonas ankaw pli bone ol la libro estas .
La libro, laux mi, estas bonega, almenaux gxia rusa originalo.
(La esperanta traduko, tamen, estas malbona).
Mi, samkiel multaj el mia generacio, estis edukita sur (aux per)
libroj de fratoj Strugackij, kaj "Malfacilas esti dio" estis eble
la unua libro, traleginte kiun en 12-jara agxo, mi spertis katarson
(mi ne scias, cxu estas tia vorto en Esperanto - gxi estas grekdevena
kaj signifas pintan tragikan travivadon de artoverko).
--
Jurij Finkel, http://www.esperanto.mv.ru
Sebastian Hartwig
>
>Nenad Aliiç - urbejia esperantparolanto <nenad....@gmx.li> schreef
in
>berichtnieuws 37c01db7...@news.uta.at...
>> dies waren die Worte von Hans Kamp - holla:ndischer Komplexler und
>> Schwarm aller Frauen
[Jen la vortoj de Jhano Kamp -- nederlanda miscerbulo k amindumato de
chiuj virinoj.
This were the words of Hans Kamp -- mad shy dutchman and beloved by all
women.]
>> estas ja interesa ke ekzistas viro kiun la inoj kvazaw
>> seksumperfortigas kaj li tamen restas virgo .
>
>[It is an interesting fact that there exists a man that women would
make to
>rape them, and he keeps on being a virgin.
>
>Mi ne scias kion vi celas diri per chi tio.
Li simple ghojis trovi novan homon, kiun li povas insulti. Mi ne
supozas, ke lia mesagho havis plian celon. Kial li faris tion? Mi ne
scias.
>[I don't know what you mean to tell with this]
[He was simply pleased to find someone new to insult after getting bored
by insulting the regular sce-staff. I don't suppose his message to have
another purpose. Why he did so? I don't know.]
--
Sebastian/o
N.Aliic' ~{3I9zJ@=gSoU_!!~}
>[He was simply pleased to find someone new to insult after getting bored
so - what was insulting ; calling him "Klomplexler" or "that he is
beloved by all women" . i suppose the last one could be a heavy
insult for gays but in no way for our hansi .
mi nur diris gxin cxar gxi iel spegulas la frenezecon de nia vivo
kion rekoni helpas nin dawrigi nian acxan malfacilan vivon .
la tempo kiam mi ne plu povas eligi frazojn kia tia - estas
la horo de mia morto cxu nun mensa aw korpa .
berlino devas esti tre trista loko se agadoj faciligi la vivon
estas insultoj .
ne miro ke la kabanulo sukcesis germanie .
Sebastian Hartwig
<7res14$4dja$3...@www.univie.ac.at>...
>mi nur diris gxin cxar gxi iel spegulas la frenezecon de nia vivo
>kion rekoni helpas nin dawrigi nian acxan malfacilan vivon .
Sed kial ni daurigu nian "achan malfacilan vivon"? Kial ni ne provu
komenci "bonan afablan vivon"? Kial ni ne provu lasi en pacon la aliulon
k okupi nin jam nur pri la propraj aferoj?
Ke vivo frenezas, mi ne volas kontesti. Sed kial vi provas pliachigi
ghin? Kial vi ne provas 'rajdi la tigron' (por uzi esprimon de itala
filozofo Julio Evola)?
>la tempo kiam mi ne plu povas eligi frazojn kia tia - estas
>la horo de mia morto cxu nun mensa aw korpa .
La tempo, en kiu vi ne plu povas eligi kakon k pison estas la horo de
via morto -- mensa _k_ korpa. Tamen oni kutime ne kakas au pisas
publike. (Kvankam kelkfoje ja grupe...)
--
Sebastiano
N.Aliic' ~{3I9zJ@=gSoU_!!~}
>Sed kial ni daurigu nian "achan malfacilan vivon"? Kial ni ne provu
>komenci "bonan afablan vivon"? Kial ni ne provu lasi en pacon la aliulon
>k okupi nin jam nur pri la propraj aferoj?
la homo estas socia besto kaj bezonas aliulojn . katoj kaj multaj
aliaj bestoj ne bezonas aliajn katojn - krom katidoj - sed la
vivo de la homo dependas ćefe kiel ri
povas vivi en la homa socio .
tial homo bezonas lingvon kaj multajn aliajn por katoj superfluajn
aĽojn .
>Ke vivo frenezas, mi ne volas kontesti. Sed kial vi provas pliachigi
>ghin? Kial vi ne provas 'rajdi la tigron' (por uzi esprimon de itala
>filozofo Julio Evola)?
tion mi ne intencas . mi elbuţigis ći tion frazon -
unue por montri al hansi la frenezecon de la vivo
-due por montri al li ke li sole mem malfaciligas sian vivon
kaj ke li sole nur bezonas diri "jes , mi volas"
por solvi unu de siaj problemoj
se oni eldiras aćajn faktojn oni ne pliaćigas la vivon .
estas kompareble kun diri "aý" - reigu iomete ree
la senton de doloro - kio kaýzas atenton sed estas
nur signalo por ke oni rekonas kaj ţanřas aferon .
kio signifas 'rajdi la tigron" germane - sed bv.
ne respondu ' den Tiger reiten ' ?
>La tempo, en kiu vi ne plu povas eligi kakon k pison estas la horo de
>via morto -- mensa _k_ korpa. Tamen oni kutime ne kakas au pisas
>publike. (Kvankam kelkfoje ja grupe...)
kelkfoje ćiu faras ći tion pli malpli .