Un grupo de noticias de Colombia

3 views
Skip to first unread message

Carlos Th

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 12:53:58 PM2/9/03
to
El pasado viernes se presentaron cuatro noticias de alto impacto en
Colombia. No propiamente "importantes" como lo mensionaba un medio de
comunicación, sino más bien trágicas.

Entre esos cuatro ítemes noticiosos sin duda se generaron más hechos, entre
ese montón de hechos trágicos que suceden pero no registra el país, hechos
positivos y hechos más o menos importantes en los mundos deportivos, de
farándula o de carnaval en el que vivimos.

Mientras tanto veo que en un sitio destinado para que los colombianos
hablemos de lo que nos pasa y nos interesa, es muy poco lo que se habla de
Colombia. No digo que tangamos que dedicar el 90% del tiempo a la explosión
en el Club El Nogal de Bogotá con sus treintaypucho de muertos y cientos de
heridos, tal como han hecho los noticieros aquí. Ni digo que tengamos que
dedicar el 80% de los mensajes a hablar del incendio de decenas de casas de
invasión construídas sobre el antiguo basurero de Medellín, tal y como no
han hecho los noticieros aquí.

El punto es que salvo algunos mensajes de Vladimir, que son básicamente
copia de las denuncias de organismos de derechos humanos en Colombia, entre
bananas alcohólicas y coca cola, Iraq y Venezuela, casi todas por mensajes
crosposteados por todos los grupos soc.culture latinoamericanos, es muy poco
lo que vemos aquí del país.

¿Tanto nos hastía ver lo bueno o malo que tenemos?

-- Carlos Th


T.Schmidt

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 2:18:59 PM2/9/03
to
Carlos

Como decimos por aquí, *welcome back.!*

Estoy 100% de acuerdo, los colombianos parece que no estuviéramos. Yo me la
paso peleando con venezolanos a falta de intercambio con colombianos.
En todo caso, ahora me interesa saber si hay un componente internacional en
el acto terrorista de El Nogal.

T.Schmidt
======================
"Carlos Th" <chl...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:b264c3$18tcii$1...@ID-83976.news.dfncis.de...


> El pasado viernes se presentaron cuatro noticias de alto impacto en
> Colombia. No propiamente "importantes" como lo mensionaba un medio de
> comunicación, sino más bien trágicas.

< S N I P >


Carlos Th

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 1:45:43 PM2/9/03
to
T.Schmidt escribió:

> Carlos
>
> Como decimos por aquí, *welcome back.!*
>
> Estoy 100% de acuerdo, los colombianos parece que no estuviéramos.
> Yo me la paso peleando con venezolanos a falta de intercambio con
> colombianos. En todo caso, ahora me interesa saber si hay un
> componente internacional en el acto terrorista de El Nogal.

Se ha especulado sobre relaciones entre los terroristas de El Nogal,
presumiblemente las FARC, con grupos terroristas internacionales como el ETA
o el IRA. Hablando del IRA, el viernes mismo se cumplió una jornada de las
declaraciones públicas contra los ciudadanos irlandeses acusados de entrenar
a las FARC en el uso de explosivos. Un testigo quien supuestamente fuese
chofer de Jorge Briceño (el Mono Jojoy), rindió su declaración indicando el
tipo de bombas que los irlandeses enseñaron a fabricar en el Caguán.

Según los expertos, la bomba estaba diseñada para destruír la estructura de
soporte del edificio, lo que afortunadamente no logró. Esto parece ser muy
sofisticado para una guerrilla rural como son las FARC, o para
narcotraficantes terroristas estilo Pablo Escobar, o de bandas de criminales
como La Terraza (sindicados del bombazo de El Tesoro, hace un par de años en
Medellín). Esto refuerza las sospechas de que haya habido un componente
internacional.

Algo me hace pensar, sin embargo, que más que el IRA o la ETA (o Chavez como
lo sugiere Auguso's World), esta bomba guarda más semejanza con la que Al
Qaeda colocó en el WTC en 1993.

-- Carlos Th


c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 1:57:18 PM2/9/03
to

"T.Schmidt" wrote:
>
> Carlos
>
> Como decimos por aquí, *welcome back.!*
>
> Estoy 100% de acuerdo, los colombianos parece que no estuviéramos. Yo me la
> paso peleando con venezolanos a falta de intercambio con colombianos.
> En todo caso, ahora me interesa saber si hay un componente internacional en
> el acto terrorista de El Nogal.
>
> T.Schmidt

De pronto el componente internacional es la CIA, especializada en bombas
en discotecas y lugares públicos.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22disco+bombing%22+CIA

Pero pura especulación. Lo sorprendente es que minutos después del bombazo y
ya el presidente dice que fueron las FARC sin ni siquiera haber iniciado una
investigación ni las FARC haberse adjudicado la masacre.

c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 2:08:15 PM2/9/03
to

Quieres decir la bomba que el FBI ayudó a poner en el WTC?

T.Schmidt

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 3:48:49 PM2/9/03
to
Coreya

¿Y no hubo ni un gringo con un razguño? tsk, tsk, tsk.¿Israelitas? tsk, tsk,
tsk.

T.Schmidt
P.S. Me recuerda a los documentos del asesinato de Gaitán, en Colombia
todavía no sabían mucho de Raul Roa Sierra y el CIA ya estaba infromando
todo acerca de él, incluso las razones para asesinar a Gaitán. A veces
pasarse de listo es sospechoso.
=========================
<c...@exchangenet.net> wrote in message
news:3E46A48E...@exchangenet.net...

jeanpaul

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 6:13:01 PM2/9/03
to
Eso no lo sabia,por favor explicame que relacion tuvo el FBI con los
terroristas?
<c...@exchangenet.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:3E46A71F...@exchangenet.net...

Carlos Th

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 7:17:21 PM2/9/03
to
Coreya escribió:

> > Algo me hace pensar, sin embargo, que más que el IRA o la ETA (o Chavez
como
> > lo sugiere Auguso's World), esta bomba guarda más semejanza con la que
Al
> > Qaeda colocó en el WTC en 1993.
> >
> > -- Carlos Th
>
> Quieres decir la bomba que el FBI ayudó a poner en el WTC?

Quien quiera que la haya puesto. La verdad no tengo los detalles pero creo
que el grado de destrucción proyectado y conseguido es similar entre el WTC
en el 93 y El Nogal.

Algo han sugerido de una similitud con Oklahoma City, también. Aunque Okla
Ct fue una carga externa, como la del DAS, y no interna dentro del
parqueadero del edificio.

De todas formas, no estoy tan contundentemente convencido de que hayan sido
las FARC en este caso. Puede que sí, pero no al grado de avisar al par de
horas, como lo hizo el vicepresidente, que ellos son los autores.

-- Carlos Th


c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 8:57:21 PM2/9/03
to

jeanpaul wrote:
>
> Eso no lo sabia,por favor explicame que relacion tuvo el FBI con los
> terroristas?

Ya nadie se acuerda del primer bombazo al WTC?

c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 9:05:14 PM2/9/03
to

Carlos Th wrote:
>
> Coreya escribió:
>
> > > Algo me hace pensar, sin embargo, que más que el IRA o la ETA (o Chavez
> > > como lo sugiere Auguso's World), esta bomba guarda más semejanza con la
> > > que Al Qaeda colocó en el WTC en 1993

> > > -- Carlos Th
> >
> > Quieres decir la bomba que el FBI ayudó a poner en el WTC?
>
> Quien quiera que la haya puesto. La verdad no tengo los detalles pero creo
> que el grado de destrucción proyectado y conseguido es similar entre el WTC
> en el 93 y El Nogal.
>
> Algo han sugerido de una similitud con Oklahoma City, también. Aunque Okla
> Ct fue una carga externa, como la del DAS, y no interna dentro del
> parqueadero del edificio.
>
> De todas formas, no estoy tan contundentemente convencido de que hayan sido
> las FARC en este caso. Puede que sí, pero no al grado de avisar al par de
> horas, como lo hizo el vicepresidente, que ellos son los autores.
>
> -- Carlos Th

El parecido puede deberse a que la publicidad del bombazo y posterior
avionazo al WTC y el bombazo en Oklahoma le enseñaron a todo el mundo
dónde se ponen los explosivos y que un fertilizante en particular
es explosivo.

T.Schmidt

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 10:12:41 PM2/9/03
to

<c...@exchangenet.net> wrote in message
news:3E470701...@exchangenet.net...
==============================
Lean sobre el FBI y WTC 1993 en este url

http://www.citizentimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47

T.Schmidt


c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 9:44:08 PM2/9/03
to

jeanpaul wrote:
>
> Eso no lo sabia,por favor explicame que relacion tuvo el FBI con los
> terroristas?

sobre el 9-11 publiqué esto:

Rezaban juntos y les ayudó a abrir las cuentas bancarias!!! (literalmente!!!)
Sí, los terrorsitas rezaban juntos con el agente del FBI!!! jajaja
Gringolandia está como macondo!
Y mientras tanto el presi Bush continua entorpeciendo las investigaciones
mientras ruega que su nueva guerra genere el suficiente humo como para
despistar a los investigadores.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/09.13A.newk.infrmt.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/09.22A.evidence.911.htm
__________
The Informant Who Lived With the Hijackers
By Michael Isikoff
NEWSWEEK

Week of September 16th. Issue
NEWSWEEK has learned that one of the bureau's informants had a close relationship
with two of the hijackers.

At first, FBI director Bob Mueller insisted there was nothing the bureau
could have done to penetrate the 9-11 plot. That account has been modified
over time--and now may change again. NEWSWEEK has learned that one of the
bureau's informants had a close relationship with two of the hijackers: he
was their roommate.

The connection, just discovered by congressional investigators, has stunned
some top counterterrorism officials and raised new concerns about the
information-sharing among U.S. law-enforcement and intelligence agencies.
The two hijackers, Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, were hardly unknown
to the intelligence community. The CIA was first alerted to them in January
2000, when the two Saudi nationals showed up at a Qaeda "summit" in Kuala
Lumpur, Malaysia. FBI officials have argued internally for months that if
the CIA had more quickly passed along everything it knew about the two men,
the bureau could have hunted them down more aggressively.

But both agencies can share in the blame. Upon leaving Malaysia, Almihdhar
and Alhazmi went to San Diego, where they took flight-school lessons. In
September 2000, the two moved into the home of a Muslim man who had
befriended them at the local Islamic Center. The landlord regularly prayed
with them and even helped one open a bank account. He was also, sources tell
NEWSWEEK, a "tested" undercover "asset" who had been working closely with
the FBI office in San Diego on terrorism cases related to Hamas. A senior
law-enforcement official told NEWSWEEK the informant never provided the
bureau with the names of his two houseguests from Saudi Arabia. Nor does
the FBI have any reason to believe the informant was concealing their
identities. (He could not be reached for comment.) But the FBI concedes
that a San Diego case agent appears to have been at least aware that Saudi
visitors were renting rooms in the informant's house. (On one occasion, a
source says, the case agent called up the informant and was told he couldn't
talk because "Khalid"--a reference to Almihdhar--was in the room.) I. C. Smith,
a former top FBI counterintelligence official, says the case agent should
have been keeping closer tabs on who his informant was fraternizing with--
if only to seek out the houseguests as possible informants. "They should
have been asking, 'Who are these guys? What are they doing here?' This
strikes me as a lack of investigative curiosity." About six weeks after
moving into the house, Almihdhar left town, explaining to the landlord he
was heading back to Saudi Arabia to see his daughter. Alhazmi moved out
at the end of 2000.

In the meantime, the CIA was gathering more information about just how
potentially dangerous both men were. A few months after the October 2000
bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen, CIA analysts discovered --in their
Malaysia file that one of the chief suspects in the Cole attack--
Tawfiq bin Attash--was present at the "summit" and had been photographed
with Almihdhar and Alhazmi. But it wasn't until Aug. 23, 2001, that the
CIA sent out an urgent cable to U.S. border and law-enforcement agencies
identifying the two men as "possible" terrorists. By then it was too late.
The bureau did not realize the San Diego connection until a few days after
9-11, when the informant heard the names of the Pentagon hijackers and
called his case agent. "I know those guys," the informant purportedly
said, referring to Almihdhar and Alhazmi. "They were my roommates."

But the belated discovery has unsettled some members of the joint House
and Senate intelligence committees investigating the 9-11 attacks. The
panel is tentatively due to begin public hearings as early as Sept. 18,
racing to its end-of-the-year deadline. But some members are now worried
that they won't get to the bottom of what really happened by then. Support
for legislation creating a special blue-ribbon investigative panel,
similar to probes conducted after Pearl Harbor and the Kennedy assassination,
is increasing. Only then, some members say, will the public learn whether
more 9-11 secrets are buried in the government's files.

--with Jamie Reno

c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 9:52:14 PM2/9/03
to

> > Quieres decir la bomba que el FBI ayudó a poner en el WTC?
jeanpaul wrote:
>
> Eso no lo sabia,por favor explicame que relacion tuvo el FBI con los
> terroristas?
...

lo que republiqué otra vez en enero de este año:
__________
http://www.rense.com/general30/cart.htm
The Bush-Bin Laden Cartel & The NWO Chronology Of The Seduction Of America
...
Feb 26, 1993, The basement of the World Trade Center is bombed, leaving
a 200 x 100 ft crater, and 7 stories deep. Causing $300 million in damage,
6 people were killed and 1042 wounded. Osama Bin Laden was accused, Bill
Clinton declares he will be brought to justice, but it is apparent that
even then there was massive government cover up, and Bin Laden, despite
all our resources still remains at large.

It was reported both by CNN and the New York Times that the FBI, to
infiltrate a group of Muslims and convince them to bomb the basement
of the WTC, used a Mr. Salem. They first led him to believe that fake
explosive ordnance would be used and they would be arrested on conspiracy
charges, but as time drew close they changed the orders to use real
explosives. Salem had secretly though recorded his telephone with FBI
agents. Some of these were played in part on CNN, and they were played
at preliminary hearings, but were not allowed to be presented in actual
trial. The reason given was not to promote truth and justice, but because
the FBI was not aware of the recordings and had not given permission to
Salem to tape their conspiracy. The tapes still exist and prove the
FBI's planning and funding of the blowing up of the WTC's basement.
Popular media does not present this info though, and Osama began to be
drawn as our enemy, though in reality he has been a CIA operative since
at least the early 1980s.
...
Quote from 1994 "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we
need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller, speaking at the Business Council for the UN, Sept. 14, 1994

c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 9:55:37 PM2/9/03
to

jeanpaul wrote:
>
> Eso no lo sabia,por favor explicame que relacion tuvo el FBI con los
> terroristas?

Y otras noticias viejas para ver si contrarestamos el Alzheimers:

Advanced warning
again and again and again and again.
_____________________
http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/aug1998/bomb-a13.shtml
Questions mount in Kenya, Tanzania
bombings

US government, Israeli intelligence had advance warning

By Martin McLaughlin
13 August 1998

The search for survivors of the bombing of the US embassy in Nairobi,
Kenya ended officially at 10 a.m. local time Wednesday, with the death
toll set at 247, and 5,436 injured. Another 10 people died and 70 were
injured in the simultaneous bombing of the US embassy in Dar
es-Salaam, in neighboring Tanzania, bringing the combined death toll to
257.

The gruesome task of fully excavating the blast site and recovering the
remaining bodies continues. At least three Kenyan employees of the
embassy are still missing, along with an unknown but likely much larger
number of victims in the rubble of the Ufundi House, next door to the
embassy.

Several hundred FBI and American police bomb site investigators have
flooded Nairobi, cordoning off the area around the embassy and
beginning efforts to determine the type of explosive used in the huge
blast, as well as identifying the vehicle, believed to be a pickup truck,
which delivered it. An official report on the techniques used in the
explosion is not expected for many months.

What information has been made public in the international press,
however, raises disturbing questions about the circumstances leading up
to the bombing and the role of US and Israeli intelligence agencies.

Several US and Israeli sources, including ABC News and the Tel Aviv
newspaper Ha'aretz, reported Wednesday that a US informant in Kenya
had warned the American government two weeks before the blast that
the Nairobi embassy had been targeted for a bomb attack.

The informant was a contact of Israel's Mossad intelligence service, but
when American officials checked with Mossad about the reliability of the
source, they were advised to treat the report with skepticism. No special
security measures were taken at the embassy.

The office of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu refused to
comment on the Ha'aretz article. But the Israeli government's dismissal
of this advance warning may account for its extraordinary effort to supply
bomb experts and rescue teams in the wake of the bombing, for reasons
which have not otherwise been explained.

A second warning was provided four days before the explosion,
according the Nation, the English-language daily newspaper published in
Nairobi. A security guard working near the Nairobi embassy saw a man
videotaping the building, protected by two bodyguards. When the
cameraman saw he had been observed, he and his escorts jumped into a
car and sped away. The security guard reported the incident to guards at
the embassy, who seemed uninterested. Even though, according to ABC
News, all American facilities in the Middle East and South Asia had been
put on security alert against a threatened terrorist attack, no special
security measures were ordered in East Africa even after the second
report.

Most accounts of the bombing in the American press have named a
Saudi exile, Osama bin Laden, as the most likely suspect. Bin Laden, a
construction multi-millionaire, is an Islamic fundamentalist opposed to the
US military presence in Saudi Arabia during and since the 1991 Persian
Gulf war. He fled Saudi Arabia in 1994 and reportedly now lives in
Afghanistan.

But according to several of the reports, bin Laden was associated with
the CIA-backed mujahedin guerrillas during their war against the Soviet
military occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s. Among these were the
CIA-trained terrorists who later were convicted in the bombing of the
World Trade Center in New York City.

The attitude of American officials to the investigations by Kenyan and
Tanzanian police is also curious. After Tanzanian officials arrested several
dozen people in Dar es-Salaam, the State Department belittled the action
as little more than a roundup of "the usual suspects." The announcement
by Kenyan President Daniel arap Moi that an unspecified number of
suspects had been arrested in Nairobi was also dismissed as unlikely to
represent an advance in the investigation.

The New York Times reported claims of some eyewitnesses in Nairobi
that the truck used in the embassy bombing had American diplomatic
license plates. Another eyewitness claimed that the man who leaped from
the truck and threw a hand grenade just before the bomb blast was
wearing a blue uniform identical to that worn by embassy guards.

Even more striking is a report carried in the Washington Post
Wednesday, based on a leak from the CIA in which the agency claimed
to have foiled two recent attempts to bomb American embassies in the
Middle East. The Post article quotes Robert Oakley, the former State
Department coordinator for counterterrorism, on the US efforts to
infiltrate terrorist groups targeting American facilities.

According to the Post: "He recalled an episode in the mid-1980s when
U.S. intelligence recruited a terrorist who had been assigned to bomb an
American embassy in Europe. The putative bomber, Oakley said, was
allowed to detonate a bomb inside the embassy compound in such a way
that little damage was done, far removed from US personnel, so that his
relationship with US intelligence was not exposed."

Taken together, these reports raise the possibility that the horrific loss of
life in Nairobi and Dar es-Salaam may be linked, directly or indirectly, to
covert operations by US intelligence agencies, in which individuals with
past CIA connections but present grievances against the US government,
such as the former Afghan mujahedin, were involved.

Such questions are not even considered in the American media
discussion of the East African bombings, in which major newspapers and
television networks are vying to supply one or another Middle East
nation as a potential target for US military retaliation.

The New York Times suggested Libya as a target in its Wednesday
news pages, while an editorial vilified Iraq. The Washington Post added
Syria and Islamic fundamentalist groups based in Yemen and Egypt to
the list.

The Wall Street Journal published a column the same day denouncing
the Clinton administration for ignoring evidence that Iran was behind
blasts, and declaring the attack on the embassies "an act of war." The
Journal cited US bombing raids on Libya in 1986, ordered by Ronald
Reagan, as an example for Clinton.

Another column in the Journal, by its Washington correspondent,
revealed that the Pentagon changed the composition of US forces in the
Persian Gulf region after last February's confrontation with Saddam
Hussein, so that a protracted buildup would not be required before
launching air strikes against targets in Iraq. Such attacks could be
launched against Iraq--or any other target in region--literally overnight.

See Also:
International campaign demands release of Sri Lankan socialists
[13 August 1998]
As US media suggest targets for military attack
Death toll mounts in East African bombings
[11 August 1998]

c...@exchangenet.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2003, 10:08:40 PM2/9/03
to

o en este:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html
T H E N E W Y O R K T I M E S
* * * * *
Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1

"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"

By Ralph Blumenthal
Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building
a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center,
and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting
harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after
the blast.

The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb
and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by
an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer,
Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.

The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of
hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his
talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as
being in a far better position than previously known to foil
the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers.

The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people
injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars.
Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court
[on charges of involvement] in that attack.

Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used
by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle
of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases:
the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy
the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other
New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the
second bombing case, but his work for the Government was
erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast,
he was feuding with th F.B.I.

Supervisor `Messed It Up'

After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an
undated transcript of a conversation from that period,
Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent
about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said,

"came and messed it up."
"He requested to meet me in the hotel,"

Mr. Salem says of the supervisor.

"He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn't
push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with
a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was
involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that."

The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to
complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the
Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by
an agent identified as John Anticev.


Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,

"He said, I don't think that the New York people would
like the things out of the New York Office to go to
Washington, D.C."

Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute
Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it,
saying of the `New York people':

"Well, of course not, because they don't want to
get their butts chewed."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages