Pronounciation of word Celt
sunny
Hey, can anybody out there tell me if celt is pronounced as cell or
kel----t?
Garry Lee
Kelt.
CANDOCOP
In article <5pvavr$p1p$1...@nuacht.iol.ie>, Garry Lee <gl...@iol.ie> writes:
>Subject: Re: Pronounciation of word Celt
>From: Garry Lee <gl...@iol.ie>
>Date: 9 Jul 1997 06:27:07 GMT
>
>Kelt.
>
>--
Well having grown up in the Highlands of the West Coast of Scotland I
always heard it called Selt/Seltic by the locals. But it doesn't matter so
long as the people know what you are talking about.
Dave M.
Andrew Sneddon
Dr. Jack <if...@nmsua.nmsu.edu> wrote in article
<ifjed.492...@nmsua.nmsu.edu>...
> >Well having grown up in the Highlands of the West Coast of Scotland I
> >always heard it called Selt/Seltic by the locals. But it doesn't matter
so
> >long as the people know what you are talking about.
> >Dave M.
>
> You've restored my faith in the Scots, Dave, with your reasonable answer.
> Unfortunately, most Scots with whom I've had contact with the past just
> screamed and ranted about it and I'd developed sort of a negative opinion
of
> them, despite the fact that I'm 3/4 Scots-Irish.
>
>
I favour K-elt with a hard 'k'
I believe early scots circa 4 century had no letter K. Hence the 'k' sound
is traditionaly written 'c'
Don't forget our <scots> sounds written in english are
approximations...English wether we like it or not is an adopted one and not
our own. Where i come from, Fife, i have never ever heard celt pronouned
with a soft 'c' at the front. Exept in the context of the soccer team
celtic, or the boston celtics.
Bill501
>Well having grown up in the Highlands of the West Coast of Scotland I
>always heard it called Selt/Seltic by the locals. But it doesn't matter
so
>long as the people know what you are talking about.
>Dave M.
I certainly agree with that. Prounciation is in the mouth of the speaker
:->
The problem is that here in the US if you said Seltic, nearly everyone
would think you meant a basketball team.
It reminds me of a conversation with the editor of _The Celator_ (a
journel of ancient and medieval art & artifacts. A celator was a coin die
engraver). I asked him how to pronounce 'Celator' and he said. "No one
knows, but I pronounce it Sellator. Pronounce it like you like." I
responded, "Well, I'm a Kelt, I'm going to pronounce it Kelator!". (put
the accent anywhere you like)
It would be nice to know what the Celts called themselves. I suspect that
'Keltoi' was how the Greeks heard whatever sound the Celts made. But then
do we know how the ancient Greeks said, "Keltoi".
Bill
Dr. Jack
>Hey, can anybody out there tell me if celt is pronounced as cell or
>kel----t?
Trying to start a fight or what?
The preferred Irish and Scottish pronunciation is kelt. Scandinavians
also say kelt. The traditional English, North American, French and non-
Castilian Spanish pronunciation is selt(a) (Castilians say "thelta.").
(My girlfriend is Spanish, half-Galician and so probably at least partly
Celt, as well as an archaeologist interested in Celtic culture. So I tried
an experiment once. At the start of a discussion, instead of saying selt, I
said kelt. And she just looked at me and said, "What???? She didn't have a
clue what I was talking about. If a Celt doesn't know how to pronounce
Celt, how can anyone else?
Anyway, some will claim that kelt is only "correct" pronunciation because
the Greeks, who first wrote the word, wrote keltoi (what if they heard
poorly and it's really Gelt or Geld?). The Romans, who had no k, changed it
to celtici, thus, irritating these k celts to no end. On this basis, the
kelt part would seem to be truer to the original, whatever that was which
will never be known.
Languages, however, are not static, but change through time, and there is no
reason have one "correct" pronunciation in English of all languages (
Celt is after all an English word). As that famous Scottish-American
linguist President Andrew Jackson said, "It's a damn poor mind that can't
think of more than one way to spell a word." One could argue, after all,
that Celtic is an English word derived from and through several languages
and that since English dances on uniformity and logic when it comes to
pronunciation, who cares? In fact, Celt actually obeys the English rules of
pronunciation (although English dictionaries allow for keltic). But some
won't like this out of pure spite for all things English. And since rules
in English are made to be broken, why not break this one, too?
Of course, if you even attempt to discuss this, you may be flamed to high
heaven by language "purists". The Scots and Irish who do this don't bother
me that much; I can understand if they feel the need to try to irritate the
English and maintain what little cultural identity they have left. However,
it is mostly irritating when Americans, whose only connection to the Celts
is listening to "Thistle and Shamrock" on the radio, start preaching about
the "correctness" of kelt. So, be forewarned.
Interests: Coryphanthae cacti, halophyte/Tamarisk ecology,
tropical dry forests, conservation education/
wilderness areas
Quotes of the Week:
I have learned that the swiftest traveler is he that goes
afoot."
"To make a railroad round the world available to all mankind is
equivalent to grading the whole surface of the planet."
Walden, Henry David Thoreau
Dr. Jack
>Well having grown up in the Highlands of the West Coast of Scotland I
>always heard it called Selt/Seltic by the locals. But it doesn't matter so
>long as the people know what you are talking about.
>Dave M.
You've restored my faith in the Scots, Dave, with your reasonable answer.
Unfortunately, most Scots with whom I've had contact with the past just
screamed and ranted about it and I'd developed sort of a negative opinion of
them, despite the fact that I'm 3/4 Scots-Irish.
Interests: Coryphanthae cacti, halophyte/Tamarisk ecology,
Bill501
Todd said,
>It's Kelt with a hard 'c'. "c" in gaelic is always pronounced "k"
In Greek too where the word 'Celt' came from (Keltoi)
Bill
Schrivener,Todd
It's Kelt with a hard 'c'. "c" in gaelic is always pronounced "k".
Annoy you r friends, call the NBA team the Boston Keltics. I do.
> ----------
> From: sunny[SMTP:s...@tcia.net]
> Posted At: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 8:23 PM
> Posted To: celtic culture
> Conversation: Pronounciation of word Celt
> Subject: Pronounciation of word Celt
Garry Lee
The rather hung-over actor, Richard Burton, was approached by an
enthusiastic American fan in an airport, who gushed
"Mr.Burton, I'm so glad to meet you. We're both Selts!"
"NO", answered Burton, "I'm a kelt and you're a sunt"
Garry Lee
What little cultural identity?
The Scots and the Irish have among the strongest cultural identities
there are on the planet. I've never seen such trite nonsense.
Garry Lee
That was a very kerebral argument!
That's my 2 kents worth.
Dr. Jack
I'd say Mr. Burton was an arse. Is this why you identify with him?
hamei@pacbell.net@pacbell.net
In <01bc8cb8$b493fdc0$534698c2@default>, "Andrew Sneddon" <and...@asneddon.source.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>Dr. Jack <if...@nmsua.nmsu.edu> wrote in article
><ifjed.492...@nmsua.nmsu.edu>...
>> >always heard it called Selt/Seltic by the locals. But it doesn't matter
>Where i come from, Fife, i have never ever heard celt pronouned
>with a soft 'c' at the front. Exept in the context of the soccer team
>celtic, or the boston celtics.
>
I think its really the Boston Selltics, anyway . . . anyone looked
at their salaries recently ??
Kevin Daly
Pretty much, yeah. 'K' in Greek was always pronounced hard. The 's'
pronunciation of 'c', along with 'ts', 'tch' etc. is a result of linguistic
change in languages after the introduction of writing. In Latin 'k' (which
was very rare) and 'c' were both used to represent the sound of 'k'
originally, the reason being that the Roman alphabet was derived from
Etruscan, and the Etruscans having no 'g' sound kept the Greek gamma but
pronounced it as a 'k'.
The Celts as a people almost certainly never had a word for themselves
as a whole: the Keltoi were probably a tribe with whom the Greeks came into
contact early or on, or it could even have been a descriptive adjective, or
a name used by another people (just like "Welsh" from Old English
"wealas"="foreigners,Romans").
Since 'Celt' when used in an English sentence is an English word, you
might expect it to follow the normal rules (such as they are) of English
pronunciation, but in reality there is a convention of pronouncing it
"Kelt" because the letter 'c' by itself always represents a 'k' sound in
modern Celtic spelling systems.
Now I just wish they'd replace that absurd namby-pamby travesty
'Boadicea' with the correct 'Boudicca'.
Bill501 <bil...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970709222...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> >Well having grown up in the Highlands of the West Coast of Scotland I
> >always heard it called Selt/Seltic by the locals. But it doesn't matter
> so
> >long as the people know what you are talking about.
> >Dave M.
>
Bill501
Kevin Daly said
>Now I just wish they'd replace that absurd namby-pamby travesty
>'Boadicea' with the correct 'Boudicca'.
Agreed! I wish I could find a copy of the out of print book about
Boudicca.
I just got a copy of PB Ellis's new book, "Celt and Greek" (ISBN
0-09-475580-9). He talks about their name a little in the 1st chapter
saying that most Greeks knew them as Galatae, interchangable with Keltoi--
interesting as this became their name in Asia Minor.
On another note-- where do you put the accent in the name of one of the
mos famous Celts of all: Vercingetorix, and is the 'c' hard or soft?
Bill
SashaLynne
In article <19970712010...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
bil...@aol.com (Bill501) writes:
>>'Boadicea' with the correct 'Boudicca'.
>
>Agreed! I wish I could find a copy of the out of print book about
>Boudicca.
>
>
I would be interested in finding it, too. What is it called? And how is
her name pronounced? I recently did a presentation on "Famous and
Infamous Scottish Women", admitted at the beginning that there were only a
small sampling presented and left her out just because I couldn't figure
out the pronounciation. I also didn't have a lot of information on her.
Thanks for the help!
SashaLynne
Barry Taylor
Ar 23:07:52 Sat, 12 Jul 1997, ysgrifenodd SashaLynne
<sasha...@aol.com>:
Boudicca Scottish???? Hardly. She lived in what is now south-eastern
England. She was Brythonic, not Scottish.
The name "Boudicca" is usually pronounced BOO-dik-a in English. In
Welsh we call her "Buddug", which means "victorious".
--
Barry Taylor
Visit the Gwenhwys pages at http://www.gwenhwys.demon.co.uk/
Bill501
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I would be interested in finding it, too. What is it called? And how is
her name pronounced? I recently did a presentation on "Famous and
Infamous Scottish Women", admitted at the beginning that there were only a
small sampling presented and left her out just because I couldn't figure
out the pronounciation. I also didn't have a lot of information on her.
Thanks for the help!
SashaLynne
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think this is the book I remember. This is from Barnes & Noble online:
Boudiccas Revolt -Op/74
Ian Andrews
Pub. Price: $4.95
ISBN#: 0521080312
Publisher: Cambridge University Press
Format: Paperback
Date Published: January 1973
But I think there is another published in the early '80s
I pronounce it BOO-deh-kah; others probably pronounce it differently
Bill
CANDOCOP
In article <19970709222...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
bil...@aol.com (Bill501) writes:
>The problem is that here in the US if you said Seltic, nearly everyone
>would think you meant a basketball team.
Well is that not where they get the name from??
Dave M.
CANDOCOP
In article <01bc8e32$fbdb6620$1c674cd1@kevdaly>, "Kevin Daly"
<kev...@ihug.co.nz> writes:
>>
>> It would be nice to know what the Celts called themselves. I suspect
that
>> 'Keltoi' was how the Greeks heard whatever sound the Celts made. But
then
>> do we know how the ancient Greeks said, "Keltoi".
>>
>> Bill
>>
Whell I will tell hew this about that then, it was the soft "c" that I was
always hearing as I whas growhing hup in thu west co-ost and Hi would be
doubting that chew can ghet more celtic than that. Hoh and there were not
too maheny of those Greeks haround h-at all h-at all.
Dave M.:)
CANDOCOP
In article <ifjed.491...@nmsua.nmsu.edu>, if...@nmsua.nmsu.edu (Dr.
Jack) writes:
>As that famous Scottish-American
>linguist President Andrew Jackson said, "It's a damn poor mind that can't
>think of more than one way to spell a word."
Dyslexics of the world unite. I love that quote and anyone who has seen me
spell will know why.
Dave M.
CANDOCOP
In article <19970713150...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
bil...@aol.com (Bill501) writes:
>I would be interested in finding it, too. What is it called? And how
is
>her name pronounced? I recently did a presentation on "Famous and
>Infamous Scottish Women", admitted at the beginning that there were only
a
>small sampling presented and left her out just because I couldn't figure
>out the pronounciation. I also didn't have a lot of information on her.
>
>
I believe it is Bow Da Cee AH. The British Airways cargo computer system
is named in her honor. But she was a Britton not a celt.
Dave M.
CANDOCOP
In article <01bc8cb8$b493fdc0$534698c2@default>, "Andrew Sneddon"
<and...@asneddon.source.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Unfortunately, most Scots with whom I've had contact with the past just
>> screamed and ranted about it and I'd developed sort of a negative
opinion
>of
>> them, despite the fact that I'm 3/4 Scots-Irish.
If one were to study the history, and I am no expert, most Scots ooops
well a lot of them then, originated in Ireland and came over to Scotland.
As for people getting bent about Seltic/Keltic, I heard Seltic growing up
in a Gaelic house so that is the right pronounciation for me, Seltic is ok
for other. Anyone getting bent over that needs to get a life. Sort of the
same as getting bent over being called Scotch. Some people are trying to
be friendly, and just don't know any better. I prefer they mispronounce
and extend the hand of frendship, than be terribly RATHER and be a prig.
As long as you don't call me late for dinner. I have been called a lot
worse than Scotch, and often by some of the people reading this.
Dave M.
CANDOCOP
In article <19970712230...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
sasha...@aol.com (SashaLynne) writes:
>
>I would be interested in finding it, too. What is it called? And how
is
>her name pronounced? I recently did a presentation on "Famous and
>Infamous Scottish Women", admitted at the beginning that there were only
a
>small sampling presented and left her out just because I couldn't figure
>out the pronounciation. I also didn't have a lot of information on her.
>
>Thanks for the help!
>SashaLynne
>
>
If one were to look into the later history (only because I can not comment
on the early but I am sure there are lots) of Scottish women, there is a
coracopia of stories. I don't know if all of them are written down, I
mostly heard of them at the fire as a little boy, but have since seen some
of the stories in print.
I shall not delve into a long siertation here, but when one considers the
life style in the Highlands the culture and procriation of our culture
survived solely because of the streingth of our ladies. (Woman did not
seem respectfull enough)
One story, a short one, was a soldiers wife doing a washing. The
Highlanders attacked sending the enemy in retreat. As they passed through
the encampment running for their lives the good lady thought they were
attacking and took action to defend the camp. The poor buggers were caught
between the lady and the advancing Highland throngs. Not only did she kill
several, and cause them to retreat in yet anotther direction, she finished
the washing on time too.
Dave M.
Cymro Oddicartref
It may not matter much but the Welsh for Celtic ("Celtaidd") is
pronounced with a hard "c".
Bill501
>I believe it is Bow Da Cee AH. The British Airways cargo computer system
>is named in her honor. But she was a Britton not a celt.
>Dave M.
She was a leader of the Celtic tribe the Eceni occupying most of what
became East Anglia. Unlee you mean the Computer
Bill
Dr. Jack
>If one were to study the history, and I am no expert, most Scots ooops
>well a lot of them then, originated in Ireland and came over to Scotland.
>As for people getting bent about Seltic/Keltic, I heard Seltic growing up
>in a Gaelic house so that is the right pronounciation for me, Seltic is ok
>Dave M.
Reminds me of an anecdote that one of these Kelt fanatics posted about
Richard Burton in response to my original comments about the silliness of
getting worked about selt versus kelt. That an American fan once approached
Burton and said, "We're both Selts." To which Burton is reported to have
replied, "No, I'm a kelt and you're a sunt." Now what sort of person
identifies with a drunken asshole like Burton being unnecessarily rude
to a fan?
Peter Cassidy
CANDOCOP (cand...@aol.com) wrote:
[about Boudicca]
: I believe it is Bow Da Cee AH. The British Airways cargo computer system
: is named in her honor. But she was a Britton not a celt.
Actually, she was queen of the Celtic Iceni tribe from what is now
East Anglia. Her name is pronounced 'boo-dee-kah' (Bou = 'bua', as in
'defeat'). Her daughters were captured and raped by the Romans and
in retribution she killed her Roman female captives by skewering
them lengthwise. Urk! Eventually, she was captured (not before
sacking Loudonium) and killed herself rather than be subject to
humiliation at the hands of her captors.
: Dave M.
Pete
--
| Peter Cassidy - Lombardstown, Cork, Ireland | Si/ na Samhna, |
| pcas...@iol.ie - http://www.iol.ie/~pcassidy | Tu/s na Bliain U/r. |
| ** No unsolicited commercial email ** | Si/ an Chrann Marbh, |
| My reply-to address has been mangled | Deireadh an Tuath. |
CANDOCOP
In article <5qhu7m$8sm$1...@nuacht.iol.ie>, pcas...@iol.ie (Peter Cassidy)
writes:
>
>Actually, she was queen of the Celtic Iceni tribe from what is now
>East Anglia. Her name is pronounced 'boo-dee-kah' (Bou = 'bua', as in
>'defeat'). Her daughters were captured and raped by the Romans and
>in retribution she killed her Roman female captives by skewering
>them lengthwise. Urk! Eventually, she was captured (not before
>sacking Loudonium) and killed herself rather than be subject to
>humiliation at the hands of her captors.
>
>: Dave M.
>
DO NOT GIVE ME CREDIT FOR THIS !!!!!! I' the cute one Pete is the clever
one.
Dave M.
Craig Cockburn
Ann an sgriobhainn <19970715011...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
sgriobh CANDOCOP <cand...@aol.com>
>In article <19970713150...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>bil...@aol.com (Bill501) writes:
>
>>I would be interested in finding it, too. What is it called? And how
>is
>>her name pronounced? I recently did a presentation on "Famous and
>>Infamous Scottish Women", admitted at the beginning that there were only
>a
>>small sampling presented and left her out just because I couldn't figure
>>out the pronounciation. I also didn't have a lot of information on her.
>>
>>
>
>is named in her honor. But she was a Britton not a celt.
This pronounciation is based on a mis-spelling by a medieval scribe.
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"), Du\n E/ideann, Alba. (Edinburgh, Scotland)
http://www.scot.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: cr...@scot.demon.co.uk
Sgri\obh thugam 'sa Gha\idhlig ma 'se do thoil e.
Hagbard Celine
On Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:33:11 GMT, if...@nmsua.nmsu.edu (Dr. Jack)
wrote:
>Reminds me of an anecdote that one of these Kelt fanatics posted about
>Richard Burton in response to my original comments about the silliness of
>getting worked about selt versus kelt. That an American fan once approached
>Burton and said, "We're both Selts." To which Burton is reported to have
>replied, "No, I'm a kelt and you're a sunt." Now what sort of person
>identifies with a drunken asshole like Burton being unnecessarily rude
>to a fan?
Burton wasn't being drunk; he was being Welsh.
Hail Eris,
---Hagbard Celine
Mike Dana
Ann an sgriobhainn <19970715011...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
sgriobh CANDOCOP <cand...@aol.com>
> In article <19970713150...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> bil...@aol.com (Bill501) writes:
>
> >I would be interested in finding it, too. What is it called? And how
> is
> >her name pronounced? I recently did a presentation on "Famous and
> >Infamous Scottish Women", admitted at the beginning that there were only
> a
> >small sampling presented and left her out just because I couldn't figure
> >out the pronounciation. I also didn't have a lot of information on her.
> >
> >
>
> I believe it is Bow Da Cee AH. The British Airways cargo computer system
> is named in her honor. But she was a Britton not a celt.
> Dave M.
The Britons *were* Celts; today we call them "Welsh".
--
Mike Dana Everett, Washington, U.S.A.
To reply, remove "nospam" from my return address.
"One road leads home and a thousand
roads lead into the wilderness." -- C.S.Lewis
CANDOCOP
In article <RakdnJAG...@scot.demon.co.uk>, Craig Cockburn
<cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>I believe it is Bow Da Cee AH. The British Airways cargo computer system
>>is named in her honor. But she was a Britton not a celt.
>>Dave M.
>
>This pronounciation is based on a mis-spelling by a medieval scribe.
>
>--
>Craig Cockburn ("coburn"), Du\n E/ideann, Alba. (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My God man does that mean there is reincarnation, was I once a medieval
scribe.
Dave M.
Barry Taylor
Yn erthygl <33dfb239...@news.pacbell.net>, ysgrifenodd Hagbard
Celine <B...@Hail.Eris>:
>>Reminds me of an anecdote that one of these Kelt fanatics posted about
>>Richard Burton in response to my original comments about the silliness of
>>getting worked about selt versus kelt. That an American fan once approached
>>Burton and said, "We're both Selts." To which Burton is reported to have
>>replied, "No, I'm a kelt and you're a sunt." Now what sort of person
>>identifies with a drunken asshole like Burton being unnecessarily rude
>>to a fan?
>
>Burton wasn't being drunk; he was being Welsh.
Now that is blatant flamebait! And anti-Welsh flamebait at that. Get a
life.
Dr. Jack
>>> It would be nice to know what the Celts called themselves. I suspect
>>> that 'Keltoi' was how the Greeks heard whatever sound the Celts made.
>>> But then do we know how the ancient Greeks said, "Keltoi".
Actually, it's pretty irrevelant since no one will ever know what the Celts
actually called themselves. And it's really no great loss. When Europeans
entered North America, there were literally hundreds of ethnic groups and
languages, most of which were exterminated before anyone knew what these
groups called themselves. And of the few remaining tribes, most are,
at best, known by English or French corruptions of their names. Yet they
continue to live their lives, know who they are, and even maintain some of
their culture. Reminds me of a novel from the 1920's about some Mexican
Indians who revolt against the Spanish-speaking landlords. The Indians'
leader, an educated Spaniard-speaker, tells them to seize the courthouse and
burn all the records because then "no one (among the Spanish-speakers) will
know who his father is." Whether or not my ancestors were called Celts or
Keltoi doesn't matter a tinker's damn to me (can one still say that?).
Bill501
Mike Dana says
>The Britons *were* Celts; today we call them "Welsh".
Isn't Nationalism wonderful. Ignorance is Bliss
Bill
Hagbard Celine
On 21 Jul 1997 15:58:33 GMT, cand...@aol.com (CANDOCOP) wrote:
>
>My God man does that mean there is reincarnation, was I once a medieval
>scribe.
>Dave M.
Yes. Your name was "Theodoric of York."
Hail Eris,
---Hagbard Celine
Bill501
Dr Jack (?) said,
>>>Actually, it's pretty irrevelant since no one will ever know what the
Celts
>>>actually called themselves......
I don't think it's irrelevant. I think it would be nice to know.
Bill
Hagbard Celine
On Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:31:42 GMT, if...@nmsua.nmsu.edu (Dr. Jack)
wrote:
> <snip>
> Whether or not my ancestors were called Celts or
>Keltoi doesn't matter a tinker's damn to me (can one still say that?).
Unless you're a Tinker. */;^}
Hail Eris,
---Hagbard
Dr. Jack
>>>>Actually, it's pretty irrevelant since no one will ever know what the
>>>>Celts actually called themselves......
>I don't think it's irrelevant. I think it would be nice to know.
If you would like to spend your life looking for a piece of relatively
trivial information that probably doesn't exist or isn't knowable (if a
piece of information doesn't exist, it should perhaps be called "non-
information"), because "it would be nice to know", then it's revelant to
you.
Dr. Jack
>>>Reminds me of an anecdote that one of these Kelt fanatics posted about
>>>Richard Burton in response to my original comments about the silliness of
>>>getting worked about selt versus kelt. That an American fan once approached
>>>Burton and said, "We're both Selts." To which Burton is reported to have
>>>replied, "No, I'm a kelt and you're a sunt." Now what sort of person
>>>identifies with a drunken asshole like Burton being unnecessarily rude
>>
>>Burton wasn't being drunk; he was being Welsh.
>Now that is blatant flamebait! And anti-Welsh flamebait at that. Get a
>life.
And you notice that I didn't say Burton was a drunken Welsh asshole, he was
just a drunken asshole, plain and simple. Except, of course, since he was
rich and famous, he could get away with it and no one expects any better
of him. Most of us are drunken assholes too sometimes. But we're expected
to act better. When someone tries to compliment me, even if they misspeak,
I say, Thank you. I don't correct them.
Barry Taylor
Yn erthygl <ifjed.507...@nmsua.nmsu.edu>, ysgrifenodd "Dr. Jack"
<if...@nmsua.nmsu.edu>:
>>>>Reminds me of an anecdote that one of these Kelt fanatics posted about
>>>>Richard Burton in response to my original comments about the silliness of
>>>>getting worked about selt versus kelt. That an American fan once approached
>>>>Burton and said, "We're both Selts." To which Burton is reported to have
>>>>replied, "No, I'm a kelt and you're a sunt." Now what sort of person
>>>>identifies with a drunken asshole like Burton being unnecessarily rude
>>>>to a fan? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>Burton wasn't being drunk; he was being Welsh.
>
>>Now that is blatant flamebait! And anti-Welsh flamebait at that. Get a
>>life.
>
>And you notice that I didn't say Burton was a drunken Welsh asshole, he was
>just a drunken asshole, plain and simple. Except, of course, since he was
>rich and famous, he could get away with it and no one expects any better
>of him. Most of us are drunken assholes too sometimes. But we're expected
>to act better. When someone tries to compliment me, even if they misspeak,
>I say, Thank you. I don't correct them.
I wasn't reacting to the original message, but to the response (quoted
above) which says "Burton wasn't being drunk; he was being Welsh."
perhaps you will understand my response to that.
Lou Coles
>>>> It would be nice to know what the Celts called themselves. I suspect
>>>> that 'Keltoi' was how the Greeks heard whatever sound the Celts made.
>>>> But then do we know how the ancient Greeks said, "Keltoi".
>
>Actually, it's pretty irrevelant since no one will ever know what the Celts
>actually called themselves. And it's really no great loss. When Europeans
>entered North America, there were literally hundreds of ethnic groups and
>languages, most of which were exterminated before anyone knew what these
>groups called themselves. And of the few remaining tribes, most are,
>at best, known by English or French corruptions of their names. Yet they
>continue to live their lives, know who they are, and even maintain some of
>their culture. Reminds me of a novel from the 1920's about some Mexican
>Indians who revolt against the Spanish-speaking landlords. The Indians'
>leader, an educated Spaniard-speaker, tells them to seize the courthouse and
>burn all the records because then "no one (among the Spanish-speakers) will
>know who his father is." Whether or not my ancestors were called Celts or
>Keltoi doesn't matter a tinker's damn to me (can one still say that?).
Actually we know many of the tribal names and languages here in North
America. "Few" remaining tribes within 50 miles of where I sit, all
know thier tribal names, not the corrupted ones, and some speak
thier language.