Bog da pazi Bulgaria
Stanislav Tzolovski
Syvalyawam che shte pisha samo cherni neshta,
no towa koeto razbiram ot nowinite za Bulgaria
ne e mnogo optimistichno. Dnes goworih s moi
priyateli w Bulgaria, polojenieto e neudyrjimo:
1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
otdawna izneseni zad granica.
2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
1 kg zahar = 60 lv. Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
s levowe samo hrana.
6. Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko. To maj
ne ostana kakwo.
Kajete mi wsichko towa wyarno li e ili synuwam.
Bog da pazi Bulgaria!
Sys zdrawe,
Stivy
Daniel Belovarsky
Wyarno e, za sqzhalenie.
Ivan Marinov
Stanislav Tzolovski <tzolovsk> wrote:
>Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
> se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
W Sofiq ima hlqb. Cenata e ot 25 lw nagore.
>Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
Srednata zaplata e okolo 7000 lw.
>Prodawa se
> s levowe samo hrana.
Towa ne e wqrno. Wsichko se prodawa s lewowe, no powecheto ceni naistina
sa w dolari, i se plashta po kursa za denq w lewowe (po kurs prodawa).
>Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
> no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko.
Te maj nishto ne dyrzhat e swoite ryce... :-)
--
Ivan
---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---
max...@mbox.digsys.bg
mval...@sf.cit.bg
int...@ibm.net
---
PK # 32, BG-1336 Sofija, Bulgaria
---
The Book of Mormon - a testament of another Jesus.
Who is that General Fault and why is he reading my drive?
---
Veni Markovski
Stanislav Tzolovski said the following to All:
ST> Syvalyawam che shte pisha samo cherni neshta,
ST> no towa koeto razbiram ot nowinite za Bulgaria
ST> ne e mnogo optimistichno. Dnes goworih s moi
ST> priyateli w Bulgaria, polojenieto e neudyrjimo:
ST> 1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
ST> otdawna izneseni zad granica.
W Bulgaria edri kapitali nqma.
"Promenite" sled 10 noemwri bqha napraweni ot hora, koito ne razbiraha
obshtostopanskoto znachenie na wryzkite ni s biwshite soc. strani. Ili, ako gi
razbiraha, ne im pukashe za sydbata na dyrzhawata i naroda. Po danni ot biwshiq
vice-premier Todor Bozhinow, Bulgaria e imala pechalba ot iznos na produkciq
sled 80-e godini ot porqdyka na 800 mln - 1.2 mlrd. $ godishno! Sega nqmam nito
wreme, nito mu e mqstoto da se spiram podrobno na problemite s wynshniq dylg,
kojto e dopylnitelno breme wyrhu horata.
Interesen e faktyt, che tezi 'promeni' nastypiha tochno togawa, kogato dori i
Zhiwkow zagowori za akcionerni druzhestwa, kapitali, chuzhdestranni inwesticii
i t.n. Bulgaria imashe shansa da se prewyrne w normalna strana. No
industrialnoto proizwodstwo ot iznosno stana mestno, wmesto da prodawame stoki
nawyn, nie zapochnahme da gi wnasqme. Reshenieto (na dr. Kostov) da se zakriqt
Corecom-ite dokara na stranata t.nar. "wtora turska wylna": horata masowo
zapochnaha da pytuwat w Turciq s awtobusi i da iznasqt $ sreshtu bokluci.
Grubite smetki pokazwat preliwaneto na okolo polowin miliard $ w Turskata
ikonomika. Natrupanite prez 80-e godini pari ne se izpolzwaha za tyrgowiq sys
Zapadna Ewropa, a za tyrgowiq na drebno. Edrite TKZS-ta i APK-ta se razpadnaha,
za da se wyrnem kym minalowekownoto delene na zemqta.
Bulgaria se prewyrna (za poreden pyt!) w strana na drebniq sobstwenik, koqto
pretendira za moderna ewropejska dyrzhawa - edno nesyotwetswie, koeto izpykwa
oshte po-qrko na fona na okolnite normalni dyrzhawi.
Natrupwaneto na nowi kapitali stana ne ot pechalbi ot wynshna tyrgowiq, a ot
lyzhene na dyrzhawata i naroda: cigari i alkohol bez mita i akcizi; lihwarstwo
(bankerstwo); dyrzhawni porychki; t.nar. 'ikonomika w sqnka'...
Po tozi nachin istoriqta naprawi porednata si shega s Bulgaria, kato q ostawi w
kraq na XX wek w systoqnie kato ot kraq na XIX wek.
Promenite trqbwashe da bydat edna golqma krachka napred w razwitieto na
dyrzhawata, no ne SAMO politichesko, a i stopansko. Obache w ikonomikata tezi
'promeni' bqha edna golqma krachka nazad. Wsyshtnost se poluchi tochno kato pri
klasicite: edna krachka napred, dwe nazad. 1989-a ni otne pazarite na SIW,
izsmuka natrupanite pari, unishtozhi edroto zemedelie i Bulgaria se prewyrna w
strana na drebnite sobstwenici. Sredna klasa w Bulgaria ne beshe i ne mozhe i
da byde syzdadena. Po tozi nachin Bulgariq se prewyrna w strana na drebnite
shmekeri, na drebnite hora (i towa ne e za pryw pyt w nejnata istoriq).
ST> 2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
Hlqb pone w Sofia ima. Oswen towa se e sluchwalo i predi w nashata istoriq.
ST> 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
I towa ne e sywsem wqrno. Po wsqka weroqtnost tazi godina shte si platim 1.2
miliarda. Pri towa s mnogo prosta shema: w BNB ima okolo 600 mln. $, ot tqh
obache okolo 200 ne mogat da se pipat. W bankite ima pari na grazhdani okolo
1.2 mlrd $. Kogato bankite 'falirat', wlogowete se garantirat ot prawitelstwoto,
NO po slednata shema: shte se wryshtat parite SAMO na grazhdanite i to na
chasti, po 25 % na wseki 6 meseca. Prostata smetka pokazwa, che horata shte
finansirat dyrzhawata sys 75% ot tezi pari za period ot edna godina, sreshtu
lihwa ot 4-5 (naj-mnogo!) %.
ST> 4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
ST> Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
E, w USA se strelq i wsqka nosht. Tuk ne e po-razlichno ot tam...
ST> 5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
ST> s levowe samo hrana.
dryn-dryn! Ne za dolara, a za hranata.
ST> Kajete mi wsichko towa wyarno li e ili synuwam.
synuwash.
ST> Bog da pazi Bulgaria!
i da q pazi, kak shte q opazi ot samite bulgari?
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
ltekin
Stanislav Tzolovski (tzolovsk) wrote:
: Syvalyawam che shte pisha samo cherni neshta,
: no towa koeto razbiram ot nowinite za Bulgaria
: ne e mnogo optimistichno. Dnes goworih s moi
: priyateli w Bulgaria, polojenieto e neudyrjimo:
: 1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
: otdawna izneseni zad granica.
: 2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
: se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
: 1 kg zahar = 60 lv. Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
: 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
: 4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
: Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
: 5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
: s levowe samo hrana.
: 6. Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
: no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko. To maj
: ne ostana kakwo.
: Kajete mi wsichko towa wyarno li e ili synuwam.
: Bog da pazi Bulgaria!
: Sys zdrawe,
: Stivy
hi Silvy!
Kakto weche spomenah, ne po moq wina ne moga da QUOTE_wam i zatowa
karam nared
1-wo - "Wsichki banki falirat" - e, samo 2 sa (chastni banki) i 1 dyrzhawna. Mollow, Pyrwa Chestna, i Mineralbank.
Otnosno dolara - 130 lewa e w denq w kojto Wi pisha -19.05.96
Hlqb (pone w Sofia) ima ne o byrzo se swyrshwa.
Che si e ... mamata, mamata si e ... - towa e napylno wqrno
Moqta zaplata w momenta e 7500 lw - krajno nedostatychna
Dyrzhawata oshte ne e obqwila, che nqma da si plashta dylga, dazhe naprotiw.
4. Za strelqne se strelq i to ne pochti a wseki den - westnicite sa pylni s "Cherni hroniki"
no ne ubiwat kuco kjorawo i sakato (s malki izkljucheniq estestwenoi)
eto naprimer predi 2 dena edna 7-chlenna banda koqto beshe izwyrshila masa ubijstwa, utepa 2-ma ot nejnite chlenowe i posle gi hwanaha.
Dolar na "cherno" nqma. Toq film sprqha da go dawat. Ima si change bjura (powecheto ot tqh sprqha da rabotqt wremenno da se osyznaqt
sled skoka na dolara.
Emi towa e, i ne wqrwajte bezprekoslowno na towa, koeto Wi kazwat.
A., zabrawih za komunistite - te useshtat che gubqt pochwa pod krakata si i se opitwat (mislq) da iznesat w moi menta kolkoto se mozhe poweche
kapitali w chuzhbina (koito sa ostanali)
ltekin
Nicolas Kostoff
> 1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
> otdawna izneseni zad granica.
Sega za sega samo dve banki sa postaveni v "specialen rejim" : Mineralbank i
P@rva Chastna. Moje da se schita, obache, che zakrivaneto (de facto) na PCB e
izkliuchitelno pokazatelno - tazi banka "otglejdashe" ogromno kolichestvo
deputati i vishi d@rjavni chinovnici, na neya BNB otpusna okolo 20 mlrd leva
refinansirane BEZ OBEZPECHENIE samo za poslednata po-malko ot godina, celiya
upravitelen s@vet na BNB biaha blizki na PCB. Zatova zakrivaneto na bankata
moje da se razglejda kato indikaciya, che prikazkite za "provejdane na
ozdravitelna programa" sa neshto poveche ot poredniya balon na komunistite.
> 2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
> se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
> 1 kg zahar = 60 lv. Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
V Sofia niama problemi s hliaba, no TV, radio i vestnici tv@rdiat, che v
proviniyata ne bilo taka. Srednata zaplata e okolo $ 9000, koeto po kursa za 20
May ($1 = 116lv) e okolo $ 77, koeto si e chista podgravka.
> 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
Uvi, mnogo blizo do istinata
> 4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
E, tova ne e viarno i slava Bogu ! Policiya ima kolkoto i predi e imalo. Po-
rano pazeshe partiinite velichiya. Sega pazi bogatite.
> 5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
> s levowe samo hrana.
I tova ne e viarno. Vchera bezproblemno pazaruvah obleklo, obuvki, sapun,
preparati, knigi, muzikalni CD. Cenite v@v valuta sa samo za mal@k broi
magazini - predimno Audio-Video tehnika, vnosna domakinska tehnika, kompiutri,
koli.
> 6. Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
> no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko. To maj
> ne ostana kakwo.
Komunistite sega se chudiat kakvo da praviat stova, deto go d@rjat v r@cete si.
:-))
> Bog da pazi Bulgaria!
Mai shte se okaje verna prognozata, che "dokato ne ya dokarame do p@lna
tragediya niama da ni uvrat glavite".
> Sys zdrawe,
Dai Boje vsekimu zdrave
N. Kostoff
Dimitre Stoianov
ven...@cit.bg (Veni Markovski) wrote:
>...del...
>W Bulgaria edri kapitali nqma.
>"Promenite" sled 10 noemwri bqha napraweni ot hora, koito ne razbiraha
Malqk vqpros: zashto dojde 10 noemvri, padaneto na Berlinskata stena,
Gorbi i perestrojkata? Ot humannost na upravljavashtite ili zashto
bjaha _prinudeni_ i to po ikonomicheski prichini da napravjat neshto?
>obshtostopanskoto znachenie na wryzkite ni s biwshite soc. strani. Ili, ako gi
>razbiraha, ne im pukashe za sydbata na dyrzhawata i naroda. Po danni ot biwshiq
>vice-premier Todor Bozhinow, Bulgaria e imala pechalba ot iznos na produkciq
>sled 80-e godini ot porqdyka na 800 mln - 1.2 mlrd. $ godishno! Sega nqmam nito
>wreme, nito mu e mqstoto da se spiram podrobno na problemite s wynshniq dylg,
Taka...pri tezi pechalbi otkqde se vzeha 10-te miliarda dqlg, i to
natrupan glavno prez 80-te? Pri nachina po kojto se vodeshe
schetovodstvoto edno vreme mozheshe da se dokazhe na kniga vsichko -
sigurno i che sqm po-bogat ot Bill Gates :-). Istinata e che edna
goljama chast ot tezhkata i lekata industrii raboteha _na zaguba_. Ako
Kintex e zavqrtjal njakakva dalavera, tova ne stigashe da se balansira
vsichkoto cherveno mastilo ot dqrzhavnija tefter.
>kojto e dopylnitelno breme wyrhu horata.
>Interesen e faktyt, che tezi 'promeni' nastypiha tochno togawa, kogato dori i
>Zhiwkow zagowori za akcionerni druzhestwa, kapitali, chuzhdestranni inwesticii
A zashto go napravi, a? Zashtoto i naj-chugunenite glavi bjaha
razbrali che ikonomikata na "realnija sotzializqm" e zagubena kauza i
trjabva neshto da promenjat...No malko kqsnichko, spored men.
>i t.n. Bulgaria imashe shansa da se prewyrne w normalna strana. No
>industrialnoto proizwodstwo ot iznosno stana mestno, wmesto da prodawame stoki
>nawyn, nie zapochnahme da gi wnasqme. Reshenieto (na dr. Kostov) da se zakriqt
>Corecom-ite dokara na stranata t.nar. "wtora turska wylna": horata masowo
>zapochnaha da pytuwat w Turciq s awtobusi i da iznasqt $ sreshtu bokluci.
>Grubite smetki pokazwat preliwaneto na okolo polowin miliard $ w Turskata
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ili 10% ot vqzrastnoto naselenie e poharchilo tam sredno po $ 1000!.
Az ne si spomnjam da sqm bil tolkova bogat togava - sigurno drugite sa
se krieli ot men :-). Da ne govorim che 10% ekskurzianti sa
izlkjuchitelno zavishena tzifra ...
>ikonomika. Natrupanite prez 80-e godini pari ne se izpolzwaha za tyrgowiq sys
Natrupanite kakvo? Pari ili dqlgove?
>Zapadna Ewropa, a za tyrgowiq na drebno. Edrite TKZS-ta i APK-ta se razpadnaha,
Ami i APK-tata raboteha na zaguba! Spored spetzialistite imenno
tjahnoto (na APK) sqzdavane zabatachi naj-mnogo selskoto stopanstvo.
Ja sravni na kakvo deredzhe sa bivshite sotz. strani deto ne sa
pravili takiva eksperimenti (Polsha naprimer) i kqde sme nie.
>za da se wyrnem kym minalowekownoto delene na zemqta.
>
>Bulgaria se prewyrna (za poreden pyt!) w strana na drebniq sobstwenik, koqto
Mozhe da ne mi povjarvash, no goljama chast i ot US-ikonomikata se
krepi na debnija sobstvenik. Tova deto ni pqlneha glavite che golemoto
e po-ubavo i efektivno si e boshlaf.
>pretendira za moderna ewropejska dyrzhawa - edno nesyotwetswie, koeto izpykwa
IMHO, nie nikoga ne sme bili "moderna evropejska dqrzhava" [oh boy,
now I gonna get flamed :-)]. A za pretentziite - koj ni spira? Edin
poznat se misleshe za Napoleon :-)
>oshte po-qrko na fona na okolnite normalni dyrzhawi.
E, okolnote dqrzhavi sqshto ne bih gi narekql "moderni evropejski".
Edinstveno Gqrtzija otiva natam.
>
>Natrupwaneto na nowi kapitali stana ne ot pechalbi ot wynshna tyrgowiq, a ot
>lyzhene na dyrzhawata i naroda: cigari i alkohol bez mita i akcizi; lihwarstwo
>(bankerstwo); dyrzhawni porychki; t.nar. 'ikonomika w sqnka'...
..ili njakakva forma na pre-razpredelenie, ot edinija dzhob v drugija.
Obache - ne mozhesh da otkradnesh neshto deto go njama ili na bosija
tzqrvulite. Iskam da kazha - oshte predi da zapochnat tezi protzesi
dqrzhavata si beshe pred bankrupt.
>
>Po tozi nachin istoriqta naprawi porednata si shega s Bulgaria, kato q ostawi w
>kraq na XX wek w systoqnie kato ot kraq na XIX wek.
>
>Promenite trqbwashe da bydat edna golqma krachka napred w razwitieto na
>dyrzhawata, no ne SAMO politichesko, a i stopansko. Obache w ikonomikata tezi
>'promeni' bqha edna golqma krachka nazad. Wsyshtnost se poluchi tochno kato pri
>klasicite: edna krachka napred, dwe nazad.
(just kidding: V.I.L. li smjatash za klasik? :-))
> 1989-a ni otne pazarite na SIW,
Ami kato njamashe veche koj da kupuva _nashite_ buklutzi po prinuda.
Vikam si, na Turtzite sigurno sa im zabranjavali sqs zakon da kupuvat
v BG :-)
>izsmuka natrupanite pari, unishtozhi edroto zemedelie i Bulgaria se prewyrna w
>strana na drebnite sobstwenici. Sredna klasa w Bulgaria ne beshe i ne mozhe i
>da byde syzdadena. Po tozi nachin Bulgariq se prewyrna w strana na drebnite
>shmekeri, na drebnite hora (i towa ne e za pryw pyt w nejnata istoriq).
A kakvo ni beshe renometo prez 45-89? Just curious...
Mitko
>
> ST> 2.
Daniel Kalchev
In article <4nidpf$o...@nef.ens.fr> you wrote:
: 1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
: otdawna izneseni zad granica.
Towa si e opashata lyzha. Wsyshtnost, do dneshna data nqma nito edna
falirala banka - obsyzhda se wyprosa za eventualniq falit na pet
banki, za dwe ot koito towa e malko weroqtno.
: 2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
: se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
: 1 kg zahar = 60 lv. Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
Hlqb ima. Cenite razbira se ne sa kato predi mesec...
: 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
:-) Edwa li.
: 4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
: Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
Policiq kolkoto shtesh! Spirat te iz pytishtata sredno na wseki 50 km
za prowerka. Predpolagam che se strelq, no ako ne se strelqshe,
nqmashe da ima tolkowa oryzhejni magazini...
: 5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
: s levowe samo hrana.
Realno okolo 115 Leva. Ne se znae za koga. S Levove se prodawa wsichko
- razbira se, na syotwetnata cena.
: 6. Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
: no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko. To maj
: ne ostana kakwo.
Tyj kato nqkoj kaza che segashnata kriza celqla swalqne na komunistite
ot wlast, znachi ne dyrzhat wsichko w swoi ryce. Ako pyk go dyrzhat,
znachi neshtat shte se oprawqt. :-)
: Kajete mi wsichko towa wyarno li e ili synuwam.
Powecheto ne e wqrno, no wsyshtnost, zawisi koj s kakwi ochi gleda.
: Bog da pazi Bulgaria!
Pazi q.
Daniel
--
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Luben Boyanov
Stanislav Tzolovski wrote:
>
> Syvalyawam che shte pisha samo cherni neshta,
> no towa koeto razbiram ot nowinite za Bulgaria
> ne e mnogo optimistichno. Dnes goworih s moi
> priyateli w Bulgaria, polojenieto e neudyrjimo:
I az chuvam cherni nesta, i te naistina sa cherni i nepriqtni, no da vnesa
nqkoi utochneniq:
> 1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
> otdawna izneseni zad granica.
Veroqtno sa izneseni - ne znam - tova e logichno i taka se govori. Onq den
sa kazali, che blokirat (ili nesto takova) Purva Chasna Banka i oste edna
(ne pomnq tochno koq beshe). Ste vzema da gledam tazi vecher Po Sveta i u
nas da vidq dali nqkoq druga falira...
> 2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
> se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
> 1 kg zahar = 60 lv. Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
V Sofia ima hlqb i minalata sedmica beshe 22-25 lv., no e vuzmojno i da e
veche po 30 lv.
> 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
Po princip durjava ne falira. Obednqva, moje da ne si plasta dulgovete,
moje da devalvira valuta, etc, etc, no si ostava.
> 4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
> Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
Prestupnosto ima, i se chuva za napadeniq, koito sa nepriqtni i brutalni,
no pone za Sofia izglejda, che obekt na napadeniq sa razni firmi ili hora s
mnogo pari.
> 5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
> s levowe samo hrana.
Ne e taka - na mnogo stoki (vnosni) slagat nadcenka, no se prodavat s
levove (pone za sega). Na mnogo stoki vdignaha cenite, no sa si v levove
(vse oste).
> 6. Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
> no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko. To maj
> ne ostana kakwo.
Tova izglejda taka :-(
> Kajete mi wsichko towa wyarno li e ili synuwam.
ima i vqrno, ima i malko preuvelicheno (no skoro moje da stane realnost -
ne znam :-( ). Kato cqlo mi se struva, che budesteto ste predloji problemi
- sriv na bankite i hiperinflaciq + bezrabotica. Za momenta ne e nastupilo
(koeto ne oznachava, che skoro nqma da nastupi... :-( )
> Bog da pazi Bulgaria!
Mda - dano...
Pozdravi,
Luben
Ivan Marinov
Luben Boyanov <l...@bgcict.acad.bg> wrote:
>V Sofia ima hlqb i minalata sedmica beshe 22-25 lv., no e vuzmojno i da >e
>veche po 30 lv.
Predi 2 chasa si kupih hlqb (bql), beshe 24 lewa.
Iwan
--
________________________________________
| |
| Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski |
_ | PK 32, BG-1336 Sofija, Bulgaria |
/ ) | max...@mbox.digsys.bg |
_( (_ | _ mval...@sf.cit.bg |
( (\ \>| / ) int...@ibm.net |
(\\\\ \|/ / "The Book of Mormon - a testament |
\ / of another Jesus" |
\ _/ "Who is that General Fault and why |
/ /| is he reading my drive?" |
/ / |________________________________________|
/ /
/ /
Vladimir Alexiev
> Sega za sega samo dve banki sa postaveni v "specialen rejim" : Mineralbank i
> P@rva Chastna.
A Banka za Zemedelski Kredit? A AgroBiznes Banka (ne sym siguren za imeto)?
> Zatova zakrivaneto na bankata moje da se razglejda kato indikaciya, che
> prikazkite za "provejdane na ozdravitelna programa" sa neshto poveche ot
> poredniya balon na komunistite.
Dobre, az niama da sporia za PChB, no kakvo shte kazhete za BZK? Spored men
BZK beshe edna ot naj-chestnite i stabilni banki v stranata.
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All on May 20:
DK> In article <4nidpf$o...@nef.ens.fr> you wrote:
DK> : 1. Pochti wsichki banki falirat. Edrite kapitali
DK> : otdawna izneseni zad granica.
DK> Towa si e opashata lyzha. Wsyshtnost, do dneshna data nqma nito
DK> edna falirala banka - obsyzhda se wyprosa za eventualniq falit na
DK> pet banki, za dwe ot koito towa e malko weroqtno.
Daniel Kalchev izpada za poreden pyt w slowobludstwo. Pishe neshtata takiwa,
kakwito gi wizhda prez kriwiq makaron, kojto mu sluzhi za dalekogled. W denq,
kogato cqla Sofia gledashe kak neshtastni hora se redqt na opashki (oops,
greshka, te go praweha na 17 maj, a ne na 20-i!), za da widqt kak bankite sa
zatworeni poradi falita im.
DK> : 2. Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
DK> : se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
DK> : 1 kg zahar = 60 lv. Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
DK> Hlqb ima. Cenite razbira se ne sa kato predi mesec...
Otnowo Daniel gowori kato Maria Antoaneta. To, asly, pasti Luciano syshto ima.
DK> : 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
DK> :-) Edwa li.
Ne e qsno za kakwo se pishe 'edwa li'. Che zasega nqma pari da si plashta dylga
(oswen ako ne gi wzeme ot horata) e qsno.
DK> : 4. Strelya se pochti wseki den (ubiti 2-3 dnewno).
DK> : Prestypnost nawsyakyde. Policya nyama.
DK> Policiq kolkoto shtesh! Spirat te iz pytishtata sredno na wseki 50
DK> km za prowerka. Predpolagam che se strelq, no ako ne se strelqshe,
DK> nqmashe da ima tolkowa oryzhejni magazini...
Ili Daniel e chlen na mestnata nomenklatura, ili zhiwee w druga dyrzhawa.
Otkoga banditite si kupuwat oryzhieto w magazinite??? Olele, dryzhte me!
DK> : 5. USD $1 = 160 leva, 180 na cherno. Prodawa se
DK> : s levowe samo hrana.
DK> Realno okolo 115 Leva. Ne se znae za koga. S Levove se prodawa
DK> wsichko - razbira se, na syotwetnata cena.
Kakwo znachi "realno"? Ti da ne si reshil, che razbirash i ot finansite na edna
dyrzhawa?
DK> : Kajete mi wsichko towa wyarno li e ili synuwam.
DK> Powecheto ne e wqrno, no wsyshtnost, zawisi koj s kakwi ochi gleda.
Da, wizhda se s kakwi ochi gledash (predi wreme pak pisa, che wodata wyw Warna
ne bila mrysna or so, makar che be dostatychno da razwiesh krana na cheshmata
si, za da q widish). Shte stanesh ili za smqh, ili za plach ot podobni diwotii.
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Veni Markovski
>W Bulgaria edri kapitali nqma.
>"Promenite" sled 10 noemwri bqha napraweni ot hora, koito ne razbiraha
DS> Malqk vqpros: zashto dojde 10 noemvri, padaneto na Berlinskata
DS> stena, Gorbi i perestrojkata? Ot humannost na upravljavashtite ili
DS> zashto bjaha _prinudeni_ i to po ikonomicheski prichini da
DS> napravjat neshto?
Ti sega kakwo me pitash: wse edno da kazhesh koj naprawi Aprilskoto wyzastanie:
chorbadjiite ili naroda?
DS> - sigurno i che sqm po-bogat ot Bill Gates :-). Istinata e che edna
DS> goljama chast ot tezhkata i lekata industrii raboteha _na zaguba_.
DS> Ako Kintex e zavqrtjal njakakva dalavera, tova ne stigashe da se
DS> balansira vsichkoto cherveno mastilo ot dqrzhavnija tefter.
t.nar. ot tebe 'dalaweri' sega gi prawqt drugi firmi, wkl. US takiwa. ne
wizhdam golqma razlika.
>kojto e dopylnitelno breme wyrhu horata.
>Interesen e faktyt, che tezi 'promeni' nastypiha tochno togawa,
>kogato dori i
>Zhiwkow zagowori za akcionerni druzhestwa, kapitali, chuzhdestranni
>inwesticii
DS> A zashto go napravi, a? Zashtoto i naj-chugunenite glavi bjaha
DS> razbrali che ikonomikata na "realnija sotzializqm" e zagubena kauza
DS> i trjabva neshto da promenjat...No malko kqsnichko, spored men.
e, takiwa kato teb, deto ste na Zapad, sigurno ne ste s chuguneni glawi, a s
dyrweni, towa li iskash da kazhesh?
DS> ili 10% ot vqzrastnoto naselenie e poharchilo tam sredno po $
DS> 1000!. Az ne si spomnjam da sqm bil tolkova bogat togava - sigurno
DS> drugite sa se krieli ot men :-). Da ne govorim che 10% ekskurzianti
DS> sa izlkjuchitelno zavishena tzifra ...
ti, ako beshe bogat togawa, sega nqmashe da si w chuzhbina:-)
>Bulgaria se prewyrna (za poreden pyt!) w strana na drebniq
>sobstwenik, koqto
DS>
DS> Mozhe da ne mi povjarvash, no goljama chast i ot US-ikonomikata se
DS> krepi na debnija sobstvenik. Tova deto ni pqlneha glavite che
DS> golemoto e po-ubavo i efektivno si e boshlaf.
Bulgaria ne e US. Kojto ne razbira towa, znachi nqma smisyl da spori s drugite.
>pretendira za moderna ewropejska dyrzhawa - edno nesyotwetswie, koeto
>izpykwa
DS> IMHO, nie nikoga ne sme bili "moderna evropejska dqrzhava" [oh boy,
DS> now I gonna get flamed :-)]. A za pretentziite - koj ni spira?
DS> Edin poznat se misleshe za Napoleon :-)
Nqma da prawq publichna zabelezhka za towa kyde mozhe da ste se sreshtali s
tozi g-n.;-)
DS>
>oshte po-qrko na fona na okolnite normalni dyrzhawi.
DS> E, okolnote dqrzhavi sqshto ne bih gi narekql "moderni evropejski".
DS> Edinstveno Gqrtzija otiva natam.
Ti hodil li si w nqkoq ot tqh?
DS> ..ili njakakva forma na pre-razpredelenie, ot edinija dzhob v
DS> drugija. Obache - ne mozhesh da otkradnesh neshto deto go njama ili
DS> na bosija tzqrvulite. Iskam da kazha - oshte predi da zapochnat
DS> tezi protzesi dqrzhavata si beshe pred bankrupt.
dryn-dryn. ot takiwa erbap filosofi sme na towa deredzhe.
>
>Po tozi nachin istoriqta naprawi porednata si shega s Bulgaria, kato
>q ostawi w kraq na XX wek w systoqnie kato ot kraq na XIX wek.
> [cut]
>tochno kato pri klasicite: edna krachka napred, dwe nazad.
DS> (just kidding: V.I.L. li smjatash za klasik? :-))
struwa mi se, che zabelezhkata ti pokazwa powyrhnostno plyzgane po problemite
na stranata ni: faktyt, che q prawish za nesyshtestwenata chast ot moite
pisaniq samo potwyrzhdawa towa.
> 1989-a ni otne pazarite na SIW,
DS> Ami kato njamashe veche koj da kupuva _nashite_ buklutzi po
DS> prinuda. Vikam si, na Turtzite sigurno sa im zabranjavali sqs zakon
DS> da kupuvat v BG :-)
ili na arabite da kupuwat oryzhie ot nas.
>izsmuka natrupanite pari, unishtozhi edroto zemedelie i Bulgaria se
>prewyrna w
>strana na drebnite sobstwenici. Sredna klasa w Bulgaria ne beshe i ne
>mozhe i
>da byde syzdadena. Po tozi nachin Bulgariq se prewyrna w strana na drebnite
>shmekeri, na drebnite hora (i towa ne e za pryw pyt w nejnata istoriq).
DS> A kakvo ni beshe renometo prez 45-89? Just curious...
brej, che uporit chowek.
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> Powecheto ne e wqrno, no wsyshtnost, zawisi koj s kakwi ochi gleda.
: Da, wizhda se s kakwi ochi gledash (predi wreme pak pisa, che wodata wyw Warna
: ne bila mrysna or so, makar che be dostatychno da razwiesh krana na cheshmata
: si, za da q widish). Shte stanesh ili za smqh, ili za plach ot podobni diwotii.
: Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Veni, lichnata omraza nqma da pomogne. Wse pak sym wpechatlen, che
chowek kato teb mozhe da razlichi naftenite primesi s prosto oko -
sigurno shteshe da naprawish poweche pari, ako se beshe canil za
konsultant po towa wreme... :-)
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: W Bulgaria edri kapitali nqma.
: "Promenite" sled 10 noemwri bqha napraweni ot hora, koito ne razbiraha
: obshtostopanskoto znachenie na wryzkite ni s biwshite soc. strani.
Veni, mozhem li da smqtame che ot doskoro wyrl 'anti-komunist' si se
prewyrnal w priwyrzhenik na segashnata uprawlqwashta wyrhushka?
Prosto pitam...
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > Zatova zakrivaneto na bankata moje da se razglejda kato indikaciya, che
: > prikazkite za "provejdane na ozdravitelna programa" sa neshto poveche ot
: > poredniya balon na komunistite.
: Dobre, az niama da sporia za PChB, no kakvo shte kazhete za BZK? Spored men
: BZK beshe edna ot naj-chestnite i stabilni banki v stranata.
BZK si e chista proba 'smqna na neudobnite hora'. Wse pak, ne biwa da
se zabrawq, che dosta banki sa dawali prez poslednite godini
nesybiraemi krediti na, neka gi narechem 'symnitelni lica' :-)
Zakriwaneto na tezi banki e udoben nachin za likwidirane problema s
tezi zaemi.
Dimitar Ganchev
DK> : 3. Dyrjawata falira (ne move da si plashta dylga).
DK> :-) Edwa li.
VM> Ne e qsno za kakwo se pishe 'edwa li'. Che zasega nqma pari
VM> da si plashta dylga (oswen ako ne gi wzeme ot horata) e
VM> qsno.
Nali tocho zatowa grazhdanite niama da mogat da si wzemat dolarite ot
faliralite/zakritite banki w prodylzhenie na dwe godini, a firmite i fondaciite
- nikoga.
Regards,
\\itko
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
DK> : W Bulgaria edri kapitali nqma.
DK> : "Promenite" sled 10 noemwri bqha napraweni ot hora, koito ne
DK> razbiraha : obshtostopanskoto znachenie na wryzkite ni s biwshite
DK> soc. strani.
DK> Veni, mozhem li da smqtame che ot doskoro wyrl 'anti-komunist' si
DK> se prewyrnal w priwyrzhenik na segashnata uprawlqwashta wyrhushka?
DK> Prosto pitam...
Otgowqrqm ti - syshto tolkowa prosto, kolkoto i ti pitash: ne pomnq nqkoga da
sym bil 'wyrl anti-komunist'. Ne pomnq i da sym bil wyrl komunist. Pomnq, che
ne me prieha w Partiqta (ti mozhe bi ne si imal tozi problem) during the army,
zashtoto sym bil 'perestrojchik' (po dumite na ZKPCH-to podp. Taralov). Dobre,
che organizirahme 10-i noemwri, inache shtqh - weroqtno (pak za razlika ot teb)
- da imam problemi. Horata po sweta pomnqt kak se taksuwaha nechlenowete na
Partiqta. Razbira se, ti s twoqta pamet weroqtno ne go pomnish, taka kakto ne
pomnish, che wodata beshe zamyrsena i taka, kakto twyrdish, che hlqb ima (by
the way, towa twyrdi i zemedelskiq ministyr na 24.05.1996 g, citiram: "Az
otiwam sega w Russia da widq bratskiq sywetski narod... [cut] ... Idete w Sofia
- hlqb ima". Samo che hlqb nqma! Pone w centyra na Sofia. Kydeto ima hlqb,
idwat borcite i go izkupuwat wsichkiq.
Mnogo e typo da kazhesh neshto, koeto e tolkowa newqrno, che chak zwuchi kato
lyzha.
DK> --
DK> ====== ___ === Daniel Kalchev, Networks
DK> Coordinator ===== / / / __ ___ _/_ ==== EUnet Bulgaria,
DK> c/o Digital Systems ==== /--- / / / / /__/ / ===== Neofit
DK> Bozveli 6, Varna - 9000, Bulgaria === /___ /__/ / / /__ /
DK> ====== tel: +359 52 259135, fax: +359 52 234540 ===
DK> ======= e-mail: dan...@Bulgaria.EU.net === Connecting
DK> Europe since 1982 === http://www.eunet.bg/
DK> PGP Key fingerprint = 3F A4 CF A5 54 02 B7 AA DE FA 24 CA A5 A9
DK> A7 FB
DK> - Origin: dan...@dcave.digsys.bg (248:100/0.1)
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Veni Markovski
Hello All.
Pls, anyone help me with the following questions:
1. What is the procedure to register a domain name in the USA? .com, I mean.
2. Who is the person, responsible for this, how can I contact him/her?
3. Do they need court registration of my company?
4. Do the Registry (I guess Internic.net) needs copy of my tax registration?
5. Do they need my request in written form, with stamps and signatures?
6. Can I register a name, which is different from my company's name?
7. Do they need bank account information?
8. What if I request a name, which is a brand name or a name of a company that
may be existing in the US (I mean, am I supposed to know ALL the companies'
names in the US in order to register domain name, different from theirs?)
9. How many months does it take to register a domain name? How many times must
I talk over the phone to the person, registering the domain names? Is there
more than one person reponsible for this procedure?
I am asking you all these questions, as our local TLD administrator (he's only
one, Daniel Kalchev from Varna) is looking for all these (I may be missing
some) documents to register a domain name, and it usually takes between 1 and 4
months to get a name.
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
: DK> Powecheto ne e wqrno, no wsyshtnost, zawisi koj s kakwi ochi gleda.
DK> : Da, wizhda se s kakwi ochi gledash (predi wreme pak pisa, che
DK> wodata wyw Warna : ne bila mrysna or so, makar che be dostatychno
DK> da razwiesh krana na cheshmata : si, za da q widish). Shte stanesh
DK> ili za smqh, ili za plach ot podobni diwotii.
DK> : Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
DK> Veni, lichnata omraza nqma da pomogne.
Molq, molq. Wednyzh weche ti kazah: nqma lichna omraza ot men kym teb (mozhe bi
i obratnoto). Towa, che ti ne iskash i ne mozhesh, i ne izpylnqwash
zadylzheniqta si na TLD administrator ne zasqga s.c.b. Kym liceto Kalchev nqmam
nikakwi lichni chuwstwa, samo profesionalni.
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
ivailo izvorski
In article <1a8bab32.248.100/17...@cit.bg> ven...@cit.bg (Veni Markovski) writes:
>
>Hello All.
>
>Pls, anyone help me with the following questions:
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
>
adresyt na internic (za registracija) e:
nakratko, taksata za registracija na _domain_name_ e $100 za dve godini,
nikakvi danychni i drugi podobni dokumenti ne sa nuzhni;
ivailo
--
Ivailo Izvorski http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~izvorski
phone: (203)-432-3555
Dept of Economics, Yale University fax: (203)-432-6323
Nicolas Kostoff
Kliuki.
Sled pristiganeto na N.V. Simeon II i sv@rsheka na hliaba v Sofia se razchu
slednata fraza: "Komunistite se praviat che ima hliab i niama car", pripisvana
na R.Ralin
Po povod 24 Mai Sv. Stratiev kaza: "Naposled@k b@lgarskiyat narod nabliaga ne
na kulturata, a na FIZkulturata".
Pak v@v vr@zka s kulturata, toaletnite v parka na Nacionalniya Dvorec na
Kulturata (@g@la "P.Evtimii" i "F.Nansen"), k@deto imashe tok i topla voda dori
v gladnata i studena zima 89/90, sega sa zatvoreni.
Vchera N.V. Simeon II izbiagal ot ohranata si i tr@gnal pesh iz Sofia (vsichki
vestnici). Prichinata: po vreme na posreshtaneto mu edin telohranitel bl@snal i
s@boril na zemiata v@zrasten grajdanin. N.V. v@zmuten sliaz@l ot kolata i kazal
"Nikoga ne uprajniavaitre nasilie spriamo b@lgarski grajdani v moe pris@stvie".
N.Kostoff
Nicolas Kostoff
Vchera N.V. poseti Sofiiskiya Universitet i pris@stvuva na promociyata na
knigite "Car Simeon II" i "B@lgarskite care v Narodnoto s@branie".
V otgovor na v@prosi N.V. e kazal:
"Moeto idvane tuk e blagodarenie na svobodata, na demokraciyata, na primera,
koito malka B@lgaria dava na sveta.
Bih prepor@chal na mladite da ostanat tuk, v B@lgaria i tova, koeto sa nauchili,
da go prilojat za dobroto na Rodinata.
Polojenieto e tejko, no edna strana ne se opravia ot edin chovek, a ot
vzaimnoto usilie na vsichki, ot politicheskiya i intelektualen konsensus".
N.Kostoff
Luben Boyanov
Nicolas Kostoff wrote:
>
> Kliuki.
>
> Sled pristiganeto na N.V. Simeon II i sv@rsheka na hliaba v Sofia se razchu
> slednata fraza: "Komunistite se praviat che ima hliab i niama car", pripisvana
> na R.Ralin
Da - tova beshe i edno ot zaglaviqta na v. Standart, ili v. Trud - spored
kontroliranite ot komunistite medii izliza tochno tova - a tezi dni
naistina v Sofia ima opashki za hlqb, a po televiziqta suobstiha, che imalo
poveche proizveden hlqb !!! Okaza se, che daje granitnata televiziq otdelq
poveche vreme na Carq, otkolkoto radioto - chetoh nqkude, che v subota, po
radioto spomenali za posestenieto na Carq na posledno mqsto - na purvo bilo
nqkakvo subranie na socialistite v Silistra...
Oste malko ot vestnicite - v dneshniq v. Standrt pishe:
"Svetovnite medii komentirat s nedoumenie, che bulgarskite nacionalni radio
i televiziq se pravqt na 'ne chul, ne vidql, ne razbral'. Nad 200
chujdestranni jurnalista vurvqt po petite na Simeon i carica Margarita. ...
I dokato narodut se trese ot estestvenite lyubopitstvo i nadejda,
upravlqvastite se pravqt na strausi, kato se opitvat da zagurbqt vizitata.
... I dokato mediite i upravlqvastite gi socialisti se pravqt na udareni za
triumfalnoto vrustane na 'grajdanina' Simeon Borisov, hora ot gradove i
palanki gotvqt takova posrestane na monarha, za kakvoto nikoi ot
vlastimastite ne smee i da mechtae."
Vchera Simeon II e posetil Boyanskata curkva, kudeto e postavil cvetq vurhu
groba na Eleonora - vtorata supruga na Ferdinand I. Sled tova e posetil
Nacionalnata sportna akademiq, kudeto e poluchil pochetnata titla "doktor
honoris kauza" (?sp?). Sred izvestnite ni sportisti tam sa bili E.
Kostadinov, J Lechkov, B Mihailov, N. Sirakov, K. Balukov, L. Ganev, M.
Petrova i redica drugi. Carqt e posetil i fakultetnata bolnica po surdechna
hirurgiq "Sv. Ekaterina", kudeto e razgovarql s pacienti, lekari i sestri.
Poradi nerazpolojenie, Simeon II e otlojil posestenieto si v "Pirogov".
Simeon II e posetil i Sofiiskiq universitet "Kl. Ohridski", kudeto e
otgovarql na vuprosi na studenti.
Pozdravi,
Luben
Veni Markovski
Luben Boyanov said the following to All:
LB> Oste malko ot vestnicite - v dneshniq v. Standrt pishe:
LB> "Svetovnite medii komentirat s nedoumenie, che bulgarskite
LB> nacionalni radio i televiziq se pravqt na 'ne chul, ne vidql, ne
LB> razbral'. Nad 200 chujdestranni jurnalista vurvqt po petite na
LB> Simeon i carica Margarita. ... I dokato narodut se trese ot
LB> estestvenite lyubopitstvo i nadejda, upravlqvastite se pravqt na
LB> strausi, kato se opitvat da zagurbqt vizitata. ... I dokato
Ako pitate Daniel Kalchev, obache, shte wi kazhe, che Car Simeon II ne samo ne
e idwal w Bulgaria, no ne e car, i ne e Simeon, a oshte po-malko e II. Kakwo da
se prawi - swqt shirok, hora wsqkakwi.
Veni.
P.S. Pri towa naj-malkoto az moga da byda obqwen za monarhist ili pro-simeonski
nastroen, I guess:-))
LB> triumfalnoto vrustane na 'grajdanina' Simeon Borisov, hora ot
LB> gradove i palanki gotvqt takova posrestane na monarha, za kakvoto
LB> nikoi ot vlastimastite ne smee i da mechtae."
oswen Todor Zhiwkow (wizh poseshtenieto mu w Prawec):-)
LB> si v "Pirogov". Simeon II e posetil i Sofiiskiq universitet "Kl.
LB> Ohridski", kudeto e otgovarql na vuprosi na studenti.
da, a otwyn beshe stylpotworenie i edwam se promyknah s kolata pokraj
psuwashtite policai na krystowishteto otpred:-(
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Plamen Stanoev
Ivan Marinov (max...@mbox.digsys.bg) wrote:
> Stanislav Tzolovski <tzolovsk> wrote:
> >Nyama hlyab (towa nikoga ne sym go wyrwal che shte
> > se sluchi). 1 hlyab = 35 leva (ako go ima),
> W Sofiq ima hlqb. Cenata e ot 25 lw nagore.
vie mai prekaleno mnogo gledate TV, po koyato Shivarov uporito ubejdava, ceh
hlyab ima i to sled kato v kqshti 2 dena ne mojehme da si kupim hlyab..
V sofia predi 3-4 dena hlyab sled 9 sutrin nemashe..
v blagoevgrad polojenieto be sqshtoto..
hlyab za 25 lv veche e utopiya.. prodavat go i za 2 pqti poveche..
> >Sredna zaplata = $40 = 6000 lv.
> Srednata zaplata e okolo 7000 lw.
1$ mojesh da si kupish za 190 lv, 7000 lv < 40$..
> >Prodawa se
> > s levowe samo hrana.
> Towa ne e wqrno. Wsichko se prodawa s lewowe, no powecheto ceni naistina
> sa w dolari, i se plashta po kursa za denq w lewowe (po kurs prodawa).
> >Komunistite otdawna dyryt wsichko w swoi ryce,
> > no iskat da wzemat absolyutno wsichko.
> Te maj nishto ne dyrzhat e swoite ryce... :-)
gorkite komunisti.. nishtichko si nyamat...
no pqk zazdravihme "tradicionnite" vrqzki s bratski kitai i vietnam..
vechna drujba!!
rot front!!!
paco
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Plamen Kirilov Stanoev Technical University of Budapest |
| http://www.sch.bme.hu/~stanoev Department of Electronic Devices |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
@*** Goulden's Law of Jury Watching ***
If a jury in a criminal trial stays out for more than twenty-four
hours, it is certain to vote acquittal, save in those instances where
it votes guilty.
Ivan Marinov
sta...@balu.sch.bme.hu (Plamen Stanoev) wrote:
>> W Sofiq ima hlqb. Cenata e ot 25 lw nagore.
>vie mai prekaleno mnogo gledate TV, po koyato Shivarov uporito >ubejdava, ceh
>hlyab ima i to sled kato v kqshti 2 dena ne mojehme da si kupim >hlyab..
E, sega weche naistina nqma hlqb. No togawa, kogato pisah
postinga, wse oshte imashe w Sofiq...
>hlyab za 25 lv veche e utopiya.. prodavat go i za 2 pqti >poveche..
Dnes si kupih za 28 lewa, no e s namalen gramazh. A w sybota
hlqbyt beshe po 25 lewa za 250-gramow hlqb... Ako taka
prodylzhawa shte hodq do Dimitrowgrad (Jugoslawiq) za hlqb -
sigurno shte mi izliza po-eftino...
>1$ mojesh da si kupish za 190 lv, 7000 lv < 40$..
Za 220 wchera. A dnes sutrinta za 165.
>> Te maj nishto ne dyrzhat e swoite ryce... :-)
>gorkite komunisti.. nishtichko si nyamat...
Nishto nqmat oswen idiotskite si komsomolski glawi.
>paco
Iwan
--
Ivan
---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---
max...@mbox.digsys.bg
mval...@sf.cit.bg
int...@ibm.net
---
PK # 32, BG-1336 Sofija, Bulgaria
---
The Book of Mormon - a testament of another Jesus.
Who is that General Fault and why is he reading my drive?
---
WARNING! Flames in my mailbox are subject to a fee of one
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constitutes acceptance to these terms.
---
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> Veni, mozhem li da smqtame che ot doskoro wyrl 'anti-komunist' si
: DK> se prewyrnal w priwyrzhenik na segashnata uprawlqwashta wyrhushka?
: Otgowqrqm ti - syshto tolkowa prosto, kolkoto i ti pitash: ne pomnq nqkoga da
: sym bil 'wyrl anti-komunist'. Ne pomnq i da sym bil wyrl komunist. Pomnq, che
: ne me prieha w Partiqta (ti mozhe bi ne si imal tozi problem) during the army,
: zashtoto sym bil 'perestrojchik' (po dumite na ZKPCH-to podp. Taralov). Dobre,
: che organizirahme 10-i noemwri, inache shtqh - weroqtno (pak za razlika ot teb)
: - da imam problemi.
Syshtestwenata razlika mezhdu nas, e che az nikoga ne sym
kandidatstwal za chlen na koqto i da e partiq ili grupirowka.
: Horata po sweta pomnqt kak se taksuwaha nechlenowete na Partiqta.
Tazi struna dosta se poiztyrka naposledyk. Ne prawi dobro wpechatlenie
da pripiswash sobstwenite si neudachi na towa, che ne si bil chlen na
Partiqta.
: Razbira se, ti s twoqta pamet weroqtno ne go pomnish, taka kakto ne
: pomnish, che wodata beshe zamyrsena i taka, kakto twyrdish, che hlqb ima (by
: the way, towa twyrdi i zemedelskiq ministyr na 24.05.1996 g, citiram: "Az
: otiwam sega w Russia da widq bratskiq sywetski narod... [cut] ... Idete w Sofia
: - hlqb ima". Samo che hlqb nqma! Pone w centyra na Sofia. Kydeto ima hlqb,
: idwat borcite i go izkupuwat wsichkiq.
Towa e ochewidno wyzmozhno, no edwa li e nawsqkyde. Ti da ne bi da
imash wytreshna informaciq che prawqt towa? Ili si wizhdal kak go
prawqt?
Shto se otnasq do wodata, ti naistina li si w systoqnie da otkriesh
petrolni wyglewodorodi wyw wodata ot pryw pogled, dori i bez da q
piesh? Ako towa e taka, mozhe i da si namerish po-dobre platena
rabota... :-)
: Mnogo e typo da kazhesh neshto, koeto e tolkowa newqrno, che chak zwuchi kato
: lyzha.
Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto inache
zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
Daniel
--
====== ___ === Daniel Kalchev, Networks Coordinator
===== / / / __ ___ _/_ ==== EUnet Bulgaria, c/o Digital Systems
==== /--- / / / / /__/ / ===== Neofit Bozveli 6, Varna - 9000, Bulgaria
=== /___ /__/ / / /__ / ====== tel: +359 52 259135, fax: +359 52 234540
=== ======= e-mail: dan...@Bulgaria.EU.net
=== Connecting Europe since 1982 === http://www.eunet.bg/
PGP Key fingerprint = 3F A4 CF A5 54 02 B7 AA DE FA 24 CA A5 A9 A7 FB
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
Veni, BG-NIC ne iska pone slednite dokumenti:
: 4. Do the Registry (I guess Internic.net) needs copy of my tax registration?
: 6. Can I register a name, which is different from my company's name?
: 7. Do they need bank account information?
A slednite:
: 8. What if I request a name, which is a brand name or a name of a company that
: may be existing in the US (I mean, am I supposed to know ALL the companies'
: names in the US in order to register domain name, different from theirs?)
: 9. How many months does it take to register a domain name? How many times must
: I talk over the phone to the person, registering the domain names? Is there
: more than one person reponsible for this procedure?
sa po-skoro twoq lichna interpretaciq na faktite.
Za poweche fakti, wizh http://www.digsys.bg/bg-nic/bg-domain.html
Daniel Kalchev
BG-NIC
Veni Markovski
DK> Syshtestwenata razlika mezhdu nas, e che az nikoga ne sym
DK> kandidatstwal za chlen na koqto i da e partiq ili grupirowka.
Ne w towa e razlikata, a w towa, che az ne se pritesnqwam da si go kazwam. Shto
se otnasq do chlenstwo kydeto i da e, to ti - kato po-wyzraste - ne mozhe da si
izbegnal pionerskata organizaciq ili komsomola:-)
DK> Tazi struna dosta se poiztyrka naposledyk. Ne prawi dobro
DK> wpechatlenie da pripiswash sobstwenite si neudachi na towa, che ne
DK> si bil chlen na Partiqta.
Ne wizhdam sobstweni 'neudachi' (da ne si uchil w Russia?). Ti pishesh za men,
no ochewidno mislish za sebe si.
DK> : Razbira se, ti s twoqta pamet weroqtno ne go pomnish, taka kakto
DK> ne : pomnish, che wodata beshe zamyrsena i taka, kakto twyrdish,
DK> che hlqb ima (by : the way, towa twyrdi i zemedelskiq ministyr na
DK> 24.05.1996 g, citiram: "Az : otiwam sega w Russia da widq bratskiq
DK> sywetski narod... [cut] ... Idete w Sofia
DK> : - hlqb ima". Samo che hlqb nqma! Pone w centyra na Sofia. Kydeto
DK> ima hlqb, : idwat borcite i go izkupuwat wsichkiq.
DK> Towa e ochewidno wyzmozhno, no edwa li e nawsqkyde. Ti da ne bi da
DK> imash wytreshna informaciq che prawqt towa? Ili si wizhdal kak go
DK> prawqt?
Ne e nawsqkyde. Sluchi se na hlebarnicata na Jordanka Nikolova, tochno do
mqstoto kydeto zhiweq. Ne znam dali se e sluchwalo i drugade, no po radio
Ekspres edna zhena kazwashe, che i na neq j se e sluchilo - w druga hlebarnica.
Taka de, borcite syshto trqbwa da qdat.
DK> Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto
DK> inache zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s fakti, tolkowa i twoite. Samo che moite
pone se podkrepqt ot drugi ochewidci, a ti si goworish, che hlqb ima - i si
edinstweniqt (oswen Shiwarow), kojto go wqrwa:-))
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
ltekin
Nicolas Kostoff (nkos...@sf.cit.bg) wrote:
: Kliuki.
: Sled pristiganeto na N.V. Simeon II i sv@rsheka na hliaba v Sofia se razchu
: slednata fraza: "Komunistite se praviat che ima hliab i niama car", pripisvana
: na R.Ralin
: Po povod 24 Mai Sv. Stratiev kaza: "Naposled@k b@lgarskiyat narod nabliaga ne
: na kulturata, a na FIZkulturata".
: Pak v@v vr@zka s kulturata, toaletnite v parka na Nacionalniya Dvorec na
: Kulturata (@g@la "P.Evtimii" i "F.Nansen"), k@deto imashe tok i topla voda dori
: v gladnata i studena zima 89/90, sega sa zatvoreni.
: Vchera N.V. Simeon II izbiagal ot ohranata si i tr@gnal pesh iz Sofia (vsichki
: vestnici). Prichinata: po vreme na posreshtaneto mu edin telohranitel bl@snal i
: s@boril na zemiata v@zrasten grajdanin. N.V. v@zmuten sliaz@l ot kolata i kazal
: "Nikoga ne uprajniavaitre nasilie spriamo b@lgarski grajdani v moe pris@stvie".
: N.Kostoff
Nikola(s),
Eto kato z a tebe tochno edin witz
popitali:
Zashto w Bylgaria weche nqma hlqb?
Otgoworili im:
Zashtooto wsichki izlezli da posreshtnat carq s hlqb i sol i toj se swyrshil...
Veni Markovski
* Reply to a message in cit.soc.culture.bulgaria.
> Daniel Kalchev said the following to All (with DK>):
DK> Veni, BG-NIC ne iska pone slednite dokumenti:
DK> : 4. Do the Registry (I guess Internic.net) needs copy of my tax
DK> registration? : 6. Can I register a name, which is different from
DK> my company's name? : 7. Do they need bank account information?
I don't know why Daniel decided he is supposed to answer my questions, since
they were not sent to him in a direct, private mail, but were directed to all
the readers of s.c.b. who have registered a domain name in the US.
DK> A slednite:
DK> : 8. What if I request a name, which is a brand name or a name of a
DK> company that : may be existing in the US (I mean, am I supposed to
DK> know ALL the companies' : names in the US in order to register
DK> domain name, different from theirs?) : 9. How many months does it
DK> take to register a domain name? How many times must : I talk over
DK> the phone to the person, registering the domain names? Is there :
DK> more than one person reponsible for this procedure?
DK> sa po-skoro twoq lichna interpretaciq na faktite.
And I don't know why D.K. would feel awful about my questions - perhaps he's
hiding something from the people. I was asking the people in the US (mainly) to
tell me if they have been in touch with a real person to get their domain names,
or it's happening only in Bulgaria. Guzen negonen bqga, Danbo.
DK> Za poweche fakti, wizh http://www.digsys.bg/bg-nic/bg-domain.html
A-a, ne, mersi. Na chowek, kojto ne e legitimen za TLD administrator w stranata
(ne e naznachen po prawilata) ne zhelaq da cheta izmislenite prawila.
Nesluchajno weche imame wryzka direktno w USA - za da ne minawame prez twoite
izmisleni, typi i ogranichawashti swobodnoto razwitie na Internet w stranata.
Daniel Kalchev is a person who is using unfair competition and is blocking the
development of the Internet in the country - mainly because he's feeling like a
monopolist (although he's not), and because he's a victum of the socialist
education who was never able to overcome the problems he's facing because of
this.
I don't know of another such a case, where all the ISP in a country would send
mail against the TLD Administrator, and he would stay and not resign (ripe
doesn't care about Bulgaria internal problems, neither does iana)... Not only
he'd stay, but he'd do everything he can not to help the development of the
Internet Society in Bulgaria. Daniel - on purpose - did not register for more
than 4 months the domain name of the Bulgarian Internet Society, he is oposing
any requests for IP addresses or domain names of companies that are NOT using
his employer's company (digsys) services, and last - 'but not least' - he's
developed a domain name registration procedure which is helping him control
each and every of the domain requests MANUALLY. i.e. if one needs a domain name,
he must send snail mail (DHL is recommended, though sometimes even DHL won't
help), court registry, bank account, etc. to Mr. Kalchev, and then - after 1, 2,
or 4 months, the domain name MAY be registered. Or may be NOT.
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
CIT
phone (+359-2) 540005/6
Dimitar Ganchev
l> popitali:
l> Zashto w Bylgaria weche nqma hlqb?
l> Otgoworili im:
l> Zashtooto wsichki izlezli da posreshtnat carq s hlqb i sol i
l> toj se swyrshil...
BTW, ot wchera pone w Sofia hliab ima kolkoto iskash, no nikoj ne go kupuwa.
Regards,
\\itko
Nicolas Kostoff
> Nikola(s),
> Eto kato z a tebe tochno edin witz
~~~~~~~~~
> popitali:
> Zashto w Bylgaria weche nqma hlqb?
> Otgoworili im:
> Zashtooto wsichki izlezli da posreshtnat carq s hlqb i sol i toj se
> swyrshil...
Ne razbrah kato kak@v me velichaesh - caryat ili hliab@t ? :-)) Ne s@m
dostoen...
> * Origin: lte...@bix.com (248:100/0.1)
N.Kostoff
ltekin
Nicolas Kostoff (nkos...@sf.cit.bg) wrote:
: > Nikola(s),
Hi nikola(s),
ami ne, imah prediwd "kato za tebe" w smisyl "kato za horata, koito sa zapleneni ot monarhicheskata ideya.
Kakto znaesh sam, nashiqt narod e mnogo tochen s anekdotite i winagi kogato se poqwqwa nqkoj now, to obshto wzeto ima zashto.
Shto se otnasq do moqta skromna lichnost to az sym po-skoro rezerwiran kum N.W (ne sym protiw)
Poradi edna prosta prichina - Bylgariq e zatynala w takowa blato , che nikoj, ama nikoj, n e mozhe da q izmukne ottam.
(ih che
skapan interface ima tozi news reader:(
ltekin
Daniel Kalchev
Ivan Marinov (max...@mbox.digsys.bg) wrote:
: sta...@balu.sch.bme.hu (Plamen Stanoev) wrote:
: >> W Sofiq ima hlqb. Cenata e ot 25 lw nagore.
: >vie mai prekaleno mnogo gledate TV, po koyato Shivarov uporito >ubejdava, ceh
: >hlyab ima i to sled kato v kqshti 2 dena ne mojehme da si kupim >hlyab..
: E, sega weche naistina nqma hlqb. No togawa, kogato pisah
: postinga, wse oshte imashe w Sofiq...
"Nqma hlqb" e dosta otnositelno neshto - wcera parimer, na
namestnata furna (stawa wypros za Varna), imashe widima opashka,
weroqtno zashtoto tykmo bqha dokarali hlqb - hlqb se proizwezhda
predimno ot dyrzhawniq hlebozawod, i zatowa ne e w izlishyk kakto
po-rano. Pokraj opashkata imashe i reporterka ot Radio Varna, koqto
pitashe uporito horata, dali ne se prezapasqwat s hlqb. Horata
kupuwaha po 1-2 hlqba - hlqba beshe topyl.
I cenata mu beshe 22 leva - normaln (kakto dosega) gramazh.
Daniel
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto
: DK> inache zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
: Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s fakti, tolkowa i twoite. Samo che moite
: pone se podkrepqt ot drugi ochewidci, a ti si goworish, che hlqb ima - i si
: edinstweniqt (oswen Shiwarow), kojto go wqrwa:-))
Shto se otnasq do pshenichniq hlqb, predpochitam da go qm, a ne da
filosofstwam dali go ima ili ne, i kyde li e skrit. Fakt e che hlqb,
pone wyw Varna ima. W Sofia pochti winagi qm w restorant, i kakto
mozhe da se predpolozhi, w restoranta hlqb (ili hlebopodobni) ima.
Ima syshtestwena razlika mezhdu faktite i sluhowete, kakto ima i
mezhdu prorocite i lyzheprorocite - poslednite naposledyk se nawydiha
dosta...
ltekin
Dimitar Ganchev (mit...@cit.bg) wrote:
: l> popitali:
: l> Zashto w Bylgaria weche nqma hlqb?
: l> Otgoworili im:
: l> Zashtooto wsichki izlezli da posreshtnat carq s hlqb i sol i
: l> toj se swyrshil...
: BTW, ot wchera pone w Sofia hliab ima kolkoto iskash, no nikoj ne go kupuwa.
: Regards,
: \\itko
Toku shto se obadih na bashta si da go pitam - kupil e 3 hlqba w 11:30 sutrinta ot kwartalniq magazin.
ltekin
(Imam predwid ot kwartalniq magazin w Sofia :)
Ivailo Izvorski
In article <4p4lns$f...@news2.delphi.com> lte...@bix.com (ltekin) writes:
Ne uspjah da razbera imeto Vi. Bihte li go napisali sledvashtija pyt?
blagodarja,
Ivailo
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto
: DK> inache zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
DK> : Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s fakti, tolkowa i twoite.
DK> Samo che moite : pone se podkrepqt ot drugi ochewidci, a ti si
DK> goworish, che hlqb ima - i si : edinstweniqt (oswen Shiwarow),
DK> kojto go wqrwa:-))
DK> Shto se otnasq do pshenichniq hlqb, predpochitam da go qm, a ne da
DK> filosofstwam dali go ima ili ne, i kyde li e skrit. Fakt e che
DK> hlqb, pone wyw Varna ima. W Sofia pochti winagi qm w restorant, i
DK> kakto mozhe da se predpolozhi, w restoranta hlqb (ili hlebopodobni)
DK> ima.
Uwazhaemi dami i g-da!
Towa nenormalen chowek li go pishe ili da? Maria Antoaneta nawremeto beshe
kazala 'Kato nqma hlqb, da qdat pasti'. Liceto Kalchev preporychwa da qdem w
restoranti? 8 miliona bylgari, nachelo s pensionerite s po $ 20 /mesec pensii
da qdat w restoranti?? Drugarju Kalchev, opomnete se! Dokato ne e stanalo kysno.
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> "Nqma hlqb" e dosta otnositelno neshto - wcera parimer, na
DK> namestnata furna (stawa wypros za Varna), imashe widima opashka,
DK> weroqtno zashtoto tykmo bqha dokarali hlqb - hlqb se proizwezhda
DK> predimno ot dyrzhawniq hlebozawod, i zatowa ne e w izlishyk kakto
DK> po-rano. Pokraj opashkata imashe i reporterka ot Radio Varna, koqto
DK> pitashe uporito horata, dali ne se prezapasqwat s hlqb. Horata
DK> kupuwaha po 1-2 hlqba - hlqba beshe topyl.
DK> I cenata mu beshe 22 leva - normaln (kakto dosega) gramazh.
Nqkoj drug dali spodelq mnenieto mi, che ima neshto gnilo w DK?
Sincerely,
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> : 4. Do the Registry (I guess Internic.net) needs copy of my tax
: DK> registration? : 6. Can I register a name, which is different from
: DK> my company's name? : 7. Do they need bank account information?
: I don't know why Daniel decided he is supposed to answer my questions, since
: they were not sent to him in a direct, private mail, but were directed to all
: the readers of s.c.b. who have registered a domain name in the US.
Because Veni, s.c.b is open to discussion. Don't you think so?
: And I don't know why D.K. would feel awful about my questions - perhaps he's
: hiding something from the people. I was asking the people in the US (mainly) to
: tell me if they have been in touch with a real person to get their domain names,
: or it's happening only in Bulgaria. Guzen negonen bqga, Danbo.
I don't feel awuful Veni, to answer your questions. It is however my
duty as a BG-NIC Hostmaster to defend the registry from false
accusations made by people like you.
: DK> Za poweche fakti, wizh http://www.digsys.bg/bg-nic/bg-domain.html
: A-a, ne, mersi. Na chowek, kojto ne e legitimen za TLD administrator w stranata
: (ne e naznachen po prawilata) ne zhelaq da cheta izmislenite prawila.
A kakwi sa prawlata, spored Veni Markovski? Mozhe bi na dosta hora uk
shte im e interesno da prochetat...
Tezi prikazki za nelegitimnost may malko ponamiriswat...
: Nesluchajno weche imame wryzka direktno w USA - za da ne minawame prez twoite
: izmisleni, typi i ogranichawashti swobodnoto razwitie na Internet w stranata.
Veni, ne lyzhi horata. Wseki shto gode gramoten potrebitel znae kak se
polzwa programata traceroute.
I kakwo otnoshenie ima wryzkata ti, s registraciqta na imena w
Internet?
: Daniel Kalchev is a person who is using unfair competition and is blocking the
: development of the Internet in the country - mainly because he's feeling like a
: monopolist (although he's not), and because he's a victum of the socialist
: education who was never able to overcome the problems he's facing because of
: this.
You have yet to prove this. Interesting, how many more years you need?
: I don't know of another such a case, where all the ISP in a country would send
: mail against the TLD Administrator, and he would stay and not resign (ripe
: doesn't care about Bulgaria internal problems, neither does iana)... Not only
: he'd stay, but he'd do everything he can not to help the development of the
: Internet Society in Bulgaria. Daniel - on purpose - did not register for more
: than 4 months the domain name of the Bulgarian Internet Society, he is oposing
So Veni, you are saying that RIPE and IANA are not in their mind to
support the existing BG TLD registry?
About Internet Society - don't mess the Internet Society, with the
club you have registered with the same name.
Then again, don't publish false facts so easily - you may not know who
is reading this newsgroup...
: any requests for IP addresses or domain names of companies that are NOT using
: his employer's company (digsys) services, and last - 'but not least' - he's
: developed a domain name registration procedure which is helping him control
: each and every of the domain requests MANUALLY. i.e. if one needs a domain name,
: he must send snail mail (DHL is recommended, though sometimes even DHL won't
: help), court registry, bank account, etc. to Mr. Kalchev, and then - after 1, 2,
: or 4 months, the domain name MAY be registered. Or may be NOT.
Veni, don't tell people lies. If they want to know how to register a
domain name in Bulgaria, they can ask the registry and receive
authoritative answer.
As a matter of fact the only documents BG-NIC has been requesting
until February this year was properly filled domain name request form.
After your provocations at that time, we now request a document to
identify the existence of the applicant organization, it's legal
status and proofs of tradename ownership, if they want to register a
name other than their company name. That is it.
Nobody has ever asked any applicant for their bank account, because
the domain name registration in Bulgaria is free.
Daniel Kalchev
BG-NIC
Simon Vogel
Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> Syshtestwenata razlika mezhdu nas, e che az nikoga ne sym
: DK> kandidatstwal za chlen na koqto i da e partiq ili grupirowka.
: Ne w towa e razlikata, a w towa, che az ne se pritesnqwam da si go kazwam. Shto
: se otnasq do chlenstwo kydeto i da e, to ti - kato po-wyzraste - ne mozhe da si
: izbegnal pionerskata organizaciq ili komsomola:-)
: DK> Tazi struna dosta se poiztyrka naposledyk. Ne prawi dobro
: DK> wpechatlenie da pripiswash sobstwenite si neudachi na towa, che ne
: DK> si bil chlen na Partiqta.
: Ne wizhdam sobstweni 'neudachi' (da ne si uchil w Russia?). Ti pishesh za men,
: no ochewidno mislish za sebe si.
: DK> : Razbira se, ti s twoqta pamet weroqtno ne go pomnish, taka kakto
: DK> ne : pomnish, che wodata beshe zamyrsena i taka, kakto twyrdish,
: DK> che hlqb ima (by : the way, towa twyrdi i zemedelskiq ministyr na
: DK> 24.05.1996 g, citiram: "Az : otiwam sega w Russia da widq bratskiq
: DK> sywetski narod... [cut] ... Idete w Sofia
: DK> : - hlqb ima". Samo che hlqb nqma! Pone w centyra na Sofia. Kydeto
: DK> ima hlqb, : idwat borcite i go izkupuwat wsichkiq.
: DK> Towa e ochewidno wyzmozhno, no edwa li e nawsqkyde. Ti da ne bi da
: DK> imash wytreshna informaciq che prawqt towa? Ili si wizhdal kak go
: DK> prawqt?
: Ne e nawsqkyde. Sluchi se na hlebarnicata na Jordanka Nikolova, tochno do
: mqstoto kydeto zhiweq. Ne znam dali se e sluchwalo i drugade, no po radio
: Ekspres edna zhena kazwashe, che i na neq j se e sluchilo - w druga hlebarnica.
: Taka de, borcite syshto trqbwa da qdat.
: DK> Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto
: DK> inache zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
: Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s fakti, tolkowa i twoite. Samo che moite
: pone se podkrepqt ot drugi ochewidci, a ti si goworish, che hlqb ima - i si
: edinstweniqt (oswen Shiwarow), kojto go wqrwa:-))
Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s facti, tolkowa i twoite... no ti
roptaesh s/u negowite prikazki i twyrdish che te ne sa podkrepeni s
facti, sledowatelno i twoite ne sa.
: Sincerely, : Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> : 4. Do the Registry (I guess Internic.net) needs copy of my tax
: DK> registration? : 6. Can I register a name, which is different from
: DK> my company's name? : 7. Do they need bank account information?
DK> Because Veni, s.c.b is open to discussion. Don't you think so?
Daniel, with your narrow-minded view you can't figure out what I think, so,
please, you'd better stop trying;-))
DK> I don't feel awuful Veni, to answer your questions. It is however
DK> my duty as a BG-NIC Hostmaster to defend the registry from false
DK> accusations made by people like you.
Your duty is to fulfil the policies, and - as you know from our previous
discussions with ripe and iana, you don't follow the policy. In fact you are
stopping the development of the Internet in Bulgaria, including the _fact_ that
you're the only ISP who doesn't want to creat the national backbone for free
exchange of traffic within Bulgaria. You still charge your users when they send
mail to other ISP users as if they send it internationally, although you know
you can connect to the others at practically no cost - through your dealer and
friend from the MGU - Volin Karagiozov.
DK> : A-a, ne, mersi. Na chowek, kojto ne e legitimen za TLD
DK> administrator w stranata
DK> : (ne e naznachen po prawilata) ne zhelaq da cheta izmislenite
DK> prawila.
DK> A kakwi sa prawlata, spored Veni Markovski? Mozhe bi na dosta hora
DK> uk shte im e interesno da prochetat...
Mozhe bi. A mozhe bi i ne. Ako mnogo hora me popitat, mozhe i da procheta malko
RFC-ta i da napisha neshto, setne shte go pratq do Krasi Simonski, Miro i Sasho
w BAN, do teb i t.n. za obsyzhdane. Ti obache ne si naprawil takowa neshto,
nito nqkoga shte go naprawish, zashtoto predpochitash da napishesh prawilata
sam, wyzpolzwajki se ot poziciqta si na pyrwiq w stranata ISP (neshto podobno
be naprawil w minaloto s FidoNet). No twoeto wreme ne mozhe da prodylzhawa
bezkrajno.
DK> Tezi prikazki za nelegitimnost may malko ponamiriswat...
Ponamiriswa guznata ti sywest. I mozhe bi dolapyt ti wksyhti, kydeto stoi edin
star hlqb (nali ti qdesh samo po restoranti:-)
DK> Veni, ne lyzhi horata. Wseki shto gode gramoten potrebitel znae kak
DK> se polzwa programata traceroute.
Da. Osobeno sys www.cit.net.
DK> I kakwo otnoshenie ima wryzkata ti, s registraciqta na imena w
DK> Internet?
Ima, pone nqma da se zanimawame poweche s tebe - Welikiqt, Ednolichen, Neloqlen
i Nepowtorim TLD Administrator, naznachen ne po zaslugi, a po priwilegii.
DK> : Daniel Kalchev is a person who is using unfair competition and is
DK> blocking the : development of the Internet in the country - mainly
DK> because he's feeling like a
DK> : monopolist (although he's not), and because he's a victum of the
DK> socialist : education who was never able to overcome the problems
DK> he's facing because of : this.
DK> You have yet to prove this. Interesting, how many more years you
DK> need?
What do I have to prove? That you are unfair competitro? Or that you are
blocking the development of the Internet in Bulgaria? Or that you are a
monopolist? Or that you are a victum of the education?
DK> would stay and not resign (ripe : doesn't care about Bulgaria
DK> internal problems, neither does iana)... Not only : he'd stay, but
DK> Internet Society, he is oposing So Veni, you are saying that RIPE
DK> and IANA are not in their mind to support the existing BG TLD
DK> registry?
Read what I said, and don't misinterprete it.
DK> About Internet Society - don't mess the Internet Society, with the
DK> club you have registered with the same name.
I am talking about a legitimate organization, registered under the Bulgarian
Laws, and about the problems you have caused with registering a domain name for
it.
DK> Then again, don't publish false facts so easily - you may not know
DK> who is reading this newsgroup...
Oh, really? What do you call a false fact, my colleague?
DK> Veni, don't tell people lies. If they want to know how to register
DK> a domain name in Bulgaria, they can ask the registry and receive
DK> authoritative answer.
Danbo, Veni never tells lies. You can ask many people who don't like me (like
you;-), because I have been telling truths.
Vladimir Alexiev
> Daniel, with your narrow-minded view
Veni, if you keeped closer to facts and not ad-hominem attacks, your postings
would the credibility they deserve.
> TLD Administrator, naznachen ne po zaslugi, a po priwilegii.
Da si pyrviqt v stranata ISP *e* zasluga. Koj e shtial da pravi domain
registration, kogatone e imalo drugi ISP osven Daniel?
> What do I have to prove? That you are unfair competitro?
Yep. You said Daniel refused registration to companies that he's not the ISP
of. Can you substantiate this beyond the problems with the registration of the
Internet Society (which is an org, not a com). And BTW what's the story with
that society?
> Danbo, Veni never tells lies. You can ask many people who don't like me
> (like you;-), because I have been telling truths.
This sentence doesn't hold water: Daniel says you're lying, and you say "No,
I don't tell lies, just ask youself."
Please gentlemen keep this thread calm, don't use rhetorics, and stick to the
facts. This is a very interesting topic, but if you continue in the spirit you
kept until now, you better move it to a private discussion.
Vladimir Alexiev
> we now request a document to identify the existence of the applicant
> organization, it's legal status and proofs of tradename ownership, if they
> want to register a name other than their company name.
What is the purpose of this? In USA they registered MICR0SOFT.COM (note the
digit), is Bulgaria in such a bad shortage of domain names that this is
required? The InterNIC domain authority tries hard not to get into any legal
trouble (and I see you also include a clause "you agree to pay us any legal
fees that may occur due to your registration") and not to play judges, and
stick as much to the technical side as possible.
Someone wanted to register fuck.com, and InterNIC only said "Well, aren't you
going too far; do you really want to do this; isn't cybererotica.com enough
for you?" to which he answered there's been a thousand registrations of
pornographic establishments in the last year, what's so wrong with the name
that I want? And finally they gave it to him, because the onus of any legal
action stays on the applicant and not on NIC anyway.
When Zhivko registered bulgaria.com, did anyone asked him to prove that he is
a legal representative of that entity? Nope. I think anyone should get any
name they want on a FCFS basis.
A NIC/domain authority should make it as aeasy as possible to register a name,
and not mess with determining the "legality" of the name. Because a NIC is not
a legal authority. The responsibility rests with the applicant. If someone
else thinks they should have the name, they can sue the applicant (or more
often, buy the name from them), it's not NIC's business.
Veni Markovski
Vladimir Alexiev said the following to All:
VA> Veni, if you keeped closer to facts and not ad-hominem attacks,
VA> your postings would the credibility they deserve.
SOrry, sometimes even the calmest people get angry.
> TLD Administrator, naznachen ne po zaslugi, a po priwilegii.
VA> Da si pyrviqt v stranata ISP *e* zasluga. Koj e shtial da pravi
VA> domain registration, kogatone e imalo drugi ISP osven Daniel?
Hubawo, rawil e. Taka e zapochnal nawremeto i s FidoNet - beshe pyrwiqt i beshe
regionalen coordinator. No w edin moment pochna da prechi =- otkazwashe da
registrira nowi wyzli, etc. Syshtoto stawa sega s Internet. Imame nqkolko firmi,
organizacii i sdruzheniq s idealna cel, koito chakat meseci nared da poluchat
domain ot daniel, no toj im bawi wsqcheski dokumentite samo zashtoto te sa ne
negowi klienti. T.e. ako chowek e negow klient, poluchawa si domain-a bez
problemi. Ako obache e klient na acad.bg ili cit.bg - sorry! BAN (acad.bg) ne
sa poluchili domain ot nego w prodylzhenie na godina. syshtoto se otnasq za
Iris Systems (sega gi ima, no danbo im bawesehe registraciqta poweche ot dwa
meseca). Syshtoto se otnasq za bcs. Ili za crea.bg ili za idea.bg, ili za
bap.bg (wsichki te ne sa registrirani, zashtoto nie sme im pratili zaqwkite).
Neshto poweche, kogato az pratih zaqwki na daniel za nqkolko domaina, toj
wnezapno reshi da smeni prawilata za podawane na zaqwki (no SLED kato mu gi bqh
pratil!), zashtoto widq, che ne mozhe da kontrolira (podcheratwam dumata
kontrolira) trafik na internet w stranata. Takowa neshto nqma nikyde drugade (w
normalnite strani). Horata se opitwat da nasyrchawat razwititeo na Internet, a
ne da go spirat.
> What do I have to prove? That you are unfair competitro?
VA> Yep. You said Daniel refused registration to companies that he's
VA> not the ISP of. Can you substantiate this beyond the problems with
VA> the registration of the Internet Society (which is an org, not a
VA> com). And BTW what's the story with that society?
Problemyt na daniel e, che nqma razdelenie na com.bg ili org.bg, gov.bg, mil.bg,
int.bg i t.n. Ako go imashe towa razdelenie (kakto e w drugite strani), mozhe
bi neshtata shtqha da sa po-lesni. Internet Society beshe uchredeno prez
Decemwri 95 g. syshtiq den pratih na Daniel e-mail s informaciq za sybitieto.
After founding the Ineternet Society, we requeseted domain name isoc.bg from
the TLDA - Daniel Kalchev, and he started saying that we need to send written
and stamped and signed request, all the usual blah-blah (usual for him, unusual
for the Internet), and suddenly, when he got the written request he said that
at the same time (day, hour, minutes) he has received another written, stamped
and signed request for the same domain name - isoc.bg by the BGUUG (?). It
turned out later on, that Daniel himself is a member of the BGUUG, and the
chairman of the group is Daniel's dealer in Sofia - Volin Karagiozov from the
MGU (an university which is connected to the Internet via Daniel and is
reselling his services). That's what I call unfair copmetition - Daniel knew
from my e-mail about the ISOC, and yet he was delaying our registration while
his friend and dealer made up his own request (may be, who knows if such a
document was ever received??). In the meantime, the BGUUG started a totally
outragious compaign against the Internet Society, writing letters to isoc.org,
stating weird things (I don't want to remember all the junk that was said about
it...)...
> Danbo, Veni never tells lies. You can ask many people who don't like me
> (like you;-), because I have been telling truths.
VA> This sentence doesn't hold water: Daniel says you're lying, and you
VA> say "No, I don't tell lies, just ask youself."
No, ask people liek him (who don't like me:-)
Sincerely,
Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
Dimitar Ganchev
> TLD Administrator, naznachen ne po zaslugi, a po priwilegii.
VA> Da si pyrviqt v stranata ISP *e* zasluga. Koj e shtial da
VA> pravi domain registration, kogatone e imalo drugi ISP osven
VA> Daniel?
Ne e zasluga, a priwilegia, koiato w edin moment prestawa da byde aktualna.
Kogato w stranata ima 4-5 ISP i nito edin ot tiah (powtariam, nito edin) ne e
syglasen s nachina, po kojto Daniel wodi registyra, towa weche triabwa da e
dostatychno za preocenka na situaciata.
> What do I have to prove? That you are unfair competitro?
VA> Yep. You said Daniel refused registration to companies that
VA> he's not the ISP of. Can you substantiate this beyond the
VA> problems with the registration of the Internet Society
VA> (which is an org, not a com). And BTW what's the story with
VA> that society?
W Bylgaria niama nito org, nito com, a samo bg top level domain.
Kogato nawremeto nie iskahme da registrirame CIT.BG, Daniel kaza, che niama da
stane, ako ne sme negowi abonati. Togawa Centyryt za Izsledwane na Demokraciata
mu stabna abonat i registrira CIT.BG. Dwe sedmici sled towa Daniel be pomolen
da smeni MX recordite na registrirania weche domain s mail exchangera, kojto
togawa polzwahme, a po-kysno CID prekrati dogowora poradi ednostrannata
promiana w uslowiata ot strana na Cifrowi sistemi, no towa e druga tema.
Smianata na mail exchangera be syprowodeno s pisma ot Daniel do nashi abonati
(te ni gi prepratiha i nie mozhem da gi pokazhem na wseki, kojto pozhelae), w
koito toj im obiasniawa, che shte si imat seriozni problemi, dori i
politicheski, zashtoto izpolzwame uslugite na moskowskata mrezha GlasNet. Neise,
s tazi gimnastika CIT.BG beshe dylgo wreme edinstwenia domain, registriran w
Bylgaria, kojto ne izpolzwashe uslugite na Cifrowi sistemi. Problemi ot podobno
estestwo imaha IRIS.BG i BIS.BG, koito syshto triabwashe da se syglasiat da
stanat tehni abonati, na BIS.BG dori im be otkazano (syshto ni prepratiha
pismoto) da im se delegira IP address space, ako ne sa abonati na Cifrowi
sistemi (cherno na bialo). Sled towa nie izpratihe okolo 30 zaiawki za
registracii, popylneni ot-do i wsichki biaha wyrbnati w paket s obiasnenieto
"Nedostatychna informacia". Powtariam, w appclication forms, koito Cifrowi
sistemi biaha izpratili ne beshe ostanalo swobodno nito edno pole, wsichko
beshe popylneno, wsichki name servers i mail exchangers rabotiha, taka che nie
i do sega ne mozhem da razberem kyde e triabwalo da byde napisana tazi
dopylnitelna informacia i kakwa triabwa da byde tia.
Nie precenihme, obache, che ne si zasluzhawa da habim wreme i nerwi i weche
shte registrirame wsichki naprawo w USA, kakto naprawihme s CIT.NET (samo po
poshtata, bez da izprashtame kakwito i da bilo dokumenti). A ako wse pak se
nalozhi da prawim registracia w BG TLD, zaiawkata shte se prashta pyrwo do RIPE,
do IANA i chak togawa do Cifrowi sistemi. Taka naprawiha ot Amerikanskia
uniwersitet w Blagoewgrad za NBU.BG, inache i do den dneshen niamashe da
poluchat registraciata.
Regards,
\\itko
Vladimir Alexiev
> nqkolko firmi, organizacii i sdruzheniq s idealna cel, koito chakat meseci
> nared da poluchat domain ot daniel, no toj im bawi wsqcheski dokumentite
> samo zashtoto te sa ne negowi klienti.
Viarno li e tova be, Daniele?
> bcs... crea.bg.. idea.bg.. bap.bg
Daniele, kakvo imash da kazhesh po tova?
> nqma razdelenie na com.bg ili org.bg, gov.bg, mil.bg, int.bg i t.n. Ako go
> imashe towa razdelenie (kakto e w drugite strani), mozhe bi neshtata shtqha
> da sa po-lesni.
A, edva li. Az ne mislia, che .org ima otdelen domain authority. Mozhe bi .mil
sa otdelni...
> he said that at the same time (day, hour, minutes) he has received another
> written, stamped and signed request for the same domain name - isoc.bg by
> the BGUUG (?)
According to the rules he has posted, BGUUG can only claim bguug.bg. Daniel,
isn't this so?
> outragious compaign against the Internet Society, writing letters to
> isoc.org,
Ah, wait a sec, so there is an international ISOC; and the struggle is who
will found and control its Bulgarian chapter, is this right? Well, I think
that in this particular case you two (and all other ISPs in Bulgaria) should
make an effort and work together to merge the two competing societies you
have. We have enough examples of disadvantageous competition, eg Podkrepa and
CITUB. (I guess if you lock two Bulgarians in a cell they will draw a line in
the middle and each keep the other from his half ;-) Can't you get the two
together and elect a chairman (preferrably someone impartial) by popular vote?
Dimitar Ganchev
> outragious compaign against the Internet Society, writing letters to
> isoc.org,
VA> Ah, wait a sec, so there is an international ISOC; and the
VA> struggle is who will found and control its Bulgarian
VA> chapter, is this right? Well, I think that in this
VA> particular case you two (and all other ISPs in Bulgaria)
VA> should make an effort and work together to merge the two
VA> competing societies you have. We have enough examples of
Wyprosyt stoi malko po-inache. Zaiawkata za registracia na isoc.bg e podadena
chrez e-mail prez dekemwri '95-ta. Togawa ne e imalo dwa konkurirashti se
chapter-a. Sydebnata registracia w Bylgaria e bawen proces i za da se izpylni
iziskwaneto na daniel da poluchi podpechatana zaiawka, triabwashe da pochakame
okolo dwa-tri meseca. Prez towa wreme na daniel (ili po-skoro na volin) im e
hrumnalo da naprawiat swoj chapter. Tehnia syshto traibwa da mine prezy syda,
zatowa puskat zaiawkata ot imeto na Unix Users Groupata w syshtia den, w kojto
poluchawat podpechatanite dokumenti ot ISOC-Bulgaria (ili pone taka kazwat,
dokumentite na BGUUG taka i ne se poiawiha).
Sporyt za ISOC.BG beshe samo kulminaciata prez poslednite meseci, a ne
nachaloto na problemite s registyra, koito datirat pone ot dwe godini. Oswen
towa dali shte e registriran domain ili ne niama nishto obshto s towa koj shte
predstawliawa ISOC. Winagi mozhe da se registrira isoc-bulgaria.org ili
bulgaria.isoc.irg za broeni dni (da ne kazha chasowe).
Regards,
\\itko
ltekin
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
: DK> Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: : DK> Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto
: : DK> inache zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
: DK> : Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s fakti, tolkowa i twoite.
: DK> Samo che moite : pone se podkrepqt ot drugi ochewidci, a ti si
: DK> goworish, che hlqb ima - i si : edinstweniqt (oswen Shiwarow),
: DK> kojto go wqrwa:-))
: DK> Shto se otnasq do pshenichniq hlqb, predpochitam da go qm, a ne da
: DK> filosofstwam dali go ima ili ne, i kyde li e skrit. Fakt e che
: DK> hlqb, pone wyw Varna ima. W Sofia pochti winagi qm w restorant, i
: DK> kakto mozhe da se predpolozhi, w restoranta hlqb (ili hlebopodobni)
: DK> ima.
: Uwazhaemi dami i g-da!
: Towa nenormalen chowek li go pishe ili da? Maria Antoaneta nawremeto beshe
: kazala 'Kato nqma hlqb, da qdat pasti'. Liceto Kalchev preporychwa da qdem w
: restoranti? 8 miliona bylgari, nachelo s pensionerite s po $ 20 /mesec pensii
: da qdat w restoranti?? Drugarju Kalchev, opomnete se! Dokato ne e stanalo kysno.
: Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
: CIT
: phone (+359-2) 540005/6
Veni,
samo edno neshto iskam da te popitam - ti nikoga li ne obqdwash w restoranti i zaplatata ti $20 li e?
Pensiqta na nashite e respektiwno: 5315 lewa - bashta mi
5301 lw - majka mi
I dwamata sa sys wishe obrazowanie i sa rabotili po nad 30 godini.
Za swedenie towa e nad $35 (ne kazwam, che e mnogo)
Naj -malkata pensiq w momenta w by Bylgariq - socialno otpuskanata pensiq e 1800 lw - da rechem $14, a naj-niskata - $20 (2500-2600 lw...)
Pak powtarqm - ne kazwam, che stiga.
Georgi Karadjov
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
: DK> Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: : DK> Dobre e towa koeto prikazwash, da se podkrepq s fakti, zashtoto
: : DK> inache zwuchi kato zaqzhdane.
: DK> : Kolkoto moite prikazki sa podkrepeni s fakti, tolkowa i twoite.
: DK> Samo che moite : pone se podkrepqt ot drugi ochewidci, a ti si
: DK> goworish, che hlqb ima - i si : edinstweniqt (oswen Shiwarow),
: DK> kojto go wqrwa:-))
: DK> Shto se otnasq do pshenichniq hlqb, predpochitam da go qm, a ne da
: DK> filosofstwam dali go ima ili ne, i kyde li e skrit. Fakt e che
: DK> hlqb, pone wyw Varna ima. W Sofia pochti winagi qm w restorant, i
: DK> kakto mozhe da se predpolozhi, w restoranta hlqb (ili hlebopodobni)
: DK> ima.
: Uwazhaemi dami i g-da!
: Towa nenormalen chowek li go pishe ili da? Maria Antoaneta nawremeto beshe
: kazala 'Kato nqma hlqb, da qdat pasti'. Liceto Kalchev preporychwa da qdem w
: restoranti? 8 miliona bylgari, nachelo s pensionerite s po $ 20 /mesec pensii
: da qdat w restoranti?? Drugarju Kalchev, opomnete se! Dokato ne e stanalo kysno.
Toi choveka se e opomnil dosta odavna, shtom e v sastoianie da iade
samo v restoranty. Dazhe i tuka, v Canada, mnogo malko hora mogat da se
pohvaliat che sa v satoianie da go praviat toia nome.
Georgi Karadjov
: Veni <ve...@cit.bg>
: CIT
: phone (+359-2) 540005/6
---------------------------------------------------------------------
: Internet Direct. Have you heard about our :
: (416)233-2999, 359 lines our Do-It-Yourself Webserver? :
: T1 bandwidth, 300-28,800 bps http://web.idirect.com :
---------------------------------------------------------------------
ma...@arbornet.org
ven...@cit.bg (Veni Markovski) wrote:
>Uwazhaemi dami i g-da!
>Towa nenormalen chowek li go pishe ili da? Maria Antoaneta nawremeto beshe
>kazala 'Kato nqma hlqb, da qdat pasti'. Liceto Kalchev preporychwa da qdem w
>restoranti? 8 miliona bylgari, nachelo s pensionerite s po $ 20 /mesec pensii
>da qdat w restoranti?? Drugarju Kalchev, opomnete se! Dokato ne e stanalo kysno.
Kogato pechelish tolkowa pari i wsichkite ti ceni sa w $ e taka (sys
sigurnost pecheli poweche oot 20$/mesec...
--
Mattei Karassimeonov
ma...@arbornet.org
Veni Markovski
Georgi Karadjov said the following to All:
GK> Toi choveka se e opomnil dosta odavna, shtom e v sastoianie da
GK> iade samo v restoranty. Dazhe i tuka, v Canada, mnogo malko hora
GK> mogat da se pohvaliat che sa v satoianie da go praviat toia nome.
Zhestoko! No dali e taka ili e samo poza, koj sthe ni kazhe?
Sincerely,
Veni <ven...@cit.bg>
CIT
24 hrs phone: 0179-200667
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> I don't feel awuful Veni, to answer your questions. It is however
: DK> my duty as a BG-NIC Hostmaster to defend the registry from false
: DK> accusations made by people like you.
: Your duty is to fulfil the policies, and - as you know from our previous
: discussions with ripe and iana, you don't follow the policy.
Which policy? One which you are dreaming?
: In fact you are
: stopping the development of the Internet in Bulgaria, including the _fact_ that
: you're the only ISP who doesn't want to creat the national backbone for free
: exchange of traffic within Bulgaria. You still charge your users when they send
: mail to other ISP users as if they send it internationally, although you know
: you can connect to the others at practically no cost - through your dealer and
: friend from the MGU - Volin Karagiozov.
[this is not related to registering domain names, but...]
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you believe you can use
demagogy to convince people, then you better try elsewhere.
If you think that EUnet is "the only ISP that does not want to create
a national backbone", then why not you get together with the "other
ISP in Bulgaria" and create it? Or you need the EUnet's Bulgarian
backbone for this, I guess?
There is no way to connect to anywhere via MGU, because MGU is a
end-node of the EUnet network.
: DK> A kakwi sa prawlata, spored Veni Markovski? Mozhe bi na dosta hora
: DK> uk shte im e interesno da prochetat...
: Mozhe bi. A mozhe bi i ne. Ako mnogo hora me popitat, mozhe i da procheta malko
: RFC-ta i da napisha neshto, setne shte go pratq do Krasi Simonski, Miro i Sasho
: w BAN, do teb i t.n. za obsyzhdane.
Zashto samo do tqh? Te ot kogo sa izbrani? Shto ne wzemesh da go
publikuwash w presata, za wsenarodno obsyzhdane (a mozhe bi i
referendum)?
: Ti obache ne si naprawil takowa neshto,
Otkyde znaesh towa Veni? Teb may te nqmashe naokolo po onowa wreme...
Hodeshe po mitingi...
: nito nqkoga shte go naprawish, zashtoto predpochitash da napishesh prawilata
: sam, wyzpolzwajki se ot poziciqta si na pyrwiq w stranata ISP (neshto podobno
Rabotata na TLD administraciqta e da definira prawilata po koito se
registrirat imena w syotwetnata oblast. Druga chast ot rabotata i e da
sybludawa tezi prawila. Dejnosta na edin ili drug ISP nqma nishto obshto
s towa.
: DK> You have yet to prove this. Interesting, how many more years you
: DK> need?
: What do I have to prove? That you are unfair competitro? Or that you are
: blocking the development of the Internet in Bulgaria? Or that you are a
: monopolist? Or that you are a victum of the education?
All of this and more. :-)
How am I unfair competitor?
How do I block the development of Internet in Bulgaria?
How am I monopolist? (Isn't CIT Ltd the biggest ISP in Bulgaria with
more than 50% of the customers? - as you have posted in this newsgroup
before?)
: DK> would stay and not resign (ripe : doesn't care about Bulgaria
: DK> internal problems, neither does iana)... Not only : he'd stay, but
: DK> Internet Society, he is oposing So Veni, you are saying that RIPE
: DK> and IANA are not in their mind to support the existing BG TLD
: DK> registry?
: Read what I said, and don't misinterprete it.
Veni, You need to first learn how to quote Usenet News with your
FidoNet mail reader.
: DK> About Internet Society - don't mess the Internet Society, with the
: DK> club you have registered with the same name.
: I am talking about a legitimate organization, registered under the Bulgarian
: Laws, and about the problems you have caused with registering a domain name for
: it.
So you maintain that I have refused to register it? Or you forgot what
you meant?
Daniel
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > we now request a document to identify the existence of the applicant
: > organization, it's legal status and proofs of tradename ownership, if they
: > want to register a name other than their company name.
: What is the purpose of this?
The purpose of this is the basic requirement for the registry - to be
able to identify the domain name holder. An entity, using a certain
domain name can be subject of a legal investigation for various
reasons, including, but not limited to criminal activity in Internet.
In such cases you need more than "oh yeah, give me that domain name"
document, to identify the subject.
: In USA they registered MICR0SOFT.COM (note the digit), is Bulgaria in
: such a bad shortage of domain names that this is required?
USA has quite different legal system than the rest of the world. For
example, in USA you can copyright words - this is practicaly
impossible in the rest of the world. Therefore, Microsoft and
Micros0ft are different for the American lawyers. They are also
different from the view point of the Internet DNS.
The registration of domain names is done to handle the addressing in
Internet. It has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights. The
rules to prevent an company to register another company's name exist
to protect the registry from abuse.
: The InterNIC domain authority tries hard not to get into any legal
: trouble (and I see you also include a clause "you agree to pay us any legal
: fees that may occur due to your registration") and not to play judges, and
: stick as much to the technical side as possible.
Right. As long as you follow the published procedures, you are not
expected to have problems registering a domain name in Bulgaria.
: When Zhivko registered bulgaria.com, did anyone asked him to prove that he is
: a legal representative of that entity? Nope. I think anyone should get any
: name they want on a FCFS basis.
By the way, we have been already contacted by some government agencies
to ask what the procedures were and whether this wouldn't create any
problems. In reality however, the .COM domain is primarily intended to
register companies operating in the US. Some multinational companies,
or companies operating in other countries also register there - this is
still not encouraged.
In the case of bulgaria.com, what proof should have been requested
from Jivko? He has registered the name to his company. Anyway, the
Internic rules changed shortly after that...
If he wanted to register bulgaria.int, that would have been much, much
harder, believe me. :-)
: A NIC/domain authority should make it as aeasy as possible to register a name,
: and not mess with determining the "legality" of the name. Because a NIC is not
: a legal authority. The responsibility rests with the applicant. If someone
: else thinks they should have the name, they can sue the applicant (or more
: often, buy the name from them), it's not NIC's business.
Correct. BG-NIC does not consider the 'legality' of the name, but rather
the legality of the applicant (we have had few provocations in the
past). Do you really believe that BG-NIC makes it difficult for any
organization in Bulgaria to register a domain name? I would be
interested to hear of any such case!
As I already said, the procedures which are valid for domain name
application in Bulgaria are published for everyone to read
(http://www.digsys.bg/bg-nic/bg-domain.html). Similar or almost
identical procedures are published by most European TLD registries.
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > organization, it's legal status and proofs of tradename ownership,
: > if they want to register a name other than their company name.
DK> : What is the purpose of this?
DK> The purpose of this is the basic requirement for the registry - to
DK> be able to identify the domain name holder. An entity, using a
DK> certain domain name can be subject of a legal investigation for
DK> various reasons, including, but not limited to criminal activity in
DK> Internet. In such cases you need more than "oh yeah, give me that
DK> domain name" document, to identify the subject.
Well, when I registered cit.net in the US, noone ever asked me if such a
company existed. Anything wrong with that?
DK> The registration of domain names is done to handle the addressing
DK> in Internet. It has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights.
DK> The rules to prevent an company to register another company's name
DK> exist to protect the registry from abuse.
then why wouldn't Daniel register a service for one company? He claims only
companies can register domain names (which, of course, makes it impossible for
let's say a company in registration period to register a name). Under the
Bulgarian law, if one person decides to form a company and brings all the
documents in court, he has the right to act on behalf of this, still not
registered, company. According to our Bulgarian TLD administrator, such a
comapny is not legitimate to get a domain name. Which brings me to the point
where I can try to prove that with Mr. Kalchev - in the court.
DK> Right. As long as you follow the published procedures, you are not
DK> expected to have problems registering a domain name in Bulgaria.
Sure, but the point is that we have had and are having problems all the time -
and you stand against the development of the Internet outside of your customers.
DK> primarily intended to register companies operating in the US. Some
DK> multinational companies, or companies operating in other countries
DK> also register there - this is still not encouraged.
It's encoured by CIT, because Mr. Kalchev's private procedure to register
domain names is much more difficult than the one of INTERNIC.
DK> In the case of bulgaria.com, what proof should have been requested
DK> from Jivko?
letter from the President, the Parlament and the Prime Minister - if internic
was to follow Mr. Kalchev's room. Oh, yes, and since Bulgaria is not registered
in the court:-) - a letter from the UN.
DK> If he wanted to register bulgaria.int, that would have been much,
DK> much harder, believe me. :-)
Not saying a word to bulgaria.bg:-)))
DK> Correct. BG-NIC does not consider the 'legality' of the name, but
DK> rather the legality of the applicant (we have had few provocations
DK> in the past).
That's not true. CIT applied for a domain name crea, which is a BBS in Sofia,
that is created by a yound 16-years old SysOp, well known in Sofia. He can't
register a company (it's too expensive), so he asked us to apply. The result
was that Mr. Kalchev denied the right to have such a domain. So, imagine
someone wants to stop the development of this young boy, and register a company
with that name? Then Danbo would register the name under this company's name,
and that's it.
DK> Do you really believe that BG-NIC makes it difficult for any
DK> organization in Bulgaria to register a domain name? I would
DK> be interested to hear of any such case!
Danbo, come on! Stop kidding. Yes, there are plenty of such cases.
DK> Similar or almost
DK> identical procedures are published by most European TLD registries.
As far as I know in Denmark there's a committee where one can apply for a wrong
decision of the TLDA?
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ve...@cit.bg) wrote:
: Imame nqkolko firmi,
: organizacii i sdruzheniq s idealna cel, koito chakat meseci nared da poluchat
: domain ot daniel, no toj im bawi wsqcheski dokumentite samo zashtoto te sa ne
: negowi klienti. T.e. ako chowek e negow klient, poluchawa si domain-a bez
: problemi.
Naprimer? Kolko ot tqh sa podali zaqwki za registraciq na imena? Na kolko e
otkazano?
: Ako obache e klient na acad.bg ili cit.bg - sorry! BAN (acad.bg) ne
: sa poluchili domain ot nego w prodylzhenie na godina. syshtoto se otnasq za
: Iris Systems (sega gi ima, no danbo im bawesehe registraciqta poweche ot dwa
: meseca).
Naistina li? A dali tezi hora shte potwyrdqt towa, koeto ti twyrdish?
Mislq che dori ne znaesh za kakwo goworish, pone w tezi dwa sluchaq.
: Syshtoto se otnasq za bcs. Ili za crea.bg ili za idea.bg, ili za
: bap.bg (wsichki te ne sa registrirani, zashtoto nie sme im pratili zaqwkite).
Ot chie ime? Ot imeto na CIT Ltd. CIT Ltd ne e nito edna ot tezi organizacii
- kogato BG-NIC poluchi zaqwki ot tqh, shte gi registrira.
: Neshto poweche, kogato az pratih zaqwki na daniel za nqkolko domaina, toj
: wnezapno reshi da smeni prawilata za podawane na zaqwki (no SLED kato mu gi bqh
: pratil!), zashtoto widq, che ne mozhe da kontrolira (podcheratwam dumata
: kontrolira) trafik na internet w stranata. Takowa neshto nqma nikyde drugade (w
: normalnite strani). Horata se opitwat da nasyrchawat razwititeo na Internet, a
: ne da go spirat.
Ne stawaj smeshen Veni, kakwo obshto ima trafika s registraciqta na imena?
Kogo se nadqwash da zabludish?
Shto se otnasq do t.n. zaqwki za registraciq, koito si dal ot imeto na CIT,
razbira se, che na CIT Ltd. nqma da bydat registrirani neshta ot roda na
president.bg, bnb.bg, bsp.bg, fooutball.bg i t.n. (35 imena).
Imenata w Internet se registrirat za celite na adresaciqta, i zatowa, na edna
organizaciq se registrira po edno ime.
: > What do I have to prove? That you are unfair competitro?
: VA> Yep. You said Daniel refused registration to companies that he's
: VA> not the ISP of. Can you substantiate this beyond the problems with
: VA> the registration of the Internet Society (which is an org, not a
: VA> com). And BTW what's the story with that society?
: Problemyt na daniel e, che nqma razdelenie na com.bg ili org.bg, gov.bg, mil.bg,
: int.bg i t.n. Ako go imashe towa razdelenie (kakto e w drugite strani), mozhe
: bi neshtata shtqha da sa po-lesni.
Towa ne e moj problem. Nito e problem na BG-NIC.
: Internet Society beshe uchredeno prez
: Decemwri 95 g. syshtiq den pratih na Daniel e-mail s informaciq za sybitieto.
Towa ne e wqrno Veni, ti taka i ne prati (pylna informaciq) za tazi
organizaciq, dori i prez February, kogato tq ochewidno (po twoi sobstweni
dumi) ne beshe oshte registrirana w syda.
: After founding the Ineternet Society, we requeseted domain name isoc.bg from
: the TLDA - Daniel Kalchev, and he started saying that we need to send written
: and stamped and signed request, all the usual blah-blah (usual for him, unusual
: for the Internet), and suddenly, when he got the written request he said that
: at the same time (day, hour, minutes) he has received another written, stamped
: and signed request for the same domain name - isoc.bg by the BGUUG (?). It
Nobody said both requests came at the same minute. It is not BG-NICs job to
resolve disputes, so you had to settle this matter with BGUUG, which you have
not done!
: turned out later on, that Daniel himself is a member of the BGUUG, and the
: chairman of the group is Daniel's dealer in Sofia - Volin Karagiozov from the
: MGU (an university which is connected to the Internet via Daniel and is
By the same definition, most of the "other ISP" in Bulgaria are reselling
EUnet services, including CIT at one point of time. Are these all "my"
dealers? :-)
Also, you seem to be confused (I know by whom :), about my membership in
BGUUG - I was elected a chairman of the previous BGUUG incarnation, some
years ago. I was not member of the current BGUUG (and knew about iit as much
as I knew about your "Internet Society Bulgaria" organization), until after
the 'conflict' that you discuss has been resolved.
: reselling his services). That's what I call unfair copmetition - Daniel knew
: from my e-mail about the ISOC, and yet he was delaying our registration while
: his friend and dealer made up his own request (may be, who knows if such a
: document was ever received??). In the meantime, the BGUUG started a totally
: outragious compaign against the Internet Society, writing letters to isoc.org,
: stating weird things (I don't want to remember all the junk that was said about
: it...)...
Veni, if you had sent your domain name application back in December, as I
told you to do when you wrote "oh, we are creating an non-profit organization
now, you may be interested in it, when we say more", you would not have had
this 'problem'.
Of course, all you wanted was the provokation.
About ISOC, I still do not think you have real intention to build an ISOC
chapter in Bulgaria, especially as it seems this is proving to be a difficult
task. You had better work with BGUUG together on this.
: > Danbo, Veni never tells lies. You can ask many people who don't like me
: > (like you;-), because I have been telling truths.
: VA> This sentence doesn't hold water: Daniel says you're lying, and you
: VA> say "No, I don't tell lies, just ask youself."
: No, ask people liek him (who don't like me:-)
I have a collection of documented lies, written by you to myself, RIPE and
IANA about the above mentioned subject. I hope they will remain for my
private use...
Dimitar Ganchev
DK> Rabotata na TLD administraciqta e da definira prawilata po
DK> koito se registrirat imena w syotwetnata oblast. Druga chast
DK> ot rabotata i e da sybludawa tezi prawila. Dejnosta na edin
DK> ili drug ISP nqma nishto obshto s towa.
Hmm. Ia mi obiasni kak taka TLD administraciata niama nishto obshto s edin
konkreten ISP, sled kato i ednoto i drugoto e twojta firma?
Regards,
\\itko
Dimitar Ganchev
> In the case of bulgaria.com, what proof should have been requested
> from Jivko?
VM> letter from the President, the Parlament and the Prime
VM> Minister - if internic was to follow Mr. Kalchev's room.
VM> Oh, yes, and since Bulgaria is not registered in the
VM> court:-) - a letter from the UN.
The King of Bulgaria can register bulgaria.com, but only if he has a firm with
this name.
Regards,
\\itko
Dimitar Ganchev
DK> Imenata w Internet se registrirat za celite na adresaciqta,
DK> i zatowa, na edna organizaciq se registrira po edno ime.
Koia organizacia e registrirala DANBO.BG, mi e interesno da znam. Towa ne beshe
li twoia priakor? Az syshto pratih zaiawka da si registriram priakora mitko.bg,
no mi beshe otkazano. veni.bg - syshto.
Regards,
\\itko
Borislav Stojanov
In article <D0BC8A2C.248.100/1...@cit.bg>, mit...@cit.bg (Dimitar Ganchev) wrote:
+ DK> Imenata w Internet se registrirat za celite na adresaciqta,
+ DK> i zatowa, na edna organizaciq se registrira po edno ime.
+
+Koia organizacia e registrirala DANBO.BG, mi e interesno da znam. Towa ne
beshe
+li twoia priakor? Az syshto pratih zaiawka da si registriram priakora
mitko.bg,
+no mi beshe otkazano. veni.bg - syshto.
+
+Regards,
+\\itko
In the Beginning there was vacuum. All of a sudden the Holy (she) Spirit
popped up and created....... (suspense).... DANBOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations!!! Now, where is Eva -- Danbo doesn't want to give up his
rib.... well, no rib no Eva. According to one of the Decisions of the
former Politburo, Danbo then has to do some selfsufficietion, you know,
the right hand (optional) and so on....
Veseli razvlechenia.
--
Borislav Stojanov
Daniel Kalchev
Dimitar Ganchev (mit...@cit.bg) wrote:
: VA> Da si pyrviqt v stranata ISP *e* zasluga. Koj e shtial da
: VA> pravi domain registration, kogatone e imalo drugi ISP osven
: VA> Daniel?
: Ne e zasluga, a priwilegia, koiato w edin moment prestawa da byde aktualna.
: Kogato w stranata ima 4-5 ISP i nito edin ot tiah (powtariam, nito edin) ne e
: syglasen s nachina, po kojto Daniel wodi registyra, towa weche triabwa da e
: dostatychno za preocenka na situaciata.
I koi sa tezi 4-5 ISP w Bylgaria, koito ne sa syglasni? I s kakwo ne sa
syglasni, wse pak? Dali pone edin ot tqh ima realna predstawa kakwi sa
funkciite na TLD registyra?
Ili na nqkoi ot tqh prosto im se iska poweche 'wlast' i 'kontrol' w Internet?
: W Bylgaria niama nito org, nito com, a samo bg top level domain.
: Kogato nawremeto nie iskahme da registrirame CIT.BG, Daniel kaza, che niama da
: stane, ako ne sme negowi abonati. Togawa Centyryt za Izsledwane na Demokraciata
Towa ne e wqrno. Kazano wei beshe, che ne mozhe da se registrira ime w
Internet, ako organizaciqta ne se swyrzwa s mrezhata, dori i samo za
e-mail.
: mu stabna abonat i registrira CIT.BG. Dwe sedmici sled towa Daniel be pomolen
: da smeni MX recordite na registrirania weche domain s mail exchangera, kojto
: togawa polzwahme, a po-kysno CID prekrati dogowora poradi ednostrannata
: promiana w uslowiata ot strana na Cifrowi sistemi, no towa e druga tema.
Nqkolko meseca, bih kazal. Ne e nuzhno da spekulirash s towa kakwo
naprawil centyra za izsledwane na demokraciqta, zashtoto te po-dobre
znaqt towa.
: Smianata na mail exchangera be syprowodeno s pisma ot Daniel do nashi abonati
: (te ni gi prepratiha i nie mozhem da gi pokazhem na wseki, kojto pozhelae), w
: koito toj im obiasniawa, che shte si imat seriozni problemi, dori i
: politicheski, zashtoto izpolzwame uslugite na moskowskata mrezha GlasNet. Neise,
Shto ne wzemsh da go publikuwash? Shte byde mnogo interesen 'fakt' w
podkrepa na pisaniqta wi.
: s tazi gimnastika CIT.BG beshe dylgo wreme edinstwenia domain, registriran w
: Bylgaria, kojto ne izpolzwashe uslugite na Cifrowi sistemi. Problemi ot podobno
Towa syshto ne e wqrno. Mnogo predi CIT izobshto da se swyrzhe kym
mrezhata, w BG imashe domain imena, koito ne se obsluzhwat ot EUnet.
Dali edna organizaciq se obsluzhwa ot edin ili drug ISP nqmam nikakwo
znachenie za registraciqta, dokolkoto towa obsluzhwane dejsteitelno
syshtestwuwa.
: estestwo imaha IRIS.BG i BIS.BG, koito syshto triabwashe da se syglasiat da
: stanat tehni abonati, na BIS.BG dori im be otkazano (syshto ni prepratiha
: pismoto) da im se delegira IP address space, ako ne sa abonati na Cifrowi
: sistemi (cherno na bialo). Sled towa nie izpratihe okolo 30 zaiawki za
Shto se otnasq do BIS, ne e problem na BG-NIC, che te ne mogat da
popylnqt imeto na firmata si na formulqra za registraciq.
Kolkoto do IP adresite, mislq che ti Mitko, prosto ne si w chas.
: registracii, popylneni ot-do i wsichki biaha wyrbnati w paket s obiasnenieto
: "Nedostatychna informacia". Powtariam, w appclication forms, koito Cifrowi
: sistemi biaha izpratili ne beshe ostanalo swobodno nito edno pole, wsichko
: beshe popylneno, wsichki name servers i mail exchangers rabotiha, taka che nie
: i do sega ne mozhem da razberem kyde e triabwalo da byde napisana tazi
: dopylnitelna informacia i kakwa triabwa da byde tia.
Ne sywsem. Posocheni bqha pone tri prichini za ne-registriraneto na
tezi imena. Zabrawi da napishesh, che tezi imena se iskaha da bydat
registrirani na imeto na CIT Ltd.
Kakto weche stana wypros, imenata w Internet se registrirat za i ot
wsqka organizaciq, a ne na tehniq "ISP".
: Nie precenihme, obache, che ne si zasluzhawa da habim wreme i nerwi i weche
: shte registrirame wsichki naprawo w USA, kakto naprawihme s CIT.NET (samo po
: poshtata, bez da izprashtame kakwito i da bilo dokumenti). A ako wse pak se
: nalozhi da prawim registracia w BG TLD, zaiawkata shte se prashta pyrwo do RIPE,
: do IANA i chak togawa do Cifrowi sistemi. Taka naprawiha ot Amerikanskia
: uniwersitet w Blagoewgrad za NBU.BG, inache i do den dneshen niamashe da
: poluchat registraciata.
Mnogo interesno. Dali i te (AUBG) mislqt wse oshte taka? I dali izobshto
bqha podali zaqwka za registraciq, kogato se oplakaha che sled kato pratili
'domain' obekt w RIPE DB imeto ne se registriralo awtomatichno w BG
TLD?
Vladimir Alexiev
In article <4pui58$i...@dsvme.digsys.bg> dan...@dcave.digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) writes:
> basic requirement for the registry - to be able to identify the domain name
> holder.
OK then, ask for a copy of the applicant's passport. Or private citizens can't
register a domain, only organisations?
> An entity, using a certain domain name can be subject of a legal
> investigation for various reasons, including, but not limited to criminal
> activity in Internet.
Which government agency has asked you explicitly to have that information on
file? I think if the government cares at all about criminal activity on the
internet, they would have the brains to get to the perpetrator even if they
have provided a fake home address. The perpetrator can be using someone
else's domain, for that matter.
I think the farther a domain autority stays from any legal issues, the better
for everyone concerned. The domain authority has no legal authority
whatsoever (correct me if I'm wrong), it only has technical authority.
> Microsoft and Micros0ft are different for the American lawyers.
I doubt it very much. I suspect that if you register a software company by
that name, MS's lawyers will be all over you in no time flat. In any case,
it's not for the DNS authority to decide the legality of names. All
responsibility for that rests with the name holder. You state the same
explicitly in your rules, yet purport to be a legal authority in deciding
who's got the right to have a name and who hasn't.
> The registration of domain names is done to handle the addressing in
> Internet. It has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights.
Exactly my point. Neither it is done in order to facilitate law enforcement
with information about the name holder. So if there is no other reason, I
don't see why you have to ask for any legal papers.
> The rules to prevent an company to register another company's name exist to
> protect the registry from abuse.
Have you had any abuse yet? USA definitely had abuse (what else is
MICROS0FT?), yet the only measure they took was to introduce a registration
fee (which may have been introduced for financial and not political purposes
anyway). And they only took this measure *after* they got abuse, and after so
many people started registering domains that conflicts began to appear.
Your current status is that *you* are being accused of abuse: abuse of
technical authority for political reasons. I think you have to loosen the
rules if you want to clean up your name.
> As long as you follow the published procedures, you are not expected to have
> problems registering a domain name in Bulgaria.
The question is how long does it take, and how inconvenient the procedures are
for the applicants. If your procedures include "do a triple sommersault with a
double flip", people will find it hard to follow them.
> : When Zhivko registered bulgaria.com, did anyone asked him to prove
> we have been already contacted by some government agencies to ask what the
> procedures were
Whose procedures? I meant the registration of bulgaria.com in the USA.
> and whether this wouldn't create any problems.
Problems for who? If RB wants the name bulgaria.com very badly, they can pay
Zhivko for it. I don't think he would refuse a reasonable offer :-)
> In reality however, the .COM domain is primarily intended to register
> companies operating in the US.
Yes, I meant bulgaria.com in the USA.
> In the case of bulgaria.com, what proof should have been requested from
> Jivko? He has registered the name to his company.
I got the impression that your rules state "you can only get a domain name
that corresponds to the name of your company". Correct me if I'm wrong.
Zhivko would have definitely had problems satisfying such a requirement :-)
> BG-NIC does not consider the 'legality' of the name, but rather the legality
> of the applicant
Well it shouldn't. You have no legal authority whatsoever, and making such
decisions is abuse of authority, IMHO.
> (we have had few provocations in the past).
"Provocations"? What kind of fucking term is this? It surely doesn't sound
very legal to me. Who decides what's a provocation and what isn't?
> Do you really believe that BG-NIC makes it difficult for any organization in
> Bulgaria to register a domain name?
After the cases Veni cited, yes. I still have to read your replies to those
accusations, which I assume you have made promptly.
> the procedures which are valid for domain name application in Bulgaria are
> published for everyone to read
Ok, let's go over them. Do you have any formal procedure for amendments to
these rules? I assume a DNS should be governed to a large degree like a
popular democracy.
> developed policies and procedures based on discussions with service
> providers and network experts both within and outside Bulgaria
Good, this would mean you should be open to further suggestions from ISPs.
> 2.3: The legal status (statutory body, semi-state,
> type of corporate body: plc, ltd, ...) This should be proved with a
> court decision or some other legal document.
What for? Can non-legal entities (persons) register domains?
> 3.4: A domain name shall correspond with reasonable closeness
> to the name of the applicant or to an abbreviation or trademark
> by which the applicant is well known.
Why? Have you had cases of abuse to justify this? Who decides what "well
known" means? If it's a new company that isn't known at all yet, then what?
Why is there to time period specified in which the DNS is obliged to complete
the registration?
Regards, Vladimir
Vladimir Alexiev
> CIT applied for a domain name crea, which is a BBS in Sofia, that is created
> by a yound 16-years old SysOp, well known in Sofia. He can't register a
> company (it's too expensive), so he asked us to apply.
If there is no name CREA yet, I don't see why that boy shouldn't get the name.
What's wrong with him getting that name?
I just got an idea: why doesn't DigSys "sublicense" CIT with DNS authority for
clients who use CIT as their ISP? DigSys would make DNS entries for names
supplied by CIT in "batch mode", and the responsibility for any legal problems
with these names will rest with CIT, or with whoever they arrange it. CIT can
institute whatever rules they see fit. And only in the case of a name conflict
between two customers of DigSys and CIT would negotiations be necessary.
Vladimir Alexiev
> It is not BG-NICs job to resolve disputes, so you had to settle this matter
> with BGUUG, which you have not done!
Did BGUUG get the name isoc.bg or not? If it did, then you *have* taken the
job of resolving disputes, and in a rather unilateral way.
> ... after the 'conflict' that you discuss has been resolved.
Who resolved this conflict? Since you say CIT didn't, was it BGUUG alone?
> About ISOC, I still do not think you have real intention to build an ISOC
> chapter in Bulgaria, especially as it seems this is proving to be a
> difficult task.
You can only say this in an inofficial capacity, not as a TLD official.
Daniel, since your position ivolves conflict of interest, you should be very
careful about your actions and words if you care about your clean name. Kakto
e kazal narodyt "Kogato si v chuzhd bostan, ne se navezhdaj dazhe za da si
zavyrzhesh obuvkite".
> You had better work with BGUUG together on this.
With this I agree. I suspect there is profit (in one or another form)
associated with this non-profit society, otherwise why would there be a
conflict over who runs it?
Dimitar Ganchev
DK> : Smianata na mail exchangera be syprowodeno s pisma ot
DK> Daniel do nashi abonati : (te ni gi prepratiha i nie mozhem
DK> da gi pokazhem na wseki, kojto pozhelae), w : koito toj im
DK> obiasniawa, che shte si imat seriozni problemi, dori i :
DK> politicheski, zashtoto izpolzwame uslugite na moskowskata
DK> mrezha GlasNet. Neise,
DK> Shto ne wzemsh da go publikuwash? Shte byde mnogo interesen
DK> 'fakt' w podkrepa na pisaniqta wi.
Zashtoto e fax - hard copy na hartia. No shte se postaraia da go scaniram i
shte go postna MIME-nat.
DK> : s tazi gimnastika CIT.BG beshe dylgo wreme edinstwenia
DK> domain, registriran w : Bylgaria, kojto ne izpolzwashe
DK> uslugite na Cifrowi sistemi. Problemi ot podobno
DK> Towa syshto ne e wqrno. Mnogo predi CIT izobshto da se
DK> swyrzhe kym mrezhata, w BG imashe domain imena, koito ne se
DK> obsluzhwat ot EUnet. Dali edna organizaciq se obsluzhwa ot
DK> edin ili drug ISP nqmam nikakwo znachenie za registraciqta,
DK> dokolkoto towa obsluzhwane dejsteitelno syshtestwuwa.
Imam store-nat "ls" na name servera ti (predi da se setish da zabranish zone
transfera) i tam ima tochno 1 (edin) domain, kojto ne se obsluzhwa ot EUnet. W
edna ot direktoriite na name servera w ofisa mi e, dano utre se setia da go
postna.
DK> : estestwo imaha IRIS.BG i BIS.BG, koito syshto triabwashe
DK> da se syglasiat da : stanat tehni abonati, na BIS.BG dori
DK> im be otkazano (syshto ni prepratiha : pismoto) da im se
DK> delegira IP address space, ako ne sa abonati na Cifrowi :
DK> sistemi (cherno na bialo). Sled towa nie izpratihe okolo 30
DK> zaiawki za
DK> Shto se otnasq do BIS, ne e problem na BG-NIC, che te ne
DK> mogat da popylnqt imeto na firmata si na formulqra za
DK> registraciq.
Imeto na firmata e "ednolichen tyrgowec Aleksander Zwezdew" i ne sywpada s BIS.
Mozhe bi triabwashe da registrirat ednolichentyrgowecaleksanderzwezdev.bg? BTW,
imeto na firmata, koiato eksploatira tyrgowskata marka "Mobifon" e
radiotelekomunikacionnakompania.bg. Triabwa da predlozha na mfa.cit.bg da se
registrirat kato ministerstwonawynshniteraboti.bg. Compuserve.com syshto ne se
eksploatira ot firma s towa ime; sprint.com se ekspolatira ot Global One...
Nejse. Az se izmorih da obiasniawam zashto niama logika edna firma da mozhe da
registrira samo sobstwenoto si ime i tochno nego, iawno problemyt ne e w towa,
che ne se izraziawam iasno...
DK> Kolkoto do IP adresite, mislq che ti Mitko, prosto ne si w
DK> chas.
Sasho Zvezdev mi preprato syobshtenieto ti, taka che sym.
DK> : registracii, popylneni ot-do i wsichki biaha wyrbnati w
DK> paket s obiasnenieto : "Nedostatychna informacia".
DK> Powtariam, w appclication forms, koito Cifrowi : sistemi
DK> biaha izpratili ne beshe ostanalo swobodno nito edno pole,
DK> wsichko : beshe popylneno, wsichki name servers i mail
DK> exchangers rabotiha, taka che nie : i do sega ne mozhem da
DK> razberem kyde e triabwalo da byde napisana tazi :
DK> dopylnitelna informacia i kakwa triabwa da byde tia.
DK> Ne sywsem. Posocheni bqha pone tri prichini za
DK> ne-registriraneto na tezi imena. Zabrawi da napishesh, che
DK> tezi imena se iskaha da bydat registrirani na imeto na CIT
DK> Ltd.
Ami da, razbira se. Zashto ne? Kak mozhe javasoft.com da e registrirana na SUN,
sled kato te weche si imat sun.com? Zasho msn.com e registrirana na Microsoft,
sled kato weche imat microsoft.com... Da ne goworim za danbo.bg, kojto si ima
digsys.bg.
A 3-te prichini biaha: 1. Neodtatychna informacia. 2. NIakoi ot imenata sa
izwestni tyrgowski marki na drugi firmi. 3. CIT ima weche registrirano ime.
Niama smisyl da gi komentiram.
DK> Kakto weche stana wypros, imenata w Internet se registrirat
DK> za i ot wsqka organizaciq, a ne na tehniq "ISP".
Che koj e kazal, che imenata sa za drugi organizacii? Az iskah mitko.bg za sebe
si, za da si naprawia web server, zashtoto http://www.cit.bg/~mitko ne e
dostatychno personalno, pyk i sled wereme mozhe da ne rabotia w CIT i da niamam
miasto w tehnia server. veni.bg - analogichno. Pyk i ne sym dlyzhen da
obiasniawam zashto iskam da se registrira imeto. Iskam go i tolkowa. Mozhe pyk
da e tyrgowska tajna, zashto da ti ia kazwam? Drugi zaiawki pyk biaha za imena
na uslugi, koito nie predlagame (citcom, citnet, etc.) i syshto ne sme dlyzhni
da dawame na TLD administratora obiasnenie kakwo predstawliawat.
DK> : Nie precenihme, obache, che ne si zasluzhawa da habim
DK> wreme i nerwi i weche : shte registrirame wsichki naprawo w
DK> USA, kakto naprawihme s CIT.NET (samo po : poshtata, bez da
DK> izprashtame kakwito i da bilo dokumenti). A ako wse pak se
DK> : nalozhi da prawim registracia w BG TLD, zaiawkata shte se
DK> prashta pyrwo do RIPE,
DK> : do IANA i chak togawa do Cifrowi sistemi. Taka naprawiha
DK> ot Amerikanskia : uniwersitet w Blagoewgrad za NBU.BG,
DK> inache i do den dneshen niamashe da : poluchat
DK> registraciata.
DK> Mnogo interesno. Dali i te (AUBG) mislqt wse oshte taka? I
DK> dali izobshto bqha podali zaqwka za registraciq, kogato se
DK> oplakaha che sled kato pratili 'domain' obekt w RIPE DB
DK> imeto ne se registriralo awtomatichno w BG TLD?
Biaha i ti ia beshe wyrnal, zashtoto triabwalo da ia pratiat ot imeto na NBU,
shtom iskat towa ime. <A HREF=mailto:kr...@aubg.bg> Krasi Simonski </A> ne bil
otoriziran da prashta zaiawki. Ne e etichno da publikuwam poshtata na Krasi do
IANA i RIPE, koiato toj ni preprashtashe, no shte go popitam. Pazim ia w
arhiwite.
Regards,
\\itko
Dimitar Bojantchev
>
> DK> Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
>
>: > organization, it's legal status and proofs of tradename ownership,
>: > if they want to register a name other than their company name.
>
> DK> : What is the purpose of this?
>
> DK> The purpose of this is the basic requirement for the registry - to
> DK> be able to identify the domain name holder. An entity, using a
> DK> certain domain name can be subject of a legal investigation for
> DK> various reasons, including, but not limited to criminal activity in
> DK> Internet. In such cases you need more than "oh yeah, give me that
> DK> domain name" document, to identify the subject.
>
>Well, when I registered cit.net in the US, noone ever asked me if such a
>company existed. Anything wrong with that?
I am not sure why a company name is necessary at all in order to
register a domain name? But it is interesting to compare to some other
European country, let's say Germany. Are there similar bureaucratic
stoppages for domain registration or this is something going on in
Bulgaria only?
Dimitar
P.S. Can someone explain better the map of who is who on the net in
Bulgaria. The topic has always seen very ambiguous to me -- is that on
purpose? It appears that noone knows who is doing what, is capable of
what, or responsible for what... Its almost like, if you wanna get
something done, you gotta go to a cousin, friend, etc. Like a little
village. That's why I hate having anything to do with this system.
Nothings comes easy and straightforward... Za vsyako neshto se iska da
celuvash zadnik. Aman.
--
===============================================================================
Dimitar Bojantchev dim...@pontix.com or dim...@netcom.com
Pontix Consulting, Inc. http://www.pontix.com/
Personal Info http://www.pontix.com/dimitar.shtml
formerly d.b.a. Open Software Solutions
===============================================================================
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> I koi sa tezi 4-5 ISP w Bylgaria, koito ne sa syglasni? I s kakwo
DK> ne sa syglasni, wse pak? Dali pone edin ot tqh ima realna predstawa
DK> kakwi sa funkciite na TLD registyra?
DK> Ili na nqkoi ot tqh prosto im se iska poweche 'wlast' i 'kontrol' w
DK> Internet?
che kakwa poweche wlast i kontorl, otkolkoto imash ti? shto si prawish majtap s
horata po sweta i u nas?
DK> : Kogato nawremeto nie iskahme da registrirame CIT.BG, Daniel kaza,
DK> che niama da : stane, ako ne sme negowi abonati.
DK> Towa ne e wqrno. Kazano wei beshe, che ne mozhe da se registrira
DK> ime w Internet, ako organizaciqta ne se swyrzwa s mrezhata, dori i
DK> samo za e-mail.
aha, znachi swyrzana s mrezhata? s EuNet, che ti e po-lesno. Oshte ima hora,
koito pomnqt kakwo goworeshe po powod na towa, che nashata poshta ne minawa
prez Varna - Volin Karagiozov dori widq towa cherno na bqlo (na hartiq) - pitaj
go.
DK> Nqkolko meseca, bih kazal. Ne e nuzhno da spekulirash s towa kakwo
DK> naprawil centyra za izsledwane na demokraciqta, zashtoto te
DK> po-dobre znaqt towa.
Da, no ti maj ne go znaesh, zashtoto oshte twyrdish, che KIT ti e dlyzhnik:-)
DK> : Smianata na mail exchangera be syprowodeno s pisma ot Daniel do
DK> nashi abonati : (te ni gi prepratiha i nie mozhem da gi pokazhem
DK> na wseki, kojto pozhelae), w : koito toj im obiasniawa, che shte
DK> si imat seriozni problemi, dori i : politicheski, zashtoto
DK> izpolzwame uslugite na moskowskata mrezha GlasNet. Neise,
DK> Shto ne wzemsh da go publikuwash? Shte byde mnogo interesen 'fakt'
DK> w podkrepa na pisaniqta wi.
Zashtoto e faks, nqma kak da go publikuwam, oswen ako ne go napisha na ryka -
wprochem towa e dobra ideq, no ti mozhe da pitash Volin - toj go e wizhdal.
DK> : s tazi gimnastika CIT.BG beshe dylgo wreme edinstwenia domain,
DK> registriran w : Bylgaria, kojto ne izpolzwashe uslugite na Cifrowi
DK> sistemi. Problemi ot podobno
DK> Towa syshto ne e wqrno. Mnogo predi CIT izobshto da se swyrzhe kym
DK> mrezhata, w BG imashe domain imena, koito ne se obsluzhwat ot
DK> EUnet. Dali edna organizaciq se obsluzhwa ot edin ili drug ISP
DK> nqmam nikakwo znachenie za registraciqta, dokolkoto towa
DK> obsluzhwane dejsteitelno syshtestwuwa.
Prazni prikazki - ne moga da razbera sled kato znaesh, che ne e taka, zashto
pishesh podobni gluposti?
DK> : registracii, popylneni ot-do i wsichki biaha wyrbnati w paket s
DK> obiasnenieto : "Nedostatychna informacia". Powtariam, w
DK> appclication forms, koito Cifrowi : sistemi biaha izpratili ne
DK> beshe ostanalo swobodno nito edno pole, wsichko : beshe popylneno,
DK> wsichki name servers i mail exchangers rabotiha, taka che nie : i
DK> do sega ne mozhem da razberem kyde e triabwalo da byde napisana
DK> tazi : dopylnitelna informacia i kakwa triabwa da byde tia.
DK> Ne sywsem. Posocheni bqha pone tri prichini za ne-registriraneto na
posochena be 1 prichina - insufficient information. Sorry, no da si izmislil
drugite dwe nawremeto, a ne sega. Shte se porowq po arhiwite, ako imam wreme, i
shte ti pratq kopiq ot twoite pisma.
Porowih se i otkrih slednoto:
--- forwarded message follows
Area : Received
Date : Sat Feb 17, 12:35 pvt rcv kil
From : BG-NIC Hostmaster 248:100/2
To : Veni Markovski 248:100/17
Subj : Domain name applications
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mr. Veni Markovski,
After reviewing your domain name application, made on behalf of CIT Ltd. for
the following domain names:
arc
bap
bgisoc
bguug
bnb
bsp
btc
bulgaria-isoc
ce
citcom
citnet
cpd
csd
exco
football
idea
infoserve
intercontinental
internet
isoc
isoc-b
isoc-bg
isoc-bulgaria
mitko
president
prosoft
sheraton
sys
systems
tron
veni
xax
zagorka
crea
The BG top-level domain registry will NOT register those domain names to CIT
Ltd, because of the following reasons:
1. Insufficient information.
2. It is likely that most of these domain names will be claimed by
organizations that are well known under the respective names.
3. CIT Ltd already has registered domain name(s).
--- end of forwarded message
Sega da razgledame imenata: bnb, exco, prosoft, sheraton, zagorka
za ochewidno imena na izwestni na teb organizacii. Az obache ne sym dlyzhen da
znam, che syshtestwuwat takiwa organizacii wyobshte (nqkyde si), shtom gi nqma
w nslookup. Ne znam zashto, obache ti napr. si reshil, che btc e Bulgarian
Telecommunication Company - te mi se obadiha, che sa poluchili pismo ot teb /s
pechat i podpis/, w koeto twyrdish, che nie iskame "tqhnoto" ime. Bi li obqsnil
na shirokata publika towa?
---forwarded message
Date : Thu Feb 01, 13:04 pvt rcv
From : BG-NIC Hostmaster 248:100/2
To : Veni Markovski 248:100/17
Subj : Conflicting domain registration
Gentlemen,
Our domain name registry received two registration requests for the
same domain name:
>from two different organizations at the same time. Since the BG-NIC
registry cannot act as arbiter in such cases, and the requests were
received in about the same time, this matter needs to be resolved
between both organizations. The organizations who requested this
domain name are:
INTERNET SOCIETY - BULGARIA
and
Association "Bulgarian Unix Group" BGUUG
For BG-NIC
Daniel Kalchev
* Origin: hostm...@digsys.bg (BG-NIC Hostmaster)
---end of forwarded message
Pishe li 'at the same time'?? Da ne goworim, che si go pratil na angliiski:-)
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
DK> : Ako obache e klient na acad.bg ili cit.bg - sorry! BAN (acad.bg)
DK> ne : sa poluchili domain ot nego w prodylzhenie na godina.
DK> syshtoto se otnasq za : Iris Systems (sega gi ima, no danbo im
DK> bawesehe registraciqta poweche ot dwa : meseca).
DK> Naistina li?
da, naistina.
DK> A dali tezi hora shte potwyrdqt towa, koeto ti
pitaj mi...@acad.bg.
DK> Shto se otnasq do t.n. zaqwki za registraciq, koito si dal ot imeto
DK> na CIT, razbira se, che na CIT Ltd. nqma da bydat registrirani
DK> neshta ot roda na president.bg, bnb.bg, bsp.bg, fooutball.bg i t.n.
DK> (35 imena).
a bap.bg, crea.bg i dr., za koito ne znaesh kakwo stoi zad imeto? Insufficient
information, nali?
DK> : Problemyt na daniel e, che nqma razdelenie na com.bg ili org.bg,
DK> gov.bg, mil.bg,
DK> : int.bg i t.n. Ako go imashe towa razdelenie (kakto e w drugite
DK> strani), mozhe : bi neshtata shtqha da sa po-lesni.
DK> Towa ne e moj problem. Nito e problem na BG-NIC.
Sigurno. Shtom go kazwash.
DK> : Internet Society beshe uchredeno prez
DK> : Decemwri 95 g. syshtiq den pratih na Daniel e-mail s informaciq
DK> za sybitieto.
DK> Towa ne e wqrno Veni, ti taka i ne prati (pylna informaciq) za tazi
DK> organizaciq, dori i prez February, kogato tq ochewidno (po twoi
DK> sobstweni dumi) ne beshe oshte registrirana w syda.
Tochno tuk popadash w sobstweniq si kapan. Nqma da ti obqsnqwam zashto -
pomisli malko i shte widish.
DK> : After founding the Ineternet Society, we requeseted domain name
DK> isoc.bg from : the TLDA - Daniel Kalchev, and he started saying
DK> that we need to send written : and stamped and signed request, all
DK> the usual blah-blah (usual for him, unusual
DK> : for the Internet), and suddenly, when he got the written request
DK> he said that : at the same time (day, hour, minutes) he has
DK> received another written, stamped : and signed request for the same
DK> domain name - isoc.bg by the BGUUG (?). It
DK> Nobody said both requests came at the same minute. It is not
DK> BG-NICs job to resolve disputes, so you had to settle this matter
DK> with BGUUG, which you have not done!
Well, well, well. Daniel denies his own words. You said back in January that
they CAME at the same time, didn't you?
DK> : turned out later on, that Daniel himself is a member of the
DK> BGUUG, and the : chairman of the group is Daniel's dealer in Sofia
DK> - Volin Karagiozov from the : MGU (an university which is
DK> connected to the Internet via Daniel and is
DK> By the same definition, most of the "other ISP" in Bulgaria are
DK> reselling EUnet services, including CIT at one point of time. Are
DK> these all "my" dealers? :-)
No, but MGU resells your leased line services, and you know that.
DK> : reselling his services). That's what I call unfair copmetition -
DK> Daniel knew : from my e-mail about the ISOC, and yet he was
DK> delaying our registration while : his friend and dealer made up
DK> his own request (may be, who knows if such a : document was ever
DK> received??). In the meantime, the BGUUG started a totally :
DK> outragious compaign against the Internet Society, writing letters
DK> to isoc.org, : stating weird things (I don't want to remember all
DK> the junk that was said about
DK> : it...)...
DK> Veni, if you had sent your domain name application back in
DK> December, as I told you to do when you wrote "oh, we are creating
DK> an non-profit organization now, you may be interested in it, when
DK> we say more", you would not have had this 'problem'.
So, here you say:
1. Your registration was sent in December by e-mail (you knew it)
2. Danbo was unhappy he was not invited as a founder of ISOC-Bulgaria
3. Therefore he denied us the registration.
DK> to be a difficult task. You had better work with BGUUG together on
DK> this.
The Internet Society Bulgaria is open towards cooperation with any organization,
but we have not received any hints from BGUUG that _they_ are as open as we
are.
DK> I have a collection of documented lies, written by you to myself,
DK> RIPE and IANA about the above mentioned subject. I hope they will
DK> remain for my private use...
:-) It's good to have _some_ sense of humour.
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: In article <1ba64d63.248.100/0...@cit.bg> ve...@cit.bg (Veni Markovski) writes:
: > nqkolko firmi, organizacii i sdruzheniq s idealna cel, koito chakat meseci
: > nared da poluchat domain ot daniel, no toj im bawi wsqcheski dokumentite
: > samo zashtoto te sa ne negowi klienti.
: Viarno li e tova be, Daniele?
Ne e. CIT podade zaqwka za registraciq na 35 imena na imeto na CIT
Ltd. Tazi zaqwka beshe otkazana ot registyra, po nqkolko prichini,
edna ot koito e che CIT weche imaha registrirani dwe (2) imena w BG.
Ako CIT ima problemi da iobqsni na nabedenite si "klienti" kak da
populnqt zaqwkite si za registraciq, ili da gi popylni ot tqhno ime
(ne ot imeto na CIT Ltd), towa ne e problem na BG TLD registyra.
Mezdhu drugoto, tolkowa dylgo sprqganiq ot Veni Markovski i Dimitar
Ganchev "Centyr za Izsledwane na Demokraciqta" naskoro si registrira
sobstweno ime csd.bg - ne mi se shte da spekuliram s otziwite im za
CIT i sie, no izglezhda nikak ne bqha polozhitelni.
: > bcs... crea.bg.. idea.bg.. bap.bg
: Daniele, kakvo imash da kazhesh po tova?
Tezi imena sa ot wyprosnat agrupa imena, koito CIT Ltd zhelaeshe da
registrira za sebe si. Tezi organizacii nikoga ne sa podawali zaqwka
za registraciq do BG-NIC.
: > he said that at the same time (day, hour, minutes) he has received another
: > written, stamped and signed request for the same domain name - isoc.bg by
: > the BGUUG (?)
: According to the rules he has posted, BGUUG can only claim bguug.bg. Daniel,
: isn't this so?
Razbira se. Po wremeto obache, kogato bguug poiska da registrira
isoc.bg, wyprosnata organizaciq ("Internet Obshtestwo Bylgaria") ne
beshe oshte registrirana.
Razbira se, sled nqkakwi diskusii mezhdu Veni Markovski i predsedatelq
na BGUUG Volin Karagiozov, BGUUG reshi da ottegli zaqwkata si za
isoc.bg.
: > outragious compaign against the Internet Society, writing letters to
: > isoc.org,
: Ah, wait a sec, so there is an international ISOC; and the struggle is who
: will found and control its Bulgarian chapter, is this right? Well, I think
: that in this particular case you two (and all other ISPs in Bulgaria) should
: make an effort and work together to merge the two competing societies you
: have.
Spored ISOC (istinskiq), w Bylgaria chapter na ISOC wse oshte ne
syshtestwuwa, i to imenno poradi lipsata na konsensus.
Tyj kato dosta se spekulira s moeto uchastie w tezi sybitiq, bih
zaqwil publichno, che ne izpitwam zhelanie da se prisyedinq kym
organizaciq, chijto prezident postoqnno bylwa nebiwalici po moj adres,
i koqto ima dosta stranni prawila (kato naprimer prakticheski
nesmenqem prezident :-).
Naistina zhalko, che zawista ponqkoga syzdawa tolkowa mnogo problemi.
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: Well, when I registered cit.net in the US, noone ever asked me if such a
: company existed. Anything wrong with that?
Nothing wrong. When you register subdomains under .COM, you follow the
rules which are set for that TLD. When you register subdomain under
most European TLD however, you will be requested such information (not
much diffrent from what BG-NIC requests), in some cases you will have
to pay a hefty registration fee. Have you tried to register a domain
name in say Germany or The Netherlands? Give it a try and then tell
the people here what your experience was... if you have the courage.
: DK> The registration of domain names is done to handle the addressing
: DK> in Internet. It has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights.
: DK> The rules to prevent an company to register another company's name
: DK> exist to protect the registry from abuse.
: then why wouldn't Daniel register a service for one company? He claims only
: companies can register domain names (which, of course, makes it impossible for
: let's say a company in registration period to register a name). Under the
: Bulgarian law, if one person decides to form a company and brings all the
: documents in court, he has the right to act on behalf of this, still not
: registered, company. According to our Bulgarian TLD administrator, such a
: comapny is not legitimate to get a domain name. Which brings me to the point
: where I can try to prove that with Mr. Kalchev - in the court.
Don't speculate with "Bulgarian Law". If you have submitted documents
in court, this does not mean that you have registered a company.
Nevertheless, in the case with isoc.bg, you were asked to give AT
LEAST the preliminary court decission - which you refused.
[off topic]
There are many things that an not-yet-registered company cannot do in
Bulgaria. For example, can you apply for a trademark registration from
a company that has not yet been registered? Will you succeed?
[end off topic]
: DK> Right. As long as you follow the published procedures, you are not
: DK> expected to have problems registering a domain name in Bulgaria.
: Sure, but the point is that we have had and are having problems all the time -
: and you stand against the development of the Internet outside of your customers.
Facts, please.
: DK> primarily intended to register companies operating in the US. Some
: DK> multinational companies, or companies operating in other countries
: DK> also register there - this is still not encouraged.
: It's encoured by CIT, because Mr. Kalchev's private procedure to register
: domain names is much more difficult than the one of INTERNIC.
It is different, not dofficult.
: DK> Correct. BG-NIC does not consider the 'legality' of the name, but
: DK> rather the legality of the applicant (we have had few provocations
: DK> in the past).
: That's not true. CIT applied for a domain name crea, which is a BBS in Sofia,
: that is created by a yound 16-years old SysOp, well known in Sofia. He can't
: register a company (it's too expensive), so he asked us to apply.
Private individuals cannot register a domain name under BG.
: The result
: was that Mr. Kalchev denied the right to have such a domain. So, imagine
: someone wants to stop the development of this young boy, and register a company
: with that name? Then Danbo would register the name under this company's name,
: and that's it.
This is speculation Veni. The domain name application was not denied
because of some 16 year boy (by the way, where did the application say
it was for that purpose?), but because it came together in a batch of
35 domain name applications to be registered on the name of CIT Ltd.
CIT Ltd already has registered domain name(s).
: DK> Do you really believe that BG-NIC makes it difficult for any
: DK> organization in Bulgaria to register a domain name? I would
: DK> be interested to hear of any such case!
: Danbo, come on! Stop kidding. Yes, there are plenty of such cases.
Some facts?
: DK> Similar or almost
: DK> identical procedures are published by most European TLD registries.
: As far as I know in Denmark there's a committee where one can apply for a wrong
: decision of the TLDA?
Have you ever read the procedure to apply for a domain name in DK? How
do you think it compares to the procedure to apply for a domain name
in BG?
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > basic requirement for the registry - to be able to identify the domain name
: > holder.
: OK then, ask for a copy of the applicant's passport. Or private citizens can't
: register a domain, only organisations?
Yes, private citizens cannot register a domain in BG. At least not
currently - we are considering a procedure which may change this.
: > An entity, using a certain domain name can be subject of a legal
: > investigation for various reasons, including, but not limited to criminal
: > activity in Internet.
: Which government agency has asked you explicitly to have that information on
: file? I think if the government cares at all about criminal activity on the
: internet, they would have the brains to get to the perpetrator even if they
: have provided a fake home address. The perpetrator can be using someone
: else's domain, for that matter.
Internet is not owned by any government, so that any government may
request such data, right?
If someone provides access to an criminal from their own system
(including domain), then that is their own problem. The reigtry is
just that - a place where one can obtain realistic information.
: I think the farther a domain autority stays from any legal issues, the better
: for everyone concerned. The domain authority has no legal authority
: whatsoever (correct me if I'm wrong), it only has technical authority.
Correct. BG-NIC does not decide what entity is a company and what is
not. Thus, we rely on the common practice in the country where we
operate (Bulgaria) and request a legal document - the company's court
registration. A company registration is also required, because
individuals cannot register domain names.
Do you think that a company would refuse to provide it's company cour
registration data for any valid reason? Why?
: > Microsoft and Micros0ft are different for the American lawyers.
: I doubt it very much. I suspect that if you register a software company by
: that name, MS's lawyers will be all over you in no time flat. In any case,
: it's not for the DNS authority to decide the legality of names. All
: responsibility for that rests with the name holder. You state the same
: explicitly in your rules, yet purport to be a legal authority in deciding
: who's got the right to have a name and who hasn't.
Again, please do not confuse the legality of names with the legal
status of the applicant.
: > The registration of domain names is done to handle the addressing in
: > Internet. It has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights.
: Exactly my point. Neither it is done in order to facilitate law enforcement
: with information about the name holder. So if there is no other reason, I
: don't see why you have to ask for any legal papers.
Many reasons. The primary is to prove that we are allocating the
domain name to the same entity as requested (to avoid the cases like
the Center for the Study of Democracy unknowingly hiding behind the
name cit.bg, which then turns out to be registered to CIT Ltd.)
Another reason is to be able to provide the neccesary autority satisfactory
documents (court for example) in case of disputes.
: > The rules to prevent an company to register another company's name exist to
: > protect the registry from abuse.
: Have you had any abuse yet? USA definitely had abuse (what else is
: MICROS0FT?), yet the only measure they took was to introduce a registration
: fee (which may have been introduced for financial and not political purposes
: anyway). And they only took this measure *after* they got abuse, and after so
: many people started registering domains that conflicts began to appear.
Of course. Several times in the past, including the person who started
this dicsussion.
: Your current status is that *you* are being accused of abuse: abuse of
: technical authority for political reasons. I think you have to loosen the
: rules if you want to clean up your name.
Have you seens a single proof yet?
In particular, I do not see any relationship between the current BG
TLD registration rules and the accusations of Veni Markovski.
As I said, the rules to register a domain name are in line with the
rules to register a domain name in most European countries. Like
BG-NIC, they publish their procedures - you may just go read them, and
hopefuly we can discuss the real issues.
: > As long as you follow the published procedures, you are not expected to have
: > problems registering a domain name in Bulgaria.
: The question is how long does it take, and how inconvenient the procedures are
: for the applicants. If your procedures include "do a triple sommersault with a
: double flip", people will find it hard to follow them.
It takes less than a week, sometimes much faster, from the date when
the domain name application has arrived at BG-NIC.
I think you have already read the procedure - do you find it
unreasonable?
: > : When Zhivko registered bulgaria.com, did anyone asked him to prove
: > we have been already contacted by some government agencies to ask what the
: > procedures were
: Whose procedures? I meant the registration of bulgaria.com in the USA.
They asked what the practices in Internet are in such cases. Nothing
special, just routine synchronisation of facts. At least good, that
these people try to be up to date with current developments.
This is however irrelevant in the current discussion.
: > and whether this wouldn't create any problems.
: Problems for who? If RB wants the name bulgaria.com very badly, they can pay
: Zhivko for it. I don't think he would refuse a reasonable offer :-)
You mean someone may make him a offer that he cannot refuse? :-)
I do not think anyone is interested in this, but some people (guess
who :) really think that they can sell domain names. Probably this is
why they are angry to be unable to register more of them.
: > In the case of bulgaria.com, what proof should have been requested from
: > Jivko? He has registered the name to his company.
: I got the impression that your rules state "you can only get a domain name
: that corresponds to the name of your company". Correct me if I'm wrong.
: Zhivko would have definitely had problems satisfying such a requirement :-)
Jivko has not applied for a domain name under BG, or under any of the
European TLDs.
: > BG-NIC does not consider the 'legality' of the name, but rather the legality
: > of the applicant
: Well it shouldn't. You have no legal authority whatsoever, and making such
: decisions is abuse of authority, IMHO.
BG-NIC has full authority over the BG top-level domain. In terms of
Internet, this is enough. This does not mean BG-NIC has any authority
outside of the domain name registration under BG. Period.
: > (we have had few provocations in the past).
: "Provocations"? What kind of fucking term is this? It surely doesn't sound
: very legal to me. Who decides what's a provocation and what isn't?
--- cut here ---
Webster Definition for "provocation"
prov.o.ca.tion \.pra:v-*-'ka--sh*n\ n [ME provocacioun, fr. MF provocation,
fr. L provocation-, ]provocatio, fr. provocatus, pp. of provocare :
of provoking : INCITEMENT; also : something that provokes,
stimulatesr
--- cut here ---
: > Do you really believe that BG-NIC makes it difficult for any organization in
: > Bulgaria to register a domain name?
: After the cases Veni cited, yes. I still have to read your replies to those
: accusations, which I assume you have made promptly.
Hopefuly, you have read these by now.
: > the procedures which are valid for domain name application in Bulgaria are
: > published for everyone to read
: Ok, let's go over them. Do you have any formal procedure for amendments to
: these rules? I assume a DNS should be governed to a large degree like a
: popular democracy.
Not yet (formal). But anyone is free to submit their ideas.
So far, we have received some positive feedback, and some stuff, like
"We want you to go away" - guess who wants this.
: > 2.3: The legal status (statutory body, semi-state,
: > type of corporate body: plc, ltd, ...) This should be proved with a
: > court decision or some other legal document.
: What for? Can non-legal entities (persons) register domains?
No.
: > 3.4: A domain name shall correspond with reasonable closeness
: > to the name of the applicant or to an abbreviation or trademark
: > by which the applicant is well known.
: Why? Have you had cases of abuse to justify this? Who decides what "well
: known" means? If it's a new company that isn't known at all yet, then what?
How known is a company is not related to whether it can receive a
domain name. For example, if a company named "Iskam Byrzo Makaroni"
iska da registrira IBM.BG they will certainly have to prove they have
some sort of trademark over the abbreviature IBM.
All decissions about domain name applicability are the responsibility
of the TLD administration. The rules are publised so that applicants
do not have false expectations (like to be able to register a domain
name for physical person etc.).
: Why is there to time period specified in which the DNS is obliged to complete
: the registration?
The registration itself takes just few minutes (and maybe a day or so
to propagate). The collection of the neccesary information however
sometimes takes longer, especially when the applicant is ignorant as
to what is (for example) a nameserver or if they outright do not want
to provide the BG-NIC with the requested information (like the case
with isoc.bg).
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: In article <1c427803.248.100/17...@cit.bg> ven...@cit.bg (Veni Markovski) writes:
: > CIT applied for a domain name crea, which is a BBS in Sofia, that is created
: > by a yound 16-years old SysOp, well known in Sofia. He can't register a
: > company (it's too expensive), so he asked us to apply.
: If there is no name CREA yet, I don't see why that boy shouldn't get the name.
: What's wrong with him getting that name?
1. He has never applied for it.
2. A private person cannot register a domain name under BG.
: I just got an idea: why doesn't DigSys "sublicense" CIT with DNS authority for
: clients who use CIT as their ISP? DigSys would make DNS entries for names
: supplied by CIT in "batch mode", and the responsibility for any legal problems
: with these names will rest with CIT, or with whoever they arrange it. CIT can
: institute whatever rules they see fit. And only in the case of a name conflict
: between two customers of DigSys and CIT would negotiations be necessary.
It is possible, that CIT Ltd assists these organizations to fill the
domain name request form and submits the documentation to BG-NIC.
BG-NIC cannot sublicense anyone to assign domain names under BG.
What CIT Ltd has done was to submit 35 domain name applications, to be
registered on the name of CIT Ltd, then claiming that these are their
customers.
There is no question of 'customers of CIT and customers of DigSys'.
The domain name registration is absolutely irrelevant of whose
customer the requesting company is. Period.
Since you seem to look at the Internet from a US point of view, here
is an example: Your company is "My Comp, Inc". Would you agree that if
your service provider is for example PSI, Inc, the domain name MYCOMP.COM
be registered to PSI, Inc, instead of to your company?
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: In article <4q1i8s$r...@dsvme.digsys.bg> dan...@dsvme.digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) writes:
: > It is not BG-NICs job to resolve disputes, so you had to settle this matter
: > with BGUUG, which you have not done!
: Did BGUUG get the name isoc.bg or not? If it did, then you *have* taken the
: job of resolving disputes, and in a rather unilateral way.
What do you think? (hint: you may wish to use nslookup to find out -
playing a little with this tool may provide you with more HARD facts
as to whose customers are getting domain names under BG).
: > ... after the 'conflict' that you discuss has been resolved.
: Who resolved this conflict? Since you say CIT didn't, was it BGUUG alone?
BGUUG of course. After all, a domain name is not worth so much noise.
: > About ISOC, I still do not think you have real intention to build an ISOC
: > chapter in Bulgaria, especially as it seems this is proving to be a
: > difficult task.
: You can only say this in an inofficial capacity, not as a TLD official.
Right. The existence of any ISOC chapter in Bulgaria is irrelevant to
the BG TLD registration procedures. Or do you think differently?
[off topic]
However, Veni has made enough effort to involve ISOC in the
registration of that domain name, because he needed it badly (for not
so non-commercial reasons). It was interesting to see the position of
ISOC on this case...
[end off topic]
: Daniel, since your position ivolves conflict of interest, you should be very
: careful about your actions and words if you care about your clean name. Kakto
: e kazal narodyt "Kogato si v chuzhd bostan, ne se navezhdaj dazhe za da si
: zavyrzhesh obuvkite".
Believe me, I have saved you enough other 'background facts', simply
because I do not believe they are relevant to this 'discussion'.
I am well avare of the perceived conflict of interests that surround
my person. However I had my real-world lesson some years ago. :-)
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> A dali tezi hora shte potwyrdqt towa, koeto ti
: pitaj mi...@acad.bg.
Interesno, zashto toj ne si kaza mnenieto pred RIPE, po wremeto kogato
ti nastoqwashe pred tqh da smenqt BG TLD registrya? Mozhe bi zashtoto
RIPE dostatychno dobre poznawat sluchaq s acad.bg?
: DK> Shto se otnasq do t.n. zaqwki za registraciq, koito si dal ot imeto
: DK> na CIT, razbira se, che na CIT Ltd. nqma da bydat registrirani
: DK> neshta ot roda na president.bg, bnb.bg, bsp.bg, fooutball.bg i t.n.
: DK> (35 imena).
: a bap.bg, crea.bg i dr., za koito ne znaesh kakwo stoi zad imeto? Insufficient
: information, nali?
W zaqwkata za registraciq na tezi imena zad tqh stoeshe: CIT Ltd.
Naistina li CIT Ltd stoi zad tezi imena?
: DK> : Internet Society beshe uchredeno prez
: DK> : Decemwri 95 g. syshtiq den pratih na Daniel e-mail s informaciq
: DK> za sybitieto.
: DK> Towa ne e wqrno Veni, ti taka i ne prati (pylna informaciq) za tazi
: DK> organizaciq, dori i prez February, kogato tq ochewidno (po twoi
: DK> sobstweni dumi) ne beshe oshte registrirana w syda.
: Tochno tuk popadash w sobstweniq si kapan. Nqma da ti obqsnqwam zashto -
: pomisli malko i shte widish.
Mozhe li mako fakti, wse pak?
[isoc.bg]
: DK> Nobody said both requests came at the same minute. It is not
: DK> BG-NICs job to resolve disputes, so you had to settle this matter
: DK> with BGUUG, which you have not done!
: Well, well, well. Daniel denies his own words. You said back in January that
: they CAME at the same time, didn't you?
Sorry Veni, here is an except from the notification you received:
--- cut here ---
Our domain name registry received two registration requests for the
same domain name:
from two different organizations at the same time. Since the BG-NIC
registry cannot act as arbiter in such cases, and the requests were
received in about the same time, this matter needs to be resolved
between both organizations. The organizations who requested this
domain name are:
INTERNET SOCIETY - BULGARIA
and
Association "Bulgarian Unix Group" BGUUG
--- cut here ---
Where does it say that they came at the SAME time? Also, to refresh
your memory, this was written on 1st of February.
: DK> By the same definition, most of the "other ISP" in Bulgaria are
: DK> reselling EUnet services, including CIT at one point of time. Are
: DK> these all "my" dealers? :-)
: No, but MGU resells your leased line services, and you know that.
Do you believe yourself? Who else but EUnet would know better who are
our 'resellers'?
: DK> Veni, if you had sent your domain name application back in
: DK> December, as I told you to do when you wrote "oh, we are creating
: DK> an non-profit organization now, you may be interested in it, when
: DK> we say more", you would not have had this 'problem'.
: So, here you say:
: 1. Your registration was sent in December by e-mail (you knew it)
: 2. Danbo was unhappy he was not invited as a founder of ISOC-Bulgaria
: 3. Therefore he denied us the registration.
What is says Veni, is that you have NOT sent your domain name
registration in December. It also says that you have not indicated
which organization you are talking about.
Until the registry received the domain name application, you have not
applied for that name. Period.
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
: DK> I koi sa tezi 4-5 ISP w Bylgaria, koito ne sa syglasni? I s kakwo
: DK> ne sa syglasni, wse pak? Dali pone edin ot tqh ima realna predstawa
: DK> kakwi sa funkciite na TLD registyra?
: DK> Ili na nqkoi ot tqh prosto im se iska poweche 'wlast' i 'kontrol' w
: DK> Internet?
: che kakwa poweche wlast i kontorl, otkolkoto imash ti? shto si prawish majtap s
: horata po sweta i u nas?
Blagodarq Veni, za towa che otgowori na osnowniq wypros, otnosno
'problema' s BG-NIC.
: DK> : Kogato nawremeto nie iskahme da registrirame CIT.BG, Daniel kaza,
: DK> che niama da : stane, ako ne sme negowi abonati.
: DK> Towa ne e wqrno. Kazano wei beshe, che ne mozhe da se registrira
: DK> ime w Internet, ako organizaciqta ne se swyrzwa s mrezhata, dori i
: DK> samo za e-mail.
: aha, znachi swyrzana s mrezhata? s EuNet, che ti e po-lesno.
S Internet. Nqma znachenie kyde.
: DK> : Smianata na mail exchangera be syprowodeno s pisma ot Daniel do
: DK> nashi abonati : (te ni gi prepratiha i nie mozhem da gi pokazhem
: DK> na wseki, kojto pozhelae), w : koito toj im obiasniawa, che shte
: DK> si imat seriozni problemi, dori i : politicheski, zashtoto
: DK> izpolzwame uslugite na moskowskata mrezha GlasNet. Neise,
: DK> Shto ne wzemsh da go publikuwash? Shte byde mnogo interesen 'fakt'
: DK> w podkrepa na pisaniqta wi.
: Zashtoto e faks, nqma kak da go publikuwam, oswen ako ne go napisha na ryka -
: wprochem towa e dobra ideq, no ti mozhe da pitash Volin - toj go e wizhdal.
Mnogo shte se radwam da go publikuwash, osobenno ako pyk i opitash da
izfabrikuwash faks s sydyrzhanieto, koeto ti se iska...
: DK> : s tazi gimnastika CIT.BG beshe dylgo wreme edinstwenia domain,
: DK> registriran w : Bylgaria, kojto ne izpolzwashe uslugite na Cifrowi
: DK> sistemi. Problemi ot podobno
: DK> Towa syshto ne e wqrno. Mnogo predi CIT izobshto da se swyrzhe kym
: DK> mrezhata, w BG imashe domain imena, koito ne se obsluzhwat ot
: DK> EUnet. Dali edna organizaciq se obsluzhwa ot edin ili drug ISP
: DK> nqmam nikakwo znachenie za registraciqta, dokolkoto towa
: DK> obsluzhwane dejsteitelno syshtestwuwa.
: Prazni prikazki - ne moga da razbera sled kato znaesh, che ne e taka, zashto
: pishesh podobni gluposti?
Veni, koj po-dobre ot registyra znae kakwi imena sa registrirani w BG,
i pri kakwi usloviq?
Ti may wze da se zabrawqsh.
: DK> : registracii, popylneni ot-do i wsichki biaha wyrbnati w paket s
: DK> obiasnenieto : "Nedostatychna informacia". Powtariam, w
: DK> appclication forms, koito Cifrowi : sistemi biaha izpratili ne
: DK> beshe ostanalo swobodno nito edno pole, wsichko : beshe popylneno,
: DK> wsichki name servers i mail exchangers rabotiha, taka che nie : i
: DK> do sega ne mozhem da razberem kyde e triabwalo da byde napisana
: DK> tazi : dopylnitelna informacia i kakwa triabwa da byde tia.
: DK> Ne sywsem. Posocheni bqha pone tri prichini za ne-registriraneto na
: posochena be 1 prichina - insufficient information. Sorry, no da si izmislil
: drugite dwe nawremeto, a ne sega. Shte se porowq po arhiwite, ako imam wreme, i
: shte ti pratq kopiq ot twoite pisma.
I kakwo se okaza, che prichinite bili tri? Ti Veni, naistina li pyrwo
pishesh, a posle chetesh?
: Sega da razgledame imenata: bnb, exco, prosoft, sheraton, zagorka
: za ochewidno imena na izwestni na teb organizacii. Az obache ne sym dlyzhen da
: znam, che syshtestwuwat takiwa organizacii wyobshte (nqkyde si), shtom gi nqma
: w nslookup. Ne znam zashto, obache ti napr. si reshil, che btc e Bulgarian
: Telecommunication Company - te mi se obadiha, che sa poluchili pismo ot teb /s
: pechat i podpis/, w koeto twyrdish, che nie iskame "tqhnoto" ime. Bi li obqsnil
: na shirokata publika towa?
Sled zaqwleniqta ti pred RIPE i IANA che si upylnomoshten da
predstawlqwash syotwetnite organizacii otnosno registraciqta na tezi
imena, BG-NIC otprawi zapitwane kym weroqtnite organizacii, za da
poluchi tqhnoto mnenie.
Tuk ne e mqstoto za otcheti na BG-NIC, no pone edin fakt mozhe da byde
otbelqzan: nito edna ot tezi organizacii ne potwyrdi dumite na Veni
Markovski, wkluchitelno i BTC, za koqto stawa wypros po-gore.
: >from two different organizations at the same time. Since the BG-NIC
: registry cannot act as arbiter in such cases, and the requests were
: received in about the same time, this matter needs to be resolved
: between both organizations. The organizations who requested this
: domain name are:
: Pishe li 'at the same time'?? Da ne goworim, che si go pratil na angliiski:-)
Ne Veni, ne pishe towa. Procheti otnowo.
Prawopisnite greshki sa si moi, razbira se. A pishe na Anglijski,
zashtoto beshe ochewidno che tozi dokument shte potrqbwa po-kysno kato
dokazatelstwo. Koeto se potwyrdi ot reakciqta ti, razbira se.
Veni Markovski
Vladimir Alexiev said the following to All:
VA> In article <4pui58$i...@dsvme.digsys.bg> dan...@dcave.digsys.bg
VA> (Daniel Kalchev) writes:
> basic requirement for the registry - to be able to identify the domain name
> holder.
VA> OK then, ask for a copy of the applicant's passport. Or private
VA> citizens can't register a domain, only organisations?
according to Daniel not only a citizen can not register a DN, but a company can
not register more than one name. Would have been funny, if not sad.
> An entity, using a certain domain name can be subject of a legal
> investigation for various reasons, including, but not limited to criminal
> activity in Internet.
VA> Which government agency has asked you explicitly to have that
VA> information on file? I think if the government cares at all about
VA> criminal activity on the internet, they would have the brains to
VA> get to the perpetrator even if they have provided a fake home
VA> address. The perpetrator can be using someone else's domain, for
VA> that matter.
Of course. Daniel would write anything which helps him 'keep up'.
VA> I think the farther a domain autority stays from any legal issues,
VA> the better for everyone concerned. The domain authority has no
VA> legal authority whatsoever (correct me if I'm wrong), it only has
VA> technical authority.
I guess he'll correct you:-)
> The registration of domain names is done to handle the addressing in
> Internet. It has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights.
VA> Exactly my point. Neither it is done in order to facilitate law
VA> enforcement with information about the name holder. So if there is
VA> no other reason, I don't see why you have to ask for any legal
VA> papers.
The legal papers are just one more 'nail' for the competitors.
VA> Your current status is that *you* are being accused of abuse: abuse
VA> of technical authority for political reasons. I think you have to
VA> loosen the rules if you want to clean up your name.
Wrong idea - now he'll never do that; trust me, I know him for years...
> As long as you follow the published procedures, you are not expected
> to have problems registering a domain name in Bulgaria.
VA> The question is how long does it take, and how inconvenient the
VA> procedures are for the applicants. If your procedures include "do a
VA> triple sommersault with a double flip", people will find it hard to
VA> follow them.
and that's why the find it so difficult...
VA> I got the impression that your rules state "you can only get a
VA> domain name that corresponds to the name of your company". Correct
VA> me if I'm wrong. Zhivko would have definitely had problems
VA> satisfying such a requirement :-)
:-)))
> BG-NIC does not consider the 'legality' of the name, but rather the
> legality of the applicant
VA> Well it shouldn't. You have no legal authority whatsoever, and
VA> making such decisions is abuse of authority, IMHO.
Right!
> (we have had few provocations in the past).
VA> "Provocations"? What kind of fucking term is this? It surely
VA> doesn't sound very legal to me. Who decides what's a provocation
VA> and what isn't?
Obviously the TLD - i.e. Danbo himself.
> Do you really believe that BG-NIC makes it difficult for any
> organization in Bulgaria to register a domain name?
VA> After the cases Veni cited, yes.
I'll find the one from Krassimir Simonsky (kr...@aubg.bg) and will post them,
too.
> to the name of the applicant or to an abbreviation or trademark
> by which the applicant is well known.
VA> Why? Have you had cases of abuse to justify this? Who decides what
VA> "well known" means? If it's a new company that isn't known at all
VA> yet, then what?
Then let Danbo decide.
VA> Why is there to time period specified in which the DNS is obliged
VA> to complete the registration?
I guess it should be 'no time'. There's no time period, as this is the only way
to make it impossible for us to register any domain name.
Veni Markovski
Vladimir Alexiev said the following to All:
> CIT applied for a domain name crea, which is a BBS in Sofia, that is
> created by a yound 16-years old SysOp, well known in Sofia. He can't
> register a company (it's too expensive), so he asked us to apply.
VA> If there is no name CREA yet, I don't see why that boy shouldn't
VA> get the name. What's wrong with him getting that name?
Nothing - Daniel denied it.
VA> I just got an idea: why doesn't DigSys "sublicense" CIT with DNS
VA> authority for clients who use CIT as their ISP? DigSys would make
VA> DNS entries for names supplied by CIT in "batch mode", and the
VA> responsibility for any legal problems with these names will rest
VA> with CIT, or with whoever they arrange it. CIT can institute
VA> whatever rules they see fit. And only in the case of a name
VA> conflict between two customers of DigSys and CIT would negotiations
VA> be necessary.
Hehe:-) U must be kidding. Danbo is not that tolerant, not at all. He wants ALL
the users of Internet with him.
Vladimir Alexiev
> After reviewing your domain name application, made on behalf of CIT Ltd. for
> the following domain names:
>
> arc bap bgisoc bguug bnb bsp btc bulgaria-isoc ce citcom citnet cpd csd exco
> football idea infoserve intercontinental internet isoc isoc-b isoc-bg
> isoc-bulgaria mitko president prosoft sheraton sys systems tron veni xax
> zagorka crea
Ami Veni, men ako pitash, tova po-gore dejstvitelno mozhe da se nareche
"provokacia" i "abuse". Bi li otgovoril dali CIT e iskala da registrira tezi
imena ot imeto na syotvetnite organizacii (naprimer BNB, Tron, Bulg Assoc po
Futbol, ProSoft) i ako ne, zashto sa j na CIT tezi imena. Az pitah Danbo dali
e imal sluchai na abuse, koito da opravdaiat tezhkite pravila, nalozheni ot
nego. Ti mi otgovori vmesto nego, i otgovoryt opredeleno e "da".
Vladimir Alexiev
In article <4q30ro$j...@dsvme.digsys.bg> dan...@dcave.digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) writes:
> : > bcs... crea.bg.. idea.bg.. bap.bg
> Tezi imena sa ot wyprosnat agrupa imena, koito CIT Ltd zhelaeshe da
> registrira za sebe si. Tezi organizacii nikoga ne sa podawali zaqwka
> za registraciq do BG-NIC.
Az prochetoh grupata imena i sym syglasen, che niakoi ot tiah sa abuse: bnb,
prosoft, tron, etc. Veni, domain names ne sa uzhastyci zemia po vreme na
zlatnata treska, ta da se opitvash da registrirash kolkoto se mozhe poveche ot
tiah, belkim posle se okazhe, che mozhe da imash niakakva fajda ot tova.
Obache Daniele, chetirite imena citirani po-gore *ne sa* abuse. I ako Veni
naistina e iskal da gi registrira ot imeto na syotvetnite organizacii,
triabvalo e priemesh registraciata.
> : According to the rules he has posted, BGUUG can only claim bguug.bg.
> Razbira se. Po wremeto obache, kogato bguug poiska da registrira
> isoc.bg, wyprosnata organizaciq ("Internet Obshtestwo Bylgaria") ne
> beshe oshte registrirana.
Tova niama znachenie. Spored tvoite pravila isoc.bg e triabvalo da byde
otkazano na BGUUG nezavisimo dali e bilo svobodno ili ne.
> Naistina zhalko, che zawista ponqkoga syzdawa tolkowa mnogo problemi.
Gospoda, otnovo vi prizovavam da se pridyrzhate kym faktite i da izbiagvate
obidite. Da citirash 200-redovo pismo i da vmyknesh po edno "ha, naistina li?"
prez 10 reda ne sposobstva za konstruktivna diskusia. (Tova ne go pisha v
otgovor specialno na *tozi* posting; i Veni chesto pravi taka.)
Pozdravi, Vlado
Vladimir Alexiev
> private citizens cannot register a domain in BG. At least not currently - we
> are considering a procedure which may change this.
Let's hope this won't remain simply words. I'm considering a domain as a gift
to my wife for the anniversary of our wedding :-)
> : > An entity, using a certain domain name can be subject of a legal
> : > investigation for various reasons, including, but not limited to criminal
> : > activity in Internet.
>
> : Which government agency has asked you explicitly to have that information
> : on file?
> Internet is not owned by any government, so that any government may
> request such data, right?
Exactly my point. You said "TLD have to collect legal data in order to be able
to identify the owner for the purposes of an investigation". I said no, you
don't. Now you seem to admit that.
> The reigtry is just that - a place where one can obtain realistic
> information.
What for? If someone elects to supply false information about their
whereabouts, why should it be TLD's job to deny him this, or to verify the
information? The TLD neither has the authority, nor can be effective for this.
> Correct. BG-NIC does not decide what entity is a company and what is
> not. Thus, we rely on the common practice in the country where we
> operate (Bulgaria) and request a legal document
BG-NIC does not *have* to have this decision. Let me restate my statement this
way: the farther you keep legal issues from the internet (before I said
"TLD"), the better. The internet should be kept as open as possible, and
restrictions should be introduced only in response to problems, not as apriori
proscriptions. If someone wants to appropriate the name BNB, deny him, because
this is abuse. If they want to get CREA, give them the name even without a
company behind it.
> Do you think that a company would refuse to provide it's company cour
> registration data for any valid reason? Why?
It just makes it harder for people. What if a school wants to get a domain?
Would you ask them for a court decision? An informal association? A community
setting up a BBS?
> Many reasons. The primary is to prove that we are allocating the
> domain name to the same entity as requested
Prove to who? To the ranters in s.c.b.? ;-)
> (to avoid the cases like the Center for the Study of Democracy unknowingly
> hiding behind the name cit.bg, which then turns out to be registered to CIT
> Ltd.)
Could you pelase elaborate on this, I don't understand. Do you mean that CSD
was using CIT.BG and they didn't know it was in any way related to CIT?
> Another reason is to be able to provide the neccesary autority satisfactory
> documents (court for example) in case of disputes.
Ok, let's see. A asks the TLD for a domain name. Then B disputes this name
("it rightfully belongs to me"), and gets A to court over it. The court asks
TLD to provide the correspondence it had with A and B. Are you saying that TLD
will have to prove to the court that the letter from A was in fact sent by A?
Give me a break! Who would do this action, which is supposedly beneficial for
A, except for A himself? Furthermore, where is it written that TLD has to
provide such information? I think this is a "responsibility" that TLD has
chosen to burden itself with, for reasons that are suspicious to me.
> : Have you had any abuse yet?
> Of course. Several times in the past
Having read the latest in this thread, I agree with you. However, you didn't
need court registrations to figure this out and decide to deny the names. And
I still think you don't need court papers to register CREA.
> : I think you have to loosen the rules if you want to clean up your name.
> Have you seens a single proof yet?
Nope. But in your vulnerable position of conflict of interest mere allegations
are bad enough.
> In particular, I do not see any relationship between the current BG
> TLD registration rules and the accusations of Veni Markovski.
You misunderstood me if you think I am taking his side. I am critiquing the
rules on their own merits. I am also asking you to disprove his allegations,
the same as I'm asking him to prove them.
> As I said, the rules to register a domain name are in line with the
> rules to register a domain name in most European countries.
I don't think you have to necessarily follow anybody's lead in this matter. It
appears USA's and Europe's rules are quite different. Bulgaria's rules have to
be appropriate for the situation in Bulgaria.
> hopefuly we can discuss the real issues.
> I think you have already read the procedure - do you find it
> unreasonable?
Let's discuss the requirement for court registration further.
> : > : When Zhivko registered bulgaria.com
> : > we have been already contacted by some government agencies
> Nothing special, just routine synchronisation of facts. At least good, that
> these people try to be up to date with current developments.
I'm sure that to the readership of s.c.b., reared in a communist dictatorship,
this sounds suspiciously like "elate s nas, malka spravka". I hope "these
people" were from, say, the Cultural Ministry, and weren't connected in any
way to national security. ;-)
> some people really think that they can sell domain names.
Some people in the USA have really done it. I have somewhat ambivalent
feelings about this. One one hand I think a "grab a name" race should not be
allowed to happen in Bulgaria. On the other hand, if someone thinks they can
develop this "market", why not? It's somewhat similar to the stocks market
(people who trade in it have a very abstract idea about the things they trade
with), and the stock market has it usefulness. I guess.
I tend towards a technical resolution, eg state that every name should be
associated with a networked machine, and no more than two names per machine.
The intent being to force the existence of real computers and nets behind the
names. There is something similar in the current rules. On second thought, I'm
not sure how wise this is either.
> BG-NIC has full authority over the BG top-level domain. This does not mean
> BG-NIC has any authority outside of the domain name registration under BG.
> Period.
Deciding the legality of an applicant is outside of that domain. Fullstop.
> : "Provocations"? What kind of fucking term is this?
I know we'd resort to four-letter words in the end. Wait, that's me! Well, I
guess I've been a bit hot at the moment I wrote this.
> --- cut here ---
> Webster Definition for "provocation"
Oh dear. Dictionary definitions. The flaming end of every discussion.
> : > 3.4: A domain name shall correspond with reasonable closeness
> : > to the name of the applicant or to an abbreviation or trademark
> : > by which the applicant is well known.
> How known is a company is not related to whether it can receive a
> domain name.
That's not what the rule above says.
> For example, if a company named "Iskam Byrzo Makaroni" iska da registrira
> IBM.BG they will certainly have to prove they have some sort of trademark
> over the abbreviature IBM.
That's reasonable, because it's reasonable to assume malicious intent in that
case. But that's already covered by the rule about availability. I think that
if the proposed name is not a well-known trademark name or acronym, you don't
have to ask for proof of trademark by the applicant.
> : Why is there to time period specified in which the DNS is obliged to
> complete the registration?
>
> The registration itself takes just few minutes (and maybe a day or so
> to propagate).
Good. Then add a clause "BG-NIC is obliged to complete a valid registration in
one week after receiving a complete application."
Vladimir Alexiev
> BG-NIC cannot sublicense anyone to assign domain names under BG.
If there was a mode of technical cooperation between two major ISPs
established, this would be feasible. But maybe it's silly of me to presume
that such a mode is possible in Bulgaria. ;-)
> What CIT Ltd has done was to submit 35 domain name applications, to be
> registered on the name of CIT Ltd
Right now I believe this is so, and I'm taking your side. Let's see what Veni
writes.
> The domain name registration is absolutely irrelevant of whose
> customer the requesting company is. Period.
That's how you should be trying to act, yes. But the statement above is
factually false, because clearly you have a conflict of interest. It's up to
you to act in a manner that won't leave much room for substantiated
accusations. I'm not saying you haven't, I'm saying you should be extra
careful in what you do.
> domain name MYCOMP.COM be registered to PSI, Inc...
To my company, of course. ISPs come and go, my company stays :-) (not that I
have any yet).
Vladimir Alexiev
>> you may wish to use nslookup to find out
Well, I'm stuck here:
> ls cit.bg
[nic.digsys.bg]
*** Can't list domain cit.bg: Query refused
> cit.bg
Server: nic.digsys.bg
Address: 192.92.129.1
Name: cit.bg
> : Who resolved this conflict? Since you say CIT didn't, was it BGUUG alone?
> BGUUG of course. After all, a domain name is not worth so much noise.
You mean, they gave up? They acted wisely, I guess.
> Believe me, I have saved you enough other 'background facts'
Please don't. Anything related to internet in Bulgaria is interesting for me
(and I hope, for some other readers). But only the facts, please.
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > : > bcs... crea.bg.. idea.bg.. bap.bg
: > Tezi imena sa ot wyprosnat agrupa imena, koito CIT Ltd zhelaeshe da
: > registrira za sebe si. Tezi organizacii nikoga ne sa podawali zaqwka
: > za registraciq do BG-NIC.
: Obache Daniele, chetirite imena citirani po-gore *ne sa* abuse. I ako Veni
: naistina e iskal da gi registrira ot imeto na syotvetnite organizacii,
: triabvalo e priemesh registraciata.
Za syzhalenie obache, te bqha poiskani za bydat registrirani na imeto
na CIT Ltd., bez dori da se upomenawa, che stawa wypros za druga
organizaciq.
: > : According to the rules he has posted, BGUUG can only claim bguug.bg.
: > Razbira se. Po wremeto obache, kogato bguug poiska da registrira
: > isoc.bg, wyprosnata organizaciq ("Internet Obshtestwo Bylgaria") ne
: > beshe oshte registrirana.
: Tova niama znachenie. Spored tvoite pravila isoc.bg e triabvalo da byde
: otkazano na BGUUG nezavisimo dali e bilo svobodno ili ne.
Ne beshe li ideqta koqto se diskutirashe tuk, wsqka organizaciq da
registrira pyrwa imeto, koeto zaqwi... ? :-) Oswen towa, po wreme na
podawane na zaqwkite i dwete organzacii twyrdqha che sa ISOC chapter
za Bylgaria.
Mozhe bi si praw. Trqbwashe da byde otkazano i na dwete. :-)
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > private citizens cannot register a domain in BG. At least not currently - we
: > are considering a procedure which may change this.
: Let's hope this won't remain simply words. I'm considering a domain as a gift
: to my wife for the anniversary of our wedding :-)
This has only been implemented in few European countris, with varying
sucess. It is very difficult to account private persons, because the
trust mode for them is such that they are not at advantage to prove
who they are. You say to ask passport data - then BG-NIC will have to
enter into the appropriate agreements with government agencies that
regulate (or will, when they wish :) privacy etc. Then how about
foreign citizens residing in Bulgaria? Only Bulgarians to be alowed to
register a personal domain under BG?
: > : Which government agency has asked you explicitly to have that information
: > : on file?
: > Internet is not owned by any government, so that any government may
: > request such data, right?
: Exactly my point. You said "TLD have to collect legal data in order to be able
: to identify the owner for the purposes of an investigation". I said no, you
: don't. Now you seem to admit that.
No, I don't. We seem to differ in what is considered 'legal data'. ALl
the TLD registry is interested is a proof of identity and existence of
the subject, applying for domain name. If you know of a better
document than the court registration, I will be happy to hear it!
: > The reigtry is just that - a place where one can obtain realistic
: > information.
: What for? If someone elects to supply false information about their
: whereabouts, why should it be TLD's job to deny him this, or to verify the
: information? The TLD neither has the authority, nor can be effective for this.
Because, let's suppose a company wants to prevent their competitor to
register their 'bigco.bg' domain name, which the victum company intends to
use for certan business. Then the first company just sends an e-mail
to BG-NIC, saying "Hey, I am the BigCo system administrator, please
register us the bigco.bg domain name, my details are ... XyzCo..." -
then comes BigCo together with their lawyers and waste our time.
What should BG-NIC do in this case?
If you think this is unlikely, such things (even before Veni Markovski
decided to request some domain names 'just in case') have happened in
Bulgaria.
: > Correct. BG-NIC does not decide what entity is a company and what is
: > not. Thus, we rely on the common practice in the country where we
: > operate (Bulgaria) and request a legal document
: BG-NIC does not *have* to have this decision.
This is why BG-NIC requests a legaly sufficient document (a court
registration), whose validity is the responsibility of the respective
court, not BG-NIC. We just record the fact.
: Let me restate my statement this
: way: the farther you keep legal issues from the internet (before I said
: "TLD"), the better. The internet should be kept as open as possible, and
: restrictions should be introduced only in response to problems, not as apriori
: proscriptions. If someone wants to appropriate the name BNB, deny him, because
: this is abuse. If they want to get CREA, give them the name even without a
: company behind it.
They cannot get crea.bg without a company behind, at least not yet.
Let me put it in another way: If you have a hobbysts community, who
run BBSes, they can do exactly what people have done in other
countries many years ago - form an hobby club. Then that hobby club,
being a registered organization can request a domain name, for example
club.bg and can give it's members subdomains under that, such as
crea.club.bg. Any problems with this?
About Internet and legal issues. As much as I would agree with you
that this is desirable, this is not going to continue for much longer.
Internet is invaded by all kinds of people (guess what I mean :), is
no longer a club and if it wants to survive, it needs to consider the
real-world issues.
In any case, the current 'restrictions' are incroduced exactly as an
response to the incresing number of abuses.
: > Do you think that a company would refuse to provide it's company cour
: > registration data for any valid reason? Why?
: It just makes it harder for people. What if a school wants to get a domain?
: Would you ask them for a court decision? An informal association? A community
: setting up a BBS?
All schools and universities have legaly standing documents that
define their creation. What is an informal association?
: > (to avoid the cases like the Center for the Study of Democracy unknowingly
: > hiding behind the name cit.bg, which then turns out to be registered to CIT
: > Ltd.)
: Could you pelase elaborate on this, I don't understand. Do you mean that CSD
: was using CIT.BG and they didn't know it was in any way related to CIT?
I think that Veni explained, that some years ago he tricked BG-NIC to
register a domain name (cit.bg), claiming that the name will be used
by CSD. Or that the name will be used by CIT Ltd to service CSD, but
CSD will pay the bills (he will not remember this of course).
: > Another reason is to be able to provide the neccesary autority satisfactory
: > documents (court for example) in case of disputes.
: Ok, let's see. A asks the TLD for a domain name. Then B disputes this name
: ("it rightfully belongs to me"), and gets A to court over it. The court asks
: TLD to provide the correspondence it had with A and B. Are you saying that TLD
: will have to prove to the court that the letter from A was in fact sent by A?
: Give me a break! Who would do this action, which is supposedly beneficial for
: A, except for A himself? Furthermore, where is it written that TLD has to
: provide such information? I think this is a "responsibility" that TLD has
: chosen to burden itself with, for reasons that are suspicious to me.
In any activity you may be liable, unless you prove the situation is
not a result of your fault. In this case the BG-NIC procedures are
published and documentation is available to prove the transactions.
This is simple. I do not understand why you need to complicate it with
'suspicious authorities'.
: > As I said, the rules to register a domain name are in line with the
: > rules to register a domain name in most European countries.
: I don't think you have to necessarily follow anybody's lead in this matter. It
: appears USA's and Europe's rules are quite different. Bulgaria's rules have to
: be appropriate for the situation in Bulgaria.
Not so. BG-NIC, although independent is working together with the
other European registries to define reasonable allocation policies.
: > : > : When Zhivko registered bulgaria.com
: > : > we have been already contacted by some government agencies
: > Nothing special, just routine synchronisation of facts. At least good, that
: > these people try to be up to date with current developments.
: I'm sure that to the readership of s.c.b., reared in a communist dictatorship,
: this sounds suspiciously like "elate s nas, malka spravka". I hope "these
: people" were from, say, the Cultural Ministry, and weren't connected in any
: way to national security. ;-)
The cultular ministry does not have real idea of what Internet is, but
this is quite out of topic (and long) discussion.
Unfortunately, I cannot give you more details on this. :-)
: > BG-NIC has full authority over the BG top-level domain. This does not mean
: > BG-NIC has any authority outside of the domain name registration under BG.
: > Period.
: Deciding the legality of an applicant is outside of that domain. Fullstop.
With the risk to repeat myself - this is exactly the reason why we ask
for a court registration. It is the court who decides the legality of
an applicant - BG-NIC just needs to know the fact.
: > : > 3.4: A domain name shall correspond with reasonable closeness
: > : > to the name of the applicant or to an abbreviation or trademark
: > : > by which the applicant is well known.
: > How known is a company is not related to whether it can receive a
: > domain name.
: That's not what the rule above says.
Why? What the rule above says is that the applicant is advised to
apply for a domain name that either is close to their company name or
to a trademark that is publicly known to belong to them. Actually, I
find an terminology error in the above text, which will be corrected.
:)
What my comment said was that whether a company is well known is
irrelevant, in that it can still register a domain name. Any company,
new or old can register a domain name.
: > For example, if a company named "Iskam Byrzo Makaroni" iska da registrira
: > IBM.BG they will certainly have to prove they have some sort of trademark
: > over the abbreviature IBM.
: That's reasonable, because it's reasonable to assume malicious intent in that
: case. But that's already covered by the rule about availability. I think that
: if the proposed name is not a well-known trademark name or acronym, you don't
: have to ask for proof of trademark by the applicant.
As Veni said, BG-NIC is not supposed to know every company name or
every trademark. This is why we ask for a formal document.
: > : Why is there to time period specified in which the DNS is obliged to
: > complete the registration?
: >
: > The registration itself takes just few minutes (and maybe a day or so
: > to propagate).
: Good. Then add a clause "BG-NIC is obliged to complete a valid registration in
: one week after receiving a complete application."
This is in our list of improvements. Then we may need to sign a
contract with the applicant that we indeed gave them a domain name at
that time. :-)
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: > BG-NIC cannot sublicense anyone to assign domain names under BG.
: If there was a mode of technical cooperation between two major ISPs
: established, this would be feasible. But maybe it's silly of me to presume
: that such a mode is possible in Bulgaria. ;-)
The problem with this is that there is no definition of "major ISP".
By the words of Veni Markovski, in Bulgaria are 4-5 (presumably major)
ISP, excluding EUnet.
All attempts to operate a NIC by a consortium of ISPs have (sometimes
miserably) failed in other European countries.
: > The domain name registration is absolutely irrelevant of whose
: > customer the requesting company is. Period.
: That's how you should be trying to act, yes. But the statement above is
: factually false, because clearly you have a conflict of interest. It's up to
: you to act in a manner that won't leave much room for substantiated
: accusations. I'm not saying you haven't, I'm saying you should be extra
: careful in what you do.
If you say the above statement is factualy false, you are then denying
your other statements. Which is it?
: > domain name MYCOMP.COM be registered to PSI, Inc...
: To my company, of course. ISPs come and go, my company stays :-) (not that I
: have any yet).
Then you now know one of the reasons why the 35 domain name applications,
including CREA were denied to CIT Ltd.
Daniel Kalchev
Vladimir Alexiev (vlad...@cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: >> you may wish to use nslookup to find out
: Well, I'm stuck here:
: > ls cit.bg
: [nic.digsys.bg]
: *** Can't list domain cit.bg: Query refused
: > cit.bg
: Server: nic.digsys.bg
: Address: 192.92.129.1
: Name: cit.bg
The primary BG TLD name server is ns.digsys.bg. All domain names whose
MX records or NS are not one of relay.eunet.bg or ns.digsys.bg are not
EUnet customers.
: > : Who resolved this conflict? Since you say CIT didn't, was it BGUUG alone?
: > BGUUG of course. After all, a domain name is not worth so much noise.
: You mean, they gave up? They acted wisely, I guess.
No. They probably were disgusted by the noise that was made out of
this case. BGUUG asked us to withdraw their application for that name.
: > Believe me, I have saved you enough other 'background facts'
: Please don't. Anything related to internet in Bulgaria is interesting for me
: (and I hope, for some other readers). But only the facts, please.
This discussion is getting quite out of topic already. If you want
more Internet related discussion, let's start a new thread - we
(EUnet) have quite some developments recently.
Veni Markovski
Daniel Kalchev said the following to All:
: > nqkolko firmi, organizacii i sdruzheniq s idealna cel, koito
: > chakat meseci
: > nared da poluchat domain ot daniel, no toj im bawi wsqcheski dokumentite
: > samo zashtoto te sa ne negowi klienti.
DK> : Viarno li e tova be, Daniele?
DK> Ne e. CIT podade zaqwka za registraciq na 35 imena na imeto na CIT
DK> Ltd. Tazi zaqwka beshe otkazana ot registyra, po nqkolko prichini,
DK> edna ot koito e che CIT weche imaha registrirani dwe (2) imena w
DK> BG.
I kakwo ot towa? Zashto trqbwa da ima limit?
DK> Ako CIT ima problemi da iobqsni na nabedenite si "klienti" kak da
DK> populnqt zaqwkite si za registraciq, ili da gi popylni ot tqhno ime
DK> (ne ot imeto na CIT Ltd), towa ne e problem na BG TLD registyra.
Chakaj malko: otkyde znaesh koq ot zaqwkite e za klient i koq - za nas? Ti si
mislihs, che btc e Bulgarian Telecommunication Company (pratil si im i pismo po
poshtata w tozi smisyl), no az ne mislq taka. Wsyshtnost izobshto ne sym se
setil, che btc = btk. Znachi TLD registyra misli wmesto men??!
DK> Mezdhu drugoto, tolkowa dylgo sprqganiq ot Veni Markovski i Dimitar
DK> Ganchev "Centyr za Izsledwane na Demokraciqta" naskoro si
DK> registrira sobstweno ime csd.bg - ne mi se shte da spekuliram s
DK> otziwite im za CIT i sie, no izglezhda nikak ne bqha polozhitelni.
Molq te, kazhi mi gi - tykmo shte mi swyrshat rabota.
: > bcs... crea.bg.. idea.bg.. bap.bg
DK> : Daniele, kakvo imash da kazhesh po tova?
DK> Tezi imena sa ot wyprosnat agrupa imena, koito CIT Ltd zhelaeshe da
DK> registrira za sebe si. Tezi organizacii nikoga ne sa podawali
DK> zaqwka za registraciq do BG-NIC.
Nqma i da podadat, zashtoto sa na hora, koito nqmat registrirani firmi.
: > he said that at the same time (day, hour, minutes) he has received
: > another
: > written, stamped and signed request for the same domain name - isoc.bg by
: > the BGUUG (?)
DK> : According to the rules he has posted, BGUUG can only claim
DK> bguug.bg. Daniel, : isn't this so?
DK> Razbira se. Po wremeto obache, kogato bguug poiska da registrira
DK> isoc.bg, wyprosnata organizaciq ("Internet Obshtestwo Bylgaria") ne
DK> beshe oshte registrirana.
Dryn-dryn! Pyrwo, po twoite prawila BGUUG izobshto NQMA prawo da podawa zaqwka
za ime, razlichno ot BGUUG. Chak posle idwat twoite idei za copy from court
registry i t.n.
DK> Tyj kato dosta se spekulira s moeto uchastie w tezi sybitiq, bih
DK> zaqwil publichno, che ne izpitwam zhelanie da se prisyedinq kym
DK> organizaciq, chijto prezident postoqnno bylwa nebiwalici po moj
DK> adres,
olele, dryzhte me:-) Az pisha samo po powod TLD Administratora. Sreshtu
fizicheskoto lice Daniel Kalchev, aka Danbo, nqmam nishto protiw (publichno go
kazwam)
Dimitar Ganchev
DK> There is no question of 'customers of CIT and customers of DigSys'.
DK> The domain name registration is absolutely irrelevant of whose
DK> customer the requesting company is. Period.
Biah obeshtal snoshti da nameria ls na name servera na bg tld. Eto go po-dolu.
Tam ima 5 (pet!) domaina, koito ne se obsluzhwat ot Digsys:
bulnet.bg
acad.bg
sisnet.bg
cit.bg
aubg.bg
Po wremeto, kogato cit.bg se registrira, aubg.bg beshe wse oshte klient na
Digsys (i weroiatno zatowa registriran), bulnet oshte ne syshtestwuwashe, a
acad.bg wse oshte beshe bgcict.bitnet. Edinstwenia domain, kojto ne se
obsluzhwashe ot Digsys beshe sisnet.bg i to, zashtoto te polzwat niakakyw
gateway ot/kym X400, a Digsys ne raboti po standart X400. Ili inache kazano,
niamashe (togawa) nito edin registriran takyw domain, a sega ima 5, ot koito
ediniat e nashiat, ediniat na Amerikanskia uniwersitet (kr...@aubg.bg mozhe da
izpishe tomowe za problemite si s TLD administratora), ediniat na Bylgarska
Akademia na Naukite (mi...@acad.bg syshto mozhe da izpishe tomowe, ne e redno da
im gi publikuwam bez tiahno syglasie), chetwyrtiat e po X400 izwyn Bylgaria (w
Chehia), a petiat ima samo edin mail exchanger. Kakwo poweche da goworim.
Period.
Eto go i listinga na BG TLD takyw, kakywto sym go wzel ot RIPE predi wreme.
ns.digsys.bg weche otkazwa zone transfer (sigurno za da ne mozhe nikoj da widi
kakwa e isitnata, dobre, che pazim backups), taka che niama kak da se sdobia s
po-nowo kopie.
Zab: IP adresite 192.92.*.* i 198.68.*.* sa na Digsys, eunet.bg syshto e Digsys,
kakto i relay.eu.net. Wseki sam mozhe da proweri kolko sa registriranite
domaini, koito ne se obsluzhwat ot Digsys.
Query about bg for record types ANY
Finding nameservers for bg ...
Query done, 6 answers, status: no error
Found 1 address for NS.EU.NET
Found 1 address for PYTHIA.FORTHNET.GR
Found 2 addresses for SUNIC.SUNET.SE
Found 1 address for NS.UU.NET
Found 3 addresses for ADMII.ARL.MIL
Found 1 address for NS.DIGSYS.bg
Trying server 192.16.202.11 (NS.EU.NET) ...
Asking zone transfer for bg ...
Trying server 137.39.1.3 (NS.UU.NET) ...
Asking zone transfer for bg ...
Trying server 139.91.1.1 (PYTHIA.FORTHNET.GR) ...
Asking zone transfer for bg ...
bg. 345600 IN SOA ns.digsys.bg.
hostmaster.nic.digsys.bg. (
200063 ;serial (version)
86400 ;refresh period (1 day)
14400 ;retry interval (4 hours)
2592000 ;expire time (4 weeks, 2 days)
345600 ;default ttl (4 days)
)
bg. 345600 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
bg. 345600 IN NS ns.eu.net.
bg. 345600 IN NS pythia.forthnet.gr.
bg. 345600 IN NS info.forthnet.gr.
bg. 345600 IN NS estia.csi.forth.gr.
bg. 345600 IN NS sunic.sunet.se.
bg. 345600 IN NS ns.uu.net.
bg. 345600 IN NS admii.arl.mil.
bulnet.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Leff Information Agency"
bulnet.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 gn.apc.org.
*.bulnet.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 gn.apc.org.
datecs.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
noac.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Noac GmbH - Sofia"
noac.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
noac.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.noac.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.noac.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
delimex.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Delimex-Sofia Ltd."
delimex.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
delimex.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.delimex.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.delimex.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
fels.bg. 172800 IN NS baltech.fels.bg.
baltech.fels.bg. 172800 IN A 193.68.186.1
baltech.fels.bg. 172800 IN A 193.68.1.10
fels.bg. 172800 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
fels.bg. 345600 IN NS ns.fels.bg.
bulbank.bg. 172800 IN NS bulb.bulbank.bg.
bulb.bulbank.bg. 172800 IN A 193.68.232.1
bulbank.bg. 172800 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
bulbank.bg. 345600 IN NS ns.bulbank.bg.
mgu.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.mgu.bg.
ns.mgu.bg. 86400 IN A 193.68.128.250
mgu.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN NS ns.uni-sofia.bg.
ns.uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN A 193.68.240.1
uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN NS ns.fmi.uni-sofia.bg.
uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN NS ns.ucc.uni-sofia.bg.
ns.ucc.uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN A 193.68.241.165
ns.ucc.uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN A 193.68.240.4
ns.ucc.uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN A 193.68.243.1
uni-sofia.bg. 36000 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
sps.bg. 3600 IN NS ns.sps.bg.
ns.sps.bg. 3600 IN A 193.68.112.1
sps.bg. 3600 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
uspc.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
uspc.bg. 345600 IN NS dsvme.digsys.bg.
dsvme.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.2
tu-plovdiv.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Technical University of
Plovdiv"
tu-plovdiv.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
tu-plovdiv.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.tu-plovdiv.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.tu-plovdiv.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
piet.bg. 345600 IN TXT "PIET - Sofia"
piet.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
piet.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.piet.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.piet.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
stara-zagora-city.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Stara Zagora Municipality"
stara-zagora-city.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
stara-zagora-city.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
enpro.bg. 172800 IN NS ns.enpro.bg.
ns.enpro.bg. 172800 IN A 193.68.120.1
enpro.bg. 172800 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
virbus.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Laboratory of Computer
Virulogy"
virbus.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
virbus.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.virbus.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.virbus.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
esa.bg. 345600 IN TXT "ESA Bulgaria Ltd"
esa.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
esa.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.esa.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.esa.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
iac.bg. 3600 IN NS ns.iac.bg.
ns.iac.bg. 3600 IN A 193.68.200.1
iac.bg. 3600 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
trans.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Transconsult"
trans.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
trans.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.trans.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.trans.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
nbu.bg. 345600 IN TXT "New Bulgarian University"
nbu.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
nbu.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.nbu.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.nbu.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
fadata.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Fadata Ltd."
fadata.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
fadata.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.fadata.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.fadata.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
unimasters.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.unimasters.bg.
ns.unimasters.bg. 86400 IN A 193.68.160.1
unimasters.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
sd-bul.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Sigma-Delta Bulgaria Ltd."
sd-bul.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
sd-bul.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.sd-bul.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.sd-bul.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
bande.bg. 345600 IN TXT "ET - B&E"
bande.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
bande.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.bande.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.bande.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
ibsc.bg. 345600 IN TXT "International Black Sea Club"
ibsc.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
ibsc.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.ibsc.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.ibsc.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
mt-mt.bg. 345600 IN TXT "MT & MT"
mt-mt.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
mt-mt.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.mt-mt.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.mt-mt.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
tu-varna.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Technical University of Varna"
tu-varna.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
tu-varna.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.tu-varna.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.tu-varna.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
bonchev-se.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Bonchev - SE"
bonchev-se.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
bonchev-se.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.bonchev-se.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.bonchev-se.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
acad.bg. 345600 IN NS amigo.acad.bg.
amigo.acad.bg. 69918 IN A 194.141.0.3
acad.bg. 345600 IN NS unicom.acad.bg.
unicom.acad.bg. 69899 IN A 194.141.0.9
acad.bg. 345600 IN NS ns1.univie.ac.at.
acad.bg. 345600 IN NS ns.aubg.bg.
ns.aubg.bg. 68902 IN A 193.68.137.57
acmbul.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Bulgarian Chapter of ACM"
acmbul.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
acmbul.bg. 345600 IN MX 200 relay.eu.net.
*.acmbul.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.acmbul.bg. 345600 IN MX 200 relay.eu.net.
busoft.bg. 345600 IN TXT "BUSOFT Enginering Ltd."
busoft.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
busoft.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.busoft.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.busoft.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
chs.bg. 345600 IN TXT "CHS - Bulgaria Ltd."
chs.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
chs.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
usw.bg. 345600 IN TXT "United Software Writers Ltd."
usw.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
usw.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.usw.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.usw.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
sisnet.bg. 345600 IN TXT "SIS Technology"
sisnet.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 chx400.switch.ch.
mdsystem.bg. 345600 IN TXT "MD Export/Import Systems Ltd"
mdsystem.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
mdsystem.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
incoma-td.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Incoma-TD Ltd."
incoma-td.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
incoma-td.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
abc-invest.bg. 345600 IN TXT "ABC Invest Ltd"
abc-invest.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
abc-invest.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
koraboimpex.bg. 345600 IN TXT "KoraboImpex Ltd."
koraboimpex.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
koraboimpex.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.koraboimpex.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.koraboimpex.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
eltex.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Eltex"
eltex.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
eltex.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.eltex.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.eltex.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
topteam.bg. 345600 IN TXT "TopTeam Co."
topteam.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
topteam.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.topteam.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.topteam.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
cit.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Computer Information &
Technology"
cit.bg. 345600 IN MX 200 glas.apc.org.
cit.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 redgate.glas.apc.org.
*.cit.bg. 345600 IN MX 200 glas.apc.org.
*.cit.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 redgate.glas.apc.org.
bsif.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Black Sea Investment Fund"
bsif.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
bsif.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
fpbank.bg. 345600 IN TXT "First Private Bank"
fpbank.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
fpbank.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.fpbank.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.fpbank.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
digsys.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
digsys.bg. 86400 IN NS dsvme.digsys.bg.
dsvme.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.2
digsys.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.eu.net.
udbc.bg. 345600 IN TXT "University of Delaware -
Bulgaria Coalition"
udbc.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
udbc.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.udbc.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.udbc.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
sirma.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Sirma AI Ltd."
sirma.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
sirma.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.sirma.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.sirma.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
technologica.bg. 345600 IN TXT "TechnoLogica Ltd."
technologica.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
technologica.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.technologica.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.technologica.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
aubg.bg. 345600 IN NS ns.aubg.bg.
ns.aubg.bg. 68902 IN A 193.68.137.57
aubg.bg. 345600 IN NS ns1.univie.ac.at.
meteo.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.meteo.bg.
ns.meteo.bg. 86400 IN A 193.68.208.4
meteo.bg. 86400 IN NS mailhost.meteo.bg.
mailhost.meteo.bg. 86400 IN A 193.68.208.5
meteo.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
meteo.bg. 3600 IN NS super1.rthsf.meteo.bg.
super1.rthsf.meteo.bg. 86400 IN A 193.68.208.4
uni-shoumen.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Konstantin Preslavsky
University, Shoumen"
uni-shoumen.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
uni-shoumen.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.uni-shoumen.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.uni-shoumen.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
bulpac.bg. 345600 IN TXT "BULPAC, Bulgarian
Telecommunication Company"
bulpac.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
bulpac.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.bulpac.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.bulpac.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
infotel.bg. 3600 IN NS ns.infotel.bg.
ns.infotel.bg. 3600 IN A 193.68.224.33
infotel.bg. 3600 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
infotel.bg. 3600 IN NS main.infotel.bg.
main.infotel.bg. 3600 IN A 193.68.224.33
usis.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
usis.bg. 345600 IN NS dsvme.digsys.bg.
dsvme.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.2
danbo.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
danbo.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
who.bg. 345600 IN TXT "WHO Liaison Office"
who.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
who.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
blacksea.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Black Sea Ltd."
blacksea.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
blacksea.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.blacksea.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.blacksea.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
btu.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Bourgas Technology University"
btu.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
btu.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.btu.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.btu.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
novecon.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Novecon Ltd."
novecon.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
novecon.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.novecon.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.novecon.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
petrotecs.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Petrotecs Ltd."
petrotecs.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
petrotecs.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.petrotecs.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.petrotecs.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
libvar.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
boged.bg. 345600 IN TXT "BOGED Ltd."
boged.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
boged.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
uni-plovdiv.bg. 86400 IN NS ulcc.uni-plovdiv.bg.
ulcc.uni-plovdiv.bg. 86400 IN A 193.68.180.5
uni-plovdiv.bg. 345600 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
io-bas.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
io-bas.bg. 345600 IN NS ns.io-bas.bg.
tu-rousse.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Technical University of Russe"
tu-rousse.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
tu-rousse.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.tu-rousse.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.tu-rousse.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
eunet.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.digsys.bg.
ns.digsys.bg. 86400 IN A 192.92.129.1
eunet.bg. 86400 IN NS ns.eu.net.
iinf.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Institute of Informatics, BAS"
iinf.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
iinf.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.iinf.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.iinf.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
vintech.bg. 345600 IN TXT "VINTECH Ltd"
vintech.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
vintech.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
ista.bg. 345600 IN TXT "ISTA AD"
ista.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
ista.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
*.ista.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
*.ista.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
embuy.bg. 345600 IN TXT "Embassy of Uruguay"
embuy.bg. 345600 IN MX 50 relay.eunet.bg.
embuy.bg. 345600 IN MX 100 relay.eu.net.
bg. 345600 IN SOA ns.digsys.bg.
hostmaster.nic.digsys.bg. (
200063 ;serial (version)
86400 ;refresh period (1 day)
14400 ;retry interval (4 hours)
2592000 ;expire time (4 weeks, 2 days)
345600 ;default ttl (4 days)
)
Transfer complete, 313 records received for bg
Regards,
\\itko
Dimitar Ganchev
DK> Mezdhu drugoto, tolkowa dylgo sprqganiq ot Veni Markovski i Dimitar
DK> Ganchev "Centyr za Izsledwane na Demokraciqta" naskoro si
DK> registrira sobstweno ime csd.bg - ne mi se shte da spekuliram s
DK> otziwite im za CIT i sie, no izglezhda nikak ne bqha polozhitelni.
Koeto e MNOGO stranno predwid towa, che Centyryt za Izsledwane na Demokraciata
e naj-golemia shareholder w CIT Ltd (imat po-goliam dial i ot men). Ostawa da
kazhesh, che sa predlozhili na Digsys da izkupi akciite im w CIT :-)
A otnosno otziwite: normalno e da ne sa polozhitelni, sled kato nie predlagame
uslugite sreshtu zaplashtane i predstawiame smetki dori na akcionerite. Te sega
sa wyrzani bezplatno kym Akademiata na naukite i sa predowolni i shtastliwi.
Neshto, sreshtu koeto az niamam nishto protiw, ne me razbiraj greshno.
Regards,
\\itko
Daniel Kalchev
Dimitar Ganchev (mit...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> : s tazi gimnastika CIT.BG beshe dylgo wreme edinstwenia
: DK> domain, registriran w : Bylgaria, kojto ne izpolzwashe
: DK> uslugite na Cifrowi sistemi. Problemi ot podobno
: DK> Towa syshto ne e wqrno. Mnogo predi CIT izobshto da se
: DK> swyrzhe kym mrezhata, w BG imashe domain imena, koito ne se
: DK> obsluzhwat ot EUnet. Dali edna organizaciq se obsluzhwa ot
: DK> edin ili drug ISP nqmam nikakwo znachenie za registraciqta,
: DK> dokolkoto towa obsluzhwane dejsteitelno syshtestwuwa.
: Imam store-nat "ls" na name servera ti (predi da se setish da zabranish zone
: transfera) i tam ima tochno 1 (edin) domain, kojto ne se obsluzhwa ot EUnet. W
: edna ot direktoriite na name servera w ofisa mi e, dano utre se setia da go
: postna.
T.e. ti potwyrzhdawash, che po-gornoto ti izqwlenie ne e sywsem wqrno,
i che i predi CIT e imalo registrirani imena w BG, koito ne sa
obsluzhwani ot EUnet.
Daniel
Veni Markovski
: > CIT applied for a domain name crea, which is a BBS in Sofia, that
: > is created
: > by a yound 16-years old SysOp, well known in Sofia. He can't register a
: > company (it's too expensive), so he asked us to apply.
DK> : If there is no name CREA yet, I don't see why that boy shouldn't
DK> get the name. : What's wrong with him getting that name?
DK> 1. He has never applied for it.
DK> 2. A private person cannot register a domain name under BG.
Well, how then he can apply? That's where CIT comes.
DK> : I just got an idea: why doesn't DigSys "sublicense" CIT with DNS
DK> authority for : clients who use CIT as their ISP? DigSys would make
DK> DNS entries for names : supplied by CIT in "batch mode", and the
DK> responsibility for any legal problems : with these names will rest
DK> with CIT, or with whoever they arrange it. CIT can : institute
DK> whatever rules they see fit. And only in the case of a name
DK> conflict : between two customers of DigSys and CIT would
DK> negotiations be necessary.
DK> It is possible, that CIT Ltd assists these organizations to fill
DK> the domain name request form and submits the documentation to
DK> BG-NIC. BG-NIC cannot sublicense anyone to assign domain names
DK> under BG.
DK> What CIT Ltd has done was to submit 35 domain name applications, to
DK> be registered on the name of CIT Ltd, then claiming that these are
DK> their customers.
This is a malicious lie! We never claimed these are all our customers! And
Danbo, what about veni.bg and mitko.bg, and citnet.bg, and citcom.bg?? Or many
others? Why didn't you send me a letter saying that CIT wants to "take" my
name?
Besides, what you have written is not an answer to the question.
DK> There is no question of 'customers of CIT and customers of DigSys'.
DK> The domain name registration is absolutely irrelevant of whose
DK> customer the requesting company is. Period.
The period could be there only if the registry is an automatic procedure.
DK> Since you seem to look at the Internet from a US point of view,
DK> here is an example: Your company is "My Comp, Inc". Would you agree
DK> that if your service provider is for example PSI, Inc, the domain
DK> name MYCOMP.COM be registered to PSI, Inc, instead of to your
DK> company?
Funny example. Who is supposed to know that such a company exists? The registry
or PSI? And how in Bulgaria can you make sure a company is registered or not,
and why would you - at all! - be interested in this?
Veni Markovski
Vladimir Alexiev said the following to All:
VA> Did BGUUG get the name isoc.bg or not? If it did, then you *have*
VA> taken the job of resolving disputes, and in a rather unilateral
VA> way.
It didn't and it couldn't - according to Danbo's private policy - that way he
fall into his own trap.
> About ISOC, I still do not think you have real intention to build an ISOC
> chapter in Bulgaria, especially as it seems this is proving to be a
> difficult task.
VA> You can only say this in an inofficial capacity, not as a TLD
VA> official.
The problem is he's both!
VA> Daniel, since your position ivolves conflict of
VA> interest, you should be very careful about your actions and words
VA> if you care about your clean name. Kakto e kazal narodyt "Kogato si
VA> v chuzhd bostan, ne se navezhdaj dazhe za da si zavyrzhesh
VA> obuvkite".
ne mu go kazwaj - toj si go znae. A be, celite sme ozgoreni, no pak ne znaem da
duhame.
Here are some more mails about Danbo's private usage of Internet:
---begin forwarded messages
Date : Wed Feb 21, 10:08 pvt rcv
From : Krassimir Simonsky 248:100/2
To : Veni Markovski 248:100/17
Subj : Please advise
哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪
Dear RIPE,
I am afraid I do not understand the behaviour of the hostmaster of
domain ".bg". What we asked him to do recently was to add the
subdomain swu.bg to .bg's nameserver, so that this organization
could be accessable from outside. Attached is the correspondence we
had with Mr. Daniel Kalchev on this. Prior to our request I
added information about swu.bg subdomain in RIPE database and
received 2 class C IP numbers on their behalf as well.
Mr. Kalchev response was that we not use Email as communications
tool but regular mail. He Emailed an application form in Word for
Windows format, which caused us troubles to uudecode. The document
sounds a little strange for me, though. It involves the country legislation
requiring that subdomains be registered only by a legal entity.
Signiture and stamp are required too.
Then, there is a paragraph saying that the registered organization is
fully responsible for the behaviour of its objects according to the
Bulgarian law!?(black page)
It is a little strange for me if such an application form is
approved by RIPE. Let me know, however, if you have not read this
yet. I am ready to translate it for you.
Regarding the above and few other complaints from Bulgaria which I
received but can not forward without the permission of the sender
about the top-level domain registry and maintenance, I would like to
complain that the services provided by Daniel Kalchev are
discriminatory, and not consistent with Internet policy. All
organizations that have troubles are just not his customers. We were
connected through him before and had no such troubles before. Email
was enough to solve any problem.
I also question the eligibility of Mr. Daniel Kalchev as top-level
registry, regarding items 2, 3, 4, and 5 of RFC1591. This document
says that the manager should be trustee, must be equitable to all
groups, interested parties to have some voice in selecting the
designated manager, and that the manager must do a satisfactory job
of operating the DNS service for the domain.
I also consider that Mr. Kalchev is delaying all "outside"
(understand not his customers) user requests on purpose, so that
people will use his services only because thus they will have no
troubles with addresses, and domain names. In support of this is
the fact that I hardly recieve a reply from him if I do not cc to
n...@ripe.net.
Please advise on what can be done to improve registration services
in Bulgaria.
Best regards,
Krassimir Simonsky
KS1-RIPE
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: hostm...@digsys.bg (BG-NIC Hostmaster)
To: "Krassimir Simonsky" <KR...@nws.aubg.bg>
Cc: VALE...@nws.aubg.bg, n...@ripe.net
Subject: Re: SWU.BG domain
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 13:05:21 +0200
Dear Mr. Simonsky,
Please forward this message to the person behind Di...@aix.swu.bg, as this
address does not exist at the moment.
The BG Internet Domain registry has specific procedures for applying for
domain names. It is not sufficient to insert a bogus domain name into the RIPE
database. The RIPE database is definitely not authoritative for domain names.
The data there is only for information.
I am sending you a Word for Windows document, which contains the current
domain registration form. If you cannot print it, please provide us with the
postal address of the South West University so that we can send them an form.
In any case, we cannot process the domain name request, before we have the
form, signed by an executive officer of the organization requesting it.
Best Regards,
Daniel Kalchev
BG-NIC
In message <19651...@nws.aubg.bg>, "Krassimir Simonsky" writes:
>Dear Hostmaster,
>
>SWU.BG is registered in the RIPE database with all needed addresses,
>telephones and faxes. 2 class C addresses were already assigned to
>it. I attach this information below.
>
>What their network manager wants only is their nameserver to be
>listed in the .BG nameserver. This is why they can not be reached
>via Email from outside. Therefore, Mr. Dimov is asking me to make
>the request on his behalf via Email which we consider the best way to
>communicate the need. If special request form is needed for
>including a subdomain into your name server please advise.
>
>Thank you,
>Krassimir Simonsky
>KS1-RIPE
>
>Date sent: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 13:27:54 +0200
>From: Krassimir Simonsky <Kr...@nws.aubg.bg>
>Organization: American University in Bulgaria
>To: Di...@aix.swu.bg
>Copies to: Vale...@rs.aubg.bg, Kr...@rs.aubg.bg
>Subject: gopher://whois.ripe.net:43/0194.141.18
>
>inetnum: 194.141.18.0 - 194.141.19.0
>netname: SWU
>descr: South West University
>descr: Blagoevgrad
>country: BG
>admin-c: Peter Dimov
>tech-c: Lubomir Yordanov
>changed: sa...@bgcict.acad.bg 960207
>source: RIPE
>
>route: 194.141.0.0/19
>descr: UNICOM.BG, aggregated Provider Local Registry Block
>origin: AS1853
>mnt-by: AS1853-MNT
>changed: pan...@cc.univie.ac.at 951004
>source: RIPE
>
>person: Peter Dimov
>address: South West University
>address: 66 Aleksi Velichkov St
>address: 2700 Blagoevgrad
>address: Bulgaria
>phone: +359 736 5268
>fax-no: +359 732 9325
>changed: Kr...@nws.aubg.bg 960104
>source: RIPE
>
>person: Lubomir Yordanov
>address: South West University
>address: 66 Aleksi Velichkov St
>address: 2700 Blagoevgrad
>address: Bulgaria
>phone: +359 736 5268
>fax-no: +359 732 9325
>changed: Kr...@nws.aubg.bg 960104
>source: RIPE
>
>> From: hostm...@digsys.bg (BG-NIC Hostmaster)
>> To: "Krassimir Simonsky" <KR...@nws.aubg.bg>
>> Cc: VALE...@nws.aubg.bg
>> Subject: Re: SWU.BG domain
>> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 11:36:54 +0200
>
>> Dear Mr. Simonsky,
>>
>> The BG Top-Level registry can only register a domain name, applied for
>> by the organization which will later 'own' that domain name. We need
>> specific information about the organization. If you provide us with
>> their postal adres, we will send our current domain registration
>> request form, which after completion they should return back to
>> BG-NIC.
>>
>> If you have further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Daniel Kalchev
>> BG-NIC
>>
>> In message <5805...@nws.aubg.bg>, "Krassimir Simonsky" writes:
>> >Dear Daniel,
>> >
>> >Would you add to bg.'s nameserver the domain SWU.BG. This is South
>> >West University which name server is ns.swu.bg (194.141.18.3). We
>> >run a secondary name server for them at ns.aubg.bg (193.68.137.57):
>> >
>> >swu.bg. IN NS ns.swu.bg.
>> >ns.swu.bg. IN A 194.141.18.3
>> >
>> >Please advise if more information is needed or we follow wrong steps.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Krasi
>> >
>
======================================
Krassimir Simonsky
American University in Bulgaria
2700 Blagoevgrad
BULGARIA
tel.:(+359) 732 3768
fax: (+359) 732 1181
Kr...@nws.aubg.bg
* Origin: KR...@nws.aubg.bg (Krassimir Simonsky)
------
Area : Received
Date : Mon Feb 26, 17:58 pvt rcv
From : Krassimir Simonsky 248:100/2
To : Veni Markovski 248:100/17
Subj : BG-NIC case
哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪
Dear Geert,
Thanks and sorry for involving you in this case. We desperately need
advises from you or somebody with enough authority to solve the case.
I just would like to add some comments on Daniel's answer to the
complains.
1. SWU case.
A. You all understand from his statement that no domain can be
registered without formal application signed and stamped which
means that no Email can be used for the purpose.
B. The attempt to avoid the Bulgarian Law involvement is pitty.
Signiture ans stamp is even enough evidence. But there is a paragraph
in the application which says literraly:
"Organization who has registered a domain, is LEGALLY responsible for
the activities of the objects, registered in this domain, concerning
other organizations connected to Internet"
The way it sounds in Bulgarian it assumes only the Bulgarian law. If
it is not so, it must be explicitly mentioned!
C. I should have filled such application form on behalf of AUBG 4
years ago but can not remember any troubles. Our Internet provider
then was Digsys!?
D. It took me only one telephone call to register aubg.edu domain in
Washington, DC. The only concern of the register was if there would
be already a domain under the same name!? Why the things should be
so complicate in Bulgaria? I do not see any other reason but on
purpose.
E. I advised SWU to sign the application form and fax to Daniel.
It, however, does not mean that either I or Mr. Dimov agree that
this procedure is the right one. I appreciate Daniel's willingness
to improve the procedure which is one of the purposes of this mail
exchange.
2. no comments
3. no comments
4. No personal dislikes here. There is nothing personal in this case
and if somebody is trying to imply this, there is another reason that
something is wrong.
There are 3 major Internet providers in Bulgaria (Digsys, UNICOM-B,
CIT). I do not include AUBG here. We are a big user but not a
provider. Two of three plus AUBG are not pleased by the TDL
services provided by Daniel, which has nothing to do with personal
dislikes.
5. I appreciate the efforts to post the documents regarding the
BG-NIC activities.
Best regards,
Krassimir Simonsky
======================================
Krassimir Simonsky
American University in Bulgaria
2700 Blagoevgrad
BULGARIA
tel.:(+359) 732 3768
fax: (+359) 732 1181
Kr...@nws.aubg.bg
* Origin: KR...@nws.aubg.bg (Krassimir Simonsky)
---
Date : Wed Feb 28, 17:12 pvt rcv kil
From : Krassimir Simonsky 248:100/2
To : Veni Markovski 248:100/17
Subj : (Fwd) BG-NIC
哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <AUBG/KRASI>
To: RIPE NCC Staff <n...@ripe.net>
Subject: BG-NIC
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:30:53 GMT-3
Dear Geert,
I think it is time to hear what RIPE thinks about the registration
policy and procedure in Bulgaria. Any additional internal mail
exchange will cause only more nasty replies.
Summarizing the discussion, I conclude to the following:
1. Registration procedure of TDL for Bulgaria discriminates other
Internet service providers in Bulgaria, thus causing end-users to
suffer. Arguments in support of this are:
-no ISP can register, even request registration, of BG's subdomain.
Only end-users are allowed to do this.
-no ISP can do it on behalf of other organizations because
authorization signiture and stamp are required.
2. The local procedure and registrar behavior humiliate the
end-users.
-most people want to be connected but have no knowledge how even to
fill the documents. For instance, there was an tricky item in the
form called "default routing" which actually refers to mail exchanger
which is mentioned with small letters at the bottom of the page.
Even I got lost when I helped SWU.
-every request from outside organization is accepted as a war. See
our mail exchange. The tone in some Daniel's mails is offensive.
- every flaw in the application form is used as an excuse for
refusing registration. In SWU case, the last one was the missing
stamp. I assume the next one will be that I have not removed the
SWU record from the RIPE database (please remove this sentence if
you forward to Daniel because it refers to an expected action but
keep it in mind).
Regarding this case, I have the following questions to you:
Have RIPE ever seen, reviewed, or approved the application forms for
domain registration used by Daniel?
Do you require TDL registrars to provide, post, information about
their policy and needed documents to all whom it may concern?
What ways of communicating requests would you recommend?
What the right policy should be for Bulgaria?
How was Daniel chosen to serve as TDL registrar for Bulgaria?
Were there any other complains from Daniel's services in the past
and how were they handled by RIPE?
Best regards,
Krasi
======================================
Krassimir Simonsky
American University in Bulgaria
2700 Blagoevgrad
BULGARIA
tel.:(+359) 732 3768
fax: (+359) 732 1181
Kr...@nws.aubg.bg
* Origin: KR...@nws.aubg.bg (Krassimir Simonsky)
Area : Received
Date : Thu Mar 28, 16:20 pvt rcv
From : Krassimir Simonsky 248:100/2
To : Veni Markovski 248:100/17
Subj : (Fwd) HUMOR Digest - 26 Mar 1996 to 27 Mar 1996
哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪哪
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 14:17:55 GMT-3
Subject: HUMOR Digest - 26 Mar 1996 to 27 Mar 1996
------------------------------
TOP TEN ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY RIDICULOUS HOST NAMES
10. dam.mit.edu
9. monarch.butterfly.net
8. gratuitouslylonghostname.apana.org.au
7. drag.net
6. my-hostname-is-longer-than-yours.mit.edu
5. tragically.hip.berkeley.edu
4. dislocated.hip.berkeley.edu
3. ohsaycan.ucc.american.edu
2. huh_huh.fire.com
1. vo.mit.edu
------------------------------
F.Y.I. This will certainly not happen in Bulgaria, don't you think so?
Regards, Krasi
======================================
Krassimir Simonsky
American University in Bulgaria
2700 Blagoevgrad
BULGARIA
tel.:(+359) 732 3768
fax: (+359) 732 1181
Kr...@nws.aubg.bg
* Origin: KR...@nws.aubg.bg (Krassimir Simonsky)
---end of forwarded messages
Daniel Kalchev
Dimitar Ganchev (mi...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> Mezdhu drugoto, tolkowa dylgo sprqganiq ot Veni Markovski i Dimitar
: DK> Ganchev "Centyr za Izsledwane na Demokraciqta" naskoro si
: DK> registrira sobstweno ime csd.bg - ne mi se shte da spekuliram s
: DK> otziwite im za CIT i sie, no izglezhda nikak ne bqha polozhitelni.
: Koeto e MNOGO stranno predwid towa, che Centyryt za Izsledwane na Demokraciata
: e naj-golemia shareholder w CIT Ltd (imat po-goliam dial i ot men). Ostawa da
: kazhesh, che sa predlozhili na Digsys da izkupi akciite im w CIT :-)
Dali e stranno ili ne, ne e moq rabota. A otnosno akciite, zawisi ot
cenata. :-)
Daniel
--
Daniel Kalchev
ma...@arbornet.org wrote:
: ven...@cit.bg (Veni Markovski) wrote:
: >Uwazhaemi dami i g-da!
: >Towa nenormalen chowek li go pishe ili da? Maria Antoaneta nawremeto beshe
: >kazala 'Kato nqma hlqb, da qdat pasti'. Liceto Kalchev preporychwa da qdem w
: >restoranti? 8 miliona bylgari, nachelo s pensionerite s po $ 20 /mesec pensii
: >da qdat w restoranti?? Drugarju Kalchev, opomnete se! Dokato ne e stanalo kysno.
: Kogato pechelish tolkowa pari i wsichkite ti ceni sa w $ e taka (sys
: sigurnost pecheli poweche oot 20$/mesec...
Interesno za kogo stawa wypros?
Daniel Kalchev
Veni Markovski (ven...@cit.bg) wrote:
: DK> : If there is no name CREA yet, I don't see why that boy shouldn't
: DK> get the name. : What's wrong with him getting that name?
: DK> 1. He has never applied for it.
: DK> 2. A private person cannot register a domain name under BG.
: Well, how then he can apply? That's where CIT comes.
As it was already said, this is not possible at the moment. With CIT,
or witout CIT. It is not likely that individuals will be able to
register second level domains under BG. Perhaps it may be possible to
register third level domains, if the proper procedure is arranged for.
: DK> What CIT Ltd has done was to submit 35 domain name applications, to
: DK> be registered on the name of CIT Ltd, then claiming that these are
: DK> their customers.
: This is a malicious lie! We never claimed these are all our customers!
This is what you told RIPE and IANA.
Dimitar Ganchev
VA> Having read the latest in this thread, I agree with you. However,
VA> you didn't need court registrations to figure this out and decide
VA> to deny the names. And I still think you don't need court papers to
VA> register CREA.
What about citnet.bg, citcom.bg, mitko.bg, veni.bg?
Izprashtaneto na 35-te zaiawki, priznawam, beshe chista prowokacia ot nasha
strana, za da izlezne naiawe nachinyt na dejstwie na Daniel Kalchev kato TLD
administrator. No towa ne beshe nachaloto na konflikta, a samo lakmus, kojto
dawa cherno na bialo material za razsyzhdenie. Da, wytre imashe imena kato BNB,
PROSOFT, etc., koito ne ni "prinadlezhat", no imashe i takiwa, koito sme
registrirali kato tyrgowski marki, takiwa, koito ne prinadlezhat nikomu (sywsem
sluchajno generirani) i takiwa, koito ochewidno prinadlezhat na nas (mitko.bg,
veni.bg). Daniel gi otkaza wsichkite ednowremenno (zabelezhete, towa sa 35
razlichni, otdelni zaiawki, samo pyhnati w obsht DHL paket), bez da dade
nikakyw konkreten otgowor na wsiaka otdelna zaiawka. Nie osporwame slednite
iziskwania:
1. TLD da preceniawa koe ime na kogo prinadlezhi. Spored nas triabwa da se
spazwa principyt, kojto wazhi pri registracia na tyrgowski marki - pyrwi
poiskal, pyrwi poluchil.
2. Da se registrira samo po edno ime na kompania. Towa oswen che niama nikakwo
razumno obiasnenie (oswen, che namaliawa razmera na /etc/namedb/bg.ns fajla),
prechi na kompaniite da razdeliat uslugite si po smisyl, geografsko polozhenie,
market share ili kakwoto i da e.
3. Da se iziskwat kakwito i da sa pismeni dokumenti. Oswen, che niama smisyl
(registyryt dosri ne e iuridichesko lice po smisyla na zakona), dawa
wyzmozhnost za spekulacii kato tazi s BGUUG
Towa sa iziskwania, wywedeni edinstweno ot Daniel Kalchev, koito niamat analog
w swetownata praktika. Nie registrirahme cit.net za broeni minuti samo chrez
email, bez dori da znaem imeto na kompaniata, operirashta registyra na NET TLD,
bez da ni pitat CIT firma li e ili kakwo. Imame osnowanie da smiatame, che tezi
iziskwania sa wywedeni za da mozhe firma Cifrowi sistemi da se postawi w
priwilegirowano polozhenie i faktite go dokazwat. S drugi dumi, smiatame tezi
prawila za proiawa na neloialna konkurencia. Registyryt triabwa da raboti
mehanichno (da ne kazha awtomatichno) i da wzema reshenia samo na bazata na
tehnicheski parametri. Taka naprimer registraciata na CIT.NET beshe zabawena s
dwa dni, zashtoto imashe razliki w SOA record w primary i secondary name
server. Shtom tazi razlika izchezna (koeto be ustanoweno ot awtomatichen
software), registraciata beshe fakt.
Towa, koeto predlagame neednokratno e funkciata na TLD da se poeme ot niakoj
nekomersialen wyzel, samostoiatelno swyrzan kym Internet (bez da polzwa
uslugite na mesten provider). Takiwa w Bylgaria sa Amerikanskiat Uniwersitet w
Blagoewgrad (AUBG.BG) i Bylgarska Akademia na Naukite (acad.bg). W niakoi
ewropejski strani e syzdaden i apelacionen sywet ot predstawiteli na major ISPs,
kojto wzema reshenie pri wyzniknali sporowe s TLD administraciata. Ne moga da
razbera zashto Daniel Kalchev i Cifrowi sistemi uporito otkazwat i da chuiat za
takyw wariant... Wie mozhete li?
Regards,
Mitko
P.S. Dori registyryt da raboti perfektno, lipsata na dowerie w negowata
bezpristrastnost triabwa da e dostatychna prichina za syzdawane na struktura,
koiato nito shte syzdawa subektiwni problemi, nito bi mogla da byde atakuwana
ot niakogo za swoe desjtwie ili bezdejstwie.
Daniel Kalchev
Dimitar Bojantchev (dim...@netcom.com) wrote:
: I am not sure why a company name is necessary at all in order to
: register a domain name? But it is interesting to compare to some other
: European country, let's say Germany. Are there similar bureaucratic
: stoppages for domain registration or this is something going on in
: Bulgaria only?
Details of the German procedures are available at http://www.nic.de/.
It's in German.
Similar procedures exist in almost all European countries.
On who is who in Internet BG - this of course depends on who you ask.
:-)
I can say what Digital Systems (EUnet does). Digital Systems has
started offering basic Internet services (e-mail) comemrcialy in 1991.
In 1992 we started offering full TCP/IP connectivity and got our first
leased line customer. In 1994 we installed the first terrestrial
leased line to connect Bulgaria to the rest of the Internet (someone
will say that leased lines were in use before that - yes, but these
were private lines, not connected to Internet). In 1996 we installed
the first all-digital 64 kbps leased line Sofia - Asmterdam in
Bulgaria. Currently EUnet Bulgaria has local nodes (idenatical to the
nodes in Varna and Sofia) in: Sofia, Plovdiv, Varna, Bourgas, Stara
Zagora, Pleven, Haskovo, Razgrad and Svishtov. These nodes are
interconnected via leased lines and offer the full range of Internet
services. The services we offer are being used by individuals,
non-profit organizations, universities (we have about 20 connected!),
government agencies and commercial companies. We have special, lower
University and Research organizations pricing.
Some people speculate who Digital Systems is. Digital Systems is a
private company, with 100% Bulgarian capital. It is part of the EUnet
group of companies (each in every European country) and has been so
since 1991, even before EUnet was fully commercial. EUnet has it's own
infrastructure across Europe and the US, with some 12 Mbps transatlantic
capacity at the moment.
With regards to the BG TLD registry, Digital Systems has registered
the BG TLD and maintains the TLD registry for Bulgaria.
Digital Systems also maintains the EUnet IP numbers registry (which
can only allocate IP address space to EUnet customers).
Digital Systems maintains the last-resort IP registry for Bulgaria.
Currently no address space is being allocated by this registry,
because using of non "Provider Aggregatable" addresses is strongly
discouraged in Internet. This registry may soon resume operation, if
there is enough justified demand.
: Nothings comes easy and straightforward... Za vsyako neshto se iska da
: celuvash zadnik. Aman.
I will strongly disagree with this. If someone has aksed you for a
'favour', that has not been Digital Systems.
Vladimir Alexiev
In article <1c461b09.248.100/14...@cit.bg> mit...@cit.bg (Dimitar Ganchev) writes:
Zashto Minstry of Foreign Affairs ne e mfa.bg, a e mfa.cit.bg?
Daniel i Veni, kakvo e vasheto obiasnenie?
> A 3-te prichini biaha: 1. Neodtatychna informacia. 2. NIakoi ot imenata sa
> izwestni tyrgowski marki na drugi firmi. 3. CIT ima weche registrirano ime.
Mitko, ti nali ne tvyrdish, che otnoshenieto mezhdu sun i javasoft i podobno
na otnoshenieto mezhdu cit i bnb, ili cit i prosoft?
Spored men Daniel ima trudnata zadacha da kodificira po niakakyv nachin
edna razumna pozicia po vyprosa. Za men bezsporno e razumno da se otkazhat
na cit imenata bnb i prosoft (osven ako cit mozhe da predstavi spravka ot
bnb i prosoft, che te ia upylnomoshtavat da dejstva po registraciata im).
> Az iskah mitko.bg za sebe si, za da si naprawia web server
Spored men registriraneto na personalni imena ne e razumno, zashtoto shte
dovede do zadrystvane na domain name space s mnozhestvo imena. Po syshtata
prichina ne mi haresva, che v USA se otvaria nov domain za pochti vseki nov
film (toystory.com, etc).
> http://www.cit.bg/~mitko ne e dostatychno personalno,
No pyk ti ne si dostatychno vazhen, za da ti se dade otdelno domain ime.
Izviniavaj. Vizh obache, ako ti naprimer si Dynovist i iskash da napravish
stranica za dynovistite i poiskash dynov.bg (Daniele, eto ti primer za
"neformalna organizacia"), ne vizhdam zashto da ne ti se dade.
> sled wereme mozhe da ne rabotia w CIT i da niamam miasto w tehnia server
V USA pobox.com predlaga slednata usluga sreshtu primerno $10/god: redirect
na http://www.pobox.com/~mitko kym www.cit.bg/~mitko (ili tam kydeto e
Mitkovata stranica v momenta) i na poshta mi...@pobox.com kym mi...@cit.bg.
Eto tova
Spored men Mitko, na teb ne tie pritriabvalo mitko.bg, a si go napravil
prosto za da draznish Daniel.