To All Bulgarians Abroad
Anco S. Blazev
June 01, 1996
TO ALL BULGARIANS LIVING AND STUDYING ABROAD.
Dear friends:
It is apparent that the disarray in our motherland is getting worse,
and that the government will not be able to solve the problems at
hand -- no matter which political party takes power next -- unless
some decisive, and even drastic, measures are taken soon.
I have no quick problem solving recipe to offer, but would like
to offer the following conclusions and suggestions, instead:
1. Most problems in BG are of economic/industrial/agricultural
management (or lack of it) nature. The strange BG politics
only make things worse.
2. Lack of knowledge and experience by most "leaders" in the
critical areas, are major causes for the propagation of the
problems and chaos in the country.
3. There are many Bulgarians living and studying abroad, and these
people are an untapped resource of experience. Many of them are
already on the Net, and could be easily reached.
4. Is there a way to tap their knowledge and expertise in a way that
would alleviate the nightmare in BG? Could we put our differences
aside and work united, at this critical moment, for the benefit of
our agonizing motherland; for her survival and well-being?
Your ideas and suggestions would be highly appreciated.
Sincerely yours,
Anco S. Blazev
Phoenix, AZ, USA
E-mail W...@PrimeNet.Com, or
Bla...@Aztec.ASU.Edu
--
gal...@pathcom.com
In article <4otbkd$2...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
Anco S. Blazev <w...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
>TO ALL BULGARIANS LIVING AND STUDYING ABROAD.
Thats stretching a broad a bit thin, maybe you have two broads
Tatiana Maneva
Anco Blazev wrote:
: June 01, 1996
: TO ALL BULGARIANS LIVING AND STUDYING ABROAD.
: Dear friends:
: It is apparent that the disarray in our motherland is getting worse,
: and that the government will not be able to solve the problems at
: hand -- no matter which political party takes power next -- unless
: some decisive, and even drastic, measures are taken soon.
Dear Anco: Your outcry is shared by many people who live abroad. It is easy
to say "the hell with this miserable country, we've suffered enough over
there!" And many who left their motherland bear such feelings. I don't think
they can be blamed too much However, it is incredibly hard to dissociate
completely from the place that made us who we are, and it is immoral to curse
Bulgaria from our new cushy places. (I didn't participate in scb for a long
time, but now I have an urge to share some thoughts, feelings, and
observations, so please excuse the "eloquence" that will follow. :-)
On your proposal for drastic measures. Yes, you are right. Bulgaria reached
the point of total embarrassment and collapse. I will try to point out
things that can be done in more rapid fashion and things that will require
more time.
: I have no quick problem solving recipe to offer, but would like
: to offer the following conclusions and suggestions, instead:
: 1. Most problems in BG are of economic/industrial/agricultural
: management (or lack of it) nature. The strange BG politics
: only make things worse.
It's all intertwined. One follows the other and vice versa.
: 2. Lack of knowledge and experience by most "leaders" in the
: critical areas, are major causes for the propagation of the
: problems and chaos in the country.
In my opinion this is the biggest problem. While the world was sympathetic to
our inherited economic problems, political chaos and poverty at the beginning,
nobody today can justify the shambles Bulgaria found itself in. Undoubtedly,
we have become the East European outcast, preceded even by Albania as far as
economic growth and political stability is concerned. I don't think that the
color of the governing party matters anymore. Most of the politicians in
Bulgaria over the last seven years, regardless of their party affiliation,
have disgraced themselves and proved to be totally incompetent. What I have
in mind:
Over all these years Bulgaria failed to achieve even an international
visibility. This should have been the easiest task. Politicians and
professionals at home and diplomats abroad failed to make the international
community notice Bulgaria, with its opportunities and problems. Only recently
the media in the U.S. is focusing on Bulgaria but only because its notorious
failure is too obvious and does not need an additional
advertisement. Entangled in personal rivalries, corruption, dormant
self-indulgence, arrogance, greed, not to mention striking stupidity and
Balkan mannerism, our politicians and the so-called political, legal, and
business experts put the final RIP stone on Bulgaria.
A few pointers: Look at the scandalous behaivour demonstrated by Videnov and
his gang. His impotence in foreign policy -- tsar Simeon's treatment is just
another sad example of Bulgarian politicking. Videnov could not realize with
his shallow miserable brain that if he showed a bit of respect and courtesy
towards the monarch, Bulgaria would have benefited from it on a larger scale
since I can't think of a better Public Relations person for Bulgaria right now
than the king himself.
The most notable Videnov's activity was only shown in his begging for IMF
loans and mumbling that he will comply with IMF's conditions for economic
reforms. EU on the other hand, demands that Bulgaria should change over 100
pieces of its legislation in order to be taken seriously. Where was his dumb
ass along with his corrupt government to realize earlier what to do about
getting Bulgaria out of its hole. Or if he didn't have a clue, he could have
at least shown a good will and interest in carrying out the reforms.
Look at Videnov's disgraceful ministerial appointments, look at his
relationship with Zhelev, whom he treats like dirt in the eyes or the world.
If the president and the Prime Minister cannot establish an elementary link of
communication, what can be expected from the numerous Bulgarian bureaucracies?
Look also at the shortsightedness of the SDS leaders and its electorate in
the recent primaries! Why the people in Bulgaria still think that if you keep
constantly changing the political personalities you will reach the prosperous
end?! People are being judged only from a political angle. Professionalism
seems not to emerge as an issue. Zhelev may have a lot of faults as president
and nobody denies that, but he also have a decent international reputation,
accumulated political experience, and what's more important he lacks
extremism. He is still the only link between the numerous political formations
in BG. Stoyanov, unfortunately, looks like another faceless politician that
comes to light in Bulgaria. Someone mentioned recently in scb that SDS just
elected themselves a communist president. I can't but agree with that
statement. Right now I cannot find a single reason to think that Stoyanov
will win the presidential race. The scenario in the primaries was really
predictable: The lean and extreme SDS electorate cast their ballots for
Stoyanov because they hate Zhelev's guts, since according to them, he is a
traitor who allowed himself to make deals with the socialists. The initial
SDS electorate from few years ago has diminished drastically in numbers and
cannot possibly compare with the steady BSP votes of the pensioners and the
massive BSP regions. Suppose all the SDS
voters in the primaries come to the presidential elections (which I highly
doubt) and all of them vote for Stoyanov, I still think that he does not have
a chance to win, since BSP, as always, will be voting en mass for whomever
they are told. My only hope is that the BSP presidential candidate is a weak
political puppet, so that Stoyanov could stand a chance.
: 3. There are many Bulgarians living and studying abroad, and these
: people are an untapped resource of experience. Many of them are
: already on the Net, and could be easily reached.
This is a painful topic. It's true that many Bulgarians, mostly young,
educated, and extremely capable people (many of whom I have the honor to know
personally) have left the country and settled in the West. But it is also true
that most of them are still in school or just got out of it and are lacking
the financial resources and the network typical for other ethnic groups
abroad. On a brighter note, there are Bulgarian associations, emerging in big
cities. Although these groups and enterprises can still be considered
informal, some of their activities are becoming more and more visible, (they
are mostly affiliated with academic clusters, church activities, and the
handful of media ventures, mostly in bigger cities such as New York, Boston,
San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) giving all signs of good health and growth.
However, individual efforts still remain the primary source of contacts with
Bulgaria for humanitarian or whatever aid.
The Bulgarian emigrants not once have been blamed for passivity and treason by
their compatriots at home. It is not true that all of the potential emigrants
would want to remain abroad. The truth is that they are not given any other
choice. Bulgaria has never suggested incentives for these highly qualified
individuals with Western education and exceptional skills to come back home.
And I am not talking only about financial compensation, which obviously cannot
be compared to what all these people are paid in the West(Let's not forget
that many Bulgarians abroad would have traded higher wages for their home
environment, family, friends, and more modest, but dignified existence
(i.e. not poverty). But let's leave the financial issue aside... I have never
witnessed any of the Bulgaria's recent governments to try to establish
contacts with Bulgarian students abroad who study in different fields and
eventually recruit such professionals. There has never been an effort to look
for future capable politicians, or business executives in the students abroad,
who are getting a superb education at Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, etc. Not an
effort from the pumped up government organizations and ministries, filled with
old and sclerotic rats, to locate and cherish such individuals and eventually
use them for a higher cause. Young Bulgarians are completing their education
with honors, find prestigious employers, become a part of a powerful
academic, political, or business network abroad, make a name for themselves
and Bulgaria is remaining oblivious to its brain treasures, without even a
clue of the potentials that stand behind these people.
Only a few examples: When a friend of mine, with considerable experience and
an M.B.A. from the States, went to one of Bulgaria's biggest state-owned
companies that deals with export (vqnshno-tqrgovsko predpriyatie) offering his
services, this company's president suggested that at the moment he could
only hire him as an entry-level accountant, with the lowest pay, and he would
only do it as a favor, because all the executive positions were taken by the
old-timers. Another friend with an advanced business degree told be that most
of the private businesses in Bulgaria also don't care to have people who can
make business plans, market projections, marketing strategy. Businesses over
there prefer to pile up as much money as they can overnight, using whatever
means the rudimentary capitalism can offer, and not think of tomorrow, or of
the rest of the market, or of their own inevitable bankruptcy due to
incompetence. It is scary to think how many economic failures Bulgaria has
witnessed in the last few years (ending with the most embarrassing shortage of
bread, due to lack of economic strategy and government regulations)
Moreover, pathetic media -- papers and broadcast, never showed an effort to
attract Bulgarian young professionals who got their education in this field
from the U.S. I heard a story of a Bulgarian journalist with a Master's
degree from the States to be offered a job of an intern at a local
newspaper. :-)
All these people make an attempt to test the waters in BG. Getting such a
response they make everything possible to remain in the West. Some succeed,
some go back anyway.
In the meantime, Harvard business majors from Bulgaria start working for
Western companies who are buying out East European, including Bulgarian state
enterprises, bringing high profits to their western masters and themselves.
(the Westerners found a way to use those brains, while Bulgaria does not
care). I don't see why skilled Bulgarians cannot be hired as independent
consultants by the Bulgarian government, while it's dealing either with
Western corporations or with western aid agencies, who send their own people
to different state ventures and are supposed to come up with decisions based
mostly on the feed from local bureaucrats, who on the other hand are sunk in
corruption and incompetence.
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I think that the American University in
Bulgaria still receives some small amounts of money from the Bulgarian budget,
therefore the government and the university itself (as it has stated in its
brochure) has an interest in stopping the extremely high turnover of American
faculty members who go there only on a year or two contracts (and are mostly
retired academics or philanthropists, who consider their stay over there as an
exotic sabbatical). On the other hand, there are numerous Bulgarians from
prestigious universities, with hot doctoral degrees and teaching experience
from the States. I am sure that many of those people would not mind returning
to Bulgaria and teach at a Western institution such as AUBG. However, I have
reasons to believe that this university is still adhering to dubious hiring
policies. (For this, I am mostly blaming the Americans:-)
And lastly, it is not a secret that the Bulgarian saying "Koy e toy da mi dava
akql!" is still prevalent in Bulgarian mentality. Somehow our nation lost
the respect toward its intellectual elite, which was so typical during the
years of the Bulgarian revival and the following periods. This partially
explains the high rate of return of Bulgarian intellectuals after studying
abroad prior to 1944.
I am sure that many of the Bulgarian emigrants do not want to go back because
they feel that their own country and people don't really care of what they can
offer, or worse, would destroy what they can offer.
: 4. Is there a way to tap their knowledge and expertise in a way that
: would alleviate the nightmare in BG? Could we put our differences
: aside and work united, at this critical moment, for the benefit of
: our agonizing motherland; for her survival and well-being?
There is no doubt that BG needs a massive shake up. However, it cannot happen
tomorrow. Each of us knows their own possibilities and limitations. It seems
to me that the most important thing for the future Bulgarian lobby, at least
in the U.S., is to make every effort to bring more visibility to Bulgaria
In other words, make some noise on both ends.
Just an example: Recently there was created a Balkan Studies Institute
affiliated with Boston College. It was established due to the efforts of a
few Bulgarian PhD students. Bulgaria is the main focus of this Institute's
activities. It publishes a bulletin featuring articles from Bulgarian
economists, experts in political and social science who are in the States. It
makes book reviews of the newest books published in Bulgaria, it conducts
seminars, exchange programs with Sofia University.
It has even established a Bulgarian-language
program at Boston College. (check out their home page --
http://www.sysu.com/bsi/default.htm )
As far as individual efforts are concerned, I can't wait to go to Bulgaria
this summer! Having not been there for a long time, I can't wait to use my
camera and reporter's notebook and make some noise as I come back here.
: Your ideas and suggestions would be highly appreciated.
Thank you all of those who had the patience to endure my lengthy monologue.
I promise, I am not going to use (if at all) that much space around here.
Regards,
Tatiana
: Sincerely yours,
Vladimir Alexiev
In article <4pai84$9...@news.bu.edu> tma...@bu.edu (Tatiana Maneva) writes:
[Overall good article but without much anything about what we can do.
It is my suspicion that we can do nothing anyway.]
> Balkan Studies Institute affiliated with Boston College. It was established
> due to the efforts of a few Bulgarian PhD students.
I wonder how did they do it. And waht about us the technical types? I
certainly cannot establish even a project somehow connecting Bulgaria and
computers, much less an institute. Would it be enough if I hanged a poster
saying "Yo, did you know that John Atanassov was a half-Bulgarian?"
It's kind of neat though, when I go to play soccer, some of my buddies call me
"Stoichkov" :-)
> As far as individual efforts are concerned, I can't wait to go to Bulgaria
> this summer! Having not been there for a long time, I can't wait to use my
> camera and reporter's notebook
Oh, me too! Can't wait to use my bathsuit and make some splashes in the sea.
Lazarin Lazarov
Tatjana Maneva agrees with Anco Blazev that the situation in Bulgaria
needs "decisive, and even extreme measures".
At the same time she strongly recommends Zhelev, who "has e decent
international reputation, accumulated political experience, and what's
more important he lacks extremism".
Sound logic, isn't it?
Let's make noise!
Tatiana Maneva
Lazarin Lazarov (laz...@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu) wrote:
Sometithing that I would refer to as Balkan mannerism.
: Tatjana Maneva agrees with Anco Blazev that the situation in Bulgaria
: needs "decisive, and even extreme measures".
You misquoted me and him. We never said "extreme" but "drastic." There is
a difference in meaning. Extreme could be considered Filip Dimitrov's
statement from a few years ago at Harvard Law Schooll, which I heard with my
own ears. Our former prime minister back them inferred that he regretted that
he could not apply Machiavelli's methods to the Socialist government that
preceeded him. Quote: "It would have been easier to chop off thier
(socialists') heads."
: At the same time she strongly recommends Zhelev, who "has e decent
: international reputation, accumulated political experience, and what's
: more important he lacks extremism".
In your posting you took things out of context and mixed
oranges with apples. I would have spent some time explaining to you in datail
what the difference between political exptemism and drastic corrections in
economic policy legislation, and personnel is, however, you do not look like a
person who is perceptive enough to be awarded some of my free time.
Tatiana
: Sound logic, isn't it?
: Let's make noise!
Nicolas Kostoff
T.Maneva postva edin mnogo obstoen komentar na pismoto na Anco Blazev. S@glasen
s@m s povecheto neshta, koito prochetoh. Ne bih iskal s@s svoite razmisli da
provokiram nova bezpolezna razpraviya, zatova neka te b@dat interpretirani po-
skoro kato fakti, koito ne se vpisvat v nachertanata ot T.Maneva kartina.
I taka, stava duma za priema, koito poluchavat v B@lgaria specialisti,
poluchili svoyata kvalifikaciya na zapad.
..
TM> I have never witnessed any of the Bulgaria's recent governments to try to
TM> establish contacts with Bulgarian students abroad who study in different
TM> fields and eventually recruit such professionals. There has never been
TM> an effort to look for future capable politicians, or business executives
TM> in the students abroad, who are getting a superb education at Harvard,
TM> Stanford, Columbia, etc. Not an effort from the pumped up government
TM> organizations and ministries, filled with old and sclerotic rats, to
TM> locate and cherish such individuals and eventually use them for a higher
TM> cause. Young Bulgarians are completing their education with honors, find
TM> prestigious employers, become a part of a powerful academic, political,
TM> or business network abroad, make a name for themselves and Bulgaria is
TM> remaining oblivious to its brain treasures, without even a
TM> clue of the potentials that stand behind these people.
TM> Only a few examples: When a friend of mine, with considerable experience
TM> and an M.B.A. from the States, went to one of Bulgaria's biggest state-
TM> owned companies that deals with export (vqnshno-tqrgovsko predpriyatie)
TM> offering his services, this company's president suggested that at the
TM> moment he could only hire him as an entry-level accountant, with the lowest
TM> pay, and he would only do it as a favor, because all the executive
TM> positions were taken by the old-timers. Another friend with an advanced
TM> business degree told be that most of the private businesses in Bulgaria
TM> also don't care to have people who can make business plans, market
TM> projections, marketing strategy. Businesses over there prefer to pile up
TM> as much money as they can overnight, using whatever means the rudimentary
TM> capitalism can offer, and not think of tomorrow, or of the rest of the
TM> market, or of their own inevitable bankruptcy due to incompetence.
...
TM> I heard a story of a Bulgarian journalist with a Master's degree from the
TM> States to be offered a job of an intern at a local newspaper. :-)
...
Vsichko tova izglejda mnogo logichno i ubeditelno, samo deto T.Maneva ne si
dava smetka za obraza, koito "bulgarians abroad" (a i v@obshte chujdencite)
sa si izgradili v ochite na "bulgarians at home".
Publichniyat obraz. Nai-shiroko izvestniyat b@lgarin, v@rnal se ot zapada, e
George Ganchev. Ne iskam da obidia g-ja Maneva, no neinite dumi zvuchat tochno
kato niakoe ot izkazvaniata na velikiya buzinessman po televiziyata. Drugo
nashumialo ime e Kosio Mishev, specialist po "kontradezinformaciya" (po negovi
dumi), s@vetnik na Filip Dimitrov i kosven vinovnik za provala na
pravitelstvoto na SDS. Pier Tabakov, s@vetnik na Zelev. Ivan Stanchov, minist@r
na v@nshnite raboti v slujebnoto pravitelstvo, chieto nai-zabelejitelno
deistvie be da na pravi zam-minist@r komunista Baychev, predstavitel na pro-
ruskoto lobby u nas. Panica, koito ne znam zashto udostoi s nagrada ot svoya
fond N.Haytov, edna ot nai-reakcionnite figuri v b@lgarskata kultura dnes. I
mnogo drugi.
Eksperti. Viarno e, che:
TM>...it is not a secret that the Bulgarian saying "Koy e toy da
TM> mi dava akql!" is still prevalent in Bulgarian mentality. Somehow our
TM> nation lost the respect toward its intellectual elite....
A zashto ? Kak da ignorirame desetiletiyata, kogato doktori na naukite, docenti
i professori, zaslujili i narodni pisateli, hudojnici, artisti stavaha samo
hora, vliazli v nomenklaturata na gradski komitet na BKP ili po-visoko. Predi
vreme kazah na bashta mi, che professor e obidna duma (toi e professor) i toi,
gorkiyat, se s@glasi :-))
No da ostavim "ekspertite", udostoeni u nas. Da poglednem koi sa ekspertite,
idvashti ot zapada:
TM> I don't see why skilled Bulgarians cannot be hired as independent
TM> consultants by the Bulgarian government, while it's dealing either with
TM> Western corporations or with western aid agencies, who send their own
TM> people to different state ventures and are supposed to come up with
TM> decisions based mostly on the feed from local bureaucrats, who on the
TM> other hand are sunk in corruption and incompetence.
Mnogo prosto. Zashtoto honorarite na tezi hora idvat obiknoveno po mejdunarodni
programi - PHARE etc. I s@otvetnata organizaciya NE RAZRESHAVA da se naemat
b@lgari (zashtoto honorar@t e okolo 600 ECU na den). Kakto NE
RAZRESHAVA da se kupuvat b@lgarski stoki.
Formalno, vsichko e nared. No, kogato ti poiskat sertifikat po ISO 9001/9002 za
komputri, asemblirani u nas, se okazva, che prosto niama b@lgarska instituciya,
up@lnomoshtena da izdava takiva sertifikati. I se obr@shtash k@m predstavitel
na zapadna firma. I chakash 12-18 meseca. Osven ako ne dadesh rushvet. Mnogo
soliden. Da ne govorim, che za asemblirane se iziskva ISO 9003. Rabotil s@m s
takiva hora po niakolko programi na PHARE i s@m se otvratil.
Da poglednem sega b@lgarite - eksperti. Neshto ne se zabelyazvat (Emilcho
Koshlukov ne se broi). Nai-viden e kato che li Rumen Gechev, vice premier,
minist@r i t.n. Specializiral ne znam kakvo si po ikonomika v USA. Sipe divotii
naliavo i nadiasno. Kaje edno, sled tri meseca tochno obratnoto. Dori
s@partiicite mu veche trudno go trayat.
Razni drugi imena probliasvat kato meteoriti na nebosklona. Idvat, razmahvat
golemi proekti, iskat mnogo pari i si otivat. Samo che, tova "dai sega da
investirame $100 mlns, p@k sled 3 godini shte vidish" ni e mnogo dobre
izvestno. Po tazi magicheska formula deistvashe ikonomicheskiya ekip na Andrei
Karlovich prez 80-te. Taka biaha s@zdadeni milioneri kato Og. Doynov, bratia
Bozarovi, Bisser Dimitrov i mnogo drugi. Taka biaha natrupani kapitalite, ot
koito posle iznikna Lichtenshtein-skata firma Multigroup.
Predstaviam si direktora na v@nshno t@rgovskoto predpriyatie ot primera - idva
pri men edin mlad simpatiaga i iska da go napravia pone zam.direktor. Gledam,
ima momcheto diploma ot Harvard "magna cum laude". Bravos, kazvam, haide sega
da mi kajesh, kak shte izdeistvash kvota za iznos na agneta (ili jito,
krastavici, etc) ot Ministerstvoto na v@nshna t@rgoviya? Ami, kazva, shte
napravia obosnovka, shte predloja izgodni ceni ... Stiga, vikam mu, yasno che
ne gi razbirash neshtata. A kakvo shte napravish, kogato bankata ti zabavi
prevoda, da kajem, 9 dena ? Ne moje da b@de, vika, nali e banka, nali ima
SWIFT. Lele, mamin, mislia si, ami ti si s@vsem s mliako okolo ustata. Hubavo,
da kajem, che shte te naznacha. Shte uvolnia zam.direktora (ama niamam pravo!
Shte me os@di kato dve i dve chetiri i shte plashtam obezshtetenie) i shte te
sloja na negovo miasto. Shte ti dam negovata zaplata - celi $185! I kakvo? Ima
niakolko varianta: 1) Za 4-5 meseca shte izuchish zanayata, shte hvanesh cakata
na neshtata, shte zav@rjesh vr@zki s partniorite ni v Zanzibar, shte napravish
paralelna chastna firma i shte me ostavish s pr@st v usta. 2) Sled 3 meseca
shte ti pisne da karash s $185, shte se sv@rjesh s@s starite si poznati v
Harvard i shte si zaminesh za natam. 3) Shte me opletesh v niakakvi planove,
deto sa realizuemi samo pri amerikansko zakonodatelstvo i na b@rza r@ka shte
falirame.
Ta taka. Predlagam mu, znachi, da pochne ottam, otk@deto az s@m pochnal predi
25 godini - mladshi dihatel. A toi mi se obijda...
Ili drug primer. Hirurg. Strahoten. Super. Samo deto e sviknal da ima pet
operacionni sestri (primerno), a tuk mu davat edna (ili polovinka). I niama
sanitarki. I koncite ne sa nomer 6, a ima samo nomer 5. I niama prestilki za
ednokratno polzvane, ami triabva jena mu da gi pere u doma. I sledoperativnata
dieta ne moje da se izp@lni, shtoto niama pari za boza (da kajem). I oshte, i
oshte.... Dali da predpocheta nego, ili doktora, deto ne si e pokazval nosa
izv@n BG? A onzi, idvashtiya ot zapad, shte se oplakva kolko nezadovolitelni
usloviya za trud sa mu osigurili.
Ili journalista. Idva toi na rabota za p@rvi den i gleda: k@de mi e buroto,
k@de mi e PC-to, k@de mi e NoteBook-a, zashto niamam Internet, koga shte mi
doide Reuter, k@de mi e diktophona, kak taka da niamam pravo na mejdunarodni
telefonni razgovori, kakvo e tova neshto "limit" na xerox-a, kak moje da niama
hartiya i triabva da pisha na g@rba na stari lista i kakvo li ne oshte... Kolko
efektiven shte e?!
Ta tova, koeto iskah da kaja e, che "bulgarians abroad" moje da sa
izkliuchitelno visokokvalificirani, no p@rvo, na tiah tep@rva im predstoi da
si s@zdadat renome pred b@lgarite u nas i, vtoro, ne e mnogo sigurno, che
kvalifikaciyata im e podhodiashta za b@lgarskite uslovia.
Stana naistina mnogo d@lgo i naviarno otegchitelno.
S nai-dobri namereniya
N.Kostoff
Vladimir Alexiev
In article <5196a0ea.248.100/1....@sf.cit.bg> nkos...@sf.cit.bg (Nicolas Kostoff) writes:
[Basically that Bulgaria is in such deep shit that local Bulgarians are better
qualified to crawl in that shit than Western-educated specialists.]
Well perhaps you're right. Then please stop pleading to Bulgarians in the West
to come back and help Bulgaria get out of the shit.
But I think the smelliest shit is the one that the government creates. Take
for example Bank for Agricultural Credit (BZK). Founded by a rich Bulgarian in
Canada (sorry I forgot his name). Two years ago was the healtiest bank in
Bulgaria and almost the only one honest enough to declare 10M profit, pay 30%
taxes on it, and pay substantial dividends. The communists broke it down and
then BNB bought it for 1 lev. Certainly BZK had the potential to work as well
as your average Western bank, certainly its directors and executives weren't
of the attitude to tell a Western-educated MBA "go back, we don't need you".
The bank didn't have any internal problems. Its only problem was that it was
located in Bulgaria.
Western-educated specialists can open their own businesses and be their own
bosses and not have to struggle with the attitudes Mr Kostoff describes, but
they're not immune against the corruption and the errors of the government.
Nicolas Kostoff
Dnes e losh den za b@lgarskata demokraciya.
P@rvo, vot@t na nedoverie na pravitelstvoto na komunistite ne uspia. I ne samo,
che ne uspia, ami imashe pone 11 (edinadeset) narodni predstaviteli izv@n
kompartiyata, koito glasuvaha za Jean.
Vtoro, futbolistite pobediha. Sega 91-te procenta b@lgari, koito se interesuvat
ot futbol, shte zabraviat glad i jajda i, shtastlivi ot mimoletniya mig na
nacionalno velichie, shte prostiat na komunistite unizitelnata mizeriya, v
koyato jiveem.
Cariat si otiva sled 3 dni.
Bog da pazi B@lgaria.
To, komai, drug ne ostana :-((
N. Kostoff
Nicolas Kostoff
V. Alexiev pishe:
> Western-educated specialists can open their own businesses and be their own
> bosses and not have to struggle with the attitudes Mr Kostoff describes, but
Pravilno ! Tochno tova bi triabvalo da napraviat, a ne da ochakvat kato se
v@rnat tuk da im B@DAT DADENI visoki postove. Sled kato sa dobri specialisti,
v koeto az ne se s@mniavam, neka se dokajat s truda si.
> they're not immune against the corruption and the errors of the government.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bi triabvalo da sa. Zashtoto inache vliza v sila tv@rdenieto mi, che kolkoto i
dobri da sa, ako sa neprigodni za konkrtenite uslovia, ne struvat puknata para.
N.Kostoff
PS. Legendata Vi za Banka za Zemedelski Kredit e mnogo daleche ot istinata.
Liceto Atanas Tilev ne e onazi boja kravichka, koyato se opitaha da go
napraviat niakoi, p@k i ne e osnoval bankata.
N.K.
Kaloian Gorolomov
FROM: Kaloian Gorolomov Area # 1 ( private mail )
TO: Nicolas Kostoff Jun-14-96 3:01pm
SUBJECT: Re: A bad day for Bulgaria
On 13 Jun 96 10:00pm, Nicolas Kostoff said the following:
NK> Dnes e losh den za b@lgarskata demokraciya.
NK> P@rvo, vot@t na nedoverie na pravitelstvoto na komunistite ne uspia. I
NK> ne samo, che ne uspia, ami imashe pone 11 (edinadeset) narodni
NK> predstaviteli izv@n kompartiyata, koito glasuvaha za Jean.
Uvazhaemi g-n Kostoff. Nima si mislite, che kogato doidat sinite na wlast
wsichko shte cufne. Za men e nepriqtno da buda upravlqwan ot biwshite
komunisti, no sinite sa tolkowa tupi, che da im se dade wlasta e naprawo
opasno za stranata. Kolkoto i zhalko da e (a to e mnogo zhalko) w momenta w
Bulgariq nqma alternativa na BSP. I ako BSP uprawlqwa w momenta, towa e ne
zashtoto nqkoi mnogo gi hareswa, a zashtoto opoziciata ni ne stawa za nishto.
Naistina losho za Bulgarskata demokraciq.
NK> Bog da pazi B@lgaria.
Amin.
S uvazhenie,
Kaloian Gorolomov
---------------------------------------
Liberty cannot be established without morality,
nor morality without faith.
---------------------------------------
Kaloian Gorolomov, Kelly
kel...@sf.cit.bg
Alex Yordanov
On 8 Jun 1996, Tatiana Maneva wrote:
> (i.e. not poverty). But let's leave the financial issue aside... I have never
> witnessed any of the Bulgaria's recent governments to try to establish
> contacts with Bulgarian students abroad who study in different fields and
> eventually recruit such professionals. There has never been an effort to look
> for future capable politicians, or business executives in the students abroad,
> who are getting a superb education at Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, etc. Not an
> effort from the pumped up government organizations and ministries, filled with
> old and sclerotic rats, to locate and cherish such individuals and eventually
> use them for a higher cause. Young Bulgarians are completing their education
> with honors, find prestigious employers, become a part of a powerful
> academic, political, or business network abroad, make a name for themselves
> and Bulgaria is remaining oblivious to its brain treasures, without even a
> clue of the potentials that stand behind these people.
Let me remind that the Bulgarian government *does not* even
recognize Ph.D.s obtained in the U.S. unless you go thru a long and
humiliating procedure which somebody else already posted about two months
ago. All those "underdeveloped" countries like Japan, Germany, etc., of
course, do recognize American diplomas. However, Bulgaria seems not to
*drop* to their level...
> Moreover, pathetic media -- papers and broadcast, never showed an effort to
> attract Bulgarian young professionals who got their education in this field
> from the U.S. I heard a story of a Bulgarian journalist with a Master's
They never will. They are afraid that they will lose their jobs as better
educated people walk in.
> And lastly, it is not a secret that the Bulgarian saying "Koy e toy da mi dava
> akql!" is still prevalent in Bulgarian mentality. Somehow our nation lost
> the respect toward its intellectual elite, which was so typical during the
> years of the Bulgarian revival and the following periods. This partially
> explains the high rate of return of Bulgarian intellectuals after studying
> abroad prior to 1944.
The typical Bulgarian mentality does not stand intellectual elite. If
you don't like soccer, curse "Mama ti da e.a!" all the time or tend to
express your original views and ideas, you are out of the game. This is
why I think that Bulgaria deserves to be the way it is now. When they
learn to respect their "bests", then they will live like Europeans. Until
then - let them eat their dignity!
> As far as individual efforts are concerned, I can't wait to go to Bulgaria
> this summer! Having not been there for a long time, I can't wait to use my
> camera and reporter's notebook and make some noise as I come back here.
Keep an eye on your camera! ;-)
You will enjoy your stay, actually! There are some nice things left.
Memories...
Alex
Krassimir Gadjokov
Tuk si mnogo prav Kalojane !
karadjov
Kaloian Gorolomov (kel...@sf.cit.bg) wrote:
: FROM: Kaloian Gorolomov Area # 1 ( private mail )
: TO: Nicolas Kostoff Jun-14-96 3:01pm
: SUBJECT: Re: A bad day for Bulgaria
: On 13 Jun 96 10:00pm, Nicolas Kostoff said the following:
: NK> Dnes e losh den za b@lgarskata demokraciya.
: NK> P@rvo, vot@t na nedoverie na pravitelstvoto na komunistite ne uspia. I
: NK> ne samo, che ne uspia, ami imashe pone 11 (edinadeset) narodni
: NK> predstaviteli izv@n kompartiyata, koito glasuvaha za Jean.
: Uvazhaemi g-n Kostoff. Nima si mislite, che kogato doidat sinite na wlast
: wsichko shte cufne. Za men e nepriqtno da buda upravlqwan ot biwshite
: komunisti, no sinite sa tolkowa tupi, che da im se dade wlasta e naprawo
: opasno za stranata. Kolkoto i zhalko da e (a to e mnogo zhalko) w momenta w
: Bulgariq nqma alternativa na BSP. I ako BSP uprawlqwa w momenta, towa e ne
: zashtoto nqkoi mnogo gi hareswa, a zashtoto opoziciata ni ne stawa za nishto.
: Naistina losho za Bulgarskata demokraciq.
A te chervenite sa mnogo competentni, AHH? To zatova Shivarov idva
tuka v Canada zhito da kopuva!!! The dokato biaha sinite, takova neshto
ne se sluchi, a i po tiahno vreme banki ne faliraha.
Georgi Karadjov
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Georg Tuparev
In article <576089de.248.100/1...@sf.cit.bg> kel...@sf.cit.bg (Kaloian Gorolomov)
writes:
>
> FROM: Kaloian Gorolomov Area # 1 ( private mail )
> TO: Nicolas Kostoff Jun-14-96 3:01pm
> SUBJECT: Re: A bad day for Bulgaria
>
> On 13 Jun 96 10:00pm, Nicolas Kostoff said the following:
>
> NK> Dnes e losh den za b@lgarskata demokraciya.
>
> NK> P@rvo, vot@t na nedoverie na pravitelstvoto na komunistite ne uspia. I
> NK> ne samo, che ne uspia, ami imashe pone 11 (edinadeset) narodni
> NK> predstaviteli izv@n kompartiyata, koito glasuvaha za Jean.
>
> Uvazhaemi g-n Kostoff. Nima si mislite, che kogato doidat sinite na wlast
> wsichko shte cufne. Za men e nepriqtno da buda upravlqwan ot biwshite
> komunisti, no sinite sa tolkowa tupi, che da im se dade wlasta e naprawo
> opasno za stranata. Kolkoto i zhalko da e (a to e mnogo zhalko) w momenta w
> Bulgariq nqma alternativa na BSP. I ako BSP uprawlqwa w momenta, towa e ne
> zashtoto nqkoi mnogo gi hareswa, a zashtoto opoziciata ni ne stawa za nishto.
> Naistina losho za Bulgarskata demokraciq.
Tazi teza sqm ya tchuval tolkova pqti! BTW, ako popitate nyakoj vqsrasten
gemanec, toj ste dade sqstiya otgovor za izbora na hitler press 33-ta. Dano v
nashiya slutchaj analogiyata ne pqlna ... inatche sqvsem sme ya zakqsali.
--
Georg Tuparev
EMBL / Protein Design Phone: +49 - 6221 - 387305
Meyerhofstr. 1 FAX: +49 - 6221 - 387517
D-69117 Heidelberg
Germany
Tup...@EMBL-Heidelberg.de (NeXT-mail)
Georg Tuparev
In article <31C359...@rogidi.com> Krassimir Gadjokov <kr...@rogidi.com>
writes:
>
> Tuk si mnogo prav Kalojane !
Krastavite magareta prez devet planini se nadushvat ;-)
Kaloian Gorolomov
FROM: Kaloian Gorolomov
TO: Ivan Dimitrov Jun-16-96 1:22pm
SUBJECT: Re: A bad day for Bulgaria
Kaloian is replying to ivan who replied to Kaloian on 16 Jun 96 02:14am
id> Uvajaemi G-n Gorolomov,
id> Prochetete oshte vedn'j kakvo ste napisali!
id> Ako ne razlichavate nekad'rnici ot prest'pnici, bih jelal da Vi
id> napomnia, che fashizm't e ustanoven navsiak'de, zameniaki nekad'rnici.
id> I ako komunisticheskite prevrati navsiak'de sa bili prosto uspeshni
id> akcii na shepa teroristi, segashnoto zavr'shtane na vlast na s'shtite
id> komunisti napomnia tochno legalnoto idvane na vlast na fashizma. Tova,
id> koeto ne razbiram e zashto v cial sviat fashizm't e otrechen (a niak'de
id> prosto zabranen), a komunizm't se tolerira.
id> Demokraciata e velika, zashtoto pozvoliava na hora kato Zuganov, Zhan
id> Videnov i t.n. da s'shtestvuvat v politikata. Niakoi daje vlizat v
id> istoriata. Nadiavam se BSP da ne go napravi, zashtoto komunisti vlizat
id> v istoriata samo chrez zverstva.
id> Dve neshta v zakljuchenie:
id> 1. Izviniavam se za sravnenieto s fashizma. Smiatam, che komunizm't e
id> mnogo po-ujasen. No za izvestna kategoria hora tozi primer mai v'rvi.
id> 2. Otgovariam Vi lichno, no ako Vie reshite da mi otgovariate , mojete
id> da polzvate grupata, citiraiki moeto pismo.
id> S uvajenie: Ivan Dimitrov
Uvazhaemi g-n Dimitrov,
Pyrwo, trqbwa da se suglsq s nqkoi ot neshata, koito kazwate, naprimer s
istoricheskata sprawka. Wtoro, nqmam nikakwo namerenie da se prewrysham w
adwokat na BSP, a oshte po-malko na komunizma. Wsicko, koeto iskah da kazha,
e che nadezhdite na nqkoi hora, che SDS mozhe da oprawi stranata za
suzhalenie sa prazni. Sushtoto vazhi i za Simeon. W dejsttwitelnost nqma
neshto, koeto da mozhe da orawi neshata za edin den, kakto na nqkoi
mechtateli im se iska. A lipsata na kadurna opoziciq e edna ot tragediite
na stranata ni i wqtyr w platnata na BSP. Faktite obache sa fakti.
SDS ne mozhe nito da oprawi ikonomikata, nito da razwie demokraciqta, zastoto
makar i sini, mnogo ot liderite im imat bolshewishki razbiraniq i maniery.
Za BSP, pone wsicki znaqt kakwi sa. A SDS e prosto edna druga bolshewishka
partq, koqto se predstawq za demokratichna. Da vzemem naprimer kandidatyt na
SDS za prezident. Kato ostawim, che e grozen, toj e i prost kato guba. Oswen
towa e samowliubeno parweniu. I spored was trqbwa da glasuwam za towa lice s
nadezhdata, che toi shte donese demograciq. Ta toj dori ne znae kakwo e
demokraciq. Edinstwenoto neshto, koeto mozhe da donese e posredstwenost.
S uvazhenie,
Kaloian Gorolomov
P.S. Iskreno se nadqwam Zyuganow da zagubi izborite w Russia.
Vladimir Alexiev
> > Western-educated specialists can open their own businesses
> Pravilno ! Tochno tova bi triabvalo da napraviat, Sled kato sa dobri
> specialisti, v koeto az ne se s@mniavam, neka se dokajat s truda si.
Da, obache dyrzhavata triabva da syzdade usloviata za uspeshno syshtestvuvane
na chasten biznes. Zashtoto i naj-kadyrniat chovek ne mozhe da vyrti biznes,
ako mu se syzdavat milioni biurokratichni prechki, i ako bankata mu mozhe da
falira (ili da byde "falirana" ot pravitelstvoto) vseki den.
> > they're not immune against the corruption and the errors of the government.
> Bi triabvalo da sa.
Ako ne si gospod ili mafiot, ne mozhe da si.
> Zashtoto inache vliza v sila tv@rdenieto mi, che kolkoto i dobri da sa, ako
> sa neprigodni za konkrtenite uslovia, ne struvat puknata para.
Tova mi zvuchi kato "Vseki, kojto iska da uspee v Bulgaria, triabva da se
obyrne na svinia, zashtoto inache niama da se spravi s lajnata". Ako tova e
mnenieto Vi, togava bi triabvalo da prestanete s prizivite si "studenti,
vyrnete se v Bulgaria i napravete neshto za neia", zashtoto edna svinia mozhe
da napravi samo poveche lajna, nishto drugo. A i niakoi hora predpochitat da
si ostanat hora.
> PS. Legendata Vi za Banka za Zemedelski Kredit e mnogo daleche ot istinata.
> Liceto Atanas Tilev ne e onazi boja kravichka, koyato se opitaha da go
> napraviat niakoi, p@k i ne e osnoval bankata.
Mozhe bi. Niamam mnogo informacia za nego. Obache imam dostatychno informacia
za BZK: tia beshe edna ot naj-dobrite banki, i mozhe bi imenno zatova padna
pyrva. Ili ne ste syglasen s tova?
ivan dimitrov
G-n Gorolomov:
Ne s'm agitiral za nikogo i ne s'm Vi prizovaval da glasuvate.
Ne znaia pochti nishto za Pet'r Stoianov. No v svetovnata istoria sa
mnogo malko uchenite, intelektualcite i t.n., koito sa upravliavali,
a ne se seshtam za nito edin uspeshen tak'v politik. Az s'shto
obicham da glasuvam Za, a ne Protiv. Govoria za drugo. da ne zabraviame,
che v BG na vlast sa KOMUNISTI, koito cenzurirat televizia, radio,
otvariat lichna korespondencia, podslushvat telefonni razgovori i t.n.
Lichen izbor na vseki e da glasuva za partia, koito krade po-malko ili poveche.
Tozi izbor ne bi promenil mnogo. Kogato narod't poiska da raboti, a ne da
krade, korumpiranite politici shte si idat ot vlastta. No samo ako sa naistina
politici. Opasiavam se, che za BSP tova ne se otnasia. Posledno. Kolko
partii v BG iskat da priemat zakon za ezika, kakvo napomnia tozi zakon i
kolko dalech e priemaneto na tozi zakon ot prov'zglasiavaneto na Vashata ideia
za zakon: "Taka i taka sa nekad'rnici tia ot SDS, haide da gi zabranim,
ta da ne se ob'rka narod't da glasuva za tiah." P'k i bez tova kolko
pari se harchat za izbori, ne moje li da vnesem malko jito s tiah...
Pozdravi, Ivan Dimitrov
Kaloian Gorolomov
Kaloian is replying to karadjov who replied to All on 16 Jun 96 01:26am
k> A te chervenite sa mnogo competentni, AHH? To zatova Shivarov idva
k> tuka v Canada zhito da kopuva!!! The dokato biaha sinite, takova neshto
k> ne se sluchi, a i po tiahno vreme banki ne faliraha.
k> Georgi Karadjov
Uvazhaemi g-n Karadjov,
Bankite faliraha zashtoto se uprawlqwaha nekudyrno, s prestypna
bezotgowornost i razdawaha krediti na (kakto kazwa min. Gechev) blizki,
rodnini i priqteli. Da se poddyrzhat ot BNB takiva banki bi bilo bezumie. Oswen
towa ne byrkajte politikata na prawitelstwoto s tazi na BNB, koito sa dwe
napylno razlichni institucii.
S uwazhenie,
Kaloian Gorolomov
Kaloian Gorolomov
Kaloian is replying to Georg who replied to All on 16 Jun 96 03:53pm
GT> In article <31C359...@rogidi.com> Krassimir Gadjokov
GT> <kr...@rogidi.com> writes:
>>
>> Tuk si mnogo prav Kalojane !
GT> Krastavite magareta prez devet planini se nadushvat ;-)
Uvazhaemi g-n Tuparev,
Wie dopuskate syshata greshka kakto powecheto chuzhdenci ili bulgari w
chuzhbina. Wie si mislite, che kato zashtitavate SDS, zashtitavate
democraciqta. Towa obache ne e taka. Pyrwo, zashtoto SDS wyuobshe nqmat
democratichni ideali, nito wyobshte razbirat neshto ot demokrasiq, i Wtoro,
zashtoto SDS sa dosta sposobni s typotata si da razocharowat obshtestwoto ot
demokraciqta i da se syzdadat uslowiq za wyzrazhdane na komunizma podobno na
Russia. Treto, SDS e naj-golemiqt podaryk, kojto BSP e poluchawala ot '89
nasam. Ako wmesto tezi idioti w Bulgaria beshe suzdadena seriozna opoziciq,
sega BSP nqmashe da uprawlqwat stranata a shtqha da imat 5-10 %. Imenno zaradi
SDS BSP uprawlqwa sega.
Bylgariq se nuzhdae ot nowa opoziciq, no koj shte q syzdade?!
S uvazhenie,
Kaloian Gorolomov
Ivan Marinov
Kaloian Gorolomov wrote:
>
> Kaloian is replying to Georg who replied to All on 16 Jun 96 03:53pm
>
> GT> In article <31C359...@rogidi.com> Krassimir Gadjokov
> GT> <kr...@rogidi.com> writes:
> >>
> >> Tuk si mnogo prav Kalojane !
>
> GT> Krastavite magareta prez devet planini se nadushvat ;-)
>
> Uvazhaemi g-n Tuparev,
> Wie dopuskate syshata greshka kakto powecheto chuzhdenci ili bulgari w
> chuzhbina. Wie si mislite, che kato zashtitavate SDS, zashtitavate
> democraciqta. Towa obache ne e taka. Pyrwo, zashtoto SDS wyuobshe nqmat
> democratichni ideali, nito wyobshte razbirat neshto ot demokrasiq, i Wtoro,
> zashtoto SDS sa dosta sposobni s typotata si da razocharowat obshtestwoto ot
> demokraciqta i da se syzdadat uslowiq za wyzrazhdane na komunizma podobno na
> Russia. Treto, SDS e naj-golemiqt podaryk, kojto BSP e poluchawala ot '89
> nasam.
Mnogo e wqrno!
Ako wmesto tezi idioti w Bulgaria beshe suzdadena seriozna opoziciq,
> sega BSP nqmashe da uprawlqwat stranata a shtqha da imat 5-10 %. Imenno zaradi
> SDS BSP uprawlqwa sega.
> Bylgariq se nuzhdae ot nowa opoziciq, no koj shte q syzdade?!
>
> S uvazhenie,
> Kaloian Gorolomov
--
Ivan
---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---
max...@mbox.digsys.bg
mval...@sf.cit.bg
int...@ibm.net
---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
and separately, in each country, each government, each
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Jesus)
---
WARNING! Flames in my mailbox are subject to a fee of one
million US Dollars for processing. The act of e-mailing
constitutes acceptance to these terms.
---
Georg Tuparev
In article <5763e738.248.100/1...@sf.cit.bg> kel...@sf.cit.bg (Kaloian Gorolomov)
writes:
>
> Kaloian is replying to Georg who replied to All on 16 Jun 96 03:53pm
>
> GT> In article <31C359...@rogidi.com> Krassimir Gadjokov
> GT> <kr...@rogidi.com> writes:
> >>
> >> Tuk si mnogo prav Kalojane !
>
> GT> Krastavite magareta prez devet planini se nadushvat ;-)
>
> Uvazhaemi g-n Tuparev,
> Wie dopuskate syshata greshka kakto powecheto chuzhdenci ili bulgari w
> chuzhbina. Wie si mislite, che kato zashtitavate SDS, zashtitavate
> democraciqta. Towa obache ne e taka. Pyrwo, zashtoto SDS wyuobshe nqmat
> democratichni ideali, nito wyobshte razbirat neshto ot demokrasiq, i Wtoro,
> zashtoto SDS sa dosta sposobni s typotata si da razocharowat obshtestwoto ot
> demokraciqta i da se syzdadat uslowiq za wyzrazhdane na komunizma podobno na
> Russia. Treto, SDS e naj-golemiqt podaryk, kojto BSP e poluchawala ot '89
zaradi
> SDS BSP uprawlqwa sega.
> Bylgariq se nuzhdae ot nowa opoziciq, no koj shte q syzdade?!
Mozhe da sqm bulgarin v tchuzhbina i da ne znam imanata na vsitcki bqlgarski
politici naizust, no kato bulgarin v tchuzhbina imam veroytno nmogo po-dobra
predstava za znatchenieto i sqdqrzhanieto na dumata "demokraciya" i tvqrdy,
tche ne zhungliram s ney (kakto tova e prisqsto na preboyadisanite
otwrati-komunygi), a vlagam v ney prisqstoto na svobodomislest i s shirok
mirogled intelektualec smisql, izgraden na stabilnata osnova na sistema ot
moralni cennosti. V tozi smisql imam pravoto da tvqrdy, tche vie dopuskate
grashka, kato govorite za nesto koeto ne razbirate. No poslednoto izyvlenie ne
go generaliziram "za povetcheto bqlgarski bqlgari", a go otnasym kqm krastavite
magareta, rozovite praseta, kafyvite orleta i ostanalite predstaviteli
zanzibarskata fauna.
Nikoga ne sqm tvqrdyal tche SDS e cvete za mirisane. No da se izbira BSP e
prestqplenie, zastoto:
- tova e novoto ime na partiy, doshla na vlast tchres nezakon prevrat, i koyato
e uprazhnyvala (i uprazhnyva) teror i bessakonie prez poslednite 50 godini;
- zastoto ikonomitcheskoto polozhenie na stranata e takova, kakvoto e dnes,
blagodarenie na tazi partiy;
- zastoto BSP e nedemokratitchna partiy (v povecheto demokratichni strani ty bi
bila izvqn zakona!);
Ne znam vasheto razbirane za zakonnost (veroytno takova ne sqstestvuva), no vqv
vsitcki demokratitchni strani, podkrepyneto na bezzakonie se smyta za
prestqplenie, i se tretira juriditcheski kato takova. S drugi dumi, ako doidat
v zapadna evropa ili USA, tchlenovete na BSP barabar petko s tehnite izbirateli
ste vlesat tam kqdeto im e mystoto, siretch, v drqngolnika.
Tolkova za tasi lekziya...
Georg Tuparev
In article <5763e760.248.100/1...@sf.cit.bg> kel...@sf.cit.bg (Kaloian Gorolomov)
writes:
>
>
>
> k> A te chervenite sa mnogo competentni, AHH? To zatova Shivarov idva
> k> tuka v Canada zhito da kopuva!!! The dokato biaha sinite, takova neshto
> k> ne se sluchi, a i po tiahno vreme banki ne faliraha.
>
> k> Georgi Karadjov
>
> Uvazhaemi g-n Karadjov,
>
> Bankite faliraha zashtoto se uprawlqwaha nekudyrno, s prestypna
> bezotgowornost i razdawaha krediti na (kakto kazwa min. Gechev) blizki,
> rodnini i priqteli.
ROTFL! A ne zabravi li min. Gechev da kazhe kakqv cvyt imaha tezi blizki,
rodnini i priyteli? Ta koj stana "banker"?
> Da se poddyrzhat ot BNB takiva banki bi bilo bezumie. Oswen
> towa ne byrkajte politikata na prawitelstwoto s tazi na BNB, koito sa dwe
> napylno razlichni institucii.
Slava Bogu. I oste povetche slava Bogu tche Tatartchev oste dqrzhi vqrhovniy
sqd!
Penka Stoyanova
kel...@sf.cit.bg (Kaloian Gorolomov) wrote:
>
> Uvazhaemi g-n Karadjov,
>
> Bankite faliraha zashtoto se uprawlqwaha nekudyrno, s prestypna
> bezotgowornost i razdawaha krediti na (kakto kazwa min. Gechev) blizki,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>bezumie. Oswen
Nekadyrnoto upravlenie na bankite e samo _edna_ ot prichinite za
falitite na bankite ni. BNB prodylzhava da poddyrzha drugi banki, koito
ne sa v po-dobro systojanie ot tezi na koito im be _nalozheno_ da
falirat. Pravitelstvoto naredi na bankite da poemat loshite krediti, a
sega se razporezhda koi banki da falirat i koi ne. Tova e podigravka s
bankovata systema, dragi mi gospodine.
> towa ne byrkajte politikata na prawitelstwoto s tazi na BNB, koito sa dwe
> napylno razlichni institucii.
Tuk napylno greshite. Uvi, bylgarskoto pravitelstvo reshava "politikata"
na nashite banki, zatova bankovata ni systema e na tova deredzhe.
>
>S uwazhenie,
>Kaloian Gorolomov
>
Sys zdrave,
Penka
Vladimir Alexiev
> KOMUNISTI, koito cenzurirat televizia, radio, otvariat lichna
> korespondencia, podslushvat telefonni razgovori
Minalata godina govorih lichno s edno momiche, koeto raboti kato cenzor.
Rabotata mu e da chete vsichki mezhdunarodni pisma, i da vika po-visokoto
nachalstvo, ako ima neshto podozritelno.
Jeliazkov Vedrine
In article <5763e760.248.100/1...@sf.cit.bg>, kel...@sf.cit.bg (Kaloian Gorolomov) writes:
>
> Kaloian is replying to karadjov who replied to All on 16 Jun 96 01:26am
>
>
> k> A te chervenite sa mnogo competentni, AHH? To zatova Shivarov idva
> k> tuka v Canada zhito da kopuva!!! The dokato biaha sinite, takova neshto
> k> ne se sluchi, a i po tiahno vreme banki ne faliraha.
>
> k> Georgi Karadjov
>
>
> Bankite faliraha zashtoto se uprawlqwaha nekudyrno, s prestypna
> bezotgowornost i razdawaha krediti na (kakto kazwa min. Gechev) blizki,
> towa ne byrkajte politikata na prawitelstwoto s tazi na BNB, koito sa dwe
> napylno razlichni institucii.
>
> Kaloian Gorolomov
>
>
G-n Gorolomov,
Izpadate v protivorechie s predishni vashi tvqrdenia. Kazvate che bankite
falirali zashtoto sa upravliavani nekadqrno. Da priemem che e taka, makar che
az i s tova ne sqm sqglasen.
Vqv vasha predishna statia kazahte che predpochitate upravlenieto na BSP, zashtoto vsichki ostanali sa po-nekadqrni ot tiah.
Molia vi, komentiraite v takqv sluchai obstoiatelstvoto che na poslednite
izbori za mestni organi na vlastta, BSP izdigna kandidaturata za kmet na Sofia na shefa na Pqrva Chastna Banka, koiato vposledstvie falira zashtoto e bila nekadqrno upravliavana, kakto samia vie tvqrdite.
Mislia che kliucha za tragediata na Bqlgaria ne e v nekadqrnostta na upravliavashtite, a po-skoro v tehnite celi, koito za sqjalenie sa tvqrde razlichni ot obshtestveno poleznite. Upravliavashtite v momenta komunisti
deistvitelno sa dosta kadqrni v rabotata za postigane na svoite LICHNI I
PRIATELSKI interesi. Za sqjalenie tezi interesi vodiat Bqlgaria kqm tejki
i vse po-tejki vremena. Tova stava ochevidno za vse poveche misleshti hora i
neminuemo shte dovede do RAZRIV. Jalko che tolkova bavno i mqchitelno e probujdaneto, no vajnoto e che to nablijava!
"Kadqrnostta" ne e obektivna miarka za politicheski kachestva. Dokazatelstvo
za tova e che v momenta sme upravliavani ot nai-kadqrnia kaimak na Komsomola
- sinonim na nasilie, bezochie, bezsramie, licemernost, karierizqm, alchnost
i nai-strashnoto - BEZDUHOVNOST.
Koito podkrepia BSP, podkrepia vsichki razboinichestva vqrsheni ot komunistite
ne samo v minaloto, no i sega. Viarno, mnogo kadqrni razboinici - napravo
nai-kadqrnite. Po delata im shte gi poznaete...
Nezavisimo ot motivite koito se iztqkvat za podkrepata za BSP, istinata e
che tia e ili sqznatelna ili po zablujdenie. Ako e sqznatelna - znachi i vie
ste razboinik kato tiah, samo che ne tolkova kadqren razboinik - ako li pqk e nesqznatelna, togava ne e zle da se popitate - ami kqde ostavat moralnite
cennosti, dobroto vqzpitanie, obnoskite, vqzpitanieto?
Iasno se vidia prez poslednite 3 sedmitsi, che ogromnata chast ot bqlgarskia
narod umee da razlichi ISTINSKOTO ot FALSHIVOTO. Dostatqchno e da sravnite
posreshtaneto na Tsar Simeon II Tqrnovski, v koito i da e ot gradovete i selata,
koito poseti, s tova na Jan Videnov vqv KOMUNISTICHESKA (ujkim) Vratsa.
S viara v probujdaneto na zdravia bqlgarski duh i razum,
-= Vedrin =-
karadjov
Kaloian Gorolomov (kel...@sf.cit.bg) wrote:
: Kaloian is replying to karadjov who replied to All on 16 Jun 96 01:26am
: k> A te chervenite sa mnogo competentni, AHH? To zatova Shivarov idva
: k> tuka v Canada zhito da kopuva!!! The dokato biaha sinite, takova neshto
: k> ne se sluchi, a i po tiahno vreme banki ne faliraha.
: k> Georgi Karadjov
: Uvazhaemi g-n Karadjov,
: Bankite faliraha zashtoto se uprawlqwaha nekudyrno, s prestypna
: bezotgowornost i razdawaha krediti na (kakto kazwa min. Gechev) blizki,
: rodnini i priqteli. Da se poddyrzhat ot BNB takiva banki bi bilo bezumie. Oswen
: towa ne byrkajte politikata na prawitelstwoto s tazi na BNB, koito sa dwe
: napylno razlichni institucii.
The mozhe i da sa razlichni institutsii v tsivilizovanite drzhavi, no
v Blgaria taia razlika ne sashtestvuva. Situatsiata v koiato sa se
okazali bankite e priko svrzana s upadaka na ecomiakata, i neuspeha ili
neka kazhem nezhelanieto na communistite da sazdadat pravozakonna osnova
za razvitie na ecomicata.
A i drugo neshto - dazhe i da predpolozhim, hipotetichno, che BSP-to ne
e vinovno za bankite, to the sa edinstvenite vinovnitsi za fiaskoto s
zrnoto - vsichko tova be izvrsheno s lichni pachalbi na um, a naroda da
mu misly. Ako mnogo znaiat. shte cupim zhito s tehnite danchni pari, a
pa mir shte ima, i nashte jobove shte sa plni. S takova pravitelstvo,
nie sme dosta na pred po ptia k'm dnoto.
Georgi Karadjov
: S uwazhenie,
: Kaloian Gorolomov
---------------------------------------------------------------------
: Internet Direct. Realms of Despair! :
: (416)233-2999, 1000 lines telnet realms.game.org 4000 :
: T3 bandwidth, 9600-33,600bps+ISDN Endless medieval enjoyment! :
Nicolas Kostoff
vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca (Vladimir Alexiev) pishe:
> ... dyrzhavata triabva da syzdade usloviata za uspeshno syshtestvuvane
> na chasten biznes. Zashtoto i naj-kadyrniat chovek ne mozhe da vyrti biznes,
> ako mu se syzdavat milioni biurokratichni prechki, i ako bankata mu mozhe da
> falira (ili da byde "falirana" ot pravitelstvoto) vseki den.
Tazi interpretaciya si e chista proba komunisticheska ikonomika. D@rjavata,
vidite li, e opredeliyashtiya faktor. Tia razreshava, pozvoliava, osiguriava i
t.n. i t.p. Ega ti biznesa, s izvinenie. Predi malko poveche ot 200 godini
t.nar. treto s@slovie napravi frenskata revoliuciya. Kakvo li bi stanalo, ako
burgeois-ta biaha sednali da chakat niakoi da im s@zdade d@rjava, koyato da
stimulira biznesa ;-))
VA>>> they're not immune against the corruption and the errors of the governmen
t.
NK>> Bi triabvalo da sa. Zashtoto inache vliza v sila tv@rdenieto mi, che
NK>> kolkoto i dobri da sa, ako sa neprigodni za konkrtenite uslovia, ne
NK>>struvat puknata para.
> Tova mi zvuchi kato "Vseki, kojto iska da uspee v Bulgaria, triabva da se
> obyrne na svinia, zashtoto inache niama da se spravi s lajnata". Ako tova e
> mnenieto Vi, togava bi triabvalo da prestanete s prizivite si "studenti,
> vyrnete se v Bulgaria i napravete neshto za neia", zashtoto edna svinia mozh
e
> da napravi samo poveche lajna, nishto drugo. A i niakoi hora predpochitat da
> si ostanat hora.
Vladimire,
Ne shte se boria s@s svinsko-fekalnata dominanta v@v Vasheto pods@znanie -
ochevidno ste zapazil silna emocionalna priv@rzanost k@m rodniya si
"environment". Vinagi s@m bil (kakto pravilno ste zabeliazal) samo chovek i
niamam Vashiya jiteiski opit v goreposochenata oblast.
Prikliuchvam ot svoya strana spora s avtocitat na niakolko reda ot
p@rvonachalnoto si pismo:
--------------- cut
Ta tova, koeto iskah da kaja e, che "bulgarians abroad" moje da sa
izkliuchitelno visokokvalificirani, no p@rvo, na tiah tep@rva im predstoi da
si s@zdadat renome pred b@lgarite u nas i, vtoro, ne e mnogo sigurno, che
kvalifikaciyata im e podhodiashta za b@lgarskite uslovia.
--------------- cut
S koeto iskah da ob@rna vnimanie na uchashtite v chujbina, che ne mogat da
ochakvat kato se v@rnat v BG da gi napraviat vednaga nachalnici (stori mi se,
che imashe takova ochakvane v postinga na T.Maneva).
B@dete zdrav i stoite dalech ot B@lgaria. Z@rnenata kriza dovede do masovo
klane na gruhtiashtite ni priyateli :-))
N.Kostoff
Kaloian Gorolomov
FROM: Kaloian Gorolomov
TO: Ivan Dimitrov Jun-19-96 12:21pm
SUBJECT: Re: A bad day for Bulgaria
Kaloian is replying to ivan who replied to All on 17 Jun 96 01:51am
id> G-n Gorolomov:
id> Ne s'm agitiral za nikogo i ne s'm Vi prizovaval da glasuvate.
id> Ne znaia pochti nishto za Pet'r Stoianov. No v svetovnata istoria sa
id> mnogo malko uchenite, intelektualcite i t.n., koito sa upravliavali,
id> a ne se seshtam za nito edin uspeshen tak'v politik. Az s'shto
id> obicham da glasuvam Za, a ne Protiv. Govoria za drugo. da ne zabraviame,
id> che v BG na vlast sa KOMUNISTI, koito cenzurirat televizia, radio,
id> otvariat lichna korespondencia, podslushvat telefonni razgovori i t.n.
id> Lichen izbor na vseki e da glasuva za partia, koito krade po-malko ili
id> poveche. Tozi izbor ne bi promenil mnogo. Kogato narod't poiska da
id> raboti, a ne da krade, korumpiranite politici shte si idat ot vlastta.
id> No samo ako sa naistina politici. Opasiavam se, che za BSP tova ne se
id> otnasia. Posledno. Kolko partii v BG iskat da priemat zakon za ezika,
id> kakvo napomnia tozi zakon i kolko dalech e priemaneto na tozi zakon ot
id> prov'zglasiavaneto na Vashata ideia za zakon: "Taka i taka sa
id> nekad'rnici tia ot SDS, haide da gi zabranim, ta da ne se ob'rka
id> narod't da glasuva za tiah." P'k i bez tova kolko pari se harchat za
id> izbori, ne moje li da vnesem malko jito s tiah...
id> Pozdravi, Ivan Dimitrov
Uvazhaemi g-n Dimitrov,
Nqmam kakwo powehe da wi kazha. Weche izpisah 4 postinga po tazi tema a i
drugi pisaha, taka che q smqtam za izcherpana. Iskam samo da dobawq, che i az
ne agitiram za nikogo, nito rabotq za nqkoq partiq, nito imam zhelanie da
rabotq za koqto i de e ot sega syshtestwuwashtite takiwa. Prosto iskah da
izkazhe mnenieto si po wypros, po kojto smqtam w obshtestwoto w Bulgaria i
osobeno w chuzhbina cary nerazbirane.
S uvazhenie,
Kaloian Gorolomov
Luben Boyanov
Kaloian Gorolomov wrote:
[del]
> rabotq za koqto i de e ot sega syshtestwuwashtite takiwa. Prosto iskah da
> izkazhe mnenieto si po wypros, po kojto smqtam w obshtestwoto w Bulgaria i
> osobeno w chuzhbina cary nerazbirane.
Razbiraneto e vupros na sobstveno vijdane, i porodeno ot razlichni
faktori - vuzgledi, poznaniq za obstestvoto i istoriqta na tova
obstestvo, etc. Trudno moje da se deklarira nesto kato "cari
nerazbirane", makar che ako daden individ ima dostatuchno fakti, koito sa
neizvestni na drugite, moje bi tozi individ ima osnovaniq za podobni
izqvleniq.
Mejdu drugoto koi tochno puskashe partiinite stihcheta v s.c.b. - nqkolko
dena ne uspqh da cheta grupata, no po nesto mi se stori, che otnovo e
bila predlagana poeziq, svurzana s edinstveniq totalitaren stroi v
Bulgaria.
Pozdravi,
Luben
Tatiana Maneva
Nicolas Kostoff (nkos...@sf.cit.bg) wrote:
--------------- cut
>Ta tova, koeto iskah da kaja e, che "bulgarians abroad" moje da sa
>izkliuchitelno visokokvalificirani, no p@rvo, na tiah tep@rva im predstoi da
>si s@zdadat renome pred b@lgarite u nas i, vtoro, ne e mnogo sigurno, che
>kvalifikaciyata im e podhodiashta za b@lgarskite uslovia.
--------------- cut
Otnosno pqrvata chast na Vasheto izkazvane: Bi mi bilo lyubopitno kakvo e
Vasheto razbirane otnosno sqzdavaneto na tova renome na imigrantite pred
bqlgarite v Bulgaria. Vie kato takqv dobqr pozanavach na bqlgarskite uslovia
mozhe bi shte spodelite kak tiya obrazovani hora v chuzhbina tryabva da
pechelyat renome v Bulgaria. Kakvi sa Vi konkretnite predlozheniya?
(And if you are comfortable with yourself, perhaps you would agree to put your
words on record and give me an official interview for an article I am writing
for an American magazine. My piece would touch exactly on the issue of
Bulgarians abroad and the attitude toward them, expressed by their compatriots
at home. As far as I understand, you work at some kind of a Ministry in
Bulgaria, i.e. you can be considered a legitimate authority. So, let me know
whether you want to be quoted on paper.)
Vtorata chast na Vasheto izkazvane za sqzhalenie mi izglezhda dosta
neizdqrzhana. Kak reshihte che kvalifikaciyata na bqlgarite v chuzhbina ne
mozhe da se prilozhi pri bqlgarskite usloviya. Nali horata (ako im se dade
chance) sqzdavat i promenyat usloviyata a ne obratnoto. Vie izglezhda taka
ste se vlyubili v beznadezhnoto statukovo na Bulgaria, che izklyuchvate
vsyakakva vqzmozhnost to da se promeni ot hora, koiito imat opit i znanie za
po-smisleno statukovo ot bqlgarskoto. Izglezhdate mi sqshto mnogo uplashen da
ne bi hora ot vqn da vlyzat i da Vi obqrkat sveta, v koyto vseki e sviknal s
misqlta che neshtata nyama da stanat, che politicite sa nekadqrni, che pari
nyama, che rabotata stava samo ako ima vrqzki, rushveti, bezotchetnost,
benakazanost i t.n.
Sqshto v otgovora si na g-n Alexiev, Vie pishite che dqrzhavata ne tyabva da
se namesva v golemiya business. Tova e izkazvane, koeto ni vrqshta vqv
vremeto na diviya zapad. Nali razvitiyat kapitalizqm se nauchi kak s
opredeleni dqrzhavni regulacii da ilimimira ikonomicheski srivove, kak da
kontrolira monopolite, kak da se bori sreshtu biznesi koiito praktikuvat
fraud, koiito ne plashtat danqci, koiito sa neplatezhosposobni, koiito
predstavlyavat zaplaha za prirodnata sreda i zdraveto na horata, i t.n. V
Amerika to sa zakoni, ministerstva, komisii, podkomisii, orgaizacii, fondacii
i kakvo li ne oshte. Che nali ako dqrzhavata ne kontrolira razumno vseki shte
si pravi kakvoto iska--kakto vqv Bulgaria. Prodadohte si vsichkoto zhito na
visoki ceni i ostavihte naroda bez hlyab. Posle se chudim shto celya svyat ni
se smee kato vnasyame zhito ot Rumqnia i India, za da ima s kakvo da si
choplim salatata. Shto Amerika ne si prodade cyalata rekolta na visoki ceni,
kogato i ottqrva, i se napqlni s pari za edin den, ah? Ami shtoto nyakoy tuka
vizhda po-daleche ot nosa si i gleda da predotvrashtava podobni
proizvoli. Vie predpolagam si spomnyate che kogato podskochiha cenite na
benzina v Statite predi nyakolko sednimici, tova se prevqrna vqv vqpros
razglezhdan na pravitelstveno ravnishte, sqs sqotventni planove za itervencia
ot strana na dqrzhvata.
Zashto nay-golyamata amerikanska banka -Federal Reserve- koyato e dqrzhavna,
kontrolira lihvenite procenti na bankite v stranata? Ami za da se predpazvat
spestyavaniyata na horata i busnesite, shtoto tuka se nauchiha ot vremeto na
depresiyata che "the domino effect" na falirashti banki mozhe da nastqpi za
edna nosht.
>S koeto iskah da ob@rna vnimanie na uchashtite v chujbina, che ne mogat da
>ochakvat kato se v@rnat v BG da gi napraviat vednaga nachalnici (stori mi se,
>che imashe takova ochakvane v postinga na T.Maneva).
Eh, tuka e problemqt v narodo-psihologiyata ni -- za tova che po-dobre e da
sqm padnal v kochinata ama da ne iskam akql kak da izlyaza, shtoto yavno sam
shte mi e trudno. Ot druga strana, nay-obcham nyakoy da mi podhvqrlya
podayaniya, za da ne umra ot glad dokato si zhiveya v kochinata.
G-n Kostov, navremeto naistina obrazovanite v chuzhbina "sa gi pravili
nachalnici v Bulgaira." Taka che bezpochvenata arogantnost na sqnarodnicite
ni v Bulgaria kqm horata obrazovali se v civilizovana chuzhbina, shte kostva
na stranata ni dosta skqpo. I neka da Vi uverya che ot podobno otnoshenie ne
gubyat emigrantite. :-))
>B@dete zdrav i stoite dalech ot B@lgaria. Z@rnenata kriza dovede do masovo
>klane na gruhtiashtite ni priyateli :-))
Da de, kuponqt kakto vinagi teche
Sqs Zagrizhenost,
Tatiana
>N.Kostoff
Vladimir Alexiev
> > ... dyrzhavata triabva da syzdade usloviata za uspeshno syshtestvuvane
> > na chasten biznes.
> Tazi interpretaciya si e chista proba komunisticheska ikonomika.
> D@rjavata, vidite li, e opredeliyashtiya faktor.
Ami razbira se. Ti naprimer bi li si postroil kyshta na vyrha na planinata?
Ne, zashtoto niama tok, voda i pytushta. Ako v moeto izkazvane zamenia
"usloviata" s "infrastrukturata", shte se syglasish li? Osven tok, voda i
pytishta, biznesyt iziskva zakoni, bankova sistema i neprikosnovenost na
chastnata sobstvenost.
> Tia razreshava, pozvoliava,
A koj drug?
> osiguriava
V USA vlogovete vyv vsichki banki sa garantirani ot FDIC, koeto se
finansira ot Federalnia Reserv. V Bulgaria dyrzhavata sysipva bani i posle
gi kupuva za 1 lev.
> .. frenskata revoliuciya. Kakvo li bi stanalo, ako burgeois-ta biaha
> sednali da chakat niakoi da im s@zdade d@rjava, koyato da stimulira
> biznesa
Edinstveniat nachin chastno lice da si osiguri usloviata, koito az smiatam
za prerogativ i zadylzhenie na dyrzhavata, e da se vyoryzhi i da izleze na
ulicata (ili v gorata). Ne ti triabva um i obrazovanie, triabva ti
pistolet. Analogiata s frenskata revoliucia e udachna, ama az ne znaeh, che
si ekstremist :-)
> Vladimire,
> Ne shte se boria s@s svinsko-fekalnata dominanta v@v Vasheto pods@znanie -
> ochevidno ste zapazil silna emocionalna priv@rzanost k@m rodniya si
> "environment".
E hajde, niama nuzhda ot lichni napadki sega. I ako shte mi govorish na
Vie, togava se obryshtaj i po familno ime ;-)
> B@dete zdrav i stoite dalech ot B@lgaria.
Az specialno shte se vryshtam. Nyc.
Pozdravi, Vlado
Penio Penev
On 18 Jun 96 17:29:59 UTC karadjov (gkar...@idirect.com) wrote:
| Situatsiata v koiato sa se
| okazali bankite e priko svrzana s upadaka na ecomiakata,
Dryn-dryn, ta pljas. Situacijata, v kojato sa sa okazali "bankite" e
prjako svyrzana s loshite "zaemi", koito bankerite-chengeta si
samorazdadoha pod masata.
| i neuspeha ili
| neka kazhem nezhelanieto na communistite da sazdadat pravozakonna osnova
| za razvitie na ecomicata.
Tuk ste mnogo prav. Prjakata prichina Bylgarite da postradat ot
"falitite" na "bankite" e, che njamat pravo da si dyrzhat parite v
Citbank i CHASE/Chemical.
| A i drugo neshto - dazhe i da predpolozhim, hipotetichno, che BSP-to ne
| e vinovno za bankite,
Nikakva takava hipoteza ne mozhe da ni mine prez uma, zashoto te a)
zabranjavat na naroda da si dyrzhi parite tam, kydeto e sigurno da si
gi dyrzhi i b) se samonaznachiha za "bankeri" i si samorazdadoha parite.
| to the sa edinstvenite vinovnitsi za fiaskoto s
| zrnoto -
Da, zashtoto vzeha zemjata, postrojkite, inventara, zhivotnite i
semeto na seljanite, i se oslushvat i ne shat da im gi vyrnat.
--
Penio Penev <Pe...@pisa.Rockefeller.edu> 1-212-327-7423
Vladimir Alexiev
> dqrzhavata ne tyabva da se namesva v golemiya business. Tova e izkazvane,
> koeto ni vrqshta vqv vremeto na diviya zapad.
Ima nqkoi syshtestveni razliki: po vremeto na Divia Zapad dyrzhavata ne e
sybirala 50% danyk; vseki e bil vyoryzhen (zakonno), za da mozhe da
zashtitava pravata si; tova e bilo vreme na ekspanzia, a ne na upadyk.
> Zashto nay-golyamata amerikanska banka -Federal Reserve- koyato e dqrzhavna,
> kontrolira lihvenite procenti na bankite v stranata?
No syshto i garantira vsichki spestiavania chrez FDIC.
> navremeto naistina obrazovanite v chuzhbina "sa gi pravili nachalnici v
> Bulgaira."
Da ostavim tova nastrana. Vyprosyt e, kakva rabota bi poluchil niakoj
toku-shto zavyrshil PhD v niakoia zapadna firma. Bi triabvalo v Bulgaria
toj da mozhe da poluchi syotvetna po rang rabota (ne govoria za
zaplashtane, zashtoto e isano, che ne mozhe da poluchi syshtoto
zaplashtane).
Nicolas Kostoff
T. Maneva pishe:
> Nicolas Kostoff (nkos...@sf.cit.bg) wrote:
> --------------- cut
>>Ta tova, koeto iskah da kaja e, che "bulgarians abroad" moje da sa
>>izkliuchitelno visokokvalificirani, no p@rvo, na tiah tep@rva im predstoi da
>>si s@zdadat renome pred b@lgarite u nas i, vtoro, ne e mnogo sigurno, che
>>kvalifikaciyata im e podhodiashta za b@lgarskite uslovia.
> --------------- cut
> Otnosno pqrvata chast na Vasheto izkazvane: Bi mi bilo lyubopitno kakvo e
> Vasheto razbirane otnosno sqzdavaneto na tova renome na imigrantite pred
> bqlgarite v Bulgaria. Vie kato takqv dobqr pozanavach na bqlgarskite uslovi
a
> mozhe bi shte spodelite kak tiya obrazovani hora v chuzhbina tryabva da
> pechelyat renome v Bulgaria. Kakvi sa Vi konkretnite predlozheniya?
Pismoto Vi me kara da mislya, che e mnogo v@zmojno da ne ste prochela
vnimatelno moeto ili da presledvate niakakva provokativna cel. Shte ignoriram
tezi svoi podozreniya i shte se opitam da otgovorya. Ot niakolko meseca ne
rabotia v miniterstvo, taka che edva li s@m interesen za citirane. Ako, vse pak,
jelaete, mojete da me citirate pri uslovie, che niama da poluchite materialna
izgoda ot izpolzuvaneto na moite dumi
Pitate, kakvo stava s renometo na emigrantite. (Iskam DEBELO DA PODCHERTAYA,
CHE SHTE KOMENTIRAM EMIGRANTITE, A NE STUDENTI ILI DRUGI VREMENNO
PREBIVAVASHTI. Estestveno, nama absoliutni pravila, taka che tova, koeto pisha,
se otnasia do STATISTICHESKI NAI_VEROYATNIYA EMIGRANT, A NE DO VSICHKI. Aman ot
ugovorki, no s.c.b. b@ka ot bukvoedi, specialisti po citati izv@n konteksta i
t.n.).
Edin fakt: predi 6-7 godini emigrantite biaha mnogo dobre prieti v B@lgaria. Na
tiah gledaha s dobro oko, ot tiah ochakvaha s@vet, s@deistvie, aktivno uchastie
v procesa na transformaciya na B@lgaria. Dnes na tiah se gleda po-skoro s
nedoverie i nepriyaz@n. Kakva e razlikata mejdu 89-a i 96-a?
- prez 89-a emigrantite biaha nepoznati. Te si jiveeha neide tam dalech i biaha
obviti s oreola na "polit"-emigrantstvoto. Prez 96-a veche biahme vidiali
otblizo dostat@chno mnogo ot tiah (vij prednoto mi pismo po temata) - oreol@t
izchezna, nadejdata izgasna.
- prez 89-91 se naplodiha mnogo novi emigranti ot chisto ikonomicheski tip,
koito v moralno-etichen plan sa mnogo dalech ot privlekatelnost (za tova shte
pisha po-nadolu).
- za tezi godini emigrantite dokazaha, che ne gi e grija nito za B@lgaria, nito
za b@lgarite.
S kakvo me vpechatlyava tipichniya emigrant ? Da vzemem primer ot pisheshtite v
s.c.b. - predi vsichko s otkaza da vidi kakvoto i da bilo polojitelno v
B@lgaria i b@lgarite, s@s sistematichno ohulvane i opliuvane na vsichko, koeto
e ostavil v rodinata si, stigashto do nedvusmisleni proyavi na omraza k@m neya.
Tazi liniya na povedenie e harakterna za horata s kompleksi na osnova
proizhod (niakoi go narichat provincialen kompleks). Ako se zamislim nad
liubimata na mnogo emigranti asociaciya za BG - "kochinata", se nalaga
shvashtaneto, che tova sa hora, zataili d@lboko v sebe si sram ot rodnoto si
miasto, hora, koito napuskaiki "kochinata", sa zapazili svinskoto v sebe si.
Kogato se vr@shtat v BG, te trudno mogat da prikriyat parveniushkoto prezrenie
k@m ostanalite "neudachnici". S@shtevremenno te samite s@znavat, a i na
okolnite e predelno yasno, che prev@zhodstvoto na emigranta pred blizki,
priyateli, kolegi e (pochti) edinstveno v po-debeliya portfeil. (I zatova nikak
ne e sluchaino, che mnogo malko ot emigrantite si priznaha "az s@m
ikonomicheski", kogato sporihme na tazi tema predi dva meseca.)
Zashto li kogato niakoi se opita da kaje neshto polojitelno za B@lgaria,
vednaga biva zatrupan s obvineniya v komuniz@m i s@s svinski asociacii ?! Predi
vreme publikuvah moite obiasneniya na tova povedenie na emigrantite, taka che
niama sega da se povtariam.
Spored men ima mnogo obshti cherti mejdu tipichniya ikonomicheski emigrant i
preuspiavashtiya self-made novobogatash: i ediniyat i drugiyat sa avantiuristi,
ne stradat ot izlishni skrupuli, ne se zatrudniavat s moralni kategorii, imat
sravnitelno ogranichen umstven bagaj i mirogled, egoisti sa. Eto kakvo pisa
naskoro Vladimir Alexiev:
> Third, sometimes Bulgarians do nasty things to each other. For example, a
> family was expulsed from here because someone told the police they worked
> illegally. We're pretty sure it was Bulgarians who reported them, most
> probably other illegal workers.
S edna duma - konkurenciya...
Za poslednite 5-6 godini horata u nas se ot@rsiha ot redica iliuzii - mejdu
tiah beshe legendata za "chestniya chastnik" i "dobronamereniya vuicho ot
Amerika".
Imam vpechatlenieto, che b@lgarskite emigranti sa nai-lesno naturalizirashtite
se. S@shtevremenno te sa kato che li nai-malko sklonni da s@zdavat lokalni
obshtestva na etnicheska (b@lgarska) osnova. Nai-malko sklonni sa da s@deistvat
na drugi svoi s@narodnici da emigrirat. (lichen opit - imam dostat@chno poznati,
kolegi i priyateli v USA, no edinstveniyat chovek, koyto mi izprati pokana za
rabota v Silicon Valley be edin ukrainski evrein - az ne s@m evrein - s kogoto
rabotihme prez 87-89 v Kiev). Ne praviat nishto v polza na B@lgaria - pone na
shirokata publika ne e izvestno. Niama b@lgarsko lobby nito v USA, nito v
Germaniya, nik@de. Kolko b@lgari, jiveeshti v shengenskite d@rjavi,
protestiraha pred vlastite za "Iron curtain-2" ?
Drug otlichitelen beleg na emigrantite, osobeno na poslednata v@lna, e
partiinata prinadlejnost. Ne sluchaino vsichki se psuvate na "komunist". Ne
moga da precenya dokolko udachno moje chovek da skrie minaloto si, kogato
emigrira. Ostanalite v BG, obache, pomniat mnogo dobre koi e toi (tia), koga e
stanal partien chlen, kak e vliaz@l v Universiteta kato sin(vnuk) na aktiven
borec, kak se e natiagal kato komsomolec i t.n. i t.p. Prostata statistka
pokazva, che procent@t na nomenklaturata (izpolzvam tozi termin v nai-shiroki
granici) mejdu emigraciyata e mnogo po-visok (4-5 p@ti), otkolkoto v BG. (Ako,
naprimer, vseki 20-i b@lgarin e emigriral, to vseki 4-i ili vseki 5-i
nomenklaturchik go e storil).
Kvalifikaciyata.
P@rvo, dalech ne s@m ubeden, che obrazovanieto na Zapad e tolkova po-dobro ot
obrazovanieto v BG - ako naistina beshe, kak shtiaha da se naplodiat tolkoz
mnogo nauchni rabotnici, aspiranti i t.n. v USA ??? Kak taka vseki zav@rshil
gimnaziya v BG vednaga biva priet da sledva v USA ?? Za jalost, tazi situaciya
e mnogo veroyatno da se promeni v nai-blizko b@deshte po prichina na biagstvoto
zad granica na prepodavatelite - a, eto otnovo - ako nashite prepodavateli sa
tolkova loshi, zashto gi vzemat da prepodavat v USA?
> Kak reshihte che kvalifikaciyata na bqlgarite v chuzhbina ne
> mozhe da se prilozhi pri bqlgarskite usloviya.
Ima goliama razlika v obrazovatelnite sistemi, viarno. U nas se nabliaga mnogo
poveche na zapametiavaneto otkolkoto na zapad. Tam horata se uchat da polzvat
mnojestvo udobstva, koito sa poveche ili po-malko nedost@pni tuk - naprimer,
Internet. Imenno ots@stveto na tezi udobstva, zaedno s nezapametiavaneto gi
praviat ne osobeno polezni tuk (nai-malkoto, nalaga se da zapochnat ot niskite
niva). Struva mi se ochevidno, che ako edin specialist, nauchen da v@rshi mnogo
dobre svoyata rabota pri nalichieto na opredeleni predpostavki, b@de lishen ot
s@shtestvena chast ot tezi predpostavki, toi trudno shte se spravia s rabotata
si. Amerikanskata obrazovatelna sistema podgotvia specialisti za rabota pri
amerikanski usloviya, ne pri b@lgarski. Zatova te ne sa polezni tuk, dokato ne
opoznayat specifikata.
Oshte edna prichina za negativnoto otnoshenie k@m "specialistite ot Zapada",
izgradeno prez poslednite godini v B@lgaria, sa pleiadata sk@poplateni
polugramotni pensioneri, koito ni biaha izprateni v kachestvoto na mejdunarodna
pomosht po liniya na PHARE i dr. podobni programi. Za tova struva mi se, pisah
veche.
> Nali horata (ako im se dade chance) sqzdavat i promenyat usloviyata a ne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> obratnoto.
Poluchilite obrazovani v chujbina niamat pravo da iskat naikoi (d@rjavata)
da im osiguri amerikanski usloviya (samo za tiah), zashtoto, vidite li, te
sa uchili v USA. Mnogo b@lgarski specialisti biha napravili chudesa, ako im se
osiguriat amerikanski uslovia, dokazatelstvo sa uspehite im v chujbina.
I nedeite da izkriviavate dumite mi. Predishnoto mi pismo yasno kazvashe, che
vseki e dobre dosh@l da se opita da promeni polojenieto. Opitah se da Vi ob@rna
vnimaie, che tezi hora ne mogat da razchitat na PREFERENCII.
NK>>S koeto iskah da ob@rna vnimanie na uchashtite v chujbina, che ne mogat da
NK>>ochakvat kato se v@rnat v BG da gi napraviat vednaga nachalnici (stori mi
NK>>se, che imashe takova ochakvane v postinga na T.Maneva).
> Sqshto v otgovora si na g-n Alexiev, Vie pishite che dqrzhavata ne
> tyabva da se namesva v golemiya business.
Nishto podobno ne pisha. Ne bih mog@l da napisha podobna glupost po prostata
prichina, che d@rjavata ne moje da se mesi v "golemiya business" - d@rjavata e
negova funkciya :-))
Napisah, che business-@t triabva da moje da s@shtestvuva i bez d@rjavata da mu
_osiguriava_ specialni usloviya, koeto e s@vsem razlichno neshto.
> ...vremeto na diviya zapad. Nali razvitiyat kapitalizqm se nauchi kak s
> opredeleni dqrzhavni regulacii da ilimimira ikonomicheski srivove,....
Eto potv@rjdeie na shvashtaneto mi za neadekvatnostta na emigrantite - kak@v
"razvit kapitaliz@m" b@lnuvate v B@lgaria ????
> Eh, tuka e problemqt v narodo-psihologiyata ni -- za tova che po-dobre e da
> sqm padnal v kochinata ama da ne iskam akql kak da izlyaza, shtoto yavno sam
> shte mi e trudno. Ot druga strana, nay-obcham nyakoy da mi podhvqrlya
> podayaniya, za da ne umra ot glad dokato si zhiveya v kochinata.
Eh, tova svinsko samos@znanie....
> G-n Kostov, navremeto naistina obrazovanite v chuzhbina "sa gi pravili
> nachalnici v Bulgaira."
Ne spekuliraite s vremenata, kogato v B@lgaria ne e imalo universitet, ne e
dostoino. A moje bi govorite za sinchetata i shterkite, izprateni da uchat
tam, pri "gniliya kapitaliz@m", koito vednaga stavaha nachalnici? :-))
> I neka da Vi uverya che ot podobno otnoshenie ne gubyat emigrantite. :-))
Estestveno, nali zatova sa emigrirali :-))
Nakraya, kato obobshtenie. Ne vedn@j s@m izkazval uprek k@m emigranti za
nihilistichnoto im otnoshenie spriamo B@lgaria. Povtariam, men emigrantite ne
me v@lnuvat osobeno - da si praviat kakvoto iskat. P@k i ne vsichki sa izliazli
ot kochina, ta i mejdu tiah ima hora.
Tova, koeto me v@lnuva, sa onezi mladi hora, koito shte se v@rnat sled kato
poluchat niakakvo (dano e po-dobro) obrazovanie v chujbina. Ne mi haresva
vnushavaneto na omraza k@m B@lgaria, nasajdana im ot onezi, izlezlite ot
kochinata, nito mi haresva kak im se vnushava, che sled kato imat diploma ot
USA, sa hvanali boga za shlifera i vsichki triabva da im se klaniat.
Na tezi hora triabva da im e yasno, che shte se v@rnat v edna bedna d@rjava,
k@deto shte triabva da rabotiat uporito, ako iskat da postignat neshto za sebe
si, za decata si i, moje bi, neshtichko za da ne b@de tazi d@rjava vinagi taka
bedna.
S nai-iskreni chuvstva
N. Kostoff
PLOVDIV 1
Vie bulgari sa lainata na sveta. Kakto shegata kazva:
Zashto suzdade Bog seksa?
Zashtoto toi ne iskashe bulgari da zavayuvat sveta.
Na vuna na oblastta na seks, bulgari hui ne znayat. dokazatelstvoto:
polozhenieto v bulgaria dneska.
Mezhdudrugoto, ne sum bulgarin. Izbrakh tova ekrano-ime narochno.
karadjov
PLOVDIV 1 (plov...@aol.com) wrote:
: Vie bulgari sa lainata na sveta. Kakto shegata kazva:
Dau bog dobro, che ne si!
Georgi Karadjov
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Vladimir Alexiev
> sistematichno ohulvane i opliuvane na vsichko, koeto e ostavil v rodinata
> si, stigashto do nedvusmisleni proyavi na omraza k@m neya.
Ne mislq, che *vsichko* se ohulva. Ohulvat se komunistite, tqhnata zhazhda
za vlast i tqhnoto upravlenie. Naprimer chetqshtite s.c.b. proqviha interes
i dobrozhelatelstvo kym narodnata reakciq na poseshtenieto na carq v
Bulgaria.
> asociaciya za BG - "kochinata", se nalaga shvashtaneto, che tova sa hora,
> zataili d@lboko v sebe si sram ot rodnoto si miasto,
Naj-chesto se pishe "komunisticheskata kochina". T.e. sramyt ne e ot
Bulgaria, a ot tova, che vse oshte q upravlqvat komunisti.
> prev@zhodstvoto na emigranta pred blizki, priyateli, kolegi e (pochti)
> edinstveno v po-debeliya portfeil.
Tochno taka e. Emigrantite sa hora kato vsichki ostanali, koito obache
zhiveqt v normalni choveshki usloviq i mogat da pravqt normalni pari.
Tipichniqt bogat chovek v Bulgaria e pridobil bogatstvoto si po nechesten
nachin (napr borec ili mafiot), dokato za emigrantite (i drugite hora na
zapad) tova ne e taka.
> mnogo malko ot emigrantite si priznaha "az s@m ikonomicheski"
Az taka i ne mozhah da razbera zashto smqtash za nedostojno chovek da e
ikonomicheski emigrant.
> avantiuristi
Emigrantite sa avantiuristi dotolkova, dokolkoto zapochvat edin nov zhivot
ot nulata. No ikonomicheskoto polozhenie v Bulgaria veche stava tolkova
losho, che e cqla avantiura da zhiveesh tam.
> ne stradat ot izlishni skrupuli, ne se zatrudniavat s moralni kategorii
Tova e "sweeping generalisation". Nezavisimo dali govorish za
"statisticheskiq emigrant" ili ne. Niama absoliutno nishto v motivaciqta
na edin emigrant (zhelanie za po-dobyr zhivot), koeto da predopredelq
takiva harakteristiki.
> imat sravnitelno ogranichen umstven bagaj i mirogled
Po-golqmata chast ot emigrantite sa hora na umstveniq trud i
visokokvalificirani specialisti, prosto zashtoto zapadnite strani
predpochitat da priemat takiva hora.
> > We're pretty sure it was Bulgarians who reported them, most probably
> > other illegal workers.
Da, naistina ima i takiva emigranti ("the dark side of emmigration").
Pytnici za Kuba sys spirane v Kanada, "politicheski" bezhanci, ...
> Prostata statistka pokazva, che procent@t na nomenklaturata mejdu
> emigraciyata e mnogo po-visok (4-5 p@ti), otkolkoto v BG.
Imash li fakti da podkrepish tova tvyrdenie?
> Kvalifikaciyata. P@rvo, dalech ne s@m ubeden, che obrazovanieto na Zapad e
> tolkova po-dobro ot obrazovanieto v BG
Srednoto obrazovanie, i raznite "community colleges" naistina ne sa.
Obache:
- usloviqta za i zaplashtaneto na visokokvalificiraniq trud sa po-dobri,
zatova mnogo kvalificirani hora otivat na zapad.
- ima universiteti, koito sa na strahotno visoko ravnishte. Srednoto nivo
mozhe da e i po-nisko ot tova v Bulgaria, no ako chovek naistina iska i
mozhe, mozhe da poluchi naj-dobroto obrazovanie v sveta. Naprimer CMU e
naj-dobrata instituciq v oblastta na Software Engineering v sveta.
> Kak taka vseki zav@rshil gimnaziya v BG vednaga biva priet da sledva v
> USA ??
Vseki zavyrshil gimnaziq v USA syshto shte byde priet v universitet, stiga
da iska. Trudnoto ne e da te priemat v universitet, a da ti dadat stipendiq
(zashtoto nqma nachin v Bulgaria da spestish dostatychno pari za sledvane v
USA).
> ako nashite prepodavateli sa tolkova loshi, zashto gi vzemat da
> prepodavat v USA?
Nashite prepodavateli ne sa loshi izobshto. Problemyt e, che akademichnata
sistema na mesta e tolkova zakostenqla, che ponqkoga prepodavatelite
zagubvat vsqkakva motivaciq da se razvivat i da prepodavat dobre.
Osven tova e bezsporno, che v Bulgaria se pravi po-malko nauka (na glava ot
naslelenieto ili ot nauchniq systav), otkolkoto v Amerika. Prichinata: nqma
pari i nqma uvazhenie/motivaciq za truda na nauchniq rabotnik. Eto naprimer
kumyt mi oshte predi da zavyrshi imashe predolozhenie da prodylzhi v
laboratoriqta, kydeto si napravi diplomnata rabota. Obache shteshe da vzima
8000 lv/mesec. Toj izbra da raboti v edna reklamna agenciq (toj risuva
mnogo dobre), kydeto zapochna s 20000 lv/mesec. Shtoto nqkoj trqbva da
hrani semejstvoto mu, nali?
Drugata mu alternative shteshe da e da napravi kato brat si, kojto sega e v
Univ of New Mexico.
> ako edin specialist, nauchen da v@rshi mnogo dobre svoyata rabota pri
> nalichieto na opredeleni predpostavki, b@de lishen ot s@shtestvena chast
> ot tezi predpostavki, toi trudno shte se spravia s rabotata si.
Tuk si prav.
Chugun2
Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za bizniz? Bulgari sa sposobni sus samo edno
neshto: seks. Kakto shega pita "Zashto suzdade Bog sekas?
- Zashtoto toi ne iskashe bulgarite, da zavayuvat sveta.
Ostanete vie tam i otivaute zaedno sus bulgaria na kino
Chugun2
Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za demokratziata? Nishto. Vie bulgari znaete samo
edno neshto - seks. Na seks, vie ste svetovnite shampioni. Drugi neshta
XYU HE 3HAETE!
KGB*CIA
THREE TIMES CHEERS!!! HE IS BACK!!! HE IS BACK!!! HE IS BACK!!!
Our _AGENT_ MICHAEL ANTIKOMOFF, known now as "Chugun" whom we thought disappeared down the Internet drains is AMONG US again! Let愀 bid him our warm WELCOME!
He愀 here to teach us the secrets of AMERICAN LIFE and VALUES.
We are happy that wonderful treasure of thought and insight did not get lost in the years of NET WAR.
Expect our next bulletin of award, where Major Antikomoff will be promoted in sevice.
--
KGB*CIA for ever!
Jean Nail
On 2 Jul 1996, Chugun2 wrote:
> Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za demokratziata? Nishto. Vie bulgari znaete samo
> edno neshto - seks. Na seks, vie ste svetovnite shampioni. Drugi neshta
> XYU HE 3HAETE!
Every journey to KNOWLEDGE starts with a LACK of knowledge, my friend.
Besides, who says that DEMOCRACY really does work. After all it might
turn to be an utopian idea, same as communism was. So far all countries
with defined "democratic" structures are far bellow the top.
The standard of life is highest in countries like Switzerland, Norway and
Sweden. Switzerland has a social-democratic government, Sweden and Norway
are really not the typical "democratic-capitalist-oriented" countries
either. Fact is you seem a really biased, mentally disturbed and
frustrated person who neither has the authority nor the knowledge, to
afford to order people where to go.... If the States didn't want
foreigners, they would not hand out green cards, or even have a lottery(??)
It is apparent, that the States NEEDS those same very europeans that you
hate, else they would substantially cut on the Green Cards.
So the bottom line is: you are frustrated by your OWN country's policy??
Interesting, my friend, very interesting. Your far-left-nationalism
and your frustration with your country's policy towards foreigners don't
go together....
Conclusion: You must've been forced into an intercourse by some homosexual
russian or bulgarian. You are really frustrated about the matter, because
it is a disgrace to your male dignity. Sh*t happens, there are all kinds
of people in every ethnic group.... Try to undergo treatment, you will
feel better. And don't walk around with boxers on campus next time ok??
j.nail
Siya Stoianova
Jean Nail <jrad...@ramapo.edu> wrote:
> Conclusion: You must've been forced into an intercourse by some homosexual
> russian or bulgarian. You are really frustrated about the matter, because
> it is a disgrace to your male dignity. Sh*t happens, there are all kinds
> of people in every ethnic group.... Try to undergo treatment, you will
> feel better. And don't walk around with boxers on campus next time ok??
Jean Nail, it's very offensive and impolite to try to explain
somebody's frastration with the stereotype of homosexuals only.
The guy coud've been raped or fooled as well by a heterosexual or a
bisexual also.
Siya
>
>
> j.nail
>
>
>
Vladimir Alexiev
> > Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za demokratziata? Nishto. Vie bulgari znaete samo
> > edno neshto - seks.
> Your far-left-nationalism...
It's interesting how deep the psychological skills of Jean are. I'm sure
he's be able to glean one's political, sexual and sports orientation from a
simple "fuck you".
Vladimir Alexiev
> Our _AGENT_ MICHAEL ANTIKOMOFF, known now as "Chugun"
You're completely misguided, IMHO. This is *not* ANTIC.
Jean Nail
On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, Siya Stoianova wrote:
> Jean Nail, it's very offensive and impolite to try to explain
> somebody's frastration with the stereotype of homosexuals only.
> The guy coud've been raped or fooled as well by a heterosexual or a
> bisexual also.
>
> Siya
What does that have to do with insulting an entire nation??
Whatever his motivation, I deeply believe he has not lost the traces
of characteristic human reasoning. Therefore he can not be excused for
cursing and yelling at innocent people, completely unrelated to his
sources of frustration. A black guy bruised my nose the other day,
while playing basketball....it hurt -- does that necessarily mean that
I have to post 20 messages saying "All Afro-Americans, are rude pigs,
and they all should go to hell". I believe not.
I respect your deeply humanitarian approach to the matter, however we
can not afford feeling sorry for every idiot, with apparent mental
problems. I've tried doing that, and its been in vein. The result
was me being in a couple of awkward situations, trying to be the private
psychologist of people who seemed to be completely aware of their problems,
yet they chose to freak out on people, rather then undergo treatment.
As for stereotyping -- please do not make something out of nothing, in
a rather, I would dare to say, american approach. All of a sudden,
everybody got so sensitive about homosexuals, as if they are some special
breed, that has to be treated differently. They like men -- fine!!!
I don't need to hear about their feelings..... moreover when it comes
to cases where lesbians publicly declare that "men are pigs, and that if
every woman could discover the secrets of the female hand, she would never
go back to a man". That to me is as equally unacceptable, insulting and
offensive as a homophob shouting "All gays should be castrated!!".
Enough said.
sincerely,
j.nail
Flaap
In article <4rbusi$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, chu...@aol.com says...
>
>Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za demokratziata? Nishto. Vie bulgari znaete
samo
neshta
>XYU HE 3HAETE!
Sex? World champions? I want to know more about that!
Vladimir Alexiev
In article <4rel8r$d...@mars.worldonline.nl> fl...@worldonline.nl (Flaap) writes:
> Sex? World champions? I want to know more about that!
A translation especially for flaap:
"What do you Bulgarians know about democracy? Nothing. You Bulgarians only
know one thing: sex. In sex you're the world champions. And you know a
rat's ass about all other things.
GINA
In article <4rbusi$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, chu...@aol.com (Chugun2) writes:
> Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za demokratziata? Nishto. Vie bulgari znaete samo
> edno neshto - seks. Na seks, vie ste svetovnite shampioni. Drugi neshta
> XYU HE 3HAETE!
See our dear friend Chugun here has a problem...he seems to be under the
impression that "we whitefolk was always bor'un heyar". So Chugun, you better
sit down...unless you're an american indian (and even they came from somewhere)
you come from a family of immigrants.
Don't take it too hard, if you seclude yourself in a little cabin in
Idaho or Montana, grit your teeth and stomp your feet, you can pretend
that you and yours have always been here, and are to thank for the
great leaps forward mankind has made.
(A little medication would go a long way.)
Regards,
Gina
Chugun2
Vie bulgari nyamat mentalitet da rukovodyat edna strana. Vishte
polozhenieto v bulgaria dneska, bez da se spomenavat blizkoto minalo.
Starata bulgarska pogovorka "dvama bulgari - tri partii" prilaga, zaedno
sus bulgarski technologicheski mentalitet - GAIDA SUS KOMPRESSOR.
Svetovnite shampioni v oblastta na seks, vie bulgari tryabva da se otivat
or onaya balkanska hralupka sus vashite edin ili dve kuferi, i da
precelyat drugade, mezhdu tzivilizatziya. Samo edno neshto - MAXHETE SE OT
CEBEPHA AMEPUKA - TYK, HUE HE BU UCKAME!
Jean Nail
On 6 Jul 1996, Chugun2 wrote:
> precelyat drugade, mezhdu tzivilizatziya. Samo edno neshto - MAXHETE SE OT
> CEBEPHA AMEPUKA - TYK, HUE HE BU UCKAME!
Haide.....oshte edin psihopat pochna da govori za sebe si v mnozhestveno
chislo. I take it you have the "multiple-personality" problem, too
eh?? What do you say I find you a job in McDonalds (cause you obviously
have nothing useful to do) and you shut up....better yet, I will take
you to Six Flags, AND get you a job at McDonalds....Deal??
you know who.
j.n.
karadjov
Chugun2 (chu...@aol.com) wrote:
: Vie bulgari nyamat mentalitet da rukovodyat edna strana. Vishte
: polozhenieto v bulgaria dneska, bez da se spomenavat blizkoto minalo.
: Starata bulgarska pogovorka "dvama bulgari - tri partii" prilaga, zaedno
: sus bulgarski technologicheski mentalitet - GAIDA SUS KOMPRESSOR.
GAIDA SUS KOMPRESSOR and the best computer viruses in the wold!
: Svetovnite shampioni v oblastta na seks, vie bulgari tryabva da se otivat
: or onaya balkanska hralupka sus vashite edin ili dve kuferi, i da
: precelyat drugade, mezhdu tzivilizatziya. Samo edno neshto - MAXHETE SE OT
: CEBEPHA AMEPUKA - TYK, HUE HE BU UCKAME!
"We do not want you here!" cried the world when Chugun came on the
sceen, and then they lunched him in interplanetary spcase. They gived him
only his monkey presure suit.
Georgi Karadjov
----------------------------------------------------------------
: Stop on by the Internet TeleCafe! telnet://telecafe.com:9000 :
----------------------------------------------------------------
KGB*CIA
KGB*CIA BULLETIN # 00AMI2ANIDIOT/06.04.1996, decoded for Net purposes.
Read after burning or vice versa.
OUR AGENT CHUGUN2 IS SPECIALLY AWARDED WITH THE BIG DICK CRIMSON WAR
MEDAL Ist DEGREE, UPPER DRAWER, LEFT CHEEK FOR HIS BRAVE HONEST AND
CONTINUOUS NET RIGHT POLICY (NET NIGHT POLUTEE).
MR.GENERAL TACTIC WARFARE: A.SS. HUYOVIN
---
kgb*cia for ever!
KGB*CIA
how can u be so sure, bro?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
KGB*CIA
sl...@cc.usu.edu (GINA) wrote:
>See our dear friend Chugun here has a problem...he seems to be under the
>impression that "we whitefolk was always bor'un heyar". So Chugun, you better
>sit down...unless you're an american indian (and even they came from somewhere)
>you come from a family of immigrants.
>
> Don't take it too hard, if you seclude yourself in a little cabin in
> Idaho or Montana, grit your teeth and stomp your feet, you can pretend
> that you and yours have always been here, and are to thank for the
> great leaps forward mankind has made.
>
>(A little medication would go a long way.)
>Regards,
>Gina
>
u're waisting ur time, Gina. The guy is completely hopeless as a stump.
---
Chugun2
You bulgarian slime-head dirt balls, who with a right mind would ever hire
one of you to do anything but shovel shit out of portable toilets? Your
country and its brainless and mindless mentality (as seen from the
political situation there now and as long as is recorded in history)
proves bulgarians are the scum of mankind, incapable of anything other
than SEX where, admittedly, they are world's champions. TAKA, UDUOTU,
MAXHETE CE OT AMEPUKA U CEDHETE HA 3ADHUKA BU TAM, HE TYK.
Chugun2
Air head american liberals put up these green card laws which are abused
by every what not kind of leech who wants to come here to leech off the
welfare system. You sound like just one of those liberals. The typical
russian immigrant lands here, the first place he goes is to the welfare
office to sign up for welfare, then right to the social security office to
get on SSI, taking a pill to cause irregular heart beat so he can claim
disaiblity if there is a medical exam. Whenthats done, then he heads to
the nearest retail stores to start shoplifting, to get his piece of the
long lost "american dream". You want scum russians and their sidekicks,
the bulgarians here in this country we worked hard to build? FOR THEM TO
COME AND SUCK OUT THE BEST OF IT WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING SHIT? well then
LIBERAL J.,NAILHEAD, YOU PICK UP THE TAB FOR THE SCUM, YOU AND THE REST
OF YOUR LIBERAL AIR HEAD COMRADES, AND DONT SHOVE THE GARBAGE OFF ON THE
TAXPAYERS. if you think so highly of that balkan bulgarian trash, why dont
you go there and teach them how to run agovernment?They havent learned
that in l000 years, and you know and I know why: UDUOTU. Like the
bulgarian proverb says "dvama bulgari - tri partii"
Jean Nail
OH so now, your own "america" is composed of airheads....
Man, I am really starting to get amused....
I want to hear much, much more....Since I am a bloody liberal, and I
don't do things behind other people's backs, I just thought I'd let
you know that my fiancee works for FBI....Your postings are presently
documented. Information about your unix handle has been accessed....
I am presently making a script of all your anti-semithic, and neo-nazi
postings, and I have arranged to have them viewed by someone, and on the
basis of that charges might be brought up. I hope you are not some
kid playing around with the net again, because this can lead to some
really serious complications. I have been allowed to inform you that,
the net has been put under a strict control, because of the number of
incidents and harassments, that have happened recently.
For your own good, please get a hold of your frustration, and discontinue
posting of inappropriate, offensive material.
Else charges will be brought up.
Thank you.
j.nail
Slavey Tolev
Well, well, well. Let me see what do we have here? A crazyassbitch m.f.
who thinks he's got all the dope and the juice. Listen y'all punk ass.
There ain't never been no stupid Bulgarian proverb like that but there is
one I think you might enjoy and one that you should take some advice
from. It is a very smart move "Not to piss against the wind 'cause you
might get it all over you. And the second one which a Russian variation
of the first one says "Don't piss in the glass of water 'cause ya never
know. One day you mihght have to drink it."
As for who is coming to the States and doing what I gotta tell you one
thing. When your stupid mofugly whiteass honkey grandparents came frrom
the potato farms in Ireland and took the land and the lives of many
natives, they didn't quite look that much different from the Russian
mobsters in Brighton Beach. SO I tell ya what. Why don't you go to the
bath room, drop a big one and you gonna feel much better. If that doesn't
help, go buy yourself a gun and shoot yourself in the stupid empty head
and do yourself and society a good and a very big favour.
See ya buster. And stop busting nuts will ya?!
Rico Suave
On 7 Jul 1996, Chugun2 wrote:
> Date: 7 JUL 1996 21:12:23 -0400
> From: Chugun2 <chu...@aol.com>
> Newgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
> Subject: Re: A bad day for Bulgaria
karadjov
Chugun2 (chu...@aol.com) wrote:
: Air head american liberals put up these green card laws which are abused
: by every what not kind of leech who wants to come here to leech off the
: welfare system. You sound like just one of those liberals. The typical
: russian immigrant lands here, the first place he goes is to the welfare
: office to sign up for welfare, then right to the social security office to
: get on SSI, taking a pill to cause irregular heart beat so he can claim
: disaiblity if there is a medical exam. Whenthats done, then he heads to
: the nearest retail stores to start shoplifting, to get his piece of the
: long lost "american dream". You want scum russians and their sidekicks,
: the bulgarians here in this country we worked hard to build? FOR THEM TO
: COME AND SUCK OUT THE BEST OF IT WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING SHIT? well then
: LIBERAL J.,NAILHEAD, YOU PICK UP THE TAB FOR THE SCUM, YOU AND THE REST
: OF YOUR LIBERAL AIR HEAD COMRADES, AND DONT SHOVE THE GARBAGE OFF ON THE
: TAXPAYERS. if you think so highly of that balkan bulgarian trash, why dont
: you go there and teach them how to run agovernment?They havent learned
: that in l000 years, and you know and I know why: UDUOTU. Like the
: bulgarian proverb says "dvama bulgari - tri partii"
I do not know why, but reading posting from Mr. Pigiron gives me
impresions of cyclical occurances. At first one is kind of taken by
surprise, then anoied, and after two postings by the pigheaded individual,
BORED to death. Can Mr. PigIron say anything new, or his IQ is so limited
that it takes a year for a new idea to be formed in his head?
Georgi Karadjov
---------------------------------------------------------------------
: Internet Direct (416)233-2999 1000 lines SLIP, 9600 - 33,600 bps :
---------------------------------------------------------------------
toni
Pisha na balgarski, da ne se rezilim pred sweta :
citat ot Swejk - "Wie ste samo malak primer kakwi goweda se razdat pod
slanceto"
--
Antoniy Tontchev
e-mail to...@bse.bg
toni
Vladimir Alexiev
> >You're completely misguided, IMHO. This is *not* ANTIC.
> how can u be so sure, bro?
The writing style is quite different. The proficiency in the Bulgarian
language is quite lower. Also, ANTHC used to tell us stories ("In 1958 I
knew a ...."), not simply bash.
Vladimir Alexiev
> J.,NAILHEAD, YOU PICK UP THE TAB FOR THE SCUM
should be saying "get out of here" instead.
Crazy
KGB*CIA wrote:
>
> KGB*CIA BULLETIN # 00AMI2ANIDIOT/06.04.1996, decoded for Net purposes.
>
> Read after burning or vice versa.
>
> OUR AGENT CHUGUN2 IS SPECIALLY AWARDED WITH THE BIG DICK CRIMSON WAR
> MEDAL Ist DEGREE,
With balls or without balls?
I'd say that the Big Dick Crimson War Medal Ist degree - With Balls,
sounds better and more befitting.
Respectfully,
-= Ivan =-
---
BBB
Svetlozar Petkov
KAK ZNAE METALNOTO GOVEDO BYLGARSKI? DA NE BI DA E NYAKOE
NASHE MOMCHE S NEPREODOLIMI LICHNI PROBLEMI ILI CHUGUNENO
CHUVSTVO ZA HUMOR?
Svetlozar
Chugun2
You communist mentality scum
coming to america to dump your "ideals" of sexual perversion, welfare
cheating, leeching off the social security system, and cheating? Get your
slime- ass scumbag minds OT AMEPUKA U MAXHETE CE OT TYKA! Go back to your
two bit balkan nightmare and dont bring your dreams of dollars to these
shores. Your kind deserves nothing more than the tziganskata makhala of
sofia. Go back and get your country ready for a new series of disasters,
brought on, of course by the brainlessness of the bulgarian mentality -
dbama bulgari - tpu naptuu.
Todor Georgiev
I thought you could lead an intelligent discussion at least for a little
bit, but again- you proved me wrong. What the fuck is wrong with you? You
are not even original any more. In fact, I am starting to get pretty sick
of your unoriginal shit. At least say something new. I understand that it
is hard for a retard like you, but you can at least try. If you give us
arguments for your neo-Nazi bullshit, maybe we will agree with you.
In fact, now I start to understand why you have such a low opinion of all
Bulgarians. Considering you write in Bulgarian, I suppose you are a
Bulgarian too (God forbid). It is hard to look at a scumbag like yourself
in the mirror every morning and not think that all Bulgarians are retards
like you.
Sorry for the offensive words, but I tried to lead an intelligent
discussion with you, but you made it impossible. This is the only way to
talk to sick bastards like you.
Get a life, Chugun, or whoever (or whatever) you are.
Todor
Chugun2
sorry, trash-head, your ability to swear in both english and bulgarian,
shows you are scum in both countries. Go start a new mafia in sofia, it
fits your mind
Chugun2
You slime headed dirt ball balkan trash, why must you pollute cyber space
with your presence? Isnt it bad enough that your communist trash-level
mentality is polluting the western world, which you drag with you as you
succeed in leaving that cockroach infested stumble=bum fiasco you call
PODUHA. Get your perverted asses out of this country AND GO BACK TO
PODUHA. Human pollution we dont need. MAXHETE CE OT TYKA
Chugun2
kARADJOV, vashiyt angliiski ezik e kato tova, ot edin nedorazvitelen
maimun. Vasheto komunistichesko obrazovanie se pokazva
karadjov
Chugun2 (chu...@aol.com) wrote:
: kARADJOV, vashiyt angliiski ezik e kato tova, ot edin nedorazvitelen
: maimun. Vasheto komunistichesko obrazovanie se pokazva
Na tebe i anlgiskia i blgarskiat sa ti takiva. Kakvo ti e na tebe
opravdanieto? A za moito obrazovanie, polovinata e Blgarsko, drugata
polovina e Kanadsko. Koia chaast spored tebe e komunisticheskata? Imai
predvid che mnogo ot moito blgarsko obrasovanie e v duha na VMRO. Ti dali
shte go narechesh i tova komunistichesko?
karadjov
Chugun2 (chu...@aol.com) wrote:
: You slime headed dirt ball balkan trash, why must you pollute cyber space
Abe to zamrsiavaneto na zapada may e pochnalo s tebe!
Jean Nail
On 3 Jul 1996, Vladimir Alexiev wrote:
> In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.960703...@ultrix.ramapo.edu> Jean Nail <jrad...@ramapo.edu> writes:
>
> > > Kakvo znaete vie bulgari za demokratziata? Nishto. Vie bulgari znaete samo
> > > edno neshto - seks.
>
> > Your far-left-nationalism...
>
> It's interesting how deep the psychological skills of Jean are. I'm sure
> he's be able to glean one's political, sexual and sports orientation from a
> simple "fuck you".
"He's be able"(????!!). Vladimir, you've been hanging out with your russian
masters again....
j.nail
p.s. Your sarcasm needs work....
Chugun2
rico suave, no es rico,no es suave, es un bulgaro borrato, como los otros
Chugun2
not just a bad day, but a bad millenium
Alek Argirov
Chugun2 wrote:
>
> You slime headed dirt ball balkan trash, why must you pollute cyber space
> with your presence? Isnt it bad enough that your communist trash-level
> mentality is polluting the western world, which you drag with you as you
> succeed in leaving that cockroach infested stumble=bum fiasco you call
> PODUHA. Get your perverted asses out of this country AND GO BACK TO
> PODUHA. Human pollution we dont need. MAXHETE CE OT TYKA
You promote yourself as the worlds greatest democrat
but
your only a bigot.