Gaulic names according to Caesar

[Lector Priest]

Are names of the towns, people and tribes listed in Caesar's Gallic Wars
Commentaries the actual names the Gauls used or are they Roman names? I have
always been curious about the 'us' ending on the Gaulic names and the 'i'
ending on all of the tribal names.

[Akins of that Ilk]

Lector Priest <kur...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8mfl9s$bht$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...

No, Caesar's "Gallic Wars" Latinised the Gallic names the Gauls used. In
fact, Caesar totaklly ignores the names the Gauls gave to their deities and
replaces these with their Latin counterparts. Calling Brigando "Minerva";
Esus "Mercury"; Taranis "Jove" or "Jupiter"; Teutates "Mars", etc.
For comparative purposes, here is a table of equivalents for the
Celtic/Teutonic/Graeco-Roman deities:

Graeco-Roman: Gaulish: Gaelic: Briton:
Teutonic:

Uranus Brenos Brian Bran
Bor

Cronus/Saturn Mogounos Daghda Math
Odin/Wotan

Zeus/Jupiter Taranis Tuirenn Taranis
Thor

Persephone Brigando Brighid Blodeuedd/Branwen
Freyja

Artemis/Diana Dea Matres Danu Don
Frigga

Hecate Morigana Morrigan Morgan/Modron
Hela

Pan/Faunus Cerrnunnos Cerna Cerne/Herne
Ullr/Wuldor

Hades/Dis Dunatis/Donnus Donn Arawn
Loki/Loder

Hermes/Mercury Lugus Lugh Lleu/Llwch
Hermod

Apollo/Adonis Maponos Cuchulainn Culhwch/Mabon
Freyr

Theseus Esus Oengus Amaethon
Heimdall

Hephaestus/Vulcan Sucellos Goibniu Gofannon
Wieland

Ares/Mars Teutates Tethra Tathal
Tyr/Tiw

Helios/Sol Belenos Bel/Beal Beli
Baldur

Poseidon/Neptune Nodens Lir/Nuadha Llyr/Llud/Nudd
Njord

Triton/Proteus Mananos Manannan Manawydan
Aegir

Plutus Medros Midhir Pwyll
Forseti

[indr...@my-deja.com]

I would like to know why "Akins of that Ilk" feels qualified to answer
questions about Gaulish linguistics, when he seems to be unprepared to
do so properly?

> No, Caesar's "Gallic Wars" Latinised the Gallic names the Gauls used.
In
> fact, Caesar totaklly ignores the names the Gauls gave to their
deities and
> replaces these with their Latin counterparts. Calling
Brigando "Minerva";
> Esus "Mercury"; Taranis "Jove" or "Jupiter"; Teutates "Mars", etc.
> For comparative purposes, here is a table of equivalents for the
> Celtic/Teutonic/Graeco-Roman deities:

Actually, Caesar - as well as other Roman and Greek writers - only
modified Celtic names slightly - and sometimes not at all (we know
ancient languages like Gaulish looked from ancient Gaulish inscriptions
which have been discovered). Generally, Gaulish masculine names ending
in -os were changed to -us in Latin writings (though there were also
Gaulish names ending in -us that required no change whatsoever).
Feminine Gaulish names in -a required no change in Latin, while Neuter
Gaulish names ending in -on where changed to -um in Latin (but left as
is in Greek).
Caesar did not "ignore" the Gaulish divine names - he was simply trying
to explain the Gaulish gods in a way that the folks back home would
understand, by giving their closest Roman equivalent.

This list below is mostly useless - I want to know why Akins felt the
need to invent cognate Gaulish names (and do a rather poor job of it)
for British and Irish mythic figures?

> Graeco-Roman: Gaulish: Gaelic: Briton:
> Teutonic:
>
> Uranus Brenos Brian Bran
> Bor

Uranos has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Brennus - dispite what your
copy of "The White Goddess" says.

> Cronus/Saturn Mogounos Daghda Math
> Odin/Wotan

Who ever told you that Mogounus Apollo was the equivalent of the Dagda?
That's a new one - and the fact that you equate the Celtic Apollo with
Kronos or Saturn is even more bizarre.

> Persephone Brigando Brighid
Blodeuedd/Branwen
> Freyja

And why is Brigantia (not Brigando! Get the names right, please!)the
equivalent of Persephone? She is quite clearly connected in
inscriptions with Minerva or Victoria. Please explain why you connect
Brigid with both Blodeuedd and Branwen as well.

> Artemis/Diana Dea Matres Danu Don
> Frigga

Another useless batch - you even have your plurals and singulars mixed
up - the name is either Dea Matrona (sg) or Deae Matres (plural). In
addition - why would you ignore the most obvious Gaulish equivalent to
Don and Danu - Gaulish Danuuius? Also, why do you equate Artemis/Diana
with the Deae Matres and Frigg - they are not even the same type of
goddess!

> Hecate Morigana Morrigan Morgan/Modron
> Hela

Where, pray tell, do we find a Gaulish goddess named Morigana? Go ahead
and surprise me. Why do you think that Morrigan is the equivalent of
Hecate, when she quite clearly has war goddess status?

> Pan/Faunus Cerrnunnos Cerna Cerne/Herne
> Ullr/Wuldor

Herne is a Germanic figure - why do you have him as a British god?

> Hades/Dis Dunatis/Donnus Donn Arawn
> Loki/Loder

You obviously don't know anything about the Gaulish god Dunatis - he is
the protector of the hill-fort (Dunon). His name is not related to
Donnus (which is not even a divine name in Gaul). Why do you think Loki
is a god of the underworld??

> Apollo/Adonis Maponos Cuchulainn Culhwch/Mabon
> Freyr

And why is Cu Chulainn the equivalent of Gaulish Apollo? Where has he
displayed evidence of being a healing god?

> Theseus Esus Oengus Amaethon
> Heimdall

Another bizarre collection - Esus is clearly stated to be either
Mercury or Mars - and has direct correlations with Odinn. Oengus (Mac
ind Og) is the Irish reflex of Maponos/Mabon. Amaethon is a "farmer-
god." How do you possibly connect all these different figures?

> Ares/Mars Teutates Tethra Tathal
> Tyr/Tiw

How do you connect Tethra with Tathal? The two names cannot not be
connected to the same root.

> Helios/Sol Belenos Bel/Beal Beli
> Baldur

Beli has been connected in recent research not with Belenos, but rather
with Bolgios - an eponymous ancestor of the Belgae.

> Triton/Proteus Mananos Manannan Manawydan
> Aegir

Where do you find a Gaulish god Mananos???

You know, if you are trying to propose a hypothetical word or name, you
need to put an asterix before it - that is the academic standard.
In addition, if you are going to engage in Celtic linguistic
reconstructions, please do everyone a favor and actually learn the
rules of Celtic linguistics first.

- C. Gwinn

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[indr...@my-deja.com]

[Kevin Daly]

<snip>

> Actually, Caesar - as well as other Roman and Greek writers - only
> modified Celtic names slightly - and sometimes not at all (we know
> ancient languages like Gaulish looked from ancient Gaulish inscriptions
> which have been discovered). Generally, Gaulish masculine names ending
> in -os were changed to -us in Latin writings (though there were also
> Gaulish names ending in -us that required no change whatsoever).
> Feminine Gaulish names in -a required no change in Latin, while Neuter
> Gaulish names ending in -on where changed to -um in Latin (but left as
> is in Greek).

<snip>
To that excellent explanation I would only add that the "-i" plural ending
is accurate, since in this (as in the genitive singular of "-os" masculine
nouns) the ancient forms of the Celtic languages agreed with Latin (its
influence still survives in the form of palatalised consonants in Irish,
which is why "cat" is "cat" but "cats" and "of a cat" are "cait" (a
consonant written next to "e" or "i" is normally pronounced differently from
one written next to "a","o" or "u")...and no, that isn't an English loan
word. (from earlier "*kattas,*katti" and even earlier "*kattos,*katti" -
this was either borrowed into colloquial Latin from a Celtic language, or in
the other direction, I'm not sure)).