Is Guyana a Caribbean Country?
Virgilio
(MAOIshmael) wrote:
> Sure, it is! There is no confusion among the vast majority of Guyanese
> about this. Maybe, some people feel that Guyana cannot be classified as
> Caribbean because it is not an island in the Caribbean Sea. But Guyanese
> and other Caribbean people share the same history, culture, hopes and
> aspirations. And, certainly, Guyanese are more comfortable in the company
> of other Caribbean people than with anybody else.
You seem to be confusing the "Caribbean" with the West Indies. The
Caribbean includes the West Indies, but also includes most of Central
America, Venezuela, Colombia, and at least partially Mexico.
If you look at your map, you'll notice that Guyana is *not* "washed" by
the Caribbean Sea, but by the Atlantic Ocean.
If being part of the Caribbean was a "cultural" thing, we would have to
say that most of the countries of South America, which have lots in common
with Cuba and the Dominican Rep., are by extension also in the Caribbean.
That would be ridiculous!
Regards,
___Virgilio
Andre Griffith
>As a matter of interest, do you know that in the village of Buxton, a
>large cake sold in the shops is known as a Bajan?
I thought a Bajan was one o dem big tennis roll.
Virgilio
General) wrote:
> As far as culturally:
> 1. We speak English (with a more than smilar accent)
> 2. Both the African and Indians have the same origins.
> 3. The lifestyle and food is resembles greatly.
> 4. The Music and culture is unmistakably Caribbean
> (Eddy Grant etc.)
It is crystal clear that you are confused about the meaning of 'caribbean
culture'. It is quite obvious that by 'caribbean culture' you mean
English-speaking-Caribbean culture. BAD IDEA!!!
You won't tell this by reading this group, but, depending upon what
definition you use, a solid majority or an overwhelming majority of
"Caribbean" people are *NOT* English-speaking.
Even if you only consider the islands, and forget about the
Central-American countries in the caribbean, as well as Colombia and
Venezuela, still a solid majority of 'caribbean' people would be
non-English-speaking.
To see this easily, notice that the combined population of the two most
populous English-speaking caribbean countries, Jamaica (2.5 mil) and T&T
(1.3 mil) bearly match the population of Puerto Rico, the least populated
of the Spanish-speaking caribbean nations. In the islands alone, there are
about 23 millions Spanish-speakers, versus some 5 or 6 millions
English-speakers. That's around a 4-to-1 ratio in favor of
Spanish-speakers. If you consider the Spanish-speaking caribbean countries
in the mainland, tha ration will grow to about 20-to-1!!
So, if you are going to make the mistake of speaking of a 'caribbean
culture', you are going to have to conclude that 'caribbean' culture is
that of the Spanish-speaking caribbean. Of course, I do not like this
option. So, I'd rather say that there isn't such a thing as a 'Caribbean
culture', because the Caribbean people are 'multicultural'.
Regards,
___Virgilio
Andre Griffith
>If you look at your map, you'll notice that Guyana is *not* "washed" by
>the Caribbean Sea, but by the Atlantic Ocean.
>If being part of the Caribbean was a "cultural" thing, we would have to
>say that most of the countries of South America, which have lots in common
>with Cuba and the Dominican Rep., are by extension also in the Caribbean.
>That would be ridiculous!
>Regards,
>___Virgilio
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Being a part of the "caribbean" is indeed a cultural thing. Part of that
Culture is knowing exactly what we mean and who we include when we say caribbean
When we say a man "get ignorant", we dont expec' some "English Duck" to come
along and infer that we mean that he suddenly developed a lack of knowledge :)
Roland R Clarke
: So, if you are going to make the mistake of speaking of a 'caribbean
: culture', you are going to have to conclude that 'caribbean' culture is
: that of the Spanish-speaking caribbean. Of course, I do not like this
: option. So, I'd rather say that there isn't such a thing as a 'Caribbean
: culture', because the Caribbean people are 'multicultural'.
I disagree ...
First, it is an axiomatic truth of human existence that
each and every one of us have a culture (like it or not).
Second, the multiculturalism of which you speak *is* in
fact the culture of the *peoples* of the caribbean ...
In fact, an illustrative example would go somewhat like this:
A mule is a hybrid of a horse and a donkey.
But, a mule is a mule and nothing else,
and a horse a horse, and a donkey a donkey.
Sure ... a mule has some of the characteristics
of a horse (i.e. it's strong), and some of the
characteristics of a donkey (i.e. it survives with
very little care, whereas horses don't) ...
Roland
PS: Any Bajan who travels to England is usually
shocked by the similarities between Barbados and England.
I would wager that the culture of Barbados is more
than 51% english ... We in Bim would like to think
that we are ever so unique ... and we are, given my
comments above ... but the truth of the matter
(whether Bajans are even aware of it or not) ... is that
present day Barbados is indeed a melanger ...
I have also "discovered" some traits of "African"
in (black) Bajans ... but it is relatively small ...
and somewhat confined to the arts, the extended family structure,
a little bit of religion (obeah), and some foods,
and inter gender relationships ...
The English side has significantly affected the following:
Religion (80% anglican), language (english), education
system (A'levels, O'Levels), social structure (class system),
architecture (older stone buildings), government (Westminister
style and the Permanent Secretary system), sports (only
Wari is african), the nuclear family, the number system
(in fact it is primarily arabic ...
the original Yoruba number system
is based on 20, and uses negativity quite a bit),
clothing, tea drinking (even the Romans didn't understand
this about the english), etc ... etc ...
Of course, much of the above are generalizations ...
but I hope the point is made ...
Roland
MAOIshmael
But to re-emphasize the point that others have made.....
Guyana is the headquarters of Caricom (the Caribbean Community). It is
also one of the three founding members of the Caribbean Free Trade Area
(Carifta). Two weeks ago, Suriname was admitted as the newest full member
of Caricom, which shows clearly that all Caribbean nations see that
country, like Guyana, as totally Caribbean.
The recent establishment of the Assocation of Caribbean States (at the
beginning of this year) clearly defines the Caribbean as being the island
territories of the Caribbean Sea, and the mainland countries of Suriname,
Guyana, Venezuela, Colombia, Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala,
Belize, Honduras, and Mezico. French Guiana, which politically is a
Department of France, also has the option of joining.
Ange R. Perrault
definition of the word CARIBBEAN.
CARIBBEAN All countries in America where the CARIBES/CARAIBES/CARIBS
indians settled prior the the arrival of the europeans.
So: Caribbean countries include Most of Central America,
Colombia, Venezuela, guyana, Suriname.
What about Brazil? no Caribes outthere?
I just knew that saying GAYANESE are NOT CARIBBEAN was going to cause problem.
Well! I just had to jump in and give the GAYANESE a hand.
I am shock that all you guys came up with was CARICOM, Come on you can do
better than that. Hey! I believe GAYANESES ARE CARIBBEAN so no flames.
PEACE
Virgilio
R. Perrault) wrote:
> definition of the word CARIBBEAN.
>
> CARIBBEAN All countries in America where the CARIBES/CARAIBES/CARIBS
> indians settled prior the the arrival of the europeans.
> So: Caribbean countries include Most of Central America,
> Colombia, Venezuela, guyana, Suriname.
>
> I just knew that saying GAYANESE are NOT CARIBBEAN was going to cause
> problem. Well! I just had to jump in and give the GAYANESE a hand.
Not so fast!! You forgot to tell us who gave you that definition. It is
certainly *not* the definition given by Webster's or the American Heritage
dictionaries.
And, any way, your definition is fatally flawed. If we were to take it
seriously we would have to conclude that Jamaica, Cuba, and possibly the
other Greater Antilles are *NOT* part of the Caribbean, as they were
settled by Arawak people (The Caribs *may* have conducted "raids" on some
of those islands, but did not settle in them). In fact, the Arawaks also
occupied the Lesser Antilles, until shortly before the Spanish occupation
of the Caribbean, when the Carib drove them off.
A good chunk of Central America would also be excluded as the
Caribs/Caribans are found mainly in northern Honduras, Guatemala, and
Belize. As far as I know, no Caribs ever settled in present day countries
of Nicaragua and Costa Rica, and I seriously doubt that they did in Panama
or Colombia.
So, your definition does include the Guiana region of South America, but
it does so at the expense of leaving out a big chunk of what most people
understand by "Caribbean".
Atte.,
___Virgilio
Virgilio
(MAOIshmael) wrote:
> Guyana is the headquarters of Caricom (the Caribbean Community). It is
> also one of the three founding members of the Caribbean Free Trade Area
> (Carifta). Two weeks ago, Suriname was admitted as the newest full member
> of Caricom, which shows clearly that all Caribbean nations see that
> country, like Guyana, as totally Caribbean.
ATTENTION!!!, ATTENTION!!!, ATTENTION!!!, ATTENTION!!!, ATTENTION!!!
The Andean country of Chile will soon be MOVING to North America!!!
How come??????
Simple: Chile has been admitted to be a member of the North-American Free
Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which officially 'certifies' Chile as a
North-American country!!
That's the way Grece and Turkey, two Mediterranean countries, 'gained' a
coast in the North Atlantic (when they join North Atlantic Treaty
Organization, (NATO))!!
And, of course, that's how Guyana, a country bordering the Atlantic Ocean,
with *NO* Caribbean coast, ended up in the Caribbean!!
Well, what's next?! With Chile in North America, Turkey in the North
Atlantic, and Guyana in the Caribbean, I guess the possibilities are
endless.
What about admitting Canada to Mercosur, so that it becomes the first
country to be both in the northern part of North-America, and in the
southern "cone" of South America? Wouldn't that be fun?! If nothing else
it would disprove the old maxim stating that one cannot be in two
different places at the same time!!!
Peace!
___Virgilio
Evans Curtis
No, no, for us -in east Nicaragua- Bajan is a converted drum in which you
BAKE the goods :)
Evans Curtis
Virgilio <vro...@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <3j5n7c$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>, perr...@a.chem.upenn.edu (Ange
>R. Perrault) wrote:
>
>
>Not so fast!! You forgot to tell us who gave you that definition. It is
>certainly *not* the definition given by Webster's or the American Heritage
>dictionaries.
>
>
>Caribs/Caribans are found mainly in northern Honduras, Guatemala, and
>Belize. As far as I know, no Caribs ever settled in present day countries
>of Nicaragua and Costa Rica, and I seriously doubt that they did in Panama
>or Colombia.
Wait a minute! Like you said, not so fast! I'm from Nicaragua and I can
assure you that there ARE some of these people there. Then again, they
may have migrated there from somewhere else, settling in a place called
Orinoco. In any event, they were known as 'caribs' and had their own
dialect. No, not many, I'd say several dozens -at most.
Just my $.02...
Evans.-
NAWBATT PETER BK
"Guyanese" as "Gayanese" and he pluralized it. This is incorrect and as I
mentioned the correct spelling is "Guyanese" and it cannot be pluralized.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
wq
:
wq
:wq
>
>
>
>
Ange R. Perrault
in the Antilles, so it is hard with no known history of their movement
to deduce what their territory comprised of. They were what we would
call in our time: Pirates.
If I remember well I think they cannibals (if I am not mistaken)
They were feared throughout the whole region. It would be wrong to
labeled them as settlers, more like nomads, or pirates.(just an analogy)
Any insite is welcomed.
John C.V. Ferguson
acph...@uoguelph.ca writes:
>definition of the word CARIBBEAN
There are only two kinds of people in this world:
Those who are from the Caribbean
and ...
Those who want to be from the Caribbean!!
;-)
-------------------
John C.V. Ferguson
Dallas, TX, USA
ferg...@onramp.net
-------------------
John C.V. Ferguson
Anyone who has lived in the Caribbean region knows that Guyana, Suriname
and Cayenne (Fr Guiana) in South America, and Belize in Central America,
are considered Caribbean countries. The CARICOM (Caribbean Community)
Secretariat, for example, is even located in Georgetown, Guyana. When
Anthony Nesty won the Gold in Swimming in the 1990 Olympics, it was as
much a victory for Suriname as it was for the Caribbean. I will not
attempt to define what is or isn't Caribbean today. Sometimes, even
Bermuda feels Caribbean and the Bahamas feels like part of Florida!
Remember there is a convergence of many cultures (and languages) which
make up the Caribbean: Arawak, Carib, Amerindian, African, Indian,
Chinese, Syrian, Lebanese, British, Irish, Spanish, French, Danish and
Swedish. Those of us who speak English sometimes think we have an
exclusive lock on what is Caribbean culture and identity. As one travels
throughout the region, however, there are strong differences especially
in crossing language boundaries. The Spanish speaking countries (Cuba,
Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico) have a close affinity with Spain and
Spanish Latin America. The French speaking countries (Haiti, Martinique,
Guadeloupe, St Martin) still have a close association with France.
Arawak, Carib and Amerindian influences survive in Dominica, Aruba,
Curacao and Bonaire, and Guyana, Suriname, and Cayenne. Africans and
Indians populate much of Guyana and Trinidad & Tobago in almost equal
numbers and there's a significant population of Chinese in T&T and
Jamaica. Hispanics (people of Spanish European origin) are the majority
in Cuba, DR and PR with Africans as the second dominant ethnic group.
Middle Easterners came to the region more recently as "suitcase traders"
(not meant derogatively since that's the way many of them started their
businesses) and live among us, as the T&T creed, says "where every creed
and race have an equal place". Add yes, the Danes once owned the US
Virgin Islands (the former Danish West Indies) and Sweden once owned St
Barthelemy. In spite of these differences all of these people are
Caribbean. Furthermore, countries and states with ci=ommunities living
along their Caribbean coastlines in North, Central, and South America
(Nicaragua, Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico, Colombia and Venezuela, and even
the Florida Cays) are sometimes regarded as Caribbean by their way of
life.
While Aruba and the Neth Antilles are politically under the Netherlands,
their inhabitants have a mixture of ethnic and cultural influences. In
Aruba, Curacao and Bonaire practically everyone speaks or understands
Spanish, Dutch, English and Papiamento. This is not only because of
proximity to South America but because the Dutch education system
emphasizes a knowledge of multiple languages. Why don't a majority of
Guyanese speak Spanish, Portugese or Dutch, the languages of their
bordering neighbors? Because, I contend, the English education and
political system believes in the superiority of the English language.
Very few Martiniquans, Guadeloupans or Haitians speak English, because
their French colonial legacy ensured dominance of the French language.
Spanish Caribbean countries are more open to other languages,
particularly English, but moreso because of the cultural influences of
the United States. St Lucians and Dominicans speak fluent French and
Patois while these languages have virtually disappeared in Grenada and St
Vincent which were also under French rule, though for less time.
Nevertheless, the Windward Islands are predominantly Catholic, a result
of French and not English influence. Antigua and Barbados on the other
hand are predominantly Protestant.
I believe that there is no "correct" name for either persons, places or
events. Names cannot be separated from their historical time. Many of
the Caribbean countries are named for religious saints, events or places.
This was due to the influence of the Church during the period of
Columbus' expeditions to the West Indies - itself a relative term to
distinguish the islands from the previouly known (to Europeans) East
Indies. The names of many places in the English speaking islands are
still French, a reminder of that colonial past. Big Drum Dancing from
West Africa (including songs and religious rituals) has survived in
Carriacou for centuries despite the loss of many other cultural links to
Africa. Many people of non-European origin have traditionally European
names, a relic of the practice of naming slaves after their masters, not
uncommon in most places that practiced slavery. Should everyone in that
situation drop their names and search for their ancestral names? What's
the point? Some have done it - it's a personal choice - and that's fine.
Some non-Caribbean countries have even changed their names back to
earlier names or to new ones. However, names provides us with a
significant frame of reference to understand our real past, painful as it
may be, and not one we wish had been.
Carnival is not celebrated in Barbados, Jamaica or Guyana, while it is a
tradition in most of the other islands, and Brazil. Yet we all enjoy
calypso, reggae, soca, cadance, merengue, etc. The Caribbean is not a
homogeneous culture. Indeed, I argue that despite our small size, we
have the richest cultural diversity and the highest respect for the
coexistence of multiple races, religions, creeds and cultures anywhere.
That's why I'll repeat, partly in jest, that there are basically two
kinds of people in this world: those who are from the Caribbean and those
who wish they were. I have yet to visit another part of the world where
people with such diverse historical backgrounds have learned to live in
relative peace and harmony. Finally, I submit that we have achieved a
higher degree of social integration in the Caribbean, across all our
cultural and language bondaries, than these great United States.
Anyway folks, I'll get off my "Hyde Park" pulpit now and have a cold one.
As all true Trinis, Grenadians and Kittitians should agree, real men
(and women, to be politically correct) drink Carib beer!
shemi...@gmail.com
It's a disgrace that sterotyping a country like guyana sa cannot speak spanish and only English and is the first language.
We eat rice and bean chicken yuca plantain pork etc.
We need people know we are in south america and not in the west indies or caribean.
We the people in Guyana are so poor has no where to go and cannot speak for themselves.
We should be a south america by rights.
The Doctor
even if is part of South America.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
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