Re. Mainlanders' hostility twoard Taiwan...
ych...@phoenix.princeton.edu
(X Johnson) wrote:
>>
>>1. The so-called Guo2 Yu3 (national language) should be called Dao3 Yu3
>> (island language), for only an island speeks it.
>>
>>2. The so-called Guo2 Yu3 is the refugee version of PU3 tong1 hua4, for
>> it was exiled with Jiang3 Fei3 to Taiwan.
>>
>>3. The men in Taiwan are like women when they speak their so-called Guo2
>> Yu3, as if they were Lao3 niang2 men'er. Seems to me the Guo2 yu3 does
>> not have bones or proper hermone.
>>
>>4. Taiwan people have degenerated after speaking that slavish language.
>> The way to regain oral health is to speak Pu3 tong1 hua4 like Beijing
>> people speak it. Especially like peasants. Their language may be Tu3,
>> but is at least musculine.
>>
In article <1992Jan18.0...@Princeton.EDU>, I replies:
<
<Those of you who think Taiwan should be united with PRC now, please read this.
<Before the mainlanders' hostility toward Taiwan vanishes, which I don't quite
<see possible in the near future, I have only one sentence toward unification:
<" OVER MY DEAD BODY! "
In <1992Jan18.0...@cs.yale.edu> horne...@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
then writes:
>
>I'd rather not see it done that way, but it can certainly be arranged.
>
X Johnson and Scott Horne's postings should reach everyone in Taiwan!
After reading all this, pro-unification-ers, please say something about this.
While I oppose to the idea of de jure TI ( declaring TI openly), I urge you
all to realize that the arch-enemy of Taiwan/ROC is PRC and mainlanders.
Until the prevailing hostility of mainlanders toward Taiwanese is gone, we
should treat mainlanders just like foreigners. Believing that mainlanders regard
us as brothers/sisters is simply too nai've and dangerous!
Making money there; touring and having fun there; but remember:
most mainlanders are hostile toward us!
Wenjun Sun
You are either too sensitive, or too humorous. Which one is it ?
The authors of the two posting which arose your anger, X Johnson and
Scott Horne, are not even asians, not to mention chinese. How could you
extraplote it to your dear fellow mainland chinese ? Just calm down,
don't
let your furious anger blind your mind. You are a Princeton guy, so suppose
to be smarter than I am. If you really send those two stupid posts back to
Taiwan, you may have got kidded by fellow chinese people in Taiwan.
I also feel bad about X Johnson's irritating posting. It was like a piece of
mouse shit in a bowl of soup and made us uncomfortable. But it is not a
big deal. I am amazed that you derived many 'big' conclusions from it:
e.g. "--the arch-enemy of Taiwan/ROC is PRC and mainlanders."
"---the prevailing hostility of mainlanders toward Taiwanese --"
"---we should treat mainlanders just like foreigners."
"most mainlanders are hostile toward us!"
All these words make me, and other mainlanders, I believe, feel very
sad, too. I know those postings hurt the self-esteems of you and other
Taiwan
chinese, but they are not from your fellow chinese, so your extraordinarily
strong responses seem not necessary.
Actually, most of mainland chinese people love and respect taiwanese
people very much-----we have the same culture, language, tradition... ...
in one word, we belong to one nation--chinese. I give you some superfluous
examples: Many chinese girls love to read taiwanese novels and poems, and
see taiwanese movies, especially Qiong-Yao's romantic works, I believe
they share the same kind of dreams-----someday a white-horse prince
marries them; I and some other mainland boys like Taiwan's Kong-fu
movies very much; many stores in china's cities are proud of using
taiwanese chinese characters on their posting and ads., because that
represent prosperous and high-quality today... ... Can you sense any
kind
of hostilities here ?
Certainly, because of historical reason, we are separated and thus speak
slight different spoken languages today. But so what ? I have some
taiwanese friends here, occasionally when we come together, we talk
about some different pronunciations and vocabularies of us, sometimes
mainlanders laugh at taiwanese's funny parts, and vice versa. We are
very glad and feel we are the same things any way.
My final advice: take it easy, don't let some irrelevant non-chinese's
nonsense ruin your good feeling, and ---appetite.
Regards.
l...@bucrsb.bu.edu
My goddess, why are misunderstanding and bloody hate so easy to generate?
<ych...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> wrote:
>X Johnson and Scott Horne's postings should reach everyone in Taiwan!
>
>After reading all this, pro-unification-ers, please say something about this.
Wenjun Sun wrote:
>The authors of the two posting which arose your anger, X Johnson and
<Scott Horne, are not even asians, not to mention chinese.
I'm not sure about this, I believe X Johnson is a Chinese. Though I haven't
met him in person, but his poems ceratinly smell similar to traditional
Chinese poems, though in English. I was told he is frequently drunken (all
good poets are, aren't they?) when typing to SCC. Once, rumor says, he
poured his wine on keyboard in hope that it can pass through network to a
friend in New England. I am not sure whether that is true. But he once
invited me to Oregon, but two sentences later, he became nervous, fearing
that I would be a bald eagle, dangerous to his (her?) eggs -- his penname
is TuYa, bald crow. One needs to be very careful to judge what he is saying
on SCC. For example, after reading his posting on Taiwan GuoYu, my immediate
response is: "Ha, this Tu Ya is being nervous to soft tone of that girl from
TW! :-)
It is a pity if this famous drunken poet has to step over a dead body:-(
Nevertheless, let's enjoy my collection of poems from Tu Ya. After reading
these, you will believe what I just said.
My Incompleted Collection of Poems by Tu Ya
My Port
-- Tu Ya
I roam along the season, a bird
Like snow flakes I land
At night, I moor, by reed
Insects chirping the Milky Way, moonlight is my port
STONED
-- to a college student who uses drugs
Tu Ya
Beat, beat
Heavy Metal
with its full force
beats
heavily
smashing the only nerve that still senses
hammering the last breath
OUT OF ME OUT Of me out of me
Bruised
bleeding
with black eyes
sitting at the bottom of the night
I watch TV
A war is marching through the screen
A baby's diaper wraps up Sahdam Hussein
Have the Dow Jones Index driven a Ford lately?
Devastated forest is truth the first global is warming casualty
...
The world is busy squeezing through
channels
But I am an outsider
wearing a mocking smile
I watch TV
Oh, ya?
So starting from here
I am supposed to continue the journey
Yes Sir!
But could you give me a destination, and
perhaps
an identity?
My boat is sinking fast
Why is my desperation so heavy?
When the world is drugged out of sense
How decent do you want me to be?
If I could, I'd space out
If allowed, I'd stay dreamy
Groping through a doomsday
I stay dreamy
dreamy
dreamy
Only me
and
a green leaf
The world is now empty
PRAY FOR OUR LEADERS
O, Leaders, leaders. Deng Xiaoping, Chairman Mao, Bush,
Saddam, Nixon... I have always been impressed by leaders. What
kind of creatures are they? They come and go like guests in the
history. They shake hands, hug, and put on smiles like angles.
Then they become angry, wave fists, show teeth and growl at each
other like beasts. They never have friends or enemies. They
give their friends and enemies to their people. The people pay
to the friends chosen, and fight the enemies chosen. The leaders
don't even have to die. They live in books and portraits on the
walls. There are those who will willingly die for them so that
they can become living Gods.
Shouldn't we gratefully pray for our beloved leaders?
THE LIBRARY
--- To a scholar 3/6/91
Tu Ya
Together,
all thoughts
are buried here
all greatness and fallacy
Not everybody can choose
the form of death
Some are crushed
into the two-dimensional space
and forced to become portraits
and nailed onto walls
Some are decomposed into words
and printed on papers
Between page and page
year and year
there isn't much freedom
or enjoyment
The only meaningful thing to do
is to fade into yellow
Digging grave
could be a noble profession
Drowning in one's own eyes
is a legalized way of committing suicide
There is always an eloquent argument
to bound ourselves to chairs
and wait to become pupas
And we never worry
what will happen to the butterflies later
whether
to be displayed as specimens on the shelf
or
to be cremated as garbage
A TEAR WITHOUT A NAME
Tu Ya
The wind is always so vague
and pink
Quietly, it peels the Spring into petals
O, those small, tender, and light kites
roaming all over places
They parachute on grass
only to become dandelions
ready to take off again
The wind is always so vague
and pink
There is no reason these days
and oh, it's not a season for wanting to cry
like a turtle gazing into the ocean
or a mourning buffalo with its head lowered down
Maybe it's wise to become a clam then
swallowing the darkness underwater
and becomes pregnant with a nameless
tear
FORGETTING WHAT I WANT TO SAY
Tu Ya
A little car a little car little
A drifting cloud a drifting cloud a cloud
that one there is one
Such a blue sky, a jumping trout a jump
O, I hope really hope dearly dearly hope ...
And yet green green green green
Bright pink bright pink
Blinking white blinking blinking
The winding flow winding the flow flow flow flow
-- and all the setting sun
I want to sincerely want to very very sincerely want to ...
I sit in the moon in the moon sit
That moon rises rises
The round and round moon heavy heavy moon
hung by the fishing pole round and round heavy heavy ...
THE HOWL OF A WOLF
Tu Ya
That wolf
submits itself to the moonlight
It walks walks walks
just walks, just like that
Sometimes near, sometimes far, near and far
Above the mountain is the moon
Blinking and remote is a star
It sits down and howls
the kind of howl that echoes and is long long long
That kind of howl ...
It's only a howl a howl no one hears
Perhaps it doesn't say anything anything doesn't say anything
A SPRING NIGHT
by Tu Ya 3/25/91
Over there is a stretch of grass
passing which is another stretch of grass
The street light walks down the road
Such is tonight's state of mind
The rain incidentally records
the outline of a person's back
and it patters patters patters
trying but failing to describe
READING AN IMPRESSIONIST PAINTING
by Tu Ya
Face, face, and faces
Ellipse ellipse ellipse without facial features
Rotate, all these colorful umbrellas in water puddles
The bridge arches arches
Fully loaded with April's clouds of fragrance
The ancient corridor suspends columns
and columns of graceful beauty over people
Poetic rhythms
Piousness respectfully enters the art palace
which exhibits ingenious emptiness emptiness
EYES
by Tu Ya
The sky at night is an Ocean
Eyes are fish
That's why the color of tears is dark-blue
and the world in irises mysteriously deep
COMMITTING SUICIDE
There is a puddle of water beneath my feet
in which I find an unhappy face
I eliminate it with a kick
-- just to make sure
next time I won't see it
BIRTHDAY
What are you going to do
on your birthday?
-- Either jumping from a cliff into the Pacific
or
walking into the Post Office
to buy a 29 cent stamp (The price went up again)
and send my tax and regards to the atomic bomb
WALKING IN THE MORNING
I like to walk into the early morning
Da, da, dadada
the rhythm of shoes sounds young
Walk, walk, and walk
my feet start to become hooves
and me a horse
That allows me to run to the sun-brightened prairie
for grass
THE CLASS REPORT
The professor had a piece of
pretty academic phlegm in his throat
During the entire class he boiled boiled but never got it cooked
I really wanted to step forward and spit it for him
After some serious analysis, I found it nearly impossible
On that unlucky day many classmates also had a stomachache
PONDERING
What can pondering bring me
a moon
or a moderate brain injury?
The wind aimlessly blows
A small boat sails quietly
following the direction of a song
IF I HAVE A CHOICE
by Tu Ya
If I have a choice
I will die
with Spring
at exactly the moment
apple trees
are in their fullest blossom
I will fall
in a way a petal does
and become a silent stretch of grass
If I have a choice
I will die
with the city
at exactly the moment
the midnight
rocks and rolls to the maddest rhythm
I will explode
in a way an atomic bomb does
and become ruins of echoes
If I have a choice
I will hold
the most luxuries funeral in history
building my grave
with Walt Whitman's poems
and
burying my last breath
with moonlight
My eyes will close
towards the forest
where numerous elegies have been carved
on trunks of pines in Latin
and winds from all directions will cry
together with all leaves
for me
RETURNING HOME IN A DREAM
From far away, half asleep, I seem to hear Mom talking with
someone by the well, in our backyard.
Who is she talking to? One of those neighbors who always
chat with her? These people seem to exist in a different world
in which time is amplified by 20 times, and the price of pork,
the old backache, and the arrangement of daughters' weddings are
major topics. Never remember any of them. Well maybe some
smiles, and some fuzzy outlines. But never bothered to find out
who they are. And all these years I have been living a world in
which all great topics like politics, sciences, or the rotation
of the Earth are dealt with, the rhythm of life is rock n' roll,
and the name of the game is come's and go's...
"You know what? The water in this well all of a sudden
tastes real good. Isn't it mysterious? And it's off and on!
Uncle Wong said he drew some water and cooked some tasty tasty
rice. So I have been trying and trying all this morning to get
some of this tasty water, but the bucket doesn't work for me..."
I won't believe this, I am staying in the warm bed feeling
as comfortable as a pig, while Mom, in this freezing cold winter
day, is trying but failing to pull a bucket of water out of the
well for the whole morning! Mom, Mom, why didn't you ask me? Is
that because you think I am still a kid, or you don't want to
disturb my dreams? Oh, that' why. I suddenly recall that I have
been walking on this long, long journey home for all these years,
and still haven't reached home. How could she possibly ask for
my help?
"Mom I'm back! Just take a rest. I'll get it!"
She looks at me, and becomes narrowed eyes of a smile, her
gray hair seeming to drift in wind.
"Hey, my big son, are you back? Yeah, do it. The bucket is
full, just be careful and pull it up for me!"
I hold the rope, the bucket is so heavy that it drags my
heart down, and I really want to cry.
"Mom ..."
I try to play my man's toughness and hold my tears back, at
the same time pulling hard. But the rope is too excited to be
controlled and the well hits my bucket, hua ---, some water
splashed. I can't help but look at her. But she only smiles,
and forgets to blame me. I take advantage of it and speed up,
one, two ... it up!
I stand erect and wait for Mom's prize. Mom still smiles
without a word. And patters, patters, patters, her tears drop
into the bucket. Are these all my medals? Each one is a clear
and pretty water flower.
I open the palm
to get a good look of myself
and I find
a person is but a bunch of winding paths
all ending at cliffs
So I hurriedly clench my hand
to assure me of my strength
and I find
I am only curling myself up
to become a wrinkled picture of fate
--- Tu Ya
Subject: A MIRROR OF THE FACE (A POEM)
>From: xj...@oregon.uoregon.edu writes:
time glides, like shadows of birds, soundless
the mind grows old, like a pond, aged with moss
have you tried to scoop, from the water, for a few fishy days
but only grabbed several wrinkles, swimming in hands
like a mirror, of a face?
=====================================
Tears pour down, suddenly, like rain
Overnight, Gorby is gone. Disappeared, forever.
The red scar on his forehead marks today's headline.
Who fired that shot, at his head, that opened this tragic
political flower of this ending century?
I know the answer. The fortune teller said a red scar in the
head is a deadly sign for a man. So he murdered himself. Or
shall we say he sacrificed himself?
Men with woman-like faces have better luck, such as Mao, Zhou
Enlai, Jiang Zemin.
History archives Gorby's admirable smile in the coffin,
together with the peace agreement between the Polar Bear and
Uncle Sam, with people's hope for reform, for peace, for
separation, for a fresh breath, for better lives.
Before dust covers the murder scene, I cry, Gorby, for you.
"tears pour down, suddenly, like rain."
---- Zhuxi, Mao.
(More to come if so requested. To end my post, let me cite one more and
others' replys. If you don't like his poems, that is all right. But if you
want to make a big deal from what such a talented poet said, that is ceratinly
too much)
>From: t...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Shufeng Tan)
Subject: A POEM
Message-ID: <1991Apr4.0...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: 4 Apr 91 01:44:59 GMT
References: <20639.2...@oregon.uoregon.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Northwestern University
Lines: 38
In article <20639.2...@oregon.uoregon.edu> xj...@oregon.uoregon.edu writes:
>
> TO CHINA SPRING
> by Tu Ya
>
>You clench the red memory in your hand
>until it becomes black soil
>and drop a tear to make it pregnant
>
>Then you cover the winter ground with your body
>to hatch a live cry through your temperature
>
>If you are snow and really white
>then someday the stone worriers
>buried for thousands of years underground
> will germinate
> and grow into a plant
>
I have a poem, too.
TO CSH USER
A simple command is composed of a sequence of words.
The first word that is not part of an I/O redirection
specifies the command to be executed.
A simple command,
or a set of simple commands separated by | or |& characters,
forms a pipeline.
With |,
the standard output of the preceding command is redirected
to the standard input of the command that follows.
With |&,
both the standard error and the standard output
are redirected through the pipeline
>From: XC...@NS.CC.LEHIGH.EDU (Xiang Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: another 'poem'
Message-ID: <05049104:23:10X...@lehigh.bitnet>
Date: 5 Apr 91 09:23:39 GMT
Lines: 49
Those Tu Ya's peoms from John X's account are really good. Too bad
cann't agree with some his views on political issues. Here's one of
my 'peom'.
i was on this corner where
wind was whistling and the young girls
laughing
having nothing going makes you think
you can do anything
it was early afternoon last spring
for sea was white and the sky rainy
i was thinking of pretty Tina and
the reason of
revolution
either i was driving or in this bar
the sun over Broadway was
about coming down
someone's radio was playing a soft song
that's when i found out better
leaving this town
speaking broken language having
no money
that is why you feel still young
it was 6 pm last spring
for girls were on their heels and
boys were funny
i was thinking of pretty Tina and
the reason of
revolution
the words went down quickly when
its from Tina
this time was a red dress with flower
boys' wondering she'll be back soon
girls' saying what's so great about
red flower
rumor had that she was alone
in the cell
where wall has no window and
the bed smell
it was late in the night of last spring
for the band was loud and
streets were clean
i was thinking of pretty Tina and
the reason of
revolution
x.c. in pa, 'LISTEN WITHOUT PREJUDICE'
Lix's final notes: repost without permission, all right reserved to original
authors. Only hope netters can enjoy these poems which I do.
Zongyu Li
Recently, I read some articles in SCC about mainlanders' hostility
toward Taiwanese. As a mainlander, I would like to express my thoughts
about this subject. I DO NOT have any hostility toward Taiwanese people.
They are just human-being, like anybody else. No more or no less.
However, I do have some impressions of Taiwanese derived from my
interactions (albeit limited) with Taiwanese folks. I feel that most
Taiwanese fellows are generally more conservative, more shy than those
mainlanders. I don't mean that this is bad. It is just
a personality difference, so what?
I do have some negative views towards Taiwanese adminstration. With
regards to unification between mainland and Taiwan, I see that Taiwanese
government is setting up fences one after another against achieving
that goal. If unification is indeed the aspiration of both sides, why
Taiwanese government is relutant to sit down and talk with Beijing?
Talk might not resolve all the disputes, but at least is a minimum
step toward the unification goal. If Taiwan is indeed that "advance",
as KMT administration likes to boast all the times, why not let those
"poverty striking" mainlanders take a look at the "beautiful and
prosperous" island? It would be an eye-opener for those mainlanders.
While Taiwanese businessmen want to invest in Chinese coastal regions,
supposely to "help" those "poor" mainlanders, the Taiwanese government gets
really paranoid and decides to curtail the volume of Taiwanese
investments. Why the Taiwanese government is so shy? Something to hide
or what? The narrow-mindness of Taiwanese government is more than
obvious.
I sometimes get really irked by some Taiwanese's preaching of so-called
Taiwan model. Taiwan model is definitely unsuitable for mainland China,
in my opinion. Do you really want the whole China (1.1 billions people),
organized as a small family group, to make shoes or some low tech stuff
for exportation? Do you really want the bustling Heavenly Peace Avenue
in Beijing turning into a world of street vendors selling exotic food
or ornaments? Do you really want China to assemble all those computer
terminals for Japan or U.S.?
No way. China's path to economic success must rely on
large scale industries and DOMESTIC consuming market. The key
sectors for the coming China's industrial revolution are
infrastructural industries, such as energy generation,
transportation, communications, which Taiwan does not have much
experience to offer,
unless they are willing to give loan to China to start up these projects.
Can Taiwanese sell China a nuclear reactor for
power generation? No. Can Taiwanese sell aircraft engines for
supersonic flight? No! To be quite honest, Taiwanese technology is
not as good as that of mainland, despite of the fact that the
living standard of Taiwan is much higher than those of mainland
China and the average educational level is much higher. One thing
that has to be realized is that Taiwan and mainland China are
quite different. If China tries to immtate the the so-called Taiwan model,
it would be a huge mistake.
The above are only my views. I welcome comments.
Zongyu Li
Public BBS System
>
>I also feel bad about X Johnson's irritating posting. It was like a piece of
>mouse shit in a bowl of soup and made us uncomfortable. But it is not a
>big deal. I am amazed that you derived many 'big' conclusions from it:
>
1. Promoting hatred between mainlanders and Taiwanese.
2. They are pro-TIers and use an ironic way to promote TI.
3. They are so jealous on Taiwan's success that they want to see it be ruined.
That is a traditional Chinese way of jealousy.
With communism falling apart everywhere, you can feel the sense of crisis
deep in their mind.
>taiwanese chinese characters on their posting and ads., because that
What exactly is this Taiwanese Chinese characters?
Chou
chia-ming x huang ie stnt
In article <cdSW8qK00...@andrew.cmu.edu> zl...@andrew.cmu.edu (Zongyu Li) writes:
>
> I feel that most Taiwanese fellows are generally more conservative,
> more shy than those mainlanders. I don't mean that this is bad.
> It is just a personality difference, so what?
>
Yes, I am from Taiwan and I notice this before. I quite agree with you.
I think it's the education system that make the difference.
While I was just a kid. I was taught that TEAMWORK = GOOD, working on
something ALONE = get great chance to FAIL.
That's why.
> Why the Taiwanese government is so shy?
Why? Because they are afraid to lose. KMT and CCP talked to each other
before 1949. And then KMT failed. Of course, we suppose that this time
CCP is peaceful and sincere, but what if they are not?
Before 6.4, weren't those leaders of CCP look peaceful, nice to young men?
Did they look like killers? Even they thought the students were wrong,
how could they kill them?
We got only one small island left. Taiwanese goverment should not take this
chance NOW.
Don't be in such a hurry. They will have a talk, sooner or later.
> If China tries to immtate the the so-called Taiwan model,
> it would be a huge mistake.
Nope, China should not IMITATE the Taiwan model. You're right, they should
have their own model. Millions of millions of people in mainland.
They work so hard every day, but where's the money go? While most of Chinese
students here in US are working so hard to get the assistship and earn a
living, did you ever seen how those CCP high-level leaders' children live
here? Luxurious car, nice clothes, and playing golf, where is their money
come from? From their dads' salary? I don't think so.
What the Taiwanese Model can do is to be a reference to the leaders in China.
Taiwanese goverment did something wrong (or, still doing wrong) when they
tried to improve Taiwanese living standards. Don't do what we did wrong,
not only in economic development but in democratic also.
People in Taiwan and those in China are all Chinese. Same in diligence,
same intelligence, you are also abound in nature resources, human
resource. But leader after leader, why girls in China still cannot enjoy
shopping whatever beautiful dresses they like, guys cannot enjoy even
motocycling? They are young with talent and energy. They are not deserve
for working all day and getting low paid.
Just my personal feeling.
- Chia-Ming
Hsin-Ter Chang
>
>
> I DO NOT have any hostility toward Taiwanese people.
> They are just human-being, like anybody else. No more or no less.
> However, I do have some impressions of Taiwanese derived from my
> interactions (albeit limited) with Taiwanese folks. I feel that most
> Taiwanese fellows are generally more conservative, more shy than those
> mainlanders. I don't mean that this is bad. It is just
I don't know what do you mean by "more conserverative"? And I don't know how
did you come up with the impression? Maybe it is true in your school? But
Taiwanese fellows are certainly not "generally more conserverative" nor shyer
than the fellow mainlanders.
>
> I do have some negative views towards Taiwanese adminstration. With
> regards to unification between mainland and Taiwan, I see that Taiwanese
> government is setting up fences one after another against achieving
> that goal. If unification is indeed the aspiration of both sides, why
What a coincidence, I have some negative views towards both Taiwanese adminstration and Chinese Adminstration, too. I think that the Taiwanese goverment is not
democratic enough (although they show some sign of improvement) and Chinese
government just don't understand what the hell democracy is!
> Taiwanese government is relutant to sit down and talk with Beijing?
Talk about what?
I will have to say that Taiwan is smart enough not to sit down with Beijing to
talk about the reunification because there is nothing to talk about at PRESENT
time. It is certainly not an aspiration, at least not for Taiwan.(Maybe there
is a day when the two side join together, but now now, not under communism)
What is there for Taiwan if she unify with China? We have been doing just fine
for the past 40 years ALONE. In fact, without PROC's interferance, we might
be doing even better. At least Taiwan can become members of more international
organizations. The GNP is going to top $10,000 next year, I don't see reunification is going to bring Taiwan any short term or long term advantages.
> Talk might not resolve all the disputes, but at least is a minimum
> step toward the unification goal. If Taiwan is indeed that "advance",
Please do understand, unification might be the goal, Chinese goverment is definately not the one you want to have any part of it.Please give us a good reason
why Taiwan should unify with China now? Taiwan may not be a 100% democratic
country, being ruled by a regime that could cold-bloodedly ordered the tank
to crack down students demonstration is 10000000 times worse.
> as KMT administration likes to boast all the times, why not let those
> "poverty striking" mainlanders take a look at the "beautiful and
> prosperous" island? It would be an eye-opener for those mainlanders.
I agree with you, the restrictions should be lifted. Taiwan has nothing to be
afraid of. Remember how we feared if Taiwanese visited Mainland before the
ban was lifted? It turned out fine.
> While Taiwanese businessmen want to invest in Chinese coastal regions,
> supposely to "help" those "poor" mainlanders, the Taiwanese government gets
> really paranoid and decides to curtail the volume of Taiwanese
> investments. Why the Taiwanese government is so shy? Something to hide
> or what? The narrow-mindness of Taiwanese government is more than
> obvious.
>
Don't worry about the government stuff, Taiwanese businessmen have a way to get
away with them. Keep this in mind, for Taiwanese, business is business.
If you care to check out the figure, the mutual trading volume between Taiwan
and Mainland has jumped to 1st place or 2nd place on Mainland's list?
> I sometimes get really irked by some Taiwanese's preaching of so-called
> Taiwan model. Taiwan model is definitely unsuitable for mainland China,
> in my opinion. Do you really want the whole China (1.1 billions people),
> organized as a small family group, to make shoes or some low tech stuff
> for exportation? Do you really want the bustling Heavenly Peace Avenue
> in Beijing turning into a world of street vendors selling exotic food
> or ornaments? Do you really want China to assemble all those computer
> terminals for Japan or U.S.?
What Taiwan model really try to convey is the system, only under the free-
market system can the economy really work out fine. I am not an economist,
but I can see the communism surely did not excel in economy.
A baby has to learn how to crawl, then it starts to learn how to walk, then
it learns how to run. Even a strong economic power like Japan went thru those
stages.China has been way behind for many years, without those labor intense
industries, how do you collect all the money and experience to help you go thru
the transition successfully?
And if turning the "Heavenly Peace Avenue" of Beijing into a "world of street
vendors selling extoic food or ornament" can bring more tourists to her, why
not do it to bring more cash in? (Just kidding, actually, I am not crazy about
street vendors, either. It is just a side effect being a capitalistic soceity)
> No way. China's path to economic success must rely on
> large scale industries and DOMESTIC consuming market. The key
The idea is good but not realistic, how are the people in mainland going to
consume if 80 to 90 percent of their salaries are spent on food?
> sectors for the coming China's industrial revolution are
> infrastructural industries, such as energy generation,
> transportation, communications, which Taiwan does not have much
> experience to offer,
> unless they are willing to give loan to China to start up these projects.
> Can Taiwanese sell China a nuclear reactor for
> power generation? No. Can Taiwanese sell aircraft engines for
> supersonic flight? No! To be quite honest, Taiwanese technology is
> not as good as that of mainland, despite of the fact that the
Taiwan cannot sell nuclear reactor to China, Taiwan cannot sell aircraft
engines to built supersonic airplanes to China, but Taiwan can show China
how to make money!
Speaking of loans, then both sides has to settle about the details like the
interest rate and the terms of loans ........ Remember, business is business!
Like you point out,Taiwanese technology is not as good as that of China, still
Taiwan is able to loan Mainland, and help mainland set up factories in some
certain areas. Average Taiwanese make $8,000 in 1991 and ,average Hong Kongness
and Singaporeness make even more. Doesn't this make you wonder is it the
system that cause the difference?
> living standard of Taiwan is much higher than those of mainland
> China and the average educational level is much higher. One thing
> that has to be realized is that Taiwan and mainland China are
> quite different. If China tries to immtate the the so-called Taiwan model,
> it would be a huge mistake.
>
Taiwan has no natural resources, Taiwan has limited land.The secret Taiwan
excels is her treasured man-power and relentless working habit.That is the
Taiwan model we try to sell. Keep this in mind, if Taiwanese can do it so can
you. But you must learn to do it the right way, the capitalistic way!!
H.T. Chang
ber...@baepv3.ncsu.edu
>People in Taiwan and those in China are all Chinese. Same in diligence,
>same intelligence, you are also abound in nature resources, human
>resource. But leader after leader, why girls in China still cannot enjoy
I really do not think so.!!!
>shopping whatever beautiful dresses they like, guys cannot enjoy even
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -----------------------
This is true.
>motocycling? They are young with talent and energy. They are not deserve
------------
Jeff Chu
I do have some negative views towards Taiwanese adminstration. With
regards to unification between mainland and Taiwan, I see that Taiwanese
government is setting up fences one after another against achieving
that goal. If unification is indeed the aspiration of both sides, why
Taiwanese government is relutant to sit down and talk with Beijing?
[.................]
Why the Taiwanese government is so shy? Something to hide
or what? The narrow-mindness of Taiwanese government is more than
obvious.
The above criticism of the KMT govenment is based on the assumption,
"if unification is indeed the aspiration of both sides." Since the
assumption is not valid, the criticism does not apply.
KMT by no means wants unification. But it has to pretend that
unification is its ultimate goal in order to maintain its ruling
power. With the excuse that ROC eventually will "take back" mainland
and Mongolia, KMT suspended the ROC constitution and tailored the
ruling system in Taiwan to its own favor in the four decades after it
fled to Taiwan.
Under pressures from both inside and outside, KMT knows it must move
toward democracy. But its goal is to remain in unchallangable control
even after constitution must be followed by any government.
[Currently, the constitution is un-followable by any one who does
not control Taiwan, mainland and Mongolia. So, KMT needs not any
excuse for not following the constitution. But KMT is planning a
constitution amendment to defeat the call for a new constitution.]
This is possible just like what happens in Japan. However, KMT has
not yet achieved the status as the ruling party of Japan has. For
example, without the power derived from the "eventually unification"
excuse, KMT would not have total control and hance victory in the
recent election of National Assembly. However, once they do not need
the protection from "eventually unification," the mainstream KMT, who
are labeled as IT by CCP, will drop the unification claim.
There isn't much hope to stop this trend. Those KMT who still favor
unification, i.e. the non-mainstream KMT, are losing power gradually
in the Party. Even if they can regain the control through a coup,
which is virtually impossible after the outcome of the ex-USSR coup,
they will not unify with PRC. Even the pro-unification faction of KMT
is only talking unification in hypothetic tone. "When one day
mainland becomes ...., we will unify China and live happily forever."
In their hypotheses, mainland would always become a nice place
magically (i.e. KMT in Taiwan need not shed much sweat and blood for
that), and the mainland people will always want KMT back as the
leaders.
I sometimes get really irked by some Taiwanese's preaching of so-called
Taiwan model. Taiwan model is definitely unsuitable for mainland China,
in my opinion.
"Taiwan model" is used to pretend that KMT still wants unification.
There is never a concrete definition on what is Taiwan model and how
it can be applied to PRC. It does not mean democratic system, for
Taiwan has yet to form a democratic system. It does not mean the
policies KMT implemented in Taiwan, for PRC is not an island with 20
million population. It is a media hype. You should not take it
seriously.
I-Shang Chu
Joe Wang
>KMT by no means wants unification. But it has to pretend that
>unification is its ultimate goal in order to maintain its ruling
>power.
Let's assume that you are correct, and that this whole "unification"
business is a conspiracy by some top KMT leaders.
How does faking unification help keep the KMT in control?
Sure it gives them an excuse for doing non-democratic things, but why
THIS excuse.
For example, the KMT couldn't suspend the constitution with the excuse
that "God wanted us to set up a theocracy." People simply wouldn't
accept it.
So why do people fall for this particular excuse? Perhaps because
"eventual unification" strikes a resonant chord among most Taiwanese.
(My ESP says that you will say that lots of Taiwanese favor
unification because they have been "brainwashed" by the KMT.)
>the mainstream KMT, who
>are labeled as IT by CCP, will drop the unification claim.
Are Lee Deng Hui and Premier Hau mainstream KMT? I know that Lee
thinks it would be a good idea if Taiwan were to have it's own seat in
the U.N. like West Germany did before unification.
Who do you consider KMT mainstream and what are their views toward
unification?
>There is never a concrete definition on what is Taiwan model and how
>it can be applied to PRC.
I've heard a lot of concrete definitions of the Taiwan model.
Basically, develop you industries via exports.
It's agreed that this won't work for the PRC as a whole (the export
market isn't big enough), but it may work for selected regions which
can then pump capital into and serve as markets for the rest of the
PRC.
We can call these select regions "special economic zones."
Also, there has been talk with the CCP of a "new authoritarianism"
which resembles the KMT government of the 1970's.
I've always suspected that the CCP copies more from the KMT than they
are willing to admit.
dh...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
> (X Johnson) wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The so-called Guo2 Yu3 (national language) should be called Dao3 Yu3
>>> (island language), for only an island speeks it.
>>>
>>>2. The so-called Guo2 Yu3 is the refugee version of PU3 tong1 hua4, for
>>> it was exiled with Jiang3 Fei3 to Taiwan.
>>>
>>>3. The men in Taiwan are like women when they speak their so-called Guo2
>>> Yu3, as if they were Lao3 niang2 men'er. Seems to me the Guo2 yu3 does
>>> not have bones or proper hermone.
>>>
>>>4. Taiwan people have degenerated after speaking that slavish language.
>>> The way to regain oral health is to speak Pu3 tong1 hua4 like Beijing
>>> people speak it. Especially like peasants. Their language may be Tu3,
>>> but is at least musculine.
>>>
>
>Before the mainlanders' hostility toward Taiwan vanishes, which I don't quite
>see possible in the near future, I have only one sentence toward unification:
>" OVER MY DEAD BODY! "
If the hostility can justify anti-unification, then Shanghai should long
be independent, because of the immense hostility toward Shanghaians from
other parts of China. There are a lot of hostility among Taiwan people also,
so let's split Taiwan, too.