Anti-gay police action in Bulgaria
Alex Yordanov
Below is an article by Angel Bliznachki about the most recent anti-gay
police action in Bulgaria. It can be found at:
http://abacus.oxy.edu/qrd/world/europe/bulgaria/antigay.police.action-07.96
A very interesting law of the European Community can be found at:
http://abacus.oxy.edu/qrd/world/europe/ec/ECGU-equal.rights-03.29.95
Being a patriotic Bulgarian and caring about the equal rights of *all*
Bulgarian citizens I want to bring this article to everyone's attention.
Alex
POLICE CRUSHES THE BULGARIAN GAY ORGANIZATION "FLAMINGO"
With fabricated accusations of breaking some laws an attempt is made to
put an end to the only one detached and self-dependent gay and lesbian
structure in the country. The marauding attitude of the police and its
repressive methods will lead to a new, marked confrontation between the
two social components. The economic ruin, the financial liquidation of
the small and medium business, the ethnic tension, the bread shortage
result in crude conflicts. The spurring of sexism and discrimination of
the otherminded is taken as a good adavantage by the state in its effort
to get the public attention off its basic problems.
In the summer of 1990, at the invitation of the general secretary of the
International Gay and Lesbian Association ( ILGA ), Bulgaria was admitted
officially to membership in the international gay and lesbian community.
The contacts proceeded with the International Jew Congress, the
Christian-Democratic groupings ( EUROFORUM ), the International Gay and
Lesbian Human Rights Commission ( IGLHRC ) and other organizations. The
forming of structures in the country started, "Flamingo" - the first gay
and lesbian magazine in Bulgaria - was published. Economic mechanisms for
self-financing were created.
In 1994 erotic center "Flamingo" ( Sofia, 208 Tzar Simeon Street ) was
founded with businesslike participation in the erotic publications in
order to inform the Bulgarian gay community. Competitions ( "Mr. Eros",
"Sliven Hero"), carnivals, international days in[A the memory of the
v[Aictims of AIDS had been held. The medias participated in the organized
by us health prophylaxes and anti-AIDS activities periodically. Movies
were shown on the private channels. Every one of the activities resulted
in greater acceptance of "the people with double feeling" by the rest of
the society. That was also associated with reinforced interest of the
political organizations and public formations in us.
On the other hand, the strenghened impact of the Bulgarian gay and
lesbian community was followed by systematic repressions by the governmental
Astructures and their satellites, undercovered as racket groups, police
spying, phone tapping, "lost" of international and home correspondence,
threats, regular breaking of police officers in the places of gay
gathering, documental robberies, informations in the medias for the
existence of groupings, acting for the elimination of homosexuals. That
motivated some murders.
The start of the last police action for total liquidation of "Flamingo"
agency and its members is the brutal rush in the organization's office on
July 10, 1996. The police confiscated the cardfiles, the correspondence,
the computer for the information processing and other auxiliary technic,
advertising materials, merchandise, and sealed the center after a rude
and demonstrative arrest of the employees. The latters are forced, under
threat, to change their evidence. On the next day a police crushing of
the gay groups in the country started, with the respective unjustified cover.
The beraking of human rights and the sexual discrimination are a state
policy, carried on by certain people and groupings. Feature films with
homosexual element have been banished from the screen of the national
television by order of the state attorney Tatarchev and with the active
participation of the ex-director Granitski. The ex-chairman of the
International Labour organization and president of the National trade
union "Podkrepa" ( "Support" ) - Konstantin Trenchev - publicly
stigmatized the tolerant attitude of the opposition ex-prime minister
Filip Dimitrov and his team of ministers as "psychopats, for whom there
is no place in the government".
I call all the tolerant people in the world, public organizations and
governments for moral, material and political help. Because of the
constant police pressure on me and the crudely fabricated accusations I
beg for political shelter abroad both for me and my family, as well as
for the members of the organization.
I ask for financial support for the future restoration of the "Flamingo"
agency's structure and any other support for its members.
Angel Bliznachki
Address for correspondance:
Republic of Bulgaria, City of Sofia, postal code 1680, P.O.Box 63
Address for interview:
Erotic center "Flamingo", Republic of Bulgaria, City of Sofia, postal
code 1303, 208 Tzar Simeonov Street
Ivan Marinov
Alex Yordanov <zp...@ttacs.ttu.edu>
>The beraking of human rights and the sexual discrimination are a state
>policy, carried on by certain people and groupings. Feature films with
>homosexual element have been banished from the screen of the national
>television by order of the state attorney Tatarchev and with the active
>participation of the ex-director Granitski.
What's wrong with that? It's normal that homofilms are banned from the
national media in
Bulgaria. The national media are national, so they must show traditional
and national values.
Homosexuality is not a traditional or national value. The national media
should educate the
growing generations what's wrong and what's good, not to show them
abnormality, antisocilaity
and illness as acceptable values. I'm not a fan of neither Granitski or
Tatarchev, but I'm giving
my admiration and my full support to them in their fight against abnormal
propaganda on the
national media. If homosexuals want homo propaganda on tv, let them make
a private tv
channel, but in the national media there's no place for unnatural
propaganda. National media
are for propaganda of values that are considered normal by the majority
of the people.
--
---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---
max...@mbox.digsys.bg
mval...@sf.cit.bg
i...@ibm.net
---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
and separately, in each country, each government, each
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---
Alexander Yordanov
On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Alex Yordanov <zp...@ttacs.ttu.edu>
>
> >The beraking of human rights and the sexual discrimination are a state
> >policy, carried on by certain people and groupings. Feature films with
> >homosexual element have been banished from the screen of the national
> >television by order of the state attorney Tatarchev and with the active
> >participation of the ex-director Granitski.
>
> What's wrong with that? It's normal that homofilms are banned from the
> national media in
> Bulgaria. The national media are national, so they must show traditional
> and national values.
A country which traditional and national values are suppressing the
freedom of association and interfering with the private life of part of
its citizens will not go to far. It is obvious, BTW.
> Homosexuality is not a traditional or national value. The national media
> should educate the
> growing generations what's wrong and what's good, not to show them
> abnormality, antisocilaity
> and illness as acceptable values.
Supression and fascist methods are not Bulgarian national values either
( at least not yet ). Homosexuality is neither good nor bad. Just different.
There is no TV station in the civilized world which bans homosexuality .
As a first example, Bulgaria will be denied access to the civilized world
and left for the Islamic Trade Association, which shares Bulgaria's
anti-homosexual believes.
I'm not a fan of neither Granitski or > Tatarchev, but I'm giving
> my admiration and my full support to them in their fight against abnormal
> propaganda on the
> national media. If homosexuals want homo propaganda on tv, let them make
> a private tv
> channel, but in the national media there's no place for unnatural
> propaganda. National media
> are for propaganda of values that are considered normal by the majority
> of the people.
>
Did you open the second homepage and read the European Community Law
about the human rights of lesbians and gays in Europe?
Likewise, I will support the future decision of the European Community
*not* to accept Bulgaria as a full member of EC ( no matter how much
Bulgaria's economy is booming ;-))) ) until things like that do not
happen any more.
The majority of the people, as you said, cannot restrict the personal
freedom of any minority.
Alex
Alexander Yordanov
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
>
> This means that the "civilized" world doesn't deserve any admiration...
and...
> Not yet. I'll do it. But I have no real interest in this, as for me the
> human laws are nothing, when they contradict God's eternal laws.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and...
> it will be very good for Bulgaria to stay away from the EU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hope that only a minority of Bulgarians think like you do, bunny. Check
s.c.barometer on that matter. I think that you are loosing the battle.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> A country which traditional and national values are suppressing the
> freedom of association and interfering with the private life of part of
> its citizens will not go to far. It is obvious, BTW.
The freedom of association has nothing in common with propaganda on
the national media. Let homosexuals/bisexuals/etc. make their
associations, but they have no right to claim for publicity on national
media. There are dozens of other associations, which also don't have the
possibility to have free propaganda on national tv. Even if we accept
your logic that homosexaulity is not an illness (I consider it an illness
and nothing more), this doesn't mean that homosexuals have right to
access to national media.
> Supression and fascist methods are not Bulgarian national values either
> ( at least not yet ). Homosexuality is neither good nor bad. Just
> different.
Even if we accept your logic (I don't accept it) that homosexaulity is
neither good nor bad, just "different", this doesn't mean nothing. There
are dozens of "different" people who don't have access to national media
for free propaganda of their "differentness". Why this happens that
homosexauls always claim they are more than the avarage people? Why this
happens that homosexuals want dozens of special rights?
> There is no TV station in the civilized world which bans homosexuality.
This means that the "civilized" world doesn't deserve any admiration...
> As a first example, Bulgaria will be denied access to the civilized
> world
> and left for the Islamic Trade Association, which shares Bulgaria's
> anti-homosexual believes.
Yes, this is a big problem that liberals are controlling everything in
the "civilized" world. But I think that things will change.
> Did you open the second homepage and read the European Community Law
> about the human rights of lesbians and gays in Europe?
Not yet. I'll do it. But I have no real interest in this, as for me the
human laws are nothing, when they contradict God's eternal laws.
> Likewise, I will support the future decision of the European Community
> *not* to accept Bulgaria as a full member of EC ( no matter how much
> Bulgaria's economy is booming ;-))) ) until things like that do not
> happen any more.
I hope that the EU won't be the headquarter of militant liberalist
totalitarianism. But if this happens, then it will be very good for
Bulgaria to stay away from the EU.
> The majority of the people, as you said, cannot restrict the personal
> freedom of any minority.
Having free propaganda on national tv is not a personal freedom.
Homosexuals have full personal freedom in Bulgaria: any homosexual adult
has full right to make homosexual sex with any other homosexaul adult, if
both persons agree to make that. This is enough. Any other "right" would
be a violation.
Tatiana Dimitrova
No way man...
Ivan Marinov
karadjov wrote:
> Hey dedo pope, ama toia p't chisto go zgazi luka. Ti da ne iskash
> B'lgaria da se vrne pak k'm kakvoto beshe?
Smqtash li, che pred nas stoi izbor s dwe wyzmozhnosti: ili wryshtane kym
komunizma ili priemane na homosexualizym za normalna i tradicionalna
praktika? Towa mi prilicha na agitaciqta ot strana na wyrhushkata na SDS:
"Ako ne izberete Zhelju Zhelew (w segashniq wariant: Petyr Stoqnow) za
prezident, wie glasuwate za komunizym, Zhelju Zhelew (Petyr Stoqnow) =
demokraciq". Az smqtam, che ima i drugi wyzmozhnosti...
> Prvata haracteristika na edna
> demokratsia e svobodata na slovoto i na nachinete na izrasiavane.
> Svobodnia chovek moshe da kazhe kakvoto si iska, kakto si iska( stiga
> de e
> vprilichen vid), i kadeto si iska.
Nacionalnite medii ne trqbwa da dawat protiwoestestweni primeri na
podrastwashtoto pokolenie. Ne e swoboda "prawoto" da izwrashtawash
naselenieto na stranata. Ako nqkoj ima protiwoestestweni naklonnosti,
neka da go propowqdwa chrez chastni medii, finansirani ot sdruzheniq na
hora s protiwoesteswtweni stremezhi, no kak shte iskat prawo na bezplatna
propaganda po nacionalnite medii, koito se finansirat chrez danycite na
cqloto naselenie.
> S'shto taka , netsionalnati medii ne sa propagatori na natsionalnite
> "values" - za tova ima semestvo i uchilishte.
Koj spored teb trqbwa da ima reshawasht glas w opredelqneto na politikata
na nacioanlnite medii? Malcinstwoto ili mnozinstwoto? Ako malcinstwoto,
to az predlagam now wariant na Izbiratelniq zakon. Neka na sledwashtite
izbori da wlqzat w parlamenta samo tezi sili, koito sa nabrali PO-MALKO
ot 4 %. Ako dopusnem partiite s nad 4 % ot glasowete, shte se poluchi
"diktatura na mnozinstwoto nad malcinstwoto"... :-)
> Nasionalnite medii sa za
> rasprostraniavane vsgledite na vsichki hora v stranata, nezavisimo ot
> ubezhdniata im ili lichnite im sexualni otnoshenia.
Nqmam nishto protiw da bydat razpostranqwani liberalnite wyzgledi na
homosexualistite (te i sega se razpostranqwat, dazhe i prekaleno mnogo),
no neka da ne se razpostranqwa netradicionalno powedenie. Ti samiqt
kazwash, che towa e lichna rabota. Sled akto e lichna rabota, zashto
iskat propaganda za lichnite im raboti? Da ne bi nie, normalnite hora s
normalen sex, da iskame prez polowin chas da se pokazwat snosheniq po
ekrana?
---
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
>
> >
><admiration...
>
>
> > Not yet. I'll do it. But I have no real interest in this, as for me
>>the
> > human laws are nothing, when they contradict God's eternal laws.
>
> and...
>
> > it will be very good for Bulgaria to stay away from the EU.
>
> Hope that only a minority of Bulgarians think like you do, bunny. Check
> s.c.barometer on that matter. I think that you are loosing the battle.
>
> Alex
I'm checking regularly the s.c.b. barometer. And I see there that there
is a significant minority that agrees with me. (Believe or not, I didn't
answer there to my own questions!) You can never loose REALLY the battle,
when God's written word is your friend.
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> Che da ne bi da ne pokazvat hetero snosheniya po ekrana?
Ne iskam pak da zapochwam syshtata diskusiq, no filmi s heterosexualni
elementi ne draznqt nikogo, tyj kato heterosexualniqt sex e neshto
normalno i nerelevantno. Wsichkite hora zhelaqt sinowete im da stanat
myzhe, a pyk dyshterite da stanat zheni, a ne obratno. Pokazwane na filmi
s homosexualni elementi bi dowelo do izkriwqwane na cennostnata sistema
na podrsatwashtoto pokolenie.
Inache az sym i protiw normalnoto porno da byde pokazwano po nacionalnite
medii. (Naprimer uzhasno me qdoswat tiq taka narecheni anti-SPIN klipowe
po bylgarskata telewiziqta.) Nacionalnite medii ne trqbwa da zadowolqwat
chastichni interesi na drebni malcinstwa. A gledaneto na porno ne e
obshtonacionalen interes. Ima stotici nachini da se gleda porno:
heterosexualno, homosexualno, smeseno, zhiwotonsko-choweshko, detsko, i
t. n. Az lichno hwashtam edin takyw spytnikow kanal pri men po kabela (az
sym w Ljulin, w momenta), kojto predawa wseki den ot 00:00 do 05:00.
Kojto iska - da gleda, no nikoj nqma prawo da prinuzhdawa
obshtonacionalnite medii, finsnsirani ot cqloto naselenie, da pokazwat
otwratitelni, nezdrawoslowni i nemoralni neshta.
> Ako
> priemem, che 10 %
naj-mnogo 2-3 %, spored men...
> ot naselenieto na stranata sa gay, znachi nacionalnata
> TV tryabva da pokazva 10 % filmi s gay element - ako iskat da gi
> pokazvat
> v 2 :00 prez nosta, no da gi pokazvat.
Towa ne e torta, koqto se rezhe na parcheta. Ne mozhe taka! Shte byde
dosta smeshno: ot 16 do 23 - propaganda na heterosexaulizym, posle
polowin chas sadizym, 15 minuti sex na maloletni, 1 chas homosexualen
sex, i oshte polowin chas zheni s nemski owcharki... :-) Nacionalnite
medii trqbwa da imat edinna koncepciq, syobrazena s tradiciite,
obicahite, obshtoprietiq moral, i t. n.
> Da vzemem polulyarnoto v USA show "Northern exposure" po NBC - ne e
> homo
> porno film, nito puk ima snosheniya. Prosto e show s gay element. V
> Bulgaria sa zabranili da se dava, zastoto edin ot harakterite e gay.
Ima mqsto za homoelementi. Naprimer kinata. Ili chastni kanali. Ili
wideoklubowe.
Inache ima i takiwa homoelementi, koito ne draznqt nikogo - naprimer w
humoristichni filmi ili pyk w filmi sys socialna tematika. Obache
homoelementi, pokazwashti homosexualizma kato neshto normalno i
polozhitelno e napylno nedopustimo.
Alexander Yordanov
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Alexander Yordanov wrote:
>
> > Che da ne bi da ne pokazvat hetero snosheniya po ekrana?
>
> Ne iskam pak da zapochwam syshtata diskusiq, no filmi s heterosexualni
> elementi ne draznqt nikogo, tyj kato heterosexualniqt sex e neshto
> normalno i nerelevantno. Wsichkite hora zhelaqt sinowete im da stanat
> myzhe, a pyk dyshterite da stanat zheni, a ne obratno. Pokazwane na filmi
> s homosexualni elementi bi dowelo do izkriwqwane na cennostnata sistema
> na podrsatwashtoto pokolenie.
I az ne iskam da zapochvam sustata diskusiya, no za posledno iskam da ti
poschertaya, che ako na horata sinovete im ili dusterite im sa genetichno
predrazpolozheni da budat gay, nepokazvaneto na podobni filmi edva li ste
gi napravi 100% heterosexualni. Filmi s gay elemnt se pokazvat ne s cel
da se propagandira homosexuality, a da se propagandira tolerantnost kum
inakomislestite i inakodeistvuvastite.
I oste edin moment - gayte sa si muzhe i lezbiikite sa si zheni. Vruzka
mezhdu pol i seksualna orientaciya ne sustestvuva.
> Inache az sym i protiw normalnoto porno da byde pokazwano po nacionalnite
> medii. (Naprimer uzhasno me qdoswat tiq taka narecheni anti-SPIN klipowe
> po bylgarskata telewiziqta.) Nacionalnite medii ne trqbwa da zadowolqwat
> chastichni interesi na drebni malcinstwa. A gledaneto na porno ne e
> obshtonacionalen interes. Ima stotici nachini da se gleda porno:
> heterosexualno, homosexualno, smeseno, zhiwotonsko-choweshko, detsko, i
> t. n. Az lichno hwashtam edin takyw spytnikow kanal pri men po kabela (az
> sym w Ljulin, w momenta), kojto predawa wseki den ot 00:00 do 05:00.
> Kojto iska - da gleda, no nikoj nqma prawo da prinuzhdawa
> obshtonacionalnite medii, finsnsirani ot cqloto naselenie, da pokazwat
> otwratitelni, nezdrawoslowni i nemoralni neshta.
Nikoi ne kazva, che tryabva da se pokazva porno. Pone po tozi vupros sme
edinodushni.
>
> > Ako
> > priemem, che 10 %
>
> naj-mnogo 2-3 %, spored men...
i okolo 10 % spored mene,
> > ot naselenieto na stranata sa gay, znachi nacionalnata
> > TV tryabva da pokazva 10 % filmi s gay element - ako iskat da gi
> > pokazvat
> > v 2 :00 prez nosta, no da gi pokazvat.
>
> Towa ne e torta, koqto se rezhe na parcheta. Ne mozhe taka! Shte byde
> dosta smeshno: ot 16 do 23 - propaganda na heterosexaulizym, posle
> polowin chas sadizym, 15 minuti sex na maloletni, 1 chas homosexualen
> sex, i oshte polowin chas zheni s nemski owcharki... :-) Nacionalnite
> medii trqbwa da imat edinna koncepciq, syobrazena s tradiciite,
> obicahite, obshtoprietiq moral, i t. n.
Nyama absolyutno nikakva vruzka mezhdu sexualnostta i obichaite. Dai sega
da kazhem - bulgarskiyat obichai e cherna kosa i kafevi ochi, i vsichki
rusi i sineoki da gi iztrebeme... Nito puk ima vruzka mezhdu sexualnost i
moral. Kakto heterosexualnite, taka i homosexualnite i bisexualnite hora
mogat da budat moralni ili nemoralni.
>
> > Da vzemem polulyarnoto v USA show "Northern exposure" po NBC - ne e
> > homo
> > porno film, nito puk ima snosheniya. Prosto e show s gay element. V
> > Bulgaria sa zabranili da se dava, zastoto edin ot harakterite e gay.
>
> Ima mqsto za homoelementi. Naprimer kinata. Ili chastni kanali. Ili
> wideoklubowe.
Che stom mozhe v kinata, zasto ne po televiziyata?
>
> Inache ima i takiwa homoelementi, koito ne draznqt nikogo - naprimer w
> humoristichni filmi ili pyk w filmi sys socialna tematika. Obache
> homoelementi, pokazwashti homosexualizma kato neshto normalno i
> polozhitelno e napylno nedopustimo.
Napulno e nedopustimo i da se pokazva, che homosexualizmut e nesto
nenormalno ili otricatelno - i tova e tochno tova, koetop mass mediite v
Bulgaria pravyat. Prosto e razlichno - sustestvuva, ima go, ne
zastrashava nikogo. I tova e message-ut, koito povecheto filmi s gay
element nosyat.
Koito si e homo, ste si bude homo, nezavisimo dali mu kazvash che e
otricatelno ili ne. Koito e 100% hetero, pak ste si e 100% hetero, dori i
da mu kazhesh, che homosexut e nai-hubavoto nesto v sveta. Koito si e bi, ste
si bude bi.
Mezhdu drugoto, televisiata e reshila da ne pokazva dori i filmi sus
socialna tematika.
Alex
Alexander Yordanov
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> karadjov wrote:
>
> > Hey dedo pope, ama toia p't chisto go zgazi luka. Ti da ne iskash
> > B'lgaria da se vrne pak k'm kakvoto beshe?
>
> Smqtash li, che pred nas stoi izbor s dwe wyzmozhnosti: ili wryshtane kym
> komunizma ili priemane na homosexualizym za normalna i tradicionalna
> praktika? Towa mi prilicha na agitaciqta ot strana na wyrhushkata na SDS:
Bulgaria e na krustoput - tova e yasno. Ili ste poeme putya kum Evropa,
ili kum Blizkiya iztok. I tova ne si lichi veche samo ot facta, che
policiyata e zapochnala da presledva gayte. I da izgonyat vsichki gay ot
Bulgaria, pak nyama da im cufne ikonomikata, pak ste si nameryat nyakogo
drugigo da podgonyat, i t.n. dokato ne ostane nikoi tam. Prosto pri
podobni situacii socialno slabite stradat nai-mnogo, tova e.
Zhalko, che bulgarskoto pravitelstvo tolkova mnogo kryaka po sveta kak
bili spasili evreite na vremeto. Osraha se. Dip che veche nyama evrei v
Bulgaria, a to che i tyah styaha da gonyat, to e yasno. Mezhdu drugoto, ima tam
proyavi i na antisemitizum. Yasno e nakude vurvyat nestata.
Alex
Alexander Yordanov
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> no neka da ne se razpostranqwa netradicionalno powedenie. Ti samiqt
> kazwash, che towa e lichna rabota. Sled akto e lichna rabota, zashto
> iskat propaganda za lichnite im raboti? Da ne bi nie, normalnite hora s
> normalen sex, da iskame prez polowin chas da se pokazwat snosheniq po
> ekrana?
Che da ne bi da ne pokazvat hetero snosheniya po ekrana? I nikoi ne
govori za pokazvane na snosheniya, a za izrazyavane na vuzgledi i
pokazvane na filmi s gay element - ne stava duma za porno filmi. Ako
priemem, che 10 % ot naselenieto na stranata sa gay, znachi nacionalnata
TV tryabva da pokazva 10 % filmi s gay element - ako iskat da gi pokazvat
v 2 :00 prez nosta, no da gi pokazvat.
Da vzemem polulyarnoto v USA show "Northern exposure" po NBC - ne e homo
porno film, nito puk ima snosheniya. Prosto e show s gay element. V
Bulgaria sa zabranili da se dava, zastoto edin ot harakterite e gay. Aman
ot idioti!
Alex
karadjov
: >The beraking of human rights and the sexual discrimination are a state
: >policy, carried on by certain people and groupings. Feature films with
: >homosexual element have been banished from the screen of the national
: >television by order of the state attorney Tatarchev and with the active
: >participation of the ex-director Granitski.
: What's wrong with that? It's normal that homofilms are banned from the
: national media in
: Bulgaria. The national media are national, so they must show traditional
: and national values.
Hey dedo pope, ama toia p't chisto go zgazi luka. Ti da ne iskash
B'lgaria da se vrne pak k'm kakvoto beshe? Prvata haracteristika na edna
demokratsia e svobodata na slovoto i na nachinete na izrasiavane.
Svobodnia chovek moshe da kazhe kakvoto si iska, kakto si iska( stiga de e
vprilichen vid), i kadeto si iska.
S'shto taka , netsionalnati medii ne sa propagatori na natsionalnite
"values" - za tova ima semestvo i uchilishte. Nasionalnite medii sa za
rasprostraniavane vsgledite na vsichki hora v stranata, nezavisimo ot
ubezhdniata im ili lichnite im sexualni otnoshenia.
Georgi Karadjov
: Homosexuality is not a traditional or national value. The national media
: should educate the
: growing generations what's wrong and what's good, not to show them
: abnormality, antisocilaity
: and illness as acceptable values. I'm not a fan of neither Granitski or
: Tatarchev, but I'm giving
: my admiration and my full support to them in their fight against abnormal
: propaganda on the
: national media. If homosexuals want homo propaganda on tv, let them make
: a private tv
: channel, but in the national media there's no place for unnatural
: propaganda. National media
: are for propaganda of values that are considered normal by the majority
: of the people.
: --
: ---
: Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
: ---
: max...@mbox.digsys.bg
: mval...@sf.cit.bg
: i...@ibm.net
: ---
: "The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
: and separately, in each country, each government, each
: political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
: life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
: without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
: society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
: of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
: ---
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Alexander Yordanov
On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Praw si w towa. No wse pak tezi filmi nqma da im dadat wyzmozhnost da
> razberat koe e
> normalnoto i koe ne e. Inache, ako nikoj ne im kazhe, te otkyde shte
> uznaqt, che ednoto
> powedenie e normalno i drugoto e nenormalno. Oswen towa, pokazwaneto na
Vseki si e normalen za sebe si. Horata ne sa izlyati po kalup. Otkude
nakude ti ste nachertavash liniyata?
> neshto
> neestestweno kato neshto napylno normalno bi moglo do dowede do nezdraw
> interes ot srana na
> deca s inache genetichno prawilno powedenie kym "probwane" na neestweni i
> neprisyshti za tqh
> neshta. Mozhe bi se izrazih dosta obyrkano, no sigurno si me razbral
> kakwo iskah da kazha.
Veche e dokazano, che 70 % ot vsichki deca opitvat homosexual activities
po vreme na puberteta. Dori i v durzhavi, kudeto puk dumata "gay" ne se
spomenava izobsto. No tezi, kopito sa si 100 % heterosexualni, ne gi
povtaryat, zastoto razbirat, che ne im haresva. To e tolkova prosto.
> >
>Filmi s gay elemnt se pokazvat ne s cel
> >da se propagandira homosexuality, a da se propagandira tolerantnost kum
> >inakomislestite i inakodeistvuvastite.
>
> Mislq, che ne e taka. Toleratntnostta se nauchawa ne chrez takiwa filmi,
> a chrez etichno i
> moralno wyzpitanie.
Kakva tolerantnost mozhesh da vuzpitash ako kazvash che dadeno yavlenie e
nenormalno? Tuk si protivorechish.
Dete s takowa etichno wyzpitanie nikoga ne bi
> trygnalo da presledwa
> homosexualistite, ili hora bolni ot drugu zabolqwaniq. Az smqtam, che
> homosexualnite
> propagandni syjuzi mnogo greshat, che ne priemat, che homosexualizmyt e
> bolest, zashtoto ako
> go priemaha towa, horata shtqha da useshtat kym tqh systradanie, kato kym
> bolni. A sega -
Kak ste priemat, kogato samo ti i oste edin dvama vse oste smytate, che
homosexuality e bolest - vizh s.c.barometer po vuprosa. A be, sto ne
vzemesh da se osuznaesh?
> poradi agresiwnata homo-propaganda, iskashta wse poweche i poweche -
> horata samo stawat
> loshi i zlobni.
Ne se stava losh ili zloben samo zastoto chuvash nechii apeli za
toilerantnost. Horata se razhdat loshi i zlobni. Az lichno smyatam, che
na povecheto hora ne im puka koi s kogo spi, samo tursyat povod da se
zayazhdat i da nagrubyavat drugite - tova e vsichko.
Az kato hristiqnin nikoga ne bih trygnal da presledwam
> edin homosexualist, zaradi
> towa, che toj e homosexualist, tyj kato spored men e nedostojno da
> presledwash chowek zaradi
> neshto, za koeto ne e winowen. No ponqkoga, kato cheta absurdni
> homo-iskaniq, pochwam da
> se qdoswam. Dazhe i tuk wednyzh se bqh qdosal, i sym napisal togawa, che
> smyrtnata prisyda e
> podhodqshta mqrka w nqkoi sluchai na homosexualizym...
Ami togava tryabva da spresh da predizvikvash podobni izkazvaniya. Priemi
fakta, che 10 % ot horata okolo teb sa takiva ( kolkoto i da ne ti
haresva tazi cifra ), i spri da govorish po vuprosa, zastoto samo gi
draznish i eskalirash konfrontaciyata. Razberi, che vseki se gordee s
tova, koeto e, i che ti nyamash pravo da potupkvash nikogo. Vseki mozhe
mnogo lesno da te potupche i tebe. Siguren sum, che ste se nameri za
kakvo. Zasto tryabva samo da se tupchem?
> >I oste edin moment - gayte sa si muzhe i lezbiikite sa si zheni. Vruzka
> >mezhdu pol i seksualna orientaciya ne sustestvuva.
>
> Spored men "sexualnata orientaciq" e imeno naj-wazhniqt polow beleg.
Mnogo interesno! A spored men nai-vazhniyat polov beleg e nalichito na XX
ili XY dvoiki hromozomi.
> >Nyama absolyutno nikakva vruzka mezhdu sexualnostta i obichaite. Dai sega
> >da kazhem - bulgarskiyat obichai e cherna kosa i kafevi ochi, i vsichki
> >rusi i sineoki da gi iztrebeme...
>
> Kakwa e kosata i kakwi sa ochite sa rawnopostaweni alternatiwi za men. No
> pri sexualnostta
> nqma spored men rawnopostaweni alternatiwi, a ima edin edinstwen wid
> sexualnost, a wsichko
> ostanalo e dewiantno powedenie. (Wizh samo kolko taktichno se opitah da
> se izrazq...)
Normalno i deviatno sa kategorii, koito opredelyash ti ot tvoyata gledna
tochka. Ot druga gledna tochka, tvoeto povedenie na religiozen fanatik e
ne po-malko deviantno. Drugi puk sa deviantni, zastoto obichat samo heavy
metal, treti pushat, chetvurti puk se cheshat neprekusnato po glavata i
t.n. Vseki e s nesto devianten.
>
> >Nito puk ima vruzka mezhdu sexualnost i
> >moral. Kakto heterosexualnite, taka i homosexualnite i bisexualnite hora
> >mogat da budat moralni ili nemoralni.
>
> Naistina mogat. No wse pak az chetoh nqkyde, che pri homosexualistite
> naprimer smqnata na
> partnjori se broi za neshto sywsem estestweno i normalno, w mnogo
> po-golqma stepen,
> otkolkoto pri heterosexualnite hora.
Ne sum suvsem siguren, no ima dve logichni obyasneniya za tova.
1) Muzhete vinagi se vpuskat po-lesno v sexualni kontakti. Ako
vsichki zheni
lyagaha tolkova lesno, sigurno i hetero sveta steshe da e tolkova
promiscuous.
2) Straight horata mogat da si imat semeistvo i da zhiveyat zakonno s
edin partnyor, taka che da nyama nuzhda da si tursyat nov vsyaka vecher.
Gay-te ne mogat, a kogato iskat da im se razreshat marriages, taka che i
te da budat monogamni, sustata tazi curkva, koyato gi obvinyava v
poligamiya, ne im dava????!
> mnogo drugi takiwa spisaniq. Towa oznachawa, che zdrawoto obshestwo
> uprazhnqwa kontrol
> wyrhu etichnite normi.
Che kakvo neetichno ima v homosexualnostta? Sofia e pulna s pornografski
spisaniya, koito se prodavat po ulicite.
>
> Az smqtam, che imeno tozi message e napylno neprawilen. Ime tozi message
> e towa, koeto
> drazni powecheto hristiqni. Za nas towa ne e "razlichie", a "defekt". I
> smqtame za dylboko
> nemoralna tezata, che towa e "razlichie".
Ami za vas, hrisiyanite, i to suvsem ne vsichki, tova mozhe da e defect,
no za ostanalata chast ne e defect, a razlichie. Draznete se kolkoto si
iskate, molya!
>
> >Koito si e homo, ste si bude homo, nezavisimo dali mu kazvash che e
> >otricatelno ili ne.
>
> Taka e, chowekyt ne e winowen, che genetichniqt mu kod e s greshka.
Nichii genetichen kod ne e perfecten. Ima mnogo po-loshi nesta - geni za
rak, i mnogo, mnogo loshi zabolyavaniya.
Osven tova, ne e suvsem yasno dokolko rolyata na tezi geni ( te sa
nyakolko ) e reshavasta pri opredelyane na sexual behaviour. Okazva se,
che mnogo hora gi imat, i vupreki tova sa absolyutno straight. Vsyaka
teoriya v genetikata e predposledna.
A i mnogo hora smyatat, che homosexual tendencies e samo stranichen efect
na tazi grupa geni. Zasto da se burkame s rabotata na prirodata? Stom tya
suzdava gay i te ne stradat ot tova ( a ot otnoshenieto na takiva kato
tebe ), neka da se opitvame da se uvazhavame vsichki hora takiva, kakvito
sa.
Alex
Dimitar Bojantchev
In article <31F8D4...@mbox.digsys.bg>,
Ivan Marinov <max...@mbox.digsys.bg> wrote:
>Alexander Yordanov wrote:
>
>> Bulgaria e na krustoput - tova e yasno. Ili ste poeme putya kum Evropa,
>> ili kum Blizkiya iztok. I tova ne si lichi veche samo ot facta, che
>> policiyata e zapochnala da presledva gayte.
>
>ne e nito religiozno, nito etnichesko, nito ezikowo, ne e pokazatel za
>absoljutno nishto. Na krystopyt sme w mnogo neshta, no ne i w towa.
-------------------
Naprotiv, tochno tova e edin mnogo principen pokazatel. Kolkoto
po-malko e malcinstvoto, tolkova po-golyam pokazatel e otnoshenieto
kum nego... Ne vzemam otnoshenie po bezkrainite drugi sporove, no
specialno po tazi tochka bih iskal da podchertaya, che edna ot
osnovnite koncepcii na demokraciyata e, che vseki e v nyakakvo
malcinstvo i ako vsichki priemem tozi ogranichavasht, majoritaren
mantalitet za shtyalo i za neshtyalo, to togava shte stigneme do pod
krivata krusha. No v sushtoto vreme, az ne sum siguren, che
demokraciya e tova ot koeto Bg se nujdae v momenta... :-)
Specialno za gayovete - te tryabva da budat podchineni na sushtite
zakoni, kakto i drugite. Yavno e, che publichniya sex ne e razreshen
nezavisimo ot negovata orientaciya. Tova che te se asociirat pomejdu
si ne tryabva da bude problem na nikogo. Vij, ako zapochnat da stavat
nahalni v ulichnite toaletni, tova veche e neshto drugo, tui kato
nezavisimo ot orientaciyata tova ne e myasto za horata da budat
pritesnyavani... :-)
Pravoto da budesh ostaven na mira ne e "specialno" pravo Iwane.
Pravoto da spisvash vestnik sushto ne e takova. Zatova si ima
"chastni" i "nacionalni" medii. Nacionalnite medii tryabva da slujat
na obshtonacionalnoto dokato chastnite medii na vseki edin koito se
interesuva da gi chete i da si plashta za tyah... No puk nai-golyamata
napast tuk sa hristiyanite deto visyat po ulicite i nahalstvat da me
ubejdavat v priemaneto na Hrista spored nyakakvi si svoi normi... Dali
sa geyove ili hristiyani, ne tryabva da pritesnyavat publikata --
inache na koi gospod i na koi chlen se molyat v lichniya si jivot,
tova ne me interesuva...
Mitko
--
===============================================================================
Dimitar Bojantchev dim...@pontix.com or dim...@netcom.com
Pontix Consulting, Inc. http://www.pontix.com/
Personal Info http://www.pontix.com/dimitar
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> Bulgaria e na krustoput - tova e yasno. Ili ste poeme putya kum Evropa,
> ili kum Blizkiya iztok. I tova ne si lichi veche samo ot facta, che
> policiyata e zapochnala da presledva gayte.
Towa e smeshno. Otnoshenieto kym edno neznachitelno "malcinstwo", koeto
ne e nito religiozno, nito etnichesko, nito ezikowo, ne e pokazatel za
absoljutno nishto. Na krystopyt sme w mnogo neshta, no ne i w towa.
> I da izgonyat vsichki gay ot
> Bulgaria, pak nyama da im cufne ikonomikata, pak ste si nameryat >
> nyakogo
> drugigo da podgonyat, i t.n. dokato ne ostane nikoi tam.
Tiq homosexualisti ot "Flamingo" gi goneha poradi towa, che te
narushawaha zakona. Maj se seshtam za edin reportazh po telewiziqta.
Obwinenieto beshe za nezakonna tyrgowiq s piratski kaseti, nelegalno
zapisno studio, detsko porno, i t. n., horata ne sa bili presladwani,
zaradi towa, che sa homosexualisti. Ot wreme na wreme policiqta w
Bylgariq se opitwa da se bori
s narushitelite na awtorski prawa - zashto samo homosexualistite da sa
izkljuchneie? W reportazha
beshe spomenato, che tiq flamingowci sa wyrteli biznes s wsqkakwo porno,
ne samo s
homosexualno.
> Prosto pri
> podobni situacii socialno slabite stradat nai-mnogo, tova e.
Maj homosexualistite, deto plashtat po $ 80-100 (poweche ot srednata
mesechna zaplata w Bylgariq) na chas za homo-"prostitutki" ne sa socialno
slabi. W Bylgariq 99.5 % ot chestnite hora ne mogat da si pozwolqt
nikakwi prostitutki, nito homosexualni, nito heterosexualni. Towa sa
prosto nqkakwi borci, deto weche ne znaqt za kakwo da harchat ograbenite
pari, weche sa opitali s zhiwotni, deca, stotici zheni, sega pochwat s
myzhe da opitat kak e.
> Zhalko, che bulgarskoto pravitelstvo tolkova mnogo kryaka po sveta kak
> bili spasili evreite na vremeto. Osraha se.
1. Nqma nikakwa wryzka mezhdu dwete neshta.
2. Zashto da ne "krqka"? Nali Bylgariq e edna ot obshto dwete strani w
cqla Ewropi, nepozwolila "krajnoto reshenie". Zashto Bylgariq da ne se
gordee s plozhitelnite
fakti w istoriqta si? Mnogo interesna logika - samo izwrateni tipowe i
nenormalnici imat prawo da
"krqkat"...??? Ako nqkoj drug posmee da "krqka", znachi "se e osral"...
> Dip che veche nyama evrei v
> Bulgaria, a to che i tyah styaha da gonyat, to e yasno.
Nqma weche ewrei? Gluposti. Naj-malko sa okolo 9-10 hilqdi.
> Mezhdu drugoto, ima tam
> proyavi i na antisemitizum. Yasno e nakude vurvyat nestata.
Chuwash li se kakwi smeshni raboti goworish? I w SASHT i Kanada i w cqla
Zapadna i Iztochna Ewropa ima proqwi na antisemitizym, dazhe i
mnogo poweche ot Bylgariq. Sledwashtiqt US prezident shte e Hitler -
weche wsichko e predresheno :-) Naprimer antisemitskite Internet-resursi
sa naj-mnogo w Kanada, a ne w Bylgariq, a e dobre izwestno, che powecheto
antisemiti sa prijuteni w Kanada i SASHT. Az lichno znam ne edna
amerikanska taka narechena "hristiqnska" cyrkwa, propowqdwashta
"antisemitizym". W Bylgariq takawa cyrkwa nqma. Bylgariq ima pochti pylen
imunitet sreshtu
antisemitizma - towa e rqdko qwlenie w Ewropa.
Alexander Yordanov
On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Dimitre Stoianov wrote:
> Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>
> >Did you open the second homepage and read the European Community Law
> >about the human rights of lesbians and gays in Europe?
>
> Kqde e tazi second homepage? Az iskam da procheta about human rights
> of lesbian and gays.
>
> Siya
>
http://abacus.oxy.edu/qrd/world/europe/ec/ECGU-equal.rights-03.29.95
Alex
Chugun2
Bulgaria na pricechkata!!?? XA. Durzhavnata sigurnost kontrolira
dvizhenieto vuv vsyaka posoka. Shto za pricechkata e? Mestoto kudeto
tryabva da budat mnogo katastrofi. Neka komunistite i tyeknite lakei kato
Ivan Marinov se bluskat i puknat. KAKBOTO 3A DA HE DOUDAT V USA. KOMYHUCTU
- MAXHETE CE OT TYKA
Alexander Yordanov
On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Alexander Yordanov wrote:
>
> > Bulgaria e na krustoput - tova e yasno. Ili ste poeme putya kum Evropa,
> > ili kum Blizkiya iztok. I tova ne si lichi veche samo ot facta, che
> > policiyata e zapochnala da presledva gayte.
>
> Towa e smeshno. Otnoshenieto kym edno neznachitelno "malcinstwo", koeto
> ne e nito religiozno, nito etnichesko, nito ezikowo, ne e pokazatel za
> absoljutno nishto. Na krystopyt sme w mnogo neshta, no ne i w towa.
10 % izobsto ne e neznachitelno. Osven tova, dazhe i 0.00001 % da bayha,
pak tryabvashe da budat tretirani kato hora i da imat ravni prava kato
vsichki ostanali.
> Tiq homosexualisti ot "Flamingo" gi goneha poradi towa, che te
> narushawaha zakona. Maj se seshtam za edin reportazh po telewiziqta.
> Obwinenieto beshe za nezakonna tyrgowiq s piratski kaseti, nelegalno
> zapisno studio, detsko porno, i t. n., horata ne sa bili presladwani,
> zaradi towa, che sa homosexualisti. Ot wreme na wreme policiqta w
Tui, tui, narushavali zakona. TO, povod vinagi mozhe da se nameri - pitai
bivshite komunisti, koito sa i sega navlast, te byaha spec po namirane na
povodi. Zasto ne zapochnaha s aresti na heterosexual zapisno studio,
(mnogo poveche na broi) kato sa tolkova zagrizheni za zakona...
Da ne govorim puk samata bulgarska policiya kolko zakoni e narushavala.
A i dazhe da sa narushavali zakona, zasto policiata nahluva, arestuva
vsichki, konfiskuva spisuka s chlenovete na organizaciyata, a na drugiya
den zapochva pogromi nad podobni organizacii v stranata. Mnogo poznata
istoriya, mnogo...
Na star kratstavichar krasdtavici ste prodavat!
>
Bylgariq se opitwa da se bori
> s narushitelite na awtorski prawa - zashto samo homosexualistite da sa
> izkljuchneie? W reportazha
Mnogo hubav vupros zadavash. Zasto presledvat samo homosexualistite, a
vseki drug si pravi kakvoto iska?
> Maj homosexualistite, deto plashtat po $ 80-100 (poweche ot srednata
> mesechna zaplata w Bylgariq) na chas za homo-"prostitutki" ne sa socialno
> slabi. W Bylgariq 99.5 % ot chestnite hora ne mogat da si pozwolqt
> nikakwi prostitutki, nito homosexualni, nito heterosexualni. Towa sa
> prosto nqkakwi borci, deto weche ne znaqt za kakwo da harchat ograbenite
> pari, weche sa opitali s zhiwotni, deca, stotici zheni, sega pochwat s
> myzhe da opitat kak e.
Ima i heterosexualisti, koito plastat i po poveche na straight
prostitutki. Dezi deto plastat po 100 $ na chas - ti za tyah ne beri
grizha, nikoi nyama da gi arestuva :-)) - znaesh zasto - styaha da
butnata po edna stotachka ( dolarova de, estesveno ) na policaite i na
sledovatelya, i rabotata steshe da se uredi mirno i tiho.
>
> > Zhalko, che bulgarskoto pravitelstvo tolkova mnogo kryaka po sveta kak
> > bili spasili evreite na vremeto. Osraha se.
>
> 1. Nqma nikakwa wryzka mezhdu dwete neshta.
Ima, ima. Idi vuv The Holocaust Museum krai Washington D.C. i ste ya
vidish vruzkata kakva e. Da ne govorim, che evreiskite i gay organizacii
vinagi sa bili v nai-priyatelski otnosheniya i vzaimno sa se poddurzhali.
> 2. Zashto da ne "krqka"? Nali Bylgariq e edna ot obshto dwete strani w
> cqla Ewropi, nepozwolila "krajnoto reshenie". Zashto Bylgariq da ne se
> gordee s plozhitelnite
> fakti w istoriqta si? Mnogo interesna logika - samo izwrateni tipowe i
> nenormalnici imat prawo da
> "krqkat"...??? Ako nqkoj drug posmee da "krqka", znachi "se e osral"...
Ami ako ne mozhesh da ya shvanesh logikata, tolkova po-zle za teb. Bavno
zagryavash.
> > Dip che veche nyama evrei v
> > Bulgaria, a to che i tyah styaha da gonyat, to e yasno.
>
> Nqma weche ewrei? Gluposti. Naj-malko sa okolo 9-10 hilqdi.
Ami te veche palyat sinagogi, dokolkoto znam.
>
> > Mezhdu drugoto, ima tam
> > proyavi i na antisemitizum. Yasno e nakude vurvyat nestata.
>
> Chuwash li se kakwi smeshni raboti goworish? I w SASHT i Kanada i w cqla
> Zapadna i Iztochna Ewropa ima proqwi na antisemitizym, dazhe i
> mnogo poweche ot Bylgariq. Sledwashtiqt US prezident shte e Hitler -
> weche wsichko e predresheno :-) Naprimer antisemitskite Internet-resursi
> sa naj-mnogo w Kanada, a ne w Bylgariq, a e dobre izwestno, che powecheto
> antisemiti sa prijuteni w Kanada i SASHT. Az lichno znam ne edna
> amerikanska taka narechena "hristiqnska" cyrkwa, propowqdwashta
> "antisemitizym". W Bylgariq takawa cyrkwa nqma. Bylgariq ima pochti pylen
> imunitet sreshtu
> antisemitizma - towa e rqdko qwlenie w Ewropa.
Ne govori taka. Nestata se promenyat. Vazhno e ne segashnoto sustoyanie,
a tendenciyata.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
> >Nqmam nishto protiw da bydat razpostranqwani liberalnite wyzgledi na
> >homosexualistite (te i sega se razpostranqwat, dazhe i prekaleno
> >mnogo),
> >no neka da ne se razpostranqwa netradicionalno powedenie. Ti samiqt
> >kazwash, che towa e lichna rabota. Sled akto e lichna rabota, zashto
> >iskat propaganda za lichnite im raboti? Da ne bi nie, normalnite hora
> >s
> >normalen sex, da iskame prez polowin chas da se pokazwat snosheniq po
> >ekrana?
>
> Kqde se razpostraniavat tezi vqzgledi v Bqlgaria li?
> A society is judged by how it treats its weakest members-gays, women,
> children, animals...
Tezi wyzgledi se razpostrqnawat nawsqkyde. No az mislq, che ne wsichkite
liberali sa chak tolkowa krajni, che da zashtitawat homosexulaistite. Ima
i nqkoi sred tqh, opitawshti se pone chastichno da zashtitawat ne
homosexualizma, a normalniq red na neshtata.
Homosexualisti sa "weakest"??? Ne mi gowori takiwa smeshni neshta!
Homosexualistite ne sa
krotki i plahi bezdomni kuchenca, taka che srawnenieto ti e neumestno. Az
lichno sym golqm
zashtitnik na wsqkakwi zhiwotinski widowe. Imam dwa akwariuma s
naj-razlichni ribi, raci,
ohljuwi, t. n. Imam i kotka (biwsha bezdomna), kazwa se 'Macushi Akashi',
krystena e w chest
na edin ot zamestnik-predsedatelite na OON. Imam plan da wzema i edno
kuchence sled 1-2
meseca. No ne wizhdam nishto obshto mezhdu zhiwotnite i homosexualistite,
tyj kato
homosexualistite ne sa nito bezmozychni, nito bezzashtitni.
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>I az ne iskam da zapochvam sustata diskusiya, no za posledno iskam da ti
>poschertaya, che ako na horata sinovete im ili dusterite im sa genetichno
>predrazpolozheni da budat gay, nepokazvaneto na podobni filmi edva li ste
>gi napravi 100% heterosexualni.
Praw si w towa. No wse pak tezi filmi nqma da im dadat wyzmozhnost da
razberat koe e
normalnoto i koe ne e. Inache, ako nikoj ne im kazhe, te otkyde shte
uznaqt, che ednoto
powedenie e normalno i drugoto e nenormalno. Oswen towa, pokazwaneto na
neshto
neestestweno kato neshto napylno normalno bi moglo do dowede do nezdraw
interes ot srana na
deca s inache genetichno prawilno powedenie kym "probwane" na neestweni i
neprisyshti za tqh
neshta. Mozhe bi se izrazih dosta obyrkano, no sigurno si me razbral
kakwo iskah da kazha.
>Filmi s gay elemnt se pokazvat ne s cel
>da se propagandira homosexuality, a da se propagandira tolerantnost kum
>inakomislestite i inakodeistvuvastite.
Mislq, che ne e taka. Toleratntnostta se nauchawa ne chrez takiwa filmi,
a chrez etichno i
moralno wyzpitanie. Dete s takowa etichno wyzpitanie nikoga ne bi
trygnalo da presledwa
homosexualistite, ili hora bolni ot drugu zabolqwaniq. Az smqtam, che
homosexualnite
propagandni syjuzi mnogo greshat, che ne priemat, che homosexualizmyt e
bolest, zashtoto ako
go priemaha towa, horata shtqha da useshtat kym tqh systradanie, kato kym
bolni. A sega -
poradi agresiwnata homo-propaganda, iskashta wse poweche i poweche -
horata samo stawat
loshi i zlobni. Az kato hristiqnin nikoga ne bih trygnal da presledwam
edin homosexualist, zaradi
towa, che toj e homosexualist, tyj kato spored men e nedostojno da
presledwash chowek zaradi
neshto, za koeto ne e winowen. No ponqkoga, kato cheta absurdni
homo-iskaniq, pochwam da
se qdoswam. Dazhe i tuk wednyzh se bqh qdosal, i sym napisal togawa, che
smyrtnata prisyda e
podhodqshta mqrka w nqkoi sluchai na homosexualizym...
>I oste edin moment - gayte sa si muzhe i lezbiikite sa si zheni. Vruzka
>mezhdu pol i seksualna orientaciya ne sustestvuva.
Spored men "sexualnata orientaciq" e imeno naj-wazhniqt polow beleg.
>Nyama absolyutno nikakva vruzka mezhdu sexualnostta i obichaite. Dai sega
>da kazhem - bulgarskiyat obichai e cherna kosa i kafevi ochi, i vsichki
>rusi i sineoki da gi iztrebeme...
Kakwa e kosata i kakwi sa ochite sa rawnopostaweni alternatiwi za men. No
pri sexualnostta
nqma spored men rawnopostaweni alternatiwi, a ima edin edinstwen wid
sexualnost, a wsichko
ostanalo e dewiantno powedenie. (Wizh samo kolko taktichno se opitah da
se izrazq...)
>Nito puk ima vruzka mezhdu sexualnost i
>moral. Kakto heterosexualnite, taka i homosexualnite i bisexualnite hora
>mogat da budat moralni ili nemoralni.
Naistina mogat. No wse pak az chetoh nqkyde, che pri homosexualistite
naprimer smqnata na
partnjori se broi za neshto sywsem estestweno i normalno, w mnogo
po-golqma stepen,
otkolkoto pri heterosexualnite hora.
>Che stom mozhe v kinata, zasto ne po televiziyata?
Zashtoto naprimer kinata ne sa nacionalni medii, i ne se finansirat ot
cqloto obshtestwo, a ot
otdelni firmi. Oswen towa w kinata ne puskat deca pod 12, 14, 16, 18
godini. Spomnqm si,
che kato bqh na 12 godini, iskah da si kupq spisanie Playboy w Madrid, i
ne mi go prodadoha
poradi wyzrastta mi, a Playboy e naistisna edno pochti hudozhestweno
izdanie, w srawnenie s
mnogo drugi takiwa spisaniq. Towa oznachawa, che zdrawoto obshestwo
uprazhnqwa kontrol
wyrhu etichnite normi.
>Napulno e nedopustimo i da se pokazva, che homosexualizmut e nesto
>nenormalno ili otricatelno - i tova e tochno tova, koetop mass mediite v
>Bulgaria pravyat. Prosto e razlichno - sustestvuva, ima go, ne
>zastrashava nikogo. I tova e message-ut, koito povecheto filmi s gay
>element nosyat.
Az smqtam, che imeno tozi message e napylno neprawilen. Ime tozi message
e towa, koeto
drazni powecheto hristiqni. Za nas towa ne e "razlichie", a "defekt". I
smqtame za dylboko
nemoralna tezata, che towa e "razlichie".
>Koito si e homo, ste si bude homo, nezavisimo dali mu kazvash che e
>otricatelno ili ne.
Taka e, chowekyt ne e winowen, che genetichniqt mu kod e s greshka.
>Mezhdu drugoto, televisiata e reshila da ne pokazva dori i filmi sus
>socialna tematika.
Koj te e izlygal tolkowa zhestoko? Nqma takowa neshto. Az sym gledal
dosta takiwa filmi po
bylgarskata telewiziq.
Ivan Marinov
Chugune, iskam da te uwedomq, che oswen bylgarskoto pritezhawam i drugo
grazhdanstwo, i po tazi prichina moga po wsqko wreme da dojda w SASHT
bez predwaritelna wiza, taka che treperi!
--
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---
max...@mbox.digsys.bg
mval...@sf.cit.bg
i...@ibm.net
---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
and separately, in each country, each government, each
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---
PGP Key Fingerprint = 9D 85 B7 63 7D 85 14 C1 4C 36 CB 5E 92 70 FE E3
---
Ivan Marinov
dim...@best.com (Dimitar Bojantchev) wrote:
>>Towa e smeshno. Otnoshenieto kym edno neznachitelno "malcinstwo", koeto
>>ne e nito religiozno, nito etnichesko, nito ezikowo, ne e pokazatel za
>>absoljutno nishto. Na krystopyt sme w mnogo neshta, no ne i w towa.
>Naprotiv, tochno tova e edin mnogo principen pokazatel. Kolkoto
>po-malko e malcinstvoto, tolkova po-golyam pokazatel e otnoshenieto
>kum nego... Ne vzemam otnoshenie po bezkrainite drugi sporove, no
>specialno po tazi tochka bih iskal da podchertaya, che edna ot
>osnovnite koncepcii na demokraciyata e, che vseki e v nyakakvo
>malcinstvo i ako vsichki priemem tozi ogranichavasht, majoritaren
>mantalitet za shtyalo i za neshtyalo, to togava shte stigneme do pod
>krivata krusha. No v sushtoto vreme, az ne sum siguren, che
>demokraciya e tova ot koeto Bg se nujdae v momenta... :-)
Az sym napylno za garantirane na prawa na wsqkakwi etnicheski i ezikowi
malcinstwa, zashtoto w
tehniq sluchaj lipsata na towa prawo ima napylno otricatelen efekt. No za
men homsexualistite ne
sa malcinstwo. Za men towa e wid zabolqwane na genetichniq kod. A i
samite te priznawat, che
te sa rodeni s geneticheski defektna orientaciq, no te smqtat, che tozi
defekt ne e defekt, a
prosto razlichie. No towa ne e relewantno. Wazhnoto e, che i nie, i te
sa syglasni, che stawa
duma za otklonenie w genetichniq kod. A az smqtam, che ne mozhe da ima
nikakwi malcinstwa
wyz osnowa na genetichniq kod.
>Specialno za gayovete - te tryabva da budat podchineni na sushtite
>zakoni, kakto i drugite.
I az sym na syshtoto mnenie, no za syzhalenie homosexualisti ne sa
syglasni s towa.
>Tova che te se asociirat pomejdu
>si ne tryabva da bude problem na nikogo.
Neka da se asociirat, kolkoto si iskat. No da ne posqgat wyrhu oblasti,
koito ne sa za tqh.
>Pravoto da budesh ostaven na mira ne e "specialno" pravo Iwane.
>ravoto da spisvash vestnik sushto ne e takova. Zatova si ima
>"chastni" i "nacionalni" medii. Nacionalnite medii tryabva da slujat
>na obshtonacionalnoto dokato chastnite medii na vseki edin koito sei
>interesuva da gi chete i da si plashta za tyah...
Taka e.
>No puk nai-golyamata
>napast tuk sa hristiyanite deto visyat po ulicite i nahalstvat da me
>ubejdavat v priemaneto na Hrista spored nyakakvi si svoi normi... Dali
>sa geyove ili hristiyani, ne tryabva da pritesnyavat publikata --
>inache na koi gospod i na koi chlen se molyat v lichniya si jivot,
>tova ne me interesuva...
Wizh, az syshto ne odobrqwam agresiwnite religiozni propagandni metodi.
No da znesh, che w
powechto sluchai tezi metodi sa prisyshti na psewdo-hristiqni: JWs,
mormoni, munisti, t. n.
Naistina ima i hristiqni, koito se opitwat da izpolzwat takiwa metodi, no
towa za men e dylboko
pogreshno.
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>10 % izobsto ne e neznachitelno. Osven tova, dazhe i 0.00001 % da bayha,
>pak tryabvashe da budat tretirani kato hora i da imat ravni prava kato
>vsichki ostanali.
Te weche imat prawa, kakto wsichki ostanali. Kakwo drugo iskat?
>Tui, tui, narushavali zakona. TO, povod vinagi mozhe da se nameri - pitai
>bivshite komunisti, koito sa i sega navlast, te byaha spec po namirane na
>povodi. Zasto ne zapochnaha s aresti na heterosexual zapisno studio,
>(mnogo poveche na broi) kato sa tolkova zagrizheni za zakona...
Az znam za nqkolko aresti w piratskiq biznes, nqmasht nishto obshto s
homosexualizma. No ne se
bezpokoj, shte pusnat twoite priqteli, tuk wsekigo go puskat...
>Da ne govorim puk samata bulgarska policiya kolko zakoni e narushavala.
Taka e, no towa nqma nishto obshto s tozi sluchaj.
>Mnogo hubav vupros zadavash. Zasto presledvat samo homosexualistite, a
>vseki drug si pravi kakvoto iska?
Mozhe bi zashtoto homosexaulistite poweche se nabiwat w ochite. No
powqrwaj mi, w Bylgariq
wseki (wkljuchitelno i homosexualist) mozhe da prawi KAKWTO SI ISKA -
tochno tuk e
problemyt, che dyrzhawata pochti napylno lipswa...
>Ima, ima. Idi vuv The Holocaust Museum krai Washington D.C. i ste ya
>vidish vruzkata kakva e. Da ne govorim, che evreiskite i gay organizacii
>vinagi sa bili v nai-priyatelski otnosheniya i vzaimno sa se poddurzhali.
KOI ewrejski organizacii? Az dylgo wreme - predi desetina godina -
poseshtawah konserwatiwna
sinagoga, i tam i sleda nqmashe ot takiwa priqtelski otnosheniq... Ima
dosta raznoobrazni ewrejski
organizacii...
>Ami te veche palyat sinagogi, dokolkoto znam.
Nqkakwi nenormalnici pod rykowodstwoto na dwam lajnari (edin ot tqh -
biwsh prawoslawen
sweshtenik... ima i takiwa hora za syzhalenie) atakuwali ewrejski sgradi
i grobishta w rajona na
Ruse, no towa sa samo dwadesetina idiota, i nishto poweche. Nikoj ne gi
podkrepq, nikoj ne ima
simpatizira ni naj-malko. Onq den chuh, che Zhorzh Ganchew se podigrawqa
na Georgi Pirinski
zaradi towa, che e 50 % ewrejche. No edwa li Zhorzh Ganchew e antisemit,
idiotite i
palqchowcite ne sa nikakwi, te nqmat politicheski pozicii.
>Ne govori taka. Nestata se promenyat. Vazhno e ne segashnoto sustoyanie,
>a tendenciyata.
Mislq, i sym ubeden, che nqma nikakwi antisemitski tendencii w Bylgariq.
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
>Vseki si e normalen za sebe si. Horata ne sa izlyati po kalup. Otkude
>nakude ti ste nachertavash liniyata?
Az ne nachertawam nishto. Smqtam, che Bog se e izkazal predelno qsno po
tozi wypros w
Bibliqta.
>Veche e dokazano, che 70 % ot vsichki deca opitvat homosexual activities
>po vreme na puberteta.
Nedej taka! Az wse popadam w grupata na tezi, koito ne sa opitwali, ne sa
poznawli, i t. n.
Qwno az sym super nerelewantna lichnost ot glednata tochka na
statistikata... :-)))
I kakwo e towa "homosexaul activities"? Mozhe bi kogato w pyrwi klas, sa
me karali da dyrzha
rykata na syuchenika po wreme na uchilshten praznik, sym prezhiwql detski
"homosexual
activity"... :-)))
>Kakva tolerantnost mozhesh da vuzpitash ako kazvash che dadeno yavlenie e
>nenormalno? Tuk si protivorechish.
Wseki normalen chowek e toleranten kym blizhniq si, kojto e s defekt...
>Kak ste priemat, kogato samo ti i oste edin dvama vse oste smytate, che
>homosexuality e bolest - vizh s.c.barometer po vuprosa. A be, sto ne
>vzemesh da se osuznaesh?
Az ne sym otgoworil na sobstweniq si wypros w s.c.b. barometera. I nikoga
nqma da me
ubedish, zashtoto az predpochitam da wqrwam na Bibliqta i na sobstwenite
si misli. I za aborta
mnozina dawat absurdni otgowori, no kakwo ot towa. Ima wyprosi, koito sa
obektiwna istina,
ustanowena ot Bog, i tezi neshta ne podlezhat na glasuwane.
>Ami togava tryabva da spresh da predizvikvash podobni izkazvaniya. Priemi
>fakta, che 10 % ot horata okolo teb sa takiva ( kolkoto i da ne ti
>haresva tazi cifra ), i spri da govorish po vuprosa, zastoto samo gi
>draznish i eskalirash konfrontaciyata.
Az nqmashe otnowo da goworq po wyprosa, ako ne beshe postingyt za
flamingowcite.
>Normalno i deviatno sa kategorii, koito opredelyash ti ot tvoyata gledna
>tochka. Ot druga gledna tochka, tvoeto povedenie na religiozen fanatik e
>ne po-malko deviantno.
Ima razlika. Homosexualistyt e takyw po priroda a az sym "religiozen
fanatik" po lichen izbor.
>Drugi puk sa deviantni, zastoto obichat samo heavy
>metal, treti pushat, chetvurti puk se cheshat neprekusnato po glavata i
>t.n. Vseki e s nesto devianten.
Znachi wseki e malcinstwo? :-)
>Nichii genetichen kod ne e perfecten. Ima mnogo po-loshi nesta - geni za
>rak, i mnogo, mnogo loshi zabolyavaniya.
Da, taka e.
>Zasto da se burkame s rabotata na prirodata? Stom tya
>suzdava gay i te ne stradat ot tova ( a ot otnoshenieto na takiva kato
>tebe ), neka da se opitvame da se uvazhavame vsichki hora takiva, kakvito
>sa.
Naukata trqbwa da wyrwi napred. I siguren sym, che sled 10-15-20 godini
shte ima lek za
wsichkite geneticheski problemi, wkljuchitelno i za homosexualizma.
Ivan Marinov
drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova)
>Liberalite sa hora, koito pokazvat mislene free of prejudice.
Ne sym syglasen. Za men liberalite sa hora, koito otrichat obshtestwoto,
tradiciite, obicahite,
religiqta, i nablqgat wyrhu pylniq indiwidulaizym.
>Tezi, koito sa protiv homosexualizma ne mogat da bqdat liberali, te sa
>prosto narrow-minded, zashtoto ne uvajavat ideite i lichnata svoboda
>na drugite.
Na towa nqma da otgoworq, tyj kato ti znaesh mnogo dobre moq otgowor,
kojto bih dal.
>Kakvo spored teb e normalnia red na neshtata?
Zawisi. W sexa naprimer normalnoto e hetrosexualnata wryzka mezhdu edin
myzh i edna zhena.
W obshtestwoto normalnoto e da sledwame i da se uchim ot naptrupaniq opit
na predishnite
pokoleniq, da wyrwim kym bydeshteto ne chrez otricanie, a chrez gradiwno
prodylzhenie. Az
sym anti-liberal, i smqtam, che rezkite rewoljucii i promeni sa neshto
napylno wredno i pagubno.
Chowechestwoto e w upadyk ot kraq na 18 wek, i wsichko towa idwa ot
Frenskata rewoljuciq, ot
nejnite pagubni efekti. Men antikomunistite wse me obqwqwat za komunist,
zashtoto powecheto
antikomunisti sa liberali, a za men komunizmyt e prosto logichno
prodylzhenie i radikalizirana
forma na liberalizma. Liberalizmyt prosto e bashta (ili dqdo?) na
komunizma, socializma i
fashizma. Za men otricanieto na komunizma i priemaneto na liberalizma e
polowinchato reshenie,
towa e neshto kato ideologiqta na reform-komunistite: "Stalin e losh,
Lenin e dobyr".
>>Homosexualisti sa "weakest"??? Ne mi gowori takiwa smeshni neshta!
>>Homosexualistite ne sa
>>krotki i plahi bezdomni kuchenca, taka che srawnenieto ti e neumestno. Az
>Te sa weak v strani kato Bqlgaria i dr. s homophobski mantalitet.
>Niamam predvid fizicheska slabost, a do niakqde sotsialna, zashtoto
>niama nikakvi zakoni, koito da gi zashtitavat.
Ot takiwa zakoni nqma prosto nikakwa nuzhda. Nali te sa "prosto
razlichni"? Togawa za kakwo sa
im potrqbwali zakoni, da ne bi nie heterosexaulnite imame zakoni za
nashata zashtita? Neka si se
wyrgalqt wkyshti s kogoto si iskat, nikoj ne im prechi - za towa nqma
nuzhda ot nikakwi zakoni.
>Kakto vijdame vsichki organizirani proiavi ot tiahna strana sa
>obrecheni na proval.
Ami koj gi kara da prawqt organizirani proqwi? Za kakwo sa tiq proqwi?
Towa e prosto smeshno.
>Az sqshto imah siamska kotka, kogato jiveeh v Bg. Tia boleduvashe
>chesto, zashtoto chistite porodi sa po-weak. V Sofia imashe edna
>veterinarna bolnitsta, koiato beshe v izkluchitelno okaiano polojenie.
>Da ne govorim, che mi beshe kazano, che za da se razbere kakqv e
>problemqt triabva da si nameria mikrobiolog,koito da napravi posiavki
>i sled tova lekariat shte si kaje ekspertizata...T.e napravi si sam.
Weche ima chastni weterinarni lekari. Az sym s edin na barterni nachala:
az mu oprawqm
kompjutyra, a toj lekuwa kotkata mi :-)
>Dori imashe natisk ot" mnozinstvoto" tazi moje bi edinstvena po roda
>si bolnitsa v BG da bqde zatvorena, no ne si spomniam veche zashto.
Ne znam nishto za towa.
>Da ne govorim za bezdomnite kucheta i kotki. Niama nikakvi priutni
>domove za tiah, vqobshte v tazi strana nikoi za nishto ne go e
>grija...
Ima edni tipowe, koito imat nqkakyw prijut. Sybirat bezdomni kucheta i
kotki, i gi sterilizirat, a
posle gi puskat obratno w kwartala, kydeto bqha pribrani. No rabotata im
e dosta neefektiwna
poradi lipsa na sredstwa. Za syzhalenie w Bylgariq naistina powecheto
hora ne se wylnuwat ot
problema na bezdomnite zhiwotni. No wse pak mozhe bi towa se dylzhi na
finansowi prichini:
powecheto hora prosto ne sa w systoqnie da pribirat zhiwotni i da gi
hranqt. Izdryzhkata na
moqta kotka izliza kolkoto polowin sredna pensiq w Bylgariq...
Alexander Yordanov
On 27 Jul 1996, Bernd Dworniczak wrote:
> drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>=20
> >A society is judged by how it treats its weakest members-gays, women,
> =09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=
=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09 ---------------
> >children, animals...
> >
> >Siya
>=20
>=20
> And why, pardon me, are the gays among the "weakest members"? Because
> they=A5re more "feminine" perhaps? -how 'bout the lesbians, they're also
> "gay", aren't they? Is their masculine behaviour puting them in the
> category of the "weak members"? Here I beg to differ.
Why are you interpreting the words so literally? We are talking about=20
those members of a society who are weak socially, and *not* physically.
> And I was surprised to know that animals were members of our society. I
> do not know what Dr. Stoyanova has her PhD at, but I suggest that she
> start making sense.
Well, let me give you an example. On most university campuses in the=20
U.S.A. you can see rabits, squarels and turtles wandering freely. Do you=20
know how fast were they gonna be caught and eaten in Bulgaria?
I will not comment on the fact that when I was in ninth grade three of my=
=20
classmates were cutting a small kitten into pieces while the=20
rest were lauphing and having fun. And those were students in a=20
prestigeous secondary school.
It tells you a lot about the mentality of a nation.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
> Gays don't have free access to the military, can't get married &
> probably have problems with adopting children.
> The society granted these rights to its straight members, why not give
> some to its gay members, as well.
A normal society cannot grant rights to adopt children for homosexuals,
as having children is a heterosexaul task.
Marriage is also a heterosexual privilege, as a marriage means union of a
man and a woman. A normal society doesn't allow "gay marriages".
Military. Homosexuals in the military will destroy military discipline,
as no one will respect a heterosexual officer giving commands. So a
normal society will not allow homosexuals into the army.
> Yes, some people treat their domestic pets as children, or friends or
> respectful members of their femilies.
> I knew a lady who didn't have any kids, instead she had a dog and she
> was reffering to him as her "baby". When she was out for 2 or 3 days,
> the dog missed her so much...What do you call this: a relationship or
> something else?
This is abnormal, A dog is a dog, and it should be respected as a dog, a
not as a human.
Bernd Dworniczak
drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>A society is judged by how it treats its weakest members-gays, women,
---------------
>children, animals...
>
>Siya
And why, pardon me, are the gays among the "weakest members"? Because
they=A5re more "feminine" perhaps? -how 'bout the lesbians, they're also
"gay", aren't they? Is their masculine behaviour puting them in the
category of the "weak members"? Here I beg to differ.
And I was surprised to know that animals were members of our society. I
do not know what Dr. Stoyanova has her PhD at, but I suggest that she
start making sense.
-kgb*cia 4ever
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Mister Sinister
In article <31FA79...@mbox.digsys.bg>, Ivan Marinov
<max...@mbox.digsys.bg> wrote:
[snip unrelated material]
> Military. Homosexuals in the military will destroy military discipline,
> as no one will respect a heterosexual officer giving commands. So a
> normal society will not allow homosexuals into the army.
>
or less single-handedly turning a ragtag collection of undisciplined
militiamen into a Continental Army capable of defeating the greatest
military power on Earth at that time, was homosexual.
Homosexuals, just like heterosexuals, have served with distinction in
military forces throughout recorded history, and do so today in many armed
services across the world -- including the US and, I'm sure, the
Bulgarian. For the life of me I cannot see what possible relevance what a
person likes to stick into whom or vice versa has to their ability to fire
a weapon.
> Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
> ---
> max...@mbox.digsys.bg
> mval...@sf.cit.bg
> i...@ibm.net
> ---
> PGP Key Fingerprint = 9D 85 B7 63 7D 85 14 C1 4C 36 CB 5E 92 70 FE E3
> ---
---------\/--------- Mr.Sinister, sysop
[| # /\ # |] Sinister Exile BBS
\_______/ \_______/ +1.601.473.9816
misters...@watervalley.net
Slavey Tolev
On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
>
> > Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> >
> > > Bulgaria e na krustoput - tova e yasno. Ili ste poeme putya kum Evropa,
> > > ili kum Blizkiya iztok. I tova ne si lichi veche samo ot facta, che
> > > policiyata e zapochnala da presledva gayte.
> >
> > Towa e smeshno. Otnoshenieto kym edno neznachitelno "malcinstwo", koeto
> > ne e nito religiozno, nito etnichesko, nito ezikowo, ne e pokazatel za
> > absoljutno nishto. Na krystopyt sme w mnogo neshta, no ne i w towa.
Pqrvo, edno malcinstvo nikoga ne e neznachitelno. Edin da e pak e
malcinstvo. i kato chlen na edno obshtestvo ima pravo na uvajenie kakto i
pravo da ne bqde presledvano zaradi svoite razliki ot mnozinstvoto. TOva
che ne e nito ezikovo, religiozno ili nacionalno ili etnichesko ne
oznachava che tryabva da bqde pretopeno v mnozinstvoto.
> > Tiq homosexualisti ot "Flamingo" gi goneha poradi towa, che te
> > narushawaha zakona. Maj se seshtam za edin reportazh po telewiziqta.
> > Obwinenieto beshe za nezakonna tyrgowiq s piratski kaseti, nelegalno
> > zapisno studio, detsko porno, i t. n., horata ne sa bili presladwani,
> > zaradi towa, che sa homosexualisti. Ot wreme na wreme policiqta w
Kogato iskash da presledvash nyakogo obvineniya vinagi shte se nameryat
ili kakto e sluchaya v BG vinagi mogat da se izfabrikuvat.Po tova
Bqlgariya e maystor. Moga da dam samo nyakolko primera: Predi godini
turcite spokoyno si raboteha horata, pieha si kafeto i si igraeha tablata
i eto edin den nashata propagandna mashina grqmna che te bili takiva
onakiva. I reshiha da gi izgonyat. Izkarvaha gi ot kqshtite im i gi
karaha da prodavat imoti na smeshni ceni i sled kato gi izritaha v
Turciya i osqznaha che nyama koy da pribere rekoltata zashtoto bqlgarite
vse sa sviknali nyakoy drug da im vqrshi rabotata, gi obviniha che bili
izbyagali ot svoite otgovornosti kato "trujenici na zemyata"
Oshte primeri: Predi vreme goneha vsekavi "nestandartni elementi vredni
za obshtestvoto" kato: heavy-metali, punkove, gqzari, wave-vo i t.n. Az
kato wave si priznavam che sqm gonen po-malko ot metali koito vseki pqt
yadyaha boy v miliciyata ama pak nyama da zabravya kato me pitaha zashto
si slagam gel i lak za kosa i dali ne sqm "pederast" i kakvi sa tiya
Depeche Mode razni narkomani i prochie.
A sega edin primer ot po-blizkoto minalo. Minalata godina pet chengeta
ubiha edno nevinno momche v policiyata s ritnici i yumrqci i oshte ne sa
gi osqdili. Tova li narichate "slujiteli na zakona"? Zashtoto te za men
vinagi shte si bqdat ushevi, kutloni, chengeta, praseta i razna druga
chervena sgan.
> > > Zhalko, che bulgarskoto pravitelstvo tolkova mnogo kryaka po sveta kak
> > > bili spasili evreite na vremeto. Osraha se.
> >
> > 1. Nqma nikakwa wryzka mezhdu dwete neshta.
Ima i to golyama vrqzka. Ne moje da prebivash edni hora a v sqshtoto
vreme da se tupash po gqrdite che si spasil nyakoy drug.
> Ima, ima. Idi vuv The Holocaust Museum krai Washington D.C. i ste ya
> vidish vruzkata kakva e. Da ne govorim, che evreiskite i gay organizacii
> vinagi sa bili v nai-priyatelski otnosheniya i vzaimno sa se poddurzhali.
>
> > 2. Zashto da ne "krqka"? Nali Bylgariq e edna ot obshto dwete strani w
> > cqla Ewropi, nepozwolila "krajnoto reshenie". Zashto Bylgariq da ne se
> > gordee s plozhitelnite
> > fakti w istoriqta si? Mnogo interesna logika - samo izwrateni tipowe i
> > nenormalnici imat prawo da
> > "krqkat"...??? Ako nqkoj drug posmee da "krqka", znachi "se e osral"...
Samo che zaradi prostashtinata na policiyata i na pravitelstvoto i na
hora kato Vas, pochti nikoy na ZApad ne e chuval za BG katospasitel na
evreite ami sa chuvali za BG- gonitel na turcite.
A eto naprimer Dania sa s[asili edva 5,000 ama vseki gi znae zashtoto sa
demokratichna dqrjava v koyato vseki ima prava. Da ne govorim che DAnia
beshe pqrvata strana koyato razreshi same sex marriages.
> Ami ako ne mozhesh da ya shvanesh logikata, tolkova po-zle za teb. Bavno
> zagryavash.
>
> > > Dip che veche nyama evrei v
> > > Bulgaria, a to che i tyah styaha da gonyat, to e yasno.
> >
> > Nqma weche ewrei? Gluposti. Naj-malko sa okolo 9-10 hilqdi.
Tova ne e vyarno. V BG ima nay-mnogo okolo 5-6 hilyadi s evreyski
familni imena i okolo 2-3 hilyadi rodnini. Prez 48 godina 37,500 ot
obshto 45-te hilyadi Bqlgarski evrei se preselvat v Israel, vklyuchitelno
i slavniya Moshe Dayan - sokola na Pustinyata.
> Ami te veche palyat sinagogi, dokolkoto znam.
>
V Ruse milsya i v Sofia imashe vandalshtini na evreyski grobove. A da ne
govorim za ejednevnite mqki prez koito minavat ciganite i ot skinovette i
ot policiyata povecheto ot koito sa tqpi rasisti i prostaci.
> > > Mezhdu drugoto, ima tam
> > > proyavi i na antisemitizum. Yasno e nakude vurvyat nestata.
> >
> > Chuwash li se kakwi smeshni raboti goworish? I w SASHT i Kanada i w cqla
> > Zapadna i Iztochna Ewropa ima proqwi na antisemitizym, dazhe i
> > mnogo poweche ot Bylgariq. Sledwashtiqt US prezident shte e Hitler -
> > weche wsichko e predresheno :-) Naprimer antisemitskite Internet-resursi
> > sa naj-mnogo w Kanada, a ne w Bylgariq, a e dobre izwestno, che powecheto
> > antisemiti sa prijuteni w Kanada i SASHT. Az lichno znam ne edna
> > amerikanska taka narechena "hristiqnska" cyrkwa, propowqdwashta
> > "antisemitizym". W Bylgariq takawa cyrkwa nqma. Bylgariq ima pochti pylen
> > imunitet sreshtu
> > antisemitizma - towa e rqdko qwlenie w Ewropa.
Bullocks. Nay-antisemitskite organizacii v momenta sa v Evropa okolo
Avstriya, Bavaria i Ungariya i razbira se Rusiya, Ukraina i ostanalite
sqvetski republiki. Sledvat Romqniya, Sqrbiya, Gqrciya i Hrvatska.
Bqlgaria vse oshte ne e dostignala tyhnoto nivo no tova ne oznachava che
trybva da spim spokoyni zashtoto v BG se presledvat drugi malcinstva i
nared sa armencite, evreite i "raznite drugi"
A inache nay-silnite evreyski organizacii sa v New York :
1. Workmen's Circle
2. The Socialist Bund
3. YIVO
4. the Jewish theological SEminary and Yeshiva Inc.
sledvat organizacii ot Philly, DC, Baltimore, Miami Beach, Boca Raton,
Boston (Newton and Brokline) and New Jersey
Sled tova ima edna ogormna koloniya ot Yiddish speaking Jews in Montreal
that is very well alive and successful in preserving the Jewish
traditions, thankyouvery much.
Sledvat Buenos Aires, Bogota, Sao Paolo and so on...
"Kato ne znaesh - pitay" mi kazvashe bashta mi...
Slaveycho
Scott A. Safier
! A normal society cannot grant rights to adopt children for homosexuals,
! as having children is a heterosexaul task.
task?
I know any number of gay and lesbian couples that have children, and raise them.
! Marriage is also a heterosexual privilege, as a marriage means union of a
! man and a woman. A normal society doesn't allow "gay marriages".
circular logic.
In America, civil marriage is the entry point where society bestows
rights, obligations and responsibilities on committed couples. There is
no requirement for procreation, nor is the government permitted to require
procreation in a marriage (see Roe v Wade and Griswold v Connecticut as US
Supreme Court precedents for this).
Marriage is an evolving institution. 200 years ago, blacks could not
marry in this country because "marriage" was a right reserved for "people"
and blacks weren't people. Less than 30 years ago, people from different
races couldn't marry, because the "purity of the races" needed to be
protected. Women use to be considered the property of their husbands and
not allowed to own their own. This has also changed. Now, we have Ivan
defining marriage and normality as reasons to deny people civil rights.
! Military. Homosexuals in the military will destroy military discipline,
! as no one will respect a heterosexual officer giving commands. So a
! normal society will not allow homosexuals into the army.
The ancient greeks believed that the greatest army was one composed of
same-sex lovers -- for no man will fight as hard but to protect his lover
in combat.
There's even a story in your early Christian literature about Saints Serge
and Baccus, who were lovers and warriors.
! > Yes, some people treat their domestic pets as children, or friends or
! > respectful members of their femilies.
! > I knew a lady who didn't have any kids, instead she had a dog and she
! > was reffering to him as her "baby". When she was out for 2 or 3 days,
! > the dog missed her so much...What do you call this: a relationship or
! > something else?
!
! This is abnormal, A dog is a dog, and it should be respected as a dog, a
! not as a human.
I am not at all surprised that Ivan considers reaching out to another
living thing as "abnormal".
--
Scott Safier Robotics Institute
internet: cor...@cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon Univ.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scotts/www/
Western PA Freedom to Marry Coalition Homepage
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scotts/ftp/wpaf2mc
Ivan Marinov
Slavey Tolev <sto...@gemini.willamette.edu> wrote:
>Pqrvo, edno malcinstvo nikoga ne e neznachitelno. Edin da e pak e
>malcinstvo. i kato chlen na edno obshtestvo ima pravo na uvajenie kakto i
>pravo da ne bqde presledvano zaradi svoite razliki ot mnozinstvoto. TOva
>che ne e nito ezikovo, religiozno ili nacionalno ili etnichesko ne
>oznachava che tryabva da bqde pretopeno v mnozinstvoto.
Koj kazwa, che malcinstwata trqbwa da bydat presledwani ili pretopeni? No
dosta hora se
predstawqt za malcinstwa s cel da bydat oblagodetelstwani. Za men
homosexualistite sa imeno
takowa malcinstwo. Az smqtam, che wsqkakwa razlika ot normalnoto ne mozhe
da e prichina za
da byde smetnat nqkoj kato malcinstwo. Dumata 'malcinstwo' trqbwa da e
juridicheski definiran
termin. a ne proizwolen izraz, zashtoto inache shte byde omalowazhena
rolqta na istinskite
etnicheski, narodnostni malcinstwa. Az sym zashtitnik na malcinstwata, no
samo na ISTINSKITE
malcinstwa.
>Samo che zaradi prostashtinata na policiyata i na pravitelstvoto i na
>hora kato Vas, pochti nikoy na ZApad ne e chuval za BG katospasitel na
>evreite ami sa chuvali za BG- gonitel na turcite.
Towa e grqh na komunistite nachelo s Todor Zhiwkow. Towa ne e grqh na
bylgraskiq narod kato
cqlo. Nie s zhena mi sme hristiqni, i sme hodili prez dekemwri 1989 g. na
mitingite na turcite i
pomacite za da im pomagame i da podkrepqme kauzata im. Zashto smqtash,
che zaradi
grehowete na edna na praktika nezakonna komunisticheska totalitarna wlast
trqbwa da strada
celiqt bylgarski narod?
> > Nqma weche ewrei? Gluposti. Naj-malko sa okolo 9-10 hilqdi.
>Tova ne e vyarno. V BG ima nay-mnogo okolo 5-6 hilyadi s evreyski
>familni imena i okolo 2-3 hilyadi rodnini.
Ne zabrawqj za tezi s chisto bylgarski imena, no s majka ewrejka - tqh
zashto ne gi broish za
ewrei? Izraelskiqt zakon gi broi za ewrei...
>V Ruse milsya i v Sofia imashe vandalshtini na evreyski grobove. A da ne
>govorim za ejednevnite mqki prez koito minavat ciganite i ot skinovette i
>ot policiyata povecheto ot koito sa tqpi rasisti i prostaci.
Ne otricham, che ima skinowe. Ima gi. Az syshto imam poznata, koqto imat
osinoweni
negyrcheta i ne sme na minawa a deteto kraj Popa (krystowishteteo na
Patriarh Eftimij i Graf
Ignatij)... No skinarite sa mnogo malko. A skinowe i rasisti ima
nawsqkyde, po celiq swqt. Zashto
trqbwa cqla Bylgariq da ponasq obwineniq zaradi 200-300 nenormalnici? W
Ungariq te sa
nqkolko hilqdi i sa super organizirani w srawnenie s bylgarskite (dazhe
finansowo sa podpomagani
ot drugarite im w Kanada, Germaniq i Awstriq), no nikoj ne obwinqwa
Ungariq zaradi tezi 4-5
hilqdi idiota. A za policiqta ne si praw, policiqta ne presledwa nikogo
poradi etnicheskiq proizhod
ili rasa.
>Nay-antisemitskite organizacii v momenta sa v Evropa okolo
>Avstriya, Bavaria i Ungariya i razbira se Rusiya, Ukraina i ostanalite
>sqvetski republiki. Sledvat Romqniya, Sqrbiya, Gqrciya i Hrvatska.
>Bqlgaria vse oshte ne e dostignala tyhnoto nivo no tova ne oznachava che
>trybva da spim spokoyni zashtoto v BG se presledvat drugi malcinstva i
>nared sa armencite, evreite i "raznite drugi"
1. Znachi priznawash prawotata na moeto stanowishte. Sam kazwash, che w
Bylgariq
antisemitizmyt ne e dostignal "tqhnowto niwo". A i nqma da dostigne.
Bylgarite sa izkljuchitelno
tolerantni kym ewreite.
2. Presledawt se armencite? Ne me rasmiwaj. Wqrno e, che za razlika ot
ewreite ne poznawam
mnogo dobre wyprosa s armencite, no wse pak imal sym poznati armenci
(dazhe imam rodnini
armenci: ednata mi wtora bratowchedka e zhenena za armenec), i nikoj
nikoga ne mi e kazwal
podobno neshto.
>"Kato ne znaesh - pitay" mi kazvashe bashta mi...
Razbrah te - wsichkite ewrei, bez izkljuchenie, w Kanada i SASHT sa
liberali i socialisti :-) Shte
kazha na wsichkite mi poznati ewrei s desni wyzgledi, che te ne sa
istinski ewrei :-)
--
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---
max...@mbox.digsys.bg
mval...@sf.cit.bg
i...@ibm.net
---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
and separately, in each country, each government, each
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
Ivan Marinov
cor...@cmu.edu (Scott A. Safier) wrote:
>! A normal society cannot grant rights to adopt children for homosexuals,
>! as having children is a heterosexaul task.
>task?
>I know any number of gay and lesbian couples that have children, and raise them.
Yes, but it's unmoral. Homosexuals should not be allowed to have
children.
>! Marriage is also a heterosexual privilege, as a marriage means union of a
>! man and a woman. A normal society doesn't allow "gay marriages".
>circular logic.
>In America, civil marriage is the entry point where society bestows
>rights, obligations and responsibilities on committed couples. There is
>no requirement for procreation, nor is the government permitted to require
>procreation in a marriage (see Roe v Wade and Griswold v Connecticut as US
>Supreme Court precedents for this).
Human laws don't have right to anulate God's laws. And God's opinion on
homosexuality is
clear.
>Marriage is an evolving institution. 200 years ago, blacks could not
>marry in this country because "marriage" was a right reserved for "people"
>and blacks weren't people. Less than 30 years ago, people from different
>races couldn't marry, because the "purity of the races" needed to be
>protected. Women use to be considered the property of their husbands and
>not allowed to own their own. This has also changed. Now, we have Ivan
>defining marriage and normality as reasons to deny people civil rights.
I think that marriage is not an universal human right, it's a right
reserved for unions of men and
women only.
>! This is abnormal, A dog is a dog, and it should be respected as a dog, a
>! not as a human.
>I am not at all surprised that Ivan considers reaching out to another
>living thing as "abnormal".
There's a difference between humans and animals. I like animals, but they
are animals, not
humans, so animals don't need human rights. They need animal rights. This
is my opinion.
Jackie Chang
In article <corwin+-2907...@stress.sensor.ri.cmu.edu>,
cor...@cmu.edu (Scott A. Safier) wrote:
>In article <31FA79...@mbox.digsys.bg>, Ivan Marinov
><max...@mbox.digsys.bg> wrote:
>
>! A normal society cannot grant rights to adopt children for homosexuals,
>! as having children is a heterosexaul task.
>
>task?
>I know any number of gay and lesbian couples that have children, and
raise them.
Homosexuals should not have the right to adopt children.
Think about it! The poor children have two dads or two moms and none of
the other,and the way children are raise to think is also a problem.
I惴 not saying that being gay is not normal,for me it愀 not normal but if
other people fell happy about being gay itæ„€ okey for them and I wish them
well.
BUT adopting children??? I donæ„’ think so.Itæ„€ not the way for any child
to be rasied.
Best regards,Filip
--
Ivan Marinov
drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>I hope that in the future there will be more people like me and less
>like you:-) Then the society will be a much better place to live in.
The future will show that I'm right, and you're wrong... The more
liberals live in a society, the
worse will be the society.
>Now the majority of people are affraid to make a social experiments in
>order to study what happens and gain new knowledge.
Social experiments? Something like Lenin or Pol Pot? They were also
"studying" "what
happens". I'm sure you don't want to follow their example. I'M AGAINST
ALL KINDS OF
SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS! Social experiments should be banned. Let those who
wish to "study"
social experiments go to an uninhabited island, and there they will have
the opportunity to make
experiments on themselves.
>You haven't been to the military, right? What do you know about
>military discipline?
I personally haven't been to military. But 99 % of friends have been, so
I have a lot of
information on this issue.
>>This is abnormal, A dog is a dog, and it should be respected as a dog, a
>>not as a human.
>Yeah, sure. Some people accept it as normal to beat and show vulgar,
>rude manners towards animals, because they can't fight back. I'll not
>be surprised if you consider this normal too.
I don't consider it's good to be cruel with animals. But animals are
animals, and they don't need
human rights. Do you REALLY claim that animals need human rights?
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>Well, let me give you an example. On most university campuses in the
>U.S.A. you can see rabits, squarels and turtles wandering freely. Do you
>know how fast were they gonna be caught and eaten in Bulgaria?
Don't forget that an average student in Bulgaria has 70-80 times less
income than an avarage
American student!
>I will not comment on the fact that when I was in ninth grade three of
>my
>classmates were cutting a small kitten into pieces while the
>rest were lauphing and having fun. And those were students in a
>prestigeous secondary school.
This is beacuse it was a "prestigious" secondary school. My opinion is
that in "prestigious"
schools there are much more anti-human children, than in ordinary
schools. I have the money to
send my son to a private scool here in Sofia, but I will NEVER do that,
because in these so called
"prestigious" schools there are mostly children of criminals, "borci",
thieves, illiterate bank
presidents, artists without talents, corrupt politicians, mass killers,
and other kinds of shit. In
these schools children use narcotics, smoke, drink, have group sex,
participate in religious cults,
use black magic, etc.
>It tells you a lot about the mentality of a nation.
Cruelty with animals? Maybe. You're right that in Bulgaria most people
don't respect animals. I
don't know what's the reason for this. But I don't think that this has
any links with the mentality
of a nation. You know, I lived 6 years in Cuba. There the people live
much worse than in
Bulgaria (avarage montly income is THREE (3) US Dollars). There's a very
big intolerance
against homosexualism, the avarage person will beat a homosexual stranger
in the street, but at
the same time there's a big respect for animals, there's almost no
cruelty against animals. So I
think that you're wrong in your conclusions...
Let me tell something interesting. I was a 1st grade student of
Psychology in 1986. We had a
practical discipline with animal experiments on frogs, mice, dogs. There
was animal experiments
once every two weeks. I asked for permission to not attend these
experiments because of moral
consciense reasons. They didn't allow that. I leaved then Psychology.
This is the reason I'm not a
Psychologyst now...
Borislav Stojanov
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960727...@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu>,
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>On 27 Jul 1996, Bernd Dworniczak wrote:
>
>> drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>>=20
>> >A society is judged by how it treats its weakest members-gays, women,
>> =09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=
>=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09 ---------------
>> >children, animals...
>> >
>> >Siya
>>=20
>>=20
>> And why, pardon me, are the gays among the "weakest members"? Because
>> they=A5re more "feminine" perhaps? -how 'bout the lesbians, they're also
>> "gay", aren't they? Is their masculine behaviour puting them in the
>> category of the "weak members"? Here I beg to differ.
>
>Why are you interpreting the words so literally? We are talking about=20
>those members of a society who are weak socially, and *not* physically.
>
>> And I was surprised to know that animals were members of our society. I
>> do not know what Dr. Stoyanova has her PhD at, but I suggest that she
>> start making sense.
>
>Well, let me give you an example. On most university campuses in the=20
>U.S.A. you can see rabits, squarels and turtles wandering freely. Do you=20
>know how fast were they gonna be caught and eaten in Bulgaria?
>
>I will not comment on the fact that when I was in ninth grade three of my=
>=20
>classmates were cutting a small kitten into pieces while the=20
>rest were lauphing and having fun. And those were students in a=20
>prestigeous secondary school.
>
>It tells you a lot about the mentality of a nation.
I guess this is your personal opinion. I feel many people would disagree
with it. Plus, you are part of that nation, too -- for good or bad.
>
>
>Alex
--
Borislav Stojanov
karadjov
: >I hope that in the future there will be more people like me and less
: >like you:-) Then the society will be a much better place to live in.
: The future will show that I'm right, and you're wrong... The more
: liberals live in a society, the
: worse will be the society.
So, Dedo Pop is telling us that the best society ever to be found have
been in Germany - 1934-1945, Eastern Europe - 1945-49, USSR 1917-1990,
Medival Spain under the incvisition, the wich burning puritans on the new
world -17th-18th century, and some other such examples!
I have only one thing to say - nice choice Dedo Pope!!!!
Georgi Karadjov
: >Now the majority of people are affraid to make a social experiments in
: >order to study what happens and gain new knowledge.
: Social experiments? Something like Lenin or Pol Pot? They were also
: "studying" "what
: happens". I'm sure you don't want to follow their example. I'M AGAINST
: ALL KINDS OF
: SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS! Social experiments should be banned. Let those who
: wish to "study"
: social experiments go to an uninhabited island, and there they will have
: the opportunity to make
: experiments on themselves.
: >You haven't been to the military, right? What do you know about
: >military discipline?
: I personally haven't been to military. But 99 % of friends have been, so
: I have a lot of
: information on this issue.
: >>This is abnormal, A dog is a dog, and it should be respected as a dog, a
: >>not as a human.
: >Yeah, sure. Some people accept it as normal to beat and show vulgar,
: >rude manners towards animals, because they can't fight back. I'll not
: >be surprised if you consider this normal too.
: I don't consider it's good to be cruel with animals. But animals are
: animals, and they don't need
: human rights. Do you REALLY claim that animals need human rights?
: --
: Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
: ---
: max...@mbox.digsys.bg
: mval...@sf.cit.bg
: i...@ibm.net
: ---
: "The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
: and separately, in each country, each government, each
: political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
: life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
: without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
: society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
: of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
: ---
: PGP Key Fingerprint = 9D 85 B7 63 7D 85 14 C1 4C 36 CB 5E 92 70 FE E3
: ---
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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: (416)233-2999, 1000 lines Do-It-Yourself Webserver? :
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
> And what is the way?
> If they are loving, responsible and nice people , I don't see what's
> the problem. Raising a child takes a great deal of time, effort and
> knowledge of the natural processes of child development. I think that
> many of the gay people have this knowledge and are able to become good
> parents and caregivers.
Raising children means education of those children in a traditional way.
Homosexuals are not traditional people, so it must be banned the adoption
by them of children.
Ivan Marinov
drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>>The future will show that I'm right, and you're wrong... The more
>>liberals live in a society, the
>>worse will be the society.
> We'll see, we'll see... Look what's happening in Europe (Western, I
>mean :-))
I see what's happening in W Europe. I read that article proposed by
Alex... There is Satanism
happening...
>>I personally haven't been to military. But 99 % of friends have been, so
>>I have a lot of
>>information on this issue.
>Did you try to escape, using connections, because it is hard to be a
>soldier , or you just have health (mental?) reasons for skipping that
>important task in your life?
1. I don't think that being a soldier is an important task for EVERY
member of the society.
There are persons who hate this kind of discipline, weapons, and those
persons like me will be of
very little benefit to the army. But if I'm needed, I have nothing
against going to the army to a
non-military (without weapon) function. Maybe there's need for
translators or computer
operators...
2. I didn't have the proper connection to avoid military. But I have more
than one citizenship,
and maybe for this reason I was skipped. I was also at a medical
examination in the military at
age 18. They said I'm not ready for the army for three years because of a
disease I have (don't
worry, it's not mental!). After three years, they didn't send me any new
invitation, maybe
because of my plural citizenship. I didn't go there to ask why they are
not inviting me into the
army. This was my way to "avoid" the military :-)
I think that my answer was full on this issue. But if you have further
questions, feel free to ask.
>Information is not enough to become a person. You need to be trained.
I think that the military train people to become soldiers, not to become
persons. People become
persons not at age 17-19, they became persons apr. 9 months before their
birth.
>I haven't claimed that they need human rights, but rights. Don't twist
>my words, please.
>I'm tired of your demagogy
I think that the demagogy was yours. There's nothing in common between
animal rights and
homosexual "rights".
>As you see these are not special rights but measures to protect what
>is rare and valuable.
OK. But this has nothing in common with human rights. Animal rights are
for animals, human
rights are for humans, do you agree?
Ivan Marinov
karadjov wrote:
> So, Dedo Pop is telling us that the best society ever to be found have
> been in Germany - 1934-1945, Eastern Europe - 1945-49, USSR 1917-1990,
> Medival Spain under the incvisition, the wich burning puritans on the
> new
> world -17th-18th century, and some other such examples!
>
> I have only one thing to say - nice choice Dedo Pope!!!!
Germany, Eastern Europe and the USSR aren't good choices, there were
fascism, communism, socialism - all these doctrines are the logical
continuation of the liberal doctrine.
I don't have a personal favourite choice. I think that the best society
would be a combination of conservativism, Christianity and
anti-liberalism. The political power may be based on recognized
authorities chosen by the people or traditional monarchy. I don't like
the parlamentary system, but maybe - if combined with traditionalism and
Christianity - it can work. I don't know. We can have a discussion on
this issue.
I have Christian friends with different views on this question. Some
people think that the ideal system would be a traditional monarchy with a
limited power consultative parlament and the Orthodox Church having legal
authority in philosophical aspects of the political system. Others think
that the Church should have only moral authority, but not legal. Others
think that monarchy is already corrupted, and republic is a better
choice, but there should be a new Constitution limiting the rights of
persons with unmoral behaviour. I personally think that the real choice
is not between monarchy and republic, but I recognize that most people
think that the monarchy is a morally better choice (even in the US I know
some people who fight for the establishment of a Christian monarchy
there). Personally I think that the choice is between morality and
unmorality, while both republic and monarchy can be moral and unmoral.
Others think that there must be a total democracy as in ancient Greece,
but limited only to persons who have proved that they are not
individualists. So there's no universal opinion on this question. The
only thing we agree in is that the actual liberal system is corrupt and
it doesn't serve the people's needs.
George Georgiev
Hi everyone,
I continue the discussion on this thread on bulgarian, as I think the
homosexuality in Bulgaria is a bulgarian question and no pattern should be
taken from another societies, especially so different form our one as the
american one is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ako ne se lqja, homoseksualizmqt (pederastlqkqt, da si go kajem po
nashenski) e zabranen sqs zakon pri nas, pone taka beshe predi pet godini,
kogato biah tam. Ne mi se iska da viarvam, che bqlgarinqt moje da bqde
izlqgan i upoen dotam, che da dostigne tukashnoto nivo na bezrazlichie i
bezmozqchie, koeto pozvoliava pederasite da sa nai-uvajavanata chast ot
naselenieto i da sa povod Kanada da se gordee s tiah. Bqlgarinqt po
rojdenie e buden i zdravomislesht, a i za shtastie amerikanskata mashina
za mozqkopromivane ne vqrvi pri nas (kakto i vqobshte v Evropa).
Az izprashtam naskoro sinqt mi da uchi edna godina v Bqlgaria, i edna ot
celite mi e da poluchi zdrava anti-pderaska imunizacia, koiato tuk shte mi
e po-trudno da mu predam, sled kato v uchilishte gi uchat, che niama
nishto losho v tova da si homoseksualen i che tova si e v redqt na
neshtata.
Niakolko fakta za pederasite v Montreal:
- Sqglasno "Voir", pro-pederastki vestnik ( ama che iztocnik
namerih! ) vseki peti zapitan v centqra na grada otgovaria, che e s liava
rezba i se gordee s tova. ( Pederastkiat kvartal e blizo do centqra - tova
e nai-zapadnalata chast na grada.)
- Vsiaka godina v Montreal se provejda 'parad na gordostta' na
pederasite, koito m/u drugoto e zled dva-tri dni za tazi godina.
- 'Healt Canada' vchera preddloji 15 000 dozi bezplatna vaksina
sreshtu hepatit 'A', koito v momenta gazi pederasite v Montreal (Eto zashto
plastam polovinata ot dohodite si na danqci !!!).
- Izkazvane sreshtu pederast na parlamentaren clen na partia
oznachava avtomatichnoto mu izgonvane ot pariata mu - imashe dva sluchaia
tazi prolet.
- Obedinenieto na pederasite i lizbiikite postoianno vodi procesi
za revizirane na toia ili onia zakon - pensii, osinoviavane, naslediavane
i t.n. - pederast obicha da prikazvat za nego.
- Tqi kato pederasite sa absoliutno legalni tuk nishto ne moje da
im poprechi da populiarizirat dvijenieto si i orientaciata si - plakati v
uchilishta i universiteti, skazki, klubove, i t.n., koieto prevrqshta i
normanite deca v pederasi.
Pederaslqkqt e antihumanen. Nikakvo mislene i nikakva logika ne mogat da
dokajat obratnoto. Iska mi se da viarvam, che bqlgarinqt shte zapazi
zdraviat si razum i niama da pozvoli da bqde izpederasten nikoga.
George.
--------- All opinions are my own, no company or org. ---------
--------- should be linked with what is stated here. ---------
George Georgiev geor...@generation.net
geog...@aircanada.ca
Dimitar Bojantchev
In article <320128...@mbox.digsys.bg>,
Ivan Marinov <max...@mbox.digsys.bg> wrote:
>> Ne mi se iska da viarvam, che bqlgarinqt moje da bqde
>>izlqgan i upoen dotam, che da dostigne tukashnoto nivo na bezrazlichie i
>>bezmozqchie, koeto pozvoliava pederasite da sa nai-uvajavanata chast ot
>>naselenieto i da sa povod Kanada da se gordee s tiah.
>
>dejstwa weche okolo
>200 godini bezpripqtsweno iz sweta. Sewerna Amerika kato che li e
>opitniqt poligon na Satanata
>za naj-urodliwite socialni experimenti... Nie trqbwa da se borim za
>wyrhowenstwoto na morala
>pred taka narechenite "choweshki prawa" i "demokraciq", samo po tozi
>nachin shte uspeem da
>sprem ili pone da zabawim globalnata satanizaciq na sweta. Trqbwat ni
>nowi lideri, koito da
>wyrnat obshtestwenoto mnenie kym morala. Za syzhalenie tezi lideri (kato
>naprimer A.
>Solzhenicin) biwat opljuwani ot wsqkyde... No towa ne trqbwa da ni
>smushtawa,
>propagandatorite na bezuslowniq moral i obektiwnite stojnosti nqma kak da
>ne bydat opljuwani
>ot predstawitelite na intelektualniq, religiozniq, politicheskiq i
>prakticheskiq satanizym.
Tra-la-la-la-la... :-)
Tova e kato onzi laf: "Bog da te pazi, Gospod da te ubie..." Aide, che
Satanata te goni da te uhape po zadnika...
Mitko
>Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
>---
>max...@mbox.digsys.bg
>mval...@sf.cit.bg
>i...@ibm.net
>---
>"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole,
>and separately, in each country, each government, each
>political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my
>life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society
>without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a
>society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
>of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
>---
>PGP Key Fingerprint = 9D 85 B7 63 7D 85 14 C1 4C 36 CB 5E 92 70 FE E3
>---
--
===============================================================================
Dimitar Bojantchev dim...@pontix.com or dim...@netcom.com
Pontix Consulting, Inc. http://www.pontix.com/
Personal Info http://www.pontix.com/dimitar
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
> Moje bi toi ne iska da hodi na zatochenie v Bg.
Zatochenie li e da zhiweesh w Bylgariq?
>, za da poluchi
> "anti-pedarastka zakalka". Ili kakto veche sqm kazvala, v Bg-jenite,
> gays, detstata niamat prava.
I "gays" i zheni i deca imat prawa. Kakwi prawa nqmat? Ti wse powtarqsh
edno i syshto, no ne dawash nikakwi fakti. Kakwi prawa nqmat w Bylgariq
zhenite, decata i homosexualistite???
> Jalkoto e, che povecheto bqlgari sled
> prodqljitelno prebivavne v chujbina prodqljavat da misliat po stariat
> homophobski nachin za sqjalenie:-(
"Homofobiq" e izmislen termin, kojto nqma smisyl.
> V America puk jiveiat v nai-hubavite chasti na naselenite mesta.
> Povecheto sa dosta obrazovani i inteligentni hora.
Towa che sa obrazowani ne oznachawa nishto. Az poznawam dosta obrazowani,
inteligenti hora, imashti rak.
> Na vas vi lipstva zdrav razum dokolkoto zabeliazvam. Ne namiram nishto
> humanno v tova, koeto ste napisali...
ZAshto obizhdash choweka? Nishto tolkowa losho ne e kazal. Toj prosto se
opitwa da se prebori sys sataninskite qwleniq, towa losho li e?
--
Ivan Marinov
George Georgiev <geor...@generation.net> wrote:
>Ako ne se lqja, homoseksualizmqt (pederastlqkqt, da si go kajem po
>nashenski) e zabranen sqs zakon pri nas, pone taka beshe predi pet godini,
>kogato biah tam.
Ne e zabraneno mezhdu pylnoletni. A spored men i nqma prichina za takawa
zabrana, tyj kato
bolestite ne mogat da bydat lekuwani s zabrani, a samo s razwitieto na
medicinata. Za syzhalenie
w momenta swetownite homosexualni "dwizheniq" spirat wsqcheski razwitieto
na medicinskata
nauka w tazi nasoka. Po tozi nachin tezi dwizheniq na praktika narushawat
interesite na
sobstwenite si chlenowe, i te sa nishto drugo ot instrument na Satanata,
nasochen sreshtu
chowechestwoto.
> Ne mi se iska da viarvam, che bqlgarinqt moje da bqde
>izlqgan i upoen dotam, che da dostigne tukashnoto nivo na bezrazlichie i
>bezmozqchie, koeto pozvoliava pederasite da sa nai-uvajavanata chast ot
>naselenieto i da sa povod Kanada da se gordee s tiah.
Da, za syzhalenie mashinata na Satanata za preobryshtane na normalniq red
dejstwa weche okolo
200 godini bezpripqtsweno iz sweta. Sewerna Amerika kato che li e
opitniqt poligon na Satanata
za naj-urodliwite socialni experimenti... Nie trqbwa da se borim za
wyrhowenstwoto na morala
pred taka narechenite "choweshki prawa" i "demokraciq", samo po tozi
nachin shte uspeem da
sprem ili pone da zabawim globalnata satanizaciq na sweta. Trqbwat ni
nowi lideri, koito da
wyrnat obshtestwenoto mnenie kym morala. Za syzhalenie tezi lideri (kato
naprimer A.
Solzhenicin) biwat opljuwani ot wsqkyde... No towa ne trqbwa da ni
smushtawa,
propagandatorite na bezuslowniq moral i obektiwnite stojnosti nqma kak da
ne bydat opljuwani
ot predstawitelite na intelektualniq, religiozniq, politicheskiq i
prakticheskiq satanizym.
>Bqlgarinqt po
>rojdenie e buden i zdravomislesht, a i za shtastie amerikanskata mashina
>za mozqkopromivane ne vqrvi pri nas (kakto i vqobshte v Evropa).
Za syzhalenie ne si praw. Promiwaneto na mozycite wyrwi s pylna sila w
Bylgariq... Satanistite se
opitwat da obsebqt cqloto duhowno prostranstwo. I SDS i BSP sklanqt glawi
pred finansowo
mogyshti satanistki organizacii, kato naprimer masonskata destruktiwna
grupirowka 'Otworeno
obshtestwo'. W momenta naprimer Otworeno obshtestwo pod prikritieto na
'podpomagane' se
opitwa da izzeme funkciite na bylgarskoto ministerstwo pri izgotwqneto na
uchebnici za nachalni i
sredni uchilishta.
A znesh li, che naprimer ima masonska zapowed za kmet na Sofiq da byde
izbran samo mason?
Wsichkite sofijski kmetowe ot 10 noemwri natatyk sa bili masoni!
(Biwshiqt kmet Qnchulew
dazhe WINAGI si nosil znachkata na rewera si, segashniqt e
po-predpazliw...) Na minalite izbori i
dwamata glawni kandidati sa bili masoni! (Kojto i da specheli, wse edno
za "organizaciqta"...) A
kakto znaesh, masonskoto dwizhenie e edno ot posledowatelnite nositeli na
liberalizma w sweta.
No promiwaneto na mozycite stawa ne samo chrez masonite. Satanata nikoga
ne zalaga na edno
edinstweno dwizhenie. Ako bqha samo masonite, shtqhme nabyrzo da se
sprawim s tqh... :-) No
za syzhalenie stotici organizacii poprawqt pytq na Satanata.
>Az izprashtam naskoro sinqt mi da uchi edna godina v Bqlgaria, i edna ot
>celite mi e da poluchi zdrava anti-pderaska imunizacia, koiato tuk shte mi
>e po-trudno da mu predam, sled kato v uchilishte gi uchat, che niama
>nishto losho v tova da si homoseksualen i che tova si e v redqt na
>neshtata.
Pobyrzaj! Wse oshte satanistite ne smeqt otkrito da propagandirat
naj-urodliwite si idei (kato
naprimer rawenstwo na "sexualnite orientacii"), no skoro i towa shte se
promeni. Sled desetina
godina sigurno weche i tuk shte promiwat mozycite na newinnite deca s
pylnocenna liberalna
pomiq.
> - Vsiaka godina v Montreal se provejda 'parad na gordostta' na
>pederasite, koito m/u drugoto e zled dva-tri dni za tazi godina.
Predi nqkolko meseca imashe takawa proqwa w Berlin. Chetoh interwju po
tozi powod s
rimokatolichesiq arhiepiskop na Berlin. Toj bukwalno kaza "satanistskata
paplach okupira grada
za nqkolko dni".
> - Izkazvane sreshtu pederast na parlamentaren clen na partia
>oznachava avtomatichnoto mu izgonvane ot pariata mu - imashe dva sluchaia
>tazi prolet.
Uzhas! A pyk az misleh, che Kanada wse pak e po-dobre ot SASHT w towa
otnoshenie. Zhalko
mi e za istinskite kanadci (imam predwid indiancite i osobeno eskimosite,
az sym golqm priqtel na
eskimoskiq narod)!
> - Tqi kato pederasite sa absoliutno legalni tuk nishto ne moje da
>im poprechi da populiarizirat dvijenieto si i orientaciata si - plakati v
>uchilishta i universiteti, skazki, klubove, i t.n., koieto prevrqshta i
>normanite deca v pederasi.
Tuk spored men greshish. Tazi propaganda ne celi prewryshtaneto na
normalnite deca w
homosexualsiti. Celta na tazi propaganda e mnogo po-kowarna: tq e
razlaganeto na
obshtestwoto, zatriwaneto na morala, likwidiraneto na obektiwnoto dobro i
zlo.
>Pederaslqkqt e antihumanen. Nikakvo mislene i nikakva logika ne mogat da
>dokajat obratnoto. Iska mi se da viarvam, che bqlgarinqt shte zapazi
>zdraviat si razum i niama da pozvoli da bqde izpederasten nikoga.
Mislq, che byrkash homosexualistite s homosexualnite dwizheniq.
Homosexualistite sa bolni hora,
i kato takiwa imat nuzhda ot systradanie, dokato dwizheniqtq im sa
instrument na Satanata.
Nqma smisyl da se borim sreshtu otdelnite homosexualisti. Po syshtiq
nachin kakto i nqma smisyl
da se borim sreshtu obiknoweniq zabluden mason, komunist, sektant ili
fashist - powecheto ot
tqh dazhe i podozirat w kakwo sa se zabyrkali...
George Georgiev
Blagodaria za otgovora gn. Marinov,
tuk prodqljavam diskusiata:
On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Ne e zabraneno mezhdu pylnoletni. A spored men i nqma prichina za takawa
> zabrana, tyj kato bolestite ne mogat da bydat lekuwani s zabrani, a
Lekarsvoto za tazi bolest e izmisleno mnogo otdavna: 'kolkoto pqti go
vidish, tolkova pqti go biesh' - po tozi nachin pomagash i na nego, i na
cialoto obshtestvo. Ako obshtestvoto e nastroeno protiv tazi bolest, tia
niama da sqshtestvuva. Izpederastiavaneto e edna ot vajnite stqpki kqm
razpadane na obshtestvoto kato takova - za primer moje da se vzeme
rimskata imperia.
Shte se opitam da definiram koi sa osnovnite cherti na pederast (lisbiika)
ot duhovna gledna tochka, molia koito iska da me dopqlni:
- Lipsa na doverie kqm sebe si i okolnite
- Dushevna i jiznena nestabilnost, v goliama chast proizlizashti
ot gornoto;
- Bezperspectivnost, nevqzmojnost da nadjivee sebe si, tqi kato
ne moje da ima deca;
- Kompleks za malocennost v mnogo ot sluchaite, tqi kato e
prenebregvan ot ostanalite;
- Izpadane v dolnite sloeve na obshtestvoto v podaviashtoto
mnoizinstvo na sluchaite - bolesti, spin, narkomania i t.n.
Ima i drugi elementi, razbira se, molia za dopqlnenie.
Kolkoto za zabranata: spored men ima smisql, i to kakqv: Ako edno
dvijenie ili orientacia e legalno, to negovite clenove imat pqlno
pravo da go populiarizirat, razvivat, propagandirat i t.n. V tukasnite
uchilishta stoiat plakati na dvama pregqrnati picha, pod koito pishe
"L'Avenir de l'Amerique" (bqdeshteto na Amerika) - i uchitelite
raziasniavat kakvo znachat, osobenno tia ot tiah, koito sa si pederasi.
> Za syzhalenie tezi lideri (kato naprimer A. Solzhenicin) biwat
> opljuwani ot wsqkyde...
Inteligentniat chovek vinagi i navsiakqde e mrazen - predpochitat se
trompetisti, i tova si e napqlno estestveno.
> Za syzhalenie ne si praw. Promiwaneto na mozycite wyrwi s pylna sila w
> Bylgariq...
E ne mi se viarava da e na tukashnoto nivo - tuk veche ne e ostanalo i
kakvo da se mie. Vqv Francia, dokolkoto si spomniam goliama chast ot
amerikanshtinata e zabranena sqs zakon, i s pravo - te imat kakvo da paziat.
> A znesh li, che naprimer ima masonska zapowed za kmet na Sofiq da byde
> izbran samo mason?
Kato che li lipsva logika tuk - ciganite shte izdadiat zapoved da se
izbere ciganin, komunistite - tehen, i t.n. Kqde e razlikata s masonite
ili koito i da e?
M/u drugoto Miterrand beshe mason a si ostana nesravnim politik i lichnost.
> > Az izprashtam naskoro sinqt mi da uchi edna godina v Bqlgaria, i edna
> > ot celite mi e da poluchi zdrava anti-pderaska imunizacia, koiato tuk
> > shte mi e po-trudno da mu predam, sled kato v uchilishte gi uchat, che
> > niama nishto losho v tova da si homoseksualen i che tova si e v redqt
> > na neshtata.
> Pobyrzaj! Wse oshte satanistite ne smeqt otkrito da
> propagandirat naj-urodliwite si idei (kato naprimer rawenstwo na
> "sexualnite orientacii"), no skoro i towa shte se promeni. Sled desetina
> godina sigurno weche i tuk shte promiwat mozycite na newinnite deca s
> pylnocenna liberalna pomiq.
!!! Interesuva me kakvo e obshtestvenoto nastroenie - vse oshte li e taka
antipederstko kakto beshe predi 5-10 godini? (Vsqshnost shte moga i sam
da go proveria - shte si idvam i az 2-3 sedmici)
Mersi za otgovora, George.
Ivan Marinov
George Georgiev (geor...@generation.net) wrote:
>Shte se opitam da definiram koi sa osnovnite cherti na pederast (lisbiika)
>ot duhovna gledna tochka, molia koito iska da me dopqlni:
> - Bezperspectivnost, nevqzmojnost da nadjivee sebe si, tqi kato
> ne moje da ima deca;
Za syzhalenie te mogat da imat deca. I towa e naj-loshoto. Dazhe sym
chuwal za
zagowornicicheski organizacii, koito urezhdat polowi kontakti mezhdu
lesbijki i homosexualisti s
cel syzdawane na deca - posle momichetata ot tezi wryzki otiwat pri
"semejswoto" na lesbijkata, a
momchetata pri "semejstwoto" na homosexualista. Az smqtam, che takiwa
deca trqbwa da bydat
otnemani ot roditeli homosexualisti i trqbwa da bydat dadeni na
osinowqwane bez da byde
iskano razreshenie ot roditelite. Onq den gledah predawane za
homosexualisti po mexikanskiq
kanal kojto hwashtam tuk po kabela w Sofiq, i naprawo se uzhasih. Edna
samozwana kubinska
"psiholozhka" ot Miami tam razprawqshe prostotii za "chudesni
homosexualni roditeli" i "uzhasni
heterosexualni roditeli - narkomani, kradci, ubijci, alkoholici, bashata
bie majkata, majkata bie
bashtata, dwamata zaedno biqt decata". Obsyzhdahme wyprosa s zhena mi, i
dojdohme do
izwoda, che naj-loshiqt heterosexualen bashta i naj-loshata
heterosexualna majka sa po-dobri ot
"naj-chudesnite" homosexualni "roditeli", tyj kato dori edin
heterosexualen narkoman biesht
cqloto si semejstwo ili edna heterosexulna narkomanka ili kurwa dawat
polow primer na decata,
dokato dori i naj-krotkiqt homosexualist e nesposoben na towa. Decata,
izrasnali w loshi, no wse
pak istinski (heterosexualni) semejstwa se pouchawat ot loshiq semeen
primer, i se nauchawat
kakwo e zlo i kakwo e dobro, makar i chrez otricatelni primeri. A decata
w homosexualnite
"semejstwa" izrastwat obyrkani, s izwrateni predstawi.
>Kolkoto za zabranata: spored men ima smisql, i to kakqv: Ako edno
>dvijenie ili orientacia e legalno, to negovite clenove imat pqlno
>pravo da go populiarizirat, razvivat, propagandirat i t.n. V tukasnite
>uchilishta stoiat plakati na dvama pregqrnati picha, pod koito pishe
>"L'Avenir de l'Amerique" (bqdeshteto na Amerika) - i uchitelite
>raziasniavat kakvo znachat, osobenno tia ot tiah, koito sa si pederasi.
Neshto ne se razbrahme. I az sym priwyrzhenik na zabranata ili pone
ogranichawaneto dejnostta
na homosexualnite "dwizheniq". Smqtam, che takiwa dwizheniq trqbwa da ima
(nali i gluhite i
slepite syshto si imat dwizheniq), no te trqbwa da si znaqt mqstoto - a
mqstoto im e w sybiraneto
na sredstwa za razwitieto na medicinskata nauka s cel izmislqne nowi i
efikasni lecheniq za
homosexualizym. No estestweno sym napylno protiw dwizheniq,
propagandirashti
homosexualizym, dwizheniq, iskashti "prawa" i "rawenstwo".
>> Za syzhalenie tezi lideri (kato naprimer A. Solzhenicin) biwat
>> opljuwani ot wsqkyde...
>Inteligentniat chovek vinagi i navsiakqde e mrazen - predpochitat se
>trompetisti, i tova si e napqlno estestveno.
Za syzhalenie w SASHT naprimer nqma realen izbor na prezident. Naprimer
sega i dwamata
glawni pretendenti sa s pochti ednakwi wizhdaniq. Wseki, kojto se opita
da se bori s liberalizma,
biwa opljuwan ot liberalnite medii. Sreshtu tezi hora liberalnite medii
izplzwat udari pod poqsa:
obqwqwat gi tu za fashisti, tu za komunisti, ili za religiozni fanatici,
i t. n. I w Bylgariq pochwat da
se nabljudawat podobni tendencii, cqlata wlast e zaeta ot liberalnata
koaliciqta BSP-SDS, i tazi
koaliciq ne dawa wyzmohnost za izqwa na opozicionni mneniq.
>M/u drugoto Miterrand beshe mason a si ostana nesravnim politik i lichnost.
Winagi ima izkljucheniq. No masonstwoto kato dwizhenie e izkljuchitelno
wredno ot glednata
tochka na interesite na chowechestwoto.
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
>>Zatochenie li e da zhiweesh w Bylgariq?
>A ti ne se li oplakvash neprekqsnato kolko e losho i skqpo i t.n.
>Edin poznat se zavqrna naskoro i zaiavi, che e "return from hell".
Znachi spored teb trqbwa ili da wyzhwalqwam wsichko bylgarsko ili da
pljuwam po wsichko?
Spored men ima i drugi wyzmozhnosti. Ti kak mislish? :-)
>>I "gays" i zheni i deca imat prawa. Kakwi prawa nqmat? Ti wse powtarqsh
>>edno i syshto, no ne dawash nikakwi fakti. Kakwi prawa nqmat w Bylgariq
>>zhenite, decata i homosexualistite???
>Ne povtariam edno i sqshto, kazvam istinata.
Kakwa istina?
>Tova ne e li ochevaden
>fact, za prenebregvane pravata na detstata - otnoshenieto na gospodina
>kqm sinqt mu.
Kakwo losho iska chowekyt? Kyde wizhdash loshoto mu otnoshenie kym sina
mu? Toj e bashta i
e otgoworen za wyzpitanieto na decata si. Kakwo losho ima tuk?
>Za da go predpazi ot " pederastkite" vliania, shte go
>prashta v Bg. Ami toi moje da se e rodil gay, taka che ne razbiram ot
>kakvo se opitva da go predpazi.
Ako se e rodil s genetichen defekt, towa ne oznachawa, che ne trqbwa da
nauchi, che toj e
BOLEN i negowata "orientaciq" e neprawilna. Toj - ako ima genetichen
defekt - weroqtno pak
shte byde homosexualist, no nqma da se prisyedinqwa kym razni
homosexualni "dwizheniq", shte
znae kakwo e moralno i kakwo ne e, i nqma da wika po cql den za wsqkakwi
izmisleni "prawa" i
"rawenstwo". Ako organizaciite na slepite bqha tolkowa zlobni, kakwito sa
homosexualnite
"dwizheniq", sega shtqme da imame demonstrirashti slepi po ploshtadi,
iskashti "rawenstwo". I
sega shtqme da imame - w imeto na "prawata", "rawenstwoto" i
"demokraciqta" - slepi,
pilotirashti samoleti, awtobusi, taxita, zastrashawashti prawata na
neslepite. Towa az naricham
nahalstwo, lipsa na moral i bezotgowornost. Mnogo e smeshno za wikash za
"prawa", kogato po
syshtoto wreme ti zastrashawash zhiwota na milioni normalni hora.
>Az bih go posqvetvala da pogovori s
>nego za sexualnata mu orientatsia, pqk sled tova da vzima takiva
>totalitarni merki.
1. Znachi liberalnata ideologiq obqwqwa dobroto za totalitarizym? Losha
rabota. Liberalizmyt
qwno ot den na den stawa wse po-nahalen. Qwno nqma da minem bez
drasrichni kontramerki...
Towa e problemyt na nas, normalnite hora, che wse ne mozhem da se
organizirame i da dadem
na nenormalnicite prawilen otgowor wednyzh i zawinagi... :-( Ako tihite i
skromni grazhdani se
nadignat pone wednyzh sreshtu izmetta, za 5 minuti wsichko shte si dojde
na mqstoto, i poweche
nqma da ima nikakwi krqkaniq za prawa i swobodi. No towa e druga tema.
2. Kato rodish dete, pitaj go iska li da ima 5 ili 4 prysta na lqwata si
ruka. Ako iska 4, wednaga
mu otrezhi edin pryst! Wednaga! Ako dori za malko se pokolebaesh, znachi
si bigot,
netoleranten, i po princip bokluk :-) Razberi weche, che wsqko wyzpitanie
i wskqkakwi tradicii sa
anti-liberalen bokluk, fanatizym i netolerantnost, prechesti na
chowechestwoto po pytq kym
pylnata swoboda :-))))))))))))))))))
Dori twoite hora da zawzemat napylno wlastta, az nqma da se primirq. Ako
uspeete da
ustanowite now otkrit totalitarizym (washiqt opit ot 1917 godina
propadna), nie shte se borim.
No az ne wi pozhelawam tozi den, zashtoto togawa borbata weche nqma da se
wodi s dumi, a s
aktiwna syprotiwa. Zashtoto Isus ni zadylzhawa da se borim za da
zashtitim wqrata si. A ne se li
pitash zashto twoite hora oshte ne sa preminali kym otkrit teror?
Zashtoto te shte zagubqt dazhe
i golqma chast ot sobstwenite si priwyrzhenicite, na koito ochite shte
im se otworqt kato widqt
istinskata wylcha mutra na liberalizma.
>>"Homofobiq" e izmislen termin, kojto nqma smisyl.
>Tvoite termini sa izmislitsti i niamat smisql.
Naprimer?
>Da ne govorim, che niamash nikakvi podrqjnitsi i glasuvash
>sam za sebe si:-).
1. 90 % ot chowechestwoto e s nas.
2. Az ne sym partiq, taka che nikoj ne e mogyl da glasuwa za men.
>A ti ot kakvo si bolen, che ne si hodil v kazarma?
>Ot tova, che ne mojesh da spresh da iadesh li?
1. Dokolkoto znam debelinata ne e prichina da ne hodish wojnik.
2. Ako naistina se interesuwash kakwa mi e bolestta, pishi mi lichen
mail, i shte ti go kazha, che
tuk mi e neudobno da razprawqm lichni problemi, dobre li?
>Ne go obijdam, toi obijda i napada hora, koito nishto ne sa mu
>napravili. Az bih go posqvetvala da spre da si gubi vremeto attacking
>other people, instead develop himself into compassionate man who cares
>about life & people.
Toj ne e napadal nikogo w postinga mu. ZAshtita na normalnoto i dobroto
napadenie li e?
Znachi i az sym golqm agresor, nali? :-)
Alex Yordanov
On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, George Georgiev wrote:
> Ako ne se lqja, homoseksualizmqt (pederastlqkqt, da si go kajem po
> nashenski) e zabranen sqs zakon pri nas, pone taka beshe predi pet godini,
> kogato biah tam. Ne mi se iska da viarvam, che bqlgarinqt moje da bqde
No. Homosexuality has been legal in Bulgaria since 1969 and it will never
be illegal unless Bulgaria decides to abondon its membership in the
European Union.
> izlqgan i upoen dotam, che da dostigne tukashnoto nivo na bezrazlichie i
> bezmozqchie, koeto pozvoliava pederasite da sa nai-uvajavanata chast ot
> naselenieto i da sa povod Kanada da se gordee s tiah. Bqlgarinqt po
> rojdenie e buden i zdravomislesht, a i za shtastie amerikanskata mashina
> za mozqkopromivane ne vqrvi pri nas (kakto i vqobshte v Evropa).
Az pul mislya, che bulgarinut po rojdenie e grub i netoleranten. Gay
rights nyama nisto obsto s promivane na mozuci. Strana, v koyato gayovete
sa presl;edvani nikoga nyama da bude prieta za chlen na Evropeiskata
obstnost. Tochka.
> Az izprashtam naskoro sinqt mi da uchi edna godina v Bqlgaria, i edna ot
> celite mi e da poluchi zdrava anti-pderaska imunizacia, koiato tuk shte mi
> e po-trudno da mu predam, sled kato v uchilishte gi uchat, che niama
> nishto losho v tova da si homoseksualen i che tova si e v redqt na
> neshtata.
Zabravi tova. Bulgaria mozhe da se promenya bavno, no ste se promenya.
Ako sinut ti e roden s geni, predrazpolagasti homosexuality, obuchenieto
mu v "anti-pederastka imunizacia" mozhe samo da go depresira i da go
nakara da se samoubie ( 1/3 ot vsichki teenage sucides sa gays and
lesbians ).
Alex
Bernd Dworniczak
gkar...@idirect.com (karadjov) wrote:
>So, Dedo Pop is telling us that the best society ever to be found have
>been in Germany - 1934-1945, Eastern Europe - 1945-49, USSR 1917-1990,
>Medival Spain under the incvisition, the wich burning puritans on the
------- ----------- ---- ???(of)
new
>world -17th-18th century, and some other such examples!
>
>I have only one thing to say - nice choice Dedo Pope!!!!
>
>Georgi Karadjov
I have one thing to say as well, you've understood nothing! Which is not
surprising at all, seeing the demonstration of your intellectual
abilities in the above quoted text. And take a tip from an ex-KGB agent:
first get your spelling, before writing. Stupidity can be confusing even
without beeing uggly. For your convenience, I have underlined the
misspelled words. BTW, does "Dedo Pope" smell on some contempt, or is it
an evidence for deeply rooted communist tradition, as my good friend
Chugun2 would suspect? And finally, get your head out of your butt and
start thinking before writing! (Chukcha nie chitatel, on pisatel ...)
FLAMETHROWER OFF.
-kgb*cia 4ever!
Ivan Marinov
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
Kakwa istina?
Naprimer?
--
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Alexander Yordanov
On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, George Georgiev wrote:
> Lekarsvoto za tazi bolest e izmisleno mnogo otdavna: 'kolkoto pqti go
> vidish, tolkova pqti go biesh' - po tozi nachin pomagash i na nego, i na
> cialoto obshtestvo. Ako obshtestvoto e nastroeno protiv tazi bolest, tia
Lekarstvoto za takiva kato tebe, George, e izmisleno mnogo otdavna - zatvor
ili smurtna prisuda, v zavisimost ot tezhestta na prestuplenieto.
> niama da sqshtestvuva. Izpederastiavaneto e edna ot vajnite stqpki kqm
> razpadane na obshtestvoto kato takova - za primer moje da se vzeme
> rimskata imperia.
Drun-drun-erina. De go chukash, de se puka. Ami te rimlyanite sa obichali
i mnogo da si piivat, ta dali Rimskata imperiya ne se e razpadnala ot
pieneto, a?
> - Dushevna i jiznena nestabilnost, v goliama chast proizlizashti
> ot gornoto;
Tova, che tvoyata dushevna prostota i prostotiya sa tolkova stabilni i
nepoklatimi, ne te pravyat nito po-interesen, nito po-priyaten za
ostanalite. :-)
> - Bezperspectivnost, nevqzmojnost da nadjivee sebe si, tqi kato
> ne moje da ima deca;
Oste edin padast ot nebeto. Koi te izluga, che gayovete ne mogat da imat
deca? Povecheto ot tezi, koito poznavam, imat sobsveni deca. Drugi si
osinovyavat, a treti naistina nyamat, no ne zastoto ne mogat, a zastoto
ne iskat.
> - Kompleks za malocennost v
mnogo ot sluchaite, tqi kato e > prenebregvan ot ostanalite;
Na gayovete im e prez onazi rabota dali takiva kato tebe gi prenebregvat
ili ne. Ima dostatuchno dobri hora, koito gi ocenyavat i uvazhavat
takiva, kakvito sa.
> - Izpadane v dolnite sloeve na obshtestvoto v podaviashtoto
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??????
> mnoizinstvo na sluchaite - bolesti, spin, narkomania i t.n.
Da ne imash vpredvid K.G.Lang, Martina Navratilova, Craig Louganis,
gubernatorut na Massachusets, John Lennon i dr.(da ne izbroyavam oste imena).
A da ne ti kazvam, che v dolnite sloeve na obstestvoto heterosexualni si
ima kolkoto si stesh.
> !!! Interesuva me kakvo e obshtestvenoto nastroenie - vse oshte li e taka
> antipederstko kakto beshe predi 5-10 godini? (Vsqshnost shte moga i sam
> da go proveria - shte si idvam i az 2-3 sedmici)
Ne. Ne e kakvoto e bilo i nyama i da bude. Naprotiv, ste se podobryava.
Bulgaria burvi kum Evropa, makar i bavno. Ste tryabva da pratish sina si
nyakude drugade. Naprimer v Iran ili Iraq. Tam ste go vuzpitat po tvoi vkus.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>Drun-drun-erina. De go chukash, de se puka. Ami te rimlyanite sa
>obichali
>i mnogo da si piivat, ta dali Rimskata imperiya ne se e razpadnala ot
>pieneto, a?
Ne sym syglasen s nito edin ot dwamata. Rimskata imperiq se e razpadnala
poradi moralniq
upadyk. Tozi moralen upadyk se e izrazqwal w sto neshta. Priemaneto na
homosexualizma kato
neshto normalno e bilo samo edno ot tezi sto neshta. Nito edno obshestwo
nqma da se razpadne
samo zaradi priemaneto na homosexualizma za normalno qwlenie. No
priemaneto na
homsexualizma za neshto estestweno i normalno ne e wyzmozhno w edno
normalno obshtestwo,
to winagi wyrwi zaedno s mnogo drugi porochni qwleniq.
Ivan Marinov
Siya Stoianova wrote:
> Mislia, na koito mu haresva da vqzhvaliava, na koito ne da kritikuva.
> Togava shte ima balans.
Mozhe bi sym mnogo glupaw, no ne razbiram towa izrechenie.
> Chte tezi members of the society niamat prava.
Naprimer kakwi nqmat? Az smqtam, che te imat.
> Detsata triabva da bqdat ucheni na nezavisimost, a ne na obedience.
Towa ne oznachawa da ne gi wyzpitawame za towa kakwo e dobroto i kakwo e
zloto. Kato im kazhem naprawo istinata, towa shte gi predpazi ot izlishni
greshki.
> Tova e edna ot porednite ti bezmislitsi. Chudia se - koga li shte
> poumneesh?
Nikoga :-)
> Ti vqobshte ne si normalen. Izviniavai, no ako niakoi namira neshto
> normalno v shturotiite deto pishesh, tolkoz po-zle za nego.
Da si antiliberal znachi li da si nenormalen? Towa mi prilicha na
sywetskata praktika: kojto ne e syglasen s politikata na partiq, toj e
lud, i se zatwarq w ludnica.
> >Dori twoite hora da zawzemat napylno wlastta, az nqma da se primirq. >
>Ako
> >uspeete da
> >ustanowite now otkrit totalitarizym (washiqt opit ot 1917 godina
> >propadna), nie shte se borim.
> >No az ne wi pozhelawam tozi den, zashtoto togawa borbata weche nqma da
> >se
> >wodi s dumi, a s
> >aktiwna syprotiwa.
> I kakva shte e tazi sqprotiva?
Wse shte izmislim neshto. Ima mnogo nachini za syprotiwa bez nasilie.
Shte chupim, shte troshim dyrzhawnoto imushestwo, shte falshificirame
kreditni karti, chekowe, banknoti, nqma da prashtame decata na
uchilishte, shte dawame falshiwi zaqwleniq, shte blokirame kompjutrite i
telefonite. Shte syzdadem pylen haos, i totalitarnata liberalna dyrzhawa
prosto shte zagine. No mozhe da izmislim i neshto po-smisleno. NAprimer
shte wzemem primer ot Gandhi. WSe oshte ne e nastypil liberalniqt
totalitarizym, taka che tazi tema oshte ne e aktualna.
> Ako si napravish trudqt da si prochetesh proizvedeniata shte vidish za
> kakvo ti govoria. Ne vijdam nishto smisleno v tova koeto pishesh.
Ne wizhdash, zashtoto si predubedena liberalka. Kakwoto i da ti kazha, ti
wse kazwash edno i syshto...
> Az govoria za horata, koito se nasilvat da chetat pisaniata ti. Kolko
> li ot tiah sa sqglasni s vqzgledite i ideite ti.
Nqmam naj-malka predstawa. No dosta hora sa mi izrazqwali podkrepa.
> Ako ti obobshtavash tova, koeto misliat tvoite" normalni" hora,
> prosto niamam dumi.
Ne te razbiram kak mozhesh da hareswash liberalniq stroj!
> Dobre pishi mi lichen mail, ako e dostatqcho uvajitelno, az shte ti se
> izvinia. No predpolagam, che niama da ti e priatno ako niakoi
> neprekqsnato te naricha sick...
Kato sym bolen, znachi sym bolen, i nqma da e obida towa za men.
> Ti nito si normalen, nito dobqr. Ne si lichi nito ot tova koeto
> pishesh, nito ot postqpkite ti.
Trudno mi e da precenq sebe si, no 99 % sym ubeden, che sym normalen.
Bernd Dworniczak
drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
[ ]
whatever she wrote, it is just an expression of a very weak reasoning,
cheap haggling combined with intellectual impotence and nastiness
towards those who have demonstrated their abilities to think in a
qualitative and constructive manner.
i just wonder what is this "person", the mere expression of MEDIOCRITY,
doing in the us of a. why didn't she stop for some rest at some seat of
the bulgarian parliament or take a vacation in albania? i just have the
intuitive notion, same as my good chugunen friend would propose that
this multi... blah-blah sad ass liberal bulls..t has a deeply rooted
communist flavor to it.
she and her husband are relatively new to the net. she's too old
(apparently) to go to college, her english writing or spelling abilities
do not suggest a graduate level student or a doctoral fellow. most
pitiful would be if she's somebody with the bulgarian embassy. this
option is very likely, having in mind the level of incompetence of the
current videnov government. if anything else, it should be just
communist moneys that made it possible for her to scribble on the net.
whatever it is however, just take my 2 c. worth on the subject "gay
blah-blah siya stoyanova defender":
DO NOT BOTHER HER. SHE DOES NOT DESERVE YOUR ATTENTION.
-that's the best way to show the mediocre that their role in the society
should be proportional to whatever is possible to come out of their
tight sitting parts and not to the big chunk they try to bite on.
kgb*cia 4ever
Ivan Marinov
drs...@interaccess.com (Dimitre Stoianov) wrote:
>Iskam da kaja democratsia. Prava i vqzmojnosti equal for all.
Towa go ima. W Bylgariq nqma zakonowi prechki za ednakwi prawa i
wyzmozhnosti. Ima drugi
prechki, no tqh gi ima i w drugi dyrzhawi.
>Balance-to be equal.
Towa pyk kakwo oznachawa? Imam nqkakwo smytno tqgostno chuwstwo za towa
kakwo mozhe
da e towa, no pyrwo wse pak iskam da te popitam teb.
>>> Chte tezi members of the society niamat prava.
>>Naprimer kakwi nqmat? Az smqtam, che te imat.
>Shtom ti taka smiatash... Za men niamat.
Tuk se poluchawa naistina interesna "diskusiq" :-) Ti si super
predubedena. Sama ne znaesh
kakwi prawa im lipswat na homosexualistite, zhenite i decata, ti znesh
samo edno: che "te nqmat
nikakwi prawa" :-))) Qwno, che ti samata ne si useshtala "pylnata
bezprawnost na zhenite i
decata w Bylgariq", zashtoto togawa pone shteshe da imash nqkakwi
spomeni, tyj kato si bila
dete, i syshto taka si bila postoqnno zhiwushta w Bylgariq. Kak taka
nqmash nikakwi spomeni za
swoeto bezprawno polozhneie? Na men mi se struwa, che ti pokrepqsh
chuzhdi stremezhi, bez da
znesh dali tezi stremezhi sa istinski ili ne.
>Nai-vajnata strana ot vqzpitanieto e stimuliraneto na detstata da
>vzimat decisions. Resheniata, koito te vzimat sa chesto unwise, no
>tova e edinstveniat nachin po koito shte imat vqzmojnost da
>sqpostaviat consequence of good decision with the consequence of a bad
>decision.
I az sym priwyrzhenik na swobodata, no moralnoto wyzpitanie ne e protiwno
na swobodata.
Zashto da otnemem ot decata wyzmozhnostta da se pouchat ot hilqdoletniq
opit na predishnite
pokoleniq?
>Detsata se nauchavat da bqdat istinski responsible edinstveno, kogato
>imat vqzmojnost da vzimat reshenia za sebe si.
Po princip sym syglasen, no mi se struwa, che ti dowezhdash neshtata do
krajnost.
>>Da si antiliberal znachi li da si nenormalen? Towa mi prilicha na
>>sywetskata praktika: kojto ne e syglasen s politikata na partiq, toj e
>>lud, i se zatwarq w ludnica.
>Az nikoga ne sqm te zadqljavala da bqdesh sqglasen s men.
Da, no smqtash, che moqta poziciq e neshto smeshno i neriosno. Nali
liberalite uzh uwazhawali
chuzhdoto mnenie?
>Ti narichash drugite, koito misliat po-razlichno ot teb nenormalni i
>iskash da bqdat zatvoreni v bolnitsi.
Ne e taka. Az naricham nenormalnoto powedenie nenormalno, zashtoto ne
iskam da kriq
mnenieto si. No horata, koito ne sa syglasni s men, ne gi smqtam za
nenormalni. Tqh gi smqtam
prosto za zabludeni. A zabluzhdenieto ne e bolest, to ne se lekuwa w
bolnica.
>Kakqv e primerqt na Gandhi?
Pasiwna syprotiwa bez nasilie.
>Az nikoga ne sqm jiviala v liberalen stroi. Kak moje da haresvam
>neshto, ot koeto niamam experience.
Togawa zashto podkrepqsh tolkowa qrostno liberalnata ideologiq?
>Samo ne razbrah ot kakvo si bolen, no ako se pritesniavash da
>obsqjdash problemite si, az niama da te forciram.
Ne si li poluchila lichniq mi mail? Tam opisah bolestta si podrobno.
>Vseki e ubeden, che e 99% normalen. Ako za bqlgarskoto obshtestvo i
>sreda si normalen, pri drugi obstoiatelstva moje i da ne si.
>Mnogo hora smiatat, che bulg. obshtestvo v momentqt e "bolno".
Znachi az sym bolen chowek, tipichen za edno bolno obshtestwo, taka li?
Alexander Yordanov
On 6 Aug 1996, Bernd Dworniczak wrote:
> drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>
>
> [ ]
>
> whatever she wrote, it is just an expression of a very weak reasoning,
> cheap haggling combined with intellectual impotence and nastiness
> towards those who have demonstrated their abilities to think in a
> qualitative and constructive manner.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who is thinking in a qualitative and constructive manner? Ivan Marinov?
Give me a break!
> i just wonder what is this "person", the mere expression of MEDIOCRITY,
> doing in the us of a. why didn't she stop for some rest at some seat of
> the bulgarian parliament or take a vacation in albania? i just have the
One more lost individual who is seeing communist ghosts everywhere...
What does our discussion to do anything with communism? I think that you
are mediocre, since there are no other colors in the world for you but
red and blue.
> intuitive notion, same as my good chugunen friend would propose that
> this multi... blah-blah sad ass liberal bulls..t has a deeply rooted
> communist flavor to it.
Communism and liberalism have nothing in common. Only mentaly retarded
creatures can mix those two terms together. Since when are the communsits
liberalists?
> she and her husband are relatively new to the net. she's too old
> (apparently) to go to college, her english writing or spelling abilities
> do not suggest a graduate level student or a doctoral fellow. most
> pitiful would be if she's somebody with the bulgarian embassy. this
> option is very likely, having in mind the level of incompetence of the
> current videnov government. if anything else, it should be just
> communist moneys that made it possible for her to scribble on the net.
Let not forget that Einstein's English was not perfect either. Anyway,
English is a second language for all of us. Personally, for me it has
been always more important what the person is trying to say, and not how
he/she is saying it. For some people the packing is more important than
the content... And they call the others "mediocre"... Why am I not
surprised!
IMWO, Siya's English is better than yours.
> whatever it is however, just take my 2 c. worth on the subject "gay
> blah-blah siya stoyanova defender":
What's so wrong with being a "gay defender"? While there are ruthless
people who are ready to step on the face of anyone who is different than
them, there will be people like us who will defend anybody's personal
freedom and right of dignity.
> > DO NOT BOTHER HER. SHE DOES NOT DESERVE
YOUR ATTENTION. >
> -that's the best way to show the mediocre that their role in the society
> should be proportional to whatever is possible to come out of their
> tight sitting parts and not to the big chunk they try to bite on.
>
You don't make any sense.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> Communism and liberalism have nothing in common. Only mentaly retarded
> creatures can mix those two terms together. Since when are the
> communsits
> liberalists?
You are absolutely wrong! All communists are liberals. Communism is
simply a more radical form of liberalism. Traditional liberalism has two
offsprings: modern liberalism and socialism, and socialism has three more
offspings: socilademocracy, fascism, and communism. So traditional
libreralism is the grandfather of communism. Lenin is nothing more than
the logical end of the French Revolution's philosophy.
karadjov
: [ ]
: whatever she wrote, it is just an expression of a very weak reasoning,
: cheap haggling combined with intellectual impotence and nastiness
: towards those who have demonstrated their abilities to think in a
: qualitative and constructive manner.
Interesting - you just painted a selfportret here! Why is that so?
If you can answer yourselfe, the rest of your scriptures will make you
blush!
Georgi Karadjov
: i just wonder what is this "person", the mere expression of MEDIOCRITY,
: doing in the us of a. why didn't she stop for some rest at some seat of
: the bulgarian parliament or take a vacation in albania? i just have the
: intuitive notion, same as my good chugunen friend would propose that
: this multi... blah-blah sad ass liberal bulls..t has a deeply rooted
: communist flavor to it.
: she and her husband are relatively new to the net. she's too old
: (apparently) to go to college, her english writing or spelling abilities
: do not suggest a graduate level student or a doctoral fellow. most
: pitiful would be if she's somebody with the bulgarian embassy. this
: option is very likely, having in mind the level of incompetence of the
: current videnov government. if anything else, it should be just
: communist moneys that made it possible for her to scribble on the net.
: whatever it is however, just take my 2 c. worth on the subject "gay
: blah-blah siya stoyanova defender":
: DO NOT BOTHER HER. SHE DOES NOT DESERVE YOUR ATTENTION.
: -that's the best way to show the mediocre that their role in the society
: should be proportional to whatever is possible to come out of their
: tight sitting parts and not to the big chunk they try to bite on.
: kgb*cia 4ever
:
:
----------------------------------------------------------------
: Stop on by the Internet TeleCafe! telnet://telecafe.com:9000 :
----------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Dworniczak
drs...@interaccess.com (Siya Stoianova) wrote:
>"Bernd Dworniczak" <dwo...@uni-muenster.de> [or some Balkan a..hole
>who will not sign his name] wrote:
the Balkan "a..hole" has many names and most of the netters at scb know
him. no need to sign. if i sign under every internet address i have
access from dear, it would be too bohring. Comprende?
BTW, the only reason he decided to respond to your personal offences
[again] is to correct some deeply mistaken and wrongful positions,
obviously fruits of your pitiful mental efforts.
>I suggest you take your shitty Diploma and stick it someplace where
>the sun never shines. I have something more valuable - in 2 years time
>I'll become citizen of the world :-P
Greetings! The a..hole is already a citizen but not of your world.
Please, do not forget that the us of a. is NOT the world. And u can stay
in your stinking Chicago or wherever, as much as u want and NEVER (or at
least in 2 years time, maybe even more :-) get the chance to go
someplace else. As for my Diploma, it's earned with hard work and it is
accepted even in your MEDIOCRE world.
>Let me remind you that nobody will let you stay in Germany.
How sorry I am to correct another of your mistakes. The "nobody" already
let my stay where I am. Satisfied?
>Apparently you are too old to come and try here in America (even
>though you desperately want to) as we did 41/2 years ago.
Mistake again. The a..hole lived in "America", actually in the us of a.,
where u live now, for nearly 4 yrs. But he CHOSE not to live there more.
He was terrified by the fact (among other things) that communism and gay
pride become leading issues in this country!
>But we made it, dear! You are the one who is going back to our
>fatherland, that's the place where they will appreciate your high IQ
>and professionalism. I wish you luck! You deserve it!
If I go back or not, this thought really does not bother me at all in
the moment. I see that u are very much concerned 'bout that and with the
typical, shall I say balkan Ganyo pride (similar to the gay pride in
some aspects) wish to convince somebody (maybe yourself) that u "made
it". And where is this "making" taking place - in some slummy suburbs,
where the liberal thought takes unknown hights of spirit and imagination
:-) ? Believe me, I know really some people who made it in the states.
They do not think or write like u do.
As for the luck, thanx alot. I know what I deserve and more or less I
have it. How 'bout u? Don't u feel UNDERappreciated at times? I really
wish u not only luck, but ENLIGHTMENT as well. Because without it, pure
luck is like throwing pearls to a swine.
>Big mistake Mister! Money has no plural :-). When you're picking on
>my spelling at least try to show perfect English. Otherwise you are
>making fun of something you're are not very good at. Or shall we
>suspect that "money" is not a subject you know much about? As they say
>here in the US of A "if you're so clever why aren't you rich?"
I speak the way people talk. I do not have a claim on the subject of
literature-correct or politically correct English. But the worse for u,
if for 4.5 yrs. in the states u haven't learn that "moneys" is the
contemptful connotation of "money". And OK, maybe I'm not rich but I
have what I need and I am happy with it. Let's say it's more than u can
ever earn in your lifetime. It is not communist moneys, BTW :-)
>I'll defend and write whatever is my wish. And stop hiding behind this
>fake name (or am I writing to Dr. Barbara)? Are you afraid of me or
>what?
Afraid of u? God bless. May the One in heavens deliver more brain
substance for u. I will write under whichever name I wish cuz I have the
freedom to do so. We already conversed on this matter. For u it is
enough to know that u're responding to an ex-KGB agent :-)
>From now on only young women (28 is too old for the moderator of this
>group) with at least doctoral degree, perfect English and preferably
>without husbands are allowed to post in this highly intellectual
>newsgroup :-)
This is a very good suggestion. In this way scb will become at least
more interesting :-) BTW, I do not have anything agst. your age,
appearance or your husband. May u two live long and have many children!
The only problem here is your ability, shall we say UNABILITY to think!
>You'd have to be pretty pathetic spewing this nonsense just to get the
>attention you so desperately desire. (That's also typical of the scb
>moderators).
I get the attention I desire, dear. Even the undesired. Take ur
attention for example. As for the moderators, greetings to them.
-kgb*cia 4ever
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> Besides, Siya's point
> was that once you obtain an American passport, the world is yours in
> terms of free travel.
This is not true. The US passport is not a very good passport, because it
requires entry visa for travel to many countries.
Alexander Yordanov
On 8 Aug 1996, Bernd Dworniczak wrote:
> Greetings! The a..hole is already a citizen but not of your world.
> Please, do not forget that the us of a. is NOT the world. And u can stay
Are you saying that Germany is the world, perhaps? Besides, Siya's point
was that once you obtain an American passport, the world is yours in
terms of free travel.
> someplace else. As for my Diploma, it's earned with hard work and it is
> accepted even in your MEDIOCRE world.
The "mediocre world" that you talk about is still responsible for more
than a half of all scientific discoveries and innovations in the world.
> Mistake again. The a..hole lived in "America", actually in the us of a.,
> where u live now, for nearly 4 yrs. But he CHOSE not to live there more.
> He was terrified by the fact (among other things) that communism and gay
> pride become leading issues in this country!
One more lost individual who despises in others what he finds deeply burried
within himself! ( See my post "Gay haters - a new study" ). Europe is much,
much ahead in terms of gay pride, dear. Go and read the law of the EU
that I posted recently - in your sweet mother Germany gay marriages will
be something that you will have to swallow only within a couple of
years.
As far as communism is concerned - you see much more of that in Europe than
in the U.S.
And one more thing - anybody has the right to be proud of him/herself the
way they are, wherever they are. Having a Ph.D. diploma does not make you
an intelligent person. Smart, clever, capable, may be you are. But nothing
else. And don't forget that one day you will stink like all of us will -
be respectfull to other people.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Slavey Tolev wrote:
> I ma sorry to inform you but the wrong one in this case is you,
> Mr. Marinov. You are obviously mixing two different definitions of
> political schools. You are using the American term Liberal or also
> known
> to the General Public as Heart-BLeeding Liberal which has nothing or
> very
> little to do with the Classical term Liberal or also known as the
> European term Liberal. The American equivalent of the European Liberal
> will be Libertarian. What modern Liberals around the world stand for is
> limited involvement of any form of government in peoples' lives. That
> means free trade, lower taxes, no import-export quotas and so on.
> Another
> thing that Liberals are known for is their support for social freedom.
> That means that Liberals support peoples' choices to be whatever they
> want to be: homosexual, have abortions and so on as long it is their
> will
> and it does not hurt others directly.
>
> Always up for more explanation. I mean that's what I pay
> tuition for.
> Slaveycho
Dear Mr. Slavejcho,
Thanks for the explanation.
But I don't agree with you. I know that there's a difference between the
American and the European usage of the term 'liberal', but I see little
difference between the two usages. I was talking about liberalism as a
philosophical category, not as an economical term.
I'm against any kind of liberalism, European or American. I simply don't
agree with the basic axiomes of liberalism.
I understand your position. Your postion is logical, IF we accept the
basic axiomes of liberalism. But I don't accept those axiomes.
I think that we need eternal axiomes, established by God forever, and we
don't need temporary human axiomes. There's no "choice", I think, that a
normal healthy society cannot allow this choice, beacuse this choice
would lead to radicalist totaliatarianism. I think that an unlimited
possibility of choice will lead to a corrupt and unhuman society.
Sometimes health and goodness are more important than freedom. I know
that you won't agree with me, but try to understand my position.
Only God allows a total free choice. But there are consequences for the
choice you make, God won't save you the consequences of your choice. We
are humans, and we have a human society, so we must try to establish a
more-less good society here. I know that liberalism is not a good choice
as a model for our society. I'm sorry for telling that - I know that you
are a convinced radical liberalist, and this will hurt you -, but this is
my opinion.
Slavey Tolev
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Alexander Yordanov wrote:
>
> > Communism and liberalism have nothing in common. Only mentaly retarded
> > creatures can mix those two terms together. Since when are the
> > communsits
> > liberalists?
>
> You are absolutely wrong! All communists are liberals. Communism is
> simply a more radical form of liberalism. Traditional liberalism has two
> offsprings: modern liberalism and socialism, and socialism has three more
> offspings: socilademocracy, fascism, and communism. So traditional
> libreralism is the grandfather of communism. Lenin is nothing more than
> the logical end of the French Revolution's philosophy.
I ma sorry to inform you but the wrong one in this case is you,
Mr. Marinov. You are obviously mixing two different definitions of
political schools. You are using the American term Liberal or also known
to the General Public as Heart-BLeeding Liberal which has nothing or very
little to do with the Classical term Liberal or also known as the
European term Liberal. The American equivalent of the European Liberal
will be Libertarian. What modern Liberals around the world stand for is
limited involvement of any form of government in peoples' lives. That
means free trade, lower taxes, no import-export quotas and so on. Another
thing that Liberals are known for is their support for social freedom.
That means that Liberals support peoples' choices to be whatever they
want to be: homosexual, have abortions and so on as long it is their will
and it does not hurt others directly.
Always up for more explanation. I mean that's what I pay tuition for.
Slaveycho
******************************************************************************
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Slavey Tolev, Jr.
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Willamette University
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' 900 State Street, F293
..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Salem, OR 97301, USA
(il).-'' (li).' ((!.-' (503) 370 - 6795
******************************************************************************
Dimitar Bojantchev
>On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
>> Alexander Yordanov wrote:
>>
>> > was that once you obtain an American passport, the world is yours in
>> > terms of free travel.
>>
>> requires entry visa for travel to many countries.
Such as...? The Kingdon of God, perhaps? Beyond the gates of heaven
where you're a frequent visitor, I guess? Then you must have
travelled more than me -- would you please inform me which are these
countries. I haven't been able to find one yet that requires more
documents for US citizens than for the other civilized members of the
Western Satanic community...
Regards,
Dimitar
P.S. Duhovno nechestivi, arogatno samouvereni samonaznachili se sudii
na chujdi sudbi, lujehristiyani, evangelisti na falshivi ucheniya,
natrapchiva sgan bez istinski moralni stoinosti ili dori precenka za
takiva -- tova sa vsichkite tezi evangelski vokalisti deto si nyamat i
ponyatie ot celomudrieto prisushto na edin hristiyanin... Yasni sa mi
shtom kato si pokajat nosa, mislyat si, che shte ni iznenadat s
neshtop novo -- abe, chojum, nali takiva zhalki TV evangelisti tuk gi
ima kolkoto shtesh... Haide sega da ni anatemosat i da se mahat, che
durven Gospod shte igrae...
Dimitar Bojantchev
Iwan, you broke all records for quick response -- even G-n Minchev at
his hottest times didn't compare with this. I wrote the original
article around 1:00 PM PST (Pacific Std. Time) and I saw your response
at around 3:30 PM PST... This has been between 11:00 PM - 1:30 AM
Bulgarian time. Man, that's something -- I almost thought I'm getting
an automated response unit on line...
No...
In article <320BAD...@mbox.digsys.bg>,
Ivan Marinov <max...@mbox.digsys.bg> wrote:
>Dimitar Bojantchev wrote:
>> Duhovno nechestivi, arogatno samouvereni samonaznachili se sudii
>> na chujdi sudbi, lujehristiyani, evangelisti na falshivi ucheniya,
>> natrapchiva sgan bez istinski moralni stoinosti ili dori precenka za
>> takiva -- tova sa vsichkite tezi evangelski vokalisti deto si nyamat i
>> ponyatie ot celomudrieto prisushto na edin hristiyanin... Yasni sa mi
>> shtom kato si pokajat nosa, mislyat si, che shte ni iznenadat s
>> neshtop novo -- abe, chojum, nali takiva zhalki TV evangelisti tuk gi
>> ima kolkoto shtesh... Haide sega da ni anatemosat i da se mahat, che
>> durven Gospod shte igrae...
>
>Az ne sym "ewangelist". Az sym prosto naj-obiknowen hristiqnin, kojto
>spodelq mnenieto si. Obicham da si izrazqwam mnenieto, towa e
>wsichko. Smqtam, che nqmam falshiw moral. Az sym greshnik, kojto se
Nie vsichki si izkazvame mnenieto... Nali mojem da minem i bez
sofistiki zasega?
No moeto momche, ako mnenieto ti sudurjashe pone malko poveche
hristiyansko celomudrie i ideina smirenost mojeshe da zaprilichash na
istinski hristiyanin. Prochem, ne e moya rabota da te suvetvam -- samo
shte ti kaja, che ako se opitvash da obyasnish na nyakoi, che ti si
hristiyanin, to sigurno suzdavash nai-loshiyat vuzmojen obraz na tazi
religiozna posledovatelnost. Vnikni malko kakvo oznachava tova da si
hristiyanin i da dokazvash (ne da pokazvash) moralnite stoinosti na
nashata vyara. A kogato puk si pozvolyavash da spomenavash semeinite
chlenove na nyakoi hora, a posle zaludo petnish imeto Gospodno, to ti
izvurshvash dvoen gryah, zashtoto se narichash i hristiyanin na
vsichkoto otgore...
>opitwa da prewyzmogne grehowete si, az ne sym poweche ot towa.
A taka, haide sega prevuzmogni grehovete si purvo -- gordosta (#1), a
posle shte ni pokajesh na nas po-greshnite s primeri... Putyat kum
slujbata Gospodna zapochva chrez "poslushanieto", tryabva da stanesh
poslushnik purvo, a posle da se izvisish i da dokajesh, che mojesh da
Go dostignesh... Kakuv e tozi tvoi 10 redov vladishki podpis? Kakvo e
tova grandomansnko ime -- MAX-imilian? Ti patriarh li shte stavash, na
Patriarch Maxim naslednik? Na teb bashta ne ti li e dal ime veche
vednaj, kakvi sa tezi poganski obichai deto sledvash? Kakva e tazi
vyara deto izpovyadvash? Zashto petnish imeto Mu?
Isus, edinorodniyat, beshe kazal da se pazim ot vulka v ovcha koja, ot
falshiviyat prorok, pratenik na Satanata! Toi shte ni se yavi, no nie
po delata mu shte go poznaem...
Spolai, no ne petni imeto Mu i ne go spomenavai zaludo.
Mitko
P.S. A otnosno pasportite...
>> I haven't been able to find one yet that requires more
>> documents for US citizens than for the other civilized members of the
>> Western Satanic community...
>
>Compare the Canadian and the US passport!
Yehh, it's so heart-breaking -- so, what in your imagination makes the
Canadian passport sooo much better? Is it because they'll charge mee
$20 entry visa at the customs gates of Malawi or Tansania or half a
dozen African states, while the Canadian guy will not need to pay? Or
in Turkey they'll charge me while the Canadian guy doesn't need to pay
(retaliation for the US super stringent visa requirements in Africa
and elsewhere). At the same time in the Czech republic the Canadian
guy needs a visa while I don't... There are many quirks of the law,
but with any of those Western passports travel is a breeze, including
within our dear Fatherland...
Then there are those God-forgotten states where going is not my idea
for fun... N. Korea, Vietnam, China, etc... Any state that requires to
me to have an official tourist reservation is a place I do not wanna
even touch. One cannot travel to Saudi-Arabia as a tourist, there is
no such visa, they do not issue such... In Egypt one needs to register
with the police within 7 days. In Bulgaria one needs to have a
stampted statistical card -- can you believe that shit...
But if you're trying to establish that with a Canadian passport it's
much different to travel then I think that's a joke. I'll tell you --
out of all passports, the US one is by far the most protected one from
a legal standpoint, cause they're far more concerned about its
government. A couple of years ago I travelled extensively throughout
S. America. A Canadian guy I was with got all kinds of hassle for the
purpose of dispensing some cash, while me waving the US passport got
me through with considerably more respect... If an US person gets
taken as a hostage or for ransom then whole goddam world learns about
it and it becomes a major issue. The same applies to a much lesser
extent to the other passports -- Canadian, German, etc... Now, at the
same time there is no use to go into places where there are terrorist
activities, because then it doesn't matter whether you're a US or
Canadian passport holder... But those are not places I'm planning to
visit anytime soon.
Anyway, that's a side issue...
Alexander Yordanov
On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:
> Alexander Yordanov wrote:
>
> > Besides, Siya's point
> > was that once you obtain an American passport, the world is yours in
> > terms of free travel.
>
> This is not true. The US passport is not a very good passport, because it
> requires entry visa for travel to many countries.
It is still better than a Bulgarian passport. And this is what the point is.
Alex
Ivan Marinov
Alexander Yordanov wrote:
> > > Besides, Siya's point
> > > was that once you obtain an American passport, the world is yours
> > > in
> > > terms of free travel.
> > This is not true. The US passport is not a very good passport,
> > because it
> > requires entry visa for travel to many countries.
> It is still better than a Bulgarian passport. And this is what the
> point is.
Almost every passport is better than the Bulgarian. But this is not the
issue here. The issue was that the US passport is not a "world passport".
For example a Canadian passport is much better than an US passport, as it
gives visa free travel to almost all countries in America, Europe and
Asia.
Ivan Marinov
Dimitar Bojantchev wrote:
> I haven't been able to find one yet that requires more
> documents for US citizens than for the other civilized members of the
> Western Satanic community...
Compare the Canadian and the US passport!
> Duhovno nechestivi, arogatno samouvereni samonaznachili se sudii
> na chujdi sudbi, lujehristiyani, evangelisti na falshivi ucheniya,
> natrapchiva sgan bez istinski moralni stoinosti ili dori precenka za
> takiva -- tova sa vsichkite tezi evangelski vokalisti deto si nyamat i
> ponyatie ot celomudrieto prisushto na edin hristiyanin... Yasni sa mi
> shtom kato si pokajat nosa, mislyat si, che shte ni iznenadat s
> neshtop novo -- abe, chojum, nali takiva zhalki TV evangelisti tuk gi
> ima kolkoto shtesh... Haide sega da ni anatemosat i da se mahat, che
> durven Gospod shte igrae...
Az ne sym "ewangelist". Az sym prosto naj-obiknowen hristiqnin, kojto
spodelq mnenieto si. Obicham da si izrazqwam mnenieto, towa e
wsichko. Smqtam, che nqmam falshiw moral. Az sym greshnik, kojto se
opitwa da prewyzmogne grehowete si, az ne sym poweche ot towa.
Hajde edin wic za razwedrqwane:
---
Q: How many TV evangelists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One. But for the message of hope to continue to go forth, send in your
donation today.
---
Pozdrawi,
Iwan - kojto e greshnik
Ivan Marinov
dim...@best.com (Dimitar Bojantchev) wrote:
>Iwan, you broke all records for quick response -- even G-n Minchev at
>his hottest times didn't compare with this. I wrote the original
>article around 1:00 PM PST (Pacific Std. Time) and I saw your response
>at around 3:30 PM PST... This has been between 11:00 PM - 1:30 AM
>Bulgarian time. Man, that's something -- I almost thought I'm getting
>an automated response unit on line...
I'm sure you didn't use Internet in Bulgaria. The best time for
connection in Bulgaria is after
12:00 AM. I have an analogue phone line, and I cannot reach really quick
speed before this
hour. And that day (August 8) was my birthday... :-)
>A taka, haide sega prevuzmogni grehovete si purvo -- gordosta (#1), a
>posle shte ni pokajesh na nas po-greshnite s primeri... Putyat kum
>slujbata Gospodna zapochva chrez "poslushanieto", tryabva da stanesh
>poslushnik purvo, a posle da se izvisish i da dokajesh, che mojesh da
>Go dostignesh...
>Kakuv e tozi tvoi 10 redov vladishki podpis?
>Kakvo e
>tova grandomansnko ime -- MAX-imilian? Ti patriarh li shte stavash, na
>Patriarch Maxim naslednik? Na teb bashta ne ti li e dal ime veche
>vednaj, kakvi sa tezi poganski obichai deto sledvash? Kakva e tazi
>vyara deto izpovyadvash? Zashto petnish imeto Mu?
Mersi za sywetite, no i az super dobre znam tezi neshta. No inache mersi.
No mi kazhi neshto
molq te. ZAshto se poluchawa taka, che kogato hristiqnin se opita da
izrazi mnenie, koeto ne se
wyzpriema ot mnozinstwoto, wednaga pochwat wyprosite "ti zashto ne si
kato Isus, ti zashto ne si
sywyrshen?". Izwinqwaj, no towa mi se struwa nechestno. Hristiqninyt e
swoboden chowek, i toj
ima pylnoto prawo da si izkazwa mnenieto. Kak shte ima hristiqnsko
wliqnie w zemnite dela, ako
wsichkite chakat da stanat "sywyrsheni"? Togawa nqma da ima izobshto
hristiqni w politikata i
filosofiqta, zashtoto NQMA sysyrsheni hristiqni na sweta. Oswen towa,
zabelezhi, che az samo
izkazwam mnenie, no ne osyzhdam nikogo.
Inache wqrno e, che podpisyt e malko dylgichyk, no ne wizhdam nishto
antibozhestweno w nego.
Imeto Maximilian nqma nikakwa wryzka s Patriarha. Imeto Maximilian
Valenski e izmisleno predi
mnogo, mnogo godini. Tuk w Sofiq dazhe imam registrirana firma s towa
ime. A syshto taka ne
wizhdam nishto osyditelno w towa da izpolzwash powechko imena. Az po
princip bqh neshto
kato pisatel (za syzhalenie nebylgarski), i prosto obichah da si imam
powche imena. Ne razbiram
kyde wizhdash tuk petno wyrhu imeto ne Boga.
>Isus, edinorodniyat, beshe kazal da se pazim ot vulka v ovcha koja, ot
>falshiviyat prorok, pratenik na Satanata! Toi shte ni se yavi, no nie
>po delata mu shte go poznaem...
Az ne sym nikakyw prorok. Ne sym i otdelna nowa religiq. Az sym
naj-obiknowen wqrwasht
hristiqnin, nishto poweche.
>Spolai, no ne petni imeto Mu i ne go spomenavai zaludo.
Spomenawam go rqdko.
>I'll tell you --
>out of all passports, the US one is by far the most protected one from
>a legal standpoint, cause they're far more concerned about its
>government.
I wouldn't like to travel with a US passport. The US passport is a big
risk, as terrorists always kill
first the Israelis, then the Americans...
Bernd Dworniczak
Thanx God, there was Siya Stoyanova, to show me what a loser I am.
Thank u Siya, for expressing the feelings of "all women" who are
"scared" to post on scb. I'm not gonna tell ya, who used to talk from
the name of a community [men, women, folk, working class]. Guess u still
have some good memories 'bout it in ur current happiness (teleshki
vuztorg). BTW, note that "mental" is used as a category for describing
somebody's intellectual abilities as well as for a psychic condition.
Learn finally some English, Siya, please, except the cheap meditation
programs u watch on TV! U're more than 4 yrs. in the states for God's
sake!
-tell ya a secret: i just love to stir the shit of an efeminated 'xcuse
for an existence, such as urself. and stay cool, ur respect is the last
thing i need in this world!
Pazi Boje, slyapo da progleda!
Alexander Yordanov
On 11 Aug 1996, Bernd Dworniczak wrote:
> Thanx God, there was Siya Stoyanova, to show me what a loser I am.
> Thank u Siya, for expressing the feelings of "all women" who are
> "scared" to post on scb. I'm not gonna tell ya, who used to talk from
> the name of a community [men, women, folk, working class]. Guess u still
> have some good memories 'bout it in ur current happiness (teleshki
> vuztorg). BTW, note that "mental" is used as a category for describing
> somebody's intellectual abilities as well as for a psychic condition.
> Learn finally some English, Siya, please, except the cheap meditation
> programs u watch on TV! U're more than 4 yrs. in the states for God's
> sake!
>
> -tell ya a secret: i just love to stir the shit of an efeminated 'xcuse
> for an existence, such as urself. and stay cool, ur respect is the last
> thing i need in this world!
>
>
> Pazi Boje, slyapo da progleda!
So far Siya is the only Bulgarian woman who dares to express her opinion in
s.c.b. freely - and now another dark Balkan debil proves that spiritual
Bulgaria belongs to the Middle East where women are supposed to keep their
mouths shut, stay in the corner and veil their faces, perhaps?
The only attention-deserving part of your post is the last sentence - an
old Bulgarian saying - and I suggest that you read it carefully and think
about it over and over - that saying describes *your* state of mind.
Alex
who judges people by their passions and feelings and not the number of
their diplomas
Chugun2
BULGARSKI BALKANSKI BOKLUTZI
Chugun2
BULGARSKI BALKANSKI BOKLUTZI -
V takava kategoria se nameri siya stoianovata, sigurno edna pet parichna
kurva koyato e doshla v shtatite da prodava vsichko tova, koeto misli, che
ima. Ot neinite e mail, tova e ochevidno - zhena ot ulitzite na sofia,
tursi sudbata i, v shtatite.
HEKA DA CE 3ABbPHA B PODUHATA , , U DA CE MAXHE OT AMEPUKA.
Chugun2
BALKANSKI BULGARSKI BOKLUTZI
V takava kategoriya se nameri tazi Siya Stoyanova, sigurno edna pet
parichna kurva ot ulitizite na sofia, kakto izglejda ot neinite e mail.
Takivi litza amerika ne tryabva da ima, HEKA DA CE 3ABbPHA B PODUHATA, CbC
KOMYHUCTUTE, I TE3U TYK, U OHE3U TAM.
Alexander Yordanov
A be, sto ne vzemesh da se vrazumish? Nameri si nyakakvo hobby za
izrazhodvane na izlishnata energiya. I izbyagvai da yadesh sladko.
Alex
Bernd Dworniczak
Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> scribbled:
>So far Siya is the only Bulgarian woman who dares to express her opinion in
>s.c.b. freely
yeah, let's make her a hero of the liberal thought!
- and now another dark Balkan debil proves that spiritual
>Bulgaria belongs to the Middle East where women are supposed to keep their
>mouths shut, stay in the corner and veil their faces, perhaps?
you, PC (politically correct) idiot, did i even just for a second imply that with a thought or a sentence? How many thousand times d=
o i have to explain, that the only thing i have agst. PC idiots like urself and some other "users" is the inability or rather the ab=
ility to turn everything into a political issue? Just look at urself: u're so pathetic!
>The only attention-deserving part of your post is the last sentence - an
>old Bulgarian saying - and I suggest that you read it carefully and think
>about it over and over - that saying describes *your* state of mind.
yes. u're definitely right. az sum veche proglednal, no za razlika ot teb nikoga ne sum bil slyap. Thanx God i did not let myself to=
be blinded by any liberal, social or sociopatic ideas, or the PC s..t that u Alex seem to like so much. just don't forget, please t=
hat the coin has two sides and an edge!
>Alex
maybe Alexei or Alexander?
>who judges people by their passions and feelings and not the number of
>their diplomas
kgb*cia 4ever
a metaphoric expressioon of NOT judging the people but reasoning on their reasoning.
Alexander Yordanov
On 13 Aug 1996, Bernd Dworniczak wrote:
> Alexander Yordanov <ya...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> scribbled:
>
> >So far Siya is the only Bulgarian woman who dares to express her opinion in
> >s.c.b. freely
>
> yeah, let's make her a hero of the liberal thought!
You don't like the fact that she stood up against the Bulgarian Macho
Society, do you?
>
> - and now another dark Balkan debil proves that spiritual
> >Bulgaria belongs to the Middle East where women are supposed to keep their
> >mouths shut, stay in the corner and veil their faces, perhaps?
>
> you, PC (politically correct) idiot, did i even just for a second imply
> that with a thought or a sentence? How many thousand times do i have
> to explain, that the only thing i have agst. PC idiots like urself
> and some other "users" is the inability or rather the ability
> to turn everything into a political issue? Just look at urself: u're so
> pathetic!
Me - politically correct person? Are you kidding? :-)))) No, I am not.
When I think that someone is an idiot, I call him an idiot and not
"mentally challenged", as a politically correct person would do.
Who is turning everything into a political issue? I am not a politician.
Lord, no! I am just expressing my views. Why do my views make you loose
your nerves?
And what's so wrong with being pathetic?
> >The only attention-deserving part of your post is the last sentence - an
> >old Bulgarian saying - and I suggest that you read it carefully and think
> >about it over and over - that saying describes *your* state of mind.
>
> yes. u're definitely right. az sum veche proglednal, no za razlika ot teb
> nikoga ne sum bil slyap. Thanx God i did not let myself to be blinded by
> any
> liberal, social or sociopatic ideas, or the PC s..t that u Alex seem to
> like
> so much. just don't forget, please that the coin has two sides and an
> edge!
As I told you, I am not the most politically correct person in the world (
read some of my posts, :-))) ) but I believe that PC is not such a bad
thing after all. Just think - if the Bulgarian parliament were more PC
than they are, they wouldn't have spent the last seven year cursing and
calling each other with all possible epithets, but would have done some
real work.
Unfortunatelly, most Third World Suckers do not believe in PC and waste
their energy in trying to figure out the ultimate truth, without realizing
that there is no ultimate truth. Evereybody knows *a truth* for
him/herself.
And PC is exactly the lubricant that makes a system run faster, with less
frictions and no excessive heat.
And it is the unwillingness of the Third World Suckers to use that
lubricant
which will help them stay Suckers.
>
> >Alex
>
> maybe Alexei or Alexander?
No. Just Alex. Perhaps I am the one who knows better how I want to be
called?