Irish Porn?
Dave D. Cawley
I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
is it available outside of Ireland?
-dc
--
Dave D. Cawley bt...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Some people never see the light
Till it shines thru bullet holes. -Bruce Cockburn
Christopher Morton
>
>
> I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
> features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
> is it available outside of Ireland?
I see you've missed Britanny O'Connell and Misty Regan....
--
===================================================================
Read my lips, no new Haitians - Bill "Jethro" Clinton
===================================================================
Miller, Jimmy A.
>As quoted from <2co0u4$h...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> by bt...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave D. Cawley):
>
>>
>>
>> I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
>> features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
>> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
>> is it available outside of Ireland?
>
>I see you've missed Britanny O'Connell and Misty Regan....
While they may look Irish (reddish hair and fair skin), plus have
Irish-sounding names, I don't think either actually *is* Irish enough
to please this fellow!
Jammer Jim Miller -- who would love to date a girl with an Irish accent.
--
Texas A&M University '89 & '91 | You don't have to be a Marine to be Semper Fi.
"Beauty...survives." | Perception is 9/10ths of reality
EMAIL TO: hmis...@admin.uh.edu
Christopher Morton
> In article <CGuw1...@NCoast.ORG>, cm...@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton) writes...
> >As quoted from <2co0u4$h...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> by bt...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave D. Cawley):
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
> >> features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
> >> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
> >> is it available outside of Ireland?
> >
> >I see you've missed Britanny O'Connell and Misty Regan....
>
> While they may look Irish (reddish hair and fair skin), plus have
> Irish-sounding names, I don't think either actually *is* Irish enough
> to please this fellow!
>
Some people just can't be pleased. I like them if for no OTHER reason than
they aren't blonde! :)
any...@cyberden.sf.ca.us
>
>
> I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
> features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
> is it available outside of Ireland?
>
Heeheeheeehee! :)
yeah, white is ni<e
tan is just... TOO '80s!! :)
jk.. but really tho, i @an understand the attraktion to Irish females :)
__________________________________________________________________________
| / |\
| H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ any...@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]
The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527
gerry harbison
> I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
>features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
>is it available outside of Ireland?
Actually, Ireland is a highly repressed society and there is
little enough foreign porn, let alone home grown stuff. Many of us
as teenagers struggled through 'Ulysses' with a flashlight under the covers
looking for the 'dirty bits'. That's why us Irish is so damn
litterut. If youse yanks had had to comb through Shakespeare for smut instead
of having playboy on the newsstands, maybe you'd be litterut too!
(Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
Gerry Harbison/Nebraska/ Corn, not porn!
gary cooper
>(Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
just a teeny bit - but that don't mean I ain't writin' down names!
btw - you might want to edit the newsgroups you follow up to - I doubt
that ANY of the folks in alt.sex.* groups you asked are offended in
the slightest - prolly just lookin' forward to seein' some red-headed
muff!)
--
gary cooper (not the dead one) coo...@digex.com
DoD 923 666th Fighter Squadron; Internet Daemons
#1225
I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
an1...@anon.penet.fi
>> I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
>>features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
>> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
>>is it available outside of Ireland?
>
>Actually, Ireland is a highly repressed society and there is
>little enough foreign porn, let alone home grown stuff.
Yep. Don't forget that contraception isn't even legal in Ireland,
let alone abortion or graphic pornography. Unlike Spain, Portugal, Italy, and
France, Catholic-populated countries that have become secular states that
do not enshrine Catholic morality in their laws, Ireland has maintained
a doctrinaire Catholicism in its laws. Until a few years ago, it used to
be illegal even to distribute informatiom concerning abortion and its
availability in other countries. The people of Ireland may no longer live
under rules dictated from London, but they do live under rules dictated by
Rome. This is something that most of the people who attacked Sinead O'Connor
for ripping up a picture of the Pope on SNL fail to realize-- that the
Catholic Church is, in many ways, just as insidious and oppressive a force
in Ireland today as British rule was a century ago. This time, however,
the oppression is not political but private. It's not a question of being
ruled by foriegners or being part of a country that you don't want to belong
to; it's about what you can do with your body in the privacy of your own home.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to he...@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.
Timothy Murphy
> Don't forget that contraception isn't even legal in Ireland,
This is nonsense, like the rest of your (anonymous) posting.
--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: t...@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
Andy - Patrizio
}
>harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
>No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
>it a little offensive, and if so why?
>L.
It's called political correctness.
--
Andy Patrizio | Politicians are like diapers. Both should be changed
Stamford, CT | regularly because they get full of crap and start
a...@shell.portal.com | to stink.
Miller, Jimmy A.
>le...@nbi.com (Leigh Melton) writes:
>}
>>harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>
>>> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
>
>>No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
>>it a little offensive, and if so why?
>
At the risk of starting a stupid debate, could someone decipher all this
for me? Why would a desire to see Irish women in pornos be considered
any more offensive than people desiring to see big/small boobs/blondes/red-
heads/black/indian/hispanic etc. etc.?
Jammer Jim Miller -- who would love to hear a "fuck me" in a female Irish
accent...or any accent, for that matter....
James Alexander Chokey
>an1...@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>> Don't forget that contraception isn't even legal in Ireland,
>
>This is nonsense, like the rest of your (anonymous) posting.
In article <2crnk1$r...@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> t...@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) writes:
>an1...@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>> Don't forget that contraception isn't even legal in Ireland,
>
>This is nonsense, like the rest of your (anonymous) posting.
>
Actually, not all of it was nonsense. Abortion certainly isn't
anywhere nearly as easy to obtain in Ireland as it is in say, France or
Spain. The last time I heard-- which was shortly after the recent
referendum on abortion-- was that Irish women who wish to obtain
abortions are allowed to travel abroad to do it. I assume that they
can get them in Ireland in cases of medical emergency. (Someone please
correct me if I'm wrong.)
And just out of curiosity-- what is the exact status/availability
of different contraceptive devices/techniques in Ireland. I've heard that
it isn't quite as easy to obtain as it is in the U.S. or the UK-- although
I've never heard that it was banned entirely like the earlier poster said.
Can you just walk into any drugstore or supermarket and pick up a package of
condoms,contraceptive sponges, etc? How easy is it to get a prescription for
birth control pills? What about "morning-after" pills?
-- Jim C.
==========================================================================
| James A. Chokey jch...@leland.stanford.edu |
| |
| "I liked him personally. It's just that I couldn't make sense of |
| him. It's as if he was was from another species, or something." |
| -- Noam Chomsky, describing Michel Foucault. |
==========================================================================
Anthony Ragan
le...@nbi.com (Leigh Melton) writes:
>harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>
>> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
>
>No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
>it a little offensive, and if so why?
>
I'm more than half-Irish and I don't find the question offensive
at all. But, at the same time, I don't consider porn *per se*
offensive. For m'self, I'd love to hear some genuine coleens
talking dirty. :>
--Anthony
ecz...@mvs.oac.ucla edu --OR-- Iris...@aol.com
>L.
Godfrey Nolan
> Actually, not all of it was nonsense. Abortion certainly isn't
>anywhere nearly as easy to obtain in Ireland as it is in say, France or
>Spain. The last time I heard-- which was shortly after the recent
>referendum on abortion-- was that Irish women who wish to obtain
>abortions are allowed to travel abroad to do it. I assume that they
>can get them in Ireland in cases of medical emergency. (Someone please
>correct me if I'm wrong.)
No there is no abortion in Ireland, the Catholic church states that
if it is a choice between the mother and the child then the child should
be saved. This is not actively persued by the hospitals, but as they
generally have large numbers of clergy, etc on their boards who knows what
happens.
BTW I am almost certain there are no abortions in Northern Ireland either.
>
> And just out of curiosity-- what is the exact status/availability
>of different contraceptive devices/techniques in Ireland. I've heard that
>it isn't quite as easy to obtain as it is in the U.S. or the UK-- although
>I've never heard that it was banned entirely like the earlier poster said.
>Can you just walk into any drugstore or supermarket and pick up a package of
>condoms,contraceptive sponges, etc? How easy is it to get a prescription for
>birth control pills? What about "morning-after" pills?
Birth control pills were always available in Ireland, but you got
them for regulating periods, or at least thats what you said. The morning
after pill has been available for years from the Well-woman clinics
(similar to Planned Parenthood). Since the last coalition its nice to see
there has been a thawing in the dogma. Condom machines are in pubs, etc.
and there are no stupid restrictions, such as you have to be over sixteen.
I still chuckle when I think of Haughey's comment on an Irish solution
to an Irish problem, now what solution would that be Charlie.
BTW, nice to see CJ Boyd has found how anonymous posting works.
The homosexual laws have also been changed, its now legal, if you
are 16 or over, which compares well to Britains 21 or over.
With any luck Divorce will be next.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Godfrey Nolan G.N...@bath.ac.uk
'Kenneth, whats the frequency ?'
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Derek Gallagher
>Actually, Ireland is a highly repressed society and there is
>little enough foreign porn.
As far as I can remember (8 years ago), there was ample supplies of porn
in most video libraries. All my local video libraries (Dublin) had an
"Adult" section of some description. Has this changed ....?
>Writes: From: an1...@anon.penet.fi
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you must post anonymously, then at least add a signature.
I hate replying to nobodies.
> Yep. Don't forget that contraception isn't even legal in Ireland,
The last time I was there I didn't get arrested for buying a pack of rubbers.
Get your facts straight.
>It's not a question of being
>ruled by foriegners or being part of a country that you don't want to belong
>to; it's about what you can do with your body in the privacy of your own home.
What are you on about, Thats total crap, Any Irish person can do
anything they want to their own body in the privacy of their own home.
--
===================================================================
Derek Gallagher: O.S.I Technology
Mark Riordan
> And just out of curiosity-- what is the exact status/availability
>of different contraceptive devices/techniques in Ireland. I've heard that
>it isn't quite as easy to obtain as it is in the U.S. or the UK-- although
>I've never heard that it was banned entirely like the earlier poster said.
>Can you just walk into any drugstore or supermarket and pick up a package of
>condoms,contraceptive sponges, etc? How easy is it to get a prescription for
>birth control pills? What about "morning-after" pills?
To buy condoms you either go to a pub vending machine or to a pharmacy
where they would generally be available on the shelves openly. They
may be less openly available in small towns but generally pharmacists
view then as a good money spinner and are quite happy to sell them.
The pill is only available on prescription - presumably so that health
checks can be carried out on the woman - I don't know the position
outside of Dublin on this but here there is no great problem other than
the annoyance of having to pay for them [not the case in Britain].
Other more exotic forms of contraception I don't know about.
A point regarding some conservative legislation in Ireland is that
we Irish do not have the same respect for authority as is the case
in other countries. Therefore just because there are laws on the
statute books does not mean it is used.
MARK
--
| rior...@cs.tcd.ie Mark Riordan, Computer Science Dept., |
| Mark.R...@cs.tcd.ie Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. |
| Tel: +353-(0)1-702 1335 Fax: +353-(0)1-677 2204 |
Sean Matthews
> bt...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave D. Cawley) writes:
>
>
>
> > I love Irish women and there is a definate lack of Irish
> >features in porn-too much California and too little Dublin.
> > So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
> >is it available outside of Ireland?
>
>
> Gerry Harbison/Nebraska/ Corn, not porn!
No, but very amused. Since it is often observed that the Irish have drink
instead of sex, an Irish porn movie would be a collection of Guinness
advertisments and hard core would probably be an advertisment for Jamesons.
Since this question also appeared on a group dedicated to discussing *real* hard
core pornography, it is also worth pointing out that in Ireland most people are
not even close to aware that the sorts of things that happen in such movies are
even imaginable, never mind physically possible, and as for filming them...
Finding genuine Colleens to star would be a large problem, and anyway, anyone
trying to make anything stronger than Playboy's girls of Ballyporeen would end up
in gaol so fast, and for so long, that it would take their breath away.
This doesn't meant that the Irish aren't as fascinated with sex as everyone else.
In particular, the hierarchy of the Irish catholic church has the sort of
prurient obsession with the subject that is usually associated with adolescent
boys in the grip of hormone overload. But that's different.
See `The Great Hunger,' by Patrick Kavanagh, for more details.
Sean
--
Sean Matthews <se...@mpi-sb.mpg.de>
Work: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Informatik, phone: +49 681 302 5363
Im Stadtwald, D-66123 Saarbruecken, Germany fax: +49 681 302 5401
Home: Graf-Johann Str. 20, Saarbruecken phone: <none currently>
res...@mas1-pc13.mas.vcu.edu
> So this brings me to teh question...Is there Irish porn and
Pornographic magazines, even so-called `soft' porn mags, are illegal in Ireland.
You will not find them for sale in any book shops.
I have seen `adult' videos for rent in video shops but I do not know how
explicit they are. I don't know what the law says about this, but it always
seemed odd that magazines were banned but the videos were OK.
A couple of years ago, thanks to `promotion' on the Gay Byrne show, the
most talked about and watched video in all of Ireland was a British-made
sex instruction video called "The Lovers Guide". This one I saw, and it was
*very* explicit (though I thought well-done and even helpful). It was for sale
all over Ireland (at Easons) plus for rent in most video shops.
"The Lovers Guide" presented a very real dilemma for many Irish people; they
desparately wanted to see it, but there's no way they could be seen walking
into a video shop and renting it! My local video shop owner told me that an
Irish solution to this Irish problem was quickly arrived at, however. He said
that often someone would rent the video but it wouldn't come back for *weeks*.
What was happening, of course, was that it was making the rounds of one or
two estates before coming back.
gerry harbison
>In article <931122.172900.3...@nbi.com>,
>le...@nbi.com (Leigh Melton) writes:
>>harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>>
>>> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
>>
>>No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
>>it a little offensive, and if so why?
>>
> I'm more than half-Irish and I don't find the question offensive
>at all.
What you presumably mean by 'more than half Irish' is that your
ancestry is more than half Irish. Sorry, it doesn't count. If you were
raised in America, you're American. What's wrong with that?
Being Irish is not a hereditary characteristic.
>But, at the same time, I don't consider porn *per se*
>offensive. For m'self, I'd love to hear some genuine coleens
>talking dirty. :>
'Coleen' is a word I have never heard in the mouth of an Irish person
speaking English, except in sarcasm. It's a corruption of the Gaelic
word for 'girl' (caili/n).
I don't consider 'porn' per se offensive either (well, not all of it).
What I dislike is the exploitative porno-tourist mentality expressed
in this thread. I can't fathom the crassness of a mind that would
somehow associate naked pictures of red-haired women with Irish
culture, and post such drivel to a newsgroup discussing same. Irish
people are not objects for Americans to goggle at.
If you want to fantasize that some naked female in a photograph is Irish,
go ahead. No-one is going to stop you, least of all me. Just don't inflict your
fantasies on others.
If you want to hear an Irish woman 'talking dirty', I suggest find one, and
express some of these sentiments to them. You may get more than you bargained
for!
>--Anthony
> ecz...@mvs.oac.ucla edu --OR-- Iris...@aol.com
>>L.
Gerry Harbison/UNL/here's some American Culture for ya:
Nebraska 14 UCLA 13. And we had a bad day!
Carey Cox
>No, but very amused. Since it is often observed that the Irish have drink
>instead of sex, an Irish porn movie would be a collection of Guinness
>advertisments and hard core would probably be an advertisment for Jamesons.
I must inform you that not all Irish people are drunkards and prefer
drinking to sex. This whole Irish porn topic is pretty sick, but I just
had to correct your thinking.
Carey Cox
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Carey M. Cox "An rud is annamh is iontach" ~
~ Mississippi College "The rarest thing is the most wonderful" ~
~ email: cc...@csc.mc.edu ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gerry harbison
>le...@nbi.com (Leigh Melton) writes:
>}
>>harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>>> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
>>No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
>>it a little offensive, and if so why?
>>L.
>It's called political correctness.
Bollocks. This really pisses me off. I've spent years fighting political
correctness in American universities, and the last thing I need is
some wet-behind-the-ears twit chanting it mindlessly back at me.
If you use the term 'PC' randomly to criticise anything you
don't like, it'll be just another slogan, and people will turn off as
soon as they hear it. Objecting to someone posting an enquiry
about the availability
of 'Irish Porn' in a newsgroup dedicated to celtic culture is not
'political correctness'. It's an objection to something which is
inappropriate, ignorant and in poor taste. I suggest you learn the
difference.
Niall O' Byrne
>
>No there is no abortion in Ireland,
Since the "X" Case abortion is theoretically available to any woman who
presents herself to a doctor at any stage between conception and birth
and claims to be suicidal. So far the no legislation has been written
to support this and the Irish Medical Council are unwilling to support
abortion in this or any other situation.
> the Catholic church states that
>if it is a choice between the mother and the child then the child should
>be saved. This is not actively persued by the hospitals, but as they
>generally have large numbers of clergy, etc on their boards who knows what
>happens.
I see we still need to get our facts straight on this matter. The Catholic
Church _does_not_ state that the child should be saved in preference to the
mother. Both are considered to have the same right to life becasue they are
both human beings.
What the Catholic Church soes say is that everything should be done to save
the lives of both mother and child. However, if the mother requires a medical
procedure where the result may indirectly cause the death of the child then
the medical procedure is acceptable.
What is not acceptable is a medical prodecure with the intention of the
destruction of the child.
In the Western World Ireland has _the_ lowest maternal death rate, and this
despite the unavailablity of direct abortion.
>BTW I am almost certain there are no abortions in Northern Ireland either.
This again is untrue. While it is not nearly as available as it
is in England it is available to women who have been diagnosed as carrying
a "defective" child e.g. Down's Syndrome, Spina Bifida etc.
Now that these points have been clarified I think this discussion would best
be continued either through email or through the newsgroups which specifically
handle the abortion issue.
>The homosexual laws have also been changed, its now legal, if you
>are 16 or over, which compares well to Britains 21 or over.
Explain please. I fail to see the logic here.
This appears to suit the paedophiles and make no allowance for immaturity
be it emotional, mental or physical.
>With any luck Divorce will be next.
>
Will Divorce solve the problem of marital breakdown ?
>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Godfrey Nolan G.N...@bath.ac.uk
> 'Kenneth, whats the frequency ?'
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
--
#include<std.disclaimer>
Niall O Byrne, Motorola B.V./LMPS Dublin, IRELAND
Internet: nia...@comm.mot.com
"I wish I had said that" --- Oscar Wilde
gerry harbison
>>
>>Actually, Ireland is a highly repressed society and there is
>>little enough foreign porn, let alone home grown stuff.
(My fault here: I didn't state explicitly I was being ironic. How
stupid of me.)
> Yep. Don't forget that contraception isn't even legal in Ireland,
>let alone abortion or graphic pornography. Unlike Spain, Portugal, Italy, and
>France, Catholic-populated countries that have become secular states that
>do not enshrine Catholic morality in their laws, Ireland has maintained
>a doctrinaire Catholicism in its laws. Until a few years ago, it used to
>be illegal even to distribute informatiom concerning abortion and its
>availability in other countries. The people of Ireland may no longer live
>under rules dictated from London, but they do live under rules dictated by
>Rome. This is something that most of the people who attacked Sinead O'Connor
>for ripping up a picture of the Pope on SNL fail to realize-- that the
>Catholic Church is, in many ways, just as insidious and oppressive a force
>in Ireland today as British rule was a century ago. This time, however,
>the oppression is not political but private. It's not a question of being
>ruled by foriegners or being part of a country that you don't want to belong
>to; it's about what you can do with your body in the privacy of your own home.
This is factually inaccurate, but more than that, it represents the
worst kind of chauvinism; trying to force the values of one kind of
society (America) onto another (Ireland). Contraception is legal in
Ireland: it was legal 20 years ago, when I went down to the Student
Union office in Trinity, plonked down my 'donation' and picked up some
condoms. The statement about Ireland being ruled from Rome is
simply not true. The fact that abortion is illegal in Ireland is an
expression of the values of the vast majority of its people; the fact
that they happen to agree with the Catholic Church is
irrelvevant; the church also condemns contraception and homosexuality,
but both are legal in Ireland.
I suggest you check state laws in the
US: in most states, not only homosexuality, but also adultery, and
many consensual sex acts between persons of the opposite sex are proscribed.
There was a couple charged with adultery in Connecticut only a couple
of years ago.
Andrew Greeley published an article in Newsday a couple of years ago
(i wish I'd kept it) that quoted a survey of how tolerant different
countries are. Ireland, in the attitudes of its people was ranked more
tolerant than almost every country in Europe (and was miles ahead of
the US).
There are many aspects of American society I find admirable. There are
others that work in the US but wouldn't work elsewhere. There are
still others that are a disaster in the US. Before applying an
American perspective of 'freedom' to another society I suggest you
think about this.
cjb...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
Well no legal abortion in southern ireland.
the Catholic church states that
> if it is a choice between the mother and the child then the child should
> be saved. This is not actively persued by the hospitals, but as they
> generally have large numbers of clergy, etc on their boards who knows what
> happens.
> BTW I am almost certain there are no abortions in Northern Ireland either.
I believe they are allowed under medical reasons ( but i think this definition
reaches quite far.
>>
Condom machines are in pubs, etc.
> and there are no stupid restrictions, such as you have to be over sixteen.
What about the age limit to get into the pubs. I wonder how this has
affected condom sales at Queen's Belfast on open days.
> I still chuckle when I think of Haughey's comment on an Irish solution
> to an Irish problem, now what solution would that be Charlie.
>
> BTW, nice to see CJ Boyd has found how anonymous posting works.
>
Wrong - good to see you're still making false assumptions.
> The homosexual laws have also been changed, its now legal, if you
> are 16 or over, which compares well to Britains 21 or over.
> With any luck Divorce will be next.
>
Yeah you can be really open about being Gay in ireland can't you.
> --
Is there any truth in the statemant that the catholic church stated that
it was okay to use condoms provided a pin-hole was placed in tip.
Their reasoning being you could still conceive but it would stop STD's
Good reasoning - does Rome still believe that the earth is the center of the
universive ;-).
CJ
Standard Disclaimer.
Miller, Jimmy A.
>
>I don't consider 'porn' per se offensive either (well, not all of it).
>What I dislike is the exploitative porno-tourist mentality expressed
>in this thread. I can't fathom the crassness of a mind that would
>somehow associate naked pictures of red-haired women with Irish
>culture, and post such drivel to a newsgroup discussing same. Irish
>people are not objects for Americans to goggle at.
Ahem. You may wish to consider looking at the newsgroup line. While I
honestly can't fathom why soc.culture.celtic was included in the initial
posting, some of these followups are coming from groups where people have
a better grip on the difference between sexual fantasy and culture assass-
ination.
No one has suggested that the Irish people are objects for Americans to
goggle at; they have stated that they find certain characteristics of Irish
people and women in particular, sexually appealing. If you cannot handle
that, then I suggest you set your followup-to lines accordingly, and climb
off your high horse of self-righteous indignation.
>If you want to hear an Irish woman 'talking dirty', I suggest find one, and
>express some of these sentiments to them. You may get more than you bargained
>for!
That *is* the general idea.
Jammer Jim Miller -- "exploitive porno-tourist mentality" indeed.
Michael Helm
>ancestry is more than half Irish. Sorry, it doesn't count. If you were
>raised in America, you're American. What's wrong with that?
>Being Irish is not a hereditary characteristic.
It is one of the strange paradoxes of Irish culture that many Irish,
including many Irish-born now resident in the United States, think
that Irish culture is something that people had to leave on the dock
at Cork, or was confiscated at customs & immigration on Ellis Island
or JFK airport. Curiously tho, the opposite is never true -- once
an American, always a Yank, even if you live 30 years in Ballygobackwards.
--
Steve Towle
>ECZ...@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Anthony Ragan) writes:
>
>What you presumably mean by 'more than half Irish' is that your
>ancestry is more than half Irish. Sorry, it doesn't count. If you were
>raised in America, you're American. What's wrong with that?
>Being Irish is not a hereditary characteristic.
>
>What I dislike is the exploitative porno-tourist mentality expressed
>in this thread. I can't fathom the crassness of a mind that would
>somehow associate naked pictures of red-haired women with Irish
>culture, and post such drivel to a newsgroup discussing same. Irish
>people are not objects for Americans to goggle at.
>
should happen to be in movies. I thought the whole point of porn
movies was to goggle at the actors and actresses. (Isn't the right to
goggle protected in the [American] constitution somewhere?).
Steve
--
"God said to Abraham, 'Kill me a son!'
Abe said, 'Man, you must be puttin' me on...'"
Bob Dylan
James Alexander Chokey
>Objecting to someone posting an enquiry about the availability
>of 'Irish Porn' in a newsgroup dedicated to celtic culture is not
>'political correctness'. It's an objection to something which is
>inappropriate, ignorant and in poor taste. I suggest you learn the
>difference.
Would you care to explain the difference? Asking about "Irish
Porn" (whatever is meant by the term) in a newsgroup dedicated to the
discussion of Irish/Scottish/Welsh/etc. culture and poltics is hardly
inappropriate. The poster probably thought folks here might be more knowledge-
able on the availabity of pornography in Ireland than those over in alt.
sex.movies. This isn't soc.culture.celtic.except.things.dealing.with.sex.
Was he "ignorant" for posting here. Well, perhaps in the literal sense of
"not knowing"-- since the fellow was obviously interest in finding out
something that he did not know. (Or perhaps for he was ignorant in assuming
that those who would be offended by the discussion of questions pertaining to
pornography in Ireland would see the big capitalized "Porn" in the subject
line and simply skip over it-- which, IMHO, is more "naive" than "ignorant.")
As for it being "in poor taste"-- isn't that really a matter of opinion?
I'm sure a lot of the regular readers of s.c.c. find the frequent eruptions
of Catholic/Protestant/Irish/English/American/Fill-in-the-blank-bashing and
the personal flames that occur here so frequently are in much poorer taste
than a simple inquiry about pornography in Ireland.
-- Jim C.
==========================================================================
| James A. Chokey jch...@leland.stanford.edu |
| |
| "I liked him personally. It's just that I couldn't make sense of |
| him. It's as if he was from another species, or something." |
Tigger
> I have seen `adult' videos for rent in video shops but I do not know how
> explicit they are. I don't know what the law says about this, but it always
> seemed odd that magazines were banned but the videos were OK.
There was a loophole in the law for a while. Still is, actually. But
they are beginning to outlaw hardcore porn here. However, its not hard to
find. A lot easier in fact, than in England, where the law is strictly
enforced.
-O'tigger
----
"What *do* tiggers do best? I forgot."
Fiona Hyland
>From: harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison)
>Subject: Re: Irish Porn?
>Date: 22 Nov 1993 17:27:57 GMT
I'm a woman from Ireland and I *do* find this thread somewhat offensive.
Thank God that in Ireland we have good enough social services and family
support structures that women don't feel they have to let themselves be
exploited in this way. In my experience, as well, Irish men in general
have more respect for women than American men do; most Irish men of my
aquaintence have plenty of women friends, enjoy socialising with them, like
them as people (of course, the attraction is often there as well) in a way
that an astonishing number of American men seem to lack. I think that male/
female relations among Irish people are generally a lot healthier than among
Americans.
Fiona
Fiona Hyland
>From: harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison)
>Subject: Re: Irish Porn?
>>>L.
Yes- it strikes me that the way opponents of 'Political Correctness' here in
the US use the term is the same way that people from other countries use the
term 'politeness'. I mean, what is so terrible about calling ethnic or
other groups of people what they choose to be called? Or refraining from
using nasty racist or sexist or whatever terms? In most countries, that is
called 'courtesy'; here it is 'Political Correctness' and considered a
terrible violation of 'rights'.
Fiona
DAWN...@nuacvm.acns.nwu.edu
fc...@cornell.edu (Fiona Hyland) writes:
>
>>Subject: Re: Irish Porn?
>>Date: 22 Nov 1993 17:27:57 GMT
>
> In my experience, as well, Irish men in general
>have more respect for women than American men do; most Irish men of my
>aquaintence have plenty of women friends, enjoy socialising with them, like
>them as people (of course, the attraction is often there as well) in a way
>that an astonishing number of American men seem to lack. I think that male/
>female relations among Irish people are generally a lot healthier than among
>Americans.
> Fiona
Just kidding. Honest. No bricks, please.
If that's the case, that _what_ am I doing here?
D.
Dawn Elaine Williams
Acting Head, Bibliographic Record Services Dept.
Northwestern University Library
e-mail: d-wil...@nwu.edu
mailbox: dawn...@nuacvm.acns.nwu.edu
tel: 708-491-7584
gerry harbison
[alt groups removed from newsgroup line]
>In article <2ctf8j$3...@crcnis1.unl.edu> harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>>Objecting to someone posting an enquiry about the availability
>>of 'Irish Porn' in a newsgroup dedicated to celtic culture is not
>>'political correctness'. It's an objection to something which is
>>inappropriate, ignorant and in poor taste. I suggest you learn the
>>difference.
> Would you care to explain the difference? Asking about "Irish
>Porn" (whatever is meant by the term) in a newsgroup dedicated to the
>discussion of Irish/Scottish/Welsh/etc. culture and poltics is hardly
>inappropriate. The poster probably thought folks here might be more knowledge-
>able on the availabity of pornography in Ireland than those over in alt.
>sex.movies.
Check the original posting. He wasn't asking about the availability
of pornography in Ireland. He was asking about the availability, to
him, of pornography featuring Irish women, or produced in Ireland. I don't
think he really cared whether one could buy Playboy in Eason's.
>This isn't soc.culture.celtic.except.things.dealing.with.sex.
Firstly, sex and porn are quite separate issues. There are
significant sexual elements in Irish culture, not just in modern
stuff, but also in pre-17th century literature. That would have been
a legitimate subject of enquiry. There is however, to
my knowledge, no identifiably Irish pornography, at least nothing that
would be considered porn by contemporary US standards.
>Was he "ignorant" for posting here. Well, perhaps in the literal sense of
>"not knowing"-- since the fellow was obviously interest in finding out
>something that he did not know.
Yeah, right. Somehow I don't think he was motivated by a thirst for
knowledge. (or do you read Playboy for the articles?)
>(Or perhaps for he was ignorant in assuming
>that those who would be offended by the discussion of questions pertaining to
>pornography in Ireland would see the big capitalized "Porn" in the subject
>line and simply skip over it-- which, IMHO, is more "naive" than "ignorant.")
No, I was (and I think others were) offended by the implicit cultural
imperialism (sorry, it's a cliche, but I can't think of a better term)
in his notion that he could barge into a celtic newsgroup, feed his
penchant for looking at pictures of naked Irish women, and depart.
It's not a uniquely American attitude (it brings to mind Japanese
businessmen patronizing child-prostitutes in Thailand) but it's a
common one. It's a similar attitude that makes some American tourists
(although certainly not all) rather unpopular in ireland and in other
countries.
IMO, to acquire any understanding of an alien culture, one must
start by trying to look at the culture from within rather than
without. "Hey, got any porno over there in Ireland" is not
a good place to start, because in an Irish context it's not even a
particularly meaningful question. The history of sex-related
literature in
Ireland is complicated, as others have intimated, and as I tried to
suggest in ironic fashion in my first posting on this thread.
>As for it being "in poor taste"-- isn't that really a matter of opinion?
Of course. What isn't?
>I'm sure a lot of the regular readers of s.c.c. find the frequent eruptions
>of Catholic/Protestant/Irish/English/American/Fill-in-the-blank-bashing and
>the personal flames that occur here so frequently are in much poorer taste
>than a simple inquiry about pornography in Ireland.
Firstly, it's been my observation that Americans often tend to mistake
heated argument for insult. Another cultural difference!
I don't think there's a lot of X-bashing on this newsgroup. Flames
yes.
Secondly, it wasn't a simple naive enquiry. Nor, by the way,
were the hubba-hubba followups.
> -- Jim C.
>
>
>==========================================================================
>| James A. Chokey jch...@leland.stanford.edu |
>| |
>| "I liked him personally. It's just that I couldn't make sense of |
>| him. It's as if he was from another species, or something." |
>| -- Noam Chomsky, describing Michel Foucault. |
>==========================================================================
Gerry Harbison/funny, I think Chomsky would be on *my* side in this
one.
Charles Edward Klimicek
ck
gary cooper
Fiona,
You are severly mistaken about American men - most (99%) truly do love women
in the way that women deserve.
You should visit us sometime.
Don't worry about accomadations, I have a double bed.
with satin sheets
are you a redhead?
:>
--
gary cooper (not the dead one) coo...@digex.com
666th Fighter Squadron; #1225 - "Moggy"
Internet Daemons
Ronan Cullen
In article 10...@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com, nia...@dub-fdev.dub.comm.mot.com (Niall O' Byrne) writes:
>
> Will Divorce solve the problem of marital breakdown ?
> --
>
Niall,
Divorce is not intended as a solution to marital breakdown. The best
solution to marital breakdown is abolish marriage!
What divorce offers is a way out for 2 people whose marriage has
failed. What is the point of leaving them legally glued together when they
are obviously not suited to each other?
Take the example of the "family" where I used to live. The parents
were seperated, they had remodeled the house such that she lived upstairs
and he lived downstairs, and they never spoke to each other. Is this for
the sake of the children perhaps?
- Ronan
---
andrew j mueller
>the US use the term is the same way that people from other countries use the
>term 'politeness'.
what a load of crap. PC is bullshit liberal attempts to
rename such things as "handicapped" & "victim" with
well-wishing words like "vertically challenged" &
"survivor". Now the femminist movement wants PC people
to back them up by changing "women" to "womyn" just to
remove any reference, no matter how slight, to "men"
-viewyr
gerry harbison
>In article <2ctekq$3...@crcnis1.unl.edu>, harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes...
>>
>>I don't consider 'porn' per se offensive either (well, not all of it).
>>What I dislike is the exploitative porno-tourist mentality expressed
>>in this thread. I can't fathom the crassness of a mind that would
>>somehow associate naked pictures of red-haired women with Irish
>>culture, and post such drivel to a newsgroup discussing same. Irish
>>people are not objects for Americans to goggle at.
> Ahem. You may wish to consider looking at the newsgroup line. While I
>honestly can't fathom why soc.culture.celtic was included in the initial
>posting, some of these followups are coming from groups where people have
>a better grip on the difference between sexual fantasy and culture assass-
>ination.
[newsgroup line trimmed. Pearls before swine, etc.]
I see. The afficionados of alt.sex.movies are distinguished by their grip on
what is and isn't sexual fantasy. I hadn't looked at it quite that way before.
I thought their grip was mostly elsewhere.
> No one has suggested that the Irish people are objects for Americans to
>goggle at; they have stated that they find certain characteristics of Irish
>people and women in particular, sexually appealing.
What characteristics? Breasts? Genitalia? Irish people don't have a
set of unique physical characteristics that distinguish them from other
Northern Europeans. Line up a German, an Englishwoman, a Pole and an
Irishwoman side by side and I'm damned if I could tell by looking at
them who was who.
You're talking about fantasy here, and it's *your* fantasy. It's got
damn-all to do with Ireland. If you want to learn about Ireland,
read. I know it makes your lips tired, but try it.
>If you cannot handle
>that, then I suggest you set your followup-to lines accordingly, and climb
>off your high horse of self-righteous indignation.
I object to *some* Americans treating Ireland merely as a source of pornography
and I'm on a 'high horse of self-righteous indignation'. Pardon me, massa. How
could I be so selfish? After all, Ireland (and the rest of the world) exists
merely to supply the good old US of A with whatever the US of A
wants!
(loud retching sound)
Jeez, and just last week I was *defending* Americans on this newsgroup!
>>If you want to hear an Irish woman 'talking dirty', I suggest find one, and
>>express some of these sentiments to them. You may get more than you bargained
>>for!
> That *is* the general idea.
I guess you didn't understand what I meant. Heh heh heh.
>Jammer Jim Miller -- "exploitive porno-tourist mentality" indeed.
Indeed. And that's "exploitative".
>--
>Texas A&M University '89 & '91 | You don't have to be a Marine to be Semper Fi.
>"Beauty...survives." | Perception is 9/10ths of reality
>EMAIL TO: hmis...@admin.uh.edu
Gerry Harbison/honestly, they aren't all like this!
gerry harbison
I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm married to an
Irish-American. Most of my in-laws are Irish-Americans. In their
dialect, vocabulary, attitudes, values, in everything substantial
that makes up a
culture, they are clearly American, not Irish. What little connection
they have with Ireland has been distorted by two or three generations
of isolation from the country, and is more related to Ireland 100
years ago than it is to Ireland today.
As a matter of fact, when I go back, I'm considered a Yank. I've
picked up a good deal of an American accent (and it only takes a
little). I got tired of trying to convince people I was really Irish,
so now I just play along.
So it's not true that being born or raised in Ireland guarantees you
automatic cultural identification.
Gerry Harbison
Derek Gallagher
In article <2ctekq$3...@crcnis1.unl.edu>, harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu
(gerry harbison) writes...
>
>I don't consider 'porn' per se offensive either (well, not all of it).
>What I dislike is the exploitative porno-tourist mentality expressed
>in this thread. I can't fathom the crassness of a mind that would
>somehow associate naked pictures of red-haired women with Irish
>culture, and post such drivel to a newsgroup discussing same. Irish
>people are not objects for Americans to goggle at.
Lighten UP !!!! ;-).
Anyway "Hot Press" has just published a list of this weeks top 10
selling "Irish Porno Videos"...
10 -- Screwing the PAYE worker down on the Farm.
9 -- The CommitmentTiTs.
8 -- Fuckfaidh all la/.
7 -- Erin Gan Bra.
6 -- Debbie does Dublin.
5 -- Laurie Goodman and the Beef tribunal.
4 -- Fungi does Flipper.
3 -- All the Presidents Men.
2 -- United Erin.
1 -- Cummin na Gael
Available at all good stores where you are not known.....
James Alexander Chokey
>
>Now that these points have been clarified I think this discussion would best
>be continued either through email or through the newsgroups which specifically>handle the abortion issue.
Why? Your clarifications have been quite valuable, but others may yet
wish to offer further ones that could be even more so. It might make sense
to cross-post this thread to one of the abortion newsgroups, but I see no
reason for banishing it from s.c.c., when it clearly deals with issues of
politics, law, morality, medicine and sex in Ireland-- issues that are
perfectly appropriate for discussion in soc.culture.celtic. Please don't
play netcop in an attempt to get in the last word.
Mr. Goodbar
>harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
>> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
>No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
>it a little offensive, and if so why?
>L.
I'm only afew generations out of Ireland and it doesn't offend me and I
don't see why it would. Irish people like people from any area have certain
physical traits like red hair and cool accents(I know thats not physical)
My gf looks very Irish but is mostly german in decent, and I look very
Irish for a male and can't wait to see our kids.
Mr. Goodbar
remains, however in most cases the heritage is lost in most cultures
the Irish were treated much like slaves or as the Asians have been treated
in America. I know Irish tradition is still very strong in my family
as well as the strong Catholic traditions from Ireland and the heavy drinking.
Some of the terms Americans have adopted from Ireland are considered very
offensive by my family members.
I would love to see some porn with Irish woman. It would be a sign of a
growing economy in one of the poorest countries in the Industrialized world
Could you picture the bagpipes in the background(joke).
Michael Jason Lewis
>Thank God that in Ireland we have good enough social services and family
>support structures that women don't feel they have to let themselves be
>exploited in this way. In my experience, as well, Irish men in general
>have more respect for women than American men do; most Irish men of my
>aquaintence have plenty of women friends, enjoy socialising with them, like
>them as people (of course, the attraction is often there as well) in a way
>that an astonishing number of American men seem to lack. I think that male/
>female relations among Irish people are generally a lot healthier than among
>Americans.
> Fiona
1) I'm posting from a.s.m, not s.c.c. In case you care.
2) I can think of few things more random than a flame war between those
two groups.
3) The topic of whether women are exploited by pornography has been
discussed very exhaustively, and still there is controversy. My
understanding, however, is that although there have been and still may be
people who are being exploited when they make pornography (and remember that
we're discussing making it, not watching it), there are those women that
enjoy it. (I believe, for example, that Nina Hartley falls in this category.
I'm sure that there are others...)
4) Although I admittedly do not know very much about the family support/
social services aspect, I believe that, for example, Norway has very good
social services (I remember a bit about ombudsmen from a book I read a
long, long time ago), and the Norwegians do also produce pornography. In
fact, people from most European nations do, so far as I know.
5) I don't think that respect for women and desire to see a certain type
of woman in one's pornography are mutually exclusive. People have
different tastes. And in general, I don't think that respect for women
and pornography are mutually exclusive either.
Post or email responses. Doesn't matter to me.
- Mike
Sean V. Kelley
: In my experience, as well, Irish men in general
: aquaintence have plenty of women friends, enjoy socialising with them, like
: them as people (of course, the attraction is often there as well) in a way
: that an astonishing number of American men seem to lack. I think that male/
: female relations among Irish people are generally a lot healthier than among
: Americans.
: Fiona
Fiona,
Hmmmm.....Na/ po/s bean gan locht mar ni/l a leithe/id ann !
Ar bean gan locht thu/? :)
Now Fiona, let's not be generalising.
Sean
San a/it ina mbi/onn teas bi/onn mna/,
San a/it ina mbi/onn mna/ bi/onn gab! :)
--
===============================================================================
Seán V. Kelley "An rud is gaire don chroí, 'sé is gaire don bhéal"
ske...@tisl.ukans.edu Scríobh chugam i nGaeilge, más é do thoil é
===============================================================================
Telecommunications and Information Sciences Laboratory ( T I S L ) || K
The University of Kansas, Nichols Hall, Lawrence, Kansas 66045 USA || U
JOHNC)
Andrew Clarke
pasties? Not moving their arms when they bounce up and down? Some tenor
singing "I Met Her In The Garden Where The Praties Grow" in flagrante
delicto?
I hope there's no Irish porn and I hope there never will be any. One of
the very, very, few wise things Spike Milligan has ever said is that there
are two kinds of people in the world: those who live from the waist down
and those who live from the waist up, and the latter make a good living
from selling to the former.
Andrew Clarke
Aine.McManus
In article <22NOV199...@rosie.uh.edu> jam...@rosie.uh.edu (Miller, Jimmy A.) writes:
[deleted]
At the risk of starting a stupid debate, could someone decipher all this
for me? Why would a desire to see Irish women in pornos be considered
any more offensive than people desiring to see big/small boobs/blondes/red-
heads/black/indian/hispanic etc. etc.?
Perhaps because soc.culture.celtic is not the appropriate place to
express such a desire. s.c.c is not a forum for discussing
pornographic movies -- alt.sex and alt.sex.movies are.
Aine
--
*******************************************************************************
* , * *
* Aine McManus, * Ph: +61-6-249-4988 (w) *
* School of Mathematical Sciences, * *
* Australian National University, * Email: mcm...@pell.anu.edu.au *
* ACT 0200, Australia. * *
* * *
*******************************************************************************
Jack Campin
[ in Ireland... ]
> The homosexual laws have also been changed, its now legal, if you
> are 16 or over, which compares well to Britains 21 or over.
18 or over in England & Wales, 21 or over in Scotland. Can't remember if
it's been legalized in NI or not. Still illegal in the Isle of Man.
--
-- Jack Campin -- Room 1.36, Department of Computing & Electrical Engineering,
Mountbatten Building, Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS
TEL: 031 449 5111 ext 4195 HOME: 031 556 5272 FAX: 031 451 3431
INTERNET: ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL BANG!net: via mcsun & uknet
Éamonn McManus
> >The homosexual laws have also been changed, its now legal, if you
> >are 16 or over, which compares well to Britains 21 or over.
nia...@comm.mot.com writes:
> Explain please. I fail to see the logic here.
> This appears to suit the paedophiles and make no allowance for immaturity
> be it emotional, mental or physical.
I did not find the original statement in need of explanation. On the
contrary, I would be interested in a clarification of why you think
homosexuals are unable to make up their own minds at the age of 16
while heterosexuals have no such problems. Or do you favour raising
the heterosexual age of consent too?
,
Eamonn
Éamonn McManus
> > No one has suggested that the Irish people are objects for Americans to
> >goggle at; they have stated that they find certain characteristics of Irish
> >people and women in particular, sexually appealing.
> What characteristics? Breasts? Genitalia? Irish people don't have a
> set of unique physical characteristics that distinguish them from other
> Northern Europeans. Line up a German, an Englishwoman, a Pole and an
> Irishwoman side by side and I'm damned if I could tell by looking at
> them who was who.
While you can't be certain of identifying any one Irish person, there
are indeed physical characteristics that are more prevalent in Ireland
than elsewhere. This is to be expected, given that there has been
almost no immigration to Ireland in recent history. For instance,
Irish people have on the whole whiter skin than any other country in
Europe. There is also a significantly higher incidence of congenital
defects, presumably due to the smaller gene pool.
,
Eamonn
Chris Cooke
> The fact that abortion is illegal in Ireland is an expression of the
> values of the vast majority of its people; the fact that they happen to
> agree with the Catholic Church is irrelvevant; the church also condemns
> contraception and homosexuality, but both are legal in Ireland.
Homosexuality is legal in Ireland solely because the Irish government was
forced to legalise it by the European Court of Human Rights. It was NOT a
voluntary measure and they dragged their heels for years before finally
passing the law.
Terence P Higgins
In my experience, as well, Irish men in general have more respect for women than American men do
That is, of course, why Irish men make have made it next to
impossible for Irish women to have control over their own bodies in matters
of reproductive health, as well as making it damn near impossible for them
to get a decent divorce.
Lets not confuse respect with paternalism and a general feeling of
ownership, shall we
--
Evil has come to your little town, doctor
th...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Niall O' Byrne
In article <1993Nov24.0...@leland.Stanford.EDU>, jch...@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
>In article <1993Nov23.1...@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> nia...@comm.mot.com writes:
>>
>
>>
>>Now that these points have been clarified I think this discussion would best
>>be continued either through email or through the newsgroups which specifically>handle the abortion issue.
>
> Why? Your clarifications have been quite valuable, but others may yet
>wish to offer further ones that could be even more so. It might make sense
>to cross-post this thread to one of the abortion newsgroups, but I see no
>reason for banishing it from s.c.c., when it clearly deals with issues of
>politics, law, morality, medicine and sex in Ireland-- issues that are
>perfectly appropriate for discussion in soc.culture.celtic. Please don't
>play netcop in an attempt to get in the last word.
I apologise if I appeared to be playing "netcop" that was not my intention.
Whether you like it or not abortion is not just an issue in Ireland, it is
an issue in every country in the world.
What makes Ireland different is that it is the only country where a decision
to protect children in the womb was made through the democratic process of
a referendum to our Constitution. This point is all too frequently forgotten
particularly when someone wants to blame the Catholic Church for Irelands'
seemingly oppresive morality laws and to make Ireland out to be a backward
little island languishing in the dark ages.
It is also forgotten that this decision was not taken lightly and that public
discussions and debates were going on for at least two years before the actual
poll was taken.
The same can be said of the divorce issue. Marriage is protected in the
Constitution and it will take a referendum to allow a change in the law.
The present government have made noises about arranging a referendum sometime
next year. Just as in the past there will be plenty of public debate between
those in favour of divorce and those opposed to it before the votes are cast.
We do have silly marriage laws which the governement has no plans to rectify,
for example, in Ireland one can get an annulment from the Church which will
not be recognised by the State. Is Catholicism to blame for this ?
When it comes to the availability of contraceptives and pornography or
the legality of what consenting adults do to each other in the privacy of
their own homes these decisions are made by our democratically elected
public representatives which may or may not be in line with the feelings
of the majority of the population. This again has nothing to do with the
Catholic Church.
I do welcome public discussion on issues that are relevant to celtic issues
whether they are Irish/Scottosh/Welsh/Cornish or whatever. Unfortunately
discussions that start with seemingly good intentions frequently get
sidetracked - this thread began with an info search on Irish pornography and
Irish porn queens and through misinformation and snide remarks branched off
into this thread on Abortion/Contraception in Ireland only to suffer from
further misinformation.
Now where did I put that asbestos suit ;-)
--
#include<std.disclaimer>
Niall O Byrne, Motorola B.V./LMPS Dublin, IRELAND
Internet: nia...@comm.mot.com
"I wish I had said that" --- Oscar Wilde
Miller, Jimmy A.
>
>Yes- it strikes me that the way opponents of 'Political Correctness' here in
>the US use the term is the same way that people from other countries use the
>term 'politeness'. I mean, what is so terrible about calling ethnic or
>other groups of people what they choose to be called? Or refraining from
>using nasty racist or sexist or whatever terms? In most countries, that is
>called 'courtesy'; here it is 'Political Correctness' and considered a
>terrible violation of 'rights'.
While I agree in general, political correctness is not something that has
been made up out of whole cloth.
What *is* PC is the creation of horrific "speech codes" at some universities
here in the states (remember the "water buffalo" incident?). What *is* PC
is university presidents refusing to censure minority groups for stealing news-
papers with a viewpoint they don't agree with.
Calling Black people African-Americans, or the handicapped challenged, is
not being PC, but as Fiona said, simple courtesy. The tendency of some people
to consider this latter PC cheapens the fight against true political correct-
ness.
Jammer Jim Miller
b...@csvax1.ucc.ie
If you really were as Irish as you say you were then you would
know that bagpipes are Scottish and not Irish.
I am Irish and live in Ireland and the idea or Irish porn
or any other sort doesn't offend me
Thomas Bridge
>In the Western World Ireland has _the_ lowest maternal death rate, and this
>despite the unavailablity of direct abortion.
Actually, many people, on both sides of the abortion argument have suggested
that this is because of the unavailability of abortion. And its the lowest
maternal death rate in the World, no western qualification.
>>The homosexual laws have also been changed, its now legal, if you
>>are 16 or over, which compares well to Britains 21 or over.
>Explain please. I fail to see the logic here.
>This appears to suit the paedophiles and make no allowance for immaturity
>be it emotional, mental or physical.
The age of consent for homosexual sex is 17, just as for hetrosexual sex.
And your argument apllies just as well in the case of a 17 year old girl as
it does in the case of a 17 year old boy.
--
Thomas Bridge | Bray Wanderers AFC, FAI Cup Winners 1990 |
tho...@maths.tcd.ie| Division 1 Champions: 1986, 1994 |
-------------------| |
My opinions| The Irish soccer mailing list is now running. Mail me to join. |
Shawn Mehan
The man doth put sense into this newgroup! I am an American.
My wife is a Scott. She has been here seven years. She
will always have parts of her that makes her Scottish, but at the
same time, when we go visit her family, there are parts of her
that are definately american. CUlture is not a static thing.
You can not read about it in a book and say 'oh i say, that is neat.
I think i will be zulu from now on'. You pick up culture from
those around you so if you are surrounded by americans, you
will absorb american culture. Gerry himself admits to
having picked up part of the american culture and he is irish!
Jeesh, go look what culture means in any freshman sociology
text!!
-srm
.
Shawn Mehan
|> le...@nbi.com (Leigh Melton) writes:
|>
|> >harb...@unlinfo.unl.edu (gerry harbison) writes:
|>
|> >> (Anyone else just a teeny bit offended by this thread?)
|>
|> >No, but then again I'm not Irish. Just curious, however... do you find
|> >it a little offensive, and if so why?
|>
|> >L.
|> I'm only afew generations out of Ireland and it doesn't offend me and I
|> don't see why it would. Irish people like people from any area have certain
but he was saying irish might be offended. You are not irish.
|> physical traits like red hair and cool accents(I know thats not physical)
|> My gf looks very Irish but is mostly german in decent, and I look very
|> Irish for a male and can't wait to see our kids.
stereotype mode on!!!
Pray inform us, the ignorant heathen. What does very Irish look like?
Mode off!!
- a curious boy who like to know how to institute gene classification
based on physical traits, since the Nazi themselves couldn't do it right.
Mark Riordan
There was though a certain amount of enlightenment and political courage
shown by those who drafted the current law. They could quite easily
have decided to enact legislation which was less permissive than that
existing for heterosexuals.
At the time of the legislation David Norris who brought the original
case said that Ireland had rarely seen witchhunts against homosexuals
as had been the case elsewhere.
MARK
--
| rior...@cs.tcd.ie Mark Riordan, Computer Science Dept., |
| Mark.R...@cs.tcd.ie Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. |
| Tel: +353-(0)1-702 1335 Fax: +353-(0)1-677 2204 |
Mark Riordan
>From article <fch2...@cornell.edu>, by fc...@cornell.edu (Fiona
Hyland):
> In my experience, as well, Irish men in general have more respect for
women than American men do
>
> That is, of course, why Irish men make have made it next to
>impossible for Irish women to have control over their own bodies in matters
>of reproductive health, as well as making it damn near impossible for them
Contraception is freely available.
>to get a decent divorce.
Divorce was defeated in the last reforendum 7 years ago due to the lack
of other supporting legislation with regard to succession rights. This
I believe is now in place and a divorce referendum is likely in the next
few years which will see the introduction of divorce.
> Lets not confuse respect with paternalism and a general feeling of
>ownership, shall we
I wouldn't like to comment on what Fiona Hyland said (modesty forbids)
I would point out though that Irish women have been as much to the fore
in defeating progressive legislation in the past as men.
Steve McKinty - SunConnect ICNC
> Calling Black people African-Americans, or the handicapped challenged, is
> not being PC, but as Fiona said, simple courtesy.
Why? I work with an American, who is black. Calling him an African-American
is a sure recipe for an argument, he is adamant that he is simply an
American. Presumably his ancestors were African but he doesn't (as far as
I know) care, he was born & raised by his American family in America.
If you want to be more specific he will accept black American
since both adjectives are factually correct. Most of the time his colour
doesn't matter but sometimes (e.g. sending a vistor to talk to him) its
much simpler to say "he's the tall black man over there". Why should that
be any different to "he's the man with the red hair over there"? Using
'African' as an unnecessary euphemism for 'Black' is indeed, in a mild
way, an example of political correctness, and an inaccurate one at that
(not all Africans are black).
Much the same goes for disabled people. Their disability may or may not
be a handicap, and it may or may not be challenging. If they lack an
ability which is normally present in people (e.g. they are deaf, cannot
walk, etc. etc.) then they are by simple definition disabled (at least
partially).
At the end of the day it all boils down to the intention behind the words,
and not the words themselves. You can call a person 'black' as a simple
inoffensive statement of fact, or you can make it an insult. Regrettably
PC-types ignore the meaning and intent and look simply at the words.
Steve
--
Steve McKinty
Sun Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smck...@france.sun.com
Julie Cosby
>gerry harbison writes:
>>ancestry is more than half Irish. Sorry, it doesn't count. If you were
>>raised in America, you're American. What's wrong with that?
>>Being Irish is not a hereditary characteristic.
>
>It is one of the strange paradoxes of Irish culture that many Irish,
>including many Irish-born now resident in the United States, think
>that Irish culture is something that people had to leave on the dock
>at Cork, or was confiscated at customs & immigration on Ellis Island
>or JFK airport. Curiously tho, the opposite is never true -- once
>an American, always a Yank, even if you live 30 years in Ballygobackwards.
>
I agree totally. People whose ethnicity matches their nationality often
do not seem to see the difference between the two. Let me put it this
way, folks:
Someone who was born in the United States and whose ethnicity may include
Dutch, German, French, English, Spanish, Aboriginal American, etc. genetic
and cultural heritages may move to the Republic of Ireland and go through
whatever naturalization procedures that government sets as requirements
to obtain citizenship. Once he/she gets the citizenship, he/she is an
Irish national. His/her nationality is Irish. Maybe a married couple
does this and then have a child who is born in Ireland. That child's
nationality is Irish.
OK. Now let's say that sixteen married couples emigrate from Ireland and
form a community in the United States and marry only within that community
for the next five generations. A fifth generation child of this group,
born in the United States, has American nationality but Irish ethnicity.
An American national who has half of his/her ancestors that came from
Ireland is *ethnically* half Irish.
If your ethnicity and your nationality match, well, you obviously have no
personal need for such distinctions. However, in this mobile modern world
we all live in, more and more people have ethnicities different from their
nationalities. We find it useful to distinguish between the two.
I said it before, and will say it again. Our ancestors are our own, and not
yours (unless you happen to be a distant cousin, and then we share some
common ancestors). You (sibh) have no right to try to take our ancestors
away from us, and we won't let you. They are our ancestors, we carry in
every cell of our bodies the genes they bequeathed to us with their bodies,
we carry in our families the conglomeration of various cultural practices
as they have been combined and passed down with each marriage and each
generation. They are ours, and we are proud of them. When we research
the way our ancestors lived we are researching our own history, and we
have that right.
We do not have the right, however, and I do not have
the intention, to treat modern Irish nationals as living statues in a
museum. I (and others) recognize that you (sibh) are not our ancestors.
If those few people who don't already realize that when we talk about our
ancestry we aren't talking about you (sibh) would go ahead and realize
that and exercise a just a little tolerance we'd all get along with each
other a lot better..
[soapbox off]
Julie.
--
Julie Batson
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!jrcosby
Internet: jrc...@prism.gatech.edu
Brendan Wilkins
>
> Yes- it strikes me that the way opponents of 'Political Correctness' here in
> the US use the term is the same way that people from other countries use the
> term 'politeness'. I mean, what is so terrible about calling ethnic or
> other groups of people what they choose to be called? Or refraining from
> using nasty racist or sexist or whatever terms? In most countries, that is
> called 'courtesy'; here it is 'Political Correctness' and considered a
> terrible violation of 'rights'.
Reasonable point. Except politeness is a voluntary behaviour to which one
subscribes, while Political Correctness (if I understand the meaning of
the term correctly) is a set of standards imposed on others. While it is
absolutely desirable that people behave in the manner you have listed
above, it is also important to remember that people have the right to be
nasty and unpleasant, offensive and unreasonable as well. Imposing a
"politically correct" series of standards on peoples behaviour is not the
means by which people will become polite and respectful of others. And
_impose_ is exactly the way to describe the manner in which PC is
implemented on U.S. campuses.
Is mise le meas,
Brendan Wilkins.
Karen Gloria
[text deleted]
>Is there any truth in the statemant that the catholic church stated that
>it was okay to use condoms provided a pin-hole was placed in tip.
>Their reasoning being you could still conceive but it would stop STD's
>Good reasoning - does Rome still believe that the earth is the center of the
>universive ;-).
Well, since you asked...
Believe it or not, the Vatican reversed its decision in the Galileo
case just last year (Yes folks, it took the Catholic church 360 years
to officially admit that Galileo was correct in stating that the Earth
goes around the Sun). This from an article in Sky & Telescope
(January, 1993 issue):
"In 1979 Pope John Paul II opened an investigation of the astronomer's
condemnation by the church, calling for its reversal (S&T: December
1980, page 483). The inquiry formally closed on October 30th [1992]
with an acknowledgement of the Vatican's error."
(S&T: Jan. 1993, p. 8)
(Note it took the committee 14 years to to reach its decision on this
matter.)
Regards,
Karen G.
Thomas Bridge
>Is there any truth in the statemant that the catholic church stated that
>it was okay to use condoms provided a pin-hole was placed in tip.
>Their reasoning being you could still conceive but it would stop STD's
>Good reasoning - does Rome still believe that the earth is the center of the
>universive ;-).
CJ, this is absolute crap. If the Catholic Church has ever "said" such a
thing, you will probably find that it was a drunk priest in a pub.
If you think about it CJ, a couple who both follow Catholic teaching
on sexual relations will actually find it fairly difficult to pick up an
STD.
Also, there is a certain amount of evidence to suggest that condoms are more
effective in preventing pregnancy than STDs.
Thomas Bridge
about the Church and Galileo:
>(Note it took the committee 14 years to to reach its decision on this
>matter.)
Only that long. Heavens above, the Vatican bureacracy is improving in
efficency :-)
Ulick Stafford
It might demontrate that the country is making some change. But considering
that one cannot even get Playboy in Ireland, it is ridiculous. Does anyone
remember that poor sad attempt at a girlie mag in the early 80's - was it
called Executive or something?
However my favourite story related to this was the time the Sunday World did
a feature on Irish women going, shock, horror, topless on beaches at
continental resorts. However, the World went to great lengths to make sure
that the pictures published were of English women as showing pictures of
actual Irish women would have caused too many libel problems.
_____________________________________________________________________________
'There was a master come unto the earth, | Ulick Stafford,
born in the holy land of Indiana, | Dept of Chemical Engineering,
in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.| Notre Dame, IN 46556
| ul...@darwin.cc.nd.edu
Thomas Bridge
>hmmm...more arm chair social science. Women in Ireland are so well off they have to scurry to the UK to be able to get legal abortions. They are so well off they can not consider divorce a possibility. And the economy is so perky that many young Irishmen and women decide to emigrate to the US...... Ireland does not seem to be a paradise for women ... ask around.
>ck
Ignoring the abortion aspect, the points you bring up apply just as strongly
to Irish men as they do to Irish women.
As for the abortion issue, a survey in one of the national papers actually
showed that more women were voting against abortion than men.
Before making generalised assertions, at least try and establish the facts.
Thomas Bridge
>Homosexuality is legal in Ireland solely because the Irish government was
>forced to legalise it by the European Court of Human Rights. It was NOT a
>voluntary measure and they dragged their heels for years before finally
>passing the law.
As Mark Riordan pointed out, Ireland has never had the type of anti-gay
witchhunts that other countries have had. It was a voluntary measure, it
just took so long to come about because the government had other things on
its agenda (like 300,000 unemployed, and a large emigration rate) and because
it only sits for about 75 days a year anyway, which doesn't leave much time
for things.
Incidentally, the European Court of human rights has no legal authority, so
the Irish weren't forced to do anything.
Sean Slattery
>>It's called political correctness.
>Bollocks. This really pisses me off. I've spent years fighting political
>correctness in American universities, and the last thing I need is
>some wet-behind-the-ears twit chanting it mindlessly back at me.
>If you use the term 'PC' randomly to criticise anything you
>don't like, it'll be just another slogan, and people will turn off as
>soon as they hear it.
Whoops, sorry, too late. 'Political correctness' has already become that and
is shunned as being as narrow-minded a philosophy as those it tries to
oppose. A nice idea, but unfortunately has been carried way too far.
Still good for a laugh though ;-)
Sean Slattery.
Brendan Wilkins
ul...@michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
> But considering that one cannot even get Playboy in Ireland, it is
>ridiculous. Does anyone remember that poor sad attempt at a girlie mag
>in the early 80's - was it called Executive or something?
Perhaps not legally Ulick, but I had no difficulty in my teens acquiring
all sorts of pornography,including relatively hardcore stuff. Of course one
had to pay a premium price, and frequently the mags were, how shall I put this
delicately, obviously second (and subsequent) ahem hand. Deliveries of
fresh and unsullied material tended to coincide with rugby team trips
returning from Lorient, France. Where I came from certain video shops also
had "back rooms" where pornographic video material was available ranging
from mild "T&A" style to graphic Dutch and Swedish produced stuff. The
places that provided this were well enough known that I can't believe the
Gardai/ didn't know about them, though I never remember them being raided
or shut down. I think pornography is like many other things are (or were)
in Ireland.... freely available if you know where to look. As long as it's
not too obvious people are willing to tolerate it, all the while
maintaining that officially it does not exist. An Irish solution....
Scott Taylor
> >
> >Yes- it strikes me that the way opponents of 'Political Correctness' here in
> >the US use the term is the same way that people from other countries use the
> >term 'politeness'. I mean, what is so terrible about calling ethnic or
> >other groups of people what they choose to be called? Or refraining from
> >using nasty racist or sexist or whatever terms? In most countries, that is
> >called 'courtesy'; here it is 'Political Correctness' and considered a
> >terrible violation of 'rights'.
>
>
> not being PC, but as Fiona said, simple courtesy. The tendency of some people
> to consider this latter PC cheapens the fight against true political correct-
> ness.
>
> Jammer Jim Miller
> --
> Texas A&M University '89 & '91| You don't have to be a Marine to be Semper Fi.
> "Beauty...survives." | Perception is 9/10ths of reality
> EMAIL TO: hmis...@admin.uh.edu
Perhaps it isn't PC per se, but it is an attempt by the liberals and the
media to identify people as members of a "group" with rights, instead of as
individuals with responsibilities.
It's the first step in promoting the politics of envy.
See also "affirmative" action.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott D. Taylor "Luck is the residue of design."
sc...@col.hp.com -- Branch Rickey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> EMAIL TO: hmis...@admin.uh.edu
Ulick Stafford
>I'm only afew generations out of Ireland and it doesn't offend me and I
>don't see why it would. Irish people like people from any area have certain
Red hair, an Irish trait! Red hair is no more common in Ireland thn in any
other Northern European country. The average Irish hair colour is mousey
brown, but varies from quite fair (like me) to extremely black (black Irish
thred abain, anyone?).
Nicholas J. Gant
|> It might demontrate that the country is making some change. But considering
|> that one cannot even get Playboy in Ireland, it is ridiculous.
top shelf of course...). I did not pause to see which foot the readers dug
with.
--
Nick Gant My opinions are my own.
Chevron Overseas Pet. Inc.
San Ramon, Life is too important to be
California taken seriously - Wilde.
Dahner
>>ancestry is more than half Irish. Sorry, it doesn't count. If you were
>>raised in America, you're American. What's wrong with that?
>>Being Irish is not a hereditary characteristic.
There's nothing wrong with that. However, I was born and raised in
Redondo Beach, California, and I am registered as a foreign-born
citizen of the RoI. Having been born on US soil, I am also a citizen
of the US (making me one of the few people who can rightly call them-
selves Irish-American, eh? :) I'm a dual-national because my maternal
grandmother was born in Co. Kildare. So, according to Irish law, being
Irish, as far as citizenship goes, *is* hereditary.
--
*****************************************************************************
"He was standing right here, watching us!"
"-- playing bass!" - CTR, MST3K
*****************************************************************************
Jack Campin
> gerry harbison writes:
>> Being Irish is not a hereditary characteristic.
> yours (unless you happen to be a distant cousin, and then we share some
> common ancestors). You (sibh) have no right to try to take our ancestors
> away from us, and we won't let you. They are our ancestors, we carry in
> every cell of our bodies the genes they bequeathed to us with their bodies,
Cut to a discussion going on right now in alt.magick...
Tom Craig (crai...@juncol.juniata.edu) wrote:
| I am a Shamanic Elven Paladin,
| Elves exist and, believe me, it would be wise for all on this NEWSgroup
| to open their minds before passing judgement, or disaster will claim them.
| I am not threatening anyone, I am just warning all before this world exacts
| its revenge.(I cannot say it in a better way.)
| My ancestors were Scotch-Irish, which means I am descended from the peoples
| whose legends were full of tales of Elvenkind. So yell, complain, or
| ignore as you will; but I will go on as will others who are of Elvenkind.
Subscribe and see him get turned into a frog before your very eyes, by an
American yet.
> we carry in our families the conglomeration of various cultural practices
> as they have been combined and passed down with each marriage and each
> generation. They are ours, and we are proud of them.
What holiday did you say you were celebrating this week?
--
-- Jack Campin -- Room 1.36, Department of Computing & Electrical Engineering,
Mountbatten Building, Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS
TEL: 031 449 5111 ext 4195 HOME: 031 556 5272 FAX: 031 451 3431
INTERNET: ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL BANG!net: via mcsun & uknet
Peter Cassidy
In article <1993Nov24.1...@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, nia...@dub-fdev.dub.comm.mot.com (Niall O' Byrne) writes:
>What makes Ireland different is that it is the only country where a decision
>to protect children in the womb was made through the democratic process of
>a referendum to our Constitution. This point is all too frequently forgotten
>particularly when someone wants to blame the Catholic Church for Irelands'
>seemingly oppresive morality laws and to make Ireland out to be a backward
>little island languishing in the dark ages.
Niall, having look back through this thread, I have to say that *you* seem
to be the only one talking about the Catholic Church.........
Speaking of which, however, what about the influence of the church (catholic
or otherwise) on our educational system??? There was a recent seminar on
this, the outcome of this was that the state wished the main churches would
relinquish a little of their power over state schools. Of course, they
wouldn't budge an inch !! Thoughts ??
>The same can be said of the divorce issue. Marriage is protected in the
>Constitution and it will take a referendum to allow a change in the law.
>The present government have made noises about arranging a referendum sometime
>next year. Just as in the past there will be plenty of public debate between
>those in favour of divorce and those opposed to it before the votes are cast.
Why enshrine someone's religious beliefs into the constitution of our country?
It may or may not be the views of the majority, but what of the minorities ??
If a practise (divorce, contraception, etc ..) is against your religious
beliefs, then *don't* practise them !!!! Simple as that. No point foisting
one's beliefs upon the population at large, regardless how 'right' you may
believe them to be.
>
>We do have silly marriage laws which the governement has no plans to rectify,
>for example, in Ireland one can get an annulment from the Church which will
>not be recognised by the State. Is Catholicism to blame for this ?
During the last referendum, the Catholic church made their position *very*
clear on this issue. Therefore they had a hand in the passing of the law.
Therefore, in my opinion, yes - they are partly to blame.
>When it comes to the availability of contraceptives and pornography or
>the legality of what consenting adults do to each other in the privacy of
>their own homes these decisions are made by our democratically elected
>public representatives which may or may not be in line with the feelings
>of the majority of the population. This again has nothing to do with the
>Catholic Church.
Like I said ....
>#include<std.disclaimer>
>Niall O Byrne, Motorola B.V./LMPS Dublin, IRELAND
--
Pete
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Peter Cassidy - Motorola BV Ireland - Test Systems Engineering |
| pet...@dub-tse.comm.mot.com cassidy...@email.mot.com |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Murphy
McManus) writes:
EMcM> Irish people have on the whole whiter skin than any other country in
EMcM> Europe.
Could this be due to the lack of Vitamin D supplement in the milk? I
never remember any such thing in it (up to 1980) and it seemed strange
to me when I came to the US that it was "Vitamin D Milk" -- until I was
told what effect lack thereof has on pigmentation.
Of course they might have started adding it. Or the lack of sunshine
:-)
- Pat
--
==========================================================================
| Patrick P. Murphy, Ph.D. Scientific Programming Analyst |
| National Radio Astronomy Observatory Net: pmu...@nrao.edu |
| 520 Edgemont Road Phone: (804) 296-0372 |
| Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 VoiceMail: (804) 980-5889 |
| World-Wide Web: http://info.cv.nrao.edu/staff/pmurphy/pm-home.html |
| "I don't believe in the no-win scenario" --- James T. Kirk |
==========================================================================
Paul Moloney
>>Is there any truth in the statemant that the catholic church stated that
>>it was okay to use condoms provided a pin-hole was placed in tip.
>>Their reasoning being you could still conceive but it would stop STD's
>>Good reasoning - does Rome still believe that the earth is the center of the
>>universive ;-).
>CJ, this is absolute crap. If the Catholic Church has ever "said" such a
>thing, you will probably find that it was a drunk priest in a pub.
Not absolute crap, but, rather, garbled. This story comes from the fact
that Catholic couples, when collecting semen during intercourse for the
purposes of artificial insemination, are advised that a hole should be
placed in the condom which the man wears - purely for purposes of
collecting the semen - so that fertilisation _may_ take place, and so
that the sexual act performed is blessed in the eyes of the Lord. Or
something to that effect.
Of course, this is all to fulfil the stipulation that the sex act should
be open to conception. Given that the couple cannot conceive in the _first_
place....
P.
--
moorcockpratchettdenislearydelasoulu2iainmbanksneworderheathersbatmanpjorourke
clive p a u l m o l o n e y "Hey, you know, I met a lot of cool chicks, but
james trinity college dublin I never met a girl with all her own teeth" -NO
brownbladerunnersugarcubeselectronicblaylockpowersspikeleekatebushhamcornpizza
Andrew Clarke
>a...@libserver.canberra.edu.au (Andrew Clarke) writes:
>
>> I hope there's no Irish porn and I hope there never will be any. One of
>> the very, very, few wise things Spike Milligan has ever said is that there
>> are two kinds of people in the world: those who live from the waist down
>> and those who live from the waist up, and the latter make a good living
>> from selling to the former.
>
>I find that preposterous. To fully live is to live BOTH from the waist
>up and down.
AC: I think that might have been the point of Spike's comment ...
Sex is a wonderful part of life and should never be
>slighted.
AC: Which is what pornography does ...
>
><sigh>
AC: I think Spike did not intend to be take absolutely literally ...
>
>I wouldn't be interested in a man who was totally cerebral, be he Irish
>or otherwise
AC: [Usual joke about Irishmen and water-skis (etc.) deleted]
- and I like the Irish.
AC: Me too -- which is why I don't like Irish pornography.
>
>L.
Andrew Clarke
Foreman: You reckon you're a qualified builder?
Molloy: That I am, sir.
Foreman: Garn. I bet you don't know the difference between a girder and a
joist ...
Molloy: Sure and I do: the one wrote Faust and the other wrote Ulysses ...
gary cooper
>I think that there is too much time been spent on this stupid subject
Then ignore it...
--
gary cooper (not the dead one) coo...@digex.com
666th Fighter Squadron; #1225 - "Moggy"
Internet Daemons
The 4.15 Stanford Executive
>In article <2cuk30...@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, vi...@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Mr. Goodbar) writes:
>>I would love to see some porn with Irish woman. It would be a sign of a
>>growing economy in one of the poorest countries in the Industrialized world
>>Could you picture the bagpipes in the background(joke).
>
>If you really were as Irish as you say you were then you would
>know that bagpipes are Scottish and not Irish.
>I am Irish and live in Ireland and the idea or Irish porn
>or any other sort doesn't offend me
Never heard of uilleann pipes I suppose. Never noticed all those pipe
bands up in N.I. either
This entire thread heralds a new low for s.c.c.
/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
/
/''' Kyle Wohlmut - 'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und
c-OO 'The 4.15 / uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr
\ Stanford - Kind. Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
- Executive' / dass ich ky...@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'
-
-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
Pat
A previous poster mentions that in Ireland, one would be sent to jail
for trying to make a pornographic movie. Is that true?
What if one made it in Northern Ireland? Interviewed Irish models
and had them travel over the border, what would happen?
How about Art Books? THe Former Indonesian first lady almost lost
her citizenship and had her book banned for just that.
would that occur in either the RI or NI?
pat
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually
fearing that you will make one -- Elbert Hubbard.
Mr. Goodbar
well as thier are African physical traits. It is not just that they are irish
but the part of the globe they are on. Africans look different in different parts of Africa and the Irish look different too from different parts of Europe
and yes bagpipes are played in parts of Ireland, sorry if my post to this
effect was based on the area that my family was from. Yes bagpipes are
originally of scottish decent but just as many herbs and gunpowder came from
asia so were things passed among Europeans.
Mr. Goodbar
>>physical traits like red hair and cool accents(I know thats not physical)
^^^^^^^
sorry reference to the highlights and alot of the beards. When I was i Ireland
touring and visiting family I noticed the red highlights and with alot of
the brown haired men I noticed alot of red mixed into thier beards.
D
--
Mr. Goodbar
The world's full of crap - sooner or later
your going to step in it.
~ Nick Nolte
"Farewell to the King"
D
B
Mr. Goodbar
>At the end of the day it all boils down to the intention behind the words,
>and not the words themselves. You can call a person 'black' as a simple
>inoffensive statement of fact, or you can make it an insult. Regrettably
>PC-types ignore the meaning and intent and look simply at the words.
>Steve
Amen to that.
Sean Matthews
> In article <2cspua...@coli-gate.coli.uni-sb.de> I wrote:
> >No, but very amused. Since it is often observed that the Irish have drink
> >instead of sex, an Irish porn movie would be a collection of Guinness
> >advertisments and hard core would probably be an advertisment for Jamesons.
>
> I must inform you that not all Irish people are drunkards and prefer
> drinking to sex. This whole Irish porn topic is pretty sick, but I just
> had to correct your thinking.
> Carey Cox
Speaking as someone who spent the first 25 years of his life there, and
goes back fairly often, I'm afraid, allowing for a little exageration due to
the circumstances where I posted, that you seem to have been too humour impaired
to notice, that I (along with any decent social history of Ireland) have to
disagree with you.
As for Irish porn being sick, I can't wait. The day
`Deep inside Kathleen ni Houlihan'
appears really will mark an important cultural step forward for the country
(albeit indirectly).
Sean
--
Sean Matthews <se...@mpi-sb.mpg.de>
Work: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Informatik, phone: +49 681 302 5363
Im Stadtwald, D-66123 Saarbruecken, Germany fax: +49 681 302 5401
Home: Graf-Johann Str. 20, Saarbruecken phone: <none currently>
Chris Cooke
> In article <CH039...@curia.ucc.ie> b...@csvax1.ucc.ie writes:
> >If you really were as Irish as you say you were then you would
> >know that bagpipes are Scottish and not Irish.
> >I am Irish and live in Ireland and the idea or Irish porn
> >or any other sort doesn't offend me
> Never heard of uilleann pipes I suppose. Never noticed all those pipe
> bands up in N.I. either
Pipes aren't even specifically Celtic; they used to be common, and are now
being revived, throughout Europe.
> This entire thread heralds a new low for s.c.c.
Oh I don't know, it's better than <whisper> *the* *troubles*...
Thomas Bridge
>In article <1993Nov24.1...@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, nia...@dub-fdev.dub.comm.mot.com (Niall O' Byrne) writes:
>Niall, having look back through this thread, I have to say that *you* seem
>to be the only one talking about the Catholic Church.........
Actually Peter, the anonymous poster was the first to make a mention of the
church.
>>We do have silly marriage laws which the governement has no plans to rectify,
>>for example, in Ireland one can get an annulment from the Church which will
>>not be recognised by the State. Is Catholicism to blame for this ?
>During the last referendum, the Catholic church made their position *very*
>clear on this issue. Therefore they had a hand in the passing of the law.
>Therefore, in my opinion, yes - they are partly to blame.
And if Bray Wanderers Supporters Club come out against divorce in next
years referendum, and divorce is defeated, then BWSC is to blame?
This is obviously wrong. The point that you are missing is that the
electorate (unfortunately - let's get this clear, I favour some divorce)
decided against it. The Catholic Church may have influenced some of them,
but that was not the only reason why people voted against it.
Thomas Bridge
>tho...@maths.tcd.ie (Thomas Bridge) writes:
>>cjb...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu writes:
>>>Is there any truth in the statemant that the catholic church stated that
>>>it was okay to use condoms provided a pin-hole was placed in tip.
>>>Their reasoning being you could still conceive but it would stop STD's
>>>Good reasoning - does Rome still believe that the earth is the center of the
>>>universive ;-).
>>CJ, this is absolute crap. If the Catholic Church has ever "said" such a
>>thing, you will probably find that it was a drunk priest in a pub.
>Not absolute crap, but, rather, garbled. This story comes from the fact
[explanation deleted]
Fair enough. I'll withdraw the "absolute". The crap stays though.
I am fairly sceptical about any story that CJ comes out with, as he
recently "informed" this newsgroup that there was a law in this country
saying that children of mixed marraiges have to be bought up as
Catholics, which as you are aware is b*ll*x. The Church may have a law
but that's different.
Chris Cooke
> As Mark Riordan pointed out, Ireland has never had the type of anti-gay
> witchhunts that other countries have had. It was a voluntary measure, it
> just took so long to come about because the government had other things on
> its agenda (like 300,000 unemployed, and a large emigration rate) and because
> it only sits for about 75 days a year anyway, which doesn't leave much time
> for things.
OK, sorry about that, I was obviously misinformed. If only Scotland had such
a government...
> Incidentally, the European Court of human rights has no legal authority, so
> the Irish weren't forced to do anything.
They have the power of Embarrassment. (Makes it sound like Cosmic
Encounter..)
Brendan Hassett
>I think that there is too much time been spent on this stupid subject
Personally, I don't think we are wasting time. s.c.c should be
discussing cultural issues, and I'm sure that a.s and a.s.m find
this relevant also.
As Fiona Hyland pointed out, the Irish people have a different
mentality in this area when compared to Americans. Therefore, it is
not surprising that an American should ask us about our almost
non-existent porn industry. The backlash may have been surpising
to our American audience, and it is the best example I can find to
demonstrate the different mentalities.
I do agree that Irish men treat women with more respect than their
American counterparts do, but we are far from perfect. Ireland is
definitely not a Utopia for women.
p...@access.digex.net (Pat) writes:
>A previous poster mentions that in Ireland, one would be sent to jail
>for trying to make a pornographic movie. Is that true?
As far as I remember, about five/six years ago, the cops raided a
house in Athlone where porn films were being made. I have no idea
what the outcome was. Anybody know the story?
And for anybody who wants to see a red-head take her clothes off,
there's no need to limit yourself to Irish women. When I was in
Scandinavia, several people thought I was local because of my red
hair. Some thought that Irish people had black hair, and that
only Scandinavians had red hair. Strange...
So for your next Irish erotic adventure, just goggle at some Swedish
red-heads, and use your imagination :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Brendan Hassett. (eei...@eeiud.ericsson.se) Tel +353-902-74601 |
| EEI.EEIBHT, Test Support, EEI/SXP department, ~~~ |
| Ericsson Systems Expertise Ltd, Athlone, Ireland. ( o o ) |
--------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-
#include <disclaimer.h>
Mark Riordan
>pmol...@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) writes:
>
>>tho...@maths.tcd.ie (Thomas Bridge) writes:
>>>cjb...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu writes:
>
>>>>Is there any truth in the statemant that the catholic church stated that
>>>>it was okay to use condoms provided a pin-hole was placed in tip.
>>>>Their reasoning being you could still conceive but it would stop STD's
>>>>Good reasoning - does Rome still believe that the earth is the center of the
>>>>universive ;-).
>
>>>CJ, this is absolute crap. If the Catholic Church has ever "said" such a
>>>thing, you will probably find that it was a drunk priest in a pub.
>
>>Not absolute crap, but, rather, garbled. This story comes from the fact
>
>[explanation deleted]
>
>Fair enough. I'll withdraw the "absolute". The crap stays though.
>
>I am fairly sceptical about any story that CJ comes out with, as he
>recently "informed" this newsgroup that there was a law in this country
>saying that children of mixed marraiges have to be bought up as
>Catholics, which as you are aware is b*ll*x. The Church may have a law
>but that's different.
And even then IT DOESN'T! The Catholic partner undertakes to do their
best to bring up the children as Catholics to the best of my knowledge.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I am cracking under the strain :-)
MARK
--
| rior...@cs.tcd.ie Mark Riordan, Computer Science Dept., |
| Mark.R...@cs.tcd.ie Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. |
| Tel: +353-(0)1-702 2158 Fax: +353-(0)1-677 2204 |
Niall O' Byrne
In article <1993Nov24.1...@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, pet...@dub-tsw1.dub.comm.mot.com (Peter Cassidy) writes:
>
>Niall, having look back through this thread, I have to say that *you* seem
>to be the only one talking about the Catholic Church.........
>
>Speaking of which, however, what about the influence of the church (catholic
>or otherwise) on our educational system??? There was a recent seminar on
>this, the outcome of this was that the state wished the main churches would
>relinquish a little of their power over state schools. Of course, they
>wouldn't budge an inch !! Thoughts ??
>
Yes!!
I suggest you read the Constitution and see what it says about education
and the links between Church and State.
If you don't like what it says then organise a referendum to change it.
That's what the Constitution is there for, to ensure that the democration views
of the population are catered for.
State schools are run by the State, not the church.
The Dept. of Education provides guidelines
on the curriculum to be taught and supplies the teachers. If religion is to
be taught then the school can hire a qualified religion teacher. In the
majority of cases this is a lay teacher and the church has little control
over what actually happens in the class room.
The issue at the conference was about schools where the church, be it Catholic,
Protestant, Baptist, Unitarian or otherwise is a patron of the school. In
other words they own the school buildings and appoint a board of management.
They are the kings of their own castles and as such have every right
to have the schools run as they see fit. They also have the right to close
down the school if it suits them.
If a parent has a problem with this then they can move their children to
a school where the church has no influence.
I don't think the churches have much influence over what happens in schools
like Mount Temple, do you ? I believe this is a State school.
--
#include<std.disclaimer>
Niall O Byrne, Motorola B.V./LMPS Dublin, IRELAND
Internet: nia...@comm.mot.com
"I wish I had said that" --- Oscar Wilde
Niall O' Byrne
In article <1993Nov24.1...@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, pet...@dub-tsw1.dub.comm.mot.com (Peter Cassidy) writes:
>Why enshrine someone's religious beliefs into the constitution of our country?
>It may or may not be the views of the majority, but what of the minorities ??
>If a practise (divorce, contraception, etc ..) is against your religious
>beliefs, then *don't* practise them !!!! Simple as that. No point foisting
>one's beliefs upon the population at large, regardless how 'right' you may
>believe them to be.
>
I do not consider that abortion, divorce, contraception or homosexuality
or anything else dicussed in this thread are religious issues. They may
be to some people, but to me they are issues of Human and Civil rights.
Our personal and public morality laws are not enshrined into the Irish
Constitution so changes in the laws on contraception, homosexuality,
pornography, prostitution etc are made without reference to the general
population.
As for religious laws being foisted on the population at large, have you
ever tried to get a pint in Saudi? :->
--
#include<std.disclaimer>
Niall O Byrne, Motorola B.V./LMPS Dublin, IRELAND
Internet: nia...@comm.mot.com
Niall O' Byrne
>
>It would be great if someone could answer this question in the affirmative.
>It might demontrate that the country is making some change. But considering
>that one cannot even get Playboy in Ireland, it is ridiculous. Does anyone
>remember that poor sad attempt at a girlie mag in the early 80's - was it
>called Executive or something?
>
Maybe I've been dreaming for the last few years but I thought I had noticed
a number of changes recently.
Relaxing of the contraceptive laws, decriminalisation of homosexual acts
between consenting persons over 17, the good Dr. Stanleys video sex manual
available at every Xtra-vision and Durex ads between the prurient ejaculations
of Jonathon Phlippin Bowman on the radio in the morning. [ :-> ]
What is the fascination with the legalisation of pornography in Ireland and
why sould this be considered to be a barometer of change ?
Maybe I'm wrong here but I think that most Irish people prefer their sex lives
to involve real people and not a glossy magazine, a video and Pamela and her
five sisters.
Mark Riordan
>
>Relaxing of the contraceptive laws, decriminalisation of homosexual acts
>between consenting persons over 17, the good Dr. Stanleys video sex manual
>available at every Xtra-vision and Durex ads between the prurient ejaculations
>of Jonathon Phlippin Bowman on the radio in the morning. [ :-> ]
The radio ad I like is the one with the woman with a broad Dublin accent
describing a condom with a rather rough texture and flavoured of lemon
(or something similar) which had been shown to her by a prospective
lover. She rejects his advances with the immortal line. "If ih was
sweets I was lookin' for I wudda baw' chewin' gum" or something like
that. Bet you don't have ads like that in Britain or the US.