akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
Ross Hedvicek
>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:51:43 +0200
>From: Jozef Simek <utrr...@SAVBA.SAVBA.SK>
>Subject: akademici podla p. Hedvicka (Re: Vratte mi ...)
>> >No nic. Hadam keby ste trochu menej 'zvanili'.
>>
>> >Jozef Simek
>>
>> Menej zvanit, vravite? OK - budu jeste strucnejsi:
>>
>> Totalni chujovina, byt vyslovena akademikem ze SAVBA, presto zustava
>> chujovinou.
>> Mluvte dal, pan Simek. :-)
>Hadam keby ste vysvetlili, co pre Vas znamena slovo 'akademik'?
>Tolko ho tu pouzivate. Este som tu necital prispevok od ziadneho akademika.
>Taky by asi nemal cas zaoberat sa takymito recami s clovekom
>Vasich 'kvalit'.
>>
>> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
Rad odpovim i na tu nejblbejsi otazku, pan Simek:
Akademik, je udajne vzdelana osoba, ve vice nez 90% byvaly clen KSC nebo KSS,
nekteri i KSSS!, drzitel komunisty udelenych titulu jako RSDr., CSc., DrSc.,
PhDr a JUDr (a dalsich), neschopna se uzivit v normalnim zivote a proto se
skryvajici (nez se doba prezene ;-) ) na SAVBA (slovensky equivalent
Prognostickeho ustavu v Praze), a dale rozsirujici davno prekonane teorie a
ideologie svych byvalych a nynejsich panu. Vzhledem k ideologicke blizkosti
teorii fasismu, nazismu (nacionalniho socialismu), socialismu a komunismu
vetsina akademiku mluvi jako jeden muz.
Tuto definici mozno dale doplnit a rozsirit.
Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
----------------------------------
You can waste a whole lifetime / Trying to be
What you think is expected of you /But you'll never be free
May as well go fishing... Chris Rea
Ross Hedvicek
>From: George Zimek <geoz...@rahul.net>
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>Date: 7 Aug 1995 19:01:39 GMT
>Ross Hedvicek (naaf...@hookup.net) wrote:
>: >>
>: >> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>Rosto, riziko v psani takovejchle volovin je v tom, ze se muzou s Tebou lidi
>jednoho dne prestat bavit (i po zmeneni tema na neco duchaplnejsiho).
>George Zimek
Nebezpeci nehrozi. Vsichni lidi nejsou akademici (nastesti) a pokud se se mnou
prestanou bavit jen akademici - no, budu trpet, ale snad to vydrzim. :-)
George Zimek
: >>
: >> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
: Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
: ----------------------------------
: You can waste a whole lifetime / Trying to be
: What you think is expected of you /But you'll never be free
: May as well go fishing... Chris Rea
--
George Zimek
Vashek
>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu). Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
>dalsich uzitecnych veci. Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
Radovan Cerny
Ted bejt Ross tak se ukrutne naseru, ale protoze to nemuzu delat za nej
udelam to za sebe.
Radovane, jsem na tom asi tak jako Ross a nepresvedcis me ze me komunisti neco
dali. Jmeno mi dal tata a matrika nebyla ani komunisticky majetek ani kom.
vynalez.
Zakladni vzdelani je to co jsem se naucil sam na skole kterou mrzacili a na to
abych mohl byt Ing. jsem musel slozit zkousky z marxismu - to jsou ty uzitecne
veci co mas na mysli? Ano, nase tituly se na zapade uznavaly, ale jaksi ze
setrvacnosti, protoze si dlouho nikdo tady neumel predstavit ze by nekdo tak
zmrzacil ceske skolstvi. Kdyz jsem jim utekl, sel jsem si fofrem udelat MSc. a
PhD abych tim co mi komunisti dali nemusel mavat. Vis ze to nase stranovlada
dotahla s tim nasim skolstvim az za Nepal?
Ja nedelam poklony Rossovi - on dost keca, kdyz ho tak nekdy ctu, ale kdyz uz
je tak od huby, doufam ze se ozve.
Vasek.
Radovan Cerny
>Xref: news.unige.ch bit.listserv.slovak-l:12552 soc.culture.czecho-slovak:19379
>Path:
>news.unige.ch!swidir.switch.ch!univ-lyon1.fr!oleane!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!ta
>nk.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!n
>ic.wat.hookup.net!naafetee.wat.hookup.net!naafetee
>From: naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek)
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l,soc.culture.czecho-slovak
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
>Lines: 43
>Distribution: world
>Message-ID: <naafetee.10...@hookup.net>
>References: <1995080705...@savba.savba.sk>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: naafetee.wat.hookup.net
>X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
>>>
>>> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>----------------------------------
>You can waste a whole lifetime / Trying to be
>What you think is expected of you /But you'll never be free
>May as well go fishing... Chris Rea
Je zde nekolik nepresnosti:
- SAVBA neni ekvivalent Prognostickeho ustavu v Praze. Je to zkratka pr
Slovenskou Akademii Ved BrAtislava. Ale to Rossi urcite vis.
- Komuniste neudelovali titul PhDr. Ten byl zaveden nedavno. Drive se pouzival
CSc. podle vzoru Ruske Akademie. Oba tituly jsou vsak ekvivalentni
"doktoratu". CSc. (alespon ten z Karlovy Univerzity) byl bezne uznavan ve
svete.
- To, ze komunisti udelovali tituly jako CSc., DrSC. a JUDr., jeste neznamena,
ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu). Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
dalsich uzitecnych veci. Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
vybranych politickych stranach).
Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, University of Geneva, Switzerland
_____________________________________________________
Postal Address:
Laboratoire de Cristallographie
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4
Switzerland
Phone: [+[41] 22] 702 64 50
Private: [+[41] 22] 797 37 58
FAX : [+[41] 22] 781 21 92
Telex : ch-42 11 59 siad
e-mail: Radova...@cryst.unige.ch
_____________________________________________________
Radovan Cerny
>Xref: news.unige.ch bit.listserv.slovak-l:12585 soc.culture.czecho-slovak:19431
>Path:
>news.unige.ch!swidir.switch.ch!univ-lyon1.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!
>howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!wabe.csir.co.za!transprt.csir.co.za!vskut
>il
>From: vsk...@transprt.csir.co.za (Vashek)
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l,soc.culture.czecho-slovak
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>Organization: TRANSPORTEK
>Lines: 24
>Distribution: world
>Message-ID: <vskutil.7...@transprt.csir.co.za>
>References: <1995080705...@savba.savba.sk>
><naafetee.10...@hookup.net> <Radovan.Cern...@cryst.unige.ch>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 146.64.48.48
>X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]
>In article <Radovan.Cern...@cryst.unige.ch>
>Radova...@cryst.unige.ch (Radovan Cerny) writes:
>>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu). Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
>>dalsich uzitecnych veci. Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
> Radovan Cerny
>Ted bejt Ross tak se ukrutne naseru, ale protoze to nemuzu delat za nej
>udelam to za sebe.
>Radovane, jsem na tom asi tak jako Ross a nepresvedcis me ze me komunisti neco
>dali. Jmeno mi dal tata a matrika nebyla ani komunisticky majetek ani kom.
>vynalez.
>Zakladni vzdelani je to co jsem se naucil sam na skole kterou mrzacili a na to
>abych mohl byt Ing. jsem musel slozit zkousky z marxismu - to jsou ty uzitecne
>veci co mas na mysli? Ano, nase tituly se na zapade uznavaly, ale jaksi ze
>setrvacnosti, protoze si dlouho nikdo tady neumel predstavit ze by nekdo tak
>zmrzacil ceske skolstvi. Kdyz jsem jim utekl, sel jsem si fofrem udelat MSc. a
>PhD abych tim co mi komunisti dali nemusel mavat. Vis ze to nase stranovlada
>dotahla s tim nasim skolstvim az za Nepal?
>Ja nedelam poklony Rossovi - on dost keca, kdyz ho tak nekdy ctu, ale kdyz uz
>je tak od huby, doufam ze se ozve.
>Vasek.
Je videt, ze tady prevladaji emoce. Je zapotrebi se precist cely prispevek a
ne pouze to, co Vasek z neho vytrhl.
Chtel jsem ukazat, ze Rossova argumentace o davani titulu komunisty je
nesmyslna, zrovna tak, jako davani jmen komunisty. Samozrejme, ze Ti jmeno
dali tata a mama, ale bylo zapsano do komunisticke matriky. Zrovna tak Ti
titul sice dala Universita s pozehnanim strany a vlady, ale musel jsi obhajit
urcite mnozstvi znalosti a prace pred skupinou lidi, kteri tomu rozumeli. Opet
mohu mluvit pouze za obor, ktery znam, t.j. fyzika. Nikdo nikde titul
neuznaval ze setrvacnosti, takove dobraky nikde nenajdes. CSc. bylo uznavano
za ekvivalent "doktoratu", protoze ve svete byly dobre zkusenosti s drziteli
tohoto titulu. Alespon ve fyzice. Jestli Ti, Vasku, komunisti dali nejaky
titul, pak je to Tvuj problem, ze jsi ho od nich prijal. Me komunisti zadny
titul nedali. Stejne mnozstvi prace bych pro jeho ziskani musel vynalozit at
uz by u moci byl treba sam cisar pan. A to mnozstvi bylo naprosto ekvivalentni
urovni na mnoha jinych Evropskych universitach, ktere znam.
Skolstvi samozrejme bylo komunisty poznamenano. O tom, ze v humanitnich vedach
bylo zmrzaceno, nepochybuji.
Ross se urcite ozve.
J. Hajek
>
>>>Hadam keby ste vysvetlili, co pre Vas znamena slovo 'akademik'?
>>>Tolko ho tu pouzivate. Este som tu necital prispevok od ziadneho akademika.
>>>Taky by asi nemal cas zaoberat sa takymito recami s clovekom
>>>Vasich 'kvalit'.
>
>>>>
>>>> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>
>>Rad odpovim i na tu nejblbejsi otazku, pan Simek:
>
>>Akademik, je udajne vzdelana osoba, ve vice nez 90% byvaly clen KSC nebo KSS,
>>nekteri i KSSS!, drzitel komunisty udelenych titulu jako RSDr., CSc., DrSc.,
>>PhDr a JUDr (a dalsich), neschopna se uzivit v normalnim zivote a proto se
>>skryvajici (nez se doba prezene ;-) ) na SAVBA (slovensky equivalent
>>Prognostickeho ustavu v Praze), a dale rozsirujici davno prekonane teorie a
>>ideologie svych byvalych a nynejsich panu. Vzhledem k ideologicke blizkosti
>>teorii fasismu, nazismu (nacionalniho socialismu), socialismu a komunismu
>>vetsina akademiku mluvi jako jeden muz.
>
>>Tuto definici mozno dale doplnit a rozsirit.
>
>>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>
>- SAVBA neni ekvivalent Prognostickeho ustavu v Praze. Je to zkratka pr
>Slovenskou Akademii Ved BrAtislava. Ale to Rossi urcite vis.
>- Komuniste neudelovali titul PhDr. Ten byl zaveden nedavno. Drive se pouzival
>CSc. podle vzoru Ruske Akademie. Oba tituly jsou vsak ekvivalentni
>"doktoratu". CSc. (alespon ten z Karlovy Univerzity) byl bezne uznavan ve
>svete.
Protoze ti komuniste co si navzajem udelovali CSc-aky tlaci porad stejne
zidle (nebo si je navzajem jen prohodili: "Tonicku, copa dyby si zas
chvili delal X, a ja po tobe prevezmu Y ?"), dodnes ROZHODUJI ZASE
EXKOMUNISTE o tom kdo (NE)dostane jaky titul. A kazdy kdo to chce nekam
dotahnout si uz zase dava bacha na to co a koho (NE)kritizovat.
Neni snad rektor te nejdulezitejsi university exkomunista ?
Neni tomu snad tak, ze jinde byl rektorem navrzen nekomunista, protoze
ho navrhli neunosni exkomunisticti docenti z (tehdy predcasnych
a nyni zbytecnych) obav pred chvilku zrevolucnenymi studenty pred 5i lety)
Popisu vam jeden takovy pripad:
On, jako nestranik, si smel hrat asi 30 let s milou matikou, protoze
drzel usta, daval si pozor aby nenarazil, a za to ho komunisticti soudruzi
kolegove nechali 30 let si s tou jeho tak milou matikou hrat. Byl a je jim
za to dodnes vdecny. Po sametu ho nastrcili na rektorskou funkci, ale
on, zvykly 30 let slapat brazdu jako poslusny konik, slape presne tak,
jak piskaji ti exkomunisticti Doc CSc-aci kterymi je obklopen jak Karkulka
vlcaky, kteri ji hlidaji. A on, ktery to ma uz za par do penze, je jim
nakonec vdecny za to ze mu nabiha vysoky zaklad do penze, a vubec ze na
skorostara kolena si muze konecne neco doprat. A proto uz zase
SLAPE BRAZDU, jako stary, utahany huculsky konik, chcete-li, a nebo jako
stara slapka :-)
Tak je TAM ta situace v prevysokem skolstvi, soudruzi !
Ve vedeni, je nase spaseni J.
>- To, ze komunisti udelovali tituly jako CSc., DrSC. a JUDr., jeste neznamena,
>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu). Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
>dalsich uzitecnych veci. Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
>
>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>vybranych politickych stranach).
>
>
>
Ross Hedvicek
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>>In article <1995080705...@savba.savba.sk> Jozef Simek
>><utrr...@SAVBA.SAVBA.SK> writes:
>>>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:51:43 +0200
>>>From: Jozef Simek <utrr...@SAVBA.SAVBA.SK>
>>>Subject: akademici podla p. Hedvicka (Re: Vratte mi ...)
>>>> >No nic. Hadam keby ste trochu menej 'zvanili'.
>>>>
>>>> >Jozef Simek
>>>>
>>>> Menej zvanit, vravite? OK - budu jeste strucnejsi:
>>>>
>>>> Totalni chujovina, byt vyslovena akademikem ze SAVBA, presto zustava
>>>> chujovinou.
>>>> Mluvte dal, pan Simek. :-)
>>>Hadam keby ste vysvetlili, co pre Vas znamena slovo 'akademik'?
>>>Tolko ho tu pouzivate. Este som tu necital prispevok od ziadneho akademika.
>>>Taky by asi nemal cas zaoberat sa takymito recami s clovekom
>>>Vasich 'kvalit'.
>>>>
>>>> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>>Rad odpovim i na tu nejblbejsi otazku, pan Simek:
>>Akademik, je udajne vzdelana osoba, ve vice nez 90% byvaly clen KSC nebo KSS,
>>nekteri i KSSS!, drzitel komunisty udelenych titulu jako RSDr., CSc., DrSc.,
>>PhDr a JUDr (a dalsich), neschopna se uzivit v normalnim zivote a proto se
>>skryvajici (nez se doba prezene ;-) ) na SAVBA (slovensky equivalent
>>Prognostickeho ustavu v Praze), a dale rozsirujici davno prekonane teorie a
>>ideologie svych byvalych a nynejsich panu. Vzhledem k ideologicke blizkosti
>>teorii fasismu, nazismu (nacionalniho socialismu), socialismu a komunismu
>>vetsina akademiku mluvi jako jeden muz.
>>Tuto definici mozno dale doplnit a rozsirit.
>>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>>----------------------------------
>>You can waste a whole lifetime / Trying to be
>>What you think is expected of you /But you'll never be free
>>May as well go fishing... Chris Rea
>Je zde nekolik nepresnosti:
>- SAVBA neni ekvivalent Prognostickeho ustavu v Praze. Je to zkratka pr
>Slovenskou Akademii Ved BrAtislava. Ale to Rossi urcite vis.
Vim - ale kdyz se podivas na ty rudochy vevnitr - je to tak velky rozdil? :-)
>- Komuniste neudelovali titul PhDr. Ten byl zaveden nedavno.
Ja jsem si vsiml, ze titul PhDr (nebo PHDr. nevim) byl udelovan jiz v roce
1971, jiste to potom nezrusili.
> Drive se pouzival
>CSc. podle vzoru Ruske Akademie. Oba tituly jsou vsak ekvivalentni
>"doktoratu". CSc. (alespon ten z Karlovy Univerzity) byl bezne uznavan ve
>svete.
>- To, ze komunisti udelovali tituly jako CSc., DrSC. a JUDr., jeste neznamena,
>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu).
Tyto tituly byly naprostou vetsinou udeleny v odmenu jejich nositelum za
jejich poslusnost strane - ne za nejake znalosti - proto je jejich hodnota
nulova kdekoliv jinde v normalnim svete - v Cesku a na Slovensku jiste ze
porad plati (a byt "pani doktorova" opravnuje Vasi manzelku dostat v reznictvi
lepsi svickovou!)
> Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
Jmeno mi dali rodice :-), tobe dali jmeno komunisti? Jako tatinek=komunista?
:-)
>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
>dalsich uzitecnych veci.
Zakladni vzdelani neni zasluha komunistu - to bych (snad) dostal i kdybych se
narodil v Bangladeshi a nebo v Chile pod Pinochetem.
> Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
Viz vyse - neni!
>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>vybranych politickych stranach).
Jsem rad ze po tolika letech jsme dospeli k bodu, kdy spolu souhlasime.
Pripadam si, jako kdyz Ludvik Svoboda podepisoval s Leonidem Breznevem smlouvu
o neochvejnem pratelstvi se Sovetskym svazem - v zari roku 1968. Vis, ten
pocit te ulevy - ze je zase vsechno v poradku....
> Radovan Cerny
Ross Hedvicek
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>In article <Radovan.Cern...@cryst.unige.ch> Radova...@cryst.unige.ch (Radovan Cerny) writes:
>>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu). Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
>>dalsich uzitecnych veci. Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
> Radovan Cerny
>Ted bejt Ross tak se ukrutne naseru, ale protoze to nemuzu delat za nej
>udelam to za sebe.
>Radovane, jsem na tom asi tak jako Ross a nepresvedcis me ze me komunisti neco
>dali. Jmeno mi dal tata a matrika nebyla ani komunisticky majetek ani kom.
>vynalez.
>Zakladni vzdelani je to co jsem se naucil sam na skole kterou mrzacili a na to
>abych mohl byt Ing. jsem musel slozit zkousky z marxismu - to jsou ty uzitecne
>veci co mas na mysli? Ano, nase tituly se na zapade uznavaly, ale jaksi ze
>setrvacnosti, protoze si dlouho nikdo tady neumel predstavit ze by nekdo tak
>zmrzacil ceske skolstvi. Kdyz jsem jim utekl, sel jsem si fofrem udelat MSc. a
>PhD abych tim co mi komunisti dali nemusel mavat. Vis ze to nase stranovlada
>dotahla s tim nasim skolstvim az za Nepal?
>Ja nedelam poklony Rossovi - on dost keca, kdyz ho tak nekdy ctu,
Kdokoliv, kdo mne pristihne pri faktickem a nespornem nesmyslu, je timto
vyzyvan, aby to zde uverejnil. Rikam faktickem nesmyslu, protoze chci vynechat
diskuse o rozdilnych pohledech na svet. :-)))
ale kdyz uz
>je tak od huby, doufam ze se ozve.
>Vasek.
Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
Radovan Cerny
>Path:
>news.unige.ch!swidir.switch.ch!univ-lyon1.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.n
>et!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!hookup!noc.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup
>.net!naafetee.wat.hookup.net!naafetee
>From: naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek)
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l,soc.culture.czecho-slovak
>Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
>Distribution: world
>Message-ID: <naafetee.10...@hookup.net>
>References: <1995080705...@savba.savba.sk>
><naafetee.10...@hookup.net> <Radovan.Cern...@cryst.unige.ch>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: naafetee.wat.hookup.net
>X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
>>>>>
>>>>> Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
Myslim, ze to neni pravda. Nepletes si to s "promovanym filosofem"?
>> Drive se pouzival
>>CSc. podle vzoru Ruske Akademie. Oba tituly jsou vsak ekvivalentni
>>"doktoratu". CSc. (alespon ten z Karlovy Univerzity) byl bezne uznavan ve
>>svete.
>>- To, ze komunisti udelovali tituly jako CSc., DrSC. a JUDr., jeste neznamena,
>>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu).
>Tyto tituly byly naprostou vetsinou udeleny v odmenu jejich nositelum za
>jejich poslusnost strane - ne za nejake znalosti - proto je jejich hodnota
>nulova kdekoliv jinde v normalnim svete - v Cesku a na Slovensku jiste ze
>porad plati (a byt "pani doktorova" opravnuje Vasi manzelku dostat v reznictvi
>lepsi svickovou!)
Prosim vas, vysvetlete mu nekdo, ze to neni tak zcela pravda. Me uz ubyva sil.
>> Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>Jmeno mi dali rodice :-), tobe dali jmeno komunisti? Jako tatinek=komunista?
>:-)
>>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
>>dalsich uzitecnych veci.
>Zakladni vzdelani neni zasluha komunistu - to bych (snad) dostal i kdybych se
>narodil v Bangladeshi a nebo v Chile pod Pinochetem.
>> Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
>Viz vyse - neni!
Viz ma odpoved Vashkovi.
>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>Jsem rad ze po tolika letech jsme dospeli k bodu, kdy spolu souhlasime.
>Pripadam si, jako kdyz Ludvik Svoboda podepisoval s Leonidem Breznevem smlouvu
>o neochvejnem pratelstvi se Sovetskym svazem - v zari roku 1968. Vis, ten
>pocit te ulevy - ze je zase vsechno v poradku....
Hlavne jestli Ti, mily Rossi, chutna, dobre spis atd. Pak je opravdu vse v
poradku.
>> Radovan Cerny
>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>----------------------------------
>You can waste a whole lifetime / Trying to be
>What you think is expected of you /But you'll never be free
>May as well go fishing... Chris Rea
Radovan Cerny
Frank Bures
Radovan Cerny <Radova...@cryst.unige.ch> wrote:
>Chtel jsem ukazat, ze Rossova argumentace o davani titulu komunisty je
>nesmyslna, zrovna tak, jako davani jmen komunisty. Samozrejme, ze Ti jmeno
>dali tata a mama, ale bylo zapsano do komunisticke matriky. Zrovna tak Ti
>titul sice dala Universita s pozehnanim strany a vlady, ale musel jsi obhajit
>urcite mnozstvi znalosti a prace pred skupinou lidi, kteri tomu rozumeli. Opet
I na Vokovicke Sorbone? To snad ani nemuzete myslet vazne :-(
--
Frank Bures, University of Toronto, ON, Canada, M5S 1A1
Internet: fbu...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca CompuServe: 71324,1515
"Politicians treat me like a mushroom - they feed me bull and keep me in
the blind" - Travis Tritt
Alexander Kiefer
>In article <naafetee.10...@hookup.net> naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek) writes:
>>Path:
>>news.unige.ch!swidir.switch.ch!univ-lyon1.fr!oleane!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!ta
>>nk.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!n
>>ic.wat.hookup.net!naafetee.wat.hookup.net!naafetee
>>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l,soc.culture.czecho-slovak
>>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>>Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
>>Distribution: world
>>Message-ID: <naafetee.10...@hookup.net>
>>References: <1995080705...@savba.savba.sk>
>>X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
>
>
>CSc. podle vzoru Ruske Akademie. Oba tituly jsou vsak ekvivalentni
>"doktoratu". CSc. (alespon ten z Karlovy Univerzity) byl bezne uznavan ve
That would have been a very *CHEEP* Ph.D..
>svete.
>- To, ze komunisti udelovali tituly jako CSc., DrSC. a JUDr., jeste neznamena,
>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu). Komunisti Ti, mily Rossi,
>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>dali Ti Tve zakladni vzdelani (na komunisticke zakladni skole) a spoustu
-----------------
I would suppose that discussion went about the degrees, not education
per se.
>dalsich uzitecnych veci. Cili Tva argumentace je v tomto bode nesmyslna.
According to number of years/credits required to obtain the degree,
since evaluation of "Equivalence" means just that and nothing more:
CsC M.Eng, M.Sc.
DrSc Ph.D
But that just tells, that if one has a CsC degree, he might, if he
satisfies the requirements, enroll in a Ph.D. program. Otherwise, some
DrSc can enroll in nothing, or can start a new Ph.D. program.
A MuDr can probably start his studies all over again. Same for JuDr.
I want to stress once more, that there should be no play with the
word "Equivalence". It means what I described above, and nothing more.
It has nothing to do with the degree, but with the years of schooling.
Western (American) school/economical system is significantly different
from Communist/Postcommunist system.
Nevertheless, some people with CsC degrees, might be admitted to work
at the Western Universities. This, although, has nothing to do with
their degrees. There are also many people with M.Eng./M.Sc. degrees
working on the same posts.
Also the degrees in the context of Western society have completely
different meaning/function than in Communist/Postcommunist
society. Some people from Eastern Europe are at great pains with
realising that.
Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
Note:
the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
was to be a *communist*.
So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
was/is a communist.
>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>vybranych politickych stranach).
Indeed.
Alexander
Peter Habala
> chvili delal X, a ja po tobe prevezmu Y ?"), dodnes ROZHODUJI ZASE
> EXKOMUNISTE o tom kdo (NE)dostane jaky titul.
Well, Rossi, v predchozim postu jsi chtel, abychom te upozornili
na fakticke chyby. Nebudu pripominat ty minule pohadky o cenzure
Internetu v Ceskoslezsku, nebot tady je cerstvy pripad:
O tom, jestli nekdo dostane na matice magistra nebo PhD nerozhoduji
zadni komuniste, ale jen a jen odborne schopnosti, dokonce uz
ani ta zkouska z marxaku tam neni. Tohle je proste fakt ktery
nijak neobkecas a budes se s nim muset naucit zit.
Jinak mala poznamka pro pana Burese: Ano, i na prazske Sorbone
musel clovek svuj titul obhajit pred porotou spickovych odborniku.
Je dokonce mozne, ze slo o nejlepsi na svete, protoze takove
marxisticke inteligenty snad nemeli ani v Rusku.
pH, i.m.
Ross Hedvicek
>From: Alexander Kiefer <KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca>
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>Also the degrees in the context of Western society have completely
>different meaning/function than in Communist/Postcommunist
>society. Some people from Eastern Europe are at great pains with
>realising that.
>Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
Ooooooh, you mean that DrSc does NOT produce excrement of higher quality and
more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
fine in that Czechoslovakistan, you know, it was almost better than cast
system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>Note:
>the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>was to be a *communist*.
>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>was/is a communist.
Yep, once communist - always communist.
>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>Indeed.
>Alexander
Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
----------------------------------
You can waste a whole lifetime / Trying to be
What you think is expected of you / But you'll never be free
Ross Hedvicek
>From: Peter Habala <pha...@vega.math.ualberta.ca>
>Subject: Re: akademici: KONIK SLAPE BRAZDU, VLCACI HO HLIDAJI
>Date: 8 Aug 1995 23:11:57 GMT
>rcj...@urc.tue.nl (J. Hajek) wrote:
>> chvili delal X, a ja po tobe prevezmu Y ?"), dodnes ROZHODUJI ZASE
>> EXKOMUNISTE o tom kdo (NE)dostane jaky titul.
>Well, Rossi, v predchozim postu jsi chtel, abychom te upozornili
>na fakticke chyby. Nebudu pripominat ty minule pohadky o cenzure
>Internetu v Ceskoslezsku, nebot tady je cerstvy pripad:
>O tom, jestli nekdo dostane na matice magistra nebo PhD nerozhoduji
>zadni komuniste, ale jen a jen odborne schopnosti, dokonce uz
>ani ta zkouska z marxaku tam neni. Tohle je proste fakt ktery
>nijak neobkecas a budes se s nim muset naucit zit.
Oooooooooooh, reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaallllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy????
>Jinak mala poznamka pro pana Burese: Ano, i na prazske Sorbone
>musel clovek svuj titul obhajit pred porotou spickovych odborniku.
>Je dokonce mozne, ze slo o nejlepsi na svete, protoze takove
>marxisticke inteligenty snad nemeli ani v Rusku.
> pH, i.m.
O co ti jde? Ze to tam sice jsou komuniste, ale stejne jsou to nejchytrejsi
komuniste na svete?
Prevezmete to tady nekdo za mne - mne prave ranila mrtvice!!!
Jan Hlavacek
Ross Hedvicek <naaf...@hookup.net> wrote:
>
>O co ti jde? Ze to tam sice jsou komuniste, ale stejne jsou to nejchytrejsi
>komuniste na svete?
>
>Prevezmete to tady nekdo za mne - mne prave ranila mrtvice!!!
>
Petre, vidis, priste nebud linej a dej tam toho smilyho! ;-)
Rosta musi bejt z toho souboje o moralku nejakej vycerpanej, nebo
co:-).
lahvak
--
Jan Hlav\'{a}\v{c}ek
lah...@math.ohio-state.edu
www: http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~lahvak
Jan Hlavacek
Jezismarja, lidi, co kdybyste po sobe trochu uklizeli. Podivejte se
kolik je tady jenom headers!
>
>>>- Komuniste neudelovali titul PhDr. Ten byl zaveden nedavno.
>
>>Ja jsem si vsiml, ze titul PhDr (nebo PHDr. nevim) byl udelovan jiz v roce
>>1971, jiste to potom nezrusili.
>
>Myslim, ze to neni pravda. Nepletes si to s "promovanym filosofem"?
>
Titul PhDr. byl udelovan pokud vim celou dobu. Byl to ale podvod,
protoze ho clovek dostal de fakto za statnice, to znamena ze odpovidal
titulu Master, nebo dnesnimu mgr. Promovany filosof existoval taky,
ale bylo to jeste min nez PhDr.
>>> Drive se pouzival
>>>CSc. podle vzoru Ruske Akademie. Oba tituly jsou vsak ekvivalentni
>>>"doktoratu". CSc. (alespon ten z Karlovy Univerzity) byl bezne uznavan ve
>>>svete.
>>>- To, ze komunisti udelovali tituly jako CSc., DrSC. a JUDr., jeste neznamena,
>>>ze jejich hodnota byla nulova (tech titulu).
CSc (celkom slusny cikan) byl dalsi step po PhDr., a odpovidal, jak
kdosi napsal, doktoratu. Co se tyce hodnoty titulu a jeho uznani ve
svete, zalezelo hodne na oboru. Ja myslim ze ve vedach ho celkem
uznavali, ale v "arts" moc ne.
Po CSc. nasledovalo DrSC. (drsny cikan), cemu to odpovida nemam tusaka.
Veselo je v pastousce,
nas Pepa ma po zkousce,
bude panem doktorem
a bude jezdit s traktorem.
J. Vodnansky
Boris Rajek
[deleted]
: Prevezmete to tady nekdo za mne - mne prave ranila mrtvice!!!
P. Hedvicek tu uz niekolko krat zdoraznoval (citujem):
"Rosta ma vzdycky pravdu!"
a tiez:
"Rosta nikdy nekeca!"
Uprimnu sustrast.
Verim, ze niekto to "za nej" prevezme. :-)
Boris
ra...@netcom.com
J. Hajek
>>
>>Ooooooh, you mean that DrSc does NOT produce excrement of higher quality and
>>more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
>
>the little red flags they have erected at the top of their "work".
>
>>fine in that Czechoslovakistan, you know, it was almost better than cast
>>system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>>
>>>was to be a *communist*.
>>>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>>>was/is a communist.
>
>contact after the velvet contarrevolution, really seems to be a
Correction: VELVET COUNTERREVOLUTION
>noncommie (Ive put him through dozens of tests over a couple of years).
>Probably in some cases a noncommie candidate for a CSc had to wait say 8
>years longer than a commie shit had to wait.
>Any learned comments ? J.
>
>>Yep, once communist - always communist.
>>
>>
>>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
>
I was "zjeban" by good Kiwi bratr Kriha for just one superfluous comma,while
Ross was allowed to write "a cast in India" instead of a caste. Hence my
above correction. However I dont wanna engage in nit picking; I just
realized that the VELVET COUNTERREVOLUTION is the very best way how to
describe the events of Nov. 17.
Zapadly vlastenec J."Jirasek"
PS: Although Im sure Occident and Orient require the capital O, Im not
too sure that Occidental and Oriental do require it as well; I guess
they do.
Ross Hedvicek
>From: ra...@netcom.com (Boris Rajek)
>Subject: Re: akademici: KONIK SLAPE BRAZDU, VLCACI HO HLIDAJI
>Ross Hedvicek (naaf...@hookup.net) wrote:
>[deleted]
>Uprimnu sustrast.
>Boris
>ra...@netcom.com
Neni treba - asi to byl jen hickup. :-/
Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
----------------------------------
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Peter Hakel
[...]
> Western (American) school/economical system is significantly different
> from Communist/Postcommunist system.
The difference is not between East-West, but between Europe-North America.
What we learn at high school level (general education in math, physics,
chemistry, biology, history, native language and foreign languages) is
taught here during first two college years. In Europe you take classes
related to your major only, whereas here you have to take many classes
outside of your major (since universities should provide "universal" education).
[...]
> Also the degrees in the context of Western society have completely
> different meaning/function than in Communist/Postcommunist
> society. Some people from Eastern Europe are at great pains with
> realising that.
Realizing what?
> Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
Very true. Naturally, a Slovak student during 5 years is to
learn much more advanced stuff than an American during 4 years. See the
above argument. This may be different for top institutions but I guess
we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as far as
physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
prepared for the job than an American Bachelor of Science.
> Note:
>
> the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
> was to be a *communist*.
> So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
> was/is a communist.
IMHO, this is not true; it may be true for some CSc's, maybe for majority
of CSc's, but definitely not for all CSc's as your phrase "absolutely
necessary condition" says. It may have been so earlier but certainly not
in the (late) 1980s.
Peter Hakel
J. Hajek
>more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
Not necessarily, but their xcrements looked more pleasant because of
the little red flags they have erected at the top of their "work".
>fine in that Czechoslovakistan, you know, it was almost better than cast
>system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>
>>Note:
>
>>the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>>was to be a *communist*.
>>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>>was/is a communist.
Im not yet convinced, because the only CSc with whom Ive established
contact after the velvet contarrevolution, really seems to be a
noncommie (Ive put him through dozens of tests over a couple of years).
Probably in some cases a noncommie candidate for a CSc had to wait say 8
years longer than a commie shit had to wait.
Any learned comments ? J.
>
>Yep, once communist - always communist.
>
>>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>
>>Indeed.
>
>>Alexander
>
>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
Zdislav V. Kovarik
Jan Hlavacek <lah...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
[predchazejici diskuse vystrizena]
:>CSc (celkom slusny cikan) byl dalsi step po PhDr., a odpovidal, jak
:>kdosi napsal, doktoratu. Co se tyce hodnoty titulu a jeho uznani ve
:>svete, zalezelo hodne na oboru. Ja myslim ze ve vedach ho celkem
:>uznavali, ale v "arts" moc ne.
:>
(*) viz nize
:>Po CSc. nasledovalo DrSC. (drsny cikan), cemu to odpovida nemam tusaka.
:>
:>Veselo je v pastousce,
:>nas Pepa ma po zkousce,
:>bude panem doktorem
:>a bude jezdit s traktorem.
:>
:> J. Vodnansky
:>
:>lahvak
:>--
:>Jan Hlav\'{a}\v{c}ek
:>lah...@math.ohio-state.edu
:>www: http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~lahvak
:>
Ja behem studovani
Mel vzdy vyznamenani
Takze rodicu prani
Dovrsena mira.
A kdyz jsem dostudoval
Dochtorat jsem sroloval
Do pouzdra jsem ho schoval
A delam v baru portyra
V+W
Sisky se delaji na modrinech,
hrobari hajaji na vavrinech.
Splnili ukoly na sto procent,
kdo chodi do skoly, bude docent.
Karel Kryl
V umeni se prece udeloval titul zasoulozily umrelec.
Over here, Bachelor of Science is B.S.
And PhD ? That's like B.S. but Piled Higher and Deeper.
Charlie Farquharson
I remember a student (a few years ago) coming for advice whether to take
one of my math courses or not, in particular whether it will improve his
chances for employment. After some discussion, he paused and asked me
directly: "And have you ever had a job?"
Slavek (ZVK)
Jan Hlavacek
Peter Hakel <ha...@scs.unr.edu> wrote:
>On 8 Aug 1995, Alexander Kiefer wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Western (American) school/economical system is significantly different
>> from Communist/Postcommunist system.
>
> The difference is not between East-West, but between Europe-North America.
>What we learn at high school level (general education in math, physics,
>chemistry, biology, history, native language and foreign languages) is
>taught here during first two college years. In Europe you take classes
Only in the case of good student. For majority of students here, this
should be "first four or five college years".
>
> Very true. Naturally, a Slovak student during 5 years is to
>learn much more advanced stuff than an American during 4 years. See the
>above argument. This may be different for top institutions but I guess
>we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as far as
>physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
>prepared for the job than an American Bachelor of Science.
It would certainly be sad if he was not. Magistr doesn't correspond to
bachelor. Bachelor is "bakalar". Magistr is about the same as Master.
Frank Bures
Zdislav V. Kovarik <kov...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> wrote:
>In article <40997q$f...@math.mps.ohio-state.edu>,
>Jan Hlavacek <lah...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>[predchazejici diskuse vystrizena]
>
>
>Mel vzdy vyznamenani
>Takze rodicu prani
>Dovrsena mira.
>A kdyz jsem dostudoval
>Dochtorat jsem sroloval
>Do pouzdra jsem ho schoval
>A delam v baru portyra
> V+W
>
>Sisky se delaji na modrinech,
>hrobari hajaji na vavrinech.
>Splnili ukoly na sto procent,
>kdo chodi do skoly, bude docent.
> Karel Kryl
>
>
>one of my math courses or not, in particular whether it will improve his
>chances for employment. After some discussion, he paused and asked me
>directly: "And have you ever had a job?"
>
Hymna spolku POSER (POdebradsky Spolek Elitnich Repetentu)
----------------------------------------------------------
Zpiva se na melodii "No tak vidis Mano, prece jsme te lizli"
1.
Sinu si to takhle Kolonadou z rana,
do skolicky specham rovnou z hospody,
prenemila zprava, dekan si mne zada,
nejradsi bych skocil do vody.
2.
U dekana tam je dusno k nedejchani,
ma krvavy ruce a voci podlity,
sotva mne uvidel, do dlani si plivnul
a zarval na mne mas to vodbyty.
3.
Byl jsi hovno student, stale jsi se valel,
valel jsi se z rana a chlastal k veceru,
za to ja ti tedka, ditko roztomily,
misto rektoraku naseru.
4.
Byl jsi sama devka, misto studovani,
prednasky jsi videl, sotva z rychliku,
tedka bude smytec a zadny milovani,
vojna na te ceka hosiku.
5. Nejhorsi je na tom, zes' mel trochu smulu
a v putykach casto, vidavan jsi byl.
Zapocty jsi nemel u zkousek byls' trapnej
s radosti te kazdy vyhodil.
6.
A tak jsem si zbalil vsechny svoje kramy.
Naposledy s hochy, vozrat jsem se sel,
dnes jsem jeste tady, zejtra zas u mamy,
tenhle job mi teda nevysel.
7.
Ted uz je to dobry, muzu spalit skripta,
a k tomu se tise, HYSTERICKY smat (CHA, CHA, CHA),
dam si dve, tri pivka, na zamek si zajdu,
naposledy pochcat dekanat.
8.
Pri vyberu skoly, hochu pozor dej si,
kazdy kdo sem prisel, na to doplati,
zhrzeno tve mladi, brzicko tu bude,
pro sebevrahy to neplati.
(C) Frank Bures a.k.a. Isa 1968
P.S. Ke zminene hymne se prosim chovejte s pietou. Je zbrocena krvi
tech, kteri polozili sve studentske zivoty na oltar Podebradskeho klubu
Netopyr a tim padem se jim nepodarilo dostudovat. Bylo jich nepocitane.
V Podebradech naz zacinalo asi tak 450 a promovalo nas neco pres
stovku.
Paul J. Kriha
rcj...@urc.tue.nl (J. Hajek) wrote:
>In article <rcjanh.130...@urc.tue.nl> rcj...@urc.tue.nl (J. Hajek)
writes:
[...]
>I was "zjeban" by good Kiwi bratr Kriha for just one superfluous comma,while
>Ross was allowed to write "a cast in India" instead of a caste. Hence my
I am a crusader for the rights of commas. The commas, apostrophies
and semicolons must have their lebensraum restored to them.
The day *will* come again when the confiscated properties of
whitespace *is* returned.
Furthermore, some commas are even more important than other characters.
*What is this thing, called love?*
or
*What is this thing called, love?*
No.1 you say looking deep into the eyes of your beloved.
No.2 says she looking below your belly button.
>above correction. However I dont wanna engage in nit picking; I just
>realized that the VELVET COUNTERREVOLUTION is the very best way how to
>describe the events of Nov. 17.
> Zapadly vlastenec J."Jirasek"
>
>PS: Although Im sure Occident and Orient require the capital O, Im not
> too sure that Occidental and Oriental do require it as well; I guess
> they do.
Gee you've got me here. I'd say, even the adjectives get capitalized,
just like American turkey or German angst.
Paul JK
Jan Ilavsky
>In article <Radovan.Cern...@cryst.unige.ch> Radova...@cryst.unige.ch (Radovan Cerny) writes:
>>chces-li tomu tak, taky udelili Tve jmeno (zapsanim do komunisticke matriky),
>
>
>Ted bejt Ross tak se ukrutne naseru, ale protoze to nemuzu delat za nej
>udelam to za sebe.
>Radovane, jsem na tom asi tak jako Ross a nepresvedcis me ze me komunisti neco
>dali. Jmeno mi dal tata a matrika nebyla ani komunisticky majetek ani kom.
>vynalez.
>Zakladni vzdelani je to co jsem se naucil sam na skole kterou mrzacili a na to
>abych mohl byt Ing. jsem musel slozit zkousky z marxismu - to jsou ty uzitecne
>veci co mas na mysli? Ano, nase tituly se na zapade uznavaly, ale jaksi ze
>setrvacnosti, protoze si dlouho nikdo tady neumel predstavit ze by nekdo tak
>zmrzacil ceske skolstvi. Kdyz jsem jim utekl, sel jsem si fofrem udelat MSc. a
>PhD abych tim co mi komunisti dali nemusel mavat. Vis ze to nase stranovlada
>dotahla s tim nasim skolstvim az za Nepal?
>
>Vasek.
Panove, placate nesmysly. I kdyz s kazdou dalsi "upravou" se nase skolstvi
nezlepsovalo (vzpomente mnoziny) tak k takove katastrofe, jakou maji tady
v USA se to komunistum pres veskerou snahu nepodarilo dotahnout. A mnoho
RNDr., ing., Cs.C. a buhvi co jeste nikdy v zadne partaji nebylo. Clovek
s titulem RNDr. je urcite na stejne, ne-li vyssi vzdelanostni urovni nez
Americky Master (M.Sc.). Americky bakalar (B.Sc.) se velmi blizi lidovemu
BS (pro neznale "bullshit").
Pokud necemu nerozumite, zeptejte se tech, kteri situaci
na skolach v obou zemich duverne znaji. A neplacejte takove nesmysly....
Takze, mozna ze to nase stranovlada dotahla az za Nepal (tam jsem nebyl
a neznam) ale dotahla to pred USA (tam jsem byl, jsem a duverne znam).
Honza
Jan Ilavsky
>In article <08AUG95.14...@music.mus.polymtl.ca> Alexander Kiefer <KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca> writes:
>>From: Alexander Kiefer <KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca>
>
>>different meaning/function than in Communist/Postcommunist
>>society. Some people from Eastern Europe are at great pains with
>>realising that.
>>Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
Agreed, quite often it currently in US means disqualification in a job market.
>
>Ooooooh, you mean that DrSc does NOT produce excrement of higher quality and
>more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
>fine in that Czechoslovakistan, you know, it was almost better than cast
>system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>
This is total BS, BS, and once more BS. The Czechoslovak social system
(if that's what by this stupid paragraf suppose to comment) was much more equal
then current system in the U.S. And, BTW, the ones highest in the social
level in Soc. Czechoslovakia used to be butchers, plumbers, and other
"working class" you idiot. Read your friends Lenin, Marx and Engels.
CsC. were on the end of the social structure, because they did not make
(actually "produce") anything... Why are you trying to change history??????
It's bad enough as it is.
>
>>Note:
>
>>the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>>was to be a *communist*.
>>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>>was/is a communist.
>
>Yep, once communist - always communist.
>
Wrong, wrong and again wrong. I know personally a few CsC. which have never
been communists, actually just opposite. It took them longer, with much more
pain and work, they had to be gooood (best by a lot around) to get the CsC.,
but your sweeping judgement is totaly wrong...
>>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>
Akademik neznamena CsC. Bylo mnohem vice CsC. (stejne jako je Ph.D.) nez akademiku.
Zkuste se domluvit na terminech. Akademici byli normalne Dr.Sc. (jestli jsem trefil
speling). Vetsinou komunisti, to je pravda, ale i tam byly svetle vyjimky (znam osobne -
misto za zhruba rok od podani to tlacil skrz system 7 let, ale dostal to skrz,
protoze to bylo v jeho oboru to nejlepsi co se u nas udelalo za poslednich 20 let)...
Vas zivot je jednoduchy - vsichni byli a jsou komunisti, byli a jsou spatni,
jen vy jste genialni a delate a delali jste to dobre.
Vas zivot musi byt neuveritelne jednoduchy,
skoro Vam zavidim, i kdyz, na druhou stranu, psat takove nesmysly,
co Vy pisete, to snad radsi ne...
Honza
Jan Ilavsky
>Prevezmete to tady nekdo za mne - mne prave ranila mrtvice!!!
>
No konecne, to to trvalo. Prispeju na venec....
Honza
Alexander Kiefer
>In article <naafetee.10...@hookup.net> naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek) writes:
>>
>>more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
>
>the little red flags they have erected at the top of their "work".
>
>>system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>>
>>
>>>the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>>>was to be a *communist*.
>>>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>>>was/is a communist.
>
>contact after the velvet contarrevolution, really seems to be a
>noncommie (Ive put him through dozens of tests over a couple of years).
>Probably in some cases a noncommie candidate for a CSc had to wait say 8
>years longer than a commie shit had to wait.
>Any learned comments ? J.
Dammed, what fraction of the total did they constitute?
If talking of this, there is also some probability that the child
born from black parents can be white. No, no, no hidden white
ancestors. Just like that!
Next time, I suppose, we could "our" doctorlets hear claiming
black ancestry.
Alexander
>>Yep, once communist - always communist.
>>
>>>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>>
>>>Indeed.
>>
>>>Alexander
>>
>>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
Alexander Kiefer
>On 8 Aug 1995, Alexander Kiefer wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Western (American) school/economical system is significantly different
>> from Communist/Postcommunist system.
>
> The difference is not between East-West, but between Europe-North America.
>What we learn at high school level (general education in math, physics,
Eastern Europe with its Post/Communist character should be rather
called Russiopa. It is very far from being integrated into European
economic/cultural structures. (Yep, I know, tomorrow, ...)
>chemistry, biology, history, native language and foreign languages) is
>taught here during first two college years. In Europe you take classes
------
Again bull. People who come at present from East to study on Western
Universities spent numerous hours being taught "Citizen Education",
"Marx-Leninism", "Military Education" at any level in the educational
system. Classes cancelled for useless drills of "Nuclear Alarms".
Or "Agricultural Work".
No, it was not so long ago.
>related to your major only, whereas here you have to take many classes
>outside of your major (since universities should provide "universal" education).
>
> [...]
>
>> Also the degrees in the context of Western society have completely
>> different meaning/function than in Communist/Postcommunist
>> society. Some people from Eastern Europe are at great pains with
>> realising that.
>
> Realizing what?
>
>> Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
>
> Very true. Naturally, a Slovak student during 5 years is to
---------
You might think so.
>learn much more advanced stuff than an American during 4 years. See the
>above argument. This may be different for top institutions but I guess
You would have to prove the validity of the above argument first.
>we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as far as
>physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
Please dont consider natural sciences as something absolute.
Listening to what you talk here, I dare to assume that you claim
some degree from natural sciences.
In the end, they are just auxiliary sciences for engineering.
>prepared for the job than an American Bachelor of Science.
Sure. Thats why we should stop them from entering Western markets!
We are not complete fools to lose our jobs:-)
>> Note:
>>
>> the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>> was to be a *communist*.
>> So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>> was/is a communist.
>
> IMHO, this is not true; it may be true for some CSc's, maybe for majority
>of CSc's, but definitely not for all CSc's as your phrase "absolutely
>necessary condition" says. It may have been so earlier but certainly not
>in the (late) 1980s.
Mr. Hajek already presented some evidence, mea culpa.
Alexander
>
>Peter Hakel
>.
>.
Ross Hedvicek
>From: Alexander Kiefer <KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca>
>Date: 10 AUG 95 14:28:22 EDT
>In article <rcjanh.130...@urc.tue.nl> rcj...@urc.tue.nl (J. Hajek) writes:
>>In article <naafetee.10...@hookup.net> naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek) writes:
>>>
>>>Ooooooh, you mean that DrSc does NOT produce excrement of higher quality and
>>>more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
>>
>>Not necessarily, but their xcrements looked more pleasant because of
>>the little red flags they have erected at the top of their "work".
>>
>>>fine in that Czechoslovakistan, you know, it was almost better than cast
>>>system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>>>
>>>>Note:
>>>
>>>>the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>>>>was to be a *communist*.
>>>>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>>>>was/is a communist.
>>
>>Im not yet convinced, because the only CSc with whom Ive established
>>contact after the velvet contarrevolution, really seems to be a
>>noncommie (Ive put him through dozens of tests over a couple of years).
>>Probably in some cases a noncommie candidate for a CSc had to wait say 8
>>years longer than a commie shit had to wait.
>>Any learned comments ? J.
>Dammed, what fraction of the total did they constitute?
>If talking of this, there is also some probability that the child
>born from black parents can be white. No, no, no hidden white
>ancestors. Just like that!
>Next time, I suppose, we could "our" doctorlets hear claiming
>black ancestry.
That's not comparable, Alexander, no way. Possibility of white child from
black parents is much higher than possibility of "doctorlets" not being soiled
by commie shit (one way or other). Elvis can be seen daily in Kalamazoo Burger
King, yes I can believe that - but anti-communist CsC??? Excuuuseee meeeee!!!!
>Alexander
>>>Yep, once communist - always communist.
>>>
>>>>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>>>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>>>
>>>>Indeed.
>>>
>>>>Alexander
>>>
>>>Rosta naaf...@hookup.net
Peter Habala
> >Wrong, wrong and again wrong. I know personally a few CsC. which have never
> >been communists, actually just opposite.>
> Brekiki breky brek! Jste osklivi, ano OSKLIVI!!! Takhle sproste rikat pravdu
> nekomu do obliceje!!
Ano, Rossi, tohle presne vyjadruje tvou reakci. Placnul jsi, ze
vsichni CSc byli komousi (podporen zdatne p. Kieferem), a kdyz ti
nekdo dokaze, ze to neni pravda (mimochodem, zajed si pres WWW na
matfyzacky site v Praze a porovnej si seznamy CSc a seznamy komousu),
tak leziz na zemi a kopes kolem sebe. Fuj, takovy velky hoch a stale
se chova jako male dite. Ano, je to kruty svet. Lidi jsou osklivi,
a kdyz Ross placne vedle, nerozpakuji se mu rici pravdu do obliceje.
Mimochodem, muzes to brat jako dalsi odpoved na tvou vyzvu, at ti
rekneme, kdy nemas pravdu. Doufam, ze si sve omyly nezalohujes,
to bys potreboval MOOOOC veliky HD :-)).
pH, i.m.
Ross Hedvicek
>From: kov...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (Zdislav V. Kovarik)
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>I remember a student (a few years ago) coming for advice whether to take
>one of my math courses or not, in particular whether it will improve his
>chances for employment. After some discussion, he paused and asked me
>directly: "And have you ever had a job?"
>Slavek (ZVK)
Vy jste to definoval lip nez ja. Dekuji. :-)))
Tomas Chylek
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.95080...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu>,
>Peter Hakel <ha...@scs.unr.edu> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Western (American) school/economical system is significantly different
>>> from Communist/Postcommunist system.
>>
>> The difference is not between East-West, but between Europe-North America.
>>taught here during first two college years. In Europe you take classes
>
>Only in the case of good student. For majority of students here, this
>should be "first four or five college years".
>
Don't forget that they must make up for what they have missed during high
school. European students simply come to universities with far more knowledge
which allows them to focus on their particular major right away.
>
>>
>> Very true. Naturally, a Slovak student during 5 years is to
>>learn much more advanced stuff than an American during 4 years. See the
>>above argument. This may be different for top institutions but I guess
>>we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as far as
>>physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
>>prepared for the job than an American Bachelor of Science.
>
>It would certainly be sad if he was not. Magistr doesn't correspond to
>bachelor. Bachelor is "bakalar". Magistr is about the same as Master.
>
>
This is officially not true. They say U.S. bachelor correspond to czech
Master (Ing., RnDr.... etc., whatever is obtained after 5 year college).
At least they usually treat you like this at U.S. schools. This seems to be
in contradiction to what I wrote above about handicap of U.S. high school
graduates. But they are most probably much more devoted to their study than
typical czech student, who can't expect to be able to support his family
from the starting salary after his graduation.
tom
Martin Holly
: the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
: was to be a *communist*.
: So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
: was/is a communist.
To je jeden velky omyl. Takmer by som povedal ze
nedorozumenie. Na docenta si musel odsediet VUML, na CSc
nie.
Majme sa fajn,
Martin.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=- Martin Holly, ma...@isr.uni-stuttgart.de -=-=-=-=-=-=-
=- Allmandring I, Zimmer 20 D 2, Vaihingen, 70569 Stuttgart, FRG -=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ross Hedvicek
>From: Jan Ilavsky <Jan.I...@nist.gov>
>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek) wrote:
>>In article <08AUG95.14...@music.mus.polymtl.ca> Alexander Kiefer <KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca> writes:
>>>From: Alexander Kiefer <KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca>
>>>Subject: Re: akademici podla p. Hedvicka - DEFINICE!
>>>Date: 08 AUG 95 13:01:05 EDT
>>
>>>Also the degrees in the context of Western society have completely
>>>different meaning/function than in Communist/Postcommunist
>>>society. Some people from Eastern Europe are at great pains with
>>>realising that.
>>>Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
>Agreed, quite often it currently in US means disqualification in a job market.
>>
>>Ooooooh, you mean that DrSc does NOT produce excrement of higher quality and
>>more pleasant smell than the others? How disappointing!!! It was working so
>>fine in that Czechoslovakistan, you know, it was almost better than cast
>>system in India!!! And now this... :-(((((((
>>
>This is total BS, BS, and once more BS. The Czechoslovak social system
>(if that's what by this stupid paragraf suppose to comment) was much more equal
>then current system in the U.S. And, BTW, the ones highest in the social
>level in Soc. Czechoslovakia used to be butchers, plumbers, and other
>"working class" you idiot.
Sounds familiar - class envy? Malomestakum a skudlilum ukazeme!!!
>Read your friends Lenin, Marx and Engels.
>CsC. were on the end of the social structure, because they did not make
>(actually "produce") anything... Why are you trying to change history??????
>It's bad enough as it is.
>>
>>>Note:
>>
>>>the absolutely necessary condition to even sniff to the CsC degree
>>>was to be a *communist*.
>>>So dear Western friends, if you meet some (former) CsC, he
>>>was/is a communist.
>>
>>Yep, once communist - always communist.
>>
>Wrong, wrong and again wrong. I know personally a few CsC. which have never
>been communists, actually just opposite. It took them longer, with much more
>pain and work, they had to be gooood (best by a lot around) to get the CsC.,
>but your sweeping judgement is totaly wrong...
What you will do if we will not stop it? Lay on the floor, kick your feet and
cry?
>>>>Jinak Tva definice akademika je do jiste miry spravna (co se tyce clenstvi ve
>>>>vybranych politickych stranach).
>>
>Akademik neznamena CsC. Bylo mnohem vice CsC. (stejne jako je Ph.D.) nez akademiku.
>Zkuste se domluvit na terminech. Akademici byli normalne Dr.Sc. (jestli jsem trefil
>speling). Vetsinou komunisti, to je pravda, ale i tam byly svetle vyjimky (znam osobne -
>misto za zhruba rok od podani to tlacil skrz system 7 let, ale dostal to skrz,
>protoze to bylo v jeho oboru to nejlepsi co se u nas udelalo za poslednich 20 let)...
>Vas zivot je jednoduchy - vsichni byli a jsou komunisti, byli a jsou spatni,
>jen vy jste genialni a delate a delali jste to dobre.
>Vas zivot musi byt neuveritelne jednoduchy,
>skoro Vam zavidim, i kdyz, na druhou stranu, psat takove nesmysly,
>co Vy pisete, to snad radsi ne...
Brekiki breky brek! Jste osklivi, ano OSKLIVI!!! Takhle sproste rikat pravdu
nekomu do obliceje!! To se mezi slusnymi lidmi nedela!! Ja vas vsechny
nenavidim!!! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! Hauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!
>Honza
Ross Hedvicek
>From: Jan Ilavsky <Jan.I...@nist.gov>
>naaf...@hookup.net (Ross Hedvicek) wrote:
>>Prevezmete to tady nekdo za mne - mne prave ranila mrtvice!!!
>>
>No konecne, to to trvalo. Prispeju na venec....
>Honza
Ilave jsem unikl - s Ilavskym uz si nejak poradim. :-)
Vertech
> >
> >PS: Although Im sure Occident and Orient require the capital O, Im not
> > too sure that Occidental and Oriental do require it as well; I guess
> > they do.
>
> Gee you've got me here. I'd say, even the adjectives get capitalized,
> just like American turkey or German angst.
>
> Paul JK
>
Actually, not. But even after you get oriented it COULD happen by occident.
Peg
VERTECH
1015 18th St.NW Suite 403 Washington, DC 20036
Tel.202/331-4956 Fax 202/659-2724 email ver...@cpcug.org
Peter Hakel
[...]
> >What we learn at high school level (general education in math, physics,
> --
>
> Eastern Europe with its Post/Communist character should be rather
> called Russiopa. It is very far from being integrated into European
> economic/cultural structures. (Yep, I know, tomorrow, ...)
I did not talk about integration. I only made some comparisons.
> >chemistry, biology, history, native language and foreign languages) is
> >taught here during first two college years. In Europe you take classes
> ------
>
> Again bull. People who come at present from East to study on Western
> Universities spent numerous hours being taught "Citizen Education",
> "Marx-Leninism", "Military Education" at any level in the educational
> system. Classes cancelled for useless drills of "Nuclear Alarms".
> Or "Agricultural Work".
> No, it was not so long ago.
I came at present from East to study on a Western University but I did
not take a single lecture in "Marx-Leninism" nor "Military Education."
All these were cancelled right after November 1989. You may want to
update your knowledge about CZ/SK universities.
The class called "Citizen Education" was taught in elementary and
secondary schools but never in "numerous hours." The drills you mention
took about one week per term and the cancelled lectures had to be made
up. I'm talking out of my own experience, i.e. about the 1980s.
Therefore your statements do not invalidate mine.
[...]
> >> Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
> >
> > Very true. Naturally, a Slovak student during 5 years is to
> ---------
>
> You might think so.
You bet I do. I did not write a Slovak student "learned" much more
advanced stuff but "was expected" to do so. We are discussing education
systems here, not individual people who may not learn anything in
either system because of their attitude.
> >learn much more advanced stuff than an American during 4 years. See the
> >above argument. This may be different for top institutions but I guess
>
> You would have to prove the validity of the above argument first.
Own experience from Comenius University Bratislava compared to the
University of Nevada, Reno. Do you want me to post their physics curricula?
> >we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as far as
> >physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
>
> Please dont consider natural sciences as something absolute.
Did I write anywhere anything like that? I write about physics because
that's my experience. I do not know anything about economics so I don't
write about it.
[...]
> In the end, they are just auxiliary sciences for engineering.
All people THINK that their occupations are the most important of all.
Physicists KNOW they are right. :-)
Engineering is just an auxiliary field for, for instance, banking industry.
The validity of your statement is thus relative.
> >prepared for the job than an American Bachelor of Science.
>
> Sure. Thats why we should stop them from entering Western markets!
> We are not complete fools to lose our jobs:-)
Seems you are afraid of competition. :-) So who should the East learn
capitalism from?
[...]
Peter Hakel
Alexander Kiefer
>On 10 Aug 1995, Alexander Kiefer wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> >What we learn at high school level (general education in math, physics,
>> --
>>
>> Eastern Europe with its Post/Communist character should be rather
>> called Russiopa. It is very far from being integrated into European
>> economic/cultural structures. (Yep, I know, tomorrow, ...)
>
> I did not talk about integration. I only made some comparisons.
>
>> >chemistry, biology, history, native language and foreign languages) is
>> >taught here during first two college years. In Europe you take classes
>> ------
>>
>> Again bull. People who come at present from East to study on Western
>> Universities spent numerous hours being taught "Citizen Education",
>> "Marx-Leninism", "Military Education" at any level in the educational
>> system. Classes cancelled for useless drills of "Nuclear Alarms".
>> Or "Agricultural Work".
>> No, it was not so long ago.
>
> I came at present from East to study on a Western University but I did
>not take a single lecture in "Marx-Leninism" nor "Military Education."
Seems you are "bit too young" for certain judgements.
>All these were cancelled right after November 1989. You may want to
>update your knowledge about CZ/SK universities.
>
> The class called "Citizen Education" was taught in elementary and
>secondary schools but never in "numerous hours." The drills you mention
>took about one week per term and the cancelled lectures had to be made
>up. I'm talking out of my own experience, i.e. about the 1980s.
Silly indeed. I can talk from my own experience too!
> Therefore your statements do not invalidate mine.
But your statements contradict mine.
>> >> Degree doesnt equal qualification!!!
>> >
>> > Very true. Naturally, a Slovak student during 5 years is to
>> ---------
>>
>> You might think so.
>
> You bet I do. I did not write a Slovak student "learned" much more
------------------
>advanced stuff but "was expected" to do so. We are discussing education
------------
The system which doesnt address the real capabilities of students
is worthless.
>systems here, not individual people who may not learn anything in
-----------------------------------
System serves people! But the bottom line is, that individual
people like you are implicit to our discussion.
>either system because of their attitude.
Or those, who might even learn something due to their attitude.
School systems are very much about developing attitudes. The rest
is up to the students.
>> >learn much more advanced stuff than an American during 4 years. See the
>> >above argument. This may be different for top institutions but I guess
>>
>> You would have to prove the validity of the above argument first.
>
> Own experience from Comenius University Bratislava compared to the
>University of Nevada, Reno. Do you want me to post their physics curricula?
How does the Reno University rank?
And how does Commenius University rank?
Shouldnt you be rather comparing Commenius University to MIT?
>> >we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as far as
---------------------------------------------
>> >physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
There, and than you compare "some" two Universities.
>> Please dont consider natural sciences as something absolute.
>
> Did I write anywhere anything like that? I write about physics because
>that's my experience. I do not know anything about economics so I don't
>write about it.
Now do you know something about structural materials:-)
Just as important as Ohms Law or General Theory of Relativity!
>> In the end, they are just auxiliary sciences for engineering.
>
> All people THINK that their occupations are the most important of all.
-----------------
Yup, how do those "Physicists" participate in creation of GNP?
>Physicists KNOW they are right. :-)
Maybe they just never saw anything else:-)
> Engineering is just an auxiliary field for, for instance, banking industry.
>The validity of your statement is thus relative.
Banking??? And we all are an auxiliary field for our Governments!
>> >prepared for the job than an American Bachelor of Science.
>>
>> Sure. Thats why we should stop them from entering Western markets!
>> We are not complete fools to lose our jobs:-)
>
> Seems you are afraid of competition. :-) So who should the East learn
---------------------
Not at all. There are numerous way how to get rid of undesirable
competition!
>capitalism from?
Ask in India, Arab countries, Russia , Iran, Brasil, Mexico ...
You know, we care about Mexico:-)
Alexander
Peter Hakel
[...]
> >> Again bull. People who come at present from East to study on Western
^^^^^^^^^^
> >> Universities spent numerous hours being taught "Citizen Education",
> >> "Marx-Leninism", "Military Education" at any level in the educational
[...]
> > I came at present from East to study on a Western University but I did
> >not take a single lecture in "Marx-Leninism" nor "Military Education."
>
> Seems you are "bit too young" for certain judgements.
I'd say you must be "bit too old" for certain judgements. BTW, what is
your definition of "at present?" Having come here a year ago, do I
qualify? If so, your statement is proven incorrect. You know, one
counterexample is enough to invalidate an assertion.
[...]
> >up. I'm talking out of my own experience, i.e. about the 1980s.
>
> Silly indeed. I can talk from my own experience too!
I explicitly specified the years I was talking about in order to avoid
the above comment of yours. Didn't work. :-(
Or are you 20-something too?
> > Therefore your statements do not invalidate mine.
>
> But your statements contradict mine.
Yes, which means yours are incorrect.
[...]
> > You bet I do. I did not write a Slovak student "learned" much more
> ------------------
> >advanced stuff but "was expected" to do so. We are discussing education
> ------------
>
> The system which doesnt address the real capabilities of students
> is worthless.
What do you mean by "addressing?" Are you saying that in order to have a
good system universities should lower their requirements for conferring
degrees, if there is lack of students capable to comply with the
original higher standards? What about giving an M.D. to a student who
failed anatomy? It was not his fault, it was the system's imperfection
that it had not addressed the student's real capabilities.
> >systems here, not individual people who may not learn anything in
> -----------------------------------
>
> System serves people!
Yes, for instance by producing doctors with appropriate credentials.
> But the bottom line is, that individual
> people like you are implicit to our discussion.
I must admit my limited comprehension of English at this point.
Was that a flame or a compliment?
> >either system because of their attitude.
>
> Or those, who might even learn something due to their attitude.
> School systems are very much about developing attitudes. The rest
> is up to the students.
I agree.
[...]
> How does the Reno University rank?
> And how does Commenius University rank?
> Shouldnt you be rather comparing Commenius University to MIT?
> >> >we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as
far as > ---------------------------------------------
> >> >physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
>
> There, and than you compare "some" two Universities.
YOUR statements were general, not mine. See above about a counterexample.
And I repeat, that I do not write about things I know nothing about. Thus
I can't answer your question about MIT. I can only guess, that MIT's and
Comenius U.'s curricula are comparable. If this is true, I'm still right,
because you argued that Eastern degrees are less worth than American ones.
Although you are wrong about CZ/SK colleges, you still may be right if
you took some other Eastern country. I made one comparison, you may try
to check, let's say, some university in Albania, and compare it to MIT.
No offense meant to Albanians, just a suggestion for you, Mr. Kiefer.
> >> Please dont consider natural sciences as something absolute.
> >
> > Did I write anywhere anything like that? I write about physics because
> >that's my experience. I do not know anything about economics so I don't
> >write about it.
>
> Now do you know something about structural materials:-)
> Just as important as Ohms Law or General Theory of Relativity!
What does this have to do with our discussion about college degrees?
I confess I do not know anything about structural materials. I hope it
will help you sleep better. :-)
Importance of any field is relative. For example, structural materials and
Ohm's law are equally important for a composer using counterpoint.
This may be different for a power plant technician or a physicist
studying something not related to material science.
Relativity is central here, as you can see. So do not compare its
importance with "structural materials." :-)
with > >> In the end, they are just auxiliary sciences for engineering.
> >
> > All people THINK that their occupations are the most important of all.
> -----------------
>
> Yup, how do those "Physicists" participate in creation of GNP?
Indirectly by providing knowledge for engineers who can apply it in
practice.
> >Physicists KNOW they are right. :-)
>
> Maybe they just never saw anything else:-)
They know they don't have to. :-)
> > Engineering is just an auxiliary field for, for instance, banking industry.
> >The validity of your statement is thus relative.
>
> Banking???
Yes. Do you think that employees who studied business administration
design their offices, buildings, and plug in their computers?
> And we all are an auxiliary field for our Governments!
Everybody serves everybody, and so does (should) the government. It's
called division of labor.
[...]
> > Seems you are afraid of competition. :-) So who should the East learn
> ---------------------
>
> Not at all. There are numerous way how to get rid of undesirable
> competition!
Yes, "Auslaender raus!" is one of them. :-(
> >capitalism from?
>
> Ask in India, Arab countries, Russia , Iran, Brasil, Mexico ...
> You know, we care about Mexico:-)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When did Canada become the 51st state? :-)
Besides that, thanks for "advice."
> Alexander
Peter Hakel
Alexander Kiefer
>On 12 Aug 1995, Alexander Kiefer wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> >> Again bull. People who come at present from East to study on Western
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> Universities spent numerous hours being taught "Citizen Education",
>> >> "Marx-Leninism", "Military Education" at any level in the educational
>
> [...]
>
>> > I came at present from East to study on a Western University but I did
>> >not take a single lecture in "Marx-Leninism" nor "Military Education."
>>
>> Seems you are "bit too young" for certain judgements.
>
> I'd say you must be "bit too old" for certain judgements. BTW, what is
>your definition of "at present?" Having come here a year ago, do I
---------------------------------
>qualify? If so, your statement is proven incorrect. You know, one
---------
You are completely disqualified from putting your judgement on
anything American.
>counterexample is enough to invalidate an assertion.
>
> [...]
>
>> >up. I'm talking out of my own experience, i.e. about the 1980s.
>>
>> Silly indeed. I can talk from my own experience too!
>
> I explicitly specified the years I was talking about in order to avoid
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>the above comment of yours. Didn't work. :-(
---------------------------------------------
> Or are you 20-something too?
I do have my experience from 1980ties. Calculate my age for yourself.
It is just your "Eastern-trickster" nature which made you produce
the above statement.
>> > Therefore your statements do not invalidate mine.
>>
>> But your statements contradict mine.
>
>Yes, which means yours are incorrect.
Yours two above statements
1. You live 1yr in States and judge the American school system,
2. You have utter contempt for my statements (not all the people
necessarily lie),
prove your credibility and attitude.
>> > You bet I do. I did not write a Slovak student "learned" much more
>> ------------------
>> >advanced stuff but "was expected" to do so. We are discussing education
>> ------------
>>
>> The system which doesnt address the real capabilities of students
>> is worthless.
>
> What do you mean by "addressing?" Are you saying that in order to have a
>good system universities should lower their requirements for conferring
>degrees, if there is lack of students capable to comply with the
>original higher standards? What about giving an M.D. to a student who
>failed anatomy? It was not his fault, it was the system's imperfection
He might equally pass without learning his stuff. Might be even
more dangerous than your case.
But thats au dehors de question.
For the criteria to have any meaning it is important that they
address the real capabilities of the students. To motivate the
student is more important that to make him "know the stuff". The
primary objective is to develop his creative thinking.
>that it had not addressed the student's real capabilities.
Reread what you wrote before. You wanted to measure the quality of
the schoolsystem by what students *are expected to learn*, not by
what they *really learn*.
>> >systems here, not individual people who may not learn anything in
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> System serves people!
>
> Yes, for instance by producing doctors with appropriate credentials.
Again, appropriate qualification is based on what an MD *learned*,
not by what he was *expected to learn*.
>> But the bottom line is, that individual
>> people like you are implicit to our discussion.
>
> I must admit my limited comprehension of English at this point.
>Was that a flame or a compliment?
If would have taken it as a compliment, it would have shown just
how arrogant you are. (1yr in States.)
>> >either system because of their attitude.
>>
>> Or those, who might even learn something due to their attitude.
>> School systems are very much about developing attitudes. The rest
>> is up to the students.
>
> I agree.
My dear. You invalidate by those two simple words everything
you wrote above. A beam of light in the darkness.
And this statement came together with the one right above.
Together they might make more sense to you.
>
>> How does the Reno University rank?
>> And how does Commenius University rank?
>> Shouldnt you be rather comparing Commenius University to MIT?
>> >> >we're talking about some sort of average here. Thus, at least as
>far as > ---------------------------------------------
>> >> >physics is concerned, a Slovak graduate (magister) is much better
>>
>> There, and than you compare "some" two Universities.
>
> YOUR statements were general, not mine. See above about a counterexample.
>And I repeat, that I do not write about things I know nothing about. Thus
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose, all you wanted to say is how Commenius University
compares with Reno University.
Yup. Than dont tell anything about schoolsystems comparison.
Or Eastern and American schoolsystem.
Just Commenius and Reno! Nothing more.
>I can't answer your question about MIT. I can only guess, that MIT's and
>Comenius U.'s curricula are comparable. If this is true, I'm still right,
>because you argued that Eastern degrees are less worth than American ones.
------------------------------------------------------------
Just Reno and Commenius. (You were accusing *ME* of generalizations.)
>
> Although you are wrong about CZ/SK colleges, you still may be right if
-------------------------------------------
No colleges, just Reno and Commenius. No generalizations!
>you took some other Eastern country. I made one comparison, you may try
>to check, let's say, some university in Albania, and compare it to MIT.
>No offense meant to Albanians, just a suggestion for you, Mr. Kiefer.
You have not moral right to make such statements.
Neither you have any fact to validate them.
>> >> Please dont consider natural sciences as something absolute.
>> >
>> > Did I write anywhere anything like that? I write about physics because
>> >that's my experience. I do not know anything about economics so I don't
>> >write about it.
>>
>> Now do you know something about structural materials:-)
>> Just as important as Ohms Law or General Theory of Relativity!
>
> What does this have to do with our discussion about college degrees?
>
> I confess I do not know anything about structural materials. I hope it
>will help you sleep better. :-)
But I do know *a lot* about Ohms Law and General Theory of Relativity.
Got it?
> Importance of any field is relative. For example, structural materials and
>Ohm's law are equally important for a composer using counterpoint.
>This may be different for a power plant technician or a physicist
>studying something not related to material science.
By not related to material science you probably mean social sciences:-)
> Relativity is central here, as you can see. So do not compare its
>importance with "structural materials." :-)
Material science is as much important as The General Theory
Relativity. What do you mean by "relativity"?
Truly ignorant statement of yours.
>
>with > >> In the end, they are just auxiliary sciences for engineering.
>> >
>> > All people THINK that their occupations are the most important of all.
>> -----------------
>>
>> Yup, how do those "Physicists" participate in creation of GNP?
>
> Indirectly by providing knowledge for engineers who can apply it in
>practice.
Since material science is the basis of engineering, and above you
disclosed its full ignorance, I might conclude that your
"indirect contribution" to engineering is/will be zero.
>> >Physicists KNOW they are right. :-)
>>
>> Maybe they just never saw anything else:-)
>
> They know they don't have to. :-)
I am sure you do!
>> > Engineering is just an auxiliary field for, for instance, banking industry.
>> >The validity of your statement is thus relative.
>>
>> Banking???
>
> Yes. Do you think that employees who studied business administration
>design their offices, buildings, and plug in their computers?
Rhetoric question, if they dont plug their computers in, what will
happen?
Do you think that society couldnt exist without MDs?
And, an average engineer has pretty good knowledge in management.
(Some in medical science, e.g. myself, too)
>> And we all are an auxiliary field for our Governments!
>
> Everybody serves everybody, and so does (should) the government. It's
>called division of labor.
You got something principally wrong. Not that evreryone serves
someone. In the case of government it is:
THE GOVERNMENT WHO SERVES THE PEOPLE
AND NEVER OPPOSITE.
I suggest you talk to other students who spent more that 1yr in
States and discuss with them the essential principles of democracy.
Your thinking "Eastern-Trickster" reflects some distortions
imprinted onto you in the early age.
>> > Seems you are afraid of competition. :-) So who should the East learn
>> ---------------------
>>
>> Not at all. There are numerous way how to get rid of undesirable
>> competition!
>
> Yes, "Auslaender raus!" is one of them. :-(
Hmm, how do the Ausslander fare in Slovakia?
Did you hear the Slovak Government shouting "Ausslander in!"
I see no coflict when people without legal status are being
deported from any concerned country. Point!
If you understant it as "Ausslander raus!", so be it.
Dont tell me again that I have "no experience".
>> >capitalism from?
>>
>> Ask in India, Arab countries, Russia , Iran, Brasil, Mexico ...
>> You know, we care about Mexico:-)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> When did Canada become the 51st state? :-)
We are not the 51st state. We are the 1st state. State of Canada.
Ever heard about NAFTA? (clue, it is not Diesel fuel :-) )
> Besides that, thanks for "advice."
Hope it was the final one.
Alexander
Jan Hlavacek
Zdislav V. Kovarik <kov...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> wrote:
>
Do you know what B.S. stands for? Bullshit. I just learnd it from one
of my students. :-)
Jan Hlavacek
>
>This is officially not true. They say U.S. bachelor correspond to czech
>Master (Ing., RnDr.... etc., whatever is obtained after 5 year college).
>At least they usually treat you like this at U.S. schools.
I'm not sure what is my official degree here, but they treatad me like a
Master from the first day I came here. No wonder. Master degree at
our deparment is given to the people who cannot pass PhD qualiffying
exam (the first requirement of the PhD. programm). This exam can be
compared to the finals in analysis and algebra at the end of the
second year of study. It follows that nearly everybody who gets a bakalar
degree from MFF UK in Prague would be able to pass the qualifiers.
>This seems to be
>in contradiction to what I wrote above about handicap of U.S. high school
>graduates. But they are most probably much more devoted to their study than
>typical czech student, who can't expect to be able to support his family
>from the starting salary after his graduation.
>
>tom
>
This is probably true, but, unfortunately, devotion isn't everything.
They really want to get degree, they really want to "learn" a lot of
stuff, and they are willing to put a lot of effort into it. The
problem is, they want to do it without using their brains. :-(
Boris Rajek
[deleted]
[someone wrote]:
: >you took some other Eastern country. I made one comparison, you may try
: >to check, let's say, some university in Albania, and compare it to MIT.
: >No offense meant to Albanians, just a suggestion for you, Mr. Kiefer.
: You have not moral right to make such statements.
Well, here we go again. :-(
It seems, somebody (in this case Mr. Kiefer),
is deciding, what moral rights (to make statements),
other participants have.
Fortunatelly, Mr. Kiefer has a right to speak.
Fortunatelly, he doesn't have a right (power)
to censor other contributions, as it seems,
he would like to. :-(
[deleted]
Boris
ra...@netcom.com
Radomir &
> From: lah...@math.ohio-state.edu (Jan Hlavacek)
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l,soc.culture.czecho-slovak
> Date: 13 Aug 1995 16:12:42 -0400
> Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
>
> In article <40d5rq$i...@maui.cc.odu.edu>, Tomas Chylek <tomas> wrote:
> >
> >This is officially not true. They say U.S. bachelor correspond to czech
> >Master (Ing., RnDr.... etc., whatever is obtained after 5 year college).
> >At least they usually treat you like this at U.S. schools.
>
> I'm not sure what is my official degree here, but they treatad me like a
> Master from the first day I came here. No wonder. Master degree at
> our deparment is given to the people who cannot pass PhD qualiffying
> exam (the first requirement of the PhD. programm). This exam can be
> compared to the finals in analysis and algebra at the end of the
> second year of study. It follows that nearly everybody who gets a bakalar
> degree from MFF UK in Prague would be able to pass the qualifiers.
>
Not any more. Now they have established a separate bachelor program with a way
easier requirements than there are in the first two years of master study.
Kinda funny, you have to choose between those two programs and it is not easy
to switch to masters after finishing the bachelor degree.
Radek
Alexander Kiefer
>Alexander Kiefer (KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca) wrote:
>
>[deleted]
>
>[someone wrote]:
>
>: >to check, let's say, some university in Albania, and compare it to MIT.
>: >No offense meant to Albanians, just a suggestion for you, Mr. Kiefer.
>
>: You have not moral right to make such statements.
>
>Well, here we go again. :-(
>
>It seems, somebody (in this case Mr. Kiefer),
>is deciding, what moral rights (to make statements),
>other participants have.
>
>Fortunatelly, Mr. Kiefer has a right to speak.
>Fortunatelly, he doesn't have a right (power)
>to censor other contributions, as it seems,
>he would like to. :-(
Moral right implying *censorship*?
If not guilty, why would the original poster in one
sentence propose something and in the following appologize
for it? Hardly a consistent attitude!
Like saying, someone is a moron, but no offence meant to him.
Let *him* explain why he did it.
Alexander
Peter Hakel
I rather prefer to be called inconsistent for showing some politeness than
to be perfectly consistent in being rude like you.
I supported my statements with one example, you provided none.
Sometimes what happens is that people misunderstand each other because
they are talking about different things ("ja o voze, ty o koze"). We both
may be right, and I proposed you a way to prove your assertions. The
Albanians entered our discussion through no fault of their own, so I
"apologized" to them.
I wanted to ease the tone of our discussion and what I get in return
from you is this... :-(
Peter Hakel
Peter Hakel
[...]
> >> >> Again bull. People who come at present from East to study on Western
> > ^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >> Universities spent numerous hours being taught "Citizen Education",
> >> >> "Marx-Leninism", "Military Education" at any level in the educational
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> > I came at present from East to study on a Western University but I did
> >> >not take a single lecture in "Marx-Leninism" nor "Military Education."
> >>
> >> Seems you are "bit too young" for certain judgements.
> >
> > I'd say you must be "bit too old" for certain judgements. BTW, what is
>
> >your definition of "at present?" Having come here a year ago, do I
> ---------------------------------
> >qualify? If so, your statement is proven incorrect. You know, one
> ---------
>
> You are completely disqualified from putting your judgement on
> anything American.
Really "anything?" Another general statement of yours; yet you accused
me of doing so (those are your words, full credit given).
You stated that people coming "at present" from the East had studied
Marx-Leninism and Military Education. I disagreed (politely), saying it
is not true anymore, and mentioned myself as an example. In order to
clarify terms I asked what you understood under the term "at present."
You ignored this question (I'm wondering why), and instead of answering
it you challenged my "qualification" on the grounds of the length of my
stay here. Very original way of conducting a discussion.
> >counterexample is enough to invalidate an assertion.
[...]
> I do have my experience from 1980ties. Calculate my age for yourself.
> It is just your "Eastern-trickster" nature which made you produce
> the above statement.
Another insult.
In fact, since we both have experienced the Eastern school system
during the same period, and I have an "Eastern-trickster" nature, then one
might expect the same kind of nature in your case. Maybe your experience
was not long enough to leave such damaging results, but then you are not
qualified to judge the Eastern school system.
[...]
> Yours two above statements
> 1. You live 1yr in States and judge the American school system,
I do not rely on my experience only. I talked to other people from
other countries, and they have the same opinion. I remember
the interview with Jozef(?) Ftacnik (expert in computer physics) in Slovak
press after his return from post-doc program in Chicago.
It's 2:0 in terms of particular examples, please try to catch up.
> 2. You have utter contempt for my statements (not all the people
> necessarily lie),
You are upgrading your word choice; well, you have the right to do so.
Again: Your experience is different from mine, and that's
fine. Both of them have limited validity in space and time. You either
ignored or did not realized that and consequently made inappropriate
generalizations. This is what I am criticizing.
> prove your credibility and attitude.
It's your turn.
> >> > You bet I do. I did not write a Slovak student "learned" much more
> >> ------------------
> >> >advanced stuff but "was expected" to do so. We are discussing education
> >> ------------
> >>
> >> The system which doesnt address the real capabilities of students
> >> is worthless.
> >
> > What do you mean by "addressing?" Are you saying that in order to have a
> >good system universities should lower their requirements for conferring
> >degrees, if there is lack of students capable to comply with the
> >original higher standards? What about giving an M.D. to a student who
> >failed anatomy? It was not his fault, it was the system's imperfection
>
> He might equally pass without learning his stuff. Might be even
> more dangerous than your case.
> But thats au dehors de question.
If so, why do you write it here then?
Actually, you admit that the bandwith you provide is not necessarily
relevant to the discussion. "A beam of light in the darkness."
> For the criteria to have any meaning it is important that they
> address the real capabilities of the students. To motivate the
> student is more important that to make him "know the stuff". The
> primary objective is to develop his creative thinking.
Aha, so it's more important to teach a nurse to develop her creative
thinking rather than the fact she should not inject air into a patient's
vein. And that definitely is, as you write, a dangerous case.
> >that it had not addressed the student's real capabilities.
>
> Reread what you wrote before. You wanted to measure the quality of
> the schoolsystem by what students *are expected to learn*, not by
> what they *really learn*.
ROTFL! The previous paragraph I wrote was based on YOUR assumptions to
illustrate their "validity." And here you go refuting it. Actually, it's
my fault. I should have put a smiley there to make sure you would get it.
> >> >systems here, not individual people who may not learn anything in
> >> -----------------------------------
> >>
> >> System serves people!
> >
> > Yes, for instance by producing doctors with appropriate credentials.
>
> Again, appropriate qualification is based on what an MD *learned*,
> not by what he was *expected to learn*.
You seem to be obsessed with the phrase "expected to learn."
I used it on order to avoid a general statement "Slovak students learn."
Unlike you, I don't want to use such statements simply because they are
incorrect in most cases. Had I written it that way, you would have asked
me whether 100% freshmen actually graduated, and whether those who did
really had learned the stuff instead of getting the degree "for free."
In fact, you did write something like that, about an MD goetting the
degree "without learning his stuff."
[...]
> >Was that a flame or a compliment?
>
> If would have taken it as a compliment, it would have shown just
> how arrogant you are. (1yr in States.)
I did not take it as a compliment, so nothing showed anything.
Sorry to disappoint you. This response of yours is really childish.
> >> >either system because of their attitude.
> >>
> >> Or those, who might even learn something due to their attitude.
> >> School systems are very much about developing attitudes. The rest
> >> is up to the students.
> >
> > I agree.
>
> My dear. You invalidate by those two simple words everything
> you wrote above. A beam of light in the darkness.
> And this statement came together with the one right above.
> Together they might make more sense to you.
What was right above was shown wrong with your own words.
[...]
> I suppose, all you wanted to say is how Commenius University
> compares with Reno University.
> Yup. Than dont tell anything about schoolsystems comparison.
> Or Eastern and American schoolsystem.
> Just Commenius and Reno! Nothing more.
Maybe. However, still better than not providing any proof at all, which
is what you like to do. See above.
> >I can't answer your question about MIT. I can only guess, that MIT's and
> >Comenius U.'s curricula are comparable. If this is true, I'm still right,
> >because you argued that Eastern degrees are less worth than American ones.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Just Reno and Commenius. (You were accusing *ME* of generalizations.)
>
> >
> > Although you are wrong about CZ/SK colleges, you still may be right if
> -------------------------------------------
>
> No colleges, just Reno and Commenius. No generalizations!
Zlodej krici: Chytte zlodeja!
A thief screams: Get the thief! ,a literal translation of a Slovak saying.
> >you took some other Eastern country. I made one comparison, you may try
> >to check, let's say, some university in Albania, and compare it to MIT.
> >No offense meant to Albanians, just a suggestion for you, Mr. Kiefer.
>
> You have not moral right to make such statements.
> Neither you have any fact to validate them.
Someone else has already approprietely replied to this, see my previous
posting.
[...]
> > I confess I do not know anything about structural materials. I hope it
> >will help you sleep better. :-)
>
> But I do know *a lot* about Ohms Law and General Theory of Relativity.
> Got it?
Yes, "I'm so smart, smart, whereas he ... oh, no, doctor, not a
straitjacket, nooo!"
Line saying "> >Importance if any field is relative." deleted by accident.
> >Ohm's law are equally important for a composer using counterpoint.
> >This may be different for a power plant technician or a physicist
> >studying something not related to material science.
>
> By not related to material science you probably mean social sciences:-)
You are playing with words here. Particle physics does not study any
materials, does it?
> > Relativity is central here, as you can see. So do not compare its
> >importance with "structural materials." :-)
>
> Material science is as much important as The General Theory
> Relativity. What do you mean by "relativity"?
> Truly ignorant statement of yours.
Gosh, I put a smiley there; yet you didn't get it was a joke...
[...]
> Since material science is the basis of engineering, and above you
> disclosed its full ignorance, I might conclude that your
> "indirect contribution" to engineering is/will be zero.
^^^^^^^
I humbly thank you for your evaluation. You are right about "is."
Does engineering including foretelling future? Impressive indeed.
"What's the benefit of a newborn?" Does it ring a bell?
> >> >Physicists KNOW they are right. :-)
> >>
> >> Maybe they just never saw anything else:-)
> >
> > They know they don't have to. :-)
>
> I am sure you do!
You don't know anything substantial about me, yet you are "sure." Your
other conclusions are just like this. Did anybody teach you it was not a
spectacular idea to build buildings on sand? Try to apply that central
field called engineering to the debates you are involved in.
[...]
> > Yes. Do you think that employees who studied business administration
> >design their offices, buildings, and plug in their computers?
>
> Rhetoric question, if they dont plug their computers in, what will
> happen?
Technique #2 how to handle a question you can't answer. #1 was to
ignore it, #2 is calling the question "rhetoric."
> Do you think that society couldnt exist without MDs?
Today you say we don't need MD's and computers, and tomorrow you will
advocate for returning to the caves. Sorry, I don't buy that.
> And, an average engineer has pretty good knowledge in management.
> (Some in medical science, e.g. myself, too)
Calm down. Everybody on s.c.c-s has noticed you are a Renaissance man.
> >> And we all are an auxiliary field for our Governments!
> >
> > Everybody serves everybody, and so does (should) the government. It's
> >called division of labor.
>
> You got something principally wrong. Not that evreryone serves
> someone. In the case of government it is:
>
> THE GOVERNMENT WHO SERVES THE PEOPLE
>
> AND NEVER OPPOSITE.
>
> I suggest you talk to other students who spent more that 1yr in
> States and discuss with them the essential principles of democracy.
> Your thinking "Eastern-Trickster" reflects some distortions
> imprinted onto you in the early age.
Some people work for the government, so that the government can serve
the people as a whole. Do you think governments are run by robots? Your
perspective is rather limited.
[...]
> >> Not at all. There are numerous way how to get rid of undesirable
> >> competition!
> >
> > Yes, "Auslaender raus!" is one of them. :-(
>
> Hmm, how do the Ausslander fare in Slovakia?
> Did you hear the Slovak Government shouting "Ausslander in!"
> I see no coflict when people without legal status are being
> deported from any concerned country. Point!
> If you understant it as "Ausslander raus!", so be it.
No, it applies to any "foreigners" including legally residing aliens and
naturalized citizens.
> Dont tell me again that I have "no experience".
I said that your experience was different from mine, and that you made
inappropriate generalizations. Be sure I don't want to tell that again.
> >> >capitalism from?
> >>
> >> Ask in India, Arab countries, Russia , Iran, Brasil, Mexico ...
> >> You know, we care about Mexico:-)
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > When did Canada become the 51st state? :-)
>
> We are not the 51st state. We are the 1st state. State of Canada.
> Ever heard about NAFTA? (clue, it is not Diesel fuel :-) )
Clue not necessary, thanks. It was not the free trade agreement I had
in mind, it was the US emergency loan for Mexico. If there was this kind
of help from Canada, how did compare to the US?
> > Besides that, thanks for "advice."
>
> Hope it was the final one.
So do I, especially if all your future advice would be of the same value.
> Alexander
Mr. Kiefer, I'm skeptical about the purpose of continuing our
discussion. Readers of s.c.c-s already made their judgements about our
opinions. The debate has turned to an exchange of personal insults. I
tend to adopt the style of my party in the discussion, and, frankly, it
is no fun for me to be arrogant. It is against my nature. I have other, more
important things to do than to exchange flames with you; for instance, to
learn something about structural materials whose importance was irrefutably
proven here by you. I'm really anxious to make some direct contributions
to engineering and thus indirect contributions to GNP. :-)
Peter Hakel
J. Hajek
>>Fortunatelly, Mr. Kiefer has a right to speak.
>>Fortunatelly, he doesn't have a right (power)
>>to censor other contributions, as it seems,
>>he would like to. :-(
>
>Moral right implying *censorship*?
>If not guilty, why would the original poster in one
>sentence propose something and in the following appologize
>for it? Hardly a consistent attitude!
>Like saying, someone is a moron, but no offence meant to him.
>
>Let *him* explain why he did it.
>
>Alexander
>
Sombody smarter than he and me has said that
The censorship is the mother of a metaphore. J.
Boris Rajek
[deleted]
: >: You have not moral right to make such statements.
: >It seems, somebody (in this case Mr. Kiefer),
: >is deciding, what moral rights (to make statements),
: >other participants have.
: Moral right implying *censorship*?
[deleted]
No! Denying anyone moral right to make (any) statements,
implies *censorship*.
Boris
ra...@netcom.com
Jan Ilavsky
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.95081...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu> Peter Hakel <ha...@scs.unr.edu> writes:
>>On 12 Aug 1995, Alexander Kiefer wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
Mujtytondokolenaty,
pokud jsem tomu pokusu o argumentaci rozumel, tak, ze zaklad diskuze je porovnani Americkych a Ceskych a
Slovenskych vysokych skol.
Rad bych p. Kieferovi pridal do seznamu VS, ktere jsou horsi v kurikulu nez Universita Karlova take Statni
Universitu Statu New York. Mel jsem tu cest ji osobne poznat, a presto, ze to ma byt jedna z prednich
ne-soukromych vysokych skol v USA (oni se vytahuji, ze byli (nevim kdy) v prvni desitce universit v nejakem
podivnem hodnoceni, Americani si na ruzna hodnoceni nesmirne potrpi). Takze pridejte k Reno Universite take Statni
Universitu Statu New Yourk, prosim. A jen pro zajimavost, uroven znalosti, pokud mohu posoudit, byla za mych casu
na Karlove universite vyssi...
A pokud to panu Kieferovi a jinym zde (soc.cul....c-z) uniklo, tak prosim si vsimete, ze jiz vyrostla prvni
generace studentu VS, kteri v zivote na VS nepotkali Marxismus Leninismus a jine zabavne pa-vedy. Mozna sve
automaticke a prezirave "ocervenovani" studentu, prichazejicich na Zapad budete muset trochu upravit.
If someone need Anglish version, please quote me the document in e-mail, I'll be glad to translate it...
Jan
Alexander Kiefer
>On 14 Aug 1995, Alexander Kiefer wrote:
>
>> In article <rajekDD...@netcom.com> ra...@netcom.com (Boris Rajek) writes:
>> >
>> >: >you took some other Eastern country. I made one comparison, you may try
>> >: >to check, let's say, some university in Albania, and compare it to MIT.
>> >: >No offense meant to Albanians, just a suggestion for you, Mr. Kiefer.
>> >
>> >: You have not moral right to make such statements.
>> >
>> >
>> >is deciding, what moral rights (to make statements),
>> >other participants have.
>> >
>> >Fortunatelly, he doesn't have a right (power)
>> >to censor other contributions, as it seems,
>> >he would like to. :-(
>>
>> Moral right implying *censorship*?
>> If not guilty, why would the original poster in one
>> sentence propose something and in the following appologize
>> for it? Hardly a consistent attitude!
>> Like saying, someone is a moron, but no offence meant to him.
>>
>> Let *him* explain why he did it.
>>
>> Alexander
>
>to be perfectly consistent in being rude like you.
>
> I supported my statements with one example, you provided none.
Wrong. You examples were only declarations without proofs. I might
make simillar declarations too, I did study on two Universities in
Slovakia two in Canada and worked as visiting scholar at one
University in US. If this will satisfy you, so be it. Again, these
are no "proofs" of mine, same as you provided no proofs.
>Sometimes what happens is that people misunderstand each other because
>they are talking about different things ("ja o voze, ty o koze"). We both
>may be right, and I proposed you a way to prove your assertions. The
>Albanians entered our discussion through no fault of their own, so I
>"apologized" to them.
There is no need for a benchmarking like that. Not only that they are
of "no fault", but they have *absolutely* nothing to do with this.
BTW, they trace their origins to Illirians, even Caesar was not
able to conquer them. What did the Slovaks do at that time.
> I wanted to ease the tone of our discussion and what I get in return
>from you is this... :-(
In US there are good Universities, and other Universities. Dont get
misguided, for every american student the best University seems to
be his own. Maybe you too think that Reno is one of the best.
Might be not so.
Alexander
P.S. Dont get frustrated. I wasted one year serving in Czechoslovak
army in dirt and shit. Thats how "they" treated me. I am
positively sure that "they" treat you much better. They send
you to study in the place where I escaped from them and where
I pay my taxes.
Not your fault. Neither mine. "They" should be punished!
Stinking putrefied communists with their purulent SZM
avantgarde!
Kevin Krause
Bratislava, or are the lines (on average) too noisy for practical use at
that speed?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
. Kevin Krause
/<------ Krau...@nd.edu
Ivan Sever
Probably the easiest is to ask the Internet providers in those countries at
in...@EUnet.cz
and
S...@Slovakia.EU.net
Ivan
Kevin Krause (kkr...@weber.helios.nd.edu) wrote:
: Simple question: Is it worth buying a 14.4 modem for use in Prague and
: Bratislava, or are the lines (on average) too noisy for practical use at
: that speed?
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Kevin Krause
: /<------ -p
Alexander Kiefer
>Alexander Kiefer (KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca) wrote:
>
>[deleted]
>
>
>: >It seems, somebody (in this case Mr. Kiefer),
>: >is deciding, what moral rights (to make statements),
>: >other participants have.
>
>
>[deleted]
>
>No! Denying anyone moral right to make (any) statements,
>implies *censorship*.
Apparently you meant *moral censorship*.
When someone is "denied" a *moral right* to make certain
statements, doesnt necessarily mean that he is denied
*the right* or *the liberty* to make them.
Moral right is related to shame or guilt, not liberty.
In my opinion, censorship is not a tool for enforcement of
*moral rules*.
Some thought/think that it is. I find it hypocritic.
Alexander
Jenny Finkel
WITRHOUT responsibility. Some interpret "freedom of speach" the
same way. I ask, does one have the right to shout, "Fire!" in a
crowded theatre? Does one have the right to encourage others,
children for example, to commit crimes? Does one have the right to
slander another?
Clare
Boris Rajek
: Some interpret "freedom" to mean the right to do anything desored,
: Clare
Hi Clare (or is it Jenny?) :-)
Good questions! :-)
The subject of rights, especially "moral rights"
(like "freedom of speach") is full of difficulties.
Mainly, because no comprehensive definition
of "moral rights" exist.
And, can not exist, since it just a matter of opinion.
Some societies (States) do include some "moral rights"
into their "positive rihgts" system, thus guaranteeing
that the people can exercise them. (Constitution, laws, etc).
However: Even then, none of those "positive rights"
is without some limitations.
For instance, "freedom of speach":
Your examples clearly show that this freedom (of speach)
is not unlimited.
Many societies (States) impose "censorship" on some
forms of speach. (slander, incitement to crime,
military secrets, etc).
I think that in some instances this "censorship"
is very appropriate.
The life, however, is such that
there always was, is, and will be, the difference
of opinions where those limits
ought to be drawn.
Boris
ra...@netcom.com
Boris Rajek
: In article ra...@netcom.com (Boris Rajek) writes:
[deleted]
: >No! Denying anyone moral right to make (any) statements,
: >implies *censorship*.
: Apparently you meant *moral censorship*.
No. I don't know what *moral censorship* means, anyway. :-)
: When someone is "denied" a *moral right* to make certain
: statements, doesnt necessarily mean that he is denied
: *the right* or *the liberty* to make them.
When someone is "denied" anything, that necessarily
means that he can not enjoy it.
When "the attempt to deny" is made, that attempt
may, or may not be succesful.
In the case of "moral right" the attempt to deny it
indicates that that particular rigt ought not to be
exercised.
: Moral right is related to shame or guilt, not liberty.
Moral right is related only to the opinion
of the beholder.
: In my opinion, censorship is not a tool for enforcement of
: *moral rules*.
: Some thought/think that it is. I find it hypocritic.
Regardless, it is! (a tool....).
Apparently you meant *ought not to be*. :-)
Boris
ra...@netcom.com
Jan Hrdonka
: .8773K-...@weber.helios.nd.edu>
: Kevin Krause (kkr...@weber.helios.nd.edu) wrote:
: : Simple question: Is it worth buying a 14.4 modem for use in Prague and
: : Bratislava, or are the lines (on average) too noisy for practical use at
: : that speed?
It depends of a locality. The speed can be about 9.600 and also 28.800.
Mostly speeds 14.400 or up to 19.200 are without problems in Prague.
I recommend never to buy a modem slower than 14.400.
Jan Hrdonka
Jenny Finkel
Boris,
What you say impresses me. Will you continue?
It seems there are a lot of things like this; ie, things
that rely on opinion; such as moral rights, human rights, personal
rights, RIGHTS.. It seems to me that many of these things contradict
themselves right out of existence or into unbreachable paradox and/or
dilemna.
(This is not a change in subject.) Someone else in the
group seems impressed by the English language. He said it's great
because anything can mean almost anything you want. I don't think
the English would agree with him, but I do; however, I think it's
a problem. (It's part of the reason I am studying Czech. I'm hoping
the languag is closer to precise.)
Precisely put: I think we (mankind) need some kind of
comprehensive definition of things that we presently base on opinion;
otherwise, we (mankind) are doomed to fighting.
Forgive my poor poetry, and ignorance, but it is th closest
way to precise that I can express what I am thinking:
Communism expects man to be good.
Capatalism expects him to be bad.
Dictators act like they know.
Democracies... don't care.
Clare
Alexander Kiefer
>
>: In article ra...@netcom.com (Boris Rajek) writes:
>
>[deleted]
>
>: >No! Denying anyone moral right to make (any) statements,
>: >implies *censorship*.
>
>: Apparently you meant *moral censorship*.
>
>No. I don't know what *moral censorship* means, anyway. :-)
I just tried to indicate how ellusive my denial was.
I suppose, it might be as nebulous as the term I used
to describe it:-)
>: When someone is "denied" a *moral right* to make certain
>: statements, doesnt necessarily mean that he is denied
>: *the right* or *the liberty* to make them.
>
>When someone is "denied" anything, that necessarily
>means that he can not enjoy it.
Imagine me fleeing from communists.
Bet it was forbidden!
Bet I enjoyed it!
The forbidden fruits taste the best:-)
>When "the attempt to deny" is made, that attempt
>may, or may not be succesful.
I would agree, but distinction has to be made between
moral and legal enforcement.
Moral rules have an internal nature, they are based on
a belief, whereas legal are external, punitive.
As such, breach of moral rule constitutes per se a
different entity than a breach of a legal rule
(not necessarily implying no interference or convergence).
>In the case of "moral right" the attempt to deny it
>indicates that that particular rigt ought not to be
>exercised.
Indeed, *ought not*.
>: Moral right is related to shame or guilt, not liberty.
>
>Moral right is related only to the opinion
>of the beholder.
Now you scolded:-) me for something and now you tell me that
it is just an expression of my own opinion:-)
Did you mean that moral right is just a matter of opinion
of an individual?
What about me stating "There are no black holes in the
universe". Moral or immoral? (Depends to which camp one
belongs:-))
>: In my opinion, censorship is not a tool for enforcement of
>: *moral rules*.
>: Some thought/think that it is. I find it hypocritic.
>
>Regardless, it is! (a tool....).
>Apparently you meant *ought not to be*. :-)
Yes, thats what I try to imply.
But I would be bit philosophical, and I would tell, that
it is used "as a tool" for certain purpose. What I doubt
is the appropriatness of the object used "as the tool".
One example might be "shariah". Other "inquisition".
Alexander
Alexander Kiefer
>Alexander Kiefer (KA...@music.mus.polymtl.ca) wrote:
>
>
>[deleted]
>
>: >Moral right is related only to the opinion
>: >of the beholder.
>
>: Did you mean that moral right is just a matter of opinion
>: of an individual?
>
>Yes.
>
>: What about me stating "There are no black holes in the
>: universe". Moral or immoral? (Depends to which camp one
>: belongs:-))
>
Love can justify everything.
Alexander