Brass Monkey Weather ?
Stuart Lea
Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
bothered with welding rods ?
Stuart.
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Stuart Lea University of Manchester Institute
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David Barker-Plummer
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JEHS> From: st...@warwick.ac.uk (J E H Shaw)
JEHS> Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
JEHS> Date: 1 Nov 91 09:31:57 GMT
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JEHS> In article <1991Oct31.1...@cns.umist.ac.uk> s...@cns.umist.ac.uk (Stuart Lea) writes:
>Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
>Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
>bothered with welding rods ?
>
JEHS> The full expression is: `cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey'.
JEHS> One (surprising) explanation is that the trolley used to carry
JEHS> cannonballs around His Majesty's Ships were called `brass
JEHS> monkeys'. When the weather grew sufficiently cold, the
JEHS> different rates of expansion of brass and of lead caused the
JEHS> pyramid of cannonballs to slip suddenly, `and the balls came
JEHS> tumbling down'.
JEHS> ObDisclaimer: I don't know if this explanation comes from the
JEHS> Encyclopaedia Britannica or from `My Word'.
Well, this is almost how the story came down to me, although I too
cannot cite a reference. I learned that the expression was originally
"cold enought to freeze the balls ON a brass monkey". In this
derivation, the cannonballs do not slip, rather they freeze onto the
trolley.
-- Dave
Bruce Hoover,Armstrong
> Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
> Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
> bothered with welding rods ?
>
I don't know anything about welding rods, but the phrase I have heard
is:
"Cold as the balls on a brass monkey"
maybe this is an Americanism, but it would seem to be related.
Another popular saying is "Cold as a witch's tit in December"
Bruce Hoover
Geoff Miller
>Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
>Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
>bothered with welding rods ?
The original phrase is "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey."
Geoff Miller (g...@cc.adfa.oz.au) | Be wary of strong drink. It may
Computer Centre | make you shoot at tax collectors -
Australian Defence Force Academy | and miss. (Robert Heinlein)
JE Dixon
>From article <1991Oct31.1...@cns.umist.ac.uk>, by s...@cns.umist.ac.uk (Stuart Lea):
>> Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
>> Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
>> bothered with welding rods ?
>>
>"Cold as the balls on a brass monkey"
I always though it was -
"Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey'.
As far as I know . .
The monkeyes refered to are the powder monkeys on old warships who used
to load the cannons with gunpowder ( yes that old ). And the balls
refered to are thus probably cannon balls. I'll ask my Grandad, he's
full of this stuff.
--
James Dixon
Southampton University
mail jed...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
J E H Shaw
>Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
>bothered with welding rods ?
>
One (surprising) explanation is that the trolley used to carry cannonballs
around His Majesty's Ships were called `brass monkeys'. When the weather
grew sufficiently cold, the different rates of expansion of brass and of
lead caused the pyramid of cannonballs to slip suddenly, `and the balls
came tumbling down'.
ObDisclaimer: I don't know if this explanation comes from the Encyclopaedia
Britannica or from `My Word'.
-- Ewart Shaw
--
J.E.H.Shaw, Department of Statistics, | JANET: st...@uk.ac.warwick.csv
University of Warwick, | BITNET: strgh%uk.ac.warwick.csv@UKACRL
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Steve Lord
In article <ghm.688964686@ccadfa>, g...@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
> The original phrase is "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey."
I always thought it was "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey."
^^^
Which is pretty chilly in my book :-)
Steve Lord
Bob Gray
>around His Majesty's Ships were called `brass monkeys'. When the weather
>grew sufficiently cold, the different rates of expansion of brass and of
>lead caused the pyramid of cannonballs to slip suddenly, `and the balls
>came tumbling down'.
Almost.
The full explanation I heard was this.
The young boys who looked after the gunpowder for cannons
were refered to as "powder monkeys".
When ready cased amunition was introduced, the shell cases
holding the powder were known as brass monkeys.
During the Crimean war, the weather got so cold at times
that the differential contraction between the lead and the
brass in the shell would cause the brass to fracture, and
the lead projectile would become detached.
Bob.
Rob Stewart
s...@cns.umist.ac.uk (Stuart Lea) asked
> Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
> Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
> bothered with welding rods ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
g...@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) replied:
> The original phrase is "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey."
----------------------------------------------------------^^------------
That's "Cold enough to freeze the balls *off* a brass monkey."
I've no idea what Stuart Lea mean by the reference to welding rods, but
the explanation of Brass Monkey Weather I've heard is as follows:
The term comes from the British Navy, in the days when men where
men, ships had sails, and fighting ships had cannons. Some of the
cannon balls were carried on deck ready for immediate use. The battle
plan involved your cannon balls thundering around the enemy ships,
doing them large amounts of damage. So you didn't want your cannon
balls rolling around your gun decks, smashing things, maiming the
hand-press-ganged crew, and generally being bloody difficult to load
into your cannon.
So the balls were placed in a retaining device called a Brass
Monkey. I don't know their exact specification, but I think they were
triangles of brass, or possibly they were rectangular. One or more
balls would be stacked inside, prevented from rolling around (something
like the triangle used to set up pool balls for the break). In order to
get at the balls quickly, they sat more on the Monkey than in it.
In very cold conditions, the brass would contract enough to cause
the balls to roll off. I don't know if this was due to the different
thermal properties of brass and iron, the different shapes of the
monkey and it's balls, or a combination of the two. Anyway, this gave
rise to the phrase "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a Brass
Monkey", which is sometimes rephrased as "It's Brass Monkey Weather".
Then again this could just be a load of balls.
Bob "No honestly, would I lie to you?" Stewart.
--
Bob Stewart. <ro...@tcom.stc.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!robs
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB.
Phone : +44 81 945 2940 or +44 81 945 4000 x2940
IO1...@maine.maine.edu
>
>s...@cns.umist.ac.uk (Stuart Lea) writes:
>
>>Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
>>Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
>>bothered with welding rods ?
>
>The original phrase is "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey."
>
>Geoff Miller (g...@cc.adfa.oz.au) | Be wary of strong drink. It may
>Computer Centre | make you shoot at tax collectors -
on the bridge of a ship. I think--this is very qualified--that it is
some kind of pivot and suspension device which when frozen ceases to
function. Anyone know any sailors? :-)
Mike Oliver
>The original phrase is "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey."
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .^^ "off", not "of".
(This isn't supposed to be a spelling/grammar flame, but that typo
really does alter the meaning of the phrase.)
Hence the expression that prompted the original query in this thread.
Something along the lines of "It's so cold there's a brass monkey out
there looking for a welder."
Cheers, Mike.
mol...@pyramid.com
{allegra,decwrl,hplabs,munnari,sun,utai,uunet}!pyramid!moliver
graeme rae
|> Where does the expression to describe very cold weather as
|> Brass Monkey Weather come from ? And why should anyone be
|> bothered with welding rods ?
|>
|>
|> Stuart.
In days of old, cannonballs were stored in piles on the decks
of ships. To stop the pile falling apart, the bottom layer sat in a
brass triangle mounted on the deck. This triangle was known as a "
brass monkey" (why is that? - please followup) On particularly cold
days the triangle would contract and all the cannonballs would fall off
hence "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"
--
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====== ======= //===== gra...@transquest.oe.fau.edu (Graeme Rae)
// // // // // (407) 367-3804
//====// //====// //=== Dept of Ocean Eng. Florida Atlantic Univ.
// \\ // // // "May your joys be as deep as the ocean,
// \\// // //===== and your troubles as light as its foam"
Mike Gingell
>
> In days of old, cannonballs were stored in piles on the decks
>of ships. To stop the pile falling apart, the bottom layer sat in a
>brass triangle mounted on the deck. This triangle was known as a "
>brass monkey" (why is that? - please followup) On particularly cold
>days the triangle would contract and all the cannonballs would fall off
>
>hence "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"
>
You guys are spoiling all my illusions. For years I have thought of it
much more literally .... just imagine a brass statue of a monkey standing
outside in the cold ..... now THATS BLOODY COLD when they start dropping
off!!!!!
--
Mike Gingell, mike%hyp...@mcnc.org Raleigh, NC USA
Running FSUUCP V1.2 on an MSDOS machine ... but ..... TRS80s live forever!
Bob Gray
[illusion spoiler deleted]
>You guys are spoiling all my illusions. For years I have thought of it
>much more literally .... just imagine a brass statue of a monkey standing
>outside in the cold ..... now THATS BLOODY COLD when they start dropping
>off!!!!!
Brass statues, nothing.
People here prefer to make references to whimpering simians
looking for welding equipment.
Bob.