repost- The myths of chinese long march
Marcus Aurelius
The fourth red army was slaughtered by mohamedan warlords.
Tens of thousands died hungry and cold, just for following mao.
Few had any idea what they were doing - like the jihadis of today.
Adi Anant
===
>From Daily Times of pakiland
www.dailytimes.com.pk
Thursday, March 23, 2006 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer
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VIEW: The real Long March - Sun Shuyun
If the Marchers had doubts, they conquered them with the help of
propaganda. They rose to their ordeal with a bravery and self-sacrifice
unsurpassed in China's or anyone's history. What motivated them? I
asked a top general what he knew of communism at the time. "I had no
idea then and now," he replied. "I doubt that even Mao knew what it
was"
Every nation has its founding myth. For Communist China, it is the Long
March - a story on a par with Moses leading the Israelites' exodus
out of Egypt. I was raised on it.
The myth can be stated succinctly. The fledgling Communist Party and
its three Red Armies were driven out of their bases in the South in the
early 1930s by Chiang Kaishek's Nationalist government. Pursued and
harried by their enemies, they crossed high mountains, turbulent
rivers, and impassable grassland, with Mao steering the course from
victory to victory. After two years and 10,000 miles of endurance,
courage, and hope against impossible odds, the Red Armies reached
northwest China. Only a fifth of the 200,000 soldiers remained, worn
out, battered, but defiant. A decade later, they fought back, defeated
Chiang Kaishek, and launched Mao's New China.
How does China's founding myth stand up to reality?
In 2004, 70 years after it began, I set out to retrace the Long March.
It remains a daunting journey, through areas little changed to this
day, inaccessible, and desperately poor. Of the 40,000 survivors,
perhaps 500 are still alive; I tracked down and interviewed 40 of them
- ordinary people who were left behind or managed to reach the end,
but with stories that are highly instructive.
Huang Zhiji was a boy, little taller than his rifle, when he joined the
Red Army. He had no choice: they had arrested his father and would not
release him until Huang agreed. He thought of deserting, but stayed for
fear of being caught and shot. Many did run away. Six weeks into the
March, Mao's First Army was reduced from 86,000 to 30,000 troops. The
loss is still blamed on the Xiang River Battle, the army's first big
engagement of the March. But at most 15,000 died in battle; the rest
vanished.
Another battle, over the Dadu River, is the core of the Long March
legend: 22 brave men supposedly overpowered a regiment of Nationalist
troops guarding the chains of the Luding Bridge with machine guns, and
opened the way for the Marchers. Mao told Edgar Snow, author of Red
Star Over China, that crossing the Dadu River was the single most
important incident during the Long March, and today it is eulogised as
such.
But documents that I have seen indicate that the general who commanded
the division that crossed the Dadu River first told Party historians a
very different story. "This affair was not as complicated as people
made it out to be later", he said. "When you investigate historical
facts, you should respect the truth. How you present it is a different
matter."
So the legend lives on. There was only a skirmish over the Dadu River.
The local warlord, who hated Chiang Kaishek, let Mao pass. As a reward,
he was later made a minister in the Communist government.
The Marchers did not know where they would end up. There were constant
debates about the final destination. When they converged in north China
in October 1936, it was hailed as the end of the March. But the
"promised land" was not as promised. It could barely support its
own population, let alone the Red Armies.
Soldiers had no clothes to protect them from freezing cold. Women were
ordered to turn back and go home because there was not enough food.
Barely a month after the union of the three Red Armies, the Party
decided that the Long March was to continue. But the kidnapping of
Chiang Kaishek by the general he had appointed to wipe out the
Communists saved them. As part of the price for his release, Chiang
recognised the Communists as legitimate. The Long March was over.
Not, however, for the 21,000 men and women of the Western Legion. They
belonged to the Fourth Army, headed by Zhang Guotao, Mao's archrival.
Their mission was to get help from Russia at the border in western
China. But Mao kept sending them contradictory orders; the result was
that they could neither fight nor retreat.
Trapped in barren land where survival was difficult, the overwhelming
forces of Muslim warlords wiped them out. Only 400 reached the border;
the rest were killed or captured.
It was the Red Army's biggest defeat. Yet it is missing from official
history. Wang Quanyan, a senior officer, was taken by a Muslim
commander as a concubine. That was enough to make her a traitor in the
eyes of the Party, negating all her years of dedication. She and the
rest of the Fourth Army survivors had to fight for half a century to be
recognised as Marchers.
The Long Marchers persevered, fought, starved, despaired, and endured.
Hunger drove the armies to take hostages for ransom. Purges continued
until practically no officers were left to command battles. If the
Marchers had doubts, they conquered them with the help of Communist
propaganda. They rose to their ordeal with a bravery and self-sacrifice
unsurpassed in China's or anyone's history.
What motivated them? I asked a top general what he knew of communism at
the time. "I had no idea then and now," he replied. "I doubt that
even Mao knew what it was." For him, a survivor of extreme poverty
and oppression, communism was a beautiful, sustaining dream, the hope
of a just and advanced society.
Perhaps no one knew or could know how much suffering would lie ahead,
how vast the sacrifice would be, and how great the difference would be
between the dream and the reality. - DT-PS
Sun Shuyun is author of 'The Long March', to be published in March
2006
leejunrun
about the Long March.I even suspect that you haven't gone to China or
you shouldn't say these.
rst0...@yahoo.com
Probably, most of the low-ranks didn't know the reason. You bet Mao
Zedong and his high-up people knew very well what they had to do to
survive. And they did survived.
Marcus Aurelius
It as Mao's survival, and the peasants' deaths.
What was so bad about Kai Shek that tens of millions of deaths under
Mao were justified?
And now, china has ditched mao anyhow.
Chiang allied with the US, and the chinese today are growing thanks to
the US.
It is Chiang who has made a come back dressed up in suits, not maoist
caps.
The chinese have no sense of perspective or ability to distinguish
facts from propaganda. These lemmings can be led anywhere as long as
they are forced or fooled into it.
Adi Anant
rst0...@yahoo.com
>What was so bad about Kai Shek that tens of millions of deaths under
>Mao were justified?
>And now, china has ditched mao anyhow.
>Chiang allied with the US, and the chinese today are growing thanks to
>the US.
>It is Chiang who has made a come back dressed up in suits, not maoist
>caps.
>The chinese have no sense of perspective or ability to distinguish
>facts from propaganda. These lemmings can be led anywhere as long as
>they are forced or fooled into it.
>Adi Anant
What's this? You must be lecher dog's best friend!!
ltlee1
According to some other poster. He or she is an Indian. May be he or
she envious of China's developmental achievement.
ltlee1
You are welcome to criticize China or the Chinese people.
But such blanket statement only reflect your racism.
>
> Adi Anant
demor...@aol.com
The Long March will turn out to be one of the biggest myths of the
twentieth century ... along with the Bermuda Triangle and Bigfoot
(Yeti).
James
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
> And now, china has ditched mao anyhow.
> Chiang allied with the US, and the chinese today are growing thanks to
> the US.
>
> It is Chiang who has made a come back dressed up in suits, not maoist
> caps.
>
Taiwan would be just another Chinese province now if not for Chiang.
The anti-commie Chiang was hated by the US. The US rather support
Chiang than have a communist victory. The Taiwan miracle would not
have happened without American $. Billions and Billions.
Funny thing is Taiwan is now removing many statues of Chiang. Guess
history is rewritten on both sides.
ltlee1
James wrote:
> Marcus Aurelius wrote:
> > And now, china has ditched mao anyhow.
> > Chiang allied with the US, and the chinese today are growing thanks to
> > the US.
> >
> > It is Chiang who has made a come back dressed up in suits, not maoist
> > caps.
> >
> > Adi Anant
>
> Taiwan would be just another Chinese province now if not for Chiang.
> The anti-commie Chiang was hated by the US. The US rather support
> Chiang than have a communist victory. The Taiwan miracle would not
> have happened without American $. Billions and Billions.
And tons and tons of gold from mainland.
J.Venning
> The Long March will turn out to be one of the biggest myths of the
> twentieth century ... along with the Bermuda Triangle and Bigfoot
> (Yeti).
>
J.
PaPaPeng
<rst0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
What the Commmunists guerillas went through and achieved is an epic
that will outshine anything our planet's past civilizations can come
up with. The Long March is an epic a future civilization will find
impossible to better. Had it not actually occurred, and if it is not
us now living with the consequences of their achievements, men would
justifiably call them and us liars.
There is without doubt many embellishments in the details of their
adventures. There will be without doubt even fictional tales and
many romanticizations in future retellings of this epic. Just as
certain future research will uncover and debunk many of the tales of
heroism and impossible deeds. But you know what? Millions, and I
included, will not care. On this very real and epic story we will
build an even more inspiring body of literature. Nobody calls the
Chinese classics such as The Romance of the Three Kingdoms factual
history. But "Romance" has indelibly etched into the minds of
countless generations of Chinese our knowledge of those times and
mores. These classics are what makes us unmistakably Chinese in body
and in soul. The Long March will do that and more. This epic has yet
to be written in its final form. When that happens we will tell and
retell it to our children as long as there will be a people.
demor...@aol.com
PaPaPeng wrote:
> Just as
> certain future research will uncover and debunk many of the tales of
> heroism and impossible deeds. But you know what? Millions, and I
> included, will not care.
Ha ha
bmo...@nyx.net
PaPaPeng wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2006 11:04:55 -0800, "rst0...@yahoo.com"
> <rst0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >The "Long March" was survival or death under Chiang Kai Sek's army.
> >Probably, most of the low-ranks didn't know the reason. You bet Mao
> >Zedong and his high-up people knew very well what they had to do to
> >survive. And they did survived.
>
>
> What the Commmunists guerillas went through and achieved is an epic
> that will outshine anything our planet's past civilizations can come
> up with. The Long March is an epic a future civilization will find
> impossible to better. Had it not actually occurred, and if it is not
> us now living with the consequences of their achievements, men would
> justifiably call them and us liars.
> There is without doubt many embellishments in the details of their
> adventures. There will be without doubt even fictional tales and
> many romanticizations in future retellings of this epic. Just as
> certain future research will uncover and debunk many of the tales of
> heroism and impossible deeds. But you know what? Millions, and I
> included, will not care.
Washington crossed the Delaware. But he did not chop down a cherry
tree. Both contribute to his legend but what is true is more important.
PaPaPeng
>Washington crossed the Delaware. But he did not chop down a cherry
>tree. Both contribute to his legend but what is true is more important.
People do not remember history. People do remember myths. Each
medium has its place. Who can forget LLiad or The Odeyssey
WIKIPEDIA: [Homer (Greek ?µ???? Hómeros) was a legendary early Greek
poet and rhapsode traditionally credited with the composition of the
Iliad and the Odyssey, commonly assumed to have lived in the 8th
century BC.]
To this day, when the historic accuracy of those Greek legends still
provide much material for lively debate and clarification, the body of
those epics have not lost one iota of their glory and ability to
inspire us.
In comparison to The Long March The Lliad (and the Odesyssey) would be
but a skirmish in comparison. China's Long March had its origins ten
generations past. Its events and aftermath is spread across a vast
canvas over an equally vast cast of superhuman characters. The legend
that will result is still an on-going work in progress. The
remarkable thing is that we are living in it.
On Washington's crossing of the Deleware anyone who has ever been on a
boat will laugh at his (Washington) standing on the bow holding the
flag high. The whole boat crew would have been dunked promptly in the
icy water and drowned. Historians and absolute truth advocates can
quibble on the accuracy of that painting. But that painting must have
inspired generations of schoolkids who saw it. And many adults do not
question the veracity of Washington in his noble if ridiculous pose.
Such is the stuff of legends. Legends will survive long after the
history is forgotten.
Jim Walsh
<k90o22lvp8mhmudm7...@4ax.com>):
This is not a myth:
"Over 100,000 men began the trek on October 1934; only about 8,000 arrived
one year later in Yennan."
http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/people_n2/persons6_n2/l_march.html
Why would anyone call this sort of disaster heroic or great?
It reminds me of cases in the US Army where some idiots would do something
causing huge numbers of deaths, and to prevent this event from being
considered a failure, the commanding officers are given medals.
Incidentally, I wonder how widely known it is in China that Mao was carried
the whole way in sedan chairs?
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/east_asian_history/116516
--
Love, Jim
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PaPaPeng
<jim_S_N_P_O_...@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
>"Over 100,000 men began the trek on October 1934; only about 8,000 arrived
>one year later in Yennan."
>
>http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/people_n2/persons6_n2/l_march.html
>
>Why would anyone call this sort of disaster heroic or great?
Might as well go take a walk and call yourself a hero.
J.Venning
>>"Over 100,000 men began the trek on October 1934; only about 8,000 arrived
>>one year later in Yennan."
>>http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/people_n2/persons6_n2/l_march.html
>>Why would anyone call this sort of disaster heroic or great?
> Might as well go take a walk and call yourself a hero.
>
J.
Jim Walsh
(in article <f6ap22p2svm26fi7l...@4ax.com>):
I am not claiming to be heroic.
You are claiming that the leader of a retreat that killed or left abandoned
92,000 of the original 100,000 while he rode in a sedan chair was a hero.
I can't imagine why.
PaPaPeng
<jim_S_N_P_O_...@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
>You are claiming that the leader of a retreat that killed or left abandoned
>92,000 of the original 100,000 while he rode in a sedan chair was a hero.
>
>I can't imagine why.
Good try. If you think I am going to correct for you your utter lack
of knowledge of history you can't think very well. Go do your own
homework.
demor...@aol.com
PaPaPeng admitted he doesn't care about true history, then he complains
about an (imagined) utter lack of knowledge of history on the part of
another. Ha ha.
"Just as certain future research will uncover and debunk many of the
tales of heroism and impossible deeds. But you know what? Millions,
and I included, will not care."
-- PaPaPeng
J.Venning
>>You are claiming that the leader of a retreat that killed or left abandoned
>>92,000 of the original 100,000 while he rode in a sedan chair was a hero.
>>I can't imagine why.
> Good try. If you think I am going to correct for you your utter lack
> of knowledge of history you can't think very well. Go do your own
> homework.
>
J.