"Mac" vs "Mc"
HEATHER CAMERON
1)anit Jacobites dropped the "a".
2)one denotes a Catholic family and the other a Protestant family.
3)the "a" was too difficult to write with a quill pen so it was replaced with
a "c".
4)they couldn't spell very well.
Does anybody know the correct answer?
Heather Cameron
Eoin O'Riain
: I've heard different reasons for "Mac" and "Mc" spelling. For example:
: Heather Cameron
Mac is the correct spelling and is the Irish - Gaelic word for Son
Mc is probably a shortned version which occurs only in English as far as
I know
I don't think there is any real religious connotation as of now in the
use of Mac or Mc McCarthy is a Catholic name as is MacSweeney and McSweeney
The O in Irish names was omitted for many reasons however including
religious but in Irish forms it always remains
Hope this helps
Curt Marcus
To put this another way, I've heard different reasons for "Smythe" and "Smith"
spelling. For example:
1) anti-Lancastrians (Yorkists) changed the 'i' to 'y'.
2) one denotes a High Church family and the other a Low Church or Noncon-
formist family.
3) the 'i', when written with a quill pen, looked too much like an 'e' with
an ink splatter above it.
4) they couldn't spell very well.
In both your example and mine, the correct answer is:
5) None of the above.
The reason for the difference is the same reason why Ben Jonson didn't have
an 'h' in his last name: he didn't want to spell it that way. Actually, to
some extent the answer could be your #4, since illiteracy was quite common
for many centuries among the lower classes. But there are lots of cases
where the spelling was changed back and forth from one generation to the
next, and even cases where one brother would use 'Mac' while another would
use 'Mc'--it was, most commonly, simply a question of personal taste. The
main problem is that the 'Mac'/'Mc' was an Anglicisation of a Celtic word,
and the Roman alphabet is only approximately useful in spelling Gaelic lan-
guages (for example, the need for fadas, and the elimination of useless
letters like 'k'), so any spelling that approximated the appropriate sounds
was acceptible.
But you can almost certainly count out such 'cute' explanations as Catholic
v. Protestant spellings, or Jacobite v. Hanoverian spellings. And if it was
the quill pen excuse, then all the a's would have been dropped from the lan-
guage entirely, since quill pen was the only writing implement for a long
time. And remember, too, that even English spellings were inconsistent for
centuries (which is why we have Smythes as well as Smiths).
The Curtmudgeon
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Colin Campbell
In article <014809c.6...@axe.acadiau.ca>, HEATHER CAMERON (014...@axe.acadiau.ca) writes:
>I've heard different reasons for "Mac" and "Mc" spelling. For example:
>
written documents. They are both commonly used interchangably
with the full spelling Mac until the end of the nineteenth century.
since then there's been some standardization of the spelling of
"Mac" names, with Mc predominating in Ireland and Mac in
Scotland and M' falling out of use. In Irish or Scottish Gaelic the
Mac element of the name is always written in full.
Old Scottish documents also use Vc or V' for the Gaelic Mhic in
names (Anglice Vic).
Actually compared to the strange things that sometimes happen
to the rest of the surname in anglicization, the reduction of Mac
to Mc is a fairly innocuous change
Colin
Dermot McNally
>
>I've heard different reasons for "Mac" and "Mc" spelling. For example:
>1)anit Jacobites dropped the "a".
>2)one denotes a Catholic family and the other a Protestant family.
>3)the "a" was too difficult to write with a quill pen so it was replaced with
> a "c".
>4)they couldn't spell very well.
Well, it's almost certainly *not* number 2. My guess is that it's sort
of like number 4, but that spelling evolved in separate directions in
different regions. Also, both Mc and Mac as used in familiar names
are anglicised forms, so the spelling used would depend who anglicised
the names, when and where.
Dermot
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Phone +353-1-8252074 |
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Barbara Lynne Nash
>In article <014809c.6...@axe.acadiau.ca>, 014...@axe.acadiau.ca says...
>>
>>I've heard different reasons for "Mac" and "Mc" spelling. For example:
>>1)anit Jacobites dropped the "a".
>>2)one denotes a Catholic family and the other a Protestant family.
>>3)the "a" was too difficult to write with a quill pen so it was replaced with
>> a "c".
>>4)they couldn't spell very well.
>
>Well, it's almost certainly *not* number 2. My guess is that it's sort
>of like number 4, but that spelling evolved in separate directions in
>different regions. Also, both Mc and Mac as used in familiar names
>are anglicised forms, so the spelling used would depend who anglicised
>the names, when and where.
I'm not certain why there are *different* spellings, but I believe the
original (Scots?) gaelic spelling is 'Meac'. For example, Mac Ardry
would have been Meac Ard Righ (Son of the High King).
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here. =)
Delurking,
Barb Nash (Conley)
--
Barb Nash | bn...@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu | Real Men Don't
Computer Science | bn...@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu | Fear Gays
Cal Poly, SLO, CA | ba...@mystery.lib.calpoly.edu |#include <std.disclaimer>
Alan Smaill
In article <2...@cruachan.win-uk.net> col...@cruachan.win-uk.net (Colin Campbell) writes:
colinc> since then there's been some
colinc> standardization of the spelling of "Mac" names, with Mc
colinc> predominating in Ireland and Mac in Scotland and M' falling
colinc> out of use.
An unrepresentative flick through the Edinburgh phone book suggests
Mc and Mac are on more or less equal footing here.
--
Alan Smaill email: A.Sm...@ed.ac.uk
LFCS, Dept. of Computer Science tel: 44-31-650-2710
University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, UK.
Suze Hammond
CC> In article <014809c.6...@axe.acadiau.ca>, HEATHER CAMERON
CC> (014...@axe.acadiau.ca) writes: >I've heard different reasons for
CC> "Mac" and "Mc" spelling. For example: >Does anybody know the correct
CC> answer? >
CC> Mc and M' were scribal abbreviations used in English (or Scots)
CC> written documents. They are both commonly used interchangably
CC> with the full spelling Mac until the end of the nineteenth century.
CC> since then there's been some standardization of the spelling of
CC> "Mac" names, with Mc predominating in Ireland and Mac in
CC> Scotland and M' falling out of use. In Irish or Scottish Gaelic the
CC> Mac element of the name is always written in full.
CC> Old Scottish documents also use Vc or V' for the Gaelic Mhic in
CC> names (Anglice Vic).
CC> Actually compared to the strange things that sometimes happen
CC> to the rest of the surname in anglicization, the reduction of Mac
CC> to Mc is a fairly innocuous change
CC> Colin
We've had printing, typewriters and word processors around so long that we
tend to forget that every clerical entry used to be done by hand.
In the era in which these changes cropped up, there were all sorts of
abreviations done, "Wm." for William comes to mind, all to save the aching
hands of scribes. Since "everyone" knew what M' or Mc stood for (and
rounded letters take the most strokes, "a" in particular) there was no
harm in leaving it out. Which version you ended up with depended upon
local custom among scribes at the time that printing took over...
... Suze
An Fionnaineach
> Colin Campbell writes:
> In article <2...@cruachan.win-uk.net> col...@cruachan.win-uk.net (Colin Campbell) writes:
>
> colinc> since then there's been some
> colinc> standardization of the spelling of "Mac" names, with Mc
> colinc> predominating in Ireland and Mac in Scotland and M' falling
> colinc> out of use.
>
> An unrepresentative flick through the Edinburgh phone book suggests
> Mc and Mac are on more or less equal footing here.
>
> --
> Alan Smaill email: A.Sm...@ed.ac.uk
That may just be an indication of the high numbers of Irish in Scotland!
Robert Finan `Mar na/ beidh a/r leithe/idi/ ari/s ann'
(eet...@dct.ac.uk)