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the meaning of "zagora"?

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mal...@rocketmail.com

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97

In article <63jk08$cqc$1...@hecate.umd.edu>,
che...@Glue.umd.edu (Chen Wang) wrote:
>
> can someone give the meaning of the word
> "zagora" in english?
>
(PM) Zagora is BULGARIAN word. It was used as a
name of vast region in southern Bulgaria -
Northern Thrace. In some chronicles from the
Middle Ages, whole Bulgaria was named as Zagora.
The etymology of this word comes from Bulgarian
"za gora" - "over the mountains" - denoting plain
areas over the Balkan mountains, which were
conquered in VII - IX centuries after continuous
battles with Byzantine armies. I dare to repost a
short article for the Klokotnitsa Battle on March
9, 1230, where it can be seen, that Bulgarian
king Ioan Asen II was called from some chronists
"king of Zagora".

March 9, 1230 - 767th Anniversary of
Klokotnitsa Battle

The treaty between Latin barons in
Tsarigrad/Constantinopolis and Bulgarian king
Ioan Asen II in 1228 was strengthened with the
engagement of his nonmature daughter Elena to the
nonmature Latin Emperor Baldween II. In that
treaty a condition was signed, that Bulgarian king
would help to the Latin Empire in its struggle
with Epirus Despoty and Nikea Empire, which
both were pretending for the Byzantine heritage.
In return Plovdiv/Philipoupolis with its area was
returned to Bulgaria.

Let us read the chronicle of Marino Sanuto
from Venice, written in 1228: "And so, when the
power in the Latin Empire was transferred to
Baldween, which was nonmature, a treaty was
concluded for better benevolence, and it was
decided, that the daughter of the king of Zagora
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ioan Asen II, a famous and great man by this time
in these lands, would marry the nonmature, by
which the mentioned Baldween hoped, that would
strengthen his power to great deeds."

The clever diplomatics of Ioan Asen II
increased his influence in Tsarigrad/
Constantinopolis. The longlasting dream of
Bulgarian kings to become masters of the "Second
Rome" was going to be fulfilled. But Latin barons
discovered the desire of king Ioan Asen II, and
decided to refuse from his protection. In April
1229 they secretly concluded a treaty with
Erusalim/Jerusalem king Jean de Brien, and
promised Baldween II to marry his daughter.

Epirus Despot (which named himself
Emperor) also watched with unrest the deeds
of Bulgarian king, which was regarded as
dangerous for Empire crown. Because of this, in
1230 Theodor Comnin without declaring war
invaded Bulgarian lands. King Ioan Asen II
organised his army, and together with a Kuman
horse detachment went towards the invador.
Because of the non-Christian beginning of
the war, king Ioan Asen II ordered the peace treaty
with Epirus Despoty to be put on a pike, and to be
waved as a flag in the battles. Both armies met in
vicinity of Haskovo, near the river Klokotnitsa.
Theodor Comnin was completely defeated. He was
taken as a prisoner of war, together with all his
family. Bulgarian king Ioan Asen II ordered all
Greek solgiers to give their weapons, and relieved
them to go home - something very unusual at that
time...

After the great defeat near Klokotnitsa,
Epirus Despoty was destroyed. Only in
Solun/Thessaloniki remained the brother of
Theodor Comnin - Manuil Comnin, but as a vasal
of king Ioan Asen II. Bulgaria reached its biggest
increasement. Bulgarian borders, as in the
famous years of king Simeon, again reached three
seas - Adriatic, Aegean and Black. The big victory
was commemorated by a special column, which
was put in the church "St. St. 40 Martyrs" in the
Bulgarian capital Tyrnovo.

It can be read in this column: "... in the
twelth year of my sitting on the throne, I
completely destroyed Greek army, and took as
prisoners of war kir Theodor Comnin and all his
noble men. And whole his land was taken by me -
from Odrin (Adrianopolis - my rem. ) to Drach -
Greek land, and also Arbanasy land and Serbian
land. The towns about Tsarigrad (Constantinopolis
- my rem.), and this town were possessions of the
Franks, but they also were under the hand of my
kingdom, and obeyed to my hand."

It can be also read in the chronicle "Prolog
Zhitie" of Ilarion from Myglen (XIV cent.): "Ioan
Asen II was king of Bulgarians, Greeks, Franks,
Serbs, and Arbanases, to all towns from sea to
sea."

Since the Klokotnitsa battle king Ioan Asen II
changed his signature - he began to sign the
documents as "King of Bulgarians and Greeks". But
there was also Nikea Empire... In 1231 king Ioan
Asen II understood, that he was deceived by Latin
barons. He decided to conclude a treaty with Nikea
Empire. The main Bulgarian reason was the
statute of Bulgarian Orthodox Church. King
Ioan Asen II wanted to reestablish again the
independent Bulgarian Autokephalous Orthodox
Patriarchy. But this could not be done without an
agreement with the Eastern Patriarchs... The
Nikean Patriarch German promiced to obtain
written agreement from Jerusalem, Antiochian,
and Alexandrian Patriarchs. A treaty was signed,
and the daughter of Ioan Asen II - Elena was
engaged to the heir of Nikean Throne Theodor II
Laskaris. Nikean Emperor Ioan II Duca Vatatsi
expected help from Bulgarians in regaining
Constantinopolis from Franks.

On the church meeting in Lampsak in 1234
Bulgarian Archbishop Joakim was announced as
Bulgarian Patriarch. Again there was independent
Bulgarian church. According to the treaty,
Bulgarians and Nikeans encircled
Constantinopolis. But the battles in 1235 were
unsuccessful, because of the nonprepared fleet of
Nikeans. The unsuccessful battles forced king Ioan
Asen II to annihilate the treaty and to announce the
engagement of his daughter as annuled.

The main reason for the above deed of king
Ioan Asen II was that in 1237 died the elderly
king of Jerusalem Jean de Brien. Latins again
promiced to king Ioan Asen II that his daughter
could marry Baldween II. Because of this king Ioan
Asen II concluded treaty with Latin Empire
against Nikea Empire. Bulgarians and Latins
encircled Nikean town Tsurulum. But in the time
of battles, a pest epidemy took place in Bulgarian
capital Tyrnovo, and the Queen, Bulgarian
Patriarch and the smallest child of king Ioan Asen
II died. Nikean clergy persuaded Ioan Asen II, that
that was a God punishment, because he invaded his
former Orthodox Christian allies. He and all
Bulgarian army leaved for Tyrnovo.

In the same 1237 again treaty with Nikean
Empire was concluded. Again the mentioned
princess Elena was engaged to Theodor II Laskaris.
King Ioan Asen II remained in Tyrnovo. There
lived as a prisoner the Epirote princess Irina. The
widower king was captured by the beauty of the
Byzantine princess, and married her, without any
political reasons - something very unusual for
those times...
Regards: Plamen M.

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

GS

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97

mal...@rocketmail.com wrote:
Subject:
Re: the meaning of "zagora"?
Date:
Mon, 10 Nov 1997 03:41:22 -0600
From:
mal...@rocketmail.com
Organization:
Deja News Posting Service
Newsgroups:
soc.culture.greek, alt.news.macedonia,
soc.culture.bulgaria
References:
1

In article <63jk08$cqc$1...@hecate.umd.edu>,
che...@Glue.umd.edu (Chen Wang) wrote:
>
> can someone give the meaning of the word
> "zagora" in english?
>

(PM) Zagora is Slavic word. It has been used for a number of place
designations, including the name of a vast region in Northern Thrace.

In some chronicles from the

Middle Ages, Bulgaria itself was designated as Zagora.
The etymology of this word comes from the slavic words
"za gora" - "over the mountains" - denoting the area
beyond the Balkan mountains, which was
conquered in the VII - IX centuries after continuous

battles with Byzantine armies. I dare to repost a
short article for the Klokotnitsa Battle on March

9, 1230, where it can be seen that the Bulgarian
king Ioan Asen II/Ivan Asen II was called in some chronicles
"the king of Zagora".

Yo, Plamen, I should have thought of this utilization in the
chronicles. So, to be nice, I edited this piece of yours a little into
more idiomatic English.

March 9, 1230 - 767th Anniversary of
Klokotnitsa Battle

The treaty between Latin barons in

Tsarigrad/Constantinople and the Bulgarian king
Ivan Asen II in 1228 was strengthened with the
engagement of his daughter Elena to the
Latin Emperor Baldwin II, neither of whom had come of age. In that
treaty, a condition was signed for the Bulgarian king
to help the Latin Empire in its struggle
with the Despot of Epirus and the Nicean Empire,
both of which claimed to be successor Byzantineempires.
In return, Plovdiv/Philipopoulis , designated as a new area, was
given to Bulgaria.

Let us read the chronicle of Marino Sanuto
from Venice, written in 1228: "And so, when the
power in the Latin Empire was transferred to

Baldwin, not yet of age, a treaty was

concluded for better benevolence, and it was

decided that the daughter of the king of Zagora
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ivan Asen II, a famous and great man by this time
in these lands, should marry another , not yet of age , by
which the mentioned Baldwin hoped his power would
be strengthened to perform great deeds."

The clever diplomacy of Ivan Asen II

increased his influence in Tsarigrad/

Constantinople. The long held dream of the

Bulgarian kings to become masters of the "Second
Rome" was going to be fulfilled. But Latin barons

discovered the desire of king Ivan Asen II, and
decided to refuse his protection. In April,
1229, they secretly concluded a treaty with the

Erusalim/Jerusalem king Jean de Brien, and

promised that Baldwin II could marry his daughter.

The Despot of the Epirus (who had named himself

Emperor) also watched with unrest the deeds

of the Bulgarian king, who was regarded as
dangerous for the imperial crown. Because of this, in
1230 Theodore Comnenus, without declaring war
invaded Bulgarian lands. King Ivan Asen II
organized his army, and together with a Cuman
horse detachment marched on the invader.

Because of the non-Christian beginning of

the war, king Ivan Asen II ordered the peace treaty
with Despot of the Epirus to be put on a stake, and to be

waved as a flag in the battles. Both armies met in
vicinity of Haskovo, near the river Klokotnitsa.

Theodore Comnenus was completely defeated. He was
taken as a prisoner of war together with all his
family. The Bulgarian king Ivan Asen II ordered all
Greek soldiers to give up their weapons, and allowed
them to return home - something very unusual at that
time...

After the great defeat near Klokotnitsa,

The Despotate of Epirus was destroyed. Only in

Solun/Thessaloniki remained the brother of

Theodore Comnenus, - Manuel Comnenus, but as a vassal
of king Ivan Asen II. Bulgaria reached its largest
extnet. Bulgarian borders, as in the
famous years of king Simeon, again reached the three
seas - the Adriatic, the Aegean and the Black. The great victory

was commemorated by a special column, which

was put in the church of the Holy 40 Martyrs [of Sebaste ] in the
Bulgarian capital of Turnovo.

On this column can be read: "... in the

twelth year of my sitting on the throne, I
completely destroyed Greek army, and took as

prisoners of war Kyr[ios] Theodore Comnenus and all his
noble men. And the whole of his land was taken by me -
from Odrin (Adrianopolis - my rem. ) to Drachia -
Greek land, and also Arbanasy [Albanian] land and Serbian
land. The towns about Tsarigrad (Constantinople

- my rem.), and this town were possessions of the
Franks, but they also were under the hand of my

kingdom, and obeyed my hand."

It can be also read in the chronicle "Prolog

Zhitie" {lives of the Saints] of Ilarion from Myglen (XIV cent.): "Ivan
Asen II was the king of the Bulgarians, Greeks, Franks,
Serbs, and Albanians, in all towns from sea to
sea."

From the time of the Klokotnitsa battle, king Ivan Asen II

changed his signature - he began to sign

documents as "the King of the Bulgarians and Greeks". But
there was also the Empire of Nicea... In 1231 king Ivan
Asen II understood that he had been deceived by the Latin
barons. He decided to conclude a treaty with the Empire of Nicea

. The main Bulgarian reason was the

statute of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. King
Ivan Asen II wanted to reestablish the
independent Bulgarian Autocephalous Orthodox
Patriarchy. But this could not be [canonically]done without an

agreement with the Eastern Patriarchs... The

Nicean Patriarch German [Herman] promised to obtain
written agreement from the Patriarchs of Jerusalem, Antioch,
and Alexandria. A treaty was signed,
and the daughter of Ivan Asen II , Elena, was
engaged to the heir of the Nicean Throne, Theodore II
Lascaris. The Emperor of Nicea, Ivan II Ducas Vatatsi,
expected help from the Bulgarians in regaining
Constantinople from the Franks.

In the church meeting in Lampsak in 1234, the
Bulgarian Archbishop Joachim was pronounced
Patriarch of Bulgaria. Again, there was an independent

Bulgarian church. According to the treaty,

Bulgarians and Niceans encircled
Constantinople. But the battles in 1235 were
unsuccessful because of the ill prepared fleet of the
Niceans. These unsuccessful battles forced king Ivan
Asen II to destroy the treaty and to announce the
engagement of his daughter as annulled.

The main reason for the above deed of king

Ivan Asen II was that in 1237, the elderly
king of Jerusalem, Jean de Brien, died. Latins again
promised to king Ivan Asen II that his daughter
could marry Baldwin II. Because of this, king Ivan
Asen II concluded a treaty with the Latin Empire
against the Nicean Empire. Bulgarians and Latins
encircled the Nicean town Tsurulum. But, in the time
of these battles, a pestulence, an epidemic, took place in the
Bulgarian
capital Turnovo, and the Queen, the Bulgarian
Patriarch and the youngest child of king Ivan Asen
II perished. Nicean clergy persuaded Ivan Asen II that
that had been a punishment by God for having invaded his
former Orthodox Christian allies. He and the whole
Bulgarian army left for Turnovo.

In the same year,1237, another treaty with the Nicean
Empire was concluded. Again the rpeviously mentioned
princess Elena was engaged to Theodore II Laskaris.
King Ivan Asen II remained in Turnovo. The Epirote princess Irina lived
there as a prisoner. The widower king was so captured by the beauty of
the Byzantine princess that he married her without any
political reasons,something very unusual for

those times...
Regards: Plamen M.

cheers, partially edited, Galina S
-

Goce Naumoski

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97

?????????

|> name of vast region in southern Bulgaria -
|> Northern Thrace. In some chronicles from the
|> Middle Ages, whole Bulgaria was named as Zagora.
|> The etymology of this word comes from Bulgarian
|> "za gora" - "over the mountains" - denoting plain

********************************

|> areas over the Balkan mountains, which were
|> conquered in VII - IX centuries after continuous
|> battles with Byzantine armies. I dare to repost a
|> short article for the Klokotnitsa Battle on March
|> 9, 1230, where it can be seen, that Bulgarian
|> king Ioan Asen II was called from some chronists
|> "king of Zagora".

[The short article deleted]

Asserting that a word belongs to a certain language and
using CAPITALS to emphasize it, will not make the word
belonging to that language ONLY!

The word 'zagora' might be a Bulgarian word, but it is certainly
NOT Bulgarian only. It is MACEDONIAN, and it is CROATIAN too
(Am I allowed to use capitals, like Mr. Malinov does above?).
The word "zagora" is composed of the words "za" and "gora", which
again are not Bulgarian only, but for example Macedonian and
Croatian too.
The usual meaning of the Macedonian word "za" in English is "for",
but "za" is also used to mean "to start", "to begin", etc.
The meaning of the Macedonian word "gora" comes from "gore",
which means "up" or "high". This word is used for "a mountain", but
the proper meaning is "a hill" which is 'highly populated with
trees'. The meaning of "a mountain" in Macedonian is "planina".

Now, let's go back to the subject. The meaning of the word "zagora"
in Bulgarian is, according to Mr. Malinov, "over the mountains".
In Macedonian, "zagora" means/determines "the beginning (ZA)
of (the) mountains (GORA)" or "the place where the mountains/hills (GORA)
begin (ZA)". It has probably the same meaning in Croatian, after the
region of "Zagorje" (Hrvatsko Zagorje - Croatian Zagorye) ('zagorje'
is (one of) the plural forms of "zagora") where the Alps (Alpi)
start/begin.

Regrads,
Goce.

mal...@rocketmail.com

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Nov 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/12/97

In article <6477pl$9...@tuegate.tue.nl>,
go...@win.tue.nl (Goce Naumoski) wrote:
mal...@rocketmail.com writes:

>(PM)Zagora is BULGARIAN word. It was used as a

>name of vast region in southern Bulgaria -
>Northern Thrace. In some chronicles from the

>Middle Ages,whole Bulgaria was named as Zagora.

>The etymology of this word comes from
>Bulgarian "za gora" - "over the mountains" -
>denoting plain areas over the Balkan mountains,
>which were conquered in VII - IX centuries after >continuous battles with Byzantine armies. I dare
>to repost a short article for the Klokotnitsa
>Battle on March 9, 1230, where it can be seen,
>that Bulgarian king Ioan Asen II was called from
>some chronists "king of Zagora".
>

< (GN)[The short article deleted]

<Asserting that a word belongs to a certain
<language and using CAPITALS to emphasize it,
<will not make the word belonging to that language
< ONLY! The word 'zagora' might be a Bulgarian
<word, but it is certainly NOT Bulgarian only. It

<is MACEDONIAN, and it is CROATIAN too. <del> ...
<
(PM) I agree, that this word can be used in other
Slavic languages - as in your example - Serbo-
Croatian. On the other hand, I am somewhat
conservative (as is my country and the most
linguists in the world), so that I regard the
language, used in the Republic of Macedonia as a
Bulgarian dialect, and also I think, that in Serbia,
Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro one and the same
language is used - Serbo-Croatian.
<
<(GN)The word "zagora" is composed of the words

<"za" and "gora", which again are not Bulgarian
<only, but for example Macedonian and Croatian
<too. The usual meaning of the Macedonian word

<"za" in English is "for",but "za" is also used to

<mean "to start", "to begin", etc. The meaning of
<the Macedonian word "gora" comes from "gore",
<which means "up" or "high". This word is used
<for "a mountain", but the proper meaning is "a
<hill" which is 'highly populated with trees'. The
<meaning of "a mountain" in Macedonian is
<"planina".
<

(PM) Excuse me, but you are not right at all. We,
Bulgarians, also have the word "planina" for
mountain - for ex.: Stara Planina is Bulgarian
name for the Balkans (Turkish)= Hemus (Greek).
The word "gora" is only used in Bulgarian and in
your dialect with the meaning of "woods" - the
transformation was made in the early VIII-IX c.
from "mountain", and not "up" . The other Slavic
languages use "gora" in its original meaning of
"mountain". But do you know, how "mountain" was
called in the Cyrillic alphabet - "shan" - from
Turkic Bulgarian name for "mountain"! By the
way, do you know the meaning of the Cyrillic
alphabet at all? As known, the names of the
letters in Greek alphabet are not meaningful - for
example "alpha" comes from Phoenician "alef",
etc. But in Cyrillic the names of the letters form a
poem, which is acronimous one, and is intended
for preaching, instruction and better
remembering. It is not known who was the author
- St Cyril - Constantine-Cyril Philosopher, or
St. Clement - Kliment Ohridski, or St Naum -
Naum Preslavski. As known, in that time (IX c.)
acronimous verse was hightly popular - for ex.
"Proglas kym Evangelieto" of St Constantine-
Cyril Philosopher, "Azbuchna Molitva", etc. In
order the verse to be obtained, some changes from
the order of the letters in Greek were made.
"Az", "buki", "vedi", "glagoli", "dobro", "estj",
"zhitj" ,"zemli", ... etc. - "Know" "the letters",
"understand" "the words"!, "It is good" "to live"
"on the earth", ... After that it is said, that God
rules over men and women, "shan", "tzryv" -
"mountains" and "worms", etc...
But I am expecting answers to my questions
from a month ago, when I posted the interview
with Prof. Kochev from the Sofia University. Then
you prefer to "hide" and to be silent. Only Nada
has given some meaningless and stupid reply -
how Macedonians would remain without language,
if they sign the treaties with Bulgaria on
"Constitutional language of the Republic of
Macedonia". I dare to repeat my questions:
In article <627q10$m...@tuegate.tue.nl>,
go...@win.tue.nl (Goce Naumoski) wrote:
> ...<del>...
Mr Naumoski,
I shall put aside all insinuations, mere
declarations and undeserved insults, as
"propaganda", "dirty propaganda", "Bulgar
dreams", "cheap and dirty propaganda sentences",
"cheap propaganda shouts", "shameful act", "What
a Bulgar intelligence!", etc, etc.
But let us consider some more substantial
points:
1)
> (GN) Many times in the past, here and
> elsewhere has been written that
> continuing like this you are not going to make
> friends of us.
Why on the earth you are thinking, that somebody
ought to make some concessions and discounts in
order to "deserve" your friendship ? The truth is
too dear to us in order to make "concessions" on it.
2)
Where you have foung a groung in the material for
such thoughts: "However, the problem is that
their thoughts are backward, but they either do
not realize that or do know but use them for the
XIX ct. Bulgar dreams. " ...because of nonrealized
expectations that Macedonia and Macedonians
would 'immediately turn into the hug of mother
Bulgaria' and the disappointment as a product of
these false expectations, are the cause for
opening the XIX ct. agenda with Bulgar dreams,
and the current troubles. " ? Please, explain in
plain words, where in the replies of Prof. Kochev
you have found a foundation for such conclusions.
Or maybe they are also mere declarations, a fruit
of your "fear from the own shadow" ?
3)
Explain why the authorities in the Republic of
Macedonia refuse to sign the bilateral agreements
on "Constitutional language of the Republic of
Bulgaria", and "Constitutional language of the
Republic of Macedonia". They insist to be
recognized some Macedonian language - something
impossible in the international relations and
without precedent in diplomatic history. But you
ought to have in mind, that we can continue to live
as before - without too much contacts with the
Republic of Macedonia. Your side is which is more
interested from developing of trade, cultural and
political relations with my country.
I have posted this article, because it very
clearly describes Bulgarian position on the
language dispute with the Republic of Macedonia.
It is evident that Bulgaria will NEVER recognize
some Macedonian language as an condition for
developing the bilateral relations with the
Republic of Macedonia. In the article man can also
see Bulgarian position on the written and spoken
language in the Republic of Macedonia, its origin
and development and the source for political
tensions between both contries on the base of the
so-called language dispute. It is good to know the
position of your neighbours - maybe because of
this the article was published in the ONLY
Bulgarian newspaper ("Kontinent"), which can be
bought in the Republic of Macedonia.
Plamen Malinov

Gregory Dandulakis

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Nov 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/12/97

In article Krasimir Yalamov <yal...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>RE: The meaning of Zagora
...
>- there is a beautiful folk song inviting cool wind over Zagore
> (as the region is also known).

I'm sorry Krasimir, but you are probably missing the best things
associated with the stem "zagora". Both are in Greece. The
picturesque Zagoro-choria (that is, villages of Zagoria), and the
nuclear-bomb street-singer Zagoreos. A _lethal_ singer!:-)